Morbid - Episode 358: Gerard John Schaefer "The Hangman"

Episode Date: August 29, 2022

Alaina is back and scarier than ever, like seriously hold the scary spice, lady. Today she brings us the case of Gerard John Schaefer who killed an estimated 34 young women. He used his power and one time status as a police officer to lure these young girls into “going away” with him on some kind of great adventure but would then bring them into the woods and do some of the the most unimaginable and depraved things before brutally murdering them. Unfortunately many of his victims have yet to be found.Check out these great sources!American Ripper by Patrick KendrickMost Notorious Episode 193 with Patrick KendrickImageSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey, you weirdos, I'm Alena. And I'm Ash. And this is morbid. Oh my God, it is. I'm back. Do you have a brand new wrap? No. I just have scars that will forever be with me from Storyland and New Hampshire. Yeah, I actually do not blame you whatsoever. Yeah, it was a real experience. The kids loved it. Well, part of the kids loved it.

So that's really all that matters and we got through it and we did it. We did it. We did it. So now we did it. He lives just on the tail. We did it. So now we did it. I think I went to Story Land once when I was little, if I remember correctly, and then I just blocked it all out of my brain because I don't remember anything about it. That's the thing. Kids love it.

So yeah. It's one of those, and you know what we had, we got to like, you know, hang out with Deb Deb. Deb Deb in Pat, her husband, and other kids. Deb Deb in Pat Pat. So that was nice, but it was real. It was real experience at Storyland. Anybody in the New England area can probably relate to this like just feeling of like, wow, okay.

That's what that is. One of your kids before you were going, you like wanted me to come. They were like, T.T. why are you going? And I go, I told them that you can't go to Storyland unless you have children. Which is, I mean, probably true. I mean, next I was like, sorry, I can't go. I don't have kids.

I don't think you lied too much on that one. She was like, what? I was like, yeah, it's just the way it is. Yeah, whatever. I can't. So we're not going to do a whole bunch of chitchatting before we get into the case today, because this is going to be a very long episode. Ooh, I was gonna...

She's back. Yeah, I'm back and I was gonna split it into two, but there's really no good way to split this into two and I didn't want to just split it into two because it was long for the sake of doing it, so... Buckle up. It's just gonna be a long one because I think continuity makes more sense here. This is a wild case from the 70s. Ooh.

So I brought it a little more, I love how the 70s. I'm like, they're modern, you know? I mean, I don't, they're not like that long ago. Quite a long time ago at this point, but it always feels like it was only like 20 years ago. Yeah. Was it 40 now? No.

I thought he like, who am I? Who am I? Who am I? Sierra notes like a lot. How many? No, it is 40. It's a 40. Yeah, it's going on 43.

There you go. So 43 years, that's a lot. That's a whole person. So that's a person who's lived. It's not me yet, Sue. But you know, almost John. Almost John. But yeah, so this is from the 70s.

What's crazy about this case, we're gonna be talking about Gerard John's Shaffer, who is known as the Killer Cop or the Hangman. I had maybe heard his name or come across it, maybe in like the annals of some true crime book that I had read like a million years ago. Yeah. But I did not know anything about this.

I haven't heard of it. I saw like a blurb about a tree and I was like, oh, that's interesting. I'm just going to look at it. Holy shit. He is worse than most we have talked about. Oh, good. It's wild to me.

And I don't know how we don't know his name. Which I guess is probably good, that like, yeah, that he didn't become infamous. Because we don't want them, that's the thing we don't want them, like becoming these famous things. But like, the fact that I didn't know about this is like wild, because it's a really, really scary story.

Well, and what's sad is that we should know about it, because if he was so horrible, then we should know what happened to the people he was seeing. That's the thing and these were. These victims really, a lot of them and their families didn't even get the closure that they really, not that you really get closure, but they didn't get, and a lot of the information they needed. Yeah, because it's this, right?

Yeah, and there's a lot of missing girls and women attributed to him and it was never really solidly closed. Like a few of them definitely got, like he was convicted of a couple, but like a lot of them just hung out there and it's kinda sad because at the time the police were just kinda like, well, we got him for these ones. So, and it's like, yeah, but like he needs to pay

for the other ones too. Like, yeah, we can't just be like, well, yeah, like, you know, we got him for those, so it's fine. And it should be on record so that the family is gonna say like, yeah, we can't just be like, well, yeah, like, you know, we got him for those, so it's fine. And it should be on record so that the family can say, like, yeah, this is what happened. Exactly. He's in prison and we know who did it. He should be punished for all of them.

This is a really, really, gnarly one. I just want to say it right out front. There's going to be some really rough stuff we're going to talk about. He is a full on monster. so I buckle up because this is really, really, really bad. I'm gonna move my therapy appointment up this week. Yeah, you probably should. Now, he was only convicted of two murders in the end, but he has definitely committed several more. Like they know he has. He said two. he was only convicted of two. All right. So I get. But he committed several more.

All of them are more horrific than any fiction could ever conjure. Like it is horrific stuff. And I say that we definitely know he committed several others because there's literally physical evidence that was found in his home, in his mother's home, like he had physical evidence connected to these victims, and his own thinly veiled confessions that he actually said were just fiction stories. But somehow they line up almost perfectly with crime scenes, uses actual victim names in some of them, and he just said, no, it's just fiction.

I just write. I'm just a brilliant writer. And it just so happens that as I'm writing these terrible things happen. Yeah, it's just crazy. It's just a weird coincidence. And somehow I'm being convicted because I'm an amazing writer.

What a dope. Yeah, he's a real dope. Is that a fun one? I haven't used that in a while. It is a fun one. And it's perfectly perfect to describe him as a dope. Another crazy thing about him is at one point he was a police officer. Yeah, because so. And it's perfectly perfect to describe him as a dope. Another crazy thing about him is at one point he was a police officer.

Yeah, because so, and this takes place in Florida and he was a police officer, not for too long there, but he definitely used his position for some really heinous things. Now we're just going to talk about him briefly as a younger person because it's kind of interesting to see where he came from. He was born March 25th, 1946 in Wisconsin. He was born to Doris and Gerard John Schaefer, senior. Now he was the oldest of three children. He was the only boy. His father was a traveling salesman. He was gone a lot. And it was really just like him and his mom and his sisters.

His dad was also a big drinker, wasn't a super happy family, but he also is a compulsive liar, and he's also just like an asshole of the highest order. So it's hard to tell. So it's hard to tell, he tries to make his life look a lot different than it is. He will, all at once, confess to what he's done

and then go, what are you talking about? I've never killed anybody. He's just like, he's a dick. He's just a dick. And he likes to say that he was like an illegitimate child. Quote unquote, like he'll say, my mom got pregnant with me and they had, they were forced to get married. So that's why they were a horribly horrible relationship

because it was started that way. OK. But that's one not even corroborated and two, let's shut the fuck up. Yeah, like that doesn't make you, that doesn't turn you into like a bad person. Now, he liked to spout a lot about how his family and his family was very religious.

They were very Catholic family. But he spouted a lot about how they really hammered into him that Madonna Horde dichotomy thing with women, which is a very unhealthy thing, no matter what, that is not a good thing to teach your children that women are either Madonna or Horde. Like those are not, that's not good. Madonna's like Mary Magdalene.

It's like you were asking the wrong way. All I know is Madonna is a good thing. Horde is taught to be like you are either this or you are this. And that is it. When you said Madonna, first I was like, Madonna. Madonna. You were thinking Madonna.

I really love that. Yes, like, you know, material girl. And then I was like, oh. Yeah, no. I honestly can't tell you exactly like the Madonna. I think that's like, I think she's Mary. I don't know. I think that's Mary.

Yeah, because if Madonna is good, Mary, Mary, I think her's like, I think she's Mary. I don't know. I think that's Mary. Yeah, because if Mary Magdalene and Mary Mary, I think her two, guys, I'm not really just, I don't know what I apologize. It's Mary. And I'm not saying like, I just don't know, so I don't want to say it. But I know that the Madonna is like the good thing and you know, the other is the bad thing.

Yeah, that's it. And when that's taught, it's a very unhealthy way to teach your child to look at women, basically. Now, that was happening in that house, that obviously doesn't create a serial killer, but he likes to point to it and he likes to be like, well, no, that's wise. And then he's like, but I didn't kill anybody.

So it's whatever. And you're like, oh, okay, kill anybody. Stuffed Alvia did. Very healthy. So the family moved a lot because of his dad's work and they moved to Nashville, Tennessee for a while and then they ended up living in Atlanta for a few years. So they were like rolling around the country. Now by 1960, his family had settled down in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Now his father may not have been home often, and you know, he has a lot of shitty things to say about his dad, but when he was home, he said

that they liked, he would take him fishing and hunting, they liked to be outside together a lot. So there was like good times here. Now, I want to point out that a book that I found on this case that I devoured, but it's got a lot of stuff. It's just so you know, it's a very harrowing journey, but it is worth it in my opinion, if you were looking to just know this case. It's called American Ripper by Patrick Kendrick,

which I thought was interesting because I just went off with Jack the Ripper and I didn't even mean to do this. You're in a place. I'm in a place apparently. So Patrick Kendrick did a phenomenal job researching this case, he did it for decades. I mean, he like spoke to people and the like,

that book has interviews on interviews on interviews. It has his writings and it has everything and so much that I'm not even gonna touch upon and I telling you go get that book, go get that book, it's outrageous. And I think Patrick Kendrick has been on a few different like podcasts and stuff too. So if you type his name and go listen to some of those, I think one of them is called like notorious, the podcast. Oh, I've heard of that. And they did a really great job like talking to, and it's just really interesting.

So go check those out after this, because I'm telling you his book is outrageously horrifying, but outrageously fascinating. All right. So American Ripper by Patrick Kendrick, I will link it in the show notes. Now, according to that book, kids who knew Gerard in middle school and high school

said he was pretty unremarkable. Like, he just they weren't like, oh that guy, you know, but they were just kind of like, oh that guy, okay. Yeah. Not a not a complete loner, although some people would describe him as a loner, but he wasn't a popular kid, he wasn't a jock, he wasn't a theater kid. He was just there. And it was noted also though that he liked to date a lot of different girls, though people then said he only dated two girls of high school. So I don't know if he was just showing a different side to different people or if people are just like, I don't remember him, so I'm just going to make something up about him.

Yeah. But one thing that many of them said was that he definitely was creepy, and he liked to look under girl skirts. All right, so there you have it. Yep, one classmate is quoted as saying in an article that I read, quote, the only thing I really remember is that I always had to tuck my skirt under my legs because John, they called him John.

John would practically stand on his head to look up a girl skirt. She's a scryst. He's a pig, everybody. And you probably could only wear skirts back that two at school, I'm sure. Everyone was wearing skirts back then, and he was just a disgusting hog about it. Ew.

Now, in an article from the Palm Beach Post in 1973, a lot of his classmates were interviewed from high school. One of them named Eloise said, quote, he was kind of weird. That's all I can say about him. He was kind of out of it, never part of a group. He was the last boy I would have dated. I didn't like him.

I don't know why. He was just weird. That's all. No, you probably heard some rumors, Eloise. And then Donna, another classmate said, quote, he was a loner, not part of any click. He would do strange things like he would be sitting in class and like, all of a sudden he would start talking to himself.

Hmm. So it's a very interesting, like, hearing the cross section of people talking about him, because a lot of people had a lot of different views. Yeah, very, very many things here. Yeah, like no one said he was this popular kid or this outgoing kid, but there's all these varying degrees of like, he was strange as

fuck, he was a creep, he was a loner, he wasn't really a loner, I didn't really know who he was. It seems like it just depended like what face he wanted to show you. Exactly. Which is think was a nice theme he took through life. Now during this time in Fort Lauderdale, he was neighbors to a girl named Lee Haanline. He had said that they were like friendly, they used to play sports together a little bit, but he also would tell people that he was pissed because she would tease him by undressing in front of her windows.

Like it was for him. Like her undressing in her room was like taunting him. No, I think she's just on her own property doing her own things. Pretty sure. Now this name, Lee Hainline, is going to come back later. No. So I want you to remember it.

I don't want it too. According to that Patrick Kendrick book, her mother later said of Gerard or John, I never cared for the boy. He did foolish things. One time he, in Gary, which was Lee's brother, went fishing out on the ocean and shaffer through away the ors.

The boy's finally drifted in with the tide. You never knew where he was. He was sneaky. He sort of dropped by all the time. Yeah. He would also kill animals that you can't eat. Like, he would just do it for fun. What?

And it was noted by a classmate that he would kill things like a songbird. Just for the hell of it. No, I love, I'm in a place now where I fucking love birds. Birds are pretty rad. I've probably sat on this podcast before that I don't like birds. All of a sudden I do like birds.

She's gross. And yeah, she's evolution. She is. She loves birds. She loves birds. She loves a songbird. She loves a songbird. Now, quick, large trigger warning for what I'm about to say, because it involves animal cruelty.

Eek. He was also known to many to kill cows, oftentimes to capitating them, and then he would derive pleasure from their corpses. I don't think I want to be here anymore. Yep. I think that I have. You don't want to be here. It's a place to go. It's not great.

Bye. Now around this time, he told his, I'm sorry, I'm using like now to start all my sentences. That's one of those crutch things that happens for when you know what when you catch it you catch it I was doing that the other week. I wonder if I gave it to you. You know what though? It's better than so it is You know it watch. I'll start saying so now Well Oh

Look at me. I'm well. No around. Oh there's well well around this time He told his high school girlfriend, Sandra London, who some of you might know that name. She's like a true crime kind of like people know that name. She got involved with a lot of serial killers. This was his high school girlfriend though, Sandra London. Maybe that's what inspired it all. He told her that he, out of the blue, he was like,

you know what, sometimes I just like really want to hurt people. And she was like, wow, okay. And he was like, I want to hurt women. And she was like, okay, as a woman, that's a little little frightening. I think we should break up. Yeah. So he also later told his college teacher who was a woman, this as well, like confided that in her.

Now, to me, and they both were like, it's weird that he just told us this. Yeah. But to me, that's purely to scare them and exert power. Like that's him exerting power. Then being, you know, he liked that he basically put women in line by revealing this secret to them. Because that way, they knew that he was capable

of hurting them and he was willing to hurt them. Right. If they should fall out of his favor or graces. Yeah. So that was him being like, wow, I really want to hurt women. Just so you know. So don't fuck with me. Yeah, I could see that.

And his whole life is just this struggle for power, the struggle to be legitimate as a human being. It's, and he's not. Oh girl, let's talk about America's number one meal kit. Listen up, folks everywhere. With HelloFresh, you got farm fresh, pre-portioned ingredients. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill?

