Morbid - Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

Join us for a special bonus episode with Tobias Forge, the man behind the mythos that is The Band Ghost. Hear exclusive news about their latest album, the process behind the music and some you heard it here first moments. If you haven’t already, make sure to check out the new music video for Satanized! Want more? Preorder the album 'Skeleta' which drops on 4/25/25! See Ghost LIVE in the upcoming SkeleTour World Tour! Grab the 4 issue 'Sister Imperator Comic'! You can find all things Ghost on https://ghost-official.com/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey, Weirdos. I'm Ash. I'm Alaina. And I'm Tobias. And this is a very special episode of Orbit that we have been lightly teasing for a few weeks. I'm sure everybody's like, what the fuck is going on? Lightly. Who is coming on the show lightly? Today we have prolific songwriter and storyteller with 10 billion streams, which is astronomical,

five Grammy nominations, American Music Awards, iHeartRadio Music Awards, and a vast congregation of very devout fans. We have Tobias Forge from Ghost. Welcome to Morbid. Thank you so much. You're making me blush here. That's the plan right out the gate. Thank you so much for talking to us.

This is awesome. Um, you've had, you just came off of really in the last few months, an epic tour, I would say is the, the least way we can describe it. It was basically two years. Uh, yeah, I guess, I guess it's stretched over two years. I don't remember exactly, but something like that. Yeah, it's insane. You also just put out the highest grossing

hard rock cinema event in North America. No big deal. Casual. Very casual. You've gone on kind of like a media sabbatical in between and you've written an entire album. And you also collaborated with Dark Horse Comics to expand the whole ghost lore with a four issue comic book arc, which is really cool.

Are you a vampire is our first question or do you sleep? Considering the fatigue, I feel I'm, there were definitely moments where I felt like clear signs that big endeavors like that are better handled singularly. I don't know whatever you call it. You do one thing at a time. It's very hard to keep focus. Somehow I managed to do that, but it was definitely hard.

You know, the good thing about the film was that a large part of it was based on footage that we'd already secured, that we'd already shot in LA. So that was a good lion share of the content, if you will. Sometimes with making records or making films, you just have to stay on script. You just do what we decided. My problem is that I don't really work like that. I'm sort of off the cuff doing improvising stuff. And so any project will demand a lot of my mental presence and acuity, which is fun when you've done it, but it can be really tiresome. And I've definitely sort of not to be ageist here, but I'm sort of approaching that age when I start feeling a little bit of a result when things a little bit too much.

So, that makes sense. But you know, obviously it wasn't too much because I'm here now. Yeah, you're doing okay. I feel like it's working out. Yeah, you know, obviously it wasn't too much because I'm here now. Yeah. You're doing okay. I feel like it's working out. Yeah. You know, I feel that though. I literally, if I do two book signings in like a week, I'm like toast for three weeks. So I have no idea how you did two full years of a tour and did all the things you did

afterwards, I would be gone. Yeah. I don't know what to answer that. I mean, it's also the good thing. This is the weird thing about my job compared to, you know, friends that I have that make films or friends that I have have that are just writing songs all the time that might not have much of an artistic career, but more just like writing and is that they just go from one creative to another. And even though I'm, you know, constantly creating to a certain degree, I also flip flop between a creative period to a less creative period. That is the tour where

she you you you're creative in the beginning, but it is actually more of a, dare I say, more of like a normal job in the sense that you show up in time and you do your job and then you're done. Yeah, right. The creative work is done in a sense. The creative job is like, oh, it never ends. I have to make the thing. It's always, what? It's like the creative part is like, I have to make this whole thing. And then that's just like, all right, let's go through the, but we got to do it now.

Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Well, before we get to, we're going to go fully into what is next for ghosts, what has happened. I had one quick little side quest I needed to take you on before we get into it. I don't know if you have heard, but they think that they have named Jack the Ripper. And I need to know if you think that they named Jack the Ripper.

Tell me his name. So you haven't, they think it's Aaron Kosminski. Okay. No. They, I don't know if you've ever, cause I know you're like, you're into the case. You've researched the case, obviously. Have you heard of like the Catherine Edo shawl that they claim was at the crime scene? Yes, I know that there is a DNA question mark on that.

For some reason, it's been everywhere that they are 100% sure that this shawl has led to the identity and they think it's Erin Kosminski. And the reason I bring this up is because a lot of our listeners, we did like a four episode, you know, deep dive into Jack the Ripper. And I think I did, it was like my, I couldn't stop researching it.

