Morbid - John George Haigh: The Acid Bath Murderer

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

On February 20, 1949, police in London arrested thirty-nine-year-old John George Haigh on suspicion of his connection to Olive Durand-Deacon, a wealthy widow who’d gone missing a few days earlier. Haigh had a long criminal history of fraud and theft, so when police discovered that Haigh had recently pawned several items belonging to the missing woman, they naturally believed he had robbed and possibly killed Duran-Deacon. The truth, they soon learned, was far worse.After days of interrogation, Haigh eventually confessed to the murder of Olive Durand-Deacon, telling detectives he had drained her of her blood, which he intended to drink, then disposed of her body in a forty-five gallon barrel of acid—but she was far from the first of his victims. By the time his case went to trial, investigators had connected Haigh to six victims, all dissolved in acid, and he’d confessed to three additional murders that were unconfirmed. In his confession, Haigh claimed he’d murdered his victims in order to drink their blood; though, it’s far more likely his motive was primarily greed. Nevertheless, Haigh’s claim was immediately seized upon by the British tabloids, who labeled him a “vampire killer” and provided endless sensational coverage of the arrest, trial, and his eventual execution. Thank you to the incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesDaily Record. 1949. "Haigh was a model boy." Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland), July 20: 1.Evening Dispatch. 1949. "Haigh: Defence will plead insanity." Evening Dispatch (Birmingham, England), July 18: 1.—. 1949. "Silence in court." Evening Dispatch (Birmingham, England), July 1: 1.Evening Express. 1949. "Haigh for trial at Old Bailey." Evening Express (Liverpool, England), April 2: 1.Evening Sentinel. 1949. "Dramatic developments in mystery of missing widow." Evening Sentinel (Staffordshire, England), March 1: 1.Herald Express. 1949. "'Haigh put the body in a drum' - prosectiuon." Herald Today (Devon, England), April 1: 1.Lincolnshire Echo. 1949. "Haigh lived to lives, says mind doctor." Lincolnshire Echo, July 19: 1.Lowe, Gordon. 2015. The Acid Bath Murders: The Trials and Liquidations of John George Haigh. Cheltenham, UK: History Press.Ramsland, Katherine. 2006. "John George Haigh: A Malingerer's Legacy." The Forensic Examiner 59-62.Root, Neil. 2012. Frenzy: The First Great Tabloid Murders. New York, NY: Preface Publishing.Sunday Dispatch. 1949. "Wide search for missing rich widow." Sunday Dispatch (London, England), February 27: 1.The Times. 1949. "Hiagh sentenced to death." The Times (London, England), July 20: 2.Western Daily Press. 1949. "Haigh smiles at sentence." Western Daily Press, July 20: 1.Western Morning News. 1949. "Yard fears for fate of five people." Western Morning News, March 3: 1. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. Bees. That one felt like, I was like, this. Yeah, it felt good. This is morbid. It felt good.

I appreciate, you know what, I'll just like get right into it really quick. And this will be quick. It won't be 15 when it's like the other one. Will it be quick, Elena? You guys rock. You rule. You roll. You do all of it.

I love you all. All the kind words. I was trying to think of another. Yeah. of another verb. Another R word. But seriously, you guys are amazing. In that last episode, we kind of spilled everything. And it felt really good to say it. I felt like I was like talking to my friends about it. So I really appreciate it. That's like the most therapeutic. Very cathartic. I almost just said, that's like so. That is. You sound like my littlest one. She is like the cutest

one. She has like the cutest little list. But, but honestly, you guys were amazing. We've had so many like kind words and everybody's been really cool. And a lot of people were like, like if you want to take more time off, feel free to, which again, thank you so much. You're like, never. But honestly, it feels good to be like bad. I, I like thrive. Like, hello, it's Capricorn season. I'm so scared.

We're here. And we're going to ruin everyone's lives with our richness. Oh, that has like fully bathed in the Capricorn season. I feel good today. I feel good. I am terrified. Yeah. See, I feel good.

My littlest one is feeling good. She's back to being her old, like her ragey self. Like, she's really like. She's in the thick of it, yelling at everybody. She was pissed today. Pissed that she couldn't go outside because it's raining. And she was like, I'm going to pull out my booths. I'm going to put my booths and go outside.

And I was like, well, you can't. It's pouring rain and you literally have COVID. And she was like, but I want to. She's like, you know what? Yeah, she's great. I get it. She's feeling it. I mean, she's not Capricorn, but she's feeling it.

She might as well be. She's feeling the energy. She's feeling it. But she's doing good, you know, we got little from our vet. we got little like paw prints and a nose print of Bubba. The nose print ruined my soul. It ruined me for a second, but like the card was so sweet. We heard from like all her doctors.

Yeah. And just seeing her little nose again was in a little paws. I smelled it. And I just looked at it was like, you know what? She's here now. We have every piece of her now. So she's here. She's in the house.

We got her. I feel her. I swear I heard her slurp the other night. And I was like, Bubba. And then I was like, oh, you're not here. But then I was like, yes, you are. You're right there. Yeah, she stays slurping.

So I. So I feel her. I feel it. And, you know, everybody's starting to get on the mend. We're feeling back in the groove. I just, I'm feeling good today. And I think, like, you all had a really big part of that. So I appreciate it immensely. Because everybody was just awesome. Like, we got a real, like, you guys are really cool. Yeah. It's just kind of like, you guys are cool. I'm just really glad we have this, like, community of, like, best friends that we could just be like, hey, girl. I said to somebody, like, they were like, oh my God, like, take off next week. but like it was so great hearing your voices, like something along those lines. And it was funny because you and I were just talking about it. And we were like, no, we like missed you guys.

Like when we sat down the other day to record, I was like, oh man, like I needed that. It felt right. Like it, yeah. We had that week that we took and but it was more of a week, it was a week of chaos. So it definitely wasn't like relaxing reprieve or something. We were not really a vibing per se. But then I realized. And at first, I remember we were like, you know, we were going to take that week before Christmas and we were going to kind of have it be like a little bit of a reprieve or whatever from just like working constantly. But then we realized after this last week, we're like, actually, it feels weird not to. Like I don't like that. It's not a, because we just, this is what we do now. This is us. This is us. This is us. This is us. Is that her real name? I literally only

know her as Lauren Graham isn't in this is us. Oh no, she's in that other one. I was like, we are family. Somebody's probably. Parenthood. Thank you. There you go. I just like, Like we are family. One of those. Like I'm surprised. That's not the show. I was like, wait, Mandy Morris and this is us. But you know what?

That's neither here or there. I'm surprised you know that. Just wanted to say thank you so much. You guys rule. We're feeling good. We're back, baby. And I have something that has been just eating away at my psyche for the past 24 hours. I know I just said everything's fine.

But this is different. This is different. A different compartment. So, as you know, the West Memphis three case is a case that like I am. very just it's like very close to my heart and there has been a huge huge newsbreak in this case now we heard recently you know i think it was like but you know the past year or so we've heard that when they were trying to test the evidence that they have from it because they're trying to prove that someone else did this obviously yep and we're trying to find out who there are three

year old boys who lost their lives that are still, the killer or killers is still walking around free. It's making me crazy. And for the last like year or so, we've heard a lot of reports and we've kind of like talked about it just a little bit that the West Memphis Police Department said that all the evidence that they could use to test any further was lost in a fire. And so when you heard that, everybody was like, what in a fire? And it was devastating at first. It was like in a fire. It was like in a fire, we're never getting that bad. Like, that's gone. It's over. Like, we'll never be able to choose. It was devastating. What fire? But then everybody was like, wow, when was this fire? And they were like, yeah, it was like, I was at a time. It was definitely out of place. Unrecorded, though.

