Morbid - Lee Roy Martin: The Gaffney Strangler

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

In the winter of 1968, reporter Bill Gibbons got an anonymous call from a man who wanted to confess to three murders in the small town of Gaffney, South Carolina. Gibbons thought the call was a prank, but he took it to the sheriff and the two men travel out to the first of three locations where the caller claimed to have left the bodies. After searching casually through the underbrush for a short time, the men discover the nude body of twenty-year-old Nancy Carol Paris, who’d been strangled to death. At the second location, they discovered the body of fourteen-year-old Tina Rhinehart, who appeared to have been killed in the same manner as Paris. Investigators soon learned that the third location the caller gave was where police had discovered the body of Annie Dedmond six months earlier.In the days that followed, the “Gaffney Strangler,” as the press would come to call him, would contact Gibbons several more times, demanding that he print stories about the murders in the newspaper. He also insisted that Gibbons and the sheriff’s department needed to do something about the fact that Annie Dedmond’s husband, Roger, was sitting in jail for Annie’s murder. Then, a week later, the strangler struck again, this time kidnapping fifteen-year-old Opal Buckson in broad daylight, throwing her in the trunk of his car while her sister watched helplessly. Opal’s body would be discovered a week later, dead like the others.A few days after the discovery of Opal’s body, police arrested Lee Roy Martin, a local mill worker and father of three who’d been born and raised in Gaffney. The arrest shocked the local residents and left everyone wondering, in a town as small as Gaffney, how could they have lived their entire lives with a violent psychopath and never known it?Thank you to the incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesCharlotte Observer. 1972. "About Roger Dedmond, convicted of killing his wife." Charlotte Observer, November 7: 30.2015. A Crime to Remember. Directed by Christine Connor. Performed by Christine Connor.Dalton, Robert, and Craig Peters. 2009. Gaffney Strangler terrorized town 40 years ago, murdering 4 women. July 5. Accessed July 29, 2024. https://www.goupstate.com/story/news/2009/07/05/gaffney-strangler-terrorized-town-40-years-ago-murdering-4-women/29885910007/.Fuller, Bill, and Jack Horan. 1968. "Dog only murder witness?" Charlotte Observer, February 10: 1.Gaffney Ledger. 1968. "Attorneys ask court transcript of trial." Gaffney Ledger, February 21: 1.—. 1968. "Officers search well; find Opal's clothing." Gaffney Ledger, February 28: 1.Howe, Claudia. 1968. "Grim mystery, violent deaths engulf Gaffney." Charlotte Observer, February 14: 10.Jones, Mark R. 2007. Palmetto Predators: Monsters Among Us. Charleston, SC: The History Press.Martin, Tommy. 1988. "Lives of golf pro, texile worker crossed paths on February 13, 1968." Gaffney Ledger, February 5: 4.—. 1968. "Martin sentenced to life in prison." Gaffney Ledger, September 19: 1.McCuen, Sam E. 1968. "Crank telephone calls plague Gaffney police." The State, February 16: 19.—. 1968. "Gaffney girl is kidnapped." The State, February 14: 1.—. 1968. "Mother convinced her son innocent." The State, February 9: 1.Skipp, Catherine. 2009. "Gaffney, S.C. haunted by murderous memories ." Newsweek, July 8.The Gaffney Ledger. 1968. "Martin is charged in 3 stranglings." Gaffney Ledger, February 19: 1.The State. 1968. "2 bodies found after phone call." The State, February 9: 1.—. 1968. "Suspect attempts suicide." The State, February 21: 15.Truluck, Jack. 1968. "In-laws believe Dedmond is guilty." Gaffney Ledger, February 21: 1.United Press International. 1968. "Lee Roy Martin indicted in 4 Gaffney stranglings." Greenville News, May 21: 1. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. This one is super duper morbid. Yeah. We wanted to open up with talking about Harmony Montgomery, who I'm sure a lot of you have seen on the news recently or on social media. I want to give a quick content warning before getting into this that this is going to contain a lot of child abuse. Yeah, the actual, the episode is not going to be fully about this case. We're just, just going to talk about it briefly. Yeah, yeah. We wanted to touch upon it.

Just like the opener. Yeah, because we think it's important to talk about. But guys, one, I feel like we're seeing a lot of this shit happening with little kids lately. I know it happens all the time, but lately it just, I don't know if it just feels this way because we're all in, you know, quarantine and shit and it's just being shoved down our throats. But what the fuck are people doing having, like, what is going on? I'm sorry. I can't. I can't understand this. I can't understand this. I can't wrap my brain around it.

There's no justification for this. There's no feel bad for these people. No. Exactly. It's very, you know, and there's people in the world who would do anything to have a child and give them the world. That you are knocking around with you big man fists, hitting a five-year-old little girl in the face, you piece of shit. This guy, my blood pressure with this case, I can't. It's unreal. So if you haven't heard anything about that. this. Harmony has been missing since some time in 2019. That's the other thing. Like, sometime in 2019. We hear these cases too well, like that this happens, that people like, oh yeah, like no one's seen this five-year-old child in two years. And suddenly it's being, it's like, fuck all of you. Like, are you all going to sit there and be like, yeah, weird. How does a child just go missing for two years and nobody does dick all about it? My children go in the playroom for too long and I'm like, is everything all right?

right? Where are you guys? What? Oh my God, this is so horrific. So Harmony was living with her father Adam Montgomery. And let's put a quick, giant quotation marks around father, because that is not what he is. He's a biological life giver, I suppose, is what we can call him. Kind of. So she had been living with her father because her mother had lost custody around July 2018 due to various reasons. and she was the one to report Harmony missing. She called the police and said, and she called them on November 18th and said that she hadn't seen Harmony in over six months.

So when they finally narrowed down that timeline, she hadn't seen her daughter since a FaceTime call on Easter of 2019. She had last talked to her daughter via FaceTime while she was at her quote-unquote father's house and she said that harmony seemed frightened. No, honestly, this one, I have like a lump in my throat for this one. I don't, because you have kids the same age and she's the sweetest little, like, angel, like looking at her picture.

And what kills me is she had no one around her. No, it didn't see that she had any adult in that house that she was living in that she could look to for safety. It's just like, oh, it's like killing me. Absolutely horrific. Her uncle had contacted police in the past. and reported. It sounds like he's the only one that was trying to do stuff. He was trying to. I feel bad. It seems like he was the one who was at least trying to get this kid away from these

fucking monsters. Absolutely because there was an affidavit, and all of this information is from an article on CNN, by the way. But the affidavit states that Montgomery's uncle recalled to police other forms of, quote, abusive discipline against Harmony. This is where the content warning is really going to come into full effect, including her being spitz. banked hard on the butt, being forced to stand in a corner for hours, and being ordered by her father to scrub a toilet with her toothbrush. Listen, you're a piece of fucking shit guy. This is a five-year-old little girl.

A five-year-old little girl. And what prompted her uncle to call the police was that he saw Harmony in July of 2019 with a black eye and her father had struck her in the face as a quote unquote form of discipline. Yeah, literally, I, I wish that this, I'm not even calling him a man, this lower life form subhuman little blotch of sludge on the bottom of someone's ass. I hope he has the day he deserves. Yeah, same. So nobody knows exactly where Harmony is because her, stepmother, quote unquote, told the police that she last saw Harmony, quote,

around November or December 2019. Couldn't narrow it down. Oh, I hate all of these people. I'm like so angry about this case. This child had no chance. Yeah, so around November or December, couldn't be sure, that Adam told her he was driving her back to her mother in Massachusetts, and she hadn't seen her since.

The stepmother has also been arrested because she didn't notify anybody that Harmony was no longer in the household and she was still continuing to use her for welfare purposes. Yeah, so she was arrested for welfare fraud. Yeah, and. Which doesn't sound shady at all that your child has been missing for two years and you're still claiming the money for her. No. So luckily Adam Montgomery has been arrested.

Very interested to see what comes out of this all. He has been ordered to have no contact with Harmony's biological mother or his wife, who is Harmonie's quote unquote, stepmother. Step monster. Which is very interesting to me. I'm like, you can't talk to them because they don't want you to get your story straight is what I'm thinking. Yeah, I mean, it's quite obvious that no matter what happened here, nobody knows where harmony is.

I mean, I think we can all read between the lines here. No matter what, this piece of shit punched his five-year-old child who was partially blind in the face and gave her a black eye. Absolutely. And also was seemingly proud telling the uncle there that he would punting. her with like prison punishments at five years old. He made her scrub a toilet with her own toothbrush. Stand in the corner for hours. For hours. You make your child stand in a corner for hours. You're a monster. No. No. Like do you stand for hours? No. No. You don't. She's a loser. She was five. She was five. Oh, I, this case just really went up my ass. And it's like that child is so beautiful, had her whole life in

front of her. And she deserved the world. And you know what it is that is killing me with these cases? When I see these, I was saying it to Ash, I keep thinking, and I'm totally good, I feel like I'm going to cry. I keep thinking how lonely these poor children are that they are in that house with just monsters. Like, it makes me want to like go get the kids from school and just like snuggle them all day and be like, don't worry about it. I love you. Because it's like, I was lucky enough. And I'm so sorry if you were not lucky enough because I this is like killing me that people grew up this way. Growing up in a house where I got to grow up in a house where I felt safe and where my parents were my source of comfort and they were my safety and I could go to them for anything.

