Morbid - Episode 366: JonBenet Ramsey Part 1

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

6 year-old JonBenet Ramsey was murdered December 1996 in her home in Boulder, Colorado. Her death remains a mystery to this day with various theories and suspects floating around, but never caught. Who killed this beautiful little girl? Who wrote the staged 2.5 page ransom note found in her home? When will answers finally arrive from a crime scene that was outrageously contaminated from the start? This is Part 1 of our revisit to this case where we talk about the girl behind the pageant photos, the crime and the autopsy that followed. Check out this book:Foreign Faction by James Kolar Change.org petition Justice for JonBenet to allow DNA testing from the crime scene created by John RamseySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Whether it's routine maintenance and emergency repair or a dream project, Angie lets you browse home on her reviews, compare quotes from multiple local pros, and even book a service instantly. So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out

of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alena. And this is morbid in the morning. Morbid in the morning. And this is a redo, a remix, a remaster. We decided to revisit the Shambhane Ramsey case because one, there's been a little talk of it in the news lately

with the possibility of DNA testing happening. And I just thought we could do a better job with this case. I think the original Jominate episodes were recorded when we were recording separately too. So the audio was like really terrible. Let me just know that we could do it better. Yeah, I thought there's more stuff has come out.

There was stuff that I just didn't talk about or I felt like I rushed through. So I figured I would take the time to do what is going to be only a two-part. It's not going to go further than that. We'll see. Two parts. I'm capping it at that because we're going to talk about the crime. We're going to talk about some of like the crazy stuff involved in the crime and the crime scene, the autopsy in part one and then part two we're gonna really discuss the intruder theory and we're gonna discuss some of the suspects that have come out. All right, so just putting it out there right now I do not know who killed Jean-Petet Ramsey. I'm not going to say what my thoughts are on that because I don't know.

Yeah. I wasn't there. You guys, so, you know, you have yours. I have mine. We all will take them in our heads and then someday DNA will confirm one of them. Yeah. That's all. But right now, I just wanna say that John Ramsey,

John Bones' father, did launch a change.org petition where he asked the Colorado government to allow an independent agency to test DNA found at John Bones crime scene. Okay. And it's pushing very hard to have that happen. Wow. So there's that.

They're still petitioning, as we speak, police to allow Parabond Nano Labs, which we've heard before. That's like a pretty big lab that will test like especially old DNA. They're petitioning to have them test the DNA. Jummane's half brother, John Andrew, is also helping his father try to get this push forward. Nice. And in August, they did, Joe Biden did put forward a law that they were like really, the Ramses were really, really like strong supporters of that allows victims' families to help reopen cold cases. That's awesome.

So that was a big deal. John Ramsey told K-I-R-O-O-7 news, quote, we want to do whatever can be done technically and resource wise to find the killer of our daughter. And if we do that, and we can't, then we will have to live with it. But we do not, but to not do it is criminal and negligent and lazy. The Boulder police have said they are actively reviewing genetic DNA testing processes to try to make this happen, but it has not happened yet. All right. And I think there was a lot of like sensational news coming out about it recently that everyone's like, we're going to know within hours. What they were saying was if they give the DNA to Parabond nanolabs, they could potentially have an answer in hours.

Okay. That's what they're saying. But at this point, they have not been able to do that. At this point, it looks like they have not been allowed to do that. They have in the green light or whatever. We will all update if and when that happens, but yeah. All right. So I just wanted to start that, and now let's talk about Jean-Benei Ramsey. Jean-Benei Patricia Ramsey was born August 6, 1990

in Boulder, Colorado. She was born to John Bennett Ramsey in Patricia Patsy Ramsey. Together they had Jean-Bene who was six at the time of this crime, and her brother, Burke, who was nine years old at the time of this crime. John was the president of Access Graphics,

which is a computer company. They were a very well-off family, you know, a very, like, well-off family. They lived in, like, this beautiful, like, tutor-style home. That home is beautiful. Yeah, it's a really beautiful house. But apparently, it's, like, a very maze-like house. A lot of their, their form and housekeeper actually said

that we'll talk about her in the second part, for sure. But she said it's, like, very labyrinthian, so it can be, like like very confusing to get around. Okay. But not ideal. Yeah. But Patricia was his second wife. He had three children from his first marriage,

a son and two daughters. One daughter Elizabeth actually passed away in a 1992 car crash. Oh, I remember that. Yeah, so that's like a really sad. A lot of tragedy. Definitely. Patricia Patsy was a former beauty queen from West Virginia.

She had held the title of Miss West Virginia. So that's like a big deal. She was beautiful for sure. Oh yeah. This was a big point of pride for her. She carried it down to her daughter, Jean-Bene, who also had entered Pagins from a very young age like baby. Jean-Benae had one America's Royal Miss, Little Miss,

what is it, Little Miss Charlotte Roy, Little Miss Colorado, National Tiny Miss Beauty, Colorado State All Star Kids Cover Girl. I think she's one more, but that's like a good lineup that I found. There you go. I'm not going to share my thoughts on pageants. Pageants are definitely not easy for a kid this age.

They're not just them walking out and being like, yay, and then it's like that's it. It's like a lot of hard work. You've seen toddlers in Tierra's, I know it. Yeah, I have not, but. Not you, I'm not. Yeah, but I know that. I do have a lot.

I know you have. She was wearing a lot of makeup. We're very interesting and adult costumes at times. And had a flip. Did you have a flipper? Yeah, I was just gonna talk about that. Actually, she also had her hair lightened. Yeah. It was bleached.

And I was just gonna say kids that age usually were flippers to cover missing teeth, which I never understood because it's normal and adorable for kids that are sick to have missing teeth. That's like one of the hilarious and adorable parts of six-year-olds. It's not like you're like old Miss California like showing up on stage with no teeth.

Well, that's the thing. So if these pageants are looking to like truly find an adorable child who is age-appropriate and not a baby who has been turned into an adult, then why would missing teeth matter in the judging process? I would not happen to know. Wouldn't it only help? Like to me, that would only help because they're children and they should be looked at as

children. And you should be like, oh my god, look at that cute little baby with her missing front teeth. Like, that's a baby. That's cute. We're supposed to be judging them based off of them being a child, but that to me just proves that they're being judged to look like an adult. Yeah, 100%.

Which again, I'm not going to share my thoughts on. Yeah, that's why I just said, yeah. You know what? I was almost a pageant, baby. I wouldn't allow that to happen. No, you know what? You know what? My mom actually wouldn't allow to happen.

My grandma on my dad's side like really wanted me to do pageants and my mom was like, mmm, I don't think so. You know what, that checks out. It does, it checks out. I think I'm not positive if my grandma on that side did pageants, but. But she wanted you to.

She sure did. Cause you are beautiful, baby. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. I don't either. I don't know. I don't either. I don't know either. So there was definitely some pageant mom behavior that was really focused on later when this case broke. It is unfortunate that that became the focus of this case, I think.

Yeah, because that shouldn't be the focus. Because the focus should be just the fact that Jumbo Ne. Yeah, it's tough't be the focus. Because the focus should be just the fact that Jambane was killed. Yeah, it's tough. We all did it. We all looked at this and we're like, what the fuck is going on there? That was my first thought. It was like, what is happening here?

I know that people get really upset now. Like when you say it was a different time, but it's literally just a fact. It truly was. Like, it was like, as a collective society, we're growing back then and growing to where we are now. And I think we've got to a place where we can look at it a little more, like a little different. Exactly, and we can look at it like,

I think we've all seen that the media doesn't give you the full story. And I think back then we were looking at it and going, holy shit, this is it. Yeah, that's all, like they're giving us all very, very sensationalized. Yeah, and it's like, I think now then we were looking at it and going, holy shit, this is it. Yeah. That's all, like they're giving us all. Very sensationalized. Yeah, and it's like I think now we are better equipped as a society, at least slightly, some of us,

to look at it and go, okay, that is part of the story. Sure. But there's more to this, and I shouldn't really just take this at face value of what's splashed on a tablet page. Exactly, like let's dig a little deeper, because I've seen, and I know you've seen in your research, like particular sources, you double check it, and it's not even correct. And it's not correct. That's the thing. So I think that's the reason too. Why we want to reduce some of these that we did even in the beginning of the podcast. Absolutely.