And it was hot like fire is. And we were like, oh, okay. And then, you know, authorities were like, can we like, you know, maybe see like records of this fire? And they were like, no. No. No, we can't do that. And they were like, I don't know. Just, you know, fire is fire. You know. Like, you know, Like, we don't need to talk about it anymore. No. They're like, only you can prevent fires. Yeah, that's it. The end.

And then they just kind of shut. It was like, what? But, you know, Damien Eccles and Jason Baldwin and their attorneys, Mara Leverett, who wrote Devil's Not. She's been like really into this case. And everybody else who was advocated for them was like, no, no, no, no, no. You're going to show proof of this fucking fire. Where's that fire? Turns out, fire department came out.

There's no fire. No. Like, there was no fire. Who's talking about a fire? No. Can you have meant? Like, who just pulled that out of their ass and was like, no one will ask follow-up questions? That was weird enough that they were like, there was a fire and there wasn't a fire.

I just love that they didn't think anything was going to come up. Yeah. And then they came out and were like, there wasn't a fire. And it was like, okay, now what? Can we have that evidence? And they were like, it's lost. I don't know. So now, yesterday, right before Capricorn season started because we're going to get shit done in Capricorn season.

I'm telling you. Oh, yeah. I'm telling you. Did it start today? I feel it's today. today. So all of a sudden it came out that one of the attorneys for Damien Eccles, Patrick Benka, said that he was in West Memphis. Now, the police chief, Mike Pope, resigned, by the way. Quote unquote, resign. He resigned. Don't know why. Can't imagine why. But Banka was in

West Memphis yesterday morning and told Damien, oh, I, here's all the evidence. It's all here. And he said specifically even the ligatures. That's so haunting. It is there. They lied. It's literally there. Not only that, they released photos this morning, one of the news stations around there, and all of it is not only there, it's all there.

It's pristine condition, and it was cataloged. It's insane. It's perfectly there. When you see this photo, even the bikes are there, at least one of the bikes. When you said that, I like... The ligatures are there. We can test this show. And it's not, this is not on the national news.

What the fuck is going on? The fact that it's not as crazy. That police chief resigned this week. Resigned. And then this comes out and they have every piece of evidence. They have been hiding. And first of all, let me tell you, we're doing an episode where we are going to talk about this. I just needed to get this out right now because it's happening.

But trust me, we're going to do a full-blown episode on this because, holy shit, I hope it just goes to the stratosphere. It will. these police officers, this department, were covering up for a murderer of three eight-year-old boys, three children who were brutally tortured and murdered. And they are like withholding evidence and lying about evidence. They lied. They said it was gone and all of it is right there. That's wild.

I know this happens all the time. But for a case like this where it's just like they, especially with that Alfred plea and everything involved in this. The fact that they took these three men, the West Memphis 3s, their lives away. Absolutely. And continue to. Almost two decades, like, in prison.

And then afterwards, they still have to walk around with that stigma. Well, they just, like, kicked them out on their asses. They just get to maintain their innocence. They didn't get to sue for all of the time that was stolen from them. All the medical conditions they suffered from it. All the psychological torture. everything. And like try getting a job when you have that as your record. None of them got a dime from it.

None of them were able to get themselves officially acquitted and cleared. And the state of Arkansas is just sitting there being like, well, and it's like, first of all, if anybody in their right mind thought that a state would let three child murders walk free when they knew that they were guilty, that it tells you right there that they knew they weren't guilty. They would never let those three men walk out of there that. afternoon if they for one second believe they were guilty. No way. They wouldn't do it.

No. They knew they had nothing. They knew that they didn't do it. They know who did it. And whoever it is, they're covering up for these people. And it's insane. Because there is no other reason that they should keep that evidence. And I guess Damien was told that the police chief was going to be fired.

And then he never was fired. Oh, yeah. It came out that he quote unquote resigned. But that's interesting. Oh, yeah. He was going to be fired on December 21st, which was, wasn't that yesterday? He was going to be fired on December 21st, but he resigned. Interesting.

It's wild to me. Interesting. So I promise you we are going to go so much further into that on another episode, but, man, I had to, like, just scream about that because I'm going crazy. And also, I want to find a way to tell, get this to all these news stations. This should be national fucking news. Of course it should. This kind of cover up and this kind of bullshit from a police department should be everywhere. Well, and another reason that it should be everywhere is like, what if they destroy it now that they...

Well, they can't now. It's been taken out. Oh, they took it? There's a photo of people going through it now. Oh, it's out. Because that's scary. And now they can't. I'm honestly because it's like...

Of course, but I'm like, surprising. I know. But it's more just like this should be known. Yeah. Like now there should be a real investigation into this police department. And now, like, let's get the shit tested. Let's start getting like the real suspects in here. solve this fucking case. I just can't believe that that was all sitting there all. Like,

I do believe it, but like I cannot believe it. No, I can't. Like, holy shit. I know this shit happens. Like corruption happens like this all the time. But to that level. And when you just see it play out like this, the way this has played out is just so like jaw-bro-like just jaw-dropping. It's amazing. It's so it's like really crazy. But hopefully we'll have way more updates to do a full episode so we can talk about this because I am so hoping for some kind of justice for Damian Jesse and for Jason and for Michael Stevie and Christopher. Yeah. Like all six of these boys deserve to have their justice.

And their families. And they still have family members that are alive, obviously. And it's like it shows how this, you know, how these original like, like, Fogelman there and shit from the original investigation. It shows how they looked. not only at the three, the West Memphis three, but at the families of these victims that they weren't worthy enough to get justice. And it's like, these were children.

I mean, they got, like, he literally used it just to get Damien in prison. Yeah, it's wild. It's wild. It's wild. It's a witch hunt. If you want to go listen to the West Memphis three episodes, you can hear all about the case if you're not sure what we're talking about here. But again, we'll do another episode.

Elena did like a four-parter, so that will now be five. Yeah. It'll probably be more. But yeah, had to scream about that for a minute. But now I will hand the mic over to Ash. I took it. She did. So when we left off in part one, everybody, things were going crazy.

More chaos. Why did I just stutter? It's like I start and it's just like, you know what happens? Nancy. And Derek Hesom had just been found absolutely brutally murdered in their home. And seemingly it was like a dinner gone wrong. because all the chairs were pushed back and everything. So the sheriff that arrived on scene, H.C. Wells immediately assumed that this was a male killer

because of the brutality on scene. Yeah. And the fact that whoever this person was was able to take over Derek Hesem because he was like a big dude. Yeah. And presumably they had to be fighting Nancy off at the same time. So it's like he definitely thought that a man had to have done this. Yeah. But the question was, who would want to do this to the Haysams and why?

Like, why did this happen in the first place? That's what I'm wondering. So at the time in Virginia, they had actually set up a regional homicide squad where the six counties agreed that if a homicidal investigation became too big for just one county, they would all work on it together. And this was actually one of the first times where they had to ban together and do this because really, like they had some good evidence, but there wasn't a lot to do with it at the time because remember, this is the 80s. Like there's not a lot of testing that they can do, unfortunately. So some of the evidence left behind were bloody fingerprint. fingerprints, which needed to be sent out for testing. A bloody handprint found on the dining room chair. A mouse trap. A bloody footprint impression that they were able to determine came from somebody wearing only socks.

