Morbid - Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

After his arrest, investigators would learn that, by the time he appeared on the game show, he was also a killer. In the year that followed, Alcala would go on to murder several other women until he was finally caught and convicted for his crimes. At his trial, Rodney Alcala was found guilty of eight murders, among other crimes, but he is suspected of several other murders, perhaps as many as one hundred or more.Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1980. "Forest worker tells of grisly body find, fingers defendent ." Daily Breeze (Torrence, CA), March 23: 7.—. 1980. "Witness in Alcala trial admits lying." Los Angeles Times, March 26: 44.—. 1980. "Jury deliberate murder charge." Oakland Tribune, April 30: E3.Brown, Doug. 1980. "Jury asks for the death penalty." Los Angeles Times, May 9: 32.—. 1980. "Prosecution rests case in penalty part of Alcala trial." Los Angeles Times, May 8: 63.CBS News. 2024. "Rodney Alcala: The Killing Game." 48 Hours . Dunn, Edward. 1977. "Oneida woman slain in L.A." Post-Standard (Syracuse, NY), November 15: 1.Esquivel, Paloma. 2010. "Alcala gets death penalty." Los Angeles Times, March 10: 72.Falcon, Gabriel. 2010. Convicted serial killer won on 'Dating Game'. March 10. Accessed November 18, 2024. https://web.archive.org/web/20240814201903/https://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/08/dating.game.killer/index.html.Hicks, Jerry. 1986. "Alcala again given death sentence in slaying of girl, 12." Los Angeles Times, June 21: 50.—. 1986. "Alcala asks jury to spare him, insists he isn't a murderer." Los Angeles Times, June 19: 141.Jarlson, Gary. 1979. "Hunt for missing girls spreads to Oxnard." Los Angeles Times, June 28: 10.—. 1979. "In search for girl's killer, time is the principal foe." Los Angeles Times, July 14: 22.Kaye, Peter. 1981. "The long, painful path to justice." Daily Breeze (Torrence, CA), June 18: 19.Kirkman, Edward. 1971. "Fear of a new sex killing spurs 6 on trail." Daily News (New York, NY), August 8: 75.Levenson , Michael, and Eduardo Medina. 2021. "'Dating Game killer,' who preyed on woman in 1970s, dies in prison." New York Times, July 26.Liff, Mark, Joseph Martin, and Paul Meskil. 1977. "Attorney urges FBI to hunt daughter." Daily News (New York, NY), July 31: 3.Los Angeles Times. 1980. "Alcala defense wtiness's story repeated to jury." Los Angeles Times, April 30: 42.—. 1979. "The Southland." Los Angeles Times, June 22: 30.—. 1977. "Police now see link in strangulation murders of 10 LA women." Sacramento Bee, December 1: 22.Moynihan, Colin. 2012. "Convicted killer pleads guilty to 2 New York murders." New York Times, December 15: 20.OC Weekly. 2010. Rodney Alcala's murderous romp through polite society brings him to an Orange County courtroom again. January 21. Accessed November 19, 2024. https://www.ocweekly.com/rodney-alcalas-murderous-romp-through-polite-society-brings-him-to-an-orange-county-courtroom-again-6402172/.Pelisek, Christine. 2010. "Rodney Alcala: the fine art of killing." LA Weekly, January 21.Reyes, David. 1986. "Man convicted second time in murder of girl." Los Angeles Times, May 29: 43.Sands, Stella. 2011. The Dating Game Killer: The True Story of a TV Dating Show, a Violent Sociopath, and a Series of Brutal Murders. New York, NY: St. Martin's.Secret, Mosi. 2011. "After decades, charges in 2 Manhattan murders." New York Times, January 27: 24.Smith, David. 2024. "The terrifying true story behind Woman of the Hour." The Guardian, October 22.The People v. Rodney James Alcala. 1984. 36 Cal. 3d 605 (Supreme Court of California, August 23).Weinstein, Henry. 2003. "New trial, new charge in old cases." Los Angeles Times, June 28: 32.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, weirdos, it's Ash here, ready to share a little secret. Have you heard of Wondery Plus? With ad-free episodes and one-week early access, it's like having an all-access pass to our lighthearted nightmare. So come join us on the dark side and try Wondery Plus today. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a Morbid Network Podcast. In the depths of an Atlanta forest, a clash between activists and authorities ends in Network podcast. episodes of We Came to the Forest ad-free on Wondery+. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash.

And I'm Alaina. And this is Morbid. I was like, ash. It sounded like I had really big veneers in. This is ash. This is ash. This is ass, you guys. This is ass, you guys. No, we wanted to start out again.

I don't know when this comes out. You know, that's going to be a running theme for a few months. I don't know where then this is going to come out. But we just wanted to say to everybody in the LA area. Yeah, we're so sorry that we are so sorry. And it is literally the scariest thing to watch from the other side of the country. I can't imagine I can't imagine being there. It's so apocalyptic looking. It is. And it must feel that way to lose absolutely everything. Yeah.

And then to see firefighters are just on another level. Yeah, they truly are. What? And to see them stacking up photo albums like that. I was just gonna say that. It's gut-wrenching. It truly is. And to think that's like all some people

are gonna have left. It's a badass community though, it looks like. It absolutely is. And to think that's like all some people are going to have left. It's a badass community though, it looks like. It absolutely is. Because everybody's really pulling together and hopefully, you know, rebuild and get it all back to where, you know, some semblance of where it was. We're going to try to do something to help. Yeah, we're working on something right now.

We just don't want to say anything before we get the, you know, we don't want to say anything too preemptively. We're going to try to do something, but we just wanted to tell you guys like, we're thinking of you, we love you. We work with a lot of people in LA. We have friends in LA. We have loved ones there. So like, we're thinking of you.

Yeah, we love you. We're sending you good vibes and we're sorry. We are. I'm sorry that you're probably hearing this so late. Yeah, I was going to say, and I'm sorry if this sounds like weird coming weeks later, but we're still thinking of you. We just wanted to say something anyways, no matter how late it was.

Yeah, just so you know in the moment that we're thinking of you. But also, one thing we wanted to say before this began was like, we're so happy that you guys seem to really vibe with episode 638, I believe it is, our last episode, I don't know if it's our last, it's not our last episode. It's a few episodes ago.

I don't know what the fuck is going on, guys. I just know that you vibed with an episode, you vibed with the episode, the crash of Uruguayan air flight 571. That was a great story. It obviously was gut-wrenching, but I think people really liked the survivleness of it all. Well, and it seemed like you guys were,

like, first of all, thanks for saying, like, that was a great episode. I think Dave did an amazing job with the research on that episode. The story is just like such a harrowing story, and I was really excited to tell it in a way that was a little different and kind of didn't go so hard on the salacious, what people see as the salacious aspects of it.

Yeah, you highlighted more of the actual important details. But thank you for recognizing that and thank you for letting us know how much you liked it. That was very nice to see. And I think you guys really vibed with how it was an episode about people like coming together to overcome seemingly impossible odds and a terrible, terrible, horrible, no good situation that seemed to have no positive like silver lining whatsoever. But because they worked together and they stayed together, they were able to get out of it.

Topical. And I think that's important. Everybody work together. Let's all work together. Let's stay together. Let's be kind to each other. Let's take care of each other. And lean on each other.

