Morbid - Episode 618: Jerry Brudos: The Shoe Fetish Slayer (Part 2)

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

At first glance, there wasn’t much to the mild and unassuming Jerry Brudos; however, when investigators looked into his background, they discovered several arrests for theft, prowling, and sexual assault. And the more they learned about Brudos’ life, the more certain they became that he was the man they were looking for.Ultimately, Jerry Brudos was convicted of the murders of Jan Whitney, Karen Sprinker, and Linda Salee and given three life sentences. His capture and incarceration were a big relief to the women of Oregon, but his cooperation with law enforcement and the FBI would prove invaluable as the latter established what would eventually become the Behavioral Analysis Unit.ReferencesAssociated Press. 1969. "Fisherman's grim discovery started search for slayer." Albany Democrat-Herald, June 30: 21.—. 1969. "Coed provided first lead in murder case." Oregonian, June 4: 11.Capital Journal. 1969. "Salem student, 19, feared kidnaped." Capital Journal, March 29: 1.Carbonell, Dan De. 2006. "36 years later, killer's death relieves victims' families." Statesman Journal (Salem Oregon), March 29: 2.Leibman, Faith H. 1989. "Serial Murderers: Four Case Histories." Federal Probation 41-45.Long, James. 1969. "Photo found in Brudos' home shows girl hanging by rope." Oregon Daily Journal, June 7: 1.Morrison, Allen. 1969. "Brudos tells of attacks, killings." Oregon Statesman , June 28: 1.—. 1969. "Indicted in death of Miss Sprinkler." Statesman Journal (Salem, Oregon), June 5: 1.Olmos, Robert. 1969. "Crews widen river search for clues in girls murders." Oregonian , May 15: 19.Oregon Journal. 1968. "2 teen-age girls missing." Oregon Daily Journal, February 6: J7.Oregonian. 1968. "Help sought in search." Oregonian, December 23: 24.—. 1969. "Office aide disappears ." Oregonian, April 26: 14.Painter, John. 1969. "Sudden shift in plea signals end of trial." Oregonian , June 28: 1.—. 1969. "Tests stall state trial of Brudos." Oregonian, June 6: 1.Roby, Larry. 1969. "Parole agency explains eligibilty of Brudos." Capital Journal (Salem, Oregon), July 2: 15.—. 1969. "Judge discloses warrant details on Brudos." Capital Journal, June 6: 1.Rule, Ann. 1983. Lust Killer. New York, NY: Random House.Statesman Journal. 1969. "Brudos home alleged site of 2 slayings." Staesman Journal (Salem, Oregon), June 18: 1.Wong, James. 1969. "Somebody probably saw Linda Salee's killer--but will the person speak up?" Oregon Daily Journal , May 15: 5.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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From covert government experiments to bizarre assassination attempts, follow Redacted on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, weirdos. I'm Alaina. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. It sure is honey. It sure is honey. You know what else is morbid?

The freaking crick in my neck. That's pretty morbid. So morbid. Pretty morbid. Mobid. Mobid. It's pretty macabre. Macabre.

Indeed. Macabre. Indeed. Macabre, you say. So what's blowing your skirt up these days? What's blowing my skirt up? You know, it's a big real season. Real Housewives. There's so many Real Housewives on right now. Oh, I love that for you.

New York is on. Potomac is on. Doing pretty good many Real Housewives on right now. Oh, I love that for you. New York is on. Potomac is on. Doing pretty good. Steady Potomac season. There you go. SLC is popping the fuck off. Might I say that this might be my favorite season of SLC that's ever happened.

I love the new Housewife, Bronwyn. There you go. Yep. And then what other one is on right now? Why can't I think things? Oh, OC. OC just had a fucking banger of a season. And I think that the season finale might be this week. Wow. Really looking forward to the reunion. So Bravo heads. It's Real Housewives season. Yeah. Have at it. And let's just hope that New York gets better. What are you guys doing? I really, I couldn't. I tried. I wanted to. I am an OG New York cast girlie.

Oh, same. Once it flipped over, I was like... No, like those women raised me, essentially. They literally did. Those women raised me. For better or for worse, they raised me. Yeah, it's okay. I still, like literally I was watching the season with Jules the other day. Oh, I love the old season.

I'll watch them over and over. That's one of my favorite seasons. It's just chaos. Yeah. I really wanted to be, and I was, I was excited for the new, like, the new reboot of New York. And it was fine. Like, I was like, okay, season one. It wasn't like my favorite thing ever.

I hate change, so I couldn't even bother. Ben Mandelker, I have to pull it up really quickly because he had a tweet that explained exactly what... Ben and Ronnie for life. Yeah, Ben and Ronnie for life. If you're a Bravohead, we've mentioned them before, but just in case you're like just joining or something. If you're a Bravohead, go listen to Watch What Crappens with Ben and Ronnie.

Oh my God. They're fucking hilarious and they cover all the Brava shows. They're so funny. They're just lovely humans as well. Oh my God, and if you're looking for like, a campy, like just, I don't even know how to describe them. They're like indescribable because I love them so much.

And you got me into them, Laura and Carrie. Oh, sup. From Sup, sexy unique podcast. They cover OC and SLC and... They're just hilarious. Me and Drew listen to those recaps, cry laughing, like through genuine streams of tears. Oh, huge Laura and Carrie fan.

Forever and ever. But Ben, this sums up the difference between Real Housewives of Orange County and Real Housewives of New York, OK? So he tweeted, RHOC, you told everybody I pushed Travis down the stairs. Her daughter told Emily's kids that I mean, you did a background check on Ryan. The FBI is investigating. You talked about my bloody face photo. Are you going to put a hit out on me? And then Real Housewives of New York, I made a Pavlova. It's literally all that's happened. Wow. It's only been two

episodes so I'm hoping for more, but that's my Real Housewives recap for you guys. Damn. How are you? Well, shit. What's going on in your life? You gave a lot for it. That was good. That was good information. That was good recs. I'm always here to give the Bravo recs. Yeah, I love that. And our Bravo heads listening love that. Yeah. Hell yeah. Hi friends. We're well balanced here What's going on in your neck of the woods? Well, I just saw a really cool thing on tik-tok and I was really excited to share it because I think people listening will be like Holy shit cuz I was tell me everything. I guess Blumhouse is doing like this cool

It's a it's an insidious like live horror experience Oh and I think they're doing I'm bringing the thing up right now because I wanted to give you guys the right information because I was just, I kept following TikToks about it and I was like, can I, I want to do this. I love an immersive experience. Yeah, it's like a tour.

They're going in like over 80 cities in North America next year. Damn. Yeah, it looks cool. Like a haunted house kind of vibe. Yeah, I think it's just like this like immersive, like you're going to be like surrounded by insidious essentially. Oh, I'm obsessed with that.

It just looks too, the idea of it was just too cool, not to mention. Yeah, and bomb house, I feel like I love everything that they do. And I think there's tickets on sale now, I think, so I wanna go. I'll go with you. I'm looking at it, I'm like, I want tickets to this.

Coming to a city near you. And I'm looking right now. Is it in our city? Bitch, it's in our city. It's coming to Boston at the Colonial. Oh, shit. We got to get tickets. Well, we are getting tickets.

We're going. See you there. We're absolutely going. If you are not there, you are square. That's very true. You're not a weirdo. This is just me. I just found it.

I just wanted to tell you guys about it. So I like that. This is just me. I just found it. I just wanted to tell you guys about it. So I like that. This is just me. I just found that. I just wanted you to know. You talking about horror shit and me talking about Bravo. This is just us. This really is just us.

