Morbid - Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Spooky Lakes time, everyone! Alaina brings us to Big Moose lake in New York State and shares the tragic story of Grace Brown’s murder. Grace’s ghost has been seen many times at the lake since she was murdered in 1906 and at the nearby Covewood lodge. We then follow Ash across the country to Oregon, more specifically Crater Lake in Crater Lake National park. Ash shares about all the mysterious disappearing planes, a double murder from 1952 and of course she could never forget the Old Man of the Lake.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, weirdos, Alayna here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion, no ads, just you, and early access to new episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. It's time to shop for new styles, electronics, and plan your exciting getaway. And what if each time you made a purchase, you got a little something back?

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shopping at rakuten.ca or get the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N dot C-A. I'm Afua Hirsch. I'm Peter Frankipan. And in our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. This season, we're talking about the singer and songwriter John Lennon. His band, The Beatles, smashed musical conventions, caused hysterical adulation, and are still the biggest selling band of all time.

But that adoration obscured a complex and combustible character. He might have been singing Give Peace a Chance, but his personal life was often far from peaceful. So who was the man behind the round glasses and how does his legacy hold up today? What about you, Afferd? What's going to ring your bell about John Lennon? Is it the man, the music? There is something about the iconography of Lennon. He's got such mystique around him and I cannot wait to dig in and separate facts from fiction and find out who he really was. And of course, he started the Russian Revolution in 1917. Oh no, that's a different Lennon altogether.

Follow Legacy now from wherever you get your podcasts. And binge entire seasons early and ad free on Wondery Plus. Hey, weirdos. I'm Elaina. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. It's Morbid and today I'm being bullied in the office everybody. Honestly, I can't even like say that's not happening. I'm getting actively bullied by not only my sister, but also my employee and friend, Mikey.

I burped and you know, people burp, okay? Let me just- Hold on. I was- She's saying it like she burped and you know people burp okay and let me just know hold on I was saying it like she burped oh I just burped once no I wasn't finished yet but you're just still bullying me no we always burp a lot in here it's kind of our thing and Elena burps all the time and it literally feels like it's sprays blood at people because they feel so sharp coming out of her fucking face. It's like, you're like, oh my God, Duncan cover. Somebody call someone. She's bleeding out of every orifice. And then I burp and it, you know, they're a little liquidy. I like, like they're not liquidy. Like I taste liquid. This is

so gross. But like it's fine. They, they sound a little yuckas. Elena has told me for all of my life, but they sound like the bog of eternal stench. But today everyone decided to go deeper. It's like an episode of The Vilephiles in here. We're going deeper. And Mikey said to me, Mikey said to me, you know, actually I feel pity for, my mouth is on my jaw, unclicked from the top part, and it's on the floor. Pity? You pity me? He pities your b- which are part of me.

And so I got upset with him and then he was like, no, no, no, let me backtrack, except dig my hole even further. And he said, do you know what it is? And I looked at him and I said, don't fuck it up. Don't dig this hole. And this motherfucker got a power shovel. He said, I used to work in a hospital. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? I sound like a hospital?

This is like Mary Cosby telling me that I smell like hospital. So anyway, I'm upset. Here's the thing. You guys didn't think this episode was going to start like that? All of that was correct. What she says is true. True statements. Thank you. Except. What? She sounds like she's going to vomit every time she burps. I said they're liquidy. But we needed to really describe them. The reason is not like, oh, there's liquid involved. It's like, no, you're going to throw up. And so we all brace like, ah, she's going to puke every time.

And it's scary. I'm not gonna. Yours are scary. Yours come out of nowhere. And I agree. And sometimes they sound like a shot. Yeah. Like a baa.

I'm like, ah. And herein lies the difference. I know. I know too. I'm not dispelling. I'm not dispelling that description of my burps. I'm not dispelling it, but it hurts my feelings. You just don't have as many feelings as I do. Okay. And the pity I feel is because I love you. I don't want you to feel gross. You're making me feel gross. Get out of here! Scram! She doesn't want to talk to you! I'm getting fired. Byeee. I usually fire Mikey on the rewatch or go listen to that, but today he's fired from every job. All of it. No, just kidding. Please continue working for us. Don't leave! Don't leave! Please don't!

Anyways, I bet you never thought when we turned on Morbid today that we'd be depicting each other's burps. Sorry guys, it's been, you know, sometimes it just be like that. Yeah, today's a loosey goosey episode anyway, so I feel like it's gonna feel a lot like OG Morbid. It is today. I think we're feeling a... Oh, now you're gonna cough during my episode? I pity you, I pity you. Is that a little cough you have today? I'm screaming.

Just kidding. Oh my God, I'm literally crying. We have like a, like today's like a spooky episode, but also a true crime episode. Yeah, for both of us. There's full true crime in here. This wasn't just spooky-ooky, but there's also spooky-ooky. Yeah, there was a little part of mine

that I think I'm gonna give you a preview, like a brief overview of what happened, but I actually think I might cover part of mine on a full blown out. Like in depth. Yeah. And mine is like, there's only so much information about it, so I got as much as I possibly could

and I told the whole story. It would have been a mini morbid had I not stepped up. It's true. It would have been a mini morbid. But you know what? But you know what? Maybe they'll come back. Maybe.

Maybe. Maybe wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Maybe. 2025 is a wild year. So maybe we'll see mini morbids again. Someday. Maybe the theme song will come back. Maybe. I'm not making promise. I'm just saying it's possible. We have to find the file. Do we have that file?

Maybe you'll have to do it again. I'll do it again. An updated version. Oh, maybe I'll like add a little flair on to it if that happens. We're just like, you know, uh... I'm going to get back in the studio. Yeah, back in the stude, you know? the stude. Like really, I like that. I got the pod lab. I'm in the stude. I'm in the stude. Uh, yeah. So maybe, I don't know, that's something to chew on, but, uh, but other than that,

um, it's, we're, we're trying to spring is almost here. Everybody. It's like 20 days to spring. We're trying to, spring is almost here everybody. It's like 20 days to spring. And in New England over here, it's been fucking awful this winter. It's been fucking freezing and so goddamn dry that I've been sick the entire winter. I just got the neurovirus in fact, like luckily knock on everything,

we were able to contain it to just me, which is always the goal. But yeah, it hasn't been a banner season for me. So I'm getting on my supplement game and getting myself out of this. I'm telling you, you've got to start drinking Armarica Lostrum. I think it has saved me this winter because I got Neurovirus, but I didn't get any of the colds that you guys were all getting. I didn't get one cold this season. I know. Not one.

Yeah, it's crazy. And it tastes like watermelon. Yeah, that's true. That's a win-win right there. No colds plus watermelon. Well, I've been drinking liquid IVs. Liquid IVs are also great. We love a liquid IV.

We do. And I've just, you know, I've been doing some turmeric and elderberry and zinc and vitamin C. She got me on the turmeric. All the good things. Just trying to boost that immune, you know, immune system. You gotta. But going into it,

cause I wanna go into spring and summer and fall and all the fun seasons. Healthy. Healthy. Thriving. You know? But I've been reading a couple books that are really good. Yeah? And I figured I'd just like quickly share them with you guys in case you're looking for something to

read. Do so. So I just read Fantastic Land by Mike Bokhoven. It's really good and the audiobook is fucking phenomenal. Nice. It's super fast paced. It's like, it's basically about a bunch of people getting stranded in a amusement park during a hurricane and having to survive and it gets super gnarly.

