Morbid - Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

On the night of August 14, 1985, twenty-year-old Kristin O’Connell left a party in Ovid, NY to go for a walk. Two days later, her nude body was discovered near a cornfield along a rural county road; she had been stabbed in the chest and her throat was cut. The unsolved murder of Kristin O’Connell has baffled local New York investigators for decades. At the time of her murder, Kristin had traveled from Minnesota to New York to visit a young man she’d met a few months earlier while on Spring Break in Florida. According to witnesses, Kristin wasn’t wearing shoes when she left the party and she wasn’t carrying a purse. Several witnesses reported having seen Kristin walking that night between 11:30 pm and 12:15 am, when she was seen talking to one or possible two men in a car. Roughly ten minutes later, several people reported hearing a loud scream coming from the area where her body was discovered.In the decades since Kristin’s murder, police have interviewed dozens of witnesses and followed up on thousands of leads, yet the case remains no closer to being solved than it was in the days following the discovery of the body.Please sign the Petition to override the decision to not permit 'touch DNA' to potentially solve this cold case! visit https://www.change.org/p/family-demands-dna-testing-by-othram-labs-in-the-kristin-o-connell-cold-caseThank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAllen, Matha. 1985. "Slain woman's parents seek comfort from her letter." Star Tribune, August 18: 35.Associated Press. 1987. "Psychics seeking slues to 1985 murder in Ovid." Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY), August 22: 12.—. 2009. "DNA may solve '85 slaying." Press and Sun-Bulletin (Binghamton, NY), August 13: 1.Democrat and Chronicle . 1985. "Police ask help in Ovid murder." Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY), August 20: 11.Democrat and Chronicle. 1985. "Lab to test items from slaying." Democrat and Chronicle , August 19: 7.Ebert, Alex. 2009. "A Burnsville mother won't let her daughter's murder case go cold." Star Tribune, August 13.Gillis, Jackie. 2023. What happened to Kristin O'Connell? March 2. Accessed March 2, 2025. https://www.mytwintiers.com/news-cat/local-news/what-happened-to-kristin-oconnell/.Lighty, Todd, and John Hartsock. 1985. "Brutal slaying shakes Seneca town." Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY), August 18: 1.Pfifer, Jim. 1996. "Police suspect imprisoned man for 1985 murder in Ovid." Star-Gazette, January 28: 1.Pittman, Mark. 1985. "Minn. woman found dead in Seneca." Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY), August 17: 1.Ritter, Carol. 1985. "4 deaths, few answers in Seneca." Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY), August 22: 14.—. 1986. "Parents on pilgrimage of grief." Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY), August 16: 1.—. 1985. "Slaying no longer the talk of Ovid, but investigation, reaction continue." Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY), September 25: 11.Shaw, David. 2009. "Police seek help on cold case." Finger Lakes Times, August 13.—. 1986. "Kristin O'Connell's murderer thwarts police." Post-Standard (Syracuse, NY), February 21: 1.—. 1986. "Murder case takes police out of state." Post-Standard (Syracuse, NY), January 8: 14.—. 1985. "Cops place an ad in hunt for killer." Syracuse Herald-Journal, August 29: 1.—. 1985. "Police hope TV reenactment of killing will help solve case." Syracuse Herald-Journal, September 13: 15.—. 1985. "Slaying's legacy: a bounty and fear." Syracuse Herald-Journal, August 30: 95.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, weirdos. Before we unleash today's macabre mystery, we were wondering, have you ever heard of Wondery Plus? It's like a secret passage to an ad-free lair with early access to episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. From Wondery, I'm Matt Ford. And I'm Alice Levine. And we're the hosts of British Scandal. And for our next series, we're taking you back to the 80s.

This is Thatcher's Britain. These are the boom years. But boom is notoriously so often followed by bust. It is, and that's the case for Asil Nadir. He built one of the UK's biggest conglomerates of the 1980s, a jewel in the FTSE 100, and he built it with just his bare hands, a fertile imagination and a whole heap of lies. Ah yes, the important ingredient. We love lies on British scandal.

This sounds absolutely perfect. The only thing that could make it better would be the Prime Minister herself, maybe a trophy wife and a bonkers escape from the law on a two-seater propeller plane. I live to serve Alice. This story has all that and more. To listen to Thatcher's favourite fraudster, follow British Scandal wherever you listen to your podcasts and binge entire seasons early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. I'm Afua Hirsch. I'm Peter Frankipan.

And in our podcast Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. This season, we're talking about the singer and songwriter John Lennon. His band, The Beatles, smashed musical conventions, caused hysterical adulation and are still the biggest selling band of all time. But that adoration obscured a complex and combustible character. He might have been singing Give Peace a Chance, but his personal life was often far from peaceful. So who was the man behind the round glasses and how does his legacy hold up today? What about you, Afford? What's gonna ring your bell about John Lennon? Is it the man behind the round glasses and how does his legacy hold up today? What about you, Afford? What's going to ring your bell about John Lennon?

Is it the man, the music? There is something about the iconography of Lennon. He's got such mystique around him and I cannot wait to dig in and separate fact from fiction and find out who he really was. And of course, he started the Russian Revolution in 1917. Oh no, that's a different Lenin altogether. Follow Legacy now from wherever you get your podcasts. And binge entire seasons early and ad free on Wondery Plus.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elaina. And this is Morbid in the Morning. We haven't done one of these in a little while. I know. I had a merch idea this morning actually when I was driving here I was like, oh I get to say that it's morbid in the morning. We should just do like a shirt that says like morbid in the morning like maybe like embroidered on like the shirt with like a little coffee cup. Yeah, that's how I pictured it too.

I love that. Yay. We'll do that. We'll do that someday. Someday. I love that idea. Thank you. I had a strange dream last night and I don't remember the dream itself.

This is going to sound so random. But I remember in the dream someone was using PEMDAS to solve an equation. Oh my god parentheses, exponents, multiplication, division, subtraction. Addition, subtraction. Addition, subtraction. Yes. And I woke up and I said what is the E in PEMDAS? That was the first thought I the first thought I had this morning. I rolled over and I looked at John and I said, do you remember what the E is in PEMDAS? And he was like, you just opened your eyes. Like, what do you mean? And I was like, how dare you assault me? He literally was like, what are you talking about? And I was like, PEMDAS, you know how you like, did you all know? Oh,

yeah, but it was literally he had just opened his eyes and he was like I remember what PEMDAS is and I was like exponent and he was like what is happening like it was like we're not even out of bed yet. To the power of baby. But I was like exponent I remember it now and then I got really happy that I remembered it and then I was like that was the weirdest set of events to wake up with. One thing I was really good at in school was math, weirdly. Yeah, that's what I mean. I was not great at math. I fucked heavy with PEMDAS. I'm struggling. I'm trying to help the girls with their math. Well, that's not our math. But even like the the basic shit, like they started learning fractions and I was like, oh, fuck me right up. I'm pretty all right with fractions. It's not my favorite. I'm figuring it out. Honestly, I just think of baking. Well, honestly, I think baking has helped me

because I'll just be. But the problem is when you're baking, I have a Google Home thing. So I'll just be like, hey, Google, how do I make blah, blah, blah out of blah, blah, blah? So you don't exercise that part of your brain anymore. Yeah, see, and they're doing like full on like, you know. But you know, we're getting there.

