Morbid - James P. Watson: The Bluebeard Killer

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

When Kathryn Wombacher suspected her husband, Walter Andrew, of having an affair in the spring of 1920, she hired a private detective to follow him on one of his many “out-of-town” trips that he��d taken in their short marriage. However, rather than follow Walter out of town, the private detective tracked the man less than a mile from his home in Hollywood, where he discovered that Walter had indeed been carrying on a relationship with another woman—but that was to be the least of Kathryn’s worries.Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1920. "Police search for Montana girl is commenced ." Miles City Star, April 1: 1.—. 1920. "Alleged wife believes Huirt 'woman hater'." San Francisco Chronicle, April 15: 1.—. 1920. "Nine 'wives' killed by Bluebeard." Saskatoon Daily Star, May 11: 7.Cameron, Jim. 2014. "The horrifying marriage career of James "Bluebeard" Watson." Cranbrook Daily Townsman, October 31.Dowd, Katie. 2019. "'Object, matrimony': The forgotten tale of the West Coast's first serial bride killer." SF Gate, October 4.Hoag, Ernest, and Edward Williams. 1922. "The Case of J.P. Watson, the Modern Bluebeard." Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 348-359.Los Angeles Evening Express. 1920. "Huirt's latest wife here to clear mystery." Los Angeles Evening Express, April 14: 1.Los Angeles Times. 1920. ""I'm crazy!" Bluebeard cries to the public." Los Angeles Times, May 4: 15.—. 1920. "Watson confesses four wife-murders; married nearly a score of women." Los Angeles Times, April 30: 1.—. 1920. "Watson's real name Boyd?" Los Angeles Times, April 27: 17.—. 1920. "Watson's story of early life." Los Angeles Times, April 30: 1.—. 1920. "Whoesale bigamy bared." Los Angeles Times, April 11: 1.Rasmussen, Cecelia. 1997. "Quiet man left trail of dead wives." Los Angeles Times, August 31.Sacramento Bee. 1920. "Watson given life sentence for murder of Nina Lee Deloney." Sacramento Bee, May 10: 1.San Francisco Chronicle. 1920. "Burying ground of 'Bluebeard' thought found." San Francisco Chronicle, April 20: 6.Whitaker, Alma. 1930. "Bluebeard's treasure hunt blows up--bang." Los Angeles Times, November 30: 19.Zdeb, Chris. 2014. "Serial killer, bigamist had ties to Edmonton." Edmonton Journal, May 10: 2. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. Woohoo. It's a morning. It's a morning morbid. Morning in the morning. I'm done. See, it is morning. It's morning. Yeah, I have like about half left in my coffee.

Morning in the morbid. There you go. In the Morbid Podlab. That's what it is. Morning in the Morbid Podlab. Oh, Gorge. I did it. Morbid in the morning pod lab. And you know what this week is fun? because Caleb is in Massachusetts. We say this all the time,

but Caleb is genuinely just a shot in the arm. He truly is. A human form of a shot in the arm. He is. He just makes, you're just like, oh, all right. Like, I feel boosted.

Everything's fine. I feel immune. Yeah, you really get, like, he just makes you feel good. I feel lively. I feel happy. You should all have a Caleb. It's really, it's great.

Everyone needs a Caleb. He's also, 10 out of 10 recommend. The chillest human to host. Like, I'm like, we have to, like, go record shit. And I'm like, I'm really sorry.

Like, there's snacks in the cabinet. And he's like, dude, I'm just chilling. Dude, I'm like, I love you so much. I feel like both of us at this point just consider Caleb a brother. Oh, 100%. He's literally in my wedding party. He is. Yeah.

And we're going to record an episode of scream while we're here together in the flesh, which is always fun. I think we're also planning on having him in one of the episodes. I think that will be coming out next week. I think so. We're still getting used to this whole being scheduled thing. Yeah. And you know what?

like good, we're glad. It's a very good thing. It's just we're trying to figure it out. We're making we want to make sure that we are on that schedule like to the T. Yeah, we just want to be on our bullshit. You know, like, it's, it's time. And we hope that you guys, uh, we hope you guys are liking the extra episode. I know it hasn't been like, it's been like a minute and a half, but like, it's going to keep going. Um, but we're excited because we've been able to kind of like really mess around with that third episode every week. Like, you've been able to kind of like, go into things that we didn't know if we had time to put into the week before. You know, like when we had the two episodes, we were like, okay, well, it's either two true

crime cases or like maybe we'll throw in a listener tail every now and then. We were trying to be like really rigid about it. But now it's like we can kind of be, we can reach out into different things with this other one. And it's been a lot of fun. And it's a lot of fun to research and a lot of fun to record. So like, we're excited. We're excited. And we're working on some really cool shit that I think you guys are going to like.

Also, I just wanted to point out, I don't know if we've said anything on air yet, but our new website that, um, oh yeah, the March website. Yeah, sorry, I don't know why. I just stopped talking. Again, she just stopped. She's, she's not kicked in. But no, so our new Wondery Shop is up. We have a ton of cool shit. We have like t-shirts. There's coasters. There's drinkwear. We got you some sweatpants. And we're already working on more stuff to come. Like a lot of, I've seen a lot of people asking if like this is it. Is this just the more? Orbit merch. It's not. No, no, no, no. It's not. And it's like stuff that you have requested. Yes.

We have written, like, trust me, you're requesting something? We've written it down a little document every time we see it. It is in a Google doc. We have a long list of things that we have seen people ask for, especially if it's like a lot of people we see asking for the same thing. Like people are asking for like pop sockets and like backpack, stuff like that. So we've written that down. But just to point out the URL to the shop.

if you'd like to go, that's important. That'd be good. It's Wonderyshop.com slash collections slash morbid. And you go in there, man. It's really cool. And I think something that's really fun about this merch line is that it's really expressive. Is that a word? Yeah, it is.

Cool. About both of our tastes. Like, I feel like you can see both of us within the collection, which I really like. We had a huge hand in these ones now. And, like, we got to, like, Wondry's been so amazing, like, collaborating with us on it. and really taking who we are into consideration. Yeah. And we like doing tweaks and things that were important to us.

And they, uh, you know, we, they wanted to know a lot about like our listeners and like, who are you guys? Who do you like, you know, like it was really cool that we were able to like think of what, of you guys. Yeah. Yeah. We were just, you know what I mean? Like.

It was like a big bubbling cauldron. And we were like this and they like this and we like this. And we like this. And we know that they like this. And then it came together and then poof, the morbid, Wondery Shop is up. Because again, you guys are the reason we get to keep doing this. You're the reason for the season.

I was going to say that, though. I knew it. But like, we want to make you guys happy. That's the goal at all times. That's literally all we ever want to do. Whenever we can check that off at the end of the day, like we made everyone happy. No, that's unrealistic because that's not life. But if we can make you guys happy, feeling like you've been listened to,

feeling like, you know, the ones that can be made happy, I feel like, which is 99.9% of everybody. Yeah. But those, you know, when we feel like we have like checked it off that we've made you happy, we made you feel like you're listened to, that's really important to us. And we give you cool shit. That's all we want to do. Like literally every day I wake up and I'm like, I just want to make cool shit. Yeah. Like, that's all I want to do with my whole life is just make cool shit. I mean, that's what you are doing. You're making like a lot of cool shit. So congratulations on achieving your goal. That's how I feel though. Like when I put my episodes together, I'm like, I really hope they like this one man.

Yeah. It's just like you want, like it's very much like we just want to make you happy. So hopefully this is this is a really great thing and you guys like the Merck Shop. It seems like you guys are digging it. So that that's been like really cool. And remember there's more to come. There's more to come. And there's more content coming.

