Morbid - Listener Tales 65

Episode Date: January 20, 2023

Listener Tales 65 is brought to you SAY IT WITH ME.....by you, for you, from you and all about YOU! This installment has a new fun(?) theme of NASTY NEIGHBORS. We've got tales of neighbors showing up unannounced to drop their kids off without prior plans to do so, neighbors breaking into your apartment, and neighbors punching your houseguests in the face! It's a wild ride. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. It's a super crazy morbid in here. Yeah, we're here. We're here. We're morbid and we're freaking out because we have a show at the Gramercy this week. Oh, my God.

The fact that we have a show at the Gramercy in four days, like I think I'm shitting my pants at this very moment. Yeah. No, I'm not. I hope she's not. That's really disgusting. We're in a small long. dream room right now. I'm figuratively shitting my pants, not literally. Yeah, it's crazy. So see you fucking in four days, New York? Well, currently right now. Anyways from now, we will be at the Gramish Sea

Theater in New York and I'm so excited. Holy balls. Hold on to your butts, New York. Hold on to you booties. And then after that, we have like a little hiatus. And then we're going to be a little hiatus. A little me time, little shoo-shoo me time. It's always really hard for me to get out of Margie's voice. I know it is really hard. Except I'm a still. It's really hard. It's really hard. Well, so after that, in April, we're going to be at the Punchline Comedy Club in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. We're going to be there. Am I screaming? Am I too loud? You might be. Okay, cool. I'm not. So then April 15th, the very next day, we're going to be at the DC Improv in Washington, D.C. I'm so excited to see things in D.C. I've never been. Nor have I. And Annie's coming with us, and she's been like 47 times so she can show us things. Yes, Annie. Anna. Then May 6th, we're going to be at Stand Up Live, except I think I'll be sitting down in Huntsville, Alabama. We sure will, and I'm super excited for that.

And then May 7th, we have two shows, and early and a late show in Nashville, Tennessee. Going to Nashville. Yeah, yeah. Going to get some white buffalo sauce. Rock and roll. That's what John told me I have to do. So I'm going to do it. Let's do it.

And then our new little baby show, which is not a baby show, it's pretty big, but that just got added. June 12th, my birthday weekend in case you were wondering. Just saying. Talia Hall, Chicago, Illinois, which all of these places look really beautiful, but like Chicago, Talia Hall looks like gorgeous. Talia Hall looks haunted as fuck and I'm here for it. I feel like Marie Antoinette has been there. I don't think she has.

But, you know, I think that she's from France. Let's just set that record straight. I did know that. I think it was necessary to set that straight. Yeah. No, I know that. But I'm just saying like it looks like a place that she would have enjoyed. It's like for sales

Listen, I am not Brittany from And guys, I know it's pronounced for Sae. Okay, yeah, this is a joke. This is a Bravo joke. And if you don't watch Bravo, you don't get it. It's an inside joke. But watch Vanderpump Rules. It's a great show.

Why wouldn't you? Do it. It's on tomorrow. So, yeah, it's going to be awesome. And in the week of May 3rd, is it? Yeah, it's the first week. We're going to be doing CrimeCon in Orlando.

And I am so excited for that. I want to see all your beautiful faces, and I want to see all the people who I'm going to hyperventilate in front of. Yeah, me too. If Keith Morrison is there, I'm going to hyperventilate. I was just listening to the Dateline podcast today. I hope he's going to be there. His voice is so beautiful, and like he's not saying anything boring, but I just like want to fall asleep to it. It's just wonderful.

It's like a warm, soothing fire. Well, and they just said that Dr. Baden is going to be there. And Elena lost her mind. I can't. I might hyperventilate in front of him. I'll be able to mess. I'd ask him a bunch of questions. I'll provide you a paper bag.

Please do. Because then, I mean, who else? You're excited to see Nancy Grace if she's there. I'm not going to hyperventily. I'll probably just do what I did to Andrew McMahon when I met him when I was 14 and scream. I love you. I love you directly into her face. Well, and you know, Billy Jensen and Paul Holes better be there.

I'm just saying. I feel like Billy Jensen is kind of our friend. I feel like he is. You're listening, right, Billy? Billy. Right, Billy? Billy. You're listening.

We're friends. If you don't think we're friends yet, we will. be someday. We will. So just hang tight, Billy. Cool. All right. So everybody come to CrimeCon. It's going to be awesome and spooky and crimey. And come to all our shows. Do it. Please do. Because we want to see your faces and we want to

meet you and we want to tell you true crime stories. Yeah. And you can find the link in our Instagram bio to the link tree that has all of our shows on it or you can go to morbidpodcast.com and they're all listed right there. Just click on the link and it will bring you to the ticket sites. Click on it. Do it.

So, We are going to be, this is going to be at least a two-part series. I wasn't initially intending that. But holy shit, guys, this case is crazy. And this case is really heavy. So I'm going to give a heavy trigger warning in the beginning of it because, whoa. Trigger warning. We're going to be covering this in a couple of parts because we are covering the case of actual piece of human pus in a source.

in a scrotum bag. Ooh. Ariel Castro. He's like the toenail that I saw today on my feet are killing me on TLC. Yep. That's what he is. He is everything disgusting that you can think of in the world. And he is known for kidnapping three young women and holding them in his Cleveland

House of Horrors for 10 years. That's almost like scarier than like anything. Yeah, like I'm terrified already. It totally is. That's my reaction, okay? That's like scarier than like anything. It's scarier than many things. It's scarier than all the things.

