Morbid - Kiss and Kill Murder

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

When Betty Williams’ boyfriend, Mack Herring, broke up with her during their senior year of high school, her entire world felt like it was collapsing in on her. She had been struggling with depression and anxiety for some time, all of which seemed compounded by the problems of a society and culture that in 1961 seemed steadfastly unwilling to accept her for who she was. For Betty, death seemed the only way to free herself from the losing battle she had been fighting; however, despite her commitment to ending her life, Betty simply didn’t have what she described as “the fortitude necessary” to go through with it. Instead, she begged one last thing of the young man who had just broken her heart—she wanted him to pull the trigger for her. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is a regularly scheduled morbid. It's so crazy. It feels a little weird to just have to be recording with you. I know. It's weird. I hope everybody's dug our crazy amounts of collabs that we've been shoving down your

throats. Honestly, it's been so much fun to get to, like, make podcasts with other podcasters. I feel like it's been so cool. I have loved it. It has been a blast. Yeah, it truly has. Like the collab with that spooky was so fun. If you haven't listened to that yet, I know like movie reviews aren't everybody's thing,

but I really have to say that was a really good one. And it was such a fun time. And by the looks of it, even because I was a little like, I don't know if everybody's going to love it because it's a movie review. Some people don't like that. Seems like it's gotten positive reviews across the board. So even if you don't think you're going to be into it, give it a shot because the guys from that spooky.

to die for. And if you haven't listened to their podcast, you have to go listen to that. Exactly. It's going to make you want to run right over. I've seen a lot of people be like, I'm going and subscribing to them right now because that's how great they were. And we have a lot of the same listeners, which I didn't really realize before. A lot of people were like, oh my God, my two favorite podcasts. And I love that. That was cool. That warmed my heart. And then Elena got to do her dream collab. Guys, I got to collab with Billy fucking Jen. So insane. It's still blowing my mind that that happened. It truly is. That was a lot of fun. Billy Jensen is probably one of the smartest people I've ever been in the chat room with, I would say. I was so quiet that whole episode because I was so nervous. I was like, I don't want Billy Jensen to think that I'm an idiot. Well, you probably just let me like. Well, yeah, and I wanted you to shine. On my fan girl rampage that I went on. It's so funny because a lot of people were like, which I really appreciate by the way. A lot of people were like, uh, Elena. Like, I was so happy for you.

And then they were like, and a couple of people were like, I know you must have been fan-girling so hard, but it didn't come off that way just so you know. No, dude. Which I was like, guys, that is the greatest compliment you've ever given me. Because inside my soul, I was like a fool. No, I totally get that. You did a really good job because I was like, obviously we're not in the same room anymore, but I was looking at you.

And I was like, she doesn't even look nervous, this bitch. I was like, I feel like I look more nervous. I'm like hiding. Like, and then I last week was over at Horror Soup filling in for Bree, who was feeling much better this week. So they're going to be back to their regular recordings. But Caleb and I did a movie review or like, what's it called? A movie when you like say what the movie was about. Oh, like a recap?

Yeah, recap. Thank you. I was like, my brain is mush. Well, and it's, it was a good one because it is. going with what our episode is going to be for today. Yes, today Elena has gathered for you some information, probably the most information, about John Wayne Gacy. That's right. I'm like not ready for this. I don't think anybody is. Nobody's really ready for John Wayne Casey. You just kind of like, okay, here he comes. Yeah. I have a very cool piece of information that I'm going to share like right

before we start talking about John Wayne Gacy. Oh yeah, I know this piece of information. It's awesome. It's so crazy and wild. But this is going to be a multi-parter, probably two parts, actually, from when I was looking through everything. So this will be part one. And it's pretty gnarly at times.

So just putting that out there that it can get a little rough. And there's a lot of talk of, like, sexual assaults. Yeah. Mainly on teenage boys. So, you know, just so you know, that's coming. Well, and one of my biggest fears is clowns. And so this really is going to be a wild ride for me. Yeah, because he is a, he's not a good clown.

Not a good clown. Yeah, I'm afraid of bad clowns, not like good clowns. Yeah. There's good clowns. So, oh, and we have one more collab coming up next week. And we can't say who this person is yet. I mean, we could if we wanted to, but it'll be more fun to not say. It was, because it was fun to do.

the Billy Jensen reveal, so I think it's fun to, yeah, to tease this one out too. This one is one of my dream guests. I think this is going to be such a fun episode, and you'll just have to wait until next week, but you can write your guesses in who you think it is. Yeah, when we post the Instagram for this episode, we will make sure to put underneath it, like, take your guesses so you can throw them out there, because it was actually kind of funny that a few people did guess Billy Jensen for us. Yeah, a good amount of people did. For sure. But then some people guess that it was going to be John. That will never happen. As much as we want that to happen, it's just you're never going to get it. I hope, but you know, I'll

hold out hope. In fact, some people thought it was John. Actually, one person, I shouldn't say some people. One person thought it was John. That's awesome. Which is adorable. And no, it wasn't. That's a good compliment. It is. Yeah. I love that. Well, we need to shout out our shows. I don't really know if it's a shout-up, but it's an announcement. Shouting out the shows. Some of these probably aren't going to happen. We don't know which ones are going to be postponed, but we just have to

say them the way that they are. We're just rolling with it as it comes. So keep sure you keep listening to the latest updates. Yeah, I'm assuming these first two will probably be rescheduled, and we'll let you know when that happens. But for now, June 2nd, we are supposed to be at the Good Night's Comedy Club in

Raleigh, North Carolina. Raleigh, we will see you some time. June 3rd at the Comedy Zone in Charlotte, North Carolina. You too, Charlotte. We're coming for you at some point. This one's got to happen. October 11th at Talia Hall in Chicago. Oh yeah. Come on, October. It's going to, COVID's going to be long gone by October. Totally 100%. And that's actually two shows in one day, one night.

Then July 8th is going to be at the Comedy Works South in Greenwood Village, Colorado. Colorado, I feel good about it. I want to go to Colorado still. badly. I love it there. I mean, we will, no matter what. It's just a matter if it's going to happen when it's scheduled or not. Mm-hmm. Yep. Hopefully this one is still going to happen. July 11th at the Wilbur Theater. The Wilbur needs to happen. And I'm starting to get nervous that it's going to have to be pushed. I mean, if it does get pushed, it'll still happen. So like everybody, let's all hold hands and hope.

All these shows that are going to get postponed, still buy tickets anyway, because no matter what, We want to get these postponed, so you'll just have tickets anyway. Exactly. So make sure you're getting the tickets because, like Ash said, it's going to happen. So your tickets will transfer. And we want to make sure we're selling, you know, a lot of tickets for these places so that we can keep doing this. So the more you buy, the more we get to do this. Then on August 11th, we have Philadelphia at the Punchline Comedy Club.

I can't wait to go to Philadelphia. Philly's going to be fun, going to get me a cheese steak. You're going to ring the Liberty Bell. Yeah. And we were all ready for Philadelphia. So I need Philadelphia now because we were, the day that it was supposed to be, we were both like, oh. Yeah, that was a really sad day. I think I ate a pint of Ben and Jerry's that day.

