Morbid - Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

When thirty-four-year-old St. Paul housewife Carol Thompson was murdered in the spring of 1963, her entire neighborhood was shocked by the evil that had invaded their middle-class neighborhood. As far as anyone knew, Carol was a happily married mother of four who appeared to have it all, but the cruel brutality of her murder suggested someone had hated her enough to kill her.When investigators began to dig deeper into Carol’s life and background, they found the truth was that, far from the happy façade she showed the world, Carol Thompson’s life was anything but happy. In the weeks that followed her death, investigators would uncover an unexpectedly complicated conspiracy involving several well-known criminals, all leading back to the one person no one wanted to suspect.Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1963. "Slaying details related in court." New York Times, November 27: 49.—. 1963. "Woman is linked to 'hire' murder." New York Times, November 5: 17.2016. A Crime to Remember. Directed by Tony Glazer. Performed by Chloe Boxer and Christine Connor.Cesnik, Jim. 1963. "'Cotton' Thompson--as father, friend." Minneapolis Star, June 25: 1.Letofsky, Irv. 1963. "Never an acquittal vote." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), December 7: 1.Letofsky, Irv, and Jim Cesnik. 1963. "City man held in Phoenix in Thompson slaying case." Star Tribune, April 20: 1.Minneapolis Star. 1963. "FBI to check policies on Mrs. Thompson's life." Minneapolis Star , April 3: 1.—. 1963. "St. Paul mother 'critical' after stabbing in home." Minneapolis Star, March 6: 1.—. 1963. "Thompson arrested in wife's slaying." Minneapolis Star, June 21: 1.Presbrey, Paul. 1963. "Thompson killing gun identified." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), April 10: 1.Roberts, Sam. 2015. "T. Eugene Thompson dies at 88; crime stunned St. Paul." New York Times, September 6: 28.Romer, Sam. 1963. "Interview with captured suspect." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), April 20: 1.Rudick, Irvin. 1963. "Anderson told Sharp he slew Mrs. Thompson." Minneapolis Star, April 23: 1.Star Tribune. 1963. "Police seek clues in St. Paul slaying." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), March 7: 1.—. 1963. "Police want more talk with victim's mate." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), March 23: 1.—. 1963. "Statement also lists his assets." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), March 27: 1.Thompson, William. 2007. Dial M: The Murder of Carol Thompson. Nepean, ON: Borealis Books.United Press International. 1963. "Thompson trial told of insurance." New York Times, November 6: 29.Young, Douglas. 1963. "Husband of slain St. Paul woman explains $1,061,00 in insurance." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), March 27: 1.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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This is Morbid. And I don't know, it's before Thanksgiving, but for you guys, it's after Thanksgiving, I think. Isn't that weird? So we have not given thanks yet. Thank you. But because you have, I hope you had fun. Yes.

And I hope you ate all kinds of yummy food. Ooh, scrumdiddlyumptious. I'm salivating just thinking of our food that we're going to eat. And we're thankful for you. Yeah, we love you. We'll be thankful for you. Thank you for being our listeners. Yeah, we'll stay thankful for you.

It'll be a whole thing. It's gonna be a whole thing, guys. It's so beautiful. You know what I'm thankful for? Sushi. There you go. I just had some. Good for you, man.

And you had a strawberry hostess cupcake. I did. Have you guys tried those? I didn't know they existed. She broke it out and it's me, her and Mikey in the pod lab today. And she said, we can split this into three. And I said, no need. You can split that in half and you took the journey with me. You did. That's cute. Wasn't bad. It was just one of those things.

Are you like, all right. Yeah. Okay. I felt like it wouldn't mix well with my sushi and dumplings. I was like, I think I'll try that at a later date if ever. That's a great, I think you should try it because I think you might be pleasantly surprised. Okay. But not with sushi. Right now I'm in a place of those little Debbie Brownie Christmas tree things, cakes. Oh yeah.

Like not, I don't, I'm actually not a big fan. Don't you say it. I'm not. Of the vanilla. Don't you say it. I'm not. Of the vanilla? Of the Christmas tree cakes. I don't like too much frosting, and the middle is sometimes too much for me. And I fear that you're going to throw something on me.

I like the brownie better. Doesn't John also? Yeah. And both of you can get the fuck out of here with your shenanigans. That just means more for you. It sure does. My kids like the vanilla ones with me. You know what? I don't dislike them. Like I'll eat one every now and again. But if I had to pick on a deserted island, you can only have one brownies all the way.

I hate that. I'd also pick brownies over cake, like in general. Wow. Yeah. This is like, I'm feeling so betrayed lately from my, the people I love the most, what they love and what they don't love. Why? What else happened?

Because you just said that. And then John, we were finishing up Follow the House of Usher. The other night, Mike Flanagan. I want to watch that. And then John, we were finishing up, Follow the House of Usher. The other night, Mike Flanagan. And he was like, yeah, I'm not like really into this. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? And he wasn't into Midnight Mass either. And he was like, and then he said the words and Mike Flanagan, if you're listening, Mike Flanagan, if you're listening, you have a fan in this house. It's me. But John was like, yeah, I don't know if I really like Mike Flanagan stuff. And I was like, I don't know how to accept that. Did you say, I don't know who you even are. I'm just not sure how you watch two things with Kate in it. Yeah. That is made by

with Kate in it, that is made by Mike Flanagan. You said two things with Kate? Kate Siegel. Kate, okay. His wife, who's in both of them. Okay. Who's a phenomenal actress. Okay. She's just chef's kiss.

And tell me you're not really into them. I don't understand that way of living. We're gonna try again because I refuse to accept it, so I think I'm too forced to watch Fall Down Semester again. You know what, though? I feel like that would be akin to Drew turning to me and telling me that he didn't like Bravo all of a sudden, and I'd kick him out of our house. It's rough. And then you sit here and you tell me...

I didn't say I didn't like them. ...that you do not appreciate... No, no, no. ...the vanilla Christmas tree. At one point, you said, I don't really like them. You said those words. I heard you. Yeah, you quoted me correctly.

That made me upset. The second time around. No, I shouldn't say I don't really like them. I just don't prefer them. I prefer, my preference is the Brownies, you know? Right in. What's your preference? We should do a social media poll.

Oh Lord. Alleyda's like, no. I'm like, no. I'm like, no, I'll lose. America's sweetheart will win the Brownie crusade. That's fine, more for me, like you said. Exactly, like you said. Like I said.

I said it. I said it. All right. I think that was an unhinged enough intro. I do want to see Fall of the House of Usher. Fall of the House of Usher. I highly recommend it guys, if you haven't watched it. I'll wait to watch it with you.

It's a banger of a miniseries. It's only eight episodes. And he is... Mike Flanagan's brilliant. And so is his wife. I'm willing to try his stuff. I don't think I've ever seen any of Mike Flanagan's stuff. I think you would dig it.

I really do. I feel like we usually have... Yeah. I wouldn't say similar taste because you don't like the things that I love. But I feel like you- TV show wise I'm saying. He just has a way.

The atmosphere that he creates in his shows and movies, I think you will appreciate in a big way. I've seen the trailer of Fall of the House of Oshima. I always feel like I'm going to say it wrong. And I liked the trailer. I was intrigued. I think you'd be into it. But I don't think Drew would like it. And that's tough because we watch TV together.

And right now, if you're a Bravo head, oh my God, all the shows are on, honey. Oh, man. All of them. Real Housewives of Beverly Hills just came back. First episode, absolutely obsessed. I do not condone smoking unless your name is Dorit Kemsley. Have you seen the picture of her lighting up a Virginia Slim

and just driving around? No. She's like going through a divorce and it gets outed and she's getting chased by paparazzi and she just lights up a Virginia Slim. And everybody knew that Dorit smoked, like she's been caught by paparazzi before, but she's never done it on the show.

And she just had such a fuck it moment. Yeah, she doesn't give a shit. It was iconic. It was the smoke heard around the world. There you go. Don't smoke it kills. It does. So anyway, I think I said that was chaotic enough of an intro, but then I made it more

chaotic. I love that. Well, now we're going to get on to the case. This case is absolutely bonkers from start to finish. Oh, I'm excited. Yeah. I will let you know like right off the top of this. It's very brutal in the beginning.