So of course I've been asked a million times what I think of this whole thing, if they've really named him and it's infuriating. Not people asking me, but the fact that they're saying that this is 100% Jack the Ripper. But I needed to know if you had heard about it and if you were like, oh yeah, it's Erin Kosminski or if you were like, no. All right. So I'm going to let Tobias finish in a second, I promise. But before I do that, I just needed to let you guys know that we had very limited time with Tobias this time around. So I really wanted to make sure that you guys heard my feelings on Jack the Ripper and I didn't want to just like vomit them all over Tobias

and use up all our time. So here's the thing. I don't think they have found Jack the Ripper. Not one part of me thinks it, in fact. There's many reasons for that. The fact that this has been a thing that comes around every few years is a big red flag to me, and it's the same person bringing it around every few years and not really updating any of the actual info. That shawl that they're claiming they have this DNA from is a shawl that they're claiming was found at Catherine Etto's crime scene. One, they have this DNA from is a shawl that they're claiming was found at Catherine Etto's crime scene. One, they have no way of knowing that.

The only way of knowing that would be if it was among the exhaustive list of her items that were found on and around her at the crime scene that is well documented, and it is nowhere. There is nowhere that says there is like an eight foot long, really expensive shawl that might actually even be a table runner found on her person. Nowhere. So if we don't have that, then how do we know that this thing is hers and how do we know that it was found at the crime scene? Here's your answer. We don't. So there's a big giant hole of doubt that has already been thrust through this entire thing. I don't think it was found at the crime scene. I think she would have sold it at one point. I don't think

she would have held on to that kind of shell. I mean, there's all kinds of stories of her selling shoes earlier in the day and selling anything that was on her. It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't buy that one at all. Furthermore, the story of this whole thing is that Sergeant Amos Simpson was the one who is said to have taken the shawl from the crime scene, a supposed blood soaked shawl he took from the crime scene. One, that would have been an immense risk to do that. And two, I think we all need to remember what I said a thousand times during our Jack the Ripper series. We can't really comprehend how dark these crime scenes were.

There was no light. We're going by candlelight. You're telling me that this man plucked a blood soaked shawl from a crime scene and just brought it home for his wife. I don't buy that. Also, there's the fact that Amos Simpson was a Metro cop. He was a Metropolitan Police Officer. Mitre Square, where Catherine Eddowes was found, that is London PD jurisdiction. He has no business being there, and even if he is there, he has no business at that crime scene. So that gives me pause. The DNA. The DNA, That gives me pause. The DNA. The DNA, we don't even know what it is.

It might be blood, it might be semen. They have no definitive answer for that. So that 100% match, I don't believe. They don't even know what the actual DNA source is for this. And also, there is no evidence of him leaving Seaman at scenes. Of course he can depart from his pattern. Of course that's happened before. I am fully willing to admit that and I'm willing to accept that if there's other pieces of evidence along with it. But the fact that he never did this and there was never evidence of any classic sexual assault

or rape at any of these scenes. It was really violence and mutilation. It doesn't really fit with the pattern. And once again, I'm willing to admit that a pattern can be broken if you give me other evidence to tell me that that's so. I just don't see it here. The DNA itself, it's mitochondrial DNA. That's what they're not telling you in any of these things.

This is not straight up DNA. This is mitochondrial DNA. It can eliminate a suspect, but it cannot identify a suspect absolute. Anyone in the maternal line of this DNA match can also be the person. This can be thousands of people. Thousands of people in London can match this DNA. So that's not good enough for me. That's not identifying that is you can eliminate. And also, just to put a pin on this, the researcher who has put this forward is Russell Edwards. He doesn't have a track record that I'm willing to follow here, really. I will of course give benefit of the doubt if he can provide more evidence. But he also

claimed once and so did his team that they found a victim of Ian Brady and Myra Henley that has been missing for decades and decades, Keith Bennett. And his family has been looking for his body on those moors forever and hoping to find his body on those moors. And it was really fucked up that his team basically announced on social media that they had found Keith Bennett and they hadn't. So that upsets me. That makes me question it. Of course, one massive monumental mistake doesn't mean that you can never do anything good in your life. So if he can provide more evidence that says this is a hundred percent DNA match, which I don't believe he can, that I'm willing

to listen to it. But no, Aaron Kosminski is not Jack the Ripper. Mic drop! I am very interested in the subject. And I definitely don't think of Aaron as Kosminski. No. Okay, I'm glad you agree because it's been driving me insane.

Yeah, Elena's been going down rabbit hole after rabbit hole. Every once in a while, I'll just yell out like another thing that makes like, doesn't make sense about this, but everybody's running with it. But that is my official statement right here. And Tobias Forge agrees it is not Aaron Cottenstein. Well, yeah, as I think I spoke about this last time as well, is that the problem with most of the names that's been thrown around is that what they all have in common is that they somehow have some exotic or weird treat that makes them eccentric or typically weird.

