Morbid - Episode 686: Glen Helzer and the Children of Thunder (Part 2)

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

When Ivan and Annette Stineman disappeared from their home in Concord, California in the summer of 2000, it immediately raised red alarmed with those closest to the elderly couple. Those alarms proved to be justified when, a week later, the remains of the Stinemans and three others were discovered in duffel bags in Sacramento River Delta.The day after the remains were found in river, investigators arrested Taylor and Justin Helzer, and Justin’s girlfriend, Dawn Godman, for the murders of Ivan and Annette Stineman. A short time later, they would also be charged with the murders of Taylor’s girlfriend, Selina Bishop, her mother, Jenny Villarin, and Villarin’s boyfriend, Jim Gamble.At first, investigators believed the murders were part of a plot to extort the Stinemans for a large amount of money, but the deeper they dug into the lives and backgrounds of the killers, a different and far more bizarre motive began to emerge.Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAguila, Justino. 2000. "Boyfriend probed in homicides." San Francisco Examiner, August 7: 3.Bulwa, Demian. 2004. "Killer lays out grisly details of murder spree." San Francisco Chronicle, May 28.Kim, Ryan. 2000. "Double slaying rattles Marin town." San Francisco Examiner, August 4: 16.Lee, Henry K. 2013. "Justin Helzer hangs himself in prison." San Francisco Chronicle, April 16.People of the State of California v. Helzer. 2024. S132256 (Supreme Court of California, January 22).Read, Simon. 2004. "Jury finds Helzer guilty of murder." East Bay Times, June 17.San Francisco Examiner. 2000. "Delta body parts identified ." San Francisco Examiner, August 9.—. 2000. "Elvin Bishop's daughter missing." San Francisco Examiner, August 5: 3.Scott, Robert. 2005. Unholy Sacrifice. New York, NY: Pinnacle Books.Stay in the know - wondery.fm/morbid-wondery.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey weirdos, before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about a place where the darkness never ends. Wondery Plus. It's like stepping into a haunted mansion where the floorboards creak with ad-free episodes and early access to new episodes lurks around every corner. So come join us, if you dare. Morbid is available one week early and ad-free only on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or

in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a Morbid Network Podcast. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand view's shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in the supernatural thriller that will keep you on the edge of your seat.

Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. My name is TJ Raphael. I'm the host of Liberty Lost, a new podcast about who gets to be a mother and the control of young women

hidden behind the veil of faith. Binge all episodes of Liberty Lost ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is More Bid. There it is. One time we were like, we're going to stop singing. And then we said, we never will.

Yeah. It's just, we never have. It's who we are. Yeah. I wouldn't want you to change. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Although I have changed a lot. I realized recently how fucking old I am. Yeah, I mean we're all in that space

You hit 20 now. I don't know what anyone's talking about anymore than these young kids saying words It's it's a little blissful though. It kind of is cuz you're just like I don't know what that is Yeah, I don't want to um, it's such a difference though from when we started this but I was 21 when we started this That's crazy, which is I was 21 when we started this. That's crazy. Which is I was like just about to turn 22. But yeah, that feels like a whole other person. Entirely different people.

What an evolution listening to this must be. Yeah, people have said that before. Like, wow, I get comments a lot that are like, I feel like I've watched you grow up. I'm like, yeah, like me too. I'm like, I feel like you all have as well. But yeah, it's crazy. I stayed up really late last night and I'm feeling it today. Yeah, you know, Me too, man. I'm like, I feel like you all have as well. But yeah, it's crazy. I stayed up really late last night and I'm feeling it today. Yeah, you know, that's part of being old.

That's what I mean. Yeah. I used to stay up until like two o'clock in the morning and then come record and be like, yeah, woohoo, let's go. No, I'm like, hey weirdos, I have a headache and I didn't even drink anything. And my sleep thing says I didn't get optimal sleep. My aura ring sleep score is 68 today. Yeah, we're not sponsored by aura ring.

But if you want to sponsor us. Because we both have one. Ash convinced me to get one because I've been trying to like fix my sleep habits. Because I'm a good sleeper when I sleep. Me too. But I don't have good habits about like going to bed at a normal hour. Yeah. Like a regular set time.

And it's actually, it's helpful. So beneficial to your body and like your hormone balance to go to sleep and wake up around the same time, even on your days off, which on my days off, I'm out. I'm sleeping in. I'm staying up to like two o'clock in the morning to watch TV, but then I'm sleeping in. Oh yeah. No, and that's so bad.

But then I feel, and then it's hard to like when you get back into the week, it's hard to recalibrate. Yeah. And I just need to like, I've been wanting to like make sure, cause actually my kids came home and they have health class and their curriculum obviously. And so shout out to their health teacher cause they fucking love their health teacher. They do. We're not going to name them, but shout out to you.