We're learning math. There you go. And oh, I have something to tell you guys. That's just like a fun little thing. We're not being paid by this company. I just really like this thing. See, I do too. They can be a sponsor if they want to,

but like they're not. I mean, we're both very passionate. They, yeah. So this is, I found this in case of, I feel like a lot of people could use this right now just with the state of the world. It's this app that's like described as a self care Tamagotchi. Which it literally is. Which immediately drew me into it. I said yes. And it's called Finch. F-I-N-C-H. It's so cute. And you literally take care of this little bird by doing things for yourself.

And like you let, and it's a very good app. Like it's really good. I've been using it for two full weeks now. Same. And it's like actually helping me be more mindful. So basically you just kind of like list out things that you would like to accomplish for the day. They literally give you a list to begin with. and one of those things is get out of bed. So it's like you you don't have to shoot for the stars like it's and you can check that off. I got out of bed and it gives you like a yay you did it. And so like I have like you know drinking a certain amount of water and making sure I do that. Like read for 10 minutes, write for 20 minutes.

Like make sure I have all these little like, you know, and you can say like, you know, brush your teeth. Yeah. Wash your face. So I might have like home cooked meal. Yeah. Eat dinner at home. Some of them are like I have put one item away that is not in its place.

Because like with kids, things just get wild and you know, and so doing that is like something that can start you on like organizing somewhere. One of them is smile at yourself in the mirror. I love that. Which actually really, it sounds weird. That's really cute though. And it sounds crazy, but it can bring you up a little bit. Yeah.

And not just like smile at yourself in the thing. Definitely not. It's like look at yourself and genuinely smile at yourself in the mirror. And not. It's like look at yourself and genuinely smile at yourself in the mirror and it will give you a little boost of like chip skylark in the mirror babe. There you go like do it. Yeah your shiny teeth and you. It's true. I have turn off notifications for an hour. Oh I love that. Which is great. I don't need to have that as a goal I just do that. Yeah I usually do that but I literally like phone upstairs. Don't even.

Oh, do not disturb is my shit, especially on the weekends. If you can't get in touch with me, I'm on do not disturb. I have take a short walk without distractions. I have my my hour walk every day on mine. And you so like you check them off. And it gives you a little bird energy. And your little bird goes on adventures every day and tells you about it at the end of the day. They discover something new. Yeah and it's just like, it's a cute little thing.

It might help you just like check off some little things that you would like to make habits out of or try to just, you know, make yourself feel good. I also highly recommend it. Yeah I feel like it's good for like kids too, like you know if you you're like 13 year old or whatever, however old your kid is that has a phone. It's like a good app to like teach them, you know, like do things for yourself. Yeah, exactly. And turning like healthy things into routines. Yeah, I literally like, work out for 15 minutes. Yeah. On there. That's literally like just move for 15 minutes. So I highly recommend it. And again, we're not being sponsored by them.

This is just one of those recommendation moments that I think would benefit a lot of people. Yeah, no, Alaina told me about it and I've used it every day since. Oh, and there's also a little thing. This made me happy. Yeah, there's like even more stuff than just the goals. There's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of things

that you can do on here so i i recommend you download it and kind of explore it a little bit check it out because there's something called like uh like they have like breathing techniques those are nice they have movements like they'll give you little things to get yourself moving for 10 minutes or something they have soundscapes you can write down reflections and journal entries and thoughts and they have a first aid kit which is if you're feeling very anxious or if something happened that upset you or put you in some type of way. Like you're panicky.

Yeah. Like you can, it can help you just like get through it. Like there's a rant zone, there's grounding exercises. Oh, I did the rant zone the other day. Yeah. There's like, what would you say to a loved one? And it's directing compassion inwards towards yourself. It's really beautiful. Because sometimes I can be mean to me. So it was very helpful because sometimes you know people can trigger you. Yeah and sometimes you're your

own worst critic anyway. Yeah and it helps you like not take in all the yuckiness on the outside. Yeah and it helps you like work through it if some leaks through. Yeah. So hey Finch, if you want to sponsor. Finch, we're kind of obsessed with you. We just gave you a pretty good, good advertisement. And we forgot to tell you the best part. You get to name your little bird. Oh yes. Mine's name is Gatsby. And mine is Big Ann. Thank you. So guys, download it. I just highly recommend it if you're looking for something to help yourself there. And it's been helpful to me. I like it. It's very cute. I think it recommend it if you're looking for something. Yes to help yourself there and it's been helpful to me I like it. It's very cute great and it's made me more mindful

Yeah things like certain things because I'll look and I'll be like you haven't read for 10 minutes I mean, can you schedule that in I should put that on mine because I've been not keeping up with my reading lately Yeah, and it's really helpful. Yeah, I love that. So Finch everybody. Hell. Yeah. Yeah, that's my little recommendation for the day All right well moving on into the case of the day. The case of the day. I have an unsolved case today which really infuriates me because there's kind of no reason that this should be unsolved. Yeah. So this is the unsolved murder of Kristen O'Connell. So let's get into it. Kristen Marie O'Connell was born January 12th 1965. She was one of two kids born to Michael and Phyllis O'Connell,

who raised her and her brother Kyle in Burnsville, Minnesota. According to Michael O'Connell, his daughter was a really fun, really easygoing, outgoing child. But he said she also had a very serious side. He said she was somewhat religious and had put a lot of thought into becoming a nun. Oh, wow. And you can find some evidence of Kristen's faith throughout her early life. somewhat religious and had put a lot of thought into becoming a nun. Oh, wow. Mm-hmm. And you can find like some evidence of Kristin's faith throughout her early life.

When her grandmother, who she was really, really close with, died in 1975, 10-year-old Kristin turned to her faith to help her kind of cope with this loss. In a letter written after her grandmother's death, she said, as she wrote, death is a subject pushed aside, never talked about. I think it should be talked about. It's a part of life. Some people die fast, others die young, some old. It all depends when God wants us with him. Wow. Which is like pretty fucking profound for a 10-year-old. It is and if that like it sounds like it was like a comfort. Yeah exactly. Now while Kristen would always take her faith pretty seriously, she was also in most respects, a pretty typical Midwestern girl

and a very ideal daughter for her parents. Her mother, Phyllis, told a reporter in 2023, "'We had a great relationship "'and she was the one all the boys wanted to marry.'" Which I just think is so sweet. Like a lot of girls her age and where she was from, she had a deep love of horses and she worked part-time at a stable near Burnsville

and she boarded her own horse there. She also was remembered as being a very kind, very open person. She trusted people without reservation. Her aunt Barb said she was the type of person that wanted to sit and chat about anything and everything going on with her life. She sounds just cool.