That's all we're saying. We're not gonna get into a big thing. I'm just saying like, let's all just work together here. Yeah, definitely. Because look at what terrible situation these people were able to get out of just by never giving up, never laying down and accepting what they thought their fate was. No matter how hopeless they felt. Insurmountable the odds seemed. The word insurmountable is just popping up in my life

a lot lately. Really? And I just love it. I love words. I know, I do too. Like words are great. I know that sounds like a stupid statement. Well, you're an author, so it doesn't. But I just really like words. No, I do too. Certain words. I also get an email every day with a word of the day. If you'd like me to tell you about it later, I got you. Yeah. Let me just tell you about it right now. Tell me about it now. Maybe somebody else listening wants to get this email that's word of the day. Let me find it. It's fun. That's one of the reasons I because I'm telling you know, it's 2025. Why don't we just get like really vibey here for a minute? Because it's going to get really dark in a couple minutes. But 2025 guys, read, read a lot of books, get off of

social media, get off of the doom scrolling. It's turned into kind of a shit storm on there anyways. Read some books. I'm telling you, you're going to like, once you get in the vibe and you find a genre you like, or you find like an author you really like, or just a vibe of book you like, you're going to come out of each book being like, fuck, I'm one, I learned something, two, I felt shit, and three, you're gonna know new, different words. New info and different words. Like you're gonna come out of there with some vocab.

It's fun. Excellence. And that's fun. And then you feel like Thai and you just get to drop a new word. Yes. I love it. If you can't find me on Instagram right now, I ran for the hills. I am not on Instagram anymore.

Just unplug. I don't know. You know, I might go back. I might go back. I don't know where I just went with that. I might go back at some point, but it just was, it didn't feel great. And I was following people that I didn't make the choice to follow. So that was weird. That's the thing. So, but it's, you know what, this new year, I think, like we all, like especially in the pod lab, I feel like we all, and actually in this house, because like John was that way too, we all had these like, just thoughts of like, you know what, I'm unplugging. Yeah. I'm taking a step back from all this like, you know, internet, social media,

hellstorm that's happening and just enjoying the small things more. And I think everybody needs to do that a little bit. And grass. And grass. I'm going to go touch it when the snow melts. But it gives you more time to do things that make you happy and actually feed you. And speaking of things that make us happy, back to words. Hell yeah.

Today's word of the day is, I don't know how to pronounce it, I haven't listened, but it's ... Oh, it's bringing me to otherwise. Hell yeah. Today's word of the day is, I don't know how to pronounce it. I haven't listened, but it's, oh, it's bringing me to otherwise. Hello. It is. Sedulous. And that means showing dedication and diligence is an adjective. Is it sedulous or sedulous? It's sedulous. Oh, okay. I've never heard that word before. S-E-D-U-L-O-U-S, sedulis. What is this outlet that's sending you these words every day? Because maybe people want that. Word daily. That's very easy to remember. So word daily, I guess, if you want a word of the day. Things like that. They're going to make it. That's the thing. The internet can be great. And

these are the things that the internet is great for. Let's find the great thing. I love it. Yeah. So yeah, that was a lot of, you know, good stuff. Yeah. And here's a lot of bad stuff. I'm sorry. We're on part three. So the good news is this is the end. We get to see Rodney, peace the fuck out, go to jail, and then eventually die, which is awesome. He's going to shuffle right off this mortal coil. Get the fuck off this coil, Rodney. We were all behind him pushing him off. Bye. Bye. So quick recap of part two for you.

Rodney ended up serving less than three years for the attack on Tali Shapiro, which is fucking insane. And he was back prowling on the streets in no time with zero regard for being on parole. He had no regard for being on parole and parole had no regard that he was on parole. Which I think is why he had no regard for being on parole because if you don't see the parole people having any regard, you're like, why should I? There was just no regard to be found.

Yeah, the regards were in short supply back then. The regard was not in the room with us or anyone. No one could find it. In between brutal attacks and murders, he made his appearance on the dating game, which we've talked about a couple times. Horrifying. He left his lasting impression on Cheryl Bradshaw there, and even another contestant, one of the other bachelors. And if you look at him in those clips,

they were right on target. Dead in the eyes. You look at him and you're like, gross. There's something just gross about him. Skeevy. Yeah. And finally, he was apprehended yet again where he actually confessed to assaulting and raping a 15-year-old, Monique Hoyt, who bravely escaped and told police everything that happened to her.

Yet, for some reason, he was released on a ridiculous $10,000 bail instead of the prosecutor's $50,000 request. So his mother posted that bail and again, I feel like I've said this 400 times throughout the series, Rodney was back out on the streets. Yep. Insane. Yep. We're still really short on the regard. No regards. So a few weeks later after he posted bail and was back home with mom, he gave his notice to the LA Times where he was working, remember? Oh yeah.

So effective May 12th he would be unemployed and he told his employer that he wanted to focus on his photography and he was actually thinking of moving up north. Yeah you know he's an artist. Yeah an artist it's not that he's you know facing serious jail time or anything like that. No just artists.

While Rodney was finishing out his last days at the Times, 21 year old Jill Parenteau was settling into her new apartment in Burbank. She's super excited just to start her new independent life. A few months earlier, she had started a job as a computer key punch operator. She was making good money. She had everything going for her. She was just really enjoying, like I said, being out on her own, her independence. On June 13th, Jill's sister Dee Dee called to find out what Jill was doing that night if she wanted to hang out or something. But Jill said that she had a date to go to a Dodgers game with Dan Brady, and Dan Brady was somebody that she had known since high

school, so this wasn't crazy. But the next morning, Jill's friend Kathy waited by the phone to hear about the date. She was anxious to hear how everything went. They called each other to check in before work almost every single day, but Jill never called. So Kathy thought it was a little bit weird, but she assumed, you know, maybe Jill just went into work earlier that morning and I'll check in with her later. Yeah. But hours later, nobody had heard from Jill, which was very out of character and her friends and family were starting to get pretty concerned. So not content to just sit around and wait to hear something, her friend Janet Jordan went straight to Jill's apartment to check on her. Poor Janet. Yeah. Poor Janet. She had barely entered the apartment and

made her way up to Jill's bedroom when she saw Jill's body on the floor. She was lying face up, she was nude and she had been beaten severely. Janet just ran out of there and ran to the closest phone to call the police. Burbank detective Gordon Bowers was the first to arrive to the apartment and he was met by Janet, who was so upset that she could barely even speak. I, cause one of the things you have to think about is she probably thought, oh shit, the person's probably still in this house. Yeah the range of emotions and fear you would feel. Oh yeah, there's immediate fight or flight and flight would absolutely kick in. So she was so

upset she could barely talk. Additional officers arrived a few minutes later. And the first thing they noticed was that, and this is so fucking terrifying and creepy, the screen on the window facing the courtyard at her apartment complex had been cut vertically and horizontally, making a large hole so that like a person could fit through. Oh. Could literally just like open it up, spread it aside and just get right in. Holy shit. And then they also noticed that the light bulb in the stairwell leading to Jill's door

had been unscrewed. What the fuck? That's like strangers. Literally the strangers type shit. Inside the apartment, nothing appeared to be out of the ordinary, obviously, aside from what, you know, Jill being dead in the apartment. Her purse lay on the table next to her Dodger's ticket stub and program, and nothing seemed to be missing though. The medical examiner confirmed the obvious. Jill had been violently sexually assaulted. She was beaten. She was strangled. There was severe trauma to her nose, cheeks, her teeth, and even her head. And there

were visible ligature marks around her neck, which were caused by the cord from an electric blanket that had been twisted around her throat. He is so fucking like brutal. Like he's just so violent. Like it's the beating. STACEY And a lot of times it doesn't even seem like he came with something to strangle people with. He just finds something nearby. Because a lot of times it's like, you know, there are tights that they were wearing. And in this case, it's like an electrical cord blanket. She probably just had, you know, a heated blanket laying around and that's what he uses just on the fly. Cause I think it's like the beating he knows he's going to administer.

