Morbid - Episode 647: A Deeper Dive into the Murder of Elizabeth Short (Part 1)

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

On the morning of January 15, 1947, a woman walking with her young daughter spotted something pale and white lying in the weeds of a vacant lot. When the woman walked closer to get a better look, she made a horrifying discovery: the bisected body of a young woman, brutally murdered and like trash in the abandoned overgrown lot. The woman in the lot would soon be identified as twenty-two-year-old aspiring actress Elizabeth Short, who the press nicknamed “The Black Dahlia.” Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1947. "Mrs. Phoebe Short can't believe slain girl hers." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 17: 2.Bartlett, Jim. 2017. The Black Dahlia: Los Angeles' most famous unsolved murder. January 8. Accessed January 14, 2025. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38513320.Daily News. 1947. "Body of girl mutilated by murderer." Daily News (Los Angeles, CA), January 15: 1.Federal Bureau of Investigation. 1947. Correspondence, Identification Division, FBI. Letter from R.B. Hood, SAC to Director Hoover, re: Black Dahlia identification, Washington, DC: United States Department of Justice.Gilmore, John. 1994. Severed: The True Story of the Black Dahlia. Gardena, CA: Zanja Press.Goffard, Christopher. 2024. "The killing of Elizabeth Short, dubbed the Black Dahlia, has inspired endless theories." Los Angeles Times, October 26: B1.Hodel, Steve. 2003. Black Dahlia Avenger: A Genius for Murder. New York, NY: Arcade Publishing.Lait, Matt. 1991. "Memories of murder." Los Angeles Times, June 22: B1.—. 1991. "Search fails to turn up evidence of '47 murder." Los Angeles Times, June 23: B1.Los Angeles Times. 1947. "Beth Short slaying suspect jailed after asserted admission of crime." Los Angeles Times, January 29: 2.—. 1947. "'Black Dahlia' knife braggart terroizes girl." Los Angeles Times, February 5: 7.—. 1947. "'Black Dahlia's' love life traced in search for her fiendish murderer." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 18: 3.—. 1947. "'Dahlia' clues fail; inquest conducted." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 23: 2.—. 1947. "Elizabeth Short case slayer baffles police." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 31: 2.—. 1947. "Girl victim of sex fiend found slain." Los Angeles Times, January 16: 2.—. 2004. "Janice Knowlton claimed a link to Black Dahlia murder." Los Angeles Times, December 19: B7.—. 1947. "'Killer' fails to surrender in Elizabeth Short death." Los Angeles Times, January 30: 2.—. 1947. "Mystery envelope sent in 'Dahlia' case; address book gives dozens of fresh leads." Los Angeles Times, January 25: 3.—. 1947. "Police await second 'Dahlia' letter for clue to break murder case." Los Angeles Times, January 27: 2.—. 1947. "Police free red-haired salesman as suspect in 'Black Dahlia' murder." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 21: 2.—. 1947. "Police stumped in beauty killing." Los Angeles Times, February 2: 2.—. 1947. "Soldier's 'Dahlia' date tale newest clue in slaying." Los Angeles Times, February 6: 2.—. 1947. "Soldier's leave time checked in 'Dahlia' murder." Los Angeles Times, February 7: 2.—. 1947. "Suspect detained for questioning in 'Black Dahlia' mutilation murder." Los Angeles Times, January 20: 2.—. 1947. "Tooth cavities clue checked in beauty slaying." Los Angeles Times, February 4: 2.Nightingale, Suzan. 1982. "Author claims to have found 1947 murderer." Los Angeles Herald Examiner, Janaury 17.United Press. 1947. "'Sick' veteran is booked in Dahlia death." Fresno Bee, January 29: 1.—. 1947. "Spurned lover is hunted in murder of 'Black Dahlia'." Fresno Bee, January 17: 1.—. 1947. "L.A. Police hope Dahliua murderer will surrender." Sacramento Bee, January 28: 4.Weller, Sheila. 2015. "The sins of the father." Dujour, June 01.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey weirdos, it's Ash. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about the spooky perks of Wondery+. It's like having a skeleton key that unlocks ad-free listening and early access to new episodes. So don't wait, try Wondery Plus today. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. It's time to shop for new styles, electronics, and plan your exciting getaway. And what if each time you made a purchase, you got a little something back? Well, with Rakuten, you can.

Earn cash back on just about anything you buy from over 750 stores. So if you're looking to buy a new phone, clothes, skincare, or getaway, well, you can get cash back. So treat yourself, family, and friends and book that vacation now. Start getting cash back today by joining Rakuten. It's free and easy to use, and you get cash back deposited into your PayPal account

or sent to you as a check. It's the smartest way to shop, plain and simple. Start your shopping at rakuten.ca or get the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N.C-A. In the depths of an Atlanta forest, a clash between activists and authorities ends in tragedy. I'm Matthew Scherr, and on my new podcast, We Came to the Forest, we expose the hidden truths behind a shootout that left one activist dead and countless lives forever changed. Binge all episodes of We Came to the Forest ad-free on Wondery Plus.

Hey Weirdos, I'm Alena. I'm Ash. I mean, what else is new? I was going to say, wow, weird. I just got Subway. She did. It was a break from the norm. I haven't had Subway in like 10 years at least. I know. I haven't had Subway in a long time. Yeah, like possibly 15 years. It wasn't even a choice. It just happened. Yeah. Yeah. I just really wanted to, really wanted a tuna fish sandwich real bad. Yeah, and it's real tuna apparently.

It is. Well, Elena tried to tell me that it wasn't. She was like, you know, it's not real tuna. And I was like, oh my God. And then I Googled it and it turns out there was a lawsuit back in the day. Yeah. People was trying to say, it's not real tuna.

Eh, it is. Yeah, I became the internet for a a second and I was like, let me just spout something that's complete bullshit with nothing to back it up. She said that she was just testing me to do my own research. I was like, I wanted you to check. So yeah, I did my own research and it turns out, services. It's real tuna. It was good. It slapped. I'm glad it slapped for you. How was my lunch?

I liked that for you. Thanks. I had some cottage cheese with garlic and some sun dried tomato and basil wheat thins. You have to say wheat thins. Wheat thins. It was delicious. That wasn't like my lunch. That was just a snack. Like a pre lunch. Yeah. Pre lunch appetizer. We have an exciting thing happening today that we can't tell you yet. I know and my tummy's all jumbly for it. So she didn't eat lunch. I said, are you going to eat something bitch? And she said, I can't, I'm too excited. But don't worry, you will find out what this thing is. You will find out fairly soon actually. Yeah. So hang tight. There's a couple exciting things happening. I know we're being those annoying people who are like, we know something and you can't, but you will. Sometimes it's

fun. I promise you. Oh, I thought you were gonna continue that sentence. I thought you were going, I promise you. No, I just meant like, I promise you, you'll find out. Like, period. Yeah. You're funny. Period. Period.

