Morbid - Episode 697: Possessed by Paperbacks: A Chat with Grady Hendrix

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

Ash and Alaina are joined by one of their favorite authors, Grady Hendrix! The moment we covered MY BEST FRIEND'S EXORCISM on Episode 598, we KNEW we needed to chat with him on the mic! We talk cursed keyboards, horrific group chats, and if we have what it takes to be a final girl!Looking to purchase his latest nonfiction work? Buy THESE FISTS BREAK BRICKS now by visiting https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/grady-hendrix/these-fists-break-bricks-revised-and-expanded-edition/9780762489480/ Want to listen to his podcast SUPER SCARY HAUNTED HOME SCHOOL? listen here! https://www.buzzsprout.com/1080659Visit www.GradyHendrix.com for upcoming events as well as one of the funniest "about pages" we have ever seen! Stay in the know - wondery.fm/morbid-wondery.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey weirdos, it's Ash here, ready to share a little secret. Have you heard of Wondery Plus? With ad-free episodes in one week early access, it's like having an all-access pass to our lighthearted nightmare. So come join us on the dark side and try Wondery Plus today. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondry app or an Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. If you're shopping while working, eating, or even listening to this podcast, then you know, and love the thrill of the hunt. But are you getting the thrill of the best deals? Racketon shoppers do. They get the brands they love with the most savings and cashback, baby, and you can get it too. Start getting cash back at your favorite stores like Uniclo, Best Buy, and Expedia. And even stack sales on top of cashback. It's easy to use, and you get your cash back through PayPal or check. The idea is simple. Stores pay Racketon for sending them shoppers, and Rackaton shares the money with you as cashback.

Download the free Racketon app and never miss a deal, or go to racketon.ca to start getting the most bang for your buck. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N rackaten.ca. Morbid is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. Who doesn't want to stand out and succeed? Get you a girl who can do both. Every dream needs a domain. Squarespace domains make it easy to find the best name for your business,

at one fair, all-inclusive price. No hidden fees or add-ons required. Every Squarespace domain comes with advanced privacy and security tools included to ensure that your domain remains online and protected. Plus, Squarespace provides everything you need to bring more of your dream to life, whether that means building a website or adding a professional email service. Squarespace gives you everything that you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. From consultations, events, and experiences, showcase your offerings with a customizable website,

designed to attract clients and grow your business. Plus, streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. Head to Squarespace.com slash morbid for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, use offer code morbid to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. I'm Elena. And I'm Grady. And this right here is Morbid. And this is a very special episode of Morbid. We have Brady Hendricks on the show. That's me. Thank you for coming.

This is amazing. Oh, yeah. No, I'm always happy to talk. I'm, you know, talking is my preferred mode of existence. And I'm not talking. I'm not sure I exist. You're really good at talking. Yeah, you're a great talker.

Thank you. Well, I'm in the middle of trying to finish a book right now. So all I do is sit in silence and hate. hate myself, so it's nice to talk and not think about my shortcomings. Do you find that relatable, Elena? I was going to say that is like the best way to describe writing a book, sitting in silence and hating yourself. Yeah. I find I do that often. I do that when I'm not writing a book, so yeah. Hey, there you go. We can all do it. It's fun anytime. Yeah, it is. Anybody can do it. But like Ash just said, I mean, Grady is a bestselling author, journalist, screenwriter, podcaster,

absolutely iconic public speaker. Thank you. You really are because we went to, you're incredible at it, because we went to your event at Unlakely Story for Witchcraft for Wayward Girls. Oh, yeah. Yeah, me, Mikey, and Ash went. It was so fun. That event was such a blast.

It's such a unique book event. If anybody has not gone to Grady's events, I strongly encourage you to because it's unlike any other book event, I think you're ever going. going to be at? 100%. Well, you know, I just figure if people actually leave the house for a book event, there should be, you know, they should be fun. And they should be assured that indeed, I'm the stupidest person in the room, not them. And they can just relax. That's what it's all about, because it's so true. I was thinking the same thing. I was like, people are leaving their house and they definitely get something at leaving their house for your events. Well, I mean, there's

so much you can do it. I mean, there's Netflix. There's the fridge. There's the fridge. There's There's sex. Like, there's so much more in the house. How do you, like, leaving it has to be at least marginally worthwhile. Yeah, you really got to dangle a carrot. Yeah. If you're going to get me out of my house. But also, your event was so, like, it struck me by how well researched that entire dissertation was.

It was incredible. I feel like I learned so much during that. Well, no, I appreciate it. You know, it's funny. When I'm writing a book, I do research, but most of my research is. really nuts and bolts and logistical. Like, oh, you know, what was on TV in 1970 in this part of Florida on Thursday night? And then I do all the fun research, like, which is, like, let's go down every rapid hole at the end when the book's done when I'm putting the show together.

And that's really kind of a reward to myself because I'm a research nerd. Yeah. But that's really fun to be able to just go, like, I don't have an end point in sight, right? I'm just like, I don't need, like, what's a cool spell or something spelled like or how can I go? You know, it's just like, okay, sure. You know, let's just run down this rabbit hole as far as it'll go. That's what it feels like. It feels like just being able to just like sprint down whatever rabbit hole you want to sprint down. Because it's true.

When you're researching just like the logistics, there has to be an end or you're, because that happens to me sometimes like with research with writing, I'll start like going down a tangent. Then I'm like, no, no, no, stop. You have to come back here. because then I'm like three hours in and I've written like four words. Yeah. Well, it's also, you know, the thing that's also really fun about The Witch Show is I'm sort of a history nerd and I can't remember who said this, but someone once said, you know, people, like kids, kids now, they think they invented sex. And so when they read something that's sort of like, you know, like kind of horny from like the 19th century, they're all like, heaven's to Betsy.

And to me, being able to go back to people in the 19th century or early 20th century and make them seem present and vital and not dumb-dums, like the whole part about Sylvia Towns and Warner and writing Lolly Willows. And this sort of boom in the 20s of women really embracing Satanism and witchcraft as these sort of like avenues for liberation. Like, I'm not even sure you'd find that in the 80s, you know, or the 90s, really. No, definitely not, yeah, with satanic panic and all that. Oh, yeah. Exactly. So it's really fun to sort of go back and like, I don't know, make these people who can often get written off as being fuddy, dusty, old people, like a lot, you know, and vital. Because you always see like, you know, obviously there's no like pictures of people from really long ago. So you always see these like paintings or imagery of people and they always look like very serious. Yeah, super stuffy. Yeah. And it's like when you start thinking of them doing like every day. human things and having like human urges and it like it's such a different perspective and i think you did a really good job like giving that to the audience thanks you're welcome yeah there's a there's a quote alan more gave uh the guy who writes comic books uh when he did this victorian jack the ripper thing called from health where he was giving the interview and he said you know if you could actually

teleport yourself back to 1888 you would look around and it would look like science fiction to you You wouldn't be able to speak the language. You wouldn't understand the measurements. You wouldn't know what people were saying to you. You would be in a completely alien planet. And, you know, it's like one of those things where I'm always thinking, you know, if you go back to the 18th, I mean, I would say 19th, maybe even later, everyone was drunk, just pretty much all the time.

