Morbid - Episode 589: John George Haigh: The Acid Bath Murderer

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

On February 20, 1949, police in London arrested thirty-nine-year-old John George Haigh on suspicion of his connection to Olive Durand-Deacon, a wealthy widow who’d gone missing a few days earlier. Haigh had a long criminal history of fraud and theft, so when police discovered that Haigh had recently pawned several items belonging to the missing woman, they naturally believed he had robbed and possibly killed Duran-Deacon. The truth, they soon learned, was far worse.After days of interrogation, Haigh eventually confessed to the murder of Olive Durand-Deacon, telling detectives he had drained her of her blood, which he intended to drink, then disposed of her body in a forty-five gallon barrel of acid—but she was far from the first of his victims. By the time his case went to trial, investigators had connected Haigh to six victims, all dissolved in acid, and he’d confessed to three additional murders that were unconfirmed. In his confession, Haigh claimed he’d murdered his victims in order to drink their blood; though, it’s far more likely his motive was primarily greed. Nevertheless, Haigh’s claim was immediately seized upon by the British tabloids, who labeled him a “vampire killer” and provided endless sensational coverage of the arrest, trial, and his eventual execution. Thank you to the incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesDaily Record. 1949. "Haigh was a model boy." Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland), July 20: 1.Evening Dispatch. 1949. "Haigh: Defence will plead insanity." Evening Dispatch (Birmingham, England), July 18: 1.—. 1949. "Silence in court." Evening Dispatch (Birmingham, England), July 1: 1.Evening Express. 1949. "Haigh for trial at Old Bailey." Evening Express (Liverpool, England), April 2: 1.Evening Sentinel. 1949. "Dramatic developments in mystery of missing widow." Evening Sentinel (Staffordshire, England), March 1: 1.Herald Express. 1949. "'Haigh put the body in a drum' - prosectiuon." Herald Today (Devon, England), April 1: 1.Lincolnshire Echo. 1949. "Haigh lived to lives, says mind doctor." Lincolnshire Echo, July 19: 1.Lowe, Gordon. 2015. The Acid Bath Murders: The Trials and Liquidations of John George Haigh. Cheltenham, UK: History Press.Ramsland, Katherine. 2006. "John George Haigh: A Malingerer's Legacy." The Forensic Examiner 59-62.Root, Neil. 2012. Frenzy: The First Great Tabloid Murders. New York, NY: Preface Publishing.Sunday Dispatch. 1949. "Wide search for missing rich widow." Sunday Dispatch (London, England), February 27: 1.The Times. 1949. "Hiagh sentenced to death." The Times (London, England), July 20: 2.Western Daily Press. 1949. "Haigh smiles at sentence." Western Daily Press, July 20: 1.Western Morning News. 1949. "Yard fears for fate of five people." Western Morning News, March 3: 1.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free on Wondery Plus. Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. I've had a ma-ha-ha blast, so I am cuckoo crazy. I almost said ah. Ah. I hope that. It's affecting her too, folks. I almost said ah sh.

Ah sh. Ah sh. Please do. Ah sh. Please go for it. Has become a Baja blast at this point. I'm always a Baja blast. She's on a Baja blast level.

Because I had a chai, which had caffeine, and then I had excedrin migraine Which also has caffeine and then I had a bah ha ha blast so I might explode during this episode So my heart might explode but we might have to call an ambulance But that's fine. We So, hey everybody hi This is this is just like a fun fun thing we just wanted to mention to you. We have another podcast, you know, Scream.

And you know, the re-watcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It's our favorite. It's so fun to do. And we have a blast with it. And we got a big get. A big get. Huge. We got Juliet Landau to be a guest

in the last episode. Who is Drusilla? She's Drusilla. She's one of my favorite characters on the show and it was a fucking huge get because I, like 14, 15 year old me would have never thought in a million years that I was gonna be talking to Drusilla. Like never. She was just on your wall.

She was a treat, like a true treat. She is a delight of a human being. And I'm saying this to one, just be like, guys, because you're like my friends. So I'm like, friends, I got to talk to Drew. And also because Drusilla herself, Juliet Landau has a podcast where she is going through Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And as a cast member, that's like a totally different experience.

Yeah, and she has like her own Scoobies, she calls them. And it's called Slayin' It. So go check it out. Because you know, like, game, see game, you know? Hell yeah. Let's all support each other. So go listen to it. It's awesome, she's awesome.

I'm sure she's gonna have some kick-ass guests. Oh yeah. So it's definitely worth a listen and listen to the re It's awesome. She's awesome. I'm sure she's going to have some kick-ass guests. Oh, yeah. So it's definitely worth a listen and listen to the re-watcher because we love it and it's so much fun. And if you haven't watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it's a real fun time. Yeah, you can watch along with me. That's the whole premise of the show.

Because Ash has never watched it. So this is her first time going through it and it's my like 5500th time. We're already on season five. It's nuts. Yeah. So let's go party. But that was just like a fun little thing I wanted you guys to go check out after you listen to this episode,

go listen to either Slayn It or The Rewatcher. Both, like first and then third, you know what I mean? Well, second and then third. Hit one of them. Yeah. I mean, and then hit the other one third. I haven't had enough caffeine. Just listen to all the podcasts. Simultaneously. You guys know how to add to the queue. Just add it to your queue. Add it to your queue. Add it to your queue. Just swipe. Swipe. I

don't know which way. You're like, just swipe, man. Just swipe, man. Swipe. Swipe your hand on the screen of yours and see what happens. I don't know if that's a commercial or like an actual song. I don't know. Also, sorry if you heard a... It was my hair clip. Yeah, back to the old days of Ash fucking around with things that are in. Sorry. I...

My... My like fidgeting lately has been cuckoo nuts. Probably anxiety. Yep. And stress. Yes. Yes and yes. I was like, I can diagnose this.

So. Yeah, because actually I had to skip therapy last week because Drew got sick when we got back from DC and then I had tummy trouble. So I said, I cannot come in today, sister. I don't even have to go anywhere. I just do it on my computer. But I said, I can't do it, babe. I cannot log on today.

I said it way more professionally than that. And then she was out this week. Oh, no. Two weeks raw dog in life. I'm two weeks raw talking life. It's not going well, bitch. It's not great. And life has been raw-dogging us. Honey, I thought that I was raw-dogging life,

and life said, turn around, baby. She got so real. My therapist doesn't even know what to do. I hope she's enjoying vacation, because honey, you got a big storm coming. She's going to be like, I'm going to tell her I need a two hour session. She's going to need therapy after the therapy session with you. She needs therapy after all my sessions, I think.

She's also, let me just tell you, she's the kindest lady ever. I would give you her name, but HIPAA. But HIPAA. She's so good. You know, therapists. Because to deal with my ass. Therapists out there. Hell yeah. Yeah. You rule. I don't know how you do it. Thanks for existing because damn. Because life just won't be without you. Anyway. On that note, we're okay. Don't worry about it. Sips Baja Blast. Wait, I'm sorry. That's how you know I'm in a bad place.

When you're sipping your Baja Blast. When you're sipping a blue drink in the middle of a workday. A what? A blue drink in the middle of a workday. When I'm sipping on nuclear horse pee on a workday. That's when you know things are awry. So speaking of awry, and somebody who could have benefited from therapy.

That was a great transition. We're going to talk about John George Hay, who is the acid bath murderer. How about John George Nay? Yeah, John George Hay. Yeah. John George Hay. John George Bay. You got to make a gross face like, Ooh. So let's talk about John George Hay.

He had quite a childhood. You said acid bath? Yep. I sure did. I just needed to clarify. I was like 10 minutes later, you're like, wait a second. Acid bath, you say? Sometimes that doesn't penetrate like past the cranium.

That one was rough. All right. Rough childhood. But John George Hay had not a great childhood. Probably not. A tough childhood. Again, I think you guys know by now, six years in, I'm not validating what he did by saying that.

For a second, I was like, I'm not saying he should have done this. No, no, no, no. No. So John George Hay was born July 24th. That was yesterday. Whoa. He's weird.

I didn't even mean to do that. Why does that happen so often? I'm just fucking with you. Why does that happen so often? That's weird. No, but actually that's something that has happened since like the beginning of this pod or even like, like we would cover something and then like a major thing about it would break.