He doesn't need to bring anything with him. Yeah. That's so scary. It's he just incapacitates somebody and have to go find something in their own house, which is even like another level of terrifying. Now, nearly everything in the bedroom from the walls to the clothing scattered around the floor was splattered with blood everywhere. In the autopsy report, the medical examiner noted significant pulling or striking blunt traumas to the head by an

object broader than a hammer." Holy shit. So that caused extensive scalp hemorrhages. There were also, quote, deep scratches around both breasts, tooth marks and puncture wounds below the left nipple, and cuts on the left side of the left breast. He's like, he's seriously a wild animal. He is. When you really stop to think about what these attacks must be like. Oh, yeah. it is beyond your

wildest nightmare. He's rabid. Yeah. He doesn't even seem like a human. No. The ultimate cause of death was the ligature strangulation. So you imagine that, and I hate to even go further into this, but you imagine he is beating his victims viciously. He's attacking them with his teeth, with his hands, with some object bigger than a hammer. And the ultimate cause of death is strangulation. So they're alive while he's inflicting all that pain and just trauma onto them. Yeah. It's awful. The killer had also left fluids on and inside the body. And there was additional blood evidence found

on the window sill, leading investigators to believe that actually the killer had cut himself when he broke into the apartment. So at least that was good that they had bad evidence. Detectives in LA had barely started processing the evidence at this scene when on June 20th, a call came into the Huntington Beach Police Department. The caller, Marian Fraser, explained

that her 12-year-old daughter, Robin Samso, had left the house earlier that day, but she hadn't been seen or heard from since leaving her friend's house on her bicycle that afternoon, which is so typical. Yeah, of course. Just going out on a bike ride with your friend. At that time, it was very common for kids to be reported missing, only to turn up a couple days later though, having run away. But in his statement to the press, Lieutenant Bruce Young told reporters, Robin is a quote very dependable child who had no history of being a runaway and had never been in any trouble of this nature before.

This was not like her. A few miles from the glass spires of Midtown Atlanta lies the South River Forest. In 2021 and 2022, the woods became a home to activists from all over the country who gathered to stop the nearby construction of a massive new police training facility, nicknamed Cop City. At approximately nine o'clock this morning, as law enforcement was moving through various sectors of the property, an individual, without warning, shot a Georgia State Patrol trooper. This is We Came to the Forest, a story about resistance, The abolitionist mission isn't done until every prison is empty and shut down.

Love and fellowship. It was probably the happiest I've ever been in my life. And the lengths will go to protect the things we hold closest to our hearts. Follow We Came to the Forest on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of We Came to the Forest early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. In the 1980s, a rose swept the country. Hey Mike, I really like this white Zinfandel.

Well good, good. Now put it down, we're going to try another one. White Zin became America's top-selling wine. But most don't know that this sweet drink has a sour history. What began in 1986 with counterfeit bottles, A big fraud, a multi-million dollar fraud, sent investigators chasing one of the most powerful families in the business, the Lachartes.

But the closer the feds got to them, the more dangerous things became. It's a story of deceit, At the time I was paranoid. threats, You touch my kids, I will kill you. And murder. With a.22 caliber bullet to the head. What started with a scheme to mislabel wine spilled into a blood-soaked battle for succession.

Welcome to Blood Vines. You can binge listen to Blood Vines exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify. A few days into the investigation of Robin's disappearance, Huntington Beach Police got a call from Dana Krapa, a forestry service firefighter, who thought she might've actually seen Robin

on the day she went missing. According to Krapa, she was on her way to work that afternoon and she was driving up Santa Anita Canyon Road when she saw a Datsun F10 station wagon parked at a local turnout area. And she remembered the car because she had actually nearly collided head on with a similar vehicle a few days earlier, which was weird. As she got closer, she said she saw a dark haired man forcefully steering, quote unquote, a blonde girl into the woods toward a dry river bank. She said, she said it was less alarming than it was unusual.

What? So she kept, I was like, I feel like that would be- How is that not alarming? I feel like that would be both alarming and unusual. Yeah. So she kept driving and she ignored what she saw. It had completely left her thoughts by the time she reached her destination. That's wild.

And it wasn't until she saw the notices about the missing girl that she remembered the incident. At the time of her phone call, police had just reported that they were, quote, no further ahead in the investigation than they were a week ago. So the call from this forestry firefighter was the first real lead that they had. Lieutenant Young described the suspect as a quote, man in his thirties, five foot, 11 to six feet tall with collar length, dark curly hair. The description of that man seen by Krappa matched those given by Robin's friends who actually said a man had approached them earlier that day on the beach and asked if he could take their pictures. So all of the description of him, the man that Krapasa and the description by Robin's friends all are lining up. On July 2nd, William Popke, a member of the Forest Service

spraying crew, was clearing brush near the Chantry Flat Campground near the Sierra Madre foothills, and he came across skeletonized human remains that were scattered across the ravine. According to his report, and this is a little brutal, the skull was separated from the neck and the lower teeth were fractured. It almost looked to him like the individual had been struck in the face with a hard object. And she was 12. 12 years old. When the medical examiner arrived to remove the body he noted that the left foot and portion quote unquote portions of the hands were missing. Jesus christ. Yeah. By the time the body was discovered the scene had been thoroughly trampled by wildlife so that was going to explain some of that. But still investigators

found critical evidence near the body including a a cane-cut brand kitchen knife with blood droplets on it, and a beach towel with wipe stains of what was eventually determined to be Type A blood. Oh. Nearby, there was additional blood evidence found among a pile of rocks and leaves, but there was no clothing found at the scene other than one tennis shoe that bore the name Robin on the inside. Oh, God. than one tennis shoe that bore the name Robin on the inside. Oh god. Just one tennis shoe. The name in the shoe prompted investigators to check dental records of Robin Samso,

which would end up being a match for those remains. That's fucking terrible. 12 years old. 12 years old. The medical examiner would later conclude actually that the most likely cause of death in Robin's death was stabbing. Holy shit.

Yeah. Given the advanced decomp, it was pretty impossible for the medical examiner to determine if Robin had been sexually assaulted, but investigators in Huntington Beach strongly suspected that this was their killer's motive. Detective Ron Jenkins said, we're assuming Robin was sexually assaulted and this guy is going to do it again. Holy shit. Yeah. While the medical examiner had been unable to determine the exact cause of death, because he thought maybe stabbing, but he couldn't be sure,

investigators were treating it as a homicide no matter what. Jenkins told a reporter from the LA Times, I don't think a healthy 12 year old girl walked 50 miles to the hills and then just laid down and died. Uh, no. No. I think we can safely say that. Definitely not. And also, how crazy is it that while Rodney Alcala was working at the LA Times, these cases were happening. Like people were reporting on these

cases while he works. While he's working. Which is just nuts to think about. He probably loved it. Oh yeah, of course he did. I'm sure they were all talking about it and he was so excited about it. Now the strongest lead investigators had was the description of the man seen at the beach and then later with Robin near the area where her body was discovered. But the problem was that description also matched thousands of people in California and didn't really help investigators

narrow down their pool of suspects. Detective Jenkins said, I've had 50 calls from Laguna Beach to Santa Monica about who this guy is, since we put out the description of him. If I had 50 people, we could check all these guys in one day, but there's only so many of us, so we have to put the names in some sort of priority. That's what's so sad to me

is when it's like a resources thing. Yeah. Where it's like, we could check all these, we just don't have enough people. We don't have enough people. We don't have that manpower. Investigators also asked for the public's help in locating the bike that Robin had been riding

when she disappeared. It wasn't found at the scene and it hadn't been seen since she left her friend's house that afternoon. Fortunately, Jenkins and his team of investigators would not have to wait long for the public's help. A few days after they released the sketch of the suspect, Officer Dennis McNaught contacted the Huntington Beach division and reported that the sketch and the description of the suspect matched a parolee that he had on

his caseload a few years back and his name was Rodney Alcala. So we love a parole officer finally coming through. Thank goodness. Yeah. According to time, It's about time. According to McNaught, Alcala had a history as a child molester and a quote, known penchant for prurient photography of children. Jesus Christ. It's disgusting.