So we're gonna be covering a case today that you might be like, wait a second, did I see this before? You did. You did. But I wanna cover it better. We've grown. We covered it a long, long, long, long time ago. It's no longer on there. But this was one of the first ones. Yeah, this is one of the first ones. So, you know, it's a case that deserves another look and a deeper dive. So Dave touch a little Dave touch to it. So we decided to revisit it. And it's

also it, it happened in January, which, oh yeah, we didn't even mean to do, but I don't even know if I knew that we're fresh out of January right now. Um, we are going to be covering the black Dahlia murder, the murder of Elizabeth short. So this case has so many layers to it. This is going to be a two-parter. It must be. It has to be. It must. It must be. I'm getting into my trans-Atlantic accent because we're going to Hollywood, baby. Hollywood? Hollywood. We're going to Hollywood and we're not in real life. I'm staying firmly planted over here. not in real life. I'm staying firmly planted over here. But yeah, this is a crazy case. It is the first case I can truly remember becoming unhinged obsessed with.

I remember that. It was this and like Jack the Ripper that I really just could not stop. This one in particular because I remember seeing, I believe it was one of those like E true Hollywood stories or one of those like mysteries and scandals with A.J. Benza. They used to do the countdowns. Yeah, exactly. And I remember it was one of those. I loved those. I loved A.J. Benza.

I don't know what he's up to now. If he if he's good or bad right now, I'm I'm not up on it. And I bet he's fine. I hope I'm he's good or bad right now i'm i'm not up on it and i bet he's fine i hope i'm gonna google it really because like i have fond memories of that show and him what's what if i just googled what's aj benzo doing what's aj benzo up to um his real name's alfred that's crazy good for him good for al. He's just like doing poker. Okay, so is he just- A poker podcast?

Is he kind of just like quietly existing? I've heard of it. I saw a podcast. Yeah, it's- Good for him. Sounds like he's chilling. Okay. Oh, you know what?

Oh, he plays for- I was kidding. He plays? You know, he plays harmonica. Wow, look at him. That's what he's doing. All right, he's like blues traveler. Is this the AJ Benza?

Am I correct? What if it's just like a random mom? I feel like that's AJ Benza. Yeah, I think so. He has that vibe. AJ Benza, what are you doing? What are you up to? When I mentioned him, I was like, you know, you always got to be careful to be like, oh, fuck, because you don't want the only thing for anyone to hear out of this. It's AJ Benza if he's a bad guy. And you're right. It was mysteries and scandals. Mysteries and scandals. I remember it was like, he was the host and I remember him standing on a very rain sodden sidewalk. Yes. It was dark, there was lots of fog around him at all times and he would walk out and

start telling you the story. And I can... Oh my God. Right? Bro, I can... Can't you see it? No, not only can I see that, I can see the point of you watching the TV from your bed. Oh my God, yes. In the purple walls.

Yeah. Oh my God. See, it has a special place in my heart. Core memories. Core memories. And I remember seeing the Black Dahlia case and I remember them showing some version, I don't know if my mind is like twisting. No, it's not because I remember it too. Some version, maybe it was a sketch or something of her autopsy photo. Yeah, no, I remember that. Because I remember seeing the Glasgow smile. I remember seeing that vividly. And I remember that being

the point when I said, what? Like I was like, what? Somebody did that to someone else? I feel like they show not like obviously like an overhead shot, but I, they show part of the crime scene. Yeah. It's like from the, it's that classic photo where you could, it looks, you know, the crime scene looks like there is a mannequin laying in the grass. And of course we're going to get into the specifics of this because it was not a bloody crime scene, she was drained of blood. In part two, we will get into all the theories,

we're gonna talk about who we think did it, we're gonna talk about, you know, a lot of the people that they were going after for suspects. So don't worry, we'll get more into that. And I think in part two too, we'll kind of go through even more of some of the nuances of this stuff. But right now, we're going to tell you about Elizabeth Short. I'm going to tell you about the crime scene. I'm going to tell you about how she was found. And we'll

get a little bit into some of the suspects. All right, let's do it. So strap in AJ Benzai. I hope you're listening. Oh my God. Hi, AJ. Oh my God. I don't think he has a poker podcast, by the way. I said that wrong. It's a poker show. Oh, okay. Good for him, man. Yeah, just before anybody corrects me. Yeah, you don't wanna get it. I read it wrong, okay? Yeah, I'm wrong. It was live reading.

Yeah, you know, we're live Googling right now. Yes. We're taking us back to a cool and very overcast day, January 15th, 1947. All right. This is when Betty Bursinger and her three-year-old daughter, Anne, left the house for a nice little

morning walk. Just a stroll. Yeah, just a stroll. So the Leimert Park area of Los Angeles, which is just five miles south of Hollywood, was a very newly developed and planned community, and there were still a lot of vacant lots in it. They were along Norton Avenue, and people would use these vacant lots a lot of the time because people are always going to people.

To dump garbage, other stuff, be the dumb part of people. So when Betty caught sight of a pale white thing in the tall grass in the empty lot, she thought, oh, someone left a broken Taylor's mannequin in the lot rather than just getting rid of it properly. You know, it was just one of those things that she's, she kind of walked by and was like, like, can people stop people? Yeah. She was like, Oh my God, put your trash in the garbage. Exactly. But then Betty got closer to the object, which was just a few inches from the edge of the sidewalk. If you have ever seen the crime scene photos or anything like that or been to that area,

you know that she was right up out in the open. To think that she was with her three-year-old daughter. Yeah. That's that. Worst nightmare. Worst nightmare. Shakes me to my core. Yeah. And I mean, Elizabeth's body was right on the grass

next to the sidewalk. I mean, all of it was intentional. And she immediately realized she was not looking at a mannequin at all, but a horrifically mutilated body of a young woman who had been bisected at the waist. I think that's what initially really drew me to this case, like made me just like morbidly fascinated and absolutely horrified by this case,

was just the extent of the mutilation that was done to this woman. I could not conceive of it. I still can't conceive of it. Even to this day, it stays as one of the most horrific cases of mutilation you can conjure. Now, at the site of this poor woman's absolutely mangled body, Betty immediately grabbed her daughter and ran for the nearest phone. And she called the university division of the LAPD and reported what she had seen. Now she was fully panicked, obviously, and absolutely horrified going through complete shock. So she didn't like adequately describe what she found. Like she

wasn't able to convey it in a way that some, it would be a little understandable. How would you? So the communications officer on the other end noted that it was a quote possible three 90, which is a stuporous drunk down in the lot at 39th and Norton Avenue. It's like, dude, why would she be that horrified if it was just a drunk person stumbling around? That's the thing. Like, I'm like, I feel like you, even if you note that as like, I think this is what she said, you should be like, but she sounds really upset. So it could be that there's other things going on here.

Now whether because of confusion or poor communication, the officer also neglected to get the caller's name or phone number. So didn't know her name was Betty, didn't know how to contact her after that. Oof. I don't really know why. Maybe because they were thinking it was like a stuporous drunk situation.

Maybe like first day on the job type vibes. Very first day on the job. Training and their overseer was like in the bathroom. A lot of this scene was manhandled in a very bad way, which I think led to the reason why we don't have definitive things even today. That was the opposite of a bang up job. Yeah, not great at all.

In fact, it was gonna be a full 10 days before investigators were able to track bursting her down through notices in the papers. Like they couldn't find her anywhere. So they had no, all they had was that initial call and then that was it. So they just came up upon it and we're like, okay. Jesus.