Yeah. And it was always after. I was like, well. Cause we're witches. Yeah, something's up with that. Or we just have bad timing, I don't know. But he was born in 1909, which it is not. No. And he was born in, I looked this up,

Lincolnshire, England. Okay. I wanted to make sure I say it right for you guys. To John Senior and Emily Hay. Just a few months before his birth, John's father lost his job at the Stamford electrical plant and obviously this put a big financial strain on the family and with a new baby coming and it being 1909 and all, this was pretty stressful. But later after John George Hay's trial, John George Hay Jr. Emily Hay, his mother would say that, quote,

the financial and emotional instability this caused at the time affected her son in the womb and twisted his mind. Wait, the financial instability did that? Yeah. The financial instability twisted a baby in Uniro's mind. And that's why he became what he became. I will say I've heard crazier shit than that,

but that's high on the list. That's pretty high up. Forget it, if you were born during a recession, you're fucked. Your mind's twisted. I'm gonna go ahead and say probably not, but I'm not a doctor. Fortunately, John J. Senior, or John Hay Senior, excuse me,

managed to find work with a mining company in West Yorkshire a few months after the birth of John Hay Jr. But it was too late, his mind was already twisted. Already twisted from the financial strain of it all. And the family relocated to nearby Wakefield. Now, here's where we're gonna learn about like what his childhood was like,

because above all else This family was defined and ruled by religion They were devout followers of the Plymouth Brethren, which was a non ritualistic and anti clerical branch of Protestantism they adhered to an Incredibly strict because I wasn't saying like religion, that's the problem. No, it's just this in particular is a wild way for a kid to grow up. More like a cult.

It is a very strict set of inflexible rules from the Old Testament. And this was also not the norm in England. It's not like everybody was going for this. And you know, like this particular flavor of religious fervor and piety. You didn't call it a flavor.

What did I call it? No, you did. I was like, what did I call it? You didn't call it a flavor. I did. Like, oh no, she did not. This flavor of religious fervor and piety made them like oddballs to their neighbors. Like this was not accepted.

This was not a thing that everybody was doing. In fact, they were very disconnected from their neighbors because of it. And they considered their neighbors quote sinners and dangerous to their souls. So this is where I say this is the dangerous thing because this isn't like their set of rules that they're only keeping for themselves.

This is them breeding an idea in that household that people around you are evil and demonic, and that they are going to be the reason you don't get to heaven. Yeah, it's giving Ed Gein's mom. Yeah, so it gives the idea like you got to do what you got to do to make sure that you get to go to heaven. And it's also just creating like a crazy amount of isolation in a young child's life. Wild amount.

Like, among other things, Plymouth Brethren forbid any forms of entertainment, sports, or celebration. Oh, that's really sad. And reading is strictly limited to the Old Testament Bible, and that's it. Oh my God, how boring. Yeah, and a child, that's it. Like kids need other stuff. Like your mind has to develop past just like,

it's fine if you're like religious, obviously. Like that can play a part in your life. But religious fervor is dangerous. That's the thing. It's like, that can't be your whole life. Yeah, it's when it becomes to this extent that it's, that gets dangerous. Yeah, you have to be allowed to enjoy other things

In fact, John senior would frequently say to his son. It's a sin to be happy in this world. What? Yeah, I Mean, I guess I'm not sitting. I'm just kidding. Yeah, it's like So just joking. I'm just joshing. No, but he really would say that to his son and John jr. Early life was devoted entirely to trying to avoid the actual, like the infinite list of sin that was told to be to him to be in the world around him. And he had to make sure he was obsessed with behaving in a way that would please God and ensure his spot in heaven. That's so much pressure.

Because that's the whole message is like everyone around you is a sinner. Everyone around you is demonic and they are all doing everything they can to trick you into a path that will lead to you not being allowed to go to heaven. And you will displease God. And this is like a child. Yeah.

But like the financial strain in the womb though. You know? That was really it. I think that's probably. That did the worst damage. Now believing the modern world to be very wicked and sinful. And happy. That wasn't very happy.

That wasn't just like rhetoric for this family. It was a genuine belief. It was a belief that everyone around them, their neighbors, people they met, family, friends, anybody, they were a true, true threat to their eternal souls. Like that is the idea here. And in order to protect his family from this, John Senior built a 10-foot tall fence around the house and would not let John Junior go out in the yard or leave the yard. That's so dark.

Yeah. Instead, John Jr. would just spend all of his free time indoors with his mother or just sitting in the house in a room practicing hymns on the organ for hours and hours. Oh, that could drive you absolutely mad. One reporter said he just sat there and dreamed dreams of a grim world of religious fantasy. Oh God. But the financial strain in the womb. That's wild that she pointed to that.

I was like, really? That's all you can point to? Not the isolation? But despite their fears of the outside world and the intense isolation that they put their child through, John's parents did know that a good education was something of value. Okay, that's good. So they encouraged their son to, and they kind of went too hard on this too because they really encouraged perfection at school

where he went to Wakefield Grammar School. He was remembered by his teachers as a good boy and a model scholar. I bet. But some of his teachers did call him a mischievous boy, but I think that's just like little kids. Oh, he was just trying to have fun when he wasn't at home. Exactly. And that said this like enforced isolation that he was under all the time, especially

from his peers and anyone else that meant that he had no friends and he really didn't ever interact with kids his age. He was always around two adults at all times. And so he spent a lot of time, like he didn't really, he wasn't good at making friends and he spent a lot of time alone, but he did develop, and this later we're going to find out like it's weird that he changes, but he developed a real love of animals. He used to really dote on rabbits that he found in the woods and he would feed the neighborhood's stray dogs and cats.

Like he was very, I think he just wanted friends. Oh, that's really sad. Like you feel sad for the child. Sad for the child, of course. Now following his graduation from high school in 1926, things started to take a turn. Like he was suddenly seeing that there was a world. So John Jr. went to work for an engineering firm

where he trained as a motor mechanic. His father had worked as an engineer most his life. So John Jr. did have a strong interest in mechanical engineering. And he was actually hoping to follow in his father's footsteps, because again, that's literally all he knew. But within a few months, he found that the pace of the job

and like the amount of manual labor involved in it was a little too taxing for him. He was very smart, but he was a little lazy and he was disinclined towards physical work. And I think that's a lot of the time, I think that's like, cause was he really doing a whole lot? Nobody was coming to their house. Their house probably wasn't like, he wasn't probably doing a whole lot? I'm sure nobody was coming to their house.

Their house probably wasn't like, he wasn't probably doing a ton of chores in that house. You know, like he just sat around all day and read the Old Testament and played hymns on the organ. That's what he was used to. So it's like now he's being asked to like do work. And he's like, I don't know what that is. He's like, that's a lot, bro.

He's like, I don't know. Can I just sit and read this Bible though? And they're like, no, you can't. They're like, that's not the job title at all. So he wasn't loving it. So he was not willing to put in the work at the engineering firm and he quit. And afterwards he took a desk job at an insurance company.

And that's where he discovered that he did have quite a knack for numbers and accounting. Because again, he's a smart kid. Yeah. By 1930, he had moved on to a larger, more specialized insurance company that also had like a focus on advertising. So here he was very successful, but then his employer suspected that he was the one that had been stealing from the office cash box and he got fired.

That's a sin. Stealing. As we'll see, he takes a turn away from religion. I guess so. Yeah, so he got fired, but undeterred. And at 21 years old, he started his own advertising company, Northern Electric Newspapers Limited, which actually made a pretty brief appearance on the London Stock Exchange. So mildly successful.

At 21 too. That's crazy. Which again, sad. It looks like he had some promise here. And like just used potential to a point and then I'm assuming it goes completely unused. Again he was very intelligent. He had some skills that he really could have used. And in this moment, like at this time,

he gave him the appearance of being successful, even though he wasn't doing like a lot of real work. And his confidence and ability to persuade others, he was very charming. He somehow gained some charm and charisma through being isolated. I don't really know how. I wonder if he just like watched people

for like kind of studied people. I think you are absolutely right with that. I think that's part of his thing is he studies people and takes pieces of other people's personalities. Cause we'll see him do that when he tries to get an insanity defense as well. Okay. So I totally agree with you.