He's a fucking monster. And not only that, but he strongly resembled the sketch that police had released. And it turned out that Officer McNaught was not alone in his belief. A few days later, Donald Haynes, which if you remember that name, he's the Good Samaritan who reported the assault on Tali Shapiro. He called the tip line to report that the man in the sketch strongly resembled Alcala, who he remembered from the assault on Tali. Donald Haynes? Good Samaritan of the motherfucking century. The fact that he was following this and was like,

oh no, that's the guy and I'm gonna make sure they know that. Like a lot of people, and it sounds sad, but it's like a lot of people wouldn't. They don't wanna get themselves involved. They don't wanna get re-involved. They don't wanna like deal with it again. This guy was like, nah, fuck this guy.

That's the thing. We tell that the former story way more often than the latter of Donald Payton's. Yeah, absolutely. It's incredible. I feel like he, I hope he was the head of his neighborhood watch because I would feel so safe with that man says my neighbor. I hope he just thrived. I also, I should look, I don't know why I didn't already. I should look and see if he

got some kind of reward because he absolutely should have. Yeah. Some kind of acknowledgement. He's adorable, by the way. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He just he looks like an adorable old man. I feel like good people who are like have good inside. Sometimes it like really shines through. Yeah. You know, it's true. But based on the tips from the public, his criminal history and the fact that he was known to frequent the area where Robin's remains were discovered,ators were granted a warrant for Alcala's arrest and a warrant to search his home and his car. On July 24th, detectives arrived at Alcala's mother's house for the 457th time. That's me being hyperbolic, but barely. But like, not really. Barely. They found Rodney just chilling in his

bedroom and took him into custody without incident. During their search of the house though, they found a considerable amount of photography equipment and photographs as well as a receipt for a storage locker in Seattle. Ooh. Yeah. Which I never knew that detail of this case that there was a whole storage locker

full of nefarious shit. I had no idea. They also found a cane cut knife set, interestingly enough, but it seemed as though none of the knives were missing from the set, but still interesting. Other items seized that day included a pair of handcuffs. This is disgusting. Eight issues of a magazine, which I don't know how it got into publication, but it's called Young and Naked magazine. Are you fucking kidding me? Get it together. Disgusting. Get it fucking together. They found a leather bullwhip and over 1,000 photos, negatives, and slides.

Jesus Christ. He was booked on suspicion of murder, though he claimed that on the afternoon that Robin went missing, he was at Knott's Berry Farm Amusement Park being interviewed for a photography job. Are you at an amusement park? That's good. Isn't that interesting? That's disgusting. Regardless of his supposed alibi,

he was put into a Huntington Beach jail cell and his bail was set at a $250,000, a sum far beyond his mother's reach this time. Thank goodness. Thank goodness mom can't come bail this fucker out. Honestly, mom should be ashamed of herself. Yeah. I'm glad you said it because I completely agree. Yeah. You just, I don't like, you can agree or not. I, whatever. But there's a certain time when they have to face the music. When the police continuously come to your

home saying your son is accused of doing this crazy-ass shit. You can't enable a child who is a grown adult now, it's not like they're a child, it's not like you're saving a child from, you know, this is a grown adult, he's making stupid decisions and he's hurting people, it's time to start holding him accountable for it. Well, and it's not like the police just came and said, oh, you know, he's a suspect, he's a suspect, he's a suspect, that happened, but also he was convicted multiple times. That's the thing. Horrible, horrible crimes. Yeah. Like, And that's the thing. It's like, it's time to start letting, letting the justice system hold him accountable. Yeah. So a few days after his arrest, I'll call a sister came to visit him in

the in the Huntington Beach jail. During their conversation, guards overheard Rodney and his sister talking about a storage unit in Seattle, and they heard him say to her, do me a favor, get the stuff out of there, get it cleared out. Holy shit. You didn't think anyone was listening to your conversation in prison, sir? Like, really? Okay. He's like, I bet this is totally like off the record. No one's going to hear this. No one's listening. You know, prison is a place where no one hears anything. It's cool. The calls aren't wired or anything

like that. Absolutely not. Not tapped. No. But intrigued at the thought of what Alcala could be hiding in his storage locker, Detectives Ed McLaren and Craig Robinson got a warrant to search that unit and they flew right over to Seattle. When they reached the storage shed, however, they found that it was locked with not one, but two padlocks. Fortunately, they had brought along with them two keys discovered in a briefcase that was seized from Alcala's mother's house. And when they tried them in the locks, they worked. Oh, shit.

Can you imagine how that must have felt? Because they probably had those two keys and were like, who knows where the factually go to. Yeah. And then boom. Oh my God, to hear that lock click must have been the most exhilarating and terrifying moment. Yes. Of any of their lives.

Because you're like a double edged sword. You're like, we're gonna find evidence. We can nail this fucker. Like this is our time. But we're gonna find horrifying shit. And then you're like, what the fuck are we gonna find in here? Yeah.

Inside the storage unit, McLaren and Robinson discovered what appeared to be an assortment of personal belongings, including cold weather clothing, kitchenware, more than 1,700 photographs. Oh God. A large number of photo slide carousels, including one marked, and this is awful, Tali VA rape. I am so glad that this fucker died.

Same. And I hope it was so painful. Awful. I hope it was an awful death. I hope he felt every second of every horrific feeling one could possibly feel. I hope Rodney Alcala got the same kind of experience that Angelus had on Buffy.

Yes. Where the soul suddenly hits and every bad thing you've ever done rushes. Like I hope he had to feel every bad thing he's ever done. Yeah. And the simultaneous feeling of like a bunch of nails lifting his fingernails. Yeah. I hope. That's what I hope for him.

I hope. That's what I hope for him. They also found another photo slide carousel that was marked, Ode to New York by John Berger. So boom, alias. Wow. Dumbass. He's also, I'm so glad he's so fucking stupid. Same. Like that is helpful. Very helpful when they're dumb as fuck. That's the thing. They also found several pieces of jewelry and among that jewelry, the detectives found a pair of gold earrings that matched those described by Robin Samso's mother, which she was wearing on the day she went missing. Remember Robin was 12. 12.

And remember Tali was eight. Eight. Like do not forget that. I'm not taking away from the young women that also lost their lives. No, there was 15 year olds. Man, he really hit every, like every age group. He had no actual profile except for a woman. Exactly. Yeah. And, and he liked women.

Woman or girl. Yeah. He's disgusting. On July 26, he appeared in municipal court where he was arraigned on charges of kidnapping, lewd or lascivious acts upon a child under 14, first-degree murder and robbery. He pleaded not guilty to all charges, and a preliminary hearing was set for early August. At the same time, the judge ordered that Alcala would finally be held without bail. Yeah. Oh, thanks.