I know you're going to make me cry. I know, I just can't help it. It's like I just think of how sad and lonely these poor little babies are that they have no one. Like there's never a time they go to sleep that they feel safe and they feel like, oh, I want to tell my mom about this. I want to tell my dad about this. They're just scared. They're scared of their mom and dad. Because their mom and dad hurt them. And lonely. It just, oh, it hurts my heart. Like, these are really starting to get to me. She deserved so much better. I don't understand how nobody intervened. Yeah. It just, that's the same. I don't understand how somebody saw her with a black eye and she

wasn't immediately removed from them. And I don't understand how, like, the, the departments that are working these, how did this happen? Someone's got to answer for this. Somebody tried to answer. And that's what's killing me. It's like someone answer for this. The DHS communications director Jake Leon said, we can confirm that as soon as the state learned Harmony was no longer with her caregiver, immediate steps were taken and an investigation was initiated. Finding Harmony remains our top priority. Reward money for information about Harmony has grown to $60,000 and anyone with information about her disappearance. So if you know anything about where this baby is, like she didn't.

we can all assume what happened. Yeah. I mean, we can hope for the best. We can hope for the best, but she deserves to be found and placed with an amazing family who's going to love on her and doad on her or at the very least to be laid to rest in like a beautiful place. So if you have any information, call 603-203-6060. You can also text that number. Again, it's 603-203-60-60.

Oh, sorry. And hug your kids. No, you have kids. No, I just really, like it's just, and she, and she was five. And I just can't get her picture out of my head. Like she's, yeah, now she would be seven. That's why in everything, you'll see she's seven. But when all this was going down, when she was punched in the face, she was five.

So that asshole that you see in the pictures punched a five-year-old little girl in the face, his own child. He will absolutely get his. I'm a huge, huge believer in karma. And if you can do that, you can do a lot of things. That's all I'll say. That's what you're capable of. He also was said to have like, he said he saw her recently and then stopped answering questions. Oh yeah.

I've seen my kids recently too. Yeah, same. And they said he, like, it didn't elicit any emotional response from him whatsoever. Because he's a, because you can't have regular emotions if you're punching your own five-year-old child in the face. You can't be a real human being. How do you do? You do it. I don't know how you punch anybody.

Grown adults can't take a punch. I wouldn't want to take a punch. and he's punching a five-year-old child who looks to him for everything. And she was also partially blind. Partially blind. And she has the cutest little glasses. Oh, God, I know. I can't even.

Every time I look at her, I get a lump in my throat. So seriously, if you know anything, anything at all, call that number. And just let's get harmony to a new home. Yeah. And let's just love your children. And like you were saying in the beginning, it just makes me so sad because I remember when you were going through IVF. And when you were going through IVF, it seems. deemed then that these cases were popping up. And I just remember exactly how much it killed you. And I can't

imagine like a woman right now struggling with IVF watching this news story. And she would do anything to have a baby and love that baby and give it the best possible life. And then people do this. You would, you would see these. Like I would see these and just be like, I'll take her. Yeah. Give it to me. Like I'll take her. Or you think about like foster parents that open their homes to these children. like they would take them they would take these kids exactly it's so that's a horrible case but if again if you have any information we'll put all the information in the show notes again too and you know just rewind and listen to what ash said about the number and all that but I really hope I hope I hope I hope just like the Summer Wells case I keep hoping that something good will come out of it but it's it's hard

to hope with cases like that it really is On to the next really sad thing. I was going to say totally switching gears. This one is also going to be a doozy. This one is, if you have seen the title, about Phil Hartman. Have you heard of them? Have you heard of them? This case was like so much fun to research like throughout like Phil's life.

Yeah. Because I didn't, I don't like I didn't know a lot about the history of S&L or anything like that. and I'm marrying somebody that is fucking obsessed with all things comedy. Like Drew loves comedians. He loves S&L, like all the history of it. He has all these books. He was whipping out like binders full of everybody's sketches dating back like Gilder Radder. He's like, you got to watch this one.

This is why I love because John is when we first started dating. He had like all these old SNL DVDs. Oh, I didn't even know that. Oh yeah. He has a ton of them. Oh my God. I didn't know that. Yeah.

He's a huge SNL head too. I knew that. I feel like Drew and him are one. They connect on that level. But yeah, Drew was so stoked that I was doing this. And I think this is actually going to come out on his birthday. It's so perfect. So HBD, Bib. There you go. All right. So let's get into it. I read two great books about this case. The first one was amazing. It's called You Might Remember Me, The Life and Times of Phil Hartman. And that was written by Mike Thomas. You got to go get it. You can get it on Kindle. You can get a paperback. You can get it anywhere. You got to do it. So good. And then I also read one of Drew's books, Live from New York, the complete uncensored history of Saturday Night Live, as told by its stars, writers, and guests. And that book was written by James Andrew Miller and Tom Shales. So it's like full of like different quotes. It's like every possible S&L skit you could ever think of, like, all of them. I love that. I was just looking for the Phil Hartman stuff, but there are so much good stuff in there. I know. That just sounds like a good book. Yeah. Across the board. It is. It's a nice coffee table book, too.

But with that, this is going to be a long one. So let's get into it. I'm ready. All right. So Phil Hartman, arguably, was one of the most talented people to work on SNL. But there's like a lot that people don't necessarily know about him. So he was actually born in 1948 in Brantford, Ontario, Canada to parents Rupert and Doris Hartman. His birthday is September 24th, which makes him a Libra. And according to astrology.com, Libras, not all of them, but like a generalization there, excel in all issues. concerning history, deep research, and analysis. They are to help others find their way towards togetherness and love. Which I was like, Phil Hartman did that. I think we talked about, it's funny, because I think, didn't we talk about like the bad

part of Libras of the last episode you did, I think? Was Pam a Libra? I feel like, I feel like it was, but maybe I'm lying. I don't know, I don't remember. Either way, we were like, this is the bad part. Yeah, this is the good part about Libras. We all have it. Exactly.

I just look at Gemini's and Capric. going to say look at our zodiac signs but knowing what i know now about phil like it sounds pretty spot on to me because throughout his life phil was really concerned with making other people happy he grew up in a family with eight children he was one of eight so it was definitely like a balancing game of taking in other people's moods and adapting to the people around him he got to be pretty good at that he was smack dab in the middle he was born fourth in the family he had two brothers john and paul and five sisters nancy martha mary Jane and Sarah. Whoa.

Yes. All the kids. All the kids. Doris also ran a hair salon out of the family house. A her salon. A her salon. And she painted in whatever spare time she had. Oh, okay.

I have no idea how she had any spare time. Just painting too. But she would decorate the hair salon with her paintings and she'd sell them for extra cash. Oh, I love that. Entrepreneur. Yeah. Phil later said of his mom, quote, my mother was a real entrepreneur. She could turn a garbage.

Yeah. She could turn a garbage can into art. People in our family were always real diligent hard workers. They knew the meaning of good work ethic. So because of her just like overfilled plate, the older girls in the family, Nancy and Martha specifically, would be the ones who acted as mother figures to the younger kids. So growing up, Phil kind of like felt like he kind of like lacked the attention that he was craving. Yeah. Because makes sense.

Number one, you're a middle child. So like, hello. So there it is. And then number two, there's eight kids. But he wasn't the kind of kid who was going to, like, go and get that attention looking for trouble. Instead, he just slowly started to realize that he was really good at impressions. He specifically loved to do John Wayne.

Like, he could do any John Wayne impression. He was so freaking good. Oh, my God. It was so funny. So good. I didn't know much about him and then diving into this. I was like, how did I, like, I wish that I had experienced all of this. How did I miss the era?

Probably because it was before you were born. Probably. probably because I was two when Phil died. Wow. Yeah. But he could get a laugh out of people and that was what he absolutely loved to do. He would stay up at night doing different impressions for his brothers. They like shared a room together and they would end up just laughing so hard that their

dad would come in and be like, you guys got to stop. Like you got to quiet down. It's time for bed. That's literally what I do to the girls every night. But like it just goes to like show like that was the trouble they were getting in of just like making each other laugh too late. Yeah, absolutely. Like staying up too late.

But when Phil was 10, the family moved to the United States. They first stayed in Maine. Then they made their way to Connecticut. And eventually they ended up in California. So Phil was in high school by that point. And he went to Westchester High. He was actually said to be friends with one squeaky Frome, who also went to Westchester. Oh, who's that?

Yeah, just, you know, squeakles? I've never heard of that. Yeah. Can you believe that? Wow. I was like, what a connection. Imagine being like, yeah. Yeah.

We hung out. Yeah. They were like, mean squeaks. We hung out. He was like the kind of guy though that was friends with everybody. So he's like acquaintances. So I don't think they were necessarily like best friends. I saw in some sources that they dated, but I kind of felt like that was like clickbait to be like.

That would be wild. Yeah, I'm not sure about that. That would truly be wild. Because it wasn't in every source. Some of them were like they were acquaintances. Others were like they had a full blown relationship. And I'm like, which one was it? Probably somewhere in the middle.

I was going to say probably somewhere in between. Exactly. That's where the truth was. Exactly. But he was friends with everybody. He fit into every group. He had learned to surf when he was 13 and he was really good at it. So he could fit in with that crowd.

And he also signed up to take drama classes. So he fit over there too. Like, duh. Basically, anybody he could make laugh ended up being a friend of his to some degree. And he could make everybody laugh. So he was friends with all of them. Yeah. And by the time he made it to graduation, naturally he was voted class clown.

Shocking. Crazy. So after high school, he enrolled in. Santa Monica City College with his best friend Sparky. And it was there that he would also become friends with famous actor, Wink Roberts. Wink Roberts. What a cool name. You have to be a famous actor. You have no choice. That might be a stage name, I assume. Props. Now, eventually Sparky got drafted to serve in Vietnam, but he and Phil stayed connected by writing letters back and forth with each other. And during that time, Phil became better friends with Wink. And the two of them would like go on ski trips

together and just like do the damn thing in college just do the damn thing you know yeah just like vibe yeah and on one of their ski trips which it was to mammoth mountain they decided to go into like these natural hot springs which i saw pictures of them and i was like i would like to go please i would like to do that any natural like spring or natural pool you're just like i gotta go it just looks like so tranquil we went to one on our honeymoon and aruba the natural pool oh yeah and they're just like there's something else i want to go to like a hot spring because it's like a hot tub yeah a natural hot tub. It's like a spa. Yeah. Like they were like, relax. It's mother nature. Hi. Hi, Mama. It's me. But why we just went there. I don't know. But Phil went there too. He did with

wink. He loved it. He had a great time. So I guess there was a ton of fog that night because hot springs. And wink remembered that he and Phil were like joking around about the different impressions that Phil could do while they were soaking in the natural springs. Hell yeah. And Phil started doing his rendition of John Lennon short story, Eric Herbal, I think is how you say it. And Wink said that as he got more and more into it, that the conversations around them started to slow down. And then at some point, they just completely stopped. And Wink was like, I'm pretty sure everybody's listening to us right now.