Because we even look at things differently now. Absolutely. Wow. By doing this podcast, I feel like I look at things differently. So that's why some of these are being redone because it's just like, I can look at this differently and more complete now. Yeah. And I feel like I can give a better, like I can give you guys something better to look at and make your own decision on. Yeah.

I mean, three to four years ago, like you do, you do change a lot, especially when you're doing this day in and day out. And I think it's, I like to go into things now, like less with like, this is what I think happen, even if it's, you know, I mean. And more like, here are the facts, make your own decision. Yeah, it's like, I just wanna try to give you what happened and you guys have, you know,

until we have definitive answers. This is all we can go off of. But no matter what, it's really hard to argue against the fact that there was 100% some pageant mom behavior here. Yeah, like a six year old tear in my opinion, and I would hope a lot more people's opinion should not be enlightened. No, I don't agree with that at all.

Like I agree with you. Yeah. And a lot of the pictures are very disturbing to look at. In my opinion, that's just me. I think a lot of them are very disturbing, but that doesn't mean that anybody, you know, that doesn't make anybody a killer. No, it just makes, you know, a questionable choice.

That's all. But a story that did stick with me that I read in a couple of sources was that her friend actually came over once and she noticed Jean-Benaise numerous trophies and crowns and all that. And they were in this very big case, all displayed. And the friend was like, wow, those are so pretty.

Like, wow. Yeah, like, two-hands. And she, so she said this is John Bene, and John Bene said, they're not really mine. They're more my mom's trophies. That's not. That broke my heart into pieces, and that was like, ooh, that's bad.

Wanted to have that realization at like five, six years old. Yeah, like this isn't for me. This is for my mom. And it's like, I do know that that happens a lot. That people will try to live by Kari sleep through their kids. Yeah, don't do it. Yeah, I think a lot of times it happens and parents don't realize. Well, that's the thing. Sometimes I think it's completely like I think they I I believe that Patsey probably convinced herself that Jean-Betay love doing this. Absolutely. Because

she loved doing this. So it's and it's a thing they can do together. A lot of love. But there's that. Now people who knew the family very well say that she wasn't forced to perform. She wasn't forced to do this. She just loved being on stage. She could be shining quiet outside of that, but she really loved the stage. She flourished on there.

Try theater. Yeah. According to the Denver Post, She loved the stage. She like flourished on there. Try theater. Yeah. According to the Denver Post, family members said about Jean-Bene, whenever her uncle's actually said, the beauty pageant thing that was a very, very small part of her life, 99% of her life was spent as a typical six-year-old. What we see on TV and in pictures,

that's not who Jean-Bene was. And that's sad. And I think that's another thing that the media does is, I'm sure there are photos of Jean-Bene, where she looked like Jean-Beney was. And that's sad. And I think that's another thing that the media does is, I'm sure there are photos of Jean-Beney where she looked like Jean-Beney. Exactly. She wasn't all done up in a big glitzy crown and dress and everything like glit.

Exactly. Let's show a picture of her and her friends, you know? I know, that's the, that's. Let's show a school picture. Yeah, and it's like, that's the thing, and they do that with a lot of these cases where they'll only show certain photos that kind of go

to a certain image. And it's like, you know, she's brutally murdered six-year-old. Can we show photos of her that are like, like you said, like her just being a six-year-old? Like do we have to splash all those to further perpetuate like pedophiles and like people who will take those in a way that they shouldn't. Like we really don't need to do that. Like just show her as a six-year old so everybody can be like wow that like start like actually grief for her. Right. But you know whatever. Now in the same article she's described as being a

very loving, spunky, and very kind child. She loved fruit roll-ups and anything with sparkles. She also would give presents to Santa to thank him for gifts that he had gotten her. Like she was that sweet. Her teachers and friends at school all described her as positive, very intelligent. Neighbors said she was helpful and just adorable, like a sweet little light to have around. And I'll get into the, there's like Santa theories and stuff in this. That's going to happen in part two. Oh, I don't even remember those. Yeah, there's one man Bill McRennelts who got like put on the suspects list by theorists basically

and he was like this, he would play Santa at the parties and actually she gave him a, and I'll get into this more in part two, but I'll just mention it. She had given him a vial of gold glitter. Oh, and he took it into his heart surgery with him. Yeah. Because he said, he said, he was like, she just like,

her kindness really touched me. Yeah. And he was like, old. Whatever. And he talked about it later. And was like, she was just like, she really like, touched me. She was just like, she really touched me. She was just like a sweet little girl and gave me that

because she thought I was Santa. People love to read into things. And again, we'll get more into that whole theory again. But it's kind of a bummer that like everything gets twisted in this case no matter what. So December 25th, 1996, Patricia, John, John, Benet, and Burke went to a Christmas party at a very close family friend's home.

This home was at the White's home. That was Fleet and Priscilla White. They were very close family friends. John Benet, you know, she party, she had some food, she hung out, she opened her presents, then she fell asleep on the way home in the car. So her parents did what every parent has done before. John carried his sleeping daughter to her bedroom.

She went to sleep wearing white long John type leggings and a white long sleep t-shirt with a silver sequin star on the front of it. She knew. Now December 26, 1996, this was very early. According to Patricia, she woke up in the five o'clock hour in the morning, and she found a two and a half page handwritten ransom note on a staircase at the bottom of the staircase when she went down there.

Like woke up, brushed her teeth, walked down there. This is what she finds. The note claimed to be from a kidnapper who claimed that they had John Bene, they wanted money for her safe return, but it was a very strange, long, threatening, weird ransom note. Yeah. It was then that she said, that she said,

she ran upstairs, found that John Bene was not in her bed, and then woke up, John. Now, this is what the ransom note said. Mr. Ramsay, listen carefully. We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business, but not the country that it serves. At this time, we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed, and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter. You will withdraw $118,000 from your account.

Remember that number. A hundred, a hundred thousand will be in a hundred dollar bills, and the remaining $18,020 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home, you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between eight and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting,

so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier pick up delivery, delivery, and that was like kind of exed out, pick up of your daughter. Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will be denied her remains for proper burial.

The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you, so I advise you do not provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as police, FBI, et cetera, will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies.

You will be scanned for electronic devices if any of any are found, she dies. You can try to deceive us, but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us. Follow our instructions, and you stand a 100% chance

of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow brain, John. You are not the only fat cat around, so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't try to grow brain, John. You are not the only fat cat around. So don't think that that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good Southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now, John. Jesus. And then it says victory exclamation point, SBTC.

SBTC. There's a lot of, so I saw a lot of people talking about how this seems like something that they got out of like a movie. Like a detective magazine. It's outrageously long. A lot of people mentioned why did they say like bring an adequate size attaché to the bank? Like why does that matter? Why would you even write that?

What even is an attaché? Like a bag of something like something to put the money in. And I'm like you're sitting here kidnapping a child and you have time to write out attaché? That's the thing. And it's like, and then what was the other, like, I saw in a couple of sources that they were talking about, like, be well-rested.

Like, how is he going to be well-rested? You've kidnapped his child. And also, like, why do you care? Yeah. Like, what does that matter? That's a weird thing to write. The $118,000 is the strangest amount and very low for ransom of an actual human child.

Yeah. There's also the, like, when they say, hold on, let me see the, well, when they say you stand at 99% chance of killing your daughter if you tried to outsmart us. Why are you only putting it at 99%? Right, you've said if he tries to outsmart you, this is gonna happen, this is gonna happen,

this is gonna happen. But now you're being like, there's a 1% chance you could fucking outsmart us. It's like, who's gonna give that up? Like these guys are being like, well, fucking kill your daughter. Don't fucking try to fuck with us. And then they're like, but you have a 1% chance of fucking outsmarting us.