Sorry, I'm not fully functioning right now. It's a day, all right? It's fine. So what we're going to do is I would like to say, I'm not going to give you the information about Ariel as a human being. right up front. We'll talk about him in part two. Because who gives a fuck about him? Not me. We're going to talk about the girls that fucking survived this shit. Bad ass motherfuckers. Because holy shit, guys. So we're going to start out with the first person that was kidnapped and that is Michelle Knight. Okay. Michelle Knight has legally changed her name since this. I believe that. To Lily Rose Lee.

And I think it's because she, and I think she is actually distanced. She used to, obviously they would have the three of these women together a lot to talk about their experience. She's kind of distanced herself a little bit from the other two. And not because, and she says, like, I love them. They love me. We experience this together. Right. For my health, I need to distance myself from this experience a little bit.

Well, and it's like you got through it and, like, you probably don't want to talk about it for the rest of your life. You want to live your life. And then maybe they'll come back together again. Like, I think she's not being like, I never want to speak to them again. But she's like, I think I need to get myself right and, like, get past this before we can keep. heal myself a little bit. Right. Because Michelle, all these women got it absolutely horrifically.

The experience was equally as traumatizing and awful. Michelle just happened to be like his punching bag a little bit more from what it seems like. Yeah. He definitely seemed to like favor the other two more. By favor. Like favor in a fucked up way. I mean, not favor as in a human way. You know what I mean?

Yeah. As favorable as he could be. Like maybe he didn't like, maybe he gave them one less beating or one less like, rape that night. You know what I hate that? Which is not favoring at all, but in this relative situation. So I got a lot of this information from Michelle's book. It's called Finding Me a Decade of Darkness, a Life Reclamed.

And it's a memoir of the Cleveland kidnappings. Okay. It is awesome. Go read it. It's, there's parts of it that are. really hard to read, but her story is unbelievable. So Michelle Knight was the first one to be kidnapped. She was kidnapped on August 23rd, 2002. So her story really gets to me because it's really hard to believe that one person can suffer in their life as much as she has. Oh. She just couldn't catch a

break. She couldn't catch a break from the get-go. I hate when like, I hate when that happens to anybody, but then when it happens to like a victim of something so awful, you're like, why can't you just have something good to happen for you. Why does she get all this shit? Right. Like what does one person have to endure all this? That's what's crazy to me. Um, she's four foot seven inches tall at her tallest. Like she even as like a 21 year old woman. Shut up. She's very tiny. Um, she was actually her nickname was Shorty. Love it. And my nickname was peanut. I literally, my entire life. I almost just said isn't yours peanut, but then I didn't want to outs to you like that. And, um, yeah. Yeah. So I, I totally feel her on that.

She's a remarkable human. She really is. So she grew up in extreme poverty, like right from the jump. Her family once lived in a station wagon for over a year. Oh, my God. She lived with her parents in this station wagon, a cousin, I believe, and her two twin brothers, Freddie and Eddie. Oh, my God.

Yeah. They moved all over. They didn't even have showers or anything. The things that most of us take for granted they didn't have. She did say that, like, when they were able to. to like shower or like brush their teeth, which was very rare. Oh my God. She made sure to make sure her siblings were like got a really good clean because she was like

I didn't know when we were going to get it again. So I made sure to brush their teeth really well. Like she became like their like caretaker. I love that. Yeah. So right from the get go she was having to like take sacrifice for other people. So you like you grow up at a really young age when something like that happens. And this is what bums me out.

And we're going to see more and more in this case especially. it's like she wasn't allowed to have a childhood. No, that sucks. That's not a childhood. That sucks. Whenever I see that, because I just think of my kids and how I want them to be kids so badly, and I want them to have, like, all the things that kids should have, which is like, innocence, like curiosity, no, not a care in the world. You know what I mean? Like, you should have that as part of your life. Like, not know, like the struggles of real life. Kid life should not be real life. You should have a point in your life as a kid, like a big

stretch of time where just you don't have a care in the fucking world. Like everyone should have that. Not everybody gets that. And that's a bummer. So when they did get homes, because every once in a while, they would move into homes, it was very sporadic. They were always in terrible neighborhoods. Oh. Like with, like, you know, drug dealers and just, like, violence all around them.

And then a male family member. Oh, no. So they used to have, like, strangers living in their house, roommates, random family members. Because they were probably trying to, like, make. extra money off of like renting space exactly so a male family member began sexually abusing her when she was just five years old oh my god yeah uh she was also bullied in school because she was really tiny she was poor she was often dirty right like all this stuff that you can't fucking control i was gonna say everything beyond her control so um in an article in newsweek she said of her childhood

quote it's like i was buried six feet under and screaming and no one can hear a thing my God. Like, that is awful. That's really horrible. It just really bummed me out. I was like, what the fuck? Um, so when she was 15 years old, she just had fucking enough. Yeah, I believe it. Like, because this male family member sexually abused her her entire adolescent. Like, she was turning 15 and was still being raped by him. Oh, my God. Yeah. And you, that's, you don't have a childhood. No, she's, yeah. And it's like she was living in this abusive home, super poor. I mean, like, having to take care of everything herself. It doesn't seem like there was like an ounce of happiness.