This is the dichotomy of our podcast. I figured, you know what? That was blowing my skirt up at the moment, that idea of that. So that's one of my favorite expressions ever. I got it from you. I've heard it before, but you used it recently and it tickled me. I used it on the car ride home the other night

because Drew loves to say that things didn't blow his skirt up. And it's so funny because Drew doesn't wear skirts. So it just makes me laugh. I like that. Well, you know what doesn't blow my skirt up? Jerry Brudos. He also does not blow my skirt up. But it's a fascinating true crime

case. It's a fascinating case. It's a horrific case and it's only going to get worse. And part two is really going to take it there. So I just need everybody to know that. I'm just really looking forward to him getting apprehended because I, that's my, always my favorite part of the story is when the police close in. And I don't know how that happens here. So, papa, sister. So when we last left you was when he had already kidnapped and murdered Linda Slauson and Jan Whitney. So he's already escalated to horrific acts and he's doing these, I mean, he's strangling, he's hanging them up by their neck. He's dressing them in other women's clothing that he has stolen

all around his career. He's taking lots of photographs. He's taken one of their feet and kept it and he dumps them in a river afterwards and weighs them down. Like he's a fucking brutal dude. He was going to try to make a paperweight out of one of their breasts. Yes. And that wasn't the last time he's going to do that. So. What? Yeah. Oh God.

So on the afternoon of March 27th, 1969, 19 year old Karen Sprinker left her home and she was on her way to the Meyer and Frank department store in Salem, Oregon. That day she had made plans to have lunch with her mom and to do some shopping for spring clothes because she was going to be going back to school and she wanted to have like additions to her wardrobe. She actually had big plans of a medical career as a doctor and she was brilliant. She was so smart. She had everything going for her. She graduated second highest in her high school class.

Like she was going places. Jerry Brudos had also gone out that afternoon just driving around doing his disgusting troll thing. He was looking for women, particularly near the Meyer and Frank department store. That's when he spotted a specific woman. This woman was not Karen. He said later that he couldn't take his eyes off of this woman. He said, quote, I had to have her.

He told detectives later. But by the time Jerry had parked his car in the, it was like a multi-tiered parking garage. By the time he had found a spot and parked his car, the woman had disappeared inside the store. So he missed his chance. We will not know who that woman is, but I'm like, somebody out there has no idea possibly that they were a second away. You have to wonder how often that happens.

That's the thing that like something just, you know, something gets in the way. Yeah, like some kind of intervention just gets in the way. Yeah. Yeah. So as Jerry was walking back to his car, he was walking back to his car, he was going back to his car to leave. Like he was gonna be like, he was like, I miss my chance, I'm leaving. But as he's walking back to his car, just by chance, he notices Karen Sprinker getting out of her car.

Oh no. And he later said, I didn't like her shoes, but she was a pretty girl with long dark hair. Now, Jerry and Karen were walking towards one another. She was headed to the inside to the department store and he was headed to the parking lot. And when she got to the front door of the department store, he suddenly grabbed her by the shoulder out of nowhere,

just walking by a dude and he just grabs you. And she's almost in the store. She's literally, so what it is, is there's like a stairway that goes from the parking lot garage to right to the front door. So it's like this stairway that is just like door at the bottom of the stair that goes right into the department store and then right here.

And she's right there. She was going down there and he was like, it was literally like seconds away from that door. And it's like, nobody saw anything. No, nobody saw anything. So he grabbed her by the shoulder and he shoved the barrel of a pistol into her ribs. And he told Karen to come with him quietly and he wouldn't shoot her. So she did exactly that because I can't

imagine being in that position. Well, and you honestly, I feel like you just have to comply when somebody has a gun to your anywhere on your body. My personal advice to you is never let someone take you to a second location. Yeah. Do whatever you can. Obviously do whatever. And that's what I mean. Like do whatever you can to stop that from happening, which also Karen also did try to stop that from happening.

She fought like hell. Yeah. So do that. Like don't let somebody take you to a second location that is far worse than something happening to you right there. So kick, scream, do whatever you gotta make, make the most noise you can possibly make if something like this happens. Literally the most noise, scratch at eyeballs,

do whatever you gotta do. Scream fire. Yeah, exactly. So, because it's that second location when they get you in a car, they're taking you somewhere else, that it's gonna be a lot harder. Well, and they have the upper hand in a second location.

Yeah. And now you're somewhere where you weren't initially going, so they can't track you. But what she didn't know and what she had no way of knowing was that the pistol he was using was a toy. Oh, no. But it looked like a real pistol. Of course. And you're not going to question that in the moment.

So when Karen failed to show up for lunch that afternoon, her mother became alarmed very quickly and she waited more than an hour at the restaurant. She searched around, she checked the parking lot and that's where she discovered Karen's car locked and abandoned. Karen's father Lucas reported her missing later that day and police opened an investigation pretty immediately because they were like, she wasn't running away. She was coming to meet me for lunch. Like her car is here. Something happened. The first lead came in quickly when a young woman matching Karen's description was actually

seen at the Southern Pacific railroad station with two men. It wasn't Karen, but matched her description. One of these people bought tickets to San Francisco for all three of them. And the ticket clerk remembered the three young people and told detectives, it didn't look like the girl was being forced to accompany them. She looked like she was willing to go there. But Karen's mother was like,

and they were really going with this lead. And Karen's mother was like, no, she wasn't running away. Like this isn't, no. And please everybody fucking believe her. She said to them, something happened to that girl from the time she parked her car on the ramp before she could get into the store. Wow. And he, she just knew she was like, she didn't make it into that car, into that store.

Right. Now, once Karen was taken back to Jerry Brudos' basement of horrors. He sexually assaulted her. Then he forced her to dress in the stolen underwear and shoes while he photographed her. He took a lot of photographs of Karen. He made her change several times. This was a very long drawn out, torturous process for her. The photos are heartbreaking because it's clear, I mean, it's just of her face, but because they've obviously cropped it.

But it's clear that she is just in complete shock and doesn't know how to get out of the situation. Like it's a horrifying photo, just because of her face. Not something I would wanna see. No, I don't recommend going to look for it, but it's just, it's awful what he did to these women because you can tell, like, how do you get out of that? You're in his basement.

I have no idea. What do you do? And it's like, you don't know if you comply, if I comply, maybe he's gonna let me leave. Like, you know that- Really, maybe he just wants this. Yeah, there's so many things that must be running through your head. When he was done photographing her against her will,

he looped a rope around Karen's neck and through the other end over the hoist in the basement ceiling, because he had created this whole loop and pulley system now where he the hoist in the basement ceiling, because he had created this whole, like, loop and pulley system now, where he could hoist someone up. He then hoisted her up just enough for her feet to not touch the ground. Literally so her toes were scraping the ground. And then he left her to strangle to death

while he went upstairs and watched cartoons and spent time with his family. So they were just upstairs while this was and spent time with his family. So they were just upstairs while this was going on? Mm-hmm. Okay. So he just went upstairs, spent time with his family, his kids, his wife, watched cartoons while there's a woman

strangling slowly to death in their basement. I don't know how you, I don't know how you... I don't know how the human brain can allow you to hurt somebody like that, and to, like, also hurt your family at the same time. Like, that's... That's fucking with your family too. Oh, yeah. Like, that's just...

And it's just, like, such conflicting pieces of your brain. Right. How are they turned on at the same time? I don't know about the pathways and Jerry Brutus' brain. Well later he returned to the basement to repeatedly violate Karen's body. Yeah. And she had died at that point.