As a bail very weird thing. Thanks, guys. Yeah. For finally doing that. Thanks. Yeah. While he sat in a jail cell awaiting trial, investigators started combing through the photos and negatives discovered in the storage

unit, which must have been fucking awful. It takes like, it's, I don't think we think enough, like the average person about the kind of shit that the, like, um, the people who go to these crime scenes and detectives have to see and have to comb through and then have to just like place aside and move on to the next one. Like these people have to comb through stuff like that and then go eat dinner with their

family. Yeah. Like they have to see these awful pictures of an eight-year-old girl being assaulted and brutally like harmed and attempted to be murdered. And then some have to go home and see their child. And then just send them off to school or send them down the street to play or whatever. The compartmentalizing that must have to happen in your brain is just beyond, like, I feel like it's beyond most human capabilities.

You can see why a lot of detectives like end up, you know, having so much trouble in their personal life. Absolutely. We even say like after recording a case like this, it's tough. It sticks with me. For a few weeks, it's tough. It sticks with me. Just hear it. But if I was forced via my job description to have to look through every single crime scene photo, things that are not released to the public,

and I think of there's so many cases where I've thought about, I'm like, I can't imagine the people looking at the photos here. No, because it would break. Even juries, juries are shown wild photos sometimes. And sometimes they need like extensive therapy. That's actually one of my biggest fears is getting called to jury duty and having to be exposed to some of this stuff because it's like, I get it. Well, they see the same, obviously, like on a lesser, they see a lesser amount of it most times, but they see the things that these detectives see and have to go through. Yeah, so it's damn, like the people who do this stuff are different kinds of people.

They really are. Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about. Each week, unredacted, declassified mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories, 100 percent true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners, but as

assets to advance US intelligence during the Cold War. These aren't just old conspiracy theories, they're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real, the secrets are shocking. Follow redacted declassified mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Redacted early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus. ["Wonderful Music"] Well, the photos contained a large number

of young women investigators had never seen before, who they believed that Alcala had been stalking throughout the years. So he was also a stalker, which is fucking terrifying. Which is the least shocking thing in the world. Truly. They also discovered a photograph that appeared to have been taken at Huntington Beach on the day that Robin went missing. So there went that alibi.

Yep. Yeah. There that goes. So the image was actually published in papers across California to be like, hey, who is this woman? Do you have any information? Detectives were contacted by Lorraine Watson, who was the young woman in the photo. And she confirmed the day that the photo was taken effectively undermining his claim

that he was at a job interview that day. What a dumb shit. Truly. What a dumb shit. The detective work there to be like, maybe we can track this girl down. Like if you're this girl, contact us. That's the shit that blows my mind. When they can get that stuff done, I'm like, hell yeah.

It's awesome. Rodney Alcala's trial was delayed multiple times as the defense filed one motion after the other to get testimony and evidence suppressed, most of which were unsuccessful, luckily. And the trial finally got underway in February of 1980 with deputy district attorney, Rich Farnell acting on behalf of the state and John Barnett working on behalf of Alcala. The state's case was pretty straightforward. Alcala had met Robin Samso on or near Huntington Beach on the afternoon that she went missing and he had taken her up into the mountains stopping at marker 11 where he sexually assaulted and murdered her. In support of that theory, they called several witnesses, including the two teenage girls

that Alcala had approached with his camera earlier that day. Another young woman, Lori Wirz, also testified that Alcala had taken her photo on the beach that afternoon. So he was just- Yeah, he was just out there. Taken a prowling on the beach, taking pictures of everybody he possibly could. And all of these women undermined his alibi, which was perfect, because now the jury is listening.

Yeah. Those witnesses helped to place him at the scene. But the state's most significant witness was Dana Crappa, that firefighter who saw Alcala with Robin on the afternoon that she was killed. Unfortunately, while she did appear in court to testify, her testimony was a major revelation to both the prosecution and defense, who were not expecting this story, she told, because it was quite different than what they had both originally heard. Initially, she had testified that she had seen Alcala and a young blonde girl headed

into the woods on the night of June 21st, and that was her extent of involvement in the case. But since Alcala's arrest, she had become uncooperative with police and was very cagey about the testimony that she had given in previous hearings. Huh. At a hearing in February, 1980, Alcala's defense attorney, John Barnett, pressed Crappa about the truthfulness of her

statements. And that's when she started telling a very different story than anyone had heard. Interesting. According to her, she had seen Alcala on the day of her statements. And that's when she started telling a very different story than anyone had heard. According to her, she had seen Alcala on the day of the murder, just like she had told investigators, but there was a great deal more to it that she hadn't said. It turned out that just a few days later, on June 25th,

she returned to marker 11 where she had previously seen Alcala. She said she parked her car, but she left the engine running and she walked a little way up the trail to investigate. She said she parked her car but she left the engine running and she walked a little way up the trail to investigate. She said she hadn't made it very far when she noticed a foul smell in the air and a few feet away she saw various pieces of clothing including that tennis shoe, a pair of shorts and a t-shirt. And remember they didn't find any. A few feet away from the clothing she said she spotted a body. She said, quote,

it was missing the hands and the feet. It was pretty cut up on the torso, arms and legs. It was bloated like an animal gets when it sets a while. She claimed she was horrified, and she ran back to her car and then drove to her parents' house, where she said nothing about what she had found. I don't get that. Mm few days later she was working on a spraying crew in that same area. Wait, so, baby, you just went back to work? You just went to work? It gets a lot worse. Like, what are you doing? Nothing good. You're just going back to work? Nothing to be proud of. What the fuck? So she goes back to work and she's in that same area and she and William Popke came upon a pile of bones.

Believing them to be the remains of a deer or some kind of other animal, she said William actually picked up one of the bones and quote, tossed it at Krappa as a joke. Though she admitted she knew that they were not animal bones. Later that night, she returned to the scene again. admitted she knew that they were not animal bones. Later that night, she returned to the scene again. It was dark, but in the light of her flashlight that she brought along with her, she said

she could see some of the girl's blonde hair and the pile of clothing still near the body. There were obviously signs of further decomposition, and she said the right arm appeared to be missing at that point. Three days later while working with the spraying crew was when William Popeye finally discovered the remains of Robin Samsoe. I am literally shocked. Without words. This is the most disgusting behavior outside of like being a murderer. It's also just bizarre. You're like, is that true? Like, are you... Why would you lie about

that? Why would you lie about that? But why did you lie in the first place? And this story is way worse than the... Because this story is way worse than the... But this story is so fucking bizarre. I get why she lied about it in the first place because the actual truth that she was forced to tell under oath... So much worse. Is so bad and makes that person look so fucked up. That you're not gonna, well, and also at that point,

you're not gonna believe anything they say because they've already lied so much. That first story was to cover up what this looks like. It is. Because to me, this looks like what the fuck is wrong with you? Well, I mean, yeah. Why the fuck are you out here walking around?

Multiple, why are you returning to the scene multiple times? You are returning multiple times. That's insane behavior. Cause it's also like, okay, what's wrong with you? Oh, so much is wrong with them. Like, let's pull you aside when this is all said and done. Oh, I'd be like, we need to take a real hard look into this person's background

because what the fuck is going on there? Holy shit. The new version of events was not only a stunning discovery to Elena, but also the prosecution and the defense and me as well. The prosecution and the defense had suspected that she was withholding something, but didn't expect

that it was so significant. When asked why she hadn't said anything about any of this before, she said, from the very beginning, I was trying to find a way out. I did not want to testify. Blaming it on my imagination was easier to say than actually saying I believed it. Here's the thing. I get that. I get you saying I didn't want to testify. I get it. Because I think about that all the time, that if you just happen to stumble upon a body, you're now fully involved in that investigation and that sucks.

