Morbid - Fan Favorite: Bobby Mackey's Music World

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

This episode is a fan favorite that was originally published as Episode 476. We hope that you have a happy and safe holiday!When musician Bobby Mackey opened Bobby Mackey’s Music World in 1978, he had hoped for nothing more than to open a small nightclub where audiences could enjoy the traditional country music he had devoted his life to for decades. Yet before the club was even opened, it was apparent to Bobby, his wife Janet, and manager Carl that whatever the new night club was going to be, it would be anything but normal.In the decades since it opened, Bobby Mackey’s Music World has gained a reputation, not just as a one of Kentucky’s enduring country western clubs, but as one of America’s supposedly most haunted locations. Indeed, Bobby Mackey’s is said to be the home of several spirits whose lives revolved around, and in some cases ended on the property, including the ghosts of a lovesick showgirl, a headless pregnant woman, and the two Satan-worshipping men who took her head.Thank you to the glorious David White for research assistance :)ReferencesAssociated Press. 1978. "State to probe fire at club near Newport." Courier-Journal, July 10: 6.—. 1993. "Legality of lawsuit blaming bar for ghost antics to be decided." Messenger-Inquirer, October 23: 17.Caraway, Robin. 2006. "Wilder nightclub site has storied past." Cincinnati Post, July 17: 14.Chicago Chronicle. 1896. "Pearl Bryan's story." Chicago Chronicle, May 10: 33.Cincinnati Enquirer. 1979. "Kentucky closes Mackey's club, citing faulty wiriing, sprinkler." Cincinnati Enquirer, December 16: 26.—. 1978. "Wilder police chief wants state to close Hard Rock Cafe." Cincinnati Enquirer, January 17: 17.Hensley, Douglas. 2005. Hell's Gate: Terror at Bobby Mackey's Music World. Denver, CO: Outskirts Press.Moores, Lew. 1993. "Court filing by club's lawyer is poetry in motion." Cincinnati Enquirer, October 22: 26.2005. A Haunting. Television. Directed by Joe Wiecha. Performed by New Dominion Pictures.Wecker, David. 1991. "Bobby Mackey demon story: truth or bull." Cincinnati Post, July 9: 11.Wolfson, Andrew. 2022. "A twisted tale: A failed abortion, a beheading and pennies left heads up at a grave." Courier Journal, May 4. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's time to spring into something delicious with HelloFresh. Every week you get fresh pre-portioned ingredients and recipes delivered for idea. Get 16 free meals plus three free gifts with code Morbid16 at hellofresh.com slash morbid 16. Hey weirdos. I'm Ash and I'm Elena. And this is morbid. It sure is. We're here. We're here and we're creepy and we're weird and so are you. And we are back for part two of the absolutely horrific and brutal murder of Katie Hewalka.

We are not going to get into any business today, really, because this is going to be a long one, guys. I'm right. I almost turned it into three episodes, but I didn't want to do that to you. I know people, which are amazing, are like, oh, my God, give us all the extra parts. But I'm like, you know what? I got to get it into part two. Yeah. I also feel like part two will just be very, very long.

So essentially it will be three parts. It's essentially going to be three parts just in one. Yeah. So you won't have to wait for part three. Like two parts in part two. You know, parts. Math. Yeah.

Algebra. The only thing I do want to say is that the author of the book that I've already read twice now for this case, I literally read it twice. Oh my gosh. Because it's that good. Wow. His name's William Leroux. Like we mentioned in part one, I gave like a couple of his stories that he had in there, but I gave them like very general. because I was like, you have to go read how he writes it.

Right. And he has so much detail about the family. He's talked to so many people. It's just like so worth the read. Yay. Because there's just so much more there. Like after you listen to this, I know you're going to be like, holy shit, I need more on this case. Just because this case is wild.

And it didn't get nearly enough attention. That's how I feel. I want to read the book when we're done with this. So I feel like I'm telling you, go read that book because you are going to get a load more. Like, you're going to come out of there being like, what the actual fuck? Oh, I'm definitely, I'm definitely getting this book. Yeah. And so what's really cool is that William Leroux has a website and I'll link it in our show notes.

And he wrote like the nicest post saying about our episode, the first part of our episode that we did on Katie Hualka. And it was just like a really nice post. You said like very kind words. I know. Thank you. I'm telling you, I'm not being hyperbolic here when I say it made my actual fucking week. Like I was like, oh, yeah. Yeah. So, and to know that, you know, like, I guess her family and friends run a Facebook page as well, which we will link as well, with just updates.

Anytime the parole comes up, which we're going to talk about in this episode, they update. And they actually posted it too. So they were happy with the episode. And that was like, yeah, that's all we want to do. That's always just like, it really made. It's just like, oh, okay. You know, it's like, I just really want to do your loved one proud. so I'm so happy that that's happening here, and I hope I continue. But I will link all of this stuff. Definitely go grab his book. Go check out the website. Go check out the Facebook.

We'll link it all. But we're going to get right into it today because there's a lot to talk about. All right. So here we are. So when we last left you at Part 1, they had already arrested Brian McCarthy. They had interviewed him. He had denied everything. He was a big size.

of lying bullshit. Exactly. And he was now painting himself as a victim as well, saying that some man wearing a black jacket had come out of nowhere and had kicked him in the back, the neck, the head. He couldn't decide which one. Yeah, the invisible man. There was no marks on him whatsoever. His x-rays showed no issue. Like, he was fine. Right. He's just a lying sack of shit. And he was also saying he never saw a girl. But was then asking about a girl. Exactly. And he only saw a black jacket. That's it. But then he couldn't even, when they asked him, he was like, I don't even know if I saw the black jacket on someone. Did you just see it floating in the void? Where did you see it? And like, why did you bring it up? Yeah, he was a liar. And he slipped a few times with, you know,

where he would say, like, I didn't rape anybody. I didn't assault anybody, but they knew he did. Well, in the fact that he said that before that was even put on the table, like he wasn't even supposed to have known that a girl was raped. Exactly. He said in the interview, you know, this guy's telling me that I assaulted someone and this guy, and now you're telling me that I'm being charged with rape. And Chief Maytaught was like, yeah, I had never brought up. But now you are. But now you are.

And as we ended part one, Chief Mayotte stood up after that interview and he told Brian McCarthy, you are being charged with assaults and rape. Bye. And that was the end of part one. So August 29th was the day of the actual crime and also the day they spent hours trying to get Brian McCarthy to confess. and he just wouldn't. And like I said, denied, denied, denied.

But he was getting to a point where they were like, I feel like if we just get him a little bit over this, he's going to crack. Right. It's there. He's already slipping little things out that he doesn't even realize he is. We just got to get him over that, huh? It's so wild, like when you see this play out to, like, just how people can tell that someone's about to crack and the different tactics that they'll use.

Oh, yeah, because there's so many different ways you can come from every angle. I just, like, slapped my microphone. You came from every angle. Wow, okay, sorry. I talk with my hands when I get, as I'm sure you guys have seen it, like, virtual live shows and stuff, I slap microphones all the time. Oh, yeah. When I get really into a case, my hands are going to be a fly-in. I know that's why it's nice at the virtual live shows when we have the clip on mics.

Yeah. I mean, it is hard, though, because then I am known to, like, grab my, like, clutch my pearls. So you clutch that in my mic. Yeah, it happens. But, you know, sorry about that. I'm really into this. But luckily for the investigators, there happened to be a family friend of McCarthy's, who is also a senior investigator with the New York State Police Bureau of Investigations.

And they were a family friend of the McCarthy's. Oh, okay. Now, his name was Lawrence Maynard. And it could be Maynor or Manor. I'm not exactly sure which way. He knew McCarthy's parents, but he also knew Brian. And he knew Brian from a kid. So he knew what a shipbaggy was.

And he knew that it may be up to him to convince him to confess. Okay. So he was like, if I go in there, maybe just having a friendly face. Yeah. Maybe it'll make him, if he has feelings, maybe it will, some of it will help. Well, and that's how they do that whole good cop bad cop. Exactly. And it's like when you know someone since they were a kid, you're hoping that you're going to

trust them. Yeah. Now, in the afternoon, that same afternoon, after giving McCarthy some time between interrogations, they were like, let's want him chill out. To shit his pants. Think about it a little more. Think about all the mistakes he made in that interview. Yeah.

So they brought Manor into. the station and he asked to speak with McCarthy alone. Okay. So already McCarthy's probably like, oh, fuck. Also, like, two-way glass, you're like never alone in there. No, you're never alone. Actually, he didn't ask, that's the thing. He didn't want to talk to him in the interrogation room. He asked to talk to him in an office. Oh, okay. So this was not going to be an interrogation yet. He was like, I just want to chat with him for a second. Got it. And they asked McCarthy, do you want to do that? And he said yes. Okay. So they, you know, they went in there, 10 minutes. They were in that office. Then Manor came out and said, Chief Maytot, McCarthy would like to change his original statement.

So I don't know what happened. So in went Maytot and Lieutenant McKendry, who were the ones that were initially in the interrogation. And they told him if he was willing to tell them what events occurred that previous evening when, you know, we want to hear it. So if you're ready to tell us, we're here. And he said he was finally ready to tell the truth. I feel like it's not going to be the truth. So he began with the same story he had originally told. He said he was near the campus. He was peeing next to that fence near the opening in the gate where the shortcut is near the Walker Arena. He said when he was there, he saw a guy and a girl sitting in the grass talking and laughing. This was Katie and her friend Todd Kilburn. Right. Now, he said he literally sat on a rock a little bit away from them and just watched them.

That's fucking creepy. Fucking creep. He said then he saw them get up and walk and he followed them far enough behind that he would not be seen. He said he could hear them say their goodbyes. And he said, they said friendly goodbyes, even saying he heard like a see you later or something like that. I think when Todd Kilburn told the story, he said this too. Like they said their goodbyes after he tried to say like, I'll walk you. And she was like, no, no, no. And he said like she gave me a little kiss. Yeah. And that was it. Like it was a very happy. Like just friendly exchange. We're friends. I care about you. Bye. See you later. It was like a very

nice ending. From what Brian first says, this is exactly how that went. Now he heard the see you later, something casual like that. And keep in mind, once they were parting ways, he followed her through the gate, again, far enough that she wouldn't notice his presence. So he says, quote, as I was walking out, the girl was squatting in the corner peeing. And when I walked by, I didn't say anything. I didn't really see her at first because she was sitting in the dark. Then I got right on top of her. She scared me and I said, oh, excuse me. And she said, that's okay. He then tried to say she was bleeding from what he saw.

She was already bleeding. He was seriously trying to say she was bleeding before he got to her. Now remember, he just said, I heard them say goodbye and then I followed her. At what point did she start bleeding? So if you're following her, at what point did this all occur? And how did she scare you if you knew where she was? That's the thing. So he's saying I followed her.

I followed her. He's not saying why he followed her, but he's saying he followed her. He said it. And then he's saying, like you said, then all of a sudden, she's just in the dark peeing already, first of all. And that you didn't see her and were scared by her. But if you're following her, you're following her. And also, where did she start bleeding?