I said nice, but. Nice, you like fun. I'm like nice, that's great. That's great for them. Good for them. It was really good though. I thought it was really fun if you're looking for something really fun, really dark, really fucked up.

Hell yeah. And right now I'm reading this Wretched Valley by Jenny Kiefer. Ooh. And so far it's really good, really spooky. I'm very intrigued by it. Nice. And we're just trying to get more leisure reading in done this year. I'm also trying to do that. We'll try to share our recommendations. Yeah. I told Elena about Storygraph. It's like where you can log all your books and it's woman

owned, which I love. Love that. I read, what have I read so far? I did So Thirsty by Rachel Harrison. I thought it was pretty good. It's like a quick read. It's fun. Yeah. Just like, like a fun vamp tale. And then I just started our book club book.

Me and Alaina have a book club with the two girls, one ghost girlies. Sabrina and Kareem. Our brother Colton Coven. Hell yeah. And we're reading God of the Woods. I just started it. I think you're going to like it. Yeah, I'm excited to start that one. It's really good.

And I've heard really good things about it. Yeah. So yeah, I have a bunch on my to be read. Yeah. My entire entire bookshelf is to be read. I have a whole space on my bookshelf that is. Yeah. Me and Drew went on a Barnes and Noble date the other day and I was like, damn, I'm just

buying all these books when I already have oh yeah 400 that I haven't even read oh I have a problem with but it it's a fun thing to buy it is I love books I will never regret buying too many books and something about Barnes and Noble I'm like I just want to buy everything here just want to buy all the books all the books mm-hmm it's true that's great I'm also on a yellow jackets kick me and drew have literally flown through each season within like, I think it took us maybe two weeks. Yeah, it was actually like very impressive.

Yeah, there was- How quickly you were able to go through that. We took some time off, you and I, for a February vacation for the kids. And there was a couple nights that Drew and I just stayed up until like 3 a.m. Like, weren't tired, like just stayed up. Yeah. And so we watched like a ton of Yellow Jackets and now we're up to like current.

You're caught up. Yeah, we're caught up. And we got John and Alina to start watching it. It's true. We're only on episode two because we can maybe only get one episode done a night. Like we have to skip nights in between and stuff. So we will get there eventually. It'll take us a while, but so far, I really... I like it. Yeah. I'm intrigued so far. It really pops off in the middle to the end of the first season. And then season three so far, I think it's only been three episodes.

The fourth one, I think, comes out tomorrow. Fourth episode. Season three is like... I'm like, oh, fuck. It really goes there. Yeah. I couldn't watch the plane crash scenes because it's a little too. Yeah, I told her. Too visceral.

I was like, tell, tell John like the end of the first one. He just told me when it was fine to watch again. And then they do like the flashback. That's a fucking scary ass plane crash. I'm sure. I'm going to be talking a lot about plane crashes today. Cool. Yeah.

That's fun. Yeah. It's part of my lake. It's part of your lake lore. My lake lore. Correct. Yeah. And honestly, that brings us right to it that we're going to be talking about some spooky

lakes today. Spooky lakes and like kind of for me, like national park, because my lake is in a national park. Yeah. There you go. Go visit national parks and support them right now. Yeah, support them. Yeah. Hell yeah. And keep them clean because a lot of people just got fired who were keeping them clean. Yeah. So go take care of them. Yeah, and support them. Yep. Good call. Yeah. So dude, I can start with mine if you want. You better. You better bitch. I was going to say you better start bitch. You better, bitch. You better. I was gonna say, you better start, bitch. You better start, bitch. You want a listener tale?

Not a listener tale. You want a spooky lake? This is a spooky lake, but it's gonna start with a very real and very tragic murder from 1906. Okay. So this is the story of Grace Brown's murder, and it is a very tragic one. Let's start at a great place, which is the beginning. I love starting there.

Grace grew up in South Otselik, I think it is, in Shenango County in New York. When she was young, she grew up on a dairy farm and she attended school and graduated at 16 years old. She had a very like normal upbringing on a dairy farm, very cute farm upbringing. Nice. All was well until she moved to Cortland She had a very like normal upbringing on a dairy farm, very cute farm upbringing. All was well until she moved to Cortland and lived with her sister Ada.

Now living with her sister, she needed to find a job and she found a good one, it turns out. She ended up working at the Gillette skirt factory in Cortland. And upon beginning her employment there, she quickly became acquainted with the owner's nephew, Chester Gillette. And upon beginning her employment there, she quickly became acquainted with the owner's nephew, Chester Gillette. He also worked there with her. He was from a wealthy family, but he was kind of all over the place.

Like he was a little bit of a mess. He could never hold down anything steady and he was kind of just living the high life with no responsibilities. Fun. So, and he was also like very much like mackin' on all the girls there, but he really focused in on grace. So his uncle had tried to get to help him on the straight and narrow and he offered him a job at the factory.

That's how he got the job. It was good pay, it was full time, so he was fine to take it because also there was a lot of women working there. That's kind of his ideal sitch. It really is. And he also probably liked the power he got there was a lot of women working there. That's kind of his ideal sitch. It really is. Um, and he also probably liked the power he got from being like the nephew of the owner. Like it's the Gillette skirt factory and his piece, Chester Gillette. Like you don't have to do like anything probably.

Yeah. So it wasn't long before 20 year old Grace and she was 19 when they met, but 20, um, when she died, um, she was 20 year old Grace and 23 year old Chester began dating. It was a torrid affair as all workplace affairs tend to be. I love a torrid affair. But it was all secret. Of course. It was all very secret, not just because they work together,

but because she was a dairy farm girl who came from a farm background. He was a wealthy man about town, socialite, who was sought after by every girl He was a wealthy man about town, socialite, who was sought after by every girl in the upper class in the area and every girl in every class in the area. He was essentially ashamed to be dating a young woman who was considered to be lower class, like lower social scale than he was. What a douchebag. He was a douchebag. He didn't want people knowing he was dating a factory farm girl.

It's like, okay, then don't date a factory farm girl because she can probably do better than you anyway. So don't waste her fucking time. Oh, she could have done so much better than him. I guarantee it. He's scum between a troll's toes. Not only was he keen to keep this thing under wraps, but he was also freely and openly dating and sleeping with other women right in front of Grace. Grace was not pleased about this and expressed this displeasure often, but he didn't give a shit. He just didn't care how she felt.

And it devastated her. Cause I think this was like, she was young and she had grown up on a farm, you know, like this was her big first big job. And I think this was like the first time she had actually been in a big relationship. Well, and also like you think about the this, you know, vibes here, like it's like the big hot shot nephew of the owner of the company

that you work for takes an interest in you. Like she must have felt so special. But then he's acting like a dick. Yeah. He also convinced her to be with him, unshaperoned, which was scandal at the time, because he didn't want anyone knowing they were together so they couldn't have a chaperone.