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and then they tasted so primo, so delicious. Hello fresh is also super easy to make, and me and Drew have so much fun in the kitchen together. He gets out all the stuff, like it tells you exactly what pans and the prep kind of stuff you need to take out. Drew takes care of that, and sometimes I do like the chopping for me,

and I do like the really cooking part. It's just like a cute little thing you can do for date night. But when we had that, that P.K. and Crusted Trial, I was like, look at this thing, You know what I'm saying? It was so good. Go to HelloFresh.com slash morbid16 and use code morbid16 for 16 free meals across seven boxes and three free gifts. Again that's HelloFresh.com slash morbid16 and use code morbid16 for 16 free meals across seven boxes and three free gifts. America's number one meal kit. So, Sheifer graduated high school in 1964,

and he used this, he apparently used his entire summer acting as a quote, nature guide in the Everglades. I would not want him to be my nature guide. Yeah, I guess like he wasn't an actual certified nature guide, he was just doing it. He also started classes at Broward, Jr. College. He was a social studies major, but he eventually changed majors like several times and he landed on education because he decided he wanted to be a teacher.

No, you should not be a teacher. He had a weird college career. Like he took a ton of classes every semester and Patrick Kendurkets into this in the book a lot that he did this like very distinct pattern where he would overload his course list like way overload it. And then he would just start struggling and drop a shit ton of them. But he did it like over and over and over and over. Like he never learned why that that wasn't going to work. It was like competitive with himself. It was more, yeah, it was competitive, which he becomes competitive

against other serial killers later in his life, by the way. Because he's an Ares. Oh no, that's not to that. John's an Ares. John's competitive. He is competitive. But in like a, not in a killing, not in a single serial killer way, though, thankfully.

But yeah, he would do this and he'd, he is competitive and he likes to feel powerful. So I think and like, like he has something over everybody's, I think he's like, yeah, I can take all these classes like fuck you. I can do this. And then he's like, I can't. Right. Fuck you.

I'll do it again. Like, he's just an idiot. He's just confused. He's dumb. He's a lot. And he wanted to come off intelligence so badly. But I feel like that's the case for the lot of serial killers. He wanted to be that like Hannah Belector kind of thing and he was not.

He wanted to have like some kind of like validation. He wanted something and he didn't have anything. Now then in 1968 he managed to transfer to Florida Atlantic University in Bokariton. But we're going to get back to his Broward Junior College days at one point. In 1968, the same year, he married Martha Fog, but it was a very short relationship, to, you know, say the least. And the beginning was fine,

like whatever, very sweet relationship where they bonded over creative writing because he also took a lot of creative writing classes. He enjoyed writing, unfortunately, what he writes is horrific and something nobody ever wants to read. You know, he would drive her to school. They were just like, they was like one of those little cute college relationships. Yeah, like, oh, adorable. We liked to write things together. And then Gerard kind of showed who he really was to her.

And he kind of started telling her about his weird fantasies that he had because he enjoyed like putting himself into bondage. It was very BTK. He would take pictures, that kind of thing. And she was like, I'm good. And he later said that they were very incompatible sexually. And basically he suggested to her, he said that he told her,

quote, put out or get out. I would say, get fucked. I'm a get out. See you later. During this time, he had also, he became kind of like, he was struggling. He was struggling in his classes. He was struggling, you know, his home life wasn't that great. He was just having a lot going on and he was starting to get like a little depressed, a little, I think he was struggling. He was struggling in his classes. He was struggling, you know. His home life wasn't that great. He was just having a lot going on and he was struggling.

He got a little depressed, a little. I think he was struggling with who he was as a person because I think he could probably tell that he was a fucked up human and that he was into some stuff that people probably weren't going to be into and that he was kind of scaring people around him. And I'm not saying that he was very self-reflective in the way of like maybe I should change things, but instead he started trying to get like attention because like psychologists look back at it, and he you know left a suicide note at one place, but they were like he never intended to kill himself. Yeah, he was doing it because he thought it would bring a different kind of attention.

Like his personality type was not one to this wasn't what he was doing. His personality type is so confusing. Outrageous. Now, during this time, there was a suicide note that was found written by him. And his, he was going to therapy at the time. And his therapist referred him to see a psychiatrist. And the psychiatrist, a psychiatrist was Dr. R. R. McCormick. This is the report that he wrote about him when he saw him. And again, this was after the marriage had crumbles like it was bad news. It says, quote, this examiner was able to hold John's attention and cooperation through approximately two and one half hours of testing. Report was excellent and the testing results are prolific in psychodynamic information.

These results are consistent and indicate that John is immature, has poor ego control, is aggressive and rebellious, and primarily has an intense father conflict. In addition, his personality dynamics incline him to blame others for his own difficulties, which is exactly what this was. He thinks the whole world is against him, but it's really him fucking with the world. He's extremely confused in terms of self-image and is alienated from himself and others.

However, he does have a capacity to relate to others and is approachable in a therapeutic relationship. At this point, John's own resources are not sufficient for a solution to his problems, and he is in need of supportive therapy, which will, and meller, I can never say that word, basically get rid of the severity of his symptoms on it. This examiner does not find any indication of excessive depressant, which might indicate suicidal tendencies. It is felt that a character or logical neurosis, with a paranoid trait overlay, are more descriptive of his personality structure.

In addition, Bender Gestalt revealed preservation of the fundamental outstanding Gestalt principle by the use of the primitive loop as a unit symbol. This is indicative of decreased ego control and of impairment in reality testing, which is often found among psychotics or individuals with intercranial pathology. You know what? That is exactly what I would have said too. That's exactly what you would have said. That's what I was thinking this whole time. So they're basically saying, you know,

he's confused about himself. He doesn't understand who he is. He doesn't understand the things he likes. He doesn't understand his own strange pathologies. He is aggressive. He has poor ego control. He thinks he's great. But then in the next control, he thinks he's great, but then in the next second he thinks he's terrible.

He's rebellious, he has this weird father thing, that's got like a father complex, he alienates some others, but at times he can be very charming and like bring others into him. Basically they're saying he's not actually depressed, he just kind of is mimicking this depression, and he doesn't actually have suicidal tendencies, he's not actually depressed. He just kind of is mimicking this depression. And he doesn't actually have suicidal tendencies. He's just looking for the attention here. Okay. So he went to see a doctor Charles W. Long

for some more treatment around this time. And things started going better. Like he was starting to feel a little more like together. So he applied for a teaching fellowship. Because he was like, you know what? I'm gonna get with my professional shit. I want to be a teacher. At the end of 1969, he started work at plantation, plantation

high school in Florida. And he started teaching social studies. And this was a fellowship. This was not him being like an actual like full blown teacher. Yeah, just no. Now just as he started working, his parents divorced after 22 years. Oh, shit. Yeah. And you know, he didn't take, I mean, who would take that like, but you know,

you know, you know, you're not taking it well. Now, on the divorce papers, for his parents, his mom cited, for the reason, extreme cruelty, chronic drunkenness and adultery. Oh, shit. So shit was going down in that house. And he had, I mean, extreme cruelty, that means heness, and adultery. Oh shit. So shit was going down in that house. And he had, I mean, extreme cruelty.

That means he had seen the show. Yeah, that means he had seen some stuff. At this time, his father also entered rehab for alcoholism. Okay. So there was a lot going on. This is, so we're going to go back to, he was still taking classes at Broward, Junior College, which is what I talked about

before. Right. He was also taking a little bit of part time, like, teaching assistant hours there. So he was like kind of a TA to some of the teachers. In December of that year, a woman connected to him went missing under suspicious circumstances. Yes, because he did it, right? He definitely did. Mm. Her name was Carmen Hallock. She was 22 years old. She worked as a waitress and was said to have been stunningly beautiful. She had Auburn Hare, which is important later. And she was single in living in an apartment

with a new puppy at the time. Oh, she told friends in the days leading up to her disappearance that she had been offered a really well-paying government job. And it was going to be working with undercover narcotics agents. So she was gonna be coming like an undercover kind of informant. Okay.

This was, she said this was gonna allow her to travel to all these amazing places, like these island places and everywhere. You know, it's gonna be great. And everyone she told, everyone she was telling this to was like, that sounds a little shady. Yeah.

And she was like, and I guess she told a bunch of people like, eh, what do I have to lose? Like, I'm 22, I don't care. Well, not any, whatever. I get that. And she's like, sounds cool. If it works, it works. But if it doesn't, it doesn't.

Like, she never expected this to happen. Exactly. And people were like, who brought this up to you? And she claimed it was a teacher at Broward, Junior College. I bet it was. And Gerard Schaefer happened to be a teaching assistant there. They also were proven the two of them

to have taken at least one class together at the time. Okay. So they definitely knew who each other was. Right. And there's more connections to her later. And this is a junior college too, so the value of a lot smaller. Exactly.

She was said to have had dinner out with a mystery man in the days leading up to her disappearance as well. It was last seen on December 18, 1969 by her friend Nancy Bauer. Nancy had invited Carmen to spend Christmas with her, like some of the Christmas time, and she had accepted, but she never showed. Oh, that's sad. And Nancy got really worried, so she went to her apartment and found the door was wide open. A bath was full, like it had been drawn but and ready to use. Her purse was still there, her car was founded in nearby park and her puppy was still in the apartment. Thank you.

And it appeared to be starving and dirty, like it had been alone for days. At least days. Like she was like, I went in there and it was just so happy to see me. Oh. Don't worry, she took the there and it was just so happy to see me. Oh. Don't worry, she took the puppy and took care of it. Also, what a good puppy staying in the apartment. It was a storm wider than me all the time. Now, a missing person's report was filed immediately. Remember, and this kind of just like went about the wayside,

remember her name, Carmen Hallock. The same time period, another girl went missing. You may remember this name. Lee Haanline. I do, the neighbor. At the time, now again, like Ash said, she was the neighbor. Yes. She was the neighbor that he said he used to taunt him by getting undressed in her own bedroom.

By living her life in her own home. Now, at this time, she was married and her name was Lee Bonnadees. Yes, again, it is that Lee. Now, Carmen's friend, Lucille Cardone, told Carmen Halik, told investigators later that she had seen Carmen with Lee. So, Carmen and Lee knew each other. Oh, weird connection. And she had seen them together out at like a diner or something like that. It was shortly before their disappearances. And this was in like September, I think Lee went missing in September before

Carmen. So they were friends and Lee was blonde and 25 years old. What we're going to see later is that he had a pattern of going after pairs of women. And usually they were dark hair light hair. Oh, yeah. Weird. I know. It's horrific. Do you think it's like a yin yang thing? I don't know. I think he just does it. Did he ever talk about why? No, because he didn't kill anybody. Oh, right.

You just heard it. He just wrote. Yeah. He's a lot. So she was married at the time only less than a month when she went missing. Oh. And when she went missing, she was married to a man named Charles Bonnadees. Interestingly, evidence was found

that showed that Gerard John Schaeffer and Lee had spoken the day of her disappearance. Ooh. Because they remained like they knew who each other was. They were friendly when they were younger. This all stayed the same. They were in the same area for La Rdaille. They had spoken the day of her disappearance

and he later admitted this, said that they spoke, said that she had asked him to drive her to the airport for something but then sent to telegram later that canceled that, but they never found the telegram. It was all very ridiculous. She had left a note for her husband that day saying she was going to Miami, which was in that far away, and would be back later, but she never returned. There is a lot of weirdness surrounding her case that doesn't really have a place right here. But in the book, like Patrick Kendrick's book,

he goes really far into it. I'm telling you, go read it because it's just like a wild goose chase in there. Like that kind of goes off to the side in this weird, strange area involving like the FBI and like fake FBI agents and stuff, it's crazy. But definitely go read that book because it's crazy. But again, remember Lee still.

Okay. Continue to remember her. We have now Carmen who has gone missing. We have Lee who has already connected him that has gone missing. And now we know that Carmen was at least in a class with him. Right. And said she had this weird government job that she was going to get that offer to her by teacher. A teacher at the, yeah.

Yeah. Or like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You got it. So around this time too, Gerard was let go from his first teaching job at that high school. And it was after he got some subpar evaluations about his teaching skills.

All right. One of the things they wrote was that he put on the bulletin, it said, Vito the non-intercourse act, which was apparently something that was going through like, you know, Congress or whatever, but he wrote it there for high school students. And then the second one was he explains to class how he evaded the draft.

OK. OK. I mean, helpful. I mean, sure. He also, it says lack of cooperation and not accepting advice from his superiors. There was also phone calls from parents that he did not have a proper influence on students,

and they were getting worried. And he said, so they brought all this to him and were like, you're not doing great and parents are not happy with it and we are not happy. He was like, well, I have a right to express my opinions. It's like to an extent, my dude. Yeah, like to an extent. But also not at the same time. But he also then said he does not intend to teach.

Then he was there to share his opinions with them. And they were like, well, then you can't work here. You can't do that. Like you have to teach them. You can't just hang out and tell people things. And then the last thing they wrote on the evaluation was that he told kids that George Washington smoked pot. I mean, that's kind of funny, but if he wasn't such a piece of shit. Exactly. So at this time, Martha officially filed for divorce. They had separated a while ago. I've just said George Washington didn't know. Martha was like, my man George, I am Martha Washington did not.

She filed for divorce in May 1970. She also cited extreme cruelty. Oh, yep. She refused after this to speak about the marriage or what led to the divorce. Oh, that she would not speak through it. Because that I feel like that just means she couldn't go through talking about it. Yeah, it seemed like it was not great. Yeah, no. The same year, he got another teaching fellowship. I always love how these kind of people just keep on getting jobs. Yeah, because it's like nobody checks up on their references.

But then people who are like really strong candidates for jobs and really would be good at those jobs get passed over for these kind of dicks. They make no sense. So he got another teaching fellowship at Strandahan High School in Fort Lauderdale. He was terrible at it as well. He's, I don't know if you guys have noticed, but teaching is not his forte. It's just their to share opinions, guys. He's not there to teach. He's there to share his opinions. He would leave class and just like not show back up. And he would not come to any of the teacher meetings. He's an ideal teacher. Didn't think he was a shitty at his job. And he got really bad evaluations there too. One of them said he was too defensive to evaluate.

Oh, wow. One said, students seems to have a severe inferiority or the inferiority complex. There we go. Demonstrating the classic defense mechanism of superiority evidenced by authoritative dictatorial approach. Awesome. Yeah. So basically, he's a dick. He has an authority complex. Like, so basically he's a dick.

He has an authority complex, like he thinks he's like above everybody. That's who he is for his whole life. Love. The second time Super that he got fired from this job, his supervisor was Richard Goodheart. And he said, quote, Holy shit. that he'd better never let me hear of his trying to get a job with any authority over other people, or I do anything I could to prevent it. Holy shit. So his supervisor, Richard Goodhart, knew exactly who he was.