I was just going to say that they had a full, like, completely connected audience in a hot spring. They literally did. Everyone had turned their attention to Wink could fill at that point. And they couldn't even see them, but everybody was just paying attention to where the voice was coming from. And that quick impression that Phil had started with turned into a two-hour set where he did impressions of all his favorite comedians and everybody was like hanging on his last word. I love that. And at the end of it, Wink Roberts said that he announced to the crowd and he said it must have been at least 100 people. Ladies and gentlemen, that was Mr. Phil Hartman and

someday he's going to be a big star. Remember this night. I want everyone to picture being in that hot springs that night and being like, ha ha, that's funny. And then later being like, I literally saw his first set. Like, imagine how many times that story was told at parties. Oh, yeah. I would tell everyone I knew. Like, I'd be like, oh shit, have you ever heard of Phil Hartman? Yeah. I want to hear this wild anecdote of the time that I went to fucking mammoth hot springs. I saw his first real live set in hot springs in mammoth. Thank you. So when he wasn't hanging out with Wink or his other pals from school, Phil was hanging out a lot with his brother John. John had worked at WME, aka William Morris and Devers previously, and he repped people like Buffalo Springfield, Sunny and Cher. I don't know if you've heard of him. No. Yeah,

that's famous. Seems like Z listeners, right? You know, yeah, yeah, no. I'm totally kidding. No, no. But in the late 60s, John left WME to open up a music venue with his friend Skip Taylor and Gary E.cert, I think is how you say it. I tried desperately to look this up and I couldn't figure it out. Yeah, I've never heard that name, but sure. Ecert feels good. It does. It feels nice to me. And he was actually Gary Ecert, the future founder of the LA International Film Festival. Oh, okay. Big deal. A big deal, I would say. Big deal. So together the three of them wanted to open up their own music venue. I love that we're like, never heard of them. Yeah, I know. I'm like, I'm a horrible person.

But they named their venue kaleidoscope, which is just perfect. Makes sense. Yes. And because they had showbiz connections, the club was a hit. There were all kinds of performers who did shows there, the doors, Jefferson Airplane, like, just to name a few. Yeah, you know. And Phil and his friends would go hang out at kaleidoscope and it was there that he met a band called The Rockin' Foo. The Rockin'Foo. The Rockin'Foo? Or The Foo for short. Personally, I like the full Rockin'Foo. The Rockin' Foo. Hello, we are the Rockin' Foo. Yeah, that's it. That's what you need. Hell yeah. They became pretty big, the rock and foo. Did they become the foo fighters? Um, I, I wondered that myself. Were they a rival band? The foo fighters were angry, so they were like,

we're the foo fighters. Maybe. I don't know. Did I just open something up? Maybe. Ask Dave girl. Probably not. I have no idea. Uh, but the foo was being managed by Phil's brother John. So from time to time, Phil would go along with them to shows and just like kind of help them out if they needed it. Yeah. And at the time, he was actually planning on transferring to the university. of Hawaii, even though he hadn't heard yet whether he was going or like, or if he had gotten in, he had sold all of his things and he was like, no, I'm going. Like, I'm heading out there. Getting out of here. But life had other plans for Phil because John asked him if he would stay and continue to help him out with the foo. He was like, you can be like an official equipment manager

because the foo was starting to gain traction and became more popular. So he was going to need help on their different tours. But also, he just didn't want his brother to leave. He was like, I did not want him to go to Hawaii. Yeah, we can't just let the rock and foo go by the way, said. Oh, of course not. No. But John and Phil had gotten really close over the years, and by then, Phil had actually been living with John and the foo. And John later said that he felt this, like, huge sense of loss when he thought that Phil was going to move to Hawaii. That's what I felt when I thought you were leaving. Direct quote from my notes, the story kind of reminds me of when I was going to move to New York and high school, and we had that big going away party, and Elena cried,

and I was sad and I decided to stay. Siblinghood is so precious. I'm dying. That's what I wrote down. Because I literally, like that whole thing, Ash was going to be moving to live with their dad. Yep. And like, totally leaving the state. And I was trying to act very together.

And I was like, you know what? If she's made this decision, I can't make her feel bad about it. And you didn't. And at the party, I was like, I'm going to hold it together. And I got home with John to our apartment. And I lost. And John was like. And did you hear about a song on the way home that was really sad?

I don't even. I just know I lost it. Cool. Lost it, lost it, lost it. And John, he will to this day say, because he like never sees me cry. And he was like, I did not know what to do because he was like all of a sudden. And he was like, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out.

She can live with us. Like, we're going to make this happen. We're going to make her stay. It was so funny because I didn't even know, like I knew you were sad, obviously, but I didn't know that that had happened. And I just, that night, I remember being like, I don't know if this is the right decision. And then I totally like plan flipped over on its head and I stayed. And then I found that out.

I was like, maybe we had some kind of bond and you like telepathyed me not to go. I was like, don't do it. But you didn't ask me to go manage a tour with you. So like, that was kind of rude. Yeah, that's true. I wish you had done that. Sorry about that. That's okay.

I'll do it next time. Okay. So yeah, John felt the same as you. And he was like, oh, I have this foo thing. I can kind of use that to make Phil stay. I can use the foo. I can use the foo. You can always use the foo.

So Phil was like, hell yeah, brother. That sounds fucking awesome. brother, literally. So he stayed and he signed on as an equipment manager. And that ended up being one of the best decisions that he ever made. He had so much fun touring around California with the band. And he got to live out in his own little cabana. Did I say that right?

Cabana. Cabana. Cabana. Cabana. He got to live in his own little cabana guest house on John's property in Malibu. He was just like live in like the bachelor dream at like 20 years old. Yeah. You wouldn't want to do that at 20 years old. Vibing. And there was all kinds of crazy experiences to be had at the time and like rock and roll memories to make.

Yeah, just rock and roll, man. Like the time that he literally held a place, held a drum in place for Jimmy Hendricks at a big music festival. Yeah, I remember that. I remember my first time doing that too. You never forget the first time you help on Jimmy Hendricks. You don't. I guess the foo was playing at this big festival that like Jimmy Hendricks and like Janice Joplin and like similar people were at. Jeez.

And I guess Jimmy just hopped up on stage and started to jam with the foo with this like drum. Yeah, he did. And every time he hit it, the drum would move. So Phil was like, well, I am the equipment manager. Yeah, you got to hold that drum. So he yeated himself onto the stage and he just held the drum in place for Jimmy. Heeded himself. Equipment manager to the rescue.

Amazing. There were also like tons of girls in and out of the house and like all kinds of psychedelic drugs that the world had to offer. But as far as drugs went, Phil liked to smoke pot and that was pretty much it. He wasn't really into the drug scene. And those around him said he needed to be in control, which is like, you're not going to enjoy acid if you want to be in control. Definitely not. It just wasn't his style.

That's why I was, I mean, there was several reasons why I was never into drugs. But one of the main reasons was I was, I'm a very, I don't know if you guys have noticed this after almost four years, but I'm a very big control freak. And that's exactly how I feel. I'm like, I just can't be out of control. Yeah. It would freak me out. They said like, because later on, like, Phil would get like a boat.

he'd have like a plane and everything and he always needed to be in control in those situations. Like he was like, I need to control my fate. So they were like, yeah, he wasn't really super into drugs. He wasn't super into that. He would just roll up a doobie and start talking about the world with people. Heck yes. Because he had a lot of like different ideas about different spirituality and what might happen once we're not here anymore. He honestly sounds like the kind of guy that you would want in the rotation.

Yeah. I was texting me. I'm really sorry. It's his part. They don't yell at him. So as far as girls went, Phil was a natural. He was like this handsome surfer dude who had washboard abs at the time. And he was funny.

Yeah, I mean, that's complete package. Like talk about a win, win, win. So he met some cool chicks back at his place with John and the foo. He even hooked up with a Playboy Bunny, which he had to tell Sparky about. So Sparky's over in Vietnam. And they're continuing to write letters back and forth. And he's like, guy, I got to tell you about this. I got to tell you.

him all about it. But he had never met anyone like the girl that he met while he was hanging out on a beach in 1968. Her name was Gretchen Lewis and when he laid eyes on her, she was walking her dog, a poodle named noodle. A poodle named noodle. A poodle named noodle. So, Gretchen is beautiful and hilarious, obviously. That's amazing. So he lays eyes on her. She's walking poodle noodle in one way or another. Phil gets her attention and the two of them just get to talking. They literally talk to the entire rest of that day and then they made plans to see each other the very next day.

So after that, they were hooked on one another. They had this like fiery relationship in a good kind of way. Gretchen and Phil both told their buddies like what amazing sex they had with each other and how they just felt so connected to each other like not only physically but emotionally and spiritually. I love that. Gretchen felt as though Phil just like got who she was and vice versa. Yeah.

So after they got married, they moved in together, started adulting, which we all know is like a crazy wake-up call. Oh, yeah. They had no money just enough to pay their rent. So Phil started working at this advertisement agency called Pharrell Bergman. He fucking hated it there, and he only worked there for a little while just to make ends meet. He was like, whatever. So even though they were super happy together in the beginning of the marriage, toward the end,

there was a lot of stressors. But the biggest factor and betrayal, to be honest, was that Gretchen's, And she started hanging out with this other guy that she met at work. And remember, they're married. So this guy was some kind of like big shot businessman. And she said she just got wrapped up in the excitement of it all. Their relationship or she called it a flirtation. It never became physical.