But it's called morbid. It is. So this is the murder of Carol Thompson. And it all started on the morning of March 6th, 1963. Ruth Nelson was just sitting in her living room in her St. Paul, Minnesota home. She was catching up on the morning news and she heard what sounded like somebody lightly knocking on her front door. So she went to the door and she pealed, appeared through the small window and she couldn't see anybody, but she decided that she should just open the door to be sure. And when she opened the

door, she saw that lying at the foot of the steps was her neighbor, 34-year-old Carol Thompson, who lived just a couple houses down. Temperatures that morning were freezing, but Carol was only wearing a light robe, she had no shoes on, and the upper part of her body, from her head to her chest, was absolutely drenched in blood. And Carol looked up, and in a voice just above a whisper, she looked at Ruth and said, help me. Oh, that's so haunting. And she's like, Ruth has just started her morning, just, you know, probably made a cup of coffee, watching the news and opens her door up to like

her beloved neighbor too, close and only 34 years old. Yeah, super young neighbor. So Ruth called out to her husband and son who were still home, they had been in the kitchen, and they moved Carol inside the house, laying her gently on their rug. And while Harry Nelson ran to call the police, Ruth and her son just tried to comfort Carol however they could. Oh, shit. And one of the two ended up asking Carol what happened to had somebody attacked her who had, and in a faint voice that suggested she was losing consciousness really quickly, she answered, a man did it. And Ruth asked what the man's name was, and she thought that Carol said Johnson, but by then Carol could hardly speak, even so she was just speaking over a whisper, so Ruth would never be quite sure what the name was. Now, moments later, another neighbor, Dr. Fritz Pearson,

arrived. His wife had been watching everything that morning through their living room window and suggested that he go over to help because she was like, something is like very wrong over there. Yeah. So Pearson instructed the Nelson son to go get some wet towels and he carefully started wiping away copious amounts of blood. It was clear to everyone that somebody had attacked Carol and had beat her really badly about the face and head, which is where they assumed that the blood was coming from. But when Carol dropped her hand away from her neck, Dr. Pearson noticed a large stab wound,

and it seemed as though that the broken knife blade was actually still embedded into her neck. Oh, my God. Yeah. Ruth Nelson later said, I know Carol very well, but her face was covered with so much blood that even I didn't recognize her. So Harry Nelson's call to the St. Paul police came into dispatch at about 9 0 7 a.m. Just think of how early first thing in the

morning, at which point he reported only that his wife had discovered a quote badly injured lady on their doorstep and just that they needed help immediately. It's unclear what Sergeants John Mercado and Roy Shepard were really expecting when they got to the scene, but whatever it was, it was not really likely that they had pictured just a housewife and neighbor just drenched in blood. Later Mercado wrote in his report, the wounds were small and appeared to be stab wounds, but in truth, Carol had been injured so badly that it was impossible to tell where all the blood was coming from. She had so many wounds.

So as Dr. Pearson continued providing first aid, the officers tried to get any information out of Carol herself. But by then she was barely conscious and she wasn't able to communicate at all. So it was Ruth Nelson who explained how she came to found Carol that morning. But nobody had any idea what happened to her, like how she got that. Can you imagine just finding someone like that? You have no clue what happened. No, and she can't tell you that's the worst part.

So the ambulance arrived a few minutes later, and the EMTs were directed inside. And in their report, one of the EMTs described the extent of Carol's wounds as far as he could see at the time, writing, we observed that the woman he could see at the time, writing, We observed that the woman had numerous wounds about the forehead, a wound bleeding quite heavily in the right eye, and three or four wounds in the neck on the left and right side. We also noticed a shiny metal tip or what appeared to be a knife blade protruding from

the left side of the neck. Who the fuck did this to her? Just wait. So Carol was taken to Anchor Hospital by the ambulance while the officers called for additional support and started their investigation. From what the two initial investigators could tell, Mercado and Shepherd,

it seemed like Carol had actually crawled or dragged her way down the street, just trying to find help. Oh, that like shatters my heart. Yeah, and just like this quiet 1960s suburban neighborhood and she can't yell because she's been stabbed in the fucking neck. So when they conducted their door-to-door canvas

of the neighborhood, Fritz Pearson's wife, that was the doctor's wife who had sent him over, and a handyman who had been working on their house told investigators that she had seen who she now knew to be Carol slumped in front of another neighbor's house just a few minutes before she made her way to the Nelson store. So she had to like stop on her way there. Yeah, of course. Which is, I just can't imagine looking out my window and seeing that. No. And also like, did you tell anyone? She's the one that sent her husband over. Oh, she's

the one who said like, I think something's going on over there. Yeah. So I think she saw, I think probably what happened was initially she saw somebody like in the street and was like, who is that? Like what's going on? And then look, like looked further and saw her get to the Nelsons and realized who it was. It was like, all right, there's something wrong here.

So when investigators arrived at Carol Thompson's home about just a block away, nobody was home and the front door was locked. So the officers ended up entering through a side door that was open and that opened up into the kitchen. For the most part, the kitchen actually seemed to be pretty undisturbed, except there was one drawer where silverware and knives had been pulled out and its contents were spilled to the floor. But then they saw a trail of blood that led them from the kitchen to the front door where they discovered a large pool of blood. And laying in the blood, investigators

discovered three unspent live rounds from a pistol, what appeared to be the handle of the knife from Carol's neck, and several pieces of hard white plastic of unknown origin. They like couldn't figure out what this plastic was. Once they confirmed that there was nobody in the house, the attacker wasn't there. A team of investigators started searching the Thompsons' two-floor home, hoping to get some insight into what happened at all.

Now, the first thing they noticed was that the front door had been locked from the inside with the safety latch, like a little chain latch, but the door had been pulled so hard from the inside that it had actually come away from the frame slightly. Wow. So somebody was trying to get out desperately. Also discovered on the floor by the door,

just under the rug was Carol's wedding ring. Ooh. Which is just like. That's very chilling. Yeah, like what? Now upstairs in the bathroom, investigators found several smears of blood in the sink, which led them to believe that whoever had attacked Carol definitely tried to clean up

after themselves before leaving. And they also saw that there was about six or seven inches of water in the bathtub. Huh. It was just so weird. From there, they followed the blood trail back to the primary bedroom, which had been completely ransacked. It looked like somebody had been looking for something in particular in a big hurry. And while it was a mess, they couldn't help but notice

that there was no rhyme or reason to the chaos. So they thought it was possible that Carol was attacked, like maybe, like I always say, some kind of robbery gone wrong. That seems staged though. But it felt way too staged, they thought. And on top of that, nothing appeared to be missing. Yeah, that's the stage. gone wrong. That seems staged though. But it felt way too staged, they thought. And on top of that, nothing appeared to be missing.

Yeah. I mean, they just found her diamond ring by the front door. Yeah. Whenever it's like no rhyme or reason to the ransacking, it's definitely staged. And nothing is missing. And nothing is missing. Like, hello? Like, come on.

So there was ample evidence of a struggle, obviously, having occurred throughout several rooms in the house. And it seemed like Carol had fought back or at least tried very hard to get away. But despite that, they couldn't really determine the sequence of events and they really couldn't tell where the assault had actually started. Yeah, because it seems like chaos. It's chaos and everything is just a mess. And it kind of just looked like once the attack started, the attacker and the victim ran all

throughout the house into several rooms and probably even doubled back actually more than once. So they canvassed the houses or the house on both sides of the street for several blocks. But other than the Nelsons and the Pearsons, nobody had seen or heard anything out of the ordinary that morning.

Given the time of day, a lot of families had gone their separate ways by the time the attack would have happened and wouldn't be back until like late that evening. That's true. It's like work, school, errands, all that stuff. Exactly. Other than a few droplets of blood on the sidewalk, there was no evidence that a crime had ever even occurred out there or that Carol had crawled her way to the neighbors for help.

Wow. Which when you think about how badly she was injured is insane. That's incredible. Yeah. So while they were in the process of searching the home, Carol's husband T Eugene Cotton Thompson. So his name is T Eugene Thompson, but he's better known as Cotton. That's what I thought. That's what I think of. While the detectives were searching the home, he arrives home. Cotton arrives home. He had been at his law office downtown when he got a call shortly after 9 a.m. from the Nelson's son, Sydney, saying that there had been an accident involving Carol. Sydney didn't tell him too much because obviously he's like, you have to drive here.