That person is great. So, but they came home one day and they were like, Mama, guess what I learned today? And I was like, Oh boy, what? And they were like, sitting is the new smoking. And I was like, Whoa, I've been telling you that I know. And that hit. Yeah. That hit. I was like, Oh, they're like teaching that. Like, that's a real thing. And we sit so much. We're fucking podcast. Because we're recording sitting here or taking meetings, taking meetings, sitting down or researching sitting down or like I'm writing sitting down.

Like I'm I was like, oh, I got to change this shit. So I think the again, not an ad. No, the orering I think, is helping, like, just make me understand where my times of sediment living are sitting in the middle of my day so that I can kind of change it up and be like, you know what, take a walk around the neighborhood. Yeah, I just like it better than like some other things I've tried in the past, too, because this really does feel like an ad, but it's not. It stays charged like so much longer. Yeah, you know ad. We just like it a lot. This is an organic just like we

dig it. It's also like not it's like it's an investment but it's not crazy expensive. For what you get out of it I think it's definitely. But again not an ad so if you want to buy one do it if you don't. No skin off of my nose. Yeah. But anyway. That was just organic. I'm trying to think of anything else fun that has occurred. We're planning a fairy birthday party for Ma. Oh, yes. It's my mom's 79th birthday.

It's 79 or 78? 79. Fuck. Yeah. You're sure? I'm positive. Are you sure you know how old your mom is? God damn. I mean, I don't know how old my mom is.

She was 3079. Damn. And we decided we're going to throw her a total, she loves fairies. She's like a woodland creature. Like she would live in a fantasy realm. She talks to the fairies. She's always believed in fairies. She's always told me about fairies. She used to take us out to talk to the fairies. Yeah. We made fairy gardens, all the good stuff. So I was like, she's so cool.

We got to do a fairy theme. So I'm going full fairy theme for this, and I'm excited about it. I'm making an enchanted fairy cake, which I will share with you when I make it. Yeah, I'm going to be up to my ears and cake this weekend. Yeah. It's also my nephew's third birthday and I'm making his blippy cake. Oh, fun. So I got a fairy cake and a blippy cake going on. Fairy cake and blippy cake.

And I just did a recital cake too, which I made a Barbie cake. That was fun. Your cake, and that was amazing. I've been caking in these streets. True. But yeah. That's what's up with us. Horror rings and fairy parties. There was another thing I was about to talk about, but I forgot. What are you going to say? Oh, this is just a quick little recommendation. I think it's coming out in September, but I'm reading Richard Chismar's new book that's

coming out in September. And it's called Widow's Point, The Complete Haunting. It sounds really good. This, I mean, I'm going to, I'll post it and everything like that. But guys, pre-order this book when you can because I'm telling you, this book is so fucking good. It literally, first time since reading Salem's Lot when I was like literally 12,

that I could not sleep one night. I couldn't fall asleep. Oh damn, if you felt that way, I'm gonna be scared shitless. I felt like super, it's so spooky. Oh, I love that. It's like the perfect vibes for like, you know, summer ween vibes and like, you know,

it's got, it's just got the right ghost story. Just to be all creeped out. Yeah, I'm telling you, it's called Widow's Point. It'll be out in September. Look for it. Again, this is also not an ad. It's just, these are just organic things that are real. Yeah.

But yeah, that's, that's one of my little, this is what I'm doing right now. I love that. Yeah. And I guess we should get back into this story. Yeah, I already told you everything I'm doing right now. I told you all the things, okay? Yeah. I'm old. I don't have that much going on anymore. None of us do. All right, wait, but this is part two.

And actually, I have something to say. I have something to say. We recorded the part one at at the end of the week, and usually sometimes we'll record them closer together. I have been thinking about this case and wanting to know what happened. I actually love to hear that. Yeah, no, for real.

Yeah, this is a very interesting one, really sad, but really interesting. You left on such a cliffhanger. Yeah, when we last spoke, we were talking about Glenn Taylor-Helzer, just talking about who he was, his life before all of this. We discussed the disappearance of Ivan and Annette Steinman, and we talked about the murders of Jennifer and James in Marin County.

