Morbid - Fred & Rose West (Part 4)

Episode Date: May 27, 2024

Part four focuses on Fred & Rose West's final crimes, and the events leading up to their arrest. Their subsequent trials would become the focus of the nation as people learned of the atrocities performed at their home. Thank you to the wondrous Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for Research!ReferencesAmis, Martin. 2000. When darkness met light. May 11. Accessed March 21, 2024. https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2000/may/11/features11.g2.BBC News. 1998. Fred West 'admitted killing waitress'. March 25. Accessed March 19, 2024. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/69928.stm.—. 2001. How many more did Fred West kill? September 27. Accessed March 19, 2024. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1567038.stm.—. 2021. The 12 victims of Fred and Rosemary West. May 27. Accessed March 18, 2024. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-57182844.Bennett, Will. 1995. Step-daughter Charmaine was first to die. November 22. Accessed March 19, 2024. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/stepdaughter-charmaine-was-first-to-die-1583071.html.Birmingham Evening Mail. 1974. "Missing girls theory." Birmingham Evening Mail, January 7: 1.Birmingham Post. 1968. "Missing waitress mystery deepens." Birmingham Post, January 23: 2.—. 1974. "Student missing for six days may return ton university-police." Birmingham Post, January 2: 2.—. 1968. "Yard detectives join search for Gloucester girl." Birmingham Post, January 9: 1.Campbell, Duncan. 1995. "How a string of girls came to die in depraved and appalling circumstances." The Guardian, October 7.Duce, Richard. 1995. "West's suicide avenged killings, QC tells jurors." The Times, November 16.Duce, Richard, and Bill Frost. 1995. "Court told of depravity at 25 Cromwell Street." The Times, October 7: 4.Evening Post. 1968. "Helicopter joins hunt for Mary." Evening Post, January 8: 1.Evening Standard. 1974. "Have you spotted this girl?" Evening Standard, July 4: 18.Frost, Bill. 1995. "Cromwell Street murders case man is dead." The Times, Janaury 2.Frost, Bill, and Richard Duce. 1995. "I'm being made a scapegoat, says West." The Times, November 2.—. 1995. "No place for sentiment, West jurors are told." The Times, October 4.—. 1995. "West: I fell under Fred's spell." The Times, October 31.Gloucester Echo. 1994. "Did builder know Mary?" Gloucester Echo, March 8: 3.—. 1994. "Graden bodies: Who were they?" Gloucester Echo, March 2: 1.Gloucestershire Echo. 1995. "From angelic child to coldest of killers." Gloucestershire Echo 5.—. 1995. "Fred West found dead." Gloucestershire Echo, January 2: 1.—. 1995. "I'll see you in court, Rose." Gloucestershire Echo, January 4: 1.Knight, Adam. 2014. Fred West's brother denies incest claims. November 7. Accessed March 17, 2024. https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/11587578.fred-wests-brother-denies-incest-claims/.Lee, Adrian, Tim Jones, and Damian Whitworth. 1996. "Fred West's brother hangs himself." The Times, November 29.Ovington, Paul. 1974. "Hunt steps up as fear grows for Lucy, 21." Western Daily Press and Times, January 4: 1.Sounes, Howard. 1995. Fred & Rose: The Full Story of Fred and Rose West and the Gloucester House of Horrors. New York, NY: Open Road Media.United Press International. 1995. "British jury convicts West of 10 murders." UPI Archive, November 22.West, Mae, and Neil McKay. 2018. Love as Always, Mum: The True and Terrible Story of Surviving a Childhood with Fred and Rose West. London, UK: Seven Dials Press.Williams, Martin. 1994. "'Our sister is still alive'." Gloucester Echo, February 26: 1. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. Wow, what a week, guys. The true crime world is going off. Stuff is just happening. Some good, like, justice being served stuff and then some really scary stuff. So we just wanted to quickly touch upon it because I'm sure everybody's got it in their heads. That Robert Durst was convicted of first-degree murder, which I feel like a lot of people are like, he wasn't. already. Okay, I know, because when I think, did you say it last night or did Drew? You were like, oh, and I was like, he wasn't all right? Like, I thought that happened. Cool. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's great, like awesome. Yeah. The jinx, if you haven't watched it, go watch it. Yeah, I mean,

Lux agrees. So I don't know if you heard that little meow. Yeah, we're at my house today and you might hear a cat or two. You might hear some Lux, might hear some Franklin. Probably more Lux. Either way, go watch the jinx on HBO. It was really good. The other huge thing that happened, it's a case we have not covered yet, but it's always been on my list. And now there's some amazing closure, at least, to this case. There's been an arrest made in the Faith Hedgepeth case. This happened in 2012, Faith's murder.

That's so crazy that, like, just now it's happening. Yeah, and it was, they were able to match a DNA from the crime scene to the DNA of Miguel Enrique Olivares. and he is being charged with first-degree murder. Yikes. This case is brutal. It's awful. It's so senseless.

And I'm so glad that her family has got at least something. I know her mother came out and said, you know, all she did was cry when she got the news. Of course. Because, like, what else do you do? Because it doesn't change anything. No. It doesn't bring them back. It doesn't make it better.

But they at least now know they have some kind of cap on it. This person did this. And we're going to get him. off the streets. At least there's that. So that was huge, like so huge. I'm so glad it happened. But those two things were like, boom, boom. And then last night we find out that Brian Laundrie, who is Gabby Petito's fiance or boyfriend. I read in some cases, in some places that they had split, like they had like changed their engagement status and decided not to go forward with it. Significant other. Significant other, exactly. But yeah, he just fled.

And the police don't know where he is. So he is on the run. Yeah. There's a lot of places, and I think it's really important to note this, that are saying he's missing. He's not missing. He's not missing. Sorry. No one kidnapped him.

Because regardless of what happened here, he went on the run. He's not missing. Like, he fled. Regardless of whether he is guilty, innocent, or somewhere in between. Right. That is to say he's missing is just not true. It's just not. And I believe Gabby's family came out and said, like, he's not missing.

Gabby is. Gabby's missing. There's a lot of weird stuff going on with this case. We're not going to repeat any of the things that have been floating around because I think it's until things are confirmed and until things are officially said about it, I don't want to sit here and go, well, I heard that this happened. I heard that this happened. Because all we know for absolute sure is the last time he was seen was on Tuesday by his parents. That's what they say to police. And that he is currently in places unknown. Yeah. The, attorney for his family said, be advised that the whereabouts of Brian Laundry are currently unknown. The FBI is currently at the laundry residence for moving property to assist in locating Brian.

As of now, the FBI is looking for both Gabby and Brian. And then a few hours ago, actually, I think about six hours ago, it came out that his family says they believe he entered this area earlier this week. And this area is the vast Carlton Reserve. It's a 24,565 acre preserve, which is north of his home. And they think he might be there. So police are out there like right now looking around and searching. This, I mean, this just gets weirder and weirder as it goes.