I'm not even lying. I mean, that's just like any other day too. But it was for Philadelphia. It was sad Ben juries. September 16th, we're supposed to be in Washington, D.C. at the D.C. Improv. We're going to see you in your monuments. Mm-hmm. September 23rd, Nashville, Tennessee, two shows at Zanies.

Zanies. We are very excited for you. Zanies is supposed to be a really cool venue, so I'm stoked. These are all really cool venues. And then last but not least is Huntsville, Alabama at Stand Up Live. That's going to be September 24th. Alabama, Roll Tide, War Eagle, all that good stuff. We're going to see you. We're going to see you.

We are. All these shows are going to be. great, but do you know what's even greater than live shows? What's greater than the live shows? Patreon! Patreon! I just, there's like such a huge, like, bloof in my recording, it's like, Patreon, so we're not going to make any more excuses. It's time to shout you out. It's time to get it together. Yes. And we are, we're rolling out some big stuff on Patreon in the coming, what is it, the next couple weeks. We're working with our team.

they have a lot of good ideas. Everybody has great ideas and everyone is so helpful. It's been all hands on deck and we start with getting back on our shoutout train and more fun things will come after that and you'll be seeing it in the beginning of May. Yes. For today, these are newer patrons because I need to figure out how to go back and figure out everybody that we've already named. So older ones will be named.

These are just newer ones this week. But don't be upset if you don't hear your name. You're going to hear it, I promise. You are. So number one is Jessica B. Jessica B. Lily Cox. Lily Cox. Amanda Dale. Thank you so much. Amanda Dale. Then we have Jen Barker. Jen Barker. And then Maddie Moan. Maddie Moan. Megan Thomas.

Tony Thomas. Tony Grady. We've got two Madonna's coming up. We have Corey. Corey. And Katie. Katie. So hot right now. Oh my God. Sorry. Sorry. Three. Madonna's. Last but not least for this week, Alicia, so hot right now. Alicia, so hot right now. Do you remember when we used to say that? I was listening through old episodes today and I was like, oh my God, little babies with horrible audio. You know what? Patrona says, we love you so much and we appreciate every single one of you. We really do. The best ever. We could not do this without you. No, legitimately. No, not at all. So we're going to be shouting out 10 patrons per episode and we're going to do it every episode right after we announce our shows. So without further ado, since this is

going to be a longer intro than you're used to, let's crack into the guys. All right. So we're going to start it off by setting kind of a grim scene here. Oh, wait, I was supposed to say my thing really quick. The other night at dinner, Annie's dad was like, we were talking about serial killers as one does at dinner. And Annie's dad grew up in Chicago and knew one of John Wayne Gasey's victims. Oh yeah, that's crazy. He was like, yeah, he just disappeared one day and nobody knew where he went. Wow. That's bonkers.

That's my cool doodad. I love that. He's just like, yeah. It's just the thing that I knew. Yeah, he said it so casually. I was like, okay. Okay, Joe. Well, shit.

I'm like, all right. Well, this is where it's going to get real grim. Awesome. On December 22nd, 1978, John Wayne Gasey confessed to 33 or possibly 34 murders of a young teenage boy. Oh. Yeah. Yikes.

He's very prolific. He said it was done over a period of about seven years, and he drew the investigators a map of the locations of 29 of the bodies, which were in a crawl space under his house and in his garage. That is so wild to me that they were all in his home, essentially. Oh, yeah. He ran out of room at one point. Yeah. He had so many.

The four or five others that he said that he couldn't fit in the crawl space. space or in the garage because he was like I literally ran out of from right um he threw their bodies into the de plains river oh hate that when he confessed he said quote there are four johns meaning four of himself he said there's john the contractor john the clown and john the politician the fourth john which he called jack was the killer and he said he did evil things but like it's you john for sure Okay. It is definitely you, John. It's very weird to refer to this man as John. Yeah, that must be really weird for you. I'm really sorry. I kept writing John and then I switched

to calling him Gacy because I was like, I can't call him John anymore. Yeah, I don't blame you. I was going to say, I guess we could just call him Jack if you wanted to. He's going to be Gacy from here on out. I'm into it. So Gacy's methods include his infamous handcuff trick, and I'm going to get into these later and more detail. A system he called the. the rack, which was a wooden plank with holes for a head and hands to be placed in. And this was a plank attached to the ceiling of his basement by chains. Yeah, they show that in the Gasey movie that Caleb and I covered. And it was real disturbing.

It's very unpleasant. Once these boys were handcuffed or in this rack, they were tortured with various items. He was definitely a torture. Yeah. Mostly he used sex toys, dildos mostly, and things that Gasey. improvised into dildos. Okay. This is real rough. This is going to be a lot like the toy box

murder for me. A little bit, yeah. And this one's real rough, so just everybody hang on. Among, so when they went into his home when they caught him, they found a ton of things. They found a lot of these things that he used to torture boys. They also found

a two-foot-long dildo in the insulation of his crawl space. An 8 18 inches of that was covered in blood and other substances. Oh my God. E. 18 inches. That's horrific.

His methods of dispatching these boys in the end after hours of torture and rape were to either stab them or use a homemade garot and slowly strangle them to death. Oh, my God. So they were just tortured from beginning to end. Oh, tortured from beginning. And most of the time these boys would lay dying for hours before finally dying. Did he actually like try to like drown people in the end? in his bathtub, like, did he mess with him that way? Or was that fake in the movie?

From what I've read, he did like to do stuff like that. I don't know exactly. It's not exactly like, you know, and he also was alone in his house for a lot of these times. Like, we'll get to it. Eventually, he divorces his wife and ends up living in the home alone, which is when he really went like, like ramps up. Yeah. So John Wayne Gasey was born on March 17th, 1942 in Chicago, Illinois. Okay. He was the second of three children and he was the only boy. He was born to John Stanley Gacy and Marion Robinson. John was physically and verbally abused by his father his entire life. Yeah. Like as the only boy and as we'll see John had a lot of issues or Gacy had a lot of issues. So his father kind of like really picked on him like honed down and his father was literally a

piece of shit. Like, his father is the worst. Um, he was an aggressive, abusive alcoholic. Oh, that's awful. John was his, was his only boy and he was a toxic masculinity kind of dad. So John didn't really live up to that ideal for him. Right. Because John didn't like sports. He wasn't very tough. He didn't like things like fishing and stuff like, you know, things that like, you know, are supposed to be like gender normative for boys. You know, like he just, he just, he, he, he, he doesn't like, he. He didn't like, he. He He didn't really like that stuff. And as we'll see, he had a lot of physical issues and health issues that kind of stopped him from liking a lot of these things, which are not his fault. That's the thing.

But the reason I put his confession, what he confessed to and the shit he did first in this is that you won't feel sympathy for him. Yeah. When I discuss like how shitty his father was because do I think his father had a hand in creating who he was? Yeah. I do. do I think it's totally a nurture thing? No, because I don't think one or the other takes precedence. I think it's a combination of both.

I agree with you on that. Yeah. But I don't want anyone to feel bad for him because there are points when you might be like, Jesus Christ, poor kid. Well, and it's human nature to want to feel bad for somebody that's going through something like this. But then it's like, you have to look at what they did with their life. And it's like, okay.

Yeah. And you can look at it when he's a child and go that poor child. Because John Wayne Gacy has a child. as a child is not John Wayne Gacy, the killer. The murderer. Right. So it's like you can definitely look at it and be like that poor kid. Like that's sad. But just remember that what he became was his choice.