I have never, ever, ever thought that this letter was real. No, I don't at all. And then people have pointed out that it begins with Mr. Ramsay. But then at the end, it says, don't try to grow brain, John. Right. So suddenly we're on a first name basis. You started this out with Mr. Ramsay. One minute about, Mr., why wouldn't you write Mr. Ramsey. But then at the end it says don't try to grow brain, John. So suddenly we're on a first name business. You started this out with Mr. Ramsey. One minute about Mr. Why wouldn't you write Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey?

Oh, don't worry. They wrote that in the practice note. Yeah. They wrote Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey. But this one's only to Mrs. Ramsey. They also, it's weird. I saw people pointing out that it's weird that they said we respect your business. Because you don't.

You said we don't like your business and we don't like who you work with. And also like, again, if you're, you kidnapped his daughter for ransom and you're claiming you're going to behead her. Right. Like, and you're saying like we respect your business. Like why would you even let that out if you did? Like, it's just a very strange, none of it makes sense. No.

At all. No. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music, I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Laurie Valow, a.k.a. Mummy Doomstays Motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder?

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You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wond the app. So there was a partial draft of the note found in the home written on Patsy's note pad. Weird. This note came from a no pad Patsy's note pad that was in the home. It was written by a pen that was on the counter. So they didn't come in with paper and a pen. They found one in the house. Which again, if you're going into kidnap a child, like you would think quickly, you would come prepared with a ransom note. That's the thing. You're not going to write the ransom note in the house during all the mayhem. No. You would bring the ransom note with you. Right. And you would not leave the pen behind that you used to write the ransom note. Yeah.

These are the pieces of the puzzle that people, Peter Piper picked up. Well, I said a lot of pieces. You did. These are, this is the piece of the puzzle that people do not understand. Yeah. How you explain this part, and I don't. And the practice. That's the thing.

And I would love to know if it was ever asked, like, where do you keep this pen? Not this pen, excuse me, this pot of paper. They did ask. It was sitting on the counter and like a little, like the pen was in a little cup and it was like out there. OK, OK. But on another piece of paper in the pad,

Detective Jeff Kithart, who was the handwriting expert for the Boulder police, leader found a started and abandoned ransom note that said, and it said, one of them said, Mr. and Mrs. and then a line. And it appeared that they'd started to write an R, but it had stopped. It was like a line to begin an R.

Sure. So the first one says, Mr. and Mrs. like, not only did you come into this house without a ransom note and took the time to write this ransom note there, but you didn't even know if you were writing it to. Right. Like you actually at first were like,

I'm gonna write it to both of them. Then you were like, no, I'm gonna write it to him. Why wouldn't you write it to both of them? Well, that's the thing. Now, because I think because it wouldn't fit the narrative that this was business. Yeah. Now, John received a bonus of exactly $118,000 for that Christmas, which people have pointed to and I originally pointed to as,

there you go, that's how would anybody know that. But I will say the bank statement was out on the counter. Okay. So someone could have seen the amount deposited and they could have used that as like, and here's my thought process on that, because I'm just trying to give all angles here just with facts. Absolutely.

They could, these, whatever happened here, whoever did this, there was no ransom ever being, this was never a kidnapping. No. In my opinion, this wasn't up kidnapping that went bad. This was never a kidnapping. They would have come into the house with a ransom note, the end.

So this was all supposed to be staged. So they might have just looked at that 118 and were like, I'll use that number. Like it's just like, they didn't want that money. They didn't think they were getting that money. No. They never called to get that money. No.

There just was never that happening. So if this is an intruder, then they could have looked, known they had to do this quick, and looked at that and said, okay, $118,000 just went into his bank account. I'm gonna write that. Like they could have just done that. Exactly. Or it can be someone closer to that new that that money was there.

And that could have been like a business, you know? Yeah. But there's that. Why didn't you also think though, I don't know about the, like it was the bank slip on the table. But when you think that you would ask for more because you're like, oh, if he just deposited that much into his account, then he must have more.

Like, he probably has money. And like, you're looking around this beautiful home. That's the thing. Then 118 is a very strange. Even if you'd think. See that on the table, right? Like, exactly. But then it's like, if this is like somebody

who hates his business and is like a business arrival, maybe that's like a, that's like a pin point to be like. Like I was supposed to get that for you. We know what your Christmas bonus is. Okay. That's what we want for your daughter. But it's again, very strange because it's like for a human, that is a very low ransom.

It is. And for somebody who is wealthy. And that's the thing, like if you know him and you know him well, you know that he's wealthy and why wouldn't you shoot your shot to get more. Yeah, that's the thing. In my opinion. No, it's true, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

The other thing is, this is a fucking long note. Yeah, what if some notes are not long? Did you say it took like 21 minutes to write? It took 21 minutes to write this in the house. That is crazy. And it was two and a half pages long. Yeah, like usually a ransom note is like a piece of paper. The FBI literally said that this is un-unprecedented. Yeah.

Ransom note. They've never seen something like that before. Because yeah. Nothing. And in 2015, former Boulder Colorado police Chief Mark Beckner said, quote, the FBI told us they'd never seen a 2.5 page ransom note. No note has ever been written at the scene and then left at the scene with the dead victim at the scene other than this case.

And wouldn't you also think that you would take the practice note with you? That's one. Throw it in the trash even. Do something. Right. And also, if you are now trying to make this, like, get the money, like if you're really trying to, like, stage this, you would take her out of the house. Of course you would.

So that you could still pretend that she was alive. Mm-hmm. You wouldn't leave her in the house so that they find her and then the ransom thing is over. Right. Unless your thought process is we don't actually want the money, we just want to hurt him and we want to find his daughter. Yeah. There's sides, but to me, it's a strange. Why would you go through the whole entire business?

Exactly. No. And why would you even write the ransom? I just think it would be like, completely. If you were going to sit down and write a letter and we all know that she was in the basement, I think you would write a very different cruel letter. Right? Like here are the steps to go.

If that, yeah, that's a terrible, you know. And again, like, that's a long time to sit in someone's home in the middle of the night. Right. After killing their six-year-old daughter. Yeah. And just taking 21 minutes to write a note. And presumably, and I know we should. Like, holy shit.

Like, holy shit. And I know we should get into this. Presumably also stopping for a snack. Yeah. Or just like, it's very strange. It's very strange. And again, 21 minutes. Like, 20, what intruder does that? No. That's a lot of people have a lot of,

that's the part that people are having trouble wrapping their brain around. Of course. And I continue to have trouble wrapping my brain around. Some of this stuff you can sit there and go, okay, I can go to an intruder theory with this, like I can go somewhere else with this, but this, I don't understand this. No. But like I can go somewhere else with this, but this, I

don't understand this. No. But like, I mean, strange things happen, but this is real strange. So experts think the note writer intended to disguise their natural handwriting. They don't think that this was their, their organic handwriting. They were trying to disguise it. A 1997 Vanity Fair article spoke to quote, an investigator closely involved with the testing of the ransom note. And they said that they analyzed 74 handwriting

samples and Patricia Ramsey's handwriting was the only sample that quote set off alarm bells. So there's that. In 2001, handwriting analysis, or excuse me, analyst Larry Ziegler and Gideon Epstein thought Patricia could be the writer of the note. Okay. handwriting excuse me, Colorado Bureau of investigation report said quote, and this is the Colorado Bureau of Investigations report. Said quote, there are indications that the author of the ransom notice Patricia Ramsey. Okay. So there are a lot of people looking at it and saying that they believe that she might have

written it, but on the other hand, handwriting analysis can be... A little funky. Yeah. And even in their reports, like it's not definitive, it's just... None of them are saying she's absolutely 100%. Exactly. But weird. If you look at her handwriting next to this handwriting, it's pretty close.

And there's a lot of little things, hand writing quirks that they look at that are the same throughout. I remember watching, I think it was a few years ago, I actually think it was right around the time that you would cover this case. I remember seeing the handwriting myself and the comparison, it's very similar. It is, but then you have to, it's, these are the things that you can look at both sides.