But I'm, I mean, I'm still hopeful. Holding out hope that there's going to be some kind of happy ending here. It's a very, it's like very bizarre. It's strange. I don't know what to make of it. But just weird. All I keep thinking about is like, I really hope that Gabby's okay. And I know, I feel so hard for her family.

Like, her parents just break my heart. And I really hope that they get a happy ending out of this. I really do. I know. And let's keep talking about it. Let's keep spreading her picture. Let's keep spreading the word. You know, don't spread any pictures that are like Photoshop because I know suddenly people

are getting in on this and being like, I saw this, I saw them. I saw them. And it's like, no. So just make sure when you share stuff that you make sure it's like, confirmed stuff. It's easy to make the mistake of sharing something that you think might be real because we've all done it. Yeah, of course. Just try to like look just to make sure that we're sharing stuff that's going to help her family and not. And from like a valid source. Exactly. Which I know, I know you all will do. Of course. I'm just saying. But yeah, so we are still thinking about Gabby

Petito and we hope that this has a happy ending. But we'll see. But yeah, that's the first ones that could come to mind were the Gabby Petito case. Yes. The twists and turns happening in that. And then Robert Durst and then Faith Hedgepeth. That was a really happy one and a really good one. So let's end on that one before we begin this. But today, I don't know if you guys have noticed, but I did a couple of pretty gnarly intense two-partners. You did? I don't, I didn't notice. I don't know if you noticed. But I felt that. Yeah, I felt it really hard. My psyche was right there.

Yeah, so I was like, you know what? I got to go in a different direction this week. I got to take my own mind into a different direction. I feel like it's, you know, it's the beginning of spooky season. Let's get it. Le Spooky. So I wanted, you know, New England during spooky season during the fall is just my, I mean, I love where I live, but I also just in the fall, it's like. It's like a dreamland.

It's a gift. Like I love it here. It truly is a gift. It's not real. Like as soon, there's trees in my yard that the top of them are starting to turn yellow. Yes. And I was watching it and I was like this. I just love it here.

Hell yeah. Like I love it here. I love Massachusetts. It's the absolute best. I'm such a New England. But so I decided, I was like, you know what? I want to stay here. We have all that spooky history.

I got to find something good. Hell yeah. And you know what? I found something good. Okay. In Massachusetts? Well, it's in New England. New England.

Oh, yeah. It includes Massachusetts. Massachusetts? Massachusetts? You don't say. Oh, my God. But, and I had heard about this. I've always wanted to, like, go further into it. And finally I did. So we are going to talk about the vampire panic. Yes, I said vampire panic in New England in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries. Okay. I'm ready. I was born ready. Yes. Now, before we get into this, so I, this is, like, fascinating to me. Vampires are. It really is. And also the fact that this is real. Yeah. And just like what people thought vampires were, how they, how this all differs from like country to country and place to place. But first we got to talk about

a little bit about like death practices and death like beliefs in these centuries because wow, things were different. Yeah, I would go as far as to say that they were probably pretty different. Yeah, like how different you say? Well, when someone, often people would die in the home, which obviously happens still. But it used to happen like a lot more back then. There was also like less places. It was just, you were just dying in your home. It's just going to happen. But when somebody died in your household, it was important to never stand at the foot of their bed because that may block their spirits entry into the next world. I kind of love that. So like, don't do it. Which I imagine people probably still practice today in some places. Yeah. A lot of people, it seems like something you would. A lot of people think like not even death related, but like sleeping that you're not supposed to sleep with your feet like with like a window at the end of your bed.

Oh, really? I didn't know that. like bad spirits. Because like bad come in. I don't know. Because like bad. Ooh ha ha. Oh, ha. Well, so you should also open all the doors and the windows when someone has passed away so that their spirit has easy passage into the next realm. They don't, you don't want them doing like the bird thing where they go, ah, and bang right into the window. You don't want that. So you open the windows so that they can just, whoop. And also might start to smell in your house. So, yeah, I mean, I, I, for practical. reasons and it's funny that you said that because the next thing I wrote in my notes was

this also to me is good for practical reasons, like allowing the smell of rotting decomp to slowly come out of the home and you're not breathing in death fumes. Like fresh air is for dead people unless there's dead people in your house in which case fresh air. Well, fresh air is for them. So open the windows. So the fresh air is indeed for the dead people. Also I almost elbowed Franklin and that's why I said, ooh, don't do that. But yeah. So, you know, you open the windows, open the doors, you don't want them running into a, you know, a glass door. No. A really clean glass door.

We all know how, you know, you love a good Windex moment. Windex is my jam. But that can be really tough for a spirit trying to get out of the world. I get it. I see it. So don't do it. They also carried corpses out feet first, out when they would bring them to the burial grounds. Because if they didn't, then the dead person would have a chance to look at your living ass.

If they're going out feet second, then they're watching you as they're leaving. Okay. So they can look at you. And if they look at you, you'll be dead in a few months' time. Wow. I mean, that's a stretch and a half. But like, yeah. I love the superstition of like the early days.

Oh, yeah. But it was all just to like explain away the fact that everyone was dying at like age 25. So it was like, oh, you got looked at by a dead person as they were bringing them out. And so you have to go feet first. You can't let them look at you. Yeah, it's like maybe we don't want it. It's just because we're like throwing our poop in the streets. Yeah, it's something to do with it.

It's like we don't understand the transmission of diseases. Probably because we don't brush our teeth two times a day. Which literally is what this episode is about is that we really didn't understand the transmission of diseases back then. Also, everything should be covered in white linen or black cloth when someone died, like everything in the home. Because chic. Everything in the house just draped in the spookiest fabric you can find because why the fuck not. Early Gothic century chic. Why not just

lean right into it? I love it. I would do it now. I'm here for it. Then there's mirrors. We all know that mirrors are a lot. Are tough. The most. Mirrors are tough. They are. We love them, but we hate them. We do. We love them because we can

we can josh the hair. Do the makes. Check if there's some lipstick on your teeth. Yeah. All that good stuff. Yeah. There's just staring them for endless hours. We hate them Because they are often otherworldly portals to a damned hellscape. Portals. That we don't understand.

To a damned hellscape. So how, here's my question. Ask away. Sometimes I do feel a little bit like I'm living in a damned hellscape occasionally from time to time. You might be the other side of the mirror. But here's the thing. I never hear about all like the portals to like, why do all the portals lead to bad places? You know what I mean?

Maybe because it's just like it's all bad. That sucks. Isn't that depressing? Yeah. Maybe it is. Or maybe, I don't know. That is bleak. Maybe it's what you make of it.