It's interesting how in this case, especially now when we know so much more about serial killers, I don't blame people back then to be sort of dumb-folded and sort of screwing up everything when it came to the investigation, but it's interesting how we now have a tendency to To believe that this case is still different from every other serial killer in the history of serial killers

We know now that serial killers are not necessarily an eccentric weirdo necessarily an eccentric weirdo. Like shit openly and have circus and you know, know that they are more likely to be like perfectly functional family men. Yeah, they blend in. There's this very interesting reoccurring.

It's sort of part of the mainframe of the story that if you believe in the limitation of the canonical five that after Mary Kelly, no one can do that number on another person physically, could subject someone to that ultraviolence without losing their minds. Yeah, that's like a very... I cited that! Yeah, like since when. There's so many examples that does that and way worse and then they can sit and speak coherently and... Yep, and go have dinner with their family.

Yeah. Get their kids up from daycare. It's really fascinating as an anthrop- like a human social experiment talking and listening to theories about this because it's mired in such a mist that for some reason makes people sort of completely unrealistic. But you know, I'm also just an amateur. I don't know who did it. I can't present you with facts that will- And that's the difference,

is you're saying, I don't know who did it. I don't know who did it. Yeah, and same, I don't either. I don't think any of us do. No. This drives me, It's been very widely reported as like 100% we figured out who did it. Yeah, like fully facts. Like what? This is from the 1800s.

But let's put it this way then. It will serve me well if people think it's Aaron Kaczminski for some time. Yeah. So continue thinking that. Okay, it's officially him. Yeah, okay. 100%. Tobias is gonna come mic drop later.

There you go. There's so many little things about it, but I won't get into it because I can literally talk about this for like six hours and you don't have that. So let's take it back. We're gonna talk about the Imperator, which again, you toured for almost two years.

It was seven legs. We were at a few of them, it was an amazing tour. Congrats on that success, by the way, and again, the stamina that it took to do that. Thank you so much. You're welcome. And it had, I feel like towards the end of that tour,

everyone became kind of like in a flutter of like, what's gonna happen and like, what's next? And it was like a very, it had like its own like mythos. You could hear like people talking about it and everywhere you went about it. So, but luckily we didn't have to wait too long because you chronicled, like you said, the final two performances of the tour

in the film right here, right now. Which again, I just need to state, it's the highest grossing hard rock cinema event in North America, which is a crazy title to hold But you ended that on the cliffhanger of all cliffhangers like right before revealing Papa five One thing I have to ask you is I was in one of those audiences watching that Film and the first thing I heard very clearly when the credits rolled was someone behind me yell very lovingly Fuck you to bias-forge like at the top of their lungs so mad because they were like what the fuck clearly when the credits rolled was someone behind me yell very lovingly, fuck you Tobias

Forge, like at the top of their lungs. So mad because they were like, what the fuck? Did you feel audiences cursing you at the end of that? Like, did you know that people were going to be like, no. I went to the premiere here in London. I'm currently in London. so I was here for the premiere. So that was the first time I saw it with essentially a bunch of strangers. And there was this murmur, aww. No one like, there was not like, no cursing, but yeah, there was definitely a noise that signal. A grumble that went through the ground. It's your gotcha moment. It is. It was such a good gotcha moment.

It's your gotcha moment, yeah. Yeah. It was like right up to it. Then you're just like, oh. Yeah. Then it just closed the door. So in that film, there's like a lot of allusions to twins and a lot of implications that there's twins involved in some other capacity than what we've seen. Is there, can you tell us anything about that or should we just like shut up and wait? Now, it's easy.

It's more fun if you, as a fan, you get to follow the story the way that I've rolled it out with the comic and onward. It's a boring way to explain it, but it's just better explained that way. I'm fascinated, not in a Mengele sort of way about twins, but I think that there is this, I mean, obviously, I do happen to have two children who are twins. Me too. But there, I think that there is this fascination with, especially when it comes to grownup people who've been separated at birth

for this, that, or the other reason, sometimes by accident, sometimes by choice, sometimes by, you know, force. More than often, it's been a result of, you know, girls who basically couldn't take care of their children and wasn't at that point maybe equipped or had the ability to take care of children. So they had no choice but to leave them up for adoption. And there are cases where they have felt forced to give up one. And I've always been fascinated with, I don't know, the concept of family ties and bloodlines and all that.

