Morbid - H.H. Holmes Part 5

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

In the final chapter of our coverage of H.H.Holmes, we talk about the theories connecting him to Jack the Ripper, his final days on the run and a trial and execution that has gone down in history. Thank you to Dave White for research assistance.ReferencesBoston Daily Globe. 1895. "At Burlington." Boston Daily Globe, August 8: 7.—. 1894. "Believes husband dead." Boston Daily Globe, November 20: 1.—. 1894. "Believes husband dead." Boston Daily Globe, November 20: 1.—. 1895. "Hard and Selfish." Boston Daily Globe, August 7: 5.—. 1894. "In the toils." Boston Daily Globe, November 18: 1.—. 1895. "Mother's Love." Boston Daily Globe, August 6: 5.Chicago Chronicle. 1895. "Tells of one crime." Chicago Chronicle, July 30: 2.—. 1895. "Trail of the fiend." Chicago Chronicle, July 21: 1.Chicago Tribune. 1894. "Spins his own web." Chacgo Tribune, November 22: 1.—. 1895. "Holmes recognized in Toronto." Chcago Tribune, July 17: 12.Daily Boston Globe. 1895. "Good Fisherman." Daily Boston Globe, August 9: 4.Galveston Daily News. 1894. "Two Texas Girls." Galveston Daily News, November 22: 1.Geyer, Frank P. 1896. The Holmes-Pitezel Case: A History of the Greatest Crime of the Century and of the Search for the Missing Pitezel Children. Philadelphia, PA: Publishers' Union.Kerns, Rebecca, Tiffany Lewis, and Cailtin McClure. 2012. Herman Webster Mudgett: Dr. H.H. Holmes or Beast of Chicago. Lecture, Radford, VA: Department of Psychology, Radford University.Larson, Erik. 2003. Devil in the White City: Murder, Magic, and Madness at the Fair that Changed America. New York, NY: Crown Publishers.Mudgett, Herman W. 1895. Holmes' Own Story. Philadelphia, PA: Burke and McFetridge Company.New York Times. 1895. "A boy Holmes' first victim." New York Times, July 31: 3.—. 1896. "Appeal of murderer Holmes." New York Times, February 4: 8.—. 1895. "Claims an alibi." New York Times, July 17: 1.—. 1896. "Holmes cool to the end." New York Times, May 8: 1.—. 1895. "Holmes enters a plea of guilty." New York Times, May 29: 1.—. 1896. "Holmes in a ton of cement." New York Times, May 9: 1.—. 1895. "Holmes sentenced to die." New York Times, December 1: 13.—. 1894. "May be charged with murder." New York Times, November 19: 2.—. 1895. "The Williams girls' fate." New York Times, July 21: 10.Philadelphia Inquirer. 1894. "Cause of death a mystery." Philadelphia Inquirer, September 6: 6.—. 1896. "Holmes' chronology." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 12: 18.—. 1896. "Holmes Confesses 27 murders." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 26: 1.Philadelphia Times. 1894. "All looking for Pitezel." Philadelphia Times, November 21: 1.—. 1894. "Perry's Peculiar Death." Philadelphia Times, September 5: 3.Selzer, Adam. 2017. H.H. Holmes: The True History of the White City Devil. New York, NY: Skyhorse Publishing.St. Louis Post-Dispatch. 1894. "Arrested Again." St. Louis Post-Dispatch, July 29: 8. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. Morbid. Mini, mini, mini, mini, mini, mini, mini, morbid. Mini morbid, mini morbid. It's our quote-unquote mini morbid. And it's Elena's, so it's not going to be many anyways.

But also, we just don't do many an amor. We don't. These are just full-on episodes. And this one is a part one of part two. of part two. It's a multi-barter. Did you see how you just said that? Sure did.

Are you good? I wanted emphasis on it. I thought part-2. I feel like you just wanted to sound like a creepy salesman with like a toupee and a mustache. That's exactly what I was going for. So I'm glad it came off that way. I can catch a vibe.

So yeah, so we're not going to do a lot of business with this one. Hope you guys have enjoyed our Crime Countdown podcast. I love it personally. I did listen to it because I don't listen to Morbid because I don't listen to morbid because I don't like my own voice. But I listened to that and I thought it was like really good. Yeah, because it's funny if someone else like edit it and effects and all that. So hope you guys are digging that. It seems like you are. Thank you so much for your support. You're the best. We love you. We love you. The other thing, I think the only thing we wanted to mention because wow is there was an

update in the Naira Rivera case. So sad. They did find her body in the lake. Unfortunately, she is deceased. there's no other information that's really been out yet. I think they're actively investigating what's going on because it's a strange case. It is a strange case. It's real weird. From what I read, it sounds like, I don't know if they like jumped off to go swimming or something, but it sounds like she was trying to, she like brought her son back up over onto the boat.

And then I think maybe she just like lost her energy doing that and maybe drowned. Yeah. It's just so, it's strange. It's a strange and it's sad. And I hope her family, I hope we can figure out what happens so her family can, her friends can know what happened here. Her dad was out there swimming and looking for her. The picture of her father swimming in the lake. Because I'm also like, you poor man, what if you find her?

I know. You know, like it's just, oh. It's like you want to find her, but it's like, do you want to be the one? Yeah, it's just, oh, it's really upsetting. And I hate it. From every angle. It really is. So this is not that we're not doing the Vanessa Gian case today or that one's coming out on Saturday.

So be on the lookout for that. This one is kind of a crazy one. I don't know what this is. And when I did a deep dive, I was like, oh, no, I got to keep going on this. What is it? So this one comes to us from Ireland. Oh, we're Irish. We are Irish.

And we have a lot of Irish listeners. So, heyo. What did they say? How do you say hi in Irish? Hi. That's what I thought. So hi. Hi, you couldn't.