Maybe we all just assume it's a bad place. So when we go there, they're like, you want a bad place, you got a bad place. It's true. Maybe if we assume it's some kind of whimsical, like, you know, nether realm where there's fairies that are nice. Nice. Not the fay. We don't talk about them.

But like the actual like, you know. Like Tinkerbell. Yeah. Like Tinkerbell is over there. She's kind of a bitch. Yeah. Like the girls watch Tinkerbell. And I'm like.

Don't listen. Don't act like that. I'm like, get over yourself, girlfriend. When steam comes out of her ears. Yeah, she's mad. But you know, you know what I mean. Yeah, no, I do. You know, maybe there's like little goblins that are happy and we'll give you pie.

Or like it's just like a tropical beach, but it's fall time at the tropical beach, but like warm on the tropical beach. But like it's fall all at the same time. And you get to have like an apple cider drink and you get to have a pumpkin patch over there. I hate that the beach was interwoven. into this. But those are my, I like the beach, but I also like fall. This is your other portal. It is. Well, yours is literally just a spooky forest. Oh, hell yeah. A spooky forest in the fall with the graveyard nearby. Yeah. And, like, what's the best thing there? And, like, who's there? And a pumpkin patch straight ahead. And what do you get to do? I get to pick pumpkins. Yes. I get to

take hay rides. Okay. Yeah. To very, very well-produced. haunted houses. Okay. Corn mazes. Okay. Haunted, haunted hayrides. Mases. Mases.

All of that. Okay. There's apple cider donuts. Yeah, there are. There's endless ingredients for me to bake endless amounts of fall food. I love it. I think that's what's on the other side of the mirror for me. I didn't think mine through enough.

You didn't. I'll get back to you later. I think shopping, like free. Yeah. free designer clothing. That would be on your side for sure. But unfortunately, this all sounds great. Yeah. The unfortunate reality though is like portals are not good. I don't think mirrors really lead to that unfortunately, or at least we don't think they do. Yeah. So when someone dies, you got to cover that mirror. Cover that mirror. I did know that. Do that. The whole act of covering a mirror seems so fucking creepy to me.

Very spooky. Like, oh, I got to cover that shit. But then you just uncover it like when the dead person's gone? Yeah. Well, and the thing is, too, you can't just cover the mirror. Like, you can't just be like, oh, I'll do it, guys. Don't worry about it. Yeah, like I got this. The oldest person in the home has to cover the mirror. Or they have to turn the mirrors to face the wall. It has to be the oldest. For some reason, that's creepier to me. Right? Turning the mirror to face the wall. Yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, that's very weird which project of everyone. And this is, so they thought that they were fearing that the person who died could actually become trapped in the mirror because once the spirit leaves. I picture it like the spirit leaves the body, like, or this is what they're thinking

happens, and just like ping pongs around the room. And so you need to give it as many, like, just holes for it to like go whoop and through. It's like, it's like, it's like, um, like pinball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, it just goes, dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. And then like it finally hits that like open like, whoosh out the window. And also, why is the spirit so confused? Because is the spirit not just the person and the body is the vessel? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe, I mean, I imagine it's stressful, like vacating your worldly body for the next. So maybe it's just like that you're stressed and you don't understand what's going on. Yeah.

So you start ping ponging everywhere. And if a mirror is there, that's true. It's going to act like a window or a door and you're going to go through it, but you're going to go into this shitty mirror realm and you're going to be stuck there. Wow. And then I don't know how to get you out. I'm just me. I'm just Elena.

I don't know. Do you know how to get them out? I don't know how to get them out. I think thou doth protest too much. I just don't know. Well, and also, while you're doing it, this, by the way, eldest person in the house. Covering the mirrors or turning them around.

Make sure that you don't accidentally look into the mirror before this is done and see your own reflection. Honey, I am far too vain. Yeah, you would be fucked. Because some people think that means you're next. If you see your reflection in the mirror while you're turning it around. You would be dead in a few months' time because of your goddamn vanity. If you see yourself in the mirror while you're turning the mirror around.

That just seems like impossible. You just have to like look up. Like don't look. And so you got to make sure those mirrors are turned or covered and that the body is out of the home and in the ground safely before you turn them around or uncover them. Okay. You can't do it. And also, this one's interesting. I don't think this is done now, but let me know.

Sometimes they would have a family member literally inhale the last like dying breath of the dying family member. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire fucking life. Like, that's why you died next. Yeah. I mean, that's... Like, I'm dying at. Like, I don't want... Yeah.

No. It's like that in the same. I love you so much, but I would literally never. Like, I'm good. I'll watch it and I'll cry about it. I'll watch it. I'll cry about it. I'm not going to eat it.

I'm going to eat your dying breath. I'm also not going to... It's okay. It's not a cuisine. I'm looking to taste. Not a cuisine. Not a kid's cuisine. No.

I'm excited. For like death rattle cuisine is not in the freezer section of your local grocery store. But now almost every mention, and I say I say all this because during that time, a lot of people were dying of a lot of different things. You don't say. And so people were dying all over the place, oftentimes at a young age. And so people needed reasons. They, you know, medical technology was not advanced.

medicine was really not telling you like here's what a germ is, here's what a bacteria is, here's what a virus is. So they were just looking for anything that could explain what the hell was happening around them and why people were just kicking it at an alarming rate, usually in families. Yeah. So now almost every mention of a vampire panic that happened, because they happened all over the place. I definitely want to revisit this again because there's so many, I could have gone on for hours and hours. It's so crazy to me. Now when you see a vampire panic mentioned, especially in New England at this time, it's usually because there was a massive consumption outbreak.

Consumption is in tuberculosis, but they didn't know it as tuberculosis back then. They called it consumption, and they called that because it literally consumes the sufferer. And if you didn't know what it was, you would just be watching someone become consumed by this disease, so they call it consumption. Now, obviously, we know it as tuberculosis. At the time, it was also called the Great White Plague, because it made its sufferers unbelievably pale. Ooh, like us. Like us.

It was a very big deal in New England and elsewhere, but I'm concentrating on New England, obviously. We know a lot about it now. It's an infectious bacterial disease. It attacks the lungs. It really came to play in New England in the 1730s. Health officials in New England started recording mortality rates. in the area in 1786 for the disease. And between 1786 and 1800, so 14 years, 2% of the population of New England had died of consumption. Wow. 2%. That's like a lot.

I was going to say in New England. Exactly. The disease itself is horrific. Yeah. It caused a crazy hacking cough. Blood would spew out constantly each time you coughed eventually. there was debilitating pain involved, a punishing fever, extreme exhaustion. It would start with like a little blood each time and then eventually you would be like straight up vomiting blood. Oh my God, that's like I can't even handle that. Now the person who was infected would also lose all color and seemingly waste away. And it was kind of like a slow end usually.