Yeah, she just sounds like a good person. Like someone you- She's beautiful too. She was gorge. And just someone you'd wanna be friends with. she just sounds like a good person like someone you beautiful to she was gorge Yeah, and just someone you'd want to be friends with you know she just seems like a cool chick Yeah So after graduating from high school Kristin was accepted to the University of Wisconsin stout where she majored in hotel and restaurant management Oh, I feel like that'd be like a pretty fucking fun career

And also that's really smart really smart cuz that's not you, you're really setting yourself up for like a career. Yeah, and also you have to be like so organized. Yes. You have to be a level of organization that I don't even think I could ever acquire. Yeah, I can't even comprehend it. And you also have to be a real people person. Yes.

Like really good with people. Yes. And have a good demeanor, which it sounds like she was kind of perfect for that. Definitely. She sounds like she was like very bubbly, you Definitely. She sounds like she was very bubbly. But in the spring of her sophomore year, she took a vacation to, I think it's Keptiva Island near Fort Myers, Florida.

And she was just celebrating spring break with some of her friends, very typical. While she was there, she met 18-year-old James Vermeer, Jr., who was working on the island as a waiter at the time. He had recently graduated high school, where he'd grown up in Ovid, New York, and he was planning to go back home to Ovid in a few months. So Kristen and James headed off immediately. And actually, even after Kristen went home to Minnesota at the end of spring break, they were keeping in touch through letters and phone calls. Now, after months of this kind of like long distance

relationship of sorts, they weren't boyfriend and girlfriend, but it seemed like it was like kind of heading down that road. Kristin decided that she wanted to visit James in New York to get to know him better. Because they've been contacting each other through letters and phone. She's like, let's spend some time together. They're going up the steps of the relationship ladder. Yeah, exactly. Also, remember when people wrote letters? I know.

Crazy. That's like, it's so cute. It is. It remember when people wrote letters? I know. Crazy. That's like it's so cute. It is. It is really cute. I like it. Pen palish. I know. So since she wanted to get to know him better she planned a visit for mid-August just a few weeks before she was going to go back to Wisconsin Stout for her junior year. Initially Kristen's mom Phyllis was kind of apprehensive about her daughter visiting a boy that she didn't really know too well several states away and unaccompanied. I get it. In fact, according to Kristen's brother, Kyle, his parents actually were arguing about it for a few days before Kristen actually did leave.

The dad, Michael, eventually convinced his wife that, quote, it was time to let Kristen be a woman and make her own decisions. So Phyllis obviously eventually agreed to let her go, reasoning that Kristin had always been a really responsible girl. She'd always been very trustworthy. So there was really no reason not to let her go other than her own apprehension. Yeah, of course, which what an impossible position. Yeah.

And it's hard. I mean, she's an adult technically. Well, you want to give her the independence and the freedom to make choices and you can't tether them to you for the rest of their lives as much as we want to as well. And I think as soon as your kids turn like 17, 18, 19, that's a really hard age. I can't even fathom because it's just like uncharted territory. Yeah, your whole life up until then, you have been able to tether them to you. Yeah. And it's your your role like you have to, you know, you get to make the rules. And it's like at that point, you do feel it's like it must be this weird feeling

of like, well, I have to kind of give them a little freedom, but I don't want to. Yeah. At the same time, like I want to just keep them. And it's like a loss of control and control is not always a bad thing. Yeah, it's true. But she was so excited when she left that day. She came in, kissed me, and said, mom, don't worry. Everything's fine. It'll be fine.

So with her parents' consent now, Kristen traveled from Minnesota to Boston, where a family friend picked her up, and then drove her to Syracuse, New York, where James Vermeers and one of his friends picked her up. So Kristen arrived in New York on the night of Monday, August 12th, and her plan was to stay until that Friday. So not a super long time.

Yeah. She was really, really excited about this trip, super excited to see James, like I said, get to know him better. Yeah. But her enthusiasm started to wane almost as soon as she arrived in New York. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com slash morbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash morbid. We all have routines that bring us calm in a chaotic and often scary world. For me, it's arming my SimpliSafe home security system. When I'm heading out every morning

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I also sleep even better knowing that I got a panic button in my room, so, and that's from SimpliSafe, I can just hit that button and boom, that alarm is going and somebody's gonna come help us. With SimpliSafe, millions of Americans enjoy greater security and peace of mind every time they arm their system. Traditional security systems only take action after someone has already broken in. And that's too late.

SimpliSafe's active Guard Outdoor Protection can help prevent break-ins before they even happen. AI-powered cameras backed by live professional monitoring agents monitor your property and detect suspicious activity. Visit simplisafe.com slash morbid to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simply safe.com slash morbid. There is no safe like simply safe. Initially James told Kristen that he that she was going to stay at his parents house

where he also lived. So like very normal situation there. But when she arrived in Ovid, he told her that the plans had changed unexpectedly and that instead they were going to be staying in a trailer on his parents property. So that would like freak me out a little bit. And I think she definitely was a little put off by it. Yeah. I feel like that would make your like flight or fight senses kind of kick in a bit. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So she was like okay like sounds good and she told her mom and the change of plans was concerning for Phyllis who believed her daughter would be staying in a home with adults present. Yeah. But she was like you're already there and I already told you you could go I trust you and you know you're still on their property so you'll be safe. And again

hard position. And again not a lot she can do. Her daughter's technically an adult. So it's unclear how the two spent their day on Tuesday but by the next day Kristen reportedly went swimming with James and his friends and then the group went to a local bar slash restaurant where they shot a game of pool. On the way back to the trailer James stopped at a store to buy some sandwiches, get some beers, and then the group of eight went back to James's trailer to hang out. And it was that afternoon that Kristen received a second piece of unwanted and unexpected news. For several months, she and James had been corresponding, like I said, with, you know, phone calls and letters. And, you know, he had even

invited her to come visit him, giving the impression that he had some kind of romantic interest in her, obviously. But according to Michael O'Connell, Kristen's dad, while James was talking with Kristen, he also had been dating a girl in New York. Oh, so he's an asshole. Yeah, and he, quote, planned to tell Kristen about it when she arrived in Ovid. So you invited this girl to another state

so you could tell her that you're dating someone else? It's like, why are you allowing her to come to like, there's obviously nothing's gonna happen between the two of you or like, that's how you're making it seem. That's a dick move. And nothing should happen because you have a girlfriend. And obviously, Kristen's a very respectable girl. So she's like, fuck you, nothing is gonna happen. But you let her get all the way out there. No, that makes literally no sense that you have her travel to another state so you can tell her

that you have a girlfriend. And she went from Minnesota to Boston and then from Boston to New York. Like this was a lot of- But you could have told her in a letter. Yeah. Like what's wrong with you? Or a phone call. Yeah, I don't- This was so much effort put into this trip for you to just kind of like crush her there. Yeah, that feels like an exercise in humiliation. Yeah. It feels like and I'm angry. It does. It's just shitty. Yeah. So it appears that James did finally tell Kristen about his straight up girlfriend at some point on the afternoon or the evening of Tuesday, August 14th after they got back to the trailer.

