Morbid - Episode 435: Harvey Glatman "The Glamour Girl Slayer" Part 1

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

From the summer of 1957 to the summer of ’58, the City of Los Angeles was terrorized by a truly heinous beast who was murdering women and dumping their bodies in the LA desert. The killer, thirty-year-old Harvey Glatman known as The Glamour Girl Slayer had a dark past and a seriously terrifying modus operandi. If allowed to, he would have likely continued his reign of horror forever. Luckily, one woman put an end to it.REFERENCES:Newton, Michael. 1998. Rope: The Twister Life and Crimes of Harvey Glatman. New York, New York: Pocket Books.People v. Glatman. 1959. 52 Cal. 2d 283 (Supreme Court of California, June 5).See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I don't want this. Yeah, I mean, I'm just trying to get married and have a couple babies. Like, I don't need this You know what's gonna what's funny is like by the time this comes out who knows how many more are going to be shot out of the Sky because like that's the trouble with like the the week ahead thing is I know we're kind of off the current events a little bit But you know we're getting there. We're catching up. Yeah, so who knows by the time comes out, we could be under full alien attack. And that's interesting. They call that a deep breath where I'm from. Yeah, you don't know. No, I have active anxiety about this at this point. We don't know. None of us know. Like, why are they flying where the plane just in our airspace. Yeah color me

To feel afraid of flying because color now even more afraid a new fear has been unlocked that there is now UFOs in the way of planes Do you think maybe they're just gonna come get the good ones of us that are like you know give back to humanity And spread Christmas cheer for all to hear like Like in their end, they can say like, come to a planet guambo. I mean, I'm, because you're kind, let's go. Let's go.

You smell good. Let's go to planet guambo. I'll go. Let's go there. I'll do most things. I'll do most things. I won't do most things, but I will, I'll do a lot of things.

I'll tell you stories. Aliens. Mm-hmm, tales. I think I am an alien. So maybe Mom is coming to get me. I think that's great. That's called a coping skill right there. I do think it's funny that like if we had one of those boards

that was like, this planet has gone how many days without shooting down a UFO, we would keep having to erase that number this weekend. We could not hit, we could not hit that zero. Why? We were always at one and we still are at one. I don't like that. It's not fair to me. It's a, it's that some people know what's up, but they won't let us know. Yeah. Like somebody knows what's what's going on, somebody knows. Oh, what a few people know.

A couple people. And I just think that I want to know too, because secret secrets are no fun. Secret secrets hurt someone. And I'm possibly a whole planet. Possibly all of us. Yeah. I don't know.

And there's no one. I'm going on Earthquakes lately. There's been a lot of scary, it's a tsunami. We, as a joke, you know, tsunami in California, you know, that was a call back, because you're wondering, a call back, calling back to that time. I'm so scared. I'm not. I'm just like, you know what?

You're not scared. No, everything sucks here. Like, we don't deserve any of this. No, but not so. So, like I love my, well, I love my life, I love my little bubble. Yeah. So like I want that to stay.

But in the grand scheme of things, I'm like, there are days when I'm like, you know what, it's about time for that asteroid. No, no, no, I don't like it when you say that seriously. I really don't. I think it a lot too. She says it so much. I don't want to be away from Drew.

That's literally like my big, no, I'm actually going to cry right now. Same sees, but like, we're good. If it's an UFO invasion, we'll take it one day at a time. You know, that's all you can do. Why future trip? We don't can do. Why future trip? We don't know these people, these things. They can come down here and just be like,

we're here to Marie Kondo, this planet of yours. We're gonna spark joy. I mean, we don't, like you guys suck. You're all fucking miserable. Like I think that's part of the problem. We are collectively right now. Fucking miserable. We're all just angry, nasty little shit heads,

being nasty to each other. I'm not saying everybody, you know what I mean. But as a population here, I think the pandemic really shot that off, the proof that we cannot handle, even that kind of inconvenience. And it's like, I think maybe they'll come down and they'll be like, okay, it's time to tidy up.

It's a loud airplane going by. That is a loud airplane and I apologize for that. Just breathe out. But it's an airplane, it's not a new foe, so it's good. I didn't see it. It's identified. I didn't see it. Sounds like an airplane.

I'm gonna go with airplane. I'm not gonna stress. I'm gonna stress it up. I'm not gonna stress it up. I'm not gonna stress it up. Here's a tear. I'm gonna go with airplane. I'm not gonna stress. I'm gonna stress it out. I'm not gonna stress it out. I'm not gonna stress it out. Here's a theory. I'm gonna take a one day at a time. I'm gonna appreciate every second I have.

Here's a theory. Oh yeah, I appreciate all those seconds. Yeah. Never mind. Here's a theory. I got a theory. Watch the rewatcher. That's a bumpy reference by the way.

You weren't up there yet. I was like, I don't I don't I might not have time I have to plug this okay What if it's happy and it's ourselves on that other plane because like you know you're not just here like for sure definitely exists somewhere else What if it's our someone else is coming to gather those of us that need to get the fuck out of here? But I love that theory, you know, and you know what? That's an absolutely valid theory because we have no fucking clue what's going on. So that is a valid theory. I need to go back to therapy. I think I think it's fine.

Okay. I'm just blissfully ignorant right now. I'm like, you know what? No, I don't know what those things are. Do I want to know? Yeah, I do. I mean, at this point, I'm like, I'm just going to go about my day. I guess. This has been going on for like decades. Like, there's always been like, you know, both sightings and stuff like that. It's really amping up right now, though.

Yeah, I mean, like, it feels like it might be slightly thicker the air will right now. But. Have they ever been not low in our flying space before? Like, ever? Or is that I don't know? I'd be slightly thicker the air right now. Have they ever been not low in our flying space before like ever? Or is that unprecedented? I do not know. But I wish we had an expert here today. I wish we did.

Maybe we should just get an expert ufo, ologist, I don't, I think that's only an alien. No, that's like a thing, I think. Oh, really? I'm pretty sure that Henry from last podcast on the left is a new follower. Henry? So what the fuck is going on, Henry? So maybe Henry can tell us what's going on. I'm not sure if I'm listening sure that Henry from last podcast on the left is a new follow. Henry. So what the fuck is going on? Henry.

Maybe Henry can tell us what's going on. I'm not going to listen. Henry. If you listen, that would be sick. I don't think you do. But if you did, we'll probably know that it would be sick if you did. And you are welcome to come on and talk to us about ufology. Because I have actual genuine anxiety. It's actually like we should move on because I'm actually feeling my chest.

Yeah, and you know what? We're, let's try to get Henry on here. That'll be our next move is to get Henry and we'll talk about it, Ufos. But true crime. Oh, before we go to true crime, actually, sorry. Something else. You know, we've been having,

there's been all these people that have been messaging and being like, thanks for the, all the content. Like, are you guys okay though? No, no, I'm not. And we are, we're okay. There's been a lot of personal stuff that I've been going on. And like, so yeah, we're going with that.

But there's been some like personal, like sad things that have happened. Yeah, yeah. We're okay though, don't worry. We're totally fine. We're just like, the kids are all right. We're just, you know, people be people in. So that's just like how we are.

But you know what, I woke up this morning, and gum must have. And I said, huh, huh. I feel good. Like I feel like that nasty cloud is trailing behind me now. Like I feel like January and like part of February, I was like, get the fuck out of here. And it did.

It was like, all right, bye. And it left. And now I woke up this morning and I was like, get the fuck out of here. And it did. It was like, all right, bye. And it left. And now I woke up this morning and I was like, you know what? No one shot down a new phone today. No one's seen one as far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. There you go. There you go.

The ash was just leaning towards the microphone to say, I was like, that we know of. But then, just when I was like, you know, and I was like, okay, like we're going okay. But then it got ratcheted up a notch because ghost is coming back to the United States this year And I was like, right, she's shitting a dick. Shitting a whole dick. Shitting a dick. We need to get Tobias back on the pod to talk about all the things

Because that was the most You're a cook-a-bird. Just everywhere conversation, everywhere ever and I want to have it again. Yeah, I really want it. I want to have it again. So we got to do that, but guys I'm so excited. And all my ghost people that have reached out since this whole obsession has started, I know you feel me right now, we're all excited.

So that was an exciting thing and I felt like it was, it kicked off a good day. It really did. I feel good about it. It really did. I agree with it. But today, even though it's a good day, it's no ufo, all ghost day. Now I know. I'm going to take you down a pet. Down, down, down. You usually do. Yeah. And this is when it comes to episode.

Yeah. You usually do. You do take me down. Take a look. Just down. And this is going to be a two-padda, kid. Oh, two-padda. It's a big case. I want to give you time to digest the beginning before I give you the crazy conclusion.

Okay, don't be. So today we're going to be talking about Harvey Glappman, who is known as the Glamour Girl Slayer. Mm-hmm. I know him. Yeah. I know him. I've seen him. Yeah.

Unfortunately, if you look up this case online, I just want to put it out to you. There are crime scene photos. So I just want to give you a little warning that if you're like Harvey Gladman, and then you just go to images you're going to see, at least like that, they're disturbing in a different way. Okay.

Because his photos, he would take photos of them like before, during after. Yeah. Yeah. So there's some, there's some very strange ones. I just wanted to warn you guys, just in case. That's good. Because I know I like to look up pictures while I listen to something as we all do, but not like in those pictures. Yes. So Harvey Glatman, like I said, the Glamour Girl Slayer, he was known to be active in Los Angeles from the summer of 1957 to 1958. Not long. But in that time, he caused an unimaginable amount of damage.

He kidnapped and murdered women and then dumped their bodies in the LA desert. And he was only caught when a would-be murder victim named Lorraine Vigil managed to escape his car. I said escaped. I'm not really sure what. Escape his car and run to a nearby police patrol unit for help. Damn. Yeah. So, Glamon had a long history of really disturbing behavior, even in childhood. And I'm going to go through all that to worry. But having committed his crimes before, you know, the FBI's behavioral science unit really became a thing. And at the time there was really no one who was understanding or really studying serial killers and their psychology.

At the time, he really didn't get a nickname. He got a nickname, but it wasn't for what he was doing at the time. And while he was active, he wasn't even really like a big name in the press, which is concerning. And that's actually kind of crazy. It's like the fifties of it all. You know, they were like, no, just make bread and serve your husband and everything will be fine. Sorry, I had to take some. What's interesting about this case is that even in the mid to late 2000s,

detectives discovered new glatman victims in his home state of Colorado. And a supposed victim once believed to be dead was found to be alive and well in Australia. Holy shit. Yeah. And that's going to be in part two. Oh, okay. But don't worry. I'm going to lead all the way up there. So this is a crazy case. So let's talk about Harvey Glatman as a child because my goodness, there were signs. Yeah. So Harvey Glamon was born in the Bronx, New York. On December 10th, 1927, what is he?

Sagittarius? September what? 10th. September 10th. That's me and Drew Zaniversary. Look at that. Sagittarius? No.

Hold on a second. I think that's Libra. I think Sagittarius was right before Capricorn. Sagittarius is like December. Yeah, December 10th. Oh, I thought you said September. No, that's why I was like, I'm fairly certain it's a Sagittarius.