But Phil didn't care. It affected their marriage in a huge way once she told him. And honestly, neither of them could get past it. So they went their separate ways. They didn't have like a big fight or anything like that. And they were just like, you know what? It was a good ride while it lasted. Yeah.

It's just not working. I don't think we're meant to be together. Yeah. So they officially divorced in March of 1972. And they stayed in touch here and there over the years. And Gretchen said, as far as she was concerned throughout all his years of fame and fortune, Phil never changed. And she meant it in a good way. Yeah.

Like, he stayed who he was. Yeah. But Mike Rogers, who was Phil's biographer, said of his love life, quote, his relationships would always start out very intensely, intense, emotionality, sexuality, and then they would inevitably peter out. I mean, with Phil, he was always on the hunt for the next. knew the fresh and he had an artist's idea for beauty so we all know people like that too absolutely that they just can't get past that initial like crazy part of the relationship and then when it kind of

gets like slows down it becomes boring and it becomes irritating to them and I think that's like the word that you use boring it was like Phil kind of like once they were all settled and everything like I feel like his partners felt like he was boring them or like he like didn't give them enough Which I'm like, how are you bored by Phil Hartman? I know. Sometimes on the stage is different. Yeah, I was going to say behind closed doors. You never know.

I have no idea. So that's how he was after the divorce. He was on the hunt for the new, the fresh, the sexy. And not only in regards to his love life. He needed another job, but he did not want to go back to Farrell Bergman advertisement. He was like, that was not fun while it lasted. So it would just so happen that brother John would have another offer for Phil. because right around that time, John and his business partner Harlan Goodman were opening up their own management offices together.

They already had a ton of clients that they were working with and pretty much all of these clients were working on new albums that they would eventually need cover art for. So Phil had actually gone back to school while he was married to Gretchen for graphic design. Oh, I didn't even know that. He had dropped out, but it was something that he'd always been good at, like even in his younger years. When he was in high school, he would do like doodles on people's notebooks and stuff for them, like just like a Phil Hartman original, which also imagine if you still had that notebook. Or you threw it out and you were like, damn it. Motherfucker.

Spring cleaning got me. Seriously. Or he and Sparky used to play this game together called Squiggles where Sparky would draw like a random line and then Phil would turn it into like some crazy cartoon. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So you had a lot of artistic ability. So the first person that John thought of for the job was Phil.

and Phil was ready to team up yet again. So he started work with John and Harlan in 1973, and he actually worked there through 1980. And over the years, he actually designed a ton of iconic album covers. He did America's Greatest Hits History album, Poco's Legend album, and Seven. He also did Steely Dan's Aja, I think so you say it. And he did Crosby, Stills, and Nash's logo. Wow. Yeah.

Like all of that was designed by Phil Hartman. Very casual, Phil. Cray, craye. So, so talented. I know. So taking the jobs he did with John ended up being some of Phil's smartest moves early on in his career.

But a random night out for his friend and attorney, Steve Small's birthday, turned out to be one of his biggest breaks yet. Because for Steve's birthday, a group of his buddies were going to see a comedy show featuring the famous comedy troupe, The Groundlings. So the Groundlings were created by Gary Austin in 1974. And over the years, a ton of famous. people have gotten their start in the groundlings, just to name a few, Maya Rudolph, Kristen Wigg, John Lovitz, Will Ferrell.

Heard of them? And Elvira. Hell yeah. I was like, I did not know that. She's fucking hilarious. She dated Phil Hartman very briefly. That's amazing. Isn't that crazy?

Wow. Yeah. Wow. Bananas. That's amazing. She really is hilarious. She's the best. So that one night in 1975, Steve and Phil and their buddies are waiting for the

groundlings to come on stage. And Phil just hoped up. on stage and started doing his famous impressions while they were waiting. Yeah. He was like, you know, these people need entertainment. Yeah, of course. He had the audience in tears. Like, they all were laughing so hard. So he caught the attention of Gary Austin. Like, Gary Austin's peeking through the curtain like, who the hell is this guy? Like, he's good. Yeah, like, what's going on out here? So later on that night, Phil went up to Gary and was like, hey, man, how do I join the group? Like, you guys were great. I would love to be a part of this. Yeah. And Gary was like, honestly,

anybody can join. You just have to pay 25 bucks a month for the workshops. And Phil was like, cool, I'm in. And he actually, instead of paying $25 a month for the workshops, he actually just redesigned their logo. And they were like, okay, like we're even. Wow. Isn't that so cool? In what year was this?

With 1975. That's very 70s, just like, I'll make you a logo, man. Yeah. The most 70s. They're like, yeah, fucking do. He's like a barter, some moon rocks with you, man. Can we just? I have this rabbit's foot guy.

You want that? It's lucky. So Phil was a hit with everyone in the troop. They all said he was a natural. He had a bunch of different characters that he would play. One of them, there's a picture of this in Mike Thomas' book that is just fucking hilarious. He was Lightman or Lightman. Phil.

Lightman. Lightman, light man. I think it was Lightman. So Phil would be shirtless, but he would have a belt of upward pointing flashlights. He would be wearing tight black pants and a white mask and a white visor. and he would carry around a flashlight. And randomly, throughout his act, he would shine the light onto someone in the audience and just read their mind by answering a question.

He just knew they were thinking. Amazing. That's an amazing character. The picture of it. I'm going to have to see if I can find one to post. The picture is amazing. So funny. I was doing some research for this the other day, and I was like, Elena, please look at this.

And then he had another character, too, that ended up being huge for the groundlings. His name was Chick-Hazard, and he was an, oh, Tammy, detected. obviously. And they would set up like murder mystery type of sketches. And it was like a really good way to get everyone in the troop involved. And it was the first character that Phil really worked on like flushing out. Like really making a three dimensional character. And I guess at one point during the first couple of years with the groundlings, Phil just all of a sudden decided that it wasn't for him anymore and he was leaving. Oh. Yeah, just like suddenly. One of the words that Mike Thomas used when describing the reason that Phil left was that he became disillusioned. with it all. Okay. And that seemed to be like somewhat of a theme in Phil's life. Like all of a sudden, he would just be like, nope, never mind. Like, yeah, I'm just done. I'm not into it. It's kind of, it's like relationships. Exactly. He just would become disillusioned with the relationship. Exactly. So during his time away, he actually recorded his first comedy album called Flat TV. Okay. And Phyllis Katz and Teresa Burton appear on the album. And he also did like a lot of random voiceovers for

radio ads. But through time, he started to realize that he missed his troop and he wanted to go back. So everyone was stoked to have him back. And it was then that Chick really became a star. Oh, okay. And one of their favorite skips to perform. It actually almost ended up being an off-Broadway play. Wow. Yeah.

But as Phil started to become bigger and bigger, with the group, he got like a ton of commercials and started gaining roles in movies and TV shows too. Chick Hazard was actually in Cheech and Chong's next movie. Yeah. Phil also appeared in Scooby-Doo and Shaggy Do. He also was in the friendly little toaster with John Lovitz, which I didn't know. Why? I feel like I remember that now.

Yeah. But that just like escaped in my memory until you brought it up. It just like erupted in my mind. I had no idea that he was in that. It's a brave little toaster. Such a good movie. It's a great movie. I feel like I remember nothing about it.

I don't want to watch it at all now. No, like I'm glad I was there. I'm glad I know that. Yeah, I'm glad I know that. Exactly. So yeah, he was in that with John Lovitz. and John Lovitz was like one of Phil's best friends. John Lovits is very funny.

hilarious. But Phil also appeared in the dating game in 1979 and he won and the girl stood him up on the date. No. In like, hello Gina. Imagine being the one that stood up Phil Hartman on the date, you jerk. Dang. But it was a good thing because right around that time it was like a little closer to the 80s, he met this woman named Lisa Strain at a restaurant in Chinatown.

So they danced together. And then he asked for her phone number. But apparently nobody around had a pen so he couldn't write it down. But no problem. He was like, I need your phone number. Give it to me. And she was like, okay. Like, how are you going to remember it?

Say it out loud, I suppose. He repeated it out loud the whole way home so that he could call her the next day. That's really sweet. And some people can't even get a text back. I was going to say, dang. Can you get a text back. And he worked for it. It drives home like 617, 832, 9,999.

That's, sorry if that's your phone number. And for him to be able to do that the entire way home, the stress that that would take. Seriously. Because you'd be like, what if I just accidentally invert one of the two of the numbers or something? Like, oh, man. And then you just lose her forever. Then you just, you lost her forever. Luckily he didn't.

He called her the next day. And he actually invited her to go to a wedding with him. And she was like, that's quite a first date. She was like, that's not really my idea of a first date. How about sushi? You want to try sushi? So he was like, yeah, I'll do sushi. But Lisa was a hot ticket.

She was like really tiny in stature, but she was a bodybuilder. And she would wear these like really cool like grunge punk outfits. She had micro bangs that were cut into like kind of a U. Or like a V kind of. Yeah. She just like cool shit. We'll post a picture of her. And on their first date together, they went to sushi.

But then the second date they went to the wedding. Hell yeah, they did. Because they really hit it off at sushi. Because she was like, let's just quickly do this sushi thing. Got to make sure you're not a weirdo. Just make sure you're not a serial killer. Yeah. And then off we go to a.

a wedding, man. Better yet, make sure you are a weirdo. Yeah, make sure you're a weirdo, but not like the scary weirdo. Right. Then let's go to a wedding. Let's go. Why not? You did the date. You had a first date.

And apparently she wore like this like see-through kind of like mesh bottom to the wedding that people were like really pissed off about. Like namely the bride probably. Namely the bride, but she was just vivant. And they were pretty much inseparable from that point on. So in the summer of 1982, they got engaged. Phil had actually asked her a couple of times before that and she was like, I don't know, like not yet.