Yeah. And he's like, and I don't even know much. And nobody even knows exactly. So he just said there was an accident. By the time Cotton got the call, Carol was on her way to Anchor Hospital. But instead of going directly to the hospital, Cotton drove back home and actually even stopped briefly at the Nelson's house before then going back to his own house, which was definitely a little weird. And like, I'm sure you're not thinking straight, but it was something that

people took note of. For sure. I can understand that. Yeah. So he told the police he had left the house that morning around 730, and he was taking his son, Jeffrey, to school, and then he went to his office. So typical morning. He said around... And also a well-trekked alibi. Uh-huh. Around 830, he called the house to confirm with Carol that he would be picking up the kids at school. And he said, other than that, that was the last time he had spoken to her. He said, at that time, nothing seemed out of the ordinary.

She didn't sound distressed, nothing. But by the time they finished the search of the house, detectives had actually discovered very little in the way of evidence. And they really didn't have any leads to indicate what exactly happened in this house. Obviously, the attack had carried out through multiple rooms, covering the walls, the curtains, the rugs, everything in blood. But as for why and how it all happened,

they were at a loss. But based on all the evidence, they theorized that Carol had been hit at least once with a piece of large, heavy rubber tubing, which they found on the kitchen floor. But they believe that she was also likely assaulted with the butt of a gun. Because the handle of which was broken in the process,

leaving all these shards of plastic by the door. Oh, that's what that was. Yeah, and she also sustained several stab wounds from what they concluded was a small paring knife. Holy shit. And that's the handle that they discovered by the front door. Damn. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I love the burr months, December, November, all the burr months because they're so cozy. For some, wrapping up in a blanket with a mug of hot chocolate or

watching a movie with a family is the best way to spend the month of December. You know what is another great way? Therapy. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort that never goes away, even when the season changes. I love therapy. I think therapy is awesome. I have benefited so much from it.

So many life lessons and just major breakthroughs I have made in therapy have shaped me into who I am today. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. And all you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash morbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com slash morbid. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here.

Discover the year's top audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in your favorite genres. From memoirs and sci-fi to mysteries and thrillers, from romance and well-being to fiction, Audible's carefully curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best of the year in audio entertainment. Like an almost unbelievably star-studded production of George Orwell's 1984, which both honors and reinvigorates the terrifying classic. It's one of the best original dramatizations that we have ever heard. Or romance that hits the spot, like Emily Henry's funny story, heartfelt memoirs like Supreme Court Justice Katanji Brown Jackson's lovely one, listen to the year's best fiction like The Women by Kristin Hannah, and first of all ever, it's brilliantly subversive James.

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She had 25 separate cuts on her head from a blunt object and several of those cuts had caused a quote, skull fracture, brain hemorrhage and contusions on the brain. This is so vicious. It's vicious. And she also had two stab wounds on the brain. This is so vicious. It's vicious. And she also had two stab wounds on her neck. When she got to the hospital, she was completely unconscious

and was, quote, without measurable blood pressure. Wow. Yeah. Surgeons did their best to revive her, performing a tracheotomy. They also did an external heart massage, which I've never even actually heard of that. That's when they literally, like, with their, they will literally get the heart pumping

with their like physically pump the heart. I didn't even know that was an option or like a thing. Surgeons are wild. And they also did what's called a trepanation and that was to relieve the pressure on her brain because I think she had, she had like bleeding. Like drill into the skull. Yeah, exactly. But their efforts were futile, unfortunately,

and she was pronounced dead a few minutes before 1 p.m. That's awful. Which when you think about that, she arrived on the doorstep around 9 that morning, like so badly attacked. She lived until 1 p.m. 1 p.m. Like she fought hard. She must have been in agony though.

That's what kills me. You just hope that she wasn't since she was unconscious. I hope she was in complete shock. Yeah. So in 1963, violent home invasions were pretty rare in the US, and especially in the middle of the day in a middle class neighborhood. This is not something that happened a lot.

And when it did happen, the motive was typically robbery. But in this case, nothing had been stolen. And aside from the bedroom, it really didn But in this case, nothing had been stolen, and aside from the bedroom, it really didn't even seem like the killer had gone through the Thompson's belongings at all. It kind of seemed like whoever attacked Carol had gone to the house to do exactly that. And given the amount of violence done to her, the objective clearly seemed to be murder. But the question that they had to ask was who would have wanted Carol Thompson dead? So going back a little ways, Carol was born and raised in St. Paul and she had spent her

entire life there. Like she's lived her her entire life. She was really well liked. She was a mother of four. She was super, super active in her kids lives. She was the den mother for her son's Boy Scout troop. She was a leader of her daughter's Brownie troop. And when she wasn't coordinating the lives of four really, really active children, she was organizing events at their church. She was the president of the Women's Association, a member of the church choir, and she even taught a kindergarten class. Oh my God. Like, Carol is a... The most wholesome woman ever.

And like, what a, what a badass. Oh, yeah. Organizing four very active young children's lives. That alone is the, is hard to do. And then you add on like being the den mother, like being a part of the Boy Scout troop, a leader of the Brownie troop. Teaching stuff at church. Teaching a kindergarten class, being a member of the choir, a president of the Women's Association. Like, she's literally everything.

And she also, on top of all that, I think I mentioned it later, she was taking classes too. Yeah. At the same time. She's... What a badass. Yeah. I can barely handle my shit, and I don't have half of that. I don't even have kids, and I don't know what I'm doing half the time.

I'm like, that's... That's wild. That's a lot. Exactly. She was... She was was liked by everybody and she had all that going for her. So the police are at a loss. You're like, who doesn't like Carol? Everybody does. And she's like a young mom, you know? Like what's she getting into? She's not getting into organized crime here or something, I assume. No, not at all. No, she's not. So frustrated by the lack of evidence and any leads at the scene, investigators started questioning the family and the neighbors. As a criminal defense lawyer, detectives actually had to wonder if one of Cotton's previous clients had been

maybe disgruntled and wanted to get back at him by targeting his wife. How awful. Yeah, but I mean, it happens. So I can see why they started there. And cotton handed over a list of previous clients, but he also insisted that he couldn't think of a single one of them who had been dissatisfied with his legal services enough to act like that. Yeah, like do something. I mean, I feel like you would have an idea of somebody was that disgruntled. Definitely. Because you would think that there would be like steps leading up to that. You would at least feel like, you know what, this guy was really angry and like I could, and he's dangerous.

And probably like maybe like made like a verbal threat at the very least, you know? So investigators also started digging into Carol's background, of course. And in a lot of ways, she was pretty, I don't want to say ordinary, but like she led an ordinary life. Like nothing stuck out to them. Yeah. According to friends, she was very much an extrovert, much known and much loved by everyone, they said. Carol.

Other friends described her as somebody who was, quote, interested in everything and constantly learning. I love people like that. I know, she seems like. I love people like that, that just want to keep doing stuff. Yeah, I feel like Carol seems like somebody we definitely would have gotten along with. One friend told a reporter she was always trying to gain more knowledge.

And in fact, like I mentioned earlier, the reason that Cotton had planned to pick up the kids from school that afternoon was because Carol was taking night classes and she had plans to go to class that evening. Yeah, on top of everything else she's doing, she was going to a class. Now by most accounts too, Carol and Cotton's marriage had been a good one. They always seemed happy together, people said. People said they were an anchor in the neighborhood. They were organizing parties all the time, events all the time.

She is. Like things looked really good from the outside. Carol met Cotton when she was a sophomore in college, and 10 months later she dropped out of school and they got married. And then a few months later, Carol got pregnant with their first child. And she really started on her career as a wife and a mother, which was very of the time. This is the 60s. And she approached that with the same enthusiasm that she did everything in life.

She was super excited, like fully devoted to everything, kids and husband. Carol seems like the type of woman who, when she does something, she fucking does it. Yeah, she doesn't half ass anything. Carol whole assed everything and you can see that. Even more than whole assed if that's possible. In the public and even in the press too, she was described as the pinnacle of a 1960s housewife. But in private conversations- I was waiting for a but.