Yes, that is Sagittarius. I did it, it's okay. I'm sorry. I was like, I think it is. Also, that's not me and Drew the River. So, you said, I didn't think it was, I was very confused. I was like, are you okay? Like, what's going on? No, look, it's not over there. I anniversary September. I didn't think it was. I was very confused. I was like, are you okay?

Like, what's going on? I said September 10th, and she said, yeah. So I miss her, you and you miss her, me and me. And then we miss her each other. We just fucked each other up. We did. I think you're right. I think that's sad.

Yeah, I think so. Yes, that's sad. But Harvey was born to Albert and Ophelia Glamon. I love the name Ophelia. I do too. So cute. The couple had met two years earlier when they were working together at the Instructo Millinary Supply. I like that. The Instructo.

They were married pretty quickly after they started dating and a year after they were married, Albert used all of their savings to open a small stationery store. Oh, oh, this is a pretty big of their savings to open a small stationary store. Uh-oh. This is a pretty big financial risk at the time, especially as they were growing their family too, but we'll see how it goes. Now, in the early years of his life, Ophelia, his mom, referred to her son as, quote, apparently a healthy, normal child. I love the apparently here.

I know. He was apparently pretty healthy, like, I don't know. I was apparently like, you like, I don't know. I'm so here at Lee. Like, you were in charge of that. So, like, I've got the apparently before all of that is a little concerned. Maybe she means, like, he appeared to be

but what lurked beneath the surface. Yeah, apparently. But then, Ophelia herself began noticing Harvey engaging in instances of strange behavior, she would refer to it. Oh, God, I'm so scared of this. I can't wait to have kids, but like if they're doing some fuck shit like this,

this was very early to very early strange behavior. How old? So kind of contradicted what she said that he was apparently very normal and healthy. Yeah. Then she's like, nah, he was, there was some strange shit. So according to Ophelia, this is very graphic, by the way. Oh, and this, it just gets a little weird in here.

When Harvey was three or four years old, he would, and I'm so upset, and I'm going to quote, he would tie a string around his penis, place the loose end in a drawer, then lean back against the string. Why was he left to that many devices as a three or four year old? Thank you. Most of them, that's what I was like, that's a lot of time. Baller that he knew, like how to tie a knot. It's a three or four. Baller that he do.

But pretty baller. Pretty baller that you know what to do that. But maybe tie your shoes instead, harps. Yeah. And also like did they, I don't know who you even call about that. Definitely not go as far as. You're so, like mom, I'm not what you do. I'm not what you do about that.

This was in the 50s. Yeah. This is a very different, even now you'd be like, whoa, I don't know what to do with that, but you would call someone. In the 50s embarrassment was a big thing. Yeah. Keeping like, shabby and taboo thing.

We don't talk about that. And by the way, a lot of them, there was a really good source that Dave actually found. Deep. His name, the author's name is Michael Newton. And it's called rope, the twisted life and crimes of Harvey Glamon. It's a really good book. We're going to, we're going to crimes of Harvey Glamon. It's a really good book. We're going to, we're going to get Lincoln in the show notes. I just wanted to say a lot of these quotes come from that book. Okay. So, yeah. So that was a little strange. Oh, Philaia did admit, like, that was

probably a little unusual that behavior. But at the time, she was thinking, okay, kids go through weird phases where they're curious about their genitalia. And like, maybe this is just a very weird to me way of him exploring that. Well, yeah, I mean, like kids, like, it's a mop, but like they like rub themself up again. That's it, you know? That's the thing,

because we have to remember this is the 50s and we have to remember, you're always gonna wanna explain something like that away. Yeah, especially when it's your kid. So yeah, it's just like, you gotta look at it like, you know, kids are weird, they go through. And when you look at it with the benefit of hindsight, after seeing what he did, that's real fucking weird and that's clearly a red flag, but at the time,

I can understand maybe she was trying to convince that would scare me a little bit. I'm going to be honest, I would call someone, but I'm also not a 50-south wife. And that's the thing, we have someone to call. Yeah, so you got to take all that into account, but there does come some more later than I'm like, yeah, lots of people really, I I gotta do something about that. So by all accounts though, outside of that situation, Harvey's life was like pretty normal at home. Like there wasn't anything going on. It was pretty in line with that of his peers at the time.

He was an only child, so his mom kind of doated on him as much as possible. Well, Albert, his father, was the one to be kind of the primary disciplinarian. There wasn't any straight-up abuse in the household. He was just a strict dad over the time. He was also very disapproving of Harvey's chronic masturbation issue. Well, you know, that he seemed to develop very young. He told Harvey that it was going to cause him to get acne if he continued doing it. I think maybe more like a reptile dysfunction later in life.

I don't know about acne. But I think it's like the Harry Poms thing. What is that? That's like a religious thing that like if you masturbate you're gonna get Harry Poms. That's hilarious. Yeah, like I think that's a thing. Is it like PSA LMS? What is it?

It was a joke. Like it was like a religious joke. It's like Psalms. Oh! I was like, what is it? It was a joke. It was like a religious joke, it's like, Psalms. Oh! I was like, what does that say? I literally couldn't spell that. My brain is that stuff. Wow!

Oh, it's Monday. You ruined my joke. Sorry, that was a funny joke. I like that. Probably put Harry Psalms. Harry Psalms? Yeah, I think that's what it was. It was just like like probably back then,

it was very common to tell your kid, like don't jack off or you're gonna get acne or something like that. And it's like when your mom says, like don't lie, your tongue's gonna turn black. Exactly, it's just one of those. No, yeah.

And of course, you know, he was the primary disciplinarian, like I said, but it wasn't abuse, but it was a 50s household. So like it was a beer. We just didn't call it a abuse. Exactly. it was a 50s household. So like it was a beer. But we just didn't call it a beer. Exactly. It was abuse by our standards. Yeah.

But in the 50s, it was just like, you're just raising your kids. Just slap your kid and just slap your kid around. But I don't know any instances of him being like beaten brutally or something like that, you know what I mean? But who knows? Because there isn't a ton known about his early life. So yeah. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondries podcast American scandal.

We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would

shatter the lives of countless children, and force a heated debate about punishment, an America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times or fell in love with a vampire or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later paralyzed? What would you do? I'm Whit Missaldine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people

who lived them. From a young man that dunes his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer, you'll hear their first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Followed this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder app. From the looks of it, there was no straight-up abuse that anybody was aware of. Okay. But we know that things can happen that we don't know about.

Yeah, we know that in the 50s. Like, the belt was a big thing. Exactly. That do be abuse. That do be abuse. That do be abuse. Exactly. So, Ophelia may have been able to dismiss that one strange drawer incident with his sexual self-expiration there, but then it started to get more frequent.

Okay. And it started to become slightly masochistic. And again, you do you literally, but this is like a very small child's that's concerning. Yeah. By the time he was four years old, four, Harvey's favorite pastime was tying a rope around his neck, then looping the other end over a pipe or a board in the rafters, holding it tight and masturbating at the same time. So at four years old, he was performing auto-orotic expixiation. And that's like, how did he even know how to do that? Exactly. Like then I am not accusing anybody of sexual abuse or, you know, physical abuse.

No. I'm saying, who knows? It could be somebody outside of the family. Absolutely. But like something, he's actually going on somewhere. Yeah. Like, how did he just come up with that? A four-year-old doesn't come up with that.

No, that's the thing. So it's very strange. And as that Michael Newton book points out, that goes far beyond the typical curiosity that a four year old or an even of that age group would have, would that kind of stuff? Cause again, curiosity is a thing. It can come off a little strange when they're little. Yeah.

But that's way beyond. No, that's the one that I'm like, ah, yeah, that's like adult behavior. Maybe you should call ghost fusters here. Like, I don't know, call someone like the doctor. Now, yeah, it's in actually, he points out that this is a common thing that you would see. This kind of potentially injury, like, injuring play would be something that you might see in someone that is a victim of childhood sexual abuse. Oh, that's sad. But again, we have zero reports of that. We don't know. Right. But it's just that is something you see. It, that's sad. But again, we have zero reports of that we don't know. Right.

But it's just that is something you see. It's an interesting thing. And does he ever say anything later about where that came from? No one says that he was sexually abused. He does not say he was sexually abused. Okay. His parents obviously don't. And then he doesn't say anything about like like doing that when he was little. I think he later does like his crimes are very sexual in nature. Yeah. So I mean, there was a clear thing there. Or like, yeah.

But I don't think even he understands it to be quite honest. Okay. That's just me though. But neither, like I said, Harvey didn't report being abused in the home sexually, physically nothing. His parents didn't.

But this again was the 50. So if he was being abused by someone outside of the home or in the home for that matter, silence would have been kind of par for the course. Oh, man. But I would have thought he would say something maybe later, but who knows? Again, a lot of people go their whole lives and they don't say a word. And could have been repressed also. Exactly. It can be in any number of things. But also at this time, when he was young, Albert, no failure were spending tons of time at the store they had opened, like 12 hours a day, seven days a week

kind of thing. So he was left to his own devices a lot. Like a babysitter? Like he would have a babysitter, but like also, he was just kind of left like, roam around. Okay. So it's like, who knows who he ran into if something could have happened. Or even picked up a magazine. You don't know. But it's very interesting. Now in 1938, the gladmines actually moved to Denver, Colorado. And this was because of what Ophelia referred to as increased economic activity.

I don't know where that economic activity was because, you know, they really couldn't do a lot with that stationary shop and they ended up having to close it down. So he, Albert ended up getting a job driving a taxi cab in Denver and Ophelia actually got a job at a local hat shop to make ends of me. So it didn't look like they were like thriving. They weren't like at the bottom, but you know, whatever. Harvey kept up with the very strange and very frequent sexual behavior and not long after they'd gone to Denver,

Albert and Ophelia came home one evening to discover his neck swollen and rope burned. Oh no. And in interviews after he was arrested way later, Harvey also said that he remembers several times one or the both of his parents catching him masturbating. And he said he was very disturbing to his father in particular. You would think his father used to be very upset about it. And apparently his father had become convinced that this behavior was evidence of his son

being queer. Now it's important to note this could be any number of like the term queer in the 50s, especially, could also be him saying strange quote unquote, or it could be referring to as like sexuality. Yeah. Who knows? That's never the distinguished between. Right. So I don't know. Either way, he thought it was evidence of something that he deemed to be off. Okay. So unlike the first incident of unusual psychosexual behavior, we'll call it when he was four years old. That swollen neck and rope burns on Harvey's neck, that got everybody finally moving.

Yeah, I mean, you could kill yourself very easily. This is when everybody was like, we got a fine professional help here. So Albert and Ophelia took him to the family physician who did the best that he could do by just prescribing him some pills. Here, do some cocaine about it. Just do some cocaine about it. Here's some methamphetamine, not I'll do the trick.