It sounds like it. Yeah, it often was slow because they wouldn't be able to eat. Right. Like they would just literally waste away. They didn't want to eat. And they couldn't eat. And they're just vomiting a blood. Yeah, and it literally seemed to most people at the time that something, like some unseen force

was violently sucking the life out of their loved ones, and they were just powerless to stop it. And if you think about it, they're pale. You're walking into their room and they have blood dripping down the sides of their mouths. They are, you know, they're doing these hacking cops. They're probably awake at night. They're probably doing, it's like sounds like a vampire to me. Yeah? Like, because they were known to like all the time have blood. blood just like dripping down from the sides of their mouths. Isn't that so crazy that people were like, well, well, got to be that. And but on top of all this is the fact that entire families would just be wiped out from this. So once one of them got it, it was like a ticking time bomb to see if it

attacked the other family members in the house. And at this point, disease itself was just not understood. Right, not at all. Consumption, what they were understanding it was, did not understand that at all. they didn't understand transmission in the slightest. They didn't know that this was something you could pass to somebody else. They weren't wearing and they masks. So they would just be everyone hanging out together. And if someone had it, they were not like quarantined from the rest of the family. Like, no, they were hacking in your face at breakfast and sleeping in the same room with 14 brothers and sisters just spewing all over each other.

No, no, no. That's not the way to take care of that. It's called quarantine, baby. And that's the thing. So they didn't understand that that was such. they would just live life. So they didn't understand it. So it would just go through the entire home and they were like, what's happening?

Must be the devil. Must be a vampire. And cures, obviously, were not like what we have today. Not at all. So cures, they came up with things like drinking brown sugar and water. I mean, sounds really sweet. And my personal favorite, frequent horseback riding. To shake the devil out of you?

No. It was because it'll... No. No, because it was allowing the patient to have fresh air, which, but it was fresh air that you were not having to become out of breath to get because you were sitting on a horse. Okay. So the horse was giving you the fresh air. I guess they tried. You could get on that horse, go riding through the country, hacking up blood.

Go spread your tuberculosis everywhere. Just spew all those, you know, tuberculosis little balls everywhere. Just spread it around like wildfire. But you're sucking in that fresh colonial air as you do it. And in 1692, a doctor named Dr. Thomas Sidenham published this about this cure that he had found, because he came out and was like, you got to ride a horse. I got this. He said, quote, but the best remedy hitherto discovered in this case is riding sufficiently long journeys on horseback. Provide this exercise be long enough continued, observing that the middle-aged person must persist in it much longer than children or young persons.

So if you old, get on that horse. horse and you got to start riding and don't stop riding. But if you're a child, you can ride for a little bit and then get off. What's that song about like Mustang Sally? Mustang Sally. But yeah, get on your horse and start riding through the country. Get on your high horse. That's going to help you out. Get your tuberculosis out of here. I mean, at the time and even later with tuberculosis patients, fresh air was like a huge thing. Yeah, we said that in the Eastern State Penitentiary, they had special cells designed. Open air cells. And they would like, tuberculosis wards, they would have beds that the head of the bed would be

outside. And there would be like an awning over you to like protect you from the weather. But your head would just be hanging outside. Wow. Yeah. It is interesting like what they tried to do. And you can see the logic in some of it. The wheels were turning. They were. They were turning. They were getting a lot of gas. They knew it was lungs. They knew they were like, they were on the right path, you know? Yeah. We all got to get there. It's going to take a while. Yeah. But they were also, this was also really heavily into the period of time when doctors would just like bleed people. Oh yeah. Like you have a cold, let's cut you. You have a headache, let's cut you. You want to dance with the devil in the pale moonlight? Let's cut you. Let's do it. Like they was just, we're going to cut you. That's what we're going to do. Bitch, I'll cut you. Hi. I have a hang now. Let's cut you and see what happens. Let's do it. They just hemorrhaged out everybody. I don't know why that was the, it was just the blood.

They were like, we know blood's important. We're sure of that. And it is. And they were right. But let's not get rid of it. But they were like, I feel like if we just cut you open and just drain a ton of it out of you, we'll figure it out. I don't know. They were wrong.

But they were? So a lot of tuberculosis patients and consumption patients would just be, that's the same thing. I don't know why I just said it as like two different diseases. Well, they knew it as consumption. We know it as tuberculosis. Yeah, you're just clarifying. Just clarifying. But a lot of them would be like bled.

Just like, I think like George Washington was bled when he had a cold and he got in, and he literally would have lived. He didn't need to be bled, right? No, who does? Who really needs to be bled? Not me. No. Eventually, it became a belief that the first one who died was going to return at night to suck the life out of the remaining family members. Obviously.

Because they were like, obviously, if it's just knocking everybody down in a row, that first one that did it, the whole thing wasn't that like that person was. was evil per se. It was that some evil entity was using their body as a host. Okay. Okay. That was the idea. I, for the most part, I'm sure some people thought their family members were evil. I'm sure we all have family members. That we'd be like, I think they are the evil entity. I don't think they're the host. I think it's them. Yeah. Now, so they were like, okay, we should just like start digging up graves to like figure this out. We got to dig up the corpse. Again, obvious. Because the corpses are coming out of their graves at night. So let's see what's, What's the haps underground here?

What is the 411? What's the 411 underground? What is the 411? What's the hot goss from the cemetery? So it was a very common practice to exhum bodies at this time just to be like, have they moved? What's going on in there? Like maybe. No.

So they were like, they are becoming soldiers after death. We need to figure out who patient zero is basically in each family. Right. Because remember, back then it's not like they're getting their news from like medical journals or like the news. No. They're getting them from local taverns. Yeah. And people popping into local taverns and being like, have you heard the word from purred? He said that if you bleed this person out after exhuming their body, like, it's ridiculous. And apparently in New England, taverns were like everywhere, which is not shocking to me. They still are at this moment. They were very popular. They were very popular. And still are. Pretty famous dude, like, infamous. this dude named Cotton Mather, I think a lot of New Englanders know this man. I've heard him. He was quoted as saying in the late 1600s that every other house in Boston was one of these

quote unquote public houses. Now, people told all of their hot goss and any intel about their travels or things happening around them in these taverns. So it's kind, it becomes more obvious how some serious shit could be stirred this way. Oh, yeah. And make everyone think these crazy cures are going to work, you know, for your vampirial. afflicted family member. Well, and you're probably desperate, so you're like, please help me a vampiric afflicted family

member. Because you just want your family members to stop dying of the horrific disease. So you're like, if you're telling me that it's a vampire and I have to burn the, like, person in the ground, I'll do anything. And the taverns would be near meeting houses or sometimes act as the meeting houses of the time. Wow. So they were like really, I mean, food and drink, baby.