Like, you know, the amount of booze they were packing away on a daily basis. Like, they were just always making the worst decision. Yeah, they were really going for it back then. Yeah. They were just, like, living through the worst decisions as well. So they're probably, like, we might as well just be, like, lit through all of this. It was a coping mechanism, really. Like, everything's smelly and dirty.

We might as well just not remember this. I mean, as well, just, like, yeah, just, like, put a happy face on this. Yeah. Let's go. It's, you answered one of my questions, because I was going to ask if you had to do, like, a whole separate version of research for the events that you do for writing. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's what I figured it was.

But, yeah, that's interesting me here. And we loved it. We raved about it afterwards. But moving into another one of your amazing works that we're obsessed with, we loved my best friend's exorcism. I think so many people love that book. And you are one of my favorite authors of all time. Very nice of you. And we love all your books.

But our listeners loved when we did My Best Friends Exorcism for, we did like an audio book club episode. covered it. And people loved it. They just went nuts about it. They loved how you were able to tell the story from like a female perspective and really get into the time frame. You're a really gifted storyteller, obviously. And we just want to know like where did this all start? Like where did your storytelling begin? Were you like a horror guy forever? Where did this all start? No, I mean, horror wasn't really my thing. As a kid, I found the book covers kind of gross. Like they really put me off. And so, like, I read Clyde Barker and Stephen King, like, anyone would. Those Alfred Hitchcock Treasury editions, it used to be at every, like, middle school library.

But for me, horror was movies. And so my friends and I would rent, you know, tapes from the video store, because I grew up in the 80s. I miss video stores. And, you know, watch this stuff together. So it was always, like, a social activity. You know, to me, horror was always, there was always a social competitor like I think a movie's like City of the Living Dead the Fulci film or Doom Asylum or Evil Dead too and those movies are completely

in my mind linked to how I saw them and who I saw them with and I can remember who was sitting where not because I have some great memory but just because those were you know big events for me you know like seeing those movies so they've ever assigned with you know Alan and Aaron and Adam Richards

and Matt Gibson and these things like you know that was huge in terms of writing and telling stories for me I'm from South Carolina and I think most families I mean people say it's southern families but I don't know maybe it's every family no I take that back actually because my wife's Canadian

and I'll tell stories about my family and they will say oh my goodness your family's so crazy we don't have any stories like this in our family and I'm like the more you know I've been married for 30 something years I'm like yes I don't don't say this, but I'm like, yes, you do. You definitely have these stories. You just don't tell them. Yeah, you don't realize some of them. Yeah. And my family, it's funny, my parents got divorced when I was about 13, and I've got three older sisters. And we were very much posing in the

matching outfits, kind of family. And then when my parents got divorced, it was this idea of, well, we're not perfect anymore. And there's no way to make it look like we're perfect. And this was the 80s, when early 80s, this was 80s. four or five when you knew people who were divorced but everyone wasn't divorced quite yet now it's like everyone's yes so for us for my sisters and I we never talked about it but it was this sort of liberation which was we'll say anything now like there is literally nothing you can no story you can't tell because the alternative is really horrible we did that that wasn't so great um and even though it i think it really frustrated my mom her i think she was

okay with it to some extent. And her way of dealing with it was just to pretend those things hadn't happened. Oh, I don't remember that. That's a mom's favorite line. Yeah, that's the classic mom response. I don't remember it like that. Exactly. And so for me, when I started writing, I realized that the way to make it not sound stiff and boring was to tell it like I was telling it to another person. Right. And like, and I know people say that, but I've heard that. writing advice and workshops and classes and stuff. And I guess I hit at a point where I digested it enough and was like, I need to be writing the way I would speak.

You know, and when you talk and tell a story, unless you're an idiot, you generally have a pretty good idea of what to lead out. You know what I mean? And so it was just, that was really the breakthrough for me is realizing that. And then with my best friend's exorcism,

the real breakthrough was realizing that, I needed to go back and actually remember what high school in 1988 was like rather than what John Hughes told me high school in 1988 was like. And I wrote a whole draft of the book. It was just, according to my wife, a hot garbage. Because it was just knockoffs. It was just a bad. That's amazing. That's not so Canadian. Yeah. It was, she's been in the States. We've lost her. She's picked up some stuff. Yeah. And so I was just magpun. tying together tropes and things.

And so to go back and really remember what it was like and things like, and really sort of buckle down and do that work. And then to also, you know, put some blood on the page, that was the first time I realized that the more I put in stuff that I found embarrassing and difficult, the more readers responded to it. I mean, Abby has horrible acne in that because I have horrible acne in high school. like really bad borderline disfiguring at me where you just sort of look in the mirror and just be like I can't I can't do it I can't leave the house like this I look like a monster um you know the three way

calling thing yeah I got burned in a three way calling thing so bad by this girl I had a crush on like yeah it's so it's awful um doesn't exist anymore really but like it was bad kids don't know nowadays they don't know the trauma of a three way calling attack All they have is a group chat. Yeah. Oh, and I'm sure that's just as traumatic. You know, when you realize someone's in the group chat and you thought they weren't. Ooh, that'll change.

It's the same kind of feeling. Oh, no. Did you really? I was actually at a party and I texted what I thought was my wife telling her how boring the party was and how pretentious I thought everyone was. And I didn't realize that the two hosts, on that group chat. And then I like found them and I was like, oh, just

fucking with that. Just being silly. A little late. Just being a big jokester. You know me. They're like, you will not be invited back. And they have that unsent. No, they laughed it off. They were pretty drunk at that. Oh, there you go. That fixes everything. There you go. Yeah.

That's horrifying. Yeah, it was bad. That haunted me for a lot. That really is the greatest part of being married, though, is being able to shit talk. to your spouse the second you, the second you leave somewhere or while you're there, be a text. Absolutely. That's one of my favorite things about being married.

Yeah. But here's my question is, I'm always worried we can be heard. Like, I'm paranoid that, like, we're too close to the scene of the crime, like, we need to wait longer, or someone from the party or the dinners on the subway with us, or what if I accidentally butt dialed the person? And even though we're all the way back at our house, my phone is listening. me. No, I've done that before. She's done that in a horrible way. I'm not going to go into details because the person might be listening, but I've done that before and it was really, really bad. So now I'm constantly in fear of a butt dial to that exact person that I'm talking about. Yep. When it happens to you, it changes you. Yeah. I didn't even know it was a real thing. It's a real thing. Like, and now that you've said that, I return to my cave of shame and we'll live a cautious life. I have to. I love everyone and have nothing to. No. say about any of them.