No, nothing. So she ran away from home. Yeah. And she ended up sleeping in a garbage canned under an underpass. Oh my God. Yeah. Like she was so tiny she could like curl up in a garbage can. Mm-hmm.

She said even this was far superior to the life she had at home. Wow. Yeah. At one point and this like gave my, this like made my heart sore for a minute, guys. My heart is really sore currently. So at one point, she said this tall black man, approached her. And at first she was like, well, like, because she was very, she was very, like, protective of anybody coming near her. Because she knew, all she had known her whole life was, like,

people are going to hurt me. And, like, taking things from her. So she sees this guy and she's like, what the fuck. He ended up being, like, a pastor at a Baptist church. Stop. And she said she called him Arsenio because of Arsenio Hall, because he had the same, like, haircut as a Cinio Hall. And so she ended up referring to him as that he approached her and was, like, worried about her. Yeah. And said, we have meals at the church, like come to the church, we'll feed you. I'm sobbing. And so she started coming like weekly to the church and like eating food there. She started like knowing people in the church. She said it was like this great time and she would like people treated her so well. And like he was like her angel. Stop. So like high five. You're catching me on an off day. I'm going to cry on the podcast. No,

it's so funny. Not funny. But like when I was researching this, there was a point where I was literally tearing up. Yeah. I believe you. And I was like, oh no. I'm. I might cry on the podcast today. Like there might be a time. This might be the day. So one day, so she's feeling like a little better about she's still like, you know, sleeping where she can sleep. She's still homeless.

And life is going to say fuck you again. Well, no. Oh, okay. It actually gave her another. It's a boost. It's bringing her up to bring her back down. Some people might not see this as a boost, but like look past the like optics of this and just look at what happened.

Okay. So one day, a young man who introduced himself as sniper. Love it. Approached her as well and said, you know, I see you. I see that you're homeless. Like, I want to help you. And so he offers her a room. And he says, the only thing I need you to do is be a drug runner for me.

Oh. So she's like, okay. He was apparently super nice. Yeah. Never tried to hurt her. Good. Never tried to do anything. He gave her, he actually gave her a Glock 22 to protect her.

Yo, sniper. What's good? And he introduced her to someone else who was living in the house. too, who was a kid named Roderick, who I think was about the same age, maybe a little older than she was. And they became super close. Like she said, we became like brother and sister. Like, it's like you're like built a family. Yeah.

Like he's in like, I guess sniper was super nice. Like they became her brothers. Like her family. She said neither one of them ever tried anything with me. There was nothing romantic about it, nothing sexual. Yeah, but they were like her brothers. Nothing nefarious. They were literally just like.

two drug runners for this guy sniper but sniper like took care of them whatever and it's like you know live your life it's it's like honestly she was going to the church she had friends there she was feeling at home there she was feeling at home in this place i mean could be worse you know it really could it's not hurting anybody i can't get too mad at that um and again and he was paying her like yeah doing this stuff so it's like she had friends she felt like she was in a family um now unfortunately Unfortunately, the cops ended up raiding this place. Oh, no. And at some point, she escaped during this, and she went back to the underpass.

That's all she knew. Now, a neighbor of her parents saw her there. Oh, shit. And they called her father. What a fucking asshole. Yeah. He came and forcibly, like, dragged her back home because he was like, fucky, you ran away.

Yeah. And you're in trouble. Were her parents abusive as well? I think that she doesn't specifically say anything about it, but I don't think, you know, it doesn't sound like it was all. It doesn't sound like they were great parents. Okay. That same night that she was dragged back to her home, the sexual abuser relative of hers, basically laughed saying that it was funny.

It was funny that she thought she could escape him. Oh. And that makes me feel like I can't believe her. That she got dragged back to the home. Oh. So she's literally like right back in hell. So she's literally right back in hell. She got pregnant sophomore year of high school at 17 years old.

From this guy? Nope. This was by someone she was actually. dating. Okay. She said she did like this guy, um, but ended up finding out that he was dating someone else at the same time. And when given the choice, he chose the other person, even though she was pregnant. Jesus Christ. So she gave birth to a son, Joey on October 24th, 1999. Um, and she said, while she was pregnant, by the way, her abuser still tried to rape her. Are you kidding me? But she started fighting him back and he backed off. Because she's fucking pregnant. Which I think it's important to be

like she fought good like she decided she was like nope like I'm one I'm pregnant and two you're just not doing this to me right right good for you hell yeah um so she refers makes me sick yeah she now I'm just going to give you a little trigger warning it's like there's I think now is going to be the start of like a lot of shit coming at you more shit some you know they um when she is kidnapped there's a lot of rape a lot of graphic things I'm not going to go into super detail or anything but I just want you to be aware. There's a lot of really disturbing things. So if that's not your deal, next episode.

So she, and obviously she hasn't been kidnapped yet, but she refers to Joey as, like, her gift. She said he was the greatest thing that ever happened to her. Stop. She felt like she had, like, purpose. Like, she just wanted to do right by him. She wanted him to have a childhood. So her mother divorced her father. And her mother started dating a guy named Carlos.