I'm good. Not yet. And then something about that summer hit different and she was ready. She was ready. She got a new pair of mesh bottoms and she was just all about it. Probably. So by December of the same year they were married. Just like his first marriage to Gretchen though, things were really, really good in the

beginning. They couldn't take their hands off each other. But somewhere in the middle of the relationship, it just started to fizzle out. Because Phil was really busy with work. And when he did have extra time to spend with Lisa, she said that he just wanted to, like, stay at home and eat ice cream. And she was like, we're young. Like, we got to go out. We got to do this. I'm like, I want to stay at home to eat ice cream. Which to us, we're like, that sounds great. Let's go. Like what flavor are we talking? Yeah, let's do this. Ben and Jerry's just released a new

flavor that has, um, it's peanut butter, but it has like hard chocolate on the top. And then you get these little like peanut butter like things in the middle. It's really good. Sorry to it. I got side tracked. Sorry about it. I love ice cream. So did Phil. There we go. We're back. There you go. So she was like, we got to do more than eat ice cream. And he was like, I don't. really want to. And so she was like, I want to see the world. Like, let's go to Catalina Island. So he was like, all right, that sounds cool. I was like, that's pretty easy. Let's do that. So I guess she was one of the first people to take him there. Oh, wow. Yeah. And he ended up falling in love with Catalina Island, like over the years when he had like a break from work or something. That's

where he ended up. It's that wine mixer. It'll get you every time. I don't know what that means. Catalina wine mixer. What's a wine mixer? The fucking Catalina wine mixer. What is a wine brothers. Oh. I missed that. I was like, what is a wine mixer? I was like, I'm going to get you. Didn't get you. No, you didn't. Sorry. I haven't seen that movie a long time. It's the fucking Catalina wine mixer. I have no memory whatsoever. That's wild. Anyways, she. So they go away. They like have this really great time. And then she was like, okay, like that was good. But she was like, I really want our sex life to be like what it used to be in the beginning or like we're just like not having any intimate time together at all and she said that

she would try but like most times phil was busy or he just wasn't in the mood so she said that he used to tell her she was a black hole that no one would be ever ever able to fill up wow it was like you just like you need too much attention and i can't give it to you need too much you're a black hole you're a black hole that no one will ever fill up it's actually in a letter that she wrote to him that's quite i don't that's i don't even know what to to say about that. They had like a very intense relationship. Sounds like it. Like they would write letters back and forth and they would be very much like that. Like very intense. And like very young. Like remember, they're both pretty young at this point. Yeah. So in an effort to splice things up a little bit,

she thought it would be a good idea to go on a little vacation for their first wedding anniversary. And Lisa knew that Phil had been a big fan of lingerie in the past. So she got like this cute little set. She gets all dolled up. And she said she knew their fate was sealed when she hopped on the bed to reveal her surprise and Phil's response was can you just stop oh and it's like their first wedding anniversary he's just like that's tough yeah it's rough yeah that would that would like shatter me yeah i would be like am i ugly because like which she was not no but you be like you went through all this trouble like that's a bit like getting some lingerie yeah getting up the courage to put it on it's our anniversary to have somebody like just make it like womp won't you just stop it's like oh

man yeah I'll just stop I'll just stop I'll stop forever yeah well and it's so funny because what you just said she basically was like yep I'll stop like yeah I'm done that would be me I'd be like okay yeah you asked yeah hard stop asking you shall receive yeah exactly nothing so uh they separated shortly after that that's not shocking and they were officially divorced in May of 1985 and at first they were like obviously very heartbroken over this divorce they tried getting back together on at least one it But then Lisa was like after a couple of weeks, he was right back to just emotionally disengaging. So she just couldn't do it. And over time, they got to the point where they could get back to being friends later in life.

And like way later in life, they would actually meet for lunch sometimes, like just to hang out with each other and catch up. Yeah. And Phil would even tell his next wife that he and Lisa had been soulmates. But that would be another few years down the road. Whoa. Yeah, relationships were hard. Not something I would want to hear. Can you imagine if John was like, yeah, like my life.

last, what, like, he wasn't married before, but. My ex and I were actually soulmates. I'd be like, well, you should go find her. I'd be like, then your soul should mate again. Bye. Bye. See ya. So while everything was going on with the divorce, Phil was working on another big project. He and Paul Rubin, aka Pee Wee Herman, knew each other from the groundlings troop, and Phil played a character, Captain Carl, in the sketch that would later be a TV show, Pee Wee's Playhouse. So at the time, Paul, Phil, and this guy, Michael Varhall were all working on writing a screenplay to Pee Wee's Playhouse, and they're turning it into a movie, which would later become Peewee's Big Adventure.

I've never heard of that. Yeah. You know, I've never seen. These are all very obscure references. I don't know what you're talking about. It's just, it's any Peeley Herman anything. It just, it wasn't your, your time. No, not at all.

Because when I grew up, Peewee's playhouse was like. It was like the 80s. The shit. Yeah. Like, I watched that all the time. So did you, like you've seen Captain Carl then and everything? Yeah. Yeah.

So that was Phil. I remember that. I mean, vividly. Yeah. Yeah. That was Phil. I'm like, let me tell you all about Phil. You're like, I literally grew up with him.

So during that time, they would get frustrated with Phil though while they're writing this script because he would just kind of like space out clearly going like somewhere else in his mind, just like emotionally detaching because he's going through a divorce. Yeah. Now, Paul and Phil actually had a really rocky relationship over the years. And when the time finally did come to do the film, Pee Wee's Big Adventure, it was kind of like Paul forgot about all the people along the way that made it happen and just was like really concerned with himself. Yeah. And actually, Phil said later in an interview with Howard Stern, I believe,

that they had actually all agreed that they would each get three percent of like whatever the shows turned into. And they never did. Oh, wow. And Howard Stern was like, you should sue. And he was like, well, I don't really need to. He's like, no, I'm good. But so they started off as friends, but then like their relationship was rocky even while they were friends. And then it was just kind of like this big screw over that he was like, you know, I think like Paul just forgot about who he was along the way. I think that's, yeah. And how do you get over that? Yeah, you just don't. That's a pretty big fuck you. Yeah. I mean, I think over the years, we all saw the cards that Karma dealt out to Paul Rubin. Yeah. I think it all ended up being okay. I think it all did. Yeah.

But before the demise of their friendship, um, Paul was asked to be on SNL in 1985 and he said, okay, can I bring a couple of my own writers, which was like not really something that you did back then because SNL had writers. They did. But he was Pee-Wy-Herman, so they were like, yeah, sure. So you're Pee-Wee, you can do whatever you want. Pee-wee, of course. So Phil was one of those writers. And Phil, by that point, had actually already passed up the opportunity to be on SNL. Really? Yeah, he had passed it up. But once he made his way to New York and he kind of saw what it was all about, he had second thoughts. So they asked him again to audition in 1986. And, and, you know, because they were like always, always so impressed with his improbabilities.

And then when he came on to write for Paul Rubin, there was like this level of respect that everybody had for him. So the second time he was asked to audition, Phil was like, you know what, why not? Obviously he knocked that audition out of the park. And he was again asked to join the cast. But by all accounts, he didn't really jump at the second chance. He was nervous to sign on for a few different reasons. For one thing, he was used to California. And that's like a very different lifestyle than New York.

Yeah, of course. It's crazy busy in New York. It's city life. He was like, I'm just not sure about that. Like, he was very laid back guy. And then he also was 38 at the time. And a lot of people wondered if he was worried because so much of the cast was going to be like a decade younger than him. I was just going to say that's the thing because a lot of them are like young up and coming comedians.

So it's like if you're up against like, you know, Pete Davidson and you're like. The love of my life. And you're how, what, 38? You're going to feel a little like, you're going to be like, you never love me, mom. Not that you have any reason to, but like human nature is just going to be like, damn, I'm like the old person on here. Self-doubt. Because like sometimes I do that, so I understand. Yeah, and even like if you're not old, you're going to think of all the reasons why you shouldn't do it and what's going to go wrong.

I said even if you're not old. He wasn't old. Even if you're not. Even if you're not geriatric. Geriatric, like 38-year-old Phil Hartman. I love you, Phil. So Joel Silver, one of the most famous producers that worked on S&N. at the time called up Phil and he was like guy you'd be crazy not to take this gig so Phil finally agreed and he signed on for the 12th season of SNL so everybody was so excited to have him there especially

Lorne Michaels one of the creators of SNL because around the time that Phil joined the show Lauren was kind of just getting back into a groove with the show he had actually taken a leave in 1980 and when he came back everything was a straight up mess with SNL and so he kind of got things back And he got people like Eddie Murphy and Martin Short on the show. He killed it. Killed it with that. But then they left and ratings were down. And there was actually rumors that S&L was going to be canceled.

So everybody in the 12th season, the way that they put it was that they were like walking on eggshells because I remember when this was like a big thing. Yeah. Can you imagine if they had fucking canceled SNL? Like it's still amazing. Yeah. Has been always will be. Yep.

So but at that point, everybody was like, really nervous because they're like, shit, we have to perform. And if we don't, we're going to be the people that got SNL canceled. Can you imagine that on your shoulders? No. But luckily, Phil would turn out to be one of the biggest stars yet. He had all kinds of characters that developed over his ears on the show. And he also, he wasn't just an actor on the show. He was also a writer. So he wrote pieces too. I love when they're writers and performers. Yeah. There's just something different about it. I think it happens more often now that there's writers. and actors, but back then, he was one of, like, only a few people that did that.

Pretty hard of. Yeah, exactly. So he actually wrote his own character, the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer. Remember it. Remember it. That was his original. He'd also do Frank Sinatra, Ed McMahon, Ronald Reagan, and one of my personal favorites of Bill Clinton.