You'll go, you'll go send your bloodstream, just do some cocaine about it. He also, you know, he was like, here's some pills. And then he was like, you know what, you just need to keep this boy busy and he'll just grow out of it. Oh, okay. Yeah, he'll just grow out of this very normal behavior. It makes sense at this time that his parents likely just wanted to make this go away. Yeah. Out of shame completely.

And the doctor probably just didn't want to deal with it at the time. Like this is not a time where, or didn't even know how to. Because like what was, he probably was nowhere near, like educated in that way. No.

To be dealing with this kind of psychology behavior. Like that's the thing. He needed many more doctors. This didn't need to just be the family physician. It needed to be several specialists involved here and he just didn't get it. So that same year Harvey began attending Sherman Elementary School.

Oh my God, this is all before elementary school. Well, this is actually where he was in junior high. So this is when he's going into junior high. But it was at the Sherman Elementary School, I guess. I don't really know how that works. Okay. But that's where he was. I was like, I'm so confused. I know because when I saw it, I was like, wait, what?

You might, yeah, that's what it was. But he was actually a great student. He excelled at the very least he was doing like average in school, but he was really above and beyond for most part. It was social skills that he struggled with. Kids made fun of him a lot. They made fun of him for acne.

They said he had buff teeth and overdeveloped ears. He did have very large ears, which later in life, we can make fun of him all we want. Yeah, totally. Because he's a piece of shit. Well, you feel bad for the kid. But the kid, it's sad.

Teachers said that he was very easily offended and very sensitive. Same. Same. Me too. And because of all this, Harvey had developed a very deep fear of being around girls at this point, because he felt very inadequate whenever he was in their presence. This isn't shocking considering the bullying underdeveloped social skills.

Of course, he was going to be scared around girls. But Ophelia later reported that he was so uncomfortable around women and girls that even later he would cross the street to avoid even passing one on the sidewalk. Wow, that's yeah, that's prime time fear. Yeah, I'm like, I don't think that's a, that's a normal phase of development. Imagine that you were walking on the street in a man's one thing, like usually it's the, it's actually, especially now, like actually that would be nice if a man would just like cross over to the other side of the road. I would be singing Agatha Power right up for the rest of my day. It would be like the Bruce Almighty theme. Yes. I'd be like, wow, I can do anything.

Yeah, it's really wild. But when he wasn't in school, he was actually in the Boy Scouts. He worked a part-time job. He was a delivery boy. And then he actually worked as a webratory assistant, which I was like, oh, oh, he played music with this little band

for a little while. Okay. His whole, you know, his life life while he was dealing with symbolying, again, pretty unremarkable, not huge things happening. It's really just that behind the scenes, psychosexual behavior that's happening with himself essentially right now, but it's just not being taken care of. If it was being taken care of, I wonder what would have happened. I know.

Because it's just like, right now, he's just doing it with himself, but then he takes it out into the world. Yeah. Because that's where the unremarkability and the fairly normal outside world comes crashing down. Sure does. Harvey's criminal career began at age 12.

Wow. Yeah. Yep. That was the first year that he was enrolled in Sherman Elementary. And it began with what he referred to as creeping, which involved him breaking into apartments and just like stealing little items.

He once stole a 26 caliber revolver. At first it was like a game. And he said he did it kind of just for the thrill of doing it. It got him excited. It's so scary though, because it's like we say all the time if somebody is like,

kuku, kuku enough to break in your house, not knowing who the fuck you are, what the fuck is inside your house. They are a scary person. They are a scary mother fucker. They are not to be trifled with if they are ready to jump into your house without knowing. 12 years old no fear bringing in a home like wow. Yeah. And you know what this just makes me think

again that if you're looking for a TikTok follow for good self-defense and like really good tips that pure power I think his name is on TikTok. He's fucking amazing and he has a podcast and he has the most soothing voice ever. Oh, shit. But he's very good at like telling you self-defense stuff, telling you just smart ways to keep yourself out of even having to use self-defense. Okay. Like he wants you to like not even get to that point.

And he has like a whole like Amazon storefront where he puts things like items that he feels are really good for self-defense and for protection and home security. He's just like a really good follow. He's very comforting. He gives updates. I think he's a police officer or former detective.

Oh, okay. And he has to be talking about crimes against children. Yep, yep, yep. So like, love him. And he's just, he's really good to follow for like updates on cases like the Idaho case and everything that's going on He just gives like real Unbiased just here's what I think is happening here. He's really good, but he's a really good follow

So I just like I want him to like blow up follow him, you know Him and this girl sinister vibe. Well sinister babe, of course, but there's another one I just love giving you recommendations. Let's blow these stickers up horror chronicles but there's another one. I just love giving you recommendations. Let's blow these stickers up. You're good at it. Horror Chronicles on TikTok. She gives horror movie recommendations. She's fucking awesome at it. All of hers have been a plus. She watches like a million horror movies a second.

She's phenomenal. That would ruin her. And I think she's making her own. She's actually producing her own. So go follow her. Horror Chronicles, go follow her. I want her to blog too. So yeah, that's a little side tangent. We might all get blown up. Yeah, you know, who folks are coming, but let's let's blow these people up and get them some get them some bag before that happens. Yeah. So he's he's stealing these items.

He's doing this for the thrill of it. And at first, he was like, I adjusted it for the thrill of it, but all the pictures have gone, I'm doing it for a thrill. What is that for? What's that for? It's for my song. It's like, I'm doing it for a thrill. I don't know what that was. I was thinking of that song.

We are always running for a thrill of it. I'm always thinking of that. We are always running for. Oh, I know. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three.

I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three.

I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. I'm going to go up three. pretty quick. Yeah. The only marinated in that thrill behavior for like a minute. Because now he was preferring to break into the homes of single women. Hey. Preferably single women.

12? Yep. And sometimes at 12, he would follow a woman home, force her into her bedroom, gag her with a cloth while tying her arms with rope. Holy shit. Was he a big kid? He was not a big kid. That's something but he had a gun.

He was flashback on. That's why he stole it. And other times he would unbutton their shirts and skirts to assault them. He would want to. And then just leave them. So like escalationstation.com. Like, that wasn't taking care of when it when it should have been taken care of. And now we have this holy shit. And this is

going to be a lot harder to stop. And it doesn't. So by the time he'd completed his sophomore year of high school in 1944, he had really become bold with this behavior. Oh, because he just keeps getting away. He's getting worse and worse. And he's getting away with it. He'd stolen another gun from another apartment that he broke into, and would use that to threaten women on the streets. He would pull them into like alleys and shit and force them into undressing

or giving him cash. What the fuck? He had also taken up photography on the side. I was gonna say, I knew that came into play at some point. And I know that sounds random, but it will matter later. Yeah. Ike gonna say I knew that came into play at some point. And I know that sounds random, but it will it will matter later. Yeah, Ickic. Very Ickic. But yeah, he would so now he's using these guns that he stolen and it's only women like he's got a thing with women

And it's like what the fuck is going on? Then the very next year in May 1945 If he was actually caught by the by the Denver police as he was attempting to break into the apartment of a single woman. When the officers turned out his pockets, they discovered a long piece of rope and a pistol. And they knew exactly what he was going to be doing with it. He was interrogated and he confessed to burglarizing area apartments, but he would not admit to sexual assaults. Of course not. He just said he would burglarize. He just like the would not admit to sexual assaults. Of course not.

He just said he would burglarize, he just like the thrill of breaking in places. You fucking liar. He was charged with first degree robbery and he was actually bailed out by his parents. Yeah, they're not, Ophelia and Albert are not helping. I just need to put that out there.

Harvey's parents were very much into Nile, very much. It was just sad when you think about it. It is sad, no one wants to believe their child is like this, but I also want to be like, now's that hindsight that you need to look back on those other things and be like, yeah, something's wrong. And we need to get him help. Yeah.

But again, the time period makes it a little more difficult. So I can understand, it's just like, we're looking at it through a 20, 23 lens. It's frustrating. It's very frustrating. They just couldn't or wouldn't recognize what was happening here, even though at this point, it's like right in front of them.

The man was showing a very severe hatred and aggression towards women specifically. And his mother Ophelia at the time said, she just believed that her son had begun using the break ins and assaults as a means of meeting women. Mama what? Yeah. Like she said, he's just really girl shy.

Take up speed dating asshole. And then she was actually quoted in an interview as saying he had costed girls in the evening just for an approach. Or on another occasion, he entered an apartment where girls were alone and molested them in a similar way, but never harmed anyone in a bodily way.

Molescing someone is not harming them bodily. Oh, Philia, we need to talk. Like, girl, look up your definition of molest. That is what's so sad about this, is it's like she's fully sitting there being like, what? He only molested people. Yeah, she needed to harms them in a bodily way. What the fuck do you call that?

Well, then that makes you wonder like what she went through. Exactly. Because I'm like, if you don't think that's harming someone, like what? And if you've taught him that that is not harming someone, has he gone through something

and he just doesn't, he didn't realize that that's what that was. Yeah. Because he's been taught that. It's real fucking weird with that statement. Thank you. By late spring of 1945, all the creeping and, you know By late spring of 1945, all the creeping

and late night activities that he had done had taken kind of a toll on his schoolwork. He was falling behind. Yeah. He was a really good student for most of his career, but he was finishing high school in June of that year with his grades falling dramatically. He did end up graduating, apparently,

in the top part of his class, but that was literally only because of his previous years of work. Right, right. Then on Sunday evening in mid-June, it's a Harvey approached Noreen Laurel on a Denver Street corner, excuse me. And he approached her, he flashed her piss,

the pistol at her, like he had done a bunch of other times and he told her to come along with him quietly. Oh no. Don't you just want to throw punch him? Yes. Like some fucking little shit stain walking up to you with his big fucking ears and flashing a pistol in your face? Yeah, like I'm telling you to come with you. You'll turn. Once he had her in the back, excuse me, once he had her back at the car, this is what I meant to say. Harvey tied her hands with rope and demanded that she get in the car. Oh my God, this poor girl. So she had to get in. And at that point, he drove her out to Sunshine Canyon in the western part of the city.

And what happened there is kind of unclear. Okay. But Harvey later said that he removed her clothes and assaulted her before allowing her to leave and then even giving her cab fare for the ride home. What a kind guy. Yeah. Wow, Harvey. And you know what? In true. Yeah, that's about right fashion. Police reports and interviews at the time stressed that that Nareena LaRelle was not attacked or raped. And that the two had only quote laid down together all night. Yeah, I bet.

That's about right. Like who would a men think they are just being able to like overpower women, take what you want, just take whatever the fuck, like who the fuck do you think you are? Exactly. If not for a woman, you wouldn't be here. No way. Go away. So get the fuck out.

You little shit. Yeah, he's rogros. I hate. Go away. So get the fuck out. Mwah! You little shit. Mwah! Yeah, he's rogros. I hate. Of course, luckily, Noreen Laurel immediately went to the police to report the kidnapping and assault. And the Denver police were a little taken aback at first by half familiar this looked.