Right. Like, what do you talk about? None of this makes sense. He said even that she had her leg out of one of her pant legs because she was squatting to pee. Which also doesn't make sense because she's not far from campus. Like she, I don't think she was. I don't think that's true.

She was in campus at that. I mean, I meant to say she's not far from her dorm. Exactly. Like, why would she squat to pee at the arena on the ground? Right. And also, she wouldn't have time to take her leg out of her jeans. Like, think about the 80s, man. Like, how the type the jeans were?

I'm sure you're wearing the sneakers that you got to untie. You got to pull your leg out. You didn't have time to do that in the space that he was coming. I don't know if this is just me, like, or let me know if you've ever peed in the woods. You don't take your pants. No, I've never taken my pants off to pee anywhere. You push them back a little. Exactly.

You just squat. Right. And she just wasn't doing that. Like, that's not the truth at all. Like, nowhere did I find a report that said, like, there was pee on the ground. Right. Like, that she, somebody had peed. Like, it just wasn't a thing.

Like, why even lie about that? That's such a weird fucking detail to lie about. And there was a Kentucky fried chicken outside of the gate. Right. Across the parking lot. Like she could have just gone in there. Right. She didn't pee.

And again, she's on campus. She's not far from her dorm. And he said when this happened, he just, quote, went over. So again, he's like, oh, sorry. And she goes, that's okay. Very normal, like, interaction between two strangers. Then he says, he just, quote, went over and I pushed her into the wall and just, and then he said, I don't know how to say it.

This infuriates me. You do. You can do it, but you're too chicken shit to relay it verbally, you fucking anal fissure. Like, are you kidding me? Yeah. you're you you you don't know how to say it but you know how to do it think of the words brian because you fucking did it right and it to me it's like you just came upon this girl you bumped into her and then shoved her against a wall what the fuck is wrong with you yeah like oh this guy's a oh an anal fisher

truly right is a fine jewelry brand founded by women for women their pieces range from classic to statement to completely original. And honestly, orate makes the jewelry that you've always wanted, but could never find. I am such a stickler for good quality with jewelry, especially because I have super sensitive skin. So if I like wear something in the shower, I'm turning green right away. I'm getting itchy. And guess what? I'm throwing whatever that was in the trash. And that is not the case with Orate. Orate's gold feels substantial. And the diamonds, they sparkle and shine. It's very high quality jewelry. And it's beautiful. It's all real gold so you can wear it and you never have to take it off. You can shower with it,

which is huge for me. You can do your sports, you can sleep, cook, anything. It's jewelry for life. But the crazy thing is, because Orate sells directly to you without the middleman markup, they can offer the same quality as traditional Fifth Avenue brands at a fraction of the cost. Orate literally hacked the jewelry market, making real gold accessible. The best, best, best thing in my opinion is that everything is ethically sourced and sustainably made. Their gold is never mind, and their gemstones and diamonds are also certified conflict-free so everyone can shop with a sparkling conscience. And then my second favorite thing is that it was founded by women and made for women. Or rate was founded on the desire to shake up the jewelry

market by offering modern women beautiful designs, amazing quality at affordable prices, and ethically sourced pieces that they can wear every single day. And this is like important. to know, guys. If you're on the website already, which you should be, and you're eyeing a piece, but you're not ready to splurge all in one go. Get this. In addition to their transparent and fair pricing, or rate has also teamed up with accru savings so that you can enjoy the option of saving up for your dream jewelry. A crew is a creditless way to save and buy. You just choose your product, you open your accrues savings account, and make your first deposit. Then you're on your way to saving and earning rewards, which you could use toward your purchase.

Start saving for your or rate purchase with a crew now. Plus, you'll save 10% in rewards toward your purchases as you save. I personally am a big or rate chopper. I love all of their jewelry. I have a bunch of stackable rings that they have, the gold ones with cute little diamonds in them. And then there's some that are like chains, they're super cute. But my favorite staple piece that nine out of ten times, if you see me, I will be wearing it, is the Gemini necklace that I have from them.

That thing, I've put that necklace through the ringer. I sleep with it on. I sweat with it on. I work out with it on and I shower with it on and it still looks as beautiful as the day I got it. For 20% off your first or rate purchase, go to oratenewyork.com slash morbid and use promo code morbid. That's 20% off with no minimum spend and they rarely have discounts as high as 20% off. So I really encourage you to shop now while it's going on. This is the best offer out there and it's exclusively for our listeners.

So once again, go to orate, New York.com slash morbid and use promo code. MORB to get 20% off. That's A-U-R-A-T-E-N-Y-York.com slash morbid and use promo code Morbid to get 20% off. So he says, quote, I tried to take advantage of her. I tried, but I couldn't. I couldn't do anything. I just went nuts. I went crazy.

He can't even say what he did. That's what's driving me nuts. He's just using like, I just went nuts. I went crazy. I don't know. And it's like, you say the fucking words. Right. And you said that he had been drinking.

gang, right? Yeah, he had. That goes back and forth, though. Do you think also, though, that part of his anger was that he couldn't do something? Well, he tries to actually claim that a little bit. Yeah. But, or do you think he was just... No, I think he's a demon. Yeah. And I think he's a violent piece of shit. Oh, I think that either way. And I think he saw her and he said, I'm going to rape her, and I'm going to hurt her if she fights me. Right. And I think that was it. So, yeah. And I think she fought him back and he hurt her. Yeah, I think so. I think he's just a fucking demon. But he tries to use that. Because it's an excuse. Yeah, he tries to use it as an excuse. Like, I got angry. And it's like something beyond his control. And at one point, he even says a

crazier thing. So he's, he's an idiot. Now, this should tell you right here that he should be locked up forever, that he can't even say the words of what he did. Also, he's claiming to have shoved her in the wall and then tried but failed to rape her. And he really is trying to claim with her injuries that they saw that he shoved her into the wall once. Just poop. Shove her into the wall. No. You, like, he's a hang nail.

Her family didn't recognize her when she was wheeled past them. And you're saying you pushed her into a wall once? No. The cops knew they were like, you're a fucking hangnail. We don't need to listen to it. Like, they didn't buy any of this shit. But they let him talk because regardless, he was confessing to something. Now, he said a couple of minutes after he just, quote, went crazy, a car drove in.

it left again and then it came back these were obviously the two guards and so he basically relayed what avidician and shandy said happened like the car came in the car left they came back again then the two guards got out now maitat was like okay back it up and he said what did you do to her exactly because he was like that you're not giving me actually what you did you're brushing over things yeah and he said his response was she couldn't I don't think she could see me and when I walked up, she was holding onto the wall or something. She must have been drunk. Oh, yeah. That's, that's totally what? Now remember, Todd Kilburn was with her all night. And said she was completely five. She was not impaired. And she hadn't even had a drink in like an hour. At least an hour. Right.

Now, he says she must have been drunk, I think. I don't know. She was staggering. I also just love that he's like, I just did this to some drunk girl. Like, it's her fault for being drunk. Oh, don't worry. He's not the only one who claims it's her fault. Are you fucking kidding me? You better believe it. Now, and again, remember, Todd Kilburn said she was not staggering. She was on her feet. She was completely coherent. I never would have let her walk by herself if she wasn't. He said she wasn't slurring even in the slightest.

And now he's going to sit here and say she was staggering. And he said, and I just pushed her into the wall and right into the wall hard with her face. So now we're getting closer because they're able, they're kind of pulling out of him like, okay, so you did hit her face against the wall. But he's like, ah, you know, like once hard. Right. No, that's not it. And he then reiterated that he pushed her only once and that he tried but failed to rape her. Then it gets worse. He said that he had not kicked or hit her at all. Yeah, that makes a lot sense. Not once. Also, you just fucking said two minutes ago that you did. So then he said all of a sudden she was just bleeding from her face. That happens. Yeah, spontaneously. Yeah. And he actually

said, quote, I just looked at her and I said, I know I didn't do that. I just know that I did not beat that girl that way. Oh, I know because you're such a good person. And then he says, she had already been hit repeatedly before I had seen her there. Yes, I tried to take advantage of her, but somebody started to do the same thing before I did, and I just got caught. So now he's claiming someone had already beaten and raped Katie when he got there. And now he's, I don't know in what world he thinks that this makes him any better, that he came upon her like that, and he decided to do it again. And also, at what point did that happen while you were following her, you fucking idiot? You just told us you were following her from when Todd left. And she didn't

look like that before. But now all of a sudden you're changing your story. He's also, I feel like trying to make it seem like he came to and realized, oh, I couldn't have done this. I could never have done that. I wonder if that was like partially going for some kind of insanity. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. And that's because they definitely try to get that. It fails miserably because he is not clearly. He very much knows what he's doing. He's just a violent motherfucker. And I mean, the timing with Todd Kilburn was able to provide the timing of when they got up to that gate.

And there was other people around that said they saw them at the gate. Yeah. The time is right for him to her to leave, walk to that walk arena with barely any time. And then by the time the guards heard the noise and the ruckus and came out, there was barely any time. there was no time for one other person to have done this to her. It's just not true. And I'm sorry, but in what fucking world does that happen? Like, oh, okay.

Somebody gets attacked twice. So this campus is now just like the worst place you could ever be on planet earth. Because not this girl got attacked twice in the manner of minutes. Right. Just walking onto campus. Like what? No. So then he started talking about Todd Kilburn.

I knew that was going to come. I knew he was going to do that shit. And by the way, Todd Kilburn came in and gave his story to police. Like he was like, here's exactly what happened. Now, obviously he didn't name Todd because he didn't know who he was, but he started describing him and saying that when they had left each other at the gate, remember, his last statement a minute ago was that when he heard them say their goodbyes at the gate, very happy, very friendly,

goodbye. Now he's saying that he was screaming at her angrily and they left on angry terms and he yelled something at her as she left. What? He specifically even used the. term before that they said something like, see you later. Like used that specifically. Like, could that have been what he yelled at her?

See you later? Like, good try. Shithead. Like, you're really going to change your story in the middle of the story. Like, you, he's lying so much that he can't even remember what he lied about. That's the problem. And he's making this up as he goes. That is so scary that like within a minute's time, he's like, oh, yeah, she left him

was happy. Like, he was happy and they said, see you later. and then in like a matter of seconds he goes into, oh, no, they were yelling at each other. Yeah. What? And they brought that up. They were like, well, you just said that they were fine when they left. And he was like, no, I didn't say that.

And then he goes, the guy was mad. I didn't say that he wasn't mad. Do you think it's like a game that, like, like, what? No, I think it's specifically what is happening here is you can hear it while he talks because he, he like, stammeres to say something. He'll kind of like double talk just to get. through a sentence and it's like he's just making this up as he goes. And he's a bad improv artist.