He decided to be who he was. So he, again, he was a toxic masculinity kind of dad. He constantly called him like homophobic names, called him a girl all the time. It's like, come on. Yeah, it's just all that shit. And again, this is like a long time ago. And it really, you know, the idea. Yeah, exactly.

It just wasn't ever going to be accepted for him to be anything less than this, like, macho guy. John, like many kids that are abused, became obsessed with gaining his father's approval. That's really sad. Which is a very common thing with abused kids is no matter how. Like, you see it in the Gabriel Hernandez case. Which we're never covering, right? An awful case. I don't know if I'll be able to.

cover that case. I don't think I could. It's a really hard one. But he was even up to the very end. He was writing, I love you, mom. You know what I mean? Like, this is what abused kids are always going to look for that. Because all they want is that moment of like showing love. Because you brought them into the world. It's like, yeah, they're hardwired. Yeah. They're hardwired to like want your approval and your love. And you're supposed to be hardwired to give it to them, but some people aren't. Yeah. So John claims to have been sexually. abused by several people in his youth. One incident, he says, was in 1946 when a mentally challenged 15-year-old girl brought

then a then-four-year-old John into a field and molested him. Oh, no. Yeah. So, 1949, when he was about seven, he was molested by a man who was a family friend, a contractor. He would take John for rides in his truck and have him help him on jobs, but he also sexually abused him. Right.

And he said he would like sit in the car and he would like reach over and grab him. Like he said he never wanted, he used to dread when this guy would come over because he never wanted to take rides with him. But he would do it just to please everybody. One, his dad was probably going to get fucking mad at him if he didn't. Exactly. And he never told his parents about what was going on because he was afraid his dad was going to blame him. Right. When John was around six years old, he started stealing his money.

other's underwear. That's interesting. It's interesting because he said he liked the feeling of it. Okay. And later they would find bags of this underwear buried in the backyard or under the house. That almost reminds me of BTK because didn't he write about like liking his mom's nightgown or something like that? Yeah. And he liked the feel of it and everything. And there's a lot of little snippets that will remind you of fucking Dennis in this whole thing. Fucking Dennis. Fucking Dennis. And there are a couple of times when I'm like, huh, like they were slightly similar, which is interesting. Similar in some ways, not in always.

But this is also important because later a lot of his victims were found with their underwear stuffed deep in their throats. Oh, oh, that's horrible. So it's a very odd like connection here. Later, when he was around 12 years old, a similar incident occurred. that like, you know, his mom was missing underwear. She was like, what is going on? She found the underwear, like, in his possession somehow. And then basically what she told him was, like, I'm going to make you wear this underwear if you like it so much.

Oh, that's probably not the best way of handling that. It's never, yeah. When you're like, it's never going to force your child to wear anything like that. You know, you're like forcing your child to wear something for their own, for your own entertainment or their humiliation is fucked. Yeah, that's how you... Real fucked. That's how you mess somebody up. Yeah, exactly.

Now, in the book, which is a good book about this case, called Buried Dreams Inside the Mind of John Wayne Gacy by Tim Cahill, John Wayne Gacy's mother explained an event that pretty much describes his father to a T. It'll tell you everything you need to know about his father. So when John was only two and a half years old, his younger sister Karen was three weeks old, and his older sister Joanne was four, all little, little kids. Yeah.

They were sitting at the table eating dinner as a family, when all of a sudden, for literally no reason at all, John Sr. exploded. He threw a handful of food directly in his wife's face. Oh, my God. And then punched her square in the face. Just out of nowhere? Out of nowhere.

She says, quote, and this is his mother speaking. Quote, he hit me square in the face and knocked my bridge out. I was all blood. I ran out. I got away. And she said the kids were all screaming. She ran into the street, fell down. A neighbor ran to her and called the police and was screaming at John Sr. not to touch her. Yeah. So John Sr. goes stomping in the house past his screaming traumatized children. Oh no. Grabbed a handgun and left. And just left. Okay. So she took her kids and went to her sister-in-law's house for a few days.

later they went home and he showed up to a freshly made dinner by the mother and everything just went back to normal they never discussed it what yeah that's horrible and it's like so you have a three week old a two and a half year old and a four year old and you get up and literally punch their mother in the face in front of them and then you have no consequences to face and your children are all these babies that all around you are screaming in terror and you just run out of the house with a gun and then have no and then a couple weeks later everything's fine yeah and he comes home to a homemade meal sits down and eats his meal it's like what did the and those kids obviously learned like that's what that's love this is yep yeah that's what a relationship is that's exactly what they're

all probably thinking this is what because look nothing happened they just went back to what they were right now interestingly when he was ten years old. They moved into a new home and this one had a big basement. Oh. That basement became his father's cave. Like, his father was obsessed with this basement. He was down there all the time. He wouldn't allow any of them to come down there.

He locked the door to the basement so they couldn't come down. So it's not your typical man cave, I feel. No. Like, if somebody needed to go down there, if like a fuse blue or something, they had to wait for him to come home to go down there. Do we find out what's down there? No, you don't actually. Nobody knows what was down there.

What the fuck? But it's like you see this connection that later comes out where all of Gacy's victims end up in a basement or a crawl space of some sort. Yep. And so the father would stay down in his basement a ton. And sometimes they would have to wait for him to eat dinner. Like he would be down there and they'd all be sitting at the dinner table. No one could touch their dinner or start eating without him. and if they called him up to be like, hey, dinner's ready, he would come up and flip out and, like, beat the shit out of somebody.

Oh, you know, typical Sunday dinner. He's a literal monster. Like, what is this dude's issue? Yeah. I don't understand people like that. But, so John Gacy was the, you know, John Gacy Jr., we'll say, was diagnosed with a congenital heart condition. Mm-hmm. He couldn't do a lot of physical activity, like I said.

And this is when he started gaining. a lot of weight. Okay. Because he wasn't able to do any activities. He was just kind of eating, you know, like he was like the apple of his mom's eye. He was, by all accounts, very close to his mother and very close to his sisters. Okay. And his sisters will say, like, he was an amazing brother. We loved him. Well, that's good. Which, and it's strange. Well, it's like Dennis. It's like he was able to have a daughter and a wife and they were like, what the fuck when they found out what he did. Exactly. And there were times that they both said. And there were times that they both. said like he could be like you know the daughter and the children will be like he was a great

father at times like it's just very weird no it really is just like they turn it on and shut it back off yeah like they can yeah it's very odd like it's like he says like there's four johns i mean yeah there is i guess and apparently there is another one so at age 11 he started having these weird blackouts okay and nobody knows what they are so he ends up being hospitalized for them the doctors couldn't figure out what was going on had a ton of trouble diagnosing him but he kept going in and out of the hospital and his and his father was thinking he was faking it like being dramatic oh that's nice but it's like no he's going unconscious and blacking out you can't really fake that yeah like you can't fake that so what they ended up finding out eventually

was he was diagnosed with some kind of congenital heart conditions it was a decision And this congenital heart condition, I can't, why do I keep going to say decisions? Because I feel like you're going to say disease and then you say condition, so it turns into decision. So it's both. You're like, it was a decision. It was a decision that he made. This congenital heart disease or condition. There you go.