And we were just kind of backtracking to talk about, we were referring to him as Taylor, just for, to make it easy, but Glenn Taylor Hauser. So we talked about his marriage, we talked about how he was like super into the Mormon church. He had a very radicalized grandfather that he lived with for a while that he was feeling a lot of anxiety about not living up to the standards, a lot going on. He also happened to work at Morgan Stanley as a financial advisor. And that was something that was mentioned in the beginning as well. It came full circle at the end. It did. So, you know, that was just my little quick little summary of the first part, but go listen to the first part if you haven't listened to it,

because you're going to be a little lost here. So in Concord now, after this, after the murders in Marin County, investigators continued to struggle to find any evidence that can indicate what the hell happened to Ivan and Annette Steinman. At this point, they're just like lost. A few days after their disappearance,

police in Oakland, California located their minivan. It had been abandoned in a pretty bad part of the city, but there was no signs of Ivan in a net, which is not good. Just desperate to make progress, a spokesperson for the Concord police department went on a local news program or a few of them really, and made a plea to the public. They were just asking for anyone to come forward if they knew anything that could help find Ivan and Annette. They were desperate at this point. Vicki Sexton, who was a manager of Cal Fed,

was watching TV, happened to be watching TV the night that they made these pleas, and recognized the photo of Ivan and Annette immediately. In fact, just a few days before that, Vicki had a strange encounter with a customer at work that involved the Steinmans. So she called the Concord police and she reported everything she knew. Now, on the afternoon of August 1st, Vicki was working in her office when one of the tellers asked if she maybe had a minute to speak with

a customer. Vicki said she did, but she was not really expecting what was going to happen. According to Vicki, the customer was what she described as a larger blonde woman in a wheelchair, dressed in a bright lime green pantsuit, large cowboy hat, and black driving gloves. Which is sounds like a motherfucking sleigh. Interesting. The woman introduced herself as Jackie and immediately launched into a very strange, very convoluted story about two of Vicki's customers, Ivan and Annette Steinman. According to Jackie, the Steinman's granddaughter, Selena Bishop, was in desperate need of medical attention in San Diego and the elderly couple had agreed to pay for the surgery.

But they needed to put the money into Selena's account. At that point, Jackie presented two checks drawn on the Steinman's account, one in the amount of $67,000 and another in the amount of $33,000. Both had been signed, allegedly, by Ivan Steinman. That's weird. Hi, I'm Lindsay Graham, the host of Wondry's podcast American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history, events that have shaped who we are as a country and that continue to define the American experience. American Scandal tells marquee stories about American politics, like the break-in at the Watergate Hotel, an event that led to the downfall of a president and raised questions about the

future of American democracy. We go behind the scenes looking at devastating financial crimes, like the fraud committed at Enron and Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme. And we tell stories of complicated public figures like Edward Snowden and Monica Lewinsky, people who found themselves thrust into the spotlight and who spurred debates about the future of the country. Follow American Scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Today is the worst day of Abby's life. The 17-year-old cradles her newborn son in her arms. They all saw how much I loved him. They didn't have to take him from me. Between 1945 and the early 1970s, families ship their pregnant teenage daughters to maternity homes

and force them to secretly place their babies for adoption. In hidden corners across America, it's still happening. My parents had me locked up in the godparent home against my will. They worked with them to manipulate me and to steal my son away from me. The godparent home is the brainchild of controversial preacher Jerry Falwell, the father of the modern evangelical right and the founder of Liberty University, where powerful men, emboldened by their faith, determine who gets to be a parent

and who must give their child away. Follow Liberty Lost on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow Liberty Lost on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. To Vicki, who had worked at various banks for more than a decade, this was bizarre. To say the very least, the Steinmans had been customers of the bank for years, like forever, and had always done their own banking. So it was pretty strange that they would just send a stranger to deposit the money into an account

of a person she'd never heard of. And a stranger in a lime green pantsuit, no less. And cowboy hat and black driving. It's a little cray cray. This is a lot to take in. And again, putting the money into an account of a person that Vicky had never heard of before. Yeah.

And Zelina's not their granddaughter at all. Putting the money into an account of a person that Vicki had never heard of before. Yeah. I'm sorry, what? And Selena's not their granddaughter. No. At all. So Vicki explained to Jackie that the situation was unusual and said she would need to call the Steinmans to get their approval. However, when they called the number on the account, no one answered. Weird.

Jackie said, oh, they just moved and handed Vicky a different phone number. So Vicky placed the call to the new number and a man answered, but it did not sound like Ivan Steinman. It sounded like the voice of a young man. Both Jackie and the man on the phone repeated that it was very important that the money get into the account and cleared as soon as possible as time was of the essence. I'm like, guys, you gotta be a little less sus. And also to like prey on people like this is so fucked up and disgusting.

