Morbid - Episode 355: Kelly Cochran AKA "The Devil Woman of Michigan"

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

When Chris Regan went missing and his car was found abandoned at a local park and ride, many people were concerned. Chris was supposed to be moving from Michigan to North Carolina with his son, a move that he was over the moon about, but then all of the sudden everyone in Chris's life just stopped hearing from him. When his car was searched the detectives would find directions written down that led Chris to the last place he would ever go: Kelly Cochran's home.Where Monters Hide:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851TBNFD/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wundery pod or text wundery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. You can host the best backyard barbecue. When you find a professional on Angie to make your backyard the best around. Connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Inside to outside, repairs to renovations. Get started on the Angie app or visit Angie.com today. You can do this when you Angie that. Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Drew. Oh my God.

People drew us in the house. What's good? In the pod lab, that smells so delicious because of you. A. Oh, and this is Mordbid. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited.

I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited.

I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. like pumpkin, pecan, and waffles, frickin' all the pumpkin. Yeah, bathroom bodyworks. I know we were talking about it the other day on that episode

and we were like, true into bathroom bodyworks and it is bathroom bodyworks, right? Yeah. I think we might have said bad bath and beyond on the episode because somebody DMed me on Instagram and was like, wait, what's the word, did you mean? Yeah, I went into bathroom bodyworks

and they were very confused as to why I was in that. I clearly like didn't know what I was looking for. I just asked for the false stuff. Where's the false stuff? My name's Drew. I have a weird girlfriend. She has a weird sister. Hit me with your false stuff. I love it. No it smells really good in here. Speaking of things that I said the wrong way actually, I'm pretty sure a couple weeks ago I said that I got my eyelashes laminated and before everybody comes for me or before you go to your lash person and ask if you can get your lashes laminated, the answer's no. I got my eyebrows laminated. Yeah, that's good to say. That's what it was. But yeah, anyways, so that's a quick little correction.

So yeah, Drew's gonna be on this episode because Elena and her little fan-fam around just a quick little vacay, but don't worry, she will be back, actually, well technically you'll feel like she's back on Wednesday because we got to do this really cool collab episode that's coming on on Wednesday. And then I think Drew's probably gonna join me

one more time for Listener Tales. And Alina will be officially back for our Monday episode. A. I don't know, I think that's what's going on, but you all know that I'm lost at all time, so. And I'm always just in the pod lamp, so. Yeah, and whenever we need anybody, we're just like, oh, Drew's right there, perfect.

Okay, so yeah, I thought that I was gonna be telling Alina this story, so definitely hold on to your butt. Yeah, I'm a little nervous for anyone that doesn't know. I'm not a big true crime person, but I do like to be on this podcast, so I kind of set myself up for it. I'm not a true crime lover, but I do love this true crime podcast that you host. Yeah, it's gonna be a lot. I think you were in the living room last week when I was watching the documentary. Oh yes. Yeah.

So I'm gonna be talking about Kelly Cochran today. She's also known as the Devil Woman of Michigan. Oh, so there's that. And the documentary that you, I think you like were popping in and out of the house while I was watching it. Yeah. You didn't get the full extent, but you guys should definitely check it out. It's on investigation discovery.

So if you have discovery plus, check it out. I think it's, see, there's three parts or four parts I can't remember, but it's called Dead North. Okay. And then I also read a book that's called Where Monsters Hide. And that was by MW, nope, it was by M William Phelps. Cool. All right, so you're ready to start?

Yeah. You say this as a Michigan? I did, yeah. So it's in Michigan and in Indiana. Okay, hey Caleb. All right, so in October of 2014, when Chris Regan was reported missing by his ex-girlfriend, Tariot Donald, nobody

really expected this like tangled mess of spider webs and scary shit and just horrific overall stuff. You see spider webs? Yeah, because they're like yucky. Oh, okay. Just like a trail of like, yeah. So there's no actual like spider web storyline? No.

Okay. I mean like maybe they're the spider webs in their house. Oh, okay. Got it. Don't hold on to every last fight. I'm kidding. But no, it was just going to be uncovering a whole bunch of nasty craziness while they were trying to find him.

So around the time that Chris was reported missing, he actually was really supposed to be starting over. He and his son were planning to move to Asheville, North Carolina together. And honestly, it would be like the perfect place for the two of them because they both absolutely loved the outdoors and they were already planning all kinds of adventures together and they were just like really stoked to move out there together. Now, Chris was a classic outdoorsman while he was actually serving as master sergeant in the Air Force. He was on the Air Force road racing team as a category two cyclist racer. And I didn't know what that meant.

So I looked it up. So I'll let you know in like two seconds. Okay. He loved riding bikes and he was really good at it. And anybody in that high of a category for racing, like a category two, has to consistently place high in the races that they compete in, which he was doing.

Okay. He had trophies from all around the world, and he also loved being on the water, he loved scuba diving, kayaking, he had his own kayak. From the sounds of it, like literally any outdoor activity would have been of interest to him.

Yeah. So just like us. Oh yeah, totally. Outdoors. No. No, imagine us doing it, trying to ride a bike would just be something. I used to be super outdoorsy when I was younger.

And then I got older and I just. You got it all out of your system. Yeah, truly. Like the thought of going on a hike, I cannot. I actually invited somebody on a hike. One of my friends, I, like the thought of going on a hike, like I cannot. I actually invited somebody on a hike. One of my friends, I was like, oh, do you want to get together next week and go on a hike?

And then I looked at the text like, bitch, who are you? Like, why are you inviting people on hikes? But I'm trying to get into this business life. I just sent Alina and John, because we're there going on vacation, I'm very familiar with. so I sent them this like cool Like hike to go on and I'm like he have fun

But Chris would have loved that recommendation So once he retired from the Air Force after serving 20 years He got a job at a factory where they made all the parts that would be used on Navy ships His particular role at that factory. He was team leader. So he would oversee any major project and his co-workers really looked up to him. They had a lot of respect for him. And even like the higher-ups who were higher than him in the company, they loved him too. They all said that he was incredibly organized that he paid attention to detail. He was always on time showing up for work at 5am on the

dot and he was just always in a good mood. Okay. So Chris's time at the company though obviously was coming to an end because he was moving with his son. In fact, he had already got a job lined up in North Carolina and right around the time he disappeared, he was actually supposed to be heading into North Carolina, heading out there to do a routine drug test before he was like, officially hired, but he pretty much had the job. Yeah. Now, Kristen and DoDrug, so there was nothing to worry about there. But what was worrisome was that he wasn't answering any texts or calls from the son

that he was moving with, or from his ex-girlfriend Terry that he was still friends with. Now, things were especially troubling to Terry when she got a call from one of Chris' co-workers at the factory. This co-worker wanted Terry to know that Chris' car was parked at the Bates Park and Ride, and it had been there for a while. Now, Chris drove a 2013 Hyundai Genesis that he absolutely adored.

Like everybody said, he loves that car. Those are a nice car. Yeah, I was going to say that. True second last car said, he loves that car. Those are nice cars. Yeah, I was gonna say that. True second love cars. I would love that car too. I'm Google to picture of it. And she's pretty slick. Yeah.

So Terry was more than freaked out because she was like, this car has been parked there multiple days in a row and there's no sign of him coming or going and the code was like, no, like it's been in the same spot. So when she first contacted the police, they were actually a little bit suspicious of Terry herself.

They were worried that, you know, maybe she's some kind of jolted lover, she's jealous that he's moving, la, la, la, whatever. But the more and more that they started talking to her, they were like, no, like she's definitely distraught, like she very much loves him. And actually, it was the police chief Laura Farzo who plays like, obviously she's the police chief, but she plays a major part

in this case. And she said that when she was talking to Terry, she was like, there was just something in her eye that wouldn't have been there if she had been involved in this. Okay. So they actually, oops, I just hit my microphone. Sorry. They actually met when Terry was working as a teacher in Iron River Michigan and Chris was actually still in the Air Force. But he decided to move out there while they were dating. I think it was when he was already retired from the Air Force. Not only to enjoy a lot of the outdoor activities

that Iron River Michigan can provide, but obviously also to be closer to Terry. But things in their relationship started to sour when Terry suspected that Chris might be seeing another woman behind her back. Oh, never good. Never good. So unfortunately, Terry suspicion did turn out to be true. Chris was having an affair. And he was having an affair with a married woman that he worked with, Kelly Cochran, also known as the Devil Woman of Michigan. That freaks me out and I'm scared to find out.