Nobody knows exactly what it was. I can't find it anywhere. But it sounds like it's probably like an arrhythmia of some kind if he's fainting and blacking out because that can cause that. lot. But that's just me speculating. That's not me saying it from anything. Well, you're smart, so you probably know. Yeah, you know. But, uh, so he couldn't do a lot of physical activity because he couldn't get his heart going a lot because it was dangerous. That was when he would black out. Um, so this is when he started gaining a lot of weight and he started being seen as weak. His father's kind of taking this as like, you're a sissy, you're a girl. You can't, you know,

you're not what I need you to be. Which is rude because, like, for one thing, it's rude. And then another thing is girls can do a lot of things, Mr. Gacy Sr. Of course they can. Yeah, docher. And this is when he started getting bullied a lot at school to, like, he was just not having a good time. And eventually, five years into this heart condition, these blackouts, they were, because they were having trouble getting them under control. Like, they were trying to figure out what they could do here.

He kept getting hospitalized for them. him, the doctors finally figure out that there is also a blood clot in his brain. Oh, shit. Yeah. That's never good. No. And they were able to fix it. They were able to do something that was able to dissipate it.

But he missed a ton of school. And he was still getting into it. His father was still being a dick. In fact, his dad was still abusing him, like beating him and abusing him while he was recovering from having a blood clot removed in his brain. Now, do you know if his dad ever caused like any kind of head trauma? We don't know specifically, but I would venture to guess that he probably did. Because if somebody's recovering from a head surgery, a brain surgery, and then you're like kicking the shit out of them, I mean, you're probably going to do some damage.

Well, that's the thing. And it's like he sounds like he's a legitimate monster. Like, he would truly, I mean, just look at, he literally stood up and punched his wife in the face so hard that her bridge flew out. Yeah. So it's like, you know he was being very violent with John. So I wonder if he did suffer some kind of head trauma. I would not be surprised at all. It's too bad they never were able to find out. Yeah.

And, well, the blood clot definitely probably did something. Yeah. And he missed a ton of school. So he was going to different high schools trying to finish up. He ended up not being able to and dropping out before he was able to finish with his high school diploma. Oh. And this was just another reason for his. father to call him stupid because his father love to call him stupid and dumb. And this just kind of

was like his proving thing. Like, see, you're too stupid to finish high school. Like, no, I'm actually kind of sick. But yeah, I don't want to stick up for John Wayne Gacy. No, I know. This is like child John Wayne Gacy. Yeah. We'll always stick up for the kids. Yeah. Now, when he dropped out of high school, his father helped him buy a car so that he could get around and find a job. Okay. It ended up being kind of a source of contemption, though, like not a nice thing, because it became a thing that his father could hold over him and kind of take power away from him again because he's like, well, I bought this for you. Abusers love to do that shit.

Exactly. And after a ton of fights, usually regarding the car, John left home at about 18 years old and moved to Las Vegas. Okay. Because he had just had enough. Now, he was already starting to become involved in politics at a pretty young age. He had a big interest in working for the Democratic. party. So see, I told you, John Wayne Gacy's a Democrat.

Exactly. John Wayne Gacy's a Democrat. Ted Bundy was a Republican. We're not all we're saying is it was pertinent information. Everything sucks. That's what we're saying. So, and he started working as an assistant precinct captain for his, like, local Democratic Party. Okay. He was great at this. He was very smooth talker. He was very charming. People really liked him. Like he really got... Sounds like Ted. He really...

Yeah, he's got a lot of these like little bits and pieces from other serial killers. And that's a good quality to have if you want to be some kind of politician, obviously. Oh, yeah. They're typically really good at talking to people. A lot of people said he had a very promising career in politics if he had actually, which is what they said about Ted. Yeah, I've heard that a lot about... Yeah.

Obviously, Ted and then I've heard that a lot about Gacy. Yeah. And again, he was great. He could hold a room's attention at ease. he was just really well-liked one it's like he got out of high school and he started like really understanding how to like smooth talk people like get what he wanted um and of course his father chastised him for being a democrat oh he did it was just another thing that he could latch on to it's like he could he could probably if he was a republican his dad probably would have chastised him

for that too like right i think it's just no matter what he did everything was wrong enough yeah um So while he's in Las Vegas, he did get, he got sick. And he had gone to Las Vegas with like no money, no job. Like he just kind of ran out there. Yeah. And he had to go to the hospital because he got sick. The hospital bill was apparently $36, but back then it's a lot of money. Okay.

But John couldn't pay it because he didn't have any of your money or a job. But while we're trying to figure out this bill at the hospital, he ends up convincing them to give him a job driving an ambulance. Okay. That's how smooth talking he was. He convinced them while he's figuring out his bill to give him a job. Wow. A job he was not qualified for. At all.

So he was eventually fired from this job because he didn't have a high school diploma and that was necessary for the job. Uh-huh. But he had convinced them that he had all the requirements and they were like, yeah. Well, and he probably paid his bill off. So there you go. So that's how charming he was. So in Las Vegas, Gacy worked for the ambulance service for a short time, but after he

was fired, he ended up working at a mortuary for a little while, like a very short period of time. Okay. He was apparently, he got a job as an attendant there, and he would spend nights there a lot, and they said he would sleep on a cot outside of the embalming room. Okay. On one of the last nights that he worked there, there is reports that he fondled the corpse of a teenage boy. Oh. And this was when he realized that he was aroused by teenage boys.

Okay. Yep. Good time to start therapy. Yeah. And that's when he didn't continue that job anymore. Mm-hmm. And he called his mother and he asked her if he could come home. He didn't tell her exactly why.

His father said it was fine. But he said when you get home, you have to get a job. You have to be a man. You have to do all that stuff. So he ended up returning home. He enrolled at a local community business college, northwestern business college, I think it is. And after graduating business school, he got a job working for a shoe company as a salesman. The shoe company was called Nunbush Shoe Company, and he excelled.

He was an amazing salesman because he had the charm, he had the smooth talking. Like he had everything you need to be a good salesman. And so he did really well there. He impressed them a lot. And he was eventually transferred to a management position at another outlet in Springfield, Illinois. Okay. So he moves to Springfield. And he joins the JCs organization.

So the JCs is an organization that focuses like on building management, training skills, allows its members to do a lot of community engagement, some networking. community service. It's for, I think it's ages 18 to like 40 years old, I think it is. Very inclusive. We love to see it. Yeah. It's a very, it's a lot of like networking.

It's a lot of just like dudes, you know, doing stuff with other dudes. Okay. Like doing dude thing. Just dudes being guys. Just dudes being guys, you know. So he rose through the JC's ranks. And in April 1964, he got the title of key man. Key man.

So, major key. He made your key. So it is, it's serious now. In 1965, he actually got the position of vice president of the JCs in the Springfield division. Well, shit. Later, I know, he's like really doing his own life up. He did.

He had all the tools to be a successful person and he chose the wrong path. He chose it. There's two paths in life. He's an idiot. It makes me so, because it's like, you look at people like this and you're like, you're a piece of absolute garbage. And you didn't have to be. And you didn't have to be. But you chose to go there.