I'm saying they would also definitely always be near the whipping posts, the gallows or the stocks because all of those things like really bring in thirsty customers. Central points in town. It's just good like, it's just good planning. It is. It's architecturally genius. So to stop this whole consumption thing from taking over entire families, often they would exhume the corpse of the first infected.

And this could happen just with family members present, with family and neighbors who knew the deceased, or sometimes it would raise the attention of like, you know, the town elders and the clergymen and shit. and they would all vote on it and it became a whole shebang and like everyone would come in. Yeah. They would like vote to be like, yeah, we should exhume Henry over there and see if everyone's a vampire. Say aye. Let's do this.

Now, the whole idea was you take the person out, you check their heart and vital organs and see if there's fresh blood in there. Mainly, I guess they were looking for bright red blood as opposed to like congealed darker blood because that would be old blood. Right. If there was fresh blood, you had yourself a vampire, and you better put a stop to this. It's weird that we were talking about fresh blood, or excuse me, it's weird that we're talking about fresh blood, and we talked about the jinks.

The jinks and that theme song. The eels. It's great. So good. Sorry. Fresh blood, good theme song. That's how my brain works. It's a great song.

Now, because according to an article published in 1896, in the American anthropologist, it was by George R. Stetson. It says, quote, in New England, the vampire superstition is unknown by, its proper name. It is there believed that consumption is not a physical but a spiritual disease, obsession or visitation, that as long as the body of a dead consumptive relative has blood in its heart, it is proof that an occult influence steals from it for death, and is at work draining the blood of the living into the heart of the dead and causing his rapid decline. In some places, the specter appears as in the flesh, walks, talks, infest villages,

ill uses both men and beasts, sucks the blood of their near relations, makes them ill, and finally causes their death. The late, moncho de vestment. Are you using Babel too? I am. You could tell, right? That was really good. Wow, good job. Monsot de Vesempsom. Counselor of the chamber of the courts of bar was informed by public report in Monravia that it was a common enough in that country to see men who had died sometime before, quote, present themselves at a party and sit down to table with persons of their acquaintances without saying a word and nodding to one of the party. The one indicated would infallibly die after some days. Who made that up?

I feel like, I feel like that's hearsay, but I don't know. Was Anne Putnam here? I believe she was. She was around. It says about 1735 on the frontier of Hungary, a dead person appeared after, now this is in an article. like the American anthropologist, what I'm reading from right now. This is not like somebody being like, let me tell you legends. This is not a blog.

So about 1735 on the frontier of Hungary, a dead person appeared after 10 years burial and caused the death of his father. In 1730, in Turkish Serbia, it was believed that those who had been passive vampires during life became active after death. In Russia, that the vampire does not stop his unwelcome visits at a single member of the family, but it extends his visits to the last member, which is the Rhode Island belief as well. In the same village resides Mr. Redacted. It's Redacted.

Mr. Vampire. An intelligent man by Trada Mason. I feel like his name was probably like Mr. Mason. They're like, by Trayda Mason. I'm like, you gave it away. That's it. I love it. Who is a living witness of the superstition and of the efficacy of the treatment of the dead,

which it prescribes. He informed me that he had lost two brothers by. consumption. Upon the attack of the second brother, his father was advised by Mr. Redacted, the head of the family before mentioned, to take up the first body and burn its heart. But the brother attacked, but the brother attacked objected to the sacrilege and in consequence subsequently died. When he was attacked by the disease in his turn, Redacted's advice prevailed. And the body of the brother last dead was exhumed in living blood being found in the heart and in circulation. It was cremated, and the sufferer began immediately to mend, and stood before me in hail, hearty, and

vigorous man of fifty years. When questioned as to his understanding of the miraculous influence, he could suggest nothing, and did not recognize the superstition even by name. He remembered that the doctors did not believe in its efficacy, but he and many others did. His father saw the brother's body and the arterial blood. The attitude of several other persons in regard to the practice was agnostic, either from fear of public opinion or other reasons. And the replies to my inquiries were in the same temper of mind as that of a blind man in the gospel of St. John, who did not dare to express his belief, but answered and said whether he was a sinner or no, I know not.

One thing I know, that whereas I was blind, now I see. So poetic at the end, but like all the way through, I'm like, you're really, he got literally at the end. So this is stuff, that is like to really show you that this is stuff that people, People were taking seriously. Yeah. These are stories that people were like, this happened. People were mended because of this.

Like, consumption was gone because we burned the heart of the first person to die in the family. I just can't imagine living during this time. It would have been a wild, wild time to live during. And apparently in Maine and in Massachusetts, mainly Plymouth, they would just open the graves and flip the corpse over on its face. Oh. They were like, that'll take care of it. They felt good about that.

Interesting. I love that they're like, you know what, we're not going to do too much. Like keep it simple, stupid. Exactly. Like kiss. All right. It's just let's, let's chill. Let's keep this casual. Let's just, whoop, flip it over and then he can't get out now. How would he get out? How would they get out? How would they get out? How would they know? How would they know? And apparently it worked for us. So. And that was it? Massachusetts out here doing the best. Like flip them over on their face and just slayed a harbinger of evil today. I had a big day at work today. Toss to get a dead guy right around and, you know, just lifting lives day by day. Just saving everybody from death. Cook me up a soup. Well, in Connecticut, Vermont, and Rhode Island, though, they got like real gnarly with it. Connecticut, Vermont, Rhode Island, you were very metal back then.

Weird that Massachusetts wasn't. Yeah, I think Massachusetts at the time was like, hi, we had that whole Salem fails. We got real gnarly with it. So like it's your turn now. Yeah, like we're actually very tired. We just took our, a little nap. Day off. During this time. They were like, we're just going to flip dead people over. We're not going to do anything sacrilegious to them.

We're just going to. Don't worry. We'll be back at it. We're going to let Connecticut, Vermont, and Rhode Island take care of this right now. It's fine. So first in Rhode Island, vampires were thought to only be women and only between the ages of 15 and 22. Oh, we're in the clear. That's such a random-ass age range.

Like, what Rhode Island? What? 15 and 22. on your 23rd birthday, you are safe, BB. You're good. And everywhere else, it was not age or gender-specific. It was just Rhode Island. So I thought that.

In Connecticut, Vermont, and Rhode Island as well, they would exhume the person. This is when they would check for the fresh blood and the heart. If so, they would cut out the heart, burn the heart. And sometimes they would even use the fumes and smoke from the smoldering heart as a cure. Oh? They would also have people inhale the smoke from the burning tuberculosis heart, because I thought that would aid in saying healthy. I'm willing to bet that it probably didn't.

Yikes. Yeah. No. Not good. That's a wicked bad idea. Wicked bad idea, Ken. That's a wicked bad idea. Not too.

Sometimes, though, they would be plagued with this vampire curse for years as it just mowed down family member after family member. And they would not discover what they believed was the cause for those years. Yeah. So sometimes when they would be plagued. they finally found who they believed to be the origin of the vampire activity, they would be dead for so long that there was no heart left to take out. Yeah. I was wondering when they were going to run into that.