To make Vicky feel like she's this poor girl could possibly die. Yeah. Vicky was sympathetic, obviously, and was feeling some type of way about this. But she explained to Jackie that she needed to speak with the account manager at Morgan Stanley, but like, this is too weird. And this was probably way above her at this point. So that call proved equally unsuccessful since Vicki didn't have the couple's social security numbers

and nobody else could give them. She explained as much to Jackie who said she would get the numbers and be back as soon as possible. As she wheeled herself out of the office and then out of the building, it occurred to Vicki that Jackie had left through the front door. The bank had no ramp at the front door. And customers using wheelchairs always entered via an elevator from the second floor parking lot. Leaving through the front door, Jackie would have had to navigate 16 stone steps

down to the street, which would have been, um... Impossible. Pretty difficult. Dangerous. For someone to do in a wheelchair. What the fuck? Impossible is probably the better word for it. Also, good on Vicky, though, for having, like, such a strange situation take place. Like, obviously, that would be pretty confusing,

and you'd just be sitting there like, what? And still have, like, the wherewithal to be eagle-eyed about the whole thing and observe. Because somebody else, frankly, like I might have missed that. Because you might have just been like, what the fuck just happened? And like not paid attention. Yeah, good on her. Yeah.

Vicki Sexton's story connected the Steinman's case now to the murders in Marin County. Right. Because Selena is Jennifer's daughter. This is a strange case, bro. And now those two cases are also connected to the missing persons case of Selena Bishop, because we don't know where she is. Right, right, right. And now those two cases are also connected to the missing persons case of Selena Bishop because we don't know where she is. Right, right, right.

But it was only the beginning of a much stranger story somehow. I had a feeling. Back in Marin County, sheriff's officers had received a warrant for Justin Helzer's gun. Justin is Glenn Taylor Hauser's brother. Yes. Which they suspected had been used in the murders of Jennifer and James a few days earlier. Because he had recently bought a 9mm. When they arrived at the small house on Saddlewood Court, detectives were first met at the door

by Justin, who let them enter. Once inside, they also met Justin's brother, Glenn Taylor-Helzer, and Justin's girlfriend, Dawn Godman. Now, Justin was presented with the warrant, but he claimed he no longer had the gun. No matter what, they were going to search the house, so they did, and they found a number of surprising and very alarming things. In addition to a large amount of ecstasy found in the home, they also discovered rope, leg irons, a taser, and several documents that appeared to belong to Ivan Steinman. Oh, fuck.

Based on the discovery of the drugs alone, investigators placed the homeowners, Justin and Taylor, under arrest. But before they could get the handcuffs on Taylor, he broke away and ran, wearing only his underwear. No. Mm-hmm. So the team of investigators spread out across the neighborhood trying to search for him, but he didn't appear to be anywhere.

In the meantime, Taylor found himself in the backyard of a neighbor who spotted him in the yard. Thinking the young man was, you know, just one of her son's friends, she opened the door and was like, Do you need help friend? Like what's going on? As soon as he was inside the house, he grabbed a large kitchen knife and took the woman hostage. Oh shit. Talk about escalation.

Never help people. After, never help. Like just lock your door and go about your business and call someone. After cutting his hair in their kitchen and stealing some of her son's clothing, Taylor left the house and began to run again. Without her now?

Without her now. What the fuck? He hadn't made it more than a few hundred feet when he ran straight into two sheriff's deputies who were able to take him into custody without incident. Dude. So went through all that just to run straight into two sheriff's deputies. What a dumbass. So that afternoon an announcement was made about the rest of the Helzers and Don, but

detectives were careful not to reveal too much information to the press as they often are, including whether Taylor was Selena Bishop's boyfriend, because remember back that's who we're connecting him to, previously known as Jordan. Remember we found out he was being referred to as Jordan, found out once they figured out who he was and they looked into it, it is Glenn Taylor. It is okay. That all changed later that afternoon though, when a horrible discovery was made in Sacramento County. Oh no, is it Selena?

On the afternoon of August 8th, the manager of Willow Berm Marina, Bolton Linden was riding his jet ski on the Sacramento River Delta when he spotted three large duffel bags floating in the water. Linden dragged the bags back to shore because he thinking they're, you know, I don't know what's in these, they're duffel bags, but maybe something inside will tell me who these belong to. Yeah. So we opened them up.

Inside the first bag, Lyndon discovered a human head and what he described as, quote, a lot of body parts. Oh, Christ. Lyndon ran to the nearest phone immediately and reported it to the authorities who arrived at the scene very quickly. Lyndon's wife, Rachel, said it was creepy when they lifted up the canvas bag. You could see blood mixed with the water. We knew right away this was trouble.

Oh, wow. And he was just out on his jet ski. Yeah, just having a nice time. Yeah. Investigators assembled a large dive team and by the end of the day, they had recovered nine duffel bags. What the fuck? All containing human remains wrapped individually in plastic. Oh, so is this everybody? So the duffel bags themselves had been slit along the sides, probably to allow water inside and sink the bags. Yeah. In the statement

to the press, Sacramento County Sheriff Sergeant Dennis Arnall said, this is an area that lends itself to the disposing of evidence of bodies. It's remote, it's dark, and if you want to dump something here, you're not likely to get caught. Maybe word that differently. Maybe don't tell everybody that. Yeah, maybe don't make that public knowledge. Unless you're going to make that, uh, now a heavily guarded area.