And it's like, you're so gross. Because he's like a true, he's a true pig man. Mm. Yep. So the same year in 1965, he got the distinguishment of being the third most outstanding JC in the state of Illinois. I mean, I've been told that's a very huge honor. It's a huge honor. Huge.

Huge. And he got this honor a lot, mostly from his enrollment that he was able to gain from he was able to get a lot of people to join the JCs. Oh, okay. I will tell you how he was able to do that in a moment. I feel as though it's not going to be good. No, it wasn't like he would, you know, be like, let's go. have some coffee and discuss why this is a great organization. That's not what it was.

Oh, no. Come on, man. Why not do that? So the year before all these awards were awarded in 1964, he had met his first wife, Marilyn Myers. Oh, I didn't know he had a first wife. Oh, he did. News alert, bitch. Yeah, and he met her while working at the shoe store, like managing the shoe store along with her. Okay. They got engaged and married in like nine months. I mean, bang, bang, boom. Whirlwind romance. Let's get it.

Maryland's family owned a ton of Kentucky fried chicken franchises in Waterloo, Iowa. Oh my God. Okay. Okay. I know where we're going. Yeah. So when they got engaged and married, her father friend, off her father friend. I was like, what?

I was like his name is friend. Her father friend. No, her father friend. Like, your sister friend. Your sister friend. Your father friend. Fred offered John three franchises because he was like, you're a great salesman, you're a great manager, I have faith in you. So again, he is being handed an opportunity.

So he takes this opportunity and he moves him in Maryland to Iowa so they can manage these three franchises. They also moved into Maryland's parents' homes for home for free for a bit. So he was able to save money. We love a rent-free situation. Exactly. And he got very active in the Waterloo community as well and ended up getting involved with the JCs in the Waterloo, Iowa area now. Okay. Because he just loved it. The JCs, am I right? Now, in this, I did read and this reminded me of BTK, that in the JCs organization, members can kind of like form their own committees. They can really focus on certain things that they really want to, that they think are important for like civic engagement and community stuff.

John really focused on littering and like pollution as his platform. Okay. Which blows my mind that like these, it's like BTK. Like these monsters can focus on something like littering or like in BTK's case like lawn and like pet zoning rules. Yeah. You know. And focus on these cement. They're important issues, but they're also brutally torturing and murdering people at the same time.

And it's like you're worried about littering, but you're going to murder. Yeah. Like you want to save the planet, but you also want to like just. destroy it. Murder young boys? Like, I don't understand you. It's weird. It's just very weird.

But he definitely found himself to have a real talent for fundraising, probably due to his personality and his, you know, good salesman ways. In 1967, he received the award as outstanding vice president of the Waterloo JCs. Well, shite. He also got a seat on the board of directors. I mean, listen, dude. You're really doing in the ranks.

Yeah. Like, just, man, just stay on the straight and narrow. But underneath at all, there's some weird, weird shit already happening. Underneath at all is a fucking monster. Is that a pink song? Underneath and all? I have no idea. Sorry, I want to skeet.

You're asking the wrong person. It's same. There's a true, and what you'll see is that a lot of this was all well and fine that he's doing so great and he's being successful. But then you realize why? It was all biting. time until his real desires were pushed to the surface. He was just pushing him down. This whole time, he's just pushing down the fact that he knows he's into young boys,

that he's into teenage boys. He's trying to act because this, again, remember, his father harped on him forever that called him homophobic names, was constantly calling him a, you know, a sissy, a girl, all this, like basically telling him like, you're gay and blah, blah, and that's not okay. Right. And I think John Wayne Gacy was at the very least bisexual. Yeah. Well, yeah. But he was definitely into dudes, young, but he was into young boys. Which is not okay.

He was also a pedophile, which I think he gets labeled a lot like a rapist and, you know, a gay serial killer and all that. But in reality, he's a pedophile. Yeah, exactly. That's just what he was. Because these boys are young. Right. They might not be like five and six, you know what I mean? Some of them were like as young as 12, right? And they're just, that's, and it's young, like 16 year olds, like 15 year olds, these are young.

Yeah. Those are little kids. So underneath all the accomplishment and success was some real shit. Like, just some real shit. Some real sewage. Now, the JCs in Waterloo were rife with drug use and illegal activity under the surface. As all big organizations were. Yeah.

It's like they're never what they seem. He was in charge of recruiting members in this organization, too. And like I said, he wasn't just taking them out for coffee and just explaining what a great opportunity the JCs would offer people. He did so by organizing wild parties at hotels where he would show these members, these hopeful members, stag films, so illegal porn, and organize orgies with sex workers.

at these parties. Oh. So that's what he was doing to get people to join the JCs. That's one way to sell your cause. It seems like it's a lot of work. And like, you could probably just go to Denny's and grab an unlimited bacon breakfast. Because it's like, okay, so they join your organization. I guess it would look, it was kind of like a look how cool the JCs are kind of thing. Like, hey, look, we party. And it's also a, hey, I'll tell your wife if you don't join. Yeah. The It's like a blackmail thing. Right. Hey, cool.

We had this fun, you know, orgy in a hotel room. I'm going to tell your wife if you don't join the organization. Oh, wow. Yeah. Smart. Cuttingly smart. Yep. And he got his first wife into swinging as a couple.

Oh. So he was into swinging. Which is not. Yeah. That's not like, I'm not like, oh. No, that's just a fact. It's not my thing, but like, Farby, it meant for me to tell anybody else how to live their life. Yeah.

But it's just part of his whole lifestyle at this point. Right. Marilyn and John started a family around this time because it seems like a very nurturing environment to bring children into. Yeah, always. Their first child was a boy in 1967 and their second one was a girl born in 1968. Gacy at this point said that he thought things were pretty perfect in his life at this moment. Okay. This was also, when all this was going on, this is when his father finally showed him a little respect.

Like, his father was like, you're married, which probably to him was like, cool, you're not gay. Right. Like, you're married. You have kids of your own. You have a house. You're doing well at work. You're doing great things in your community. You're rising the ranks.

You're doing all this stuff. So I think this is the first time that he saw that his dad wasn't being like, you're a piece of shit and I hate you. Right. Which is really sad. But this is also when his interest in young boys started to bubble over. He couldn't hold it in anymore. He was always around teen boys. At work and outside of work, people began to take notice because he had a lot of teen boys working at the KFCs that he was own it, like co-owning.

Right. He also started getting, oh, he also started getting really like a big, you. ego and he was getting very overly confident because he was successful right now. So he's starting to get this like air of just like, I'm a big shot. I can do anything. Because in the JCs, he's climbing the ranks, he's getting all these awards. He's having these fucking like orgy parties. He's the fucking colonel.

He's like, fuck the worlds. I'm doing it. Like, I'm grabbing the world by the balls. So he ended up forcing everyone at his franchises to call him the colonel. Like, I think I just spoiler alerted that. Yep. They had to call him the colonel. Like, he was very serious about it.

Is that where the colonel was porn? Or did that happen before? Oh, okay. No. I don't know. KFC was, like, from Colonel Sanders. Like, that's like, it all came together. Okay.

No, John Wayne Gasey did not. I was like, we should let that die if that's the case. That's hilarious that you thought. Your girl? Okay, no, no, no. Just to, like, bring trash into the scene for a moment, your girl loves a good $5 fill up. I think that's what they.