He's not good at this. And he just can't even recount what he said a minute ago. And then I went to that place and there was a tree and I saw the tree. Like he's just making it up as he goes along and I don't know. And then it's just like he contradicts himself because he doesn't take into account what he just said. It's just so wild to me that people's brains work that way. It's he's evil. So they let this go because once again,

and McCarthy is incriminating himself. So they're like, let's just let him keep fucking this up. So they kept asking about the attack, hoping he was going to keep failing at this whole thing like he already was. And when asked again how many times he shoved Katie's face into the wall, because he kept saying once, he said, quote, well, once real hard that I meant to. And the other time, I didn't, I didn't mean to do it. I was just, I was trying to get her out of the corner, trying to sit her up or help her or whatever. And I dropped her. How dare he sit there and say that he was trying to help her. Yeah.

And he says, and I dropped her. And her face and her head hit the wall real hard, real hard. Trying to help her. And the worst part of this is that you know he's sitting there reliving this and somehow gets enjoyment out of it. And he's sitting there claiming to be this hero that he's a victim as well because he got attacked. And he was just trying to help her.

Right. And then somehow it hit her head against the wall. He then said he quote, so after this, he was like, I definitely kicked her once. But I thought you literally just said that you never kicked her. Dude. And then he said he did kick her, but it was an accident. How do you kick somebody by accident?

Exactly. He said, that's toddler shit. Right. That's like, that's a toddler response. Very much said. Did you just kick your sister? It was an accident. That doesn't exist.

Like maybe if you're like swinging your legs doing something, but not when you're attacking somebody. You don't kick them by accident. And he said, quote, I was trying to get her out of the corner, trying to sit her up or help her or whatever. And I dropped her. And he just said, that's what happened. Okay.

And then he admitted to removing her clothing. Accidentally, I'm sure. And he said he, quote, had all his weight behind him when he ran up on her and shoved her face into that wall. Oh, God. They kept pressing. And he said he never punched her, hit her with his hand. But then immediately followed that up with, I hit her in the midsection. And her, she kind of snapped her neck.

You know, her neck went back like that when she hit the wall. So you didn't hit her with your hand, but you hit her with your hand. And then that happened. Like, get it straight, dude. What? He also had a swollen hand. His right hand was swollen. And his next finger was all beat up.

Yeah. Then he said something that chilled every drop of blood in my body. Oh, God. Manor tried to get him to admit to kicking her intentionally and several times because it was clear he had. And he said, quote, no, I didn't. but I was I was rolling her and pushing her and just I was really, really mad. I was like picking her up and throwing her. And I was just using every bit, every bit of my strength in my body to move that girl.

Just, just shake her insides out. Oh my God. Literally said shake her inside. And you don't need, he doesn't even know this girl's name. And, oh, and it gets so much worse with that kind of stuff with him. He doesn't give a shit. No, obviously not. He has no regard.

You know, some of those like, like, horrific monster murderers that will know the names of their victims and we'll like say them in interviews and stuff and you're like like don't say their name he's even worse he doesn't get to it we'll get to it oh no so he said he hit he hit under the stairs because he had just you know raped a girl and he basically said that he was like I just raped a girl so I had to sit on the stand so they were like what and he goes I just tried to rape a girl wow and they were like honey like you're you're giving us everything we need. Right. And he ended up, so

he ended up in the interview saying he was not the only one who did this to her. Someone had already done it before he got there. So at this point he's like, does it matter that I did it? Because someone else did it. And then he started, we found out that Todd Kilburn was wearing a black jacket.

So when he saw Todd Kilburn and her talking, that he used to that to be like, this kid did it. Mental note. Yeah. So this fuck, Then asked, after all of this, how is she doing? I would have gouged his eyeballs out. I literally would have been like, you don't get to know. I'd be like, you're going to be doing.

Wonder. Sit there and wonder. What's going to happen to you? Are you going to get charged for rape? Are you going to get charged for murder and spend the rest of your life in prison like you deserve to either way? You sit there and fucking wonder. Well, then what's even worse is he said, will you update me on her condition?

No. Oh, so you can, like he knew he was going to be facing a murder charge. That's exactly what it was. He didn't give a shit about her condition. He just wanted to know what charges were coming to. I would have made him wonder for weeks. I would have literally been like, I guess you'll never know. I don't know.

You'll find out it's sentencing, fuckface. Now, this is where like that Katie's family just what a bunch of ballsy. Like, just, I just want to like high five them all. What they do? Because they just like didn't, they didn't retreat into a hole after like when this happened. And they were like, now we're going to fuck shit up. Yeah. And Katie's older sister, Betsy, was home.

She had lived in another state. And she was home with Carrie and Joe Jr. Because they were like teenagers at the time. Right. And she was like, I just couldn't sit any longer and just wonder what was going on. Because the parents were trying to keep them from seeing Katie. Of course. And they're probably trying to figure out how we're going to tell them all of the details of this without

traumatizing them. Well, and you're like, do they need to know? How much do they need to know? These are their children. Life does not prepare. you to tell your children that their sibling has been brutally raped and murdered. And that the world is that evil. Yeah, nobody can ever prepare you for that conversation. There's no instruction manual for that. And it's like, I can't imagine. And you're just, you're going through the grief

of what's happening. Exactly. And you're just shattering every, like, like, safety net you thought you had. Absolutely. Like, you're just like, unfortunately, you're actually never safe anywhere. Yeah, it's like, the day your kids find that out is like, must be the worst time. Yeah, and to have to explain that. Yeah. And it's like, oh. Now, she just up and drove to the campus to get some answers. Like, she literally up and drove to Clarkson University because she was like, I am not going to fuck around here. I need to know what's going on. This is my sister. So she literally went to Katie's apartment on campus. She interrogated her roommates like a true fucking sister would. Hell yeah. They told her the story that they were all at Bogies that evening. that they had left her, but she was with other friends. Like, they were like, we didn't leave her alone.

Right. She was with, like, Todd and everybody. And they said one of them was Todd Kilburn and that he had apparently walked her home. So Betsy went and tracked down, caught Todd Kilburn on campus at the frat house. Yeah. And questioned him. She even went to the crime scene at the Walker Arena and investigated it herself. I can't imagine that.

To, like, see her last steps to be like, like, what could have happened to you. Right. Like, who does that? Baddest sister alert, like baddest in a good way, sister alert. That's a sister on the planet. Now, August 31st at around 3 p.m., Terry and Joe, Joe Sr. were told, unfortunately, that Katie had suffered brain death and would not recover. Oh, man. So now the next step was giving consent to the doctors to remove the ventilator, keeping her clinically alive. And, like, everything these people have gone through in a matter of days to sit there and, like, wonder whether or not she's going to make it and come to terms with what happened to her,

way. That's the thing and it's like now you have to make that decision. Like nobody wants to ever, ever make that decision. I can't even. That is a seat you never want to be sitting in. And then before they could do that, there was legal stuff that delayed it a bit, which hurts my head. Because what a fucking decision you have to make. And then it's getting mucked up by legal shit. That's unthinkable. Because it has to do with like the murder charges, right? Exactly. Because technically if you make the decision to pull. Yeah. I was going to say the DA's office. was making sure every eye was dotted, every tea was crossed, before that ventilator was removed, so that McCarthy's fucking lawyers, like you were saying, can't claim that she maybe would have

lived if the doctors didn't pull the fuck. Because you know that famous case, it's one of the first Law and Order episodes I ever watched. And it's the one where I think she may have been pregnant or they had a young child. I do know. And he killed her. The husband killed her. But she lived for a little bit. That's, that whole thing came into play there. That's the same kind of thing. But it's like for that to have to be part of that whole decision making process. And to have to sit there and think about that. The legal ramifications and that this guy, could he get off? Right. And if this is done the improper way. And to sit there and think that these lawyers would even make that fucking argument of like, no, you killed her. Like that. Well, and as we'll see, McCarthy's lawyer

does try to pull that. And tries to say the doctors were the murderers. How do he, I don't. How do you How? That's a tough one. I'm like, you, I would not put my head on the pillow at night. You go home at night and like that's an argument that you feel good about. I understand like defense attorneys and like what a job. And I totally get that like they have to do everything they can. That's their job.

But there are that particular argument. I'm like, you really feel good about that one. I don't know what time you feel good about that one. There are certain lengths I think you just don't go to. Yeah. And this is just my opinion. Like I am not a defense attorney. so I don't know what it takes.

That's just one argument I could never wrap my brain around. No. And I could never wrap my heart around. I wouldn't feel good going home being like, I guess we're going to blame the doctors today. Right. Like, uh, I don't think so. And then the family gets looped into that because it's ultimately their decision. Exactly.

So now they're put on the hook. That's a very how dare you moment. How dare you indeed. So it wasn't until September 1st that she was officially taken off life support. Her entire family was around her when they did it all, everybody. I'm glad that. that like they got to be there for that. Yeah, of course.

And the thing with taking somebody off life support is a lot of people think you unplug everything and it's, whoop, and it's over. It doesn't work that way. That's not how it works. Sometimes that's how it works. Sometimes it can take days. Yeah. And their body still happens.

Luckily, I guess, I would say luckily, just so they didn't have to endure a long, drawn out process. She died in only 20 minutes, which also should tell you how bad this was. How much her body was fighting? support, her body simply couldn't. Yeah. Like, that should tell you how much Brian McCarthy deserves to be in jail. And that should tell you that the doctors in this case have nothing to do with what his defense attorneys were trying to argue. Yeah. It's just, and apparently the morning that Katie's parents had to rush into the hospital after she was initially attacked, a neighbor of Terry's

named Isabelle McConnell, who was a good friend of hers, had tried to comfort her by saying that Katie would be, she was like, you know what, Katie's going to be all right? Because that's just what you say. Of course. And Terry said she couldn't help. She was like, I know this sounds crazy, but I couldn't help but hold a grudge against her, her neighbor and her friend, because she said, after her death, she said, quote, I loved her dearly, meaning her neighbor. And she said, I loved her dearly, and I never told her this. I never said a word to her that, damn it, she lied to me. She was my good friend and she lied to me. And that anger that Terry must have felt for Brian and the helplessness must have made it so impossible to reconcile those feelings, because I get that.

Absolutely. It's totally irrational and she knows it. She's like, I know this is like, but I was mad. Right. Like the world was telling me that like I should have my daughter. The world tells me that this should not happen and it happened. Yeah. There's just no rationale when it comes to somebody brutally murdering your child. And that should tell you like how it ruins the people that love them. Yeah. That like she's literally like, I couldn't help it. I was angry that someone had told me she was going to be alright. I can guarantee you. I would have felt the exact same way. I get it. It makes total sense. If you've recently bought like anything, you've probably noticed that prices have gone up on everything, especially on the essentials like gas, groceries, and utilities.