Yeah. And we'll see what happens when there's no heart to take out later on. Oh, I feel like it's going to be wild. And by later on, I mean, we're going to find it out in the next case. So the next case comes from Griswold, Connecticut. we are going to start this kind of recently in 1990. Oh, okay. More recent than the 1700s at least. Yeah. 1990 to me still feels like 10 years ago, so I don't understand time. Oh, no. Like I was saying like, oh, okay, like, wow, we're starting there. But like that sounds recent to me. Yeah. Recent enough.

Well, in 1990, three boys were playing outside. And now it was 1990s. So they were not like scooting around on a hoverboard or like playing games where you have to like use technology. They were outside. like a Pokemon or some shit. Like they were playing in a sand and gravel pit in the town because... Yeah, that's what you did. Fun. Like, good wholesome fun. Because sandlot.

Yeah. While they are... Because sandlot. Because sandlot. Those aren't the same thing. No, I know, but like sand. It's like sandlot. It made me think of it.

Yeah. Sandlot. A baseball field, a gravel pit. Yeah, sandlot. Honestly, some baseball fields felt like gravel pits. Because holes. Because of dirt. Don't hurt.

Doesn't. Now, while they're playing, suddenly a very old-looking human skull just starts rolling down the hill next to them. Yippie Kaye. Like just bloop, blue, blue. Hey, boys. Like seemingly disturbed from the earth by their playing.

So it had just rolled out of its burial spot and was just like hanging out with them. That'll change you. Luckily, it certainly will. Luckily, they ran home and were like, Mom, dad. Help. And the parents contacted authorities, so everybody did what they were supposed to do here.

Good, good. And at first, the authorities were like, well, shit. This must be a serial killer at work. Like, we found graves. This is bad. Yeah. Because, and they thought this, because another skull popped out of the earth as well while they were looking for this other one.

So, like, that makes sense. Two skulls rolling down the hill. Yeah, right. Whoa. You're like, oh, shit. What's going on here? And at the time, it's important to note that a serial killer had just been caught in the area. Oh.

His name was Michael. Ross and he brutally raped and killed at least eight girls and women between the ages of 14 and 25. He did this between the years of 1981 and 1984. Wow. So they were thinking, or maybe this is just victims we don't know about, or it's a new serial killer because now they're like, well, we now know they're serial killers. So. But when they started looking at these skulls, they were like, these are like way older.

Like these are not recent skills. So they called in the state archaeologist named Nick Bellatone. and he came in to take a look. He was like, yep, these are old as fuck. And definitely not to work. He's like, can confirm those are old. And he said these are not the work of a modern day serial killer. When they dug a bit further, he came to the conclusion that this sand and gravel pit was

actually on top of an old family cemetery. Okay. Later, it was identified as the Walton family cemetery from the 1800s. There were 29 graves. Wow. Seven men, eight women, and 14 children were present. And they now had to be moved, like, carefully and respectfully. Yeah.

Now, at the time of their deaths, these women, men, and children were all put in pretty plain wood coffins, as was common at the time. Right. Once they got to, so they're looking through these coffins. They're just, like, trying to identify people, trying to see how many, like, women and children they have. Yeah. Once they got to the fourth coffin that they were looking at, though, it was marked. And they were like, that's strange. And it was strangely marked.

Uh-oh. It had brass tacks, like drilled into the top of it, and the tax spelled out J.B. 55. Okay. And they were like, that's weird on like the lid of a coffin. Why is this the only person labeled? So they opened it up. And they don't find a skeleton just lying there. Oh, God.

They find a partially disarticulated skeleton, like intentionally disarticulated. Oh, man. The skull had been literally cut off the neck and placed on the chest. And under it was under it also on the chest were the man's two femurs. They had been placed in the arrangement of a cross with the skull on top of them. They also found broken ribs and evidence of lesions of the ribs that was indicative that this person probably died of consumption. Right. Or at least had consumption.

Right. Which they died of it. So obviously, they had hacked this guy's head off in an attempt to stop him from coming back as a vampire and killing the rest of the family. What? His chest was obviously cut into as well. And they said they believed that they went into his chest to find his. heart. And when they couldn't find his heart because he had been gone for too long, that's when they took his femurs off and his head off. And they put it in that cross pattern to, to like do what they

could. That is bananas. And after inspection, they believed he was likely dug up about four or five years after his initial death because the family was probably going through trying to figure out who the initial person was. Right. And like I said, they couldn't find the heart. So that's why they did this. Now his bones were sent to the National Museum of Health and Medicine in Silver Springs, Maryland, and they were able to get some DNA from the thigh bone. We love the DNA test. It wasn't until recently, though, that they could actually take that DNA and do anything with it because it was in 1990. They were like, we can do a little with it, but now we can really do stuff.

Now they used Y-chromosomal DNA profiling and genealogy surname prediction methods, and they figured out his last name was Barber. they were able to find what his last name was. I didn't even know that that was a thing. Genealogyal say it again? Genealogy surname prediction methods. I didn't even know that was a thing. And why chromosomal DNA profiling is pretty cool.

It's basically like a method of DNA typing that allows you to look at the patrilineal strands of DNA. So the ones that go into the father's ancestry, which helps with the surname thing, especially for bones long since deceased. because, you know, why DNA chromosomes are passed down from father to son and they're basically unchanged as they pass. So this, they use this information to search for barbers who lived in the area. Right. Because, you know, at the time, obviously everyone's surnames are important, especially back then.

Yeah. Like back then surnames. Everything. The identifier. So once they were able to trace that DNA, that Y chromosome back to that surname, that's when they started searching in Connecticut for barbers who had died at the time that the age were aged to. And they ended up finding a farmer named John Barber, J.B. And he had died in Griswold, and he was about 55 years old. Okay, so whoop, there it is. So they also found an obituary from

1826 for a 12-year-old named Nicholas Barber. And his father, John Barber, was included in that. Ah, upon further inspection, a coffin with the initials NB13 was also found. Oh, so that totally confirms it. And it was near John Barber's. So only John's was the way it was arranged like that. Right. And the position of the body was totally different from everyone else's. Like it just everyone else was in that normal burial position, hands over the chest or by the sides.