You should be. So it was something that he tried to keep very under the radar this affair. And when people started talking at work, like Chris knew that Kelly maybe had let onto something. And he got upset with her knowing full well that she probably validated these people's questions. And in my personal opinion,

I feel like he wanted to keep a fair with Kelly private for many reasons. But I think the biggest two, that at least I can think of, or number one, he valued his job, and he was very well respected at his job. So he didn't want to lose it, or have his reputation tarnished by some taudry affair. And I also think that he was worried about being judged

because, and think the way that we input it is just that he and Kelly were from two different walks of life. Many would describe Kelly as, quote unquote, rough around the edges. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American scandal.

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plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Go to simplysafe.com slash morbid. So there were other factors too. There was a 20-year-age difference between the two of them. And of course the fact he was already seeing somebody. Was he older? He was older, yes. But obviously, I'm sure you know as well as I do, work words spreads quickly in a work

environment, and pretty much everyone was aware that at least something was going on between the two of them. So Kelly wasn't from the area. She had actually moved pretty recently to Iron River Michigan in February of 2014 with her husband Jason. Now she and Jason had known each other their entire lives. They actually grew up next to each other

in Merrillville, Indiana. Kelly, say it again. Imagine that, like growing up next to someone and then like there your husband. I know that would be crazy. And the funny thing is that like even Imagine that, like, growing up next to someone and then, like, there your husband. I know, that would be crazy. And the funny thing is that, like, even her mom was like, I never suspected that the two of them would have gotten together.

Yeah, that's crazy. It kinda seems like everybody was a bit surprised when they decided to start going out. Like, they were friendly, but they were, it seemed, in my opinion, like, they were more just friends because their friends were friends and, like, happenstance that they live next door to each other. Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, I don't know. So Kelly was the oldest of three kids and she gave her parents, her parents were Tim and Melanie Gabboyan. She gave them a lot of hell while she was growing up. She started using drugs at a really young age. She would run away from home at least on two occasions. She actually at one point had to be placed in a girl's home while she was a teenager because her parents just couldn't get her to stop

doing drugs, sneaking out, partying, all of the above. And then when she was 18, she was kicked out of the home because she wasn't following any of the rules there either. But then she kind of just started getting her shit together and decided that she wanted to go to college. Okay. I'm not sure if she was still using drugs, but she was like, together and decided that she wanted to go to college. Okay. I'm not sure if she was still using drugs, but she was like, you know what, I want to go to college. Now, it turned out that her neighbor Jason wanted to go to the same university that she did, Purdue. And around that same time, she was actually spending more and more of her free time with

Jason. I think the other thing was that it was just like, convenient. You know, like you're both going to the same school. You both love next order each other. You and I know too, because when you're all your friends leave for college, I think you start to cling on to people more than you usually would. Oh, totally.

Like, yeah. I was going to share a story and then I was like, probably won't. I was like, I'm actually sitting here with my fiance. Yeah, I know. I was just thinking of types where, like, I'm actually sitting here with my fjords. Yeah, I know. I was just thinking of like types where like when I dropped out of college, just suddenly on a Tuesday afternoon and got home. Related home. Related home.

And like no one was there except for like a couple of my friends and you just kind of like all like flock together. Yeah, totally. And then you like, you kind of date people, and I like you probably wouldn't date if they were the circumstance. Yeah. So yeah, whatever they start dating.

You know, maybe they also thought each other was cute and like they enjoyed their time with each other. Because the thing is, like I said, they'd always hung out while they were growing up, but it was usually with groups of people. And then as they got older, it was a little more one-on-one, and it got more romantic as the relationship developed. But while Kelly was at Purdue, she studied psychology,

sociology, and forensics, interestingly enough. Yeah. Yeah. So sorry, that's like an interesting, do those three go together? Oh, totally. Yeah, psychology, sociology, and forensics. What's sociology? Sociology, I mean, don't quote me because we both dropped out of college, but sociology, I think, is like, how the world works. Okay. And like how people interact with one another. Okay. Like the study of being social.

Okay. No one come after us, because we don't know. I'm not teaching your college class until it's a true crime podcast. So eventually Jason decides to propose. And he does so on Kelly's birthday, which was June 5th. She's a Gemini. That's all I'm going to say about that. Right.

Yeah. I know them well. Yeah. Sorry. Whenever I hear that Lizzo song, it's like, who would put up with your Gemini shit like I do. I'm always like, thanks Drew. So they got married and the Methodist Church in 2002. And after college, they opened up a business together right after they got married. So right after college and right after they got married,

they would service people swimming pools. That was their business. But pretty much right after they were married, Kelly's parents kind of noticed a change in Jason. They said that he wasn't as talkative as he used to be. He and Kelly were arguing more and more than they had in the past. They said they didn't see anything physical ever go down between them while they were living at the house. But they definitely were arguing a lot and things got so uncomfortable.

And especially the shift in Jason's personality kind of alarmed Kelly's father. And he was like, I don't think you guys should live here anymore. so uncomfortable and especially the shift in Jason's personality kind of alarmed Kelly's father. And he was like, I don't think you guys should live here anymore. Like I think you guys should get your own place. Like you got to get out of here. Yeah. So they do. And they go out on their own, their company's doing pretty well, but about 10 years into it, Jason's body gives out. His back can't handle the stress anymore. Okay. He's having a really bad back pain. He wasn't able to get worked on like he had in the years previous and then that started taking a toll on his mental health. And then things got worse because his pain reached the point where let's just say he

was no longer able to have a sexual relationship with Kelly or anybody for that matter. Okay. Because of the pain. Yeah. So things have gotten pretty bad overall and they decided around 2013 that they needed a change and that's when they decided to move out to Iron River. They later claimed that part of the reason they moved back was that pot had been legalized in Michigan and it was something that would help with Jason's back pain.

But what didn't help was Kelly having an affair. So they'll do it. They'll do it. So back to Terry. Like I said, Terry had her suspicions when she was with Chris, and I was part of the reason why they had decided to call it quits.

But right around the time that he disappeared, the two of them actually seemed to patch things up. And Terry said to the police, she had spoken with Chris recently, and that they were even planning to spend Thanksgiving together, but that all communication between them ceased out of nowhere on October 14th. Now, ultimately, detectives were able to search Chris's home and car, and they did so without

a warrant because of the community caretaker exception. That's part of the Fourth Amendment. Basically, if there's any evidence like an abandoned car that a person might be in distress or in need of assistance, then law enforcement can enter the vehicle or the home of the person without a warrant. Okay. Just like, basically, if they're worried that you're in, like, dire straits, that they can hop in and help you.

Okay. So when Chris's apartment was searched, Terry was there, and she was absolutely shocked at the state that the apartment was in. I said earlier, Chris was known as a very organized person. And people would say that all his teas were crossed, all his eyes were dotted, but the apartment was like the antithesis of who Chris was said to be. His laptop was left on his desk completely open and there were notes that he was taking right next to it just like right on the top of the counter. He would have never left those out. There were cabinets that were just left open next to it, just like right on the top of the counter. He would have never left those out.

There were cabinets that were just left open, dirty dishes all over the place that were from like takeout. And there were things just lying about on the floor. And again, we know he's moving. So of course, his apartment isn't gonna be in the state that like it normally would be in, but this was so drastic. And Terry said she had been with him

as he was packing up his apartment. And she was like, no, no, no, no, he had a streamlined process. He had like lists for everything. He was doing each room like one, one at a time. Yeah. It wouldn't have looked like this. He would never leave the apartment in such disarray. And there were other troubling things too. His medicine was left at home.

And this was medication that he would need to take daily and he wouldn't have left home permanently without. His Mazda pickup truck was still parked out front with his kayak top tied on top of it. So he also had plans to sell that truck before moving so she was kind of surprised that it was still there. And then there was a folder on the floor with a letter inside from his doctor. Now the letter was for him to bring when he had gone to that drug test for his new job. Yeah. It stated that he was taking percassette

for a recent knee surgery and it was prescribed. That way it wouldn't raise any alarms if it came up on his test. Okay. But by the time Chris's apartment was searched, he should have already gone to North Carolina to take that drug test. So why would this be with him?

Like why would this be left at the end of the experiment? Yeah, exactly. And then the investigators were actually able to get in touch with that company that he was going to be working for. And that company let them know that not only had he not shown up for his drug test, but he actually hadn't answered any follow-up calls. And the supervisor there kind of assumed

that Chris had found another job and that he was kind of screening his calls because he wasn't gonna end up working for the place that he'd been hired at. Yeah. And before this call, the investigators thought, you know, maybe Chris just decided to start moving a bit early, but then the state of his apartment, the call with the new employer and what they would find soon in his car, would tell them otherwise. Okay.