Oh, so good. So like I said in the beginning, Drew is obviously like a huge fan of Phil Hartman. So when I said that I was going to do this case, he's whipping out all those DVDs. and stuff like that. He's like, you need to watch these skits if you're going to do Phil Hartman. Watch the skits. And I was like, I will. So my favorite one was the one where Bill Clinton is supposed to be like on a jog with the Secret Service agents. But then he rolls into like what we is pretty much McDonald's and he starts eating everybody's food. Then he's like, sure, I'll hold your baby. What's your name? You're going to finish that? Like, so fucking funny. He's just so perfect at it. So good at it. He's and he's good at every impression. There's not a bad impression that he did.

Because they just, everyone he did, he knew he did well. Yes. He didn't do ones that he wasn't perfect at. No. He was like, no, I won't do that one, but I know I can do this one. I know I can kill this one. So Lorne Michaels later said of Phil, quote, Phil has done more work that touched greatness than probably anybody else that's ever been here.

Wow. Isn't that crazy to have Lauren Michael say that about you? And I guess they were like close, but then toward the end, they had like a difficult relationship. And Lorne still said that about him. Wow. That's impressive. When somebody you're not super close to you can say something like that.

Exactly. And he also was referred to as the glue. They would call him the glue on SNL. Because it was like he was the glue that held everybody together. It makes sense for the time frame that he was on SNL. It makes sense that he would be the glue. Yeah. So just before Phil had moved out to New York, and this is kind of where the true crime part gets rolling.

Because I'm sure you're all like, when does the true crime come into this? So just before he had moved out to New York, he had started dating this girl, Bryn Omdahl, I believe is how you say her last name. They had met in 1985 at a party thrown by a director. And Brin herself was born in Thief Falls, Minnesota in 1958 to parents Don and Connie. Her given name was actually Vicky Joe. I see where you got Bryn. Yep. But yeah, I don't know where she got Bryn.

I tried so hard, but I could never ever find out. Yeah. She changed in their teen years. She was like, I'm not Vicki Jo and Bryn. I call me that first. So she dropped out of high school to actually pursue a modeling. career and she did a little bit of work in Minnesota before she moved out to California. She was also married once while she lived in Minnesota, but it was like a very short marriage.

So she moves out to California. She's continuing on with her modeling career and she also has the hopes of becoming this big actress. But when she gets out to California, she gets signed with this agency. Strangely enough, she worked for Catalina Swimware. Oh. Isn't that like a weird kind of connection? Yeah. Yeah.

And so she starts like doing auditions and taking classes. is, but her dream of being an actress just wasn't panning out. She got like a couple of commercials and like really small roles, but it wasn't... The tale is oldest time. The tale is oldest time. It wasn't what she wanted to do. Yeah. So it was during a low point in her life out there in California that she just started doing

cocaine. And things got very serious with her addiction. And she ended up having to go to rehab actually in like her early years. But she got clean, like going to rehab. And by the time she met Phil, she had been sober for years. Oh, wow. Yeah. So she and Phil actually.

had a very rocky relationship from the beginning, like even when they were dating. Yeah. They would fight. They'd break up suddenly. There was like an instance where he was supposed to go to a dinner and he'd he just like never called the person and they were like, what the hell happened? And then finally when they got in touch, he was like, I'm so sorry. Like me and Bryn got in a fight on the way and I had to drive her back home and we're not together anymore. And like, it was, it was that kind of relationship. Yeah. We all have seen things like that. Yeah, we've all either had one like that or been in one where you're like, get out of that. Don't you know. But they would get back together the next week.

Like everything was fine. Be like what? No, it's fine. Everything's cool. So when Phil moved out to New York to join SNL, his relationship with Bryn was kind in one of its rocky periods. He was not sure if they were going to stay together. But while he was on break during his first season, he went back to L.A.

And they must have figured things out because Brin came back to New York to live with him. So the next couple of years for Phil and especially his career would be a blur. after his second season of S&L, he started getting way more opportunities. He was doing like big name commercials. Apparently McDonald's paid him like over a million dollars for one ad. Damn. Imagine. And he also, imagine, imagine, imagine being sponsored by McDonald's.

We should look into that, just simply for the chicken nuggets of it all. That could get so dangerous. I was just going to say that could be real bad. You didn't hear that, McDonald's. I love you. I love you. He also got the opportunity at that point, though. to work on The Simpsons. And he voiced the characters, Lionel Hutz, who was like this sleazy lawyer.

And he was created to represent Bard after he got hit by a car. And then there was Troy McClure, who was a B movie actor that had, quote, fallen on hard times. I remember that character so well. I was not allowed to watch The Simpsons growing up. I wasn't either when I was younger. Yeah, when I lived with my mom. When I lived with my mom, I couldn't watch it. But then when I would visit my dad, my dad fucking loved The Simpsons. but then I was like, I thought it was weird. Like I was just like, I'm not into this.

But so I never really got to watch it. He's a great, that's a great character. Yeah. And I guess he would always, Troy McClure would always introduce himself with some variation of, you might remember me or you may remember me from. And that is why Mike Thomas titled the book, You Might Remember Me. Oh, I love that. That's cool.

I thought so. So all of that is going on, all these major career moves. And then Phil decides to make a major life move. he is thinking about asking Bryn to marry him. And a lot of people are very confused about this decision because they were known to fight a lot. I was going to say, because it's rocky. In fact, I guess he showed Elvira the ring and she was like, oh God, don't do that. Elvira.

Like her first response was like, oh, God, no. Don't do that. And he was like mad, I guess. Wow. And they actually didn't like talk for a while because of it. And she was like in Gilmore girls when Dean tells Rory he's going to ask Lindsay to marry him. And she's like, you shouldn't do that. And he gets mad at her.

And it's like, she's just being a friend, man. But it's like your heart's set on it. And like, oh, I know. You're never going to get a reaction. Like anybody who is like, I'm going to marry this person and you're like, oh, no, you shouldn't do that. They're never going to go, oh, really? Why? Exactly.

It's never going to happen. It's so much bigger than you. But you are being a good friend. Sorry, I have my microphone. Alvira. She's a good friend. Good job. She was like, I felt bad.

But like, I just said it. No, Alvira tells the way that is. She does. I fucking love her. I love her. So everybody's like, why is, that's really fast. Like, you guys should probably figure out some stuff first. Also, quick, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but her name is, just so you know,

we know what her name is. Oh, yeah. Her name is not Alvarez. No, it's not, but she goes, like, she's no, my Elvira. Just in case anybody was like, her name is Cassandra Peters. True, true, true. But. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Oh, no, no, you're good. That was like a good. I'm like, it's just Telvira. It's Elvira. So everybody's like, ah. What are you doing? And obviously he loved Brin and wanted to marry her. But there was also the fact that she was two months pregnant.

That'll do it. Yes. So when he popped the question, she obviously said yes. And they were married in November of 1987. I believe it was November 25th, to be exact. Okay. And Brin gave birth to their son in June of 88. I'm not going to say their kids' names because their kids have made a point to

try to stay out of the public eye as much as possible. Yeah, good call. So I just, in case, in case, I'm like, do you know their names? Yes. I do. He's like, do know their name, being respectful. So Lisa Strain actually, so his second wife, were called sending Bryn and Phil a card to congratulate them on their son's birth. And she was like, congratulations, beautiful baby boy.

Like, if you ever need anything, Auntie Lisa's here, like la, la, la. She's very much a free spirit. I have to say if somebody, if I was with Drew and he was married to somebody before and we had a kid and they called themselves my kid's aunt, I would probably not be pleased. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and say that as well. So, like, I understand my Bryn was, like, upset to a degree. But I don't condone the action that she did after. Uh-oh. So Lisa gets this four-page letter from Bryn, just flipping out on her.

She said that this letter contains some of the most brutal things that she had ever read. Oh, damn. Brin threatened her, and she said, stay away from my family. Never contact me again. Stay away from Phil. I don't want to hear your name. And if you come near us, I will rip your... eyes out.

Whoa. She said that she would rip her eyes out. So Lisa. That's not, not okay. Not okay to do. I understand that she was angry because also, um, was it this one or was it another one that Phil had said like you literally, you literally, you just gave me the perfect translation because I was going to say, yes, this was, Phil had told Brin that they had been

soulmates because Bryn was like, oh, Phil, are we soulmates? And he was like, no, like me and Lisa were. But like, you and I are great. We're doing the damn thing. We're doing the damn thing. So I do understand the anger. Absolutely. And, you know, like, you do crazy shit when you've just had a baby.

I've heard of, like, wild stuff. Well, when you've just had a baby and this other person that has probably already occupied a space in your mind because of that other comment, is commenting at all, even nicely on that baby or talking to that baby, like they have some thing in their life. Right. I would be very angry. Right. So I would be very angry, but just to play devil's advocate and look on the other side of

things. For sure. I think Lisa is just like a free spirit and she thought that she was being nice and she just wanted to be like, oh my gosh, guys, congratulations. Yeah, for sure. I'll do anything for you. So I can see both sides of it. Yeah, because I think with Lisa, I don't think she was thinking of it in a romantic way.

I don't think she was thinking of it as I'm going to get fillback by doing this. No. Or I'm going to destroy their marriage or I'm going to cause issues. It probably just wasn't even a thought. No, I think she literally was just like, I'm so happy for you guys. So I think this was just two people. on two totally different spectrums of this whole situation, like one thinking it's totally fine, the other one being like, this is a personal attack on my marriage.

Yes, exactly. And I can understand both. I can understand both, but what I can't understand is threatening to rip somebody's eyes out. I'll never understand that. No, that's not a great thing to do. It's not. I don't condone that. Nor do I.