And had it been made by a woman, the shoe size would have been a six and a half seven. And if worn by a man, it would be a five or six shoe size. Okay. There was also a piece of hair that did not belong to Derek or Nancy found in their bedroom. And the hair evidence was, quote, a Caucasian head hair approximately one and a half inches in length from root to diagonally cut end. Now, again, it sounds like a lot of evidence, but this is 1985. It's not a lot they can do with it.

Forensics had not come that far yet. Yeah. So they started from square one. Ricky Gardner and Chuck Reed were the two lead investigators on the case. And their first move was to talk to the neighbors. Have you seen anything? Like, has anything weird been going on? Anybody who knew the hastens, they just wanted to get a picture.

of like what had been going on. Yeah, like tell us everything. And they obviously were having to track down all the Haysom's children who I mentioned in part one, they were like scattered all across the map, like all across everywhere. But interestingly enough, the neighbors didn't really seem to know Derek or Nancy that well. And those who did, like just didn't have any information to give the police. Like nobody really had anything to say. And all of Derek and Nancy's kids had alibis because most of them were literally in another country when this happened. Most of of them except for Elizabeth were in another country. So Elizabeth was the only one who lived in Virginia with her parents. Like she was living at school, but then when she would come home, she'd be at home.

Yeah. But she had been off with her boyfriend Yens that week doing a little road trip from D.C. to Charlottesville. So they were like, what the fuck? Like, who did this? So early on in the investigation, and mostly because I think they didn't have a lot of other places to go just yet, they wondered if this was somehow satanically motivated. Oh, there it is. Because again, 1985. So we are in the height of the satanic panic era. Right when I came on the scene.

Yeah, literally. And the investigators talked to like some kind of satanic ritual expert. Like, I don't even know who that would be. Same guy from the West Memphis 3Ks. Probably. Yeah, I would like the printout degree. Exactly. This person claimed that there were a lot of signs that this was some kind of ritual

killing. The experts first noted that, all of the chairs at the dining room table that were pushed back were facing north. Okay. So that's huge. Yeah, it is. The bodies were also facing north. And this one I'll give to them.

Derek had that little V cut into his chin. Uh-huh. So they were like, that's ritualistic. And then they also found another little V in some of the blood by Nancy's body. And next to that V, they also believed that they saw the number six, which is like huge in satanic rituals. But it was like a very little marking on like the wood in the floor. Like in the blood.

Are there any crime scene photos of it? I think so. I'll have to double check if I didn't see any with the number six in them. But maybe. The crime scene photos are rough. Very intense. Yeah. But there was also the way that the blood was surrounding the bodies.

Whoever had done this had gone back like at some point and like just in their socks with the blood pooled around the bodies. They had like swished it all around. to me that kind of just says like they were doing it to like clean up or like destroy any like maybe something that they had left behind. I don't know why that would be satanic, but they were like Satanism rituals. So Satanists like use their socks to like. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Just to like swore. I don't know if they thought like the pattern. It was literally just like swirled around. But all right. So yeah. I mean, who's to say? Who's to say? I'm not a satanic ritual guy. Yeah, I don't claim to be one. But speaking of blood, later into the investigation they were able to do luminal testing on the scene and it showed a set of bloody footprints walking from the living room to the bedroom and then into the bathroom off of the bedroom.

So the killer at the very least, like washed up in there, but they also thought he may have taken a shower. Which is so haunting to think about. Like you have two bodies lying in different rooms in that house and you're covered in their blood and you're just going to hop in their shower. And you just did this brutal, awful chaotic murder. And they're just going to calmly shower in their house. Like, what? No. Now they did testing outside of the home too, and it showed two sets of footprints. And they were both the same size.

So it showed obviously the killer had come outside and gone back in. And they think this is one person, because it's like a set coming out and then a set going back in. And they thought, like, maybe he had gone outside and, like, been spooked by something or like maybe somebody saw him. so he went back inside and waited longer. Yeah. Or maybe had gone inside to make sure that, like, he'd really killed them. And maybe at that point, their throats were cut. That's what they were thinking.

Okay. And later on, when the FBI was able to profile the scene, they disagreed with the sheriff. They said they did not think that this was the work of a male killer, but a female who knew the house well. So an acquaintance at the very least. Okay. So just as they got to the point where they were shifting the focus to a female in the case, and like maybe involved in the Haysom's life.

One just offered herself right up. Her name was Margaret Louise Simmons and she just walked into the police station was like, why haven't you guys talked to me yet? And they were like, grab a chair, Margaret. Sit down, Marge. So Marge at one point had been engaged to Derek's son Julian and she was also Nancy's first cousin. Oh. But remember Derek's son is like from a previous marriage, so they're not really good.

Yeah, okay. That took me a second. No weird stuff going on here. It's fine. That's crazy going on. No, no. So she told the police a lot about her and Julian's relationship and how Derek and Nancy didn't approve of her. And she thought that they were the breakdown of her and Julian's relationship. So as they got to find out more about Margaret, they also learned from one of her friends

that she had recently shown up to his house with a couple of knives. And she was saying to him like, the demons are back again. Oh, no. Yeah. She also apparently told him that she was scared she was going to do something bad. Like she was scared. Oh, she's having a legitimate mental health crisis. Yes, exactly.

Is everybody seeing this? Is everybody okay? Can someone help her? We're like, instead of helping you, can you actually just sit down and do a polygraph? Yeah, for sure. We know you're kind of stressed, but like, do you mind? And she agreed. And when the results came back, it showed that she had been deceptive when answering two specific questions.

One of them was, were you at the Haysom house the night they were murdered. She showed deception on that. And then she showed deception when they said, did you kill the Haysom's? which polygraphs Not mean anything Hot dog in a trench coat And also She's clearly going through a mental health crisis

Like very clearly There's several things She showed up with knives To somebody's house And was like the demons are back Right Said I think I'm gonna do something And then walked into a police station

And was like, why is no one talk to me? That's like guys Call someone Please call someone And it's like I don't think she's sitting down To a polygraph And it's gonna be like Did you do the test questions

Like did you make sure that she is in state where she should be taking a polygap? Probably not. Like, clearly she wasn't. No. Shum, shi-shom. I don't know why I made that noise, but she wasn't. So the more and more that they talked to Margaret about what happened that night, they

realized there was no way she was capable of the murders. She would go on like really long diatribes about when her and Julian were together, different vacations that they'd gone on, just things that like were not relevant to the investigation. And they realized that she was suffering for mental illness. Of course. She had actually gone to. like hospitals and like gotten treatment before and pretty recently. So they were like,

she's definitely not our leading suspect. Yeah, she's just going through it. And she actually asked if she could take another polygraph test at like a different period in time. And she gave the investigators fingerprints, footprints, footprints, DNA. She was totally cleared from any wrongdoing. That's not shocking to me at all. No. But so they then made like, they were like, okay, but like we still need to look at the females involved in their life. And like, so who are we going to look at? Let's look at Elizabeth. She has an alibi, but like, she's the closest one here. She's close and there was like some weird stuff at the funeral that we'll talk about. So they were like, we need to talk to her. And she's the one that's like gone through a lot. She's gone through a lot. She's also the youngest and she still lives

there like to a point. Makes sense why they would look at her. Yeah. So she had this alibi. She was with Yens on a little on a little weekend trip. But they were like, that's cool. We just want to like get to know you a little more. Yeah. I just want to know what's up. So they had taken. They had taken note that Yens at the funeral had some bandages on his hands and also had a bruise over his eye. Oh. Yes. And although this is not a crime, it was like Elizabeth really didn't seem too emotional, not only at the funeral, but just in day-to-day life.