But this was also like you just said, he watches people. This was going to be like a pretty critical thing in his criminal development as well. I had a feeling. In the next couple of years, he started running a number of petty scams in the leads area because again, he doesn't really want to work for his money. He just wants it easy. So he started defrauding local businesses of like small amounts of money or he would just skip out on bills for services and see what he could get away with. Oh, that's shitty. Yeah, that's like H.H. Holmes.

Yeah, it's fucked up. Now, four years after starting his company, the first big thing occurred in John's life, a big major event on July 6th. I don't know why I said July. And then you said 6th. July 6th, 1934. I need a speech pathologist. Yes. He married his girlfriend, 21 year old Beatrice Hammer. Okay, cool. What a sick fucking name.

Beatrice Hammer. This marriage was like a shock to everyone. Yeah. Cause they were like, who, what? It happened really fast. Like everybody was just like, what are you talking about? Very much so in Beatrice's family, because the couple had been dating like

almost no time at all. And they knew nothing about him, her family. So they were like, what? Her sister, Rose Williams told a reporter, Beatrice was married without our family knowing after a very quick courtship. And she said, after her wedding, Beatrice had written home saying what a wonderful man

he was and how kind he had been. And she said, but wedding, Beatrice had written home saying what a wonderful man Hay was and how kind he had been. And she said, but within 12 months of marriage, they were separated after Hay had received a jail sentence. Oh no. So they were like, yeah, super kind man. Yeah. Whenever I come home after like a long day at work or even like if I've been away from home for a little bit, one thing that I love to do the most that really just makes me feel cozy and comfy is I go into my little den and I curl up in my comfy chair and I open

my book up and I just stay there for hours. There's no better feeling than loving your home and Wayfair makes it easy to create a space where you can relax, unwind, no matter the season. It is the place to shop for every home from living room seating that fits the whole family to bedroom finds that help you cozy up and snuggle in. One of my favorite pieces in my den is this really cozy chair that we have. It's actually, it's from Wayfair, obviously. It's called the Ray upholstered armchair and we got it in this it's called reddish brown velvet, but to me, it kind of looks like a mauvey pink. It just fits the space so well. It looks like it was made for the space and it is so comfortable. I love it. Wayfair is the go to destination for everything home no matter your style or budget. There's a waver hood and every zip code brought to life

by everyone who makes their home truly their own with Wayfair, and it is good to come home when you live in the waverhood. Visit Wayfair.com or download the Wayfair app. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. When your schedule is packed with kids' activities, big work projects, and more, it's really easy to let your priorities slip. Even when we know what makes us happy, it's hard to make time for it. But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are even more important than ever. Personally, I believe so much in therapy. If I have like two weeks without therapy,

I just actually had two weeks without therapy because I was on vacation and then my therapist was on vacation, I notice a difference in the way that I am operating and boy do I operate better when I just have a little me time to chat with my therapist about what's going on in my life. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule, and all you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with the licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp.

Visit BetterHelp.com slash morbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash morbid. Now after experimenting with some small con jobs in the early 1930s, he started ramping it up. He's doing these little petty things. He's defrauding some businesses. Seeing what he can get away with. Seeing what he can get away with.

Totally rebelling against that religious upbringing. Evidently. But it seems to have occurred to him at some point during this that there was easier ways of making money than putting in any kind of hard work because you seeing it work. Yeah. Like he's seeing these frauds and these comms actually pay off. Right. Later, he would say, I did not ask myself whether I was doing right or wrong.

That seemed to me to be irrelevant, which is shocking and very against what he had had drilled into him. Yeah. Which it's like, that just went backfired. You wonder though, if he just, I mean, it must've been really tough to grow up in the household that he did. So he probably has some kind of like disassociation,

disassociative personality where he can just turn it on and turn it off. Or something where he like compartmentalizes pieces of things, you know what I mean? Where it's just like, yeah, I didn't even think about that. Like something that could be used as a coping mechanism, but on the, on its, on the side could be used as something. Very strange, very interesting. But because of this, because he didn't really care if it was right or wrong, John began running a scam on local car dealerships. He would buy cars under fake names,

and then he would arrange to pay them on an installment plan, but then turned around and sold those cars to himself, to someone else to make a profit. And when the dealership would have inevitably start looking for the payments on these vehicles, they only had fake names and fake phone numbers. Shit. So they couldn't find whoever bought it.

How do you even think of that? Yeah. And the scam worked for a few months, but then he was caught in November, 1934 and he was sentenced to 15 months in jail for forgery and fraud. Yeah. Now, not long before he went to jail for that,

John and Beatrice had learned that she was pregnant. Oh no. The forgery and fraud charge, along with the prison sentence, had apparently changed Beatrice's opinion of her new husband. And not long after he started serving his sentence, she decided they should be separated. Oh, that's really sad.

The shame of this whole arrest business very deeply affected Beatrice. And she actually ultimately decided to put the baby Pauline up for adoption as well. Oh, wow. She told her family she quote, did not want to bring her up as the daughter of a jailbird. Oh, you could bring her up differently. Yeah. Like you could take care of me. You're my daughter.

Yeah. I'm bringing you up as my kid. But John was released from prison after serving little more than a year of his sentence. And then he moved back in with his parents and his parents lent him money to start a dry cleaning company. But the company fell apart after his business partner was killed in a car accident. And John was forced to close the whole thing. That's sad.

Now Hayes jail time and his tendency to not be able to keep jobs didn't really seem to have much of an effect on his reputation, surprisingly. And he kept making contacts in the business world. Like he was able to charm. He must be very adept at being charming because those are the kind of guys where you go, how did no one fucking catch on? But then you're like, he's got that thing. Like he just did.

He's a Leo man. There you go. One Leeds area lawyer told a reporter after Hay was arrested, I could not help liking him because of his charm. He seemed to be a harmless type with an amazing imagination. His manner of speech was almost entrancing, but a person of ordinary intelligence soon realized that beneath his charm and personality, he was a shallow individual. Yikes.

But like on the surface, people are saying like, he was almost entrancing, which is like shocking. Like, it's like, it's shocking. But then you think he probably grew up watching like a priest or whoever led the services speak and studied that behavior. And their whole thing is they have to be, you know, that you have to keep an attention of a large group of people.

Yeah. And also he just had nothing but time, right? Nothing but time to work these things out and to, you know, now no longer bound to leads by, you know, a job, a wife, anything. He spent nearly two years just drifting around Northern England and Scotland, going through several scams, like several little fraud things and just getting money along the way. And during this time, he would pose as a solicitor calling himself William Adamson. And as this alias, he would offer to handle business transactions for wealthy clients.

But when the time came to actually hand over the money, he would just disappear with their investments. Oh, that's so fucked up. Yeah. And this brief period of transience eventually led him to London. And there in 1936, he found work as a chauffeur to a man named William McSwann, who was the owner of several successful amusement parks in Arcades. Oh, that's cool. So a very wealthy man.

Now John spent several months working for the McSwan family and became very close friends with their son, Donald's McSwan. Then he left the job and returned to his criminal ways because like, why have a job? Ew. You know? And John once again tried the solicitor fraud scheme, this time in Surrey, but he was quickly arrested for defrauding someone of 3000 pounds, which is about $50,000 American in 2024.

In November, 1937, he was sentenced to four years in prison for fraud. So John was released from prison in August, 1940, just before the German army started their blitz campaign in England during World War II. And quickly he found work as a fire warden in Victoria, London. A few, which is like, to me, that seems like what a jump, like you're just like come out of prison and you're like fire warden. That seems like an important job. I don't know. Like how did that happen? But a few months later in February, 1941, Hay, along with many other young men in the country registered for military service.

At the height of the war, it's likely John would have been sent to fight at this time. It's interesting to think of what would have happened if he did. But in June, 1941, just six months after he left prison, he was arrested for stealing household goods. He was still on parole from his earlier conviction. So he was sent back to Lincoln prison to serve the remaining 21 months of his sentence. So he failed to attend the scheduled medical review for military service in 1943 and he avoided serving in the military. Wow. It is crazy to think like what could have happened. So many people could still, you know, could have lived.

