Morbid - Listener Tales 50

Episode Date: September 5, 2022

Listener tales 50!!! OMG, you guys were lighting up our souls with the intro to these tales. Sometimes you just need a Monday pick me up and this was it. You delivered ghostly audio, capri sun mixed with french kissing and a cameo from a dad of one of our listeners!!! If you have a listener tale please send it into [e-mail] with Listener Tale somewhere in the subject line! Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. It's a big old morbid edition. Spook, spook, bitch. In fact, this one's going to be a two-parter. One-two. Hope you're ready.

Can you count two? I think you can. I think most all of you can. I feel confident saying that. And, well, this is the Canadian edition. Canada. A. So, and a lot of people have very,

requested this case, along with another Canadian case that we are going to cover, I want to promise everybody, because I think people were worried that since we're covering this one, we won't cover the other one. No, we're going to cover all of the cases. We got plenty of time. Until we die. Exactly. Until morbid meets a morbid end.

Which hopefully will be when we're like 200 years old. I don't want to live. You have a long time. You can. Well, today's case is the Ken and Barbie killers. Carla Halmoka and Paul Bernardo. The grossest humans this side of the Mississippi. Can I just say?

Ew. Yeah. At both of them. It's a real. This is one of those cases that a lot of people know about. A lot of people were like, oh, shit, I don't know if I can listen to this one because it's that bad. This one is right up there with the toy box killer. It's tough.

This is a tough one. Because it involves family. Yeah. And I just want to put it out there. if lots of sexual assault and rape is something you are not comfortable listening to. This is an entire episode about it. So we just want to let you know. I mean, I hope you stick around. But I get it if you don't. It's okay. We have plenty more. Skip an episode. It's totally fine. But if you're here, great. Hey, everybody listening still. You're brave. We'll let you know

when the super gnarly stuff is coming, by the way. So if you want to give it a shot and you're little weary about it. I'm going to let you know, like, this is going to get gnarly, guys. Should I say some, should I have like a word that I say, like a trigger warning word? I mean, I'm just going to say it's going to get gnarly guys, but. Not a code word. Like, it could just be like, hey. I mean, yeah. I'm going to do that every time something gets rough. So I'm going to say this is going to get gnarly, guys. And I'm going to say, hey, so I'm not going to do that. Just know that. But yeah, so this is a crazy case. Get ready.

and we really only have one piece of business we're going to get to because we're going to thank our patronses, our beautiful patronsons, tequilas. Tequillas. Our Don Julios. Yeah, you know. We're going to do that in Ashes minisode this week, which I believe will be coming out on Saturday, so keep up for that. Only piece of business is we've finally packed up your little gift packs,

patrons. So be on the lookout for those because we are sending them out. It's going to be Ash-centric. and Elena-centric, and you're going to open it, and love is going to fill your morbid house. Exactly. Okay. Okay. All right.

So, without further ado, Carla Leanne Hamoka, was born on May 4th, 1970 in Ontario, Canada. I like how you went southern with it, which is not how they speak in Canada. Ontario. You know us in Ontario. Ha! It's Canada. Ha. Canadians are like literally.

Go fuck yourself, Ash. We don't sound like that. Hey. Hey. We're just going to do that a lot. Just kill us later. Because also, by the way, we love Canadians. Yeah.

Just want to put that out there. We do. You guys are like the nicest people that's ever existed. You were obsessed with their prime minister for a time. For a time? I mean, hello, Justin Trudeau. But anyways, her mom's name was Dorothy Seeger, I believe. I don't know how to say that.

Liz. Yeah, you're right. And her dad's name was Karel, I believe is how you pronounce it. I think it was actually Carol. Cool. But I'm not positive. You might be right. I didn't look up pronunciation. It's K-A-R-E-L. I think it's Carol. I think I heard it that way, at least. Okay. So Carol was a Czechoslovakian immigrant. Cool. And he worked as a traveling salesman. So he was like away a lot. He also had a really bad drinking problem. They'll do. Really mean to her mom and to the kids. And he was like really verbally abusive.

Cool. So that's a really great start. Yeah, I mean, we're flying off the starting line right now. Yeah. Carla had two sisters and they kind of would just like run off into their rooms and like comfort each other when they were younger. But then when they got older, they kind of like fought back to their dad. But I'll get into that later.

Carla suffered from asthma from a young age, and she was actually hospitalized on and off throughout childhood. Pretty much any time she got too excited or scared of something, it would trigger an asthma attack. Oh, damn. Just a little sad fact. A little tidbit. Not like a fun fact. It's like... I mean, now, I'm super glad she suffers from asthma. I'd scare her all the time. Yeah. Boo! I would literally like stomp on all her inhalers right now. Yeah. Bitch. Growing up, she liked to read Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys, like mysteries like that. So did I. Oh, da, da, da.

If you ever read those, never had been to it again. Yeah. She was really bossy. She liked to boss around her friends. She would, like, always decide what games they were going to play, what activities to do. And she just, like, delegated everybody around her, like a big biotch. Which it's like, if you didn't know what she was going to be later, you'd be like, good for you, girl. Like, way to be a powerful woman and just, like, take charge.