Like, people were commenting on her lack of emotion with like the brutal death of her parents. Yeah, which people always are going to. And we talk all the time, like, that's not really like necessarily fair. It doesn't mean you're guilty. No. But it definitely can be a weird thing when there's other stuff that can point to you. Raises some eyebrows. So they brought her in for an interview.

She literally brought a sandwich with her. Okay. Brought a sandwich to her interview about... Low blood sugar, I guess. Like, girlfriend, what? Like, I understand a fellow hungry gal, but I don't know how much I would want a sandwich when talking about the brutal murder of my elderly parents. Yeah, no.

I could barely eat after putting Bubba to sleep. No, like, of course not. Never mind my parents. She brought a, is it Marmite? Marmite. Oh, yeah. Marmite sandwich. And they were like, oh, okay.

Yeah. Anyways, that's not really important, but I just wanted to put it in there. I think it's marmite. I hope I wasn't just like, yeah. Let me Google it. Yeah, let's Google it just to make sure. Marmite. I was right.

Yeah, you were right. All right. Good. We're good here, guys. Marmite. So during the interview, the detectives learned all about Elizabeth's time at Wicum, Abby. Say it right this time, Biotch. Wickham. I actually wrote in my notes, say it right this time. B-Ox. She did, I saw it. So somebody

tweeted at me. They were like, oh, I actually went there and like, you don't say it how you did. And I was like, oh, fuck. And I looked it up in part one. And then I just didn't write it down, I guess. So it's Wickham, Abby. But thank you for telling us. Yeah, thank you for telling us. Because I didn't want to sound like a moron. And you were like super nice about it. So thank you. Yeah. The person that said it was like, yeah. And they went there. And they were like, you know, just saying. They were like, like, Elizabeth's legacy is cray cray. Yeah, which is crazy. I shouldn't say legacy. Like just, yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, they're in this interview and they learn all about her time at school, her version of the time that she spent in Europe as a runaway. And that was when she said that her parents were just glad that she got it out of her system. If you listen to part one, that's what she said their attitude was about the whole thing. And she just really wanted to make it clear that she had a great relationship with her parents. She loved them. They did everything for her.

It was like they almost loved her too. much. Oh, oh. And she said, the last time she had physically seen them was the weekend of March 23rd, and that when she had seen them, she had planned to talk to them on the phone on Tuesday the 26th. Okay. And then, no, no, no, excuse me, I'm so sorry. So she had seen them on March 23rd, then she had talked to them on Tuesday the 26th. Oh, okay. And then, sorry, made plans to talk again on the 31st that Sunday. But when she called them that Sunday, there was no answer. So that's when she didn't hear from them on Tuesday and she called that friend to go check on them. And then obviously we know what happened from there.

The Haysims had been discovered on Wednesday, April 3rd, but police were able to determine that they'd either been killed Friday or Saturday. Oh, okay. Yeah, like the Friday or Saturday before. So they were in there for a little bit. Now, when asked what she was doing the specific weekend, like that they were killed, Elizabeth explained the whole Charlottesville, D.C. trip. She said we rented a car. We went sightseeing. Then we spent the night in a hotel, the Georgetown Marriott.

And they went to see a couple movies, which she bought ticket stubs for. One of them was Porky's Revenge. And the other one was the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Hell yeah. And she agreed to give them her DNA. She agreed to give them fingerprints. This all sounds great. Which also would be found in the house anyway.

So like it's really not that helpful. Yeah, that's true. Because she lives there. But I mean, yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, well, yeah, like her DNA is all. Yeah, I was just going to say she literally lives there. Well, wait, the DNA. And then I was like, the DNA.

No, she literally lives there. Yeah, like part-time. But she was free to go. And before she left, she was sure to tell the investigators, you know, daddy has a lot of enemies. She called her dad, daddy, has a lot of enemies. And like a lot of them are from like business dealings and like his time in different countries. So like, I just want you to know that. She's like, just to just throw that out there.

Lots of enemies. So they were like. Yeah, cool, thanks. And then she left. Interesting. Chuck Reed and Ricky Gardner looked at each other and they were like, she was weird, right? Like that was strange, right? The whole thing was really off, correct? And they both agreed like, yeah, that was weird. So they went to check out the car that Elizabeth and Yens had rented. And they were like, maybe we'll find something in there. Like maybe some blood or something. Yeah. It didn't find blood or anything like that. But they were able to find out that the car was returned with a lot more miles on it than a trip from Charlottesville to D.C. would have taken.

Oh. 429 miles, to be exact. Extra. You're going to notice that. 429 extra miles. Yeah, that's going to flag. Weird, too, because that actually would have been the distance from Charlottesville to Washington, Washington to lose chippings, and back. Weird.

So, so crazy. Weird how that all worked out. So they said, hey, Elizabeth, what's up with the 429 that we got? You want to explain that? We are so silly, me and yens. we got lost for 400 miles. We got lost on our sightseeing trip and, you know, we just kept going in circles. And it was, it's so embarrassing.

For 400 miles. And they were like, yeah, that's weird. That's a relatively short trip that you took. It's like a two and a half hour ride. And you're a fucking world traveler and so is your boyfriend. Yeah. And you guys got lost sightseeing on a two hour trip. Yeah.

Oki dokey. For 400 miles. Yeah. Okay. Joky. Like, okay. So by that point in the investigation, they had talked to Yens two once or twice, but he refused to give anything. No DNA, no fingerprints, no nothing. He was like, fuck that. And he said, he had a reason. He said it was because his father was a diplomat. And if all of this was going on, he was worried that it would become public. And then, like, this whole investigation

thing would be, like, placed on him. It would make his father's reputation go down the tank. So that's cute. That's a good story. Yeah. That's really, that's nice. But you still have to cooperate with an investigation of which you are now a person of interest in. Also, your, um, your girlfriend's two parents were brutally murdered. So like, yeah, I think people might find out that you're attached to her at some point in time. You are literally a person of interest in this investigation. So you, you kind of have to cooperate. Thank you. You can't just be like, well, my dad. My dad's a diplomat. My dad's a diplomat. Sorry. Can't, uh, it's. It's like, no, that doesn't work. That's not like, oh, okay. Oh, shit. All right. Yeah. Yeah.

It's not like my doctor says I can't do PE today. Like, no. It's not the same. It's not like I have my period. I can't do this. It's not the same. Remember that? I had my period every single time we had to do anything in gym.

I loved Jim. I have cramps. Sorry. I was a weird kid. I hated Jim so much. Clearly. So every time they tried to talk to Jens that he would talk to them. And his story would be like very, very identical to a little.

Elizabeth's, like, too identical. So finally, in early October, the investigators were, like, they felt like they were close to getting Yens to hand over some DNA. And he said, you know, I just have to go home. I have to, you know, clear this with the German embassy. And then once I hear back from them, can you imagine? Like, I just have to clear this with the embassy. And then I think they're going to get back to me.

I'll come in tomorrow and we'll figure this out. Like, I'll give you my DNA. Okay, Dorothy. Yes. And they were like, okay-doke. Yeah. Tell us what the embassy says. Toots.