Yes, absolutely. Because they're not definitive, but they're slightly damning in some ways. So it's like one of those things. And again, like what that person wrote could set off alarm bells. Yeah, exactly. So there's like one of those things. And again, like what that person wrote could set off a alarm bells. Yeah, exactly. So there's that. That, that is a thing. And that has been remained a thing that her handwriting is very similar. It's the only one that made them really go, did she ever say anything

about that that you know of? She's always denied any of that. And like, you know, would say the same thing we're saying that like people's handwriting can look in if they were disguising their handwriting, then that's not my handwriting. Right. So there's that. If people do have similar handwriting, for sure. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Now, Pat C called 911 at 5.52 AM.

After she got in, we're going to get into the 911 call, but after she called, she immediately called friends and family right after. The note said specifically, not to do any of that or your daughter dies. And now we are watching you. Like monitoring. I get that this may just be instinct that you need to call people because you're panicking.

Yeah. But if a note says your daughter is gonna be beheaded and we're watching you, don't call anyone, except 911. Yeah. Like, get a police officer there. I like, you know what I mean? Like, I understand that. And that's the other thing about this case.

Is it easy to look on the outside and say, why did you do this? But we don't know a little when you're in the actual panic of like your child being missing. So you can go, okay, some of these things can be a hysterical parent. Absolutely. That just makes that decision. Other things questionable.

Uh-huh. For sure. Now, Kimberly Archoleta was the 9-1-1 operator that took the Ramsey phone call that morning. She told Kimberly Archoleta that she wasn't sure how long her daughter had been missing and was literally begging police to get there. It's a very harrowing 911 call. You can listen to it.

She sounds absolutely terrified in the 911 call. Before she hangs up the phone, you can hear her kind of like mumble to herself, like help me, Jesus, help me. And she never says Jean-Bene's name. She never says her name is Jean-Bene Ramsey. She also hung up the phone very abruptly. Didn't wait for instructions, didn't wait for them to say, hang on the phone with me until the police get there. She just down goes the phone. Which is, again, definitely weird. Yeah. You're panicking, you're trying to run around.

I don't even know if she woke John up at this point. Now this is one that people can definitely look at different ways. I don't understand that. Yeah, and you have kids obviously. I can say your lifeline would be nine, one at that point. Absolutely. And you would be like, I would be on there

until the police got there. Just to be like, I don't want to lose you. I don't want them to get lost on the way here. Please keep telling me they're coming. Tell me that they're outside. Tell me that they're here. Like that would be my thought. I would think, because that would be like,

just your safe. Like somebody needs to get here and help us. Yeah. And if you hang up, you've ended that lifeline and you just have to wait to see when they show up. And it's like I would want somebody being like, they're around the corner, they're on your street, they're pulling in your driveway,

they're coming up your walkway, they're in your house. Like, you know, like I want to hear everything. You will do that. They will, and usually they tell you stay on the line with me until they're in your house. Exactly. So Archie Let out the operator, actually told Dateline that she immediately thought

something wasn't right about the call. She said that the end of the call was strange, because again, she ended the call abruptly, and she didn't say anything that indicated an end to the call. And the phone didn't actually disconnect. She said like it just kind of went back on the cradle, but didn't actually disconnect. And because remember, this is went back on the cradle, but didn't actually disconnect. And because remember, this is a landline. This is back in the 90s.

Oh, I'm picturing like my old kitchen. Yeah. So, she, so Archuleta claims she heard not only John and Patricia speaking muffled right after that. She put down that phone, but she heard a third voice. So that was a little more faint. Now, this is strange because they claim later that Burke, who was the only other person in the house, the nine-year-olds, was asleep during this call. He was not near them or awake at this time. So, people have listened to the audio of this call, lots of different experts, and they hear various things in these muffled voices a little bit, but it's all pretty much the same. There's not a lot of variation with what they hear. They hear a couple of these muffled voices a little bit, but it's all pretty much the same.

There's not a lot of variation with what they hear. They hear a couple of different things. It's a little, when you listen to it with an untrained ear, I think it's a little like EVPs where you can probably hear what you want to hear if you try hard enough. But mainly what they hear is a male voice who is thought to be John Ramsey saying angrily, we're not speaking to you. And then they hear a female voice thought to be Patsy, say, help me Jesus, help me Jesus. Then they hear a young male child say, well, what did you find? Yeah. Now, also, according to an article by Bella Brennan,

Kim, the 911 operator, was quoted as saying about Patsy, quote, if you hear the frantic in her voice as she's speaking to me, where she couldn't even answer my questions, it immediately stopped. It sounded like she said, okay, we've called the police now, what? And that disturbed me.

Yeah, of course. Because she said basically that panic, panic, panic, that phone went down, she thought she hung it up and then she turned and said, we called the police now what? Yep. So Kim said, so I remained on the phone trying to listen to what was being said.

It sounded like there were two voices in the room, maybe three different ones. I had a bad feeling about this. To me, it sounded rehearsed. Lee.. She said one of the reasons why even stayed on until they disconnected was because there were things being said that people needed to know. It was never addressed. I think it really would have turned the case around. Probably. Now, apparently later when Archie let it got the news, Kim, that John Bene was found in her home brutally murdered, because she went, she

left that shift, obviously not knowing how that ended. And you said that, I think we were talking about this before you said it was her last call of her shift. She said she was inconsolable when she found out she was murdered. And she kept telling her boss and her family that something bothered her about that call, and she told them they had to tell authorities to listen to the end of the call, because she was like, now it was weighing on me. Like, they found that child dead in her home.

Like, I knew something was weird with that call. They ended up sending the tape to aerospace technicians. And they declared that there were three different voices at the end of that call, those aerospace technicians. And after Patsy had meant to hang up, that's when they heard it. Apparently, a ton of the technicians at Aerospace all listened to the call by themselves, like independently.

All of them said they heard the exact same conversation. Wow. And they had like, they'd like take away background noise there and they like really clean the audio a little bit. So they called in the Boulder police who sent Detective Melissa Hickman to listen at aerospace. She listened independently as well. They put her, they did not tell her what they heard.

They sent her into a room and said, listen to this, tell us what you hear. They had all heard the same conversation, including Detective Hickman. I remember listening to the 911 call again when that documentary came out and I heard the exact same thing. Yeah, I am now, when now that we have that conversation, it's hard to hear anything else, which can be a little confirmation biasy, but it sounds like it. And the three distinct voices do sound like there on that, because you do hear, of a man, you hear the patsy literally like, just like upsets. And you hear a child. And you hear a little child voice.

And definitely like a male child. And they all said the same thing. We're not speaking to you. Help me Jesus. Help me Jesus. Well, what did you find? And that, what did you find? Just like, it just creeps me out. And we're gonna mention it again,

but when everybody shows up, Burke is asleep and sleeps through all of it. And people go into the room and look, and they see that he's just in his bed of sleep. He never woke up through the chaos in the house. And so a lot of people are like, was he just told to lay there and pretend to be asleep through this whole thing?

Yeah. And was that him on the tape and he was awake? Because they claimed he never woke up. Right. They had to wake him up. Yeah. Again, that's a theory. Yeah.

But whatever. So another interesting note is that Patsy told Archuleta during the 911 call and you can hear when you listen to the call, that the note said, she goes, it says, SBTC victory. That's all she tells her about the note, is that it says that. But she told police later,

I only read the first line of the note before I ran up to look for Jean-Benae and called John. I dropped the note back where it was. And John said, he moved the note away. So how did she know that at the I dropped the note back where it was. And John said he moved the note away. So how did she know that at the end of the note, it said SPTC victory. Right. Unless...

Unless she happened to see that. Right. Or unless John said that and passing, it was like, what the fuck would that mean? That could have been it. They could have had a conversation before the 911 call that she just didn't recall. Mm-hmm.

She could have quickly seen the SPTC at the end. That would be a little strange because it said two and a half page note and she said she only saw the first line so she would have had to flick through to the end of the note. Just giving all angles here. But interestingly, a 911 call came in three days before this from the Ramsey household. Did you say this last time? I don't know if I did to be honest. I don't know if I remember this. A 911 call came in three days before this from the Ramsey household. Did you say this last time? I don't know if I did, to be honest.