And he knew exactly why John or Gerard, whatever you want to... I hate calling him John because John... I know. ...understandable. It's exactly what Gerard was after. He went after every job that let him have power over people. He didn't want to become a teacher. He wanted to become a teacher because he wanted

to hold power over a bunch of students. And we see that he ends up wanting to become, which I'm going to talk about in a second. He wants to become like a priest at one point because people have to listen to that's power. He becomes a police officer, that's power. He always wanted to hold that kind of power. He became very obsessed over this time

with capital punishment, which I get it. It's a fascinating thing. But when you put it into the perspective, when you put it was doing this person and when you find out how he was obsessed with it, it's worse. Like I understand being fascinated with the idea that we like legally kill people. Like that is a very interesting thing to research and just like, wow, just like the arguments

on both sides and everything. Exactly. Like that's what's interesting. There's a lot of interest to be had with like how people think about it and all that, that would be normal. Yeah. But he was really into hanging. And he wanted to know everything about what happened

when a body was hanged. Okay. Yep. Now remember, one of his nicknames is the hang man. I want everybody to remember that. I forgot that. Yep. Obviously, when you put this next to that, it gets worse.

It's just, it's not okay. It's not an okay interest. While going through this beginning phase of like being obsessed with hanging and starting to get into what that's all about, he wrote to several publishing companies claiming to be a research assistant for various colleges. He was lying. In order to gain access to details about what happened when people died.

What the fuck? He was particularly interested in, and this is really gross, guys. He was particularly interested in what happened when people would urinate or defecate when they hung. He seemed very fascinated by that. And that remains something that he derives a lot of pleasure in knowing about. And witnessing himself.

He is so bad. Like he's so bad. I have no idea how more people don't know about him. Now this is when he decided he wanted to become a priest. So he tried to become a priest. So he tried to become a priest at St. John's seminary, but he was turned away because they said that he did not have enough faith. I think they had a feeling. I like that they used that you do not have enough faith line because I was like, good for you instead of just being like he's creep. You're a fucking creep

and no, you can't. They can't say that. No, you cannot. In interviews, he later said he was not, he know what, he wasn't of the Catholic church after that. Because he said, he dug deeper into it after that. And he said, they didn't allow you to question the dogma of it all. And he was a seeker, guys. You know, it derives a seeker of knowledge. That's who he is.

He's so intelligent. He's just always trying to learn. This guy on the quidditch. And he said, according to him, he's very sensitive. And when he would learn things about the Catholic face, he was like, I just had to ask. So I would go up to a priest and I'd be like, what's all about?

And in one of his interviews, that's literally how he talks sometime, like just what? What? I don't like it at all. And in one of his interviews, he says that he's like, I would walk up to a priest and I'd be like, this virgin Mary stuff, how's that possible? And then he's like, and the priest is like,

why are you being here? And he was like, I don't think that's what it was. I don't think that you came up to a priest and was like, what's with this virgin Mary stuff? And he was like, get out, son. I think he was probably like, you're weird. Get pleased with me. And he was probably like, you're being disrespectful.

Like, you want to be here or you don't want to be here. They probably sense who you were. I feel like a lot of people around you sense who you were, but then the wrong people didn't sense who you were. And they hired you to become a police officer. I think that's what happened. So he worked for a while as a security guard,

because then again, power, authority. He worked for the Wackenhut Corporation, which I think you've probably seen like, that's still a thing. And while he was doing this, he met a young woman named Teresa Dean, who worked at the Oconaway grocery store. Oh, right.

She was a cashier. They flirted often, and it was like this thing where he would like, go through a line and be like, hey there, and she was like, hey there, and then they started dating, because she didn't know. I want to love them. And again, he's a security guard.

A lot of people, that gives you an immediate sense of security. He's a security guard, that's what he does. Now, he was already at this point saying, the next thing I want to do is I want to be a police officer. I'm already security guard, I got this little taste of it and I want the full shit. So I do wonder, just because of who Gerard is, I wonder if that whole thing when his supervisor

Richard Goodhart was like, you better not get any kind of job with authority that he was like, fuck you. I'm going to do it. I feel like he is that kind of person that if you do that, he's just going to push. Fightful. Yes. I feel like he is that kind of person that if you do that, he's just gonna push. Fightful, yeah. He's a spiteful piece of shit. So he applied to several departments

and was rejected by the Broward County Sheriff's Office after failing the psychological test. Do you remember the show on TLC? I do. Broward County, was it like Broward County women? Like, it was like, someone in police office or such a good show? Well, he could not get in there.

No, he failed the psychological test. But he did finally, and he failed a bunch, like he wasn't getting a job anywhere. So there was some good thoughts going around that people were like, I don't think you should have a gun. Great, and you would think that they would like look at the other departments that he had applied to. You would think, but then he got a job

with a very small department, and that might be why, because they were probably just like looking for people, and they probably didn't talk to the other ones as much. It was the Wilton Manor's police department. He went through the Broward County Police Academy to get here, and in September of 1971, he was on his way to becoming a full-fledged police officer. Oh, shit. Same year, he proposed to Teresa Dean, and they were married by September of 1971. No, Teresa. Teresa's story. There's not a lot about her, but what happens after his trial is really wild, so hang tight.

All right. Now, the police chief of that department, Bernard Scott, later said about his time at the department, quote, he used poor judgment, did dumb things. If he was sent to control traffic at an accident, John would wander into a store and buy a bag of potato chips. Are you kidding? Dumb things like that. And then he said, I'd put my uniform back on

and walk the streets myself before hiring a shaffer back. I love that he wanted these positions of power, but then I mean, like really did nothing with them. Yeah, like literally so, but I think that's what it was. He got the position of power, and then he utilized it in a way that he was like, well, I'm God now.

I can do whatever the fuck I want. I can go buy a bag of potato chips because who gives a fuck, I'm a police officer. That's how he felt. Like, he felt like he could just do whatever he wanted now. He was a teacher. I can do whatever the fuck I want. I'm in charge now.

Yeah. That's what he felt and it's like, no, dude, you still have to like, do the job. First of all, in second of all, you still have superiors. Yeah. You're not the headhunt show in any of these jobs. So, do you think that there was also just like an element of just being a lazy fuck?

And just, yeah, being a lazy fuck and being an idiot. Yeah. I think there was a lot of things working against here. XFBI agent, Robert Ressler, which people might recognize in that name, he says that Shaefer was disciplined for running female traffic violators through the department's computer, where he would get their information like their addresses, phone numbers, where they worked, and he would call them up and ask them out

if he thought they were cute. What the actual... And he got in trouble for it. Discipline. I would be like, you gotta go, sir. Like, just got disciplined. Didn't get fired. Which should have been an immediate get the fuck out

of here. You don't belong with a badge. Nope. And this power of being able to find all this information. Yeah. He was disciplined for it. No comment. Yeah. That sounds about right for the kind of person he is, especially. But then his superiors did this strange thing. But then his superiors did this strange thing. In March 1972, he got a commendation for his role in a drug bust. What? So it's like, he would do these things and he's talked about later like,

he would just go and get a bag of potato chips and like not do what he was supposed to do at a traffic stop, you know, like a construction site. He was an idiot. I would literally put the uniform on myself and come out of retirement and go on the streets over hiring him again. And then it's like, but then he gets a

commendation for drug bust. Right. So what is, and that's, it goes right back to who he was in high school. No one can pinpoint who he was. If yeah, that's the thing. He's what, he's a dichotomy of a human being at all times.

That's, yeah. And I wonder too if it was one of those things like he got that, is it a commendation? A commendation, yeah. I think I wonder if he got that just because like he happened to be there with some other officers and like they got it. You know how you can exactly.

Exactly. Right, it's a very strange thing with him and like a very strange pattern with him though. But like people have these thoughts about him that are very conflicting at times and it's like I think he just was able to show who like what he wanted at any given time. But I think he might have had some gemini. He feels very Gemini. Yeah, and when you see how he was able to convince you know his victims to When you see how he was able to convince his victims to trust him, one, he was able to do it with a badge. I mean, he had the uniform on.

That was his easiest way of doing it. But two, he could act like a charming person. And I say he couldn't be a charming person. He could act like one. Well, Aries are very charismatic people. There you go. And he could come off as a very charismatic person sometimes. And then other times you're like, wow, you're a fucking weirdo.

Yeah. Look at his interviews and you're like, okay, I understand why some of these women were like, oh, he's harmless. Right, let's hang out. He's chit chat and it's fine. We can just sit here and shoot the shit. But then you see him turn and you're like, oh, like there it is. That's the scary part.

Now, after this drug bust, like one month later in April, he was fired. That's what makes me feel like he was just there. That's the thing, and I'm like, what the fuck? I think it was a right place, right time kind of moments. They were like, bye. Yeah, they were like, okay, see you later.

You got your accommodation. Now, he then in June 1972, so only what, like, A year later? Not even a year, a couple months. Okay. He got another job with another sheriff's department, the Martin County Sheriff's department. Now, again, this was June 1972.

This is when he did something terrible. This is when he did something terrible. This is when he got caught. Okay. On this day, July 21st, 1972, so right after he got the job with this new department, on this day, he picked up 17-year-old Pamela Wells an 18-year-old Nancy Trotter. They were hitchhiking on the highway.

It was the 70s. Yeah. Literally everybody was doing it. Pamela was known to her friends and those close to her as Sue. So Sue Wells is who she was known. And she was from Texas. Her friend Nancy there was from Michigan and they were visiting Florida together. They actually didn't know each other before they set out. They met each other while hitchhiking. Oh, they just met up with each other. They were hitchhiking to Chicago and that's when they met and just really liked each other. And we're like, do you want to stick together?

Yeah. Which was like really cool. And smart. Exactly. And they quickly decided, you know what, let's spend our travel time together. Florida seems like a great place to go. Let's go together. We're just going to like welcome to being best friends. Like it's just, it's like a cool little story. They just were like, yeah, we're gonna be friends now. Now on this day, they were trying to get a ride along highway A1A. They had spent the day at Jensen Beach and had to get back to where they were staying.

Sheriff's deputy pulled up beside them. And at first, he told them, do you know it's illegal to hitchhike in this area? It was not. They were like, no, we had no idea. It was illegal. We wouldn't be doing it if we didn't, if we knew that. So he said, you know what? Why don't I drive you home myself? Like, I'll drive you guys home because you can't be hitchhiking out here. You're going to get in trouble. Right. Now, this was Gerard Schaeffer, who was 26 years old at the time.

He, and he even, at this point, this was so wild about him. He called the department, which is, this was something that they would do, police officers. I don't know if they do it now. I'm sure they do. They would call the department and say, hey, is it okay if I drive these two women home? Oh, yeah. This is where I am. So it's on record. So you're not just driving. It's smart. But he did it. Like, he did that protocol. Okay. And he took his time with Nancy and Sue, really got to know them, was chatting with them in the car, just being a real charismatic guy again. He's only 26 at this point. So he's not that much older than them. So he's telling them that, you know, his old stories of hitchhiking. He's like,

I used to do it too. You know, like, he's appealing to their youth, their sense of adventure. He's like, I get it. You just want to like, you know, ride with someone you don't even know and just go off into the wild blue yonder. I get it. Gross, just want to have fun. And they're like, absolute like, this guy's cool. Like, he's like, he's growing out.

It's they're growing out and he's like, they're like, great, he's a sheriff's deputy. We have somebody like, we can trust around here who can protect us. Oh. So he drops them off where they were staying. He brings them to where they were staying and then he says, they were like, yeah, you know, like we're he was like, what are you guys going to be doing tomorrow?

Like don't hitchhike again. And they were like, well, we want to go back to the beach, back to Jensen Beach. And she was, they were like, but, you know, we have no way to get there. Right. So he said, all right, if you guys want to go to the beach, I'll meet you and I'll give you a ride to the beach tomorrow so that you don't have to hitchhike. And they were saying, hey there, fellow podcast listener, it's Elena. And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services.

Whoa. You know, when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show Everyone was watching was about to come on well in 1999 that show was Buffy the vampire slayer in our podcast with Wondery the rewatcher buffy the vampire slayer We take it back to 1999 so get out your knee high boots and paste that poster of angel on the wall It It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Hey, you want to know?

Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action, and romance. Episode by episodes. Lazy. Follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Darn, eirni, eirni, eirni, eirni. Oh, wow!

Like, they were like, cool. We get like a fucking, we get like a escort to the beach. Like, this is great, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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He's got a real fucking car, he's got a real badge, he radioed into the station, the company was bringing you home. Right. If anything, if I was them, I'd be like, well, he's already got an on record that he brought us home. Exactly.

Why would he ever do something now? Yeah, I would never even think of it from a call. Never would have thought of it. He showed up somewhere between 9.15 and 9.30. They said when he showed up, he was wearing shorts and a plain shirt. He was not wearing his uniform. He was like, oh, it's my morning off.

So I'm just wearing my normal clothes. And he told them, you know, I'm going to take you to the beach. He was driving his light blue-slash green dazsinn that often was associated with him. Yep. He drove towards Jensen Beach. He was chatting with them. And then he says, oh, guys, you know what, can I take you to see this really cool thing? No.

And he said it's this like old Spanish fort near the river. It's not. And he's, they're like, okay, I'm sure. Like, he's doing something nice for us. We'll just let him know. And he's talking about how he loves history. And he's like, he's like, he's like, they're just like, oh, cool.

Exactly. And to him, this was like a performance. Like, he's like, I used to be a teacher. I love teaching. History's my thing. Social studies. I love it. Let me teach you about this.

It's just something fun. I want to show people. So they're like, all right. But instead, he drives them down a dirt road toward Hutchinson Island into a forest. No. And Sue's like, um, like, is this in here? And she was quoted as saying, I got worried

because he had told us the day before when he picked us up, not to tell anyone. You know, he emphasized it several times, not to tell anyone a policeman was taking us out there. I got worried when he turned down that road because it seemed awfully suspicious. Now you may note there, she was able to talk about it later. Yeah, I was going to say, but that I don't know, you were cruising with your story. I was going to say, go off.

So I'm going to give you this right now. They survived. Okay, so that is, they both of them survived. So you can at least go in there knowing that, but my God at what cost? He pulled into thick brush and there was this old rundown shed in the middle of like a swamp. Creepy. And they were like, is that it? And he was like, yeah, that's it.

And they were like, I don't think that's an old Spanish fort. I think that's just like an old rundown shed. Like, what the fuck is going on? Like, we can go to the beach now, right? And they're like, sitting there in the like, this is gross, and I don't know why we're here. And we just wanna go to the beach. Can you just bring us to the beach now?

Like, this is fun. And they put their fighter flight at this point. It was probably just like, Pee-ya thing. And they were saying like, he was telling them like, Oh yeah. And they were saying like he was telling them like all these things about the river and stuff, like basically, and they're just sitting there like, okay, dude, can you just bring us to the beach?

Like I don't want to be here anymore. That's getting pretty. So they get back in the car, and suddenly they said his entire attitude just completely changed. Like he had been telling them all these, and the river and this and this year, they did this, and this used to be the entrance for this. Then he sits down, suddenly he went like stone colds.