KFC is all about and I was going to feel real bad about eating at a KFC if he was the OG Colonel. You're good. He's not the OG Colonel. Colonel Sanders is the OG Colonel. I knew that. But in my head, I was like, who came first? The Sanders or the Gacy.

Imagine if they were still having like commercials with the colonel and it was jumping gasey. That's what I literally was like, oh, fuck. Like, that's a corrupt establishment. I love that you thought that. You know, my brain, it's not firing as well as it used to. On all cylinders. No, it's not.

It's fire. on about three. Now, in order to have team boys around him all the time, he turned his basement into kind of like a bro pad. He loves a bro pod. He was like, I would make this a cool place. It was just kind of like, you know, he would have porn down there, and he had like a pool table, and he had, he just made it like a bro cave. Didn't he have like a lot of pictures of clowns, too? There's no, there's nothing. I think you're going off of the movie, and the movie was very loosely interpreted. Gotcha.

There's nothing that says he had a clown photos in his. Gotcha. I don't think he had any kind of clowns or anything. It was just that they really like to play on that. Yeah. And so he would take teenage, he would invite teenage boys back to his place.

Be like, you can come down to my cool basement. We can have a beer and hang out. He would take them down there, show them porn, get them high or drunk. and then this is where he would sexually assault them. Oh, no. Now, what's weird to me is I'm like, I'd had no idea that porn was like a group activity.

Typically, I don't think it is. Like, it's like all of these stories are like, and then they all went down there and watched porn together. They had a porn party. And it's like... I feel like that's typically a very personal thing in someone's life. I was somewhere and someone was like, do you think like we should just like in the middle?

Should we all just like hang out and watch porn? I'd be like, I have plans that minute. to leave. What are you? My Uber's here. You want to watch porn by all means. Like go right ahead. Not with me. I get it. But I'm not going to sit next to you while you do it. And you're not going to sit next to me. This is not a thing that we're going to do together.

Like, it's so weird to me. Yeah. So that's weird. So yeah. So he was using it as an excuse to sexually assault teen boys. Oh, man. It came to a real head when he became very brazen about it. In August 1967 he hired a 15-year-old named Donald's. I'm not going to say his last name because he's 15.

Yeah. And he's a little, he lived. So I just don't. I don't know. I think that's fair. I don't even know if he's still alive at this point. I just don't really want to say his last name. Yeah.

You can look it up if you want. He was 15, so he probably is still alive now. Well, well, you don't know. That's true. He could die from like a normal thing. That's true. It is a pandemic. Exactly.

There was a 15-year-old named Donald. He hired him to do some jobs for him around the house. He often hired teen boys to do these kind of things, of course. And after he had him do some stuff, he lured him down to the basement of hell and fed him tons of alcohol, watched porn with him, and then sexually assaulted him like he did with a lot of boys. Hate that. This boy's father was in the JCs with Gacy. No. Yeah.

So that's brazen as fuck. That's how brazen he was. Yeah, he's brazen as fuck. he's getting overconfident with everything. His whole life, he's feeling like he's this big colonel and everything's fucking going his way, successful and all this. So he's starting to slip up because he's getting too confident. This is when he went fucking ham.

He just kept hiring boys doing the same thing to them over and over. He was just sexually assaulting boys all the time. Yeah. He convinced some of them that he was doing it as a scientific research program. And he said he was looking for participants and he would give them $50 for each session. What? Yeah, that was a thing that he would do. So he, oh, that's, wow.

So going back to Donald in March, 1968, so very, you know, less than a year after he had sexually assaulted Donald. Donald broke down. Of course, he was having issues. Yeah, like since the assault, he was having issues. he couldn't hold it together, but he was trying to just pretend it didn't happen. Donald. He finally broke down and told his father what Gacy had done. His father, who again, remember, was in the J.C.'s with Gacy, went to the police immediately.

Of course, good. Another 16-year-old victim of Gacy's also went to the police at the same time and had a story of his own. Gacy was arrested on sodomy charges and attempted assault of the 16-year-olds. He denied everything, of course. Yeah. He later, he also would use the excuse that it was consensual that these boys wanted to do these things. Like, homie, they're like 15 and 16. It's like, bro, you're still a pedophile.

A grown-ass man. Yeah. Gacy claimed this whole thing was just a setup because Donald's dad didn't want him to get elected president of the JCs. Oh, so he used politics in it. And it's like, dude, I don't think this guy is claiming that you sexually assaulted his 15-year-old son so that you don't get a stupid, worthless position in a community organization. Right. I'm fairly certain he's not doing that.

Good try, though. Like, no one cares as much as you do. So in order to shut this shit down, Gacy hired 18-year-old Russell Schroeder to take care of this for him. He paid Russell $300 to beat up Donald's. The kid? He warned him against showing up in court. Oh, my God. So he ended up, like, luring Donald into the woods, like, sprayed him with pepper spray and, like, punched him in the face.

Oh, my God. Donald got away and ran straight to the police. Russell Schroeder was picked up by the police and immediately admitted Gacy hired me to do this. Like, just was like, he did this. Why didn't Gacy spend a lot longer in jail than he did? Well, and isn't it funny? That's the same thing as, like, John Mark Byers from the West Memphis three. Remember when he had like two teenage boys like fight each other?

That's crazy. He's like a medley of serial killers. He is. He's like a like a stew, like a serial killer stew. Well, and if you think of it, we mentioned Dennis, fucking Dennis. He was a medley of serial killers too. He really was. They really are similar.

But it's funny because Dennis wanted to be. Yeah, John Wayne Gesey did it. And John Wayne Gacy was just like naturally. In fact, John Wayne Gacy came before most of them. I was just going to say he came before. Ted Bundy, did he? Yeah. Right before.

Yeah. So a lot of these probably took notes from him more than anything. So this other kid is like, you know, Gacy hired me to do this. Gacy was charged with conspiracy assault on top of everything. And by the time it was over, he pled guilty to sodomy and received a 10-year prison sentence. That's not just sodomy, though. Like, what the fuck? Oh, and it gets worse because that 10 years is not what he served.

Yeah, I was going to say he gets out way early, right? Yeah. And so Gacy was a model prisoner. Of course. You know, he earned his high school diploma finally. He got a job as a head cook in the kitchen. He took everything very like in stride. He didn't get in fights.

On December 27th, 1969, Gacy's father died of cirrhosis of the liver because he was an alcoholic. Alcohol will do that to you. The news hit Gacey. Like really bad. Right. He was, because again, no matter how shitty he was, aim to please. All he wanted was his approval. He felt like he had just gained it.

And then he probably felt like he just lost it. Got like ripped away. And then he dies. Right. The prison didn't let him attend his father's funeral, even though he was a model prisoner. Yeah. Now, while serving his time, Marilyn also divorced him, which like good for Marilyn.

Makes sense. Because he was a disdemeanor. disgusting rapist fucking pedophile pig. And she has two kids or three kids with him? Two kids with him. A girl and a boy. He said after this happened, he said that she and the kids were dead to him. Oh.

Like they did something wrong. Yeah. Like you're the disgusting pedophile rapist, but she did something wrong by getting you away from her and her children. Like, oh, okay. Because in his mind, she like walked away from him. So she was like some shit back. Apparently you're supposed to stand by your. Like, no, fuck you.