That's how you say it. That's how you say it. You guys appreciate that. So this story is the vanishing triangle of Ireland. Oh, so it's like a Bermuda triangle. Kind of like a Bermuda triangle, but Irish. But Borgier, exactly, but greener. Greener.

So this is a series of disappearances that are considered to be murders, but they're have not found any bodies or any evidence. Ooh. Yeah. And they took place between 1993, 1993, 1998, within an 80-mile radius just outside of Dublin. That's interesting. So it's in a small area, technically, like the radius. It's, um, there's, so that what they're doing is they're focusing on six women that have

disappeared. There are a few more in this case, but they really focused on the six to try to connect to those first. Yeah, it's stronger ties. But the other ones are connected. So we are, we'll talk about those in part two more. Okay. We're going to talk about the first three disappearances in this one.

And we're going to discuss a little bit of the theories outside of like, you know, what could be happening here. And in the second part, we're going to talk about some more theories, the suspects, because there's one main suspect I really want to get into. Okay. So get ready for all of that. This is like the Irish killing fields. It is. It's crazy. Right?

I thought about that. I was like, wow, it's like the sixth. So, I mean, no, we're giving you a little. lot of like really big cases back to back. That's fine. Enjoying. So yeah, so they're they're thinking one of the theories is that there could be a serial killer at work here. I mean, sounds like it. Because all the first of all of these girls, these women are were literally vanished without a trace. Okay. Without a trace. Do they all have like things like they're all young things in common? They're all like young, attractive. They were all and and mainly the two things that really

really, or the few things that really like set them into being connected to with each other is that they were all young women. Usually in their like early to mid-20s. Oh, fuck. And they were young, attractive women living in Ireland around this area. Okay. And that they vanished without a trace. That is always so bonkers to me. And none of them had any like, like the families, it wasn't a situation where they were like, could they have just like picked up and left their life?

Like that just was in a situation. Not even considered. Yeah. And we'll see that. So the first one we're going to talk about is the disappearance of Annie McCarrick. Okay. This was on March 26, 1993. And I just realized that you were not born yet.

And that is blowing my mind. Yeah. Whenever it, wow. Actually, I think my mom graduated high school that year. 92, I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't come along much later.

That's a whole lot. Or I did come along. Yeah. Not that much later. is what I'm trying to say. Am I good right now? You got it. Hello, slap. You know what? It's tax day today. It's a lot. Oh, oh. Yeah, so it's stressful. So, makes me nauseous. She was 26 years old when she disappeared. She was born in March of 1967 to her parents, Nancy and John. She is an American from Long Island. She's not Irish. We love Long Island.

We love Long Island. We have family out there. We do. She was 5'8, about 140 pounds. Very pretty. all the, like, she's one of those women that, like, I saw the picture of her and I was like, oh, like, you know what I mean? Like, she's just like, like, she's striking. She's striking. Like she, and she's just like a very unique pretty that you're just like, oh, I want to look. Like, I was like, oh, you're so pretty.

It's just like, oh, no. Yeah, it's like, poor Annie. So, like I said, she was an American from Long Island. She was in Ireland literally just because she loved Irish culture and she loved Ireland. She was obviously with the last name of Carrick. Irish. She has Irish heritage. You don't say.

She was very into her Irish heritage. Her parents were like she became obsessed with it from a young age. I feel like we always are. Yeah, you want to know everything about it. A lot of people want to feel more connected to it. And she just really wanted to. So she had moved there initially in 1987 and was there, like I said, to explore her family's origins and roots. And she was wanting to like just envelop herself in the world.

history of Ireland because I mean the United States like sure we have a lot of history like cool is it fun though but like when you look at Europe with like castles and stuff like their history is so old way cooler it's just so much it's so foreign to us because like we don't you know we don't we don't have that old churches yeah exactly that tourists love to take picture but even that's just a building they're not that old no in comparison yeah when you compare it to Europe it's like whoa so going over to Ireland, you're just getting a whole other side of history. It's like going to like a museum. Ireland is a museum. I've never, I can't wait someday when all the world is better to be able to go to Europe because I just want to see all that history. It must be so cool to like for real.

For real. I want to do a show in Europe. Oh, we will someday. Oh my God. So Annie was bright. She was fun. She was sweet. Obviously she was very like independent. She was like, I want to go over to Ireland. Yeah. She was just like, let's do this. She was called a ray of sunshine. by her friends. She made friends very easily, which I mean, you need to if you're going to go over to a foreign country and just by herself. Seriously. And she did. She was able to make friends. She was staying with two female roommates named Jill and Ida, who she met over there and they became like lasting friends. Oh, I love that. So she immediately would click with people. I love friendship. Yeah. And they lived in a flat together in Sandy Mount Dublin, Ireland. And she was also taking classes to become a teacher. She wanted to become a

teacher over in Ireland. Okay. She was taking classes at St. Patrick's Training College in Drumcondra, Dublin. And she later took classes at St. Patrick's College in Maynooth. So, like, what wasn't she doing? She was doing everything. She sounds like such a badass. For real. She at one point had a very serious relationship with a man in Ireland, with a man named Philip Brady. That ended amicably. Not a bad relationship. It was like very intense. number one? Nope, not at all, Phillips, totally fine. And everything was fine. They ended and they were like, okay, sorry, like that didn't work. So that happened. Then when she transferred to college in Maynuth, because she originally started at the training college, when she transferred to the college in Maynuth,

she began another serious relationship with a guy named Dermott Ryan. Suspects number one? No. Okay. Damn it. When does he come in? I just want to put these in here just so you know she was, she did date men over there. like she had people in her life. She had an active social life and love life. And he also, so you'll see it, it will connect. In the early 90s, though, she returned back to the States for a bit. And that was to get her master's degree. Jesus Christ.

Yeah. So she came back, got her master's degree. But then she was like, I really want to teach in Ireland. Oh, that's sick. That's so cool. And I need to get my certification over in Ireland to do that. Because she just loved it. She was like, I can't stay in the United States.