And we have some things. Guys, I'm like, we have some things coming up that like, like, we can't tell you yet. Oh my god. We have a really big thing coming up. There's one in particular. Are we thinking about this? It would be hilarious. We're definitely thinking of this thing. It's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just melded it to Elena. You can't see that because this is a podcast. Yeah, you guys are going to shit your dicks when you hear about this. Truly, truly. So I am, I'm losing it. But you'll know. I am. I'm losing it. But you'll know. You'll know. You'll know soon. Oh, yeah. There's like that one thing. We're being so.

cryptic right now. We're being so cryptid, right? We're going to be doing a cryptid episode guys coming up, so you know what? That was a little Freudian slip there. Cryptids are wild. They're wild. But we we have that one that we were just talking about that you can't hear about. Then we have one that's bloating off into the atmosphere that I'm just like, I have no idea what you're fucking talking about for that one. It's a big one. You're going to mouth it? I don't know what that. Oh, yep, yeah, okay. Reading lips is hard. This is talking. This is really good. This is really good. for you guys with just your ears. They're like, can you, can you stop that? But I'm telling you, there's two very big things that I'm just like waiting to really be able to tell you guys about.

And I think you're going to lose your minds and we're very excited about it. But you know what? That's that. We just figured today we were going to talk to you about all the cool shit that was happening. Yeah, sometimes be like, we just need a minute to like talk to you. Just to chat with you. Hey. Not about any like news or anything terrible that's going on in the world because you have the news for that. Yeah, and honestly, we can't keep up with it because there's terrible shit happening literally daily at this point. Every second. And sometimes we got to step away from it and just talk about Caleb, you know? Okay, but I know that we're seven minutes in, but like you remember who we wear as people in the beginning and bringing it back.

Can I just, can you quickly touch upon that TikTok that you showed me with the mummies? Oh, yeah. Okay, let me bring up her name because you guys should follow her. She is truly a good follow. Oh, my God. We're running up that hill. Elena's like the way Stranger Things is fucking rad and so is it Kate Bush. It is.

It's Kate Bush. Guys, if you, oh, I want to talk to you guys about Stranger Things. This season is so fucking good. I know. Elena's made me convert. I was like, I don't know, because I've never seen Stranger Things, but I think I'm going to go home and watch that tonight. I showed Ash one scene and she was like, okay.

I'm in. I am in. It was like the SpongeBob me and I was like, I'm a head out. I'm a head out. Back to my house. But either way, sorry about that. I opened TikTok and that was playing. Don't be sorry.

That's a great song. So there is a creator on TikTok. Her name is horror goth mommy. Hell yes. Four. And her at there is Jamie J-A-M-I-E-13, the number 13, horror. Okay. So follow her because she does really good videos on all kinds of spooky shit.

And I believe she has a podcast as well. And I will link it. I was going to say, if you go to. her actual page it might be in her like a link tree or something yeah it could be but we'll link it i don't know i'll link it i'll and then we'll say it on the podcast like next next episode just in case you miss the show notes i'll make sure to give her her due because she's pretty rad i'm going to be honest but she did a video um where apparently and this is like just wild a bunch so 250 50 Egyptian sarcophagi have been dug up.

Yeah. Hundreds of bronze statues were found with them. Like relics. Relics. Just artifacts. They found two statues of the goddesses, ISIS and neftus, which were like put at the head and feet of the sarcophagi. And they are to protect them, which like, oof.

Yeah, don't remove those guys. There was also a roll of papyrus found that was like 32 feet long. And according to Jamie, they're being like, it's being like studied in a lab right now. But it could have parts of the book of the dead in it, which is like not good. And like, let's not fuck with things like that. She was saying how, you know, in Egypt, that is like grave robbing and disturbing the dead. And especially a pharaoh, she said. Exactly.

It's one of the worst things you can do. And one of the only things that could be punishable by death. choosing. So this is like real bad. And like I don't know why we keep doing this. I understand that we want to learn about shit. Like I get it. Trust me. I'm a curious fuck. There's a way of going about it that is not this. That's the thing. It's just you don't need to disturb grapes. Yeah. It's there's, I understand like history and I understand we have to learn about history. I understand it's fascinating to learn about like cultures from like thousands and thousands of years old. Because these are like 2,000, 3,000 years old.

Yeah. But it's like, eke. And it's like, especially when this particular culture has made it pretty known how they feel about grave robbing. Yeah. Not that we're good. I don't know. Grave rob. And it's like either way disturbing the dead.

Exactly. Like some cultures didn't think that that was that big of a deal. Like when you die, you die. And that's fine. Like disturb the grave. Take a peek. Like there's something that think that. Mm-hmm.

But when one is like very clear. Clear. Like there's feelings. That's when it gets hairy. But yeah, that was just like a wild thing. And I was like, oh, no, this is why everything sucks. Because, like, curses are probably being just, like, flooded into the world. Right.

Like, watch the mummy. There's, how many? There's, like, four. Is there, like, three movies about this? All I know is that I saw the mummy way too young and I only saw one of them because that movie fucked me right up. I only saw. saw the first one because the first one was great. I never saw the other ones. It was scary.

The first one was really, really great. Yeah. Scary if you're like seven or eight though. Yeah. Yeah, I could. But like, but like, cool. But like, very cool. Yeah. But yeah, so we have that to look forward to. That's about as true crimey news as I'm going to get this week. But yeah, and I think, you know, we're 12 minutes in. Yeah, I think we can start the case. But it was great catching up with you guys. Yeah, you know, every once in a while, we got to just catch up. We got to do it. You got chit-chat. You know? Listen, I know there's 24 hours in a day, but where do they go? I feel like I don't have them.

I never have them. They go away in like the blink of an eye, and I definitely have trouble finding time to work out and just try to eat healthy and stay healthy, all that good stuff. But you know what has helped me? You know what is invaluable in this journey? My Peloton. I found Bradley Rose, and I never looked back. I'm telling you, get on there.

Find Bradley Rose. He's British. He's lovely, and he'll have you on that bike every single day. Just listen to him talk. He just tells you stories and stuff. He's great. But I'm telling you, I love my Peloton. I've told you this a million times.

This is one thing that I'm like so, so passionately wanting to tell you all about because I love it. And it has truly changed the way I work out. Because Peloton has a team of world-class instructors ready to motivate you 24-7. And I think we could all use that. I need motivation to work out. If you don't tell me to work out, I'm not going to do it. And I know it's super, super important. But the Peloton instructors are highly trained fitness pros who motivate you through every single workout.

Whether you're a regular at the gym, which is not me, or someone who is kind of new or getting back into working out, which is like both me. I'm like new at cycling, but I'm getting back into like the whole workout thing because I used to work out like a little bit. But whatever your fitness level, Peloton instructors don't just teach. They motivate and you need it. And another thing, if it's not fun, why would you even do it? Because you're more likely to stick with something like a routine if you enjoy it. So Peloton makes every single class fun. It just feels like you're hanging out with friends.

Me and Bradley are friends. I'm holding on to that. He doesn't know it yet, but we are. Nothing gets you moving like the perfect song to in every Peloton class is set to the best playlist. That's my favorite part is searching out a good playlist to listen to and they kill it. You're in the mood for a ride full of clubbangers? Ash? Of course you are. I love club bangers. You are. Everybody in the club getting tips.

An EDM run? Yeah. Chris, what's up? A yoga flow class with soul music? I want you. Whatever you're into. You'll find the perfect soundtrack for your workout on Peloton. I found a Bowie class. It changed my life, guys. So right now is the perfect time to try out Peloton. The Peloton Bike Plus is now $500 less. It's best price yet. everybody, including free delivery and setup. And there are more game-changing prices available on the original Peloton bike and Peloton Tread. Visit Onepeloton.com to learn more. All right. So with that, we are going to be talking about the case of Fatty Arbuckle. Yeah, we are. And Virginia Rapay. I do want to give a little warning about this episode. It

is going to be talking about possible rape. Okay. And it gets pretty intense. So if that's not something that you're comfortable listening to, I completely understand. And we'll see you for a spooky episode later on. The day after tomorrow. Exactly. And also just another note, a lot of times, I feel like any case that I've listened to or any

episode that I've listened to about this, like he's called fatty, but he didn't like being called fatty. Oh, really? And he was acquitted for this crime. I don't know if he did it either way. But I don't want to call somebody fatty that didn't want to be called. Altbat. Okay. So interchangeably, I'm going to say Roscoe and Arbuckle, depending on what I wrote in that paragraph. Love that. Just so everybody knows and you're not confused. Thank you for setting it out.