There's always a but. Because I was like, you can't tell me this is just the way it is. No. In private conversations, the interesting thing is I'll tell you what happens, but it's not even that like on Carol's end, you're like, I don't know. Like it doesn't explain this necessarily. In private conversations with friends and neighbors, detectives were starting to develop a little bit of a different picture of Carol. It was true, she was a very devoted mother, but not everybody believed that she had abandoned her own dream so willingly, and not everybody was convinced that Carol and Cotton's marriage was a good one. I did wonder when you said, like, she dropped out of school and they got married.

And she still has this love of learning, obviously. Yeah, and it's like, obviously, that absolutely, if that was her choice and she was happy with that choice, then more power to her. Yeah. I just wondered. I had like a weird little pinch. Well, it seemed sudden too.

That's the thing. But obviously, it was just rumors. But some of the women in the neighborhood speculated that while she might not have been having a full blown affair, Carol did have a friend that everybody referred to as Big Red. Whoa. Who seemed more interested and attentive of Carol than was considered appropriate at the time. Nobody said they saw them doing anything like

scandalous or anything. Because he seemed to like Carol. He seemed to pay a lot of attention to her. Okay, well that's not her fault. No, and she's beautiful if you look up a picture. It makes sense. So investigators soon learned that Big Red's real name was Kenneth Moran. He was a local man in his early 30s. He met Cotton and Carol when he sold them some windows and doors about a year earlier. And he and Carol shared a lot of interests, so not long after meeting, Kenneth kind of became part of

their social circle. According to him, he and Carol would visit museums together, go to galleries. Sometimes he would drive Carol in the kids' places when Cotton was unavailable, but he insisted they were just friends, there was nothing more to it. And he claimed he actually hadn't seen Carole since the previous November and didn't know anything about her murder. He also had an alibi for the day of the murder, which was confirmed by his boss, so he was quickly ruled out as a suspect. So I wonder, because I don't know if it's going to go any further than that, but I'm like, it sounds like they were just like good friends. Yeah.

Like legitimately good friends and maybe on his end he liked her. I think they definitely like thought the other was attractive probably. And like, I think it was also really tough to have a friend of the opposite sex at that time. I was going to say this was such a different time too. And especially in like a small town and a close-knit community. For sure. I think they probably were just really good friends who like maybe found each other attractive,

but it doesn't really sound like across the line at all. So even though they had ruled out Kenneth Moran as a suspect, his presence in Carole's life definitely contributed to an emerging portrait of probably an unhappy woman in an unhappy marriage to some degree. I can absolutely see that. Yes. And in fact, further interviews with friends and neighbors revealed that Carol's relationship with Kenneth

was a source of frustration for her husband, Cotton. Ah. And one afternoon in November, he got home and he found Carol and Kenneth just talking in the backyard and demanded, he walked back out there and demanded that Kenneth leave and not come back. Like he was, I think he was starting to probably hear

people talking and I'm sure his pals were teasing him that kind of thing. So he was like, stay the fuck away from my wife. And you're like, you know, I kind of get like, I can see, cause like you think there's varying degrees of appropriateness when it comes to a relationship like that when you're buried especially. So it's like, I can understand that from an outside point of view, it can be like, oh,

you know, they're just like, that's a nice friendship. And then I'm like, but you know what, if you're in the relationship, it's probably going to look a little different. Well, like, and this is just me, like to each their own. But if I knew that Drew had a close woman friend that he was like driving our kids around, I'd be like, I'm not super comfortable with that. Yeah, I too would have a problem with that. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So for her part, Carol told a friend, and this kind of explains what you were wondering earlier. She said, quote, she did not dislike Kenneth and was attracted to him, but loved only her husband and children. So she was like, yeah, like he's handsome. And like, I like being around him,

but I only love my kids and my husband. She just sounds like the purest, like truly. Yeah, she really does. Now, the other thing was the blow up in the backyard had resulted in Cotton becoming more attentive to her and the kids, which she appreciated. She's like, you know, it got a little fire under his butt. She's like, I miss Kenneth. Like he was cool to hang out with, but this kind of went down.

Yeah, this is great. It was a testament to Carol's popularity too, that so many people were willing to cooperate with investigators and that they were offering whatever insight they had to her character. But their descriptions of her life and personality, even the gossip, really didn't do much to point them in the direction of a killer. If anything, the interviews just confirmed detectives' earlier feeling that Carol Thompson was the last person anybody would have wanted to see dead. Yeah.

Or murdered even worse. Like everyone on the outside of her life seemed to really like her. Yeah. Like she didn't really have a problem with anything. She wasn't beefing. With anyone. Yeah. So in the absence of new leads, investigators turned their attention back

to Cotton, of course, the husband, who did look particularly suspicious after detectives discovered multiple life insurance policies. Oh, I knew those were coming. Life insurance policies in Carole's name from multiple different insurance companies. Oh, you gotta go. That's it. You gotta... I don't know how this ends. So I'm not gonna sit here and I'm not gonna dog on somebody.

You say that it's definitely them, but... You can. I can? You can. Okay, yeah. I think it's pretty. Come on! I think it's pretty. Different life insurances from different companies and this happens? Yeah.

Yeah. Like, what? About a week after the murder, it came to light that there were two term life insurance policies in Carole's name, three accidental death policies in her name, Oh, no. and Carol's name, three accidental death policies in her name, and three group term life insurance policies covering each member of the family, all totaling more than a million dollars in coverage back then, which today would be $10 million.

More than $10 million. Wow. That would make my red flags go flappy, flappy, flappy. Yeah, 100%. So there's eight, eight insurance policies. That's bonkers. Like that's insane. That goes crazy. That goes absolutely bonkers.

The news of the policies obviously caused quite a stir amongst those who knew the family. As it should. Since that much coverage seemed pretty fucking excessive by any measure. In his statement to the press, Ramsey County Attorney William Randall told reporters, Thompson is the applicant for a beneficiary of the policies, which are due to expire next month. Oh. Yeah. Are you telling me?

I'm telling you. This piece of fucking shit. Yeah, you did something. So the Discovery raised some new questions about Carole's death and investigators obviously wanted to talk more with Cotton. But rather than address the matter with the police privately, Cotton Thompson released his own statement to the press via his friend, Douglas Young. Douglas. He didn't even go do it for himself. He had his friend do it. Don't involve Doug. Yeah, don't involve Douglas.. Douglas. He didn't even go do it for himself. He had his friend do it. Don't involve Doug. Yeah, don't involve Douglas.

In the statement, Young laid out a detailed tally of the insurance policies in Carroll's name and he included many, many lengthy specifics about the payouts and the purchase prices. Just like a very unusual amount of information that most people wouldn't understand or really give much of a shit about. Yeah, it's a great way to confuse people and make them not want to think that you're the guy. It was strategic for sure. Now, as for why he purchased so much insurance,

Cotton said, we had no debt, bills, or indebtedness to speak of, and we felt that we could readily afford up to $200 a month on insurance as to each of us. It's like, I would get... How do you have like 55,000 insurance policies? That's the thing. Like I get like having a life insurance policy.

Absolutely. But I don't understand having eight. Yeah, I don't understand that. Most are like, damn, like you got really good deals on them. According to Cotton, they did have the children in mind when they purchased the insurance and they just, he said they hadn't intended to keep it beyond the children aging into adulthood. Which like, okay, yeah, that all sounds great. Yeah.

Why do you have eight? You just don't need eight. That's the thing, like you're not answering my question. Yeah. Cotton. The most is six. Why do you have eight? There are six family members, six policies, the end.

And I'm pretty sure one policy can cover multiple people. Yeah. I don't know, that could be wrong, but. Well, it's like, why? I just, I don't know. Like that just, it seems excessive. It absolutely does. So the explanation seemed kind of reasonable, even if the number of policies and coverage

were excessive. People were willing to like look past it a little bit. Yeah, I mean, it's not like totally out of the realm of like, you know. It's just a little like normality, but it's like that's but it's still excessive to me. It raises your eyebrows. It does. But what investigators still found unusual was that Cotton also hadn't been forthcoming about the insurance policies when they asked him immediately after Carol's death.