I need to go back. I mean, I feel like once you go live somewhere other than the United States, you might be like, why did I come back? I think it's just like everywhere. Like when you go to this foreign place, you know what I mean? Like you're just like, wow. It's special. It just opens everything up. So in 1993, she went back to Ireland.

That's where she was like, I'm settling. Like this is where I'm going to live. So in March of that year, she had only been back for like three months at that point because she went back in January of 1993. Yeah. And by March, she was missing. So, and she and Dermit, between all of this, they tried to make it work when she went to the United States. That's very long distance. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure he went to visit her in the United States at one point. So they really did try to make it work. Yeah. They ended up breaking up because she was just really focused on her studies. She had a lot going on. It just wasn't working. There was a lot going on. Again, not a bad breakup. Amicable. Yeah, just they broke up. She started working. She worked at a restaurant. her on at one point. I believe she worked at a hotel at one point and then she was working at a cafe when she went missing. Okay. So on March 26, 1993, she left her apartment. She was planning to take the day to spend in the Wicklow Mountains. She wanted to take a like at least take a walk at the

foothills, I guess, which is like a very popular place, a beautiful place to walk. So like populated. Yeah. So she and she just was like, you know what, I just want to like take the day to do that. So her friend was supposed to come with her, but then couldn't at the last second. Oh, no. Yeah. Her roommates, Jill and Ida, were both leaving to go home for the weekend. So they were gone. She had the flat to herself.

So she left the flat in the morning. She had a couple of errands she needed to run. This was in 1993. So unfortunately, if it was now, we would have a lot of surveillance footage of her doing her errands. Like CCTV and everything. But there is one. There was one CCTV footage of her, and it was when she went to a bank. She went to the Allied Irish bank in Sandymount.

She was doing some business there. I think she was trying to transfer her account closer to her new flat. Okay. Because when she first moved back to Ireland, she was staying. She was actually staying with her ex-boyfriend's brother and his fiancee for a little while. So that's how close they all stayed. Yeah. Like she stayed very close to the family.

That's so telling. It's telling of the kind of person she is. And so she was trying to transfer. her bank closer to where her new flat was. Okay. Yeah. So it was like a whole thing. She was hanging out there. She was caught on CCTV. So we have the timestamp. She was caught. She was caught. Then she was seen by witnesses at the Queensworth supermarket around 11 a.m.

Where she was picking up items. Some say she was, there's like two reports. She was either picking up items because she sometimes volunteered to make desserts for the cafe that she worked at. Oh my God. This girl does it all. So she told them she would make desserts to bring in the next morning to like help them out. That and she was also getting items because she had planned a dinner to host a couple of friends that weekend for like a dinner at the flat. So maybe she was getting both.

So I think she was doing both. That seems to be what was the thing. We know that no matter what she was getting stuff for dinner for this dinner party that she planned to host. Got it. She was going to be hosting her friends Hillary and Rita the next day. Now, Hillary was her ex-boyfriend Philip's brother. That's the one that she lived with when she first went there. Hillary was her ex-boyfriend's brother.

Yes. Okay. Her ex-boy Philip. Yeah. Remember good old Philip? Yes. His brother is Hillary. Okay.

So this is her ex-boyfriend's brother. Got it, got it, got it. And Rita is the fiancé. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So that's who she initially stayed with. She's going to have dinner with now. Yeah. The people that she stayed with when she first moved to Ireland.

Okay. I get it now. So she wanted to have them over her new flat to return the favor. Yeah. I love you guys. Yeah. And again, it just shows their bros. Like she's a cool person.

Her mother was also planning to visit in a few days. Like it was a big plan because I guess when they first, when she first wanted to go back to Ireland, her parents were like, but we're going to miss you. Yeah. They were upset about it a little bit. Like they understood, but they were like, hmm, like you're just going to wear. very far, right. And so they immediately planned a visit, like set one stone. They're like, we're going to miss you. Let's see you the next day. We need to see you. I know. I would love

to live like super far away, but I just can't. I'd miss my, yeah, I'd miss my family. I couldn't do it. I'm like a very... I'm a homebody. Yeah, I'm just used to being near my family, so it would be a big change. So she did make a couple of phone calls after this at, um, they called them like phone kiosks, like phone booths. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in 1993, they were like very using, people used them all the time. Not great. Yeah. And so she did make a couple of phone calls. I believe she called Hillary and Rita to confirm the time, which I think was like 8 o'clock

the next night that they were going to be doing it. And she also called someone else. I think it was another friend. So she made those phone calls. That's logged. She gets back to her apartment with her groceries. Yep. According to a Reddit post that I read.

And then I also followed this up with a book, which I'm going to mention the name of book in a second. She left her bag of groceries on the counter. And this is strange only because she came in. She put her bag of groceries on the counter. And it had a lot of things that needed to be refrigerated in it. It had meat. It had cream. It had butter, which I know outside of the U.S. butter is usually not refrigerated often because we're silly. I don't refrigerate my butter. I don't always refrigerate my butter, but we are more like crazy with that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think outside the U.S. people are like, why do you refrigerate those things? Like, you know what? Like, we're a little crazy. Cream, I guess, is also something that technically,

I think they can get away with it longer than we can, like leaving it at room temperature. Huh. It's probably a lot fresher than what we have or something like that. It's definitely different. So that's not crazy, but meat. And like, and also she's American. So I think she's used to putting things in the refrigerator. Well, meat is like everybody puts that in. And meat, it's like you got to put meat in the refrigerator. The bag stayed on the counter and was found when she went missing still on the counter. So to you, does that say that perhaps somebody was in the house and startled her? No. Okay. Because damn it, we have her, we have sightings of her after this. But what it says to me was that she put down that bag and then she was going to go for her walk because she didn't end up going for her walk yet.