So Roscoe Arbuckle was born on March 24th, 1887 in a small Kansas town. His parents were Molly and William Goodrich and they were of Scottish descent. And by the time they had him, they already had eight other kids. Okay. Many, many children. He was the youngest. And when he was the youngest, and when he was born it was like kind of a scandal oh because he was born depending on the source weighing between 13 and 16 pounds. Damn you've given birth so um please just imagine that for a second. No, I won't. 13 to like either with 13 and 16 are essentially like the same to me in a baby.

I mean that actually if it was 16. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. That's like I don't I don't know what weighs 16 pounds. My biggest baby was eight pounds. you're so cute yeah but the thing was both of his parents had like a slim build oh and so did all of the other children up into this point and there was eight of them so they were like okay so his father william was absolutely convinced that mollie had stepped out on him oh no and that the baby was somebody else's in fact that's actually how rossko got his name his father was so pissed and angry over the possibility that this kid wasn't his and And to him, it wasn't even a possibility. He was like, no, you're not my kid. So he, instead of, like, taking it on the chin,

he decided to take his anger out on this newborn baby and name him after a Republican senator that he absolutely despised called Roscoe Conkling. Are you kidding me? Yeah. So Roscoe Arbuckle, his middle name was Conkling, just like this guy. Are you? What?

How do you take it out on the kid? What is wrong with you? That's the thing. Like, weird coping, sir. Yeah. Ridiculous. Now, Molly had a really hard time after Roscoe's birth, too, because again, this is the 1800s, and she just gave birth to a, like, 13 to 16-pound baby. That's going to take a toll on your physical health.

Yeah, I would say so. So incredibly traumatic birth, and for the rest of her life, she struggled with health complications. Oh, I believe it. Pretty much, I would say, because of this. And she died 12 years later. Aw. And at that point, William, the father, cut Rosco off immediately. Oh my God, he's 12 years old.

12 years old. And he was like, cool, make your own way in life. Oh, my God. So since he had to support himself now, Rasko got a job at a local hotel, and he was kind of just doing like maintenance jobs, anything they really had for him to do. He was like, I'm 12, I'll do it. So he loved to sing while he was working.

So the patrons of the hotel would always hear him. I don't know, maybe they'd give him like a dime or something. Yeah. And maybe that was too expensive. I'm not sure. You're like, I don't know what a dime was back then. Who knows? But one day, there was actually a professional singer staying at the hotel.

and they heard Rosco singing, and they were so impressed with his skill, like so impressed that they invited him to sing at this local talent show. Now Roscoe, he went along and he did a little singing, he did a little dancing. And that didn't really, like, do the trick for the audience. They weren't really feeling it. So he kind of started to, like, act out the song a little bit, kind of like a clown. Getting like goofy. Yeah, getting goofy with it.

The audience wasn't impressed with that either. And now this was like the kind of show where if the audience like, or heckled or just like made no noise, the person on stage would be pulled off with like with a cane, with a little bo-pee poke hook. Oh my God. I guess the real name is a shepherd's crook, yeah, but I wanted to, I wanted to paint a picture for you. Yeah. Since the audience is booing and heckling, heckling, excuse me, Roscoe saw the crook coming from the corner of his eye. And instead of letting it pull him off stage, he was like, fuck that. He, I don't know why, but decided to do a somersault off the stage, lands in the orchestra pit, and the crowd goes fucking wild.

Who doesn't love, like, physical comedy? They do. And apparently, that was, like, his thing. He was, like, because he was a bigger dude. He was, like, very big stature. But he was so nimble and, like, graceful. Like, he would do these somersaults and land on his feet or, like, fall down, but in a weird graceful way.

Like, it was weird. So as he tumbled off stage, they lost it. They were doubling over with laughter. and they actually voted him to win the competition. Oh my God. Yeah. It's because of his somersault. Because that's somersault, man.

So that night pretty much started his career in vaudeville. Now, we've talked about vaudeville before, but maybe you're a first-time listener. Welcome. We love a vaudeville. And if you're unfamiliar with the term, vaudeville originated in France pretty much right after the start of the 20th century. And it was this type of theater where the actors would sing, they'd dance, they do kind of comedy acts. They were really like lighthearted acts.

Yeah, like very physical comedy acts, right? Yes, very much so. They were always lighthearted. They were always comedy-centered, which makes sense because vaudeville originates from the French word, and I'm really trying here, but I'm new to French. I'm new to French. Not really. I've been working on it for a while, but it's hard. You're giving it a try. Vodvere, I believe, and that means satirical song. Oh, there you go. So the first songs of that kind of nature, they were written actually in the 15th century by a man named Olivier Baseline, and he lived in the Valley of Vire. So when anybody would refer to the songs, they were called Songs of the Valley of Vire, but then eventually shortened to Vodvier. Oh, okay. Just for a little history moment. I like that. I like that a lot. I did too. The dudes from Wizard of Oz. Like all my dudes were vaudevillians. Oh, shit, really? The guys who played like, you know, the lion, the Tin Man. Yeah. They were all are d'autchastic kids. A dot testic. Our dot kids. A dot kids, yes. No hat. No Hot. Oh, I love the ad. So, Ross, I wonder if they met. Probably not. Because I don't think that timeline

matches up. Probably not, but you know, whatever. Anyways, Rasko's first part in a vaudeville show was with the Webster Brown Stock Company. And from then until about 1913, when he turned 26, he was doing all kinds of stage acting. He would do acrobatics. He'd act as a clown. Of course, he would sing for the audience. But his really first, like, good paying job came when he was 17 years old. And he was hired by a man named Sid Gromman to sing at the unique theater in San Jose, California. And for this, he would get about 18 bucks a week. Today, that would be like 580 bucks a week. And I can promise you that I wasn't making that at 17 years old. Definitely not. So I'd say that's a pretty good gig. Oh, yeah. Now, the last time that he

appeared on stage, though, was 1913 in Japan. In that part, he played the role of Mikado or the emperor of Japan. Okay. Now, after that, he goes back to Hollywood. He gets a job at Max Senate's Keystone Film Studio, and then that was a huge upgrade, because now he was making about 40 bucks a week. Damn. Which today would be, like, making 1,200 bucks a week. Damn. Pretty nice.

Yeah. Now, strangely enough for, like, the first, like, three and a half years there, he didn't get any leading roles or features. He would just kind of be in the background, like, as an uncredited actor, and he would always play the role of a policeman. I think they just were, like, you make a look about him. You make a great cop. But, so the thing was, it was, like,

that was kind of like a weird point in his career because he wasn't like the leading man. But it would kind of allow him to meet some of the biggest names in Hollywood at the time. I don't know if you've heard of a Charlie Chaplin. No, never heard of him. No, no. Well, Arbuckle did. Oh, well, that's good. He met Charlie.

He met Charlie. He met Charlie. He met Charlie. And he also met Mabel Norman and Ford Stirling. And I guess his films with Mabel always did the best. She was Godge. It's Mabel, you know? They were just some fan faves.

Now, not only was Arbuckle. a good actor on camera. He also was pretty good behind the camera. And throughout his career, he would work with like big name directors a lot. And he actually worked with this guy named Henry Lerman a lot to the point where he only did two movies where Henry wasn't the director. Wow. He really loved him. So Henry started teaching Roscoe all about what went into making a movie. And over time, Roscoe started learning more and more about getting involved in the behind the scenes kind of stuff. and then the films that he was appearing in, he was also doing director stuff as well. So he was in both parts.