And I think that that comes not necessarily from the fact that I have twins myself, but it comes also from the fact I have several adopted siblings. And, you know, just a few years ago, I did what most people or a lot of people do nowadays, you do the ancestry and, you know, you check your DNA and then you get like a whole slew of people that you're related to all over the place. And, you know, dawned on me pretty quickly that if some of my siblings would do that Their thing is completely different. Yeah that they they belong to some other

family with their own background and their own everything and I really wished it they did in a way but as far as I know they they haven't because it's such a trauma for them. Yeah. Oh yeah, I can imagine. So when I say the word fascinating, it's not always like from a joyful, it's really affecting stuff and it really can do a number on someone when you learn something about your life, and especially if you feel that something that you believe was true was all of a sudden not true. In my family case, they are very well aware that they are adopted.

So that is not a thing. But I'm just saying that it never does it become more clear. And one does the test and you can trace back and the other one to you is like, oh, that's cool. Oh, look at that. That's a surprise. And that's like a relatively new thing too. So I feel like that's like a whole new generation of people experiencing that like very specific

and very unique kind of trauma sometimes. Cause we didn't always have these tests that we could just like send away for and get the results on your phone. No. So it's very interesting. Oh, it's an interesting concept and I think for the most part it's a really good thing. I do believe that. Simply put, knowing your history and I found it to be very humbling to be able to look

at my family tree and seeing all these people. Obviously, most of them I couldn't see photos of or I could only see names. But, you know, watching generation of generation of people struggling, and more than often, especially when you go back 100 years, and it's common that you see, you know, mom and dad that gets like 12 kids out of six of them die. It's wild. Like a year, two years, three years. And that was just normal. Back then it was a completely normal thing. For us, it's like that's a cataclysmic event. Oh, yeah. You can't even say that they weren't suffering. But I'm just saying that it was was a completely normal thing for us. It's like, that's a cataclysmic event. Oh yeah. You can't even say that they weren't suffering,

but I'm just saying that it was like a completely different time and they spent very, probably spent very little time wallowing in affairs and worldwide things that didn't bother, that wasn't directly affecting them. And they just kept head straight and they worked and they made sure that the kids that survived survived and and You know, I have a tremendous amount of

Respect what's the word humility? Yeah, like all that work that was put in in order for me to sit here and Talk shit That's a good way to look at it actually all that work that was put in in order for me to sit here and talk shit. That's a good way to look at it actually. Yeah. That's what they did it for. So we could sit here and talk shit. Yeah, you know. Well, getting away from the last tour and heading into the future a little bit, this album, I was lucky enough to listen to it. It's this new album is it's like a masterpiece. I'm obsessed with it. I love it. It might be, I think it's my favorite so far. It's really really good. I can't get over it. I wanted to like scream it from the rooftops. I really can't. And I

know you're probably like, oh. That's what you tell everyone. It's not. She doesn't. I really don't. I loved this one. I loved it immediately from the first note. Um, and again, like this album feels, it's just got like a different feel to it and it feels more personal and a little more like introspective. Like it just has a different vibe to it. A very good, different vibe. Can you tell us a little bit about why, if I'm correct, why you might have went in that direction with this one? Yeah, I simply put the previous record

especially was such a channeling of me deciphering external influence. And I felt that even though I mean, I'm super proud of Impair, I thought that that was the record that I wanted to do at the time. Nothing wrong with that. But I felt not at all inspired to go back and make a sequel to that like an Impera 2. Even though I mean obviously there's plenty of fodder if you want to have like continue down that path. But just felt that that's not inspiring. That's not it doesn't that is simply not what I need. And therefore, hence, I don't think that that's what my hence I don't think that that's what my people are interested in what I think feel or need either. I'd rather make a more introspective record that that deals with evergreen feelings and basic human sentiments and still hope.

It definitely comes across in this one. Like each one, I feel like it's kind of like a little mini movie that you can see in your head. And it feels like there's sentiments in each one that you can relate to on some level and some part of your life. You know what I mean? Like they all have that.

That's why this one like struck me as so different, but it was different in the best kind of way. I'm glad you say that. At some point when you sketch out this little idea that, oh, so this is a thematic concept and these are a few songs that I've been fiddling with and there's always this process when you're practically putting together a record and at the end of the day, regardless of what message that you want to stay on point

with, it still needs to be like a entertaining piece of work, piece of art that, you know, with rhymes and new words. So there's so many hurdles to go from like a pure intuitive idea to actually looking at like 42 minutes of qualitative entertainment. Yeah, that was, I can't imagine that. Yeah. Having to boil it all down to that and making it like palatable. Yeah, that was, I can't imagine that. Yeah. Having to boil it all down to that and making it like palatable. Yeah, I mean, but that's what I do.