For real. Um, according to Arnall, it was most likely that the bags had been dropped off the side of the Highway 12 bridge, about a mile and a half away, and they floated to where they were discovered. It didn't take long to identify two of the bodies as those of Ivan and Annette Steinman. Oh, that's awful. But the third body was more challenging to identify. It appeared that a portion of skin had been removed from the shoulder of the third victim,

which was where Selena Bishop was known to have had a tattoo. But detectives didn't want to jump to conclusions, of course. Still, the discovery of the bodies broke the case open and investigators were finally willing to disclose some more facts about the case to the press, including that the man previously referred to as Jordan was in fact Glenn Taylor-Houser. Finally, when the mugshots were shown to Vicki Sexton from Cal Fed, she confirmed that the woman who introduced herself as Jackie was Dawn Godman. Yeah, not wheelchair-bound.

Nope. From the moment they were arrested, Taylor refused to speak to police about anything. But when the discoveries of the bodies were made and the identification of Selena Bishop's remains, war was made a short time later. Don and Justin, now facing very serious charges, suddenly began cooperating. Based on their account of events, the entire scheme sounded like a fairly straightforward extortion and murder case. While still working at Morgan Stanley years earlier, Taylor had been the Steinman's account manager.

Wow, what a piece of shit. And knew they had a decent amount of money saved in their account. On the night of July 31st, Taylor and Justin visited the Steinman's at their house, where they were spotted by the couple's neighbor, who thought they were Mormon missionaries. That night, they kidnapped the couple and brought them back spotted by the couple's neighbor, who thought they were Mormon missionaries. That night, they kidnapped the couple and brought them back to Justin and Taylor's home, where with the help of Dawn, they tortured them for days in order to get them to sign

the checks that Dawn eventually tried to deposit into the account in Selena's name at Cal Fed. Once they got what they wanted from the Steinmans, they murdered the couple. According to the coroner's report, Annette's cause of death was a large knife wound across her throat. And Ivan died from blunt force trauma. And these people just lived like a beautiful life together, had children, were enjoying their retirement. And Ivan had died from blunt force trauma, apparently after Taylor had repeatedly beat the man's head against the floor. This is an elderly couple. This is horrific. Now, according to Justin and Dawn, Selena

Bishop had nothing to do with the kidnapping, murder or extortion plot. Taylor had met Selena a few months earlier and recognizing that she was somewhat naive and eager to please, he lured her into the scheme by pretending to have a romantic interest in her. So fucked up. Selena's function in the plot was basically limited to opening the bank account in her name. Yeah. But she was under a totally different, like what she thought was actually happening here

was had nothing to do with this. Yeah, she thought she was just helping him as like his ex-wife. Like he didn't want his ex-wife to get like his new fucking money or whatever. Yeah. Now, again, she intended it was just going to be to hide that money from his ex-wife, but once her function in the plot had been served, Selena was killed with a single blow to the head from a hammer. Holy shit, these guys are brutal. When it came to the deaths of Selena's mother, Jennifer, and her boyfriend, Jim, their connection was even more tenuous

and their deaths, like somehow, even an escalated version of tragic. Taylor had gone out of his way to avoid meeting Selena's friends and family, specifically because he knew there was a chance they could link him back to her once he committed the murders. He had been mostly successful in this,

but then Jennifer was determined to meet him and had managed to do so about a month before the murders. And a few times over. Because remember, she stopped by. Knowing that she could easily trace him back to her daughter, Taylor and Justin went to Selena's apartment in the early morning hours of August 3rd. There they shot and killed Jennifer in order to prevent her from identifying him later. Wow. Jim Gamble was murdered simply because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That's horrific. Based on the statements from John Don and Justin, it was as investigators basically assumed an extortion and murder plot like very like cut and dry. The problem though, was that while the evidence collected at Taylor and Justin's home, including significant blood evidence by the way, matched their statements, detectives still didn't have the physical evidence inconclusively linking the three suspects to the victims. Fortunately, that all changed when detectives in Marin County received a call from a woman named Deborah McClanahan.