Everyone is just so beautiful, right? If you hear anything to the contrary, it's a lot. It's fake. It's fake. And I'm like, how do I apply these to my life? But I get too overwhelmed, and then I don't apply them to my life. These days it feels like there's advice for everything, cold plunges, gratitude journals, screen detoxes, but how do you know what works best for you specifically?

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plan and get your first month free. That's simplysafe.com slash morbid. There's no safe like SimplySafe. I used to, I still am very, when I was young, I saw this captain. They showed my, my Cub Scouts, this like Captain America, you know, how to save energy. You know, conservation is your friend. Full film strip. And it was like, always close the refrigerator door and, like, you know, don't leave the oven on. And so I have, I was very OCD as a kid, but I've sometimes, like, gone back blocks to make sure the oven is off or the stove is off or the refrigerator door is closed. And I was always like, this is so dumb. I just need to break myself in this habit.

And one day, my wife left the stove on. See? And I had gotten up in the middle of the night and I was like, I'm just going to check on the stove. I was like, I'm like, oh, God. This is why I do this. I think we might all be dead right now.

Well, and that's the thing. My takeaway wasn't, oh, it was on for hours and it wasn't a big deal. My takeaway was, it was on for hours. My worst nightmares come true. The walls are listening,

you know, an earthquake is going to happen. Quick sand is real. Bigfoot is in the trees. I need to live in fear. Sometimes you do. I do the same thing with lock doors, though.

Oh, locking the doors at night. I'm a psychopath about it. And my husband loves to do this thing where I'll be like, did you lock the back door? And he's like, I think so. And I'm like, that's not an answer. So then I just have to. I'm like, of course, and it's always locked every time. But I'm like, don't say I think so.

Yeah, you can't say I think so. Why do people feel like playing on your nerves is funny? It's not fine. I don't know. Some people really do. I want to be safe. Yeah. I'm like, we've been married for 13 years.

You should know now that that's not a good game to play, especially with locked doors. Yeah, you're going to get up and go chat. Yeah. Yeah. Well, going back to your writing, and you just touched on it a little bit, having three sisters. Between Abby and my best friend's exorcism to Lynette and Final Girl support group, I feel like every time I read a new one of your titles, I'm always so impressed with how well you write women. How do you feel like you're able to create these vivid, real women characters? Well, okay. So this is, this is, A, thank you. I really appreciate that. No, honestly, I do.

B, I think it's so weird that that's not normal. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. That's worth comment because I'm like, isn't this the job as a writer? Like, you write people who aren't you. And like, I get it. Like, I could not convincingly write something from a black perspective because I just don't know that perspective of the world. I can make some guesses.

I can definitely have characters of color. But I would never want to write a book completely from a black or a Latino character's point of view because I don't know how that kind of family. I don't know the family. I don't have family dynamics. You know what I mean? I just would not be comfortable doing that. But with a woman, like, I grew up in the same house of my sisters. Like, you know what I mean?

I'm like, they're not living on another planet. They are another person that's, yes, things are different. But I can extrapolate those things. I can write a robot. Why can't I write a vampire? And so I always find that so weird. And I'm always like, well, geez, that sucks. It's not always so well done.

I know. Well, I know and thank you. But, I mean, that's literally the job. So it really is using, I mean, this sounds so lame, but like using your imagination. And also, like, you know, I do have three older sisters. I mean, I was largely raised by my mom. I've been married for 30-something years. So I really, you know, with my wife especially, like we got married when she was 19 and I was 20.

So we've really grown up together. if I don't know what almost every stage of her life is like, I haven't been paying attention. Like, do you know what I mean? Very true. It's there. Like, I'm sure there are things she keeps private. But, you know, it's just a matter of like thinking it through.

Like, you know, I mean, to me, I'm kind of like, well, yeah, I love parking far away from a venue if I'm going to see a show or something because I don't want to have to fight for a parking space and I don't mind the walk. but I'm a knucklehead if I don't think it through and realize that for a woman walking alone across a dark parking lot, you know, at one in the morning is a very different experience. I mean, it's not scary for me, but my fear is of werewolves. Their fear is probably something a lot more, a lot more scientifically valid. So there's that kind of stuff where I guess that would be an easy trap to walk into,

but really it's just thinking it through and not being a knucklehead, you know? See, men, we're not as complicated as you think. It's true. just don't want to make women I don't want to make women seem simple but it it's I don't know I just I don't mean to huff and puff on this one

yeah I don't I just try real hard I mean I'm writing a book the book I'm writing right now is interesting because it doesn't have a single female character in it oh wow and yeah it's weird it's kind of happened accidentally and I'm like wow this is going really quickly you don't have to ponder anything

you're just like boom well it's also less about the pondering, I realized, thank God, because I was like, maybe I've been like really holding myself back all these years. But what I realize is that the last book, Witchcraft, I mean, it was set in 1970. It's a lot of research. It was also set in a home for Unwed Mothers. It was just a dark, dark book. I really like that book. I'm very proud of that book. But it was like, it's a book I'm so proud of and I'm so glad I wrote. But it's like now I'm writing a book like, which is much lighter. And I'm like, I think that's why it's going. I'm just like, I'm so relieved not to be writing a book where everyone is not at their worst moment of their life every minute of the book. There you go. It's like a little palette cleansing. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Perfect. I love it. I felt like witchcraft for Wayward Girls is like reading it felt like you were like under one of those blankets that has like the hood. I have like that cozy feeling too. I don't know why. It

It's like cozy scary. I'm so excited to read that one. No, I'm really glad. I mean, that was a book that I really consciously went long on. I just was like, I want this to be one of those books that you feel like you can pull around yourself like a blanket. It's just sort of a big book you can get lost in for, you know, someone's like, oh, I read it in three days. I'm like, God, yeah, I got to write. You're like, no. Yeah, like, I appreciate it. I take it as a compliment, but I'm always like, but it took me two years to write it. I know. Like, but yeah, no, it's a book I wanted to feel big and sort of comforting and all-encompassing.

That's exactly the word for it. It literally feels like it's its own like atmosphere a little bit. Like you feel like you're in a room. Like it created a room around me that's cozy. I just really liked. It was a fun experience to read it for sure. I really appreciate it. I just finished actually yesterday, just by coincidence, Southern Book Club's Guide to Sling Vampires.