Also, how'd your girlfriend feel about that? That you invited a girl two states away, like states away. Yeah. To come see you. Who you've been corresponding with. Like, I'm sorry, that's weird a girl two states away to come see you. Who you've been corresponding with. Like, I'm sorry, that's weird as fuck. It is weird. And also, like, were you telling your girlfriend, are your friends going to say something to her? Like, what is going on here? It's a very strange situation.

So upon learning about James's relationship, Kristen called her mom in Minnesota and told her the trip really wasn't going as well as she hoped it was, hoped it would. And she was going to cut it short and actually come home the next day. Oh, I just want her that like everything in my soul is like, I just want you to come home. Yeah. Same. So according to Phyllis, Kristen, quote, sounded upset, but wouldn't say if anything was wrong. She was just like she was upset and she wanted to come home early.

Phyllis was probably wanting to just like reach over and grab her. And it sounds like, you know, like it could have been very much the like, you know, like she's having a hard time because she's an adult and she can't stop her from going. But you wonder if she had some kind of maternal instinct there. She probably did. And then like everybody else made her second guess at kind of thing. Yeah. You know?

Or even she might have just second guessed it all. Yeah, because you're taught to be like, let them do what they want. And it's like, no, sometimes in this world, you can't just, you have to trust her. Sometimes a mom just knows. You know what I mean? The world just tells people like this, like, oh, you're just being crazy. You're just being paranoid. Overprotective. You're being overprotective. And it's like, no, she was. She's... Sometimes you just know. Yeah. So the group continued hanging out until late into the evening remember they're all hanging out at James's trailer and around 11 p.m. James said he was gonna go pick up a pizza and he left and Kristen announced to the rest of the group that she was gonna go out for a walk like shortly after he left according to 17

year old David Chamberlain who was at the trailer that night neither Kristen nor James seemed upset there was no fights or arguments that broke out at the party. He said she just went out for a walk and didn't come back. When she left, nobody figured anything was wrong. So back home in Burnsville, Kristen actually often took late night walks by herself. Her and her family lived on a subdivision so it was like a little safer to go for a late night walk. So she mostly most likely didn't think twice about going for a walk to clear her head out here. But when Kristen still hadn't returned after two hours, the group at the party started to get concerned. So they set out on foot to look around the area for her. And when she still hadn't been found by the following afternoon, James called the state police to report her missing.

I'm sorry, what? So she goes out for a walk at around like a little after 11 p.m. She doesn't return by 1 a.m. They go out and look for her and they don't find her. And then presumably everybody just goes to sleep and wakes up the next afternoon and then calls the police. That's weird. That is weird. I'm sorry. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody.

That's just weird. Objectively, that's fucking weird. Yeah. If I'm at a party and it's not even my friend, it's just somebody at the party and I hear that they're missing and we go look for them and don't find them when we don't find them that's when we call the police yeah we say okay we gotta call the cops now because right things are right and there was plenty of people there that like at least one of them should have been like hey I think we should call the police and followed through with that decision for sure weird yeah so after receiving

the very late report that Kristin O'Connell had gone missing, a search team of about 90 police officers and firefighters from four towns set out from the Vermeer's house to look for Kristin. About 90 minutes later the team found Kristin's body. She was not alive. They found her body about 300 yards into a cornfield along Route 139, which is a rural road about a quarter mile from the trailer where she'd last been seen. Ovid Fire Chief Robert Favreau said, I know that's what you go on searches to find, but this is an awful way to end it. Usually when you go out on these things, you find out the person you're looking for is hundreds of miles away, but you never know till you find it.

Ugh, that's awful. When she was discovered, Kristen was fully nude. Her throat had been slashed, and she had also been stabbed several times in the chest. The scene had the hallmarks of a sexual assault, but it would quickly be determined that she had not been raped. Major Richard Tonzi told reporters, the apparent intentions may have been a sexual attack, but it may not have taken place, eventually ending instead with murder. A few days later, the medical examiner would label Kristen's death obviously a murder or a homicide, and there was evidence that she had quote put up

a tremendous fight for her life. And it was also determined that at that time she had no drugs and no alcohol in her system. So she was fully sober. A cursory search of the scene didn't really turn up as much as far as evidence, and there was no sign of a murder weapon anywhere in the area. Investigators took soil samples, blood samples, and what little physical evidence they could find and sent it to a state lab in Binghampton for testing. In the meantime, the press and public became very concerned that there was now a killer amongst them. A few months earlier in May, convicted murderers Hugh Colum and Bernard

Welch had escaped from a Chicago correctional facility and were believed to have fled to the Northeast. So that was very concerning for people. They were like, oh shit, did these two have something to do with it? Welch was arrested in Philadelphia in early August. But at the time of Kristin's murder, Colom was still on the loose. And Tansi told reporters, we've got an idea that the murderer could have been in the area, and we've got a murder.

But he clearly stated that Colom was not a suspect, which is interesting. That is interesting. A few months later, they actually did arrest Colom after he robbed a bank in Mississippi. So he was definitively ruled out as a suspect at that point. So after Kristin's body was removed from the field and all the evidence was gathered, Tansi and the other state police investigators started interviewing witnesses and just conducting like door to door canvases basically. Everybody at the party was quickly ruled out as a suspect. Tonsie told reporters everybody at that party came from well-to-do families in this community. They are respected in this area. Okay. Good to know. While being from a wealthy family is

hardly evidence of innocence because as we know wealthy people kill people too and people from wealthy families kill people too quite frequently actually. The group had been together all evening and with the exception of James going out for pizza shortly before Kristen left on the walk none of them had left the trailer other than to go look for her. Okay. And the medical examiner did place the time of death somewhere between midnight and 1 30 a.m and that was after James had already gotten back to the party okay so so there's that yeah and this time of death is was also supported by what neighbors described as a quote unquote horrific scream heard in the direction of the cornfield

between 12 15 and 12 30 a.m now here's my call the police it doesn't sound like it call the police when you hear a blood curdling scream in a cornfield okay well and also if neighbors of this family heard the scream why didn't the group why didn't the group on the in the trailer valid that's a valid question any sense to me yeah or valid question did they hear the scream and then that's when they went out looking. But also she was found not too far from the property and they all went out looking for her for hours. It's just weird. They got ruled out as suspects but there's just still some lingering questions.