Now, expecting to find someone sleeping off a night of drinking and a lot, the dispatcher sent a single patrol call to investigate the call. And countless journalists and press photographers to investigate the call and countless journalists and press photographers had heard the call go out over the police radios that they all kept in their cars. So they all kind of followed just to see if there was any story there.

Los Angeles Examiner reporter Will Fowler and his partner Felix Pagel were the first to arrive at the scene before the LAPD had arrived. So the journalists arrived before the police. And y'all know how that goes. Yeah. That's never good. They were shocked because Fowler said, there's something about a dead body you couldn't

mistake. It's difficult to describe two parts of a body as being one. However, both halves were facing upwards. Her arms were extended above her head. Her translucent blue eyes were half opened. So I closed her eyelids. Oh, now that's really sweet. Don't touch a dead body. Why the fuck did you touch a dead body?

Yeah, don't be the hero. I'm sorry, beautiful, beautiful sentiment. Love that for you, that you were trying to be respectful. Here's my thing to everybody. Don't fucking touch a dead body if you find it. Don't touch a dead body for's my thing to everybody. Don't fucking touch a dead body if you find it. Don't touch a dead body for a myriad of reasons. Don't get your fucking fingerprints on a dead body. Hello? You don't disturb that. No. Don't disturb the scene. You don't know anything

about what's going on here. You don't know if something was injected into her eyes. You don't know if something was put in. You don't know. So just- Sweet boy. Don't touch. Again, the sentiment, love it. He was respectful, very empathetic. I wanted to close her eyes. Don't do that. Yeah, don't involve yourself. Now the patrol officers arrived a few moments later and quickly called the division to let them know, no, it was not a drunk sleeping off a night of drinking in a vacant lot, but a horribly

mutilated dead woman. Thank you for fucking that up on the highest level you possibly could. Well, that's the thing. I don't know how, like, I don't know the procedural for this, but I'm assuming you would probably send a different set of officers for those two things. Yeah, I would think so. Like, you're not sending the homicide division to a sleeping drunk. Yeah, exactly. Like that's like, it's, I'm, I'm just a little confused.

And again, I'm not, I've never been in this situation, how the person on the other end confused what she said so hard. Yeah. And like you said, with the amount of anxiety and panic in her voice, I feel like you would question she's not going to be that upset about a drunk sleeping. It's like, I don't know. I feel like there should have been a little... Maybe, I don't know if she hung up quickly and maybe they couldn't get anything else.

I don't know. But I'm like, wow, this really... This game of telephone busted up right away. Yeah. The news, of course, brought more reporters and soon the crime scene was absolutely overtaken by reporters, photographers, additional LAPD officers. Probably just on the looker. But it was just chaos.

Yeah. Just chaos. Of course. And in order to keep as many people as they could out of the crime scene now, detectives told patrol officers and some of the reporters at this point, because they needed however many people they could, to make a human chain around the perimeter to keep people out. Dear God.

But by this point, the scene had been absolutely trampled by so many people coming and going, and honestly, it remained open to the press long after investigators left as well. So whatever evidence was maybe there, totally tainted. And again, this is 1947. Exactly. So there's not a lot of evidence to begin with.

Exactly. And it's like after investigators left, that scene should have been cordoned off and somebody should have been stationed there. And that way they can go back to the scene if they need to. Something comes up, you go, wait, let's get back to that scene and take a look again. And they didn't do any of that. So people were just trampling right through it right after they left. It's like, guys, what were you thinking? I don't, I don't get it at all. Who doesn't love the good things in life? Even though I enjoy a little luxury, it doesn't

mean I can always afford it. Until I discovered Quince. Quince is my go-to for luxury essentials at affordable prices. Quince offers a range of high-quality items at prices within reach. Like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50, washable silk tops and dresses, organic cotton sweaters. I love the organic Fisherman Crew neck sweater. I have like three of those. And that's not it. They also have 14 karat gold jewelry. Ooh la la.

By partnering directly with Top Factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I love that. I have the 100% organic cotton fisherman crew sweater. I love Quince sweaters and they last really long. These are quality made sweaters that are super duper comfy. Give yourself the luxury

you deserve with Quince. Go to quince.com slash morbid for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's qince.com morbid to get free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com morbid. Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about. Each week, on redacted, declassified mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories.

100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners, but as assets to advance U.S. intelligence during the Cold War. These aren't just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow Redacted, Declassified Mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you

get your podcasts. You can listen to Redacted early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus. LESLIE KENDRICK It was common for murder victims to be dumped in various locations like the lot where Elizabeth Short was found, especially around Los Angeles. It was just, you know, just the area. But from the moment investigators arrived at the scene, it was clear that this was not their run of the mill. No. This was for sure. There was a lot here. It was definitely not the killer trying to get rid of this body quickly.

No. That is for sure. Like, this was not like, I just have to remove myself from this situation. Shock factor. They had arranged Elizabeth Short's body in a very particular way and had chosen a location where she would 100% be discovered very quickly. Like, very quickly.

And the way she was arranged, like the two halves of her body were placed close to one another with about 12 inches between them. And the upper half was placed somewhat asymmetrically from the lower half, like a little bit to the side. And her arms were raised above her head and both of them were bent at an angle, very much so like you were posing for a photograph. Right, that makes sense.

She was also completely nude. But it was very much like she was posing, like you would lay on a bed to pose for a photograph, like you would see in a magazine at the time, like a spicy magazine. Risqué. So it was very clear that they were trying to pose her in a way that it would shock, and in a way that they were definitely trying to send a message, either about who they believed

she was or about something else outside of her. Something in their pathology. Exactly. The level of violence that the victim had been subjected to, I mean, it exceeded what most veteran law enforcement officers and on the LAPD had ever seen or would ever see. Which is really saying something. Yes. Detective P.W. Freestone told reporters at the scene, this is the most brutal example of a sex crime I have ever seen. She had been cleanly, and when I say cleanly, I mean cleanly

bisected at the waist, which is shockingly cleanly. Absolutely insane. Yes. Whoever had done this, it felt like they had access to the type of tools required to do that in a surgical setting. This is kind of like when I go back to like Jack the Ripper. Don't worry, I'll talk about the DNA soon. Thank you for tagging me and everything. But this is kind of what I say with Jack the Ripper that I don't think like it's, it's hard to understand how difficult it is to cut parts of the human body

cleanly if you haven't tried to cut human body parts cleanly. Can confidently say I've never tried. Yeah. So it's like if you have not been in a profession where you have done that or been around that, it's a little hard to wrap your brain around. It is, absolutely. Especially if you've only seen it in TV and all

that kind of stuff in movies. So like with Jack the Ripper, I was always saying I do believe this person has medical knowledge because to be able to do that stuff in the dark, in the light it would take a somebody who knows where these organs are. Yeah. And then to do it in the dark. It's like muscle memory. Just feels like you have to know exactly where these things are. It's kind of the same thing here. This isn't somebody who just happened to figure out how to cleanly bisect a body. They knew how to do it. And they knew how to do it because they know where things are

because they are medically trained. That's how I believe this situation is going here. I think you're right. And there's also other parts of it that lead to that too, which we'll get to. There was also, and this is my next point here, there was a lack of blood at the scene. Um, and it indicated obviously that this mutilation had occurred elsewhere and that she was likely killed elsewhere, but her body had also been completely

drained of blood. That is one of the factors about this case that always has stayed with me. Yeah. Completely drained of blood. And it's just like, why? That's the thing. And I think it was. The why there could take you down so many different pathways. I think it very much to me is another point in the column of this was a surgeon.