That's a nightmare. Because you didn't ask to be fully involved in that. It sucks ass. It's a lot of weight to carry. I totally get that. Hearing that makes a little... Nope, it doesn't. I get that.

I get that feeling. It still doesn't make sense. You still have an obligation as a fellow human. You just do. I know it's going to suck, but you have a fucking obligation as a fellow human. Well, that's as- You see blonde hair. This is a 12 year old. And you know that a 12 year old girl is missing. You know this is a child.

And you think you saw her. That's the other thing. You thought you saw her. You think you saw them. So it's like, you saw her alive. That's fucked. And now you're just going to work and going home and acting and letting your fucking coworker throw her bones about. That's the part that I'm like, okay, as soon as that happened,

you should have called the police and been like, we thought this was animal bones, but I don't think it is. I don't think it is. Can you come out here and check? And it's like. That's the part where it would have been like, okay, you fucked up, but like, you were scared.

When it gets to the point where it's like, I saw something, I didn't say anything, and then I saw another thing, and somebody threw something at me and I didn't say anything, and then I went back a third time, and I still didn't say anything, and then I decided maybe I should say something. Here's the other thing too.

Again, I understand not wanting to have to testify and not wanting being thrust into the investigation like that. I can't imagine. I've never stumbled upon a dead body. No. And hoped to never. But why did you keep going back to it? If you didn't want to be involved in this, why the fuck did you keep going and looking

at that body? Because you've involved yourself. That's the part that's so... And to me, that tells me that you're fucking curious and you don't know... There's something wrong here. That's the part that's so weird to me. That's not somebody who doesn't want to be involved. The only thing that I can think of is that she thought that her imagination was playing

tricks on her and she's like, is this a human? Is this a human? But it's like... It is, babe. Call someone. And it is. Call someone. You don't need to go back four different times and smell that smell to know that you're looking at a human being.

Let's be real. And to like bring a work crew out there. It's just, I don't know. Again, I can get down with you, the feeling of being scared to have to testify and be involved in the whole thing. What you did is fucked up beyond measure and I can't understand it. No. So that's that. Damn and I can't understand it. Nicole Soule-Nagant No. Nicole Soule-Nagant So that's that.

Nicole Soule-Nagant Damn, I didn't see that happening. Nicole Soule-Nagant Yeah, no one did. Nicole Soule-Nagant Holy shit. Nicole Soule-Nagant Her decision to reveal the truth was a major blow to the prosecution because it called into question the credibility of her testimony, her testimony, which was the key to the prosecution's case. So everybody stunned. Another important witness for the prosecution, Robert Dove, had similar credibility problems. He was an inmate at the Huntington Beach Jail where Alcala was held pending trial, and he testified that during his time there,

he overheard Alcala discussing Robin's murder and boasting about his chances of an acquittal. This inmate claimed he heard Alcala tell another inmate, no one seen me take her, and added that he didn't stab her, but he quote, slapped her unconscious. Which is just so brutal. He also told the inmate they quote, would never convict him without the quote, film and the bike bike and they would not find the bike. So that's interesting. Although the credibility of those two witnesses, two key witnesses, was weakened under cross-examination, the prosecution was handed a major victory when the judge allowed for Alcala's previous arrest record and violent conduct to be brought to the attention of the jury. Thank goodness. That doesn't happen a lot. No, it doesn't.

It's kind of stupid. In my opinion, it is. I agree. I know it's like a case by case thing. No, I know. In a lot of cases, it can be stupid. It's a slippery slope, you know? But in this one, it's like, come on.

As a result, though, the entire courtroom was familiarized with the assault on Tali Shapiro in 1968, the kidnapping of Julie Johnson in 1975. If you don't remember, that's from part two where he had kidnapped that girl. She was on her way to, Julie Johnson was on her way to school and he forced her to smoke weed and then the park ranger found them. And nobody believed that, nobody believed her. They thought she, this child was at fault for going with the scrum man. And of course they were made aware of the recent sexual assault and kidnapping of Monique Hoyt, which he hadn't even faced yet. He was still, he was out on bail for all that.

Awesome. The criminal history established obviously a pattern of luring young girls into his car and then attacking them violently, which is precisely what the prosecutor Farnell argued had happened to Robin Samson, and it's also just facts. In his closing arguments, John Barnett flatly rejected the prosecution's theory and argued to the jury that Dana Crappa's dishonesty quote, entirely discredits the prosecution's case, which not exactly. I don't think so. No. He said though, if they couldn't trust the prosecution's key eyewitness, could they really be certain beyond a reasonable doubt that the rest of their theory was accurate?

He said, quote, set your emotions aside, set your feelings aside, decide on the, decide the case on the facts. If we are to be a country of laws, you must acquit because the prosecutors have failed to prove their burden beyond a reasonable doubt. It's like, that's not actually up for you to decide. You, I mean, that is some, I know it's this job. That's some slimy shit. That's some slimy ass shit. In this case, I'm not saying all defense attorneys,

but in this case, that's some slimy shit. In this actual case, it is horrifying. You're defending somebody who was literally convicted. And has been caught many times. Multiple times for assaulting young children and women. Like you're defending a predator, that's a problem. And he's an established predator. And I get it, I know, I know somebody needs to defend all the people and all that shit.

I don't like it in this case. I don't like it in this case either, so deal with it. After two months of testimony and evidence, the jury deliberated for nearly a day before returning with their verdict, finding Rodney Alcala guilty on charges of kidnapping and first-degree murder. On May 7th, he returned to court for the penalty phase of the trial, and that was when the jury was asked to determine whether aggravating circumstances were such that they warranted the death penalty. During this time, Farnell attempted to establish for the jury that Alcala had in fact killed before. He referred to the 1977 murder of Ellen Hover,

where the judge sustained the defense's objections because there was unfortunately never sufficient evidence or a conviction for Ellen Hover's murder, unfortunately. Which is awful. Even, well, we'll get there, don't worry. Oh, good. Even though Farnell wasn't able to connect Alcala to Hover's murder, the jury still returned a recommendation

that Rodney Alcala be sentenced to death for, the jury still returned a recommendation that Rodney Alcala be sentenced to death for the murder of Robin Samson. So he didn't even need to introduce that. They were like, yeah. No, they were like, we got you. And honestly, life was going to introduce him the death penalty anyways. So that's good. Unfortunately, not like right away. Yeah, it usually takes a while. I know. When the recommendation was read, Robin's mother, Marion Fraser, shouted, all right, from her seat near the front of the courtroom. And then she collapsed into the arms of a police officer next to her.

I would be the same way. Oh yeah, absolutely. Same way. That's your baby. That's her 12 year old baby who went to hang out with her friends and ride her bike around, which she should be able to fucking do. Like everybody knows our stances and all that on the death penalty. I don't need to say it again, but I can say 100%. I would be 100% for it if it was my child. Yep. Yep. Not a

doubt in my mind. I don't even have kids yet. Not a doubt in my mind. Judge Schwab set a date of June 20th for official sentencing. In between the recommendation phase and the final sentencing on June 20th, Alcala and his attorney of course petitioned the state supreme court for a new trial. They argued that the evidence in the case, primarily the jewelry and the photos seized from the storage locker, had been obtained illegally and should warrant a new trial. Shut the fuck up. But they weren't. They had search warrants.