Yeah. So I love that, but it's definitely like, it's always a challenge. Oh, I'm sure. Fun challenge, but it's always, especially when you're trying to do thematic things. That's why sometimes I'm also like using the theme as like a, that's a loose direction that I've used as a more,

originally most for myself in order to sort of stay on, on brand might be the one, but stay on point, stay focused so I know where not to go. Stay the course. Yeah, did you have a bit of a different process writing the songs this time around? No. No, same process? Same process. All right. It's simply because I don't I don't really have one go to process. So I was using the same process. This is I think that this was the first time first record where I worked with collaborators that I've, and I worked only with collaborators

that I worked with quite a lot before. I didn't have any new blood. So we were working with a certain amount of rapport and background, which was comforting because you trust the other people, you trust them, you know that we're working towards the same goal and everybody has the intent of making everything as good as possible. I know that no one would go into a production with the opposite. You never know. That'd be weird. You just never know anymore. You definitely feel sometimes that someone is phoning it in. And especially if it's like a big production with a lot of people,

obviously someone is there. Someone is there because they're getting paid. And they're functional too. So that's not a problem. But yeah, it was quite closely knit. And we were not like a big bunch of people working on this one. And you know, as some of you fans might know that we, I basically have a little bit of a divide between how I make the records and then Boom is performing on stage. And, you know, across, you know, my 15 years career as this band, I've experimented a little bit with that, but I've learned the hard way that it's if you're not going to use everyone, it's better to use no one. If not everybody's being called in for their ability and their special gift, anybody who's excluded from that, they're going to take that the wrong way.

It's not going to be great. Yeah. So it's just better. I've just found it more comforting and more productive and nicer to everybody to just work with others. And then once we get the band together, then we haven't nagged each other down. We haven't worn each other down throughout the process of making a record, which a lot of other bands do. Once they hit road, they have already been in the studio

and killing each other for a year. Oh yeah, you hear about that all the time. Some of the greatest bands like Fleetwood Mac wanted to kill each other for a year. Oh, yeah, you hear about that all the time. Some of the greatest bands like Fleetwood Mac wanted to kill each other half the time. Yeah. Making records, especially if you are collaborating, it's very... I don't have a better word. It's an intimate process.

I'm sure. It's a very... You have to be very open and daring. And it's kind of like you're letting your own You have to be very open and daring. Well, and it's kind of like you're letting your own like personal journal, your own diary. You're giving it to a bunch of people to kind of help make into something that everyone's gonna listen to.

I can't imagine that. No, but that it's pretty much what you do. Of course, when you've done it a couple of times, you don't, it's simply not a part of your, it's kind of like getting naked with someone you're together with. It's not a thing after a while that you're, you know, and once you've started writing with someone and it feels good, it does become more natural. You don't have that initial obstacle of, you know, having to go shades down. Well, and we, the first single video for,

that is coming out from this album is Satanized. And it, when this episode airs, it has come out already. That video is amazing, loved that video. It is the first reveal of Papa Five, Papa Perpetua, and it's a phenomenal reveal at the end of the video. I think Ash actually filmed me watching it for the first time and I was like speechless. I couldn't even form words.

I have a couple of questions about that video. And again, if you can't answer, just say absolutely not. Is that you heavily, heavily made up as the priest? Yes. I knew it. The point is not that it's me. It's the point that it's a priest. I want people to focus on-

It's a priest, yeah. Yeah. I mean, of course, I mean, I understand that people will sort of notice. It's, it's, it's good. It's hard. Good prosthetics, but it's obviously not to the point where I'm completely beyond. But the song itself had, has a... So this is how meta and weird Ghost is sometimes. Love that. The song is written in I-form, I-perspective, but on the record, Papa the Fifth Perpetua is singing, pretending to be another character. Right? Oh, I think I'm right about my theory.

Alaina has quite a theory and I think you just confirmed it. Because Papa the Fifth Perpetua is a singer in a band. So as any other band who has songs that are written in I-form can be about someone else. They're not always about... Their personal experience. Yeah, them personally. Oh, that's good to know. So in the video, a problem arose because of this, because we needed... My idea was for this love-stricken monk to go through the hurdles of confusing his infatuation with being possessed. And

of course his surroundings within the monastery, of course, Dave. They confirm that. The symptoms that are showing is clearly the sickness of being possessed by a demon and the cure for this is, you know, an exorcism and repentance and all that. So technically, you know, it was important that, OK, so I mean, obviously. I can't transform into pop up. That becomes really poor and bad. Yeah. So we needed to have a another character coming in.