So good. I love that book so much And I took some time to read it I didn't devour it all at once No I mean it's always a compliment Someone says that I'm like oh that's the point right I want you excited to finish it But yeah it is like there isn't a really

I mean you all know this There's such a disproportionate ratio to the time it takes to write a book Versus the time it takes to read a book You know So it's like I wish I could get that a little more in battle I know it's true Well we have we have some like Kind of interesting questions that

that'll be coming up for you. We're going to go into a game of Would You Rather? But first, I have one question that kind of ties into your Final Girls support group book. Oh, yeah, yeah. So if you had to be in one of your Final Girls' horror franchises, which one would you actually survive and how? Which one would I survive? Yeah, which one do you think you could get through? I mean, none.

I am very comfortable knowing that I'm one of the first ones. Self-aware. Like, yeah, almost, I can't think of a single franchise I'd survive. Like, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Oh, dead on impact. No. Yeah, dead on Friday the 13th, done. You know, I'm trying to think.

What do we have? We have Halloween. I feel good about Halloween because he walks and I'm not Lori. That's what you said. I would just be like, Lori's over there. Yeah. Yeah. I just saw her go that way. I just saw your sister. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I really, I mean, nightmare on Elm Street, as soon as you go to sleep, you're screwed. I love sleeping. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, I've really, it's taken me a long time, but I've accepted the fact that I am a early death. And all I can hope for, it's a really good one that people remember. There you go. That's all you can hope for, I think.

Oh, no. What do you think you survive? Yeah, you want to be Johnny Depp in, like, Nightmare on Elm Street, or, like, Heaven Bacon in, like, you know, Friday. Like, you want to be a memorable one. You have to cover the Roman blood. Yeah, you do. Yeah. Like, you have to be Tatum hanging out of the garage door. Oh, that's exactly who I would be.

Tag yourself, I'm her. I think I could serve, I don't know, I could potentially survive Halloween just because, again, he walks. I'm pretty good at hiding. Yeah. And I'm not Laurie Strode. There you go. So I feel like boom, boom. But this is how Michael gets you.

You underestimate him. That is very true. That's valid. He's also unkillable. I was going to say he also doesn't die. Yeah, that is a tough one to get. But it is true. I mean, you do always feel like pick a point, run in a straight line.

Just go. And when you get to that point, pick another point, straight line, just go. How can you go wrong? And yet, you know, and yet. He'll be there. Yeah. No matter what. That's very true.

I know. Jason Voorhees, too. Yeah, I don't think you could escape that one. And he's real big. He's so big. Yeah. I don't love that. The mask would, I just, I don't have fright or flight.

You're freeze. I just freeze in the moment if I'm scared of something. Can be screwed. She does freeze. I don't really just go. She just gets paralyzed in the moment. Yeah. And there's also one of those things where I used to when I was younger be like, I wouldn't

want to be impaled on a farm implement or like, like, those deaths looked painful and I was like I'd rather just kill myself and now I've come around I'm like no where there's life there's hope but back in the day I was very much like I don't want to be hung on a hook you know like I don't want that yeah and now I just feel like accept your fate you know and just make it cool yeah yeah it's really all you can do for me I guess yeah all right so let's let's get into our would you rather's because they are pretty ridiculous so we're starting off strong here oh good would you rather would you rather have to co-author your next book with a sentient, cursed book titled sexy spells for sassy

sorcerers, or with an eldritch horror who insists on writing everything in comic sands. Oh, definitely the latter. The comic sands. Yeah, I've done, I mean, because at the end of the day, it's not going to be published in comic sands, you know. Valid, truth. And, and, you know, I've done some co-authoring before, and I'm very good at working with someone. I don't always enjoy it all the way, but I'm very good at navigating that relationship.

And so I feel like in Eldridge horror, it would need me. Like, we're co-authoring. It couldn't just banish me to another dimension of eternal torment right off the bat. That's true. It needs me. And so I actually think we might come to know each other. other and appreciate each other. Appreciate our differences. I kind of loves that. You know, what holidays do you celebrate? Oh, I didn't know today was a special day for Eldridge horrors.

Tell me a little bit about your traditions. And I think it would be interesting, if not being working with a cursed book, like, just a book. It's like, you know, there are books everywhere. Cursed or not. I want the Eldridge horror. All right. I respect it. I feel that. Yeah. Yeah, actually. And like you said, it's not going to be published in comic sands. I didn't even think of that. I know. Yeah. And I'm not that offended by comic sands. Oh, that's where we differ. I mean, like, I don't like it. I wouldn't use it. But like, you know, if you were saying it only works in like Zap, ding that's or something, I'd be like, I mean, that's an annoying step. Yeah, you have to highlight it and then like, put in like aerial. But yeah. That'd be a whole thing. That's a good call. And I like that you would have to like get to know the Eldridge horror. Yeah. I think that's a nice part of it. I mean, I think nothing else would be a fun story. Yeah. And you'd probably get another story out of it. Yeah. You don't have to co-author just from your experience.

Yeah. Although then you could have really hurt text. It's like, I can't do those things in confidence. I never went on the record. Yeah, I didn't want those in a book. I assume this character just took off is based on me. I thought we were friends. Thanks. I thought we like, I thought we actually. liked each other. Thanks a lot. I thought we really connected during that. I didn't realize it was just work for you. I told you about my special holiday. Yeah. No, I love that. Now that I'm thinking about it, my initial feeling was I was a little on the fence about both, but I think I would also go with the Eldridge Horror. I just love the idea of the book being called sexy spells for sassy sorcerers. Oh, yeah. That's fun to say. They, because I'm like, is that book, it's sentient,

so it's got something going on there. And I, and I want to know what it's about. But there's also an aspect where you feel like sometimes if someone, like we all have friends like this, right, who they only see things through a certain lens. Maybe it's a political lens. Maybe it's global warming. It's there, you know, they're being. So this, I feel like the sassy spellbook would just keep returning to sex for sorcerers. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it would just keep bringing the conversation back there. And it's like, one note. Yeah. Yeah. Like everything would feel like a bit. That's true.

That'd be tough. And an Eldridge horror has just an endless... A new adventure every day. Yeah. A wide range of interests. Absolutely. There you go. That was...

I respect that. Yeah. I definitely respect that answer. And I agree with it. I do too. Yeah. So next question. Oh, let's do this.

Would you rather write with a haunted typewriter that types back at you with sassy commentary? Or with a cursed laptop that tries to sabotage your drafts by insert, romance subplots at random places. It's difficult. This is a hard one. And I'll tell you, I mean, I immediately recoil in horror at the typewriter with the sassiness. You know what I mean? Like, Sassy's great in like a 1930s screwball comedy, but in real life, sassy's just kind of

irritating. Oh, absolutely. Like how, what kind of romance? What kind of romantic stuff? Is it like inserting, is it sort of like doing slash to what we're writing? So it's like, you know, it's just suddenly the characters are like embracing and going off. Or is it like actually inserting a completely separate narrative between chapters? That's actually a great idea.