That is exactly why it's a great time to use Good Rx to at least save on your prescription costs. How you say, and I say, with Good RX, you can instantly compare prescription prices at pharmacies in your neighborhood, and you can find discounts that could save you up to 80%. 80%. GoodRX is free and it's super easy to use and the coolest thing about it in my opinion is that it works whether you do or do not have insurance. Even if you have insurance, GoodRX may actually beat your copay price. You can check GoodRX online or on their app, which just so happens to be one of the most downloaded medical apps. From there, you can find prescription savings at over 70,000 pharmacies nationwide, CVS, Walgreens, White, Right Aid, Vons, Walmart,

more. And then take the money that you've saved with GoodRX and put it toward filling your tank, your shopping cart, or anything else that's gotten more expensive. I have personally saved money using GoodRX before. It's just really great to actually be able to compare the prices between different pharmacies because then you can just go and have the cheapest option. So for simple smart savings on your prescriptions, check GoodRX. Go to goodrx.com.com slash morbid. That is goodrrx.com slash morbid, goodrx.com slash morbid. Goodrx is not insurance but can be used in place of insurance, Medicare and Medicaid. In 2021, GoodRX users saved 81% on retail prescription prices.

Now, Brian McCarthy was immediately charged with second degree murder. Now, I learned this from William Leroux and a stranger killed Katie. Apparently at this time in New York, you could only be charged with first degree murder if the victim was a cop or a prison guard. What? Yeah, it was like a weird. Like a weird. Yeah.

This was in the 80s, remember. So this was a while ago. Weird shit. Weird shit on the books. Isn't it wild that that's like, what, 40 years ago? I don't even know. You're asking me to do math right now? Yeah, it's 40.

What kind of question is that? Math. It's math. Now, a subtraction question. Too much for me. Now, the autopsy for Katie was done by Jefferson, County Assistant Medical Examiner Joven G. Kwan, excuse me, but medical examiner Virgilio A. Allen was supervising the whole thing. That's very common that that happens. Now, Kwan noted that there were

several external injuries to Katie's body. There were severe and extensive bruising to her face, head, neck, and shoulders. And she had two black eyes and her nose and mouth were swollen. Now, she had a ton of defensive wounds also, like very much she was fighting back. Yeah. And one of these was a compound fracture to her right index finger. Oh. Yeah. So this tells you how brutal this was and how much she was fighting against him. Now, her cause of death was listed as asphyxia due to manual strangulation.

Oh, yes. Isn't that a shocker? Brian McCarthy lied a lot. Yeah. You never said anything about strangling her. Katie had a fractured hyoid bone, which you may know is the test. helltale sign that someone has been strangled. The bone bends. So if pressure is placed on one side of the neck, it will bend the other way. Right. And if the fractured bone tells a pathologist that pressure

has been placed severely onto both sides of the neck to break that bone. Like he can't claim like I kicked her or something because it will just bend. Right. Now, another way to be able to tell she was strangled was her brain. She had a bruise on her left frontal lobe and her brain, and her brain was in a state of neuronal necrosis. This is basically that the neurons had died specifically due to lack of oxygen. Okay. How does this happen? Strangling someone and then depriving their brain of oxygen for an extended period of time.

Yeah. Here is the kicker. And it's something Ash had postured in part one, actually. Would it have saved Katie for those guards to just come to her aid while the attack was happening? They couldn't say for sure. But if she wasn't strangled already when they first saw her, then she was not dead. And she didn't have fatal injuries yet because they said all those external injuries, while brutal and terrible, probably wouldn't have killed her.

Those were the only injury she sustained. They said, although it was severe and brutal, she would have been alive had they seen her. So just on its own, it's hard to say. It's this is really one of those things where it's like you can look at it from a couple of different angles. Well, and it's so hard because it's, I think it comes down to such an exact timing of when they would have had to see her. Exactly. Excuse me that you really can't say either way. But then if we look back on some of his interrogation, if you, again, I urge you to read the book because it has a lot of the interrogation in there, like the quotes, he says a lot of times that she was mumbling a lot.

So he mentions, because they'll ask her, they'll ask him, was she conscious, was she unconscious when you were doing this, that, she was conscious, he says most of the time, and she was mumbling or making sounds. To me, that sounds like alive. That sounds like you hadn't strangled her yet. Right. So if the guards came upon this, she was technically still alive. And if they had intervened, they could have possibly stopped it. Of course, there's that double-edged sword of like, we don't know. And also, like, there's a lot of factors there that, like, was it negligent?

Yeah. Yeah. It just was. But it was negligent. So many other parts than just those officers who weren't even officers. They were guards. Exactly. It was negligent in about 15 different levels to that point.

Yeah. It's really, it truly is just negligent all around. So, yeah, it's impossible to tell, really, but there is a possibility. Yeah. Which is devastating. Now, of course, once Katie had passed away and it was murder, the media went nuts. And they started the blame game, as they often do. Everyone but Brian was to blame, apparently.

They went after the university in the papers, the security guards. They were like, and they weren't the ones, like, none of the media that I could find was blaming Katie for it. But they were blaming everyone else. And I was like, can we maybe talk about the guy who did it with his hands? Yeah, like maybe do that. But Joe Sr. did release, once it started going crazy and people were like throwing accusations out there, Joe Sr., Katie's father, released a statement that read, I've seen the newspapers today and I've talked to the Potsdam police from the very first. I, her mother, and her whole family, in no way feel that there is any fault on the part of Clarkson University or the village of Potsdam. Okay. That changes when more information comes out. Okay.

They were not at this point, they were not aware of the fact that two security guards had witnessed the attack and had not stopped or stopped to investigate it. So they did not have that information when they said that. Okay. So obviously that changes. Of course. Because obviously we're seeing a lot of negligence at that part on the university's part and the guards part. So it's like at that point it is going to change.

Apparently the president, Alan Clark, the president at the time, and some of the other officials from Clark's in university, had come to the hospital on a few occasions to comfort the family, talk with them throughout the ordeal before Katie was taken off of life support. So they were feeling very, like, comforted by them and that they actually gave a shit. Unfortunately, to me, yeah, feels like they were trying to avoid that civil lawsuit that was going to be coming through once the real shit came out. Thanks, because, like, I didn't want to be the one to say it. And I was kind of looking at you trying to get the eyes of if I could say that or not.

That's just, that's what it looks to me. Yeah. When you come through all this stuff, it certainly looks like that was the case. I'm sure they cared. They're human beings. Yeah. But I think there was a little more like all the information wasn't out yet. And they probably knew in the back of their heads when it did come out, what it actually

happened that night, that they weren't going to look great. Yeah. I'm sure that there were people who went out of the kindness and goodness of their heart. And I'm sure there were people who went because they needed to save face. Exactly. Now, they were all just trying to. The family at this point is just trying to get through the day to day to day to do their best to make sure Katie's life was honored and justice was served for her killer. And they all did this in very different ways because you have to return to life and jobs in some sense of normalcy.

But how? How do you do that when your child or sister has been brutally raped and murdered? I have absolutely no idea. Joe Jr., her brother, was quoted in the book as saying, quote, in retrospect, it seems we all kind of retreated to our corners for a bit. I don't remember feeling alienated from my parents, but I remember there was my grief that I had to deal with first myself. Well, that's the thing because everybody processes grief so different. Yeah, I think everybody was like, woo. I think that, we gotta take a second. It's healthy to me. Yeah. It happens a lot, I'm sure, in families, especially bigger families, because like I just said, everybody's so different. You need a second. And I'm sure it's probably hard to be together without Katie. It's like you could feel the elephant in the room. That's what it is. It's like when you, you're together, it must be amplified times a billion because there's someone missing. Yeah. But when you're just like alone, maybe you can distract yourself or go about what you need to go

about. Now, her friends were also having to deal with this sudden loss. And remember, she has a ton of friends who loved her. And she had like one roommate that she was super close with. Yeah, Nancy. And they were teenagers too. They were teenagers. I can't imagine being 19 years old and having this happen.

You would never expect to lose your friend at that age and especially in such a horrific way. In like college, it's like you're invincible. Yeah, of course. And she had a lifelong friend. Katie had a lifelong friend named Jim Damiano. They were like since kids' best friends. They were as close as siblings. They had like a very sweet close friendship, like really sweet. He wrote an article in the Syracuse Herald Journal and he said, quote, I've lost more than a best friend. I lost a part of myself. To all of Katie's friends, there's a little bit of Katie left in all of us. Let's follow her example and enjoy our lives and live them to the fullest. To Katie's family, be thankful to have been blessed with such a fine person for 19 years. She loved you all very, very much. I know she is in a much

better place than here, and she deserves it. That's beautiful. And it's like, these are the, like, her friends were like, you don't understand who she was. And that says so much about who she was. Now, September 4th, newspapers were running all kinds of stories as things came out about the case and about Brian on the day and the night of the rape and murder. Now all the stories are coming out about where he was, what he was doing. Right. The stories about him getting into the fist fight earlier that night at the chateau and shooting someone in the leg.

Claiming he shot of somebody in the leg. Right. And somebody who said he stole $3. That came out. Yes. The hitchhiking shenanigans came out. And then a super bizarre story came out. So it's insane.

So apparently after Robert Warren Jr., the guy who picked him up as the hitchhiker, after he dropped him off in Potsdam and quickly hauled ass to the police station to talk about what a scary dude he was, Brian was already deeply entrenched after he got dropped off in another weird-ass moment in Potsdam. So a student from Potsdam State named Thomas D. Rupert had come forward with a story from that night. He said he and another student were walking around, they were hanging at a bar for a bit and then they walked out. It was a bit after midnight. They were walking through a parking lot on Main Street in Potsdam. him when a man just started yelling at them. And they said he had dark hair, scruffy beard,

Brian McCarthy. Yeah. He started yelling at them. And he was like saying shit to them. They really couldn't understand, but he was like being a dick. Yeah. So they yelled back at him, shut up and then just fall and then just like walked. Iconic. He followed them. Of course. They said when he came up to them, he said he was a police officer. And they were like, yeah, no. So they were like, which I love this. They were like, okay, like you're a fucking wreck. Like, you don't look like a police officer. Like, you can't even manage a bath, my son. But they were like, never mind a whole ass career.

What are you? Is that how you, like, school people? My son. Sit down. So they said, show me your badge then. Right. And he wouldn't. So he then told them if they moved a muscle, he was going to blow them away with his gun.

And he put his hand by in his back. Like, he had one. So they kind of taunted him a bit, which I don't recommend doing. No. And we're like, oh, you have a gun, huh? Like, don't do that. Because you don't know. And he was like, I do shut up.

But then he admitted that he was lying. Okay. So like what? And then he told them he was Brian McCarthy, literally told them his name. He showed them his license to prove it. And he said he was working with three state troopers that evening. These state troopers were legit in the fucking trees at the moment with sniper rifles pointed at the students. And that he had been paid $250 to watch those students.

No. And they literally were just like, no, that's not true. Like, that is not a true story. You pressed an incorrect key. And he was like, okay, fine, I'm lying. But do you like, I feel bad now? Do you want me to, like, buy you a beer? Or do you want to, like, smoke some of my weed with me?

I don't want to smoke anything that's in your pipe. And they were like, no, sir. And then one of them, I guess, was like, you can buy us a beer at the bar, though. Which I was like, I'd be like, you can definitely do that. That's some college student shit. That is. Because I'd be like, no. No. Like I would like, I'd be like, you can disappear from my life forever. Thanks. Like, that can be your repayment.