Yeah. And it also happened quickly, in my opinion. Yeah. So even though they had been ruled out as suspects in her murder, it remains unclear why Kristen left the party near midnight to go for a walk in an area very unfamiliar to her. Well, that's I think that's the thing. It's like we're not pointing fingers at anyone. It's just like there's some unanswered questions that it doesn't seem like

had enough attention. Yeah, exactly. That could be missing pieces to a puzzle that may not include them being part of it. Yeah. It's just like, why weren't all the pieces put together? Yeah, and also just like, in retrospect, don't let somebody go for a walk alone

when they're not familiar with this area. Yeah, that's, I'm not understanding. It's just sad that she didn't have a friend here. Yeah, like that makes me sad. And the one person who was supposed to be her friend had like kind of turned this trip into shitty. Yeah. Very shitty for her. But state police investigator Jeffrey Arnold said in 2009, she did not do drugs. It was not a drinker. She may have been uncomfortable at the party because alcohol was involved and decided to take a walk. Yeah, that makes sense. Others suggested that, you know, Kristin was probably upset that James had just told her about his girlfriend and she maybe wanted

to go clear her head and then other people say you know maybe she just wanted to get some air she didn't plan to be gone long and also she was barefoot when she left the party which suggests that she didn't plan to be gone for very long. Yeah if she was barefoot she was not planning on being gone long. No. That was a quick little walk. Little stroll. Yeah. Wow. Interesting, right?

Very interesting. So whatever her reason for leaving the party, investigators soon learned that Kristen might not have been alone for the duration of her walk. Despite being a rural route, Route 139 was commonly used by locals as a shortcut across town, and it also tended to be busy with traffic going to the Seneca Army Depot and the Golden Buck, which is a popular restaurant and bar in Ovid. Sergeant Thomas Warren said, a couple of passing motorists have told us they saw people in two cars talking to Kristen along the road at about 1145 PM. Other witnesses reported seeing a late 70s

greener blue sedan on Route 139, right around the time of the murder, with one or possibly two male occupants. And some of the witnesses told police they believed the occupants may have been trying to lure Kristin into the car. Oh no. I mean, that's scary. That she's just walking by herself in the dark barefoot. Yeah.

Yup. Like that's scary. In an unknown area. Yeah. Several witnesses reported seeing the car with two men inside, but others told investigators they saw quote, two young white males walking behind O'Connell shortly before police believe she was killed. Oh, that's so scary.

So there might have been two people in that car. And then later people said they saw two people walking behind her. Oh, that's really scary. Yeah. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him. We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world.

And the suspect... He has been identified as Luigi Nicolass Mangione. ...became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was targeted, premeditated, and meant to sow terror. I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi, produced by Law and Crime and Twist. This is more than a true crime investigation. We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever. He's awoken the people to a true issue.

Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our healthcare system. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple podcasts. Hey, weirdos. I'm Mike Corey. And like you, I'm drawn to true crime, creepy history, and all things spooky. If you particularly enjoyed Ash and Elena's coverage of the USS Indianapolis, where 900

sailors battled rough seas, sharks, dehydration and madness in the open ocean, you need to check out my podcast, Against the Odds. We dive deep into this survival story across four full episodes, revealing details you haven't heard yet. Each week on Against the Odds, we put you in the shoes of real survivors. From the Thai Cave Rescue to Somali pirate hostages to the Donner Party. These aren't just headlines, they're incredible stories of human endurance. Follow Against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your

podcasts. Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to both Against the Odds and Morbid early The two individuals were described as being young, slender, with shoulder length hair, wearing blue jeans and one was wearing a jean jacket. One was described as being around six feet tall, so very tall, and the other was shorter than that person. And you have to remember, again, the stuff at the party is very strange and some of it is questionable, but you look at this and you say, look at the Alice in Bolsa story. And it's like, these, yeah, two people might have just decided that tonight they were going to do this.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, if I've learned nothing from that, I've learned that, yeah, they can just decide to. Yeah, and we know. I mean, serial killers pick victims at random. And when, I don't want to say like opportunity strikes. No, it's true. They're opportunistic.

They are opportunistic. When they see an opportunity that they feel like they can get the upper hand in, they will take that opportunity. So it does. And this was very much unfortunately a situation where two males would absolutely have the upper hand over a young girl who's smaller than them. Barefoot. Barefoot and doesn't know her way around here. In the dark. And who knows, they may have stopped her, struck up a conversation, found out that she wasn't from around here. And that makes it 10 times more. Yeah, you know, opportunity, opportunistic.

Her mother also said that she was very trusting and very like to chat with people disarming. She was very disarmed and very like, would kind of let stuff out like that, because she believed the best in people. And she may have even, you know, like said something about the fact that this wasn't a great night, it wasn't going well. Yeah, like I'm I want to I'm going home. Yeah, like she's at a party where she doesn't know a lot of people. Yeah, like who knows what was said. Who knows? That's the thing.

So it's like we can look at the party goers and the party situation is like, yeah, there's some unanswered questions there. But like this is also a very distinct possibility that somebody did take that opportunity, unfortunately. Which is so sad. That's also the unfortunate part of this case is there's just so many variables at play. Yeah.

It's hard to pin it all together. Right, and these two people are still unknown. So it's like, you know. The investigation was tough but based on the information learned from witnesses investigators did start putting together a theory of what could have happened after leaving the party at james's trailer kristen walked about a quarter mile down route 139 when she was approached by those two men in the sedan who pulled over to talk to her after that interaction she was seen continuing her walk in a western direction around 12.10am,

but the next witness to see her around 12.15am reported her walking in the opposite direction, indicating that she was heading back to the party. Okay. Investigators theorize that the driver may have gone a short distance down the road, but turned around at an abandoned gas station and went back in Kristen's direction. And they believe she either saw the car turn around or just sensed that something wasn't right. So then she turned around and started heading back to the party. Okay. So that makes you so sad because that makes you realize that like she was probably in fear at that moment. Yeah, you know, and when she started turning in the direction

of the party, they believe that the men in the car started pursuing her on foot at that point. Oh. Yeah. That's so fucked up. It is really fucked up. In fact, one witness, like I said, reported seeing those two young men walking about 50 yards behind her around 1215 AM. Around 1 15 AM, so an hour later, witnesses reported seeing two young men who matched earlier descriptions walking eastward away from the cornfield toward the center of town. Oh this sounds scary. The two suspects were seen again 15 minutes later, this time walking in the opposite direction back toward the cornfield, and that was the last time either suspect was seen. What the fuck? Yeah. And the fact that there's like a cornfield involved in was the last time either suspect was seen. What the fuck?

Yeah. And the fact that there's like a cornfield involved in this just makes it even scarier. Yeah. Because I mean this is think of upstate New York. Yeah. And this is like, I don't know why cornfields just free. I mean, I know why popular culture has made me fear cornfields. But I mean, yeah, it's a it just gives it like a way more chilling.

There's a lot of, there's a lot of opportunity for cover. Conceal. Yeah, conceal exactly. And Ovid, New York, just like so people know is like super upstate New York. Like rural. It's not very far from Canada. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at it right now. And I'm like, damn, like my yeah. Yeah. Like I have family that lives in upstate New York, and they don't even live as upstate as this.