Yeah. To me, it feels like somebody experimenting with things that they had knowledge of, obviously, but experimenting to a degree. In just doing the most. Yeah. Almost like showing off their skills because it's like you have to have knowledge of like vessels and the vascular system to know how to properly drain a body of blood. You also have to know how to do it, where to do it.

You have to have the space to do it. And, you know, certain people that are suspects in this case have really big houses with basements. Do you know off the top of your head how many liters of blood? Like, obviously, I'm sure it varies, but like an adult body would have? I'm fairly certain it's five, like a little over five, perhaps. It's like somewhere around that. Okay.

I lost like a ton of blood when I had my twins. I had to get like two transfusions. I think I lost like two liters of blood. So that's the only reason it's stuck in my head. How many? To think of a body completely drained of blood. Because I saw you, obviously, in the hospital after you had gotten the transfusion.

So all your blood was back. But you looked. I remember, I will never forget pulling a nurse aside and being like, is she going to make it? Is she OK? I was like, gray. So I can't. You were.

You were literally gray. I never understood what people meant when they say somebody is gray. Until that moment. But to see somebody completely drained of blood. And to think about the procedure and the process of that. Yeah, I can't go that far. Because normally, to do that, it means,

I apologize for getting graphic here, but it's really all I can do. Normally to do that, you're going to hang the person upside down to allow all the blood to drain out, just gravity. You're not just going to sit them in a bathtub or anything like that and let, you really need some gravity to help you out here. Yeah. To drain somebody completely. Usually it's like hanging them up over something. Would you assume that that would have happened after she was bisected? I would assume yes.

Right, because then I would assume, yeah, because that's the easiest way to do it because you've got two halves. Which is awful. That are less blood in each to drain at once kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like it's less, and again, we're getting graphic here, but here you are, you clicked on this, damn it.

It's less messy. Yeah, it's just, and it's less of a distance for the blood to travel as you drain out of the body. Cause you're cutting the travel in half, essentially. So this would have to be somebody who has the capability of doing all of that. Which is not your average Joe. Which is not just your guy on the street

who was mad that she didn't date him. You know what I mean? Which is what they were really going with for a while. I a while. I don't think any of these fucking dick wads that were just like being assholes to her are really capable of all this. And again, this wasn't a day and age where you could just like extensively look something up like that online. I mean, obviously there were textbooks and that kind of thing, but even then I would assume the resources on something like bisecting somebody and draining somebody of blood would be pretty limited. I think it's pretty safe to say that this person

already had the knowledge because they had possibly gone to school to get this knowledge. And possibly maybe not the bisecting, but I don't know. You just, you almost assume that this person has done something like this before for it to come out that cleanly. Yeah, you do feel it. You get the sense that this is not the first go. Even if maybe on some kind of cadaver in the learning process. I don't know if that's how that works. Yeah, I mean, like this person and I mean, if they're again, this is speculation, obviously, but like if this is a surgeon, did this, then it's like they've performed clean cuts on the human body. Like obviously that kind of cut is like a very specific kind of cut, but who knows?

It's like it's similar to other things, so amputations can be similar. All right, so that tangent aside. Yeah. The victim had also been beaten about the face and head. There was a ton of lacerations, especially on her face and head. And the thing that I think a lot of people really remember about this case, including myself, is that her killer had cut her mouth from ear to ear, creating a Glasgow smile, a permanent, really ghoulish looking grin on her face, essentially. One of the most disturbing aspects of this case.

It's a very, very disturbing thing to look at. It's horrifying. That's why this is such a ghoulish crime scene, because there's so much shock to this crime scene. One, she's nude. Two, she's bisected. She's been posed with her body in the right place, placements, but away from each other

to showcase that she's two halves of a whole. And even, again, like off-center. But a little to the side with her arms up, like she's posing for a photo. And then to see how horrifically she was beaten and cut and all kinds of things. But also, she's got this ghoulish smile on her face, that permanent smile that has been chopped into her face. It's beyond,

it's really beyond anything you've ever seen. There was also a ton of superficial cuts and scrapes, other parts of her body, and there also appeared to be ligature marks on her neck, wrists, and ankles. Now, this is kind of important and kind of something that you can take in many different ways. Obviously, it could mean that she was bound when she was alive and was being restrained, which I fully believe can be the case and probably was the case. But this could also be one of those things where you say, okay, is that where she was hung upside down to be drained of blood? That would leave ligature marks too.

That would leave ligature marks somewhere. That would leave ligature marks somewhere. I mean her neck was also had ligature marks as well, which to me says it was part of like a torture or restraining. But it also can have to do with being hung upside down if that's the case, if that's how it went. If you think too hard about all these things all at once and you start thinking about what was happening during all this, it can like fuck you up. Like it's just like thinking about what she went through.

Yeah. And you, nobody knows how long she was going through this. That's one of the things that I think about the most is that it had to have been like hours and hours and hours, if not days. Yeah, it's like, it feels like it was at least hours and hours for sure. So police ended up fanning out, started combing the lot for any evidence they could get, but there was really little to be found. What they did collect, some of it was like a paper cement bag with what they thought

was small drops of diluted blood on it. Okay Investigators theorize that these were these cement bags were what were used to carry both sections of her body to this area There was also tire tracks visible on the sidewalk and a slightly bloody heel print of a man's shoe This is good evidence. Yeah, But according to former detective Steve Hodel, which becomes a very important member of this case. And we just talked about him in the Rodney Alcala case. We did. According to him, quote, these two important pieces of evidence were not secured or photographed by the on-scene detectives.

There's no scenario where that makes sense. There are tire tracks and a shoe print. Why would you not photograph that? And they were not photographed or secured. No. Like, bizarre. Those are important pieces of evidence. That you can genuinely... Those could be the most important.

Yeah. Like, you can genuinely narrow down a suspect with that shit. You can tell what kind of tire that is, what kind of car it comes from. You could tell what that shoe is, what kind of shoe that is, how many have been sold in there. You can tell all that shit. Yeah, lots. But we're just, eh. Like, LAPD. Yeah. Come on.

What are you doing? What are you doing? But other than that, there was really nothing else of note at the scene and no means of identifying this body. So she ended up being labeled at first Jane Doe number one and transported to the coroner's office. The next morning, an autopsy was conducted by Dr. Frederick Newbar, who was the chief autopsy surgeon for the County of Los Angeles. Newbar listed the cause of death as, quote, hemorrhage and shock from a concussion of the brain and lacerations of her face.

My God. They believed that that was all inflicted while she was conscious, which means that Glasgow smile was inflicted while she was conscious and alive. And those were deep cuts. Yeah. Think about like- Oh, it tore open her whole face. When you're looking from the side, it's like her jaw has been removed almost.