And honestly, this was a big deal, and obviously now you're like, woo, but back then this risked her entire reputation. Like he did not give a shit that he was putting her entire social reputation at stake here. Yeah, because he would have been fine. Yeah, he didn't care at all. He also, and he just never took her in public, ever.

He would never take her in public. That's so sad, and that's so sad that that's the treatment that she felt she was supposed to be taking at the time. It must have felt so demeaning. Yeah, absolutely. ["Jingle Bells"] Let's talk about one of my current favorites, hero bread. I am freaking obsessed with the fact that this bread is as delicious as it is, while having ultra low net carbs, zero grams of sugar, and it's high in fiber.

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I'm actually on my way there right now to get those friggin' cheddar biscuits. Oh my god. All my parents out there, I know that you never want to sacrifice quality for convenience, but listen, so many baby and kids food options today, they just don't meet the mark. But that is why I really love Little Spoon. They deliver healthy, ready-to-eat meals and snacks that your baby, toddler, or even your big kid will love and that you can actually feel good about.

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Simplify your kiddo's meal time with 30% off your first order. Go to littlespoon.com slash morbid30 and enter our code morbid30 at checkout to get 30% off your first Littlespoon order. Things got worse though near the summer of 1906 when she told Chester she was pregnant. Oh no. And it was definitely his because she was pregnant. Oh no. And it was definitely his because she was not seeing anyone else. He panicked and she was also very anxious

simply because it was 1906. It's not like unwed young mothers were treated like magical beings creating life. No. They were treated like whores who were unfit to be in proper society. Like this, in fact, from what I've, like all the things that I was reading and seeing about this,

it was literally like the amount of women, young women, who ended up killing themselves, because they felt it was a better outcome than the social ostracize, what is it? Wow. Ostratization? Yeah, that's a, why did I like, I totally blanked on how to say the word.

It's going from the T to the C. That's what it is. It's hard. Austratization. There you go. Good call. Ostracization. Oh, I was kind of saying it wrong. Ostracization.

Ostracization. That's hard to say. Yeah. Okay. It was better than being ostracized by society is what I'm thinking here. I love that you're like, you know what, we're gonna just say, we be different. I was like, that's hard to say. Anyway.

Yeah, so this was like a big deal. It's not great. So she knew she had to hide out that she couldn't be around everybody. She went back to her family's farm and she communicated with Chester through letters. It was Chester who encouraged this in fact, telling her to go hang out with her family

and everything was going to be fine. Basically go away. Get out of my face. Like you fucking dick. He's a total dick. He was very negligent with her feelings, very much still sleeping around and very uninterested in the idea of being a good partner or father. But he was also a liar and a very good manipulator.

He had to have been. It's that kind of guy. So he had to keep her on a leash a bit because he was a guy who wanted to have his cake and eat it too. Before she left, he had been ignoring her and making her feel just awful. But when the letters began, she basically found herself desperately begging him for attention or any kind of hope or hint that they would be married. Because she was like... Well, it's also like he's got this like all this money and everything. Yeah.

It's like she doesn't have any resources to figure this out. So she's relying a 100% on him to figure out their situation that they got themselves into together. Exactly. That's the thing. And she's like, so she's basically like, give me any hope that you're going to marry me so that I can go out into society again. I can't go out with this child until we're married. And she started getting the attention that she was looking for. He started telling her, yes, he would marry her

and they would have a life together and just wait, it's gonna be fine. He started promising what he knew she wanted. I feel like that's not gonna happen. No, then one letter changed that. He told her he wanted to whisk her away for a romantic getaway. And she was probably so happy. Oh yeah. He told her he wanted to take her to the Adirondacks in July. And this felt like the moment that he was going to propose. She thought this was the wedding trip, either proposing or we're actually getting married. And sources say Grace was just over the moon excited.

So they left in July and stopped at the Hotel Glenmore at Big Moose Lake and they ate at Alta Cliff Cottage and they checked in with him using an alias. So that's fucking weird. He used the alias Carl Graham and she used her real name. So that was already... I'm surprised he didn't have her use a fake name. Well, I think he's also a fucking idiot. That's good. As we'll see. So I think that was part of it.

According to the Evening Courier, a waitress there named Grace Greenwood said she witnessed them having dinner the evening before Grace was killed. And she said Grace was quote unquote hysterical at dinner. Apparently Chester was trying to console her, trying to tell her you have to eat. And she said she just couldn't. Oh God, I wonder what happened. What the conversation was. Exactly. Now the next morning this waitress saw her again and described her as quote unquote depressed.

Like she said she looked devastated. You wish that she was just able to like whisk her away. I know. That's the thing. Like a girl will get you in a separate room. Now on the way to the hotel, they took a bus and the driver asked where they wanted to go and this will just give you another little like in sight into like Chester's way of like, it sounds like he was just being a dick. So the bus, the driver was like, where do you guys want to go? And Chester just roughly answered any old hotel.

Oh, nice. Charming. Yeah. You're romantic getaway and you're just like whatever dump you wanna bring us to. Cause he didn't care. That's so shitty. So the next day he told Grace he was going to bring her for a romantic picnic and they were gonna take a boat ride.

Oh no. Despite her telling him in a letter that she didn't know how to swim. Oh, no. They rented a rowboat from a man named Robert Morrison. They got on the boat and he brought them to, and apparently, Robert didn't come on the boat with them, he just rented it to them. But Chester brought them, rode them to the deepest and most isolated part of the lake. She was probably getting more and most isolated part of the lake. Which is- She was probably getting more and more scared as this was happening.

Exactly, or even worse could be that she had no idea and just thought he was actually being like romantic. Right. And that's apparently the South Bay area is like the deepest point in the lake. Once there, nobody can really tell what exactly went down because it was only the two of them in the middle of the lake. Once there, nobody can really tell what exactly went down because it was only the two of them in the middle of the lake. But once there, what did eventually happen was he beat Grace brutally with a horn handled umbrella and a tennis racket.

Jesus. And then threw her in the lake. His pregnant mistress. Yes. Wow. Yeah. Robert Morrison, the guy who had rented them the boat, said when they didn't return the boat around dinner, he was suspicious. Of course.

But the next morning, he and a few others went out to try to find them because he was like, I hope nothing happened. And they found the empty boat in her coat and then came across her body. Oh. And she was dead. He had fled. Believable. He hid out at the Arrowhead Hotel and Inlet. And meanwhile, during the three days he hid like the coward that he was, he also called to get an

advance on his pay and received one. So he was planning on taking off. Yeah, dipping. And I love that later this fucker will pretend and be like, oh no, I'm innocent. I didn't do it. And it's like- Why were you hiding out then, nothing about how you acted said you were innocent. If this was an accident or something, which obviously it's not because she was beaten brutally,

they can tell that you dumb ass. But it's like, even if it was an accident, why would you leave your pregnant girlfriend, like almost fiance, dead in a lake and leave the boat. And then just hide out and ask for an advance on payment. Yeah. None of that makes any sense. Now when they came to, because they immediately, they talked to her family and they were like,

oh, she's with this guy, like just so immediately they went to find him. And when they did find him, he actually tried to first claim he didn't even know Grace. Come on. He is the father of her unborn child. And he claimed he didn't even know her. Also, like, I'm sure if they went to her house, they would find a pile of letters exchanged between the two of them. Of course they would. When I say this guy is a fucking idiot, he's a fucking idiot.