As it turned out, McClanahan had exactly what investigators were looking for and so much more. Tell me everything. Like Dawn, Deborah met Justin and Taylor several years earlier when they were all attending the LDS church in Danville. Although she had been raised in the Mormon church, Deborah considered herself to be more of like a free spirit and associated as much more of like,

she decided like being a wiccan and like the new age movement. Hell yeah. She was more into that than she was the church. Retweet. Not long after meeting, Deborah began a brief affair with Taylor, which soon came to involve Don and Justin from time to time. When she heard about the murders and you know, read that investigators were asking for the public's help in finding more information, Deborah came forward with what proved to be key pieces that brought the case to focus. According to Deborah, about a week earlier, Taylor and Justin had visited her apartment and asked if she could store a small safe there for a few weeks.

No. Always no. No, period. Knowing that Taylor occasionally dealt drugs, she assumed he was keeping his product inside and didn't want it to be found. You know what they say about assumptions. Yeah. In light of the murder charges, however, she thought it would be best to hand the safe over to a thorough authorities, which is very smart.

She later said, I didn't feel good about having that safe in my house. It took some time, but eventually detectives were able to get it open. And inside, they found the Steinman's photo identification and financial records and the nine millimeter handgun used to kill Jennifer and Jim Gamble. Stop it. Can you imagine realizing that you had all of that in your possession? You had a murder weapon in your possession and had no idea. That's why you don't help people.

No, don't help people. That is the perfect example of why you don't help people. No, don't help people. That is the perfect example of why you don't help people. The evidence was exactly what the investigators needed to secure an easy conviction and hope they might even be able to get the accused to accept a plea deal. But it turned out that Deborah had a lot more to say about Taylor Helzer than anyone expected. Deborah McClanahan confirmed that the Steinmans had probably been killed for their money, but the money was just a means to a much more elaborate and bizarre end. Although Taylor, Justin, and Dawn didn't trust Deborah enough to tell her all of their plans, they did impart some details on her. Oh.

According to Deborah, the group, who referred to themselves in their movements as the Children of Thunder, Stop it. believed that Taylor was a prophet who communicated directly with God. God's never going to tell you to murder people. No, he's not. I mean, at least in my opinion, he's not. Feel like I feel like that's not your God being an awesome God. That would know exactly. You know, that's like and like your God supposed to be an awesome guy. The actual there's a whole song. Yeah. And there's there's that's the opposite.

The only reason I know that's a song is because I listen to SUP, Sex Unique podcast, and they put a bonus episode out the other day that's, our pod is an awesome pod. Our pod is an awesome pod. I love it. But yeah. No, that's not, no, your God is not going to tell you to kill people. No. That's just not going to happen.

No. So they believed though that Taylor had been instructed by God to travel back to Brazil where he would convert others to his cause and train an army of Brazilian orphans to become assassins working on the group's behalf. That's some drug-fueled thought. That's also- That's some drug-fueled thought. These things are always so fucking complicated.

Yeah. Nothing in life needs to be this complicated. No. Just go about your business. Also, stop worrying about other people. Stop doing bullshit to other people. What are we doing? Don't train Brazilian children to become brazilian orphans. What the fuck? What the fuck is correct? The ultimate purpose of the children of thunder was for Taylor to lead them in overthrowing the Mormon church and what they referred to as the days of thunder or the second coming of Christ.

Guys, the Mormon church is fucking huge. It's everywhere. You're not overthrowing the church. It's omnipotent. All you have to do, here's a great way to not deal with the Mormon church. Don't deal with the Mormon church. You can't just leave.

That's the end of it. I know it's hard to leave the Mormon church. I just leave. That's the end of it. I know it's hard to leave the Mormon church. I'm not making light of that. But it's much harder to come up with an entire murder plot and go to prison for murder charges. And again, we're not saying it's easy to get out of any religion. No, never. I myself have not been in a religion that I had to tear myself out of or deal with the consequences of that.

So just know that right now. Yeah. There's no reason to say it because we know it. I'm not nobody's saying that. No, no, no. It's awful. I can't imagine. Yeah.

But if you're coming up with, is it harder to do that or to travel to Brazil and train an army of Brazilian orphans to overthrow a church? Yeah, I would say the latter. Or is it on the same level? I don't know, but either way, it's hard, I would say the latter. Or is it on the same level? I don't know, but either way, it's hard. I would say the latter, no pun intended. No pun intended. And that's, it's no matter what, this is very over complicated.

And it's, and this is very not okay. It's also just very like this guy was like staying up all night, doing drugs, doing ecstasy, like doing crazy shit. I'm like, this is not good thinking. This is not like solid thinking. This is not clear thinking. This is not any of that. And it's like, it's so scary, this kind of stuff.

It is scary. Where do you get to that point? It's also just, I can't imagine like my parents being killed for that purpose and finding that out after they lived their whole lives and were just enjoying retirement. Poor Selena just thinks she meets this nice guy and wants to help him. Of this guy to use his former job as like a financial advisor to do this because I'm like, first of all, you're a piece of shit. And two, you're so fucking easily traceable.