But now it's like, fuck that bitch. Yeah, exactly. Like, why are you so bossy? Another not fun fact, one day she decided to make a parachute for her friend's hamster and they tossed it out the window. What? Obviously, the parachute didn't work and the hamster died. I am shocked. And then a couple weeks later, Carla decided to dig up the dead hamster to see what a decommosing body looked like.

Oh, girl. That's from a book. Oh, girl. Yeah, it's fucked up. So that's kind of like the first incident. I mean, again, if she didn't do horrible shit later, I'd be like, that's weird, but like, whatever. Yeah, but now, she did horrible shit later. But now it's getting, all these things are so much worse when you put them in context with what she does.

Into perspective and, like, Lee. But yeah, so that was like the first incident that kind of showed a side of Carla that was a little dark. Yeah, a little dark. It's also interesting, though, because Carla showed a huge love for animals from a really young age. I was going to say, I remember reading that. She had dreams of becoming a vet, and one of her first jobs was actually at a pet store. So then you wonder if like, I mean, who knows how old she was when she did that? Yeah, I don't exactly know.

Maybe she was young enough that she thought it was going to be an experiment. I don't know because kids are dumb and crazy. Yeah, they are really dumb. And like maybe she dug it up because she was interested in animals and she wanted to see what it happens later. But it's like, that's still weird. Yeah. I don't know if all vets started out that way. I don't think they did.

I'm going to bet $20 that they didn't. Yeah, I'm willing to bet they didn't. Yeah, no, I don't think so. But anyway, so yeah, in high school, people said that it was obvious Carla did not give a single shit what anybody thought of her. Friends said that she liked to yell swears just to get reactions on people or like pretend. Yeah, I don't even know. But she was to be a dick. Yeah. She fought with her parents a lot and she was super mouthy toward her parents. Like her friends were like, yeah, even I wouldn't be that. They're like chill girl. Yeah, like calm down. She didn't dress like the other kids. She didn't want to conform to like any like societal. norm or like social norm.

Which that's cool. Yeah. It is. Again, without the context. Yeah. I go, yeah. Totally. I suppose.

Our friends from high school remembered her having super high highs where she would talk about college and becoming a vet or even a police officer, which like, if you just ever, I'm just going to tell you to keep putting things into fucking perspective. And then later you're going to look back at all of this and be like, whoa. What? I'd be like, what, Carla? What's happening? But when she wasn't having her high ha, she would have her low lows. She would seem super depressed,

introverted. And she actually showed close friends a cut on her wrist where she claimed that she tried to kill herself. Oh, boy. And she had also claimed that she tried to OD on sleeping pills. So she talked a lot about wanting to kill herself and like showed people like cuts and stuff on her arms. Oh, okay. She definitely like had a lot that she was going through. Her friends were confused though by her personality changes and felt like her apparent suicide attempts were just like to get attention. Especially because she's like showing them off like batches of honor. And people also were like, she's like wicked full of herself. Like she thinks she's the shit. So like she's not going to kill herself. Yeah. Like that like that's how she came off. Yeah. Like I mentioned before Carla's parents

had a rocky relationship. Another fun fact. Um, her mom found out that her dad was having an affair one time and her like idea of solving it was that they just like have a threesome with his mistress. Whoa. Yeah. That is every dude who's ever had an affairs dream. Wildest dream. Literally. I was like, wow. Like, damn, Carla's mom. Yeah. But also it's like, you can kind of look at that and be like, is that where she got her idea of what was okay? Oh, I mean, if you're looking at that as like your model here. Yeah. Like some kids won't look at that as their model, but some kids take it in. as that's how I live.

That's how I need to live. When you think of everything else that she saw from her parents, she was like, oh, okay, this is fine. So yeah, that was rough. Yeah, so she was pretty angsty as a teen, obviously. Even though her parents had a rocky relationship, Carlo was pretty close with her dad, which is interesting because he was, like, pretty abusive

toward the whole family. But whenever she needed or wanted something, whenever she needed or wanted something, she asked him for it. But when they fought, it was, like, lethal. She and her sister Lori were known to yell at their dad, fuck off when fighting with him. And they would call him a dumb check all the time. Whoa.

That's how I say that right. Yeah. So, yeah. Damn. But, like, you have to think, like, I'm sure, like, their mom, like, yelled shit at the him too. Yeah, that's true. I mean, if you learn it, it's like, oh, geez. Crazy ass, sad ass.

What a family. House ass. Like, a house ass. When Carla wasn't in her woes, she was definitely very confident and interested. interested in flirting with dudes. Before Carla met Paul Bernardo, she dated a guy named Doug, and she said that they had sex and experimented with drugs together. Doug told his friends that they engaged in, like, pretty normal sex.

Yeah. But Carla told an elaborate story involving, like, heavy BDSM, like handcuffs, dog collars. And he's like, yo. And he was like, vervvvina. Vervina. Vervina. Vervinilla. Missionary is my preferred.

position. That's what Doug said. We should make a shirt that says. Yeah. Anyways. That's what Doug said. It says, vervina missionary is my favorite position. Dash, Doug. I love it. I love it. Anyways. And friends were alarmed to hear that from like a sweet young girl at Carla. They were like, damn, Carla. Again, they were all southern. I don't know why I keep doing that. Aside from enjoying your typical Nancy Drew mystery novel and casual hamster resurrection, Carlo was becoming more and more interested in the occult. She did typical shit with her friends like fucking burning candles and seances and trying to find Ouija boards. Same girl.