So they may not have allowed him to go to the funeral. They may not have allowed him that privilege. But for good behavior, he was rewarded. In October 1971, after completing just two years of his sentence, he was released and placed on probation for 12 months. Wow. So you get a 10-year sentence. You serve two years and you get a year probation. Yeah.

So you end up serving, like, somewhat three years. That's literally not half of your sentence. Absolutely ridiculous. So after he left prison, he went back to Chicago and moved in with his mother because now he's divorced from Maryland. He soon got a job. And I guess he had to move in with his mother as part of his probation. Oh, that makes sense because you need like to check in with someone. He needs like supervision.

He soon got a job working as a cook. And then he worked for a construction contractor. He worked really hard. He saved his money. and his mom helped him buy a home into plain Iowa. He moved in with her again because it was part of his probation, so she moved in with him to the new house. In early February 1971, he lured a teenage boy to his home and tried to rape him.

Oh, so he's reformed, huh? Yep, right away. The boy escaped and went to the police, and he was charged with sexual assault again, but the charges were dismissed because the kid didn't show up. up to court. Because he was probably fucking terrified. Exactly. And also, apparently, somehow this didn't get back to his probation officer. That's the, I'm like, what? Like, you would think that's a violation. Yeah. It is. Apparently not. Um, so this is when he started,

this is, this is when the killing started. Well, and he, because he realizes that he can fucking get away with whatever he wants to get away with. And I think he's seeing that he's missing something, that he's not getting the full experience that he wants to get out of just sexually assaulting and letting them go. Now, I was going to save this for this one little snippet that I'm going to say for the end of part two. But I want to say it in both parts because I think it's important for everybody to like hear it in both parts. Okay. Of the 33-ish known victims of John Wayne Gacy, there are still, to this day, six that are unidentified. Oh, wow.

They've been able to extract DNA to compare for those victims, but they need something to compare it to. So if you had a male relative or friend, go missing between 1970 and 1979 in the United States. If you are directly related to this missing person by blood relationship. And if you're willing to donate a DNA sample for direct comparison to the six unidentified victims, you can Contact the Cook County Sheriff's Department at 708-8-665-6244. Or you can fill out a form on the website that I will put in the show notes today. Because they're still actively trying to find out who these men were. That's so crazy.

Because it's so sad. It's so sad to me. That's horrible. These were like teenage boys. It's been over 40 years, like for some of these people. It's so sad. And it's, they think that these boys. are probably runaways. They were probably in trouble. That might be why their parents or family

don't know or don't. Right. Didn't care to know. But it's important to try to identify them. That's really sad. So this is where we go to his first kill. Great. On January 2nd, 1972, Timothy Jack McCoy, age 16, was sleeping at a bus station in Chicago. Okay. He was originally called Greyhound Bus Boy before they identified him because it took a long time to identify these boys. Gacy strolled up to him, acted like a concerned father who wanted to help. He offered him a ride and for him to stay at his home for the night and he said, you know what, I'll bring you back to the bus station tomorrow morning so you can catch your bus, but I just don't want you sleeping out here alone. And on the way home, he gave him a sightseeing tour of the city

was real sweet. And like earned this kid's trust. Yeah. Now, he let this kid stay over that night. And Gacy says that when he woke up in the morning, the kid was standing in the door with a knife. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm so fucking sure. Now, he said he felt threatened, so he attacked him and got the knife. But then he said he just straddled him and stabbed him to death with it. Yeah. I'm sure that's what happened. Which it's like, that's a pretty big overreaction. Like, you got the knife. You don't need to stab him now. Right. If you got the knife out of his hand, why would you stab him with it? Now, he says that it was only after he left the room and looked in the kitchen that he realized that he had made a terrible mistake. He said that the kid, when he went into the kitchen to clean up the knife, he noticed eggs on the counter and bacon.

And he said, the kid was making me breakfast. Oh, in two-place settings set up for breakfast. Oh my God. So the kid was making him a breakfast and had just absentmindedly walked into the doorway holding the kitchen knife to wake him up for breakfast. That just destroyed my heart. Isn't that awful? That's so, oh my God. Well, Gacy about this kill said that he was, quote, totally drained because he said it didn't just take like him stabbing him.

He also had like thrown him into a dresser. There was like a big, he beat the shit out of this kid and then stab him to death. He said he felt, quote, totally drained. But then he said that he listened to the, quote, gurgulations that came out of him. What? As he was gasping for air and dying. And he said during that, he experienced the best orgasm of his life. And he said that that's, quote, that's when I realized that death was the ultimate thrill.

I need to know what happens in somebody's brain that is so wrong that that's, That's what happens to you. The amount of chemical imbalance that has to be present for that to get you off. That's terrifying. Is so beyond my comprehension. Like, it's so beyond. It's like out of this stratosphere. Like, what the fuck?

Like, this is a 16-year-old boy. Who just made you? Like, I thought he was going to say it at least felt bad that he realized the kid was making him breakfast. Nope. He just was like, whoops. And then he was like, good thing I did it because I found out. Yeah. This is when I found out that this is it.

What a horrible start. Yeah. And Timothy was the first body put in the crawl space. Oh, Timothy. Now, on July 1st, 1972, Gacy got married again. Great. He married his high school friend, a girl named Carol Hoff. Poor Carol.

She had just got divorced out of a bad marriage. She had two daughters. moved right into Gacy's house. Carol was aware of Gacy's prison sentence. Oh, good. Was aware of what it was it for. I mean, I'm sure he made it seem less intense, but I mean, I'm going to go right ahead and say it.

I would never in my life put my children in a house with a pedophile or somebody who went to prison for sexual assault. Even if it's just, even if they convince you that it wasn't real, it's like if there's any fucking hindrance of a question there, nope. It's just not. Like, I'm not condemning all, you know, felons. I'm not condemning all people who've gone to jail at one point. No, but a pedophile.

Because rehabilitation is 100% a thing. Yeah. And not everything is a violent crime or anything like that. But a pedophile or a sexual assault, you know, a rapist. Right. No. And to knowingly put your children in that danger. That's just something I'm not into.

And it's like, when it comes to Carol, like I look at it like BTK's wife and children, I believe they didn't know. Like BTK's wife. I believe she didn't know because she didn't marry him knowing that he was something dark. Well, and he didn't kill, like, people at home. That's the thing. It's like he took it elsewhere and he became a totally different person at home. Right.

And also, they didn't go into their marriage with him being like, by the way, like, I'm a rapist. You know what I mean? Right. But Carol? I'm like, honey, you knew. I don't care what. You were well aware of what was happening. And it's like when she starts later smelling what is going on, because as we'll talk about in part two, that crawl space became a source of some malodorous situation down there.

I mean, obviously, it's like there's how many bodies down there. And if I'm starting to smell decomposition coming out of my fucking basement and my husband is hanging out with a lot of fucking teen. the fucking puzzle pieces together. And had gone to prison for being a fucking rapist of teenage boys, I'ma put those pieces together. Put your thinking cap on, Carol. Yeah. It's like you got at least question.

Which she eventually does. She does, but it's like, okay. Well, wait. Maybe don't put your kids in that situation. I don't know. Yeah. So only weeks after getting married to Carol, he was charged with sexual assault again. Wow.