So they search his apartment like I just said, things aren't right. So then they're like we got to get to his car, we got to see what's going on in there. Yeah. So they go to the park and ride where Chris's car was left and again they're able to gain entry like I said. And there were a couple things left behind that just made it more and more likely that he hadn't just gotten up and walked away from his life. His knee brace was sitting in the front seat and Terry reminded the investigators that this knee surgery that he had was very recent and he was supposed to be wearing that brace at all times. So the fact that it wasn't there was weird. He'd also left his water bottle behind which was like super unlike him. And on top of that there was a weird post it that was found

in the car. So all these other weird things are lying around and then they find a post it. And it seemed to be directions to somewhere. They read 424 feet stop sign left through four way stop left on side street to yield sign left over Creek Creek root and alley brown house. The directions led the investigators to somebody's whose name had come up a couple times already in this investigation. Could you guess who? Is there name Kim? Kelly. Kelly.

Is there name Kim? No, it's Kelly. So it went into Kelly's Hawkins house. And it was also determined that Chris' phone was last used on October 14th, and that it was also the last day he had had any baking activity. Like they realized that, so they were like, and then the last place he goes is to Kelly Cochran's house, and they're having an affair. Why don't we head on over there to see if she knows anything?

Yeah. So the police get to Kelly and Jason's home. Remember she's still married to Jason? And Jason is the one who answers the door. Now Officer Cindy Burrett asks if Jason's home. Remember she's still married to Jason. And Jason is the one who answers the door. Now officer Cindy Barrett asks if Kelly's home. And Jason says that she's not right now. He didn't know exactly where she was, but he said she'd be home in about an hour

if they want to come back. But there was just like something off about the whole situation and officer Barrett sensed it. So she was like, I'm gonna stick around a little bit longer and ask you a couple questions. So she was like, okay, is there anybody else in the house? Jason was like, no. And just as he's answering, a woman walks down the stairs and like comes up from behind him. So they're like, why did you just lie to us? There is somebody in the house. And that somebody is Kelly Concritt

and she comes up to her and she's like, hey, what's going on? That's the most suss way of, wow. That's crazy. Is anybody else in the house? No, suddenly a human appears. Yeah. Like, what are you doing, dude? Stop hiding. So Kelly is like, oh, what's going on?

And the officers explain that they're looking into the disappearance of one of her coworkers, Chris Regan. But before they got too much further, excuse me, they were like, hey, why did your husband just lie to our faces? And Kelly told them that Jason probably just thought she was in some kind of trouble,

and he was just covering for her. But they were like, that's not good. Yeah, it's got a good way to get out of it. No, like your husband shouldn't be lying to the cops, man. So they were like, yeah, okay. But then the whole time they're talking to Kelly, Jason, Kelly seems totally chill. But Jason is kind of standing like something's bothering him and like he's trying not to show it. Like he looks very tense in this moment. Yeah. But Kelly, I think they literally said she was as cool as a cucumber. So they're like, what the fuck is going on here? Like you guys want to come

down to the station and chat with us? Like you guys wanna come down to the station and chat with us, like we're asking nicely, but I don't really think you have a lot of choice. So they were like, yeah, yeah, we'll come down to the station. And when they got there, two very different interviews were conducted. So Kelly goes first and she explains to the investigators that she and Chris were involved in an affair

and that her husband, Jason, not only knew about it, but he was cool with it. Interesting. Yeah, she said. I mean, I'm not judging, but that is weird. Well, because it doesn't seem like he's cool with it when he's standing there super tense. Yeah, yeah.

And you're on the same page. And people, I feel like people who are cool with open relationships, they don't call it an affair. Exactly. You would say that you have an open relationship. Yeah. And that's not how she was describing it. She said that she was allowed to sleep with other people.

Oh, yeah, that's weird. Yeah, I'm not sure. So she was like, not only does he know about it, he's fine with it. And she explains how he's injured and unable to quote unquote perform. So they decided to separate. And then, and that's the thing, she said they separated.

But then they had an understanding that she would sleep with other people, but they'd stay together. So I'm like, so you're not separated, really. Yeah. And then she explained that while she was involved with Chris, she was also seeing another man at work named Eric.

And that her husband Jason knew about both of them. She then recalled the last time that she and Chris had seen each other and she said it was right around the time that she went missing, but she couldn't be, she couldn't lock in a day. She was like, I think it was like this day or this day. And she said that she went over to his apartment for dinner. She said she'd done this many times before

and she knew he was moving. So, and not only did she know he was moving, she claimed that Chris asked her to go to Ashville, North Carolina with him. And she said, I just didn't wanna leave Iron River because it's my home now and it's quote unquote the most peaceful place I've ever been. Yeah, I'm sure.

Yeah. So as a little goodbye get together, she cooked and made lasagna for the two of them. They slept together and then she headed back home to Jason and that was that she hadn't heard from him since. So they were like, oh, okay, have you ever been to the Bates Parkin ride where Chris and obviously like that's where Chris's car is abandoned, but they don't say that yet for her. Yeah. And she's like, not only have I never been there, I've actually, I've never heard of that, like, what's that? And they're like, oh, that's where Chris's car

was abandoned. Now Kelly seemed confident in what she was saying. She definitely seemed to be calm and shooting the shit with them at this point, but they're trained investigators. And there's something off about her and they just can't put their finger on it. But what didn't help was that, like I said, they had just been to Chris Regan's apartment. And there was no sign of leftover lasagna anywhere. And remember, she said she made him a lasagna. And the dirty dishes left behind, like I said, were from takeout, not lasagna.

But you can't arrest somebody for lying about lasagna as far as I know. So as a mental note, they were like, you know what, let's just keep tabs on Kelly. And they said, oh, they also said, would you be willing to take a lie detector test before they wrapped up the interview? Yeah.

She declined. Oh, of course. She said, no thanks. Of course. Which, you know, we say all the time, that is your right, you can decline a lie detector test. But it makes you look so suspicious. It makes you look sus, but then at the same time,

you can understand why somebody would because there's like false positives all the time. Yeah, exactly. I've personally never done a lie detector test, but I am terrified of them, because if someone asks me a serious question under pressure, I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, I don't know how it works.

Because I think what I don't know, like exactly how it works, so don't quote me. But it senses different stuff in your body that your flight or flight. And if you're nervous, of course, it's going to like skew it. So sometimes people will say no to it, but then you're right at the same time you look suspicious. So it's such a catch-true. I do love those YouTube videos of the celebrities taking the lie detector test.

Oh, I didn't even know that was a thing. They have one with the Muppets and I definitely suggest you watch again because it's wicked funny. Anyways, go on. The Muppets take lie detector test. All right, I think it's Big Bird. I think it's wicked funny. Anyways, go on. The Muppets take a lot of time. All right, I think it's Big Bird. I think it was Big Bird. He takes a lot of time. Yeah.

That's hilarious. Does he pass? Spoiler alert. I think so. I don't know. I'm going to watch it later. All right. Well, so we wrap up Kelly's interview.

They're like, hey, you want to take a lot of time. She's like, no, I know my rights. And they go into interview Jason. Now, like I said, these are two very different interviews. And Jason's interview goes completely differently than Kelly's did. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill?

Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong, and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, breaking down Lori Valow, a.k.a. Mummy Doomstays Motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into

these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey, prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Like I said, Kelly, she was cool as a cucumber, Jason moxin, and is crying almost immediately. Oh my God. Bread flag, red flag, red flag.

Yeah. And he explains to the investigators through his shaky voice that he was seeing a therapist for anxiety and that he was also taking something for anxiety. And he mentioned that he had spent about five days in a mental facility because he was suicidal. Now that was something the investigators actually heard when they were asking about Chris Riegan that he and Kelly's work. And some of Kelly and Chris' co-workers, after telling the investigators about their

affair, also mentioned that Kelly had been out of work recently and it was because she was going through some marital issues at home. And the investigators later learned from the company's management, that the marital issues were a lot more serious than just like a little spat that she and Jason had been into.

Kelly and actually told her boss that she could not come in one day because not only was her husband suicidal, but he was planning to kill her before he killed himself. Yeah, so when Jason was asked about this, he said that he never had any thoughts about killing Kelly, but yes, he had been suicidal, which was sad. And the rest of his interview consisted of the investigators asking him about Kelly's extramarital affairs. And the rest of his interview consisted of the investigators asking him about Kelly's extramarital affairs.

Okay. Now, Kelly made it seem like he was totally fine with the situation, but his body language and his attitude seemed to say something different. Yeah. And they asked him, they say, have you ever met Chris? And he says, no, I haven't. But I did walk past his apartment one day when Kelly was there. And they were like, well, why did you walk past his apartment?

Yeah. And he was like, I don't know. Like I just did. And they were like, it's like, you walk past his apartment? Yeah. And he was like, I don't know. Like I just did. And they were like, you can't just say that. And then act. Have a reason. Yeah. So he was like, I don't know.