Of course they're going to connect it back to you. You got to be fucking dumb. That's why it's so obvious that it's not clear thinking. Like, you thought he was this mastermind? I'm like, no, you're a fucking idiot. They can easily trace that back to you. You had access to that. Thankfully you're dumb.

Right away, someone's going to trace it back to you. Wow. It's ridiculous. I was wondering where the Children of Thunder came into this. Yeah, here it is. Wow. So the group functioned basically like, you know, your run of the mill cult. The Children of Thunder was like, you know, most cults that you hear about in the sense

that it's built around one single, very charismatic, very bullshitty leader. Yes, always. In their case, Taylor developed a list of beliefs that they were all supposed to adhere to and again, very cult-like behavior, which he referred to as the 12 principles of magic. Okay. I'm not sure where magic comes into this whole thing, but here we are. I can paraphrase them here and Dave helped me very much paraphrasing these because wow. One, he, meaning God, is already perfect so he could do no wrong. Okay. Two, there

was no such thing as right or wrong. No wrong, incorrect. We're contradicting ourselves already. Three, he was all powerful and the creator of everything in his life. So then he created the Mormon church and you don't have to overthrow it. Yeah. Four, life was always right. I thought there was no concept of right or wrong, but okay. Life was always right and they should embrace all the results of it. This whole thing is contradictory. All the results of life they created for themselves. But I thought God created it.

Six, we believe nothing and perceive the world without fear. Then why are you making rules if you don't believe anything? Seven, our perceptions are always right. Okay. I thought there was no concept of right and wrong. Eight, unconditional fearless love was the most profound in the universe. Overthrowing a church doesn't sound like unconditional love. No, and killing people doesn't really make me think you're a loving person.

Nine, spirit knew everything. Ten, one gives total control by losing control. Oh, that's just cults. Eleven, what goes around comes around. I believe that, karma. I'm also like, so you're going to kill three people? Oh, excuse me. That's coming around, my friend.

Twelve, there was a higher person than Taylor, Jesus Christ, the son of the father. Isn't that just the Bible? Pretty sure. I don't know. I don't know. So there's that. Those are wild ass principles that literally contradict themselves from the second they start. From the second, right from the jump.

Like hello. It's like starting line just boop, correct or wrong. I'm right. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. According to Deborah McClanahan, in the weeks before the murders, Taylor and Justin had tried to find the money to fund their movement from family members and associates and had

wildly been unsuccessful. When they failed at that, Taylor began devising a new plan where he would just extort the money from his former Morgan Stanley clients, Ivan and Annette Steinman. And from there, the scheme continued to spiral out of control until it came to include killing Selena Bishop, Jennifer Blaren, and Jim Gamble. All to fund the Children of Thunder and their belief that they could somehow bring the second coming and overthrow the Mormon Church. Now that they had the full story, investigators took everything to the district attorney who

started drafting up plea agreements. And the district attorney said, what the fuck is all this? He said, what have you brought me? But before they could put any deal on the table, Don and Justin decided to stop cooperating with the investigation. Okay, cool. So then you don't get a deal. In terms of Don Godman, detectives decided she had been too heavily manipulated by Taylor

and would require psychological deprogramming before her testimony could be of any value. Oh, wow. This runs deep. Taylor and Justin, on the other hand, decided they would rather take their chances with trial. Good luck, boys. Good. With all the delays and motions put forth by Justin and Taylor's lawyers, nearly five

years passed before anyone saw the inside of a courtroom. Five years, that's a long time. We've seen delays, but five years is wild. In that time, the bizarre claims of, because then it started coming, like it took on a life of its own. The terms, like the phrases, wiccans, sex cults,

satanic rituals, all fueled the local tabloids in that five years. Like just went nuts. Who's gonna ever get sick of that? Exactly, at the same time, Dawn Godman had changed her mind and accepted a plea deal from the district attorney. What'd she get? In exchange for a guilty plea

and agreeing to testify against Taylor and Justin, she would receive a sentence of 38 years in prison. Okay, I'm glad she still gets a lot of time. 25 years for the murders and 13 for the extortion and the additional crimes. In a pre-trial hearing leading up to Justin's trial, Dawn told the story of the murders and their plan to extort the Snideman's in graphic detail. She said, he looked at me and he said, spirit says you get to know, this isn't a dream. And then he cut her throat.