In college, if somebody offers to buy you beer, it's always a hell yeah. And they were like, hell yeah. Especially if like, he's just buying it and like, he's not handing you like a beer. So they had a beer together and that was it. He just left. I just loved that he was like, here's my license and my full last name and all of my information. And he did that because he was trying to do the like, I'm an appointment with the police. So like, here's my license. I'm not lying. Right. You can trust me. And they were like, what? What? that like they're going to go to the police and say like, hey, is Brian McCarthy working with you?

And then the police are going to say, nah. And it sounds like he was definitely on stuff or very drunk or something was going on. She doesn't sound like he's just smoking weed. No. And that's the thing. They were never able to like really nail it down. But then he's definitely a drug abuser and he's a known like alcohol abuser. Right.

And so at this point, like so that story came out and everyone's like, what the fuck? Right. Like what the fuck is this guy? At this point, because Katie has passed away, it's now a new charge of murder being added, which makes for a longer process sometimes. So on September 5th, they held the preliminary hearing for Brian McCarthy. This hearing was to determine if Brian McCarthy should be held in jail while a grand jury would be meeting to indict him on the murder charge. It's like such a process. It really is.

So Avedician and Shandy had to take the stand again and tell their stories. They both said it was definitely Brian McCarthy, who they saw on top of Katie that night. they were positive. And Lieutenant McKendry, who was in the room when Brian confessed, was stopped short on the stand by Brian's lawyer, Charles Nash. He asked the judge, Justice Rogers, to officially close the hearing to the media at this point because he said there was always a chance

that confession will be deemed inadmissible, which it happens, at some later point, and if that was going to happen in this case, which he was going to try for, they didn't want the media to already have published portions of it. Okay. because at that point, no jury would be able to be untainted if they saw that. The judge agreed.

So she also ordered that he had to have a psychological evaluation done. She eventually ruled that he would absolutely have to stay locked up until that grand jury meeting, which, thank goodness. He was evaluated. They found that he had a very high IQ, but that he had no. Like, he was not insane. It's also so annoying when, like, you're like, why can't you just do something good with your smarts? Like, why are you running around, like, accosting people and attacking women at night? And you just-wasting people.

Like, you're a waste. Yeah. But throughout this, and this happens often, the family was feeling a bit left out of the loot. They weren't getting updates. They were not feeling like they had power and making sure their daughter or sisters, rapist, and murder would be in bars behind bars for good. Yeah. And they were looking to make sure justice was served for Katie, but also for anyone else

who went through something like this in the future. They were looking at, they were like, I want to make sure that no other family has to go through this. So they wanted to know their rights and they wanted to know how they could be more involved, if they could be more involved, and just more informed. So Terry, Katie's mom, ended up hiring Joseph Fahey, an attorney Christopher Wiles, to aid her in this. Fahey was a public defender and a defense attorney and also was no, she was a known expert when it comes to all things about the insanity defense.

Okay. So this was an opportunity for Terry, Katie's mom. to ask if there was a possibility that he would try to use that defense and if they had a shot at making it work. So Fahey went to Potsdam and he talked to Officer Poretta about Katie in the case. They were able to read through the case file and see all the reports because Pareda left the huge file on the table when he left the room. Whoopsie.

And to them they were like, it felt like he left it to be like, you can't read through this. And then he just left like, like, do which. Do what you will. They said they immediately could see that he was not insane or impaired that way because he had made great efforts to lie about his crime right after committing it, like immediately upon committing it and then also after that. Yeah. They also came to the conclusion and told Terry that she and Joe Sr. should consider suing McCarthy for wrongful death and suing the university itself for the security guards negligence. Yeah. They basically wanted them to do this because there was a chance just the threat alone with

forced Clarkson to think about their security lapses and make changes that could help future students. They weren't even concerned with the financial shit. They were like, we just want them to make changes. And if this is what it takes. Yeah, we don't want this to happen again. Which that's amazing that they had the wherewithal to do that. Yeah. Now Clarkson University, meanwhile, was claiming that they would do all they could to keep students safe.

But the president, Alan Clark, was also claiming that it was a safe campus and that this was anomaly. After another student was raped at a huge toga party in the dorms on campus, they finally decided they should put more lights outside and actually had a connection between the two-way radios they gave the night watchman so that the police outside could actually be connected and they wouldn't have to go searching for a phone in an emergency. Why would you not have that on a college campus? That's unreal to me. The community was upset and wanted the university to do more and take this issue more seriously. Yeah. So Clarkson ended up setting up to public forms. And one of them was in Syracuse.

And they let people talk. They talked about what they wanted to do. They invited Terry to the one in Syracuse. And she went with her attorney, Christopher Wiles. And at this forum, Clark once again said Clarkson was safe and then basically said that the attack on Katie was only because she had put herself in a bad position by walking alone at 3.30 a.m. Literally get absolutely wrecked.

Get so fucked. in university at this time. Go fuck yourself sideways at that time. Are you kidding me? Yeah. I truly, truly, truly cannot. We're going to blame a young woman who is dead, who has died. And it's her fault for why can't I walk at 3 a.m.? Well, that's the thing. It's like, okay, but maybe should we say that like people shouldn't murder people at any time during the day? Right. Maybe we can say that. Like, I'm sorry, do we hit a time during the night? where it's like, well, you know, people are just allowed to murder. So it's your fault for being out there.

Because that's the thing. I thought we had a law that no one can murder people ever. And that's exactly it. We do. Like, just in case anybody forgot a thing. Yeah. But they talk about this girl walking at 3 a.m. Like, that's the crime that unfolded here.

Yeah. She put herself in a bad position. Yeah. I'm sure she was also wearing revealing clothing too. They should have just added that in there for good effect. Yeah. Well, he already tried to do the whole she was drunk. Like, that's her fault.

Does this go to show anybody listening? Like, how fucking long this shit has been happening. Yeah. And it's like Brian McCarthy is an evil monster of a human being who has shown for years that he is an evil monster of a human being. Continues now to show he is an evil monster of a human being. Let's just blame him. Yeah. Let's not blame Katie for walking home.

Yeah. Just literally walking home. And for being considerate enough to not want her friend to have to walk out of his way to walk her home. How did those words come out of your mouth as an individual? Well, she shouldn't have been, this girl who has died shouldn't have been walking home. In what world do you think that's going to go over well? Like, that that makes any sense. You know how there's that, that whole thing called like a filter, like it's, it happens in your brain first and then it's got to come out of your mouth. That should have stayed in the drafts by dude. You would think.

Wow. This podcast is sponsored by Better Help. People do not always realize that physical symptoms, like headaches, teeth grinding, even digestive issues can be indicators of stress. And let's not forget about doom scrolling, sleeping too little, sleeping too much, under-eating, overeating. Stress is a lot. It's a lot to handle. And a lot of times I get stress breakouts. I lose sleep.

I will stay up all night. I will binge eat. It's like stress just, it really shows up and it shows up in all kinds of ways. And in a world that's telling you to do more, sleep less, grind all the time, here's your reminder to take care of yourself, do less, and maybe try some therapy. I think it's just so helpful to have one hour, one designated hour a week or every other week where you can just go to somebody who doesn't have a horse in the race and talk to them about your problems. I think it's going to make you feel a lot better.

And better help is customized online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anybody on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy, so give it a try. and see if online therapy can help lower your stress. Morbid listeners get 10% off at their first month at BetterHelp.com slash morbid. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P dot com slash morbid. It's funny. There are all these gimmicks that promise a great night's sleep.

I do not care what kind of toppers there are or how heavy a blanket is. It is lipstick on a pig. If you're sleeping on a terrible mattress, your sleep is going to be terrible. It's really simple, guys. That's exactly why I personally recommend. sleeping on a purple mattress. That's because only purple mattresses have the gel flex grid. It's a super stretchy, ultra-squishy material that adapts and flexes around pressure points,

and it doesn't retain heat. The gel-flex grid is amazingly supportive for your back and your legs, while also cushioning your shoulders, your neck, and your hips, no matter how you sleep. Unlike memory foam, which remembers literally everything, the good, the bad, and the ugly, thanks to the gel-flex grid, purple mattresses bounce back as you move. and shift. You will never have in the like, I'm stuck feeling that you get with memory foam where you're just like sinking into a little divot. I am obsessed with purple mattresses. I would wear purple clothing if I could with the gel flex grid all intertwined up in it because I have a purple mattress and a purple pillow

and both of those things cradle me like I'm a sweet little baby going to sleep at night. Ever since I started sleeping on my purple mattress, I have literally never slept better. Like it is truly something. Try your purple mattress risk free with shipping and returns. Financing is available too. Getting a great night's sleep starts with having a great mattress. Get a purple mattress. Go to purple.com slash morbid 10 and use code morbid 10. For a limited time, you can get 10% off any order of $200 or more. That's purple.com slash morbid 10, code morbid 10 for 10% off any order of $200 or more. Purple.com slash morbid 10. Promal Morbettan terms apply. Now, after this unconscionable showing by the university officials,

blaming Katie for her own rape and murder. I can't even imagine what her mom wanted to do to these people. Terry heard this and was like, okay. And she immediately was like, okay, let's start that civil suit against the university. Let's go. Let's get one against Brian McCarthy. And let's get one against those two security guards for negligence. Yeah, like you want to say some shit.

I'll rock your shit. want to play? For the university suit, they put in there that they had knowingly hired to inexperienced guards, not even security guards, and then didn't give them proper training, and that they knew students were using that shortcut that was not properly lit, and there was no security there. Yeah. And the response by their insurance company, the Clarkson University Insurance Company and the defense team, that Katie's injuries and death were caused by Brian McCarthy and Katie herself because she engaged in culpable conduct. What? They literally blame. her.

What? What the fuck is wrong with everybody? It gets worse. How? They then said that they shouldn't have to pay for pain and suffering because Katie was not conscious during most of the attack. So they were trying to say... Before that happened.

They were trying to say that because she went unconscious for part of this attack, that she didn't suffer any pain and suffering. Oh, I'm sorry, were you there? Do you know at which point she became unconscious? Are you kidding me? How did... Again, that is another, how dare you? How do you put your fucking head on the pillow at night?

That's some evil, evil shit. That, see, and to me that says you don't have a mom, you don't have a sister, you don't have a daughter. Yeah. Like, so who are you? What are, like, you don't have anyone you love. Are you kidding? Do you have anyone that you love in your life?

Like, you can't if you think that way. How do you just have no empathy and compassion? And I just think of like, oh, just like knowing someone that that's their job and they do that, I'm like, ooh. Can you imagine like if you were like married to somebody that did that? No. I would be like, well, divorce. I'd be like I can't get down with this.

Like we are two different people. That's the parks and rec straight to jail. Straight to jail. It truly is straight to jail. Like that's out of here. It goes straight to jail. That's the kind of thinking that's just like so sideways. It's outrageous. How does your brain even concoct such a state?