Yeah, she had died. She strangled to death. By that point, he had developed a routine. So he spent the next few days photographing her body just like he had done and violating it in other ways. Because remember, he is a necrophiliac. And before disposing of Karen's body, he sliced off both of her breasts because he wanted to try to make the paperweights again. When the time came to get rid of her body, Jerry weighted her down with mechanical parts, like an engine from like an old car and stuff, and dumped her in the Long Tom River. I don't know what happened with the paperweights of it all.

I think it's better that we don't know. I didn't go too far into whether they worked or not, whether he was able to finally do it. For his sake, I hope no. Yeah, definitely not. So several months would pass before Karen's body was discovered in May. By then, she had been in the water way too long for the medical examiner to get much information about her remains.

Her cause of death was listed as death by traumatic asphyxiation. Wow. When you... So obviously, like, it becomes harder because, like, you got waterlogged. Will your teeth disintegrate faster in water too? No, no. Your teeth will pretty much hang out at the same time. Now, unlike the other bodies who were discovered without clothing,

Karen was actually fully clothed when she was found. So he redressed her, obviously. So yeah, but what was even weirder was the clothing didn't belong to her. And it clearly didn't belong to her. Is it his wife? The sizing of the undergarments, for example, were much larger than anything Karen owned or would reasonably be wearing. Okay.

Also, when the medical examiner removed the 38 D size bra, which was not her size, quote, sodden lumps of brown paper toweling dropped out, revealing that Jerry had cut off Karen. This is when they found out that he had cut off Karen's breasts. And then stuffed a bra to make her chest appear larger with paper towels. And all this clothing was clothing taken from other women. Okay. And some of it was like other women he had murdered. Yeah. He dressed her in.

This man. Yeah. Yeah. That's just... Yep. Awful. Now, less than a month passed before Jerry was back out on the prowl. Less than a month. Holy shit.

April 21st, Jerry attacked a 24-year-old woman, Sharon Wood, in a parking garage as she was leaving work. He walked right up behind her and put a pistol in her back, telling her that if she didn't scream he wouldn't shoot her. But she said, fuck that, and she fought real hard. Hell yeah. She basically was like, I was not. She was having a bad day. She basically was like, I was not, she was having a bad day. And she was like, I was in no mood to deal with this bullshit. So

he tried to choke her out. He put an arm around her and literally tried to put her in a sleeper hold and she just bit down super hard on his hand, like drew blood from his thumb. Like that's how hard. Amazing. And just screamed. She just kept on screaming. And luckily a car drove in as this was happening and she was able to get away because he ran. You guys, the holiday season is just around the corner. It's time to start getting your space ready. I packed up all my, you know, spooky season stuff the other day and I'm so ready to bring my holiday gear upstairs.

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How do you move on from that? How do you ever park your fucking car in a parking garage again? Or go in public. Or do anything, exactly. By yourself. Like I would never want to be alone again. No. I don't think I'm sure that happens a lot with survivors of like attacks like this.

Like they probably don't want to do anything by themselves. Absolutely. And luckily he got so he ran away. And then on the afternoon of April 22nd, the next day, very next day, he tried to abduct a 15 year old girl and force her into his car. He's disgusting. But she got away. Like she was able to run away. He also tried to kidnap a fucking 12 year olds on her way to school. Oh my god. Literally grabbed her and was trying to throw her in his car and she saw a neighbor working in the yard.

She's on her way to school. A 12 year old. Yeah, like a sixth or seventh grader. Literally saw a neighbor working in her yard and was able to break free from him and run directly into this neighbor's arms. Like this neighbor just grabbed her. Talk about timing.

Yes, and it's like, what? He was gonna do this to a 12-year-old? What seems like he was trying to look for somebody like more vulnerable and take. That was one of the things they said about him later was if you put up too much of a fight with him, he would like, like that would throw him off because he wanted the easy thing or what he determined to be the easy thing. So that's why like, they all fought, like most of them fought to some extent,

you know what I mean? But it was like, if you somehow were able to like, get someone else involved or get, because as soon as someone else became involved, he was a wild flower. Like he was a little bitch. So it's like, if he got you alone, he was more likely to overpower you no matter what.

But if you could get someone else's attention or like break free somehow, he was out of there. And it's just like a fucking 12 year, you were going to bring a 12 year old back to your fucking basement of horrors. I can't get over that. Like I'm like- You literally have like two children.

Literally. You're a father. Like that's disgusting and horrific no matter what, but you add the layer of the fact that he has his own children. He is... I mean, I don't think there's enough credit is put on how bad this guy is. Yeah. I think it gets overshadowed a lot by like,

oh, he's the shoe guy. Like he's the shoe fetish guy. But there's a lot more to it. And that's like the, what a weird part of this story. And it's like, oh, he's the shoe guy. Like he's the shoe fetish guy. But there's a lot more to it. And that's like the, oh, what a weird part of this story. And it's like, yeah, that's real weird. Do you know what else he did? Like, it's just like, you got to look at what this fucker did. Like he's gross. He's awful. He's a fucking necrophiliac.

Oh, he's a fucking demon. And it's great. Like you were just saying, the shoe thing definitely overtakes this story because I know who Jerry Brudeau says I've heard the story. But I actually forgot that he was a necrophiliac. Yes. And it's like the shoe thing is a big deal. Yeah, of course. Because it's like he, that is a massive part of his pathology and it's a massive part of what he fetishizes and what he does. And it seems like why he became who he was.

Exactly. And you heard what he said with, you know, with Karen Springer. Right. She, he said, I didn't like her shoes, but she was pretty. Yep. But like he, he had to comment on the shoes. Like I didn't like her shoes. Yeah. So it was a massive part of his pathology.

So I'm not knocking the fact that like that's a big part of this and it should be a big part of it. But like, I feel like it doesn't get known how bad he was. He was disgusting. Yeah. So after trying to abduct a 12 year olds and failing, just one day later, he's like desperate on April 23rd, Jerry drove over to Portland where he spotted 22 year old Linda Sally loading

bags on into her car in the parking lot at the Lloyd Center. Armed with that same toy pistol and now a fake police badge. He approached Linda and he flashed the badge and he told her that he was a store detective with the Lloyd Center and he was taking her into custody for shoplifting. So Linda was like, what are you talking about? I didn't shoplift anything. Like, no, like you have the wrong person. But he was very insistent and she was always one to follow the rules. She didn't go against authority. So she went with him. Well, you're not going to like run away from what you think is a police officer.

No, and that's, and of course not. And later after his arrest, Jerry commented on this and said, she didn't fight me at all. She just got into my car. Well, why would she? Because you were pretending to be a detective. A fucking asshole. Like making it seem like, like it was so weird. She didn't do anything. You're making it seem like you're a detective.

Which is the entire reason that you came up with that plan in the first place. Remember, this is in the sixties. It's like people like we're just coming out of the fifties here. People are taught to respect even now, but it's like, especially back then, you were taught to respect police officers. Like especially as a woman, you didn't have a lot of fucking rights back then. That's the thing. So it's like, of course she did.

Yeah. Oh, it's so annoying. And she apparently, according to him, remained completely silent the whole drive. She didn't even speak up when it was clear that they had passed the Portland city limits and crossed into Salem. Well, she's probably just trying to figure out how the fuck to get out of there.

She's probably in complete shock and terrified and still being like, is he a detective? Like he flashed a badge. What is going on? So they pulled into his home and she still didn't say anything. And once he led Linda into the basement workshop is what he called it. He tied her up with rope and then went back into the house to have dinner with his family while she was tied up. And they just like, they never heard screams or anything like that. I guess not. They never heard struggles. I'm shocked by it, to be honest. Yeah. Not the kids, obviously.