I just walked by. Like I knew that she was there. And they were like, oh, well, were you angry? And he was like, no. And they were like, oh, OK. Like, so, yeah, that's good. And then they were like, would you want to take a lie detector test?

And he also declined. But the weirdness of the entire situation had police chief Laura Frazile pretty convinced that these two at least had an inkling as to what happened to Chris Regan. Yeah. Now a word from our sponsor, Better Help. Guys, ever since I've been reading these ads, I've really been doing a lot to take care of my mental because, like Better Help says, you take care of your car and you would take a lot of really good care of your car if you had to have the same one for your entire

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lp.com slash morbid. So the next person that she for as I wanted in for an interview was the man that Kelly had mentioned in her interview. The person from work that she had been sleeping with that was not Chris Regan, but was Eric. Okay. This was Eric Erickson. Now Eric, yes, great name. Eric agreed to come to the station and he was actually super cooperative with investigators. Okay. He agreed to take a lie detector test, which he passed. And he told them something interesting about his relationship with Kelly that literally proved she was lying about at least one thing.

She did know where the park and rat was because Eric told the investigators that she would come along with him and they would go down to this little lake area across from the park and ride because it was like a scenic view and they would hook up there. Wow. Why would she lie about the park and ride if she had nothing to hide? That's such an innocuous thing to lie about. Yeah. Unless you have a fucking reason. Exactly. So after Eric's interview, Kelly and Jason were brought in for another round of questioning. And Kelly would not budge when it was revealed that investigators had

spoken with Eric and knew that the two of them drove right past the park and ride every time they'd go hook up on the serene waterscape. But Jason, again, he too stuck with his same story, but at the same time, it was becoming clearer and clearer how nervous he was getting. And Chief Frizzo felt like getting a search warrant for Kelly and Jason's home would be the move if she wanted to get any further in this investigation. So that's just what she did. Okay. And this is where Drew shit gets so real.

You got him so nervous. You're gonna want to quit, but you can't. Oh man. Yes. So the search warrant was served on March 15, 2015, about five months after Chris had gone missing. The officers conducting the search made sure to ask about any weapons in the home before they had Kelly and Jason leave. And Kelly told them that there was a loaded 22. She kept under their TV console and neglected to mention any other mention of any other weapon. That was the only one she said they had. Okay, so I'm assuming there's gonna be more.

I don't know. So she and Jason, obviously, like I was just saying, they could not be present for the search. So they went across the street to stay with their neighbors. This search lasted about 12 hours. And Kelly and Jason's neighbors said that Jason specifically while he was waiting over across the street with them, he became more and more nervous as time went on. One neighbor who was interviewed for that

documentary I mentioned at the top, dead north, said of Jason, quote, he's not the same person that I knew from that point on. He was dead silent and beat red, scared. You could tell that he was scared. Wow. And for the first time, even Kelly seemed a little bit nervous, but at the same time, she was still pretty chatty, but she kept kind of like saying things to Jason that the other people like couldn't really hear, and they were like, something's weird here. It's like that case that you did.

It was very publicized. The mom with the kids that went missing. This was like last year. Oh, Lori Vallow. Yeah, her husband. Oh, yeah. He would look like super suspicious, like in interviews and court and stuff. And she always seemed like pretty.

Yeah, that's like it reminds me of that. Yeah, yeah, I could see that definitely. Actually, yeah, that's kind of what they have. There are some similarities between the two of them, I would say. Yeah. But so again, Kelly had only told the officers about one gun in the house when she was asked about weapons. What she did in tell them was that there was literally knives all over the place. And swords.

Swords and knives. Wow. Jason was apparently really into collecting those, and they were scattered all across this home. There was also another gun that was discovered in one of the upstairs rooms. I believe this was a shotgun. There was a hammer that was just like laying around and a baseball bat. All weapons.

But the biggest discovery of all was when Lumenall testing was done. You know what Lumenall testing is? Is that the blood testing? Yeah, so they like, I don't, I think like put lumenol on it and then they use black light. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they do lumenol testing.

And what seemed to be cast off was discovered in the living room. Cast off? So cast off, I wish Elaine was here to explain this better. I'm gonna do my best, but cast off is basically, if you like hit somebody and then you swing back, the castoff is from your swing back motion, I believe, and it's like what it's like a spider across

the surface. Okay. Yeah. So, they found castoff on the living room ceiling. And not only did the ceiling light up like the biggest strip, but so did some of the back panels on one of the living room walls. But the only problem was the area had been freshly painted over both areas where blood was discovered. Of course.

So when the blood was tested at the forensics lab, they weren't able to determine whose blood it was or even if it was human blood because the pain had contaminated the samples so much. But like come on. Yeah, I mean, that should just be like, it's solved right there when you see all that. Like, you wish it could be. Like, this man goes missing. His car is abandoned in a lot. You claim not to know about.

Then it turns out you do know the lot very well. Inside his abandoned car, there is a post-it note with directions to your home. Yeah. You were having an affair with said man, and your husband doesn't seem pleased. He checks himself into a mental facility days after the man you're having an affair with goes missing.

And then blood is found on your ceiling. I'm willing to bet that you did something to that man. Yeah. And just to add to the long list of things that seem to incriminate Kelly and Jason, are you ready? No. They left town the morning after their home was searched. Of course they did. The morning after their home was searched. Of course they did.

The morning after their home was searched. Are you not supposed to leave when stuff like that's happening? Or if you're like, yeee, no, I'm not totally sure. I mean, it doesn't look good. Like I'm sure they would prefer if you didn't. Yeah.

But yeah, they can find you because luckily, I'm not in this obviously isn't the case with every case, but in this case, they were worried about them fleeing, especially after they had found what they did in the home. So they, a couple of PIs were actually also working on this case along with the iron river PD because the iron river PD is super small. Sorry, what's P.I.

A private investigator. Got it. So two PIs actually put a GPS tracker on Kelly and Jason's truck during the search. Oh, good. So when they realized that they had left the next morning, they just looked at like the data and they could see exactly where they were going. They were going back to Indiana where they were from. Oh, yeah. Now that was not ideal, but the good thing was that with Kelly and Jason out of the neighborhood, the neighbor seemed more willing

to come forward and talk about some of the things that they had heard and smelled in the days following Chris's disappearance. Yeah, smelled? Yeah, this is the part where I told you it's gonna get a little rough. Okay. And here we go. One neighbor said that one night

around the time Chris disappeared, she actually heard what sounded like a gunshot, like in the middle of the night. And then she heard screaming and so she peeked out of her Windows and she said it wasn't super clear because there were some trees obstructing her view But she heard a car door slam and then saw a parked car sitting there like running with a headlights on She then at this point heard a woman go no no and then heard a man yell, let's get out of here. And at that point, two cars pulled away from the direction of Kelly and Jason's home and left.

Wow. And then in the night's following that strange event, the woman and her grandchildren, and who were adults, thankfully, that lived across the street, heard what sounded like power tools working all throughout the night. That's scary.

And what's scarier is that these power tools wouldn't start until about two or three in the morning. And then they would go until like all the way, like the early hours of the morning, like probably at like five, I would say. And the grandson who lived across the street, again an adult, thankfully David, he said that he heard what sounded like

saws, drills, and hammers. And then that's crazy. It really is. And when a neighborhood, like, and I've noticed this like in our neighborhood, when it's quiet and like, it's like late at night and I'm sitting outside and it's quiet, I can hear stuff down the street.

It's like crazy. So like to use power tools, you're waking up the entire neighborhood. Of course you are, like try to be a little more discreet. I'm glad you were. And that's the thing. Like obviously we're happy that she wasn't discreet about this, but it's like, oh my god.

Yeah. And then another neighbor, his name was Gary. And you can see him if you watch the documentary. He said that he smelled a strange smell one day, right around the same time, again, this time period that he realized Chris was missing later on. And he said that smell was definitely coming from Kelly and Jason's home. So he walked over and he was like, what are you burning and why doesn't it smell so bad? He said he had never smelled anything

like it before, but that when he approached Kelly, she did seem a bit nervous and said, it isn't smell that bad, does it? Oh my god. And he was like, that's such a weird response. Yeah, like what? Oops, throwing my phone. Sorry. Like why wouldn't you just be like, I don't even know what you would say. Like why wouldn't, maybe you just shouldn't be burning

something because you're acknowledging the fact that it smells. So like, what is it? Yeah, exactly. So Gary was not interested in going back and forth with her. He's like, what the fuck are you doing? And he's like, gee Kelly, I don't know. Like, should we get the cops down here to smell it

and decide for themselves? Oh my God. And at that point, Kelly was like, oh, no, no, no, no, I'll put it out right away. I'm so sorry about that. But the smell was still lingering and Gary said it was throughout the entire neighborhood. But he was like, he didn't want to start something,

so he's like, it smells, but she's so weird. Like, a smell that lingers through neighborhood. Like, yeah, I mean, we'll think about it. Like in our neighborhood, like you can smell if our neighbors are having like a fire or something. That's true, yeah. So, I mean, realistically what we're talking about here is she's burning human remains.