Look at him. And in 1914, he started directing his own movies. Get it. And like I said in the beginning, one thing that he absolutely hated was the nickname that he was given by Hollywood. They always called him fatty, like constantly. And that was the name listed whenever he got a film credit. It was Fatty Arbuckle. Oh, that must suck.

Which is shitty. If you don't like that, you know. Right. But anywhere. else, like if somebody yelled after him on set and they were like, Thaddy, he wouldn't turn around an answer. Wow. Like, it was Roscoe or nothing. I know. It's sad. Yeah, because you just assume that that was something he, like, played into or liked or, like, he played into it, but he had to. Well, and the thing is he, like, he did, but he didn't, because he never wanted his size to be the butt of a joke. So,

all the physical comedy that he did, like I said in the beginning, it was more like doing somersaults or falling down in a silly way, but it was never something like being stuck in a, his space because he was too big for it or anything like that. And like I said, a lot of people would comment on how agile he was, like very graceful guy. Yeah, look at that. Now, once 1917 came around, he started working with a very big name producer. This guy was Joseph M. Schenck. Okay. And he was the husband of Norma Talmalge. And they decided to create a company together called Comique. Ooh. Like Comical. Oh, I like it. But Comique. Now, The company not only made him richer than he'd ever been, but also allowed him to be involved

in every single one of his roles from start to finish the entire film. And it was at that point that he started working with, I don't know if you've heard of this guy either. Buster Keaton? No. None of these names are ringing a bell. I know, it's the craziest thing. No, everybody.

If you are like into like this time, you totally know that he was huge. So since Comique was doing really well, even more of the big name producers in Hollywood, would, we're starting to hear more about this Arbuckle character, and they're interested in working with him. So among some of those big name producers were Paramount Pictures. Oh. They approached him, and they were like, hey, would you ever want to do some long movies instead of like the two real shorts that you're doing right now? Because those were more just kind of like short films. Yeah. You want to do some of those long movies? Those long reels? And he was like, I do. And the first feature film that he did with them was the Roundup. It premiered in 1920. And all. And all. And it was a lot. And

audiences were obsessed. They were in love with this guy. Wow. It was just like he must have had some kind of just like star quality. Like people were really just, they gravitated to him. He had charisma. He did. Charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent. There you go. When you're running a small business, every single second counts. You literally can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking the time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using Stamps.com instead? Stamps.com makes mailing and shipping easy, quick, and cost effective. It saves your time, money, and stressed. And now, for more than 20 years, Stamps.com has been indispensable for over a million businesses. Stamps.com gives you access to all of the post office and UPS

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No long-term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the page, and enter code morbid. So Paramount's opening offer for this contract that he signed with them was $1,000 a day. Whoa. At that time. And on top of that, he would get a contract. get 25% of all the royalties from every movie he did. Holy shit.

That was the starting deal. But then they saw how well he was doing and how well received these movies were. Now you get some leverage. You get some leverage. They bumped his salary up to $3 million for three years and 18 more movies. Holy shit. I mean, that's crazy now. But for back then...

You want to know what that would be like today? I love a conversion. You do. So $3 million back then would have been like making 43 million. dollars today. Wow. Forty-three million buccarities. And when you think of like what like things cost back then and everything like that, that's

wild. He was richer than yeah, than everybody. And he was one of the most beloved actors of his time until September of 1921 when it all came crashing down. I was waiting for the downfall here. There's always a downfall. I don't know like anything about this. Neither did I.

This is brand new to me. Neither did I. but I love an old Hollywood case, and this is like the old Hollywood case, to be honest. Yeah. It's wild. So, and it's really devastatingly sad. So it's Labor Day weekend and one of Rosco, or excuse me, Rasko and two of his friends, Fred Fishbach and Lowell Sherman, who were two very seedy, disgusting characters, unfortunately.

And I think it might be one of those things where it's like, the company you keep reflects really badly on you. You are who you hang with. Or it could be that, like, you are who you hang out with and you're all. also a creep. I haven't made a complete decision on what I think here. Okay. But I'm sure listening you will and let me know what you think. Yeah. So these three guys, they decide to go head out to San Fran for a long weekend. And they're planning on throwing an absolute banger to celebrate the success of Roscoe's new movie, Crazy to Mary. So they check into the St. Francis Hotel and they grab three rooms. They

grab 1219, 1220, and 1221. One would be used to party hardy and the other would kind of to be like bedrooms to crash in. Okay. Now remember, these were still prohibition times, so they had to sneak in a shit ton of booze because they were going to be planning on having a wild party. And how did they hide those booze? Roscoe had this like fancy schmancy car that had a hidden bar inside. Oh my God, stop.

The prohibition of it all. You pressed a button and like a fucking bar popped out. Yeah. Can you want my car. Why doesn't my car have a hidden bar? That's wild. I feel remiss. I mean, I do think that's like probably very illegal.

I was going to say, I can tell you a few reasons why your car doesn't happen as far. Number one. But illegal. So when you think of it back then without like all the speakeasies and prohibitions. Yes. And I don't know there was like a lot of bad shit back then. But like that much bad shit kind of like great Gatsby of it all kind of thing is very fun. It's so, oh, wow, that was so much sunlight.

Yeah, you just got sun right in your eyes. I did. It wiped my mind clear for a second. It was like the men in black like, boom. I was just going to say that. No, it's funny though that you said great Gats. Because all I could picture, especially this part of, like, them driving up to the party was them driving to the party in the Great Gatsby. Where, um, is it Mabel?

Yeah. And it's funny because there's a Mabel in this. Hey, look at that. Wild. But anyway, it's giving me those vibes. So at this party, there was going to be some of the biggest stars and starlets of all time, including one Virginia Rappay. Virginia Rappay was a model, an actress, and a fashion designer. Oh, it's not Mabel.

It's Mertle. Oh, Mirdle. That's why I was, I was confused because I was like, wait, no, it's not Mabel. You know what's so funny? I was like, is there a Mabel? Because I heard Mabel when you mentioned her before. And I was like, oh, yeah, it's Mabel. Yeah.

Mnames are hard. Fair. Yeah. So Virginia, that's not an Mname. That's easy to remember. She was a model and actress, a fashion designer. She had been born in Chicago. Oh, my God.

And was raised by her mother, Mabel. Whoa. Until she was about 11. But unfortunately, that was how young she was when her mom passed away. Oh, it's really young. It's so young. But she was sent to live with her grandma. But she wasn't really too keen on staying in Chicago for the rest of her life.

Just like all of these cases that I cover, she knew she was different. She knows she has star quality. She's also fucking gorgeous. Google a picture. Oh, yeah. So when she's just... What's her name, Virginia? Virginia Rappet.

It's RAPE. And fun fact, she actually added the extra P&E onto the end of her name because she thought it was fancier. I think when she was born, it was just rap, but she wanted Rappet. I love that. So she's 14 years old now. she's like, I got to get out of Chicago, I got to make it big. So she starts posing for fashion designers and any artists who might need a muse. Now, it was good practice for her eventual plan

of heading out to California to be discovered, which she would set out to do once she turned 18. But before making her way out to Hollywood, she decided to try out San Francisco for a while. And when she was there, she met up with a designer named Robert Moskowitz. He would be her first fiance and he would teach her a ton about fashion but the engagement was short-lived because he was actually killed in a car accident oh so sad it was like whirlwind i was just going to say that's like i know and it's sad because it's like she makes it out there she meets this guy he she starts getting into fashion they fall in love they're going to get married and then it's like it all comes crashing yeah then it's just all over so at that point she's like no like i'm not going to let this ruin me

she decides to move once again and finally ends up where she planned unsettling all along. Hollywood. Hollywood? Now, you know I said this girl was gorge. She was. I just looked her up. She's the epitome of beauty as far as anybody is concerned, but specifically during this time in Hollywood, she was like the poster child of beauty. Yeah. So it was not hard for her to find work. She had like these intense blue eyes, this like beautiful dark hair, impeccable style, because remember she's a fucking fashion designer. Of course. And she looked young enough to pass for 25 when really she was 30. Get it.