When I initially thought of this, I thought that they were just kind of randomly forcing your characters into like a romance subplot. Right. Like that doesn't make sense. No, no, no, that makes sense. That makes more sense. which would I rather you know what I'm going to go with the type sassy typewriter no I'm going with the laptop I'm going with the laptop

I know I know yeah there's something about a typewriter do you either of y'all write on a typewriter I do not no I don't either and I tried to get one of those typewriter keyboards once that like oh maybe this will be interesting yeah do you ever use it

no yeah exactly every once in a while when I go buy it I'll touch the keys to make the sound, and that's as far as it goes. Exactly. Typewriters, I feel like, are that friend who's really into bourbon, and you just can't order a drink at the bar. Yes. You know, without them telling you all about it.

Like, there's something about it, not typewriter's fault. But whenever someone's like, oh, I only use the same typewriter and I had to warehouse, you know, parts when it got discontinued in 1978, I'm always like, grow up. Grow up. Go to the Apple store. Yeah. What's wrong with a pen? It's true. Parents never want to sacrifice quality for convenience,

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I feel like then you have to write them out of it every time. That'd be tough. Because in my head, it's like, is it stuck in the story now? Like, I can't just erase it. I have to get them out of that. Yeah. And back into line here. That'd be tough.

And I feel like that's a lot more work. It's like double editing. Yeah. Lots of work. And I don't want that. No. Well, all of this is adding a lot more work to the process. Yeah, either way, you're not wrong.

The sassy commentary is definitely adding, because it's going to make me second guess everything I write. Yeah. I feel. It's her final decision. I'm going to go with the typewriter only because I don't want to have to write people out of a romance subplot. All right. I respect it. And it is cursed.

It says a cursed laptop, so I don't know how far that curse goes. All right. I don't want to enter into anything. Yeah, that is wise. The full scope of. I think I'm going sassy commentary on this one. I think I can have fun. I'd send some back.

You're like, let's go. I'm a Gemini. I'm all about Woody Banter. That's true. You know. But don't you worry that like there's a fine line between sassy commentary and personally hurtful? It could be personally hurtful, but I can go scorched earth really quick back at that sassy typewriter.

Yeah. You're a dumb typewriter. Listen to this Go change your ribbons Yeah, exactly You're like, I'll do it All right So the next one

Would you rather Write your next novel In Grace Kavanaugh's home From Southern Book Club's Guide To Sling Vampires Or This is crazy In the creepy attic of a fan

Who calls you Daddy Horror Wow, Grace's house No question No question Yeah, I feel there's a there's a and you all know this as well as anyone there is not just a line but i would say a canyon between making the donuts and eating the donuts yeah and i don't want anyone who enjoys eating the donuts to see the donuts getting made that's so i'd rather be a best way to say that

and grace's house is actually to some small extent uh in my mind based on a house and i actually rather feel rather pleasant so i'm all in for grace yeah all right i like that. I think I'd go Grace too because I agree with your donut analogy and I like that a lot. Yeah, I fully agree. It's very misery to me and that doesn't end well. So that's a no. I'm going with grace. All right, that one was easy. Let's see if this one is as easy. Would you rather only be able to speak an 80 slang for the rest of your life or have to perform an exorcism with nothing but a mixtape and some strawberry lip smackers? Oh, 80 slang. Easy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I want to perform an exorcism.

I think I do if it entails a mixtape and strawberry lip smackers. I was going to say. I mean, that sounds like a fun exorcism as far as they go. It does, you know? And what's on the mixtape? That's the fun part. I know, did we make the mixtape or was it given to us? In my mind, I made it a mixtape. Like a powerful mixtape. For the exorcism in mind. Okay. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, I would go I would go exorcism in that scenario. then. I think I'm going

exorcism. All right, we can do it together. I'm going slang. You're going sling. You can just be in the corner saying things. Like totally tubular, y'all. Exactly. Totally tubular. Exorcism. It'll only help. And I feel like 80 slang is going to made a comeback a little bit, you know? Yeah. Everything does. As soon as you just said gnarly, I was like, wait a second. I use that on like a regular face. I say narly, very regularly. I call things gnarly all the time. No one says you have to sound like Spicoli and fast send a richmond high. Just got to use some.

That's true. Just a dab here and there. All right. That might kind of be fun. No, but the exorcism, I really appreciate you guys looking for a challenge. Yeah. I mean, I've never done an exorcism before, so I feel like presented the opportunity. This is a pretty good one.

Why wouldn't you? You know? Yeah, exactly. You have to accept the challenges in life. You do. All right. So we're exercising in your talking like a John Hughes movie. I'm into it.

So, moving on from exorcisms, would you rather spend one week living in Shirley Jackson's Hill House or one weekend on a girl's trip with the witches from Suspheria? Oh, like, like Helena Marcos and all that? Oh, definitely, definitely girls' trip. 100%. Love that. Yeah, I'm 100% of it. I mean, because it's the creepy cook who doesn't really talk a whole. lot. The little kid dressed up as little Lord Fauntleroy. There's what's her name who runs the

Dance Academy who's great. And it was Helena Marcos just being a boss, you know, like, I'm all in on the girls trip. That would be a blast. When you present it that way, it sounds like a fun. Yeah, kind of does. I kind of love that. Like, I'm not on the girls trip to be tormented. I'm there to have a good time. What do you think the first stop is on that girl's trip? Well, I, so I would think I would think that what we'd be doing is it'd be a little less of a road trip and more sort of a destination, you know? So I'm thinking like a resort maybe, you know, in like somewhere all inclusive in Mexico or something and like you could take day trips to explore stuff and or maybe just chill by the pool and there's like three or four pools to do some beach club, get a cabana. I like that. I think I'm choosing this. I think you've just talked me into my decision.

Like, well, shit. And like everyone, here's the one thing. I think it would be really important that it's a resort where everyone has separate villas. You know what I mean? Like, no connecting rooms because I've heard Helena Marcos snore. And it's really loud.

Like, really. Like, it's really. That would be terrifying. I want to get away from that. And who doesn't want their own villa anyway? Yeah, exactly. Or she could bring her apnea mask, In which case, maybe.

That changed your thing. Maybe you could room. Yeah. But I also think, you know, like, you know, she comes into the pool. Everyone's going to leave. That's true. I mean, she's invisible, but they'll see her outline in it. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. That's freaky. Yeah. And we'd have to have one big rule. Actually, no, this isn't a big rule because this would be fine. It's like if you want to, I was going to say one big rule, no maggot storms. But then if you want to clear the beach, maggot storm. Then quick maggot storm.

Yeah. Yeah. So gross. Oh, I like that. But the seagulls will come and eat them all. Okay. Give it 20 minutes. Yeah.