So she wanted to go for her little walk in the mountains. Was that supposed to be quick? And that's the thing. So I think what she was thinking was I'm going to go for a quick little walk, like a little, you know, just clear my head. You know, maybe that's just something she did. Yeah. And then she was planning on coming back quickly and putting it back. It's still very strange that she just didn't like unpack it. Yeah. But maybe she forgot that there was meat in there. I guess I've done that. Well, what's weird is so around 3 p.m., a plumber named Bernard Sheehan saw her leave the apartment and talked to her briefly. And again, the bag is still unpacked in the kind of. counter. So it's a little weird. She went to the bus station and was seen on the 44 bus from Ranelah. I just looked it up because I wanted to make sure I said it right. Ranelah. That's really pretty. I love when the pronunciation people are like, Ranelah. Ranelah. This was a bus. So the 44 bus

from Ranelah to Annescarry at 3.40 p.m. she was seen. We know this on that bus. Apparently who she was seen by is important because it's a former co-worker and it's somebody who knows. her personally. So they, this isn't like a witness who was like, oh, I think I saw that girl on this bus. They were like, no, I know her. I definitely saw her. No, I know her. We have a relationship. Like I've seen her. I talk to her. We know each other. So they were like, yes, I saw her. We didn't get to speak because like it was busy and she was going on like the second level of the bus or something and they just didn't get to talk. But she was like, this person was like, I know I know her. Right. So this is the last time anyone who knew her saw her. Okay.

There was another possible sighting of her after this at a small coffee shop. I believe it was called Poppies. And the person who thinks they saw her said that they saw her with a man. Okay. And they said this man bought her a food item. They left together. They seemed to know each other. She was not dating anyone at the time, so no one knows who this man was.

Maybe she had just met somebody? Maybe because then there is another citing. And this one is, this one's like debated. So it's between 9 p.m. to 11 p.m. that she was seen in this area. It isn't confirmed to be her in this place, but it sounds like it's generally believed that this is her. But no one who actually knew her saw her here, it's just witnesses seeing the newspaper and being like, oh, I saw this girl. Okay. So what is it? It's a little easy to believe this because also she was 5'8 and a pretty American.

So she would be reckoned. stand out in a foreign place. Right, right, right. She's definitely going to. So this siting is at Johnny's Fox Pub in Glenn Cullen. And it's apparently a big tourist place there. A lot of, like, tourists go there. So it would make sense.

She had been there before. A bouncer said they thought they saw her. He came forward, like, after they put the picture out. And he was like, oh, yeah, I saw her. Because he's like, I remember a tall, pretty American. Right. And he said, I saw an American woman matching her description. She came in and didn't realize there was a cover.

charge to go in for this like music show. You kind of remember her even more because of that. So she was like, oh shit. It was like two pounds to get into the music show that was going on. It was like a traditional Irish music show. That's cool. Which is again something she would like to. Right.

Because she loved that stuff. So she was like, uh-oh. And he was like, yeah, you got to pay the two pounds. But he said a man in his late in his like 20s behind her, like late 20s was like, I got it and paid for her and him. So they were there together, it seemed. No, because she seemed like, oh, like, she seemed kind of like, oh, thanks. Oh, thank you.

Like, it was kind of like, I don't know you, but like, thanks for doing that. Okay. So he was like, I assumed this was just like some dude trying to be like, show her wrist. I'm like, you're pretty here. I'll pay for you. And so. We loves that. Yeah.

So people there that night also came forward and said they saw her after the photo was published. They were like, that was her. And they said they saw the man. Uh-huh. And that he was buying her drinks all night like paying. attention to her all night. No one saw them leave together. And no one can tell you when... Did anybody see her leave? No one can say when he left or when she left, they didn't see them leave together. But who's to say they didn't if you didn't see them leave at all? Well, and initially

the man went unidentified. Nobody could tell who this dude was. But then... Well, then, Annie's father hired a private investigator after... Hell yeah, he did. After she went missing. and this private investigator believes that she never went to that pub. Oh. So he doesn't believe that was Annie at that pub. Okay. Now, the reason for this is that night, and I take this with a grain of salt. Okay, what's the reason?

I think this private investigator has a, it's a good reason. Maybe she wasn't there, but I don't know. I feel like she was there. What is it? So he says he doesn't think she was there that night because he said it was raining and freezing that evening. Oh, who gives the fuck? I'm still going out. Well, she would have had to walk in the rain in the pitch black for over three miles.

to get to the pub. Who's to say she didn't get a cab? And this would have been along pitch black mountain roads in the rain. Not likely she would do that alone. Okay. But again, maybe she could have got a ride. And if she was there with a guy, maybe she did know this guy, maybe she had just met him. Maybe he drove her over there.

Right. We don't know. So just through that end, just so you like have a, maybe it's a mammary. You can decide either way. Why people are like, I don't know. So the next day was Saturday. She doesn't show up to get her paycheck at work or for her. shift. And when her friends Rita and Hillary show up at her apartment that night for dinner,

no one answers. She's not there. This is not like Annie. So they left. They like waited around for a while then left and they called her. No one answered. So they're like, this is weird. So they ended up calling her mother and being like, which again shows how close they are. They were like call her mom. And we're like, this is weird. And her mom's like, what the hell? And then Jill and Ida showed a back up the next morning and Jill and Annie wasn't there. And not. bag of groceries is chilling on the counter. And the shopping bag is sitting on the counter with meat and shit. And that meat is probably rancid as fuck at this point. So now everyone is concerned as fuck. They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is all bad. And this is not Annie. Yeah. And it was clear to them

that she had intended to come back and put that stuff away. Right. You don't just plop a bag on a counter and leave and not plan to come back. No. So once it was discovered that she was gone, her parents were contacted again by friends. They arrived in Ireland immediately on the next flight. She was officially reported missing about 80 hours after the last sighting of her was confirmed. Oh, that's a long time. So now people are wondering, was this guy that she was possibly seen with twice, the man that was responsible for disappearance? And was this the same man? We don't know. Like, they both were in their mid-20. Those are late 20s, but like, I don't know. So are a lot of other people. Exactly. So there was a massive search for the police publicly asked

people with any information to come forward. That's when a lot of these people came forward being like, oh, I saw her here. I saw her there. She was wearing a dark-colored tweed jacket when she disappeared. And Oxblood colored cowboy boots, which I'm like, get it, girl. She was also carrying a tan shoulder bag. Okay. So the missing person's investigation quickly turned into a murder investigation.