Okay. Carlos is an abusive prick God damn it So when So Michelle at this point was trying to get She's 17 remember Or no excuse me At this point

Joey is two years old So she's 18 or 1920 Yeah So she's 1920 She has a two year old She's in this horrible situation And she's like

I gotta get him out of this situation I want to get a job I need to get this going So she's job hunting But like She doesn't have like you know, high school behind her. She, you know, she's just...

Oh, did she have to leave high school? Yeah. So it's like she was really just struggling to find somebody to take her. So when this was, Joey was two years old, she left Joey with her mom to go job hunting for a couple hours. Yeah. Her mom left Joey with Carlos. Uh-huh. Carlos, I don't know what happened while, like, she was gone, but when, I guess when Michelle showed back up at home, Joey was very upset.

Okay. I thought you were going to tell me that Joey died. No, Joey doesn't die. Spoiler alert. That's a fine spoiler alert. I was going to say that's a good spoiler alert. And when she came home, Joey was very upset in this pissed Carlos off

because he was just an asshole and he was a drunk. So he was an alcoholic. He's abusive. He's a dick. He ended up grabbing Joey by the leg and fracturing the two-year-old's leg. Oh, my God. So Michelle brings

Joey to the hospital, obviously. And they're like, you know, what happened here? Right. Doctors know. Right. These people know. Social workers know. So they were like, what is going on here?

And she said, oh, he hurt his leg while we were at the park. Because she didn't. And the reason was like, I wasn't trying to protect Carlos. She was probably afraid of Carlos. Well, she was also afraid if they know he's in this home. I'm going to get my kid taken away. He's going to get taken away. So she was like, I'm trying to just make sure that they don't think.

he's in a home because I'm trying to get him out. So, like, I can't have this happened. Well, and this is kind of crazy. Carlos actually called the hospital and said, I did it. Wow. Which is pretty shocking. And he said, I was drunk. I didn't mean to hurt him.

And I did. I wonder if he's, like, one of those people that has a drinking problem and is, like, a fucking monster when they're drunk. But then it's, like, a good person when they're sober. I wonder. I know people like that. Yeah, exactly. And obviously, this was great that he, like,

and this was me who did this. But then did he get taken away? The hospital was like, he can't be in this situation. So they ended up taking Joey from her and put him in foster care. Oh my God. And this was like the abs. Reading like, like, I'm going to keep my shit together right now, but reading that part of the book when she is talking about like, I'm seriously going to well.

No, because you have kids. That's a piece of you. Saying goodbye to him and like giving him a last hug and stuff. I was like, who. I don't care of. I ruined this for anybody else. Does she get to see Joey again? She, I believe she, yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. I love you all, but like I needed to, I needed that piece of mind. So a few days later, she had a court hearing until late, because now she's like, I'm going to get him back.

Okay. I'm getting him back. Oh. So a few days later, she had a court hearing. She had to walk three hours to get there. Oh, my God. And she arrived 15 minutes late, and they screamed at her and said they were holding it again. her. Oh my God. So she literally just can't. She was like, I walked here for three hours. Yeah. Like, she literally can't catch a break. So in 2002, she's in the process of attempting to get Joey back. She had moved out of that hellhouse. Okay. And in with a cousin Lisa, who was older than her. So Lisa wants to help her get it back on track. She's like, we're going to get Joey back. She introduces her to some friends of hers and some other cousins that she didn't know. Yeah. And one of the cousins was named Deanna and Deanna introduced her to her friend Emily Castro.

Oh no. Emily hung out a lot. Michelle said she really liked her. She was like a nice girl. Emily did speak and said like her parents were divorced, but she sees her father. Her father's name was Ariel. And she even showed her a photo of him at one point and like spoke to him on the phone many times in front of her.

Like in Michelle said he seemed sweet. Yeah. obviously thought nothing of it. Just like your friend's dad. And she told her that he was an elementary school bus driver, which he was. Are you fucking kidding me? Yes. So Joey's being shuttled at this point to like different foster situations because

my heart. You're usually not just like given to a family and that's the end. It's like you're right. It's a traumatizing experience for everyone involved. So he's going to different towns and she has to be present at every appointment. And also she's doing visitations, like supervised visitations with him. But the problem is, so she's trying to win him back, but she doesn't have a car. So she's just doing whatever she can to get to these places.

And if she's late or misses one, it's just going to delay or stop her from getting him back. So on August 23, 2002, she had an appointment at 2.30 in the afternoon to meet with social services about getting Joey back. They were going to start the process. Okay. The address of the appointment was somewhere she had no. idea how to get to. A family member was going to bring her to this appointment, but bailed at the last second. Oh my God. And the social services people had offered her a ride. And she said, no, I have one because she had a family member. Right. Now she's like, fuck. So she and her cousin,

Deanna, walked for hours trying to find this address. Because again, like, this is, my heart is breaking. Yeah. So they're trying to find this address. They can't locate the place. She eventually told Deanna, you go home without me. I'm going to try to find it. It was like, like 1.30 in the afternoon at this point. She's starting to panic. Right. So she, I mean, she ended up calling social services and they were like, well, you should have taken the ride. I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah, thanks for all your help. She's like, no, I had a ride. Like, no one's going to believe me here. So she stopped in a family dollar store and asked several people in there. If they knew where this place was, she finally got an answer from the cashier that it was, that she thought it was close by. She was like, I think you go up there and take a left. I'm pretty sure. Well, a man named Ariel Castro.

was also in there. No. And he heard this exchange and he said, oh, I know where that is. I'll give you a ride. And she was like, oh, you're Emily's dad. And he was like, yeah. So she thought she could trust him. Like, this is fine.