Yeah. They were like, wait a second. After all, they had just arrested Harvey Glattman a month earlier for a very similar thing. Mm-hmm. So they showed Norin a series because he was breaking into an apartment who literally assaults someone with all that shit. So they showed Norin a series of mug shots and she immediately identified Harvey as the

man who abducted her and driven her out to Sunshine Canyon. Right. Harvey was arrested later that afternoon for the charge of molesting women and then released pending trial. Wow. Just released. Imagine. Yeah, you just are running around molesting women and you get released. Also, I hate the word molest. I know it's really gross. It is. And his ears are fucking huge. He's such a little bit of his ears are fucking they are. And pissed at him at this point this point. I forgot that you said that there's pictures. Yeah. Guys, do not Google him because that will happen to you on impact. They're upsetting.

Yeah, they are. But by the summer of 1945, at just 17 years old, he's still only 17 years old here. That's why he's arrested twice for assaulting and abducting women. That's a pattern, that's a pathology, and that's a fucking problem, gladmen family. Yeah, because we're only going to like, ramp it up. Escalade, escalade, escalade. So Albert and Ophelia finally took Harvey to a psychologist.

Damn, that's the first time. Yeah, they only took him to the family fucking doctor. But probably the pediatrician who was like, here you go, here's some Flintstone vitamins, you'll be fine. So Dr.. Hilton was the psychiatrist that they took him to. Not calm. He was made very aware of Harvey's history of very unusual sexual behavior. And among the most noteworthy of Hilton's observations was that Harvey was quote, Solon, Marose, and very disrespectful. And for several years had felt that everyone was against him,

including his parents. OK. Interesting. Very disrespectful. Yeah, like to say the least. Like, please say more. But he actually diagnosed Harvey with schizophrenia. But he offered absolutely no treatment option

or any more information, other than recommending that he just pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity Okay, thanks doc. I'm so glad that everyone is doing the absolute least here What about his condition made you feel like he was schizophrenic like what is that? What is that based on I don't think a lot? Yeah, I think that was I almost feel like that was like Let's take him to a psychologist Because you know because he's insane because they they kind of almost admitted the parents that like they Only took him to the psychiatrist to help with the legal trouble. Yeah, it sounds like that one

It sounds like this guy was like ask it's a pretty yeah sure. Why not please insanity right? It's no surprise that after that on September 30th, 1945, Harvey was arrested again. Why are we? I know. Unfortunately, this time, we don't know a lot about the charges of this arrest. Because remember, this is the 40s.

But it's unknown whether there was no bail set or whether his parents didn't have the resources to bail him out this time. But whatever the case, he spent the next month and a half in jail. Good. He appeared in court on November 19th and he didn't plead insanity, as was suggested. He pled guilty to first degree robbery and was sentenced to one to five years at Colorado State Penitentiary.

I was going to say maybe he just knew that though. Yeah, it wasn't going to work and pleading guilty will get you a lesser. Yeah, exactly. Sentence. And he probably didn't want to go to hospital. Exactly. So while he was in prison in Colorado, he will get you a lesser. Yeah, exactly. Sentence. And he probably didn't want to go to hospital. Exactly. So while he was in prison in Colorado, he was evaluated by a second psychiatrist. A real one. Who described him as quote,

someone embarrassed and shy boy who had been a model in Moe. Inmate. In Moe. Inmate. I don't know. You're in a Moe. I can't stop thinking of a shy boy.

Shy boy. Shy boy. Shy boy. But unlike the other doctor, this prison psychiatrist said he found no evidence of hallucinations or psychotic thought patterns, saying, quote, there is evidence of anxiety, but emotions are well controlled. Practically no fantasy life is evident. And the prison psychiatrist concluded, I feel this boy is probably a psychonorosis

compulsive or anxiety type without much depression. I can find no evidence of schizophrenia and do not believe shock treatment is indicated. Which I was like, okay. I think that's good. Well, damn. So because of good behavior and being a model prisoner, he got parole after serving just eight months

of the one-year mandatory sentence and was released July 27th 1946. Guys, there wasn't any women in there with him. Yeah, like he has nothing to do. Of course, he's going to keep a shit together. There were no women in there for him to assault. Exactly. He, of course, he's going to be a model in me. What's he going to do? Like, come on. That's the thing. Oh, he makes me crazy. It's me too. By the way, in later interviews with the press, Ophelia said Harvey was seen by another psychiatrist

upon release from prison. That was a prison. Why can't I talk today? You know, it's the first day that I feel alive and I can't speak. I can't speak. But yeah, another psychiatrist saw him when he was released from prison.

And his treatment recommendations included a trip out of state and Dancing lessons to increase the young man's confidence with girls a psychiatrist said this Dance lessons to make him stop kidnapping and sexually assaulting women Can you imagine if you went to your therapist and you were like, hey, I'm sad. And they're like, you know what you should do? Dance about it. Dance and go on a trip. Or imagine going to either psychiatrist mean like, hi, I just got out of prison because I kidnapped and sexually assaulted a woman in the street with a pistol.

And that psychiatrist is like, I think you have confidence. I think you should get some confidence with women. Let's have you dance with them. No. I think that will be fine. You know what you can use more confidence when you abduct an with them. No. I think that will be fine. You know what, you can use more confidence when you abduct an assault woman. Yikes.

What the fuck about him says that he doesn't have confidence. He's literally abducting women and forcing himself upon them. That has a certain error of I get to do what I wanna do about it. That's the thing, I love that their whole thing is like he's just trying to get a date. I push that boy.

I'm like, yeah. I don't think so. I love that their whole thing is like he's just trying to get a date. I push that boy. I don't think so. I love that every way. Everyone around him is like, you know, it's very in-sell thinking. It's very, and his family and everyone around him are just right on with it. They're all like, yeah, it's the women's fault. Maybe if they were nice to him, he wouldn't have to be a fucking murderer. And it's like, I know it just... Let them take them home, then he wouldn't have to be a fucking murderer. And it's like, I know it takes, that's right.

Let them take him, take them home, then he wouldn't have to hold a pistol out their hat. Yeah. Like, what the fuck? Like, oh, okay, yeah, that works. Oh, that works. Oh, that's hot. That thanks. So of course, Ophelia, ever the doding mother, I can't.

So, Carvy to New York, hoping the change of scenery would maybe help him feel better. Here's son, here's some New York, hoping the change of scenery would maybe help him feel better. Here's son, here's some New York girls. Here's a whole other population for you to attack. Great. It didn't, which I know is shocking, but his prison stint didn't change him. No, he very shortly after arriving in New York bought a pocket knife and a cap gun that looks very real and assumed resume to his whole creeping thing.

And now it's so much easier in New York. Yeah, it's a new place. Again, like almost like the scream read that we did more places to hide. March 10th, go see screams, radio, radio, I live. I live in Somarrow, we think. Somarrow we think like swoonie like swooner said. Also Kirby's back, Kirby's back. Kirby.

All right, so on August 17th, so on August 17th, less than one month after being paroled in color, I'm sorry. I'm not on this planet. I think a new foe has taken part of me away. Oh no. I don't know why I can't talk today. You just got pro. It's been a long few weeks.

I think my brain and my mouth are just catching up with each other. It's been a long life, Mama. So, Kherbi, right after being perolted, like one month, Harvey approached two young women on the street in Yonkers and flashed a gun at them. He told them to be silent and he wouldn't hurt them. One of the women luckily screamed her fucking head off and drew the attention of a man nearby who ran to them and screamed at Harvey was like, I'm gonna fuck you up.

Thank God for good, man. Harvey ran off into the night, scared the shit out of him, but it didn't scare him too badly because shortly later the same evening after midnight, Harvey was out once again prowling in the same exact area. This time he came upon Thomas Starrow and Doris Thorn, who were just out together for a late night walk. Yeah. He flashed a fake pistol at them.

This time they were scared, obviously, and they complied, they didn't want to get hurt. Yeah. And they walked with him into the dark area just beyond the road. Harvey told Thomas to kneel on the ground and put his hands behind his back. I don't know.

When he did, he stole $30 from Thomas' wallet. The fuck? What the fuck are you? Like get the fuck out of here. Then he tied his hands and feet, then he turned his attention to Doris. She must've been shitting herself. So poor Thomas is kneeling there with his hands and feet tied.

I can't do anything. He instructed Doris to stand by a tree where he bound her hands behind her back and began removing her shirt. Oh my God. As he began doing this, Thomas managed to get himself untied, jumped up and fucking like linebacker tackled Harvey.

And completely unexpectedly. Beat the shit out of him. Harvey didn't hear him untying himself, did not know he was coming, just got fucking side-swiped. Doris must have been like, my man. Harvey put then though, pulled the knife from his pocket

and sliced Thomas's chest and abdomen, two or three times before running off. Oh my gosh. Luckily they both lived. The couple reported the attack to police, and by the time the Yonkers Police Department released their alert for the man who attacked them, Harvey had already left the city and was on his way to Albany. Thank goodness. But fucked up. In late August, Harvey was not hanging with his mom anymore, and he actually started renting an apartment on Columbia Street in Albany, and he started prowling once again.

On the night of August 22nd, Florence Hayden had just left work and took the bus back to her apartment. After getting off of her stop, she was just walking for a few minutes towards her apartment, and she started to realize she got that feeling like someone was following her, right? And when she looked, she was like, oh, good, it's just a nurse.

Like, so it was probably on her way to work. So she was like, okay, I'm near the hospital. That makes sense. But what Florence didn't see behind the nurse was Harvey following and stalking hiding behind the nurse. When the nurse turned down towards the street, down a street towards the hospital, Harvey made his move and rushed Florence from behind, jam the gun into her back and told her not to make a sound. He stole whatever she had in her purse and then forced her into a dark backyard. There, he instructed her to turn around and put her hands behind her back. Florence is a smart cookie though. And as he began tying her hands with the rope, she realized that if he was using both hands to bind her,

he wouldn't be able to aim or shoot a gun. Boom. So with this in mind, she just turned around to face him, pushed him as hard as she could, and screamed as loud as she could. Good. Smart girl.

The sharpness of that movement and the unexpected screaming at him, scared the shit out of Harvey. He did not see that coming. So he just ran off. Good. She immediately went to the police and reported this. Luckily, everyone's reporting, which is good. But I know because especially back then that didn't always happen because unfortunately,

you know, it's a lot. You know, it's a lot. They were just like, yeah, that's your fault. Yeah, exactly. And that does happen to you at some point. So that didn't scare him enough though, because the next night he tried another assault. This time he jumped out at teens, Beverly Goldstein and Evelyn Berger as they walked down the sidewalk. Yeah. He waived his fake gun in their

faces. He demanded money from them. But once they handed over the money, he suddenly realized that he wasn't, he wasn't going to be able to bind an assault one without the other one either running or trying to stop him. Like he hadn't thought this through. He weren't thinking. So he took the cash and ran. Luckily. He's a fucking idiot.

Luckily, Evelyn and Beverly went directly to the police and reported the assault. Fucking idiot. He is. Like, he literally went through with this and I was like, oh, wait a minute. Yeah, one of them's probably going to try to help the other, huh? Now this is the first time that Harvey actually got some kind of nickname, but it was like, he became known, he was feared at this point in the community because he was attacking people. And he was being called the Phantom Bandit. Wow.