Of a teenage boy, he pretended to be a cop. and forced this kid into his car, forced him to perform oral sex on him. Ew. The charges ended up being dropped. I'm not exactly sure why. But I think it was something as small as, you know, not showing up to court or something like that.

He keeps getting out of this shit. It's like you can't expect these people to show up. Like, when he's feeding, it's feeding his, like, how he thinks about himself, how he's this all powerful being that is getting away with this. Like, even when I get caught. get away with it. It's a superiority complex. So Gacy later stated that the second time he committed murder was around January 1974. Okay. This victim is still unidentified. This is one of the unidentified

ones. He was between the ages of 14 and 18 with brown hair and he was wearing a silver ring on his finger, his ring finger, which people think maybe point to him being married. Yeah. So he could be on closer to the 18 side. Gacy said he strangled this boy and then and threw him in his closet for a while. And then put him in the crawl space when he started to leak and smell. Okay. So that's coming out of your fucking closet and you don't notice it. Exactly.

That's the thing. This boy was found covered and wrapped in a ton of plastic bags. Gacy later said that fluid leaked out of his mouth and nose, the boy's mouth and nose while he was stored in the closet. and he said it stained his carpet and he said this is why he started stuffing like rags or the victim's own underwear in their mouths and throats to stop the leaking from coming out of their mouths.

Okay. Maybe you just don't kill people and you want to do with a stained carpet. I think a better solution is just to like, you know, not do that. Yeah. But, you know, who am I to judge? Yeah. Jesus. So this particular unidentified victim

was buried about 15 feet from the barbecue pit in Gacy's backyard. That's so fucking disgusting. Exactly. That's horrible. And it's, it's, um, that barbecue pit was very active. Yeah. Because Gacy, he had parties all the time, right?

Love to have parties. They had huge block parties, theme parties, like, and they would theme it out to like country western or, you know, like, just a decade parties, all this kind of craziness. So there were constantly people around his house while. there were bodies rotting in his house. Could you imagine being one of the people that was at a party and just like, you didn't even know? I can't imagine. I really can't imagine.

And I mean, his neighbors really loved him. They liked him. He was a community activist still. He was still active in the Democratic Party. He was having those crazy block parties. This is when he started dressing like his alter ego, Pogo the Clown. Okay. He would dress up as Pogo for the parties or for children's parties and events, and he would go to children's hospitals and cheer up kids dressed as Pogo.

That's like the most wild thing to me because it's like, one, well, because you're like, is he doing this to cheer kids up or does he get like some kind of weird, like sexual happiness from this? That's what makes me wonder because he wasn't a professional clown. Like he didn't go to, because there are clown college is a thing. You get trained to be a professional clown because I know it looks like it's like you can just slap. makeup on you and be like, duh. No, it's a lot. It's like, it's an actual thing, like talent. My stepdad, my old stepdad's cousins met in Clom College. I love that. Yeah, they were adorable. And, well, and it's like it really is because one, you need to learn what's, kids are very strange when it comes to what sets them off and what doesn't. Yeah. I mean, you can do something that

you think is great. The kids will fucking be traumatized forever. It's like, so you need to learn, you're dealing with other people's kids all the time. You need to learn how to not ever. scare a kid. And he wasn't a professional clown. Professional clowns are taught, for example, that sharply painted edges in clown makeup will scare kids. Like innately, that sharp points in a makeup will make a kid not trust you. That's just something about child psychology.

So that's why clowns are taught to paint in rounded, soft edges and make it appear friendlier. Everything should be rounded off. There should not be sharp edges to your clown makeup. And Gacy had sharp, sharp edges. And all of his mouth was all sharp and freaky. His eye makeup was sharp and at points. So it's interesting to me that like he went that route because you think he'd, he would innately be able to look at that and be like, that's scary. Right. Because it looks scary. Yeah. Oh, it looks fucking terrifying. Yeah, but if he rounded the makeup off, he would see this is a friendlier face, kids will like this more. Maybe you didn't have purpose. He was a sick bastard. Can you imagine being a kid that was like in the hospital or had a birthday party?

And had Pogo the clown visit you? Can you imagine today? No. Being sitting there being like, the clown at my fifth birthday party was John fucking Wayne Gasey. That's a fun fucking icebreaker. I'll tell you that much. Two truths and a lie, baby. That is the first thing I would say to everyone I ever met. Hi, I'm Elena. And John Wayne Gacy was the clown at my fifth birthday party. How are you? That would make me feel violated beyond violated. I don't.

Maybe I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't like that. Yeah, I would not like it. But he's really, I mean, again, he's, even though he's getting caught in little ways, he's still cruising and he's still doing his thing. He's still a member of, you know, the community. He has people loving him, people trusting him, people wanting to party with him. He's part of the Democratic Party. He's doing his jobs.

He's really making shit happen. In that same year in 1974, he left his construction job and started his own contracting business called Painting, Decorating, and Maintenance, or PDM Contractors, Inc. This is when he was like, this is another opportunity to get what I want. Because now he's just going to hire teen boys.

Right. And he says, his claim is, I can hire these team boys for way less money. And they'll do way more work. Do you think that he took the note from the guy that used to take him on jobs to do this? I wonder if it's connected in some psychological way. Yeah. Maybe he didn't even realize that he was doing it.

Yeah, it could have been subconscious, kind of like the crawl space thing where his dad's lair was the basement that nobody was allowed to go into. And he put all his victims in his garage and in his crawl space where it was like his domains. Criminal psychology is so, like, cool to look at. It's fascinating. Fascinating, yeah. Yeah, I want to go more into it in part two for sure. But we all know he was hiring these team boys for one reason. Right.

He would even use the hiring process to lure boys in and assault them. And soon these assaults were almost always leading to a long and torturous death for these team boys. I'm going to stop at this point for part two because part two we're going to go into the real meat of the situation when he really goes on a bender he calls some of these years the next year is his cruising years

oh yeah he's just cruising around town looking for horrible things to do we will get into how he was caught in the crazy story of like he was under surveillance for a ton of time and he was just not scared at all. He had 33 bodies underneath his house and there were two cops sitting outside of his house at all times and he didn't give a fuck. Which is so wild.

But it's like I feel like that speaks to how maybe unhinged he was becoming. Oh yeah. He was totally unhinged. He was beyond control when it came to his desires and his compulsions. We hate to see it. So that is part one of John Wayne Gaines. Casey and part two is going to get a lot rougher, I think. So hang on tight. Good job, dude. This was a good part one. Yeah. Well, if you want to head on over to our

Instagram and cast your guesses for who next week's guess will be. Go ahead and do that at. At morbid podcast. You can follow us on Twitter. At a morbid podcast. You can send us a Gmail with your listener tail or whatever else you want to do. Morbid Podcast. You can check out our website. All of our tour dates are listed there. Morbidpodcast.com. You can follow us on Spotify, where you can listen to us for free, whether or not you have a Spotify premium, and all you have to do is type in Morbid A True Crime Podcast. Do it. And you can also donate to the Patreon if you want to hear your name called. Patreon.com

slash morbid podcast. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you... Keep it weird. But not so weird that you're a mean clown and you make pointy makeup because that's not nice. Yeah. Pointy makeup is not nice. It's rude.

I wear pointing makeup all the time. I wear pointy makeup all the time. I'll love shop. I'll kill a man. Bye. Bye.