But she would always tell people. Get those younger roles. She would tell them she was 25. Now, throughout her career, she would end up being featured in 13 movies. And in some of those movies, you're going to love this. She starred alongside Rudolph Valentino. I. There's a photo of them together.

Love Rudolph Valentino. As do I. But you. Yeah, one of my first research papers ever in school, I did the most intense research paper on Rudolph Valentino, I know everything there is to know about that man. I love that so much. He was a beautiful man. A beautiful, beautiful, man. Yeah, just so great. So you're probably really jealous of that. I am a little bit. I don't mind. She started, I'm looking them up right now and I'm like, it's a picture of them in a car together. All the pictures from like this time are so cool.

Oh, get it, girl. Now, other than Rudolph Valentino, she also actually did a wedding with Arbuckle. And this was called his wedding night. Now, he apparently really took a liking to her, according to some people, during the filming of this. And I guess while they were filming this movie, and this is hearsay, so we don't know if this is true or not. But I guess while they were filming, he wanted to, quote, unquote, play a prank on her. And he asked the security guard for the key to her room. But luckily, the security guard, like, wouldn't give the key to the room. He was like, no, I cannot do that.

No. But when you find out what happens later, I think a lot of people were like, Did that have ulterior motives, which I can see. Now, before we got there, we just, we need to know that Virginia became known as the best, best dressed girl in pictures. And she was also known as entrepreneurial, idealistic, and outspoken, like for women's rights. So she was a bad bitch. I was just going to say, so a bad bitch is what you're saying. She was the first person to speak up about any causes close to her heart.

And they were nine out of ten times women's rights. women's rights causes. Good for her. A bad bee. Truly. So she arrives at this party. And it's, I just am going to tell you right here, this is where things start to get yucky. And again, if you don't want to listen to that, now is the time that I would really advise you to stop listening.

Oh, poor Virginia. So she arrives at the party with her manager, Al, who's actually a really good friend of Rosco's to Al Samnacher. And her friend, Bambina Maude Delmont. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes Bambina Maude Delmont wanted to be called Bambina Maude Delmont, but she also had like other names and shit. She was a shady bitch. Oh, man.

I mean, I would always want to be called Bambina Mod Belmont. Delmont. Oh, Delmont, excuse me. She might have been known as Bambina Belmont as well. But I would be like always refer to me as that. Yeah. Never as just Bambina. Give me the full.

Also, I didn't realize this until now, but like three names. I'm just saying. You know what we say about three names. what we say. She turns out to be quite truly something. Oh, no. So the trio, they get to the hotel around 10.30 that morning. And by all accounts, they got to partying real quick, which like fucking all the power to them. Yeah, you might get caught. It's from a vision time. You got to party when you can. And it's a summer party. Like, let's go. Honestly, if they got caught, it would have been probably fine because they're all rich and powerful. I was going to say they're all rich and powerful. It doesn't really matter, but whatever. Whatever. So at some point during the party, I guess Virginia started complaining that she couldn't breathe and that she wasn't feeling well. Oh, get her home. Get her home, exactly. Thank you. My friend says that.

I'm like, all right, let's go home, girl. All right, cool. Let's go. Or, like, we'll get another room here. We'll get a fancy suite for you to sleep in, a comfy bed. Let's do it. I'd be like, you want to go home? Let's go home.

I'll take you home. I'll watch some reality TV with you. Yeah, back in 1920. Yeah, I wonder what that would have been. Absolutely. I'm just like trying to think of anything that could be. Let's watch the latest Valentino film. Let's sit down.

Let's have a night of it. And Virginia's like, I'm in that one. It's weird. And I'd be like, it's fine. Let's do it anyway. I love it. So she's saying she can't breathe. She's pulling at her clothing and she starts kind of like ripping her clothes.

It's like she wants to rip them off. Oh, geez. And this point forward, from this point forward, there's like three different versions of events. There's actually really like 305. But for the sake of the story, I'll say three. This person's story, that person's story, and the truth. There is Roscoe Arbuckle side of things. Maude Delmoin's point of view.

And then somewhere in the middle of those two accounts, the truth, which is still hotly debated. We know each other really well. God damn. We know each other really well. It's becoming so much more real lately. Elena and I keep saying things at the, it's not only that we're saying things at the same time. Like that's one thing. We say them in the exact same inflection. Yeah. And I just want to punch you. It would be like, get out of my head. It's true. And I'm sure you feel the same. We're in each other's souls at this point.

You are one of my soul at this point. I'm one of your old souls. No, you're not old. That's me. It's, I thought you said, that's mean. And I was like, but you said it. No, not mean at all. Are you in there? I'm in there. Okay. So one way or another, Virginia ends up in one of the adjoining rooms with Roscoe and potentially a few other people at some point.

Now, thinking that she just had too much to drink, I guess they placed her in a cold tub. But at that point, it really seemed like she was only like riding around in pain even more. Yeah, guys. Yeah, they think she's drunk. She's definitely more than drunk. She starts vomiting. Oh. And at that point, she was brought in.

to the bed and they prop her up and she's clutching her stomach and she's screaming in pain until somebody calls the hotel's doctor. Does she have like appendicitis or something? No. What is going on? I'll tell you. Oh man. I'm worried for her.

I just want to be like, help. Yeah, that's the thing. Now, like I just told you she's screaming in pain, clutching her stomach, like moving her whole body around in pain. The hotel doctor thought that she was just drunk and moved her into one of the other rooms after giving her some morphine to sleep it off. Oh, okay. I'm like, wait.

Do some morphine about it. You think she's drunk, like, she's like way too drunk, in your opinion. So you're going to give her morphine to top that off? So you drug her on top of it? Like, Jesus. Yikes, guys. So she would spend the next three days in that hotel room, but each day she only got worse. And finally, after those three days, somebody calls another doctor.

It ends up being believed that it was Maude Delmont, who calls this actual doctor. doctor, or not that the hotel hotel doctor was not, but just a different one. Yeah. And Virginia was rushed to the hospital. Now, when she first got there, those doctors thought that it was possibly a case of alcohol poisoning because from what they've heard, she's been partying,

she's, you know? Yeah, I get that. But they start evaluating her more and more, and they find that she's actually suffering from something called peritinotis. Oh. Did I say that correctly? Peritonitis? Google says, you are correct. It's parotinitis. It looks

way more intimidating than it is. I was going to say there's like an extra tea in there or something. There is. It's like very weird. So parotinitis. Yeah, it's rough. It occurs when there's some kind of infection that's also present. And essentially it swells a protective layer that covers your abdominal wall. Yeah. And that layer protects not only your like whole ass organ. No, it protects your organs. I was going to say it protects all of your internal organs. Like everything. It's a layer like that membrane. Yes. Now. In Virginia's case, her bladder had ruptured, and that's what caused that infection that then led to the intense inflammation.

Oh, my goodness. So just the thought of that alone. Because that membrane's called the peritoneum. That's why it's peritonitis. Because you said you saw that a lot, right? Yeah, we would see it a lot in autopsies. Oh, man. It was like, I shouldn't say it's like a very common thing, but I would see it.

Common enough that you've seen it. I can't even imagine. That's gnarly. Yeah. And the fact that she just like showed up at a party and was like struck by it. Right. And that's the thing like, and it's like, did she show up at the party and she was struck by it or did something happen at the party that caused it? Interesting. But either way, unfortunately, by the time they realized what was causing her so much pain, it was too late. Oh, that kind of infection? Like, and especially way back then. Like they just gave her morphine about it.

Yeah. She died in the hospital on September 9th, 1921. Man. I know. Virginia seemed like such a cool lady. She did. Now, some sources suggest that she was 26 when she died, but other people said that she did fib about her age. So she was probably more like 30 or 31, but either way, incredibly young. Yeah.