You also worked together. Yeah. Like, are you fucking serious? There's literally no way you can claim you don't know her. He was arrested and immediately charged with her murder. She was covered in bruises and had a good head wound and lacerations to her forehead and her mouth when she was discovered. And she was also discovered to be four months pregnant.

Four months. Four months. So she sat around for four months waiting for him just to like... Thinking he was gonna come around. That's so awful. That's heartbreaking. Because he was also making her believe Thinking he was gonna come around. That's so awful. Because he was also making her believe that he was gonna come around.

Exactly, no that's so sad to think that that long went on. Yeah, his claim was that first that she killed herself. But like. After beating herself up? No one believed that. According to the Evening Courier, they found the broken bloody tennis racket buried on the shore. Dude.

There was a lot to be made about whether she was dead before she hit the water during the trial, but the consensus did seem to be that she likely was. He had beaten her to death and thrown her in the water. He also claimed at one point that she jumped in willingly. Can't swim, remember. Well, she might have jumped in to get away from him. Exactly. And he said he tried to help her and the boat tipped over. But he arrived at the hotel he hid out at with all dry clothing.

Imagine that. The trial was bonkers. Everyone was there. He's a big name. I mean, a very wealthy family. This is a well-known bachelor. The media went wild. No one even knew he was dating this woman because they had kept it so under wraps.

Never mind that he was the father of her unborn child. And now he was a murderer of her and a child. His own child. Yeah. On December 5th, 1906, the jury deliberated for five hours and found him guilty of first-degree murder. Good. He was sentenced to die in the electric chair. Fantastic.

He spent a couple of years at Auburn Correctional Facility and apparently got some spiritual guidance along the way. And sources say he confessed to the murder to many of them. Yeah, to clear his own conscience. Exactly. He was executed March 30th, 1908. He exhausted all his appeals. He tried to get out of it.

I think his mother even wrote a letter to the governor trying to get a stay, but she couldn't. That's sad for his mom because he put her in that position. Of course it is, she didn't ask for that. She's a victim too. I'm pretty sure his grave, he was in an unmarked grave and I'm pretty sure it got paved over by a road. So there's that.

No comment. No comment on that. According to Adirondack.com, the murder of Grace Brown influenced the 1925 Adirondack folk song, The Ballad of Big Moose Lake. Because that is the lake that she was drowned in. And there's also a 1951 movie, A Place in the Sun that is based on the story. And there's also a 1925 novel, An American Tragedy that's based on it and a 1926 play about it and a 2005 opera by the same name.

And that's just a few of things that have been influenced by this. That's crazy. Now, A Place in the Sun and an American Tragedy apparently take Chester's side a lot and basically say grace- And what side is that? They basically show grace to be what Robert Stack on Unsolved Mysteries said was they called her a woman of easy virtue. Basically a hoe. So we're slut shaming in the 20th century.

And that she should be murdered while pregnant because of that. Oh good, fantastic. So like fuck those two things. Yeah, fuck them. Now, that isn't the end of the story because people keep seeing grace. Oh, that breaks my heart that she's at the lake.

I hate that she's stuck there. Yeah, she's stuck at the lake. People keep seeing a complete apparition of a glowing woman walking the shores of Moose Lake or across the surface of the lake. That's really cool. Yeah. And also see her walking down the halls of the Big Moose Inn where she stayed. If she's not wandering the shore, people will have seen her struggling in the lake trying

to get help, almost like a repeat of what's happening. Sometimes she's seen at the cottages along the lake and like the lodge there and apparently she likes to turn off the lights all the time. She doesn't like lights on. And I wonder if that's because it's like the 1906 of it all. She's like, I didn't live with electricity. What is this? Maybe it's too bright. I kind of think it's too bright. According to Weird New York, sometimes people recall feeling intense sadness around the lake, almost like an uncontrollable dread.

They theorize that she and her child being killed trapped her there and she's somehow unable to continue to move on. I want to go there and help her. Which makes me so sad. I know. Let's go. I want to. I hate that she's trapped there with all sad. I know. Let's go. I want to. I hate that she's trapped there with all this sadness around her.

Yeah, she doesn't deserve that. Now, this was also featured on an episode of the OG Unsolved Mysteries. I heard you watching it the other day. That's right, with King Robert Stack. I heard that intro. I heard that smooth butter voice. Yeah. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

They talked about a group of people in this episode that worked at the Covewood Lodge in 1988, that's near Big Moose Lake. One of them, Rhonda, said she stopped at the staff lodge to turn out the lights. And she was with a group of three other people who worked at the lodge. And as soon as she went in, she said she felt like someone was there. And she said she went up to like the top floor where like there's a balcony overlooking where her friends were in the lake. And she said, she didn't see anything, but she said she just like knew someone was there. Like felt her presence.

Like just felt that. And she said it was very strange, very, very unsettling. And outside, meanwhile, her friends saw a woman standing on the balcony, glowing in white, like fully in like a 1906 garb. And she just was standing there looking out onto the lake. And then she just stood there and they all three of them said the same thing, that they saw the same thing. And they said she stood there and then all of a sudden just dissipated and was gone. The tingly's that are happening all over my body. Imagine seeing that. I would, my goosebumps have goosebumps. And they all say that she's

like has such a sad look on her face. And she's just looking out over the lake. Because she just loved him and he couldn't give a shit and then he's a piece of shit killed her and her and their unborn child. We gotta get her out of there. She deserves so much better. We gotta get her out of there. Because she's got to move on to her next life, which is gonna be like a million times better. She does, with her bebe. With her bebe, with a man, a better husband. Exactly. And the same episode tells the story of Linda Lee Mackin and her friend Bridget, who vacationed at the lake around the same time. And they had flashlight issues because I really don't think Grace likes this electricity business. They were

going down to the lake and the flashlight kept dimming and then just shut off, but the batteries were brand new. And they said it kept happening. And one night they went down to the lake together, just sitting there and it was really dark out. And they saw a mist coming close to them, like over the top of the lake. And they were like, wow, that's so pretty, like so spooky. And then they said, all of a sudden, the mist formed into a woman. And they said, who just looked at them. And they literally said, with such extreme sadness, that's all they could get from her. And they said, and actually Linda said she felt extreme overwhelming sadness herself. She was like, it was literally like, I immediately felt just hopelessness and sadness. And she said it was overwhelming.

And then the next day they were in the lodge and they were walking through the lobby and there's memorabilia about this, like old newspapers and shit and there's photos of Grace and Chester. And they said you couldn't knock them over with a feather because they were like, we saw that picture of Grace and we were like, that is the woman that appeared to us last night. Can you imagine having an experience like that jarring? That would blow my fucking mind. Until April 2nd, sky-high elegance at dream prices during the Air France Rendezvous.

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Follow the Spy Who on the Wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of The Spies Who Invaded Suburbia early and ad-free with Wondery Plus. And she just appears to you like sad. I'd be like, what can I do to help you? I know. Like I would not say that in that moment because I would probably shit my pants. I'm not pretending.