I don't know if I remember this. It was at 6.48 pm on December 23rd. And the operator answered and no one said anything, then hung up the phone. Oh. Police were ditched, spatched to the home, but no report was made. Okay. Report should always be made. Yeah, I was like, that was weird.

It was just a strange little. I know that I have friends. I have a friend who literally snatched out at me the other day. Like, oh, it's 8.35. And my kids already called 911. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because I had friends who did that before

and the polls showed up. Yeah. Kids do do. They do. Kids do do. They 911 calls. Kids do do they do kids do do they nine one one calls kids do do that Two police officers responded to the scene that morning like of the actual nine one 911 call within three minutes of that call. One was Officer Rick Frunch. Now, according to foreign faction by James Colart, which is a really

great book about this case. So the police officers on scene noted that, and again, this is three minutes after the 911 call. So this is like barely six o'clock. Yeah. According to the book, the police officer said that John Ramsey was wearing a pinstripe button up in khakis. And Patsy was wearing black slacks, a red sweater, and her hair and makeup were done. Oh, I know everyone handles things differently, but I could not get to rest or do makeup when my six year old was supposedly kidnapped from her bedroom. No, the makeup is... And did she say previously that when she had woken up, she put makeup on? She didn't say that.

I heard that she woke up. Brushy brushy teeth. Maybe she just didn't say that she did her full routine before walking down the stairs. And that is a possibility. Some people are early risers and they get everything done before they before walking down the stairs. And that is a possibility. Some people are early risers and they get everything done before they even walk down the stairs. Yeah, and like we don't know how much makeup she was wearing.

Yeah, yada yada yada. Just to, you know. Yeah, the whole point of this is to give both sides and let you guys decide for yourselves what your theory is because again, we don't know. We don't have a definitive answer here. But strange. Definitely.

Definitely a strange look for everybody to be fully done up when this happened. But you know, like, I just have to say it. Rich people are weird. Like, they want to put like appearances first. So maybe that it was like a respect thing. And then she's a pageant gal. And there's southern too, so it may have very much been a respect thing.

Like these people are coming into our home, we need to be dressed. Well, and maybe that it wasn't even for the police. Maybe this is just, she's a pageant gal. She gets up early. She gets up. She gets up. She gets her full shit done, and she doesn't walk down the stairs before she looks a plus. And we don't know. John may have been getting dressed as Passy Ranin

and told him what was happening. Yeah. And he'd just maybe finished getting dressed. Maybe he was in the middle of getting dressed. We have no idea. We don't know. And both sides are valid arguments. But if not, if we did know, and like they did get dressed after...

That's weird. Calling the NIMO and call, I agree that's fucking. Yeah, that's weird. So there's that. But it's and they noted that that was that was strange. Absolutely. That was strange to the police officers. Yeah. Now, Patsy told Rick French that she had gone to John Bene's bedroom and saw that she was not in it as soon as she woke up, which is not what she had originally said. And then she said she had gone downstairs and found the ransom note.

That's not what she said. And we're gonna get back to that in a second. Now, Sergeant Paul Reichenbach showed up and ordered that no one used the police frequency just in case the kidnappers were listening on scanners. Okay. So they were like, we don't wanna alert them that we are here because that is part of the whole thing.

So no one used frequencies to talk about this. They just don't want to alert them that we are here because that is part of the whole thing. So no one used frequencies to talk about this. They just didn't want to risk Jambanese safety because at this point, this is a kidnapping. So they searched around the home, but they didn't find anything suspicious or any signs of forced entry anywhere. Offers it, and everybody claimed, we locked all the doors, everything was locked.

And John Ramsey said that we locked everything. It was all locked, that's the name. Yeah. Nothing was unlocked when they came in. So Officer Rick French went into the basement and he went through. He came across the second door down there that ended up leading into a little wine cellar and it had a wooden latch that locked it. And he said he stopped in front of the door but never opened it.

Instead he went back upstairs. Jean-Bene was behind that door the entire time. Why didn't he go into that door? The world's may never fucking know. Yeah. I don't understand that at all. You are searching the whole entire home. There's a missing child, but then he came out later and said, well, this was a kidnapping.

We didn't think she was in the home. And it's like, but the problem is you're going in with preconceived ideas. Like, you're supposed to let the scene speak to you. Uh-huh. Not you speak for the scene. Right. And a forensic team arrived and we're starting to like do the sweep. And at this time, again, everyone was assuming she was abducted

and removed from the home, so they only cordoned off her bedroom. Right. Which would have been where she would have been stolen from, obviously, I understand, again, the initial logic of this thinking that she was obviously taken from her bedroom. Right. But stop assuming shit at the crime scene. Let it tell you what's happening.

And sure, she's taken from her bedroom, but we don't know that that's where the note was written. And my assumption, I would assume it was written either like at the kitchen table or in the living room at the coffee table, like, you know. This is what doesn't make sense to me, exactly that. So you're assuming she was taking from her bedroom shirt. Absoluogical.

The person had to walk through the house, which means there's tons of evidence that can be taken. That's right. Had to stand in that kitchen and write that note, had to walk over to the staircase and put them there, and then walk somewhere else to get out. And you don't know how they got out because there's no signs of forced entry or exit.

So you should be treating this entire house as a crime scene because you have no fucking clue how they got in or how they got that kid out. Right. Why the fuck would you only be looking at that bedroom? Right. You should be getting these people out of that fucking house and you should be coordinating off this entire place.

I'll wake that nine year old up, get him out of his fucking bedroom, get out of the house. It doesn't make any sense to me, this thought, and they're like, well, you know, no, that doesn't make any sense to me this thought and they're like well, you know It no that doesn't make any sense. That's botched as fuck Now this was the only murder in Boulder during this year. Oh wow, so they were very Unequipped to it's not like they were very used to handling this but at the same time

That is crazy. Use all your skills. That this was the only murder and boulder. Yeah. That's wild. In this like area at that time. So they were, yeah, they were very unequipped. Yeah. But in 2015, in 2015, they spoke with the same cop that they talked to before in 2015, bector. He said, quote, as for the police department in general, I wish we would have done a better job of securing and controlling the crime scene on on day one. We also should have separated John and Patsy and gotten full statements from them that day. That's like protocol.

That's what's always done. It would be five months before they interviewed the Ramzis after that day. That's crazy. Like they didn't separate them. I've had experiences where the police had to come to my home when I was younger, and every single experience that I ever had with police, everybody in my home was separated,

and it wasn't even about a kid napping. No, like, that's just what you do. Every single time that's ever happened, every person in the home is spoken to separately. Why would you not just pull the parents apart? There's two officers there, at least at this point. Right.

Pull them apart and say, what happened? Right. What happened this morning? And just take their quick statements. Of course. But no, they sat in front of both of them and were like, okay, what happened? Yeah.

Like, no. And they've had very different experiences that way. Exactly. That's the thing. Now, the rest of the house was just open season. No evidence protection, no nothing for the rest of the house. People just freely walking in and around, bringing things in and out. In fact, the Ramsey's best friends, the whites, and the fernies

showed up because they called them their minister and other family members showed up. In fact, Priscilla White started cleaning the fucking kitchen, which is beyond my fucking comprehension. If I walked into my friend's home, whose daughter had been kidnapped that morning, I wouldn't be touching shit in that house. I'd be like, holy shit, I would just be focusing on her.

And also, I'd be too scared that I'd be fucking something up. This is an act of crime scene, no matter what. There's police around here. Why the fuck are you cleaning the kitchen? Yeah, that's weird. That's crazy to me. That's crazy behavior. What are you doing?

Yeah. What the hell? I'm trying to come up with something in my head just to like, oh, the other side. That's just me. That's just beyond my comprehension. That is just not a move I would make coming into a friend's house. That's a crime scene right now, but like, that's just me. And what is wild to me, even more wild to me, is that when Patsy called the Whites and

the Furnies right after the 9-1-1 call, she didn't tell them Jean-Benae had been kidnapped. She just said, I have an emergency, you need to come here. What? So they showed up and she was like, Jean-Benae's missing and they were like, what the fuck, like they were like, that's the emergency?