So Lisa was shooketh, clearly. And she called Phil and was like, what the fuck, dude? Like, do you know that Brin sent me this letter? And like, is she going to rip my eyes out? Yeah. And Phil was like, oh, you should. probably like not contact all of us as like a family unit like if you want to talk you should probably just reach out to me because like brin fucking hates you like you actually should have seen the first

letter that she was going to send you i guess she had written like a worse letter than that like and so lisa that she kept in the pile yeah and lisa was like oh so you knew that she was sending me and like going to threaten me and you let her do that like fuck you he's like yeah and he was like i don't really want to be a part of this at all like i mean i have to go to s and i don't tell people what to do. It's fair. I don't blame Phil. I think he was just like, ah. But Lisa was really hurt by that because they were still friends and everything. So they actually didn't speak for a couple of years afterwards, but then they reconnected later down the road. Oh, good. So even though Bryn had a temper, by all accounts, she really was an amazing mother. I guess she took care of the kids. She had the

help of a nanny, but people said the nanny was more like a housekeeper. Like she was there through all the kids, everything. And her biggest problem people said was that she needed more from Phil, which was like everybody who had ever been in a relationship with him needed more emotionally. And for Bryn, she needed more emotionally, but she also needed more physically. Like he was really busy and she wanted him home more. Yeah. I think he needed a very specific kind of partner. Absolutely. And I don't think he found it. Absolutely. I think that's the perfect way of saying it. Um, but Phil loved being a father. His daughter was going to be born about three years later. And when it was announced on SNL, he was like visibly crying and like so happy. That's really cute. He said of being a father, quote,

I didn't fully experience my capacity to love until I had children. And then I sensed this complete unconditional love in myself. Oh, I love that. Beautiful. And when he was home with the kids, he was, like, present for every second that he was there. And he would play with them. Like, he and his daughter had this incredible bond. Him and his son would play that Squiggles game that he used to play with John.

He brought it back. And brought it back. And they created like an amazing bond. But Brin needed more. And that tension was only going to build and build and build over the air. she would call him right before he was set to go out for dress rehearsals before the show before he was about to film and she would just like rope him into these huge fights and get him all antsy before going on stage which she probably was like I don't go the fuck I want you

home yeah she's okay and he's like I'm trying to make us like a living by doing this and they're just they really weren't meant for each other no it doesn't sound like it no and one of the makeup artist Norman brin he was one of the main people to actually do Phil's makeup on the show he remembered a few times where Phil would show up to get his makeup done just like visibly shaken by a fight that he had gone through with Brim. There were a couple of, that's no way to live together, man. If you guys are making each other feel that way, it's not worth it. No, you're supposed to make each other like, I know it's tough, but like feel like the best people in the world. Yeah, everybody argues.

Everybody disagrees. But if you're feeling that terrible in your relationship, it's like, oh. Yeah, and like you should just always. I know it's hard. It's not easy to just be like, oh, I don't feel good in this. Right. We're going to end it. Right.

I know we have a kid and I know everything we're married. Two kids, yeah. Yeah, it's not easy. Of course not. So there were times where he would sit in a chair, like really upset and be like, well, we're getting divorced. And I guess whenever he like would say like, oh, like, he said like, wife wants a divorce. Life wants a divorce. And he would say it like in one of his impression voices almost like, you know how people use comedy in times like that?

Yep. And then the makeup artist would be like, ah, I'm so sorry. That's, I literally do that all the time. Yeah. I make people so uncomfortable because I do. You're like, I can't handle emotions, so I just go totally into like, ah. Emotions are hard. And then there were other times where, like, Phil wouldn't show up to the makeup chair,

and they'd have to go looking for him. And then they would, like, hear him in his dressing room fighting with Bryn. She would also show up. I guess there was one event where everybody pointed out that she showed up in, like, this black cocktail dress, which has nothing to do with the story. But every single source I read was like she showed up in this black cocktail dress. It was this freaking cocktail dress. They got up, like, this huge fight.

and we're like yelling at each other. It was the dress. And then Phil had to go on scene. But I was like, that's a lot. All right. I don't think it was the dress. I don't think so. But people thought that Bryn not only wanted Phil to be home more, but it was also a jealousy thing of the attention that he was getting.

Because remember, she wanted to be an actress. And throughout his years on SNL, he was not only one of the most beloved people on the show, but he's getting these big opportunities now. He's on the Simpsons. when he finished his final season of SNL in 1994, he was going to start his own show, which was going to be the Phil show. And Brin wanted to be part of the Phil show. So Phil was working with these producers,

and he's like, oh, do we have a part for Brin? And they're like, well, I guess they were like, is she funny? And he said, in her own way. So it never really, the Phil show never panned out. But he would go home to Brin and she'd be like, oh, do I have a part? And he'd be like, oh, not today.

He's like, put in a great word for you. Yeah, put in my best word for you. Not so much. So he ended up playing instead of the Phil show. He did NBC's News Radio, where he played Bill, the Real Deal McNeil. I loved news radio. Did you really? Me and Ma used to watch News Radio in her bed at night.

I love that. I never knew that. We loved News Radio. Oh my God, I loved that. And I loved him on News Radio. Amazing. Yeah, he played like this like really like cocky, like news guy. He was an asshole in it.

He was perfect. Yeah. So, yeah, Bryn is like, cool, you're not getting me any parts. You're getting all this recognition. I want you home more. Tension is building. Tension is building. Oh, and I feel like that must be such a weird dynamic too. It's like when somebody has been struggling to, especially like actors and actresses because it's a totally different ego situation there anyway. But it's like when one of them have this been like super struggling to make it and is not making the other one explodes. You do wonder what that does to a dynamic. It's like a like a power struggle almost, you know? So Brin's temper was also getting worse and worse. And eventually she would relapse on cocaine. And that was a no-go for Phil. Again, he was not into the hard drugs at all. He urged Brin to go into treatment over the next year or so. And she did, but she would be in and out of treatment center.

She had a really hard time getting off of cocaine. That's sad. Which people do struggle with that, of course. I can imagine. So she'd relapse and the whole cycle would start again. And then they would be arguing. So she and Phil would get into these terrible, terrible arguments where she would be throwing things at him allegedly.

She was said to have hit him in the past. His friend said that he confided in them about occasions where he literally just had to restrain her because she just couldn't calm down. Oh, man. But most of the time, he would just walk away from the fight in the middle of it. He'd be like, I can't do this. Yeah. I'm just walking away.

Because he probably knew where it was going always. Exactly. And it seemed just like in his life that he was kind of a pacifist. Like he didn't like to engage in people's tempers. things like that. So he would literally just be like, I'm going to bed and he would walk away. But that would only make her more angry because then she's feeling like she's not being heard. It was this horrible cycle. And on the night of May 28th, 1998, she was going to go to dinner with one of her friends, Christine Zander. They went to Bucco to Pepo, which if you watch the Real Housewives,

it's not the same one that Dorito. I was just going to say that. Oh my God, really? You saw that season? I was literally just thinking, of course I did. Amazing. Bucco de Pepo. So they went to a different Bucco to Pepo together and they had a couple of cocktails. Bryn was said to have had two Cosmos, which they were like, she only had two cocktails. And I was like, one Cosmo knocks me into the stratosphere. I was just going to say, has anyone had a Cosmo? Cosmos are no joke. They are definitely, they're looked at because they're like pink and like they look fruity.

Uh-huh. They're intense. They're also pink because they have literally one little drop of fucking cranberry juice. Exactly. So it's just, it's not even a splash. We'll spit cranberry juice just to make it pretty pink. And other than that, it's fucking... Everything else is alcohol.

Vodka. Like, wah. Raw. So she had two cosmos. And while they were there, Christine was just saying, like, Bryn was absolutely miserable. She was complaining about Phil the whole time. She just didn't seem like she was in a good headspace at all.

And Christine later wondered, like, if she was on something or not. And Bryn really wanted to keep this night going. But Christine was like, I just thought we were kind of getting, like, I thought this was going to be like a drinks and apps kind of thing. Like, yeah, I got to get back to whatever I have going on. this is not going to be like a night. Yeah. And Bryn was like, well, I don't want to go home.

So Christine left. She went home and Bryn actually ended up going to see her friend Ron Douglas. They had dated in the past, but then they were just friends. So she got there around 10 p.m. And he said when she got there, she seemed like she was very jumpy and agitated. It seemed to him like she may have done cocaine. And she spent most of her time there again complaining about Phil and saying how they should just get divorced and, you know, things were going horrible. They were headed toward the way of a divorce and he was always yelling at her.

Just really like, I wish you had just done that. I know. Me too. So as she's complaining about all this, they drink a few beers together. Ron had had enough by about quarter to one and he was like, all right, like I'm headed to bed. You got to get out of here. Like love you. Yeah. So she hopped in her Jeep and she headed home to where Phil and the kids were. They had a nanny earlier that day, but when Phil got home, he put the kids to bed and he was just kind of like viving himself. So when Brin got home, people assumed they must have gotten into some kind of argument, and because it was typical. And Phil, not wanting to engage any further, must have just turned around and headed to bed. But unfortunately, the night did not end there. Brin showed back up at Ron's around 3.45 in the

morning, clearly shit-faced. As she had actually called him about 25 minutes before, and she said, Phil's not home. He left me a note that he's going to be back later, but I don't want to be alone. And he's like, listen, you can't come back over here. It's way too late. Like, this can't happen. And your kids are home. Like, you can't leave them alone. Yeah.

He's like, you should take an aspirin. You should go to bed. She obviously did not follow that advice because she ends up back at his house 25 minutes later. So when Ron opens the door, she was clearly in a state. She had no shoes on. She was in pajamas and she reeked of alcohol. He started saying something to her. And she interrupted him and was like, don't yell at me.

Phil always yells at me. I don't want to be yelled at. And he was like, I'm not yelling at you. Yeah. So she went to go sit on the couch and she fell off and passed out on the floor. And Ron went over to shake her awake. And as she was waking up because she like got rattled, she immediately got sick and ran into the bathroom to throw up.