Which is really bad. Crafty. That's really bad. And apparently he was a real pain in the ass to the Albany police because they just couldn't seem to know him. He would just disappear into the darkness. Now police commissioner James Kerwin and night chief William Mooney at the Albany police department coordinated with the Albany police detective bureau. And they mounted what what what was at the time referred to as the most intensive manhunt conducted in recent memory. Shit. So they were really going for it.

Yeah, like there was a lot riding on this. They had detectives and patrol officers everywhere and even volunteering to work over time to catch the phantom. Good. This paid off because two days later on August 25th, two detectives spotted someone matching the phantom description that had been given by all the victims because luckily they all could describe him. And I love it because part of the description said that

he had quote, big ears holding up a pair of horned rim glasses. Zachary. I support bullying here. I do so. And not only did he match the physical description, but as the detective watched this ass hat, he was intent to intently following a young woman who seemed completely oblivious to his presence. They were just watching him follower, like watching him in real time. So they immediately approached him with their guns drawn. What you do when they literally walked up and were like, yeah, like just right in the

face. And instructed him to turn out his pockets inside. He had his fake cap gun, a length of rope, and his wallet, which contained $24. Now, he was taken into custody without much incident, while a second patrol unit searched Harvey's apartment where they found several personal items belonging to previous victims. Crazy! Ding ding ding. It's abandoned.

There he is. So Harvey sang like a bird that sings. A canary? The canary sang? Yes. Yeah, they sang. He sang. Well, that's the phrase anyway.

Yeah, he sang like a canary. All birds sang, don't they? They do, right? Like a morning dove. Glory? Glory. No, is that a morning glory? That might be a flower.

I think it is a flower. I don't know. Either way, he spilled the tea at the station. He told them everything. He talked about prison, his criminal history, his assaults and robberies and yonkers only weeks earlier. All of it. He was proud of himself. I thought it was great. Oh, authorities in Colorado were like, oh, hey, he's on parole. So they were willing to charge. Yeah, they were like, that's a parole violation. They were like, hey, Albany, will you extra-diet him

and we'll charge him too? And also police and yonkers were like, oh, hey, can we also have him because of that violent assault on Thomas and Doris over here? Thanks. But authorities in Albany were like, well, we want to prosecute him for the three attacks first. Yes.

So on August 28th, a grand jury in Albany indicted Harvey for robbing Florence Hayden by means of force and by placing her in fear of immediate injury. OK. All of the added potential charges in the different places were going to be a problem for him. Yeah.

So he eagerly accepted the DA's offer for a reduced sentence for a guilty plea. OK. In early October, he was sentenced to five to 10 years and was sent to El Miro formatory on October 24, 1946 to serve that sentence. Now, he was evaluated by a physician and a psychiatrist when he was admitted to the prison.

They always do that. And he completed an IQ test, and he got a score of 126. Wow. So the psychiatrist, Dr. Ralph Ryan-Kale noted that he was, quote, endowed with superior intelligence, which is unfortunate. I wonder if he had a super-ecomplex. He could have. And this is what he said in his notes.

You can see this in the Michael Newton book, too. He said, because of his conforming attitude and high level of ability, he will probably have no difficulty in an institution and will do well in any program to which he is assigned in accordance with his ability. Yeah. However, unless he receives intensive psychotherapy, it is not likely that a correctional institution will improve his deep-seated personality difficulties. I think we've already proved that.

Which may can be potentially dangerous individual to be at large. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, we should listen when psychiatrists give this blunt and insightful of a fucking evaluation. I would. Initially, Harvey reports that his criminal activities were just motivated on quote,

the impulse to become famous or do something unusual. Something unusual. But then he later said it was the impulse to become famous or do something unusual. Something unusual. But then he later said it was the impulse to hold up women, tie them up and watch them, afforded him sexual gratification, and gave him a sense of stimulation. Oh, so he was officially diagnosed as psychopathic personality, schizophrenia type. Oh, and that was due to that other diagnosis of schizofrenic. Yeah.

And they said without proper treatment, he will remain a threat to the public. But they were all like, yeah, this fine. Well, yes, they didn't give him proper treatment. Well, finally, this is what his parents seem to kind of take it even more seriously. Ophelia actually told Dr. Ryan Kale that she and Albert would consent to brain surgery or a frontal lobotomy. Wow. If there was no other options for treatment, because she literally said she wished him dead over living life as a criminal deviant. Oh, okay.

So given the time period and the pattern of behavior before this, it could be that his parents finally saw this as something that needed to be taken care of for betterment purposes. Or they could have still felt a little shamed and felt like a lobotomy would just kind of incapacitate and take care of the issue. The fact that they're like, you know, it just lobotomized. Just lobotomized that, fucker.

Shit. Not sure why, but on September 9th, 1948, after serving two years at all by Almyra, Harvey was transferred to Singh Singh Prison along the Huntson River, just outside New York City. No one knows why. His behavior was not as good. Despite he was getting like good behavior reports, but he got... He was getting rave reviews. He was, he had five stars, but when he went to Sing Sing, he also got good reports of behavior. He was part of their radio repair program,

which later becomes a job for him. The psychiatrist at Singsing said his outlook was unfortunately poor. Yeah. And insisted that he, quote, should be psychoeducated, and if still anti-social, should be segregated, even if schizophrenia does not seem to develop.

Huh. And the psychiatric report also said that his IQ was at 130. Oh, wow. Which was four points higher than the previous does. And that's a solid, solid amount of points. What's interesting even more so though is that the state parole board submitted another report a year later.

Uh huh. In August of 1949 and his IQ was at 90. Huh. So somehow it dropped 40 points in 12 months. That's interesting. The report doesn't give a reason to really even acknowledge this big deviation. Yeah, right.

The thing is though, one, he could have been tired, sick, anything when he took that test. Two, he could have done it on purpose. Yeah, cause what the fuck? At that point, he's like, what else do I have to do? Yeah, it's just, but it's just a strange little like, how the fuck did that happen? And one is it always the same exact test.

That's the thing I don't know. So who knows? Now, after two and a half years at Sing Sing, with six months taken off for good behavior, he was granted parole. I must go. On April 16th, 1951, but he would have to remain under court supervision

for five more years. He was now sent to Yonkers because he had warrants there for his arrest for Thomas Endoris, the attack on them. This was a big charge considering what he had done to them. He was facing serious time for this one. Fortunately for Harvey and unfortunately for everyone else in the entire world, his lawyer in the Yonkers charge said that the court had known about Harvey's whereabouts since 1946.

They could have prosecuted him at any point in the previous five years, and they didn't, so this would be a violation of his six amendments, right, to a speedy public trial. Oh, that's open and shut. The judge in the case said, yeah, that's the other choice. The charges were dismissed my god dude yeah and then the parole board in New York approved Harvey's proposed plan to move back to Denver and live with his parents they just said he needed to maintain regular check-ins

with the court he had to have outpatients outpatient therapy and he had to keep a job, I think. Okay. So Harvey returned to Denver in the fall of 1951 and he met with psychiatrist Dr. Franklin Ebaugh. Franklin. Franklin for an evaluation. He also was there to get treatment recommendations, but Ebaugh, Ebaugh diagnosed Harvey as a secondary psychopath. What's that mean?

He said his feelings of inadequacy, poor adaptability, impulsivity, and the fact that he is very critical in somewhat hostile towards his environment would be reason enough for him to attend at least monthly therapy sessions. Okay. But that was it. Okay. He never returned. Oh.

He got that recommendation and that was it. Thanks for your rec. He just didn't come back. Then years later after Harvey had been arrested for murder later in Los Angeles, Dr. Iba actually said, Harvey was relatively free of all symptoms at the time of evaluation. Oh, yeah, totally. I bet. Failures. You're all failures.

Like what the fuck? So he's just ignoring that psychiatric, you know, that he has to attend therapy, he's ignoring that. He's like, now I don't feel like it. Yeah, no big deal, but he definitely got a job, right? Because that's important.

No, no. No, for the first three and a half years he lived with his parents in Denver, he was just completely unemployed. And how old is he at this point? At this point, he's like in his early, I think he's early 20. Yeah. Yeah. Now according to his mother, he was unable to find a job because quote no bonding company would give him bond.

Ophelia stop. Like you can't. No, you can't find a job. I'll stop it. Ophelia. Then in October of 1952, a year after he had come home, Albert Glatman died of complications of diabetes. Oh, that's sad. I'm really excited. I know what it is said. And as a result, Ophelia had to work a lot more to make ends meet. So she's out more.

Yeah. So she actually opened a small hat shop in Denver and Harvey was kind of left to his own devices again. We all know what happens when Harvey's left to his own mother fucking devices. It's not good. We don't want it. Yeah. Yeah. Now finally that year he found or no excuse me two years later in 1954 he actually finally found employment at a Denver butcher shop. Oh, no, but don't worry

He abandoned that job after 10 months. We don't really know why. Okay. Okay. Ten months is pretty good. Yeah. A parole summary from this time actually shows his employment history. They label it as a radic. I would say so. Because he worked in just two years. He worked as radio and television repair jobs, mattress filler, truck driver, shipping clerk, butcher, like everywhere. Is a mattress filler just somebody who like stuffs mattresses?

Maybe. Imagine. I feel like that'd be a really soothing job. I mean, I don't know what they stuffed mattresses with back then. It's probably like a spastic. Probably just straight up a spastic. I mean, you know, yeah. Apparently, according to the report, he had difficulty in adjusting with some of his employers and was often fired for insubordination and arrogant behavior. Harvey, no. Yeah. Which also I'm like, you're pretty bold to look like you do would be so arrogant, Harvey.

You're pretty bold. Pretty fucking bold. Beyond parole and I give you a job and you're a dick about it. I'd be like, hey, ask that. I just love that that guy looked in the mirror every day and was bold in any way. It's usually those ones like,

what a little fucking turn. Yeah. On on September 7th, 1956, he was discharged from Polt Perole after doing nothing he was supposed to do. So that system worked really well in that instance. Now he was just completely free and clear. He didn't have any charges, nothing. He can just go.

So finally, at this point, he's 28 years old, and he can do whatever the fuck he wants. And what he wanted to do was get his far away from Denver and a far away from his mom, as he could. So in January of 1957, he moved to Los Angeles, California. He had big dreams of becoming a star. He certainly did. Now, remember, Harvey from like the beginning of his life has had someone telling him what to do, not just his parents, but like bosses, jailers, for all officers in Los Angeles. No one. This is the first time he is free. He's writing the script. Yeah. Something that with someone who has his particular interests would be very appealing.

Yeah. Because remember this is a big city. It's Los Angeles. He can go around and notice. And no one's going to notice a little strange behavior. So remember, he did the radio repair program at Singsing and he worked on not like on and off in radio and television repair once he was paroled. So he quickly found work in LA in those kind of jobs. It wasn't super steady work, but he could cover rent for a small apartment. He was renting on Melrose Avenue. But if he couldn't cover the rent, Ophelia would just send him money. Yeah, I'll probably. She would.