That's horrific. And it's hemorrhage and shock from that, which is one of the most horrific things I can imagine. She died in shock from bleeding out. From having her face ripped open. Yeah. from bleeding out. From having her face ripped open. There was an additional incision from just below the navel to just above the pubic area and several smaller cuts and small bruises all over the body that were likely defensive wounds.

So she was fighting back for part of this. There was also evidence suggesting that Elizabeth had been sexually assaulted, but samples taken during the autopsy came back negative for the presence of this. There was also evidence suggesting that Elizabeth had been sexually assaulted, but samples taken during the autopsy came back negative for the presence of sperm. Newbar estimated the time of death to be somewhere within a 24-hour window before the body was discovered, but he couldn't be more precise than that because, I mean, there was a lot of blood and has been mutilated in a way I can't even fathom. Of particular note though, at least from Newbar's perspective, was how precise the bisection was like we were talking about. In fact, it looked like it was actually what's called a hemocorporectomy,

which is at this time in the 40s, a relatively new surgical procedure that came into use after World War II. And it involved removing everything below the waist from a surviving person. As far as Newbar could tell, the procedure had been done after death on this victim, who we now know as Elizabeth Short. And the precision with which it had been done really suggested that the killer,

or at least the person who performed the bisection postmortem. Because it could be two different people. Had some experience with medicine and surgery. Newbar also noted that the body appeared to have been thoroughly washed before it had been left in the lot. Which, that's always so creepy to me.

It says surgeon to me. Yeah. Because everything is clean, you have a clean field, you... He's not gonna go through all of that to drain blood and to bisect in such a clean way and then leave it messy. Yeah. It's just not something that I see happening. A few miles from the glass spires of Midtown Atlanta lies the South River Forest. In 2021

and 2022, the woods became a home to activists from all over the country who gathered to stop the nearby construction of a massive new police training facility nicknamed Cop City. At approximately nine o'clock this morning, as law enforcement was moving through various sectors of the property, an individual without warning shot a Georgia State patrol troop. This is We Came to the Forest, a story about resistance. The abolitionist mission isn't done until every prison is empty and shut down.

Love and fellowship. It was probably the happiest I've ever been in my life. And the lengths will go to protect the things we hold closest to our hearts. Follow We Came to the Forest on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of We Came to the Forest on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of We Came to the Forest early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. In the 1980s, a rose swept the country. Hey Mike, I really like this white Zinfandel.

Well good, good. Now put it down. I'm going to try another one. White Zin became America's top-selling wine. But most don't know that this sweet drink has a sour history. What began in 1986 with counterfeit bottles. A big fraud, a multi-million dollar fraud. Sent investigators chasing one of the most powerful families in the business, the Lacharties. But the closer the feds got to them,

the more dangerous things became. It's a story of deceit, threats, and murder. What started with a scheme to mislabel wine spilled into a blood-soaked battle for succession. Welcome to Blood Vines. You can binge listen to Blood Vines exclusively and ad free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify. This hemocorporectomy that he's talking about would be performed,

it's like a radical surgery. It is last resort, all you have left kind of thing. And what you have to do is you have to cut between two specific lumbar vertebrae that makes it so that you don't have to cut bone. And they have to reroute the spinal cord essentially, and they have to reroute, because you're removing the spinal cord essentially, and they have to reroute, because you're

removing the genitalia, you're removing the rectum, all that stuff. So you're going to have to reroute everything. Many different things. Many different things for a living person. It's a very intense procedure, a very complicated procedure. And again, this person cut in the same spot that you cut for this specific procedure so that they didn't have to cut through a bone. Which is strange.

And you, I'm telling you, you open up a body and you take a look at that spinal cord, it is not as simplistic as you think it's going to be to just chop through between a vertebrae. You know what I mean? So it's got to be someone who chop through between a vertebrae. You know what I mean? So it's got to be someone who knows what they're doing and has seen this before. They didn't just open her up for the first time and just figure it all out. It's just not something they've opened people up before and they've seen what's going on. I will die without it. Knowing the cause and estimated time of death was pretty important, but for investigators, they really wanted to know who this victim was. They were like, this is the most important.

During the autopsy, fingerprints were taken and passed along to the main offices of the FBI. And in their coverage of the story, the day after Short's body was discovered, the Los Angeles Examiner included a lengthy description of who the girl was. They were hoping someone would see this description of her, the physical description, and come forward. Among other things though, the Examiner described her as between 15 and 16 years old. Ehh, no. Wrong. With enameled pink toenails and a 3.5 inch operational scar on the right side of her

back. She was also described as quote, rather well developed with small bones and trim legs. Okay. I'm like, you want to, it's a weird way to describe it. Any other descriptors in there? I'm like, I don't know if I would be able to be like, well, my cousin does have trim legs. It's a weird way to describe someone you think is 15 or 16 years old. Trim legs. It's very 40s. Okay. Very 40s. Truly. Fortunately for investigators, once the identification division of the Washington DC office of the FBI got the photos of her fingerprints, they found a match within an hour. They identified Elizabeth Short from their card file of more than a hundred

and four million possible matches. Wow. Yeah. Short's fingerprints were on file because she had filled out an application for a clerk position at Camp Cook in 1943. And there was a second set of her prints on file from that same year after she was arrested on charges of, quote, violating juvenile court laws. So now this dead young woman that they thought was 15 or 16 years old, they found out was 22 year olds Elizabeth Short.

22. 22. That is so young. Yeah. I don't think it's ever hit me how young she was. For some reason, I always thought she was still a young person, obviously, but a little bit older. 22. Yeah. I think I'm also looking at it from a perspective of now being later in my 20s. And I'm like, Oh my God, you'd barely become an adult yet. And she has lived a lot. Yeah.

She had a tough life, right? She had a tough stuff going on. Yeah. She was struggling. Now, Elizabeth Short was born July 29th, 1924 in the Hyde Park neighborhood of Boston, kid. Hyde Park? Hyde Park, you say? That's where the salon that I used to work at had its first ever location.

There you go. She's from our neck of the woods, kid. Boston. She's a Boston gal. She was born to Cleo Alvin and Phoebe Short and raised in Medford. Medford? Medford, I said. Wait, I'm going to Medford tonight. Holy shit. Get out of raised in Medford. Medford? Medford, I said. Wait, I'm going to Medford tonight.

Holy shit. Get out of here. Medford. Medford is a working class suburb about 10 miles outside of the city. It's true. It's true. We can confirm. I was just going to say can confirm.

At the time of Elizabeth's birth, Cleo worked in construction, building miniature golf courses and other kind of attractions like that. I didn't know mini golf was a thing way back then. birth. Cleo worked in construction, building miniature golf courses and you know other kind of attractions like that. I didn't know mini golf was a thing way back then. Mini golf has been around since the dawn of time. We love to miniaturize things. We do. We do. And I respect that. I also respect that. And when the stock market crashed in 1929, he became unfortunately unemployed and lost his savings. Oh God. It was really bad for a lot of people. A year later in 1930, Charlestown police found Alvin's car abandoned on a bridge and he was believed

to have taken his own life by drowning in the Charles River. Ooh. But a short time later, it was discovered that Cleo had faked his own death and abandoned his family and moved to California. I hate that. Not great. I hate that. Not great. That's fucking awful. Yeah, that's real fucking awful. I feel like I forgot that. Yeah. There's so many parts of this case that you remember and then there's so many little details that you're like, oh my God, do I even remember that?