No, not the kids, but Ralphine. I'm like, Raffy, you never heard anything? Which again, like we've seen that happen. I mean, yeah, it happens. For sure. But this is just like, whoa. Because I feel like a lot of times, like when somebody's like, yeah, I didn't know anything, is when they're- It wasn't happening in the house. Right, like when they're bringing back people

that they've already killed. Yeah. But the fact that he like dragged this girl into the basement and tied her up and then was like, okay, dinner time. Yeah. It's just strange. That's what's confusing to me is like,

he's bringing live women back to his house to murder in his basement. Right. And it's like, there's times where there is like, you know, his wife is home. And also like, I mean, maybe this is just me, but like you hear a car pull in the driveway, I look at my camera or before cameras, I would look out the shades. Yeah. Like, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Unless he's picking specific times where Ralphine isn't home when he pulls in. So she just comes home and gets home and starts to just walks upstairs and is none the wiser.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Like it's possible. No, definitely. It's just I'm like damn. It's also just another thing of how bold and brazen. Oh yeah. And how completely like having no room,, he's remorseless. He walks upstairs

and has dinner with his family. Knowing what's happening down there. Knowing somebody else's child is downstairs in his basement. Like it's, you know what I mean? Like that's just fucked up. He's looking at his wife, a woman he claims to love and has another woman downstairs in his basement. And a daughter. Yeah. So this asshole had dinner with his family and then he just goes back downstairs to the basement and Linda had actually freed herself from her ropes somehow, but she was just sitting

there on the couch. Okay. Hadn't tried to run away, you know, nothing like that. She likely believed he was going to let her go eventually. What bothered me about this is he made it seem, and he had like a habit of doing this where he would sit there with detectives and be like, yeah, it's so weird. She just sat there. She didn't even try to get away.

She didn't even try to use the phone. And it's like, I think what you're failing to tell us, you big piece of shit, is that you probably told her several times, if you just stay put and listen to what I say, you're going to go home to your family tonight. And it's like, he's making it seem like these dumb women didn't do anything. Like, of course I killed her. And it's like, first of all, you told her you were a detective. So she probably had no fucking clue what was going on.

And it's like, don't tell me that you didn't give her some kind of idea that if she just listened and didn't fight back, that you were going to let her go. It pisses me off so much because he did the thing was like, it's crazy. She's got my car. You flashed her a badge. Right. Of course you have to take her downtown. Like, come on.

Yeah. This one is very, they're all very unsettling and graphic, but this one just has like an added element into it, just so you know. So it was, she just kind of was sitting there when he came downstairs, probably hoping that he was just going to be like, okay, let's get you home. It was only when Jerry pulled out a big belt, like a leather strap and tried to get it around her neck that Linda lost it. She started resisting, kicking, scratching at every part of him that she could, which

again, she's yelling, she's fighting. There's nothing over her mouth to stop her from yelling. In his home basement. She was fighting the whole time and he finally did get it around her neck and he strangled her to death, but she fought hard. fighting the whole time and he finally did get it around her neck and he strangled her to death. But she fought hard. He did what he did to all the other women that he killed.

He violated Linda's body, he photographed her and then he hung her up by her neck on the usual pulley system, her body. And while she hung there, he placed needles into her rib cage on either side and attached those to wires and an electrical current attached to a large battery. And what he was hoping to do there was he was hoping that by doing that and like sending the electrical current through there that he would make her body like jump or dance on the pulley, like animate it in some way. What a fucking weirdo.

And it didn't do that. It just burnt her skin, which she was upset to find out. That's just so sad. It reminds me of the Hillside Stranglers with the usage of like electrical and experimentation like that and stuff and how they just, and the way they are so fucking callous and cold about it later, just being like, what, I want to see what would happen. It's like, this is a person. Like, what are you doing?

Like, what the fuck? So a few days later, Jerry weighted Linda's body down with another old engine that he could find and dropped her body into the Long Tom River as well, not far from where he had dumped Karen Sprinker's body. And then he just went home. Now with the recent disappearances of Jan Whitney and Karen Sprinker and the attempted abductions just a few days earlier, like one after the other,

Linda Sally's disappearance was taken pretty seriously, right away. Like the other women, I feel like they were like, oh, maybe they ran away. Oh, it's a one-off. But now they were like, oh shit, these might be connected now. When you have three, it's like, okay.

Like start looking at it. And not only three women who have turned up missing, but all other disappearances and other assaults. And attempts. Exactly. Now everyone who knew Linda described her as very stable and very reliable, hardly the type of person that would run off without telling anyone.

So finally they listened to people who knew her. And also Linda's car was discovered abandoned in a parking lot, which definitely supported the theory that she was taken away from where she was and that she didn't run away with it. Now, whether he was in a rush or was just careless, Jerry failed to notice how shallow the part of the water was where he dumped Linda's remains. About two weeks later on May 10th, two men fishing on the Long Tom River noticed something partially submerged in the water. When they got closer, they realized it was the partially nude body of a young woman.

Her remains had been tied to an auto transmission. It was tied using a nylon cord and copper wiring, which he used for all of them. And that was going to be something that tied him to it. Because those are very specific things, nylon cord, copper wiring. It's not like a regular rope. So by the time the body was discovered, decomposition and the effects of being in the water had made Linda's face largely unrecognizable. Investigators thought it could actually have been Karen Sprinker at first.

And ironically, it was just two days later while investigating that same area for evidence, you know, in Lind, in whoever this body was, that the sheriff's department divers also located Karen Sprinker's body about 50 feet from where Linda Sally had been discovered. Oh, wow. Yeah. So Linda's body was identified through dental records. Okay. Because that's how badly she was decomposed. Karen's body was tentatively identified by her mother through a description of her personal items, which

is just horrifying. That's heartbreaking, yeah. Detectives were glad to have some information to work with, but they couldn't ignore the fact that the similarities in the cases suggested that they were likely looking for one killer. Not only were the bodies left in roughly the same area, but they also were killed and weighted down in very similar ways. Also they were mindful of the fact that Jan Whitney had also disappeared under similar circumstances and they couldn't rule out the possibility that this was the same person

and they had a serial killer. Now in the days that followed, divers continued to comb that riverbed looking for any additional evidence belonging to either the women or anything else of that matter, but they didn't get anything else. Sheriff Charles Ream told reporters on May 15th, we're sure there are no more bodies under the bridge. The problem was though that they also didn't have a lot of leads to work with at this point. The lack of leads kind of sent detectives

back to the drawing board a little bit. So they looked at the last time anyone had seen Linda and it seemed impossible that her killer could have abducted her in like a brightly lit parking lot in the middle of the day. But honestly, he had done it at least one other time in the case of Karen Sprinker. So, and it is shocking. Like I understand why they were like, how the fuck did he just grab her? He had done it at least one other time in the case of Karen Sprinker.

And it is shocking. I understand why they were like, how the fuck did he just grab her? And daylight. And they're thinking he couldn't have grabbed her and she fought back and brought daylight. Someone would have seen her. But then they're like, but again, it happened to Karen. You never know. So you just don't know.

But they said that back at Lloyd's, they talked to a clerk that was at the jewelry counter who had last seen Linda and they ended up being the last person who saw Linda alive besides Jerry Brudos. But this clerk said that she remembered Linda because it happened to be a very slow day and she took a long time making up her mind. So she just had remembered her. Yeah, she spent a lot of time with her. But that's all she could really tell her was just like, yeah, she was in here. Right. Now

for months, investigators dug into every aspect of the victim's lives, just trying to find anything that they could connect them together or that they could just figure out anybody connected to them that could do this. But they just kept coming up like dead end after dead end. And then in mid May, they finally got a break when an Oregon State University student called police to report an incident. This incident was when a suspicious man had called this girl out of nowhere on May 14th. And this guy just asked her out on a date. And she was like, I didn't know who he was.