Yeah. And now at this point, he's really going further into his interest in photography, that he started in high school, which I mentioned. Yeah, you did. Now this is LA in the later 50s, almost the 60s. Actors, his models are everywhere looking for their big break. And at this time, you could find, there was all those stories of this gal

was just waiting a line at a diner and this man came up and said, you need to be in pictures. It's just, this was that time, literally. So during this time period, those who felt so inclined and couldn't find that kind of work yet, but still wanted to be in the realm of some kind of entertainment, they could make ends meet by posing for kind of low-brow men's magazines

or other photographers that had like questionable credentials. And that's how how Betty Page started. Exactly. This was a very big thing, the detective magazine. You see, like that kind of stuff. Nobody really wanted to do it, but it would pay the bills. So at nearly 30 years old in 1947, Harvey had not had a consensual sexual encounter at this point.

Wow. He's almost 30. He has not seen a woman nude of their own volition. That's nuts. And let that sink in. He's never full blown raped. I mean, that's the point that we know of. Not that we know of.

Every encounter he has had sexually or with a naked woman has been violently forced upon them. Wow. Yes. That's wild. Isn't that wild to think of? And heartbreaking for those women. So heartbreaking. Now in Los Angeles, all he had to do was call one of those modeling agencies or place an ad in the back of a magazine looking for models and women would come to him. So the photography of it all actually worked as a benefit for a few reasons. One being that it was easy to put an ad in

there called a modeling agency and say you're a photographer. It also made him seem legit and trustworthy. Especially if it's creeped. Exactly. And for someone so uncomfortable and self-conscious and the presence of women, the camera was also a nice little barrier between himself and them. It kind of gave him this like control feeling without having a weapon in his hands. Yeah, even though it kind of was his weapon. But it was his weapon. So he went about just luring and taking photos of nude women for a while, always under a fake photographer name. Yeah. He was kind of testing the waters a little bit, seeing how this all worked. Yeah.

But after a few months, he wasn't just content to hide behind the camera and watch naked women. So in summer of 1957, he decided to escalate and boy, did he? Harvey's first target was Lynn Leicols, a woman. He photographed a few months earlier while he was posing as Johnny Glenn, a woman he photographed a few months earlier while he was posing as Johnny Glenn, a professional commercial photographer. Was he like, hey, by the way, that's not my name?

No, he just, he just, that was what he pretended his name was. And Harvey's plan was to show up at Michael's apartment. They know each other a little bit from that one. Counter now. Counter now. Counter bull. Exactly. And he's like, he was just going to show up and say, you know what?

Like I need to do a photo shoot, will you be my model? And then he was planning to sexually assault her once he managed to get inside. He'd even purchased a 32 caliber pistol just in case. Oh my God. On the evening of July 13th, he drove to her apartment and knocked on her door.

But what he didn't think about was maybe she doesn't live alone. Oh. Yep. And it never crosses mine that she could live with someone else. Yeah. That way, I mean, I'm happy. You're glad, but I'm like, you don't think anything I heard. You're an idiot.

So somebody else answered the door and he knew he couldn't restrain two people at once. He had failed at that several times already. So we had to think of another plan. So it was Likos roommate who answered the door and she ended up letting him in and told him, you know, Lynn isn't home. And as she told him this, Harvey noticed another blonde, attractive female, a picture of one hanging on the wall. Okay.

And he walked over to it and he was like, who's this? And the blonde in the photos was 19 year old Judy and Dull, the girl's other roommate. She was also a sometimes penup model. Okay. She is breathtaking. Penup work is like my favorite kind of model. If you look her up, you're like, holy shit.

Judy was also out when Judy wasn't in the apartment. She was out when Harvey had arrived. So the roommate gave him the phone number and was like, you should just call another time. And maybe they'll wanna work with you. Yeah. By 1957, let's talk about Judy for a minute. By 1957, Judy had been modeling for a while.

She had actually already had 19 been married and divorced. Oh wow. Because and at the time she was in like a very intense custody battle for her one-year-old daughter. So she was trying to make any extra money she could for like court fees and shit and just to like prove that she could take care of her. And of course, he's going to use that to it. He's going to be on that.

Harvey had come unexpectedly to the apartment at one point, saying his name was Johnny Glenn and that her roommates knew him like he had come back to the apartment at one point saying his name was Johnny Glenn and that her roommates knew him like he had come back to the apartment. And he was saying, you know, he needed someone for a rush job. It was a pulp novel cover and she would be perfect for it. And she wasn't jumping at the chance when she answered the door. She was like, oh, she was like hesitant.

She just had a feeling probably that like, you know, I think this is the guy that my roommate described as kind of a creep, I'm not sure. She's seen a lot of photographers, but I don't know, I think this is the one. But Harvey kind of pushed a little, saying it was an emergency and if she wasn't interested because she just get one of the other girls on the phone because they'll take one of them. This is when she was like, fine, and she let them into the apartment. Yeah. Now, when he arrived, he told Judy

that a friend's photo studio had actually just become available unexpectedly. And he was like, would you mind switching the location instead of being at your apartment? Could we go to the studio? And she really didn't want to because she was like, no, I feel safe in my apartment. Yeah.

Because I have two roommates that could come in at any time. And like, I don't know about that. Like you didn't say we're going somewhere, but the money was really good that he was saying. Of course that was. She needed to work as much as possible to get money together for the custody hearing. So she agreed and left the apartment

and Harvey's black Dodge Coronet. So they ended up not going to a studio, but going to Harvey's apartment. She went inside because she was focused solely on making money for her daughter, and that kills me. Once inside, he explained that the photos were for a detective style magazine, and he'd be shooting her in bondage. Oh, no.

So he tied her hands behind her back, he bound her ankles, and then he began shooting poses of Judy in various poses. She was on a chair at one point, she was laying on a rug. Eventually, Judy was like, I'm uncomfortable and I'm rest like I want to get out of it. Yeah, like I've done enough. But he wouldn't untie her. Oh, no. Instead, he just placed her onto a chair and told her that he was going to keep her tied up while he, quote, had some fun with her. He then flashed the gun at her and was like, do you know I'm serious now? Oh my God. Now, unfortunately, we only get Harvey's side of the story in a lot of these,

but his version that he told detectives is that he claimed once he made those intentions clear, he removed the gag from Judy's mouth and told her he'd kill her if she yelled. She nodded in agreement. And according to him, Judy told him that she was a nymphomaniac and that she wouldn't cause any trouble for him. I highly, highly, highly doubt that. I would go on the record saying that

that's most likely not true. I'm gonna say it right now, that's 100% not true. Like anybody in that position is not gonna be like, well, don't worry about me, because I'm an infomaniac. So this is great. Like not sex, that's being raped. And he brought up that she said that she was an info. So it was fine.

But that she was in a custody hearing and she had one coming up and didn't want anything being used against her. So that's why she wouldn't cause any trouble for him. What? That doesn't make any sense. So Harvey dragged her from the chair in the living room to the hallway floor and he just left her there while he went to get a drink of water in the kitchen. When he came back, he found that she was bleeding from one of her nostrils.

Oh, wow, that's crazy. How the hell happened? Yeah, but you didn't hit her. You fucking asshole. So he said he used an old pillowcase to hold against her nose until it stopped bleeding. Oh, yeah, because he's such a kind thoughtful soul. Now, once she was cleaned up, he stripped her of her clothing. And he said that he said that Judy

seemed to be partially enjoying it. That's disgusting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he raped Judy twice in his apartment, stopping occasionally to take more photographs of her during the whole thing.

When he was done, he made her go to the bathroom and get dressed. When she returned from the bathroom, he sat on the couch with her for hours and talked to her. Yep. Like she said, he said, Judy, like he was asking her what she was going to tell her roommates when they got home, whether or not she was going to go to the police. Judy was trying to convince him she wouldn't go to the police. She wouldn't say anything. He said they watched TV for like two hours. And that's probably when she said, I have a custody battle going on. I'm not going to give you any trouble. Exactly. I'm not going to go to the police.

Not going to go to the police. I don't want to be caught off of this. Yeah, totally. Go ahead and have your way with me. Exactly, but he's a piece of shit. Now, he said he really struggled with himself over what to do next. Oh, I bet. But he said he didn't want to go to, he didn't want to kill her, but she knew, he knew she would go to do next. Oh, I bet. But he said he didn't want to go to, he didn't want to kill her, but she knew, he knew she would go to the police and that she knew where he lived now. So he was like, I would go back to prison.

I got to kill her. Yeah. So at about 10 30 PM, Harvey told Judy, he was going to drive her out to the sticks and he said, I'll leave you out there with enough fare, bus fare to get home. But if you try anything along the way, I'm going to kill you. And she probably thought that that was true because he'd just sat with her for hours. Exactly. She's, she's thinking I'm going to get in the car and this is fine. Now, once he got into the car, he drove south for nearly 100 miles. Oh my god. Before turning onto a road that led into the desert near India. That's like two hours. Yes. He said he told her he wanted to have sex with her once more.

What he meant was I want to rape you. I was gonna say you didn't have sex. Before he lets her go. And he said he told Judy, so he took a blanket from the trunk of the car, brought her to a darker spot in the distance in the desert. He spread the blanket out on the ground. And he said after he got her settled on the ground, he tied the rope around her ankles, then around her neck

and used his body weight to strangle her. Holding tight to the rope for about five or ten minutes until he was certain she was dead. So he garotted her. Yeah. Yeah. That's fucking brutal. Now Harvey said he sat with Judy's body for a long time as he processed what he had just done. And he said, for an instant, I wanted to undo what I'd just done. I lifted her head up and called out her name. No, you didn't. No, you didn't.

He carried her body over to a patch of sand. And then he just dug her shallow grave and he dumped her body in there with all her belongings. He removed the ropes and he wiped whatever he had touched clean because he had looked up how to do this shit. He also kept one of her shoes as a trophy. Weird. And once he'd finished covering her body with sand, he went to his car and drove a hundred miles home.

Yeah. Now, for him to sit there and say like, I had this moment where I just called out her name and I wanted to undo what I did. Why'd you keep her shoe? Yeah. Why'd you keep her shoe? Yeah. Why'd you keep her shoe?

No. Can you tell me why you kept her shoe then? Right. Like if you would want to remember this and you feel bad about it. But you kept her shoe. That shoe to look back on. Okay, my guy.

But he always keep her shoe. Is that his favorite Jeffrey Brutus? Ah, see if they can have, we haven't covered him yet, but we'll get to him. He's the foot fetish layer. Mind hunter. Yeah.

So that night Rudy, Judy's roommates obviously began to worry. They never heard back from her. They gave her ex-husband a call and they gave him the phone number for Johnny Glenn. Unfortunately, when her ex-husband called the number, it turned out to be the number of a local machine shop. So panic immediately, sudden. Her ex-husband spent the entire evening wandering up and down the sunset strip checking everywhere for her. And when he checked everywhere he could think of he called the police and reported her missing. And how sad is that too that like all these they love each other at one point, you know, and they had some love left for her to be able to go out and look for

her. And they're going through this awful time where they're like aggressive contention going through this custody battle, and I'm sure he's sitting there being like, fuck, like, you know, like it wasn't without worth it. Yeah. That's sad. So the missing person's bulletin went out on Judy the next day,

and it gave a description of Johnny Glenn, and it asked for anyone with information to contact them as soon as they could. On August 3, the news of the disappearance made the papers, and her roommates talked to reporters and they said that they believe that she had met with foul play. They did not believe she had run away. No.