Like that, I think of like a smell, like the smell of a fire you're gonna smell, but human remains, I come on. And that's horrific to do that number one, and then to subject your entire neighborhood to that. Yeah. So, and that was not the least of the, that was not the last excuse me

of the neighborhood complaints. The family who let Kelly and Jason stay with them, while their home was being searched, the same one, the same family that heard the power tools going through the night. Yeah. They were actually pretty friendly with Kelly and Jason before all this started happening. I mean, obviously they were like, yeah, you can stay here while your house is being

searched. Yeah. So, they were told that the reason for all the power tool usage was because the caucons were just doing some remodeling. Um, 2-3 AM is weird times from home to A. Yeah, I'm sorry. But they did know that Kelly worked long days at the factory, so I think they were just like,

maybe that's the only time she has to remodel. I'm weird. I also think this is the kind of area. I mean, this is like way up there. Yeah. I think this is just one of those places where you try to keep your nose out of other people's business, you know?

Yeah. And like, not that that's a good thing or a bad thing, I think it's just the way it is. Yeah. And like, I personally also like to keep my nose out of other people's business, but I don't know. Anyways, it's not about me. One day after all this weirdness with the loud noises and the power tools and the leaving in the middle of the night, Kelly and Jason invite their neighbors, those neighbors across

the street over for a barbecue. And the neighbors got there, they said they had never been invited over for a barbecue for them. Yeah, like they're trying to prove something. Yeah, I don't know. They're like, sorry for all the noise, so let's have a barbecue.

Wow. And the neighbors said that there had to have been at least 150 to $200 worth of meat there when they arrived. What kind of meat? Exactly. But 150 to $200 worth of meat just for them in the caulkerns. Like there was like, I don't know, maybe like two or three at most four of them, plus Kelly and Jason's like, what is that?

Six, seven people. Yeah. You don't need that much meat. No, that's a lot. And it was like, they were burgers, but they were like, ugh, no. So they said these neighbors that these burgers were not like anything they had ever tasted before.

They said the meat was transparent. They would later compare it to lobster meat, which like, God, I'm like, ugh, I know. And then they said it didn't taste like the ground beef that they were used to. So they asked, they were like, oh, is this just like burger meat? Like, what is this?

And Jason said, oh, I used to be a butcher back when we lived in Indiana, and one of my specialties is exotic meat. Of course it is. Exotic meat. Like, please explain exotic meat, sir. From Indiana. Like, what are you talking about?

I mean, I don't think meat from Indiana, Caleb, watch out. For real. So if that was the case, they thought, then why was this the first time they were ever invited over for a barbecue? Like, you're used to be a butcher and this is the first time you're inviting us over? Yeah, it's like convenient. That used to be a butcher, so I'm like, what? Okay.

So when people started talking more and more about Kelly and Jason and their connection to the missing man and then they're set into part year of town, this guy David started thinking more and more about this barbecue. And he later said, we were always wondering if they were the kind of people that actually did kill the guy and butcher him up and had us over for dinner.

I believe we ate him. They ate the meat. They ate it. Yeah, I mean, like they tasted it. Like they were like, oh, I think this is this like lot. Like this is like lobster meat. What is this? And the guy said it was exotic. So they were like, okay.

And this poor man in the documentary, he goes a little deeper into it. And from the sounds of it, like this might have happened. If I went to someone's house and they served me what they said, exotic meat, I would be like, bye. Like I would leave. You think you would, but then in the moment,

you might be like, no, I can see how this happens. I mean, I've been at like friends houses before and like, I mean, different cultures eat differently. So I might be trying something that I've never had before and they could say like, oh, it's this exotic meat. I mean, I don't eat meat anymore, thankfully. So I'd be like, oh, I'm good. But.

Yeah, I don't know. Is there any way to find out that you've eaten human? Not to my knowledge. And that's the thing. You don't have any way of really knowing whether or not you did, but you have that experience to look back on. And I was just saying that guy in the documentary, again, he goes a little further into it, I believe

his name was David. And he was saying after he realized that this may have been what was done to him, which that's a crime in and of itself I would think, doing that to somebody else. It's like Catherine Knight doing it. But who's Catherine Knight? She's like, Australian scary Nana. Listen to that episode drew scary Nana. Yeah, she, listen to the episode.

Okay, I will. I can't get all into it. Sorry. I'm just kidding. But she may have, she tried to like, serve her husband for dinner to his children. Which is so horrific. Like that should carry its own charge.

I don't know if it does or not. What was the movie we just watched about the Cannibal? Oh God fresh. Yeah, that was really good movie, but like that will change in this as well. Yeah, be prepared for cannibalism. Yeah, horrific. But this guy, again, in the documentary, David,

he, David, he stopped. He was saying that it changed him for a while. Like, he literally, he lost a ton of weight because he just couldn't eat without thinking that he possibly. Yeah, I'm a man. Yeah, I mean, that could do some things, like. Yeah, seriously. So, back to the story. While Kelly and Jason were running off to Indiana, again, their house is still able to be searched, and the investigators were sifting through everything in the hopes they'd find

something more incriminating that could actually lead them to an arrest because, yes, there's blood spatter in the house, but we don't know if it's human or animal. It's so contaminated. Yeah. It can't, we can't really just use that, you know. So they're looking around and one day they're there, and police chief Laura Frezzo, she's in the basement of the home, and she sees this notebook in the corner

as she's going through stuff, and this notebook belongs to Jason. He would write these stories, like these really super creepy stories, and one of them was entitled Where Monsters Hide, which again is that book that I read for this, Not Jason's book, a different book. And he would basically write these short stories where he would make himself the hunter.

And then he introduced a character that was like very clearly supposed to be Chris Regan. He talks about hunting this person and the quote unquote tangle feeling that a hunter gets as he stalking his prey and getting ready to kill. And then in the last chapter he talks about an unwanted guest showing up and how the wife saves the day. And the notebook story even references a cookout after this unwanted guest is quote unquote gone. He literally wrote like the next day there's a cookout. What? So Laura is like, what the fuck? And she's like, you know what, we need to get the FBI involved in this because we're uncovering more and more within this home. And it's clear these people are responsible for Chris Regan's disappearance.

Yeah. Like most likely murder. But they're like, we need to get more hands on deck and make sure we have a slam dunk case when it comes time to arrest these people and bring them to trial. So they searched a nearby body of water and they actually found a burn barrel that was weighed down with a cement block and tied to it with a clothing line. Interestingly enough, that clothing line used to be hung up in the backyard of the caulkins residence and neighbors confirmed it was taken down right around the time that Chris went missing and that burn barrel which they didn't find anything in but it belonged to Chris or excuse me I'm sorry it belonged to Kelly and Jason Cochran.

Wow. So the burn barrel and the close the close thing around it. Yeah. Wow. Now again nothing in the burn barrel but there was another discovery to be made, because the FBI was able to use GPS from Chris' car to show that he was actually at Kelly and Jason's home the day he went missing on October 14th when all of his everything stopped the making activity, the texting activity, and they were able to determine that was the last place

his car went before it was driven to the parking right. Of course it was. Yeah, which I'm like kind of shocking that they weren't able to get anything from the car that said like Kelly or Jason drove it there, which kind of leads you to believe and there's other things in this case

that we'll get into later, that will lead you to believe. These people might have done something like this before. Really? How are you going to drive a car and abandon it and leave nothing behind? Yeah, that's like wild. It's clear that they were the ones that drove it there. If the last place, Chris went, was there house?

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And luckily we don't see this all the time as listeners nail as you wear those no, but the police over there they agreed to help in any way that they possibly could. Which is shocking. Like obviously you listen to most morbid episodes, but I feel like a lot of the times the police departments are not working or not willing to work together. Yeah, no. But I think this is such a different case to where it's like clear that these two people were involved in it.