It'll clear up. It'll take a second. All right. And then you come out and it's nice and picked clean. But no one's going back there. Where are y'all coming in on this? Let me think now. So you made the girls trip sound really fun.

I really did. I was initially a little scared of that one. I was too. You were like a travel advisor for that. Now that I'm thinking, I'm like it is a weekend girl's trip and it's a week in Hill House. A week is a long time. Yeah. What is the guy's name's Jacob Crane or something in Hill House?

Yeah, we don't want to... Yeah, he's like a child abuser and, like, his spirit sort of permeates everything. Could you really have a good time? And for a whole week, I think that would get me alone. That vibe would be... Yeah. Rancid. Yeah, reserve us a spot.

Yeah, we're coming on the girls' trip. Come on. A nice weekend. We'll take a villa together. Yeah, great. I like that. Yeah, I'd actually... I'd do three ways on the villa with you guys and, like, split the charges.

Yeah, let's go. can have other villas. Yeah, I'm in. I like that. Although I do snore, but I use breathe-right strips, so we're good. We're good. That's all right. I'll do it for you guys. Yeah, we'll put it on, we'll put it on the Google calendar. Perfect. All right, we're going on the girl's trip with Susperia. I'm in. So, next, would you rather have to sell your childhood home, which is very haunted and also full of murder puppets? Or live in it for a year while the puppets get to know you.

Well, I mean. I'm going to push I'm going to call the premise of the question in the question because you have if it's your childhood home you have been living in it with the murder puppets

for years. So maybe the murder puppets are a new addition to the house? Oh, they just moved in. Yeah. Oh, I actually wouldn't mind the murder puppets. Like, yeah, I'm

I mean, on the one hand it would be really fun to sell a home with an infestation to someone and think about it and get away with it. But on the other hand, like, I think it would be, I think it might be pleasant to share a home with a bunch of murder puppets. It would be interesting.

Yeah. I mean, it would just kind of be like, what do they get up to when they're not murdering? Like, because there's only me. And if they murder me, they got no more murder. So they're going to have to be luring people into it. So I feel like there'd be a lot of coming and going, which isn't always my favorite thing. I like Quiet House. I like quiet.

But, I mean, think that there is something really adorable about a murder puppy. They're a puppet. They're tiny. They're cute. Tiny little weapons. Tiny little weapons. And think of their gumption. I mean, this is how I feel about Chihuahuas.

Like, they're so brave. Like, everything is so much bigger than them. Yeah, that's true. And, yeah, you could just, like, drop kick them far. But they still, like, go out there. They still put themselves out there. And I feel like movie night. I mean, so to me.

heaven would be movie night you got your like blanket on the couch and you're just snuggled up with a bunch of murder puppets wow I mean that sounds really fun they do want to get to know you yeah I don't want we would be chatting they'd be telling about their lies we tell them about mine they'd pretend to be interested yeah of course they would yeah I like that how would you sleep there though yeah I mean sleep hygiene is tough right I think I would do more of a power nap situation. Like really hitting those 20 minute power naps. Yeah.

But also they're not murdering me in my sleep. You know what I mean? Because that's not fun. Yeah. But there's always the chance they could. There's the chance they could, but jokes on them at that point. Like they've killed me in my sleep so I'm none the wiser. And now they don't have anyone else to murder and no one else paying the bills.

So that house is going to go on the market, you know, who that they might, and someone just might get it for a tear down. Yeah, yeah. And they just become puppets at that point, because they're not murder puppets anymore. Yeah. And I was about to say a workaround might be cutting off my arms and legs

and keeping me in a box or something. Wow. But I would still have to be earning money to keep the house. So it's in their best interest to keep me mostly intact. But maybe they'll make you just like, like, you know, Transcribing. Transcribing. I was like, what is the word I'm trying to think of?

So you don't need your arms or legs to write. Right. Because you can just say, they'll make you say the story out loud. I see what you're saying. Yeah. And they'll just transcribe it for you. I got to say, though, I'm going to take the murder puppets. You're like, I'm still going for it.

Yeah. No, I mean, and, you know, out of all of them, this is the one I'm the least certain about because it could go a lot of directions, but I'm going to stick with the murder puppets. I respect that. It is intriguing. like at night when you want to go to sleep, if you just did like a really quick look around of your room, like have a barren room, you know, like don't have a lot of places where they can scoot under, you could keep them out. They're little. They're not going to be able to like bang a door

down or anything. So you should get some sleep, but they can hide easily. I feel like as a dude, I'm going to double down on my decision, even if it's very poor and cling to my position. You're like doing it. Is that what you're choosing to, Elena? Yeah, I kind of want to see. the murder puppets are all about. I love puppet master. That's hilarious. Oh, yeah. So. And that's the problem with that franchise is the more familiar you get with those puppets, the more kind of the horrible they are. They are. That's the thing. And that's all I'm picturing in my head right now are those puppets. And I'm like, let's go, girls. Let's hang out. I think I'll sell the house to a contestant on that show. There you go. Or you could sell it to

us. Or you could sell the house to you guys. You already want it. We'll buy it. Perfect. As someone who's currently in living in an apartment with termites, so it's basically sold to me with murder puppets, except the less cute version. My opinion of you will be very low if you sell me a house and I discover the walls are crammed with murder puppets. But you'll learn to love them. It's true. Because they'll get to know you. Yeah, exactly.

I will be resentful. I won't actually. The latest installment of the hit Audible Original series, Oracle, is out now. Oracle 3, Murder at the Grand View. Agent Nate Rousseau is back on the case. When a reunion of friends at an abandoned island hotel ends in tragedy, Nate must unravel the truth. Was it an accident or a cold-blooded murder? And what else is lurking at the Grandview Hotel?

Narrated by Joshua Jackson, it is a bone-chilling and thrilling performance. If you love thrillers and dabble in the supernatural, Oracle is for you. It's the perfect time to start the series. You can listen to one, two, and then three on Audible right now without having to wait. Don't let your fears take hold. Listen now on Audible. All right, next question. Would you rather have every writing session interrupted by whispers from a ghost quoting bad goodreads reviews?

or have every writing session interrupted by a witch hat, a sentient witch hat, who keeps tapping on your keyboard and adding the word sleigh to every sentence. Witch hat. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. I don't read reviews online. Me neither.

Neither do me. I never have and I never will. It's sick. Yeah. So I'd rather witch have one hundred percent. And who doesn't want to have sleigh in many sentences? Yeah. You don't take it.

You don't have to keep it there. You can just go delete it if you need. Also, this witch have already sounds adorable. It's like a little hermit crab, a little occult hermit crab. Yes. I was excited about it. I like the witch hat. I like that one a ghost would be cool, but a whispering ghost, I'm not for it all.