And that felt rural to me when I would visit. And it's very like small town. Super small town. I, yeah, yeah. Like I have family that lives in upstate New York and they don't even live as upstate as this. And that felt rural to me when I would visit. And it's very like small town. Super small town. I mean, we're literally just talked about an abandoned gas station a second ago. You know, like that's the vibe here. So the initial flood of tips and witness statements

was very useful actually this time in establishing a timeline and developing a theory as to what might've happened. But it did little to point investigators in the direction of a viable suspect. In fact, within a week of the murder, investigators had yet to find anybody who even remotely matched the suspects seen talking to Kristen before the murder. And of course, that contributed to the growing sense of fear in the community. Because people are like, oh, there's two suspects here, but no, like they're incognito.

Are they among us? Do they live here? Are they from here? Who are these people? Right. And it wasn't Kristin's death alone that made county residents uneasy, but the fact that Kristin's murder was the fourth unsolved murder

in Seneca County in a little over a year. Wow. Yeah. Chief Ferdinand Nincandri, I hope I said that right, told reporters, I don't remember it ever happening here before in my 28 years as a police officer. And then suddenly they had four unsolved murders. Damn.

Yeah. So homicides in that part of New York were very rare, actually. And the fact that there was no common link between the ones that had taken place was equally troubling, because it suggested that these were random crimes, actually. And the fact that there was no common link between the ones that had taken place was equally troubling, because it suggested that these were random crimes, and like we just said, crimes of opportunity. The growing fear in the community and the lack of progress in all of these unsolved cases

prompted several community meetings and the formation of a neighborhood watch program. So at least people got together and were taking care of one another. Yeah. But after a frustrating week of little progress in the case, the state police finally did catch a break on August 23. When an anonymous person called with an unexpected tip. The caller said I'm getting out of town because I told him not to do it. I told him not to do it.

You look at a behind the Chevy, the green Chevy on Main Street in Waterloo, and you'll find him. And if you open the trunk, if you open on Main Street in Waterloo and you'll find him. And if you open the trunk, if you open the trunk, you'll find what you want. What the fuck? Chilling. What the fuck? Chilling.

Yeah. The officer who answered the call, trooper DC Ryre, tried to keep the caller on the line by engaging him in conversation. But the voice on the other end just simply repeated himself, insisting they would, quote, find what you need to solve the case if they looked in the trunk. And then he repeated his earlier insistence saying, I'm getting out of town because I told him not to do it. I told him not to do it. I'm heading out of town before hanging up. What the fuck? Which does, one feels like this could be the two suspects and one is like freaking the fuck out or

This could also just be a hoax. We know people do this shit We know people love to do that and now it's you know, gotten kind of known community Why that they are looking for two suspects? So who knows? But given that several witnesses had described seeing the dark-colored sedan on route 139 on the night of the murder It seemed likely that the call was not some kind of hoax and that the voice on the other end did belong to one of the killers. The problem, however, was that while investigators knew about the unknown suspect's car, there was also countless dark sedans in this county, and even narrowing it down to a green Chevy sedan was little help.

Of course. So with little to go on and no new evidence forthcoming, investigators turned to the public for help, and they placed an ad on the front page of the local newspaper. The ad said, our concerns are what have been seen either Wednesday or Thursday, August 14th or 15th during the day or night. And the ad urged Seneca County residents to come forward if they'd seen, among other things, anyone hitchhiking or had picked up any hitchhikers, saw any strangers or suspicious individuals in the area, or if they quote, saw any cars that aroused their

curiosity. Okay. So aware that such an advertisement was unusual, state police investigator Thomas Moran was upfront with locals about the frustrating nature of this case. He said, we're at the point where we need answers to those questions for the case to move forward. The fact that she was not from this area and had little contact with the people around here makes this a difficult case. Yeah, and it does. Yeah. His comments might have been frustrating and probably sounded like defeatist to some,

but he wasn't wrong about the difficulty of this case. No, unfortunately. She'd only been in town for a couple of days and she had never been there before. And the only people she knew in this area were all in the same room at James' trailer on the night of the murder. That meant whoever had killed her was a stranger to her. And strangers are obviously among the more notoriously difficult types of murders to solve because there's no connections, no social ties, nothing to trace victim to killer. Yeah. So equally problematic was the lack of evidence found at the scene. Like I said,

there was no murder weapon and there wasn't really any forensic evidence that could point them to a suspect. All they had at that point were some blood and soil samples and they did have some skin cells discovered on Kristin's body. But DNA testing was still several years in the future. We didn't have that yet. Where's that DNA now? We'll get there. We'll get there and we'll get frustrated as a group. Oh no.

Yeah, so at this point in the investigation that I'm talking about now, those samples weren't likely to be of much use for a long, long time. Yeah, of course. So at the end of August, Major Richard Tonze told reporters, we've had between 220 and 230 leads of various types, and I've assigned

several investigators to the case, but we have no one we term a suspect at this point. That's awful. That many leads and no suspects. And nothing. It's unclear whether local police were confident or even hopeful that they'd eventually find the killer, but what is evident from the statements made in late August and early September is that without any new information, the case was in danger of going cold. In the few months after Kristin's murder, investigators struggle to make anything resembling progress much to the disappointment of the public and to Kristin's family. Fire chief Robert Favreau said, people are pretty upset about this murder.

It's changed their lifestyle to being more security conscious. And he was among the handful of locals who worked to establish a $5,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of Kristen's killer, which they hoped would spur the investigation back in the high gear, but it didn't do much. He said, maybe this reward will prompt someone who for whatever reason has not come forth with vital information to do so. But like I said,

the reward would go unclaimed. Leeds just kept drying up and the case got colder and colder. So now, desperate for information, investigators took to local television stations in upstate New York to urge residents to come forward if they knew anything that could lead to an arrest. They even went as far as filming a reenactment of the murder which aired on Crimestoppers. Wow. It was a long time ago. Warren said, different time. Warren said that got some calls but nothing significant. There's been no breakthrough and again no weapon found yet. So within six weeks now of Kristen's murder The story had slipped from the front pages of the paper as we've heard so many times before Disappeared from locals minds the front of locals minds at least but an article in the Democrat and Chronicle reported in late September It's been less than six weeks since Kristen O'Connell's nude body was found in a nearby cornfield

But over people don't talk much about it anymore. Wow. It's sad. That's wild. Sad. And it just like it really speaks to the state of the world at all times. Yeah. That in six weeks, you can forget about a teenager being found in a cornfield murdered in the nude. Yeah. Like like you're just onto the next thing. It's always society has always been that way. Yeah. Always been that way.