Yeah. Now, once again, he seems to have ignored any moral or religious training that he had growing up, just in favor of quick, easy money. Yeah. Like he doesn't seem to be looking back on any kind of lessons that he learned, good, bad, or otherwise. And he's just going his own way at this point. He told several prisoners at one point, if you're going to go wrong, go wrong in a big

way. Like me, go after women, rich, old women who like a bit of flattery. That's your market if you're after big money. I'm like, how did you learn that? Like, I'm just fascinated by how he came to learn all of this. I am very fascinated by that. But as he had done so many other times in his life, he charmed the prisoners, he charmed the guards in prison, and eventually he got an easy job in the prison's tinsmith shop.

And that's where he learned to work with acid and other chemicals for the first time. The fuck were they given prisoners acid to work with for? Yes, some sayin'. Here, just use this. And during this time, he managed to convince the inmates working in the field to bring, and this is like a trigger warning for animal cruelty, to bring him any field mice that they captured.

Field mice are the cutest things you have ever seen in your life. They are so cute. And he would kill those field mice, and then he would dissolve them in sulfuric acid that was kept in the shop. And people are just like, yeah, sounds good. Yeah, they were just like, sure, I'll bring you some. Like, what?

Who the fuck was out there collecting field mice for this dude? And what was he saying was his reason for this? Like, was he being like, I just want to dissolve them in acid and they were like, sure. I wonder if he said that he was like experimenting for this. Like was he being like, I just want to dissolve them in acid. And they were like, sure. I wonder if he said that he was like experimenting or something. Yeah, it's truly bonkers. According to Neil Root, who wrote Frenzy, the first great tabloid murders, New York, who will will link the source in the show notes. He said he found

that within 10 minutes, the acid darkened and the temperature rose to 100 degrees Celsius. After 30 minutes, only black sludge remained of the mice. That's important for later. I don't want to know that. So John was released from Lincoln prison in mid September, 1943, and he moved back in with his parents for a brief period of time. Oh, how lucky for them. Yeah, and then he ended up renting a small room in London. And while he was there, he got another job, like actual job. He got a job as a bookkeeper for Hearst Leah Products.

If he had any plans for starting up another fraud scheme at this point, I'm sure he did. They were derailed pretty early in 1944 because he was in a car accident himself. Oh shit He did receive a bad cut to his head the accident itself was minor But this event would go on to play an important role in Hayes criminal evolution At least he would claim like that it did that he got like a head injury, huh? But it wasn't that bad. Okay. Yeah, so it was just convenient

He used a lot of things later. Now in the summer of 1944, while drinking at the Goat on High Street, a bar in Kensington. Yeah, the Goat. Hay ran into the son of his old employer, one Donald McSwan. Oh yes.

So the meeting was like a total chance occurrence, like nobody planned this. But the two had spent many nights drinking their years earlier when Hay was employed by the McSwans. So Neil Root, who I just mentioned, suggests that Hay had maybe been staking out the location in order to run into him again, but it does seem like it could go either way. We can't really prove that he was because it's very likely he could have run into him at this place.

But either way, weird. Who knows? Now at the time, John Hay was jobless, and honestly was on the brink of being homeless at the time. So it would have made sense for him to look up his former boss to maybe ask for his job back. Right. But why he would need to do so in secret

is the thing that's a little unclear. Like, why wouldn't you just go and ask him? Unless he pissed somebody off there. Yeah, you never know. But whatever it was, he did manage to run into Donald McSwan and he seemed happy to see him and they seemed happy to see each other after so many years. It was a good meeting. All right.

And Donald McSwan, despite his family's vast wealth and privilege, he didn't really have a lot of close friends or relationships. I think he was a little isolated, not intentionally or anything. But according to author Gordon Lowe, the only people who appeared to have any real interest in him were his parents. I mean, it makes sense, but it's sad. So Donald McSwan quickly found work for Hay, collecting rents from the renters of the McSwan's many properties around the place.

And the two men rekindled their friendship. So he helped John get work, like right away. It was like, Oh, I'll help you out. So they spent a few months in a pretty close new rekindled friendship, which is nice. And during that time, Hay got to enjoy the benefits of having a very wealthy friend. And this wealthy friend never hesitated to spend his money on those closest to him. Like Donald McSwann would treat his friends like he used his money for good.

I'm very nervous for Donald McSwann. Then in early September, 1944, Donald McSwann disappeared without a trace. Why do you have to tell me these things? His parents were very surprised. He had some close relationships with the men that he casually socialized with in bars around Kensington, who were also very surprised that he was just nowhere to be found. In mid September, like I said, he didn't have a lot of close friends, but he did have acquaintances. In mid September, John Hay contacted Donald's parents, Amy and Donald senior, and he told

them their son had quote, gone up to Scotland to disappear. And he implied that he had done so to avoid the military draft. So since their son had a recent history of draft dodging and no real interest in joining the military and had repeatedly expressed this disinterest to them, they readily accepted this explanation without question. And it was probably easier to accept than anything else. Yeah, of course. But the truth was something pretty unimaginable. In his confession given to police later following his arrest,

John Hay claimed that one night in early September, after Donald and he had been drinking for several hours, they returned to the workshop that John Hay had been renting, and he, quote, experienced a sudden need for blood. What? So he struck Donald McSwan over the head with a piano leg and then slit his throat. His friend who had been so good to him, taking care of him and giving him a job. John then left Donald's body in the workshop overnight and returned the following day.

And then he put his body into a 40 gallon metal drum and poured sulfuric acid over it until he was fully submerged. Two days later, he said that the body had been reduced to a foul smelling blackish porridge streaked with blood. He said he was then able to dump that blackish porridge streak with blood into a nearby manhole drain. And he was gone. Just to think that he could do that to somebody he had known for so many years and bonded with like just make them completely disappear. Yep. Because you wanted to you just needed you quote unquote needed to. Yeah. What the fuck? Yeah. And now

that Donald is dead murdered and his disappearance is explained away to his parents right now, Hay then continued writing several letters to Donald's parents posing as him. Oh, that's sick. Yep. In the letters where, and he posted them from Scotland to keep up the whole ruse that he was in Scotland, he explained that he wanted to transfer his properties to his friend, John Hay.

Stop it. And he wanted John Hay to look after them until he could return to England. Wow. With no reason to doubt this because he was a good friend. Donald's parents didn't object to this. This is like salt burn. It really is.

It truly is actually. Yes. Now in the summer of the following year, the war had started to wind down and was kind of coming to an end. And the McSwans assumed their son would be coming back from Scotland because he wouldn't be worried about the draft anymore. But fearing that his murder might finally be discovered, John called the McSwans and told them that Donald was finally coming home

and wanted to get together with them as soon as he arrived. And in a letter sent from Scotland, he posed as Donald, their son, and arranged to have Donald Sr. and Amy, Donald's parents, come to his basement workshop on Gloucester Street on July 2nd, and they were so excited to see their son again. Of course they were. So they were like, of course we'll meet you.

Yeah. On the night of the 2nd, they arrived at the workshop and they were met by John Hay. And he said, of course, Donald's inside. But he said, you should come inside separately, not at the same time, because we don't want to arouse any suspicions, because, you know, like, Donald's still technically on the lam here. He's a draft dodger. So like, we don't want to make anybody think that you're coming to see them.

And it's not going to be suspicious if one of us just hangs out outside. Yeah, no, no, no. This made sense to them at the time. And again, they have no reason to not trust John Hay, who is a friend and a previous employee. So Hay led Donald senior inside and down into the basement workshop. And after they went into the basement, John Hay closed the door behind them. And before anything else happened, Hay struck him on the back of the head with an iron bar and killed him instantly. Holy shit. He then hid his body somewhere out of view.

Oh my God. And then escorted Amy McSwan into the same basement and did the exact same thing to her. Oh, that's so sad. Both of them were dead within minutes. Yeah. Now with them both dead, he stripped them of all their valuables, any objects that he thought either he could sell, he could keep, or objects that he believed would survive dissolving in the acid. What the fuck?