I'd be like, what can I do to help you? I would be so confident. But looking- My shit would not be rocked at all. Yeah, like I would just be like, what can I do to help you pass through? I would go into help mode. No, I would not be rocked at all. I would just be like, what can I do to help you pass through? I would go into help mode. No, I would not, I'm not claiming that.

But looking back on it, you wanna be like, fuck, I wanna stand in front. Now if she appears, you wanna be like, what can we do to help you? Grace. How can I get you not here? I know. Because I don't want you to be on this lake, it's sad.

Oh my God, Bumber, Ghost Whisperer. Yeah, I never watched that. It was Jennifer Love Hewitt, right? Yeah, Jennifer Love Hewitt. Yeah, J Love. J Love. She was so helpful. She was such an empath. Good for her, man. I'm sure you used to scare the shit out of me as a kid though. I'm sure you probably shouldn't have been watching it. Yeah, probably not. But I always loved the end though, because she would help them like find the light and cross over. That's nice. Yeah. I like that. I know. I want to help Grace find whatever she needs to find. But that is the story of Grace Brown's tragic, tragic murder and her now at Big Moose Lake and

now her haunting at Big Moose Lake. Mine's a little more wily than that and a little more all over the place. All right, let's go. All right, we're heading out to Oregon. All right, let's go. I want to say Oregon. Let's go Oregon trail. We're going to Oregon. I'm going to talk about Crater Lake, which is located inside of Crater Lake National Park, if you can believe it.

I can't. It is the deepest lake in the United States. That's really scary, and I don't like that. And one of the deepest, actually, in the world. No, I actually hate that. Same. It has an average depth of about 1500 feet. Shut the fuck up. But that's not even as deep as it goes. That's the average.

The deepest parts are said to be close to 2000 feet deep. Like just think of everything that would be lurking underneath you as you treaded water. No. I had to say that to you. No. You actually really shouldn't swim in this lake. It's not very allowed, but- Don't do it. There's like certain parts where you can. It's not very allowed. I was waiting for that to hit you. It's not very allowed. It's not very allowed. It's not very allowed. There's certain places where you can, but overall it's too cold and too deep. Like, they don't recommend it. It's way too deep. Don't do that. Yeah. Yeah. What's that? Insane. It's like fucking cave diving. Don't do that. Well, don't do that.

Do it. No. Well, the formation of this lake is crazy. It formed over 7,700 years ago. Badass. Which is crazy. When Mount Mazama,, the volcano erupted. Now, the eruption was so large and so cray-cray that it weakened the structure of the volcano itself. The volcano emptied its entire magma reservoir, and then it all just collapsed in on itself, and that's what formed where the lake is. That's what happened to me when I had neurovirus. You got rid of your entire magma reservoir. The entire magma reservoir, and then I collapsed and all myself. Iconic.

That's literally, I've never, I didn't know how I felt in that moment, and that's exactly the description. Oh wait, just picture that happening to a land mass. No, that's actually the scariest thing I've ever heard. It literally created a five to six mile wide caldera, so like just like a crater essentially, which over time got filled with rainwater and like melted snow and shit. And that's Crater Lake. The fact that it is just an exploded volcano that collapsed in on itself. Like a volcano that emptied its entire magma reservoir, which weakened the stability of it.

And then it just like just in on itself. It did in fact. And then it's like, I just like looking up at a volcano. Must be unbelievable. Like just the size. That would give me the chili willies. Yeah, must be unbelievable, like just the size. That would give me the chili willies. Just the massive like the structure in front of you.

And then to think of that the other way. Yeah. And filled with water. Yeah. Like that is just like my mind is like bending around that. Well, like tech, I looked it up cause I was like, okay, so like, could it erupt still? Technically it could still erupt. Oh, shit. But it wouldn't be like a typical volcano eruption,

obviously. Yeah, it would be a weird ass one. Yeah, I don't think anybody really knows exactly what would happen. My god, Crater Lake is scary, guys. It's so scary. It's so big. It's also surrounded by like all this like, like mountain area. Yeah, beautiful, but it's, it's got a vibe. It is, it's gorgeous, but it is. It's a rough terrain. Knowing what that is, is like, oh. Yeah. So I'm not even gonna be able to hit like, I'm hitting like the tip of the iceberg here

cause so many different things have happened. We could honestly probably do a part two of Crater Lake. Cool, let's do it. Because it's got all kinds of crazy stuff going on. There's some kind of water monster that people have reported seeing. Fun. Like small little tails, but they're fun. I love a Nessie situation. There's paranormal parts of this. Yep. The biggest thing that seems to be related to Crater Lake is disappearing planes. Oh. And like, like disappearing. Oh. Just like

there and then not. I don't love that. Seemingly inexplicable plane crashes have also taken place all around this area. And unfortunately, there have been murders. Oh, man. Now some of this haunted slash morbid TM activity could have to do with the lakes origin story. So according to the Klamath tribe, who lived on the land where crater Lake National Park now stands, but like way before it became a national park. The god of the underworld, who I believe is Lao, I looked it up, some pronunciations say Yao, but I saw Lao more often. So the god of the underworld fell in love with the chief's daughter. And when he couldn't take her back to the underworld as his bride, he promised he was going to do something real big to get back at this tribe.

It's giving Hades and Persephone. Very much. Yes. And that is when the volcano erupted, massively causing the giant caldera. Holy shit. But luckily, the sky spirit, Skell, stepped in to protect the tribe from what was happening and came face to face with Lau in a pretty heated battle. The battle is said to

have ended when Skell killed Lao and threw him into the lake. According to journalist Sarah Crocker, who I got a lot of information from, she wrote an article for grunge.com, it's called A Look at Crater Lakes Morbid History. But according to Sarah, Lao's body was eaten by monsters who were living at the time. Oh, it's kind of like the realm of monsters from Moana. Yes, exactly. But they left his head untouched. They said, no, I don't want that. So it's just bobbing around the lake. So people believe now, especially the people that belong to this tribe, that Lao still haunts the area and the lake specifically. That is so scary.

It's the scariest. What a fascinating origin story. I love that origin story. They say that they don't think anybody should even look at the lake too long because they believe it will cause, quote, death and lasting sorrow. Holy shit. So deep and creepy and spooky. Damn. So let's flash forward to the spring of 1944 for our first bizarre instance. During World War I, II, I think

it's Grumman, TBF torpedo bombers were flying over the lake, most likely running a drill of some kind. There was a Navy, a military base nearby. Okay. It was said to be a completely clear day as they were flying over the lake. Each pilot was keeping track of the other. The pilot who survived this drill said suddenly he looked over and just didn't see the plane that was supposed to be flying with him. It he like looked below him. He didn't see it like falling out of the sky or anything like that. It was just gone, just disappeared into thin air. What the fuck? Now, there's a lot of mysteries surrounding this particular case, but it's a story connected to the case that's been told for decades. Some people even say they saw a plane flying low that day and then disappear around the area of the lake. Really? But not real, there's like never been

any names associated with it. It's never been like confirmed or denied to have happened Yeah, it's just been like very hush hush and a lot of people think it's so hush hush Because the government didn't want to say much about it because we were still actively involved in World War two I mean that does make sense and it wouldn't have been like a great look for a Baller plane to just go missing disappear over a lake. But it's entirely possible that this happened. Yeah. There is also a ton of other military planes that are said to have either crashed into or near Crater

Lake throughout the years, or just completely vanished in or around the lake. But there's no actual records to be found. So could be legends based on the lake's history, but it could be a hush-hush thing. Yeah. Now one plane in February of 1975 that did in fact disappear near Crater Lake wasn't found for seven years.