So we had this this he's a Swedish actor. I don't know if anyone- He was so good. You guys, you recognize him? He was familiar, but I couldn't, I didn't know if it was just because he has a very kind face. No, his name is, I hope I say this right internationally,

like David Denchik. And he is, he's been in all kinds of stuff like he was in in a James Bond film oh wow a lot of Swedish and Scandinavian films I mean he he stars he's half I think he's half Danish or something oh okay so okay. So he's in a lot of Danish films. Oh, that's cool. So maybe it wasn't just his kind face. Really, he's a very talented actor. He's very well known in Sweden, Denmark, Scandinavia.

Usually talented, very, very nice. Lots of fun to work with. So he really graced that video with this personality that I think was needed, and which sort of put me in a little bit of a, being superfluous, which is fine. I don't have to star or anything, but someone who needed to be the priest.

And it's always interesting to be plain asshole. That must be the most fun, I feel like. Absolutely. The villain is always the most fun. If I looked more like a stereotypical sort of strong, angry man, like, you know, with all those features, you know how some men are just like thinking badass. I can't really play that, you know, what you're looking at right now

is me sort of having spent some time being sick. I'm glad you're feeling better, by the way. So I'm sort of in home mode in the sort of the hobo look. It's chic. But you know, when I'm clean-shaven and all, I can't really scare people. And sometimes as an actor, to whatever extent, I am an actor at some point. I would say so.

You just have to live with the fact that you're, you know, what your look is, is sort of... You gotta work with it. That's what you can play with. I had to screw him up with some sort of feature that gave him a little bit more of a character. I loved it. I'm so glad you confirmed it for me

because it was driving me insane. I've been saying it in here. I'm like, am I just like looking for things that aren't there? Or am I going crazy now? But in that same video, because I had to analyze it a million times, Corinthians 619 flashes across the screen, it's in the little notebook, it's definitely right there. And in case anybody didn't immediately look up that verse in the Bible, I did not know what that verse was at first, because I'm not super up on my biblical verses. Now,

before this interview, I think I'm like an expert on the book of Revelations, by the way. I'm telling everybody stories. Alina's held her own Bible study now. I have. So I know all about it. The Corinthians is basically touching upon sexual immorality. It's when Paul went to the Corinthians and told them, you know, stop being so loose with your business. And the Corinthians were like, well, why does it matter? This body doesn't go with me when I leave. So like, it doesn't matter what I do with it. And he's like, no, it's a temple for God. And you're sullying it with your reckless, you know, sexy time. So that's the story there in

a very loose form, obviously, not the word of God. And this seems to be a theme, obviously, of the Satanized video, for sure. Like, we see the nun showing some clogged ankle for a minute. Loved that. Loved her. I thought her facial expressions are so good. And it's part of the video, it's part of everything for this. And there's another song, I won't name it because it's obviously not out yet, that I listened to on the album that definitely had some spiciness in it, I would say. So it had a similar

theme of this. But I wanted to know if that kind of theme plays a bigger role at all in the thematic arch of the album as a whole, or if it's just a part of something bigger? You mean Book of Revelations or the Corinthians? Corinthians, I would say. Like that whole like sexual and morality thing. This is I mean, no, this was specific to this song. OK. Just because it in that specific verse. I can't paraphrase it in English exactly what it says, but it's somewhere along the lines of keep your body clean because at the end of the day, you know, it belongs to God.

And in the context of the song and the meaning of the video, I think it's fairly poignant and on and on point to this misconception that anybody who's love stricken is somehow opening themselves up to destroying their bond and their covenant with God. A higher being. Which is completely unfathomable. Truly. And what is, and again, you might not be able to answer this, but in the notebook, we were looking at what the things that were written in there, because they were funny in the music video. And there's something that's crossed out.

Can you tell us what that said? Because I think next to it, it says like, idiot. I think the first thing that was crossed out was masturbate? Question mark. Yeah, that was definitely one. And obviously, he didn't want to suggest that. And then it's, was it suicide? Oh, that's what it was. But he didn't want to like, no, that's not great. He didn't want to suggest that. Maybe he was starting going through the Bible verses there and he landed on

two Corinthians and anybody who knows current history knows that two Corinthians does not exist. It's second Corinthians. But when you pose with the Bible and try to trick your followers that you have any clue what you're talking about and you say that wrong, it becomes kind of humoristic. It does. So that was a little bit of a little nod. A little nod. A little wink. I like that.

All right. I'm glad we know what that is now. It was driving us nuts. We're like, what does that say? It has an S in the beginning. So quick little like side question. Have you ever seen The Devils with Oliver Reed and Vanessa Redgrave? I don't know off the top of my head.