So, well, folks, you could imagine. What happened? The next day came and went without Yens ever showing up. Oh, no. So the police went out to Ian Elizabeth's apartment, and they were, because by this time they got an apartment together, because obviously she's still not living in that house. Yeah. But they were met by the couple's roommate who handed them a letter that Yens had intentionally left for investigators, read and Gardner. And it read, oh, no.

Dear offices, Reed and Gardner. I assume that you especially, Mr. Gardner, will be very excited by now, which is why I hate to disappoint you. Well, that's not exactly true. I suggest that you continue your investigation as before. Undoubtedly, you will find whom you are looking for. As for me, I'm afraid you must remain, as Officer Reed put it, only 99% sure of mine's innocence. From what Liz has told me of what you discovered at loose chippings, I can only say, I'm incapable of such a thing. I do not have many friends, but I think they will all substantiate this and my long-standing dissatisfaction with my life here. Okay. He is literally written by somebody who wrote an early aughts WB like drama.

Yes. He's a villain. Yes. From, you know, whatever those, like, you know, they would have like the Superman or like the Batman, like teen dramas. Like before they were actual adults. Yep. He's, that's like Lex Luther. Yep.

From those. It truly is. Like a WB writer. Yeah. C.W. writer. Yeah. Wrote that. Wrote that.

Wrote that. You can also watch interviews with Yens. Are you kidding me? With, yeah, you can watch interviews with him and he's, he very much gives off those vibes. That's so bad. Like, that's so bad and so cringy. And the part where he's like, I hate to disappoint you and then puts in parentheses, like,

well, that's not exactly. true. No, that was the part where I was like, oh, no, like, somebody in the CW writer's room was like, oh, shit, everyone. This is really going to drop the mic. Like, what? This is his villain origin story. No, that's the worst thing I've ever heard. Yeah. And then I love that he was like, I don't have a lot of friends, but they'll substantiate that. My no friends will substantiate this for me. We'll go hunt them down, and that will be evidence in a court of law. Thank you. Wow. So as the officers were reading that letter, Elizabeth and Yens were most likely on their plane rides to Europe because they ran away to fucking Europe. Yeah, of course they did.

So to get out there, they traveled separately and in disguises. And then when they met up in Europe, their whole plan was that they were going to rent a car and go on a road trip together. But unfortunately, they love a road trip. Unfortunately, though, they ended up in a car accident and they had to fly again, which was something they didn't want to do, obviously, because they're on the fucking run. Yeah. So they flew to Bangkok, actually. And it was there that they went to like a printing shop and they got all kinds of false traveling documents. They got Canadian driver's licenses, certified passports and citizen certificates.

And each of them had three different sets of photos for each document to make sure it didn't look like it was like the same day. And each one, they like would change up their hair or like put like a different shirt on or something. What? Yeah. Crazy. How is this real? It doesn't sound like. real at all. They also started going by different names and made up different backstories in case

anybody asked. Now they were a Canadian couple, Jim, or excuse me, Tim and Julia Holt. Oh, okay. They had gone to college together at the University of Kent and then been married shortly after that. How lovely. And it was with those fake names that they set up their bank account with Lloyd's Bank. Now, they were able to get check guarantee cards, which made it so that the bank would still honor a bounce check up to 50 pounds or 60 U.S. dollars. It was like a policy that that bank had back then. Okay. And by this point, they were back in London. And they had come up with this scheme that they were going to do together while shopping at Marks and Spencer.

One of them would buy a leather jacket at the store, and they would use their guaranteed check. And then later on, that same day, one of them would come back with another. jacket from a different location and return it for cash. So the scheme worked because Marks and Spencer were never missing out on their money, if you think about it. It takes a minute to think about it. Yeah, it does. And Lloyd's Bank had a policy at the time where they didn't report fraud under 10,000 pounds. Oh. So it was kind of genius. No, that's like really cunning. Yeah, like very cunning. Because through this little scheme, Elizabeth and Yenz made a profit of a around 6,000 pounds or at the time $9,000.

Holy shit. Yeah. Like, wow. Not doing that. Just doing a single thing. Just that? Just returning a weather jacket every day? Yeah, they would just go to like different locations around the city.

Damn. So with that money, they opened up an account together at Midland Bank under the names Tara Lucy No and Christopher Platt no. Yeah. They moved into like a little apartment or a flat, I should say, in bath. And they kept up their Mark's Spencer scheme. So usually they'd go in separate. separately and like hours apart. But one day Elizabeth wanted to spice things up a little bit.

And she thought they should go in at the same time. Oh. And do this whole thing. Yeah. Now that was stupid because one of the employees at the time realized what was going on and like hauled down an undercover police officer and they were arrested immediately. Wow. Yeah.

Just because she was bored. Just because she just wanted to spice up their fucking scheme. Yeah. So it was April 30th, 1986, more than a year since Elizabeth's parents had been murdered. So on May 29th, 1986, Detective Terry Wright called Detective Gardner and asked him if the names Elizabeth Haysom and Yen Soaring sounded familiar at all. He was like, do you know these names? Because we have them in custody. And Detective Gardner was like, hell yeah, I know those names. Oh my God. Imagine that call. Oh, my God. After a year. He must have been so excited. Seriously. So he hopped on the first plane out to London. And he was able to interview Elizabeth and Yens that weekend. But that was all. all the time that he was going to have with them because technically they were like in custody in yeah UK custody yeah so if he couldn't get one of them to confess then the UK was just going to proceed with their fraud charges against the couple which like they wouldn't have

gotten that much jail time no and they would have just been they would just been gone but if he could get them to confess it would be a totally different ballgame oh my god this is like the most high stakes interrogation it's huge holy shit so yen's decided that he was ready to talk they got one recorded interview with him, I guess. And then he said, come back the next day without the recorder. And I'll tell you what you need to know. And he signed. I hate when they try to get like the power. And like you, they like kind of have to give it to them. Yeah, because they need what they need. So he signed solicitor waiver forms and he said, come back without the recorder. I'll tell you everything. And he made a full confession. Oh no. He said that Elizabeth and he had planned to go on that trip,

that road trip was for real. But that on their way to DC, they started talking about how much the both hated Elizabeth's parents. And he said, you know what, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to try to gain their respect. And if it doesn't go well, I'll kill them. Why are those the only two options? Yeah. I don't know. You either gain their respect or you murder them? I don't know. There's what they were thinking. There's no in between. No. There was a lot of drugs involved here too. Like Elizabeth was like using. Oh, okay. It's unclear whether Yenz was using, but I think we can all use our imaginations. Yeah. So he drove out there and Elizabeth, they came up with this whole plan. She was going to go to two different movie theaters to get the tickets as an alibi in case they needed one. She literally took notes on the different architecture of both theaters so that she'd be able to talk about it later. Wow. She also cashed a check in Yen's name and ordered room service for two people. So it looked like there was two people in the room. And then the plan was that he would come back and they would go. see the Rocky Horror Picture Show together and they would create a scene at the Rocky Horror

Picture Show to like to show that they had been there. Wow. And Elizabeth joked later on. She was like, but everybody causes a scene at Rocky Horror Picture Show. So it wasn't a very good plan. Like you guys know it, right? So much fun. So much. So culture. So fun. Yeah. So Yen said that once he got to the Haysom House, everything was all right at first. Derek and Nancy invited him into their fucking home, gave him a drink. Like they sat down together and obviously like maybe offered him some food. But at one point in the conversation, it became heated. And he said that they threatened to have him kicked out of UVA if he didn't just leave Elizabeth. Wow.