And in between throwing up, she asked him, can you call my house? Like can you get in touch with Phil? You have to call my house. And he was like, okay. So we called the house a couple of times, but nobody answered. And during all of that, at one point or another, Brin's purse, fell onto the floor. And out of it, along with a bunch of other contents, a 38th Smith and Weston Handgun fell to the floor. Oh boy. So Ron grabbed it and he was like, what the hell is this

doing here? Like, why did you bring a gun to my house? And she starts sobbing at this point. And in between her sobs, she said, I killed Phil and I don't know why. And he was like, no, you didn't kill Phil. Like don't say that. Why would you say that? No, you didn't. And she's sobbing and she's clearly like inebriated. She's not making sense with the other things that she's saying. So he takes the gun into the kitchen and he unloads it and he's like, no, everything is here. Like she didn't shoot him, but he must have. Probably just trying to convince himself too. Exactly. Everything's fine. This didn't really happen. Exactly. So he takes the gun into the kitchen. He's like, no, there's no way. Like I counted. Everything's fine. He puts it away. And then for the

next two hours, he's just trying to sober burn up. He's giving her water, whatever she needs. So when she finally seemed good enough to drive home, she was like, you have to follow behind me. Like, you have to bring the gun with you. And he was like, I don't want to be a part of this, but like, I need to make sure that you get home okay. He had no idea what this was all about. So he grabs the gun and he follows behind Brin. And at that moment, he recounted everything again in the gun and noticed that he did not realize it the first time, but two bullets were missing from the gun. He thought he was actually wrong. There was more than two bullets missing. I was going to say, I thought it was. I thought it was. But I think in his panicked state, he just was like, what the fuck is going on here? So he hurried, he put the gun and he like wrapped the gun up in something, put it in his trunk and followed behind Brind, who was already in her car calling another friend to tell them what she'd done. And on the way home, she blew through two red lights. She was like driving like a crazy person.

And when they got into the house, Brin started walking to the bedroom and Ron was following behind. He's like, what the fuck am I going to find? When they got to the doorway, Brin started screaming and sobbing. And she said, I did it. I did it. I killed Phil. I don't know why. And he's behind her. He peeks in and he can see that Phil is in bed and there is clearly a bullet hole in between his eyes. So that is the most ominous shit. I can't imagine stumbling upon this scene. You probably are like, I'm not seeing what I'm seeing. And you will never, ever, ever be the same again. No. Ever. That's going to change you forever.

So immediately he calls 911. And Brin is in the bedroom at this point. She locks herself in the bedroom while he's on the phone with 911. She calls another friend. Her name was Marcy. And she tells her, I killed Phil. So immediately Marcy's like, what are you talking about? No, no, no, no.

They lived a couple blocks away. Marcy and her husband, Steve. So they start heading over to the house. So again, Brin's locked herself in the bedroom with Phil at this point. And she was now on the phone with her sister Kathy. She told Kathy, I killed Phil. you have to tell the children that I love them. And Kathy said back to her, like, I know you love the kids.

What are you talking about? Like she was so confused. She has no idea what's going on. She's like, Bryn, you need to call 911. And she was like, they're on the way. Just to make sure Kathy's husband called 911 too. And he was told that they were almost to the residence. So at that point, Ron was downstairs trying to let Marcy and her husband Steve inside.

But the door was dead bolted shut and they needed a key to open it. He was like basically locked inside. Yeah. And he couldn't find the key. key. But at that point, Brin's, um, Brin and Phil's son came out of his room and showed Ron where the key was. So Ron makes his way out with the nine year old son. This is so upsetting. It's horrific. And the police make their way into the home to make, to make sure that, um, Phil and Brin's six year old daughter who was, they wanted to make sure she was safe. They found her

huddled in the corner of her bedroom with a blanket over her, like clearly terrified. Oh, they got her out of there. They were able to get her out of their. They were able to get her out of safely. And then they were like, okay, we have to figure out, like, they're in a standoff at this point with Bryn, who they're hoping to get out of their life. Yeah. And at that point, one of the officers thought that they heard a gunshot, but they couldn't be clear from where it came from in the house because it's a big house. Yeah. So officers at this point, now that the kids are out of the house, are making their way into the house. And one of them, like, threw a brick into the window of the bedroom trying to get in. But it was too late.

Brin had shot herself and was slumped over next to Phil's body when the officers finally got there. Man. Phil had been shot once in the head, once in the neck, and once in the chest. He was shot three times. He was 49 years old. And it's like that's not an accidental. No. I shot him.

Whoops. No. Because those are like three pretty serious shots head, neck, chest. And you're like moving to like it's not like. Yeah. And obviously they're at like close range. Yeah. So when news broke, people were obviously absolutely shocked. John Lovitz, among many others, were just destroyed. He said, quote, I'll say this about missing him. He was my favorite person to

work with. He was like my older brother. I idolized him. I liked him and yet he was like my grandma. He'd be so excited to see me. He just made me feel great about myself. He could do anything. He would just get into something and learn everything about it and go on to the next. The last acting job he had was on a pilot that I did. That was the last job and three weeks later he was killed. It was awful. It was so horrible. In life, there's just a huge gap that will never be filled and part of me just feels lost.

That's so sad. It was so sad. I remember when this happened too. I bet. How old were you like? What year was this? 1998. So you were 12 or 13.

And I remember watching it in my parents' bedroom actually because I used to like in the morning just like hang out there and watch things. Yeah. Because I watched like Princess Diana, that whole thing. Right. I remember always from my parents' bedroom because they had the TV. But I remember watching this unfold. And it was like when they were doing the standoff thing and they thought Bryn was still alive.

So they were doing, I remember vividly the shots outside of the house. Like I remember that watching that. And not like fully comprehending, but being like, whoa. What's going on? Stuff is going down. And they didn't know at that point. Yeah, because they were literally. In a standoff.

Like they weren't sure of anything. Yeah, they didn't know what they were walking. stories they had it but they did not know it was really wild i just like can't imagine and it hit hollywood so oh yeah so when brin's autopsy was completed it showed that she had cocaine in her system she had a blood alcohol content of i've seen point one one and point one two reported okay um and there was also zoloft in her system so her brother actually actually later took out a wrongful death suit against fizer who makes zoloft and her doctor that prescribed her Zoloft. And he claimed that the Zoloft in her system had led her to act erratically.

Okay. And they also said that she didn't actually need to be on Zoloft in the first place. Like it was too strong of a drug. The suit actually settled out of court for $100,000. And Pfizer was cleared of any wrongdoing. Yeah. So I think it was just kind of like a big turning point in like medicine too. For sure.

People were like, oh shit, like Zoloft is a lot. Can do some stuff. do some things. When not take them properly. Exactly. And I think the biggest thing was mixed with alcohol. Exactly. Right. So to a lot of people, it's still a mystery as why, as to why Bryn killed Phil this night. Like, why did it come to this? Right. Yeah. And I think, honestly, it was just a combination of the drugs in her system. I think it, yeah, it was a lot. Some people accredited to that. I'm one of those people. Some people only blame the cocaine, which you can't do. I think you have to. I think it's a total mix. I think everything in her system. Yeah. And actually, Andy Dick was blamed for a while because people claimed that he was the person who dealt burn the cocaine that she had relapsed on after 10 years of being clean.

Like he was at this point in time, like, people and like close friends of Phil's were really upset with Andy. And he was like, this is not my fault. Like you can't say that this is my fault. I know. It's so hard. And he had such a crazy past, you know. Of course. And everybody's grasping at finding an answer here, finding someone to blame.

And that's the biggest thing. And it's like. someone to blame. And no matter what, it's like, there's only one person who murdered someone here. So it's like, that's really the only person you can look at it. Right. And it was like she wasn't there to blame. So it was like they had to give somebody. So when there's no one around to blame, that you're going to grasp at straws. Just trying to find anybody. It was a big web of of wrongdoing in several places. Absolutely. And finally, the last thing that people claim was the reason behind this is the SNL curse.

Oh, yeah. People think there's this whole curse that people in SNL die young. Some of these people include Chris Farley, obviously, John Belushi and Gilda Radner. But I was going to say John. Drew was talking to me about this and he was like, there's no SNL curse. Like he was very hyped about it. He was like, no, it's just like, it just happens. And it's also just lifestyle.

Absolutely. It's like, of course it's going to look like it's pretty like across the board. but it's like it's just a different place, it's a different time, it's a different lifestyle. There are going to be things that are going to point to this a little bit. Of course. And when you look at how many people have been on SNL, there's been so many. Of course, some of them are going to die in strange ways, in not strange ways of strange illnesses. It's a big cast and an ever-changing big cast.

So you can have a lot of people going in and out of here. There's going to be a lot of weird deaths. Like when we're talking about probability here, exactly. Exactly. So by all accounts, just to end this on like somewhat of a happy note, Phil and Brin's kids are doing amazing. They're creating beautiful lives of their own. Amazing. They were on SNL for the 40th anniversary special. That's amazing. They paid tribute to Phil. Wow. And they ended up being raised by Bryn's sister Kathy because that was like what the will said. I was wondering that. So Phil got a star on the Walk of Fame in California at 6600 Hollywood Boulevard if you want to go see it.

And he was also inducted into Canada's Walk of Fame after his death. Wow. He's, is still considered to be one of the greatest SNL characters of all time. And he's often referred to as the Man of a Thousand Voices. Oh, yeah. That's perfect. And his ashes were actually spread along the water on Catalina Island. Oh, that's so perfect. Which is what he wanted.

And to finish this whole thing out, one of the best quotes that I found of Phil's was, what's the good of having big dreams if you're afraid to see where they lead? Hell yeah. I was like, you gotta end it on like a high note. That's a great quote to end up. I love that one. Wow. What's the good of having big dreams?

you're afraid to see where they lead. It's true. If you just have dreams and you never try to make them happen. Yeah. What's the point? What's the point? And that's what Phil said. So that was like everything about Phil ever. That really was. That was amazing. Thanks. Wow. It was really interesting because like I said, I didn't know anything about this case at all. Yeah. I mean, the true crime part is like really at the end. So it's mostly just like, who was Phil? Who was Phil Hartman? We love it. That was amazing. Thanks. Damn. So we hope that you keep listening. And we hope you. Keep it.

Weird. But that's where that you do that. Yeah. Don't do that. Bye.