You should watch it. I believe that this is a quite old film, right? It is. And it was like banned. But I think like the W, like Warner Brothers wouldn't release it again. So it's one of those things you have to go looking for. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I am. I don't remember. I don't remember. I vaguely have it in the back of my head. I think I know which film it is. I sometimes I do have a problem remembering or simply detecting which film someone is referring to because even though in Sweden we don't dub films, we have other titles for the films.

Oh, I didn't even think of that. Which is too much ridicule and the laughing of my band members, the band that I'm traveling with, because they have picked up on this little anomaly in Swedish cinema. I kind of love that. So sometimes I get the question like, what's this called in Swedish? So like simple, simple old school things. It's like Jaws is called Hayen. That means the shark. And you know, towering inferno is skyskrappan brinner. And that means the skyscraper is on fire. I'm obsessed with that one. That one's awesome.

You know, over the course of touring, and you sit in the bus and do exactly what we're talking about right now. Like, we just like, have you seen this film? I'm like, Maybe? No. Then I see, you know, a picture of it.

Oh, yeah, of course I've seen this. But you know, I remember this film and then I have to tell them the title and it's like, whoa, it's such a simplified, stupid, dumb, dumb, you know, the old one that's fairly known is that all Mel Brooks films in Swedish is called Springtime 4. Huh, Springtime 4. So the producers, Springtime 4 Hitler. Wow. And a lot of the Goldie Hawn films was the girl who fell overboard, the girl who did

military service, the girl who knew too much. I love that words are added into the title too. Yeah, that's fun. Like overboard is not just overboard. It's like we have to explain it first. Yeah, all the, you know, National Lappoon's national vacation or Christmas vacation, all that. Yeah. All the ones that all the Clark Griswold films, they're called a pair for a dad. A pair for a dad.

It's Pärron till fasha. So that means like a pear as in the fruit. Oh, I thought you meant a pear. Yeah, a pear for a dad. Celebrating Christmas. All right. A pear for a dad on a European vacation. You know?

Why is there a pair? So when I say, if I ask anyone in Sweden, like have you seen National Lampoon's European Vacation? They'd be like. They will most likely not know what I'm talking about. They're like, is that the one with the pair? With the pair you were talking about? That's the one with the pair.

Yeah, that's amazing. I'm kind of obsessed with that. You're gonna have to let us know if the Devil has a different, or the Devil's has a different name. It's the one written, produced and directed by Ken Russell. Is it Criterion? Are the people who made it? Yes. Criterion. I don't know why that just popped in my head.

Yeah. It's from the... I'm gonna check it. I mean, it's a red grape. Yeah, and Oliver Reed, so. Oliver Reed, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, this rings a bell. Cause as soon as I watched the Satan Eyes video,

for some reason, that movie just kind of like popped in my head and I was like, this rings a bell. Because as soon as I watched the Satan Eyes video, for some reason that movie just kind of like popped in my head and I was like, huh, I gotta ask. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So moving away from the Satan Eyes video, we have a couple of like kind of random questions for you, but last time you were on,

we had a lot of random questions for you and people really liked hearing what you had to say about very random things. So I'm sure you know this, that you grew up in Sweden. Is there any folklore or tales that you heard growing up that you think maybe shaped how you approach music or just creating cool shit? Yeah, I mean, obviously, my music for almost forever. I mean, as soon as I started writing songs, especially for bands and stuff, it was always driven by a certain level of supernatural presence, if you will, because, you know, I started writing songs for, for like, especially metal and death metal and stuff like that. So of course there's this supernatural horror element and then that just sort of continued even through my sort of inter-wall bands where it was still sort of darkish and now obviously it's

influenced by that too, or at least wrapped in some sort of wrapping that's supposed to be more or less. So of course, I think that Scandinavian folklore had, I don't know how it is nowadays because I'm obviously not a child now and I do have children though, so I'm not sure if they... I'm not sure that they have sort of dealt with the same fairy tale, you know, murkiness that even when I was a kid and Scandinavian folklore is a lot about trolls and various creatures that live in the forest. and various creatures that live in the forest. Yeah. Where I grew up in Linxiupping, we had, I mean, anybody traveling to Linxiupping or

anybody who's ever been there knows that there's a stream going through the city. And it's like a built stream and it's in the form of sort of a city park, if you will. It's not just sort of licking between the houses. It's like a long, long park that goes through the town. And because it's part of a system called Jatakanal, a channel, it's a jointed to Jatakanal. It has these sluices and stuff so you can actually take the boat and travel. Oh, that's cool.