Which I'd be like, cool. I'll dip. I will leave. So it was at that point that Yen said he got up to leave, but that when he did, Derek Hesom grabbed him and held him up against the wall, like jerked him up against the wall. And Yen's had a knife on him, which he said was for protection. Oh, yeah. But as he got it out, he started stabbing Derek in the neck. So, like, come on. Once Nancy saw that Yens had a knife, she got her own and tried to use it to fight off Yens. But he got control of the knife and he was able to wrestle Nancy down. And he also started using her as a shield, like against Derek Hesem. Like using Derek Hesem's wife of years and years and years as a shield.

My God. Like, this is, it's horrific. They invited him into their home. He's dating. He's dating. their child. Like, they have every right to have an opinion about this. And she lives with them. He's like an 18-year-old boy. When would you ever expect that something like this would happen to you? And poor Nancy, like, jumps up to try to, like, defend her husband with a knife. And he's, oh, it's just, this is like too much. And it's horrific. So once he had her down, he cut her neck. And the next thing he said he remembered was throwing away any evidence that he could. Yeah, I always, my favorite thing in these things is they always say, and then the next thing I'm, remember. It's like, no, you remember. You remember every second of it. Get the hell out of here. Yeah, you're just being a

out of here. Yeah, you're just an asshole. And he said, so he threw away the evidence and while he was doing that, he realized that his hands were cut up really badly. So he went inside to wash up and decided at that point, he would use his socks to wipe up some of the blood to make sure that he didn't leave any fingerprints behind. Shocking. And he said he was going to swirl the blood around the bodies to get rid of any footprints that he had made. There you go. So, so satanic. So satanic. So satanic, wicked. So once he and the scene were all cleaned up, he said he wrapped himself in a bed sheet. So he also took one of their fucking bed sheets. Asshole.

Turned off all the lights in the house and just drove back to be with Elizabeth. Yeah. And I have no words. As he finished that story, he showed Detective Gardner his hands and pointed out the scars that he had gotten from that night. Like he literally had scars on his hands. So Elizabeth made a full confession too when she found out that Yen's had and the points matched up. perfectly. Like, yeah, she just totally what happened. Um, she didn't want to go through having a trial, actually. So she said, I'll just plead guilty. Wow. Which is like, they were like,

are you sure? Because like, if you plead guilty, you're going to get it. Like, we might be able to like figure out a plea deal. And I guess she was like, no, I don't want to. Like, I'll just plead guilty, which was interesting. Yeah. So she pled guilty as an accessory before the fact. And she was given two 45 sentences for each death to be served consecutively. Which was a huge, like, sentence for an accessory before the fact. Yeah, that's still a huge sentence. So during her confession, she also said, are you ready? No, probably not.

This shit is a movie. Like, it's crazy. She told detectives that she and Yens had actually followed Detective Gardner home one day after they were being questioned and said that they had plans to kill him. They were going to kill the lead detective on the case. and they were both able to describe what his house looked like. And this detective didn't realize he was being followed. That's a little scary.

Yeah, I know, right. I'd be like, whoa, all right. Followed him home one day. Holy shit. So scary. So Yen's trial was much different because his original hope was that he'd be tried in Germany where his father had certain privileges. Yeah, of course, asshole.

In Germany, because of the 1961 Vienna Convection. Convention. Yeah, I don't know why. Convection. Convection. Like, we're about to bake cookies. Convention. Thank you. No problem. Direct family members of a diplomat would receive immunity from most criminal and civil prosecutions, which I'm like, you think that because your dad is a diplomat, you can murder someone and get away with it. Yeah, none of their kids can be evil. That's no way. I don't know if it applies to like that, sir. So if he were tried in Germany, Yens knew he would most likely be tried as a minor. And he was assuming he'd probably get a maximum of 10 years and would definitely get out on parole. too before those 10 years ago. And go murder more people. Moyda.

But the UK wanted Yens extradited back to America because these murders were committed in Virginia, again America. So Germany said Virginia also known as America. Yeah. Like America. So Yens, or excuse me, Germany asked if Yens were to be tried in America that he not faced the death penalty. Okay.

And they were like, well, maybe. Well, maybe. Maybe. Sure. So Yens learned that he was going to be. be extradited back to Virginia, that he had no hopes of only serving 10 years in Germany. Good. Took back his whole confession.

Oh, of course he did the little shit. He was like, no, I was actually under duress when I confessed. That doesn't work, though. They made me confess. Because Elizabeth matched right up with yours, so that doesn't work. Oh, just wait. Like, good try. He said, it was not me who committed these murders.

It was Elizabeth. She went and did this. I didn't even know that she was going to do this. And then she just came back all bloody. and she said, you know, we have to figure this out. And so she told me, this is what he said. He said that she told him, described to me like what you would do if you murdered my parents, like what you think I did. And then the parts that you get wrong, I'll say, no, try again. And you'll just try until you get to the story that like I did.

Oh my God. This is the worst thing I've ever heard. Like you think that anybody is going to believe that that is what happened? That is the stupidest shit I've ever heard. Also, he has scars all over his hands. Like he proved like, hi, here's all the scars. Like scars on his hands, exactly. But he said, no, it was her. And she told me, just tell me what you think I did.

And we'll get to the story together. I'm truly. Question mark. Like me, I'm like that guy with like all the equations surrounded. Yeah, just what? Like what? And he said, you know, she's the woman I loved. I was willing to spend 10 years in prison for her.

but not more than that. Oh, no. You know, that's a whole different kind of relationship. Exactly. It's one thing to be willing to spend 10 years in prison for someone. Eleven, never. 11? We're talking marriage now. We're done. That's a lot. I'm not ready for that commitment yet. I just, I truly cannot. I'm, I'm befuddled. I'm taken aback. Yeah, exactly. So while getting ready to go to trial, the investigator searched Elizabeth and Yens Flat in England and came back with a myriad, a myriad of incriminating letters and diary entries. You don't say. Yens had written a letter to Elizabeth saying, were I to meet your parents?

I have the ultimate weapon. Strange things are happening with me. I'm turning more and more into a Christ-like figure, a small imitation anyway. Oh my God, kick him so hard in the nuts. He goes, I think. I think. I believe I could either make this. them completely lose their wits, get heart attacks, or they would become lovers and in a

gape kind of way of the rest of the world. There's so much to unpack there. How does someone get a heart attack? Where do you get one of those? Get hard attacks. Can you get them that best by? Where can you pick one up? I'm turning into a more Christ-like figure, I think. I think. I'm pretty sure. I don't know. I'd be like, what's happening here? I just feel it. So somebody repeatedly kicked this dude in the nuts. Please. me, please. She wrote back to him saying, it seems my concentration on their death is causing them problems. My father nearly drove over a cliff at lunch. He nearly got squashed by a tree when he got home, and he keeps falling over. And my mother, drunk, fell into the fire. I think I shall seriously

take up black magic. We can either wait till we graduate and then leave them behind or get rid of them soon. My mother said today that if some accident befell them, she knew I would become a worthless adventurer, more maternal acumen. I don't even... I love how she literally lays it out perfectly. She's like, well, we could just graduate and just leave them behind and never talk to them again. Or we could murder them now.

What do you think is the best option? What is the more rational decision here? You have just said exactly what you should do. Graduate, leave. They'd probably be fine without you. Exactly. So it's like, just go away. Right.