So he was like, oh, you know, like they get in the car. She said his car was like filthy. Like this man that was just like McDonald's rappers everywhere. So like my car. Pretty much. Pretty much. And so he was like, so he's. starts driving. She's like, no, I think she said it was like over this way. And he's like,

oh, I just have to stop at my house real quick. I'd be like, no, I got to get to this appointment, bro. Well, she's like, I really have to go. And he's like, I'm just going to stop real quick. He said, he said that his dog had puppies. And he was like, and she was like, oh, Joey loves puppies. Whenever he sees a puppy, he goes nuts. And she had told him, I'm going to get my son back right now. So this guy's a fucking monster. So this guy's like, oh, you know what? I'll give you one of the puppies and you can give it to Joey when you got him back. Yeah, I'm so great. Yeah. Now she said, quote, the day that I disappeared, I didn't know that I was going to be spending 11 years in a house full of torture, hell, chained up to poles, hanged from ceilings. I didn't know any of this was going to happen.

I was walking to go get my son back. Oh my God. Yeah. So the home on Seymour Avenue, it was white. It had two floors in a basement. Um, and it was pretty close to her. her own house. Oh, wow. Yeah. It was covered in trash outside. Gross. And like neglected, just like the grass was burnt and long. And he had a chow named Maxine chained up outside. And when she saw the chow, she was like, why isn't she inside with her puppies? And she was like, oh, like she needed to go to the bathroom. So I chained her up. Yeah. So, and again, this is like someone she knows father. Yeah, you're not going to think anything like. You don't think anything like. It's like kind of your friend. It's literally, I mean, yeah. Like. Like.

It was at the house a lot. They knew each other. She said she liked her. So he got her to come inside by saying she could pick one of the puppies. Right. And he was like, oh, Emily came home from school. She's inside. So why would you think anything of it?

Michelle said the home was disgusting. Windows were boarded up from the inside. There was trash, rotten food, newspapers everywhere. She said it smelled like piss. It was like disgusting. So he wanted her to come upstairs to look at the puppies. And she said she immediately was like, nope, not going up there. And he said, come on.

He said, quote, in her book, quote, come on, you really don't have to be afraid. It's me, Ariel, Emily's dead. What a fucking asshole. Like totally used that. He led her to a pink bedroom and pointed in saying the puppies are in there in a box. You can go pick one out. So she went in there. No puppies.

Oh, no. Suddenly she said she heard the door slam behind. Oh, my God. And he put his hand over her mouth telling her, I'll kill you if you scream. Oh, my God. And she's like, fuck. This is a nightmare. This girl's life is a fucking nightmare.

And just know, it's about to get real, real. So if you don't want to hear, really rough stuff. Graphic. Maybe skip forward. I don't know. Okay, I'm hitting the skip forward button. So Ash is stuck here, but you don't have to be. Fuck.

So he tied cords. around her ankles. He tied him so tight that they were cutting her skin. The craziest thing, too, sorry to interrupt you, is like, he didn't even know that she was going to walk into that dollar store and, like, and he was prepared. He was just ready to go. Like, that's so fucked up. Yeah, he was ready to do this. And these cords were so tight on her ankles, they were cutting her skin. And she said her feet immediately went numb. Oh, my God, immediately. Um, he tied her wrists together with cord as well behind her back. Then he pulled her feet to her hand. and tied them behind her back.

So she was hog tied. And then he tied the cord around her neck. Yeah. What the fuck? He then, and this is really terrible, he then masturbated onto her. Ew. Before hanging her by the cord, tying her hands and feet and neck onto another, this like weird clothing line type wire that he had strung between two poles at other ends of the,

at each end of the room. What? So she's hanging from. from that cord hog-tied like stomach facing the ground oh my god yeah he then stuffed a dirty sock in her oh my god gross i'm so sorry and took duct tape around her entire head to keep it in her mouth oh my god he then um and so she's suspended he said suspended she suspended like 12 inches off the ground oh my god yeah um and then he said he was gonna he was like you stay here like where else i'm I'm like go. Like go fuck yourself sir. And he says, I'm going to go get food. Oh no. So before he leaves,

he turns on the radio to loud music. Oh, and you know, we hate that. We hate it so much. That stresses me out so much. She said it was so loud it hurt her ears. Oh, and that's like, yeah. And he left her hanging there for more than a day and a night before coming back. Oh, my God. Yep. And he brought with him McDonald's. And ate it in front of her. Nope, he tried to force feed her like some sausage sandwich that was like old. Ew. And when she wouldn't eat, he untied her, threw her onto a mattress in another room, and

raped her for hours. Oh, gross. Yes. So after he did this, he immediately started to cry. I'd be like, why are you crying? And then he told her he didn't mean to beat his ex-wife that he just had a bad childhood and he was sexually

molested, so now he's just fucked up. I'd be like, yeah, me too, and I'm not fucked up. And he also told her, that he's addicted to porn. Then go watch some porn. So she tried to talk nicely to him and be like, and be like, it's cool, you can change. Like, you can let me go.

This can all end here. Like, you don't need to like give in to your childhood. Like, you can be a good person. I will just leave. Well, he lost his shit and started flipping out because he found out that she was 21 years old. And he was like, I thought you were much younger, like, which makes him even scarier of being.