Like you just need us to look what? Look why didn't you tell them that? Why would you just have them walk into that? That's so wild. That's so wild. No, yeah, I don't, I don't. There's no reason. All I was gonna say was like, did she think the phone was tapped, which

she called 911. So now she already called. That's bizarre. So wild. Now bar, so barb, barb Fernie, one of the family friends called the home, talked to Patsy and she asked her what happened when she found the ransom note. Yeah. And Patsy told her that she quote, just handed the note to John first. Okay. But later, Patsy told her that she quote, just handed the note to John first. Okay. But later, Patsy would tell police that she had screamed for John when she found the note. John was asleep on the third floor, he claimed. So he wasn't getting dressed when the note was found. When she would have screamed. And he claimed he heard her, but somehow Burke,

who was down the hall from her when she screamed, slept through all of this, didn't hear any of it. And we've said before, like, oh, kids will sleep through anything because it's not their problem. If your mom is screaming, you're gonna wake up. You're probably gonna hear it. And it's in the morning. It's not like this is the middle of the night.

This is the morning. Barb Ferny was like, why the fuck is this kid still asleep? Like what's going on? It's Mayhem in here. No one's checking on him. I also, and this is just me and this is an opinion, but I would want my child right next to me. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. If my other child was missing, I would be clinging on to that boy for dear life. Thank you. That is part of something I don't understand is that's exactly how I would feel.

I would be, you don't know what happened. There could be somebody in the home still. That's the thing, someone came into your home, unbeknownst to you while you slept and stole one of your children out of their bedrooms. Right. There is no fucking way my kid would be in their bedroom by themselves.

No. How the fuck do you know that that window isn't how they're gonna get in? How do you know they're not hiding in his closet right now? That's it. That was my, that was my exact thought was could be hiding in his closet. I would be literally clinging, like clinging, locking my child to me.

Like they would be, nobody would be taking that kid away. No. So the fact that everything's going on and they don't even know what the fuck is happening with Burke in his bedroom, no. That's bizarre. It's just a bizarre thing. It really, like, no one seemed concerned

that the kidnapper was still in the house or how they got into the house and could they get back in. Right. Like, how do you know that kids say? Like, that's just so weird. I don't understand that. But again, remember, they were supposed to make arrangements to get the money to pay the ransom.

The kidnapper was going to call between 8 and 10. Yes. It was a window. So 8 a.m. Detective Linda aren't arrived at the scene. Patsy told Detective Aren't that she had gone downstairs, found the ransom note, and then ran upstairs and found Jominee missing. This is again not the order that she has given.

It has flipped. It's made up many times. So they were ready to... And again, that is something that can be, I'm hysterical. I don't remember what happened. Yep. But not the same. So they were ready to do the ransom exchange

at the time given by the note. So they're sitting there. They have the phones are ready. They're tapped. They have the whole thing set up in a salarium, like a little sunroom. Yeah. They're ready for this call.

8 to 10. They got to sit there. They want to make sure that it's tapped so they can trace it. All that. The eight o'clock comes around, nothing happening. By 10, the deadline had passed for the money to be transferred, the ransom note writer never called.

And detective aren't said that literally no one in the family noticed that the deadline came and went. No one asked about it. Oh. That would be my first question. I would be panicking that they hadn't called yet. And I would also think, have they not called because I called the police and now my child has been beheaded.

But no one even noticed that it was 10 a.m. like they were not even. That is your, I don't even know what the word is. Like that is like, that is the biggest thing on the docket right now. Oh, that's priority number one is that time frame and if that passes, then it should be like DEF CON1. Full blown. Holy shit. What the fuck is going, like, what do we do now?

I would be hysterical. Yeah, because what do you do now? Absolutely be hysterical. Like what? You would assume that they didn't, you would 100% assume had you read that note. If they didn't call, they know all these people are at the house. I'm clear with you.

And they killed my daughter. And they killed my daughter. That's what I would think. Now, James Ram, or James John Ramsey also left the room that had the tapped phone in it three different times. And when it rang for something unrelated during the time frame, like someone else called, he had to run back in the room to answer it.

And the police, the detectives there were like, why would he leave the room? Because if they called, why would you have to want to run from another room and possibly miss the call? Uh-huh. Like, wouldn't you just be locked to that being just waiting for it? So you could grab it immediately?

I would, yes. The only thing I could potentially look at differently is maybe he could not handle the pressure of sitting there looking at that telephone waiting and knew that he would run back in and get the call. And that is something I can understand too. Like that it's too much. And they did say that he was like totally just panicked

and like he was pacing around, he couldn't sit still. He was like, yeah. Very, he wasn't just sitting there like. So I think that is probably one of the best. So that could absolutely be part of it. Now, Officer French made a sweep through the house. Fleet White made his first, like he made a sweep through the house, he didn't find anything.

Fleet White went down to the basement for the first time. They're just allowing people to walk to this house. I just want to point that out. They're just like, yeah, go down to the basement. And he said, later, Fleet White said, he quote, observe the window to be closed, but unlatched and left it in that condition. So there was an unlatched window down in the basement. And it was the middle window. Like it was like, there was like these three windows, like a basement window, you know what I mean? That was like a great and everything

that was from the floor. Now, according to foreign faction, Fleet White is the only one who, while walking around searching, because people were searching for her, including John Ramsey, he's the only one who called out John Bane's name while searching for her. No one else did. Yeah.

And he was like that because I guess his daughter, Fleet White, he had a daughter around John Bonaise an age. And he said like a couple of years before that or some months or something like that, they actually had to call 911 because they couldn't find their daughter. And she was hidden in the house. She was hiding. She was playing hide and seek. So he said that was on his mind. Right.

So he was calling for her being like, hopefully she'll just come out. Yeah. Because he was like, Jean-Banay, you're scaring everybody. Please come out. Right. You know, we're here. Like, we just want to see you.

But no one else was calling her name. And that's bizarre because we've had that experience before, where like one of your kids will run in the house and play hide and seek. What the fuck? And we're screaming their name like fully panicked. Yeah. And he said when he went down to the basement

and he saw that unlatched window and he said he didn't touch it. But he said he saw the wine cellar door with the wooden latch on it. And he said he opened that. And he said he looked in, but it was pitch black. And so he said, he was looking for a light. And he said, he actually stepped into the wine cellar

and was like feeling around. And he said, I looked through the darkness and I didn't see anything. I couldn't see a form. I couldn't see anything. And I was like squinting, trying to find a light. And he's like, but I didn't want to go too far in there. I didn't know where a light was.

So he's like, so I just left. I didn't see anything. That's so haunting when you know that John Ramsie was right there. Oh, that's terrible. No, John Ramsey gave, at this point, the police had John and Patsy give handwriting samples right away, because they wanted to pass them off.

And Detective Jeff Kithhart, who was the handwriting and fraud expert, he was the one who said later, like, this is a little strange. A lot of bells. He was the one that found the practice at this point. He found the practice ransom note. And he said, whoever had written the ransom note clearly had started it a few times in that notebook, which is very strange. Now 10 AM came, again, the call didn't come, so John went down to the basement. Again, why is this happening? Why are we allowing people to just keep searching? Like civilians?

Why are we allowing this without a police officer with them? He's now the third person to go in the basement. Why is everybody continuously going to the basement? Yeah. And while he was down there, he found, he mentioned that there was a broken window and it was open. And just under it was a suitcase that had been set up. But he later said that he actually broke that window accidentally because he got locked out

like a few weeks prior and they just hadn't gotten a fix. Always get those fix. Yeah. Because that's like a big deal. It's a big security issue. until he, because he got locked out. Oh, okay. Like a few weeks prior and they just hadn't gotten it fixed. Always get those fixed. Yeah, because that's like a big deal. It's a big security issue. Now, he closed the window when he went down there and just went back upstairs.