And where I grew up and where my kindergarten was, it's still there. It's still a functioning kindergarten, like a daycare place. It was really nice because we had it, it was sitting right next to very near the stream. So there was like a huge park, like a big park right next to where we were. And we had the sluice, you know, where old wooden boats would come and they would, you know, fill water up. And, but there was also like a waterfall there. It's actually a pretty beautiful place. If anybody travels to Linköping at some point, go down to Hawaii.

It's called Hawaii because it's like a little peninsula where Oh, that's cool. where me and my friends and everybody we knew would go with six packs and get fucked up. We all have that one place. Not when you were in kindergarten. It was later. Not when you were in kindergarten. It was later. Not when I was in kindergarten.

But anyway, there's this character in Swedish folklore called Necken. And he is like a naked man sitting... That's scary. ...by the water, in a waterfall or where the water streams downstream and he would sit there and play fiddle naked. And if you ever hear him, you will be enchanted by his playing and he will lure you and he will drown you. Oh, that got dark so fast.

At first I was like, all right, sounds cool. Like this guy. Then I was like, oh shit. I like the fiddle music. When I was little and we were down there playing, you couldn't help but to sort of think that if there was such a thing as Neckin, he would probably sit right over there. Sounds like it. Because that is a typical Neckin place to sit.

Yeah. If we know anything about Neckin, he's going to sit there. He's going to sit in that waterfall. That like it. It's a typical neck in place to sit. Yeah. Why not? We know anything about neck in. Yeah. He's going to sit there. He's going to sit in that waterfall. That's great. So Tobias, we told you at the beginning of the episode that we had a very special guest who wanted to come in and just congratulate you and say, Hey, so, uh, if you want, we can let them in now. If that's good. Who is it? Please. I'm very nearly here. He's here. Welcome to the show Doug Bradley. Hi Tobi. Hey man. How are you? I'm very well. How are you? Good. I'm doing fine.

Doing just fine. It's been a while. COVID kept getting in the way, huh? Yeah. Have we not seen each other since then? I think at the Peterson, they wouldn't let us backstage. And then I think the last one you needed to kind of voice preservation, energy preservation. Yeah, I remember that now. You didn't need annoying groupies. Exactly. No, I'm, and I might have been also disturbed by, do you still have that insect infestation in Pittsburgh? Oh, that was crazy.

Which one? We had the stink bugs. Ugh. Then that was followed by the spotted lantern flies. Oh, even worse. Oh, that was what I was referring to. But I just wanted to, conclusively, I would just wanna say we are coming to Pittsburgh.

You are. Yes. Yeah, this summer. So I'm looking forward to see both of you then. Yeah, we already have our tickets. We will be there. Yay. We'll all be there. We'll meet up some some bug less place. Congratulations on the movie. Thank you. Thank you so much. Which was terrific. The tour upcoming, you could lay claim to being the hardest working man in show business, I think. I think so. I try to put my miles, but it's.

I think it will be 10 years this year since we first saw you. Is it? House of Boots in Dallas, I think, 2015, was it? Damn. 14. I'm losing count. Okay. Eleven years.

Look at that. Yeah. I bet they suck. I bet they're gonna go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You just happened to step in on the one night when we didn't do that. Elena, congratulations on the novel. Oh, thank you so much.

I enjoyed it hugely. Thank you. With a plot twist for the ages, which I did not see coming. Thank you so much. I mean, it was literally a kind of what? That was the plan, so I'm glad it worked. I haven't cleared the decks for the sequel. It's coming.

The third one's coming. So get ready. Do you stop at a trilogy or do you just? I'll keep going. Probably you'll get some more. I didn't write you on anything, Ash, but that's okay. I just exist. Congratulations for being wonderful. Oh, thank you. Back at you, Doug. Look at the love here. This was so amazing, and it was so amazing to have Doug come in as a surprise guest. We wanted to give you that at the end. I know.

We thought it would be fun. We love Doug so much. Thank you for coming, Doug. We love Tobias, we love Doug. It's just all love here. And just to wrap it up, the album comes out on April 25th. It's incredible. Everybody go get it because you won't be disappointed.

The single for Satanized and the Sister Imperator comic are available now when this episode comes out. You can access all the above plus some really sick merch on ghost-official.com and I encourage you to do it. Tobias, you're amazing. We're huge fans. We'll stick with ya. Can't wait to see you on tour.

We'll be at a couple of the dates. Looking forward to it. And thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming on. We really, really appreciate it. Thank you. And we hope you guys keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. Bye. Okay. Can't find my go away button.

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