Yeah. I'm like, I'm so angry and just like fully in shock. Oh, yeah. Now, during this, they also found out that President Alan Clark had also interviewed the two guards without anyone knowing and that there was tape recordings and transcripts of this, but the university was refusing to give them to the court. That's shady as fuck. And he had interviewed them shortly after.

So to me, that seems like they're trying to cover it up because they probably got some information during those. They probably answered truthfully. Yeah. And it probably doesn't paint everybody in a great light. So they don't want them to know. And like on the agenda that day was also assigning people probably to go to the hospital. And later, they were able to get these transcripts.

and the tapes, and we were right, and they were right, that it does prove that there was a lot of negligence here, and that the university was trying very hard to pretend that there was a lot of extra lighting in that area, that they kept trying to make them say in the tapes, like, well, it was very well lit, right? Why can't you just say that you're wrong and then do better? And then just fix it. That's the thing. Like, nobody's, like, everybody's just looking for you to do, to make it right.

That's the thing. But like to go against it so hard and like blame everybody else? Yeah, they dug their own. That's the thing. Like, fuck you. Yeah, it's really crazy. So Brian McCarthy was indicted on three murder counts and he pled not guilty. There were three because they were not able to definitively determine specifics about the rape.

So there was a charge for murder. There was a charge that he strangled her while raping her. And then there was a charge saying he strangled her while attempting to rape her. Okay. The sentence for any of these. anyone that he got was 25 years to life. Now, his defense attorney, Charles Nash, filed an order for the prosecution to turn over evidence,

any evidence that Katie had had consensual sex in the 48 hours prior to her rape and murder. Why does that matter? Luckily, there's things that can stop that from happening today. Why the fuck would that matter? Then, so that's the thing. He's literally being like, well, I want to know, like, was she having sex any time in the last 48 hours?

First of all, it's Brian? money or fucking business. Was your client? And it has nothing to do with this. Were you? Yeah. What, like, who gives a fuck? Security guards saw her being raped.

We don't need it. Like, people saw her, literally. What do we, we're not, we're just, why would they make that up? Like, it happened. They're just trying to make it seem like she's promiscuous or something. Which was, oh, it's just so frustrating. Wow. Then Charles Nash said that there was a possibility that the doctors were the ones who killed

Katie and not Brian McCarthy. But remember, they'd already known he was going to pull that kind of absolute horseshit and they did this before removing her life support. So he literally said, quote, disconnecting of the life support system may have been premature and due to gross negligence or intentional wrongdoing of the doctors. Let's talk about your wrongdoing. He's literally saying these doctors intentionally murdered her. I don't know how people in that courtroom sat there and didn't say to this man, your wrongdoing is

all happening right now. Now, what's even worse? During this whole thing, Nash and McCarthy were allowed to view graphic crime scene photos showing Katie and also a photo of her nude on an autopsy table. Why was he allowed to see that? Allowed to see these. Why? I have no idea. That never should have been allowed. I was going to say, is that, is that something that happens? Yeah. And they, and honestly, her family didn't find this out until way later down the line, like when it was already done. this family was mistreated. The pain that must have, I, the extra trauma that that would add, so fucking irresponsible. How, how do you show him that? Like, and how do you, like, the whole reason he's sitting here is because he raped and killed this girl. And give her a little

fucking dignity. Seriously. Like, are you kidding me? Now, luckily, the judge denied the notion that doctors killed Katie and not Brian McCarthy. They were like, yeah, that's not going to happen here. So there was a, and they, that whole, like, you need to tell. me if she's been having sex with anyone 48 hours prior, that was allowed to happen back in these, like back then, like very often it was allowed to happen is what I mean. And obviously, no, that was not the case in this case. But now, there was a suppression hearing on March 24th, 1987. This hearing was because McCarthy claimed he was forced into the confession, that he didn't fully understand his right to remain silent and that officers denied him a phone call.

and clothing and food. This is all bullshit, obviously, because he's been arrested a ton of times, and he knew his fucking Miranda, right? He's been read them about 30 times at this point. He also is just a piece of shit. And his lawyer was like, okay, well, to get this confession suppressed, I can just prove that on the day Katie was raped and murdered, Brian McCarthy was using a shit ton of drugs and alcohol and wouldn't have had the wherewithal to waive his right to remain silent because

he was so fucked up. That's what his defense attorney was going to go for. What a defense. So he got a ton of friends and friends. witnesses from that day, basically to put them on the stand and be like, this guy's a loser of the highest order. Like, that was their defense. Like, let's talk about what a fuck up he is. Wild. He had his friend Joe Lopez on the stand, and he testified that he had spent most of the day with Brian that day. And he said he saw Brian maybe have three beers all day. Okay, so that's like nothing.

And evening. And he never saw him do drugs at all, literally none. And this guy was there for the bar incident where the guy claimed Brian stole three bucks and all that. Still, he claimed, he's like, yeah, they got in a fight. They were, like, arguing with each other and we got kicked out of the bar, but he was like, he was not drunk. No. And then Robert Warren Jr., the hitchhiking guy, the guy, he picked him up hitchhiking, took the stand and claimed he thought Brian was maybe high, but not drunk. Okay. He was like, he smelled like alcohol. Like, he was just a dirty fuck. And he was like, in a bar. Yeah. And he said, like, he said he seemed spacey. Like, he seemed like, he seemed like, like he was just like not with me.

Right. He was very like, da-da-da-da-da-da. He seemed wired. Yeah, wired, exactly. And so, but he was like, I couldn't put my finger on it. I wouldn't be able to tell you what it was. So district attorney Charles Gardner thought a plea deal would be the right way to get the conviction that they needed with all of this.

He said the sentence was the same for any count he chose, any one of those that he gets. He's going to get 25 to life. Right. And this would avoid the possibility of an acquittal because he was like, we don't want to even go there. Terry and Katie's family, or yeah, Katie's family agreed as long as he would get that sentence. They were like, that needs to be what it is. Yeah. Now, while all this is going on, they're trying to get that confession suppressed.

They ended up not getting suppressed, obviously, because none of that. They were like, well, all of your witnesses just proved that he wasn't completely impaired. Yeah, exactly, that you would have like sound mind. So that really backfired on them. That's kind of funny. And while all this is going on in May, President Clark was asked to resign. bye and did eventually like all of the board was like you got to get out of here because there was also that that student that got raped at the toga party there were allegations of like sexual misconduct with like other officials in clarkson university against students like it was getting bad doesn't sound like it was like a great place back then now this case was one big part of a few incidents obviously for clark so he had no choice he had to resign yeah um which is good now meanwhile the judge for the suppression trial obviously said all of that was bullshit. He was well aware of his

rights. He said he was going to keep that confession. He was like, you know what it is to waive your right to remain silent. Of course you do. And there was no evidence that he was forced into that confession. So it, like I said, was admissible. Right. This was a huge win because now the confession could be used and that meant he had admitted to knowingly and willfully killing Katie. He only could claim insanity or plead guilty and ride it out. Those are his only, options at this point. And he couldn't do the insanity offense. It just wasn't going to happen for him. So now he just had to plead guilty. So eight days later, Brian McCarthy made the decision to plead guilty of murder in the second degree. And it would be a charge which said he committed murder

during an attempted rape because he was still not going to admit that he raped Katie. That pisses me off. He wouldn't have to admit anything really because he wasn't again admitting to the rape. He was just saying it was not his intention to murder her. That was what this was all going to That's like really frustrating. Truly the most frustrating. Now, he confessed for a second time for this, but it was bullshit. He now claimed he came upon Katie. He thought about raping her, but then decided he was instead going to help her because she was bleeding and undressed.

So he's like, I came up to her. I was like, ooh, I think I'm going to rape her. And then I was like, no, I'm going to help her. Yeah, because that happens. He just had like a devil and an angel sitting on my shoulder in the moment. idiot. He said, quote, so I tried to pick her up and put her over my shoulder, and I couldn't stand up that well. It seemed like she was fighting me. She didn't want any help. So any person's natural reaction when someone rejects your help is to say, the hell with them. And that's what I said,

and I threw her. Yeah, that's a natural reaction. That's not everyone's natural reaction, my dude. Yeah, not at all. You are showing you right now. Like, that is not anyone's natural reaction. I see your true color shining through. And when they said you threw her against the wall, He said, not with the intention of throwing her into the wall. Wow. Either way, you're throwing a human. And then he said, he couldn't say whether her face or head hit the wall now. I can tell you.

Well, the medical examiner can say. He can tell you. The issue with this, because he's doing this in front of a judge, the judge has to sit there, listen to him, say this and has to say, okay, this guy understands what he's pleading to. he's admitting to the thing that he is pleading guilty to. Yeah. It has to be all that. He's not admitting it.

Right. So he's standing in front of this judge being like, I don't know. So that's the issue. He's not admitting anything, but he's pleading guilty. And the judge would have to reject this plea. Oh, shit. So it took several times. Like, the judge was literally like,

dude, I'm not going to be able to accept this. Like, you have to admit what you did. So it took several times and a recess during this year. And was the family there? I think they were there for part of this. And it took also a recess. They took a recess because they were like, he's not admitting it. And even his defense attorney was like, dude, you have to fucking say you did it or we're not going to get this plea deal.

Right. But he was like, I'm not doing it. And it's like, well, then you're not pleading guilty. Like, you idiot. So they took a recess. They finally got him to somewhat admit that he tried to rape and did murder Katie, but barely. He's a dickhead. Now, luckily, it did work.

The judge accepted it. And sentencing was set for September 11th, 1987. So Fahey, the attorney, that is the attorney, Terry and the family was working with. He put in a petition with the judge to allow the families to speak during the sentencing. Like victim impact statements? Victim impact statements. It was rejected. The judge rejected that?

Yes. Why? So Faye, because I guess he rejected it initially on the grounds that he was like, I don't want any outbursts in my courtroom. I don't want any like this and that and all that. And so Fahy tried again. He was like, they're not going to have outbursts. They just want to say their feelings and like talk about Katie. Because they lost their love.

Because like they love her. Why don't you put yourself in their shoes and see if you would like to say something? So Fahy tried again and wrote the actual statements down for the judge from the family. Like they all wrote them down. So he could see that it wasn't about them wanting to cause a huge scene and scream at the defendant in court. They just want to be heard. Literally just wanted to make sure that the sentence was severe enough for the crime against their daughter and friend. And he, so this is what the judge, or excuse me, this is what Fahey said.

He said, in considering the validity of this claim, I would point out to your honor that from the moment of apprehension at the scene, Mr. McCarthy had sufficient presence of mind to formulate a false exculpatory version of his involvement in an effort to try to throw off suspicion from himself for the attack. He initially attempted to claim that he happened upon Katie being attacked and was himself a victim of an attack. And he was sufficiently convincing so that the Potsdam police transported him to the Canton Potsdam Hospital, where he was found to be completely uninjured and released. So he's like, he convinced the police that he was in fucking. Right. He then modified this version during the early morning hours of August 29th to claim that Katie had already been beaten and stripped of her clothing at the time he encountered her physical injuries.