He was a man who called me. And I guess he said, I just came back from Vietnam and he had dialed her number at random. That's what he told her. That's believable. And he wanted to ask her out on a date. He was like, you know what, let's go out. And she said, you have no idea what I look like. You have no idea what my name even is.

And you want to go on a date? Yeah. You have no idea what my fucking name even is and you want to go on a date. You good? But she said, I didn't know why, but I accepted the date and I said I would meet him. She's a college student. So maybe she was just like, you know what? Maybe she's a big believer in fate. Maybe I think that's why she was like, you know what, maybe this was the sixties.

Yeah, we're in nearing the seventies. Very different time. Honestly, it me. Oh my God, my future husband just called. Yeah, we're in nearing the 70s. Very, very different time. Honestly, it me. You're like, oh my god, my future husband just called. You're like, the stars have aligned. Relatable. Hotshot Australian attorney Nicola Gabba was born into legal royalty, her specialty representing

some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld and she's informing on them all. I'm Marcia Clark, host of the new podcast, Informance Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list.

She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop. Now through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informants, LawyerX, exclusively on Wondry+. Join Wondry+, in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and listen to more Exhibit C, True Crime shows, early and ad-free right now. In a quiet suburb, a community is shattered by the death of a beloved wife and mother.

But this tragic loss of life quickly turns into something even darker. Her husband had tried to hire a hitman on the dark web to kill her. And she wasn't the only target. Because buried in the depths of the internet is The Kill List, a cache of chilling documents containing names, photos, addresses and specific instructions for people's murders. This podcast is the true story of how I ended up in a race against time to warn those who lives were in danger. And it turns out, convincing a total stranger someone wants them dead is not easy.

Follow Kill List on the Wanderer app wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Kill List and more Exhibit C Truecrime shows like Morbid early and add free right now by joining Wanderer Plus. Check out Exhibit C in the Wanderer app for all your Truecrime listening. So the two met at the Oregon State dorm lounge and the girl said it was a very awkward experience, which I imagine it was. I hate that it's Jerry Brudos, obviously, that she met up with, but I love that she was just like, all right. And she went to like a public place.

Yeah, she was smart about it. She didn't go meet him at like some secluded area or like his house or something. So they made small talk briefly and then the man began telling her about his experience with new massage techniques. No gracias. And before she could even say anything, he was up and standing behind her and massaging her shoulders. Nope, get the fuck away from me.

Do not touch me without my consent. Same. He told her to think of something sad while he was doing it. Why would I think of sad things while you're relieving tension for my body, you fucking idiot? Well, and she was like, I can't. I don't know what to think of.

Like she was like, what the fuck? So his response was, think of the two girls killed and put in the Long Tom River. Oh. Yeah. I'd say, you know what? I've got to go back to my dorm now. Get the fuck away from me. Scream. The conversation progressed and eventually the man mentioned that he believed people should be able to decide for themselves what's right and wrong. Oh yeah, that's a

good idea. And she was like, hard disagree. And she said it to him. She was like, hard disagree. Like that is not how the world works. No. There's bad people in the world. So like bad people can't decide what's right and wrong for people. And he became irrationally angry at her for that. Did not want to hear that. And the flare up of anger obviously made her very uncomfortable. And scared. But it wasn't until he mentioned that he needed to replace the engine in his car, that she really became uncomfortable because she remembered that at least one of the women that had been found in the river had been bound to an engine block when she was discovered. And she was like too much. Too much is leading back here. Why is he telling her all of this?

Oh, and it gets worse because the most alarming moment happened when after they'd been talking about the missing women for a little, because he kept bringing it back, Jerry casually asked, and he was referring to her agreeing to meet him when she didn't know who he was. So he was, this is why I think he does this shit to make women look stupid. Because he invited her, he called her up, pretended to be this guy, got her to come there with him and now she's going to kind of shame her for it. Because he said, what makes you want to be raped like the other girls?

Oh my God. Whoa. He casually said that. Oh my God. Referring to the fact like, well, you just showed up and met a stranger. What makes you want to? He's like, they must've done. And again, he's blaming the other girls like they must've wanted to. Holy. Nicole Soule-Pilson Holy shit. And also, like, first of all-

Beth Dombkowski When they were going to a department store. Nicole Soule-Pilson Well, that's the thing, like, this girl came for a date and did not want that. That does not mean that she wanted to be raped. And those two girls, you took them against their will. So what the fuck are you talking about, small guy? Beth Dombkowski Exactly, a small guy. Nicole Soule-Pilson Look at that ass. Beth Dombkowski It's so true. Like, and that's why when he's doing this whole thing, like the story

and the story out there for Linda Sally is like that he just came downstairs and it was so weird. She had untied herself and she's just sitting there. She didn't even try to call on the phone. She didn't even try to escape. Like that's the story. That's everywhere you read and it's, there's no, like, no like, it's almost being like, isn't that weird that she just like, was fine with being in this guy's basement and like, didn't try to get away. And he's like, no, no, no, it's very clear that this is what he does. That he is, has clearly made her promises and kept her docile with the hope of getting

the fuck out of there. And then he's going to turn around to the detectives and go, yeah, isn't it fucking weird? She just like untied herself and didn't even try to escape. She must've wanted it. Well, and I also was thinking, fuck you. And I also was thinking too, I feel like the fact that he took pictures of women almost led them to believe that like he would let them go

because then he had some kind of blackmail over them. Exactly. And they could just say like, I'm not gonna tell anybody. You have those pictures of me. You have those pictures, I'm gonna go. Yeah, like we have an equal thing here anybody. You have those pictures of me. I'm gonna go. Yeah, like, we have an equal thing here, and I'm going, and we'll never have to do this again.

And, yeah, and I can see why somebody photographing you like that wouldn't lead you to believe that the next step would be them killing you. Exactly. It would actually lead you to believe, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I am in this position, I'm gonna take these pictures, and then I'm gonna get the fuck out of here.

I'm just gonna try to get myself out of here so I can at least try to get help. Right. Like I'll do what he says to keep him calm. Right. Because he's also a big guy. That's the other thing. Even though I just called him small guy.

Jerry Brudos, he's a small guy. Well, small guy mentality for sure. Exactly. Like that's, he has the, he has the energy of a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny microman. Small dick energy, if you will. The tiniest dick energy.

TLDR small dick energy. Oh my God, yeah. But he's a big guy. He's a big freckled man. I actually haven't looked up a picture of him this entire time. He's heinous. I believe that. He's heinous.

I usually are. Something you just said about the way that he was just sitting there on the date with her and saying like what he just said to her about, you know, well, why do you want to get raped like those girls? It reminds me, I just watched the new Anna Kendrick movie that she it's like her directorial debut. I heard great things about it. Woman of the hour. I just watched it was so good. But it reminds me of this one scene in the movie where he gets like upset with a girl that he's very much trying to kill. And it just sent chills

down my fucking spine. But 10 out of 10 recommend that movie really good. I definitely want to watch that. Siri also is interested. Siri is also like you should watch that. She said I didn't hear that. What movie was that bitch? Just tell me more. But that's, that's the thing. I feel like this, if you look him up, he's a big, Jerry Brudos is like a big beady eyed fuck.

And I'm sure they were trying to comply because he's a scary fucking intimidating foe to be in his world. So they're probably just trying to just like comply, get the fuck out of there. But it pisses me off that this little asshole likes to make it like, oh, so what makes you want to do this just like the other girls? And it's like, first of all, shut the fuck up. They didn't, nobody wants it. Shut the fuck up. And it's like, and you were the weird fuck who called her and did this,

and she met you in a public place, okay? On this campus. Yeah, exactly. Like, she's safe here. You're the one being a weirdo. It's for the shock factor because you're immediately silly. Imagine sitting across from somebody and hearing them say that to you. Immediately all you would, like you would dart back.