And they said he was suddenly super aggressive. The friendliness was completely gone. And out of nowhere, he says, you two ran away. You're runaways, and I know it. And they were like, where, like 17 and 18, like, no we're not. And what, like, they were like, what are you talking about? And he's like, I'm arresting you as runaways, out of nowhere.

And he handcuffs them both and puts them in the back of the car. Before explaining to them, do you know what I can do to you? I can sell you into slavery. What the fuck? And they were like, what? So he told, and then he's like, I can bury you out here. What the fuck? And they were like, what? So he told, and then he's like, I can bury you out here and no one would find you. And then he said to them,

there is no crime without a body. And they were like, shit. What the fuck is going on? And they were saying that they were thinking he was just an asshole. Like they were like, he's just, what the fuck is going on right now? I can't hop on a trip.

Their heads were probably like, I can't even comprehend what's happening right now. So, they were kind of calling his bluff. Like, they were kind of being like, all right, fucker. Like, you know, like, you're an idiot. Because they're just like, I don't know what's happening. Because I think they could also see that he was a fucking idiot.

Like, they were like, okay. So, they're like, okay, yeah, like, you're gonna sell us to people. Like, what are you talking about? Like, and I think one of them was like, okay, how much would I be? Like, literally, they were like, you, yeah, like you're gonna sell us to people. Like what are you talking about? Like, and I think one of them was like, okay, how much would I be? Like literally they're like, you're dumb. Yeah. And then he grabs out of his trunk pieces of rope

and pieces of sheet and he gags them both with the pieces of fabric. And they're like, now I'm starting to get freaked out. And he's tying them up, tying their legs, tying around their arms. They're freaking out. And he explained to them up, tying their legs, tying around their arms. They're freaking out. And he explained to them that if one of them tries to escape anything he does, he was going to kill the other.

Oh my God. So he goes, feel free. Feel free to run, but know that I'm going to kill your friend because you ran. And they were both, now remember, they, they adjusted and they didn't know each other forever. So they're, that's got to be a weird scenario where you're like, I really like this person and we're friends right now, and we've been trusting-

I wanna- I wanna- Fuck! Like, what am I supposed to- Right! Now I have this like, literal life, like commitment to this person that like, I have to die because of like, it's like- Yeah!

What- in their 17 and 18 years old, like, what a thing to have to comprehend in that moment? Too much, dude. And Nancy was said later, he took Sioux out in a field. He had my blanket, which he'd brought, which apparently they were bringing to the beach. And he put it on the ground. He made her sit on it and he tied her legs together.

And then he made another loop around her shoulders so that she was tied hand in foot, hand cuffed and gagged. Oh my God. I was scared then. I could have run away, but because, but I couldn't because he had soo there. So Nancy literally was like, I could have run and I, but I just couldn't, because he was going to hurt her. I'm like, yeah, that's a great thing, right?

Like you guys are great. He took Nancy to the river where there was this huge like banyan and mangrove tree sticking out of the water. And when the tide went out, the roots, like the huge, gnarly roots of these things, you can kind of picture them. They're the kind of trees you see in swamps and water, you know, with the gnarly roots that are just huge. They would become exposed when the tide would go out and it was out at this point. He made Nancy get up on one of those roots and balance

and he put a new surround her neck and looped the rope a few times around the branches of the tree so that if she fell or moved off the root at all, she would hang herself. What the fuck? He also tied rope around her knees and she said she just sobbed. She was sobbing and he was just smiling and then he just stood there and watched her cry.

That's so terrifying. He also molested her while she was in this position. And later she said, quote, and then he told me not to scream because he said, if I screamed, he'd come back and wrap the gag around me so tight, I would shit my pants. What the fuck? That's what he said to her. Because so he's fascinated by that. Yep, he told her he could rape her if he wanted to.

He was like, I could rape you right now if I want to. But then he just stared at her and then left. And she was like, so she has no idea what's happening. She doesn't know if he's going to kill Sue. She doesn't know if he's coming back. She doesn't know what the plan is. She knows that if she moves anywhere, she's hanging. Mm-hmm.

And so she spits the gag out of her mouth and started chewing on the knot in the news. Wow, smart. She said, quote, I finally turned around and fell against the branch where the other end of the rope was tied on. The rope was looser from my chewing on it and I could untie it with my hand behind my back.

I undid the knot myself, and then I got all the ropes off. I didn't take very long, maybe 10 or 15 minutes, but I still had handcuffs on. Wow, good for her. To do all of that handcuffs. She bit through the rope, loosened it up, so that she could move backwards, and untie the rope with hand-cuffed

hands. That's a bad bit, right there. Nancy. Nancy, final girl. Like you're energy. Right there. So she ran. She just ran.

And she said, she thought, which I'm like, that's brilliant, to take the ropes with her. Because she said, if I left them, maybe he could bind to me again if he finds me, but if I take them with me, maybe he doesn't have anymore. And I think, who would think that in that moment? That would think that. That's the thing, the things that people will think in these situations.

Yeah. You are just remarkable. I don't think I would have thought of that. No. That's brilliant. That is survival right there. I was sitting outside last night and heard a noise, and I was so terrified, I thought there was a murderer

in my backyard, and all I had next to me, I'm not, okay, actually, so what I thought I had next to me was only a bird feeder, and I was like, okay, I'll just take this bird feeder and hit them in the head with it, obviously. There was a mother fucking knife sitting on that table, and I missed it. I missed it. You. There was a mother fucking knife sitting on that table, and I missed it. I missed it.

You would just have used the bird feeder. I mean, it would have worked. But like, Nancy's, I gotta take these ropes with me. I was like, I guess I'll find a bird to take with me. Yeah, I guess all these are bird feeder around here that I can hit anybody. Let me take one of these roots, I guess I'll do. There you go, let me try to rip these up.

Like, wow. Well, she just started running. She just ran, she found the river, she got in the river. Now, wow. Well, she just started running. She just ran. She found the river. She got in the river. Now, by the way, there's like all kinds of scary shit in that river. There's like things that will sting you

and like, can paralyze you and shit. There's like, gnarly like crocodiles and shit. Like, there's bad shit there. Oh, I should've been there. Yeah. So she's waiting through it as fast as possible. Still handcuffed. Oh my God.

She heard someone call her name, and she's like freaking out, and she's like, it's a woman, like what the fuck? She hears it, and she realizes it's Sue calling her name. And she's like Sue is calling me. And then she said she had this moment where she was like, do I go to her? Or is he making her call my name to draw me out?

Like is this a trick? And so she says, she was like, you know what? I gotta keep going and then I'll come back for Sue because she's like, I can't have both of us go down. Like I gotta go get help. Yeah. And I can get help. So I have to get it.

Well, and then at least like she can give a description and somebody can hopefully help Sue. So she was like, I just kept going when she said was like the hardest thing ever. And that was Sue calling her, and Sue was not with Gerard Safer. Like she was actually calling her, but she understood it, like she got it.

She was like, you know what? She's like, you know what, she's free, she's running. Great, I'm gonna run to. So she's also handcuffed at this point. They both are handcuffed. Sue now watches Nancy go off across the river. So she made her way to the road. She actually like waited across the river,

made her way to the road, and she got the attention of a truck driver, which shout out to truck drivers. Like shout out to truck drivers. They are always there in a pinch. More bid. Always there. Truck drivers and supportive of truck drivers.

It's a truck driver. Supported by morebid. Hell yeah. So a truck driver helped her call the sheriff's department. And now sheriff's deputies are out looking for Nancy. And sorry, is this in the same jurisdiction as he was in? Like his police force? Yes.

Looking for them? Are you shit at least? Sure is. Now meanwhile, now that Nancy has made the hardest decision of her life to not go back to her friend and to just like, trudge on to try to get help, she hid in the bush, like in this huge bush area for hours with like snakes and spiders and bugs. She said like spiders were crawling over her.

Oh god. And then ended up swimming in the river with handcuffed hands. She swam through a school of jellyfish during this. God, stung twice while swimming. After her ordeal with handcuffs on. That's bad. And she kept going. She got up on the shore, completely exhausted,

and she just cried for cars to help her. Like, just like, I just didn't know what else to do. She was like, I was so beyond exhausted. Like, in every way. So a sheriff's deputy car pulled over and her immediate thought was like, oh my God, it's him. Like, luckily it was a real protector. You, the way you said it out,

you're like, no. Oh, fuck, no. Well, this was sheriff's Deputy Robert Lewis Crowder. He was the man who stopped, and he was sincerely there to help her. He had not originally heard the story from Sue and the truck driver calling the department. He already knew that they were supposed

to be out looking for this girl. Okay. How? He heard this story from Schaefer himself. Yeah, Crowder Frouder. So Sheriff's deputy Crowder was home that day. He was like off that day. He actually said he was like mowing the lawn

in one of the interviews. He was like, I was literally mowing my front lawn. Okay. And he said, I get a call from Gerard Schaefer. And he's like, what the hell? And she says, I answered the phone. And he says, I've done something foolish. You're gonna be mad at me. I'm, I've done something foolish. You're gonna be mad at me. I'm, I've done something foolish.

You're gonna be mad at me. That's literally word for word what he said. I don't even care about the like, you're gonna be mad at me. I've done something foolish. I've molested a young woman. That's so foolish of me. Abducted, tied up, molested, assaulted, tortured, and planned to murder.

And you said, kill women. That's so great. You said abducted. Yeah. You're going to be mad at me. So foolish. I did something pretty foolish. You didn't just like, I don't know,

like forget your homework. Yeah. You literally almost killed two women. Exactly. I literally fucking hate you. Yeah. He then proceeded to tell Crowder that he had picked some girls up hitchhiking. He decided for their own safety in the future that he was going to demonstrate why hitchhiking

was so dangerous. No. By literally torturing these girls in the forest. No, sir. I don't know if you know the law, which I would assume you would since you're a police officer, but that's not how it works. No, he said, he said, I just wanted to teach them a lesson. I wanted to scare them into not hitchhiking anymore.

And he goes, I admit I got carried away. Carried away. Got a little carried away. Carried away. What a little, I overtot. I overtot this. You didn't put like a little extra icing on the cake. Nope, you destroyed two women's lives forever.

Exactly. Yeah, he, so it's just insane. So Crowder is like, oh, okay. Alrighty. So he calls the department and he tells them that he's like, you know what, you need to call me if you get any information that comes in about two girls named Nancy Trotter and Pamela Wells.

He was like, I need to know about it. He was like, what the fuck? So he was called when Sue and the trucker called the station, but he already knew that he was supposed to be looking for them. So when they called, he was like, okay, now we gotta go find them. And he went to talk to Sue and this truck driver. So he was like, okay, what happened? So Sue told them everything or as much as she could

and said, Nancy's still out there. Like, we gotta go get her. So when he was driving by, he saw Nancy coming out of the river and he told her, I talk to Sue, like, Sue's okay, your friend is okay. And he's like, I'm gonna keep you safe. I'm gonna keep both of you safe. You don't have to worry.

And they're probably like, I really hope you're telling me which dude. And Nancy said she was like, he was very kind and like very like comforting in that moment. Like I give, like he was a really good guy. Now luckily, uh, Shaefer was immediately fired for this one. This was not one of those disciplinary things. Oh, he was charged with aggravated assaults. But they let him out on bond. For his trial, that wouldn't be for another six months.

So he was out on bond. He had just abducted two women. Right, and only got aggravated assault. Like he molested her. Yep. All right. He also was planning to kill them. If she stepped off of that rope, off of that root, she would have hung. Right, was planning to kill them. If she stood off of that rope off of that

route, she would have hung. Right. That's not all that. It's the same thing though as like attempted murder. Yeah. So now he's out on bond for months and more women are now going to be an extreme danger because he has six months before his trial. And in these six months, he's pissed. He fucked up. He fucked up. He didn't gay was not satisfied by what he did. So it was during this time that he met 17-year-olds Susan Place in Georgia, Jessup. Susan Place went to high school, went to the high school that Gerard taught at the plantation high school. This is probably where he first saw her. She was blonde, she had blue eyes, she was sweet,

she was kind, she was just like a cool girl, she was really independent. She was born with partial paralysis on her left side and she did suffer from epilepsy. But other than that, she tried to live a normal life. She didn't let it get to her. High school was a little tough because of all of this. Remember epilepsy was something people were like very shitty about back then.

Even as recently as they didn't get it. I didn't understand what it was. And so she even lost a job at a grocery store once because they said that their insurance couldn't cover an epileptic working there. Wow. Yeah. Which was just wild to me. And I found this out in Patrick Kendrick's book. So again, read the book. She and her family were super close.

She loved music, like loved it. She played a ton of instruments like piano, guitar. She could sing. She was just like really creative. When she was 17 years old, she ended up leaving high school and starting her education at an adult's education center. It was there that she met a man who was 26 years old and his name was Jerry Shepard. It wasn't though.

Yep, she felt very accepted by him, very encouraged by him. He was a nice guy. He told her like, you can be great things. Like she felt like he got her. Now at the same adult education center was a girl named Georgia Jessup, who was 16 years old at the same adult education center, was a girl named Georgia Jessup, who was 16 years old at the time. She, everyone describes her as a four-hour child. Love.

Like you would have loved Georgia. Love. She was called Crystal by everyone, just because she liked being called Crystal because she was like Crystal. Yeah. She believed in reincarnation. Same.

She loved the idea of astrology. She was just like, she was, she was that cool like 70s. It's a free of astrology. She was just like, she was that cool, like 70s check. Free spirit girl. She was beautiful. She had brownish red hair. Again, we have a blonde and a brunette or red head. Does he have a thing for like red heads too? I don't know.

I don't know, but her mom described her in the book, American Ripper, as a rose and bloom. Oh, yeah. She was really sweet. She was really kind, just like her friend. And she was also really trusting, which could get her in a little bit of trouble. And it wasn't because she was immature or anything.

She was just trusting. She didn't even to believe the best in people. She just wanted to believe people were good. She was a poor child. Even with all this podcast, I'm still pretty sure. You still would think that you want to believe. You want to believe that people are better. It's also thundering right now and the mood is set.

You might hear it. So she also loved interior design. She was very creative. She was very appreciative of architecture and structure. She just really had an eye for that. And it's 17. Yeah, and she did a little modeling. She just like really had an eye for that. And it's 17. Yeah, and she did a little modeling. She was very beautiful.

She like her friend, like Susan, she ended up leaving high school to attend the same adult education center. They were all going there together. She also met 26 year old Jerry Shepard. She apparently told everyone she knew that she had met him in a previous life, she felt, because they had just like a connection.

They clicked. Yeah, they clicked, because she's a manipulative piece of shit. He's 26 years old, he's in that age group that's like cool to a 17 year old, you know, like a 26 year old, like guy that just is like, I'm a cop. Then you look back on it and you're like, why was he hanging out with us? Exactly, but they, at the time,

you don't think about it. They were like, when you're 17, you're like, I'm just cool. That's what this is all about. She was really like intim. She really liked him. She thought he was so cool. And she ended up hiding a lot of stuff from her parents about him, which was not something that she would do otherwise. Like they were finding out like she was kind of lying and like sneaking around a little bit, and they were like, this is just not like her. Well, and he's older too. Yeah. So she probably felt like she had to.