He didn't say anything about these. They found them. Which it's like... That's a little weird. That's real weird. When they ask you and you're just like, I don't know. But at the same time you're like But you also know it's gonna sound bad. And remember he's an attorney. Yeah, so he knows that's gonna make him but also

It's like they're gonna find them. Yeah, that's the thing Just be upfront and be like listen, I know you're gonna find these things and you're gonna question me about them So let me get ahead of it. I think he thought that he was smarter than everybody else. Yeah, he thought he could outrun this. Yeah. And they also thought it was weird that when the details of the policies came to light, he chose to send a prepared statement to the press instead of just talking to the detectives who were working on his wife's murder case. Yeah, that tells you a lot. You know? In fact, according to the St. Paul Police Department and the County Attorney's Office, neither received a copy of the statement that had been given to the press and they only learned about it when it hit papers on

the morning of March 27th. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's shady behavior. So they didn't see any of that coming. And then there's this like lengthy ass statement. Yeah. So the original policies appeared to have actually been taken out by Carol or at least

somebody who signed Carol's names to the form. Interesting. But investigators decided to send the documents to the FBI for handwriting analysis to confirm that it actually was Carol's handwriting. And in the meantime, they continued their investigation, but openly admitted that they had really made very little progress in the weeks following the murder. Police Chief Lester McAuliffe said, We have a great deal of circumstantial evidence, but the case isn't complete by any means. We need a break to crack the case. And little did they know that break was a

coming. It was going to find them. Oh no. So in their struggle to make any headway in the case, detectives revisited the scene and revisited the evidence that they found in the home. For the most part, the evidence collected from the house was pretty much what you would expect to find from a home, except for the pieces of plastic that were recovered in the pool of blood by the front door. I love gift giving so much. It just like warms my heart to give somebody a really awesome gift that I know they're going to love. It's great when you can get somebody a gift they wouldn't necessarily get for themselves, that little bit of luxury that they don't know they're missing.

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In the days that followed the murder, investigators theorized that that plastic had come from the hand of a pistol, which the intruder obviously used to beat Carol. That caused the pistol grip to break and fall on the floor, and that's where the plastic came from. But the problem was they didn't have the gun that the pistol grip had come from, and they actually weren't even sure what kind of gun it was at all. Wow.

So they didn't have a lot to go on. But despite the lack of information, they held a televised press conference where they showed those broken pieces of the pistol grip and they asked for the public's help identifying the weapon. And within a week, the St. Paul police got a call from a man named Wayne Brandt. He was a St. Paul salesman who claimed that the gun they were looking for was his 7.65 millimeter Luger pistol, which had been stolen from his apartment on February 14th, just a few weeks before the murder. Holy shit.

He was certain that this gun was his because he actually recognized the pistol grip as one he made for himself in a shop class. Stop it. Yeah, several years earlier. According to him, the gun was one of several items stolen from his apartment, along with a television, a diamond ring, and a typewriter.

Poor guy. Stealing all his shit. And now he's got to call and be like, yeah, that gun piece found at that murder scene, that's my gun, but I promise you, I wasn't there. Now he's got to go through the whole rigamarole. I know, I can't imagine. And good for him for being like, yeah, that's mine,

because some people wouldn't. I know, a lot of people would be like, I'm not getting wrapped up in that. Right? We love a good Samaritan. Yeah. So a few days later and by chance, a lot of things in this case just came together by chance, which I like to believe is my girl, Carol up there. The universe is working for her.

Yes. So police arrested a man named Willard Ingram during a holdup, like during a legit holdup. Ingram had a long criminal history and he was actually willing to provide information about other crimes in exchange for leniency with the whole holdup case. And it just so happened that he had information to share about the pistol used in Carol Thompson's murder. He admitted that he actually robbed Wayne Brandt's apartment and stolen the gun, but insisted he had nothing to do with the murder itself.

And he had given the gun to his friend, Norman Mastrian. Oh my goodness. The sisterhood of the traveling gun. It's about to go crazy. You have no idea. Oh man. There are so many people involved in this. It blew my mind.

So he steals the gun, but then he gives it to his friend Norman. Yes. So Norman Mastrian was a 40-year-old former prize fighter with mob ties. Oh. And he was mostly known to St. Paul police for kind of like a series of petty crimes. That was until he became the prime suspect in a 1962 kidnapping and murder of a local bar owner. What the fuck?

Yeah. Investigators actually hadn't been able to find enough evidence to convict him for the murder, and he was let go, but pretty much everybody agreed he was the killer. Holy shit. They just didn't have enough. He's just walking.

Mm-hmm. So on the morning of April 19th, a group of detectives knocked on his door with a warrant for his arrest, but he refused to let them in or come outside. He wasn't letting them in and he wasn't going out there. That's not shady at all. No. So after speaking with the county attorney, the detectives were actually given the authority

to take him by force. So they kicked down his door and they put him under arrest without further incident, luckily. And once they were at the station, he said he didn't know anything about Carroll's murder. He refused to say anything more without a lawyer. Now, obviously this was frustrating, but by then investigators had already found a second witness. A man named Henry Butler, who was now in custody pending trial for a robbery. Is everyone okay? No. The answer is no.

Criminals everywhere. Criminals in your hair. Maybe criminaling. Everybody stays criminal in this time of St. Paul. So Henry Butler claimed that he had seen Norman Mastery and in possession of the stolen pistol, but he said he also saw Norman give the gun to another man. This gun is changing hands yet again. And this time it goes to Dick Anderson, yet another criminal who had

left town a few days earlier. Well, and this seems shady too. So the connections that led from Willard Ingram to Norman Mastrian to Henry Butler, those all made sense. They all had very lengthy criminal histories. They were all known to associate with other criminals. It was like a criminal fucking enterprise. Yeah, they just stay criminal-ing. Yeah, they stay criminal-ing, like you said. But Dick Anderson, on the other hand, he made less sense.

He was a twice wounded military vet who had fallen on really hard times and he turned to petty burglary just to try to get by. But he seemed to be a far cry from the more hardened criminals that he was currently being associated with. But once the warrant for Dick Anderson's arrest went out, St. Paul police got a tip from a reporter that he was actually staying at the Tropic Motor Hotel in Phoenix, Arizona. So when Phoenix police arrived at the hotel, at the motel actually, they found Anderson in the lobby, luggage in hand, ready to check out, presumably to avoid arrest.

Whoa! He had definitely been tipped off. Yeah. It turned out that the fucking reporter who gave the tip to police about him being in Phoenix in the first place, actually conducted a phone interview with Dick Anderson and let him know that the police were looking for him in relation to this murder

and this whole slew of shady characters. What a dumbass. Right? Like, are you serious? Like, what are you looking for here? And you're fucking up the investigation shady characters. What a dumbass. Right? Like, are you serious? Like, what are you looking for here? And you're fucking up the investigation. What are you doing? Exactly.

Like, you're playing both sides. Well, I know what he's looking for. He's looking for a byline. Exactly. So Anderson told the reporter that he was only in Phoenix for a few days for vacation and that he didn't know anybody named Norman Mastrian. He didn't know anybody named Henley Butler or Willard Ingram. He repeated these denials to the Phoenix police once he was arrested and said he would sign

the extradition papers. But as the papers were being drawn up, he changed his mind and instead contacted a prominent Phoenix criminal attorney to rep him. Wow. Yeah. He then said, I have no knowledge of the crime back home, only what I read in the newspapers. It's a big stink here. Okay. This murdered woman is a big stink here. I would say so.

Yeah. So while detectives in St. Paul waited on Anderson's extradition hearing, they started interviewing his friends, including the man who had actually been arrested with him in Phoenix, a man named Richard Sharp, another character. Another guy. Like Anderson and the others, Sharp was a known criminal. He had actually fled to Arizona with Anderson to avoid prosecution for a recent burglary that he was involved in.

Can all these men stop stealing other people's shit? They literally cannot and will not. Yeah, sticky fingers, Magoo gang here. But like the others, he was willing to exchange information in order to get leniency on his own shit. So in a 23-page statement given to the police, Sharp told investigators that Dick Anderson was lying. He said Dick Anderson actually was the one who murdered Carol Thompson.