They said they knew something was wrong with the photographer when he told her, quote, he wanted to shoot pin-up pictures, yet he told her to bring a selection of street outfits. Right. Like that doesn't make sense. And they're all models. So they know. Like the actresses, they know. And they were like, this was weird. No one knew who this Johnny Glenn was or where Judy could be.

They talked to friends, family, anybody associates. Detectives even briefly considered her ex-husband, obviously. But he was at work when she disappeared and like clearly was grief-stricken. Right. They wondered, of course, if she ran away and thought maybe she was concocting this fake kidnapping story to garner sympathy for the custody hearing. But then she missed the hearing the following week.

Yeah, she wouldn't have done that. So they abandoned that. So they ran out of people to talk to her or any idea of where she could go. They just assumed she was dead and essentially stopped looking for her. What? There's more pressing matters at hand. Oh, not a crazed serial killer on the loose. Like, okay. Girl just missing somewhere. Yeah. She could still be alive. Yeah. And you're just going to give up on her. Cool. Just gave up. Oh, being a woman in this country. Yeah. Five months later, she would be found, but not identified right away.

Yeah, five months later, she would be found, but not identified right away. A ranch hand was walking his dog in the desert near thousand palms and came upon her, like buried skeleton. I was going to say it. You said five months. Yeah. Like she was a skeleton. Yeah. Yeah. He contacted the sheriff's department and after some excavation, they found her skeleton.

She was later identified as Judy doll. In the grave, they also found one shoe, a fountain pen, a 10-karat gold ring on her left finger. I'm surprised you didn't take that. I know. 10-karats. Yeah. Wow. And an autopsy was conducted, and they really couldn't tell a lot from it, because they were just bones, and at that point, they're not revealed to tell anything actually. Exactly. This time. This is a fictitious right? She went unidentified for about a year. She just laid as bones unidentified bones. Now following that, the murder of Judy Dull, Harvey definitely gained confidence because Oh, yeah, I mean, that's the first time he's killed and then he's completely out of

way with it. So, and he had also landed a full-time job at a TV repair shop in Hollywood that paid like twice minimum wage. So he's feeling like good. And unfortunately, his personality got in the way of that job because he was fired three months after the job started. We love to hear it. But now he's broke. He's out of prospects. But again, he got away with murder. So he's feeling like he can at least do one thing. In February of 1958, he headed back to Denver to visit his mom.

And no one really knows what happened in Denver, but he like didn't get a job. He didn't have any money, but he was able to return to Los Angeles pretty quickly after and run to bungalow just around the corner from his old apartment with no stable income or job. Maybe he had saved that money from that place that paid double-owned mortgage.

Or a failure just gave him a shit ton of money. Yeah, but did she even have a shit ton to give him? I don't even know. Well, maybe his father's life insurance. Maybe there you go. But so he loses his job. He goes to visit his mom. He spends some time there. He comes back. He runs a brand new bungalow. And now at this point, he's gotten away with murder. And he's still getting away with murder. Yeah, it's been like a long time. He's emboldened now, because he's like, well shit, they found her and they still don't, even know it's her.

Right, and at that point, you're nearing a year. So by March, he'd be gone hunting for a new victim. He assumed police were gonna be looking for the photographer and models thing. So he was like, you know what, I gotta change that up. So instead, he turned to the Patty Sullivan Lonely Hearts Club. Oh. After paying the $10 mission fee,

which is big mission fee back then. Oh yeah. Harvey registered as George Williams, who he said was a plumber from Pasadena. No, he wasn't. Yeah. He changed the means of getting the woman, but he was gonna keep the rest of it

pretty much the same as before. He would arrange the meeting with the woman, see if she met his standards, and if so, he was going to bring her out to the desert and do exactly what he'd done to Judy Del. Now, the first date he went on was, according to him, a disappointment because the woman just talked the entire time and she had a dominating personality that really turned him off. He would have hated us. I said that was like, all right. So like he would have hated us. I talked so much. The Harvey's of the world shit their pants on a dominating woman. But the second date he went on, he said, was what he was looking for. And this was with Shirley Ann Bridgeford and it was very different for Harvey.

Shirley was only 24 years old, but she'd done a lot of living. She, by 1958 at 24, she'd already been married and divorced for three years. And when she met Harvey, she was struggling to get by and support her two sons. And their names were Ricky and Billy. Oh my gosh, so cute. Now, Shirley was just out here hoping that she paid $10, which was a fucking lot for anybody, but especially a single mom.

Yeah, just looking for love. She was hoping she could find someone that would help her raise her sons. Yeah, she was looking for a good man. A father figure. She just being her son's life. That's all she was out here looking for. Like, what the fuck?

That's so sad. Shirley hadn't apparently apparently according to Harvey. Surely it said she hadn't received much attention from men at the Lonely Hearts Club. She's beautiful. So. So probably not really. Either men are fake as fuck out here,

or I mean, I would put my hand on that. Or Harvey's lying, which either one. I'd put money on both those bets. So she was very excited. On March 7th, she got a call from George Williams asking if she would be interested in joining him for square dancing that evening. So she agreed and she was all excited.

He was going to pick her up at 7.45 pm. But she had never met him or seen him. So she had her children, her mother and two sisters be at her house when he came to pick her up. Okay. So he saw her entire family and still did and still did. And they all said there didn't seem to be anything really like stranger off about him. I mean, he's not. He's ugly as fuck, but it's like he's not somebody you would

look at and be like, I bet he's a demon. Like it's not. And he's ugly as fuck because we hate him. Exactly. He's like a pretty normal. But when you look at him and like, you know, by those standards, it's like, what, you wouldn't, you wouldn't baton that like, no, who he is, no. Now, the thing is, no one seemed to remember the description of Johnny Glenn that had been up months earlier

because the police had just given up on it. Right. They hadn't been pumping it out to people, so everyone forgot about it. So this is in Johnny Glenn. This is George Wilson's. Exactly. And he was essentially able to go under the

radar because he's got that face. He's got those fucking hormone hormone glasses, those huge ears. Like everything just described to a T who he is, Johnny Glenn. But because the police stopped putting that out there, people forgot. And I mean, I want to back then where people like obviously, people are using fake names a ton back then. Who knew? You would never think it. So they went out, they set off and Harvey asked surely if she would mind if they changed plans for the evening. If a man says, do you mind if we change plans for the evening, say yes. I do mind. Take me home, please. Yep. The end.

And then punch them in the face. Take me square dancing or take me no less. The square dancing or bust, that's it. But it seems to be that when a change of plans comes in, it's like, if you don't know that man say, no, no, no, no, no, no, plans, we had plans. So he said he wanted to take a drive along the coast instead of square dancing. Which of course that's gonna be so appealing to her.

She's looking for romance. Romance. She's just looking for an amazing night. And we know that piece of shit. And the two stopped at a cafe in Oceanside. They talked, they ate dinner together. All of them to bring her to a cafe. Oh, yes.

Then they got back in the car and they just kind of drove around. And again, we only have his version of the story here, unfortunately. He claims they drove around aimlessly for a little while, and that he was wrestling with whether or not he wanted to go through with this, because he said she wasn't a pin-up model, like the others, so maybe she didn't deserve it. What? Get so fucked. What kind of standard is that? Get so fucked. If you're a pin-up model,

you should be killed, but maybe not alone. No, you know what? No, yeah, we're just gonna go with it. Okay. Now eventually he pulled the car off to the side of a dark mountain road. He said they spent some time kissing and talking, and then Shirley was like, I don't wanna go any further. Yeah. By the way, because she has a fucking right to say that.

100%. And according to Harvey, he kept trying to persuade her to have sex with him, because he's a disgusting little rat boy and before then so he's pushing her pushing her then he takes the gun out and he tells her get in the back seat Oh my god. She apparently fought him for a minute, but the gun scared her so she ended up crawling into the back seat Because what else is she gonna fucking do? Yeah, and it's not every day you had a gun in your face He crawled back there and he raped Shirley. It's fucking gross.

After he had raped her, he realized there was nothing else he could do. He was going to have to kill her. And he said it was for his own safety. What? Because we care about your safety, little shit's name. Wow. Just past 10 o'clock, Harvey began driving towards San Diego and he told Shirley the same exact thing

that he told all the other women. He said he was gonna let her go in a remote location. He was gonna give her bus fare but that she had to keep her mouth shut. So he pulled into Anza, Burengo Desert State Park in Burego Springs, excuse me, and he found a dark spot to pull over. He made her get out of the car, he got a blanket,

he got the rope from the trunk. They began walking for a dark spot to put the blanket out. Now, he confessed later to all this, and in the confession, he said he'd already decided in the car that he was going to kill Shirley, the same way he killed Judy. Wow. Once he found the place, he put the blanket down, he made her undress so he could take photos of her. Such a dick. After taking photos of Shirley Nude, he then went without warning, what wrapped the rope around her ankles, and he said, pulled it so as to bend her knees,

put his knee at the small of her back, looped the rope twice around her neck and pulled as hard as he could for five minutes or so until there did not seem to be any sign of life. That is a slow agonized death. It's horrific. He's a horrific human being. It was almost dawn by the time he stopped taking pictures of her, by the way, of her dead body.

He is on another level. Yeah, he then dragged her off under a nearby cactus because he later told police, he felt she should be under something. Oh, shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. You piece of garbage sitting there being like, I feel like she's in me coming. I feel like she should be alive and with her kids. You piece of shit. Exactly. That's what I feel like. And under a cactus, like that's gonna provide some kind of. What an asshole. Any any comfort.

And then as he's sitting here being like, I believe. You mean under something. Because I can't. Oh really, why did you take her underwear and strips of cloth from the bottom of her dress as souvenirs? It's fucking silly. You contradicting a mother fucker.

Yeah. Like get out of here. So then he gathered everything of hers, including her purse and he went to his car. He drove home and as he drove home, he threw the contents of her purse out the window as he drove along the highway. Oh, but he kept 30 cents from her purse. Okay. Of course Shirley's family panicked. Yeah. When she didn't come home, they called the police to report her missing. And unfortunately, because he had called himself George Williams and given a fake address and phone number, and this is the 50s, they could not find him. And how sad is that that they looked him in the face? Looked him in the fucking face. And he said, I'll have her home by

this time. Hours looked at her kids and said, by this man looked at her her level of mom's talk. And took their mother out of that fucking house to do that to her. Like, wow, like you are on another level. Not many cases where that happens. Where they look those kids in the face only to take their mother and mother and sisters. You said her mother, like wow, look her mother, her sister, and her kids in the fucking face and then took her out of that house.