Exactly. Now every woman he brought into his web and made a victim of his, they all shared something like, or most of them, I should say, shared like they were emotionally going through something. It's like he picked people that were emotionally vulnerable. That was kind of his thing. Was he could, they were like in a state where he could easily overpower them in every way, physically, emotionally, financially, mentally, everything.

And this was no different. They were both kind of in a weird place in their lives. They had left high school. They're kind of like trying to figure out what they want to do. They were like, you know, it's the 70s. It's being 17, everything sucks. And it's just like, you know, no one understands me. You know what I mean? It's just like, he knows that that's 17 year olds are in that spot, no matter what. Like, it's almost their default position. So he knows that. Yeah. That's why he prays on them. So Jerry eventually told Susan in Georgia that he

was going to be going to Mexico and then he was going to go home to Colorado where he lived. He did not live there. And it makes me wonder because again, this is during that six-month period that he was awaiting trial, that he was telling these girls this. So it makes me wonder if he was actually really planning to skip town to avoid that trial. I think he was maybe thinking he was gonna leave for Mexico. I could see that. But he asked them, do you wanna come with me? Make this a big adventure.

Like everybody's hitchhiking, everybody's going everywhere. Like, free love, let's go. Like let's do this. So these girls are like, fuck yeah, that sounds awesome. And again, they're a bit unsettled right now. So he's like, let's do this. They both wanted to go. They were both totally into it.

They were like, we need some adventure in our lives. Let's get the hell out of here. Yeah. So September 27th, 1972, they both ended up leaving with Jerry Shepard together. Remember, this is two months before his trial for the things he had just done to Nancy Trotter and Sue Wells.

Two months. Georgia at the time when she left, she was wearing blue jeans with like these brown leather patches on them. One was in the shape of an owl, and one was in the shape, it had like the road runner on it. Oh, cool. Which was like super cool at the time.

And she had left, Georgia had left a note for her parents, basically telling them that she was running away. Like she was just running away to have some adventure. I'll be back at some point, but I'm running away for now. She had gone away for a small periods of time before, like kind of took off for a little while and come back, but she always returned.

Her parents knew she was kind of going through it a little bit. Yeah. They didn't like it, but they knew that she would come back. And they probably didn't want to press too hard and have someone who may not come back, exactly. And again, the 70s are just a different situation. And Susan actually told her mother, Lucille. Lucille placed that she was like, you know what, I want to go with this guy.

And with Georgia, and we're going to have an adventure. Like she told her about it. She was like, this is what I want to do. Her guy and with Georgia, and we're going to have an adventure. Like she told her about it. She was like, this is what I want to do. Her mother was not happy about it. Lucille was like, I don't know about that. But she was like, you know what? She was turning 18. I felt like I should let her do this.

She said she remembered Jerry and Georgia coming over that day, September 27th, to get Susan. And she spoke to them both. So she spoke to Jerry, she spoke to Georgia. She said, she got a weird feeling about Jerry. He wasn't like creepy, but she was like, I just got a vibe.

It was just a vibe. A lot of movies. And then there's all these reports that she said, they had told her they were gonna go away, they were gonna go on an adventure, but she said, right now we're just gonna go to the beach and play some guitar and hang out. So she was like, okay, that's fine. You're going to go do that. We'll discuss all this later. Like, you know,

so she says she watched his blue green datson. Mm-hmm. That Jerry has. Who else has one of those? Oh, uh, another guy with a name kind of similar to Jerry. Could it be Jarar? Jarar Chaffer. She watched it pull away and she said she could see Susan take one last look at home before she went out of sight. Never to be seen alive again. Oh no, I can't imagine like feeling that. Oh, I feel so horrible for these parents. And that picture is probably just burnt in her memory. Burnt. And luckily, Susan's mom Lucille, while she's watching this, she said, while she was feeling that weird feeling, she said, I kept looking out at that vehicle in my front yard while they were in the house, and she goes, and I kept looking at it, she goes, and then I just was like, you know what, I'm gonna write that license plate down.

And she wrote that license plate number down. Hell yeah. Because she was like, in a prove to be one of the most important things that anyone did in Australia. Wow, it was right that down. Now, Susan's mother started getting worried as she didn't come home. And it proved to be one of the most important things that anyone did in Australia was right down. Now Susan's mother started getting worried as she didn't come home. Right, she was only supposed to be at the beach.

And days went by, weeks went by, no call from Susan. She also noticed at one time when she was cleaning up her room, she said she noticed her epilepsy medication was not on her person. It was in the drawer. Oh no. So she's like, she did not mean, she didn't intently for long. She was going to be coming home because she never would have left without that. So she gets this weird feeling about it. So she calls

one of her friends and she's like, have you heard from her? Do you know where she could be? And the friend gave her the number of Georgia Jessup's mother, Shirley Jessup. And she was like, I know they were going to be hanging out with that guy, Jerry. So she called Shirley. They connect and Shirley explained, Georgia left us a note. She said she ran away and she was like, you know what? She, in the note, she said, sorry, I just have to find my head.

Okay. So apparently she was feeling a little lost. Yeah. And she's like, we were worried too, but like we didn't know what to do and we were hoping she would just come back. Hearing that Susan had not run away but had told her mom what she was doing

but had not contacted her mother, surely was like, oh, that's concerning. So together, the two moms called the Oakland Parked Police but the Parked Police Department and they reported the license plate number that Lucille wrote down and they reported the car and also said his name is Jerry Shepherd. Nothing came of it because they probably were like these are two runaways and they

just decided to go. Well, and also this is great. So Lucille sat there and wrote down that license plate. She thought about it. She gives it to the police. The police write their license plate number down wrong from her telling them. So it matched a completely different car and address, which led to nothing of the debt. Of course. Later they found out that Slucile did have

the right number. She had not copied down the number wrong. And it was the police that wrote it down. So they were able to use her right number to actually lead back to Jerry, but the police wrote it down wrong. And how are you not double checking that? Right. Exactly. And like, had you not written that down wrong? Yeah. Who knows what could have happened? The police really shit the bed with this one. Like really shit the bed. Basically, these mothers were told it was hard because they're almost suffaiged to leave home. But they're not yet, so like, say that to me.

So luckily, after this, the Jessups and the places, all the moms and the dads, they kept in touch. They would drive around together looking for their daughters all together. They were investigating the case together. Yeah. They were all doing this. They did the police's job for them at this point. Now, remember remember at this moment

He's out on bond. Right. He's out on bond. He's about to go on trial in November for literally abducting assaulting and attempting to torture and murder two teenage girls And now he literally waiting trial with two teenage girls Meanwhile as all of this is happening George trial was in November 1972 and All of this is happening. Gerard's trial was in November 1972. And at this time, when the trial was happening, what is about to happen? Nancy Trotter and Sue Wells, the survivors,

they decided to stay where this happened in Stewart, Florida. Oh wow. They stayed there, they got jobs and lived there, where they were abducted and assaulted and almost murdered, just so they could be there for the trial to testify against him. Wow. A bad bitch. Oh, trial to testify against him. Wow a good

Bitches, I was just gonna say a couple of bad bitches got jobs like we're like we're not going anywhere good Like we're staying here and we're gonna make sure you get your shit and for all they knew he could he was probably lurking right around there You know that's the thing they're literally living in the same area this happened And they have to deal with him being out and about and like the thought of like running into him at some time Yeah, yep now of this happened and they have to deal with him being out and about. And like the thought of like running into him at some point. Yeah. Yep. Now, this is wild to me during the trial. So when the trial finally happened, it was like a quick trial.

The girls did testify. They did like fucking amazing. Did he show up to trial? He showed up. Oh. He showed up. Okay. Because remember right now, they all that, you know, all that the places and the Jessops

knows is this Jerry Shepherd man. They don't know who Gerard Schaefer is. Gerard Schaefer shows up. He didn't go anywhere. He's still around, so where are the girls? Yeah, exactly. So he shows up to his trial. He goes to the whole thing.

The judge was Martin County Circuit Court judge, DC Smith. And he said to Schaeffer in that courtroom. Are you ready? No, I don't think you're ready. I'm not ready. Yeah, expression in the furrow in your brow that I am not ready. He said, I don't want to embarrass you. I do, but I can't conceive how you were such

an automatic jackass and a fool as you were. I think we all concur in that you were a thoughtless fool. I don't know if that's quite the words that I would use. I don't want to embarrass you. Thoughtless fool? How about a fucking monster who was fully planning to torture and murder these girls and had slung a fucking noose around their necks? No, Elena.

Let's make his cheeks a little red. That's one of his own. Let's humiliate him just a little bit. You would think so. I think this is the time when we can say, you know what I do want to fucking embarrass you. I would want to embarrass the shit out of him. You fucking piece of dung.

Are you kidding me? I don't want to embarrass you, you fool. That's the good old voice sister, though. Stop calling him a fool. He's a monster. Right. He's an attempted murderer. Hello, everybody.

Hello. What is happening here? Everybody's just like, you're such a fool. That's like them taking care of their own, though. It truly is. It's wild. So Gerard told reporters outside the courtroom with a smile. Because he was always smiling.

I bet he was. He said, I made a stupid mistake. There was no sex involved. No one got hurt. He said, I made a stupid mistake. There was no sex involved. No one got hurt. Yeah, because they got away, dude. And actually, yes, they did get hurt. No one got hurt. Are you kidding me?

The girl was stung by multiple jellyfish escaping. They both had to swim across a fucking river in the Everglades, basically, to fucking handcuffed. Yeah. And no one was hurt. They're going to be destroyed for the rest of their lives emotionally from that. Like what the fuck, dude?

So he ended up accepting a plea deal. Oh my gosh. And he only had to plead guilty to one charge of aggravated assault. That's absolute bullshite. And this man, that your rard was sentenced to one year in jail with the possibility of parole after six months. Wow.

And three years of probation, which he was just gonna skip out on anyway. He attempted to hang two teenage girls and sexually assaulted them while planning to murder them, but okay, justice system. Already. Okay. Totally. Yeah. But this was in December, that he was even officially sentenced,

the trial began in November, remember? And he did start serving his sentence, but he started serving it January 15th, 1973. He was sentenced in December, didn't start serving until January 15th. I never understand how that worked. They just let him out. They just let him out for a little while longer before he had to come service to their affairs together, is that what it is?

Just get your shit together. So he didn't start that sentence until technically six months after he had done the crime. And then he could, like, you could have, they're in the same community. He could have hurt them. And you just, like, let him walk around. Exactly. And now Susan Place and Georgia Jessup have been missing for months at this point. And they were last seen with Jerry Shepard, whose car, physical description, and home later we find out match,

fucking Gerard Schaefer. I gotta go. Now days before he began his sentence on January 15th, two more women went missing. Are you serious? Days before he went to jail. Because you knew he was going away for a few months. Collette Marie good enough.

And Barbara and Wilcox were both 19 years old, one blonde, one brunette. They matched the profile. They were friends from Cedar Rapids, Iowa, who were looking to hitchhike across the country from Iowa to Florida. They said they were going to be staying with a friend. This friend was a male friend from college

who they had met in Iowa, but this guy had lived in Florida. Interesting. He told them he was going back and they should come stay with him when they could in Florida. He was like, go back to Florida, come stay with me. So they were like, cool, it'll be a fun road trip. Yeah.

So they stopped in Biloxi, Mississippi where they were staying with family on the way. And then sometime between January 8th and January 11th, so before he's in jail, they left again to hitchhike to Florida according to family members they were staying with. They said they left our house then. So this is between seven and four days before this guy starts serving his sentence. And he's just out in Iowa. Yep.

Now during this time, before Collette and Barbara left Iowa in the fall of 1972, they were in Iowa before they left to go to Florida. Shaffer admits he left the state unlawfully. Well out on bond. On bond. In the fall, either right before or during his trial. Are you kidding me? So he said he left to go.

So later, he was like, yes, I did leave unlawfully because you were out on a boat. You're not supposed to leave the state. No. He says he went to go on a hunting trip. And he said, I went somewhere like South Dakota. Somewhere like South Dakota. And they were like, well, you would probably know

where you went. Where did you go? And he's like, I don't know, somewhere around South Dakota. Oh, you just don't know. Yeah, you just go into a place. But he was later discovered that during this time, there was long distance phone calls made to his home in Stuart, Florida during this time from Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

There you have it. He was in the place these girls were living for a while. And according to American Ripper, Patrick Kendrick reports that Collette was a lover of poetry and often wrote it herself. She was also suffering from some emotional issues and sought professional help from them. I want you to, for like, for her emotional issues. I want you to hold on to that, because that does come back later. Collette and

Barbara were close friends. They were like ready to set off on an adventure together and they definitely came across Gerard Schaefer during this time 100% the theory is that I mean he made phone calls from Cedar Rapids, Iowa to home He was there. Yeah during this time right it was definitely he was pretending to go to college and he met them They became friends because he was able to charm and he told them you know when I'm going back home to Florida Once you come out and visit me, right? And I'm gonna be back only for the short period of time. So you got to get there before I go to fucking jail.

You didn't say that, but he was definitely being like, I got to be somewhere in January. So get here. Right. So there's that. Now meanwhile, so that happened. They went missing. They never arrived in Florida. Nobody heard from them. And their families were like they would have told us where they were. Now meanwhile, January 17, 1973, two days after this schmuck finally starts serving his sneeze of a sentence. Yes, for real.

Another horrific discovery was found that would later be linked to Gerard Schaefer. Remember this six-month period of time that he was allowed to troll around was really detrimental. He also did a ton of shit before this, but that time he definitely did some shit during this time. So in plantation Florida, remember where he had worked as a teacher, where he had met like all some of the victims, in plantation Florida, two workers were surveying an empty lot because they were going to be building condos there. One of these workers, some of the victims in Plantation, Florida, two workers were surveying an empty lot because they were going to be building condos there. One of these workers, James Christian,

was surveying near a set of bushes and he just noticed something red in the bush. He went closer and he quickly discovered that what he was seeing was part of a dead body. It was horrifically battered. The red he had seen were from a pair of hip-hugger maroon pants that were not on the body, but near it. The body's legs were spread apart, and they were still wearing a red white and blue t-shirt.

Her hands were covered in, like, I guess they were buried in the soil a little bit, which made them weirdly preserved, like really well preserved, and there were several broken fingernails on her hands, showing a lot of defense wounds. Had occurred. She had struggled. Now somehow this got worse. Her head had been severed from her body, and it was lying in a puddle of blood nearby. Oh my god. The lower jaw of her head was shattered, and a tooth was missing at least one.

lower jaw of her head was shattered and a tooth so it was missing at least one. The body appeared to be that of a young girl and her teens. So police were called to this scene. They closed it all off. They bring the body in for identification and autopsy. And when they searched the scene with excavation tools, they found a pair of like a young teenager girls underwear. The missing tooth from the skull and several fingernails,

which were literally ripped off her hand. Oh my God. You also wonder what happens to the people that find these bodies like afterward for those kind of people. I can't imagine. Because they, nothing can prepare you for that. Nothing. Especially that brutal, brutal.