Yeah, literally re-fucking tree. I'm going to be on that one. And that's it. That's as far as we go together. I won't even go toward Ouija boards. Fuck that. I know. I won't even.

I did, though. I never did. I've never touched a Ouija board. I fucking refuse. And the day my dumbass kid, my dumbass future kid comes home with a goddamn Ouija board, they're evicted. I never had one, but I definitely did them at parties. You're evicted if you've done a Ouija board. All right. Future Kid, take note. Yeah. But Friends also report seeing small circles carved into her arms colored in with different nail polish. Whoa. And she wrote in a book, Michelle, remembers. That's like the title of the book. It's about like Satanism, sexual abuse, repressed memories. She wrote in the book, there is always something more left to say.

Whoa. Yeah. So. I wonder if she was sexually abused. I wonder. Obviously before she met Paul. Yeah. I didn't read anything about that. Yeah. I haven't read anything either, but I do wonder. I definitely wonder based on a lot of shit in this case. Like I'm not going to accuse anybody, but no, me either. But just. same. 100%. Maybe all these strange tendencies and seemingly darker fantasies are what made her so interested in Paul.

Maybe. So, Paul Bernardo was born August 27th, 1964 in Scarborough, Ontario to Kenneth and Marilyn Bernardo. Kenneth was a disgusting beast of a human. Yeah, he had a real bad childhood. Yeah. His childhood is actually, I don't excuse anything he did because of it, but it's really sad if he hadn't turned into a carbie.

human. But yeah, his dad was a beast of a human. If you can even refer to him as a human. Just human garbage. Yeah, not even human. Um, he faced charges for pedophilia, child molestation, being a peeping Tom, and he was also molesting Paul's sister. Jesus. Yeah. Guys. Uh, if that wasn't enough, he also verbally and physically abused the entire family. I'm shocked. And was horrible to Paul's mother. Um, he called her like every name in the book, like bitch, fat cow, horror. Sad, sad, mean names. We're really setting up some winners here.

For real. Paul's mom suffered from depression. Oh, crazy. I know. Why? Wow. I don't know if it was before or because of everything, but that definitely didn't help. Yeah.

And she tended to remove herself from the family. She would, like, go away with, like, for the weekend by herself to visit her family or, like, just she was, like, gone all the time. Oh. And eventually she moved into the. the basement of the family's home. Like, she moved to the basement. Oh, my Lord.

Interesting. Somehow, after all of that, Paul was described as pretty happy and normal. Adults thought that he would, like the adults around him, thought that he was like super well-mannered. Wow. He was a well-adjusted child. All right Ted Bundy.

His happiness and innocence took a turn at 16, a la Ted Bundy, when he learned that his father was not actually his biological father. and that his mother had an affair, which resulted in her becoming pregnant with. So, so one, the guy who he thought you was your father is like an awful pedophile child rapist, peeping Tom, wife abuser. Yep. And you're like upset that he's not your biological parent.

That's what I said. Because I'd be like, oh, mom, you had an affair? Good for you. Awesome. Yeah. Super glad I don't share that dude's DNA. Yeah. That just shows how fucked up.

Paul is from the get-go. Because I would literally be like, oh, thank God. Breathing a sigh of relief. I'd be like, no, none of that dude's DNA runs through my veins. That's great. I don't need it. Yeah. Great news. Pop the champagne. Paul was like, I'm mad and you're a whore and... Oh, so he already had that like women are the problem thing from the beginning. Yeah. Oh, Paul. Wonder where he learned that. Wonder. He started verbally abusing his mom and called her all the things that Kenneth did. and he called her a whore, a slob, and a bitch, and all those fun things. He started working at Amway after high school. He pretty much started using the sales tactics that he was learning to flirt with women.

Okay. So he would, like, practice his sales techniques at bars and, like, pick up women and bring them home. Except it didn't last very long with these women because he was a fucking psycho. He had super dark sexual fantasies. You don't say. Hi, Carla. He was abusive. I was like, hey.

She's like, me too. Did you hear about me and Doug? Doug's like, no. Vervanilla. Vervanilla. Vervanilla missionary. Carla. Ugh.

God. So he was abusive to these women and threatened to kill women if they ever spoke of what he did to them. Hey, cool. Yeah. Yeah. October 17th, 1987. Paul and Carla cross paths. Oh, the romance began.

She is 17. He's 23. and also a rapist, which Elena will get into. Sure will. The two meet at a hotel restaurant, and just a few short hours later, they are having sex in a hotel room. Oh, wow. True love. True love.

Live your best love. It's an instant connection for the absolute worst. Yeah, absolutely. They start dating in Carla's family fucking loves Paul. That's what I read. They're like obsessed with Paul. Yeah. Like, her sisters say that he was like the brother they always wanted.

Yeah, he's a true, like, psychopath, sociopath. He learned how to win everybody over. He lived, like, more than two hours from Carla, but he would, like, make the drive all the time and just, like, come over and visit her. What a gent. But all of that short-lived, because a year in, she tells her friends that he's already verbally abusing her. Cool. But she forgives him, and on December 24th, Christmas Eve of 1989, They become engaged at Niagara Falls.