Holy shit. Seven years. There were three people on that plane and on the return flight the pilot Dave Nunn and two student pilots Jim Pryor and Matt Perkins, who were only 17 years old at the time. Oh, that's heartbreaking. So they were on the return flight. Jean Nunn had driven her husband, Dave, her daughter and her grandchild to the airport that night.

And she said that she had a feeling for two weeks beforehand that something was going to happen in her family. She just had this weird feeling she couldn't shake, but she didn't know obviously what it was going to be. Yeah. What are you supposed to do? She didn't know who it was she didn't know obviously what it was going to be. What are you supposed to do? She didn't know who it was going to happen to. When it was going to happen. Yeah, she just had a feeling, but she didn't think it was going to be her husband. Now, this trip was supposed to be simple.

They were going to fly to Salem, Oregon on Dave's private plane, a blue Cessna 182, and they were dropping off Gene and Dave's daughter and their grandchild, and then they were flying back to Klamath Falls, Oregon. This flight literally should have taken only 45 minutes. Like it's a super quick flight. So after dropping everybody off at the airport, Jean went home and she said she felt a chill, so she cozied up under an electric blanket and just fell asleep. Because again, this isn't supposed to be, her husband's not supposed to be gone long. She's like, all right, I'm just going to take a little nap, go to sleep.

But she said she woke up that night around 930 and she felt the sensation of a hand on her leg. And she immediately knew that something had happened to Dave. I just got so many chills. She ended up writing a book about it, but she said the feeling just washed over her. And she immediately knew. So she called the airport and she got as soon as she got on the phone she said the plane must have gone down at 9 20 and Dave died at 9 30. I know it. Holy shit. They confirmed that they lost track of the plane on the radar at exactly 9 20 that night. What the fuck. It was exactly what she said. Now weeks and weeks went by, search parties were trying to find this

plane anywhere they could find the wreckage. Weeks turned into months, months turned into years, and finally seven years later in July of 1982 a hiker ended up coming across the wreckage just outside of Crater Lake National Park. That must be the most horrifying thing to come in contact with is a plane crash. And you're just out hiking, you're supposed to have this great day with nature. Yeah, and you just find a plane crash. What the fuck? And three people inside of it. He found three skeletons inside of it. Oh my god.

Who are the two 17-year-old student pilots and Jean's husband. Oh, Jean's husband. But she said she knew. She knew all those years. Wow, Jean. Yeah, crazy. Holy she knew, she knew all those years. Wow, Jean. Crazy. Holy shit, I wanna read her book. It's really, yeah, let me tell you what it's called. I'm like damn, Jean.

Yeah, her book is called We Fly Away. Oh, Jean. I know there's a picture of her with like scrapbooks and one of these articles in the Herald, what is it, the Herald News or something? The Herald News. Yeah, she, it's picture of like Dave, who was a stunner. A stunner, honey. A stunner. Yeah. That's so sad.

And just like how cool to be a pilot and just be able to like fly your daughter and your grandchild home. And he was just trying to teach these two students. Yeah, just like they were passionate about it. So sad. It makes me so sad. But also like so beautiful in a way that he was able to tell Jean that he had passed and she knew, like she was able to like understand.

And in such a way that was like really comforting. Yeah, probably, exactly. Now another plane that crashed and then disappeared unfortunately took much longer to find. Back in December of 1945 there were seven Grumman Hellcat fighter planes that were taking flight over Crater Lake National Park. They were on their way to Washington. Now it was really foggy this day. There was a lot of fog especially lingering over the lake and while they were going through it some of the pilots couldn't clearly see others. So they made it through the fog and they realized that there were not seven planes flying anymore.

One plane, which was flown by 22 year old Ensign Frank Lupo, was just completely gone. Holy shit. Like lost track of it. Now before they went through the fog, a couple of the other pilots did see him trying to change a gas tank like while they were still flying but obviously something had happened and a couple of the other planes pilots saw Lupo's plane start to descend slowly which I can't even imagine seeing that and that's your friend that you like you're out on this mission with like you know something bad is happening and you can't stop it. Yeah. So flash forward to almost 25 years later in August of 1970 when a park ranger who was new, newly working at Crater Lake National Park,

he was hiking through the park and he just casually stumbled upon a human skull. Oh, yep. Welcome to the job. So obviously he had to go report that to his head of department. Yep. He had an interesting way of doing so. He told the story and then just presented the head, taking it out of his backpack and putting the skull onto his boss's desk. I mean, here, none of us know. None of us know unless we've come across one. Definitely like don't move a skull that you find in the woods. Yeah, like we can say that with confidence. Definitely leave that there. But I also understand, again, this is the 70s,

so we didn't have all that information. And he was probably freaked out. He was probably freaked out. And he probably didn't think anyone was gonna believe him. And he probably didn't wanna leave it there because an animal could get it and move it. And then he's just this crazy new guy. Yeah, and it's not like he has a cell phone

to pop a picture really quick to be like, here it is. Let's go find it. Exactly, so instead he brought it with him and he popped it on his boss's desk I guess that leaves no doubts it does from Wondery I'm Matt Ford and I'm Alice Levine and we're the hosts of British Scandal and for our next series we're the hosts of British Scandal. And for our next series, we're taking you back to the 80s. This is Thatcher's Britain.

These are the boom years. Hmm, but boom is notoriously so often followed by bust. It is, and that's the case for Asil Nadir. He built one of the UK's biggest conglomerates of the 1980s, a jewel in the FTSE 100, and he built it with just his bare hands, a fertile imagination and a whole heap of lies. Ah yes, the important ingredient. We love lies on British scandal. This sounds absolutely perfect. The only thing that could make it better would be the Prime Minister herself, maybe a trophy wife and a bonkers escape from the law

on a two-seater propeller plane. I live to serve Alice. This story has all that and more. To listen to Thatcher's favourite fraudster, follow British Scandal wherever you listen to your podcasts and binge entire seasons early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. But after the discovery, investigators went out to where the skull was found and they ended up finding the remains of the Hellcat plane. Holy shit. And they found a piece of equipment with a serial number on it. So they were able to determine that it was Lupo's missing plane. Holy shit. And they found a piece of equipment with a serial number on it so they were able to determine that it was Lupo's missing plane. Holy shit. And in a bit of happier, happier ending, Lupo's remains ended up being sent to his family. Oh, that's

nice. So he could get laid to rest, sort of. So now onto something very sinister. In 1952, 55-year-old Charles Colhane and 56-year-old Albert Jones were found dead on Annie Creek in the National Park. The area where they were found is only about six miles from the lake. Whoa. Both men worked for General Motors and were in Oregon for work. But while they were in the area, they

planned to go on a fishing trip with these two other guys in the car business, Jack Vaughn and Frank Eberlein. So Jack, Frank and Frank's 13 year old son, Alan, showed up to the park with plans to meet up with the guys. But they were surprised when they only found their car, keys still in the ignition and the front doors both open. It was like a little bit weird. But they were like, maybe they went to sightsee

or something while they were waiting for us. Yeah, like strange, but not like... Yeah, not super alarming. Yeah. So they waited a little bit to see if Albert and Charles would show back up, but they gave it 45 minutes and they still hadn't come back. Now it's alarming. Now it's alarming. So the two older men decided to drive down to a ranger station while Alan stayed behind in case the two men showed up. Okay. Yeah. 13-year-old Alan is just waiting in the back of his dad's car and he sees a dark sedan pull into the lot and kind of like slowly pass by and take up he's looking like this driver takes a look at the the car that's parked that's empty and then speeds off onto the highway. Huh. So he's like, okay. Like that was weird.