What the fuck? And that he needed Sharp to contact the quote unquote payoff man on his behalf. Shut up. He was waiting for his money. According to the statement, Anderson told Sharp that Norman Mastrion had paid him $3,000 to kill Carol Thompson. What? Yeah.

So it literally just all went full circle. Holy crap. Now investigators actually did find that Norman Mastrion had paid Dick Anderson to kill Carol Thompson. But what they couldn't figure out was why some small-time criminal with mob ties would want a St. Paul housewife dead. Like how did that connect? When I said earlier, like I'm pretty sure she doesn't have connections to organized

crime. She doesn't. Whoa. But somehow they know about her. But it's just like how did it end up here? Right. So they're sitting there trying to figure out exactly what you just said, and they get another lucky break when they arrest yet another motherfucking criminal, Sheldon

Morris, who was a local cab driver and friend of Norman Mastrions, who claimed he knew where Dick Anderson had disposed of the rest of the pistol that they were still looking for. Shit. The stolen pistol. Under threat of prosecution as a co-conspirator in the murder at this point, Sheldon Morris led detectives to a remote location in the woods where the gun had been tossed. Wow. And they found it.

Shut up. Yes. So now with the murder weapon in their possession and the murder suspect on his way to St. Paul from Arizona, investigators were really close, were really, really close to closing the case on Carol Thompson's murder. They knew that Norman Mastrion had received the murder weapon from Willard Ingram. He's the one who stole it in the first place. So Willard Ingram breaks into the house of the man who had made this pistol. And then he gives it to Norman Mastrion and then Norman Mastrion gives it to Dick Anderson. And he also, along with the gun, tells him he promises to pay him $3,000 to kill Carol.

$3,000 to take a human life. Yes. But- Can you imagine how excited the investigators felt after going through this whole thing and having no idea, getting this fucking gun, this murder weapon in the middle of the woods. Like, can you imagine how it must be the most insane feeling to finally get there? They literally started with like next to nothing and they asked the public for help and this guy like thankfully comes forward and is like, yes, that is my gun, but it was stolen. But to pull that thread.

And then they track down like what, how many, like four or five different criminals and local criminals in the area. Exactly. That's what I mean. Like they pulled that thread and kept pulling it and to end up with the actual murder weapon in the middle of the woods is wild. And crazy how like all of these people were willing to turn on each other because they all they lucked out because they all had cases that they wanted to get.

Yeah, they wanted leniency on exactly. So it was just like lucky strike after lucky strike. Seriously. So they knew all of this now, but they were still missing the last piece of the puzzle that would, you know, wrap this entire story together, make it make sense. They needed to know who hired Norman Mastery in the first place, because he didn't know Carol.

Why would he want her dead? Where is this coming from? So just like they had done earlier, detectives went back to the basics of the case, and they looked for anything that would connect Norman Mastery and to the Thompson family. And that's when they found that list of previous clients that Cotton had given them at the start of this whole investigation. And of course it included a familiar name, Norman Mastery. And so there's no disgruntled no former client. No, there's a client that you felt so comfortable with precisely pre fucking. So after Mastery

and was arrested that previous year on the suspicion of the kidnapping and the murder, he consulted with Cotton Thompson about potentially suing the county for false arrest. Even though everybody was pretty convinced that he did this, he was so ballsy that he was willing to sue the county. Luckily, the suit never went forward, but it was the only connection they could find between the two of them. The last piece of the puzzle finally fell into place when St. Paul detectives were able to get Dick Anderson back in custody in Minnesota. Cause remember he was in Phoenix, but they, they sent him on over. They extradited him. No, for some reason I have such trouble with the word extradited. Extradited. I like, I can say it in a conversation, but when I look at it, I can't say it how I'm supposed

to. I have words like that too. Yeah, it's so weird. So they get him back. Initially, he stuck to his story. He denied knowing anything about the murder. He didn't know any of these people. Why am I even here?

Who, me? Where am I even? What? I didn't steal the cookie from the cookie jar. No, not me. That's literally all I could think of the entire time I was going through this. He's just like, no, we're on the same page. But by late June, he finally broke down and confessed and told them everything they wanted

to know. According to Dick Anderson, he had been hired by Norman Mastrand to kill Carol, but it was Cotton Thompson who had arranged the entire hit. Fuck you, Cotton. Her husband. According to Dick Anderson, he'd been given instructions to sneak into the house through the side door before dawn and wait in the basement until everybody had left the house.

He had this motherfucker come into his house while his children were still in this house. Four children. He had a mobster with a fucking rap sheet. Yup. Sneak into his goddamn house while his kids were in there. Yeah. Never mind what he did to Carol. Yeah, exactly.

Dick Anderson doesn't have mob ties. It's Norman Mastrion who has mob ties. Dick Anderson. Dick Anderson is like the guy who they were like, this doesn't even make sense that he's connected to all these criminals, because he's like a petty thief. Exactly.

So he's the one that you wouldn't even, my goodness. You wouldn't even expect him. That's the thing. And he's a brutal fucking monster. Who knew? Exactly. There's so many people involved in this that it's so hard to keep track of everybody, but he really is the last person that they would've expected.

Yeah, he's the one that they were like, why is this guy connected to all this? He's literally like a military vet, like not tied up in the mob, not tied up in just petty shit. Exactly. So yeah, he has this guy just fucking sit in his basement while his kids are getting ready to go off to school. And his wife, you know, doesn't know, has no idea what he's capable of. Yeah. Yep. Wow. So messed up. So the plan was that cotton would make a phone call to the house once he got to work, which would be Dick Anderson

signal to act because he would hear the phone ring. And then he would know that everybody except Carol was out of the house. So that morning, Cotton filled the bathtub with six or seven inches of water. And the plan was for Dick Anderson to strike Carol on the back of the head with a heavy piece of rubber hose, which they hoped would knock her unconscious. And once she'd been disabled, Anderson was to place her body in the bathtub, making it seem like Carol had hit her head getting into the tub and drowned. Oh, so he really put some thought into this. Oh, he did. Because the accidental death would have triggered the double indemnity clause

in several of the insurance policies, thus paying up the higher amount. Oh, so he was hoping this would look like a total accident. Yeah, it's god awful what happened to Carol, but it's also like, yeah, that's why you don't hire somebody to murder your fucking wife, dude, because it's not going to work out for you. Nope. But unfortunately, like we just said, things did not go to plan. So after Cotton placed the call to the house, Anderson started going up the stairs from

the basement, but the stairs were creaking as he walked. So he was nervous that the noise was going to give him away. So he waited a minute or two. And during that time, Carol went back upstairs to lay down in bed, which sounds like something she probably never did. She was so busy all the time, but she just goes back to her own bedroom and Anderson appears in the doorway of her room. So she panicked, assuming that it was a robbery, and she jumped out of bed, which he then immediately hit her on the back of the head with the hose, but it didn't disable her like they hoped it would. Instead, Carol fought back hard, and she was actually able to knock him to the floor, and she made a break for the stairs.

Oh, I wish she got out. And she stopped quickly to grab her robe so that she wouldn't run out of the house indecent. Oh no. Yeah. Anderson caught up with her in the hallway, but she was able to escape him again and she ran for the front door. But when she reached the front door, she found that it had been locked with a chain lock. Holy shit. When you hear why this was locked, it's going to break your heart. So as she fumbled to

get the chain off the door, Dick Anderson obviously caught up with her and pointed the gun at Carol. Now still thinking that she was being robbed, she took her diamond ring off her finger, her wedding ring, and offered it to him. But he responded by pulling the trigger of the gun. To both of their surprise, the gun jammed, sending him into a panic. And that's when he started beating her with the gun so aggressively that the pistol grip broke and fell to the floor. Holy shit.

It was also at this point that those three rounds from the clip came loose and dropped to the floor. So that's why they found those unspent clips. Damn. Now, when the beating didn't appear to have killed Carol, he went to the kitchen and grabbed a paring knife from the door, which he used to stab Carol until the handle broke. Now, finally convinced that she was dead, he went upstairs to the bathroom where he tried to wash the blood off his hands and arms. And he went to the bedroom to stage the scene to look like a robbery.