And criticizing you. But then whispering reviews that I'm actively avoiding would be it for me. Yeah, go nuts. Yeah. Yeah. All right, that one was easy. Yeah, that was an easy one. Next one.

Would you rather write your next novel while of the, Victorian ghosts dramatically feints every time you use a semicolon, or would you rather write it while being interrupted periodically by the sound of groaning Victorian child ghosts? Oh, the first one. I almost never use semicolons. And so I feel like five or six feigning fits for an entire book, max. Yeah, it's just so bad. It's pretty good. Yeah, and child ghosts. I grew up at a time when, like, your parents were like it's summer go outside and you weren't allowed back in the house all day except for lunch and like if you tried to see me like it's really hot my mom used to put like she'd be like go drink from the hose and so and so that may have colored my attitude but that is my attitude towards child ghost I'm always like go outside

just go play no only boring ghosts are bored yeah yeah go play only boring ghosts are bored yeah and they're just Yeah. Like what you've got to groan about? Like you got your whole life ahead of it. You get your whole afterlife ahead of you. Yeah. You don't even pay taxes yet. That's really beautiful. You don't pay taxes. You're dead. Yeah. Exactly. What do you need to worry about? Yeah. You have no worries. You want to hear you give you something to groan about? Let me say this termite. The classic 80s parenting response. Exactly. I love the idea of a ghost, like a Victorian ghost, just dramatically fainting. When I do a semicolon. Like I would probably put semi-colons in my draft just to be like, where is it?

I think actually that's how every writing session would end. It's semicolon, door flies open, ghost swoons in, and hits the floor. Yeah. Because then you're like, wow, that chapter really sent them. Because you're like the end. Let's go. Send it in. I like that.

Perfect. All right. So we're moving on to a little horror store action here. Okay. Would you rather be trapped overnight in a haunted orsk where all the furniture rearranges itself and whispers in Swedish or get a job there where your manager is a demon wearing khakis and demanding team building exercises overnight yeah 100% yeah that's just one-time thing you know that would just be interesting you'd be interesting I've worked retail

before and I'm bad at it like I don't have the stomach like people who work retail hats are off to them because they are able to do something that I find impossible. It's like algebra. I don't understand it. I can't do it. It's a torturous job. Yeah. It really is. Yeah. Yeah. I think I've worked in a bookstore and I've sold stuff from a stand and I I wasn't good at either of it. No. It's tough. Selling is hard. And people are the meanest to retail people. That's why I'm never mean to retail like anybody working in retail because I'm like, your job is so hard. Yeah. Retail workers or service workers. Yeah. When I'm I was a server back in the day. I cried more than I think I've ever cried in my whole life.

Oh, where were you a server? What kind of place? Just a little Irish pub. Okay. Yeah. But it was a bar, basically. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, that's, bartending is the word. Yeah. It was tough. I couldn't. People say things to you there that you're like, you would never say that in real life. Why are you saying that to me in this Irish bar? Well, so someone, because my wife is a chef, so she's owned a few restaurants. And so serve, yeah, I always, my heart goes out. But I ran into this chick at a film festival. And her, she was back of house at a restaurant, you know, working in the kitchen. And she had moved to front of house.

And she was working the host of Santa. I was like, oh, my God, dude. So I was like, let's talk. So we're chatting. And she was like, well, you know, the big thing with this job is I really do think UFOs are real. and that extraterrestrials live amongst us. She's like, because I think what they do is they tell each other, oh, if you're a little insecure about your human disguise,

go to a restaurant. Like, you can just like, that's where you'll really work on it and get it right. And if you do weird stuff, they don't even notice. And she's like, because I would say at least a third, if not half of our customers, they don't seem very good at being human. Yeah, that's valid. And they're experiencing. She's like, and sometimes I think the request are like messing with me.

Yeah, just like termining. How far can I put you? And I said that to my wife and has now gone around her restaurant. Like, wow, because everyone's like, oh, yeah, well, that's clearly. That's the answer. Yeah. That would make you feel so much better when people are like rude to you or doing weird stuff on Schiff. You'd be like, you're just trying it on. Yeah. I wish I knew that back then. Damn. That could have saved me. People are, yeah, restaurants and especially bars bring out the worst in human beings. Yeah. Yeah. They do. 100%. I was lucky to not to do a whole lot of retail in my job journey, but my favorite job was working at a video store by far.

Oh, yeah. That was a cool job. Because that's like retail, but like not, like everybody was pretty happy at a video store, I feel. What video store was like what kind? It was a Hollywood video. Oh, Hollywood video. Yeah.

And like, where? It was like, it was literally like just south of Boston, like a little suburb. and I loved that job so much. That's a cool job. I miss video stores so much. I wish they were a thing. I didn't get to experience them very much. It's so funny.

I just did a shoot like an interview thing. And they were like, oh, let's do it in a video store because I was introducing some movies for something. And I hadn't been in one in a really, really long time. And I was just walking around. Like I was in the like, you know, like I was in the like, you know, the secret library of Congress. I was like walking around like because I realized that having grown up on video stores, that's how my brain, that's like, that's the optimal way for me to look at movies. It's not this. It's not a streaming interface. It is like here is a wire shelf and on it are all the movies directed by this person or on it or all the documentaries. And then you can pick it up and read the back and look at the big. I was like, this is how my brain was wired to like interface like browse movies. Yes, because I get so overwhelmed with streaming services. Like, there's too much selection.

Like, I need it narrowed into, like, everything that can fit in this one room and this store. And, like, the new releases are on the outside. It wants the perimeter for something new. And you don't know if there's an actual VHS tape behind the cover of it sometimes, because they would always have the covers. Yeah. Had to be, like, I hope there's one in there. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, because, I mean, how many at click, click, like, just...

Shuffling through. I can't. I know. I've had to do this thing where I use letterboxed. And so I've got everything on there and I just hit shuffle. And whatever comes up first is what I watch. Even if I'm off the mood, I'm like, all right, that's what I'm watching. Honestly, this was fate. Yeah. That's the best way to do it because my husband and I will get to the point where we're like 45 minutes through like just going through things on a streaming service. And we're like, forget it. Yeah. Let's just put it on screen. Yeah. Just let's go. Well, and the worst is if you've had a. few drinks because I'm a notorious, like, I've had a few drinks and I'll get 10 minutes into a movie and be like, I'm not in the mood. What else is there? And then like four hours later, I'm much drunker and I've watched 10 minutes of like 40 movies. And you're just stringing them all together. It becomes one giant movie. Exactly. That makes no sense. Well, speaking of, you know, a time we all wish was back. Would you rather... Speaking of your drinking problem. Speaking of your drinking problem. I'm like, it's so weird. It goes right into my neck

question. Would you rather be trapped inside a forgotten 1980s horror paperback with like some pulpy title like Satan's babysitter? Or forced to write the sequel to the haunted janitor in one night while being stalked by a mop? Forced to write on a janitor sequel. I'd rather do something active than passive. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want to be stuck in something. Yeah. And especially not Satan's babysitter. And being stalked by a mop sounds like an interesting experience. Yeah. You tell a lot of stories about that later. Yeah. Yeah. No, totally.