Now an autopsy showed that the shattered jaw was part of a blow to the head that was likely the one that killed her. She was a teenager. They said between the ages of what they thought was 16 to 22, approximately, and she had been dead likely somewhere between one and three months maybe for it the most. She was Brunette about five, five medium builds. She remained unidentified at this time. One month later, February 15th in the same exact lot, they were moving forward to build the condos because they're like, okay, I guess we just have to go forward with this.

And an area only 200 yards away from where the first body was found, another body was lying there, ready to be found now. Oh my God. In the open, she too was a young teen girl and was found with, ready to be found now. Oh my God. In the open, she too was a young teen girl and was found with a blow to the head and was decapitated. These bodies and their discoveries were covered a lot in the news, but no one was coming forward to identify either of them. Then one night, a man named Anthony Briskilina was watching the news when a story came on,

and he immediately felt his heart drop. His daughter Mary Briscolina had run away in October 1972 months earlier and he had not heard from her since. She was only 14 years old, had brown hair and had left home with a pair of maroon, hip huggers, just like the ones found next to the body. 14 years old. And the reason that they estimated it was like between 16 and 22 was I think she was just

like taller for her age and like resembled an older. He got her dental rest, so her father ran and got her dental records to bring to the Emmy. And immediately they were compared. They were a match. The body was his missing daughter. Oh no. Now this led them to identify the second body

because they knew that she was with a girl who was only 13 years old. Oh my God. A girl named Elsie Farmer. Now Mary's younger sister told investigators that she had seen Mary leave October 22nd, 1972 with Elsie. This was right before, remember, his trial. Right before, the months before,

and that they were running away. They together, they were gonna run away. They had been having some issues with that lately, taking off, hanging with a bad crowd, kind of like going through it. Yeah. Now, her little sister had tried to convince her to stay, but she watched Mary pack those maroon pants

and leave with some voice. Now, LC lived with her half sister Linda Walker and Linda's husband Robert. Her family life was really rough before staying with her half sister. Her parents had literally just left her, like left the house and kicked her out of it when she was 10 years old. She came home from school one day and they were just, that's it. They were like, you have no family. And it was her half sister who brought her in, like to care of her. Yeah. October 24th, Linda said she and LC, uh, or Linda, her half sister said that

she'd seen LC at the trailer they lived in with Mary, a boy named John Higgins and another boy named Russ Coleman. They were, um, they were in a guy named Bob Wyatt's car, and Bob was at one time dating Mary. So these were just all people who knew each other. Now Elsie or excuse me Linda, the half-sister, should she have left for an appointment? And when she came back, everyone was gone, and there was a note that Elsie had left saying she would be back later, but she never came back. So she and her husband Robert searched themselves for her and then immediately filed a police report. Nothing came of it. They now knew that the second body was that of LC farmer, but they were nowhere near finding the killers

or killer. We'll get back to this later. So right now, unidentified. And I'm sorry, both were decapitated. Both were decapitated. Yeah. So at this point, Gerard is now, because now we've made it to his sentence. He is now in jail for the horrific crimes against Sue and Nancy. And police are still snoozing on any information about the missing Georgia in Susan. Right. So early 1973, Lucille Place, Susan's mom, called up detective she had spoken to and she said, you know what, you're not doing anything, so I'm just going to investigate this myself. So she said, send me everything you have. I call on you. I do this.

And they did. I love that they were just like, yeah, we aren't going to do shit. So here you go. Wow. What a bunch of fucking assholes. What the fuck? just like, yeah, we aren't going to do shit. So here you go. Wow. What a bunch of fucking assholes. So now together, Susan and George's parents, not the police, ended up matching a letter Lucille found in Susan's room from Jerry Shepard to the

address on the envelope, going to the address of that was connected to the Datsun, where they had finally gotten the right plate. The car was indeed registered to that address. So they were going to link that up. She spoke to the apartment manager where the address plate. The car was indeed registered to that address, so they were able to link that up. She spoke to the apartment manager where the address was, and the man confirmed that the car and the man who lived there was named Gerard Schaefer. And he said, yes, he drives that, that's in,

that's his license plate, he lived here. But he told her, he knew Gerard, he said, he's really strange, he's really belligerant. He like, and he says, he's actually a former police officer. Oh yeah. And then he was shooting, they were like, what the fuck? And then he goes, yeah, but he's not anymore because he's actually in the Sheriff's Department jail

being held on assault charges for two female hitchhikers. Right. And they were like, are you fucking kidding me? And like our two girls are missing. This must have been terrifying to hear. Of course, because at that point, you probably just lose all hope that you're ever gonna find them alive.

Exactly, and they were probably like, wait, how long has he been in jail? Because they're probably hoping in their head, like, okay, he's been in jail, and now he's been in jail this whole time, and we just, this is wrong. And so that he was like, no, he just wanted to do. Like, he was definitely out during that time,

and they're like, fuck. And to think of what he had done to Nancy Trotter and Sue Wells, and now he is possibly the man your daughter has left with months ago, I just can't even. No. So the places in the Jess-ups are still doing the police's job. And after they learned that Gerard Schaefer was actually the man who was likely Jerry Shepard, and that his landlord said he was in jail for assaulting two teenage girls. They went right to the jail where he was being held. And they spoke to a sergeant there, and they explained the situation

and the places actually gave the sergeant a photo of Susan. And they said, you go back there and you show it to him. And you ask him if he knows this girl. Hell yeah. So he went back there and he talked to him and he denied ever meeting Susan. But the cops came back and this sergeant was like, yeah, he's a bullshitter though. Like I don't believe him.

Like he's an asshole and a compulsive liar. So he gave, the sergeant actually gave the places a negative, like a photo of Schaefer. and they said like they kind of showed the line up and they were like, is he in here? They were like, that is Jerry Shepard. She was like, he was in my house. I know that man, that is him. That is the man that left with my daughter,

that day and her daughter. But that's it. Nothing happened, the police were like, wow. Okay. What the fuck? I don't know what to tell you. So now the places and the Jess-ups were like, well, we're gonna bring this to the media now.

Yeah, exactly. So you wanna focus around and find out. So they spoke with a woman named Jane Ellison who was a reporter for the Palm Beach Post Times. And she was like, all right, I'm gonna get on this with you. Like, I'm gonna help you get this out there. Now, it wasn't until April 1st 1973 a couple months later that two bodies were found. Now a man named Henderson Holly and his son Jesse were collecting

aluminum cans and Hutchinson Island, Florida. Hutchinson Island might sound familiar because that is where Gerard Jsafer brought Nancy Trotter and Sue Wells. As he was so, as Henderson wandered off to collect some more cans, he said he sawed the bushes, he saw look, what he thought was clothing. And he said it was stained and ripped and strewn around everywhere. And he saw a pink blouse shirt, white underwear, black heels, and another pair of shoes that were blue. And he was nearing a tree seeing this,

and he said the smell was outrageous. But he said there was a nuclear plant nearby and he was like, I don't know if that's what makes it so I something weird. There were clouds of flies everywhere and he said he suddenly saw a part of a human body. But he said it was still tied to the base of a tree. Oh my god. And he said it had been slightly hidden by palm trees, but almost like it was like a joke. Right. I'm not really trying to hide this, but almost like it was like a joke. Right.

I'm not really trying to hide this, but I'm gonna pretend there was no head to this body, and the spine had been broken. Oh my God. One arm was removed, but the other had rope attached to it, obviously a ligature. There were claw marks on the tree that came from this person trying to fight to free themselves.

As he backed away, he stumbled over a second body. Oh my God. It was also headless and the spine had been cut and two. This body still had a pair of jeans on, and the jeans he noticed had a leather patch on it. One was a road runner patch and one was an owl. Torja. So these were Georgia and Susan.

Now, it was Jane Ellison the reporter who suggested to police that they should look into these bodies as possibly belonging to Georgia, just up in Susan place. You think? Because she's working with the parents now and they're like, you need to tell me these are not my kids. Like, so she also told them, by the way, Gerard Schaeffer should definitely be a suspect here. Like why you guys not fucking looking into this? Like why is everyone doing your jobs? Yeah, like the mom literally was able to identify him in the lineup.

Yeah. Now four days later, they were both identified by dental records as Georgia Jessup and Susan Place. April 7th, 1973, after the discovery of Susan Place and Georgia Jessup's murdered remains, a search warrant was executed at Shafers' mother's home since he is now suspect. They hit the jackpot. Now, I'm not going to list everything they got out of here. I'm telling you, go read the book. He has a complete list of every single thing they took from the source and it is extensive and terrifying. Great. I'll just

mention a few things. They found women's jewelry, human teeth and a vile. They also found a ton of weapons like machetes, several guns, several knives. They also found a bunch of photos of mutilated women. They found small bones that were clearly human. What the fuck? Then they went to, this was just at his mother's home, by the way. And it was in a room where he told everybody, don't you dare go in that room. So no one was allowed to go in that room in this month's house.

So like, this is my house, Gerard. This is my house, buddy. But yeah, so then they did a search warrant on Shea for some. And they found a white pillowcase with stains on it, which would make sense later when you read some of his writings. They also found some more guns. They found a bunch of ammunition. They found cloths that had been ripped into like little straps, like gags. Yeah, I think.

They found human teeth in his house as well, a lot of teeth, a lot of gold fillings that had been extracted. A lot of photos of women's genitals, like just random photos, and a lot of photos of mutilated women, a lot of photos of him in sometimes wearing women's clothing and like quote unquote hanging, basically BTK. There was also a seven page typed paper with, that was like handwritten to, like it was like typed and then handwritten on the margins. And it was about the hanging of a woman in a swamp area. She was in it, she was stripped. Pillow case was put over her neck, a noose around her neck. He dressed her in some kind of like shroud.

He literally tortured her, terrorized her. The description is horrific, no horrific. There is so much descriptive awfulness in this. And it tells about like how he felt, it tells about like the sexual pleasure he derived from this, it tells about murdering her, about mutilating her, about dumping her remains. There was also a five-page handwritten letter, and it basically talked about some unknown female who was wearing a white waitress dress, which will come back later, in the area of a power line road, which is a road that will also come back later. Didn't say the date, didn't say the time, but talked about terrorizing her, killing her, doing the same kind of thing. the time, but talked about terrorizing her, killing her,

doing the same kind of thing. There was also sketches involved in all of this, and these sketches were what he had drawn of women hanging, being tortured, being murdered, being mutilated, very vile, very focused also all these descriptions, like I said before on what happens after you die. Your nation, defecation, all the awful stuff. They also found an envelope that was addressed to Gerard Schaeffer, and it was from a publication company because remember when I told you before,

he used to pretend to be a research assistant trying to get information. This letter was postmarked May 15th, 1970, and it was a two-page letter, and it said, can't help you with information you requested. And the letter that was attached was one they'd sent back to Schaefer, and it was him asking for information about women being executed and wearing waterproof underwear during executions. What the fuck? Yeah. There was another envelope addressed to him. And it was from Victoria, Australia, from 1971, and it contained 13 black and white photographs of nude women. 11 of them appeared to be in the middle of being hanged. One was decapitated. The fuck is this world? Yeah, it's horrific shit. Yeah.

In May 1970, and there was more. There was even more. There was hundreds of pages of handwritten, what he said was fictional stories that he had written about several abductions, tortures, mutilations, murders. The most horrific shit you will ever read in your life. Patrick Henderk has a lot in the book, but it's a lot.

Now, in May 1973, he was solidly charged with first degree murder in the cases of Susan Place and Georgia Jassett, because after they found all that shit, they were like, well, I think you did it. Now that the trial was about to begin, these things were all over the news, because of this, two investigators started speaking to a lot of people who suddenly felt like Gerard Schaefer

may have known their missing loved ones, because now this is going everywhere, and they're like, wait, I might have been around that guy. I think I have a connection here. And I have somebody who's missing. A guy named Raymond Cummings was a guy who was friends with John Higgins who was married Bliskerlina's friend. She was the one who LC and her were last seen with. Now John Higgins and Ray Cummings told investigators that they saw photos of Gerard Schaeffer on the news but he said, but we know him as Gary Shepherd. Gary Shepherd now. Oh, yeah.

Exactly. Like, Jerry Shepherd. Now, Shepherd had told these guys that he was an ex-police officer and they told investigators that the reason Mary and Bob Wyatt, who likes whose car they were driving that night, were not dating anymore, was because when she went missing, he was sure before that that she was seeing Gary Shepherd, that something was going on between them. So that 100% tells you that they weren't around each other.

She was like 13, right? She was 14. 14. Yeah. They had been seen together on several occasions. Several people identified a photo of Gerard Schaefer as Gary Shepherd. Oh yeah, you're...

And now someone came forward to say that Mary and Elsie were also last seen getting into a car with Gary Shepard. Oh no. So 100%. When all of this happened, Mary Briskilina's family were asked to see if any of the belongings found in Schaeffer's home and his mother's home belonged to Mary. They identified three pieces of very unique jewelry

as belonging to her. One was a Madonna and Cross Medal. Another was a bracelet with 11 rose beads on it, and the third was a green glass pin, and it was shaped by, it was either shaped like a dog or like a poodle or something like that. It was just very unique, it was like green glass. Right, like not something everybody would have on them. Yeah.

He had her jewelry. Now, Patrick Kendrick asked investigators why they never bought these murder cases, cases against Gerard. They were like, okay, well, clearly he did this. Like, you have all the information you need, aside from a full-blown confession. And so Patrick Kendrick was like, why did you not charge him? And the police were basically like, eh, he was going to prison already, so. Oh, yeah, that's how that works. He's already going to prison, so. He literally told Kendrick, they believed he was the prime suspect and that this evidence

was damning to say the least, but they were like, eh, what the fuck? We had it, I guess, so there's that. Now, a newspaper clipping, telling of the girls, of the missing girls, Lee Hainline, Abonnides, and Carmen Hallack were also found among his possessions, just a newspaper clipping about that. Oh, yeah, just that.