Yeah, they were willing to help. And once Laura got her DNA warrant, she actually had it on over to Indiana herself to swab some cheeks. So the police in Indiana had picked Kelly and Jason up explaining about the warrant for DNA. But what they didn't do was tell them that Laura Frizzo, somebody they knew and pretty much fucking loathed at this point, she was here to chat. So they're all set up in the interview room and they're just expecting probably like an

officer to come in and swap their cheeks. Yeah. And Laura walks in. Amazing. And they're separated again. So like, it's Jason first and then it's Kelly. Yeah. So she walks into the interview room Jason first and then it's Kelly. Yeah. So she walks into the interview room like Madison Montgomery from AHA's Coven going, surprise,

bitch, I thought you'd seen the last of me, right? But you thought you'd seen the last of me. She does this first in the interview with Jason who looked pissed. Yeah. And after answering just a couple of questions, he said, I know my rights, I'm not answering anything else, I want a lawyer. All right. So yeah, like again, one of those things where I like, yes, that is your right to a lawyer, but like in this case, you'll look and shuddy. Yeah, yeah.

And then Kelly then was Madison Montgomery I'm read by Laura Frizile and Laura Tolter. She's like, listen, I've got you in a ton of lies up to this point. Like do you want me to just lay them out on the table? I know what happened. Yeah. And she suggested, you know, maybe Jason I thought you went a ton of lies up to this point. Do you want me to just lay them out on the table? I know what happened. And she suggested, maybe Jason was the one to kill Chris

and a jealous rage and you're covering for him, I can help you, but this is the last chance you have. If you don't come clean to me right now, I'm not interested in helping you any further. Laura Frzzo is a bad bitch. Watching her in this documentary, I was like, yeah, girl, is Kelly gonna blame it on Jason. I don't know. So Laura tells her again, this is your chance to come clean. We're gonna figure this out

moddy.do Kelly's like, no, and she asks for a lawyer if she's gonna be held any further. Okay. And unfortunately, she couldn't be held any further that night. They just really didn't have a lot. Like they could have arrested her at that point for murder, but they really don't have enough. It's they have a good amount of circumstant for murder, but they really don't have enough. It's, they have a good amount of circumstantial evidence, but like they wanna make sure that this is a slam. So they need like a smoking gun essentially. So again, Laura just has a gut feeling.

And in this time she says, I feel like something's gonna happen between Kelly and Jason and Indiana, like something's gonna go down and it's not gonna be good. Oh man. And her gut was correct because just about a year after they fled to Indiana, the Indiana police got a 911 call from one Kelly Cochran.

She sounded super stressed out but still under control and she explains that she needs an ambulance to her house right away because her husband is not breathing. Jason, okay. So the MTs and the other first responders, they make it to the scene, but it's almost like Kelly's trying to hold them back

from getting to her husband. She's like getting in the way of anybody who's approaching Jason, she's asking them questions, she's trying to explain stuff, but she's literally like using her body to get forcefully in the way of them. Oh. So, and obviously all they're concerned

with at this point is treating Jason. So Kelly actually had to be removed from the room and put to stay in another room, which was put down in the report. They were like, she was being weird as fuck. Yeah. And they get to Jason. They realize that there's some drug paraphernalia

in the room with him. It was heroin, the paraphernalia. Wow. And it was when Jason's body was later autopsy, it was clear that he died from a heroin overdose. Like he had a massive amount of heroin in his system. But upon closer look, that was not the only factor in his death. And they, like the investigators working this case,

told the medical examiner, sure, I'm like, there's definitely like heroin in his system. But please look out for things that say homicide because we're not so sure here. Yeah. So he did a super thorough search of this man and he finds particular hemorrhaging in Jason's eyes, like around Jason's eyes. And a particular hemorrhaging happens when you are choked or strangled. And they also realize that Jason's sinus cavities,

so like right here, is completely collapsed, meaning that there was evidence of strangulation here in addition to the overdose. But there was like no sign like on his neck or anything. No sign on his neck, but you'll see what happens. So the death was determined to homicide due to heroin overdose and his fixation. And clearly Kelly was the one responsible.

But the police needed to work carefully if they were going to prove that she did, while also proving that she was involved with Chris Regan's death. I'm actually not sure if I say it later, so I'll just say it now. They think that she used like a pillow to smother him, but she put so much pressure on the pillow that that's how his sinus cavities like smashed it. He couldn't breathe so his eyes, the particular hemorrhages, that's what happened. Got it. So they're like obviously she did this, but we need again, we need more to prove it. Yeah. So around the same time, I'm sorry. I don't understand like, like what more do they need?

They need like again, they could go to trial with this with all the circumstantial evidence, but it's really kind of like, I'm trying to think of like the right adjective. It's a toss up going to trial with purely circumstantial evidence because I think maybe they could have gotten a jury with this, like with all the circumstantial evidence

they did have, but there's still that question of, is there a reasonable doubt? Like could somebody else have done this? So they want something straight up. Okay. Straight up through. So around this same time, a new officer was actually brought on the case.

And this is officer Jeremy Ogden, I believe, so I say his last name, he's freaking adorable. And there's a little romance later, but let's get to the, let's save it for the end. So Jeremy kind of fills the role of Good Cop because at this point Kelly's done with Officer Laura Frizzo. And she Frizzo knew that she wasn't gonna get anywhere

interview and Kelly herself at this point, especially because she's like, I, like her previous interview, she's like, I laid it all on the table that I caught her in all these lies. She's gonna know that I'm looking to catch her in more lies, so I need a good cop on my side.

So now, Ogden can focus on that, and she could keep searching the caucas residents for more. Now, eventually, the FBI did uncover more evidence within that home. OK. Part of a man's pair of jeans were found, like the metal bits, including the zipper, as well as the blade of a reciprocating saw

was found in a burn pit out back. So they find like metal bits of a man's jeans and the blade of a reciprocating saw in a burn pit outside of Kelly and Jason's house. And the reason they couldn't see this was before was because again, we're in like the upper peninsula, it was snowy as fuck. Yeah.

So all the snow melted and then they find this. Okay. So the jeans unfortunately couldn't be linked directly to Chris Regan and the blade was so burnt that there was no possibility they were gonna get any kind of DNA from it. Oh, no. A damning find about a frustrating one at the same time.

Yeah. And then also they found a blue rabbit's foot under the front porch. So somebody had like literally gone under the front porch and like shoved this underneath there. And Terry said that that blue rabbit's foot belonged to Chris. She said that he did like, he probably wouldn't have wanted people to know it,

but he was a very superstitious man and he would carry it with him for luck. Okay. Which is like, obviously that's his. Yeah. And that's so sad. So again, the police wants something more solid. And luckily, they got just that.

When a friend of Jason's came forward and said he wanted to help in this investigation. So he had heard about everything that was going on. And he kind of got to the point, too, where he wondered not only had his friend been involved in Chris Regan's death, but was Kelly the one responsible for killing his friend. Yeah. So he phones up the police and he says, I'm willing to help. And Jeremy Ogden comes up with a master plan.

This friend, Walt, was to call Kelly and tell her that before Jason died, he had given Walt this envelope and told him that there was a letter and a note inside explaining everything and that if anything bad were to happen to him Jason that Walt should open the envelope. So this was all fake. This had never happened. This was Jeremy Ogden's plan to try to get Kelly.

Okay. So he has Walt called Kelly and basically explained like I got this note from Jason and he said I should open it if anything happened to him to get like to get her freaked out. The fake note from Jason quote unquote again, not really from him. Yeah. Explained that he and Kelly were involved in Chris Regan's disappearance

and that Walt needed to send this letter to the Iron River Police Department. So Walt calls Kelly, Walt, so sorry, Walt explains this whole thing to Kelly. Unbeknownst to her, he is sitting in a cop car on a recorded line literally right next to Officer Jeremy Ogden. And Kelly's answer is damning. When Walt said, you know, I really just want to let you know before I go ahead and send this out. Kelly responds, please don't. Please don't send that letter.

Because she knows that this letter, this fake letter, like she doesn't know it's fake, but she knows that it's explained everything, or she thinks it explains everything that they did. So they got her. So they got her. She starts absolutely cracking at this point. She's calling and texting Jeremy Ogden

and saysently telling him about this letter. Obviously, he knows full well about this letter because he fucking made it up in the first place. But Kelly, she thinks it's real, and she's like, fuck, like my days as a free woman are gonna come to an end once that letter ends up in the hands of the Iron River PD. Yeah.

It was then that she came down to the station. And after a little more good cop, I understand, act from Jeremy Ogden, she confesses and she says, Jason shot Chris on the head on October 14th after I learned him over with the promise of a hookup. So it was planned. Yeah, it was all planned.

Wow. She explains in further detail that she was actually supposed to be the one to kill Chris, but she couldn't do it because she really did have feelings for him. You see, she and Jason, she said, had made this pact on their wedding night. That if on their wedding night, that if one of them was to ever have an affair, the person who was cheating on the other person, that person who was having the affair would have to kill the person that they were cheating with. If the other person found out about the infidelity,

so like, what kind of pact is that and to go through with it? Like, not only like what kind of exactly, what kind of pact is that and like, why would you go through with it? Seriously. And also, why is that the conversation you're having on your wedding night?