He has persisted in maintaining this obvious fiction throughout his plea of guilty on August 13, 1987 before Your Honor. Katie will never know what it is to be middle-aged. She will never experience the happiness of marriage. She will never know the joy of having children. She will never enjoy the pride and satisfaction of career achievement. In short, one who has contributed nothing to this world callously and viciously took the life of one who contributed much and who is incapable of doing so much more. which I was like, beautiful. The end of that was like, oh, yeah.

Oh, because that's the thing like somebody who has contributed nothing to this world. Right. Nothing. Well, and he's speaking for the family and it's like, let him say it. Why? I don't understand why you wouldn't. Like, I understand that you need to maintain an orderly courtroom, but that's why you have a gavel. Like, just bang it.

Yeah, that's why you're the man in charge. Right. Take charge. They were denied again. That's fucked up. That's really fucked up. Luckily, when sentencing did happen, the judge did talk about the, the impacts that Katie's rape and murder had on her entire family and how he had a history of

violence and criminal behavior. That's wonderful, but it should be from them. That's the thing. It's like, I didn't experience this. It's cool that he brought that into it and was like making sure that that was known because it's what her family wanted to be known. But like, let their words speak for them. Even can't you read their statements?

Right. Just read their statements. Let them write it down so that it's in their words. That's all. Or just let them fucking talk. But he then asked, he did say, that they had, and he said the family has asked for the maximum sentence. Okay.

And according to a stranger killed Katie also, a priest in the community rode in and requested leniency for him. And I was like, excuse me, father, what? Like, know your place. Please step aside. Stick to Sundays. Step aside, sir. I was like, that like really annoyed me when I read that.

I was like, yeah. Since when? No. Liency on this guy? No. Isn't this against everything in the entire world? Doesn't it say thou shalt not murder? That's like, come on.

That like really annoyed me. No. Yeah. Like, you don't have a say in this. Piss me right off. Yeah. Now, the judge then read a letter that McCarthy wrote. No, thank you.

Oh, okay, that makes sense. I won't read it because it's a crock of bullshit and nothing he says matters. So like, I don't give a shit. So I'm sorry. Did he read the family statements or no? No, he just basically gave his own statements about what the family had said. Like, he basically reiterated what they wanted to do. So he gave this mother.

a voice instead of the family. Basically. So gotcha. He just, in this letter, he just whines and bitched about his rights being violated and that he was the victim here. It's weird. You violated somebody's rights to the point where you literally took them out of this world. Yeah. Now, he also cited, he also cited his religious beliefs and said that he would be forgiven by the Lord. So that's all that mattered. No, I don't think the Lord forgives you for killing people. He also said that he would give his own life for Katie's resurrection, which I was like, so did anybody in that coron be like, do it? Can we call you? Can we call you? your bluff on that right now go one two three go you said it right just saying now of course his attorney asked the court to be lenient as well he wanted mccarthy to at the very least be able to try for parole no the judge finally spoke and said mr mccarthy whatever is imposed will not and cannot make whole the family and friends of mrs haelka or miss haelka excuse me that relief is beyond the scope of this life you will for however long you do live have the burden of this incident for ever with you, as will I'm sure anyone who has ever associated with Ms. Huelika. It is the judgment of the court that you will be sentenced to an indeterminate sentence of

imprisonment, which shall have a maximum term of the remaining period of your natural life. And the court hereby imposes a minimum period of imprisonment of 23 years. So basically, he took two years off the sentence because it's 25 to life. He made 23. Why? Because he said he had time served and all that. this would also make him eligible for parole beginning 2009. Right.

So he did not get a life sentence. He got 23 years minimum and then you get to have parole. Maybe. Give it a shot. So that was not the sentence he deserved. Also, what a fucking precedent to send. I will give you time served and then I will give you the option of parole when you literally took a girl's life who was walking home. One of the most brutal murders and rape that I.

have ever come across and this guy didn't get automatically sentenced to life. This whole thing is like, where the fuck were your heads? Now, he immediately began serving his time. This is where you're like, wow. He immediately began serving his time at Clinton Correctional Facility in Danamora and then was transferred to Attica in October of 20 or 1987. As soon as he entered prison, he started receiving disciplinary actions. He wouldn't listen to any orders. He became very violent with inmates. He, and guards. So then your chance for parole should be taken away. Yeah, it was a constant with him as an inmate. At one point, guards found a shank under his mattress. At one point, he was in trouble because

he had repeatedly smashed another inmate's head into a wall. Does that sound familiar? Sounds like he's getting better, guys. In 1992, he was transferred back to Danamora from Attica. In 1996, because of disciplinary issues, he was transferred again to a maximum security prison in Auburn Correctional Facility. In 2000, he was transferred again because of his behaviors to Wendy Correctional Facility. In 2003, he was transferred to Cape Vincent Correctional Facility. In 2005, he was moved to Orleans Correctional Facility. And then in 2007, he was moved to Livingston Correctional Facility. I didn't even know there was this many correctional facilities.

But by all means, let's definitely let him, let's waste everybody's fucking precious time left on this earth to talk about maybe letting him out of prison. When it seems like it's such a good idea. Let's waste everybody's precious time. Oh, and he was transferred to Livingston Correctional facility with a note saying he was uncontrollable and should be separated from inmates. But we're going to give him a chance to be out in the world. In society. He can't be around other inmates.

Other inmates have to be scared of him. But he's supposed to be let loose on the world, possibly? Is that what I'm hearing here? Don't waste my fucking time. Yeah. Guys, it's hard to work out. Let's just say it. I used to get in this weird funk of not being able to just.

like get in some kind of routine because once you're out of it you're like how do I start this again? You need to be motivated to get up and get moving, especially when your day is jam packed like mine often always is. That's why I love my Peloton bike. I am not kidding guys. This brand is really something that changed the way I see working out. I am forever thankful. I personally am very committed to Bradley Rose as an instructor, but I have also taken some amazing classes from Mottes Morton, Allie Love, and Emma Lovewell. Honestly, they're all amazing. You can't go wrong. They have become my personal workout buddies, and Bradley Rosisms make their way into my day-to-day speech, so that's like very healthy, I think. But seriously, I just love that there's so much

variety to be had on my bike. I can take yoga, boxing, cycling, meditation, tons more. I never have to stick to one thing. They have thousands of on-demand workouts to choose from, and that's what I personally need to stay motivated because when things get stale, I'm out. Speaking of staying motivated, Peloton instructors are highly trained fitness pros who motivate you through every single workout, whether you're a regular at the gym, not me, or someone who is new or just getting back into working out. That's me. That's me right there. Whatever your fitness level is, that was me. Peloton instructors don't just teach. They motivate. That's what we all need. I always loathed going to the gym for like a myriad of reasons, but one was just feeling super self-conscious.

When I was just getting back into working out after a while, I didn't feel like I had any like kind of form going and I just didn't want eyes on me while I was trying new workouts or machines. So I would just end up sitting on like a treadmill forever and I just didn't work. With my Peloton, I can experiment with new types of movement judgment-free and at a level and pace that feels good to me. And if it's not fun, why are you going to do it? Why? You're not.

You're more likely to stick to a workout routine that you enjoy. So Peloton makes every single class fun. So it feels like you're just hanging out with your friends. I'm telling you, Bradley Rose. Nothing else gets you moving like the perfect song in every Peloton class is set to a seriously awesome playlist that you can actually see before taking the class. You in the mood for a ride full of club bangers like Ash? Yes.

Yeah, an EDM run? Yes. A metal ride? No. Yeah. A yoga flow class with soul music? Ooh. Heck yes.

Whatever you're into, you're going to find the perfect soundtrack for your workout on Peloton. See, Peloton fits seamlessly into your life, which is something that really appeals to me. Maybe you're looking for a 10-minute upper body stretch just between work calls, because why not? Or a 40-minute run before bed. That's usually what I do. Peloton works for your schedule, whether you have. five minutes or you have an hour. Plus, you're never going to have an awkward encounter in the locker room ever again. You ever had one of those? Let's not talk about it. Right now is the

perfect time to try out Peloton. The Peloton Bike Plus is now $500 less its best price yet, including free delivery and setup. And there are more game-changing prices available on the original Peloton bike and Peloton Tread. Visit Onepeloton.com to learn more. So then he was transferred again to mid-state correctional facility, and that's where we get to 2009 in his first parole hearing. And they, I can't. I'm going to just keep saying the same thing over and over again. This is a very frustrating thing, but this is why that petition is so important. You guys have been awesome. You fucking bumped to that petition up. You guys seriously did. You fucking rock so hard. Keep doing it. Please, if you haven't signed it, like just as, as, hopefully part two is given you more. After hearing this, I would hope that you would feel so inclined.

Sign it. Please just take like a second to do it. Yeah, that motherfucker has to stay in prison and we need to help that family make sure he stays in prison. And this family shouldn't have to go every 24 months. Do they go every single time? Yeah, they've gone like, or they've participated every single time. They shouldn't have to worry about this man walking the earth. Yeah. That's, so Katie's family immediately went into action. Of course. 2009, putting up that petition, writing letters, showing up to hearings. Clarkson University, under new presidency, also wrote letters to the parole board, urging them to keep him behind the bars. So that's good. That's good to hear. They wrote in the, I think it was in the 2009 one, they said, we submit that justice and the physical safety and emotional well-being of our campus community require that Mr. McCarthy be denied parole

and that he served the rest of his national life in prison. That's what the university said. Now they said this became like the family became their mission, this entire thing. Joe Jr. said this was his job now. Yeah. He was like, this became my job. He said, I'm going to keep that animal behind bars. I'm going to maintain Katie's dignity, her legacy. He said, quote, there wasn't much I could do for Katie the few days she did survive, but I can do this for her.

Which like, oh, that hurts my heart. It gave me like a lump in my throat. Yeah. So each time they do the most they can. Every single time he's up for parole, they're like, you are staying. time bars. According to an NNY 350 article, Joe Jr., Carrie, Terry, and Betsy give the parole board several statements of their own each time. They always send in photos of Katie for those parole hearings. And Carrie said, quote, we're told that they have to read everything that is given as part of

victim statements. So we give them everything. Amazing. Now, do you want to know what he said when they asked him in 2009 at his parole hearing how he came across Katie? And what happened? No. Do you want to know? No. In his 2009 parole hearing, he said, quote, she was on the campus, on the Clarkson campus, and she was going home, and I was going across the campus to meet some friends. You don't have friends. Since when. And it was, I was inebriated, and I was involved in drugs, and she was inebriated. Oh, you know that? No, she wasn't. And she asked me if I wanted to participate in having sex. And I tried, and I couldn't. And she got mad and spit in my face, and it made me angry. all the way, 23 years after this happened, 23 years after this motherfucker went to jail and made up all kinds of shit, he is now still going to blame it on Katie. And he is still going to change his story completely. This is him trying to get out, by the way.

This is him trying to get parole. He makes up a totally different story. They were shocked. The parole board was like, what? Like, he has never said this story. So they were like, what are you talking about? And so they were like, did you know her? Like, you didn't know her?