And at the peak of her career. That's the thing. She was only going up, you know? No, and she just seemed rad. She did. She really did. You just want to hang with her? I very much do.

Now, immediately, the rumor mill went absolutely bonkers. Yeah. And at the hospital, a distraught friend wanted to talk to the police who were already trying to make sense of how this whole night had turned into what it did. Yeah, it's very strange. Now, that friend was Maude Delmont. She ends up calling the police and she's telling them that they need to talk to a man that she named as Fatty Arbuckle. Oh. Her words, not mine.

She said that he was the one responsible for Virginia's death. So you see, the version of events where Roscoe and Virginia ended up in the same room went to live. differently through Mod's point of view and a few other people's point of view, and we'll get to that when we get to some other stuff. Maud told the police that she had seen Roscoe and Virginia chatting, and she watched as they had about three mixed drinks together. Now, at some point during their chat, Mod heard Roscoe tell Virginia, I've waited for you for five years, and now I've got you. And as he said that, he was pulling her into one of the nearby rooms and then shut and locked the door. Oh. And so Ma doesn't think much of this until she starts hearing screams coming from the room and she knows that this is her friend. So she starts banging on the door at that point and it's locked and she's like banging on the door, kicking out the door. He won't open it according to her. There's a one version where somebody had to come up and open the door. And then there's another version where he finally does open the door. But this next part is what's told consistently. He opens the door. He's wearing pajama bottle.

and a robe and Virginia's hat propped on his head at a quote-unquote comical angle. Like everybody said he was wearing her hat at a comical angle. Like off to the side. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of like artists renderings. Now she reported that he had a quote unquote foolish screen smile smeared across his face. And when she looked behind him, she claimed that she saw Virginia partially nude on the bed and clutching at her stomach.

and she was calling out to Maude, I'm dying, I'm dying, he did it, Arbuckle did it. What? Now, when asked what exactly Roscoe Arbuckle had done to Virginia, Maude claimed that he had raped her, and that the force of his much bigger body on top of Virginia's smaller frame had ruptured her bladder and eventually killed her. Oh my God. Yeah.

I had no idea that this was the case. Holy shit. Yes. Oh my God. If that is true, what an actually, like a horrific way to die. Horrific way. Like, and the fact that it was, it was not just immediate. Like, if that's how that happened, she was raped and then she suffered and was like screaming. Either way, she suffered. But then to add the potential rape on top of that. Potential trauma of even more trauma on top of it. Oh, my goodness. That is so horrific. That's an awful thing to think about. Now, Al Semnacher, again, one of Roscoe's good friends and Virginia's manager claimed that this was true. And he actually took the claim one step further. And I just want to let you guys know this is really rough. So I would

skip forward about 35 seconds, 45 seconds. He claimed that Roscoe had raped Virginia and also then used a piece of ice to rape her. And he was joking about it the next day with some men who had been at the party before. And Al Semnacher was among them. What the fuck? Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. This is horrific. It's really, really bleak. So the newspapers, they get this information. They get like a tidbit of it. And they go fucking bonkers. Like it's like the magazines of today. There were all kinds of salacious rumors spread and stories written because most of these newspapers that were spreading this information, they were more like gossip magazines. And a man named William Randolph Hearst, he actually owned like a solid chunk of these publications, like pretty much all.

of them. I know that name. And they were more like gossip columns than any kind of real newspaper. And he said that this whole scandal sold more papers than the sinking of the Lusitania. Okay. Yeah. That's great. Wow. That's one of the largest ships that was ever built, by the way, like during that time and it had sunk back in 1915. Really comparing two equally tragic, but entirely different occurrences here, my dude. Like, yeah, that's comparing apples to zebras. It definitely is. You're dumb. Wow. I remember listening to podcasts way back before we even had one, and I would hear all about the magic that was curology. And you know what? I'm going to be honest with you. Like I'm nothing if I'm not honest. I had my doubts, guys. I've tried so many different skincare routines.

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Let Audible help you discover new ways to laugh, be inspired, or be entertained. New members can try it free for 30 days. Visit Audible.com slash morbid or text morbid to 500,500. That's Audible.com slash morbid or text morbid to 500,500 to try Audible free for 30 days. Audible.com slash morbid. So some of the stories printed, they reported that, and of course, they go after Virginia immediately. They're saying she's a well-known party girl. And this night was really not anything out of the ordinary for her. They referred to her. They referred to her as an amateur call girl who, quote-unquote, would get drunk at parties and tear her clothes off.

Oh, my God. It's like, well, she's dead. Yeah. Like maybe. And potentially was essentially essentially murdered. Oh my God. But other stories started getting darker and taking those little rumors and blowing them up. And again, I would skip forward if you don't want to hear this. I'm going to give you like 45 seconds. This rumor that he had taken a piece of ice eventually just grew into this wildly different rumor that claimed a Coca-Cola can or a whiner champagne bottle had been used. Oh my God. Absolutely horrific. Holy shit. Now, whatever happened, the police knew that they were going to need to pay Roscoe Arbuckle of his. it, and they did. He was arrested on September 10th. Now, some sources claim that he actually turned himself in, and others say that he was just arrested.

So the second, his mugshot was available to the public, it was on the cover of every single one of these publications. Whether it was a gossip column or not, it was everywhere. I actually found a few old ones. Everybody started turning on him. They were thinking that he was a violent rapist. They were thinking

he's responsible for this woman's death. But at the same time, he still had supporters like Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton. They both gave interviews and they tried to clear his name. They said that Maude Delmont was a known liar and that she had been involved in her fair share of scandals, which were scandals designed to take men down, take rich men down. Okay. So it did make sense to some people that that may have been the case here. But at the end of the day, it was messy as fuck. Oh, and it only gets messier. Oh, boy. So at the end of the day, as we know, it's the police and the jury who are you he's going to have to convince.

So he has a very different story to tell the police than the one that they've gotten from mod and different partygoers. He, and he, the problem here too is that he tells multiple stories throughout the course of this entire investigation and trial, multiple trials. He first told them that he noticed Virginia at the party and he said that she was acting

hysterical. And he knew that she had a few drinks, so he chalked it up to just being drunk when he saw her start pulling clothes and take them off. He said that he'd actually never been alone with her and that he and some of the other partygoers carried her into one of the neighboring rooms. They placed her in that chilled tub. And then when nothing worked, they called the doctor. Now, he made it a point to emphasize that he had never been alone in a room with her. But the police were not convinced. And six days later, he was placed under arrest. Like, and that's the September arrest. Yeah. So later on in the legal

process, the charge was actually, the charge of murder, was reduced to manslaughter because they didn't think they were going to have enough physical evidence because they really didn't to make the legal teams confident that they'd reach the verdict they wanted to in a murder trial. And if they want to get them at all, they got to go for that lower one just to get them. Now, this sucks because it changes a few key pieces of his fate and the time he's going to serve. Because number one, now he could get out on bail. Whereas before, at this time, if you were facing murder charges, there was no bail. So he did get out on bail once the charges were reduced. Now, secondly, instead of facing an absolute mandatory sentence of death at this time, like you would have in a murder case,

since it was reduced to manslaughter, he would be facing if convicted 10 years maximum. Wow. Like for killing a woman. For her brutal death. Rape and murder. Wow. So the first of three, three trials ended on December 4th with the jury unable to come up with any agreement. Ten of them believed that he was innocent, but two could not decide. So a mistrial was declared, and the next jury heard the evidence all over again. Strangely enough, the second trial ended up being completely different than the first, with nine jurors convinced that Roscoe had been responsible for Virginia's death, and three this time convinced of his innocence.