And she was only, Elizabeth was only about six years old when this happened. Only six, but old enough that you realize it. Oh, that's terrible. So this is a big traumatic event. Fuck you, Cleo Alvin. With Cleo gone, Phoebe Short became the sole provider for Elizabeth and her four sisters.

So, and she was working as a bookkeeper. With only one income, the family struggled, but did manage to survive the depression without like an insane amount of hardship, at least. Like she kept them afloat. During her childhood, Elizabeth began experiencing chronic bronchitis and severe asthma, which ultimately required lung surgery at age 15.

Oh, wow. I don't know if you remember, there was required lung surgery at age 15. Oh, wow. I don't know if you remember there was a scar mentioned by Newbar in the autopsy that was from that surgery on her lungs. Following her surgery, the doctor suggested Elizabeth would be better off in warmer, drier climates. So she began spending her winter breaks in Miami with family friends. This was kind of like that TB thing, like the tuberculosis thing where they thought like we just stick you out on a balcony and you'll get fresh air, like that kind of thing.

It is better for your lungs. After three years of wintering in Miami, Elizabeth dropped out of Medford High School during her sophomore year and moved to Miami Beach. And she quickly found work as a waitress. On her own for the first time, she struck up a relationship with Major Matt Gordon Jr. who was an Air Force pilot stationed at a nearby base. A short time later in January of 1943 Gordon was shipped overseas and Elizabeth decided to relocate to California where she wanted to live with her father in Vallejo.

Oh so they reconnected. They reconnected. It was during this period that Elizabeth worked as a clerk at Camp Cook. That's where the fingerprints came from. But her relationship with her father quickly became very strained. And within a few weeks, she decided to move to Santa Barbara. Oh wow, just weeks?

Yeah. It's, her father told a reporter after Elizabeth's death, I made her leave. I didn't want anything to do with her or any of the rest of the family again. Huh. You're an asshole. That's wild to say.

That's just like, you're a wild asshole. That's wild to say ever. That's wild to say after your daughter's death. And that's wild to say after your daughter's gruesome death. Yeah, murder. Murder, exactly. Yeah. What the fuck?

Can you imagine? No. I didn't want anything to do with my child again or any of the rest of my family, my other four daughters who are living on the other coast. That's so fucked. You should have thought about that before you had a family. That's like wild douche behavior. Truly.

It was there in Santa Barbara that she was arrested for violating juvenile court laws when she was picked up for underage drinking at a Santa Barbara nightclub. During her hearing, the judge agreed to sentence her with probation, provided that Elizabeth accept a train ticket and return home to Medford, Massachusetts, and she agreed. So she agreed to return to her mother in Massachusetts, but instead she chose to go to Florida. Once she was settled in Florida, she resumed her correspondence with Matt Gordon, the Air Force pilot. And in 1945, Gordon supposedly proposed they marry when he returned home from active duty. And despite only having met him in person a few times, Elizabeth accepted.

It was aerf. Unfortunately, this enthusiasm was gonna be short-lived because on August 10th, 1945, his plane was shot down and he was killed in the crash. That's so sad. Which is like another traumatic event in her life. Yeah, and she's 20. Yeah.

Now following Gordon's death, Elizabeth found work as a waitress again, but within a few months, she decided she didn't wanna stay in Florida and she returned home to Medford, Massachusetts. There, she found work in a local movie theater. And once she was back home, she really didn't feel like settled or satisfied like she thought she was going to feel.

She thought she was going to feel some kind of comfort. She really didn't. She didn't love it here. It's a hard time to figure out what you're doing in your early 20s, I think, and figure out where you want to be. Yeah. And she was moving back when we were just heading into winter over here. Not the best time to move back here. But yeah, she wasn't feeling that great. And she knew she didn't feel really satisfied in Florida either. She was like, so neither one of these are working for me. So on April 17th, 1946, she packed up her few belongings and returned to California.

This time she wanted to settle in Hollywood. By most accounts, it seemed like she struggled to find her footing in California for a while. According to Steve Hodel, Elizabeth was known to have lived as a transient at various boarding houses with a variety of roommates. She stayed at a hotel in Long Beach for several weeks during the summer months and then returned to Hollywood. There, when she got into Hollywood, she kind of bounced around a few times,

staying at different places. And eventually she found an apartment where she lived with seven other young women, which wow. I give you credit. That's like Ma though. Ma lived with like, didn't she live with like four other girls when she was in Boston? Yeah, yeah. It's true.

I think that was just like the easiest way to make it happen. I mean, we lived with a bunch of our friends in Quincy, so I can't really. Yeah, I feel like that's like the time that you do it. Yeah, we were living with a lot of people, so might as well, before you have kids, before all that stuff.

Now, during this time, Elizabeth was barely getting by on her wages from her job as a waitress at the Florentine Gardens nightclub. In a few weeks before her death, she had actually struggled to afford rent. She was really like at, had her last few pennies. So sad to think that like in her last days, she was struggling as much as she was.

Yeah, her friend Ann Toth told detectives, two or three weeks before Christmas, she said she was going to Berkeley, but instead of going to Berkeley, she went to San Diego. And she said, just before Christmas day, she sent me a wire saying she was low on funds and asking me to send her 20 bucks. She had been gone about three weeks

when I received another wire saying she was coming back and stating that a letter would follow. This is the last I heard of her. The letter never came. Oh. Yeah. Ann Toth may have never heard from her friend again, but Elizabeth did return to Los Angeles on January 9th. That evening, she was seen leaving the Olive Street entrance of the Biltmore Hotel. And this would be the last time anyone but her killer would see Elizabeth short alive. Now, by 1947, people in Los Angeles had become pretty accustomed to seeing reports of violence in the press. But the story of Elizabeth Short's murder

was truly unlike anything anybody had ever seen. The news of the discovery hit the papers that very afternoon and set off a media frenzy. And it's really due to what police historian Glenn Martin called, quote, the brutal misogynistic and ritual nature that the murder contained. I mean, yeah. Now, again, it's true.

She hadn't just been murdered. She'd been mangled. She had been mutilated. I mean, she had been posed. She had been humiliated by being left naked and exposed like that. There was clear evidence of what a Los Angeles Times reporter called, quote, an orgy of torture. Yeah.

That is honestly as kind of like crass as that sounds, it is exactly what it seems to have happened here. Yeah, no, yeah. But again, pretty crass. Probably a better way to say it. Pretty crass. Adding to the sensationalism, the members of the press were quick to emphasize the sexual undertones of the crime, labeling the killer as, quote, a sex maniac and a sex fiend, which- I guess you can somewhat understand because she was found-

Why are you focusing on only that? Yeah, you shouldn't be focusing on only that. But I can understand why they were saying he might have been. I can understand that they're saying there's a very big sexual aspect of this crime, a very sadistic sexual aspect of this crime. Hyper focusing on it. But like my friends, she was also drained of blood,

bisected and given a Glasgow smile. Like, I don't think we should focus on one aspect of this. Yeah, we should focus on all of it. But as was common at the time, journalists and law enforcement were kind of like intertwined in each other's work and the press would really play on not like just like the last couple of cases we've covered play a big role in this case,

particularly when it came to shaping how the public viewed the victim and viewing the potential killer. Once the victim was identified as Elizabeth Short, the story really picked up some more steam, thanks in part to the, you know, she was beautiful and she was very mysterious. She was. So it kind of, it was, it lent itself very well to the time and people wanting to start salacious rumors and like dig into people's pasts and, oh, I think she was dating all these men.