Of course. And it's to shame them. Yeah, exactly. It's to make her feel uncomfortable, to make her feel ashamed that she has agreed to do this. And he's a piece of shit. So where do we go from here? So after they'd returned to the dorm because he walked her back to the dorm, the man asked

if he could see her again and she was like, I'll think about it. But as soon as he left, because she didn't want to piss him off. So she was like, I'll think about it. As soon as he left, she called a Corvallis detective to report it. Smart fucking girl. That's my girl. And they said, okay, here's what we want you to do. We want you to make another date with him, but we will be waiting for him when he comes

to pick you up. This poor girl. So they were like, you don't have to go on the date. You just have to make a date with him. And she did. So she made a date for a few days later. And so she was like, come pick me up. And when he came to pick her up, detectives were waiting to question him.

This might be my next favorite apprehension next to fucking the night stalker. Well, it's kind of this one's layered because they didn't have anything on him yet. Oh, so they're just questioning him. Still great. Still great. He thought he was going on a date with this girl. But yes, but also it was like creep though. He thought he was going on a date with this girl, but... Yes.

But also... He was like creeped. He was probably going to kill her. Well, one, he was going to kill her and two, I'm like, did you guys put her in the fucking witness protection program? Yeah, seriously. Because you didn't arrest him after that. He knows where she lives.

The good news is this is what gets him on the radar. So this leads to his arrest for sure. So he gave detectives his name, but he provided a fake address and denied knowing anything about the murders of Linda and Karen or the disappearances and attempted abductions of other young women. But still, Detective Jim Stovall recalled that how Jerry, quote, attempted to play mind games with him during their interview. So this dumb fuck thinks he's smart too.

I would be like, you're a laugh. I wish they, I hope they were just so fucking mean to him, I would demean this man until his future generations felt it. Like just ruin his life. According to Stovall, Brudeau's quote used hypothetical examples of what the killer could have done.

That struck a little too close to the truth to be a coincidence. Wow. It's giving if I did it. I literally was just thinking that. Now, despite their suspicions, investigators had no crime that they could charge him with, technically. He didn't do anything.

And Jerry, he was just kind of being weird and creepy, but you can't really charge anyone with being weird and creepy. So they had to let him go. And in the week that followed, they discovered that their instincts were probably right about Brutus because a search of his name, they went like further into his background. It turned up previous charges for assault and kidnapping, as well as his incarceration at the state hospital in his late teens.

They also discovered a 1960 arrest where Jerry was arrested for prowling around the Oregon State campus. Oh no. So Brutus also lived in close proximity to where the victims had been abducted from. So as they're putting all these things together, they're being like, all right, some something's off here. He's got a record. Yeah. He was acting strange with us. He was trying to play mind games with us, getting a little too close to the real details of shit and how he lives close to where they're abducted, like all the pieces are falling in. And his car wasn't a match for the one

that had been identified in the attempted abduction of like some of the young women who had gotten away, but his mother's car was. And she had been known to, she was known to have been staying with him at the time. So he was going to abduct these, this 12 year old, this 15 year old, this 23 year old in his mother's car and probably killed them in her car. He probably got like some kick out of that because obviously he hated her.

That was for sure part of it. Oh, the weird psychological layers to that. Oh yeah. Wow. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So the information Stovall and the other detectives managed to get together was enough to get a warrant. So they really did their due diligence after this meeting. They had to let them go, but they didn't let it lie.

They went further and got enough to get a warrant to arrest him or to search his home. So on May 26th, 1969, Stovall and a team of investigators arrived at Jerry Brutus' front door, which is not good for him. So the warrant to search his house mentioned the sexual nature of the crimes and the specific ways in which the bodies had been disposed of, including the use of the copper wire and the nylon cord being very specific, very niche, and also the car parts that they had been bound to. In their search of the basement, investigators found copper wire and nylon cord.

Imagine that. And they matched exactly to those found in the murders. They also found industrial mechanical cloth, which matched the cloth that was discovered on Linda's body. Wow. Now the materials discovered in the basement tied Brutus to the missing and murdered women. But the most damning evidence was the massive stash of photographs

showing nude bodies dangling from a rope. And that's a quote. And women's clothing discovered all over. Like all, they found a massive stockpile of this stuff. According to the press, many of the photos of women were taken from the neck down. So it was difficult to identify them or even determine whether they were alive

when the picture was taken. That's horrifying. But at least one photo, a small image that was confiscated from Jerry's wallet, he was carrying it around with him, was a nude Karen Sprinker. Oh, that's awful. And it was like her face was in it. Also in many of the images, they found that there was a mirror that he had laid on the

ground underneath the women's bodies so that he could like dress them, hang them up and put a mirror underneath their bodies so he can look up their dresses. Oh God, ew. Yep. And in one of those specific photos with the mirror, there is an image of Jerry's own fucking face reflected back as he was taking the fucking photo. He's so simple. And it is, you can see the photograph,

it is just of his face, like they blew, it's not like the whole photograph. Yeah, no. It's just the part that's his face. Yeah. And it's haunting to look at, because you are looking at the moment that this person- Is torturing someone. It's wild to look at somebody in the moment that this person... Who's torturing someone. It's wild to look at somebody in the moment

that, like, they have no humanity. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that it's just like, they are... They're most... A creature we can't even fathom. You know what I mean? It's weird to be able to look at someone. And in that photo, be it because of the flash

or like something else, that whatever happened, it distorted his face a little. So his eyes are like blurred, like there's no eyes. Oh, that's horrifying. And his eyes are like the scariest part of him for something. He has very beady eyes. He has very evil looking eyes. And they're like erased off his face.

It's a very... Oh, that just sent a chill down my spine again. Yeah, it's very, very unsettling. But it was a very specific thing about him that he would put that mirror under there and take photos because he liked having all the angles. That's disgusting. Yeah. So the discoveries in his home were enough for an arrest warrant. I would say so.

And on May 29th, Jerry Brudos was arrested for the murders of Karen Sprinker and Linda Sally. Since he had become a suspect two weeks earlier, technically, Jerry had been under constant surveillance. They were not letting him just walk around. That's good. And he was picked up after, and this is interesting, after officers pulled Ralphine over while she was driving, his wife, and found Jerry hidden under a blanket in the back of the car.

Huh. And what they believed was that he was attempting to flee the state. Yeah, she was helping him out. That's interesting. That's upsetting. A few days later on June 2nd, two additional murder charges were added for the murders of Linda Slauson and Jan Whitney, as well as a charge for assault while armed with a dangerous weapon related to the attempted kidnapping of the 15 year old victim.

She had identified Brudos as the man who tried to abduct her. Good for her. What a brave girl. On June 4th, the grand jury indicted Jerry for the murder of Karen, to which he entered a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. You're gross, but not insane. Yep. The judge on the case, Val Sloper, accepted the plea, but ordered that Jerry had to undergo psychiatric examination before proceeding with the case. Because he was like, okay, you want to claim that you're insane?

Get me some experts that agree with you. So in a statement to the press, Jerry's lawyer, Dale Drake, told reporters that he expected the trial to begin sometime within the following four to six months, because they were going to have to gather all that. But at the same time, District Attorney Gary Gortmaker was holding off on pursuing an indictment for the other three murders because he didn't want to be forced to reveal the details of those cases to the defense during the trial prep for the Karen Sprinker case. During discovery.