They don't have any evidence, but that they've released of this. Well, where the fuck is she? But she really went without a trace. Authorities are basically looking for a body at this point. No trace of her has ever been recovered. The parents stayed in Ireland for two months looking for. Oh, that's awful. Those poor parents.

And nothing. There's nothing. She disappeared. That is just always, I mean, I've said it so many times, but the craziest thing to me when people just disappear and there's nothing. It's insane. Now, there's two theories outside of like a serial killer. operating. Now, what are those? One of the theories is the

former flame theory. Now, she was apparently had told a few friends that she had let things get a little too far recently with a former flame of hers. Not Philip, not Dermott. A different dude. Another person. And she said, like, things just went a little too far and that she was like, oh,

I don't want to get back into that. Like, I don't know why I let that happen. So, but like... Basically, she's saying, like, they hooked up and she was like, oh, shit. I shouldn't have done that. I'm just like, that was bad again. It's not going to start again. So when this person, this guy was asked about it by police because the friends came forward and were like, By the way, he denied that it happened. And that's sketchy.

Then tried to make up an alibi for the time she claimed they were together. Cool, cool, cool. So immediately they were like, oh, that's sketchy as fuck. Right. So they started pressing him on it. And eventually he admitted, Annie was telling the truth. They had hooked up, whatever it happened, and that his alibi was bullshit. And his reasoning for lying was he didn't want his girlfriend to find out.

Oh, so he's just garbage. He's fucking pig. He's probably not a murder. He's just a fucking asshole. You idiots? Well, don't lie to the police. You just almost got arrested for murder, you dumbass. Right.

And all on your own. Like, fuck. Jesus. So that one didn't pan out. So they were like, well, see you later. Goodbye. The second theory, this one's an interesting one. And this one has stuck around.

And this one, if it's not a serial, killer, this one seems pretty likely. Hit me up. So this is a theory of the IRA member, the Irish Republican Army. I was like, the what? You saw my face. You were like, I know I've heard it before, but I was like, the what again? So this is kind of crazy.

So eventually the man who paid for her to enter the pub that evening was identified. Sure. And he was identified as a former IRA member. He was a legit hit man. Oh. I'm sorry, this is the guy that paid for her to get a. He was on the run for murder at that time. You don't want to owe him money. No, you don't want to owe him two pounds at all. And he had been banished from Northern Ireland.

Perfect. And members had literally like kicked him away and were like, you need to be gone. So what? This man was banned from Ireland shortly after this. Ireland as a whole? And is in the U.S. Oh, no thank you. They believe, at least. He was caught up in a situation where he raped the 12-year-old daughter of another IRA member. Oh my God. He's like a brutal monster. So this is a strong theory.

Here's what the theory is. So there is a book by, let me just drag, Alan Bailey, who is the lead investigator, one of the lead investigators on this case. Oh, shit. It's called Missing Presumed, and it's about the six that they focused on. Okay. And I'll talk a little bit more about him in a second. But in his book, he postures that perhaps what had happened that night, the reason that this guy would want to take her or kill her was he, you know, he found her attractive.

He paid for her to be like, cool, I'm going to be like the sly guy. And then they, you know, people said that he was buying her drinks. They were drinking together. They were like talking. And maybe she wasn't into him. No. No, damn it. Maybe that, you know, he.

started seeing that because she was very open about like I love Irish things I love all things Irish and so he maybe saw that that was the case she was probably pretty open about it like I love this music I love Irish music and I'm American but and so he was probably like I'm gonna impress her and tell her my stories of like the IRA and like all that stuff she might and he's drinking so he's getting drunk said too much maybe he said a little too much maybe she was getting a little uncomfortable and she was like yeah I'm not into this and he could see that and maybe he was like oh shit gotta take care of that I got to take care of this because I told her too much and she's uncomfortable and might tell someone and well maybe just don't fucking say that then it's not a bad theory I think that

if there's no if this isn't like a serial killer situation that's a pretty good theory for Annie I agree with you it's awful and I you know I mean it's pretty plausible but it's pretty plausible I meant to say plausible. I was like, what is plausible? Pretty plausible. I meant to say plausible. Pretty plausible.

I like really don't. I'm not good at that whole talking thing lately. Words are hard. What did I say the other day? You said, um, scarce or scarce. You put, you make sparse and scarce. Yeah. And you made scarce.

I don't know. I think. It's my favorite. I think maybe I'm having a brain issue. A brain issue. See, clear. Anyways, go ahead with your storytelling. So that's Annie McCarrick's disappearance.

Again, no evidence has been found. She seemingly vanished into thin air. I don't know. I like that plausible theory. Yeah. I mean, that's the only thing that really makes sense outside of this all being the work of some mastermind serial killer. Yeah. So the next one is Josephine Jojo-Dollard.

Jojo. Yes, and this was November 9th, 1995. She was 21 years old. Still wasn't born yet. He still wasn't born yet. God damn it. She was 21 years old. She was 5 foot 5, like she was petite, blue eyes, brown hair.

She was, you know, supposedly really funny. She was kind of like a goofball and easy to be around. She had three brothers, or three sisters and a brother. She had a tough, like, go at it at first. Her father died shortly before she was born, and her mother died when she was only 10. Oh, that's awful. So her older sisters basically raised her. Yeah.