And he told her that. she was going to be there for a while. He goes maybe until Christmas. And it was August. Oh, my God. So she immediately is like flipping out. Why did it? Why was he like mad that she was older?

Because he's so gross. Yeah, he's a fucking pervert. I'd be like, cool, then let me go. Yeah, he's a preferred piece of shit. But she looks young. So that worked. Right. Because she's tiny. She was so tiny.

Yep. Well, then he drags her out of this room out of nowhere, drags her into the main floor and then opens the door to the basement. No. And is like, we're going down there. No. So in the book she says something like, I've seen enough horror movies to know that nothing good happens

in a basement. Nothing good happens in a basement. She said this basement was covered in rusty chains, dirty clothing, porn, trash, water, just like, it was disgusting. He used two eight foot rusty chains to chain her to a

pole. He literally twist tied her, used twist ties to twist tie her hands behind her back and then took the chains and looped them around her belly, around the pole, and just kept looping them around her whole body up to her mouth. Oh, my God. So from her belly to her mouth, she was literally just chained in place.

Chained in place. With the rusty chains. So then, to make it worse, he goes, I need to make sure that you don't make any sounds. He goes and gets a motorcycle helmet and slams it over her head. Oh, my God. Did you just see me take a deep breath? I feel claustrophobic.

Because if you've ever seen a motorcycle helmet, like that shit, it covers every inch of you to your. And she can't move to, like, breathe. And she was like getting oxygen in that. And I was already hyperventilating and like crushed from these chains. So she said she immediately passed out. I believe that. And she said she would pass out, come to pass out, come through. This poor woman.

She ended up getting her hands while he was upstairs. And I think she was, he was gone at this point for a little bit. she got her hands untied from the twist ties because she was like fuck this i'm going to try yeah you have to try anything you can she got her hands untied and got the helmet off that's good um but the she was so chained otherwise so he showed back up and she tried to make it look like she put the helmet back on and she like held her hands behind her back but he saw so he said you're going to have to be punished now no yeah um so in her book she says she can't even describe what he did to her.

Like she can't even write the words down. But it involved him waving a pipe in front of her face and saying if she was screamed, he was going to shove it right down her throat. Oh, God. And she said it was like the most horrific thing you can imagine times it by a thousand. That's what happened here. Oh, my God. He then left her in the pitch black with nothing down there.

Just pitch blackness her chain to this pole with the helmet on. This is so. Yeah. And she said, at this point she's covered in bruises, pee. Ew. Semen. Blood. Just everything.

And she's just sitting there, like, just crying to yourself. Obviously. And after this, there was a routine. He would leave in the morning. He would get an egg McMuffin from McDonald's and shove it down her throat, basically. Make her eat with O.J. And he would go to work, then come home, watch porn super loudly upstairs. Like, she could hear it.

And then come downstairs and violently rape her. beat her. She said it was too bad to even describe. Oh my god. Um, she, she was, and this guy is an elementary school bus driver. Yep. He's an elementary school bus driver. Wow. Yeah. Then he would tell her that no one was looking for her. He was like, no one's looking for you. It's not in the news. There's no flyers up. No one gives a shit that you're here. No one's ever going to give a shit that you're here. So he was breaking her. Right. Of course. Yeah. Just so you know you're never getting out of here and no looking for you. Right. And she was saying like I hated him. I knew like I was like fuck you, but in my head somewhere in there was like what if no one is looking for me. Because people have

been beating this poor girl down her entire fucking life. So she's like, what if? And then she's like, but somebody had to see me at the family dollar. Like Deanna must have told somebody I was with her and I never showed up again. Like she's starting to like panic here. Right. He also would have people over the house. Oh my God. It would tell her she can't make a sound. So she's just chained up downstairs. Well then you're wondering who he's even having over? Exactly. Like you don't want to scream probably. Like are these people going to come downstairs and do it too? Right.

He ended up, he was in a band, and he would have his band come over and play every Saturday night. Oh, my God. Which this is just, like, horrific to me. Well, he's just living his life. Yeah, and she's just down there. Like this. Yeah. Suffering.

And while he was at work, she said she would rattle the chains and try to, like, hit the helmet against the pole. Like, anybody can you hear me? Just can someone hear me? She talks, and this is the part that, like, really got me. she talks a lot about thinking about Joey yeah and I'm not even kidding I started crying reading it I don't killed me yeah um because she said she would like talk to him oh and like would be like pretend he was there like I'm literally gonna yeah no you're you're gonna you're gonna get a catch him right though you're doing that to me

my shit but I'm gonna elena's eyes are welling up and I don't blame you because she was like I just think about like the one thing you think of in any dangerous situation as a parent is your children yeah and it's not what oh my god this is going to happen to me it's like what's gonna what's going to happen to my kid? Right. Like, I think about that all the time. Because I'm not there to protect them. What would happen to them? Like, I know, even if you have like a spouse or significant other, you're like, they're going to, it's different when you're the mother. Yeah. And it's like something's going to be ripped away from them because their mother is gone. Right. And I always think about that. Like if something happened that like some, they would have to tell them, you know, they would have to