And he kept them all. And then he dissected their bodies, cut them into pieces, piled them into large steel, a large steel bathtub together that he had placed in the corner of this basement. a large steel bathtub together that he had placed in the corner of this basement. And over the next three days, the remains of the mixed swans were left to dissolve in a solution of sulfuric and hydrochloric acid. Holy shit. And once they were completely dissolved, he dumped their remains down the drain in the center of the same floor in the basement. Oh my God.

Yeah. All just for my God. Yeah. All just for some properties. Yep. For money. Now during a later interrogation, detectives asked John Hay, if the McSwans had like easily and readily accepted your story about their son's disappearance, why would you kill them? Like they weren't even asking you. Yeah. Like they weren't suspecting you.

They just thought he was alive and in Scotland. Like they accepted what you said. And now it was like, you could have just got away with that. And they would have thought he just ran to Scotland and they couldn't get a hold of him again. Yeah. And he said, for the same reason I got rid of Mac, which he was referring to Donald Jr. That's a nickname. Okay. He said I needed the money and they had a few properties between them. So you just wanted more property and more money.

She struck him with her motor vehicle. She had been under the influence that she left him there. In January, 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lovers quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask. Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act.

And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia. Or a corrupt police cover-up. If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover-up to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion. He believed the defense theory, however, this was all a coverup to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion.

And after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision. To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and Crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen. You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery+. Join Wondery+, in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts,

or Spotify. I'm Dan Tbersky. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's's like I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls. With a

diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well you were holding something back. And tension eye. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah. No, it's hysteria. It's all in your head. It's not physical. You're, oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here. Something's not right.

Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical. Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

["Wonderful Music"] Okay. And yes, in the days that followed, he forged a power of attorney document. The fuck? Giving himself full control of all the McSwann's assets. And then he sold them all. Whoa.

And he sold all their belongings, all their valuables. And he also left a note for the couple's landlordy. Landlordy? Why do I say that every time? It always happens. Every time. It's actually very funny. I think it's that every time? It always happens. Every time. It's actually very funny. I think it's better.

I mean, it is. Landlordy. No, the couple's landlady and let her know that they had quote, gone away to America and didn't know when they'd be back. All right. Yep. Now, Amy and Donald McSwan also had very few close friends and no close relations around. And I'm sure he knew that. Yeah, of course. He admits that later.

So no one really noticed when they disappeared. And honestly, they left a note saying that they went to America. So everyone was just like, okay. Yeah, if you're not super close with people. The profits from the sale of the family's properties and valuables let John Hay quit his job. I mean, yeah. from the sale of the family's properties and valuables, let John Hay quit his job. I mean, yeah, I know.

He got to quit his job and it really funded a very increasingly lavish lifestyle over the next two years. And he was not gonna be willing to give up, I'm sure. Nope. And this included taking a room at the Onslow Court Hotel, which was like expensive. Big deal.

Now, despite this big sum of money from the McSwan estate that he literally just stole after he murdered them all, the entire family, John Hay continued to experiment with different scams and fraud schemes during this whole period, including one where he posed as a fake patent liaison officer and even opened up an office in Kensington under this fake whole thing. But none of his fraud schemes really like, they give him some money, but they weren't lucrative enough to keep up the lifestyle that he was becoming used to.

And by 1947, he found himself pretty desperately in need of money again to keep it going. And he had absolutely no intention of earning it the right way. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. So in the fall of 1947, he came across a property listing for a property in Ladbroke Square. And he was like, you know what, I want to buy that. So he couldn't come up with the money at the time, but like, whatever. Yeah, money's money. Yeah, who needs that?

But he kept in touch with the owners, Dr. Archibald Archie Henderson and his wife Rose. Oh, Archibald and Rose. Archibald Archie Henderson and his wife Rose. Oh, Archibald and Rose. Archibald and Rose. At the time, John Hay did still have some money left from the McSwann estate. So he wasn't like super desperate at this time. He just knew it was going to come to a point where he would be desperate. Yeah. But, and he just, he was like, I don't want to get to that point.

So I'm going to try to come up with a scheme this time. Right. So he kept, he built a very close relationship with the wealthy Henderson's, Rose and Archibald, and he kept it going, kept it going. Shortly after meeting though, Rose wrote a letter to her brother and in it she said, of the scores of stupid people I've met, I've just been introduced to the stupidest of them all. I offered him 22 Ladbroke Square lock, stock and barrel for 8,750 pounds.

And he said, that's too cheap. But if you'll accept 10,500, it's a deal. Like he wanted, he was like, I'll pay more. Meanwhile, he didn't have that. What the fuck? And in the response to that, her brother wrote, and this is chilling, because her brother wrote when you meet a man who talks like that, you should run for your life. Yeah.

Oh, God. Yeah. Now, like Donald McSwan Jr., the Henderson's were very generous with people they cared about. They didn't hoard their wealth with their friends. They're very generous hosts, happy to spend money on anybody, including their newest kind of acquaintance, John Hay. And like, hey, Archie Henderson liked to drink and gamble on the horses.

So they got along together. They had fun. Yeah. And so John Hay spent several months getting super close to this couple, gambling, betting on the horses with Archie, like spending time with him. Knowing the whole time what he's gonna do. And by February, 1948, none of his other schemes

had managed to bring in enough money like he was hoping. So he was now behind on his rent and he was desperate. Oh no. So after moving from his tiny room after the McSwan murders, John Hay had also moved his workshop and its contents to a new space in nearby Crawley. In mid February, he told Archie that he had some samples of a new product he wanted to show him and thought maybe it would be a good investment venture for Archie.

And Archie loved an investment venture. So he was eager to hear about this. And Archie agreed to go with John Hay to his workshop. He was like, hell yeah. And he brought with him several hundred dollars in cash. Oh, go there. Given how accustomed he was to the finer things in life, one would assume the messy and unkempt state of this workshop

and the surrounding land might have triggered something of a little bit of a confusion for Henderson, but he was just too excited about investment investment opportunity and he was like, whatever. Yeah. He just bought it. It's fine. Don't worry about it. Like this is not a big deal. Once inside, John Hay didn't waste any time. From his pocket, he pulled out a revolver that he had stolen from the Henderson house.

Stop. A few days earlier, and he shot Archie in the back of the head before the door had even closed behind him, his own revolver. With Archie now dead, he stripped him of all the valuables on his body and anything that he thought wouldn't dissolve in acid and things he could sell. And he loaded his body into one of the drums of acid that had arrived at the workshop a few days earlier. So he had planned this all out. Now, before this, this whole method of disposing of his victims had been very crude and very sloppy and very like chaotic. But this time he had prepared. He had ordered the barrel ahead of time. He had gotten the proper safety attire. So while he's doing this, he's wearing an army issue gas mask to protect himself from

the noxious fumes. But how fucking terrifying is that visual? Very. Of him loading this man's body into an acid bath while wearing an army issue gas mask. Sounds like a horror film. It really does. It like makes me think of like like Repo, the genetic opera. But once Archie Henderson's body was fully submerged in the acid, he sealed the lid and

removed everything that he was wearing. And then he padlocked to the workshop and just left, returned to town. So John went back to the Henderson's residence where Rose was waiting for her husband. Panicking, I'm sure. And he said, Rose, I'm so sorry Archie had a heart attack. Okay. And it's not looking good for him. And she said, he literally said, you're not to worry dear, but I think it's best you come

now. And so she was very concerned and she trusted this man. So she agreed and left and they went to the workshop. They got there very quickly. And once they were in the workshop, John Hay pulled the gun out and shot her in the back of the head as well and disposed of her remains the exact same way that he disposed of her husband. Oh, yeah.

I wasn't expecting that. Yep. When detectives asked, asked if they would find any evidence of the Hendersons when they searched the workshop, John Hay said, just a bit of sludge. Oh, and possibly a left foot. I had a bit of trouble with him. That's so fucking gross and crude and dark. So dark, like beyond dark.

Sinister. And these are people who he had spent months cozying up to and spending time with and like having leisure time with and getting to know and. That's wild. Yeah. It was during that same interview that John Hay continued to push this whole like vampire killer mythos that he did where he said like, I needed blood.

Oh God. And he told the detectives, I should have added that I took a glass of blood from each of them as I did with each of the McSwans. Doubt it. Nobody knows if he really did that or if he was just pushing the insanity, what the press started doing once they found out that he had said he needed, he had like a lust for blood. It also makes him sound insane. Exactly.