Oh, snap. But he's already a rapist. He sure is, guys. He sure is. This is my friend Elena. Hey. I'm new. Be nice.

So I'm going to fill you guys in on all the terrible rapy things here. So things are about to get gnarly for a minute. Slightly gnarly. They're going to get even gnarlier after that. So just strap in everybody. Hold on to those butts. Hold on to your butt. Glue, super glue your butt together.

So by this point, by the time that Carla and Paul had met, had started dating, all that good, delicious romantic stuff. Romance. Paul was already a pretty well-established rapist. Great. Obviously, no one knew he was a rapist. But his crimes were being attributed to what the media and investigation in, police were referring to as the Scarborough Rapist. Scarborough Rapist.

Obviously, they didn't know as him, but, you know, they find out later, don't worry. So in 1987 is when he began really on this Scarborough Rapist path. Mind you, 1989 was when they were engaged. Yeah. So he had been a rapist for two years. Now, he began a series of up to 24 rapes or attempted rapes during a five-year period at this point. Insane. Yeah.

He mostly was after teen. age girls. He liked very young girls and very young women, basically. Most of the attacks happened outside, which is very odd. And I'm going to get into a couple of them. Obviously, I'm not going to name anybody. I'm just going to give you an idea of how these things happened. Okay. Tons of them happened outdoors and in very crazy, like, scary, spooky ways. But at least one time he did break into a victim's house and tried to rape her in her room. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. And I'll get into that. the attacks were also came along with beatings, intense verbal, you know, abuse. And then he would threaten the victim if you tell anyone about this.

I'm coming back here because usually he would do it around their house. And he even stole one girl's ID, right? Yeah. And he would do it around their house. So he knew where they lived. So he said, I'll come right back here and I'll murder you and your whole family if you say anything. That's so fucked. So that's why a lot of these people, a lot of them did report it, luckily, but some of them didn't

until way later. So I'm just going to go through a couple of these, a few of these, just to give you an idea of what a fucked-up monster he is. Great. May 4, 1987, he raped a 21-year-olds in Scarborough. He did it in the front of her parents' yard. Oh, my God. After he followed her home.

Wow. Like, literally raped her in front of her parents' house. May 14th, 1987, so only a few days later, raped a 19-year-old woman in the backyard of her parents' house. Jesus. Yep. July 17th, 1987, he attempted to rape a young woman, but he, like, beat the hell out of her, but she fought the hell back and he abandoned it. Shit. So good for that girl. I was going to say, you go girl. September 29th, 1987, he attempted to rape a 15-year-old girl. Ew.

He did this. This is the one that he broke into her home. Oh, my God. And he entered into her bedroom, a 15-year-old who's asleep. He jumped on her back, put his hair. hand over her mouth, threatened her with a knife, bruised the side of her face, and bit her ear. Oh, my God. He then, but he fled before he was able to do anything else because her mother came in the room and started screaming. Jesus Christ. See, hold on.

That girl would literally never go to sleep again. No. Like, how would you ever fall asleep again? The worst thing is with this one is a 19-year-old named Anthony Hannah Mayer was convicted of this crime in 1989 and he served a 16-month prison sentence. But he was exonerated after Bernardo admitted to this. Oh my God. So this poor guy got nailed for this. Yeah. May 25th, 1988, he was actually very close to being caught and it's like, oh, it's like so frustrating because so many lives could have been saved. He was almost caught by a uniformed Metro Toronto investigator who was staking out a bus shelter

because he had picked up another 15-year-old from like a bus stop. So they were staking out the bus stops. The investigator noticed him hiding under bushes. Like what the fuck? Pursued him and he got away. He like was just like too fast. Yeah, he was able to run away. Wow.

Isn't that crazy? In October 4th, 1988, he attempted another rape in Scarborough, but his victim fought him off. But he was able to stab her in the thigh and buttock and required, she required more than 12 stitches. Oh, my God. So he wasn't afraid to actually stab people. already. Like, he was not, if you were going to fuck with him, he was going to kill you. He just didn't do it yet. November 16th, 1988, he raped an 18-year-old woman in the backyard of her parents' house. November 17th, 1988 is when the Metro Police finally formed a task force to get the Scarborough

rapist. In 1989, around August, he raped a 22-year-old woman that he had stalked her outside of her apartment window the night before and then waited for her to come home. Are you serious? Yes. That's terrifying. Like he BTKed it. Literally. Yeah. Fuck BTK.

So in 1990, May 26, 1990, he raped another 19 year old woman, but his victim had a very vivid recollection of what he looked like. Yes. And they were able to, the police were able to create a computer composite portrait of him. They released it two days later by the police. They published it in Toronto, all the Toronto area newspapers all over the news and they got around 16,000 responses to it and three of those responses were from people who

said it was Paul Bernardo in that portrait. Investigators did question Bernardo twice because he lived in his parents Scarborough home at the time. Right. He was interviewed November 20th, 1990. It only lasted about 35 minutes. He voluntarily provided samples for forensic testing. Yeah. That's scary. He was balzy. When they asked Bernardo why he, he thought he was being investigated for this, he said that, I guess I look like the picture. Wow. Like, he just was, what a, like, he was fearless with this. Like, he was like, sure, you can have my semen.