Apparently she dated a lot of guys. Yeah. I mean, you're in your early twenties and you're living in Los Angeles. Of course you're dating around. She's beautiful. She's mysterious. She's, you know, trying to find her footing there. Why the fuck not?

Yeah. Who cares? The story quickly became what Martin called, a sad cliche, the ultimate warning tale. Elizabeth Short had come to Hollywood to become an actress, but like so many young women before her, she'd only found disappointment, struggle, and ultimately death. Hollywood is fucking cursed, man.

It is. ["The Blue House"] Have you ever gotten a message out of the blue? Maybe you ignore them, or maybe you end up in conversation. Maybe they tell you about an amazing offer. I can really show you how to make some money. And maybe that gets you into a lot of trouble. But this isn't a story about people like you,

the people receiving these messages. This is a story about the people behind the messages, on the other end of the line. Thousands of them, working in a micro city, built for scammers. From Wondery, the makers of Dr. Death and Kill List, comes Scam Factory, a new series about survival at the expense of others.

Follow Scam Factory on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Scam Factory early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Now within days of the discovery, the press began referring to Short as the Black Dahlia. It was a reference to Elizabeth's, you know, she apparently loved the flower, the Dahlia, and she wore one in her hair often. And she also wore a lot of black clothing and she had jet black hair. So it's a very good nickname for sure. It's mysterious. It's got some-

Sticks with you. It's got like... For the press, it's a really smart one that they picked because it's like, like we said, mysterious. It's easy to remember. And it's got this like sexy kind of undertone to it. So they were really like going with what they were trying to wrap up here. Gonna sell papers. Exactly. It's also possible though that they were influenced

by the popular noir film, The Blue Dahlia, which was released the previous year. I'm sure it was like a mix of them. Regardless of where the name came from, it definitely added to the sensationalism and mysterious tone of the case. And like we said, that's the reason why it's part of the reason why it has so much notoriety today is that when it's easy to remember the name of the case, the Black Dahlia murder, it's easy to reference, you know what I mean? Like, and again, like you said, it's going to sell more papers, which means it's going to sell more books, which means it's going to be something people want to talk about.

It's just a catchy name. It really is. So like the crime scene itself, the canvas of the neighborhood offered really few clues to guide the investigation. One local man, Bob Meyer, told detectives he'd seen a late 1930s Model Ford sedan stop in front of the lot around 6.30 a.m. that day, and he said it lingered near the area where the body was found before driving away. But he couldn't recall any of the other details. That's weird. To me, that seems like somebody who's dropping off a body.

Yup. Fortunately for detectives, the identification of the victim offered several new leads, because now we could start connecting people to her. So they started with her mother, Phoebe, and they talked to her. Poor Phoebe. I know. Investigators set out to learn everything they could about Elizabeth with Phoebe, in the hope that something in her background would help lead them to her killer.

Phoebe actually learned of her daughter's death when she received a call from a Los Angeles examiner, which was soon confirmed by LAPD detectives. So she found out in an awful way. According to Phoebe, Elizabeth traveled to San Diego a few weeks before her death and had found work with the Naval hospital there. She said she left Hollywood because of the movie

strike, which made it difficult to get work as an extra. Phoebe didn't know why her daughter had returned to Los Angeles on the night of her disappearance, and she really couldn't offer any insight. Now, given the sexual undertones of the murder, the investigation definitely turned to Elizabeth's romantic life. According to her mother Phoebe, Elizabeth's only serious relationship was with Matt Gordon, the Air Force pilot who she planned to marry. Other than Matt Gordon, Phoebe Short knew really no other serious relationships that Elizabeth had been in before her death. Her mother didn't know about serious relationships, but her friends and roommates definitely were like, she definitely had some relationships, but not serious.

Yeah, she's dating around. Yeah, according to Los Angeles Times article filed shortly after her death, she was known among her friends as quote, a girl with a different boyfriend every night. Good for her. Good for her. Several roommates and others who knew her claimed she had a fondness for sailors and often visited the nightclubs where soldiers

were known to visit. That was so of the time. I fucking- So of the time. Can I just say, I fucking love that. Oh yeah. I think it's great. The aesthetic of that time. That's the thing, the aesthetic. The aesthetic, but not the vibe of what was happening. No, obviously not. But like the aesthetic of the time is for sure something. It's like a movie. Yeah, it really is. And her former roommate, Linda Rohr, said she was always going out and she loved to prowl

the boulevard. Let's go, girl. Let's go, girls. In their interviews with those closest to her, investigators learned of several men they believe could have played a role in her death. Of the men Short had dated, investigators were very interested in one boyfriend who Elizabeth had confessed

to friends she was quote, deadly afraid of. According to Elizabeth's former co-worker, Cheryl Mayland, there was a quote, tall, sinister elderly man who approached her at a bar where she works a few weeks earlier and asked about Miss Short's whereabouts. And Maylong thought it was possible that he could have been responsible for her death. Other roommates told detectives about a radio announcer with a British accent named Maurice, whom they had heard Elizabeth talk about a few weeks before her death, but they

didn't know anything else about him. And I was like, some of these guys, you're like, wow, I feel bad for you. They're just like that guy that she talked about. I just went on a date with her. Yeah. He's like, oh. There were other mostly unnamed men who came up early in the investigation, including a man in Beverly Hills who had offered to pay Elizabeth's rent

and another in San Bernardino who asked her to move in with him. But those tips really went nowhere. They weren't involved. They were just trying to get with her. So yeah, so, and then we have a lead detective on the case telling reporters, she probably went too far this time and just sent some guy into a blind, berserk rage. That's nice.

And he called her a tease. Oh, of course. Yeah, it's her fault. What was she wearing? To which I ask that man. So how many women have you chopped in half because they supposedly teased you? Jesus Christ, sir. You fucking psychopath.

Truly. Like what the fuck? Who says that? What are men? What kind of blind- Not all of them, but what are some men? What kind of blind, berserk rage makes you do that? Drain the blood from someone and perform a highly complex surgical procedure? What a dumb thing to say.

Like he probably went into a blind berserk rage and then went to medical school real quick and learned how to do that. Like that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard someone say. That's not a blind rage, my friend. That's a shameful statement. Tortured. That's a shameful statement for so many layers.

One, oh, okay, it's her fault. She's a tease. And two, that's just dumb. That's just a dumb statement. Don't be silly like that. Don't be fucking dumb. Yeah. Okay? Don't.

Don't be a dumb bitch. Here he was though. What was on the rewind? Or no, on Scream. Scream. Yeah. You're gonna place a dumb bitch lately. I am.

Some people like- I like guys being a dumb bitch. It feels like 2025 is just bringing out the dumb bitches. I don't know why. We were so hopeful. We were. But you know, it's okay. It's still great.