Yeah, that was weird. So shortly after that, Park Rangers made it up that way and started the search for these two men. They enlisted trail crews to join the search effort as well. The search went on for a day and a half until finally the two men were found. And there's a lot of strange details about how they were found.

They had both been shot in the back of the head at such close range that there was gunpowder residue and burn marks around the bullet. So it was execution style. Yeah. They both were shot by a quote 7.6 I think it's 7.65 millimeter automatic pistol of foreign manufacture. Okay. Which was weird. And investigators also found two brass cartridges on the ground. They were each missing their shoes, but it looked like the shoes were taken after they were killed because their socks were clean. Huh.

Albert's shoes were found not too far from the scene, but Charles shoes are still missing to this day. This case is unsolved. Wow. Though somebody did try to pawn a very similar pair of shoes after the bodies were found. Interesting. They both had also been gagged with their own neckties and part of Charles's undershirt, which is strange because they were both still wearing their dress shirts. So they had to have been like, like part of the shirt had to have been torn off and that like a

struggle or he was redressed at some point. It's very strange. Yeah. And it's like, did they take the shoes off after they were killed? Or did they take them off after they got them down on their knees? Right. So they couldn't run? Who knows? I don't know. Possibly. Yeah, maybe. Both stocks are clean. Yeah. Now even stranger, both men's dentures were found in the pockets of their dress shirts. Huh. Like what?

Their wallets were emptied. They both were assumed to be carrying around $300 and that was gone. And lastly, they both were wearing watches previously that were gone now. Shit. So it looked somewhat like a robbery, but like a very...

A bizarre one, I thought. Like an execution murder robbery. Right. So later, an autopsy would show that Albert had a fractured skull, and both men had been hit so hard in their groin areas that they were bruised. Oh, God. Yeah, so they put up a fight, and they were...

They went through a lot before they died. It definitely seemed like there was more than one killer also to investigate. Yeah. They were both pretty big guys too. So it was unlikely to investigators that one person alone took them out. Now, like I said, the case is technically unsolved, but there were some good leads that came in after the murders. I don't want to go into every single one and I'm really giving you like a brief overview here. Cause you want to cover it in depth. Cause I do want to cover this. There's a little taste.

There's a little taste. But what I will tell you is that afterwards, after like this got out to the public, a couple reported seeing two quote dirty unkempt men in an old car near the crime scene. Now interestingly another man who was working a delivery route in the area had also seen what he described as two scruffy looking men leading two nicely dressed men into the woods near Annie Creek on the day of the murders. And he said he noticed this and he also noticed one of the nicely And he said he noticed this and he also noticed one of the nicely dressed guys make a symbol to the other guy, like a hand symbol, like a gun. So basically trying to tell the other guy like, fuck, they have a gun or something like

that. Like trying to like subtly warn him. And he said he also saw a black Pontiac coupe parked on the shoulder around the corner from the scene, which if you remember, Alan saw a dark sedan. So that's interesting. Now this guy, this driver was driving again in the area the next day, and he kept running into those same scruffy men

that he saw before, and they were clearly making a point to intimidate him, he said. They stared him down, they ended up blocking him in at a gas station at one point, driving that same black Pontiac that he had seen on the day of the murders. So now he saw the car near the scene, but now he knows they're the ones driving it. And they just overall seem to be following him. But obviously because of this,

he was able to get a good look at them. One of the men who seemed to be the older one of the two, he said had quite a few distinguishable details that this guy remembered. And the witness, his name is Lincoln. So the man who had all these memorable characteristics was wearing a beaded belt that said Ralph. He had a tattoo of a woman in a bikini, and he was also missing one of his fingers. Oh, sure. So you'll remember that.

Yeah, you'll remember a nine-fingered guy. You sure will. Unfortunately, you'll remember a nine-fingered guy. You sure will. Unfortunately, the authorities didn't really take Lincoln's story too seriously. Like he kept, he kept telling them all this information, but it seems like some of his reports weren't even recorded at all. Like there are some that are on record and some like he was like, I also gave additional information. It's just nowhere. Yeah. He said they that he thought the police thought he was a smart aleck because remember this is It was just nowhere. Yeah. He said that he thought the police thought he was a smart aleck.

Because remember, this is the 50s. Yeah, so they did think he was a smart aleck. They definitely did. But weird. Almost 50 years after the murders and Lincoln's experience with two scruffy looking men, somebody knew got eyes on the case. A woman named Cheryl was taking a class at a local college

when she heard the story about the murders all those years ago. And she just got deeply fascinated with this case and like started going down all these rabbit holes, getting every last detail together. And she ended up writing a paper about the murders for her class. And it was like, it was a really well done paper. So she ended up giving a presentation later on the paper at a local museum like in this area. Cheryl. Yeah she's a queen. So the presentation was attended by a ton of people who signed in before joining the discussion and Cheryl's friend told her that the last man to walk into this whole presentation was suspicious looking and while Cheryl was still presenting some of the paper, this man

went down and started looking through the list of names of people who had signed in, like like very into it, like studying this list. The other thing that they noticed about this man, her friend, he was missing a finger. Shut up. Shut the fuck up. Yup, but that's all I'm gonna give you because I wanna cover it in its entirety. Oh my God. Weird though.

What the fuck? Now what I will tell you is it's technically unsolved, but there is a good set of suspects for this murder. All right. Or these murders, I should say. Wow, that's fascinating. Isn't that a story, Michelle? Now onto the paranormal. Okay. Or these murders, I should say. Wow, that's fascinating. There's a lot of stories in each home. Yeah.

Now, onto the paranormal. Apparently, park rangers in the Crater Lake National Park will see campfires burning in areas where they're restricted. Oh, that's spooky. Now, they'll go all the way out, and they'll say, like, we see campfires, we see people around the campfires, and then they'll go out to confront the campers and be like, you can't have a fire here. And they'll get all the way out to where they saw this all happening and there will be nobody there and no campfires lit. That must be so maddening and so freaking creepy because you're like what

was bidding me out here? What the fuck was I seeing? Yeah exactly. Yeah apparently this happens a lot around Wizard Island. Wizard Island? You heard me. Wizard Island was formed way back when the volcano erupted and is named that because it apparently resembles a wizard's hat, like from an overhead shot. Bitch. Yep. There's also another island in the lake called Phantom Island. Phantom Island? This lake is crazy. This lake is the tits. I love it. Phantom Island is named that because depending on what angle you're looking at it from, you'll see it and then it's like this weird optical illusion where if you move slightly or like you see it at a different

time of day, you'll see the island and then you won't suddenly. Like it like literally disappears in your line of vision. That's really spooky. And also Wizard Island does look like a wizard town. It does. Correct. And that's where a lot of the Phantom Fires are seen. Oh shit. Yeah. Now finally on to the water monster of it all. Yeah absolutely. There have been at least two sightings of the monster, the monster. The monster, what is that? I was gonna say the water monster. The water monster. And people say it looks like a dragon, kind of like Nessie. Cool.