But like the McSwans, the Henderson's were, like we said, very wealthy and had very little close relatives and close friends. And after putting Rose Henderson's body in the acid barrel, John Hay returned to the hotel Metropole where the three of them had been staying and paid the bill for all three of them using money he'd received from pawning roses, jewelry right away. Wow.

And cash that he had taken from Archie's body before putting him into the barrel. Once those things were all covered, because he took care of all the immediate stuff, he started working on, you know, the longer thing. He forged a power of attorney. You got to transferring their assets all over to him. And then he quickly sold all of them. He also wrote a few letters explaining their disappearances and he sent those from various posts up and down the British coast. This guy is fucked.

He posed as he would pose as either Archie or Rose in these letters. And he explained that the couple had decided to do some traveling. They were going as far as South Africa and they were gonna be gone for several months. And in fact, that summer, John Hay used the money that he got from killing them to take a trip to Vienna and South Africa himself. What the fuck?

Yep, and while he was there, he made sure to send some postcards to Rose's brother to keep up the whole thing. He sent them as Rose. And he, like, he must figure out how to make his handwriting at least look similar to these people. Yep. And somebody mentions it later. One of, I believe Rose's friend, it's either Rose or the next woman. They say that when they got the handwriting, it looked similar, but it was bigger and it did strike them as a little off, but they didn't, it wasn't off

enough for them. So he studies their handwriting, which is wild. So the money from the Henderson murders kept John Hay going for another two years. Two years? He didn't have to work. By the end of 1948, he found himself running a little low because he was, it's not like he was using that money wisely. But he immediately started thinking about his next victim

because now it works. That being the case, it was definitely in his best, in his benefit that Oslo Court Hotel where he was staying had a ton of older wealthy people that were residents there. And they loved him. Of course, because he's a charmer. He's younger relatively to them. He's charismatic, you know, like he's got it all. They love him and he's sucking up to them. He's good at it. In fact, by the end of 1948, John Hay had already been spending considerable time

with 69 year old widow, Olive Durand Deacon. No. She was a woman with tons of money. I mean, she had more money than all of his victims combined. Oh God. So Olive had been married for many years to a military Colonel,

but he died unexpectedly in 1938. And she was a widow much earlier than she'd expected to be. And she was struggling with his loss. I'm sure. Like she was genuinely grieving him and she had massive wealth, mostly from like stock holdings. So she's lonely and wealthy. Yeah, she's very wealthy. She would be financially secure for the rest of her life. Like she didn't have to worry about anything, but she was grieving. So after moving into the onslaught in 1943,

she mostly just spent her days like socializing with the other residents, like just trying to like live her life, like get past the loss of her husband. And recently, Olive had started spending her lunches with John Hay. No. She thought he was well-mannered, very courteous, and she described him at one point as having a glint

in his eye that makes him interesting. By February, 1949, John Hay had once again found himself right at that desperation's door. He had made a lot of money from murdering the Hendersons, but he had also developed a very serious gambling habit in the years since that. Okay. And unfortunately for him, he would lose a lot more than he would win. He was a bad gambler as well.

And also his bank account had been overdrawn for several days at this point and he had fallen behind in rent. So there we are. Oh. On the afternoon of February 14th, yes, Valentine's day, Hay found Olive and a friend eating lunch in the Onslow's dining room and walked up to them.

A few days earlier, they had actually, him and Olive had been discussing an idea that Olive had, that Olive had come up with for artificial fingernails. Oh shit. She had come up with this idea and she had brought him a prototype. Wow. She was like... Oh, because also she probably thinks he could get her a patent.

Yeah. Exactly. And she's sitting here thinking, you know what? I know I'm super wealthy, but I'm going to keep thinking of ways to just get through this grieving process. And if using my brain does that, then why not? And she's 69 and just like coming up with adventures. Coming up with prototypes. That's amazing.

And she gave him the prototype in a small tin box. And this was exactly the opportunity he needed to lure her to the workshop that he had rented. So he wasted no time. He told her he could be of great value in this new venture and they made a plan to get together at the end of the week. Later after his arrest, he told police she was inveigled into going to Crowley by me in view of her interest in artificial fingernails.

It's like tempted. And that's like, inveigled is a very interesting word for like being led. Yeah, like deceived. Now on the morning of February 18th, John drove with Olive to his workshop in Crawley. And as always, Olive was very impeccably and probably overdressed for the occasion.

Good for her. She was wearing a Persian lamb coat and loaded with diamond and gold jewelry. Queen. And along the way, they talked about Olive's business idea, and John Hay told her he had actually developed a special kind of paper that he thinks could be used in this whole process and the development. So they're like buddies here.

Once they got to the workshop, he led Olive inside. And this time, though, he didn't just immediately kill her. Instead, he pulled two pieces of red paper from his briefcase and put them in front of Olive and kept the ruse going, like this is the paper, take a look at it, see if this is the kind of thing you're looking for. So she bent down to get a closer look at the paper and he reached into a hat box that he brought from the car, pulled out the revolver that he'd stolen and used on the Hendersons. And just as Olive was about to turn around and say something, he raised the gun to the

back of her head and pulled the trigger. And she died instantly. So Olive has now been murdered and John Hay started his routine of removing every valuable piece that is on her and that was a lot. Once he'd removed it all, he decided he didn't actually, he was so excited that, yeah, so excited that he just couldn't wait to find out what the total would be when he pond all this stuff.

So he left Olive's body in the workshop and then took everything to the pond shop in Crawley and sold all the jewelry in the coat while her body still lay in his workshop. How fucked is this, dude? Wasted no time. My God. And I'm assuming these are like, some of these things are like one of a kind pieces.

Oh, I'm sure. So it's like. So he's getting shit tons of money too. And I'm just like waiting for the pawn person to be like, why do you keep coming in here? Where'd you get this? Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

They don't ask questions, just here's the money. So he's got a ton of cash now and he goes back to the workshop and he puts Olive's body into a 40 gallon barrel he'd purchased a few days earlier. And he covered her body with sulfuric and hydrochloric acid mixture and then sealed the barrel and headed back to London.

Now in the past, John Hay, like you had mentioned, he had chosen victims with very few social connections or people that wouldn't like, you could make up a good story to say where they had gone. Yeah. Any questions that remained for those people of like where they were, even if time had gone by or the ruse had gone like, you know, fiddled on,

he would still be able to avoid any of those questions or dismiss them for like a you know, fiddled on, he would still be able to avoid any of those questions or dismiss them for like a long time, especially with some well-timed and well-placed forged letters to distant family members. This time though, he was too desperate and he acted too impulsively. Because it was true that Olive was a widow and had no children,

but she had lived for years at Onslo. She had made several close friends and one of those close friends. Wondering where she is. Exactly. And one of those very close friends was Constance Lane. Another great name. Yeah. Wow. Constance Lane. That sounds like a great summer be tree. It does actually. Or a good pen name.

Oh my God. Yes. Now on Saturday, February 19th, Constance was eating breakfast at the onslaught and she was like, why hasn't Olive come down for breakfast? Olive was very routine. She was very predictable. She liked to be on her schedule. So this was very out of character.

And as far as Constance knew her friend hadn't been planning to go away on any trip. She would have let her know. Yeah. So she could only assume that Olive was sick. So she was worried. So after finishing her breakfast, she went up to Olive's room and found a chamber made to open the door, but she found that no one was inside and that it also looked like no one had slept in the room the previous night.

So Constance waited another day to see if Olive would show up, but she didn't show up. And on the 20th, she reported her missing. And all her things are just still in this room. Exactly. Now under normal circumstances here, the disappearance of an adult without any signs of foul play would probably be low priority,

but Olive was a very wealthy woman. Yeah. And Constance was a very wealthy woman. So she's getting the double time here. So police went to the onslaught immediately and started questioning the residents. But it seems that none of the residents had a lot of information on where Olive could be. But the hotel's manager mentioned to officer Sergeant Lamborn that one of their other residents,

John Hay, had been late with his rent recently. And that was unusual. And Lam-Born had encountered John Hay during this whole thing at one point and actually immediately disliked him, which was not the normal reaction to John Hay. Somebody had an intuition. Exactly. Later, she would tell a reporter, she quote, and maybe because she's a lady detective, she said she instantly distrusted the smug and spivvy hay.