And she's like, you know what? I feel like the best course of action here is just a brutally murder. them in their own home. I think so. Probably. I feel like that's the best way to go about it. She wrote another one. Yeah, she did. Why don't my parents just lie down and die? I despise them so much. Would it be possible to hypnotize my parents? Do voodoo on them? Will them to death? And then actually that part that I read before is actually in this letter. We can either wait until we graduate and leave them behind or we can get rid of them soon. Yeah, simple solution, the first one. So Yens answered that letter saying the fact that there have been many burglaries in the area opens up the possibility

for another one with the same circumstances, only this time dot, dot, dot. I hate these two. So you're like literally saying exactly what you're going to do. So much. And then finally, we have a diary entry made by Elizabeth, which said, the case is about to be solved. Perhaps fingerprints on coffee mug used by Yens and Bedford interview gave him away. I have to leave. Like, I have to go. I have to go reevaluate everything. I have to leave. These two, for two people who came up with like some pretty cunning and manipulative and pretty smart things, man, they're dumb.

Truly. For being able to come up with like some really, really cunning things, they are dumb as rocks and insufferable. Insufferable. They are insufferable. Like you want to take up black magic? Get out of here. No, I want to, I just have to leave. And like they think that they have powers.

Like they're like, you know, I think us thinking about this is like a tree almost fell in my dad today. That is horrific. Your father is 72 years old. No, they are that couple that you're like, you would be around somewhere and like not choose to be. Oh, God. And then you get in the car with your own significant other or your friend and be like, what the

fuck was that? We're never doing this again. We are never turning into those people. We are never hanging out with those people again. why did you bring me here? Also, can we point out that this man, her father, Derek, literally moved his family out of Zimbabwe before it became Zimbabwe because he was worried about his children and his wife. Yeah. And like worked his whole life. Like Nancy wanted to go back to Virginia to give Elizabeth this beautiful life. Like all they wanted for her was the best, it seemed. Wow. Yeah.

So before the trial started, both Yens and Elizabeth were evaluated. And at the time, Elizabeth was actually diagnosed with borderline personality disorder formally. Okay. And Yens was formally diagnosed with shared delusional disorder. But he was deemed fit to stand trial, obviously. So his trial began on June 1st, 1990. Wedding anniversary. And there seemed to be a solid amount of evidence against him. There were four different blood types found at the scene. Type A and type A, B, which were Derek and Nancy's blood types. One spot of B blood, blood, which was Elizabeth's blood type. And four, five different samples of type O blood, which was Yen's blood type. Oh, okay. To be fair, it's also the most common blood type ever. I was just going to say it's a very common blood type. Yeah,

but they also talked about the bruise on Yen's face, which he himself said came from the struggle he had with Derek Hesem and the cuts on his hands. And finally, there were the impressions found at the scene believed to have been made by somebody wearing socks. So this expert testified saying that Yen's footprint was a perfect match to this impression. Later on, the judge said that that evidence regarding the sock print was not admissible because he was like, I don't even know how the fuck you figured that out. I was just going to say because he's probably like, it's a sock, bro. He's like they have those at pay less actually for you to measure your kid's feet. Like sure, but no.

No. Probably not a great one. And it was a good thing that he didn't make that evidence admissible because it turned out that that expert was a tire print expert. Yeah. Those are different. Not a barefoot sock impression expert. Yeah. It's one of those things.

You line up a tire and a foot and you're like, ooh. So close. So close. Not the same though. Yeah. So there wasn't necessarily really any physical evidence directly and undoubtedly connected to Yens. And the problem though was that he didn't do himself any favors on the stand. So while there wasn't a lot of like, I'm shocked by that, a lot of like for real evidence. Yeah. He was like, he was kind of handing some. He was. Which is not shocking at all considering they are the most insufferable two people on planet Earth. Oh yeah. The jurors literally said like he came off as the most arrogant. The jury's like, we hate him. I don't even, I don't even know him. I don't know if he did it. I just hate him. Like, he was like smiling on stand. He was like correcting lawyers with like things

that they had said. Like, oh my God, I want to punch him. I'm smarter than you. And he'd like laugh. And they'd be like, you're on trial right now for a double murder. A double homicide. And you like, you have time to wall. Okay. Wow. So they were like, yeah. Like, no. Like he's arrogant. And they couldn't get past the fact that he had literally confessed. Yeah. And given a perfect confession that, matched Elizabeth's. Yeah, exactly. And Elizabeth also testified against him. And literally, like, she was very believable on St. Because she's like, I'm over this. Exactly. The other thing was that in the confession, he was the one who did everything and, like, knew all of these details. But then he took it back and said, no, Elizabeth did all of this and like tried to go with

that whole story of like, oh my God. She said, say what you think I did. And they were all like, no, that didn't happen. That truly, there can't be a person on planet Earth that says, that hears that story. And is like, that's, that's. likely what happened. No, exactly. Nobody would do that. No. That's so bad. So all in all, it took the jury four hours to find Yens. I'm surprised it took that long. To find Yens guilty on two counts of first degree murder. The judge sentenced him to two life sentences. Good. And he was sent to the Buckingham Correctional Center in Virginia. During his time in prison, he published five books and like mostly kept to himself while maintaining his innocence. And he once said, if I had committed the

murders, I would have committed them the way I committed the check fraud with care and planning. The slaughter of the haysems appeared risky, messy, and personal. Honey, that's not the, like, burn that you think it is. Like, that's not, that's not like the dunk that you think it is on anyone. Like, you're literally doing the if I did it. I was just going to say, you just took that from OJ. Yeah, nobody is, nobody cares what you, if I did. Okay.

It's like, don't make that statement. I thought you didn't do it. And like, so your mind is capable of murderous? activity. It doesn't make any sense. No. So in 1995, he filed an appeal and they said, fuck you. And then flash forward. It literally says that on the record. It's like, fuck you. And then flash forward to November of 2019. I don't like that look in your face. I don't like that look in your eyeballs to November of 2019. What's he doing, Ash? Yen Soaring and Elizabeth Hesim were both released early from prison. She's up. She's she,

She's actually up. She just, she left. Oh, she's coming back. She's coming back. She's coming back. I'm not shitting you. If that was on video, I was like, I don't know. I have to tell the rest of this to them and nobody else.

What? What are they? What's going on? They were released early after 30 years each. Why? According to the Richmond Times Dispatch, the chair of the Virginia, parole board, Adrian L. Bennett said, quote, the parole board has determined that releasing Yens Soaring and Elizabeth Hesam to their ICE deportation detainers is appropriate

because of their youth at the time of the offenses, their institutional adjustment, and the length of their incarceration. No. Yeah. No. Yeah. They weren't like 16. Like this isn't like they were like 14 year olds. Like, come on. Exactly. So while he was in prison, Yens did make a few points about new evidence that was able to be tested. There were 42 samples from the crime scene that were not linked to him in any way. Okay. 11 of those samples, samplies. 11 of those samples directly excluded not only him, but Elizabeth, too.