Now, by mid-June, the evidence against Jerry Brutus had been piling up. So it seemed very unlikely that he was going to get away with murder. In addition to the photographs and women's clothing, investigators had discovered additional evidence indicating that at least two of the murders, those of Jan Whitney and Linda Sally, had occurred in Jerry's home. Like at least those two had been murdered in his home. And the manner of the deaths were listed as, and this just gave me like, it was very chilling to me, the manners of death were listed as hands, rope and strap. Under the circumstances and believing he could successfully use an insanity defense, Jerry

began providing Detective Stovall with details of the crimes. Because he was thinking, well, I'm going to bleed insanity. He was careful to omit certain pieces of incriminating evidence, like the location of Linda Slauson's body because they had not found Linda yet. He did this under the mistaken assumption that they couldn't charge him with her murder if they couldn't find her body, which we know is incorrect. When he wasn't meeting with his lawyers or detectives, he was spending a lot of time with any of the seven state psychiatrists assigned to the case by the state.

Wow. In general, they observed what they described as quote, a man who was agitated and tense, could not sit still for an interview, but rose frequently to start stride around the interview room. And when he was cooperative, the evaluating psychiatrist found him to be affable and talkative, saying that he spoke with grandiosity and immaturity and peppered his conversations with unnecessary details. A check. Because he's a lying sack of shit. The doctors also noted that Jerry seemed to demonstrate

an appropriate range of emotional responses when discussing most subjects, except when he talked about the deaths of the victims. And he said, they said during, they all said during that time, he showed no emotion at all. That's really scary. Totally human, except when he was speaking about the deaths of them, where he didn't give a shit. In fact, in one case, he called, I believe it was Linda Sally. He referred to her as inconsequential to him as a candy wrapper. What the fuck? And the fact that he can't even, it seems like he can't even pretend to care.

No, and he makes no attempt to. He's just like, no, I don't care. That's so dark. Yeah. And he said, he told them, I act the way I do because everybody takes advantage of me. And that's how he described why he was such a violent predator. That's not true. And it was clear.

You take advantage of others. It was clear to the evaluating psychiatrist that his behavior stemmed from his very bad and very abusive relationship with his mother in particular. But as far as Jerry was concerned, he attacked and killed women because his wife couldn't meet his sexual needs. Okay. He said, she won't dress up like the other women do, and that makes me feel sorry for myself.

Makes you feel sorry for yourself? Also, like, hey, there's this thing called divorce, and there's also this thing called, there's many other women on this planet. So, like, if that's a kink that you have, talk about it before you get married to somebody and like figure that whole part of yourself out. And just the fact that when someone says and then it made me feel sorry for myself, Gross.

Completely negated. Gross. Whatever statement you made before that, I don't give a fuck. It made me feel sorry for myself. Shut the fuck up. Well, it's also just another way to blame another woman. Of course. Like I'm mad at Ralphie.

It's women's fault. I'm mad at her for trying to drive him past state lines, but I am also sorry for her for that. For like, what the fuck? Right. He's just always trying to blame a woman. Anybody else. Yeah.

And in his evaluation report to the prosecution, Dr. Guy Parvarush summarized Jerry as follows. In psychiatric examination, he was obviously anxious, agitated, and depressed. He cried frequently, saying he was sick and that he could not have help. Throughout the detailed discussion of his crimes, he appeared very preoccupied, emotionally detached and quite certain that these things had to be done. In general, I did not find any evidence of a psychotic process or evidence of perceptual disturbances.

His cognitive processes are very well maintained, and he was able to give details of past and recent events. He shows poor and faulty social judgment and certainly has no insight into his basic emotional problems. It is my clinical opinion that Mr. Brudos understands the nature of the charges against him and can assist in his own defense. This man has a paranoid disorder and his behavior is a product of that disorder. Despite this, I believe he can differentiate between what is morally and socially right and wrong.

100%. All the other examining psychiatrists had basically the same opinion. And you said there was like seven total, right? Seven of them. They all noted that while Jerry did appear to meet the diagnostic criteria for a psychotic disorder, he was certainly capable of knowing that his behavior and perspectives were socially unacceptable and in certain cases criminally unacceptable. Also at least one of the psychiatrists, Dr. George Sukau, noted that on all three occasions that Mr. Brudos has requested psychiatric help in his life, he has been in difficulty

with the law. So as he saw it, Jerry was savvy enough to use his psychiatric history to his benefit, citing his mental illness whenever he was in trouble. That's pretty savvy. That is. However, he also wrote, though he does describe some rather elaborate fantasies of a sadistic nature towards women in particular, none of these is extensive enough or involved enough to qualify, in my opinion, as being delusional, since he clearly understands that they are

not real. Yeah. Now, in simple terms, Jerry Brudos may have been a violent sex offender and murderer who my opinion, as being delusional, since he clearly understands that they are not real. Now in simple terms, Jerry Brudos may have been a violent sex offender and murderer who saw himself as being above the standards of others, but he was well aware of what he was doing. And when he committed the murders that he was charged for, he was fully, he knew what was going on. He knew it was wrong. He was fine with it. And in fact, several of the psychiatrists who evaluated him diagnosed him with an antisocial personality disorder and noted that there was no known treatment for such individuals.

And George Suckow wrote, in the convoluted medical ease of the psychiatrist, Jerome Henry Brudos was quite sane and eminently dangerous. In the language of the man on the street, he was a monster. He would always be a monster. He certainly is. So he's saying this guy is a monster and he can never be cured. This is who he is and you cannot rehabilitate him. You just wonder like, what's missing? What like what piece is missing? I think the more we see these things,

the more I am convinced childhood is so vital to who you become. Something gets broken in a very specific way by a very specific set of treatments or situations that you are in when you are in a perfect state of development. I don't even know if it's just that though, because that happens and people turn out fine. But that's what I mean. I think it has to be a perfect storm. I think it has to be at a certain,

I think we don't know what that one spot in development is that if you fuck it up, you're fucked. I think we can't pinpoint it yet. Well, and I wonder if it's like you... It's so hard to like, articulate, but... I wonder if it's that, but also like if not everybody has... that thing that you can fuck up. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like they have, like, the people like this who do things like this, like Jerry Brudos did, there's got to be something in them already.

Like, I truly believe that there's gotta be something innately wrong with you from the jump that then... I feel like I'm a pretty firm believer that it's nature and nurture at the same time. I agree. I think, I mean, when you look at his mother, I mean, when you look at his mother, any mother who can actively hurt their child and neglect their child and show that and abuse their child and tell them basically that they're not worth what the other child is, there's something broken in that person.

Oh, absolutely. And it's like, so obviously something could absolutely be in there biologically and genetically that's just broken. Right. But you wonder where it all starts. How far back does that start? Not only do I wonder how far back that starts, but what is that piece? And I wish there was like, I feel like someday we will figure it out. We need to like follow a line back and you need to like first determine where every, where you see these little bits and pieces of things to determine what is this coming

through the maternal side, paternal side? Is it both? Does it matter? Does it skip a generation? Does it go every three generations that you see? Is it every generation? And I feel like there's gotta be some kind of stimulus or stimuli where something, like one part of the brain connects with another part that it's not supposed to given a certain response. There's some pathway that is disrupted

or is bifurcated or created. Something is happening. Yes. I just want to know what it is. It makes it because it's like, and obviously, if we knew what it was, we could stop these things from happening before they happen. Well, and I just wonder like how many studies are being done on incarcerated serial killers, because I think, like, I'd be happy to fucking fund that, just to find out. For real, like, I would love to be able, I just want to see, and it's something to look into and I think we should look into, like, what studies are being currently done on this

kind of stuff? Yeah, let's look into that a little bit and maybe follow up in the next couple of episodes. I'm just interested in, like, what are we looking at? Well, there's got to be some psychology behind this all. There's got to be some... There's psychology, there's physiology, there's... I feel like there's so many things happening. There's a lot at work for sure.