And there was also found in those belongings, just to tie this back to other ones. A story about a woman named Carmen. He had named the victim in his story, Carmen. In the story, there's a woman wearing a black dress and black heels, which is what she was seen leaving in the evening that she went missing. And those things were not found in her home, those pieces of clothing. And he mentions something in this story about Auburn Hare, which she had. And Auburn hair is not like, that's a very specific hair. And she had it. Now this story

about this particular person is brutal in a way I can't even describe to you. I can't even... That's not the same thing. Nope. Cool. Definitely not because I couldn't even say these words out loud. I could not even say the story out loud. The description of her assault, torture, rape, murder, and mutilation is unlike anything your worst nightmares could conjure up. Like I write horror, this is something so beyond and so real. Like, it is so reality and it's so horrific that I can't even begin to, I can't even begin. And Patrick Kendrick has the entire thing of this particular story in the book. I again encourage you to read that book because it's so fascinating and he did such hard work

investigating this case, but I just want to warn you that is in there. He gives you a warning in the book that it's coming, so you're not just going to stumble upon it. Yeah. It's really bad, just to forewarn you, but again, read Patrick Hender, because I know either way, I don't want to scare anybody away from reading it. Because again, he gives you a warning. But either way, there's literally a story about a woman named Carmen and a description

of what she's wearing when the real Carmen Halik went missing in the color of her hair. And he writes in this tale, quote, the lower jaw I buried in the rest of her skull with the face smashed in and the teeth pulled out. I put in another canal, some 10 miles from the rest of the body. Two of the teeth found in his home were that of Carmen Hallock.

And he never got tried for her murder. Nope. And they were identified as belonging to Carmen Hallock. And he just found them somewhere. Yeah. That they thought forensic dental professionals. And these are identified as Carmen. And she was like, he talks about it in that story Well, I just don't understand how they could not. Why they wouldn't do that, anything. And if this doesn't prove it, a man named John Dolan came forward to say that he had actually been

Gerard Schaeffer's roommate at one time, and John Dolan said he, John Dolan, had dated Carmen at one point. So he goes, Gerard definitely knew her. She was coming back to our house. He had seen her, he had talked to her. Right. He knew who she was.

What the hell. They also knew each other because of the Broward Junior College thing. Like there was so many connections between this and they're like, I don't know. Yes. My third teeth are just in his house.

I don't know, he's so crazy. He's saying he just wrote a story and it's like, what the fuck? Her teeth are in his home. Carmen was never found. Carmen was never found. Carmen was never found. And in this story, he talks about how he made sure

she would never be found. Why do you think he went to such lengths to make sure she was specific? I don't know. I don't know, because she, maybe because she was one of the first ones. Yeah. She was an early one.

Okay. Like, she was with Lee. Like, that was one of the really early ones in 6970 that he was I think starting out. And was Lee found? Lee was I she eventually is found. Okay. Not only that, but they also found jewelry in his possession that was identified as having belonged to Lee. Wow. Her family confirmed it. There was a swimming club pin, a Disney pin, and a gold locket with the name Lee inscribed on it. Oh my God, dude.

There was also a story, another horrifically graphic one that described the torture and murder of a woman, like I said before, in a white waitress uniform. Oh. That's what Lee was wearing the day she disappeared. The store she was literally supposed to be at work and was wearing a white waitress uniform. That's what Lee was wearing the day she disappeared. The store she was literally supposed to be at work and was wearing a white waitress uniform. The story mentioned that this woman was tortured and killed off Powerline Road. Well in 1978, later, a group of men hunting found the top half of a woman of a

human skull off Powerline road. The top half? The skull had three large bullet holes in it and was later identified as that of Lee Haanline. That's awful. That would be one hell of a coincidence. I would say so. And also, you heard that right. The top half of a skull, which turns out to be part of his thing,

is he cuts the skull in half. How? He is unlike anything you've ever seen. They found several of Colette good enough's handwritten ensigned poems in this search as well. And they also found an ID card with the name Colette good enough to enter treatment at an emotional health center she was attending. Because like I said, she had been entering professional treatment. They found an ID card from one with her name on it.

They also found her literal birth certificate. They found her passport and other identifications with her name and information on them in his home. Later in 1977, a truck driver found two entangled skeletons while walking along a canal in St. Lucy, Florida. The arms of the skeletons were tied together and to each other with bailing wire, which is like really gnarly like silver wire. And the tops of the skulls had both been cut off just slightly. It took a long time, but forensic dental experts identified the skeletons of those

of Colette Goodenuff and Barbara Wilcox. In 1981, that canal in St. Lucy where they were found dried up and someone found the top of Barbara Wilcox's skull there. Colette's top of her skull has never been found. What? It's like in one of the stories, which was handwritten, he also says that whoever his like, he calls his bad guy the ghoul. Okay. He's so fucking stupid. He's the ghoul. And he talks about how he used to use to pliers and he would pull out gold fillings.

They found a shit ton of gold fillings in his position. And he always, and he said something in his writings that like we always salvage something from the bodies. And he talked about gold fillings again. They found so many of them. Like it is very clear that this is not fiction. No. It is reality.

He's living it. Like it's stuff in his house. They also found envelopes with the name Jerry Shepherd on them in his position. Come on. What more did they want though? Yeah, come on. And it also became clear that he was not like another serial killer that they could point to. Like this was a very, he was so beyond anything. His print elections were so specific and so fucking vile, he was obsessed with torture.

He was obsessed with humiliation and causing terror in his victims, and he also sexualized defecation in urination, so he would force his victims to drink a lot so that they would urinate while he hung them. He also loved to dismember and mutilate, and he was a necrophiliac. Oh. It was just acrophiliac. Oh.

It was just a storm of the worst shit. Everything. In one person shaped evil cloud of swamp gas. Like that's what he was. He's a person shaped evil cloud of swamp gas. Yeah. That's what he is. And he had the benefit of wearing a fucking police uniform while doing it.

That's insane to me. So people trusted him. Now, during the murder trial, Shaefer literally smiled like he was posing for photos. Like, victims, mothers and fathers took the stand and he would lock eyes with them and smile, like cheese. What a fucking dick. File creature is what he is.

A lot happened during the trial, like Shaefer's friend calling in a bomb threat to move the trial. Yeah. I have to go. Read the pocket, says it all. But something came out about Georgia Jessup and Susan Places' crime scene

that was also pretty wild and unexplained. Patrick DuVal from the St. Lucie County Sheriff's Office was on scene the day that they found those bodies. And he was cross-examined on the stand. And during this, he talked about how horrific that scene really was. And he said he found both the girl's scalps in different places. And the tree was clearly used as a method of more torture and murder, excuse me. He said there was a bunch of chop marks in the tree on the bottom and there were pieces of cloth from the girls dresses in the chop marks.

Oh my god. Yeah. He also mentioned that the initials G.J. were carved into the tree and they were done recently. He said it hadn't healed over yet. And Patrick Kendrick explains in his book that people either think that Gerard John Schaefer went back to the crime scene and did this, like, G.J. God interrupted her, just didn't finish his initials. Or that Georgia Jessup carved her initials into that tree to be identical. While watching her friend being massacred because she may have done this

so she could be identified later. And that's the thing. Which two, oh sorry, oh no, you go ahead. That's the thing too with how he picks two people is one of them has to sit there and watch the other one. And know what's gonna happen to them. And they said that was 100% part of it. Absolutely.

You would pick two women because he wanted one of them to watch the other one. That is, and just we can't even fathom what possibly happened out there. You can't even wrap, and none of us should. None of us should ever fathom what happened there. Just take here that the cloth from their dresses, where whatever the chopman's was in the tree. Like, he's just like hacking away with them.

He's so beyond an animal, or like he's just, he's undescribed. I was going to say that's not beyond an animal or like he's just, he's undescribable. I was going to say that's not even an animal. He really is. And during the murder trial for Susan while, or excuse me, for Susan Place and Georgia Jessup, Nancy Trotter and Sue Wells took the stand again during the murder trial like two bad asses and testified about their ordeal with Gerard Schaefer. Meanwhile, his lawyers were trying to paint these two survivors as runaways and basically saying they were being taught a lesson and he just got carried away.

Oh yeah, taught a lesson. Yeah. You have ever been taught a lesson like that. And they're like, okay. Yeah. Like sure. At that point, I'd be like, do you want to learn the same lesson? Yeah. Why don't we have him take you out there too? Is that a lesson you want to learn? You can figure out the lesson that I learned. Yeah, oh my. Tell me what I learned. Having they sit there and hear that.

And to sit there and be like, yeah, okay. Yeah, it's just a lesson that day. Yeah, thank you for that. And you know, you know some of these men truly believe it. Oh, absolutely. Like, truly believe. He was teaching in a lesson. He just got carried away.

And it's like, fuck you. Right. So the state brought up Dr. And it's like, fuck you. Right. So the state brought up Dr. Joseph Davis, the date county medical examiner, to explain the findings of the finding of the bodies, and the picture painted from him was even worse. He said both heads were missing, and there was evidence that a sharp instrument

was used to cut them off. One of them had cuts into the fourth cervical vertebrae, so he'd cut directly through. He went into detail about the crime scenes and about how there's an interview in the book about this that they go back and forth like the cross-examination and how he's like, the attorney was trying to be like, so this couldn't be self-inflicted. And he was like, no, I do not think that they cut their own heads off. Thank you for asking, though. Well, he literally said, are you fucking kidding me?

Yeah. Now, September 27th, 1973, that is the exact day that they were taken from their house. Oh, wow. Like a year to the day. He was found guilty of first degree murder for the deaths of both Susan Place and Georgia Jessup. You know that reincarnation is of both Susan place and Georgia Jessup. You know that reincarnation is real Georgia because Georgia did that. Because Georgia did that.

100%. That's what I was thinking. The date again, the exact day. Yeah. Now October 4th on what would have been Susan places 19th birthday, he was sentenced to two concurrent life sentences. Bye. Like on Susan places 19th birthday, he was sentenced to two concurrent life sentences. Bye. Like on Susan places 19th birthday.

Yeah. That's some spiritual shit right there. Now, he was smiling and chatting with reporters outside the courtroom. He told them he had written something on the prison cell wall in the courthouse where they kept him. And what they found out it said was, this is the land of lost content. I see it shining plain, the happy highways where I went and cannot go again.

And I did not look it up. I wanted to see if you knew what that was from. Can you say it one more time? I'm sorry. This is the land of lost content. I see it shining plain, the happy highways where I went and cannot go again. It does sound familiar.

Doesn't it sound familiar? I was hoping that you would catch it, but I don't know what it is. I'm going to look it up right now. I just wanted to see. happy highways where I went and cannot go again. It does sound familiar. Doesn't it sound familiar? I was hoping that you would catch, but I don't know what it is. I'm going to look it up right now. I just wanted to see if you would know what it was. No, it sounds very familiar. I feel like I'm going to be pissed when we figure it out. Okay, I looked it up.

And it is a poem by A.E. Houseman, and it is called a Shrop Shire Lad XL. I don't know why this sounded familiar. It sounded very familiar. And it is called a Shrop Shire Lad XL. I don't know why this sounded familiar. It sounded very familiar, but maybe we read it in something, I don't know. Like high school probably. But basically the analysis of it is that,

I mean, the analysis of this act that he did was to seem like he is intelligent and deep in any way, but he is not. But it's basically like that whole little stanza is that like, I'm looking back with nostalgicly at like what I once had and where I once lived, but I can't go back there. Right. So it's like, so it's like, you did, I don't know why I said so, it's like, I recognize that as soon as the second I came up. But it's basically him being like,

I murdered a bunch of people and did all these horrible things. So I can't go back to that life I once had where I was a police officer and I was this and I was that I can't go back to that that land of being free to abduct teenage girls and murder them because now I have to face this. Yeah, exactly.

That's a thing. That's a sweet like I can't go back to that life of killing and. Which to me is pretty confessional. To me, one might say pretty confessional. But to him, I think he thinks it's like deep kind of a confession, but not really. And it's also like him being like, I just love poetry guys. I bet. And it's like, you're fucking idiot. No one believes you read poetry. Get out of here. I wonder if one of the girls showed him that home. I'm sorry, who did you say loved poetry?

Collette. I wonder if the letter showed him that home. I wondered that too because it's like wrote poetry a lot too. Or maybe even had a book of poetry with her and he read it in there. It's true. It definitely could have been that

because he was also a creative writing like major at one point like he did enjoy it. But I think maybe they, but that's not a bad point, like he did enjoy it. He made it fun. Maybe they, but that's not a bad point that like, Colette probably, because she was known to be like a poetry girl. Right, she wrote it, she read it, she always had it with her.

Right, so that would be something, and that's an obscure one it feels like. Yeah. It feels like something that maybe she would have brought up. Yeah. Which I think is another like, he's doing another deal. The parents basically. Now, remember, at this time, he's still married, by the way.

I don't know if we all forgot that. The way that you just dropped a motherfucking bomb. I thought he got divorced. He got divorced from his first wife, Martha. He's still married to that girl he met at the grocery store. Oh shit! He is still married. Didn't have kids, but he's still married.

Wow. Because this all happened in the span of not that long of time. It's only a couple of years. That poor woman. So this woman is still his wife. Still married to him. Oh my god. Watching all this this oh my god

Yeah, I can't imagine oh yeah, and we're gonna get back to her in a second because something happens Okay, so Susan places mother Lucille said after the verdict quote I'll never accept the fact that Susan has been murdered or that she's dead I cry every day how she must have suffered if I only knew right now that her death for her was quick, but who knows what he did to her. And she also said she was happy with the sentencing. She said, quote, at first I thought I would like to see him dead, but I think people suffer more with confinement, which I agree.

No. Now his writings were a pivotal part of convicting him. It was introduced as evidence. Like here they are. He could see where they wrote what happened, word for word. Some of the names of his writings, by the way, into the mind of the ghoul, flies in her eyes. Oh my God.

Blonde on a stick, and whores. What to do about him? Oh, I want to cast right in. And in 1991, in an interview, he was asked about his writings. And he goes on this long rant, you can look it up on like Google, his interviews, their wild to watch.

Can I ask if he's still alive? He's not. And don't worry, that's a good ending. It's a good ending. Cool, cool, cool. But he went on like, so he's asked about the writings and he goes on this long rant about how

they're just fantasy. And other horror writers don't get blamed for doing the things they write. But I think that's because they don't have teeth in their house, Gerard. I think that's why. Yeah. I think that's why.

I would say so. I would say. Which I was like waiting for the interview to be like, I don't, I think that's because they don't have body parts in their house. Yeah. That are connected to actual murder victims murder and jewelry belonging to murder victims. Like he literally acts like they're in,

at one point he acts like the interviewer is just begging him to read these out loud because he keeps saying, well you'll just use it like a confession if I read it out loud. And the guys like, you really don't have to, it's fine. Like I don't, I'm honestly not asking you to. And then he goes, with absolutely no pushing, he goes, you want me to read it? Okay, I'll read it, I'll, it's fine. I'm honestly not asking you to. And then he goes, with absolutely no pushing,

he goes, you want me to read it? Okay, I'll read it. I'll read it out loud. And the guy's like, I don't want you to read it, sir. I need to go, I'll just, he goes, I'll just trust you to do the right thing. So he was like, you're gonna use a snippet of this as a confession.