And then he was like, yeah, sure, I look like the portrait. Like, he was not at all. Well, because in his mind, he probably was like, I'm never going to get caught because he's a fucking psychopath. Because he was like, yeah. And probably a narcissist. The detective said he was super credible and they believed him. So he was released.

That's so scary to me. And again, they took samples of his hair, blood. and saliva for DNA testing, which you'd be like, okay, well, they can nail him right away. How did they not? Well, this was back in 19, what was it? 1990. This was 1990 when they brought him in. DNA testing was super new in Canada.

They only, the Center of Forensic Sciences in Toronto only had one qualified scientists and one technician that could do this. So the samples taken were among dozens of other samples that they had taken to compare to the Scarborough Rapist case. And I think they had around like 50,000 samples collected at this time. So it just took a long time. He just kind of got put in the backlog and they were making their way through. Right. It's crazy, though, that he was like, yeah, I'm going to get away with this. Like, they're going to test it eventually, dude.

He didn't give a shit. But whatever. So, like Asht said, Carla's family fucking loved Paul. They really fucking did. Especially her sister, Tammy, who was her younger sister at the time. She was around 15 years old. She really loved Paul. Paul took a special liking to her as well.

Because he's a fucking pervert. Now, at this point, he had lost his job as an accountant and was actually working smuggling cigarettes across the Canada, United States border. Wow. His family, her family did not know about this. But, like we said, Paul had a very weird obsession and infatuation with Tammy. Gross. In 1990, Paul started to pressure Carla to allow him to have sex with Tammy.

What? You know, normal relationship issues, right? No. Your, you know, your fiancé at the time is just like, you know, I'd love it if you would let me have sex with your younger sister. Like, what the fuck, dude? That really grosses me on on like a whole, like a galactic level. So this, just again, another warning, this is about to get real gnarly. So get, get ready.

Oh, this stress is, this case is so fucking stressful. Now, one of the main issues that was in their relationship, because Carla was all about pleasing Paul. Right. Carla would do anything he wanted. They established, like, a sub-d-dom kind of relationship pretty early on, and she was fully the sub. Doug was not into it. No, Doug was ver vanilla, and Paul was like, let's do this. Paul was for not vanilla.

She called, Carla called Paul, like her king, all that stuff, like, treated him like a king, like whatever he wanted he got. Yeah. So she was all about pleasing him. That's all she lived for. And one of the things that he was really upset about was that Carla had had sex with Doug before they met. So she was not a virgin. Shit.

And he was real upset about that because he had a real thing for taking girls virginity. Like what? Because Paul is a fucking splatter on the canvas of life. That's what he is. That's funny. He's a shit splatter on the canvas of life. Yo, Paul, you a shit stain. are shit splatter, Paul. Now, obviously at this point, we're in 1990, he loved taking

girls' virginity, usually without their consent. Yes, I was going to say. Let's be real about this. He had a real knack for that. He did have a knack for that. So Paul was so infatuated with Tammy that he would make Carla dress up as Tammy and act like her during sex. Yo, that's like, I would like, Carla did it. What? Like Carla did it. This is her little sister, and she's like, sure. You need So much family counseling. So much. So much. Honestly, you need euthanasia, but... And she still needs euthanasia.

Like, this is bonkers. He also took to watching Tammy undress outside of her window. And Carla, always wanting to please Paul, would actually leave windows open and broke Tammy's shade so that he would have better access to do this. Are you kidding? And he would literally stand out there and jack it. Ew.

And Carla would, like, help him. I don't want to know any of this information. What is the human race, everybody? What are we? What's happening? Where did we go wrong? I don't get this. So this was, to Carla, this was her way of giving him Tammy and hoping that he would be satisfied with this.

That's so horrific in and of itself. Because remember, he was pressuring her to have sex with her, to take her virginity. So she was like, maybe I'll just do this and he'll be satisfied. But it's like, nope. He wasn't. No. Like, spoiler. I was just going to say, spoiler alert.

Shott, breaking news, he was not. Oh, God. Now, weird little side note in July, he took Tammy across the border to get beer for a party, and Bernardo later told Carla that they, quote, got drunk and began making out. Uh-oh. And Carla was like, okay, cool. I'm surprised. I'm, like, I don't even know if I'm just surprised he didn't rape her.

I know. I think he was trying to groom her. Yeah. To get, I don't think he wanted to force. do it. I think he wanted it to be like easy. Yeah. As we'll see. So this is when she was like, all right, I'm going to give Paul Tammy's virginity. Because it's obviously hers to give, right? Yeah, totally. Yeah, obviously. At this point, Carla was working at a vet clinic because she loves animals so much guys. Remember, she's such a great person. So weird. So she had access to all kinds of tranks,

sedation methods and, you know, stuff they use on animals. Yeah. Not humans. So in July of 1990, she stole a bottle of Valium from the clinic in order to sedate her sister to give her to Paul. That's really fucked up. On this particular night in July, she made Tammy a plate of spaghetti, which was apparently something she did often for her younger sister because Carla was such a great big sis. Totally. But this was not the typical plate of spaghetti because this one contained a dose of the Valium. Oh, shit.