There's got to be some common thread that just... that no one's been able to find. Because it's like finding a thread in a haystack. Yeah, we need to gather like three to five fucking monsters and just study the fuck out of their brains while they're still living, you know? It would be a very hard study to conduct. It would be a very hard study, that's the thing.

Like it would be dangerous, I'm sure. But I'm just, there's got to be something. And I just want to know what it is. This kind of stuff is fascinating. It is. Because it really is. Because like we always say, like they're not always from a home like this, you know?

No. Or there's things that, I mean, there's things that I hear in certain stories that I can relate to. And I'm like, I am not a serial killer, you know? Exactly, that's why I think it's just, there's gotta be a perfect storm of things that once it all meets, it's like to be a perfect storm of things that once

it all meets, it's like all the boxes get ticked and an explosion happens. Yeah. And I, I don't know. My brain is just really rambling now because I'm also like, why is it more often men than like, obviously there are women serial killers, but it's so, it's, but they usually happen as often. So is it something within like, within chromosomes? Yeah, like, what could this be?

There's just, I just want to know about the science. I know it's just like, it really is. And he's really one of those like, because you're like, what the fuck, you are just a straight up monster. Yeah. But then you look at his background and you're like, yeah, there's some shitty things going on in there. But then you go back to that whole thing of like, a lot of people have shitty upbringings. Yeah, I find him to be really similar to Ted Bundy. Yeah. Especially with like the necrophilia, like that kind of thing. But then he's got like hillside stranglers in there.

Yeah, definitely. He's got some BTK in there. Yep, definitely. He's got, and that's the thing, you look at all these things and you're like, what the fuck's going on? Yeah. What's going on with all you? And, you look at all these- He's got amalgamation. What the fuck's going on? Yeah. What's going on with all you? And he was before BTK, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think BTK was like killing at that point, but- Yeah. Not caught. He was in the seventies. Yeah. So he wasn't going yet.

Wasn't going yet. Yeah. He was 69. He was just about to start. So by mid-June, Jerry had entered similar plays of Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity and the Indictments for the Murders of Jan Whitney and Linda Salley. But by the time the psychiatric evaluations started flowing in, it was clear that he was not going to have anything to back that up.

Definitely no expert witnesses, no testimony, no evidence. No diggity. So he had no choice but to change his police. On June 27th, 1969, just three days before his trial for the murder of Karen Sprinker, Jerry changed his plea to guilty on all three counts of murder. There it is. At the time, the prosecution didn't have enough evidence to get an indictment for the murder

of Linda Slauson. Oh, that's sad. So that charge was dropped. That always makes me so sad when like... You know he did it, but they just can't get like the official amount. When Judge Sloper asked for confirmation, defense attorney Dale Drake said, the defense had exhausted every legal remedy for providing Brutus with the defense. And he added the state's evidence tallied with statements made by Brutus to his defense

team. So when Sloper addressed Brutus directly and asked why he was changing his plea, Jerry said, well, because I did it. Whoa. That was his answer. How simple is that? He waived his right to a delay between conviction and sentencing as well. So Judge Sloper imposed three life sentences, each running consecutively, putting Brutus

in jail for the rest of his life. On July 28th, just one month after he was sentenced, the body of Jane Whitney was discovered, tied to a piece of railroad iron submerged in the Willamette River. That same day, the prosecutor's office released a statement to the press saying, although he had confessed,

they would not be pursuing a case against Brutus for the murder of Linda Slauson. They said, we have no substantiation. So they just were having trouble getting the pieces together. He confessed to it. Unfortunately, and this is really heartbreaking, Linda Slauson's remains were never recovered. And Brutus refused to tell investigators where he had disposed of her body. What a douche. So the sentences handed down to Jerry brought a lot of relief, especially to women in Oregon,

as well as for the families of the victims. But many were very concerned though, because the sentences still allowed for parole. Parole. I was just thinking that. Yeah. Under the terms of his sentence, Jerry could be eligible for parole in as little as 10 years. Wow. After receiving three life sentences.

Contingent upon the adjustment he makes during the interim is what it said. In response to the community's concerns, Oregon parole board chairman, Jack Wiseman released a statement saying there'll be a continual study of the case over the course of his imprisonment to evaluate his threat level before parole could even be considered, which really like that basically. I think his threat level is pretty fucking high guys. Threat level midnight. I don't think you need to continue studying that. Threat level midnight at all times.

And he said, there must be sufficient learning, adjustment, emotional, social, and psychological on the part of Brutus before he would be a proper candidate for serious parole, even consideration. So that's nice, but still the idea of it is still scary. Those families were probably freaking the fuck out. Of course. As it happened, Jerry Brutus became a model prisoner once he started serving his sentence. He joined several programs. He even took on a clerical job at the Oregon State Penitentiary.

But he did remain a target for the other prisoners, particularly those who targeted sex offenders and sexual killers, including one incident in 1978 when he was stabbed a lot by a fellow inmate. I just lived a lot. A lot, but he lived, unfortunately. Throughout his nearly four decades in prison, Jerry was considered for parole a number of times, but each time he was denied. That message has just been gut wrenching for those families.

The families all had to go through it over and over again. Because that's a lengthy process. It's not like they just like, you know. The number that must have done in their nervous systems to have to be in fight or flight for that long, like every year. Days on end, yeah. And then just wondering how long until the next one. In June 1995, after repeated parole hearings, the board informed Jerry Brudos he was no longer eligible for parole due to his complete inability to show considerable

evidence of rehabilitation. They said, this is the state board chair, Marva Fabian told him you will be in prison for the rest of your life and there will be no future parole hearings. Icon. But Jerry did try to appeal before the parole board every two years, despite them saying this, and despite never demonstrating even an ounce of remorse for his crimes. And it's like, that's all you have to do. Yeah. Now, I'm glad he was incapable.

Yeah. On March 28th, 2006, Jerry Brudos died in the infirmary at the Oregon State Penitentiary after a long and terrible battle with liver cancer. Karma. His death was a big relief to many of the victims' families who lived with constant anxiety that you just never know that they're going to let him out for something. Jan Whitney's sister, Cindy Elliott, told a reporter, I'm feeling relief.

You hate to say you're glad that someone is dead, but my family believes it should have happened years ago. And to that I say, fuck yeah, it should have. And you don't have to feel bad at all. Nope, he took your loved one. Fuck that guy. And he was a blight on humanity. And continued to terrorize your poor family.

I don't think she should feel bad one bit. He wouldn't tell people where like Linda Slauson's family never had her body to bury, never had her anything of hers to say goodbye to. And he loved it. Devastating. Yeah, he did it. It was his last little power trip he could take. Right. And he took it to the grave. Fuck that guy. Unreal. What a douchebag. What a wild story. I never, I don't know if I knew all the details of that, to be honest. He's really bad. Yeah. Like he's a really bad one.

Yeah. He's a piece of shit. And I'm glad he's dead. And we're glad to be rid of him. Yeah. Bye. Rest in distress, Jerry. Truly.

Don't rest at all. No. Be tormented for the rest of your life. Yeah. Your Jerry. Truly. Don't rest at all. No. Be tormented for the rest of your life. Yeah. Your afterlife. Yeah. Wow. Thanks for that.

Yeah. Well, if you want a palate cleanser, go buy tickets to that insidious event because that's fucking sick. Yeah, because that sounds awesome. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird as Jerry Boudos because, wow, if you're listening to the show and you're doing that, yuck yuck yuck, get out of here, bye! You're gross.

Ew! I'm sorry. Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.