Like, is it also a haunted mop bucket on wheels? Like, there's a lot. Like, yeah, no. And also the, I really admire sort of that sort of old school pulp writing where people just churned it out. I'm like, let me see if I can do that, you know? Hell yeah. And that's your time to show. If I'm not worried about this being good, how fast could I go? Yeah, be a good test. I mean, it's the sequel to the That's the other thing. That's even better. You've already got something to work with. And that's always great. Yeah. And I like, and I, sometimes I like like a crazy deadline where I'm like under crazy pressure. Sometimes it works. Yeah. And I want, if I'm doing this, I want my cursed laptop that puts in romance subplots. Because there's half the book written for me.

Boom. Oh, wow. There you go. Marrying the two together. Oh no. Now I'm sad that I pick the typewriter. who's just giving me sassy commentary because that's going to balk me down too. Then as long as the sassy commentary is in uncapitalized italics, you could just be like it's metafiction. It's not commenting on myself. It's like, I'm a paul-trimed playbook.

I like that. I like that a lot. That's amazing. So I think we're all picking the haunted janitor sequel. I think for sure. In one night. I love it.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for entertaining that. That was so much fun to play. That was awesome. Oh, yeah. No, I thought I was like, where's more? Let's go. We do have some B questions. We have some B squad questions that we had. Oh, give me a B. Give me, give me. Let's do two B squad questions. Oh, awesome. Let's go. All right, which ones are we picking? All right, let's see. Oh, this is fun. Would you rather have to share a haunted office with a poltergeist who throws books when they're bored or one who insists on hosting dramatic table readings every night at 3 a.m.? Dramatic table readings. I am really fussy about my books. Like, I don't like danged corn. and stuff. So, yeah, table reading. And that'd just be fun at 3 a.m. Yeah. That'd be a crazy table read. I really will. And I'm the same way with my books. Like Ash can tell you, like I'm not

allowed to borrow Elena's books. I can't because I when people fold a page or anything, it freaks me out. I know. I'm sorry. Also like, you know, I really want the, I want to know the dynamic of this table read. You know, like, oh, I have to read the stage directions again. I would love that. Why can't I play a part this time. I really like that actually. That'd be a lot of fun. I'm definitely for that because you're not throwing my books. All three of us can be at the table reading.

Okay, bring me one more here. These are great. All right, one more. Would you rather be haunted by a ghost who won't stop changing the endings of your books or one who constantly whispers plot hole, plot hole while you write? That, okay, one, I'm very picky about my endings and they're very hard for me. I'm not good at it. So no, that first one's out.

Second off, that's the inside of my head anyways. Yeah. It's just like echoing on the outside right now. And yeah, I've got a running thing down the side of everything. I'm ready to like, go back and fix. This is stupid. This doesn't make sense. Fix this in all caps. Because I feel like making it all caps. I'll definitely like not ignore it. There you go. I was thinking the same thing. As soon as I was reading it. I was like, well, I don't need the ghost because my own head is being like, that's a plot hole, that's a major plot hole. He'll just keep you accountable. He will, but I'd be

pissed. I'd be so pissed at that. I'd be like, I got it. I know. So are you going ending? Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to, I think I would go with ending because maybe he'll have a good idea every once in a while. All right. And I'll be like, because I am also not great with endings. I get very

overwhelmed by an ending. Yeah. Which is why I just like keep going through a series. You're like, no, it's shut over. I'm like, oh, there's more. But so maybe he could actually end a book for me, and that would be sick. I'd give him credit. All right. Yeah.

Yeah. Actually, that shows a lot of confidence. Yeah. And a lack of ego, you know, like, you're getting past your own ego and sort of being open to all. I think that's really admirable. Thank you. He's kind of like an editor, too.

Yeah. He might have some good ideas. Yeah. Like, who am I? I don't know him. I don't know his life. That's the thing. Yeah, I haven't written a book.

So I don't know about this one. I guess I would go plot hole to keep myself accountable. Nice. You know? Yeah. It's good that you're like, I'd probably be taking shortcuts. Because I have to finish the haunted janitor 2 by sunrise. Yeah, exactly.

Thanks to this ghost. Although I'm going to say, if we combined all of these into one, it's like, you know, there's a copy of the haunted janitor, too, with a romance subplot running through it. The word slay every now and then. A semicolon at the end of every chapter. Yep. And absolutely no plot holes whatsoever. Yeah. I would buy that book. I think we just created a banger. To be honest, I think. We're on that list. T.M. There we go. T. M. No one take it. It's a great one. Well, thank you so much for entertaining all that. What do you have to plug anything? I just had a book come out, a nonfiction thing called These Fist Break Bricks,

which is a history of how kung fu movies came to America, which even if it doesn't seem like your thing, it's sort of paperback from hell, but for like kung fu movies instead of paperback for and that's out now everywhere in a improved edition than the previous one, as in this one's in print, and the previous one wasn't. I'm getting ready for season two of the podcast I do, super scary haunted homeschool. Last season took me four years from 13 episodes, I think, about vampires.

This, we're trying to be more professional. I work with the writers and, well, not writers, but I work with editors and musicians and all this and actors. And I think we're going to have the first episodes out by the end of this year. It's all about haunted houses. And I think it'll be done by the end of next year, but it's starting this year.

That's exciting. I'm excited. And then hopefully this first draft of this new book will be done by September. And that means, hopefully I can convince my editors that it might be able to come up by the end of next year, which would be really nice. Good luck convincing that. Good luck. Yeah, I know, right?

They're like, let's move it to this fall of 2027. And I'm like, why'd I give up my whole summer? I can know. That all sounds amazing. And guys, always, always, always, if Grady is in a town near you, check out his book events. They are so good. I don't know if we can say it enough. Truly recommend it.

And whisper in my ear, plonthole. Yes, while he's signing your book, do that. Yes. So, guys, thank you so much for listening. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. You nailed it. You nailed it.

Thank you so much for this. I got one thing right today. This was so much fun. No, this was a fun episode. It really was. Bye, you guys. Thank you all. 13.

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...to... ...you... ...and... ...and... If you're If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free.

free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. I'm John Robbins, and joining me on How Do You Cope this week is the musician, writer and presenter, Jordan Stevens. I think honestly, before that point, I might have been lying a little bit in therapy. I might not have really been understanding what it was that I could do in there. I definitely didn't think it was a safe space because I didn't tell my therapists what I'd done. So that's How Do You Cope with me, John Robbins. Find us wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.