And then he's like, all right, I'll read it. I want to read it out loud, because it's like, what? Cause you are that narcissistic and you're that desperate for any body to give you any attention that you're like, all right, I'll just read it out loud. I guess.

What the fuck? He wanted to read it so badly out loud and he's chisening while he's reading these vile things out loud. He can barely contain himself. And he says he is better than Stephen King. I beg to differ. To which I say, no, you're not. They, sir. And he says he is better than Stephen King. I beg to differ. To which I say no, you're not. They sir. And he's just being, he says I'm just being convicted because I wrote horror and he says

and I was exceptional at it. That's why I'm being convicted because I am an exceptional writer. That's why. To which I say no, it was the teeth. I think it was partly it was the teeth found in your house. I think it was the teeth and I think it was partly it was the teeth. I think it was the teeth. And I think it was the birth certificate of a murder victim. Yeah. And the jewelry of a murder victim. There's several witnesses seeing you

with murder victims. The stained pillowcases that you wrote about in your writing. The machetes, the weapons. Probably all that. The fact that you've freely admitted and were convicted of bringing two girls under the same circumstances

to the same place where other murder victims were found. And I'm so based off of the titles of your writings, I don't necessarily think you're a prolific writer. Nope, don't think so. Into the mind of the ghoul. Blondon a stick? A horrific. Yeah, I don't think so.

Now it has been speculated a lot how many murders he is truly responsible for because it's definitely more Oh, yeah, because around this time too, there was a lot of hitchhikers a lot of runaways People going and unfortunately he had that Women are you know that Madonna horror complex and he wanted to he his whole thing was I want to rid the world of these Horses. That's what I want to do and if he thought you were away from his like his value system, then he was going to rid the world of you. And did he say what his value system was? Well, he goes back and forth with it because he's a bullshitter. Because he's so I think he just like to kill people. Yeah, exactly.

And he just killed women. But you know there were some like sex workers, there were some people traveling through runaways. People who didn't have families who didn't report them missing, that were definitely on his list. Absolutely, and just the fact that there were people that we know he killed that were never found. Yeah, exactly. We know he's capable of hiding a body

with a person, unfortunately, very well. Absolutely. So district attorney Robert Stone actually had the list at 34. He believes he is at least 34. Wow. Now, he actually wrote in a letter because he was writing to his ex-girlfriend,

Sandra, London there for a while, out of prison. We'll get her in a second. He wrote, as you know, and this was in 1991, he said, I've always harped on district attorney Robert Stone's list of 34. In 1973, I sat down and drew up a list of my own. Now remember, he's claiming he's never murdered anyone. Right.

But now he's writing a list. As I recall, my list was just over 80. I'm sure. So yeah, so then he went on and said, I'm not claiming a huge number. I would say it runs between 80 and 110. But I thought you didn't tell anybody. Yeah, but over eight years and three continents.

What? Please. And this is really horrific, and I just want to warn you right now. Trigger warning, this is just like a really gross thing to say. He said, one whore drowned in her own vomit while watching me disembowel her girlfriend. Oh my God. I'm not sure that counts as a valid kill. Did the pregnant ones count as two kills?

It gets confusing. Fuck off. That's what he wrote. And then he tried to say, that's horrific. I didn't kill anyone. What are you talking about? He's also, like he did absolutely 100% kill these people.

He is writing this shit for shock. Exactly. He definitely, exactly. He 100% killed more people and he's a biocidistic monster of unbelievable proportions. But I also think he's a biocidistic monster of unbelievable proportions. But I also think he's a little bitch and he likes to scare people. That's part of his thing. That's part of what he would do to these women was terror.

He inflicted terror on them. He likes to do it to people when he's in prison. He likes to do it to people anytime he can. Yeah. So it's one of those things. I just like to write, it's like Albert Fish. I just like to write this shit because I get off on it Exactly, and I can spare people. He's reliving it. Yeah, this is what I would have done

Yeah, and then I watched another interview with him and he said I know a lot of serial killers in here Remember he was in prison in Florida. So in the seventies. So he did he said I know a lot of serial killers in here and none of them deny it Yeah, most of them do actually like a lot of serial killers in here and none of them deny it. Yeah, most of them do actually. Like a lot of them deny it. Yeah, most of them do. Like Ted Bundy was like, I didn't do that. He actually tried to prove his own case, if you don't remember. But in the same interview, he says,

the latest Donald Evans, you can't shut him up. Donald Evans was convicted of killing at least three people between 85 and 91. And unfortunately, he's right about that. The guy confessed like a billion times, even to people at rest stops. Like he couldn't stop confessing. But it's like, no, that you just pulled one

that's like a weird one. That's just like, like, confessing to people. Right. And then he says in this interview, he was like flexing that he like talked to other serial killers and I was like, are you all right, sir? He's like, this is a club. He said in this interview,

oddest tool I talked to him this morning. Cool. Oh, cool. It's because you're locked in a fucking cage with him because you're a goddamn evil creature from the depths of the bowels of hell's ass. Like that's not cool that you're like, oh, I talked to him this morning.

Yeah, you're locked in the same cage you idiot. Of course, you're gonna see him. Oh, I'm jealous. You dumb, you both got caught. And he says, he goes, Otis doesn't deny anything. He says, Henry Lee Lucas is lying. He says, we killed over 100 people together

and he's trying to say we didn't. So we're just believing Otis tool now. Like we've got Otis tool as the haven of truth in the unholy duo of Otis tool and Henry Lee Lucas. Is that what we in a light? We're really just looking at him. He's like, what? He's said he did.

Yeah, well, I thought he said. Oh, it's honest. Okay, yeah, totally. For sure. I'm like between the two of them. I'm good. We haven't covered them yet, but are we going to? Just you and your children.

It's going to be bad. But okay, Gerard, we get it. You're in prison in Florida. You're going to meet some bad guys. So less than two months after the trial, this is where we get back to his wife. Oh, okay, yeah, what's up? Two months after the trial. No. His lawyer, his defense attorney, Elton Schwartz, and Gerard's wife, Teresa, got married. She divorced Schaefer for this man.

She divorced Schaefer for this man. He married, like she married the man that was defending her husband against murder. His attorney married the wife of the man he was defending against what? What? Yes. What? Yes, two months after the trial. What? Teresa?

His wife, who he was still married to, married his defense attorney. What? I found what? I found what? An article from 1990 where he was requesting a new trial, because his defense attorney was just getting, he says, my defense attorney was just getting me put in jail in order to marry my wife.

I mean, that, which would be valid. Yeah. It would be valid if it was anyone else. Obviously, this guy's a raging murderist, disgusting monster, and deserves to have his attorney for his wife. But like, that's a conflict of interest. Elf and Schwartz, what the fuck were you doing?

You just gave him all the leverage in the world to claim that he didn't get a fair trial because you wanted him in jail, so you could marry his wife. What the fuck? What the fuck is wrong with you? Love makes you do crazy things. Sure does. Like, make this guy look like he has a valid point.

What the fuck? Blue my god damn mind. I don't even know of blue my mind. Yeah, I'm fried here over here. Like, what the fuck? I'm like, I'm blind. Yeah, I'm fried, he over here. Like, what the fuck? I'm just like, in this same year that this happened, his former girlfriend, Sandra London, published, self-published, excuse me,

no one was actually gonna publish this. A collection of his stories, she published them. Yeah, we have to stop here, because I'm actually physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, just done. It is called killer fiction, and I hate it. Why did she fucking do that? Why would you ever do that? Why would she do that?

The issue here, too, is these are not only his sick fucking thoughts. This is what he did. The real issue. The legitimate confessions just veiled as fiction. They're thinly veiled, too. And he just wants to tell everyone what he did without getting in trouble for it. That's all this was.

And I'm sorry. So is this the same woman that married his defense attorney? No, this is Sandra London, his former girlfriend from high school. What? Yep. And she also got involved with other serial killers. I have to, like, into this thing. You, oh, okay, yeah.

Yeah, okay. But she also, and later, she was like, oh, yeah, no, I don't want anything to do with them. But You, oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, okay. But she also, and later she was like, oh, yeah, no, I don't want anything to do with them, but I'm like, you published his stories. Why did you do that? Why would you put his stories out for the world to see? Did she ever say why she did that? She just, her interviews are wild.

You need to find her on there too, because this is him, it's another way for him to be powerful and for him to make people and to see what he has actually done right and even like for the families to know that those books are out there and even that book is out there. Even some of the inmates who are in there with him who are actual serial killers said they couldn't even read his writings. They didn't even want him to read them out loud because they were like that's too much.

Yeah. He would also, for a while, sue anyone who mentioned him in anything. Every author who mentioned him in a true crime book, he would sue them. Drag them into court. It would get dropped, but they would have to pay legal fees and all his shit would be covered. What the fuck? He even sued someone who referred to him as overweight. He sued them for referring to him as overweight. Like you could medically just like figure that out.

Yep. He also claimed that his writing was fiction. He was innocent, but he said, they were writing about me like I really did this. And it's like you are in prison for murder. You've been convicted. You are in prison. There's no smear campaign going on, sir.

You're literally a convicted murderer. And he would say I never killed anyone, but I am also the most prolific serial killer in history. He was a born again Christian or he claimed to be one, but again, he was a bullshitter of the highest order. He was also a snitch in prison. He would pretend to help other inmates with legal stuff, claiming that it was because he was in law enforcement.

He could do this. And then he would turn around and sell them all out and tell everything that they had told them. You and like, where did you think you were gonna get with that? He claimed that he had an accomplice at one point named Tony and that Tony was the one who planted those teeth in his house and Like framed them totally dude. Yeah, and this is a letter that he wrote. He was ex-girlfriend Sandra London while in prison So again, he's claiming he hasn't killed anybody, but then saying he also has killed everybody He said and this is how this is again, he's claiming he hasn't killed anybody, but then saying he also has killed everybody. He said, and this is where he, his head's at.

I'm probably at least one of the top serial killers of the century. I thought you didn't kill anyone. Yeah. I'm certainly one of the most interesting and maybe the most articulate and introspective. I'm no doubt the most skillful killer. I killed women in all ways from shooting, strangling,

stabbing, and beheading to odd ways, such as drowning, smothering, and crucifixion. One I whipped to death with a strap. Another I beat to jelly with a baseball bat while hanging her by her wrist. One drowned in her own vomit while watching me disembowel her girlfriend, so he claimed that again, which is a little scary. I think that would have happened. I've crucified women, watched the flies work on living flesh, and seen gagged women strangle

to death on their own vomitists. I've skinned women, I enjoyed each and every experience. That's what he had to say. This is the thing. Why is that letter allowed to leave prison? I never understand that shit. Thank you, because that's what I don't understand. I don't understand that shit.

How was she able to get this? Like, no, that doesn't need to leave prison walls. Because they're being read. These letters are being read before they go out. Why are you being like, fuck no, you can't write this shit. There must be like some kind of law or something. But like, I don't really think it should apply. He lodged over 20 appeals, they obviously all failed.

Just like stop wasting everyone's time and just shut up and die in there. Oh yeah, now British criminologist Colin Wilson wrote about him, and I thought it was a really great way to describe him. He said Gerard John Schaeffer was undoubtedly one of the nastiest serial killers of the 20th century. Schaeffer suffers from a kind of halitosis of the soul, and the stench quickly induces disgust. Halitosis of the soul. Halitosis of the soul is a brilliant way to describe him.

That's pretty rad. Now, December 3, 1995, when he was 49 years old. Give me a head-a-mup story. Girard John Schaefer was murdered in prison by fellow inmate Vincent Rivera. His cell door was left open. Oh, weirdly. How, how that how? I wonder how.

He was stabbed over 40 times. His throat was cut ear to ear and both of his eyes were gouged out. Hmm. Deserved. Yeah. This man deserved to have the worst done to him. I will say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. I'm fine with that one. Bye. Oh, no, absolutely. I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm actually just like not saying

yeah, I'm just here. I'm just here. I'm just here. In June, 2022, a Jane Doe from 1972 was identified as 15-year-old Susan Gail Pool. She had gone missing before Christmas in 1972, and her skeletal remains were found June 1974. She was found tied to a mangrove tree with wire. Now they are pretty sure she is one of the victims of Gerard John Shaefer. And she was finally identified this year. I'm happy that she was identified. Her family was very happy that she was identified and they are hoping to know what happened to her. Oh, God, but they did have to find out what happened.

And now he's dead, so it's hard to really find out for sure now. Right. But it was interesting that in June 2022, this is still unfolding. Wow. And that is the story of Gerard John Schaefer. Coming in at like a pretty chill two hours

and I can't see that far minutes. 16 minutes, I think. How do you see that far? Again, I was gonna cut this in two, but I was like, I don't know where to cut that. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't want to cut it in a weird spot just to cut it. Yeah, no, I know.

Sometimes you need a long episode. Sometimes, hey, maybe you're going away. People drive a lot of places. Or you can just digest this over a few days. Maybe you have so much laundry to do. So much laundry. So many dishes. So much.

That was a terrible one. Yeah. I'm glad it's over. I'm glad it's out of my system and into yours now. I'm sorry about that. Give someone a hug. Give someone a hug. I don't even care if you like hugs. I don't'm sorry about that. Give someone a hug. Give someone a hug. I don't even care if you like hugs. I don't even like them.

Go give somebody a hug. This guy sucked in every way, out of any human could ever suck. That man put it perfectly. Hallitosis of the soul. Hallitosis of the soul. That reminds me, here's a little palette cleanser for you. You know that book, Hallitosis, that I used to read to. Yes, to the girls during TT Bedtime.

Yeah, it's a good book. That was also the ex-girlfriend of Salem, Saber Hagen on Sabrina, the teenage witch, was Hally, Tosus. Oh my God, I forgot about that. Yep, this rich can connect anything to the new that. I can do that. Sabrina, the teenage witch.

And I will. And I think that's where we should end this, right? I think it is, but again, guys, go read that book by Patrick Kendrick, the American R and I will I will tag it in here There's also there's a I mean there's a ton of articles on the internet about the sky and there's a ton of newspaper articles you can read on newspapers.com because I love that that site so much. I fucking love newspapers.com But honestly like Kendrick did an amazing job and go listen to those other podcast I didn't listen to all of them, but I'm going to now.

But I listened to part of the notorious podcast where they interviewed him and it was really fascinating. I've been meaning to listen to that show. Really well done. Yeah, I've heard really great things. I'll link that in here. I'm gonna start listening to that. So there you go.

And buy that book, Hallytosis for your kids. They bought a dog with bad breath saving the family. There you go. And watch that book, Hallytosis for your kids. They buy a dog with bad breath, saving the family. Take a, and watch this Sabrina the Teenage Witch Elf episode with Hallytosis, the ex girlfriend. And we hope you're listening, and we hope you keep it weird. I'm literally never gonna tell you not to give it as weird as you're out of shape or because if I have to tell you that you should probably

not be walking this earthly planet. Nah, love you, bye. Bye, listen up under. Bye, bye. Anda. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.