That was established in the first court, like the whole trial. And he said, I met her a few times. This is a lie. This is a full-blown lie. Of course it is. Everything he says is a lie. Then he was like, I knew her from a bar. I met her there.

And then, like, we went to a hockey game together. What? What? How dare you? So then the parole board was like, you didn't accompany her to a hockey game or accompany her to a bar, did you? Because they were like, you're a, fucking liar. And he, I guarantee it. No. He said, I did to the hockey game. And they said, you had a date with her to a hockey game? Because they're like, what? Where is this coming from?

And he said, well, not really a date. We had seats together. And we went together. And we saw the hockey game. We were interested in the same teams. So they said, who acquired the seats? How did the seats end up being next to each other? Like if you didn't go together? And he said, I knew people that worked at the college. And they told me there were seats available so we could utilize them. I'd be like, what was the team name? So they were like, so you say, how did she get into that seat? You asked her to sit in that seat? And she said, yes. And they said, so you did know her before. And he said, through someone else, but not personally, but it was only happenstance that we did have those seats together. What? None of this happened. And then the parole board, he was like, okay, so one of the guys

on there was like, well, explain that to me, because I don't understand. And he said, the two tickets were, well, actually, there were four tickets. And two of the people. didn't show up. The way, I love that even 23 years later, he still can't do it. Still stick into the same shit. Not sticking to the same ship, but like the same theme of lying. Back on his bullshit. Two of the tickets were given to me and I went on, went to one of my friends that was on the college campus that was going to Clarkson. And he had asked me if I wanted to go to the game. And I assumed that he was asking me to go. He handed me both tickets. Then when he said when he asked the friend, what do I do with this other ticket that you gave me? He said the friend was like, you should take Katie. So.

you didn't know her though What? This isn't a real like the reality like this isn't like this isn't like No I think he's trying I was gonna say This is literally him just not know it he can't lie he doesn't even know what to say So he goes so that I said okay fine and that's how I met her And they were like I thought you met her at a bar I thought you already knew her Why would this person suggest going with this girl that you didn't know? I would have tapped the gavel and said no parole bye

And so they were like okay so she wanted to just go to the game, she didn't necessarily want to go to the game with you, right? Like, they were literally like, it sounds like she just went to the game. And he goes, exactly. She was just interested in the hockey game and not interested in me. I'd be like, why the fuck are we even talking about this event that clearly did not happen? This was complete bullshit. She was a student also, so Katie literally could just get tickets to a home game if she really

wanted to go to one. Right. Like, you could get free tickets. And Nancy, her roommate, said that McCarthy literally was never, like he did not, like, we didn't know who he was. I'd never met that man. Because he wasn't a student here. No. And he didn't know anybody on campus. He's bullshitting this whole thing. He followed her onto this campus. He had no connection to this campus whatsoever.

All of her roommates were like, we went to hockey games before on campus, like all sports games. He was never there. We don't know who he is. We've never seen him on campus. This is a bunch of bullshit. He did not know Kate. It's complete and utter bullshit. And also, it's like, okay, so you're telling me now that you knew her, you like kind of went somewhere with her, but this night you decided to, like, kill her because she didn't want to have sex with you? What? How did that happen? Like, that doesn't make any sense. No, it's not the truth. So it gets worse. They asked him, and this is his first parole hearing, by the way. How does it get worse? He's going right out the gate with just, thank goodness he is as shitty as he is. And I love that at the

end of it. They're like, yeah, let's do this again in two years. Let's try this again. So they asked him more about the night of the crime. And he denied the whole thing. He said he forgot every. And he said he forgot everything. Maybe he got hit by some unknown assailant in a black jacket. He can't really remember anymore. Totally. Then when asked about the only thing he did remember from that night, they were like, what is one thing you remember from that night? He said, striking Kathy Walker. Aye. His parole was denied, by the way. Striking Kathy Walker. Who's that? I. Who's that? I. Oh, it gets worse. Wow. So Carrie said, her sister, Carrie said, this was a random act.

My sister did not know Brian McCarthy. Of course not. He was on parole when he brutally murdered her because he was. I forgot that because this has been so insane. So the parole board wrote that he demonstrated limited insight into the violent, heinous acts and no remorse was there and any that was was superficial at best and geared towards ingratiating yourself with the panel. All factors considered, the panel can conclude. that your release at this time is incompatible with the welfare and safety of the community.

Yeah. Now, in 2011, second parole hearing, he did the same story, but this time he said the medical examiner was wrong and said, no. Her death was because of the way she hit the ground, not because, and he said if she was asphyxiated, it wasn't because I strangled her.

It was because I threw her against a wall and her neck snapped or something. That broke her highway. Yeah. Sure. He then referred several times to Kim Avidiquian, which is one of the security guards, but he was referring to him in like weird ways and they were like, do you know who that is?

Like, why are you saying that person's a name? And then they realized that he was talking about Katie. But he was calling her Kim Avidikian. What? Because he didn't know her name. He just heard that name in the press somewhere and was like, oh, that must have been her name. You've had 23 years to know her name, or 25 now. The first parole hearing, he claimed that they knew each other and that they agreed to have sex.

and that he couldn't do it, and she spit in his face, and he got mad and killed her. And then at the end of that, he calls her Kathy Walker. So in the beginning, he's saying, I know her. So then you've had two years to get it. Kathy Walker. Two more years, he must have heard the name Kim Avidiquian, and he was like, oh, that's her name. Don't you have access to your own case files while in prison? Like, you can review them, right?

He doesn't give a shit. But that's like a thing, right? Yeah, you get, like, he definitely has heard her name. But you just didn't commit it to memory because he doesn't care. Or do you think he's being an asshole and saying the wrong name on purpose? I think he literally doesn't care and I think he's a fucking idiot is what I think. That's unreal. Yeah.

That parole was denied. Good. He's been denied ever since. And at one of the recent ones, his family wrote a letter, his own family, wrote a letter urging them to keep him behind bars and saying they have severed all ties with him and saying they have covered all ties with him and saying like, we have nothing to do with him. He should be in bars for life. That's nice of them. Yeah. Now, when it came time for Clarks and university's civil lawsuit, by the way, they obviously offered a settle to try to make it go away.

Oh, of course. Hush, hush. Yeah. But Fahey told them the family would really only do that if they agreed to publicly apologize for blaming Katie for her own rape and murder. Yep. If they actually promised to beef up security on campus. Yep. If they acknowledged publicly that they were negligent as fuck.

And if they gave and agreed upon financial settlement that was not released, they agreed. Okay. They settled and actually apologized and publicly wrote something that said it was not Katie's fault. But they stopped short of admitting their own wrongdoing and admitting that reps from the university had publicly painted the crime as being partially Katie's fault. But whatever. Now, luckily, in the years that followed, Clarkson did beef up their security. They added lighting, they added training, more security personnel. So Katie's family did exactly what they wanted to do, which was incredible. They caused that. Absolutely. Like kids at Clarkson University are safe now because of Katie's family. And because of Katie's family. And because of Katie. Yeah. And so Terry actually told one media outlet, Clarkson will be a safer campus. I hope we can keep one more family from going through what we've gone through.

What we were looking for from the university was to accept responsibility and to do more conscious raising so that this would not happen again. What came out of this was awareness of crime on campus. So they were looking for that. We just want it to be better. Right. Now, Terry kept trying to change things, and she worked to fight for justice for victims. She joined victims of Crime Advocacy League of New York, which is called Vocal. And it's a group that centers on victims' rights.

It was started by a father of a young woman who was murdered in 1977 at another university. And this group pushed for a notification system for victims' families that would let them know the second their family member's killer was up for parole. So, like, that would be so good to have. Yeah, definitely. Now, outside of that, Terry also linked up with other parents of murdered students and murdered kids. They worked together to change the way victims and their families are treated throughout the judicial process. And in 1989, she and other families lobbied lawmakers to make it so colleges had to release their crime stats to prospective students before they went in. They absolutely should.

Because they believed this was a safe campus. Right. It was in a small place, a safe place. They should have known that there was some stuff going on here. Eventually, the students write to know and the students right to know in Campus Security Act was signed into law November 8th, 1990. It later became the Gene Cleary disclosure of campus security policy and campus crime statistics act. It's also called the Cleary Act. Okay.

Gene Cleary is a victim of a crime on a campus, so it was after her. Of course. Now, after all of this, Katie's family said they came even close. closer together. They were inseparable. They supported each other even more than they had before. They always said, I love you to each other when leaving. They never took a second for granted with each other. They attribute that the Katie's spirit and her legacy. And a lot of them had what they feel are spiritual experiences surrounding Katie. I love it. They said her photo will fall off of things or like strange things like that will happen, especially with her photo, which I love. Like she's still around.

Yeah, she, of course she is. Because she's like, look at me. My family. Yeah. Like, look at my family and what they've done. And what they've accomplished. And what they're doing. Now, sadly, in 1994, Joe Sr., the father, was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Oh, my God.

He did treatment. He did go into remission. But then August 10th, 2007, he did pass away at the age of 67. Oh, I'm sorry. Now, Terry said, quote, I just want to keep Katie alive in everybody's hearts. And I don't want her to be forgotten. No. So that is what.

Neither do we. We are here to do today. And I know this was like. long. Thank you for bearing with me, but it was all so important. I was going to say, it doesn't matter how long it is. And there was just, and there's so much more. There's so much more. Read, I'm telling you. Read a stranger killed Katie by William Leroux. We're going to wink it again. We'll link the petition. We're going to link the family's Facebook page. Definitely go check it out. Check out the Facebook page. Sign that petition. Please. I think we got it up to like past 13,000. And I think it was at like 8,000. So let's like get that thing rolling.

I will post it on the morbid Twitter and Instagram, and we should also post it on our own socials. I want to make it so that they don't have to do this every 24 months. I want him, let's cut that shit out. Nip that right in the bud. No parole for this fucker. He's got to be in. That's it. Like, they should just spend the rest of their lives remembering Katie in whatever way they want to,

not because like a parole has something to do with it. They shouldn't have a ticking time clock every 24 minutes or every 24 months it resets. No. And that's all they're going to think about. Let's get this fucking shit. Her life needs to be celebrated. Yeah. So that is the story of Katie Hewalka's murder.

Wow. It's horrific. I had not heard enough about it. So I was like, what the hell? But, like, it just shows you that, like, this family is amazing. Katie was amazing. And Brian McCarthy is a piece of fucking garbage and should never be up for parole. No.

He's one. I mean, it's, he's been violent in prison. Right. He's been violent before that. What do you guys do? He's calling her different names even now. He's a piece of shit. He has zero remorse.

He would do it again in a second. No one wants to hear what he's spewing. Yeah, I believe fully he would do it again in a second if release. He has. He did it in prison. Exactly. Almost exactly the same way. Exactly.

So thanks guys for hanging in there. And yeah. We hope you sign that petition. Yeah. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't sign the petition. Check out any social media page.

that is affiliated with us and you'll be able to find it. I love you so much. Bye. Do it.