No. Shut up. The supreme court rejected the petition entirely and on June 20th Rodney Alcala was formally sentenced to death. Bye. But that is not the end of our story. No of course not. It turned out that Marianne Fraser's relief at Alcala's conviction was to be short-lived, which breaks your heart for her and all the other families. You just couldn't take a breath. This family and all the, and most of the families.

This got tormented. Tormented. Yeah. Tormented for years. It ultimately took, I think, three trials. In 1984, Rodney Alcala appealed his conviction to the state Supreme Court again, this time arguing, among other things, that the prosecution had biased the jury against him when they disclosed his past criminal acts. So that's for life, babe. That's the thing. That's for life. But unfortunately, the court justices agreed. Wow.

They agreed. Inciding with the argument put forth by the defense, the justices overturned that original ruling and they, they granted Alcala a new trial. That's dumb as fuck. It is. It's, it drives you insane. So the second trial held in the spring of 1986, so six years later, this family had six years of, I don't want to say peace because they lost their loved one, but they had six

years of knowing that this man was behind bars and was going to die for what he did. Yeah, trying to rebuild the pieces of their life for six years. Yeah. And then it gets opened right back up. And then boom, it's all, it's starting all over again. It was essentially a rerun of the first trial, but this time the prosecution had to leave out his past criminal history. In the end, he was still found guilty of kidnapping and murdering Robinson.

Marian Fraser told reporters, I just thank God. Maybe now my daughter can go to sleep for the first time in seven years. Maybe the rest of my family can go back to life. During the penalty phase a month later, Alcala pleaded with the jury to spare him the death penalty. Oh, like your victims pleaded with you probably? Yeah, exactly. You piece of shit.

Saying that his record as a model prisoner was proof that quote, I'm absolutely harmless, I'm not a threat. You're a child predator, dude. Someone dig his corpse up so we can all kick him in the nuts. Literally. You're not a threat. Yeah, you're not a threat when you're in prison because there's no children there. Exactly.

You fucking asshole. But despite his pleas, the jury again recommended the death penalty for the murder of Robin Samsoe. Later, Mary Ann Fraser hugged the jury foreman and told him, thank you, my daughter deserved this, which she absolutely did. In the years that followed, though, he continued to appeal his conviction. He should not have been allowed to keep doing this.

No. He just shouldn't have. No, not at all. And in 2001, a federal court's appeals judge overturned the conviction in the second trial on the grounds that Alcala had not been given the opportunity to present contradictory evidence during his trial. Get it together. It's also like, okay, how many times does he get to make this the perfect defense? You keep getting to try again. That's not how this should work. I've had years and years to sit and stew over this,

and I finally come up with the perfect plan to get out of it. Can you let me have another trial? And they're like, sure. And it's like, it's again, a slippery slope. He's sitting in prison. It's all he has to do. Because some people are sitting in prison and that's all that you... Like, I want to sit here and be like, they shouldn't be able to do that. No, but it's true.

But some people are innocent and they get proven guilty and they get that time to finally sit there and think like, oh, this is the one thing. So I can't even sit here and say it's a bad thing. No, it's a perfectly imperfect system. It is. And this is a perfect example of it. Our first instinct is to say, fuck this, you shouldn't be allowed to keep doing this. And then you can flip it right to the other side and go, but there's so many innocent people that get convicted.

That need that time. And they need that time. And they do come up with a way that finally they can tell people that they are innocent. And they deserve that time. And they deserve that time. So 100%. It's so tough. It's perfectly imperfect. Flop.

That's why it's such a case by case basis. Even us making a blanket statement like, they shouldn't be allowed to do this, is not true. It's just not... He shouldn't have been able to do this. But I feel like we're... This one guy shouldn't have been able to do this is not true. It's just not, he shouldn't have been able to do this. But I feel like this one guy shouldn't have been able to do this. We are growing and we are not making as many blanket statements. You just got to catch yourself when you make, or you at least have to- Yeah, catch yourself before you wreck yourself. You have to give a little bit of an amendment when you make a blanket statement. Exactly. I was about to, and then I was like, no, no, no, girl, don't do that.

Yeah. This specific man- He should not have had the time. Should not have been allowed to do anything. No, he shouldn't. No, this specific man, he should not have had the time. Should not have been allowed to do anything. No, he shouldn't. No, nothing. Nothing. But this decision meant that he could be tried a third time for the murder of Robin Samso, her poor family. We got to find a better way. We do. Deputy Attorney General Adrian Denalt told reporters, we are incredibly disappointed. We think the court is wrong and that justice has not been served in this case because this family is just getting bombarded years and years after they think they finally have peace. Which the second time around, I'm sure that family, Robin Samso's

family was like, should we even rest or is this going to happen again? That we're going to have to go through this all again. And then boom, they had to go through it all again. Oh, that's awful. Well, the district attorney's office may have been frustrated by the court's decision by that time. Remember it is now 2001. Oh, yeah. Major, major advances in science and technology had allowed- And babe, they have some DNA. That's the thing, had allowed for the testing of DNA and those blood samples that I mentioned.

Open it up, babe. Now they could pinpoint that with surprising accuracy. And in 2003, a recently collected sample of Alcala's saliva was matched to samples taken from Jill Barcombe, Georgia Wichstead, Charlotte Lamb, and Jill Parenteau's cases. Oops, all that time sitting around didn't get you to realize that they can now nail you to the wall even better than they could before. Even more. In fact, beyond a shadow of a doubt now. That meant that in addition to retrying Alcala

for Robin Samso's murder, the district attorney could also now prosecute him for those additional murders. I love that. That he was like, oh. I'm innocent again. And then they were like, oops. Now we can actually get you for more. You fucking thought.

In the words of Bailyn, you're done. You're done. This time around, the prosecution had more than enough evidence to convince the jury, including the DNA evidence, bite mark impressions taken from the victims. But unfortunately, the family's present at trial would have to endure Rodney

Alcala serving as his own fucking attorney this time. Come on. Also some of the things that he was allowed to do while representing himself will boggle your goddamn mind. Those are things that do need to look at. Absolutely. I think there's a lot of instances where it becomes their own personal kink. Yes. And it's allowed to be like displayed.

And the fact that they are doing it in front of the victim's families becomes part of their kink. Yes. And it shouldn't be allowed to be done. One gajillion percent. Yeah. There needs to be some safeguards on those for sure. And unfortunately, again, it's like a case by case basis because the judge gets to decide

what happens. Yeah. In this case, I'm like, you're like, what are you doing? I'm like, tap, tap, is this thing on? Hello? So on March 9th, 2010, it took an Orange County jury less than an hour to find Rodney Alcala guilty on all five counts. After the verdict was read, one juror told a reporter, he's a monster. He's not a human being. 100% true. Hear, hear to that, my friend. Before the jury announced their sentencing recommendation, though, Alcala again asked that he be spared the death penalty, and actually at this point, wanted to be granted clemency.

No. You good? You good, bro? He said, let me put the death penalty in perspective for you. If you desire to join in the killing of a human being, you and the families of all the victims will have to wait at least 15 to 20 years while the case slowly churns through the appellate process."

What? Are you really trying to be like, let me explain it to... Are you trying to mansplain the death penalty to everybody? It's like, yeah, we know. People will wait 20 years to see you die. We'll wait to see you die. With bated breath. Yeah. we know people will wait 20 years to see you die with bated breath. He also at this point was allowed to play Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant, specifically the verse where he sings, I wanna kill, I wanna kill, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth, eat dead burnt bodies, I mean kill, kill, kill, kill. Why? Why are you letting him do that? Why?