She worked as a waitress a lot in a lot of different pubs and cafes. Initially, she was living and working in Dublin, but moved closer to her hometown of Callan. She had a flatmate, Mary McCullinan. And on the day she went missing, she went into Dublin on an early bus because she was going to go pick up there, social welfare payments. And it was like a specific day you did that. So she got them and the bus that she was going to come back on wasn't

going to be leaving until like 6 p.m. So she had like hours to wait. Okay. So she talked to some friends on some like, and some of the phone booths. And she, remember she had been living in Dublin for a while before she moved back to the hometown of Callan.

So she had a lot of friends there. Yeah. She had worked in some of the pubs there. So she was like, you know what? I'm going to go to this pub called Bruxels and I'm going to see if anybody I know is in there like maybe see some people. Yeah. So she ran into an old friend who was bartending there. She hung out there chatting with him for a while. Then another friend of hers from like a far showed up and this was someone that she had had a thing with at one point. Okay. So they spent a few times like hours together. They were like rekindling basically. Like you know, because you're sitting there having some drinks.

Well, apparently it went well, the rekindling, because a room was booked at a nearby hotel in their name. Get it, girl? Get it, girl. But that, and it was supposed to be for that evening, but unfortunately, they didn't use that room. Because she didn't show up? Nope, because a girl showed up to the pub while they were still there. And this girl was the one who this dude had met right after dating Jojo. And, oh, they were living together.

A.k.a. That was his girlfriend. So she was not pleased to say the least. Fuck that. Her and Jojo got into like an argument a little bit. Well, how the fuck was Jojo supposed to know? He didn't tell her. Right. What the hell. Don't yell at the girl. Y'all at the guy. So they got in like a little bit of an argument. He ended up leaving with the girl. What a douche. Exactly. So he left Jojo. And now Jojo's like, oh shit, my bus left at 6 p.m.

Oh no. I thought we were staying. Now we're not. So he's like, well, shit. And now she's stranded. So she decides to go to another bus station and try to catch another bus heading in the direction of home. She knows she's not going to be able to go all the way on the bus. So what she figures is she's like, you know what? I'm going to have to hitchhike the rest of the way.

Oh, no. Because at that point, especially, you know, where she was, that was not a weird thing to do. Right. Now, when she got to the bus station this time, it was after 9 p.m. Because remember, she had hung out with this person at the bar forever. staying. And the bus going out was going as far as Nas. So her plan was then to hitchhike to Callan. And that was a long way. I looked it up and I believe from like Dublin to Callan. It was like over an hour. Oh shit. So she got a ride hitchhiking. And this driver that initially picked her up was only going as far as Kill Cullen, which was far away from home still. But he was like, you know what? I'll pick you up and I'll bring you that far. At least it's somewhat. He was like, I just don't want you, like, standing out here by yourself. And he even told her, you've got to be careful.

Like, maybe you should just get a hotel. Like, you shouldn't be, you know, I'm not a creep, but like, I'm a little worried about you. Like, this is a little creepy. Oh, I wish she had just drove her home. Well, and he dropped her off at Kill Cullen, and then another young man plucked her up. But he was only going as far as Moon, which is a village. Oh, shit. I want to live there. The village of Moon.

So she took him up on that. And around 1130, he dropped. dropped her off near a phone booth in Moon. And that's where she called Mary, her roommate. Okay. And she was like, I still got a long way to go. Can you come get me, Mary? Like, she's got a shit ton of, like, distance to go back home.

And she's already done two hitchhikes. Now, witnesses said they saw her half in the phone booth and half out of it talking on the phone while trying to hitchhike at the same time. Oh, damn. So she's telling Mary. You got a multitasking girl. Yeah, she's telling Mary this whole sordid tale being like, Jesus Christ. But she also doesn't want to miss anyone. And then she's holding her thumb out, just making sure she can still hitch.

So Mary said that while speaking to her, she was like, wait, hold on a second. She heard the phone booth door open. 30 seconds later, she got back on the phone. And Jojo was like, I got someone. So I'm on my way. This was the last time she spoke to her. Oh, no. Now, a witness later said they saw someone matching Jojo's description running from the phone booth box to a dark-colored four-door Toyota Carina.

they said she got into the back passenger side, which would mean there was probably, well, no, no, wait, sorry, passenger side. That there's at least two people in that car, possibly three other people in that car. And that was possibly, and then after that or I don't know if it was, yeah, it was after this, she was possibly seen in Castle Dermott wandering the roads, but that's not confirmed. Right. People said they saw like a woman on the road at Castle Dermott. Okay.

They kind of matched her description, but like, I don't know if it makes sense. When she didn't show up at work the next day, Mary called Jojo's older sister Kathleen, because remember her older sister said, like, raised her. And she immediately contacted police. She said they didn't really take it seriously immediately. That's nice. And she really had to, like, fight to get her case opened. Good.

Because they were like, she's 21. Good for her. She's fine. And they were like, she was like, no, this is weird. And she said, especially it bothered her that she's like, I'm telling the police. that she disappeared while hitchhiking in the middle of the night. Right. And her last communication was like, hey, I'm getting into a stranger's car.

And then she was never seen again. And they're like, well, she's 21. Like, why isn't that telling you that like this might be a problem? So police finally did take it seriously. And they started asking farmers around the area to search around their properties. Yeah. They combed the sides of the roads. They found nothing.

It was a massive search. The two drivers who did pick her up, they came forward during this to be like we picked her up like they offered up like we the two previous people like they were like we picked her up we want to make sure that that's on record um there were crazy rumors at one point that the one of the drivers who came forward was a guy who possibly was a suspect oh like was this like the second one or something yeah this was the second one it came from a he came from a super prominent political family in the area okay and people thought that she was buried on their property. I think it was just like one of those crazy rumors.

Like a conspiracy kind of thing. No driver, though, has come forward to say they picked her up in Castle Dermott where they say people saw her. So police say then it's probably clear that that third person who picked her up in Moon Village was probably or people in the car were responsible. Probably multiple people. Probably the ones responsible. Right. Like they are the last people. Like, duh. So police. went as far as to do a full-blown recreation of her last movements and film it for television. That's cool. Like they hired actresses.