Like, spoilerly. On our wedding night, on your wedding night? Expo, literally. On our wedding night, I don't want to come up with a pact. No, I don't want to make a pact period. I don't think so. I don't think so. It's a nice pact. I'm not making that. That's something like messed up to go through with that.

Yeah, it's like to be, to make the pact and then years later still hold it as seriously. Like, it's crazy. This was in 2002 that they allegedly made this pact because again, you know, Jason's not here to say whether he did this or not, but maybe they did. But 2002, then you killed a man and I believe it was 2014. Like, what? Wow.

And she said, she was like, I didn't take it seriously, but like Jason did. But it's like, obviously, you took it seriously. It's the reason you killed, you either killed or were involved in this man's death. So does she confess what happened to Jason? Well, get there, okay. I'm sorry.

I'm just kidding. But I'm glad we've agreed that we're not gonna make any kind of weird happen. Yeah, I don't know what happened. That is not happening. The other thing is like, you just just vow not to cheat on each other. Exactly. So like, we don't have to get any further into it than that.

Like I vow that you're mine forever. Yeah. Awesome, super stoked about that. Let's just eat some cake and dance, and then I don't know. Yeah, like why? I don't even get it. I don't even know.

Yeah. So she later said she had no idea that Jason was home when she brought Chris over. So they're like, so wait, you were supposed to have this whole plan where like you're going to lure him over with the promise of sex and your husband's going to shoot him. But then you say, you bring this man to your house. He's like allegedly had never been there before.

And you didn't know Jason was home. What is it, Kelly? She starts telling these like stories that just completely differentiate from one another. Okay. So yeah, she says, I had no idea that Jason was even home when I brought Chris over. And she said they were fooling around in the front entry way of her home. It's a little hard to describe this part. But again, if you watch that documentary, she actually recreates this. It's very harrowing. So she says they're folding around in the front entry room. She said like they couldn't even make it to where they were headed. And that as they're about to walk up, there's some steps that lead into the kitchen. They're about to walk up those steps to make their way into a more private setting. At that point, Jason appeared from them

and behind the front entryway. So if you walk, pretend like you're walking into the house and on one side there's stairs that lead to a basement. Let's just say to your left for Schitzen giggles. On the left there's stairs that lead to the basement and on the right there's a couple steps that lead into the kitchen. So they're fooling around in the entryway.

Little quote unquote little does she know it, but Jason is hiding in the basement area. And as they turn to walk up into the kitchen, Jason is behind them at this point and shoots Chris. According to Kelly. Okay. She says then after Chris was shot, that he stumbles backwards,

which I don't know about that, but from the force of the shot, and he falls downstairs into the basement. And then at this point, Jason demands that Kelly help him cover everything up and that after he was done dismembering the body, she was to clean the basement, the entire basement with a toothbrush. Wow. Yeah. But there were problems with her story. If they had this packed, then why would Kelly have even brought Chris to her home and less to follow through with it?

Like he had never been there before. They always went to Chris's house. Yeah, and I was gonna say like, if you had this packed, why do it in your house? Exactly, other than if you have this packed and you're bringing him to your house, you know what's gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And then the other thing that doesn't really make any sense at all is that there was no blood found in the basement. Remember, all of that castoff was found in the living room. And it just doesn't make any sense at all. Investigators believed that Jason did shoot Chris, but believed that Kelly knew that this was the plan all along and her role in it was to keep Chris distracted, which is what I believe. Okay. Now, personally, I don't believe that all of this happened in the front entryway.

I think that they got further into the house and then Chris, excuse me, and then Jason came up from behind when they were in like a completely different room, maybe even an entirely different situation. But nonetheless, they wanted her to lead them to the body, the investigators, which she said, and this is horrible. I hate that this happened to this poor man. She said that his body was separated into large black trash bags and brought to a wooded area where the bags were scattered. And she was the one that brought the body to this area. Now, the night that she confessed, she went back to Michigan with Jeremy Ogden to recreate their murder scene like I was just saying at her house. And to also show him the area where they

found the body. It was too late to go into the woods and start looking for the body like they wanted to go back in daylight. And Kelly was supposed to meet up with the detectives again the next day so that they could go over more of her story. but just like she had with Jason a year previous, Kelly skipped town. Of course she did. She's already done it once. Of course she's going to. Just the fact that she was out, like, free

and she had confessed that she knew. Like what a hat. I don't get that. I think they were just trying to play nice with her, and I'm sure they were also trying their best to keep tabs on her, but like, as we know, sometimes be these people get away. I think they were, sure they were also trying their best to keep tabs on her, but like, as we know, sometimes be these people get away. Yeah.

I think they were, what they were trying to do was play nice with her and, you know, so that they could get more out of her. Okay. Because I think they knew the second that they arrested her, that was it. Yeah, because they still had to figure out what happened in Jason.

Exactly. Yeah. And that's my assumption. I'm not sure if that's exactly why, but based on what I read and watched, I think that had a lot to do with it. But thankfully, she was dumb about it, and she got cocky, which we know is always the downfall of these fricking people, murderers.

They think that they're smarter than the detectives working the case and that they have that per hand. But then they go and do something silly because they have this like false sense of confidence going, which is exactly what happened in Kelly's case. She started texting Detective Ogden taunting him about how she knew she was getting away. And she sends him a photo and says, the West Coast looks good this time of day.

Senses, this man of fucking self, he wants to see you. And she made it seem like she was off somewhere in California. Little did this, but no, text messages can be traced, obviously, like we try and gillate the shit all the time. Little did this, but no, text messages can be traced, obviously. Like we try and gillate the shit all the time. And hers was traced to a little area in Kentucky where she was promptly arrested and brought

back to Michigan. Finally, she's arrested. So she does end up leading them to the area where she said Chris's body was disposed of, and they were able to find a skull. And obviously it was determined to be Chris Regan's skull. Now she also took them back to her home, and she showed them a pair of four seps that was just like lying by the kitchen, sink.

For some reason, like, I don't think anybody really thought much of these before. And she was the one to point them out. And she said, Jason had forced her to use those four seps to try to remove the bullet from Chris's skull because had they left the bullet behind like it would be easier if he was found to know what gun had killed him so that's why they wanted to do that. It was unsuccessful but Kelly said there might be some kind of DNA on them because she had attempted to do this. By now she knew

she was caught and she started fully leaning into the evil part of her that she'd been able to hide away throughout this entire case. She would switch back and forth though. She'd say, Jason was the one behind the entire plan and that's how this all happened. And then she would say it was always her and that she'd always been like this. Like she couldn't feel things. She said she couldn't feel things like other people did. She even wanted to say, this was like the weirdest part.

She said she got a thrill from blood, but she did want to specify that she quote unquote, wasn't a vampire or some weird shit like that. Ma'am, you're a whole last murderer. That is some weird shit. Yeah, like you're not a vampire, but you sure as hell are a cannibal? Well, like what?

Or like you get some thrill out of watching other people. Yeah. On me notes to memory, like eating that meat. That's such like an interesting, like I'm not a vampire. I don't even think of that. You're so funny. It's not the right way. So Ironic, I guess you would say.

Like this happens all the time. In these cases that we do, where the people are like, well, I did this, but I would never do that. Like people that like kill children are like, I would never, you know, eat them. They're like, punch them. I was like, oh, that makes it better. You're like, no.

No, not at all. Like it's, I'm glad you didn't suck anyone's blood, but you took someone's life. So same deal, brother. Wow. Now, sure enough, someone's life. So same deal, brother. Now, sure enough, and thankfully, because at this point, I mean, now we've got the skull in life, so like she's going away, but then even more on top of that,

Chris' blood was found on those four steps. So Kelly was facing not only one murder charge for the death of her husband at this point, because they know that she's done this. She's the only one in the home. And now she's facing a second murder charge for Chris Regan, and again, also her husband at this point because they know that she's done this, she's the only one in the home. Yeah. And now she's facing a second murder charge for Chris Regan, and again, also her husband,

Jason Cochran. So while she's incarcerated, she tells the cops that she and Jason had killed before. And that she had, quote unquote, friends that were buried all across the world. We have Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, and Tennessee. And she all over the world. Yeah, all over the world. I'm like, that's actually, is that just like the last four states in the middle? Yeah, it's just the Midwest, bro.