So Tammy went out cold because Valium will fuck. up in being enough. And Paul was able to begin to rape her while Carla watched. She watched. Oh, yeah. Oh, she does much worse later. That was really Canadian, I feel. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, that was more. That was Minnesota. Yeah. Yeah. I'm everywhere here. I know there's more later, but I didn't know that she watched. There's much worse later. Well, I did know that, but I don't know. So, but unfortunately for them, Tammy woke up because Valium will not knock you out cold for too long. So she woke up. up, but by that point, Paul had, like, removed himself from the situation. So they just pretended everything was fine. They were like, oh, yeah, like, weird, you fell asleep. You're crazy. Weird that I'm in bed with you. Yeah, totally fine. Over that same summer, he said, it was said that he supplied Tammy

and her friends with gifts, food, and soft drinks. And her friends said that it was weird because the soft drinks had, quote, a film and a few white flex on the top. So pretty sure he was trying to drug all those girls. Oh, my God. Yep. Now, they put a pin in this one for a while, but he wanted more. Yeah. So in December 1990, on Christmas Eve, which they got engaged in 89 on Christmas Eve, right? So a year into their engagement to the day. Now, six months before their wedding, by the way, they put another plan into action.

The whole family was over. They had a one over the Hamoka's house. They had a great Christmas dinner. They were celebrating. Paul had his famous video camera out and he filmed a ton that night because you know this tool bag loves to take videos of stuff as we'll see once the whole family went off to bed

Paul and Carla told Tammy that she should hang with them for a bit and watch a movie. Now they all went down to the furnished basement and they offered her some rum and eggnog so some spiked eggnog and if anyone is a little sibling who is listening right now you know that like all you want to is to hang out with your cool older sister or brother.

And especially if they have like a cool girlfriend or boyfriend that you love. And I was a younger sibling, you know, so like I get it. All you want is to be like cool with them. And like included. And you're 15 years old and they're like you want some spiked eggnog. You're going to be like, yeah, I do. Like you think you can trust these people. It's your older sister.

And her boyfriend who you love. Poor Tammy, man. Well, so Tammy was super into it. Well, Carla laced that drink with halifane. Which is. Which is a much stronger. It's used for anesthesia for like dogs. Oh, my God.

And obviously when they use it for anesthesia and dogs, it's pretty well dosed. Right. You know, it's dosed for the weight, for the breed, for the type, you know, everything. But Carla didn't know what the fuck she was doing. No, and this wasn't dosed. This was just, here's a shit ton of halethane. Halithane also is like it decompresses your like airways and stuff if you take too much. Like, it's a really intense drug.

I looked up a bunch of stuff about it. There's a lot, shit ton about it, but it's a really intense drug. You shouldn't be shoving it in someone's face. Just don't do it. So Tammy soon went on... Just don't do it, guys. Yeah, don't do that. So Tammy soon went unconscious.

And this is where things get really bad. Really bad. So this is when Paul began raping Tammy while Carla filmed it on the video camera. Which is beyond fucking human comprehension. And this is the same video camera and the same. same tape that they just filmed Christmas on. Like, and investigator said it literally goes from Christmas celebration to raping an unconscious Tammy.

That's insane. Now, so just know, Carla is just as bad as Paul. Oh, she's worse. You will see, this bitch should not be out right now, which by the way, she's out. Yeah. Anybody listening in Canada, I'm sure you know that she is out. Now, all the while, whenever Tammy would kind of like stir awake, because she had just been dosed with it, they would hold a halithane soaked cloth over her face to knock her back out. So they were just like re-dosing her.

She had just ingested it, and now she's inhaling it in her airways. This whole thing was filmed. It wasn't just Paul raping Tammy. Oh, uh-oh. Paul would rape Tammy. Then he would encourage Carla to rape Tammy, so he would take him. take the video camera and he filmed her raping her younger sister who is unconscious. Ew, ew.

And they took many turns. It is all on film and it was used against, well, mostly against him later. But yeah, they're fucking monsters. That made me like actually nauseous. Eventually, Tammy began vomiting and started to aspirate on her own vomit because no one was fucking helping her. she's just laying there being brutalized and she's choking on her own vomit. So Paul and Carla, instead of trying to help her, just got her dressed, cleaned her up and called 911.

What? Oh, and brought her up to her room to make sure that it wasn't weird that she was down there. That she was in the basement. So Tammy had a gnarly chemical burn on her face from the halithane being pressed onto her face with the cloth. Like, crazy burns. Like, there's autopsy photos. of Tammy Hamoka, and I've seen them. I'm sure a lot of people have their, like, part of the case.

They're intense. I mean, one whole side of her face is just a red blotch. Oh, my God. It's insane. So obviously, you would think that when the, like, ambulance people, when the EMTs and when the police said, they'd be like, uh, what's that about? They would be like, uh, it's a fucking chemical burn. Right.

They both just claimed they were like, oh, she got drunk and crazy. crazy and you know like that's how she started choking on her own vomit because she just was super drunk and the niagara regional police asked them about the burn mark and bernardo said that it was a carpet burn that she got when he dragged her into her bedroom and they were like oh okay and they were just like oh okay like what that's clearly a chemical how they didn't realize that was a chemical like how the pathologist didn't be like hey. Apparently they'd have their best people on on Christmas. That just blows my mind that they just let that go.