So it totally flipped. Now, the third trial started in March, and it went very differently than the first. the first two. This time he went with a completely different stories, a completely different story, excuse me. And he also let his lawyers really kind of go into Virginia and, you know, paint her as not a responsible party goer, to put it lightly. That's always the cheapest way to go about a defense. It is. You know what I mean? Like when you have to turn the other person who's not there to defend themselves into something else, it's like, it's so complicated because I feel like you, like it should shouldn't be admissible. Like, she's not here to say it for herself. It's hard. There's so many

complexities to this kind of stuff, but that always rubs me. It's just such a gray area, you know? It's just when they're, again, when they're not here to defend themselves, it's like a really hard path to take there. And to me, it just feels yucky. It does. And I do feel like a lot of times it does sway the jury because the person isn't there to say yes or no to that. And it's human, we are humans. Yeah. Everybody is fought. Juries are flawed. Judges are flawed. The whole system is flawed. Justice teams are flawed. Like anything that Morbitt has taught us is that the system, all the systems are flawed. So there's always human emotion and everything.

Regardless of when you're not supposed to have it, it's there. Exactly. So he lets them lay into her and paint her completely terribly, to be honest. So in this version of events, and again, he has that new story, he tells the jury this time that he finds Virginia laying on the bathroom floor, moaning, vomiting, and calling out in pain. Now, he said, again, that she's clinging at her stomach. So he grabs her a glass of water and then carries her on the bed to make her more comfortable. Then he said as he was getting her onto the bed, Maud just like came into the room, like burst in and starts accosting him, telling him to get away from Virginia, leave her alone. And he testified that he told her to shut up or he would throw her out the window.

Wow. Okay. So he did say that. He admits that. Now it's interesting that he would bring that like specific quote up because originally Maud told the police that he had threatened to throw. of Virginia out the window. And actually, multiple other witnesses agreed that they heard the same thing where it was at Virginia's expense. Oh. So much he said, she said. There is. It's such a confusing case because I don't know, I want you guys to let me know, like, if you had a hard time

deciding what you think here. Because right now, I'm like, what the hell's going on? Totally. I just don't even know. Is he now claiming he was alone with her for some period of time? Yes. Okay. So he changed that completely. To me, when it changes like that, I'm like, that's guilt. That's guilt right there. Or, yeah. It's hard to get away from that when you change your story. And he changes it twice. Yeah.

So the witnesses were brought forward to corroborate this new version of Roscoe's story, and multiple said that the ice mentioned in the story did not have that dark story put behind it that so many of the newspapers had published. And instead they said that Maude was just rubbing ice across Virginia's stomach to see if it would alleviate any pain. Okay. Now, the medical examiner, Dr. Shelby Strange, was also called, testify. Also, Shelby Strange, are you kidding me? You are a medical examiner. No other choice but to be a medical examiner. That's a great name. Incredible. So called to testify about their findings and said

that Virginia most likely had a chronic bladder inflammation. Dr. Strange also testified that there were, quote, no signs that the girl had been attacked in any way. But with that being said, they also testified that there was bruising to Virginia's legs and to her upper arm. arms. In fact, the bruising to her upper arm looked like it had been made from, quote, the deep impression of fingers. Yeah, I just, I looked up stuff and I saw those autopsy photos. And my first thought when I saw those was those look like finger grips. And like, I don't know what else they would be. I don't know what else they would be. Because that's exactly what they look like to me. Unless they are claiming that that could have happened when they were moving her into the tub,

out of the tub, into the, you know what I mean? Like that would be dealing with, like that it's not a violent one and maybe it was just people gripping her to. And it could have been, again, she's of smaller stature. These are like bigger dudes lifting her up. You don't know, but. Interesting. This doctor needs to pick a lane because it's like you say that she looks like she hasn't been attacked, but then you say it looks like she has deep impressions in her arms,

which means like somebody probably would have been holding her down. But maybe that's what he's claiming is like it doesn't look to me like she was attacked. It looks to be like these are carry marks. True. Like he's probably saying, I don't see. an attack I see when she was being moved. Right, right. That's probably what he was meaning, at least. True. That makes sense. I didn't actually think of it that way. So thank you. You're welcome. Now, Dr. Strange, though, because everybody felt like he had given a conflicting testimony.

Yeah. But he was not the only person to give a conflicting testimony because a forensic expert in the trial, Edward Heinrich, stated to the jury that he'd seen both Virginia and Roscoe's fingerprints on the door handle of the hotel in that specific room. And he testified that it looked as though Roscoe's hand was placed over Virginia's on the knob, which then led him to believe it was like she tried to grasp it during an escape and he had stopped her with his much bigger hand, leaving both prints behind. Do you get that picture? Yeah, I definitely get that. I'm just like, how the hell could you tell that? Yeah. Like, who would that go? So it was in the original trial that he testified that in the first two.

And the third trial retracted his original testimony and said, I think those might have been faked, those fingerprints. And by the way, a maid testified that she had cleaned that door handle anyway, so there wouldn't have been fingerprints on it. All right. So that might have just been like he said, she said. Yeah, kind of seems that. Oh, the 1920s.

Oh, my. Now then, almost every witness who had testified against Roscoe in the first or second trial saying that Virginia told them he'd hurt her or raped her. they just disappeared off the grid in the third trial. Huh. Nobody could track them down, and the ones who were tracked, retracted their original statements. Then you wonder if there's some, like, many, many people thought that they were either

intimidated or paid off. That's exactly what I was going to be like, by the third trial, I'm sure he's getting, he's rounding up some people to be like, he's getting desperate. Take care of people here. Yes, absolutely. But at the same time, it was then discovered that four of the, the prosecution's witnesses had some secrets of their own. One of them who was supposed to be testifying about Virginia's character turned out to be a very close friend of Rosco's, so their

testimony about Virginia was voided. Oh my God, what is going on here? Another woman who testified negatively about Virginia, like in her supposed party girl ways, she said that Virginia came to her hotel quite frequently and had a habit of getting drunk and ripping her clothes off. Turns out there was literally no record of Virginia ever being at that hotel. Huh. Whatsoever. Now, on the same token, there were witnesses on the prosecution, and I think I actually flipped that.

I was going to say, so that was defense. Sorry, yes. That was defense. On the same token, there were witnesses that the prosecution used in the first trial and second trial, who came out in the third trial and said that they had been forced by the prosecution to give false testimony. Huh. This whole thing is fucked.

Yeah, that's like really kind. complex. And the, like, now I'm like, what the fuck? Because everybody just seems to be lying. Knowing the defense witnesses are lying about like her being shitty. That to me is more dire than the prosecution's lying that she's not shitty. Like it's like, you know what I mean? Like, if you have to make people lie to like make her bad, that's worse to me. Yeah. But it's all bad. It's all just really bad. But yeah. Like, realistically, all three of these trials were absolute shit shows in their own way. This is a circus.

And they really did nothing other than smear Virginia Rapes' name right alongside with a man who was literally on trial. Yeah. Like, he's the one on trial. Why are we, like, smearing her name? Yeah, exactly. Or turning her into a villain here? Right. Like, she's not here right now.

So let's not. Now, the biggest win for the defense was when they uncovered what they probably considered a fucking gold mine of information against someone. someone who had originally been considered their star witness. Oh. The prosecution star witness. Maude Delmont. I knew it. Of course.

Her name's Maude Delmont. Of course you're going to find some shit on her. Some shady shit's going on. Bambina Maude Delmont. Are you kidding me? She apparently had a bit of a secret life that coincided with her alter ego, Madam Black. Uh-oh.

Madam Black would go out and find young attractive women to take to parties that were always being thrown by these, like, annoying ass rich. dudes. Yeah. So they'd go, they enjoyed their party, but then they would later on make claims that they'd been raped at the party, even if they had not been. Now, the goal of the entire operation was to blackmail these men into paying huge sums of money just to make the problem go away. Holy shit. So it's like a scam. Damn. Now, on top of that, she had also been reported for extortion and fraud in the past. Oh, damn. And it was also found out that she was in a bigamous marriage. And, when I heard that, I said, a big marriage. A big marriage? A big marriage? A big marriage. What's the

problem with that? She's, she's got a loving marriage. Yeah. Actually, what that means is that she married one man without divorcing from her last husband. So technically she had two husbands. And that was a big no-no back then. Oh, yeah. So both of these discoveries absolutely tore her character apart. And then another point was made to really drive the point home of how far she was willing to go to destroy a man's life. It turns out that she had sent notes to two of her friends right before Virginia died, like as she was actively dying. Apparently, they were sent about two days before on September 7th, and Modd wrote to these people, we have Roscoe Arbuckle in a hole here to make some money out of him.