And love it. Yeah. She was like, I don't like him right from the jump. And this new information only made her more suspicious of him. Like, oh, okay. So he's late on his rent? Yeah. So while police started, kept quietly investigating Olive's disappearance, a few days after her murder, the story actually made it to the London newspapers. Oh, wow.

One article said, last night, an official at Scotland Yard state that the police had been unable to trace a single person who had seen Mrs. Durand Deacon since she left the hotel. The paper also noted that Olive rarely left the hotel at all. But on this occasion, she quote, was going with Mr. Hay to visit a factory in Crawley. ["The New York Times"] Scammers are best known for living the high life

until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught. I'm Saatchi Cole. And I'm Sarah Haggye. And we're the host of Scamfluencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once a facade falls away. We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit filed by Larry King, and no real product to push. He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs. To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Giudice,

what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame. Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad-free right now on Wondry+. While it was true that Detective the Scotland Yard hadn't zeroed in on any suspect, thanks to Sergeant Lamborn, our girl there, they had now been informed of the officer's suspicions about Hay. So they had started investigating him and they paid him a visit at the onslaught. Oh, let's go.

So for Sergeant Lamborn and the detectives at Scotland Yard, a theory had started to develop within a few days of the missing report. In that time, they learned that Hay had an extensive criminal history and a prison record. And the fact that Olive had last been seen in his company before she disappeared is a pretty big deal. And then they learned that he had been late with his rent several times recently, but that that wasn't the norm before this.

And then suddenly he had paid all his back rent with one large check. Huh, imagine that. So when they first interviewed John Hay at the hotel, he explained that he had gone with all of that day, but he had dropped her off in town, and then they'd planned to meet a few hours later in front of the Army Navy store,

but she just never showed up. Okay. So after uncovering this lengthy criminal record of his, detectives returned to John Hay, but he just repeated the same story about her not showing up and that he was so concerned when she didn't show up. And in fact, after he was arrested, detectives would comment about how unusually eager

he seemed to locate her. And that only made them more suspicious of him. They were like, you're overacting it. This is bizarre, sir. This isn't genuine. Despite his story, investigators traced Hay to the rented workshop in Crawley and they forced their way inside.

And there they discovered a bizarre setup of barrels and chemicals. But it would be some time after that that they would learn what the purpose of these were. They just thought it was weird. Among the belongings at the shop, they also discovered a revolver, the same one he had used to kill the Henderson's and Olive.

And most importantly, they discovered a receipt from cottage cleaners for one Persian lamb coat. He had it cleaned before he pawned it. Based on the evidence collected at the workshop, police arrested John Hay on February 28th, 1949 and charged him with the murder of Olive Durand-Deacon. By that time, they had the receipt for the coat. They had a bunch of other compelling evidence, including the receipts from the pawn shop where John Hay had sold his victim's belongings. But when they asked Hay about

the items found in the workshop and all the other evidence against him, he was like, I don't know. I don't know anything. I feel like you, dude. Luckily, that didn't last long. Little by little they were able to pull it all out of him. At first he claimed to be a victim of blackmail and he said he hadn't said anything about that because quote, he knew other people would be dragged into the investigation. Sure. But that story just fell the fuck apart because he was unable to come with literally any details

about that. Yeah. Like he said that, hoped it would fly. And then they were like, give me one more piece of information about that. And he's like, don't have it. Like, I don't know. I don't have it. I didn't mean it. So then seemingly aware that he had been caught in a lie, he turned to one of the detectives and said, tell me frankly,

what are the chances of anyone being released from Broadmoor? Which is an institution. Yes. So he was like, could I potentially be released out of there if I got put there? Like he just asks. Just out of the blue. Just want to know.

Before he says anything else. Totally unrelated question. Hey, I was thinking the other day. Hypothetically, would anybody be released there? So recognizing that he was trapped, he seemingly gave up the charade and started confessing while laying the groundwork for an insanity defense. Of course. When asked directly about what happened to Olive, he said, I've destroyed her with acid.

You'll find the sludge that remains at Leopold Road. Every trace has gone. How can you prove murder if there's no body? Oh, that's so sad. I've destroyed her with acid, is what he said. And just when you really think about what he did with all these people, there's no part of them. There's nothing left of them.

And he poured them down sewer drains. That's so sad. Gnarly. So sad, it's so dark. It's unthinkable. Yeah. John Hay had spent most of his life, like he's very much a narcissist and he spent most of his life with a belief that he was the most intelligent in the room at any given

time. And he demonstrated that in every single con job he pulled off, every single fraud he pulled off and with the murders of the McSwans, Hendersons and all of Durand Deacon. I mean, it was proved to him multiple times that he wasn't as smart as he thought because he got caught in almost every, actually all of the schemes that he did. Exactly. But he thought with these murders, he got away with the perfect crime because he figured out a way to get rid of the bodies. Yes. But like most narcissists, he overplayed his hand. He assumed that they'd never build a case against him because again, no bodies. What are you going to do? But John Hay became surprisingly eager to aid in the investigation because

again, he's very confident that he's going to get away with this. But also like many killers, he misunderstood the law. Great. He misunderstood corpus delecti, the provision of the law that stipulates there must be evidence in order to prove a crime has been committed. It doesn't require a body to prove a murder. It only requires evidence that the murder occurred.

In this case, there was shit tons of biological material that could be traced back to Olive and would conclusively confirm that she died in that workshop. Yep. Also, there was a growing number of circumstantial evidence that tied Hay to the murder, including receipts and eyewitness accounts.

Receipts, proof, screenshots, timelines. There you go, there's all of it. So in order to build an airtight case, investigators brought in Dr. Keith Sampson, which was one of Scotland Yard's most highly regarded pathologists. While examining one of the barrels in the workshop, he said he, quote, unearthed with a stick

from a mass of whitish material just inside the factory gates, a piece of red plastic material. Later, this material would be confirmed to be a piece of Olive's red leather handbag. Oh, that's so sad. Hay had thrown it into the barrel along with Olive's body, assuming it would be destroyed by acid. It did not. Eventually, investigators would haul away more than 475 pounds of material, two additional barrels, 28 pounds of fat, 18 pieces of bone, and one set of dentures that would be a match of those created for all of Duran Deacon.

Nicole Soule Wow, that's incredible. Nicole Soule Years later in his autobiography, Keith Sampson, the pathologist wrote, despite whatever John Hay might have thought, Hay's labors had been in vain. The remains of Mrs. Duran Deacon were identified as surely as if her body had never been in that acid bath. And I was like, wow. Hell yeah, they were. That was all of working from beyond with all the other victims. I totally believe it. And also Keith motherfucking Sampson, that pathologist did his motherfucking job. That's

incredible. He made sure every piece of biological material that they could trace back was found. He was like, oh, you think you're smart? You think you can fuck with me? Like he was like, I'm a pathologist. Get out of here. Like I love that. I love that he was like, you think you have bested me with this bullshit? You think you're the smartest guy in the room? You can't get rid of that. You can't get rid of all of it.

You idiot. So within days of his arrest, investigators had been working through Hay's belongings at the workshop and his room at the onslaught, and they started finding evidence of Hay's other murders. Oh no. Neither the Henderson's nor the McSwann's had been reported missing to the police. Right. But when detectives followed up on the latest leads, they learned that all five of them

had connections to John Hay, and none of them had been seen or heard from in a long time. Also friends and family members of the Henderson's started coming forward with the letters and postcards that they got. This was the one I was talking about before. Rose Henderson's friend Daisy Roundtree told a reporter she kept the correspondence because quote the handwriting is bigger than that in which Mrs. Henderson wrote. Boom. She thought it was unusual. As the evidence against him kept growing, John Hay finally confessed to the additional murders of the mixed ones and the Henderson's. And this set the stage for one of the most sensational trials England had seen in several years.

Oh, I bet. So it's clear from his confession that John Hay had intended to pursue an insanity defense once it went to trial. Yeah. He basically came out and said it. Yeah. And once that confession was leaked to the press, the case blew up in the media. And it was in large part because of the very macabre details that he would later elaborate on and use in aid of his defense.