In front of victims' families too? At all. But in front of victims' families? What? Who know what happened to their loved ones? That's the thing. And he was saying, if you're going to inflict the death penalty on me,

you're the same as I am. Wow. So let me play this song to show you who you guys are and apparently who I am. Which you shouldn't be allowing a convicted killer and child predator to be talking to people that way. No. You just shouldn't. They shouldn't have the podium to be saying that shit. To be talking to people, period. Yeah. But to be sitting there being like, let me preach to you that you're the same. Nah, babe. And also, are you not just proving the prosecution's case? You literally just called yourself a killer. Yeah.

You're saying you're no better than I am. Yeah. So you're saying you're a killer. So you're saying... Hello? You're saying it's true. Hello? Yeah.

He was just an absolute terror to the very last second, but luckily the jury wasted no time recommending to the judge that, hey, they still felt like he should be sentenced to death. Yeah. And during a separate penalty phase- Please don't ask us again. Yeah, like we're done here. During a separate penalty phase, Tali Shapiro was actually able to speak about her harrowing experience as an eight-year-old girl attacked by this monster.

Later, she told 48 Hours, I'm one of Rodney Alcala's first "'and one of his only living victims. "'It should have stopped with me. "'Why in the world are there so many other victims "'when it was a known fact what he did to me?' Yes, Tali. The fact that she was able to speak on this makes me so happy that her voice was heard.

But it's so true. Why the fuck when they knew what he did to her at eight years old, in the morning, in her own fucking apartment complex. Oh, it's shameful. Why? Shameful. Why was anybody else allowed to ever come across

this man's path? Yeah, the only icon in that scenario is Donald Hayes. Yes. He was the only one that made a move to stop anything from happening, and they just washed it aside. And without him, oh my God.

It could have even been worse. It could have been worse. She could be dead. She could be dead. She would be dead. She would have been, absolutely. She would be dead without him. And he would have stayed in California and done the same thing more boldly.

So Rodney Alcala was finally being held accountable for his horrific crimes committed decades earlier. And it turned out that it wasn't just prosecutors in California who wanted justice for his victims. In January, 2011, a grand jury in Manhattan indicted Alcala for the 1971 murder of Cornelia Michael Crilley and the 1977 murder of Ellen Hover.

Remember Cornelia Michael Crilley, she was moving and he broke into her or seems that maybe he got into her apartment under the guise of helping her and then, oh my God. Assholes. Ellen's cousin Sheila said, for the longest time, it was a foregone conclusion that he would never be charged for her murder. This is a terrific surprise. Yeah, you want to see him go down for it.

Absolutely. On December 14th, 2012, he appeared in a New York courtroom where he pleaded guilty to both murders, though he offered no details about either crime. He just knew that they had the DNA to convict him. Yeah, he's a little bitch. He knows. At the time, investigators made public a large number of the photos discovered in Alcala's storage unit in Seattle, hoping that they'd be able to identify women in the photos. Yeah, I remember this.

It was like a big deal. Yeah. In response, many women came forward to identify themselves and told police, quote, a photographer named John Berger had taken their picture in New York in the 1970s. I can't fathom being one of those women and knowing. Just to know you got away. Yeah, knowing. And you would spend so much time, like if not the rest of your life, just thinking, what was it?

Yeah. What was it that I got? Why did I get away? Ooh. Why did he take a picture of me and then move on to the next girl and do what he did to her? Holy shit.

Like that would plague you, I think. Yeah. Now, while this helped to identify many of the women in the pictures, a significant number of these women unfortunately remain unidentified. Which makes me nervous. Of course it does. Because I'm like, where are these women unfortunately remain unidentified. Which makes me nervous. Of course it does.

Because I'm like, where are these women? Yeah, it's, I think, unfortunately we'll never know where some of these women are. But hopefully... Yeah, hopefully we will. Hopefully we will. Four years later in 2016, a prosecutor in Wyoming had charged Alcala with the murder of 28-year-old Christine Thornton, who disappeared in 1978, and her body was discovered in 1982. She was six months pregnant at the time of her disappearance. At the time, he was in very

poor health, who gives a fuck? But the prosecutor declined to extradite him to face charges. No, send that motherfucker where he needs to go. I don't give a shit if he's sick. Because she lost her life. He's still here. And her baby's life. So he should face the fucking music and her baby's life to go. I don't give a shit if he's sick. Because she lost her life. Yeah. He's still here. And her baby's life. So he should face the fucking music and her baby's life. Exactly.

Yeah. So I don't give a fuck how sick he is. What, is he gonna be uncomfortable? I don't give a shit. Extra-dietin. I hope he is uncomfortable. Yeah. On July 10th, 2021, he died of natural causes at a hospital in Kings County,

California. He got to live until he was 77. 77. He got to live until he was 77. 77? He got to live a whole fucking life. That upsets me. Upon hearing of Alcala's death though, Tali Shapiro, who was then 61 years old, told a reporter the planet is a better place without him, that's for sure. Yes.

Now at the time of his death though, he was still suspected of murder by investigators in Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona, New Hampshire, and Marin County, California. that he, that some people will finally have answers to their loved ones murders. But what a fucking monster. He is one of the worst people that we've ever talked about. Truly. We talk about horrible, horrible, horrible people and he is up there with the worst of them.

I had no idea. I knew he was really bad. I had no idea how bad. I had absolutely no idea. I really didn't. Going into the details, reading some of them, oh my god. Yeah. Oh my god. Like, holy shit. Yeah. So I think maybe for our next case, we'll do something a little fluffy, a little light. And if you need a, you know, palette cleanser after this,

which I'm sure you do, go listen to the rewatcher. Yeah, we're talking about Buffy, in case you haven't listened to it. Ash hasn't seen the whole Buffy series. She's watching it for the first time. I've seen it a million times. And we have Mikey on there with us, who has also seen it a million times. So we got varying degrees of Buffy watching this.

And we're going episode by episode. I think we're in the sixth season right now, like halfway through. About halfway. So, and it's going episode by episode. I think we're in the sixth season right now, like halfway through. About halfway. So, and it's a lot of fun. We end up laughing until we cry every single episode. So it's well worth it. A very good palate cleanser if you need it. And if you don't watch Buffy or you're not into that, we also have Scream with Caleb where we cover horror movies or you can listen to both and be into all of it.

Scream is also a place where we end up laughing so hard we cry every single episode. Somebody said that they ran out of Warbitt episodes and went to scream and they were like, I did not think it was gonna be this funny. Holy shit, you guys. We literally cry laughing, like every episode. There have been times where I've had to run out of the room

because I'm gonna like pee my pants. Literally. So definitely if you need a little lighter stuff, those are those are the way to go. Actually a perfect palate cleanser for you guys. Our next episode we're going to be talking to the two directors of this new docuseries on Netflix. I think it dropped December 11th. It's Kings of Tupelo. You need to dedicate at least four hours of your life to watching this. It is the zaniest docus-series you will ever see,

and we're so stoked to talk to them. That show was wild and I can't wait. We're gonna have so much fun. So look out for that. Definitely try to check out the doc before the episode drops, because I'm sure there's gonna be some spoilers. So yeah.

And like we were saying at the top of the show, we wanna cover some more survivor cases, some more strange history coming up. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So we'll vary it up. Keep your eyes out. Something for everybody here.

Yeah, we gotcha. We gotcha. Whatever your fancy is, we can help you. We're here. Here we are. I don't know, I gotta go. So with that being said, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird!

But definitely not as weird as Rodney Alcala, because wow, I need to go scrub my brain with a toilet brush. Be cool to each other. A toilet brush with leech on it. So Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.