Talking about a net. Dawn said, that's what Dawn told investigators. She also confirmed that the extortion and murders were all part of Taylor's plan to raise $1 million to form a self-help group called Transform America. The goal of which was to quote, hasten Christ's return to earth. No, thank you. We just want to, we want to speed them up. No, thank you. Now,

maybe sensing which way the winds were blowing just before the trial was about to begin, Taylor Helzer changed his plea from not guilty to guilty on all counts. Probably smart. Yeah, and he was gonna be sentenced to death. Justin, on the other hand, maintained a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, and the case went to trial in the spring of 2004. Over the course of the six weeks, the prosecution called more than 100 witnesses

and presented a mountain of evidence linking Justin Helzer to the murders of all five people. Not as a passive member of the group, but as a very active participant in their deaths as well. In his opening statement to the jury, Deputy District Attorney Hal Jewett presented what he called a tale of religious fanaticism replete with declarations of war on Satan and dreams of a utopian paradise. Imagine that being part of the opening statement.

I would be locked. I would be sat. Like, let's go. And that's what he presented as their motive. But in the end, Jewett argued it was Taylor's quest for money and power over others that had really led to their deaths. And he couldn't have achieved that without Justin's help.

On June 15, 2004, the jury deliberated. After just two days, they returned five guilty verdicts for each charge of first degree murder faced by Justin. Also, each charge included special circumstances on multiple counts of murder, kidnapping, robbery, burglary, and extortion. The jury also determined that Justin was sane when he committed the murders and he received the death penalty as well. So him and his brother. On the charge of possessing methamphetamine with intent to sell, he was found not guilty.

Okay. So there's that for him. Justin and Taylor were sent to San Quentin to serve their sentences where in 2010, Justin attempted to end his life by stabbing two ballpoint pens into his eyes. He thought that was going to end his life? Yeah. Like that's just going to really fucking fuck up your eyes.

It was unsuccessful. Oh, did result in blindness in both eyes and brain trauma though. Oh, so I guess, you know, I guess that 110 it was true. What goes around comes around, I suppose. Giving edipis. Now in 2013, Justin Helzer made a second attempt to end his life by hanging and that time he was successful. In a statement to the press, Justin's former defense lawyer, Daniel Cook, told the reporter

he was quote, sorry, but not surprised to learn that Justin's profound and apparently progressive mental illness had manifested itself one last time. Yeah. Now in 2024, Taylor's case came up for automatic review by the Supreme Court of the state of California, in which he argued that he should have been allowed to withdraw his guilty plea and should receive a trial based on his claim that officers had violated his Fourth Amendment rights when they seized items from his home, and if they hadn't had that evidence, he wouldn't have pleaded guilty. After considering his argument, the justices wrote, quote, we reject defendant's claims

and conclude blanket suppression of the evidence is not warranted. The court further concluded that probable cause existed, the warrant was not a general warrant and the search did not exceed the scope of the warrant. Fantastic. Ultimately, the court upheld the lower court's ruling and the death sentence imposed by the jury. Well, there you have it. And that is it.

He's still on death row. Yep. He's on death row. His brother is dead. Yeah. And Dawn is still serving out her sentence. All I can think about is ballpoint pens in my eyes. Yeah.

That's a lot. That's gnarly. So that is Glenn Taylor-Helzer and the Children of Thunder. That's a wild story that I had never heard even a single detail about previously. Wild. Yeah. I actually didn't know about this either. That's crazy.

Yeah. And really sad. I feel so, so sorry. Completely innocent people. That's the thing. Like completely innocent. It had nothing to do with any of this. Innocent people and like people who are so tenuously connected to this guy. This fucking crazy motherfucker. He just, he used, which like, thank goodness there was a connection with like the Morgan Stanley stuff. Like this idiot was a financial advisor and then decided to go after his clients. Like, hello. Boom. Connection right there. Yeah, that's wild.

Thank goodness he was dumb as fuck for that. And he was seen too. Yeah, he was seen. Shout out to neighbors doing neighborly shit. Right? That's why you want a good neighborhood. Not a good Samaritans though, who like did their part here. Vicki coming forward. Debra at the end being like, whoa, what the fuck was this? Yeah, that's great. Deborah. Deborah. Yeah. Being like, whoa, what the fuck was this?

Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. That's a crazy tale. And Selena being totally duped by this guy. I know. That's really heartbreaking. Yeah.

It's awful. Oh. And Jennifer had to die because she cared about her daughter and who she was seeing. Right. Like that's, and Jim just, James just being there. He was just there. Yeah. Like all of it is so fucking avoidant like What an asshole this fucking he's awful the hells are and done like fuck all of them

Yeah, sometimes I do believe in the death penalty. Oh, and this is one of those instances. Yeah, he's the worst Wow Yeah, we hope you keep listening though, and we hope you keep it weird But I'm as weird as this man's because what the fuck? Yeah, really? We hope you keep listening though, and we hope you keep it weird. But I'm as weird as this man's. Because what the fuck? Yeah, truly. Dang. Dang. So So So If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus

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