Among other things, the admission that he had drained his victims of their blood, which he later drank, he said, led to his being labeled a vampire killer in the press. I don't believe it. I don't think I believe it. In order to build his own lore and mythology too, he added to that legend and claimed, quote, he had been drinking his own urine since he was a boy.

No. Which I was like, maybe he was. You're like, no. It should be noted though, that despite what was written about him in the papers and what he told reporters, there's a lot of skepticism when it comes to these claims. Like a lot of people don't believe this.

Yeah. It's never been proven. And in fact, during the trial, he was examined by several medical and mental health professionals and quote, all of them stated that Hay was probably malingering. In other words, the general consensus was that he was a consummate liar who twisted the truth

whenever it benefited him. And there was no reason to believe that this was any different than what he did his whole life. Now in the months following his arrest, investigators spent a ton of time and effort building their case against him. And Hay himself kept fueling the speculation of journalists with his like crazy outrageous claims

of insatiable blood lust. And in his private letters though, he was showing the real motives for his murders. In a letter to his friend, Barbara Stevens, he responded to her question about why he never tried to kill her by calling her foolish for asking and then ensuring her he could never harm her.

And it's like, which of course the Henderson's had also been Hayes friends very close to him and so had the McSwans and so had all of Durand Deacon. But the only difference here was those people were incredibly wealthy and Stevens had nothing more Durand Deacon. But the only difference here was, those people were incredibly wealthy, and Stevens had nothing more than friendship. Exactly. That's it. She had nothing. She couldn't give him anything.

Exactly. And there it is. That's the difference. Of course I would never hurt you. You can't offer me anything. You don't have anything. Now John Hayes' grand jury trial began April 1st, 1949, April Fool's Day.

During which the prosecution on behalf of the Crown, E.G. Roby, gave his opening statement. He said, could there be any doubt that on February 18th, John Hay killed Mrs. Duran Deacon with a revolver and disposed of her body and acid? And that was a rhetorical question that he asked the jury. But then ensured them that he would demonstrate his guilt was beyond reasonable doubt. Following these opening remarks, Roby began laying out the evidence against Hay and showing his connection to the missing widow and emphasize the whole financial part of this thing that she was incredibly wealthy.

He was going through vast financial troubles and was in dire straits motive. Yep. And was like, Oh, there's also this confession that he gave. So speaking on Hayes' behalf though, his attorney declined to enter a plea and instead requested that a speedy trial be held at the Old Bailey, which we've seen the Old Bailey a few times on this show.

He said, the view taken is that this is such an exceptional case that no objection would be raised if the magistrates committed for trial at the Old Bailey. And the magistrates didn't object to the request and the trial date was set for mid July at the Old Bailey. So the trial opened on Old Bailey. So Hayes' trial started on July 18th, 1949 at Old Bailey. So Hayes' trial started on July 18th, 1949 at Old Bailey. In his opening statement to the prosecution, or the prosecution, Sir Hartley Shawcross told the jury this was a clear case of carefully premeditated murder for gain.

Correct. And he explained that contrary to the sensational details reported in the press, John Hayes' crimes had been motivated purely by greed because he's a piece of shit. It has nothing to do with blood lust. No. So Hayes defense attorney, David Fry rejected the Crown's theory that Hay had killed purely because of financial gain. He said in a statement at the proper time, evidence will be led with the intention of

showing that the accused was insane. So as not to be responsible for his act, Spoiler alert, they will not show that. To support their claims, the defense brought in Dr. Henry Yellolese, a quote unquote mental specialist, quote unquote, examined Hay on at least five occasions. According to Dr. Henry here, for most of his life, John Hay had been having a recurring dream. He called this dream, the dream of the bleeding Christ. And in this dream, Hay could see the head and sometimes the body of Christ on the crossed, crossed, uncrossed, with blood pouring from his wounds. This, Dr. Henry Yeller-Lease argued, was the beginning of a paranoid delusion that it would

eventually lead Hay to develop a secret double life and thirst for blood. I think that's just a nightmare. It's like he grew up, we all have them, very stringently and strictly and isolatingly religious. He might have one of those dreams every once in a while. Exactly. But when asked directly about whether this particular delusion would render the accused completely incapable of recognizing that his actions, you know,

murder and dissolving bodies in action were acid, were illegal. He said, no. No, okay. Nope, he said, quote, he knew quite well that to kill a person was a crime. I would say, cool, cool, cool. Then what are you doing here?

And so the judge said, so he did. He knew quite well that to kill a person was a crime. And the doctor said, cool. Then what are you doing here? And so the judge said, so he did, he knew quite well that to kill a person was a crime. And the doctor said, yes, I think he used the phrase punishable by law. All right. So he was like, yeah, he actually told me he did. Then you can go now, sir. That he it was a, it was a crime punishable by law. Thank you for your time, I guess.

Thank you, Dr. Henry. So Hayes' defense of insanity depended largely on the rumors about his supposed vampirism that had been circulating all around the press. But they were aided by the fact that Hayes did in fact exhibit signs of mental illness or maybe a personality disorder that allowed him to kill without hesitation and seemingly for very petty reasons with not a lot of remorse. But as is often the case, mental illness or a personality disorder alone doesn't mean one is incapable of recognizing that this actor behavior is outside the bounds of the law Right. There's a difference in the case of John Hay forensic psychologist Katherine Rams land argued that Hayes defense was entirely

Fabricated and built on lies. She said while there were no real instruments available during Hay's time for the assessment of the lingering, he presents several classic signs. Among those, she lists that Hay had some exposure to mentally ill people and would have known how to fake certain symptoms. Okay. Watched them. It's exactly what you had said. Look at me.

When you said it, I was like, well, that's going to come back. And that the symptoms he did fake and the stories he told were also inconsistent. So they didn't even fit with each other. Right. The judge in this case was of similar opinion. And when none of the psychologists or psychiatrists would confirm that John Hay was insane at the time of Olive's murder, he rejected the insanity plea altogether. There it is.

In his jury instructions on July 20th, Justice Humphries told the jury they were not trying to question whether the man was sane or insane, only whether he had murdered Olive Duran Deacon. And as to that question, Humphries reminded the jury that John Hay had confessed to this crime several times. Exactly. The jury deliberated for less than 20 minutes. I believe that. Before finding John Hay guilty of Olive's murder.

Hell yeah. And Justice Humphrey sentenced John Hay to death. Let's go. When he was asked whether he had anything to say on his own behalf, quote, "'Hey, put his head slightly on one side, his hands clasped behind his back, smiled faintly and replied, none at all.

Oh, what a little bitch. And he did so in a clear rather high pitched voice. So he said, not at all. Weird. And everybody said, fuck off. I don't like it. In the days that followed, Hey would make a lot of use of that journalistic spotlight that he found himself under.

And he claimed to have killed an additional three people that they didn't even know about. No evidence of those murders was found, but it was in the 1940s at this point, who knows? On the morning of August 20th, 1949, a crowd of nearly 200 people assembled at the gate of Wandsworth prison to be present for John Hayes execution. Shortly after 9 a.m., John George Hay was executed by hanging. A few minutes later, a man walked to the gate of Wandsworth,

read the notice confirming the death and the crowd, which was now nearly 500 people. Damn. Cheered. Cheered. And that is the end of John George Hay, the acid bath murderer. That was a cuckoo story. Yeah. I was also known as the vampire murderer, although I think that's fake. I also think that's fake. I think the other title is more accurate. Yeah. But that was really sad that I didn't want any of those people to die. Yeah, the McSwans, the Hendersons, Olive, none of them.

The fact that he got close to these people, made friends with them, got to know them, formed a bond with them, and then did something so heinous and just violated their bodies afterwards in such a way and disregarded them like, like you would disregard, you know, bacon fat after cooking it. Oh God. It's unthinkable. Like it really is something. He's a fucked up individual and he's dead.

And there's that. There's that. So we hope you keep listening. We do. And we hope you. Cheap. It. Weird. But not so weird that you make friends

with people and then dissolve them in acid just to take their money because you could just get a job. Don't keep it that weird at all. Thanks. Thank you. So I'm sorry. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.