It's sad, but it really is. I think everybody gets swept up in it. Well, and it's gotten much worse now. Well, it's got like social media and the Internet. Because there's just always something new. The attention span to these kind of things. It's blink and you miss it. Yeah, it's so true. But the desire to move on for the murder was obviously deeply frustrating

for those who were involved in the case heavily, like Robert Favreau. He said, I can't understand how people could forget so quickly. To me, there are so many questions. Someone out there is a person who committed murder. Who is it? Why? Where are they? Yeah. And it was a brutal murder. Brutal, her throat was slashed and she'd been stabbed multiple times and she was stripped at some point, you know? But for many of the residents of Ovid and the surrounding towns, Kristen's murder aroused serious fears

that they would much rather not have to confront. So I think that's why people just push that to the back of their mind. It's a nice pattern of avoidance. Yep, local resident Bonnie Palmer told a reporter, there's an awful lot of people here that are still scared. It's something that's very ugly and you want to forget it. So you put it in the back of your mind and you don't talk about it. Yeah, it's human nature. It is. So while the public had begun moving on from the murder,

investigators with the New York State Police continued to follow up on every tip they received. In early 1986, Richard Tonsie and one of his fellow investigators actually got approval to travel out of state and re-interview some of the early witnesses after they got a new lead that new information may have come to light. Tonsie was very hopeful that this could have been their best lead yet, but that lead and the supposed new information ultimately led nowhere and And he found himself right back to where they were in August, 1985. I hate this. I know. Hey weirdos, I'm Lindsay Graham from the podcast American History Tellers. And if you're still

reeling from Ash and Elena's episode on the Boston molasses disaster and you want to dive even deeper, you're in luck. My show doesn't usually venture too far into the spooky or creepy, but we've dedicated two full episodes to uncovering fascinating details about this bizarre molasses catastrophe. From the company's negligence to the victims' harrowing stories, we explore how this strange event reshaped industrial safety laws and left an indelible mark on Boston's history. And the Boston molasses disaster is just one of many fascinating stories waiting for you on American History Tellers. We take you to the events, the times, and the people that shaped

our nation and show you how our history affected them, their families, and affects you today. Follow American History Tellers on the Wondery app or wherever After six months of investigation, police became decidedly less optimistic than their prospects of catching the killer. Senior investigator Robert Feynour said in February of 1986, We've got very, very little to go on. The physical evidence is almost nothing. We've got no fingerprints, no suspects, no identification, no leads and no witnesses. By that point, investigators had traveled to six different states to interview potential witnesses and review similar cases even, but after doing so, they were still no closer to cracking the case. Wow, this is brutal. And it really isn't a lack of effort, it seems. Yeah, it seems like they were really trying. Right.

In the months and now years that followed Kristin's death, the investigation lost steam, of course. But throughout that period, her parents, Phyllis and Michael O'Connell, kept their own investigation going of their daughter's murder in hopes of finding the killer. Yeah. Almost immediately upon learning of Kristin's death, they hired a private investigator, but the result of that investigator's report has not been made public. In August of 1986, a year after Kristen's murder, Phyllis and Michael actually traveled to Ovid in the hope that their presence might inspire somebody to come forward. On a visit to the crime scene, Phyllis told a reporter,

you always hope that you can see something nobody else has noticed. Of course. I can't imagine being like in that position. They must have been so frustrated. Yeah. It must still be so frustrated. They must have been so frustrated. Yeah. It must still be so frustrated. And just like desperate for anything. To the O'Connell's, the lack of progress in the case was unfathomable, which obviously

Michael said, it might not have been a person who lives in Ovid, but someone who lives 20 or even 100 miles away, but knew the area around here. It's just very hard for us to grasp the concept of this being a random thing. Yeah, of course. Investigators did acknowledge that it was possible that Kristin was the victim of a serial killer, and they insisted that they were checking similar crimes reported around the country,

but still, they weren't getting anything. Jesus, really? I know. So the following August, 1987, the O'Connells were back in Ovid on the second anniversary now of Kristen's murder. And this time they were in the company of two psychics that they hired back home in Burnsville.

I don't believe them. I don't either at that two years of unanswered questions, I would be going to psychics myself. Michael told a reporter the information they have supplied us with thus far has provided a couple of very strong leads. And we hope this will be resolved in a short period of time." Oh man, the hope. I know. The psychics agreed with Michael O'Connell's sentiment though.

One of them said, "...the feelings and psychic impressions in this area are as strong as they were two years ago. My impression is that there are people who have substantial knowledge of this murder." I mean... I don't think that was like... You know how I feel about psychics at crime scenes? I think that's a little, I could also say that. That's the thing. Yeah, it's like, okay, that wasn't extraordinarily helpful. I don't know if that was a prediction so much as a commentary

on the case. As just something that is common knowledge. Yeah. Yeah. But the psychics who came to Ovid with the O'Connell's may have given them hope that their daughter's murder would be solved But as we know we're here today talking about it years past without an arrest or even a suspect and this is awful in 1993 tragedy struck again when Michael O'Connell died unexpectedly At the age of 51. Oh super young super young. He never obviously learned who was responsible for his daughter's death Damn. Yeah. So now for years, Kristin O'Connell's case was shelved as investigators shifted their attention to new and more pressing matters. But then in early 1996, a hair sample found on Kristin's body led investigators to a man named Gary Harris. He was a former Ovid resident who

was 15 at the time of the murder. According to Seneca County District Attorney Donna Cathy, Harris was, quote, seen in the area where O'Connell was staying on the night of her murder. At the time of the murder, the Harris were only identifiable as belonging to a black male. But Harris came to the attention of investigators after he was arrested for an armed robbery in New York

in 1996. Unfortunately, though, a month after announcing Harris as a suspect, the lab results came back as inconclusive on the Harris sample. And investigators were forced to rule Harris out as a suspect. Fuck. Although nearly 15 years would pass before the O'Connell case was back in the news, the testing of the hair sample in 1996 was a strong indication that forensic evidence could

very well be the thing that solved Kristen's murder. And I still believe it could be. By the time the case was back in the headlines, 25 years had passed. And in that time, like we know, scientific and technological advances had made it possible to solve cold cases with the evidence that had just been sitting on shelves for decades at that point. I've seen that happen so many times. Look at the Golden State Killer. In Kristen's case, like I said, blood samples and skin fragments had been collected from her body that could lead to her killer, but as it turned out things wouldn't be quite as easy as submitting the samples for DNA testing. Why? In August 2009, New York State

police had received approval of funds for up to $40,000 in order to hire a Dutch forensic lab known for their pioneering work and touch DNA. Let's go. And that's a type of analysis that can identify an individual from a smallest sample. But the problem was that the New York State Health Department refused to allow investigators to contract with the Amsterdam-based company because they weren't certified in New York. Come on.

In his statement to the press, district attorney Richard Swinehart told reporters, we feel this is our last best effort to solve this case. We are very frustrated with the bureaucracy of the Department of Health and that they won't take a world-leading lab where the lab people have testified in other states in our country as experts on homicide cases and won't let them at least examine the evidence while they're being certified. Yeah, that's New York, get it fucking together.

That's weird. Get it fucking together. That's suspicious. That's real fucking suspicious. Yeah. Why the fuck, why? Yeah. Are you kidding me?