Like multiple generations connected to this moment. And was like, I'm gonna destroy your life tonight. That's so fun. That's really, honestly, that probably added to it for him. Truly, it probably did. He's such a, and I hate that he's one of those. I hate those ones. That's it there later.

And I like, I do want to do that. Yeah, I wrestled with it. I, you know, I just, I grabbed her face and I yelled there and I wanted her to come up. I put her under something because I wanted her to be cover. Shut the fuck up. No, it's like you wouldn't have killed the little shit. Shut the fuck up. No one wants to hear you cry about it now.

Fuck off. Exactly. Like the same ones that will sit there in a courtroom and look at the family and be like, I'm so sorry. Get fucked. No one cares that you're sorry. If you were sorry, you wouldn't have done it. I'm sorry, I didn't buy those pair of shoes that now I that you're sorry. If you were sorry, you wouldn't have done it.

I'm sorry. I didn't buy those pair of shoes that now I can't find anywhere. That's what you can be sorry about. Exactly. You're not sorry that you fucking took someone's mother, daughter, and sister and friend away from them after looking at the fucking face

in the most horrific and degrading way, too. You raped, you took photos of her, you, like you're disgusting, for five minutes you choked the life out of these women, you're disgusting. Absolutely, just kidding. And that's the other thing, it's like you sit there and you're like,

you know, I do not want to do any wrestled with it. Fuck off, you sat there for five to 10 minutes holding onto that rope. Yeah. For that entire time, you had all ample time to stop. Yeah, like all the time in the world. That's so fucked. And it's like, this isn't like 2023.

It's like these women, if they say they're not gonna fucking tell anybody about your face, they're probably not going to. There's no internet. There's nothing. What are they gonna do? And they don't know your name. Exactly. You get the name of a fake name. She didn't even know where you lived. You picked her.

Exactly. Like, forget what I look like. They will forget what you look like. You're such a piece of shit. It makes me really angry. So detective Dave Ostrough, who'd been assigned to the Judy doll kidnapping, actually thought the descriptions of the family had, they were kind of vague of what he looked like because obviously they weren't thinking they had to take every bit of his face into account when they saw him. He thought they kind of did match Johnny Glenn, but that's kind of all they had. Okay. He was like, this might be the same guy. Or, I don't know, this guy is. Yeah. That's the problem. So the case went cold pretty quickly. Oh.

Now by April of 1958, he was still unemployed. He's living off of Ophelia sending him money on a regular basis. It's funny that he's living off of a woman and acting this way towards women. Yes, but I'm glad that one is keeping you afloat. You fucking loser. Yeah. Like real cool. Now as part of his plan to stay out of jail and undetected, he had actually built a small dark room

in his apartment. And he would develop the photos that he takes of these victims, including Judy Dull and Shirley Bridgeford, both before, during and after their deaths. That's so messed up. And he kept the photos in a medium-sized metal toolbox. And in that toolbox, he also had Judy shoe, Shirley's underwear, anything he took from them. So he's really remorseful. You know, he really wrestles with this. Yeah, definitely. Now by July of that year, he felt like enough time had passed.

The heat was off, no one was on him, like no one was even close to talking to him about it. So he's like, I can hunt again, because the police gave up again, so why not? Like come on, LAPD. But this time he figured he would go back to his other method of doing the photo shoot thing. So he went through local papers and he came across an advertisement for a model

by the name of Angela Rojas, who was available immediately for modeling work. So he called the number and he found out that Angela was a pseudonym used by Ruth Mercado. She was a 24 year old model who just arrived in Los Angeles from Platsburg, New York, five years earlier. She was a badass. She had served in the women's air force during the Korean War and was honorably discharged. And after she was discharged, she would straight to Hollywood for dreams of like stardom. Good for her. She had done the badass thing. And now she's like, I'm going to all my dreams. Yeah, stardom. Good for her. She had done the bad ass thing and now she's like, I'm gonna, all my dreams.

Yeah, let's do it. Unfortunately, when things weren't really working out for her and she was not being discovered, she turned to modeling as a way of making money while still staying kind of a little bit in the entertainment industry, you know, but she was doing the detective magazine kind of thing, the kind of thing.

Keep it afloat. She was also working to supplement that income at a strip club, so she was doing stripping just to make money to get to pay her rent, to feed her herself. When Harvey called, he said his name was Frank, and that he was a magazine photographer, and he was looking for new talent. So she was actually very eager to get some work and exposure, so she said, of course, she'd love to meet him.

She gave him the address of her apartment, and he was going to stop by later that evening. So he did. But when Ruth opened the door, he was like, what's wrong? And she was like, I'm so sorry. I meant to call you, I'm not feeling well. Oh, she said she didn't have his number and he was like frustrated. And yeah, Harvey thought she was lying about being sick and he was like frustrated. And he had Harvey thought she was lying about being sick and he was like, I know exactly what it is. He was like, she saw me and saw what I looked like and decided not to let me in. That was so.

It's about you. That's about you. I forgot that the world revolves around Harvey. Yep. He said, it's fine. We'll take a rain check and he left. Oh, yeah. But he said he had the gun in his pocket

and he almost pulled it out, but he didn't. Like what? So he said he went home and the more he thought about it, the angrier he got and the more in cell his vibe became. And the more it was now her faults, how dare her. How dare she have a cold? He said he started thinking about, oh, she's not even really an actor,

so her model, she's a fucking stripper. And she thinks she's above me, like he started pulling that. Like, of like- Inselli? Inselli. Exactly. Inselli. Inselli's below him because she's a stripper.

It's like, sweetie. How dare she turn him down? Literally not even like nothing is below you. So he decided to show up at her apartment unannounced. Oh my God. And on July 23rd, which was Wednesday, he just showed up unannounced. And she was like shocked.

And was like, what the fuck, but she was like, I am feeling better. So yeah, let's do a photo shoot. Yeah, she was like, I'm not like, I was sick. I didn't think I was really sick. I'm above you. I'm just literally sick. Yeah.

So she left Harvey in her living room to put her dog in the bathroom so that the dog wouldn't flip out. Oh no. And when she returned to the living room, she found Harvey with a gun in his hand and he directed her to her bedroom. Oh my God.

Then he bound and gagged her to her bed or on her bed. And then he went back out into the main section of the apartment he said he made sure all the doors were locked so that he wouldn't be interrupted. Maybe sure the dog was still into the main section of the apartment. He said he made sure all the doors were locked so that he wouldn't be interrupted. Made sure the dog was still in the bathroom and she was panicking this whole time. Yep. And then he went back in the bedroom and he told her he wanted to have sex with her, which I love that like that's the, how he's saying, I want to have sex with you. You want to rape her. Yeah, let's be clear. Not my guys. You're not having sex with her. Sex with her.

Sex with her. You're rape made. So just say it. Say what you want to do. And he said he was going to untie her, but he warned her not to do anything foolish, or if you would hurt her. So Harvey, this is awful. Harvey raped Ruth for a minimum of four or five times over the course of the next few hours, four or five times. Oh my god, an hour, an hours. In hours. And when he was done, he said, again, he was wrestling with what to do.

Totally. He just, I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna do it. And he later said, quote, I didn't wanna kill her. She was the one that I really liked. But that's bullshit because like, he killed her. He clearly didn't. And it's like, you're sitting, you're saying,

you're constantly like, oh my gosh, what do I do? What do I do? But every single time you end up killing somebody. So you clearly aren't struggling with it. You're not struggling. Because 10 out of 10 times you've, you've come to that ultimate conclusion. So yeah, no, no. But he told her he wanted to quote, take her on a picnic. Then he loaded her into his black dodge just after midnight and began to drive Southeast from Los Angeles towards the desert in San Diego. They spent nearly like they spent the entire day in the desert.

He was just rafing her and taking photographs of her for like hours. He later would say that this was them making love. That's so foul. Yeah. That is like beyond foul. Fowl is the perfect way to describe that. Yeah. What the fuck is wrong with you, bro? It wasn't until 9 p.m. that he went to the car, got the ropes, directed her to walk until they found his spot. He spent like almost 48 hours with him. It's being tortured by him. Wow. And he removed her clothing and took more photographs

than he killed her using the exact same method that he had used on Judy Dull and Shirley Bridgeford. And that's the other thing. If you're slowly garotting someone to death, then you're not wrestling with this. You're not struggling with the act of murder. It would, if you shot her, I would, that may be, I would think that you wrestled for a second, but you have so much time to change this. And it's so personal.

So personal, so agonizing, so horrific. And you're taking pictures of the entire thing before, don't you? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's like, no, no, you're not struggling with shit. This is what you like to do. This is what you get off doing. Like exactly. You fucking honest about it if you're not struggling with shit. This is what you like to do. This is what you get off doing. Like exactly. You fucking honest about it.

If you're that gross. Yeah. Don't be a dick. What the fuck? So after he was convinced that she had died, he rolled her body off the blanket and covered her with some brush. He basically didn't try to hide her. Like you just right now in the open.

He went back to the car. He looked through her purse. He stole her watch and a few dollars she had. And then he drove back to Los Angeles and threw out all the rest of the stuff as he did in the highway. Wow. Now her landlord was actually the first person to notice that she had gone missing because he saw the male piling up on her door. So he actually wrote a letter to her mother thinking like maybe she had gone back to New York. And when he wrote the letter to her mother, her mother contacted the LAPD to do the report of her being missing.

Well, it's so sad. And just like Judy and Shirley, Ruth's missing person case was given complete low priority. They didn't care. They had no information. So they were like, ah, she probably ran off and didn't tell anybody. Yeah, because people just do that all the time. It's like, I don't think so, my guys. And in fact, two months passed before her photo appeared

in the LAPD police football attempt. That's a fucking shame in a house. And on that photo, where the notes may seek employment at nude modeling or as a stripper and mental condition poor. What about her mental condition was poor? Wow, LAPD. Like there's nothing to say that her mental condition is poor. Yeah. What about her mental condition was poor? Wow, LAPD. Like there's nothing to say that her mental condition is poor. Yep. What? So it is very fortunate that the next victim actually is the one that cracks this case because the police sure is fuck we're gonna do it.

Let's hear it for Lorraine Vigil. Woo-woo! Who we're gonna talk about in part two. Oh, I had a feeling you were gonna do that because her story is wild. And honestly, I think we all need a little more. Yeah, I think everybody go watch Bravo right now. Yeah. Think of Shower, wash that all off. You know, like watch something spooky, spooky always makes me feel good. Yeah, paint your nails.

Paint your nails. All friend. Have some tea. I'm watching Summer House tonight. Yeah, paint your nails. Paint your nails. All friends. You have some teeth. I'm watching Summer House tonight. Oh, there you go. There you go. Summer House premieres tonight. Ooh, I'm excited. There you go.

Ten-yellow and Lindsey R.F. What happens? You know, I always knew. Honestly, I always knew. I probably did. Like, I believe you. I literally did. I literally did.

Literally, I did. So, guys, we hope that you keep listening. Yeah. And we hope you keep it weird But not as weird as this mother fucking himself because Harvey suck. Bye Hey, prime members, you can listen to morbvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.