understand that I would never come back. Like, that's an awful thing to think about. Okay, stop talking about that. But it's like Michelle had to think about this. Yeah. It's like that Joey might. never see her again. And it's like, oh, like, and just thinking about her going through that alone in the pitch black, like suffering. It's just like, oh my God, the thing's human beings. It's really, we're the scariest animals. We truly are. Um, so eventually he did bring her back upstairs. And this was like weeks and weeks, them being downstairs. I feel like I don't even know if I would want to be back upstairs. Oh, and she said she couldn't even keep track of days. She started trying to keep track of days because he would go to work so she was like maybe it's a Monday I don't know like she couldn't

even really tell on Saturday yes eventually he brought her back upstairs and chained her to a radiator in the pink room again was it was it hot no the radiator actually and that sucked because she was freezing cold because the radiator was like barely pumping out anything but he chained her to a radiator in the pink room with like this filthy mattress on the floor um he raped her multiple times a day and then he would just lay down and chat with her and she would just lay down and chat with her. And she was like, she literally said like he was like, Jekyllyn Hyde. Right. Like he would be this evil monster and then he would try to talk to her like they were like bruns. And that's even scary. Like something about that is even scarier. Yeah.

He told her he loved looking at blonde girls. And he told her quote, I wish I had gotten to that little John Bonnet Ramsey first. If some other bastard didn't get to her first, it could have been me. Oh. And she was like, my God. What the actual. And then he also. mentioned Elizabeth Smart. Oh, wow. At the time and had like, and she had blonde hair. And he was also talking about her in like some

disgusting way. And she was a child. Yeah. She was a little child. Oh my God. I'd be like, I'm not a child dude and I need you to let me go so that I can turn you in. Well, and he'd have these moments where he would go, he would say, you must be bored up here all day. So

I'm going to do something for you. So he brought in like a radio at one point. And then at one point he was like, I'm going to bring up a TV for you. So he brought up a TV. And she was like, why you, like, what the fuck is going on? Just let me go if you have some ounce of feeling bad. Yeah, like, what is? And she, she said there were several times where she thought she had gotten through to him for a second and then he would just turn it off. Um, so then one day, months later. So she's been enduring this daily for months. He told her he would let her go once he got two other girls in the house. And she was like, no. I don't, I don't want that. Like, I don't want two other people to endure this. she was like but then I was hoping he would try and maybe get caught while trying um he also brought so he and then she started like because she was really smart because he kept saying I need to know how to trust you I need to trust you so she was like all right I'm gonna make him think he can fucking trust me so like she

would he would do these things where he would leave and like come back five seconds later to see if she was trying to escape and he like caught on to this so make sure she was like not doing sitting there and then like he would she would talk to him and like use mind games with him so she started saying to him well you know you never did get me that puppy that for joey and like you know that was your word you said you were going to get me a puppy i should i'm supposed to trust you like what the hell and she kept saying it and kept saying it yeah so eventually he got her a puppy he came in and brought her a puppy what and it was a little pit bull puppy and she named him lobo because he was like really tiny and like low

And she said she fucking loved this puppy. Because you need something to like take care of. Yes. Or like love on. And like literally like trained him. He would curl up and sleep with her at night. So she felt like she had something. Was she like always chained?

Always chained. So she was just with this puppy in this room just by herself. Oh my God. And one night he, so he would bring the dog outside and chain it up when he was going to rape and beat her. And one night he didn't take the dog out. And just guys know there's a trigger warning this is an animal thing. He didn't take the dog out. So the dog tried to help her.

When he came in, she said he was clearly drunk. So that's why he didn't think to take the dog out. And he started to come at her and the dog went after him. Of course. Because that was, they had grown to be, you know, best friends at that point. So the dog tried to attack him. He picked the dog up and broke the dog's neck and threw it on the mattress next. her. And she said that was like, like talk about breaking her. Oh my God. Broke her. And she was like,

and she literally said she just sobbed and screamed. And like she would, and she said when he, when the dog was alive, she would like talk to the dog and be like, we're going to get out of here together. Like, you know, like we're going to be together. And then after that happened, she was like, I just talked to him and was like, hopefully I'll see you on the other side. Like, hopefully this ends soon and I can come to you. Wow. Right? Wow. Are we almost done with episode one? Because I'm like, I'm overwhelmed.

It's coming. So then one day, so one day he comes up and he's like, I'm going to take you outside. She hasn't been outside in, I mean, like eight months at this point. Right. So he's like, she's like, okay. And he's like, so he grabs or brings her downstairs,

like puts, you know, changes her clothes because she was wearing the same clothes that she had been kidnapped in. months ago. Wow. And so he puts her in like dirty like man pajamas, like his yucky clothes. Then he puts a wig on her in glasses. My God. So he'd be like, oh, I thought no one was looking for me. Yeah, exactly. So he takes her out to the backyard and like has her help him do something. And she said like she hadn't seen sun or like felt air. I wonder if it hurt. Well, and a neighbor was outside. And she said the reason she didn't scream was because he held a gun at her and said if you make a

always I'll shoot you. Yeah. And I was like, oh my God, how do you, like, you think of what you think you would do in that situation? Because it me, like, when I think of it, I'm like, I would just scream and be like, you shoot me, you shoot me out of course shit at this one. Right. But you have to wonder. You have no idea. And he has mentally broken her. Right. So far beyond anything we can ever fathom. And not only mentally, physically broken her. Right. And you wonder if at that point, you're like, what if his neighbors are about? Like, you just don't trust anybody. Yeah, exactly. What if that's not his neighbor? What if this is like a weird setup? What if this is going to get even worse if I bring somebody else into it?