That doesn't make any sense. That's infuriating. It doesn't make any sense. Kristin's family was equally frustrated with the state's decision to deny the testing until the lab applied for and received certification in New York. Kristen's brother Kyle O'Connor said, they're railroading for their own purposes. There could be no other reason. Yeah, why the fuck would you stop that? And he said there, and this is a quote from him, they're covering something up. They haven't come up with a good viable reason why this should not be allowed. And it's wild to me that they're like, you know, you look shady. So if you're not covering something up, guess what?

You look like you're covering something up. So it's like you should probably move this forward so that you can stop everybody from thinking you did something fucked up. Yeah, exactly. Because right now, I think you did something fucked up. Well, the family was again disappointed in 2010 when they learned that a forensic scientist who had been named in an evidence falsification case possibly handled evidence in Kristen's case. Shut the fuck up. Possibly. This scientist is said to have falsified data in multiple cases and then went on to falsify records to cover up that fake data.

I am speechless. Which like why? Like why? Why? You are fucking with people's lives. Just do your job. Phyllis said I mean my god this is an important job they're doing and how could they allow this and not be supervised properly? It's just beyond me. Yeah. But what I will tell you is that there's a petition we are going to share on socials and in the show notes. And it surrounds all of the DNA testing in Christine's case. And it goes into more detail about the issues that the family has faced trying to get the DNA tested.

And importantly, most importantly, is asking the New York State Health Commissioner to approve that lab. Let's go, motherfucker. I'm going to share it, and we are all going to sign the shit out of it. Honestly, everyone annoy the shit out of them until they do this, because like, what are you doing?

Come on. Like, come on. This literal DNA. Like, what are you doing? And it's degrading the more it sits. Exactly. And it's like, are you just waiting for it to degrade? Well, that's exactly it. What the fuck? But also this specific lab's like, you're just waiting for it to degrade? Well, that's exactly it.

What the fuck? But also this specific lab, like- They're pioneers in this. They are, exactly. Like, they know what they're doing with this. So it's weird that you're not- Allowing them to even look at it while they're getting certain.

Like, come on. And not even really giving a valid reason. No, it's shady. And if you don't wanna look shady, let them test it. Yeah, if you don't wanna look shady, then let them do it. Despite the best efforts of the O'Connell family, though, investigators even, and several high profile politicians

actually, it appears that the skin fragments discovered on Kristin's body still have not been submitted for DNA testing. That's shameful as fuck. That is shameful. Many, many, like even politicians have been calling on the New York State Health Department being like, just allow this. Many, many, like even politicians have been calling on the New York State Health Department being like, just allow this, just sign off on it.

Ah, can't let up on that. Yeah, can't let up. But now 40 years after her daughter's death, Phyllis O'Connell worries that her daughter's case will never be solved because of this. Oh, we can't let that happen. And soon she worries that there will be nobody left to advocate for Kristen.

In 2023, she said, I promised Kristen till the day I die, I will be after who killed her. And after four decades, her message remains the same as it did the day she learned her daughter was murdered. She said, don't keep secrets. Don't keep something like this going, because maybe the next person might be your daughter,

and you will know the kind of pain it is to lose a daughter and especially through murder. That just like destroys my soul. Everyone go sign that petition. I'm gonna we're gonna put it in the show notes and we'll share it on socials as well. It's a long link so if I read it here it'll get lost. Yeah so I'll put it in socials and again on the show notes. Yep so it'll be right at the bottom of this episode in the show notes. You'll be able to see it and link it. There'll be a link. Well, literally, like you can click the link.

Yeah, so you can click it. And then also again, like Ash said, in the socials, we will do it because I- We're sharing that shit everywhere. I want this. I want them to have to move on this. I want them to have to move on this. And I want Phyllis, at least, to be able to-

I want Phyllis to see the be able to see the movement right and not have to live every day worrying that like she's gonna pass away someday without knowing what happened to her daughter and that she's gonna that this DNA is just sitting there right that must be the most frustrating thing in the entire world the DNA is sitting there and the lab is sitting there who has the technology and the least To at least try to do this. Right, right. Just give it a shot. What the fuck are we doing stopping murders from being solved through red tape? Fuck that.

Yeah, it shouldn't even be a thing. Fuck that. It shouldn't be a thing. So definitely sign that petition. And also anybody with information about this case because somebody out there knows something. Somebody saw something, somebody knows something. Somebody, yeah.

Any information, anybody with any information is asked to contact the New York State Police and that number is 585-398-4125. Again, 585-398-4125. Damn. I want this case to be solved. I want them to submit that DNA. I want that to at least be put into motion. Yeah. It's got it. Nobody's saying that it's like that 100% it's gonna work,

but why the fuck not try? Why not try? Why not try? And like, hey, politicians and everybody and whoever's like red taping this if you're listening. Her dad died without knowing what happened. Yeah, her mom shouldn't have to die without knowing what happened to her daughter. And what if this was your kid? Like her mom said, what if this would you want that DNA sitting on a shelf and just because a red tape and bullshit bureaucracy, it doesn't get submitted to a pioneering lab that could potentially give you the answers you need? Would you be fine with that? Because you'd be like, well, that's like, well, like, is that what you would do? No. Like, no. You want if it was for you, you'd be slicing through that red tape.

Exactly. Because it's not yours. You're you don't give a shit. But put yourself in somebody else's shoes. Empathy, people. So frustrating. I know it really is. I really I hope that we get news soon. I just want this to move forward. It's gotta. It's gotta. Yeah. 40 years and our family has no fucking answers.

Like, come on. Like her parents lost a child, her brother lost a sister. Yeah. Come on. Let's go. And somebody is just out there walking around. Let's go, girls. Who did it?

Let's go. Let's get this moving. Come on. You guys are fucking powerful as hell. You are. By the way, yeah, you are powerful. So you guys are fucking powerful. You are. So by the way, yeah, you are powerful. Go sign this petition, everybody. Yeah. Because we asked if you were able to,

to share and donate to the Alison Botha fundraiser. You guys surpassed her goal. Yeah, you blew it up. You blew it up. Thank you. You're powerful as fuck. We can get this shit to happen. And you get shit moving and you get shit done. One thing

you do it before. One thing about morbid listeners they get shit done. So we know you guys can do this. Let's do this. You're badass motherfuckers and you give a shit so do it. Exactly and with that being said we hope that you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. Keep it so weird that you sign the shit out of this petition and you get everyone in your goddamn life to sign that shit too. Let's go! Sign it! Bye!

Bye! Bye! So I'm sorry. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. How far would you go to protect your legacy? Scamfluencers is a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns

of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims, and what's left once the facade falls away. Back in the 80s, a man named Billy Mitchell achieved what many thought was impossible, a perfect Pac-Man score and world record in Donkey Kong. He became the face of competitive arcade gaming and built an empire around his achievements. But he was so obsessed with being the best that he was willing to do anything to hold on to his high score. When a 2007 documentary called The King of Kong pushed him into the mainstream spotlight, it exposed some troubling

behavior. Mitchell allegedly manipulated scores, colluded with referees, and systematically blocked other players from breaking his records. Was Billy really the King of Kong, or was his entire legacy built on deception? Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.