She refused to give any names or locations of these bodies at first, but she later wrote a list with 21 names of the people that she said that she and Jason killed. And then in a shocking revelation, her brother went to the police and told them that he had been suspicious over the years of Kelly and Jason. And he believed that the two of them had killed at least nine people

across the states that Kelly had mentioned. So there is a possibility that that could be the truth. Yeah. But unfortunately, even if it is the truth, Kelly will not be prosecuted for any more murders in Indiana. She took a plea deal during Jason's murder trial that basically says if she gives the police information on the whereabouts of any more victims, she cannot face any more charges in Indiana. So like she can face charges like in the other states. Yes, she can. Between the two murders,

Kelly was found guilty on multiple counts, including murder, home invasion, because they believe that she actually may have gone to Chris's home and like got some shit out of the house and like fucked with it because his percussets were missing. All of his medication was accounted for, except for percussets. Wow.

She was also charged with conspiracy to commit bodies bodies disentermin, excuse me, to commit bodies disentermin and mutilation, concealing the death of an individual, lying to a police officer and accessory to murder after the fact. She didn't, oh sorry, did you have question? No, I was just going to say, yep. That sounds about right. You could say, yeah, that's all of those. She didn't have to go on trial for Jason's murder, and instead they just tacked on 65 years for her murder onto her life sentence

that she received for Chris's murder. So she got life plus 65 years. So they didn't even have to, like, they're like, we know you did that. Yeah, exactly. And she like confesses at one point. She said she did it because he took the only thing that she ever loved away from her, which was Chris.

But then she, exactly. Go ahead. But she planned that. Well, there's a pack. There's a pack, she said that she planned it. But she also says that she can't feel. So like if you can't feel, then you weren't in love. Yeah, exactly.

It doesn't make any sense. She's just wild and out. So Terry, remember Terry O'Donnell from the beginning, Chris's ex-girlfriend, who, like, they, it seemed like they were gonna start their relationship again, like it seemed like they were working on it because remember she was gonna spend Thanksgiving with him before he moved, when he moved, excuse me.

But, and they were longtime friends anyway. And she said of Kelly during the trial, the first time I saw her was, excuse me, the first time I saw her was in the courthouse. I just remember her staring at me and grinning. Like, she had the audacity to grin at this one. What the hell? Terry said, I took a deep breath and thought she was the scariest person I had ever seen. I was afraid. I couldn't look at her for the rest of the time I was there testifying. It was like she was

laughing and saying, look what I did, you can't stop me. She just sat there and grinned. It was like the devil looking at you. And after I testified, I lost it. I totally lost it. I just remember driving, speeding, not knowing if I had crossed the border. I didn't know if I was in Wisconsin or Michigan. I didn't know what to do. I just wanted to run as far away from Kelly as possible. Yeah, I would too. Yeah, I don't blame her at all. So Kelly is currently being held at the woman's Huron Valley Correctional Facility. It's in Pitsfield Charter Township, Michigan.

She apparently spends her time turning her glasses into shanks and threatening to kill anybody who comes near her. All right. Yeah, it was like maybe we should take her glasses away, but I think she has the right to those unfortunately. Laura Frizzo believes just like I do 100% that Kelly has killed before. And she actually has a theory because Kelly has 14 butterfly tattoos that are representative

she said of people that she's lost in her life. But Laura Frizzo has a theory that these 14 butterflies are actually representative for people that she's killed. Yeah, Laura was absolutely haunted while going through the Cochrane's home when she made this realization because it was like a glass shatter moment. The entire home inside and out is decorated with butterflies. Oh my God.

And this is nuts. This is crazy. Are you ready? No. So Laura was recreating the scene for that documentary dead north. Yeah. And she is out in the area where they had originally

found Chris' skull. And as they're out there kind of recreating this moment, the crew actually finds another piece of human remains was later tested and confirmed to be Chris Regan's lower jaw. So they found more of him while they were out there. Wow. Now, this was one of the biggest investigations and one of the most successful in Laura's career.

Yeah. But for some reason, after Kelly's conviction, the city manager dismissed Laura from her duties. She was fired as police chief. What the hell? This guy had a long history when it came to being gross in the workplace, especially with women. And Laura felt as though he was threatened by the fact

that she was a woman who was good at her job. So he just got rid of her. Yeah, of course. Because she just solved a huge case. She just solved a huge case. Of course. She was also the first female police officer to be hired within that division.

Yeah, and of course, I'd like to let her police officer to be hired within that division. Yeah, of course. Yeah. I think let her go. Yeah, let's go. Totally. She actually did something amazing for the community. Exactly. Because he didn't want her, because she technically

was not a homicide detective. And he didn't want her spending as much time as she did on the Chris Regan investigation. But it's like, she brought the man home and put the killer behind bars. What do you have to be? She Aaron Brock evitched it. She did. What do you have to be? She Aaron Brock averaged it. She did.

Like what do you have to be mad about? Yeah. And that's the thing. The entire Iron River community was behind her and they were so impressed with the investigation that she was able to carry out. Like they were literally making posters like let chief Frizzo like do her job.

Good. For a loan. But the decision was the city manager, David Thares to make, and it was final. Wow. So after all her hard work in this investigation, she got fired. But she and Jeremy Ogden ended up together. They met for the investigation, and she felt like it was like kind of the universe bringing them together. That's cute. That was like happy. That's like the only happy thing within this. Kelly has not faced any more charges. We have not found out if she has murdered more people.

We haven't found any more bodies. And there doesn't seem to be an update on anything related to her when it comes to this. But she has maintained that she has killed more people. And like I said, she said the reason she finally turned on Jason was because she really did love Chris Regan. And even though, again, she's incapable of Jason was because she really did love Chris Regan and even though again She's incapable of feeling she says she went on to say he took the only good thing and I had in my life I still hate him and yes, it was revenge. I evened the score What?

That's like and like I Mean I guess I even to the score means like he killed her man that she loves so she killed him, but to me I'm like, the score? You made the pact. You made the pact. You knew that if you hadn't a fair, he was going to kill the person. Right, or no, she knew that if she had an affair

and he found out she was supposed to kill the person. Oh yeah, but either way, you knew the person was gonna die. Like the whole point of that pact is so you don't have a fucking affair. Exactly. I mean, that of that pact is so you don't have a fucking affair. Exactly. I mean, that's like a weird pact, don't do that. But for me, even the score,

I'm like, were you keeping tally's like, if you believe that other people have been killed, like, did he ever have an affair and you killed the person? Yeah. I don't know, man. Because I feel like that's some sick thing where they're just gonna have affairs

and just because they clearly are murderers. So they're just gonna keep having an affairs and killing the people like I feel like and like even when they moved to iron river it seemed like super sudden like Laura Frieza was like were they running from something like how they killed somebody back in Indiana and we're trying to get away Yeah, cuz they would like pop around all those states states. So it's like suspicious. It's super suspicious, but that is Kelly Cochran, the devil woman of Michigan, and potentially of many other states in the Midwest, but like Drew said, not the whole world. Yeah, I just looked up a picture of her and it makes sense.

Yeah, you feel Terry's vibe of wanting to run away from her. Yeah. The thing for me that, I mean, this whole entire case, like rocked my shit, but the butterfly tattoo. Yeah, that's freaky. Cause she gives an interview from prison where she says that they're representative of people that she's lost.

And you're like, but you have so many. And then it's like lost. Like did Jason kill those people? Like you were having having affairs with those people and because of the fact he killed them or you had to. Yeah. Like, and then you're saying that's a lost.

And like, are they gonna try and figure out that people, other people they killed or did she just confessed all of them? I mean, she confessed to like 21. So I'm sure she's doing the thing where she thinks it's impressive to have killed more people. So I think she's definitely heightening that number. But I would definitely argue that she's probably, I think she's killed more people. I don't think she's killed 21 people. And then her brother

felt like it was nine people. So there's definitely something within that. So yeah, no one knows for sure. Yeah, it's definitely weird. But I definitely urge you to go watch that documentary. I definitely urge you to go buy that book where the monster's hide. It's got like, it's packed with details. So if I missed anything, you can check it out in there. And yeah, I definitely urge you to go watch Big Bird's lie detector test on YouTube. Oh, yes. I can't forget that.

That can be your, you're just delivering palette cleansers now, like two people's doors, so you're like, I'm gonna tell you what to do for your palette cleansers. You need to see. After this episode, if you need to pick me up, go watch that. There you go, there's back with the cleansers. And guys, we hope that you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. Oh my god, I'm so glad that I didn't have to do that alone,

but not so weird that you am chop somebody up and you serve them out of barbecue and you run a crowd, I'm so glad that I didn't have to do that alone, but not so weird that you want to chop somebody up and you serve them out of barbecue and you run a crowd, I don't even know. Just don't keep you guys playing. Don't do that, because it's just too much for my life. Bye. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash

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