Oh. Yep. Oh, that's bad. So, like, safe to say she actually wasn't asked back to testify after her original testimony. Oh, man. The prosecutors then had her name omitted for her. any witness list involved in these trials in all three of them. Oh, man.

Yeah. Because I also was, I was like, you know, did, because this one's hard. It's so hard. Thank you. Because I was like, am I like, am I, I don't even know. No. Because I also was wondering, I'm like, the whole time that she was like screaming and crying out and like people were around her, was she, she never said again, like, that

someone did this. So she did. She said to a couple people that he hurt her. Yeah, I thought she only said it to mod. She said it to mod and then she said to one nurse that he had hurt her. And she also said to the nurse. But she didn't use his name? She did use his name, but she didn't say he had raped her.

Just that he hurt her. He hurt her. And she also said to the nurse because she had a fiancé during this time. Oh. And she said to the nurse that it was imperative that her fiance not find out about any of this. Oh. Yeah. Oh, okay.

Which again only like adds a little more. adds a little more layers to that. It does. This is wild. It's so complicated. But then that nurse eventually retracted that statement. And that's the problem. Like I would find somebody's statement and then they'd retract it.

And then I'd be like, okay, well, I don't know what I think that. Like, is that real? Is it not? Yeah. So finally, on April 12th, 1922, it was time for this third jury to deliver their verdict in this manslaughter case. They only took five minutes to deliberate. And when they came back and read their verdict, they had found Roscoe, Arbuckle not guilty on charges of manslaughter and actually went as far as issuing him a public

apology. What? They said, acquittal is not enough for Roscoe Arbuckle. We feel that a great injustice has been done to him. There was not the slightest bit of proof adduced, adduced to connect him in any way with the commission of a crime. He was manly throughout the case and told, manly, like, okay. Get out of here.

and told a straightforward story, no, he didn't, which we all believe. We wish him success and hope that the American people will take the judgment of 14 men and women that Roscoe Arbuckle is entirely innocent and free from all blame. Okay. The American people did not feel the same way that the jury felt. I was going to be like, all right, let's see how that's shaked up for him. Yeah. Honestly, if he was truly innocent, then what happened to him in his career in the wake of these

trials is just another fucking tragedy. but if he's not, then like, cool, he deserved it. We have no idea. We don't know. There were still people out there, like a good amount of people, it seems like the majority, who believed that he was responsible for Virginia's death in some way and that he'd gotten away with murder. Yeah, I mean, that's tough. For a long, long time, nobody wanted to work with him.

And he was actually barred from working on any set for eight months after he was acquitted. He couldn't find acting work. And even when they lifted that ban after eight months, he like nobody would give him work. Of course, yeah. Guys, most of you have probably heard me sing the praises of pros, the world's most personalized hair care. And if you haven't, welcome.

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slash morbid. That's P-R-O-S-E.com slash morbid for your free in-depth hair consultation and 15% off. So since he couldn't get acting work, he started looking again more into directing, because like I said, he liked that too. And he started directing under the name William Goodrich. Now, he, somebody he had mentored, again, one of these big stars that maybe you've heard of, Buster Keaton. Oh, yeah, that guy.

We mentioned him before. We did. That's where the name William Goodrich came from. Buster Keaton had suggested, like, while Roscoe was still recovering from this blow to his career, that he used a name, will be good. Like, will the name be, period, and then good for the last name. Wow. So he was like, I think it's not a time to joke.

And instead, I'll do William Goodrich. Just to make it like a real name. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, okay. So, yeah, that's how that evolved. Now, in 1932, 11 years after Virginia's death, Roscoe finally got an opportunity to be back on the big screen.

Samuel Sacks, who was working with Warner Brothers, actually signed Roscoe on to appear in a short film called Hey Pop. Now, it was the first movie that Samuel Sacks had done that he used sound in, and it was a huge hit because people are stoked that they can hear these movies now. Sound. Now, after that, so he's in that, after that, he actually acted in six more shorts, excuse me, And everybody seemed to be responding pretty well to them. It's like, it really is one of those things. And it's so horrific that this happens. But I think it's one of those things where the news just like over the years goes away because other things happen that people become more invested in. And then like Virginia Rappe is forgotten.

Yeah. And this guy just gets to if he did kill her. Yeah. That's the hard thing. Right. If he did do this, this is fucked. And that's fucking foul. Right.

Like it was just allowed to be moved on. Like this isn't like, you. you know, he made a mistake. This is, he took somebody's life in a very horrific way. Potentially. Whether he intentionally did it or not, you got to be held responsible for it. And it's like, but if he didn't do it, it's like, ugh. Exactly.

So it's so hard. Right. So he starts acting in these shots. People are happy to see him on camera again. And over time, it was kind of like nothing had changed. He was still the quote unquote fatty Arbuckle that people loved and remembered. So the success of those films that he did like, when he started coming back, actually led Warner Brothers to write up a contract for a million dollars,

which would be $13 million today. So he signed that real quick, obviously, because he was like, I don't need my career to be in jeopardy again. And he goes out to celebrate with his friends. I said he signed it on June 28th. I don't know if he said anything. He did. He goes out and hangs with his friends after that. He apparently told them, this is the best night of my life.

And that night, he died in his sleep at just 46 years old. of a heart attack. Damn. This is the bleakest story. Holy shit. Of ever. Not of ever, but it's really fucking bleak. That's really bleak.

Yeah. Because what, if he didn't do it, holy shit. He went through so much. And finally got that contract. And then died. And if he did do it, you're like, whoa, that's some universe shit right there. Okay.

That's kind of what I was thinking, because I don't know if you listen to the show, but if you do, then you know that a million. If you listen to the show. you listen to this show, like, if you have for a while, you know that, like, I'm really into, like, karma in the universe. And, like, when I read that, that he signed this contract, said it, who knows if he really said that's the best night of my life. I feel like that was kind of added in over the years.

I'm sure he said it at some point. But then he dies the next day or, like, that night. That's really karma. That's true. To me, that screams, like, ooh, big karma vibes. That's rough. That's like the, that's a karma, like, dad punching you in the face. A karma dad.

punching you in the face. This is what that is. I don't know. Damn. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. Weirdly enough. I do get what you means.

That's some real shit. That's really intense. So that is the case of Virginia Rapé and Roscoe Fattie Arbuckle. Damn, I had no idea. Neither did I. I've heard the name. Of course. But like I've heard Faddy Arbuckle.

I didn't even know his name was Roscoe. Yeah. Neither did I. Because I've only heard about a fatty Arbuckle. And I was like, I'm sure his name is not Fatty Arbuckle. But yeah, but like let's see. And then when you find out like just it's so much tragedy throughout this. There is.

It's just sadness from beginning to end. Yeah. And I had no idea it was just so like brutal. Incredibly brutal. Wow. Thanks for that. You're welcome. So I think we're going to follow this one up with a spooky case most likely.

We'll see. We'll see. Maybe not. Maybe we'll just do a whole last other case. You can wait and see. And we hope that you keep listening. We hope you. Keep it weird.

But not so weird that you go out with your friends who are a bunch of heathens and then you on your way you're like getting hearty to party and you have the drinks and the everything and then you go to the party and then you lie about what you did at the party and somebody ended up dead and like maybe you killed them and maybe you didn't. Don't keep us so weird that you're Maude Delmont scamming man because you can't be doing that. You know, oh my God. Bye. But watch The Great Gatsby.

It's a good movie. And Stranger Things. I'm excited to start watching that. Yeah. Bye.