Yeah, that's wild. I mean, that is some fucked up shit right there. They should have looked at that. It was on her, like, lips and on her cheek. It's crazy. I would say I'm going to post pictures from this case like we always do. I might post a photo of that for anybody who does want to see it. I will put a warning before that photo, so it won't be just you flicking through

and you're going to see it if you don't want to. Yeah. So don't worry. But it's crazy. So she was rushed to St. Catherine's General Hospital and was pronounced dead right when she got there. Her death was ruled an accident despite the copious amounts of evidence to the contrary. And how did they not find the, what was that drug called? Halothane.

That wasn't found in her system? No idea how none of this was found. Like what? Yeah. And maybe who knows, I don't even know. I don't know if they did a full autopsy, if they did a talk screen. because they wouldn't have found it if they didn't do a talk screen. And if they're just saying, yeah, she just drank a lot on her sister, what the hell.

They might not have asked for it. So it's just, it's bonkers. Now this is where things get even crazier. If that's even humanly possible. Crazy. Three weeks after Tammy Hamoka's death, Carla and Paul filmed a video that is now referred to as, quote, the fireside chat.

They did this in the Homoka House. The video was viewed as court. evidence. And so the poor people, the poor jurors had to, like, listen to this. And it's, there's a transcript of it online. Maybe I'll post that somewhere so you guys can read it if you want to. No, thanks. I just want to put it out there in case anybody, because I know I said everything about the toy box killer transcript and people wouldn't found it. So, uh, I'll put it out there if you want to. It's pretty crazy. It starts in the basement where, where they killed, Timmy died. Yeah. And the two of them,

are naked and are laying in front of the fire. And they're, you know... I don't think I've ever heard this part. Doing various sex acts while Carla literally says multiple times how much she loved watching him rape Tammy. And that she loved raping Tammy. And it's graphic as fuck. This Carla is a scary, scary lady.

And so is Paul. They're both... I mean, terrifying. Like, what happens in the human brain? And she also says that she loved watching him rape the other young girl a few days before that. So she's already implicating that he's done this before. She then says she wants to do that for him every weekend and get him all the virgins he wants. What?

She even says, and this is awful, so get ready. Hey! Narnly stuff coming up. She even says she wants four kids with him so he can rape them all. Whoa. Yep. Like actually, and is saying this in like a sexy kitty voice as she's like performing Felacio. What the fuck? Yep. Yep. Then she takes a long stem, and there's a lot more to it, but then she takes a long stemmed red rose and puts it all over his naked body.

Then says she wants to leave this rose at Tammy's grave because it's been all over his intimate places and it would give him pleasure to leave it at her grave. after that. So she was real sorry about what happened to Tammy. I am having an anxiety attack on air. Maybe we need a pallet cleanser. I need to be done. This is your pallet cleanser with Annie. I've been to Disney World 11 times.

My favorite ride is Splash Mountain. This has been your pallet cleanser with Annie. So if that wasn't bad enough, guys. I want to go home. At some point, the filming of... this fireside chat, moved into Tammy's bedroom. Tammy's room? Yep. Were they at Carla's house?

Yeah, they were at the home local residence. Remember because they were in the basement where it happened. Oh, fuck. Paul goes into this weird, like, soliloquy about how much he loves Tammy and calls her his baby, taking all these, like, shots of pictures of her in her room. And he's saying, like, hi, Tammy. Love you, Tammy. Bye.

And then Carla shows up in the frame, dressed up in Tammy's clothing, pretends to be her, and even talks in her voice. Excuse you? Yep. And says things like, I hope Carla doesn't find out about us and shit. And then they eventually have sex on Tammy's bed. No, no, no. Is it over? Are we done with part one?

Almost. No. I need a palate cleanser again. It's pretty rough. Are you fucking, where were her, where was her family? Like, where was the sister? I mean, I think they were just like away at some point. So. Yeah.

Yep. And the poor jurors had to watch this. How did she not die in prison? Because she didn't get enough time to, I don't think. This whole Tammy situation obviously gave them a taste not only for sexually assaulting and raping young girls, but also killing them. Yeah. And it felt like they had to.

It seems like their criteria for whether or not someone lived was whether or not they could identify them at this. point. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So they decided to start using Carla. Like, she offered to lure young girls for them to rape. Like she said in the video, I want to do this for you. Someone should just punch her in the

face every single day multiple times a day until she dies. Luckily, I think people make her life pretty miserable. She has to move, like, everywhere. Do that good. Trust me. Again, we'll get into that later because we'll give you the whole shebang on where she is right now. But, so Carla, before

she worked at the vet clinic, worked at a pet store. When she worked at the pet store, I think it was like two years before that, she kind of befriended this girl who was 15 years old who worked there. Normal. On June 7, 1991, she invited the girl who is only referred to as Jane Doe. She invited her out for a girl's night out. They went out, they went shopping, they had dinner. And then Carla was like, hey, do you want to come back to my house and we can have some drinks and just hang out? Because you would never fucking think that's weird.

I can't even tell you how many times I've done that. Exactly. And it's like, and it's a girl. It's another girl. It's another woman that you'd feel like you're like, I've worked with her. I've worked with her. So she laced her alcohol with Halloween. And when the girl lost consciousness, she called Bernardo and said, hey, I have a surprise

wedding gift for you. Come over. He got there. They undressed Jane Doe and, Paul videotaped Hamoka raping her first. And then he raped her. Now, the next morning, Jane Doe woke up and she was throwing up. She was nauseated.