Yeah. So he was buried but exhumed when further family member. were definitely suffering from consumption like Nicholas. Right. And so they did what they had been told to do, which like, because when you see this, you're like, what the fuck? Like, you hacked the head off of a corpse. What are you doing? Yeah. But they were told to do this. Like, they were confronted with what they were told was vampiric activity. And it was like that was killing children. Crazy to say, but it was the norm. Like they, they were told this is what is happening. So that's like what you do. And when you don't know any better, you have no kind of science. And it was like,

to back anything up. So it's like you're just going off of, yeah. Like obviously for us, it sounds fucking crazy. But if we had lived back then, we would have been doing this shit. Yeah, that's what you were told to do. And when no heart was found, this is all they knew to do was you got to put it in the sign of the cross and put his head on top of it and you'll be fine. Call it a day. It's crazy. So a little side note about consumption too, because this is why it can be very difficult for people to trace it. There are different ways in which it can present in different people. Some people are asymptomatic, and it's called latent TB infection. They carry the disease, but they can't pass it until it turns active. So they're not passing into people while it's latent.

They show no symptoms themselves. Other people have it for years sometimes, and they struggle and like slowly succumb to it. I didn't know that. Yeah. And others have what is known as the galloping variety, and this can either be a latent TB infection that suddenly becomes active and goes like. hard and fast. Or it's just one that comes on quick. And it's quick. It's merciless. And it's like fast and it takes you down to the end just as fast. Like boom. That's why it's like galloping. Right, right. Folkloreist Michael Bell is known to be one of the leading researchers on this vampire panic that occurred. And I read in one of his interviews that people also believe Edgar Allen Poe had the asymptomatic type of TB. Why? Which definitely could have been true because he was

He was around a lot of... Yeah, he was around a lot of active TB suffers. Right. His mother being the first one, who died of consumption when he was only three years old. That's so sad. His wife later, like all, you know, his wife died of it. His, like, everybody around him was dying of TV. And in fact, Poe wrote a story you may all know called The Mask of the Red Death.

Yes. I love this story. That's a good one. It's such a good Post story. It's one of my favorites. It was about a plague-consuming society. And mostly starting to eat away at the poorest and least fortunate in society. Right.

And the plague makes you feel intense pain and bleed from the pores, which sounds a lot like an artistic rendering of consumption to me. It really does. And eventually, the richer in society begin to fear that it will leap the bounds of class and come for them as well. So they think they can use their privileged status to hide away and wait it out till it's gone. They don't actually care about those people suffering in the shadows.

They just want to escape it themselves. Right. And the character, Prince Prospero, decides to quarantine in his, like, giant mansion. But he makes it glamorous, like quarantine, but make it glamorous. Quarantine, glam. By throwing a lavish party for everyone hiding away, like, all these, like, nobles. And he hides himself away in, like, a thousand other fancy noble guests in his fortress. And at one point, there's, like, all these rooms in the story where, like, all, it's all these different, like, lit rooms.

It's really cool. It sounds like a cool party until the end. But until the end. That's usually how most parties are. And Dan, Dan really fucks it up. At one point, they notice a figure standing there in a funeral shroud that's like blood spattered. And they're wearing a mask. And they don't know who this figure is.

And they all just kind of like follow it from room to room while the prince is like holding a dagger and acts like he can fight this thing. You can't. And eventually the figure is cornered and it turns to face the prince. And the prince just sees it and falls down dead in his tracks. And when the rest of the revelers, like, you know, unmask the figure, there's nothing underneath. Isn't that so creepy? And everyone just falls down and dies of the plague. It's wild. And the last line of the story is, and darkness and decay and the red death held illimitable

dominion overall. And I think that's so rad. I just fucking love Po. You do. Oh, I fucking love Poe. It's such a good one. And it's so relevant. It's, I mean, when you, when you think of that, it's really relevant today. Of course it is. With what's going on, which is very interesting. It's also very relevant with consumption. And considering Poe was surrounded by the disease's whole life, it was definitely about that, in my opinion. I mean, yeah.

It's also a really strong allegory for the fact that, like, no one escapes death, not even the rich, which is another thing that is very relevant right now with what's going on. Like, no one can escape it. Right. You're not safe from it. Right. Rich, poor, everything in between. It's not discriminatory. Just saying.

So that's interesting. But either way, speaking of Griswold, Connecticut, now that we've talked about John Baker, there is a gnarly case of vampire mania that hails from the village of Jewett City, which is inside the town of Griswold. Okay. On March 9, 1845, a family started to fall to the plague of consumption. On that day, 24-year-old Lemuel Billings Ray passed away from consumption. He was the son of Lucy and Henry B. Ray. By July 3rd, 1849, his father, Henry B. Ray, had died of consumption as well.

His brother, who was 26 years old, Alicia Ray, died of that on February 1st, 1851, and soon more family members were all falling ill to consumption. And finally, they were like, wait a second, it's got to be ghouls. Obvi, must be ghouls. So in 1854, another son. Henry Nelson Ray was coming down with it, and he was starting to waste away. And seemingly to them, by the hands of an unseen force that was just sucking the life right out of him. So that unseen force was germs. But they went with the Boulder choice, which is vampire.

Germs, vampire, same thing. It's germs. Like, the answer is germs, but they went with vampire. Multiple choice. Pix C germs. They went with vampire today. So they did what everyone else was doing at the time. It was in vogue to exhum recent victims of consumption and see if there was fresh blood in their heart.

Yeah. So if there was, you got yourself a vampire, you got to get rid of that organ or the entire corpse itself to break the curse of consumption or the surviving family members are all just going to keep dying. So they dug up Lemuel, Henry, and Alicia. And Alicia was said to have fresh blood in the corpse's heart. I mean, they were also the last one to die, so the corpse was the freshest. I don't know, Elena, could be. Vampires. Could be. And I don't know about fresh blood, but like, who am I to argue? I wasn't there.

Yeah. Like, I was not present at this exhumation. I was only two. I'm just kidding. I wasn't. I was like, I feel like I heard the date wrong. It was in the 1840s. I was only two. I was just being mean to myself. But so they figured Henry could go back, you know, into his otherworldly home because they were like, he's probably good. That's fine. But Alicia and Lemuel had to go. They were like, no, I feel it in both of you. So you're going. Lemuel for good measure, I suppose, because like, He didn't have any heart. Right. Yeah, let's get rid of him too. So they burned them in their coffins, essentially just like cremating their remains.

But they did it in a huge bonfire on site, which was spooky and ominous. Yeah, you don't say. You know, that would do the trick. And I guess you can find the site of this graveyard. This graveyard is still there. The site of the bonfire is still there. That's interesting. Yeah.

So they figured that was going to do the trick. But it didn't. It didn't. It didn't. Henry Nelson Ray died the same year. very soon after. And his wife and three children also died of consumption. Oh, that's so sad.

It did not do it. This made the papers because of like the whole bonfire thing go off. And they were referred to and still are referred to as the Jewett City vampires. Wow. It's like what a name to get after. Like still are referred to? Yeah. Maybe we should stop.