And while he was staging the scene, he heard a noise downstairs and ran to look by the door. And that's when he saw that Carol was gone. So she most likely actually played dead to make it seem like... So she could escape out the front door. Exactly. Like she thought him as hard as she did and then had the whereabouts to pretend she was dead so she could get away. That is horrifying. So panicked when he saw that she was gone, he stopped what he was doing and he fled the house from the kitchen door

and got the fuck out of there. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science, to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about. Each week, on redacted, declassified mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories. 100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners, but as assets, to advance U.S. intelligence during

the Cold War. These aren't just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow redacted, declassified mysteries with me, Luke Lamanna, on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen ad-free, join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Now, this is gut-wrenching. Years later, Jeff Thompson, Cotton and Carole's son, would recall that on the morning of his mother's murder, his father instructed him to put the chain on the front door before they left for school.

Oh, what a piece of actual fucking shit. He had his son do it. You put that on your kid? Yep. Like, fuck this guy into oblivion. And Jeff even said he thought it was strange because they never changed the door. And he said if it hadn't been locked, obviously his mother would have been able to escape her attacker. He said, I had never done that before. I haven't forgiven my father.

And you never should. Never. Fuck that guy. Never. Like, why can't you just, I don't want you to do any of this, but you put that on your fucking son, you can't even just go do it. Like, you're making him a part of this. He had a man, a criminal, who he has no idea what he's capable of hiding his house while his kids are

walking around upstairs. He has zero moral compass. To involve your kids like that is so, so messed up. What a piece of garbage. So on June 21st, 1963, you will all be very happy to hear detectives arrested Cotton Thompson in connection with the murder, labeling him as the payoff man in the conspiracy. Because remember, they were looking for the payoff man. When he appeared before the judge for his arraignment, Cotton, quote, looked haggard, had tears in his eyes, and his voice cracked as he answered the judge's questions.

Oh, fuck you and your tears. Yeah, get fucked. The news of Cotton's arrest obviously shocked the friends and neighbors of the Thompson family. One neighbor said, there was no conflict between the Thompson's recognizable or known to their closest friends. And others recalled how, quote, he and Carol never missed a Sunday taking the kids to church and how Cotton was active with Jeff's scout troop.

All of it, like everybody was shocked. Even the most obvious mode of the large insurance payout even didn't really make that much sense to everybody. Because remember, he's a successful lawyer. He's making like $40,000 a year back then, which today is more than like $400,000 a year. Yeah, like come on. Yeah, he's like essentially making a doctor salary. Yeah. So it wasn't like he was in desperate need of money. But in reality, the motive for Carole's murder had pretty much been staring them in the face since the beginning of the investigation.

There were so many claims that they were this ideal couple, but it seemed like the neighborhood gossip had been right all along. Cotton and Carole's marriage was on the rocks for a long time. Author William Sponson said, there were all kinds of things that wouldn't jive with Cotton's idea of a wife and mother in 1963. Before they were married, Carole had obviously big dreams and she envisioned a very exciting life for herself. She wanted to go after all her interests, all her passions, but her marriage and obviously the quick arrival of children pretty much sidelined all of her goals and required that she turn her attention to supporting her husband's ambitions. Yeah.

Eww. But regardless... It's the perfect time for that too. It's 1963 especially. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. But regardless of how she felt about having to prioritize her responsibilities as a wife and mother, like I said in the beginning, she approached all her new responsibilities with like, open arms. She was happy to do everything she had to do. And by all accounts, she was a great wife, she was a great mother.

But the longer they were married, people said the more unhappy Carole had become. That author, Swanson, said, Cotton was a tough, self-absorbed character. And soon it became clear that he was intent on doing whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted to. He was having affairs with other women, and he was just completely indifferent to Carole's wants, Carole's needs. Wow. So he's just like a literal slimy piece of fucking dung on the bottom of an elephant's foot. Yeah. I would say like he's even lower than that, honestly. Later, their son, Jeff, would

say, I know my mother knew about my dad's affairs. She was saddened by a lot of his behavior. So it would not surprise me if she was to reach out to another person. Which honestly is probably why she was so close with Kenneth Moran. I'm sure she just wanted somebody to be there for her. It doesn't even really sound like they were having any kind of like, almost an affair. Someone that pays attention and is kind to her. Of course that other person was Kenneth Moran. They had shared interests together.

They gave a shit about each other. And you know, nobody really knows if there was an affair or not. But it seemed pretty obvious to everybody that there was some kind of connection to each other. And that was until Cotton put an end to that relationship. Which makes me even angrier that that motherfucker was out there doing everything he wanted and he was being that possessive. And here I was being like, oh yeah, you know, like I guess when you're in the relationship,

but he was doing whatever the fuck he wanted out there in those streets. Yeah, whoever and whatever. Asshole. Exactly. She's just a male friend and you're literally just a friend. Fuck you, Cotton. But the final straw, at least as far as Cotton was concerned, came just one day before Carol was murdered. Apparently

that afternoon, seemingly out of nowhere, Carol turned to her daughter Margaret and asked what she would do if she went away for a while. Like, what would you do if mom went away for a while? And Jeff Thompson remembered this happening and he said, Margaret was very surprised and concerned and the thought was that she was planning on leaving my father. Looking back on it, I hope she was. However, she would have been foolish to tell him. And that's like his son. I want to give Jeff a hug. I know I do too. Now, nobody knows if Margaret said anything to her father about her mother planning to leave or if he just came to that conclusion on his own. But either way, it

seems that Cotton Thompson knew or strongly suspected that Carol was most likely planning on leaving him. Yeah. And I mean, those policies were set to expire the following month. So he was, it's either act now or don't act. Exactly. So he quickly made sure, made plans that she would never get out of this marriage. Which is, it's like, you don't want to be married either. You're going here, there, and everywhere with everyone. Well, and he wants all this fucking money. It's like, you're making that money. That's the thing. I'm like, why can't you do it at a certain point? What are you doing with it? Exactly. Why do you need more? You just don't.

It's not like you're struggling. It's not like one of these situations where it's like the family is struggling financially and they're like, last, you know, and it's obviously, it's never okay. But in those situations, there's a desperation factor that like plays into it. That wasn't even here. That's not even here. He just wanted more. Yeah, I'm like, you have four kids. Holy shit.

They all are doing what they wanna do as far as activities, it sounds like. You guys are throwing parties, you're throwing events. Like, what do you need more for? Why? Fuck that guy. But after several delays and a change of venue, Cotton Thompson finally went on trial

for the murder of his wife on October 27th, 1963. He pleaded innocent. And in his opening statements, prosecutor William Randall laid out the state's theory about Thompson's motive for the murder. He said, the motive was not only to enable Mr. Thompson to collect the more than $1 million in life insurance he had recently taken out on his wife's life, but also to free him up to see other women. So just leave.

Just leave. But he wouldn't have gotten his money. They'd all be better off without you anyways. Wouldn't have got his money, so he wouldn't have been happy. You have plenty of money, you piece of shit. Seriously. But Randall pointed to Cotton's long history of infidelity, and one particular incident a year earlier, where he apparently told his mistress, just give me 11 months, implying that after that timeframe, he would be able to marry her.

Girl. Just give me 11 months. Why the fuck are you being so specific? Yeah, it's like, girl, come on. Like, first of all, stop fucking a married guy. And second of all, when he's saying when he's giving giving you a time frame, you got to wonder. You got to wonder what that time frame implies. You sure do. Testifying for the prosecution, one of the several insurance agents told the jury about the, quote, sense of urgency Cotton conveyed to them when he was buying up all of these policies. Eleven months before Carol's death.

Cotton told one agent that he had a, quote quote unquote premonition in which Carol would meet with a tragic accident. And no one thought to tell anyone? No. Guys, we got to use the stuff between your ears here. Your gray matter, as Papa would say. What are you doing? Yeah.

He said that was why he was in such a such a hurry to get all these policies. So some guy, some high powered defense attorney, who's like fucking everything that with two legs is out here telling you that he's got to get 85 insurance life insurance policies you're not far off on his wife, his young wife and his young healthy wife, his family too and he's got to do it quick, quick, quick, quick. And you know why? He had a vision. You know, it's so weird.