You would go upstairs and say, by the way, that window was open. I just realized that is potentially how this person got into my home. But then later in a crime scene video, you can see that the middle window down there is open again. And this is after John Ramsey said he latched it closed. It's just, it's a strange inconsistency.

That's weird. With all of it. Now, at some point during the day, Fleet White drove Burke to his home. They woke Burke up. Drove Burke to Fleet's home to stay with his family during the chaos. They wanted to get him out of the scene. Because they were like, who to Fleet's home to stay with his family during the chaos. They wanted to get him out of the scene because they were like, who knows what's going to happen here?

You need to get out of here. So around 1 p.m. detective aren't asked John Ramsey and Fleet White who had come back at this point to search the house for anything that seemed to miss. At first I was like, what? Why are you asking to civilian men to search the house? Like why are you asking them to? You're a detective. Yeah. What is going on? I did read that they said it was just an attempt

to try to give John Ramsey something to do because he seemed like he was losing it. Okay. Like he was frantically pacing around and she was like, I needed him to have something to focus on. Okay. Because he was losing it. Mm-hmm.

I don't think that's a great. I think that was probably a regrettable decision on their part. Also, she told him and White to search the house from, quote, top to bottom and he went straight for the basement. Okay. Could be preference, could be that he was like,

I'm gonna start at the bottom and end at the top. Yeah. You're already on the top, we're already in the middle floor, so you might as well just go to the top and end at the bottom I would think, but that's me. Yeah. So they started in the basement to work their way up. And this was both of their second trips down

to the basement at this point. Now, again, the first trips where they went solo. Yeah. When they went down together, Fleet saw the broken part of the window and he was like, oh, I didn't notice that the first time. Like, there's a broken window. And Ramsay was like, oh, I was locked out.

I broke it. And he was like, you should tell people. That's how somebody could have thought, that's pretty like what the fuck? And he was like, oh, yeah, it's fine. And he said, no, this is weird too, because later, I guess, police said it was not clear from either of the men's later interviews

with the authorities whether they had opened the middle window. So it's weird that it was in the crime scene photo. It's open. Yeah. Neither one of them would say that they opened it. And why would you open it? It's just really weird. John opened that wooden latch door to the wine cellar.

John Ramsey. This is when he found his daughter, Jean-Bene, was lying on the ground with a white blanket over her torso. Her arms were over her head. This is really rough by the way, guys. It is, yeah. There was a nylon cord around them, her wrists and her neck. There was duct tape over her mouth. She was wearing the long white t-shirt with a silver

sequin star on it and long white long John style leggings. The cord around her neck was pulled incredibly tight to the point that John couldn't even initially see it around her neck. Oh wow. It was so like indented. It was pulled with a garot made from a broken paintbrush handle. Later found to be taken from Patsy's paint kit, which was outside of the wine cellar doorway. The other part of the broken brush was found in the room as well on the floor. Now fleet white, because John had turned on the light. So fleet now saw what was in front of him. He took off running upstairs, yelling for someone

to call an ambulance. Yeah. John Ramsay immediately pulled the tape off of Jean-Bene's mouth and untied some of the cords on her wrist. I get this. I absolutely 100 million for that. No one should fall to that. That's not no question in my mind. I would pull the tape off. Do you want to be thinking of forensics and that moment? No. You would think, oh my god, get this off my baby. I would pull the tape off. You wouldn't be thinking of forensics in that moment. No. You would think, oh my god, get this off my baby. I need to get this shit off my baby. Exactly. Like these cords around her wrists and this thing, like, over. Yeah.

Yeah, I get it. Now, Fleet White later said he searched that room before this. He mentioned to the music. I actually looked there. And he said that he swore that John yelled, oh my god, before turning on the light. Now, John Ramsey told police later that you could clearly see the blanket, the white blanket, even without a light.

He'd saw the form of the blanket, and that's why he yelled, oh my God. And he knows his home a little bit better. I will say, like, I get that a little bit. Now, Fleet White, his best friend, said, no. He said, I stepped into that room a bit to try to find that light and I didn't see anything. Later investigators did a test on this room to see if they could see. None of them could see the blanket in the dark.

So there's that. John Ramsey picked John Bane up and ran with her screaming up the stairs. Now Priscilla White was with Patsy in the sunroom when this occurred. She heard John and left the room to see what happened, but Patsy didn't follow her. Oh. So Fleet White has run up the stairs yelling, we need an ambulance.

Uh-huh. Wouldn't that startle you? Yeah. Because you're wondering, have they found John Bane, or did something happen to John? Did he have a heart attack down there? Yeah. Do we need an ambulance because he's having a heart attack? Like, I would be like, she didn't move.

Yeah. So once John had come upstairs, he placed Jean-Bene down on the ground in the hallway and kept saying, according to everybody around them, he kept saying over and over my angel, which like breaks my heart. Of course. And then strangely, detective aren't picked, John Boney up and moved her again, placing her at the bottom of the Christmas tree.

That's very bizarre. That's very bizarre. That's very bizarre. Why? Why did any of this happen? I do not know. Once she was moved there, a blanket was placed on top of her

and also a Colorado avalanche t-shirt, a sweatshirt, was placed over where her feet were to cover them. Like family members were doing that. This is so bad for a crime scene. Like this has been so fucking contaminated. You should have just left her where John had put her. I know it's hard. I know you're, you got to leave what's happening here so that they can collect what they can. you got to leave what's happening here so that they can collect what they can. Patsy was brought in to the room,

unable to walk herself. They were holding her up and she threw herself on top of Jambanay and just sobbed. Okay. And she was screaming like Lazarus, you raised, whatever, and like please raise my baby from the dead, like screaming, and her, like the minister the minister was there obviously and they're very religious So it makes sense, but she was like

inconsolable now according to the foreign faction book father Holverstack the the pastor Sorry, is there a difference between the pastor and the minister? I'm sorry I'm probably using those things interchangeably and I apologize I'm sorry, I'm probably using those things interchangeably and I apologize. He's called a pastor and some things and a minister and others. Okay. I'm not sure what the difference isn't again I apologize. Oh, no, you're fine. I didn't know if there were like two separate is one person. Oh, I'll just tell you that it's one person father Holverstock He remembered John Ramsey saying something like quote, I don't think he meant to kill her because she wrapped, she's wrapped in a blanket.

Or that quote, she was warm, she was wrapped in a blanket. So I don't know if, like he mentioned, he just mentioned that to police that he heard that. Why would you say I don't think he meant to kill her? When you were left that ransom note. He, she has duct tape over her mouse and cord on her wrists that you pulled off. Right.

Why are you giving them anything? Any kind of humanity at all. I would never be like these people didn't mean to kill her. I believe these people are fucking monsters. And I'm going to hunt them down myself. Well, the note says that they had every intention of killing their exe, not follow their rules. So fleet white then went back downstairs to the wine cellar. Again. That's a

crime scene. He was she was just found in the wine cellar. The crimeiest of all crimes. That's the place that we are looking at right now. Right. He went back down by himself where she was found. He collected the duct tape, cord, and blanket. There is a crime scene photo after this point that shows the middle window downstairs wide open at this point. He took all those things back upstairs and brought it to the police.

Why is he collecting crime scene evidence, everybody? What's happening? Well, and I wouldn't want to, like, I think Fleet was just trying to be helpful, but? Well, and I wouldn't want to, like I think Fleet was just trying to be helpful, but me personally, I wouldn't want to touch that shit. Me, I would never touch that shit. And me on that. I, I would never touch that shit.

That would definitely not be mine. Again, we have knowledge that like tells us not to. Yeah. And it's like, but I don't know. And I'm more false. The detectives are allowing me to happen. Yeah. It's very strange.

Now, the window is also a strange thing. There's no sign of disturbance on the window pane. There was dust, dirt, and even cobwebs, like spider webs that had remained undisturbed. Yeah. Like if someone had slid into that window from the outside, they didn't even touch anything on the window sill with any part of their body or clothing.