Like the Loch Ness monster. We love Nessie here. In one instance, there was a group of friends who saw the Crater Lake dragons swim under their robot. Oh my God. What's happening? I'm losing it. Crater Lake is getting to you.

In one instance, a group of friends saw the Crayta Lake dragons swim under their rowboat. And they were so terrified that they hauled ass back to land and were like flagging Rangers down being like, we just saw a straight up creature in the lake. We just saw a dragon. Like, what is that? And they're like, there's fish in the lake. I don't know. Imagine if there's a straight up dragon in that lake.

I am fully of the mindset that there is. At this point, yeah. am fully of the mindset that there is. At this point, yeah, fully of the mindset. Probably. Basically nobody believed them. They were like, yeah, are you like high? Like, are you good? And they're like, no. I'm high on dragon sighting is what I'm high on.

We saw what we saw and yeah, now we are high on dragon sightings. But they're not the only group of people to have seen this monster. Of course they're not because it's real. A woman who was visiting the area from Georgia also wanted to do a little rowboat day of her own. Yeah, you couldn't fucking pay me money, but go right ahead. You could pay me money and I would do it. I would do it probably without paying you.

I'll watch from the shore. Watch from Fenton Island. But she said that she saw the giant sea creature swimming away from her boat. She saw it herself too. What the fuck? And everybody describes it like a dragon-like creature. That's the coolest shit I've ever heard. I'm obsessed with it. You can also buy postcards of it if you want to because now they lean in. Hell yeah. If you got a Nessie, you better go full Nessie.

Lean in. Yeah. Don't you dare try to dispel the Nessie. Exactly. Now I have a few honorable mentions. There wasn't like a ton of information on these things, but they happened. Worth mentioning. Yeah, worth mentioning. Many Bigfoot sightings. Oh, we love that. Rangers will smell something real bad, investigate it, and then just get a barrage of pine cones thrown at them.

That's the funniest shit I've ever heard. I'm obsessed with it. I love that Bigfoot, I almost said big face. I love that Bigfoot is just like, get the fuck out of here. No, no, no, no, no. He throws a bunch of things. is just like, get the fuck out of here. No, no, no, no, no. Don't look at me. Get out of here. There was also a 1997 UFO sighting. Oh, hell yeah, there was. Three lights flashed across the sky and then there was like a ton of weird flashes of lights. And then those three lights seemed to just disappear into the water. Oh. Yeah.

UFOs underwater, man. I mean, it's happening a lot lately. That thing's 2000 feet deep in some spots. So many places to go. There's definitely UFOs down there. Oh, the places though. Oh, the places though, you know? Yeah.

And finally, my favourite part of Crater Lake is the old man of the lake. It's my favourite part too, and I don too and I don't know anything about it. He's not a man. He's actually a giant 30-foot mountain hemlock that just floats around the lake upright, which like obviously doesn't make sense from a gravity standpoint. From a reality standpoint. From this life standpoint. He just floats upright in the lake with about three feet. It used to be four, but you know, weather and global warming and all that. Now just three feet of him stick out of the lake surface.

Oh, there he is. Isn't he so cute? There he is. He just floats around. But what the fuck? But there's more to him than that. Apparently he controls the weather. Yeah, of course he does. He does. Because in 1988, there was a group of researchers who were going to survey the bottom of the lake with a submersible, which, fuck that. Yeah, no, you couldn't ever have me do that. But they were worried that the submersible might run into the old man and break or something. Yeah.

So they took him over to Wizard Island, and, you know, break or something. Yeah. So they took him over to Wizard Island, of course. Yeah, of course. And they tied him to the shore. And in no time, the weather took a 180-degree turn. They were not even able to launch their submersible because storm clouds rolled in, and it got so bad that it started snowing.

Like, the weather was going insane. Because you can't hold him down. Nicole Sarris You can't hold him down. Nicole Sarris Don't you dare tether the old man of the goddamn lake. Nicole Sarris Not my man's. Nicole Sarris I too would make the weather go fucking lawless if you tied me to the side of it. Nicole Sarris Lawless.

The old man is lawless. Nicole Sarris The old man of the lake is lawless. Nicole Sarris He really is. Nicole Sarris He follows no rules. Nicole Sarris And he doesn't have to. Nicole Sarris Well, listen. Nicole Sarris I'm not asking him to. He really is. He follows no rules. And he doesn't have to. Well, listen. I'm not asking him to. I'm not either.

The second they untied him, the weather went right back to beautiful. Yeah, that's all he wanted. Like almost instantly. That's all he asked for. He wants to be free. Yeah, that's how you can't hold him down. Now there's a lot of theories as to how old man

just like floats upright because again it makes no sense personally I think it's because he's the most magical thing that we've ever come across in life. Some people think his density has increased over time because it's the wall he's been in the water for so long. No. But I don't think so. Yeah. He's just he's a maverick. He's he is a maverick but he's magic as well. He's a magic maverick. He's a maverick. He is a maverick, but he's magic as well. He's a magic maverick. He's a maverick. And that is the tip of the iceberg about Crater Lake. Holy shit.

I might do a part two on Crater Lake. Part two's gotta come, yeah. Because there's some other disappearances that have taken place there. Oh yeah, we gotta... I'm sure I could probably find some more plane crashes that have gone down. Oh yeah, we gotta touch upon Crater Lake again. Yeah, I love Crater Lake. And I'm very interested to hear more about that double have gone down. Oh yeah, we got a touch upon Crater Lake again. Yeah, I love Crater Lake.

And I'm very interested to hear more about that double murder. Yes. Cause that was shocking. Yeah, me and Dave are gonna start working on that one real soon. Me and Dave. So keep a lookout for that.

Hell yeah. We hope you enjoyed my rant in the beginning about how I'm being bullied. I feel a little safer in the office now. Yeah, you know. Now that we've talked about Crater Lake. We got it out. Yeah. The old man is there. The old man is on my side. He's on everyone's side. I'll use the old man to... Because we'll never hold him down. We'll never hold him down. I just

want to be one with him. I just want to hold onto him and float around the lake. Just bother around the lake. Actually, I don't because it's too deep. No, fuck that. But I do want to see the dragon. I want to see the dragon. Yeah, and I want to see Grace the dragon. I want to see the dragon. Yeah and I want to see Grace. Yeah. I want to help her. I know I just want to send Grace home. I know we have so many places we have to go. Oh the places we'll go. Yeah yeah. Full circle. Well we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't check out these lakes man. Do that. Yay water. Bye. Bye. I'm sorry. If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus

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