I just have this weird vision that she's going to meet with a tragic accident and die. And none of you sat there and said, you know what, we might want to call someone and maybe put some tabs on that guy because I feel like that's shady behavior. No, they were just like, sure, sign it here. I'll get my check. Okay, cool. It's all money. Everyone's just like, whatever, I got paid.

Yep. Money talks. Damn. No, this is what the defense went with. The defense explained that cotton was just an eccentric when it came to insurance. No, no, he's just eccentric. Nope. That's not one of those things. He's just kooky. He just, you know, he just fucking loves insurance. Loves insurance. Yeah. You guys know Jake from State Farm. Cotton is kind of like that. You know, cotton, insurance is my kink. It's his thing. That's not okay. Nobody's eccentric when it comes to life insurance policies. An eccentric for life insurance.

Like what? Hello? Are we really just giving them that? So we're really just like not taking all the responsibility off of him. Ridiculous. So pointing to the excessive coverage he'd purchased for his home and car, they continued to say he was an eccentric, but those amounts were also

double the average coverage at the time. So he really did put like excess coverage on everything. He is eccentric when it comes to home insurance and life insurance. But if the urgency and amount of coverage Cotton had purchased on his wife's life weren't compelling enough, the testimony of the state's chief witness, Dick Anderson, definitely gave insight to Cotton's cruelty. On the stand, Anderson recalled the attack on Carol and he said, she managed to get out of the tub

so I knew I had trouble. I was instructed either way so I went to pull the gun." So, Cotton told Dick, no matter what happens, you pull that trigger and you kill her. Wow. He is so fucking cold. I don't care what happens. Yeah. He then explained, Dick explained to the jury in no uncertain times that he had been hired by Norman Mastrian, who was hired by Cotton. Also, according to Anderson, there was supposed to be a second murder. Anderson quoted Norman as telling him, the Brod's father will be next in six or seven months. Apparently, they were going to kill Carol's dad as well. Apparently, this was Cotton's plan to gain an even greater access to Carol's family fortune, which she would have inherited upon her father's death.

I am? So if she's dead and her father dies, cotton and kids get everything. So this guy is a literal fucking monster. Yeah. Like no amount of money would ever satiate that man. That's like... What is wrong with you?

Like what is wrong with, that's more money than you'll ever be able, like what is wrong with you? And I just with you? That's more money than you'll ever be able to... Like, what is wrong with you? And I just, I never understand valuing that much money over human life. Like, and especially, and we always say this, I feel like when it comes to a spouse murdering another spouse, but it's like, you take vows, you walk down the aisle with that person. In this case, you procreate multiple, multiple times with this person and you don't feel anything. That's the thing. I'm like, you don't feel any connection to them. Drew and I get in a little tiff and I'm like, I'm the worst terrible woman in

the world and I feel so bad. Like what? You don't feel anything. That's what I don't get. Like, I'm like, I could never, I can't imagine causing harm to John. No. Or having someone else cause harm to John. Emotionally, physically, anything. Anything but for money. Like I, and it, like, I just can't, I can't even picture, I can't even picture that thinking that money is going to like, like that you're gonna hold that money and feel good.

Like, what is wrong with you? I think he would have... You have to be dead inside. I think he absolutely is. You have to be dead inside. This guy has to be dead inside. 100%. Wow. And also, like, to kill your wife, one, is absolutely just, like, unthinkable.

Then to kill her grieving father six or seven months later. First of all, you're going to make him wait six or seven months. And then secondly, you're also killing her father. Like what? So her poor mother has just lost her daughter and her husband. Yeah. Jesus. So Cotton Thompson did testify on his own behalf, essentially telling the court that he had nothing to do with his wife's murder and that the extent of his relationship with Norman Mastrion was

just an advisor one year earlier. But he didn't really say much else to convince the jury that he had no connection to the murder. Instead, the defense just argued that the jury couldn't trust a chain of circumstantial evidence and the testimony of criminals who had all turned on each other in exchange for lighter sentences. But on December 7th, 1963, the jury deliberated for more than 26 hours before emerging to announce that they found T. Eugene Cotton Thompson guilty of the first degree murder of his wife, Carol Thompson. And when asked about how they arrived at the verdict, one juror said, there was no one

primary reason for our verdict. We thought of the case as a whole. And after waiving his right to a delay in sentencing, Judge Rolf Thawson immediately sentenced Cotton to life in prison, which at the time was the required sentence in cases of premeditated murder in Minnesota. And in theITCH. ROT. And in the months that followed Norman Mastrian and Dick Anderson were both tried and both were found guilty of first degree murder. Meaning they both also got life sentences. Yeah, as you should. Now, Cotton appealed his conviction, of course. Shut up. He appealed to the state Supreme Court in 1966, arguing for a new trial on the grounds that he had been convicted on false testimony provided by several of his criminal co-conspirators.

But the Supreme Court upheld the lower court's decision and denied the motion for a new trial. He did end up being paroled in 1983 and tried to reconnect with his family, but he was never very successful. Jeff Thompson later said, it's very hard for a child to have a parent in prison, but once he got out, we never had much of a relationship. I think based on my experience with Minnesota's criminal justice system, that the jury did the right thing. Wow. Jeff is like a very, he's a really good person. He's elevated higher. Yeah. Than, than, you know, most people like that is. That's Carol's son. I was going to say that is Carol's son.

That's not Cotton's son. I mean, I did. But like that's, that's Carol. Yes. Now, just for kicks on August 7th, 2015, on his 88th birthday, Cotton Thompson died in his sleep after struggling with failing health for several years. And if that's not the universe saying, ha ha ha ha ha. Especially on his birthday.

Cause I was like, I do hate that he got to die peacefully in his sleep. And I hate that he lived 88 years. Like that's a long ass life. He got to like at least be out. Yeah, that pisses me off. Yeah, he got a lot of time on the other side. Rest in fucking distress.

And the universe is always gonna get you. She's gonna die on your birthday if you use some fuck shit. Okay? Wow. I told you, it's one of those cases that just starts and doesn't stop. It doesn't stop. Like not one.

And poor Carol. I know. And her kids, and that's the thing, like her kids just went to school that day. Yeah. And had no idea. And Jeff, poor Jeff, his dad told him, lock that door. And then he spent the rest of his life thinking what if I hadn't locked that door like why did my dad make me lock? Like I can't imagine the psychological damage that would do to you

That's the thing like you'd be constantly thinking like why didn't I just ignore that but it's like but it's like why would you? ever ignore and especially in 1963 You're not disobeying your father when he tells you to do something. So definitely not. Like that was just, you did what you were told by a parent who was supposed to be a safe place and that you were supposed to feel comfortable doing what you're told to. And why would you question that? You know, like he said, like they never locked that door.

So he did kind of question it, but he's not going to out loud question it. And he's not going to sit there and think, okay, he's having me lock that because he's going to have my mom killed and he doesn't want her to escape. Like that's not going to out loud question it. And he's not going to sit there and think, okay, he's having me lock that because he's going to have my mom killed and he doesn't want her to escape. Like that's not going to be in your head. You can never come up with that. That's your worst nightmare. That's an awful, awful case. It's such a sad case too, because you in the beginning, like when I started reading about

this case, I was like, oh, like she's going to live, she's going to pull through. That's what I thought. It's just so sad. But she was a fighter. She fought hard to think that she literally dragged herself or crawled a block away after sustaining what she sustained. Running around that house multiple times, getting out of the bathtub. Oh my God. She's unbelievable.

Truly. Damn. What a tragic case. It really is. But, um, as always, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But it's weird that you go and take out eight life insurance policies on your wife because somebody these days is going to say, hey, that's weird, and you're not just eccentric, and I'm going to call somebody.

Yep. And if you work at a life insurance company, Call somebody. Call somebody. Say, hey, this guy just took out eight life insurance policies on his wife and that's kinda weird. And he needs them within 11 months because he had a premonition that she's gonna die

unexpectedly in a tragic accident. Yeah, and obviously I know they're not all from the same life insurance company, but still it's fucking weird, okay, bye. I'm sorry. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant.

When TV producer Roy Raden was found dead in a canyon near LA in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder.

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