Yeah. In some ways. In like one. One way. One way, sure. Yeah, or another. Yeah, one way or another. But yeah, go listen to Scream if you want to.

Hey. You know? Anyway. But yeah, that was a dumb bitch thing to say. Among the more promising leads though, was a tip from another, about another former boyfriend, Joseph Fickling, who she met in California in 1944. Like Matt Gordon, Fickling was a former Air Force pilot

living in North Carolina, and the two had been writing back and forth as recently as Elizabeth's time in San Diego. Oh shit. So very, very like recent to when she died. Yep. Fickling told detectives, she told me not to write her anymore at San Diego and that she was in Chicago

or she was going to Chicago, excuse me. Oh. In April, 1947, Fickling started to suspect he was only one of Elizabeth's romantic interests. Well, listen. And that her expression of love for him might have been disingenuous. Eh.

He wrote in April to her, you say in your letter you want us to be good friends, but from your wire, you seem you want more than that. So she was just like pulling the field of hair. She said, I don't know. She said, I don't know, I'm like 20. I don't know, I'm like 22 right now. Now based on the letters between them

that investigators discovered among Elizabeth's belongings, Fickling's confusion and Elizabeth's ambivalence eventually led to the end of their relationship. Yeah. He wrote in one letter, in your letter you mentioned a ring from Matt. You gave no further explanation. I really don't understand.

I wouldn't want to interfere. Okay, well he seems respectful. He does, like that's a pretty respectful thing to say. Okay. Well, he seems respectful. He does. Like, that's a pretty respectful thing to say. Like, Hey, you just mentioned that another guy gave you an engagement ring. So like, I don't want to interfere in that. I'm going to, I'm going to bow. Yeah. The letters indicate that Elizabeth had told Fickling about her proposed marriage

to Matt Gordon, but failed to mention that Gordon had died two years earlier. Okay. That's, that's an interesting play. It sounds like she didn't want a lot from this man's, romantically, and that was the best way to go about it, to let him down easy. Yeah, it does kind of seem like that.

In an interview with Charlotte, North Carolina detectives, Fickling said he'd last heard from Elizabeth in a letter dated January 8th, 1947, the night she left San Diego. Oh wow. And he hadn't heard from Elizabeth in a letter dated January 8th, 1947, the night she left San Diego. Oh, wow. And he hadn't heard from her since. And given that he was on the other side of the country when she was killed, he was quickly ruled out as suspect. But they just got like a little more insight into what was going on in her life, I guess. A few days into their investigation,

detectives learned that when she returned from San Diego, Elizabeth had been traveling in the company of, quote, an unidentified red haired man. On January 20th, detectives picked up 25 year old Robert Manley, a salesman the press described as, quote, slender, neatly dressed man with carrot-hued hair. Not carrot. Not carrot-hued. Not carrot top over here.

And he was believed to have been with Elizabeth on the night she disappeared. Uh-oh. Manley admitted to police that he had casually dated Elizabeth since first meeting a few weeks before Christmas and that he had dropped her off at the Biltmore the night she disappeared. But he flatly denied having anything to do with her murder. He told detectives, my wife and I had had some misunderstandings. I guess so.

I thought I'd make a little test to see if I were still in love with my wife. So he picked up Elizabeth at a nightclub and they hit it off. First of all, super disrespectful to your wife. Yeah. Super disrespectful to Elizabeth to be a part of a fucking test unknowingly. Yep. And third of all, fuck off. Yeah. Fuck you. You know what your hair is? Carrot-hued. Okay, ginger. All right. Okay, no soul.

All right. Yours is dyed. You have a soul. Whatever. According to Manley, he picked Elizabeth up at a Pacific Beach Motel on January 8th and drove her back to Los Angeles. But he had not connected Elizabeth with the stories in the papers and thus he did not come forward to the police. I don't know about that, my friend. I don't know. Sounds like you were doing another test to see if law enforcement would contact you. Well, investigators were also unconvinced by this. And they asked

Manly to take a polygraph examination and he agreed. But after the long drive from San Diego and many hours of intense questioning by police, he couldn't keep from falling asleep during the exam and it was postponed. That's giving rude. That's giving- That's giving what? That's giving, sir, how do you fall asleep under these circumstances? Adrenaline would be shooting me into the Kuiper belt. I mean, who knows how long they were questioning him. But that happened.

If it wasn't for like at least 12 hours, open your eyes. Well, and the thing is, here's the thing. He was very forthcoming with information, regardless of falling asleep during the polygraph. He was very forthcoming when he was conscious. When he was conscious, he was forthcoming with information, regardless of falling asleep during the polygraph. He was very forthcoming when he was conscious. When he was conscious, he was forthcoming with information. And he told police the last time he'd seen Elizabeth, he noticed several scratches on her upper arms.

And she attributed to them to an intensely jealous boyfriend. And she described him as an Italian with black hair who lived in San Diego. Okay. So we're like, who's that guy? Yeah, who is him? So although he appeared to be telling the truth, Manley's story was inconsistent with other statements gathered by police, particularly that of William Sullivan, a railway express

clerk who claimed to have seen Elizabeth on January 14th. According to Sullivan, quote, a woman resembling a woman resembling short visited the office about noon on January 14th, accompanied by a red haired man and inquired about shipping a trunk and some suitcases to Ketchkin Hospital. When asked to whom the items were being shipped, the woman said to herself and gave the name Elizabeth short. Okay. the woman said to herself and gave the name Elizabeth Short. OK. The same couple was seen about an hour later by Jadel Gray, a waitress at a cafe in San Diego.

Gray described the man as, quote, very fair complexioned and said his hair was quite straight and he was slightly freckled. OK. Sounds like a ginge. Sounds like a ginge to me. Based on these witness identifications, Manley was beginning to look like a pretty strong suspect.

He sure was. But the following day, Sullivan admitted to detectives that he had been mistaken in his identification of Manley and in fact did not believe it was the same person. Sullivan changed his story when police told him that another young woman matching Short's description had come forward to say she had been at the express office with her red-haired boyfriend on January 14th. Oh shit. When he was shown a picture of the woman, he immediately recognized her as the one person he'd seen that night. And remember, he said that she used her name. Yeah. So he just lied. Oh, what the hell? Like what the fuck? And with Sullivan's identification now recanted, the mystery of the red-haired man proved to be a dead end and Captain Jack Donahue ordered Robert Manley

released from custody immediately. All right. Now only one week into the investigation, detectives who had been certain the key to finding Elizabeth's killer was in her love life had now begun to accept the boyfriend angle was probably a dead end. Yeah, it seems like it.

They weren't gonna find him in there. And that is where we are going to end for part one. You butt head. Because we have some real suspects coming in part two. I know who they are. And it's going to get crazy. The story just gets wilder as you go. Yeah, this is a wild case.

I got a 99.9% opinion. Me too. Yeah. So we will definitely talk about that in part two and yeah. In the meantime, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you lie to the police about your whereabouts or test your fucking wife in any way. Yeah, fuck that shit. Don't test me. And don't call the victim a tease. Oh, oh, ayayada. Ayayada. Ayayada. I'm sorry. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.

Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.