They did the whole thing. So they came through. Yeah. So they came through. And they believe she was abducted between 1150 and like 1215. And she was wearing black jeans, a black jacket, white shirt, and black shoes. Now, in January 1997, this is crazy. What?

A taxi driver. This is in 1997. A taxi driver told authorities, he was like, you know what? I have something to say about this case. And this is like four years later? This is, yeah, because what was this? 93, I thought. Let me make sure.

95. So this is a year later. Oh, or two years later. Sorry. It's two years later, though. The taxi driver came forward and he said that night, a bit after 1 a.m. When she went missing, he was driving home from his shift. Mm-hmm.

And he said he passed by a car that was pulled over in the same exact area. He said he observed a man standing at the front driver's side peeing on the side of the road. Cute. And he just noticed it. And then he said, suddenly, I saw the rear passenger door fly open and a woman jumped out and appeared to run away. Oh, no. He noted she appeared very upset, very frantic. and he saw another man jump out of the backseat of the car and run after her.

He grabbed her around the waist and him along with the peeing guy roughly threw her into the back of the car. And what did the fucking taxi driver do? Well, and he said they got in and drove away as fast as they could in the direction of Waterford City. And he didn't call the police when this happened? Well, that's the thing. So he said the car was likely a red Ford Sierra saloon car.

And apparently that can look like a Toyota Carina, which is what. what somebody else saw. Yeah. And it was a dark color, too. So it kind of fits to it. Now, his reasoning for not coming forward, he came up with like a bunch of different reasons of like, you know. I just suck. I heard the whole thing.

Yeah, it was, it's just like he said at the, when it all like broke, he figured someone else had seen her. So he wasn't going to tell his story. Like, well, fuck you guy. He didn't know if it was her. It was just a whole thing. Like, I don't care if it's heard that when, as soon as that happened before he even heard that someone was missing, you called a police. you call the police if you see something like that. That's the thing.

And it's like, that to me looks pretty good as the thing. I mean, the fact that he said jumped out of the rear passengers, that's the one she got in there. Yeah. So at the end of last year. So at the end of 2019, they opened up another investigation into Jojo's disappearance. They're going to relook at everything, like basically a completely exhaustive relook into the case. that's good because a lot of these are being reopened and looked at with a finer tooth comb. Now, this next one, this is the last disappearance I'll cover in this one, because we're going to cover three in this and three in the next one.

This was on August 23rd, 1996. It was Fiona Pender. She was 25 years old. You love that name. I do. I love the name Fiona. One of my kids was almost Fiona. I know. So she was seven months pregnant. Oh, no. That adds a whole other layer. Her partner was John Thompson. She was a part-time model and an apprentice hairdresser. Hey-yo. She was known as bubbly, friendly, very lovable. She loved motorcycles and was very skilled at riding. Oh, cool. She even became involved in a motorcycle riding club and actually, I think she met John there.

That's cool. Isn't that cool? Unfortunately, her brother Mark died tragically in a motorcycle accident. Oh. June 1995. And that's when she refused to ever ride a motorcycle again. Yeah. So she just totally was like, no.

So this poor family has had unimaginable tragedy. Seriously. She was five foot five at the time. And again, seven months pregnant. She wasn't able to move around very well. She was having an okay pregnancy. It's just seven months is. It can get tough at the end.

And five five is petite. She's little. So it's tough to move that around. So she went to the local Sacred Heart Secondary School. She completed a junior certificate. John and her lived in London for a little bit at one point. Nice. Then they settled in Tullamore.

So last, she was last seen in bed by John in her flat and Church Street in Tullamore. Well, that's interesting. John had spent, so he had left her when she was in bed. He was going to spend the night starting on August 23rd, the last time he saw her, at his family's farm. because they had moved a little bit away from his family's farm and he liked to help out. So he stayed over for the night to help them out. I guess that was like a source of contention a little bit in their relationship when they first were figuring out where to live. Yeah.

Because she loved London and they didn't know where they were going to live. He wanted to move closer to his family in Tellermore. Okay. So she left the flat at some point that next day. We know that. And was never seen again. Right. So she was having a, like I said, she was having tough time walking around. So she wasn't going to go far on her own.

Right. This was not a case of like she got up and left. She ran away. Yeah. So that Thursday, the day before she disappeared, she had spent the day shopping with her mother for baby items. That's really sad. Was very happy, but very tired. She had gone back to her parents home for a bit that night. And then at 7 p.m., she took a taxi home with her mom.

Okay. They planned to have another day together the next day. But that was the last moments her mom saw her. Oh, that's really awful. So the next day, her mother calls her because they had plans and she couldn't get her on the phone. And she was like, that's weird. So she went to the flat. The curtains were closed.

The shades were drawn. It was dark. But she was like, you know what? Maybe she's resting or napping, you know, pregnancy. Her father had actually walked by the flat later that night. It was still dark. The shades were still pulled. The next afternoon, and they're starting to be like, that's a little weird, but like maybe she's just tired and she's pregnant.

The next afternoon is when they were like, what the fuck? Because they still weren't getting anything. So they called got no answer. Then they called John at his parents home. And he said he thought Fiona was with them. Oh. And so he probably hasn't been able to get in touch with her either. Yeah, he was like, I was assuming she was with you.

He came home immediately. They searched endlessly. 10 p.m. Saturday night, they filed a missing person's report. Yeah. Police came and. searched. They found no forced entry, no signs of anything happening in the flat. Okay. So they were like, she definitely like left on her own, at seems at least. They broadcasted it everywhere. It went all over the place. Her picture was circulated.

One witness came forward and said early Friday morning, he was walking on Church Street and he saw two men putting a big, bulky thing that appeared to be wrapped in an old rugger carpet into the trunk of their car. Oh, casual. So he was like, I'm sorry. I. I thought it was just a rolled-up carpet. It's never just a rolled-up carpet. And it was on Church Street, which is where she lived. March 31st, 2000, her father, Sean, unfortunately, took his own life. Oh.