She was sick from the halifane. But she thought it was because that was the first time she had ever drank alcohol. Oh, my God. Which how sad is that? Yeah. So she had no idea that she had been sexually assaulted. And she just thought that she had like a cool girl fun night. Yep.

She thought she had a cool girl fun night. And she was like, yeah, it's the first time I drank alcohol. Oh my God. Yep. Now Jane Doe left, none the wiser. She was invited back in August to spend the night. And they did basically the same thing they did at Tammy again. And Jane Doe stopped breathing after she was drugged and after Paul had began to rape her. So it was basically the Tammy thing. Carla called 911 because she stopped breathing and she was like, oh shit. But then. Then called back a few minutes later and said, Everything's all right because they had revived her. The ambulance was called back and there was no follow-up. That's totally fucking standard. But what the fuck?

Was that the last time they fucked with her? That was the last time they fucked with her. Now, this is just a little side thing. In 2001, the magazine Elm Street published an article that they kind of implied that forensic evidence said that tampernizabeth. Mommy's death was definitely not an accident. Like that not that I'm saying, you know what I mean? Like that it was intentional on Carla's part.

Like she wanted to kill her sister. Yeah. That this wasn't like, whoops, we overdosed you? They said that she deliberately administered an overdose of halifane. And the magazine said that Carla was, quote, a malignant narcissist who was so pissed off that Paul was so fucking infatuated with her younger sister and not her. That she had to get rid of her.

That she had to remove Tammy from the, equation. Oh, my God. It makes fucking sense. It makes total sense. And it's like, but then she continues to dress up as her and everything. But maybe it's like now she doesn't have to worry about Tammy being the thing. Right.

She can just roll play. And she's so psychotic that it's her. Exactly. So I just thought that was like an interesting, because I believe that. Oh, I 100% believe that. Because as a vet, if she was a veterinary assistant, a vet tech, she would know what it takes. She was working in a vet office at all, she would know that what she was giving her was an overdose. I'm sure she wouldn't know the exact dosage because you would have to, you know.

Study that. It translated into human dose, too, from animal dose. Yeah. But you know that, like, if you're giving this much to a 30-pound dog, 110-pound, like, I don't know how much she weighed, but, like, she was 15. Like, 110-pound girl, you're not going to give the same dose to, but it's like you're also not going to give her like 40 times that dose. You know what I mean?

It's like, so I think she knew what she was doing. And I do believe that she would want to remove her sister and that it would be no skin off her back. And she would probably know that she was going to burn her fucking face. Oh yeah. She would definitely, because you would know that you don't fucking put that right on top of skin. Like I'm sure, well, I'm sure they would have to, when they administered it, like wear gloves and shit. Exactly. I'm sure they knew like don't spill that.

And that they didn't put it directly on the animal's skin either. Exactly. they probably did it in some kind of intubation kind of thing. Yeah. So that was interesting. But we're going to stop here for part one. Bye. And we will take it back up next week with part two, where we will talk about the brutal rape and murder of Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffey.

Oh, you know what's weird? I have some sick time that I haven't used yet. So I'm going to use that for next week. Oh, yeah? Yeah. The sick time for the morbid podcast. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to have to say no to that sick time request.

Sorry. I'm sick that day. I'm really sick that day. I know I'm going to be. You know what? I think we're all going to be really sick that day. Yeah, and I think so too. I'm pretty sick this day.

So yeah, so this was a doozy, guys, and it's only going to get worse. No. So stick with us. We're going to get through this together. We're all going to hold hands. We got through the toy box killer together. We're going to get through this. No, I think this is worse.

I think it's worse in like a different way. I think I think it's as bad. They're on different planes. Yeah. They're on the same wavelength. Yeah, I don't think one is worse. But different, different ends. Different wavelengths of bad.

It's because it's like family. Yeah. And Carla is just, I mean, Paul is a fucking monster. I'm not letting him off a fucking way. She's a monster in a different fucking way, though. But they're just too. You raped your sister for your man. Yeah, nothing's good about this. And just as a little side note, we will be hitting Robert Pickton, which is the other Canadian serial killer case.

That a lot of people want to hear. I promise we're going to hit that one. It's on our list. We just wanted to hit this one first. So fear not Canadian listeners. And yeah, so I think we all got through this together and we're going to get through part two. In the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram at Morbid Podcast. You can tweet. A morbid podcast. Send us a Gmail. Morbid Podcast at gmail.com. Donate to our fucking Patreon. Patreon.com slash morbid podcast. If you feel so inclined.

Your Facebook group. Morbid, colon, a true crime podcast. And go check out the website that my lovefully co-host so beautifully designed at. Morbidpodcast.com. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. I don't want to make this one funny Hold on, I'm thinking

But not so weird that when you find out you're adopted You start to verbally abuse your mom Just like your dad did And not so weird that like Carla Homoca is your spirit animal And not so weird that you want to be like Carla Hormoka Or Paula Moka because I don't even want to say anything more About these people that I have to go now by Yeah

Because this one isn't funny guys It's not funny It's not funny Sorry Well none of them are No but this one's like real not funny Bye