Impossible. And even outside the window, there was no evidence someone had stood there, walked up to it. No. It appeared like it had been open from the inside and no one had actually gone through it. Oh.

So that's strange. They searched the basement. They found the paintbrush, brush garot. They also found the broken window and the suitcase on the ground. There were some markings around the window like scuff marks, but there, again, no disturbances on the window sill itself. And is that where John just had gone in and himself?

That's what they assumed, that those were just from him. And the reason there was no disturbance on the window sill was it was weeks earlier that he had done that. So dust had collected. And that cobweb had formed. Now at around 130 p.m. detective aren't or no excuse me. One of the detectives I believe it was detective French actually. Her John Ramsey on the phone. This is after Jean-Benae has been brought upstairs. Everything has been found. He's on the phone. Hered by detectives booking a plane trip to Atlanta

for him, Patsy in Burke. The detective then informed him, you cannot leave the city. You cannot leave anything. And he said, I have a meeting that I can't miss. And they were like, you're gonna be your six year old. You're six year old shot?

It was murdered in your fucking house. You can't leave. And it's weird that I have to tell you that. Yeah, it's weird that you think you would even be capable of taking that meeting. That is the excuse of all excuses to call out of work. Like, that's beyond like that. I understand that like some people go into like,

just, I gotta, I gotta truck, yeah, like auto-pout that. That's not a, you're booking a private plane out of here. As soon as your kid was found, the fuck? Like, what are you doing? That's weird. Like, that's weird. No matter how you slice it, that's weird. So, Patsy and John provided hair and blood samples right away, and they, along with Burke were spoken to briefly by police after this.

But the medical examiner, John Meyer, didn't get there until 8 p.m. Wow. Why? Don't know. His report states that he found her in the living room with a blanket in that sweatshirt on top of her. The autopsy was performed the next morning. The time of death was stated to be between 10 p.m.

the night before and 6 a.m. that morning. Now it's believed this is probably closer to the 10 p.m. hour because decomposition had begun. Oh wow. Several injuries could have caused death, strangulation, and the skull fracture killed Jominee. The official cause of death was listed as a sphixia by strangulation associated with crenocerebral trauma. Now, there wasn't conclusive evidence of a rape, but there was questions related to whether she had been sexually assaulted in some way. That's horrific.

Blood was found in her underwear that she was wearing, like just tiny little, like pinpoints of it, but still. And that's weird. And that's weird. Closer inspection revealed that Jean-Bainet had marks on her back and neck that looked like they could have possibly been made with the prongs of a stun gun. What? Yeah. neck that looked like they could have possibly been made with the prongs of a stun gun. What? Yeah. Now, it was noted several times that the cords around her wrist were very loosely tied.

In fact, they didn't even make marks on her skin. That's how loose they were. The cord around her neck, though, was so deep that it had made a very brutal indent in her skin. There was notable, particular hemorrhages in her eyes, showing that she was, in fact, alive when she was grotted. That's horrible. But the hope is that she was unconscious from the bull of to the head. Yeah. Now, a bruise on the front of her throat

was also really strange. It's slightly triangular, and the size is about a quarter. And there's all these sources that say that they believe it's, like analysts have said that they believe it was like, her shirt was caught up in the garot, and it pressed into, it had like nodded, and pressed into her skin and just caused that. Okay, sure.

I could see that. Like, we'll say, but it wasn't caught in it when they found it. So that was interesting. Now, they also found, according to the official report, and this really broke my heart, a red inked line drawing in the form of a heart located on the palm of her left hand, like a little kid just drawing. What they discovered through this autopsy was that she had been, and this is rough, just trigger warning, sexual assault. She had likely been sexually assaulted with a paintbrush handle at the time or after death.

They also found evidence that she could have possibly been sexually assaulted more times before that night. I remember the doctor had made notes. Like weeks or months before. There were several experts and physicians who all conclusively agreed on this fact. That's so sad. Her pediatrician says they never found anything amiss,

and that she had visited like 30 something times in the past like three years or something like that, and that they never questioned or were worried about that. But who knows? Well, yeah. Now, the cords were very interesting for other reasons too. The chord that was wrapped around the homemade garat and then around her neck was from a new roll of chord. It was white chord.

They knew this because you know how new chord or rope will have like a melted end. Almost like there's like glue on the end or something. Like an anglin. Like it's a very like smooth end. Yeah. That's what glue on the end or something. Like an anglin. Like it's a very like smooth end. Yeah. That's what was on the garot. But the rest of the cords on her wrist were frayed and clearly cut, like roughly cut. So this led them to believe that the garot was made first.

And then the cords were tied around her wrist, which would make it staged. Because what, it would make it staged. Because it would also explain why those were so loose, because there was no reason for them to be tight. Right. And we believe she's unconscious anyway, which is what brought it so. So it doesn't really, that's all staged. Now there was mucus that had come from Jean-Béné's nose that will happen during strangulation

and down her face and lips. Like it had gone down. This happens during death, especially strangulation and a blunt force trauma ahead. They noted that the outlines of the duct tape were on top of the mucus trail. Meaning the duct tape was placed on her mouth when she was at the very least unconscious, but more likely when she was dead. Okay. Because the mucus was under the tape. Right, but more likely when she was dead. Okay.

Because the mucus was under the tape. Right. So that had already happened. Right, like she'd already been strangled. There was also an imprint according to foreign faction that was very clear on the sticky side of the tape and the imprint was John Bones lips, but they were perfect.

It wasn't smeared, it wasn't. Did she wasn't yelling? Nope. Dead lips. That's what that was. This is like really, which, which says staged. There's no reason for that to be on there. But there was DNA evidence found in her underwear and on her waistband. Uh-huh. And it did not match any of the ramsies.ies. So there's that. We're going to talk about that more in part two. But at this time after the autopsy, the ramsies went to Georgia and refused to speak to the police. They did go to Georgia. It was after all the autopsy was done and everything and they were

allowed to. They went to Georgia just to get away from, I think, the house, which again, parts of that you can understand. I understand. I want to get the hell out of here. But then they hired a huge team of lawyers. Again, we all say like when anybody's to get a lawyer because that's the first thing you should do. But then they hired a PR firm. Okay. Again, Boulder Police Chief Tom Coby told the public at this point that there was no threat to them, no threat to the public, and that this was an isolated incident. What?

So there's no kid in operation. How do you know that? You're telling me? How? What says that? What are you talking about? A kid who's just murdered in their house. And we don't know who did it.

And everybody in the neighborhood was like, we're fucking terrified. Of course. Like we were terrified. Like somebody had broken into their house and killed their kid in the middle of the night. And then you were telling us there's no threat? What does that mean?

You gotta explain that, man. Now, we are going to end part one here. I'm sure people are like, what about the pineapple? Don't worry. We're going to talk about the pineapple in part two. Okay. We're going to talk about the pineapple, which I'm sure some of you might know about some of you are probably like, what the fuck are you talking about the pineapple? It's a big deal. It's cute. We're going to talk about the flashlight. We're going to talk about the suspects and we're're gonna talk about the theories. All right. In part two. But that is part one of Jean-Bene Ramsey.

Hopefully this time around it's a more, I wanted to make it a more cohesive and easy to follow narrative than before I thought I jumped around too much last time. And we're also not under water this time, so. Yay. You can probably hear it better. Yeah, that was great. Well, it was horrific, but it was, you could follow it though. I think you, yeah.

I don't want to say I think you did a much better job because I thought you did great last time. Well, thank you. I think it was definitely, I think you've growth. Thank you. I think you've growth. I think you've growth. But yeah, this is a rough one.

Part two, we're really going to get into the nitty-gritty of all the theories and suspects. Yeah. That pineapple thing is a real interesting bone of contention for a lot of people as is the flashlight. So, but what we're not gonna do is get sued by Schmurpschmanz. So, I'm not gonna say anything. Nope. And with that being said, we hope you keep listening.

And we hope you keep it. We. We. I wish you'd done. And we hope you keep it. We. We. Yes. Don't keep it that weird. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to morbid, early, and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts.

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