It's like such a metal nickname. Maybe we should recognize what actually happened. Exactly. But you know what? None of us are there. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what they found. I don't know. Now that brings us to the case, which some people may know, Mercy Lena Brown. It does sound familiar. In 1883, George T. Brown was a respected farmer

in the town of Exeter, Rhode Island. Exeter. Exeter. His wife, Mary Eliza, died of consumption that year in 1883. Seven months after she died, their daughter, Mary, Olive died of consumption as well. She was only 20. shortly after that his son Edwin was showing signs of consumption because they were probably all eating at the same kitchen table yes he was a pan he was like pale didn't want to eat anything was getting that hacking cough they actually sent Edwin to Colorado for a while to see if they could get better air which like okay they hoped it would make him better and he you know he just got worse I've definitely heard this he got worse he came back home meanwhile while this is going on neighbors have been talking to Farmer Brown and the

local doctor, which was a man named Dr. Metcalf. And he had heard that a few of them wanted Farmer Brown to have his wife and daughter Mary Olive exhumed to see if there was fresh blood in their hearts. If there was, then it was likely that they were sucking the life out of Edwin, and that was the reason for his suffering. So he thought this was nuts. They weren't going to be burning hearts or anything. He was like, no. But he was like, you know what? They just kept coming at me. The neighbors, like, won't shut up about it. I'm starting to think it might be real. And either that or he was, maybe he was believing it and he was like a bit embarrassed to admit it. Yeah, sure.

But either way, he said he just gave in. They were starting to sway him. Somebody was swaying him. And this is when Edwin was sent to Colorado to try that last ditch effort to get him better. And while he was there, their other daughter, 19-year-old Mercy Lena Brown, was showing signs of becoming very ill with consumption as well. Of course. She progressed very quickly. Like, she clearly had the galloping kind.

I was just going to say that. And she died and was buried in January 1892. Also, before she died, a doctor came to her bedside to try to perform some kind of aid on her or like comfort her symptoms. And he just looked at Mercy and was like, yeah, sorry, she's at the end. Like, there's nothing we can do. Don't even try. Awesome. Like, way harsh, Ty.

Thanks, Doc. Like, that's like, wow. Way harsh, dog. So now Farmer Brown is ready to do this. He's like, okay, now that Mercy has died, like, he's got no one left. He's a believer. So he calls the doctor and says he would like them exhumed, and he would like this doctor to perform an autopsy to see if there is fresh blood somewhere. So the doctor shows up at Shrubb Hill Cemetery on March 17, 1892, and they've already exhumed the bodies of the wife and Mary Olive.

Both of them were dead for a while and were basically just skeletons. Their hearts were not filled with blood and likely maybe not even there still. Yeah, I was wondering if they would even be there. At least in Mary Eliza's case, the mother, I don't think. cars was there. Right. Now, Mercy Lena had been buried for only two months and it was cold. Yeah. So she was not too bad, in bad condition. She was kind of preserved in a way. I was going to say what she like slightly mummified. Yeah, a little bit. So they removed her heart and liver. And reports say there was fresh blood in her heart, while other reports from the scene say that

there was like normal old congealed blood. So there was blood. The results vary. We know there was blood. It should be noted also that Farmer Brown was not present at this exhumation and ritual, but there is nothing to say he didn't give his blessing. I just didn't want to be there, and I kind of get that. I 100% get that. Either way, they removed them, the liver and the heart, and took them to a rock nearby. Surrounding the rock, the liver and heart were burned to ashes. Okay. Once they were reduced to ash, they took some of the ashes and forced Edwin to eat them. So that probably made him worse. They felt this would cure him of his melody.

Probably not. But two months later, Edwin died of consumption. Oh, man, another two months of that. Two months. Just like horrible illness. After you ate the ashes of your dead sister's heart and liver. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, interestingly, this news went way further than New England. And in 1896, and that's the last story. I'm going to tell about it, but I just needed to end on this because it was interesting. In 1896, there was an article about this that Bram Stoker, had read this article. I don't know if you know Bram Stoker. Who? Whomst is that? He was touring in the US with his stage company at the time, and he had not yet finished Dracula. It came out in 1897, so the following year. Some people think this was the inspiration behind that, because there are a lot of similarities between the illness and death of Mercy Lena and Lucy and Dracula. But that's a no,

and I'm here to tell you, that's a no. You're like, it's not true. You heard it here. I read in several sources that it took him upwards of seven years for him to write Dracula. So the timeline doesn't add up. And he said it, he was like, no. But who knows if maybe the story could have added, like, flavor to the already written manuscript? Like, he could have added a little bit of, like, juzh. Flair. Like, ooh, like, maybe he added some of the, like, little details in there.

I don't know. Maybe. There's nothing to say that. But either way, the vampire panic of New England is so much further reaching than this. There's, I mean, a million other things, like stories about this. But I think the Mercy Brown one is the one that a lot of people hear. Yeah. Again, you can like see these gravestones.

You can see these people really existed. The timelines add up. There's old newspaper articles to confirm all these. I read a bunch of different books about them that I'll link here because they were fascinating. Oh, my God. Elena was showing me her Kindle Library the other day. And I was like, it's so funny too because it's all these fucking terrifying books. And then it's like, Vampirina.

Yeah, literally. And the tale of the chef. And then it's like, bad seed plays with new friends. Yeah. It's just funny. I love it so much. It's amazing. My Kindle is a real, it's a real chaotic journey.

It's a real dichotomy. It's a real chaotic journey through my life. Through my life. But I think I had like four books on this that I just could not stop reading. Yeah, because you were like, I read this one. Oh, and then I found this one. And then there was also this one. I found another one.

Okay. I was like, all right. I was like, how long is this episode about to be? I was like, not too bad. I decided I was going to keep it to only a few cases, but I definitely want to read this at this. It's real fascinating. So this might be like vampire panic of New England part one. Or like volume one. And like, yeah, I was going to say like a spooky roads kind of vibe. Yeah, later on down the line, I'll throw another one into it. I like it. I like it a lot. But yeah, I hope you guys thought that was interesting. I thought it was a fun, like spooky journey.

And learning about consumption was like weirdly interesting. It is. It's like very fascinating to learn about. Franklin gives this five paws. I love that. I mean, five whole paws. I don't know. He's only got four, but he'll give an extra one. Four beans. He gives it a lot of props.

I appreciate it. Yeah. Meow. All right. Well, this was super fun. I liked us a lot. See, I had to bring it to like a fun space. Yeah, I needed that.

I needed to sit here and not be like, I mean, I was horrified still. I was going to say, I mean, consumption is not fun. It was different. Like, it wasn't like. A different thing. Yeah. You know, it wasn't like, well, it was still brutal. sunset strips layers or the hillside stranglers. Correct. That's all that matters. Anyways,

we hope that you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. Everyone not to swear that when your family member's dying, you stand over them and you inhale their last breath because I think somebody might find that weird and I think you probably might get sick. So definitely don't do that. Thanks. Okay, bye.