And family says it was due to heartbreak of losing his child and his unborn grandchild. And his, he lost a son, too. Yeah. So May 10th, 2008, someone, this is crazy. This is like blue one. And so this was in 2008. Yeah. Someone was walking in Moniqueu in the, what is it, cell?

I got to look this one up. Pause. Pause everybody because this one's a tough one and I don't want to mess it up. Sleeve bloom. That's what it is. Did you just get me in that too? I sure did. I don't want to mess it up.

I think it's sleeve bloom, I believe. That's how it came out to me. So this person was walking in the slave blooms. And they came across a handmade. cross with the words Fiona Pender buried here Thursday October 22nd, 1996. Uh-huh. So of course they notified the police because they were like, what, what? Well, and that's somebody that knows her, clearly.

And it became a huge event. They had to like seal off the big area around it. They set out on this big like supervised dig. They had a noted forensic anthropologist on board. They were like, here she is. That would be like almost scarier to find than a box. body. Right? Like, that's haunting. Like, buried here. Yeah. Like on this state, like, and like this missing person. Yeah. So they dug extensively. Nothing. Do you think that it was just

like a, like a terrible, terrible prank? People think it could have either been a very terrible hoax or, according to Alan Bailey in the missing presumed book, the date on the cross does coincide with this huge personal trauma that occurred in the life of a male that is a person of interest in the case. Okay. So the fact that he was like, so the fact that that date happens to coincide with this big moment of trauma in this guy's life who's a person of interest in the case. Do we know what the trauma is?

Seems they didn't release it. Oh. And we don't even know the person's name. They don't release a lot publicly like people of interest. That's kind of smart. And so, but they said that's interesting. Okay. But again, nothing has come of it yet.

This was in 2008, which was a long time at this point. You think of it as like not that much, but like, not that long. When they say point of trauma, I wonder if this guy like completed suicide. No. No. No. No, it's like a personal trauma in his life. Oh, like the date occurred.

So it's not the same day. Okay, okay. I'm stupid. It's like that. It's like that. date is like a predate of personal trauma like the anniversary so they're wondering if it has to do with it got it got it got it got it that down sorry i was like i'm like sleuthin but you're like you're not good at this you're trying no you are you're great at it yeah uh so he also said that the writing on

the cross is very unique and they hope it's that's going to help them bring results to they need a sample of this guy's writing they do so july 9th 2013 telemore town council where she lived voted to name a walk near the canal by her home, Fiona's way. I love that. I know, isn't that sweet? In 2014, police opened the investigation again. Good, good. So a woman in Saskatchewan, Canada, who was originally from Ireland, came forward and said

her husband, who was a person of interest in the case, had been arranging violent sexual assaults on her. I'm sorry, what? And threatening to kill her. And so she came to the police and she said, he's already like, he's already like, a person of interest in this and he she said he told her he killed Fiona oh damn and he told her where he buried her but so that lead they got a check it hasn't panned out yet but that's interesting that's that's pretty interesting I read that her mother said and this just like hurt my heart

because I was thinking about it and I was like wow that is that must be awful so her mother says quote I can't go to bed until I know I'm going to sleep because it's too hard I can't lie on the bed because it's just like a television program going in front of my eyes, remembering everything. Oh, that's horrible. And I was thinking about that. I was like, you must just wait for your body to be so tired just so you won't have to think because that would be the time when I would think. Yeah. I can't imagine it. Because you're not doing anything else. Yeah. So what happened in 1998, they set up a task force to really concentrate on these six disappearances because now they're like this is like. Like something's going down. And this was called Operation

trace and it was to establish connections, gather evidence, to connect all these things, and it stands for tracing, reviewing, and collating evidence, and was set up by Garda Commissioner Mr. Pat Byrne. This task force has six members in it and is headed up by Alan Bailey, who wrote that book, missing presumed. And they were focusing on men who have, quote, shown serious sexual violence against women. Yeah. Basically the worst monsters they can find because they're assuming that this person

definitely is like a sexual predator. Probably. They're profiling them, looking into their movements and whereabouts during the time of the disappearances. They establish this task force to focus on those specific six women, but they also acknowledge that these other cases that we'll mention in the next episode could be like associated. Yeah.

But they are focusing on the six because they really feel the connection here. Yeah. Larry Murphy is someone we're going to talk about in. Part two, and he is a violent sex offender and attempted murderer who they have been looking at heavily as possibly being the person responsible for a lot of these. So you must have some connections to these women. Yeah. And we're going to go into that in part two. So we're going to end here? But right now, we're going to leave you with those three disappearances. But you're leaving me with this, too. I want to know. Leaving you with it.

And in part two, we're going to get in the other missing women. Okay. We're going to talk about Larry. Yeah. And we're going to talk about a couple of the other theories. In the meantime, if you guys want more information on this case, I highly, highly, highly recommend the book Missing Presumed by Alan Bailey because it's sounds good. So exhaustive and so thorough. And he's literally working the case. He was working the case. He's retired now. But he was working the case. So he's got information you won't find anywhere else. But very, very interesting case. Damn, that was a very interesting. Part 1. I'm like ready for part two. I hope you guys are ready for part two. They're going to be. Are you ready? Yes. We're ready for this jelly. We're ready. It's going to be intense, guys. And you know what, Ireland? You're spooky as fuck. Yeah. You can't. Well, if you'd like to follow us on Instagram, please do so at Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. A morbid podcast. And send us a Gmail. Morbid Podcast at gmail.com. the end. Just kidding. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you

keep it weird. But not somewhere that you go to Ireland and you become a serial killer because that's not nice if you become a serial killer in Ireland because Ireland is a very beautiful place and you shouldn't be serial killing people there. Thank you. Good night. Shouldn't we love Ireland? Yay. Yay. Bye.