Okay. 24 of them couldn't be processed for DNA. And seven of them didn't contain enough information for comparison. Okay. I personally think that Elizabeth and Yens are 100, responsible for killing her parents. I think if these murders had occurred when more testing could have been done, it would have just given us a clearer picture of who did what. I was going to say that I think it would have locked it in if it was like you said at the time when we had the technology to

test this stuff, like fresh and like when it happened. And collection is better now. Exactly. Even collection, not even testing. So I think it's just a matter of they, they happen to do it at a time when they weren't going to get all of it. We just didn't have all of that. But I still think the right people went to prison. Yeah, I do too. Personally, there's people out there that don't. Wow. But I think the biggest part of this case that confuses me is motive. Now, Elizabeth definitely had a lot of anger toward her parents based on everything that happened, like clearly. And you can hear her talk about it in the different letters that she sent Yens. She's actually gone back and forth a lot of times when it comes to her relationship with her parents. She sometimes said that they were like the most doting and loving

parents. And other times she literally said it was that they loved her too much. Which at first I was like, like, how can somebody love somebody too much? And then I kind of got into like cryptic thinking with that. And then I was reading more about this case. And it turns out during a lot of interviews with police, they asked about her specific relationship with her mother, Nancy. And at one point or another, Elizabeth told Detective Gardner that her mother had been sexually abusive towards her.

Oh, boy. She said specifically that Nancy would, quote, come into her bed naked very often and indulgence in very affectionate hugging and kissing. Eek. Now, she later took that statement back and said, all she meant was that her mother was aggressively affectionate, but not that she had sexually abused her. Oh, boy. So when she took the stand for her official testimony, she said Nancy was not sexually abusive

and that she just loved her too much. She said she loved me. Like suffocating. Like too much. It was like her fault. Okay. Like too a fault, I mean. Yeah.

But because she has so many different versions of this story, regarding. the relationship with her mother. People who look into this case, you kind of just have to make your own conclusion based on the evidence. It is, however, worth noting that during their search of the home after the murders, investigators did find five photos tucked away in Nancy's art studio. The photos were of Elizabeth when she was younger and she was naked in all of them. Her genitalia was covered and it was seemingly like for art purposes. And those who knew Nancy said they must have been for her paintings because she had she literally did do paintings of people in the nude like they actually found one while they were going through the studio but elizabeth was like a younger

girl in these photos and it was just a little bizarre that's unsavory it's unsavory for sure for sure like that's not something you can just be like oh yeah that's what parents do yeah no no it's no very very strange that's really all there is to that because elizabeth has gone back and forth so many times, which if she was assaulted or abused by her mother, it makes sense. Clear motive. Yes, clear motive. And it makes sense like she's going back and forth because I'm sure part of her feels guilty for killing her mother if she did.

Oh, boy. It's a, oh, that adds a whole different layer to this. And she was, you can't really make a call. Well, you can't. She was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and a lot of times, not every time, but a lot of times people with borderline personality disorder, have gone through some kind of sexual assault in their childhood. And obviously, again, not everybody, but it's like a blanket statement.

It's a big part of it. Yeah, for sure. So we just don't know. Wow. But that changes a little bit. I mean, obviously it doesn't, it doesn't change the fact that they were murdered. Yeah. And it doesn't, you know, you can't really know.

You just don't know. All you can do is all we have is Elizabeth. And if that's what she went through, then dear God. Exactly. That's horrific. But I guess it does give you a bigger piece of the picture of the motive here. Of why she was so angry, if that is the case. Right. But again, it's like the two people who this is being said against are not here to defend themselves or to present any kind of

evidence to the contrary. Right. So that's tough. It is. I have no opinion on that. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I do. No, it's just, it's not fair to either party. Yeah, it's bizarre. Like, those photos are bizarre. And it's a fact. It's just that's facts. And it's worth noting, which I'm glad you did because it's you don't want to like hold stuff back that's gonna you know of course not no that's wild so to end this story in january of last year january of 2020 elizabeth was deported to canada and yens was deported deported to germany and they are both prohibited from ever entering the u.s again wow and that is the story of the murders of derrick and nancy hasten guys that was a wild ride. A wild ride. And again, the story, the book that I used for a lot of the research here

is beyond reason, the true story of a shocking double murder, a brilliant beautiful Virginia socialite and a deadly psychotic obsession written by Ken Englead. Wow. Yes. I mean, regardless of what went down those letters between the two of them and the diary entries and shit, still insufferable. You guys are talking about murdering them. Yeah. And then they got murdered. And then he got a bruise on his face at the funeral. He said he threw him. Yeah. Like he had a bruise on his face.

He said he was thrown against a wall. Like that checks out. Yeah. He had cuts all over his hand. That checks out. She has these tickets from these movies. No, it all adds up to them. Everything.

It's just now it's just become sticky with a matter of like motive and all that. Exactly. And the fact that she pled guilty anyway. Yeah. Like she was like, no, I don't want anything. Yeah. Like I just want me to jail. I did it.

Send me to prison. Wow. Like that's very telling. That's truly outrageous. Yeah. It's really just like sad case all around. I feel like it's like a new part maybe. I knew the names in this case, but I had no idea of the details.

Yeah, I didn't know any of this. Exactly how I feel. Because when I saw the book, I was like, obviously we were joking. Like I was like, oh, that drew me in. Yeah. And then I was reading a description. I was like, Elizabeth Hesim. Yeah, it sounds familiar.

Very, yeah, definitely. Wild. That was crazy. Wild. Thank you for bestowing that horrible. You're welcome. For a story on us. For leaving.

You're welcome. I just, I didn't know what to do. I had to go. I had to go. I did not see that coming. I wish that that had been. And I was like, and they got out of prison. You were like, and I'm out of this recording studio.

I'm leaving. I had no idea that was coming. Usually I didn't tell you. But when I saw it in, I was like, what are those eyeballs? I didn't tell you. I could see that twinkle in your eye like, I'm going to fuck you up in a second. Because I was telling her like little bits about this case, like in between the two recordings, but I left like big huge parts out.

Oh yeah. I wanted like real raw reaction. You got it. Boom. You got it. Yeah. Crazy. Wow.

Well, guys. as always, thank you so much for listening and happy holidays. Yeah, exactly. Hope you enjoy yourselves. Is this the last one before the holidays? Before the holidays, yeah. All right. So perfect. I just wanted to say, I hope you all have a merry and bright holiday with your family and eat whatever you want. It's going to be so yummy. It is. It's going to be wonderful. Open all your presents. And then guess what? This is my final message. If you have not done this, buy yourself a Christmas present. Yeah. I buy myself a Christmas present. Yeah. I buy myself a. Christmas present every year. My great grandma used to buy herself a Christmas present every year,

and I think everybody should do it. Yeah, but it's just even just something small. Yeah, it doesn't have to be huge. Of course not. That makes you happy. I got myself a pair of Adidas Swift runs. Oh, there you go. Fancy. Yay. Love that. I got a candle from Anita's Apothecary on Etsy and I think you guys should also get yourself one of those because they are the most beautiful candles. That's like a Tuesday for you. Yeah. Anita's Apothecary. Get it. Something else. I love Anita's Apothecary. Elena's house. is Anita's apothecary. Elena's apothecary. I love her with all my heart and soul. She makes the most beautiful candles.

She's an artiste. She is. And she's wonderful. And she ships them so fast. Oh, yeah. I think she teleports them to your home. She's just a very like, she's a very like, she puts things together very carefully, and it's just like you can tell she gives a shit. And it's just like, yeah. I love her. So go take a look at her own, Etsy. But yeah. Don't buy them all because I want them. Yeah, don't buy them all. All right. Well, we hope you keep listening.

We hope you. Keep it. We. But not so weird that any of this happens or pertains to your life because yikes. Literally none of it. Yikesies. Bye. Bye.