Right. So then after that, he brought her into the house and made her take off the pajamas and she thinks she's going to get, you know, her clothing back. And he's like, oh, no, you're staying naked now. Oh, my God. So for four full months, she was completely naked chained up for four months. Like, through the winter, like freezing in the house. she went eight months with no shower. Oh my God.

And then this is when eight, so this time was April 21st, 2003. Remember, she was kidnapped in August 23rd, 2002. Yeah. So this is almost a full year. And 16-year-old Amanda Berry went missing. 16. Yep. Amanda worked at Burger King on Lorraine Avenue in West 110th Street in Cleveland.

This was right around the area where Michelle was and where she had been kidnapped. This was literally the day before her 17th birthday. She said she almost called out of work that day because it was her birthday the next day. And she was like, maybe I'm just going to chill. And she said, man, I wish I had. Wow. So she's leaving work that day and she's walking home. Now her boyfriend, DJ, was supposed to pick her up.

He didn't. I think he was kind of being a shithead. she passed a maroon van on her way home and it was parked in a driveway. She had to maneuver around the van and she saw inside that there was a man in which she just figured was his daughter. So she said she recognized the girl. She thought she went to elementary school with her. So she was like, oh, like just smiled at them and kept walking. So a bit later, the van started following her.

Oh, God. And the guy looked out and said, do you need a ride? And she was like, uh, and she like looks in and she doesn't see the daughter anymore. So he's like, oh, my daughter, Emily, is at my house. Like, you know Emily, right? And she was like, oh, yeah, I think I do know your daughter. I hate that this guy's like using his daughter. And she was like, he was like, oh, do you want like me to give you a ride?

Like, I can take you back so you can say hi to Emily. And she was like, oh, yeah, you know what, sure. Because I think she had also gotten a fight with her mom that day. And she was like, I'm not going home. Like, this is fine. Oh, go to hi to Emily. Yeah. So she's like, sure.

So they go back to his house. She has her phone out, which like cell phones weren't like. cell phones weren't like crazy. No, not in 2000. So, um, so at one point he like was like, oh, that's a cool phone while they're driving. Um, and then he tells her, um, he, or they park in the driveway of his house. And he's like, you know what? Can I see your phone really quick to do? Like, can I use it really quick? And she's like, yeah, sure. So she gives it to him. And then he's like, oh, you know what? Let me untangle the chain for my dog. And he gets out with the phone. Yeah. She doesn't think anything of it, of course. So she's just sitting there. My stomach is like,

dropping. Yeah. So she's just sitting there and they so and he's like oh why don't you come inside. Emily's inside but she's taking a bath. So you can just wait for. That's weird. So she's like okay. So he says that he's like, you know what? Let me show you around this disgusting fucking house. No thanks. And he shows her, they go upstairs and he's like, oh, these are the bedrooms. And he shows her one bedroom with a woman sleeping in an upstairs bedroom with a TV in front of her disgusting mattress. It's Michelle. Right. And immediately Amanda's like, what the fuck? Like, because she can't see the chains. Right. But she's like, why it's dirty. It's just like a TV in front of her. Well, she said he took her to another bedroom that was dark, didn't turn on any of the lights. And he was like, pull your pants down. And this is like, that was the first. And so she was like, what the actual fuck. He ended up raping her and then took her down to the basement.

No. Where he had kept Michelle for so long. long and he did the exact same thing to her that he did to Michelle. With the chains and the motorcycle helmet. And he kept telling her, just be quiet and don't make any noise and I'll let you go home. Which is the worst thing because it's like you're, because you just are like, okay. He did take the color television from Michelle and gave it to Amanda down there. And she said she just screamed and cried the entire time. She was like, I couldn't do anything.

She also said she watched on the TV her sister and mother plead for her return on the news. I always think when I see, first of all, I feel so badly for the families. But then I'm like, what if the person that's missing is watching this? Yeah. And being helpless. Yeah. Well, and she said, she said instead of being hopeless, she looked at it and she, because her parent, her mother was saying, like, I'm going to fight. I'm going to find you.

And she was like, I'm going to fucking fight to get out of here. Like she said that was the thing that made me be like, I'm going to get out of here sometime. Like, I don't know when, but I'm getting out of here. Wow. And she does, by the way, just to give you guys hope they get out of here. And it's a crazy story. So. I'm so relieved that they get out at least I know that.

At least there is a good ending to this where they are all living lives outside of this. Then it's like, how do you live? But holy shit, the trauma. Right. The trauma. Like, is there a therapist alive that could help you deal with that? Is there a team of therapists alive that could help you deal with that? Because you just, how do you ever trust anyone again?

And not to be like gross, but like, how do you ever have sex again? Well, that's, I can't imagine. Wouldn't that. And again, I don't know. Like, I have no idea. And, like, sexual abuse at all, like, the psychology behind it or anything. I imagine. Like, it must be tough to get past that.

I don't know. I enjoy that again. Right. To see it as not something horrific and violent and degrading. And, like, you think, like, you smell a certain smell and you'll go back to a time. Yeah. You're in that position. Like, obviously, you're going to go back.

back to that in your head. Like, I smell certain smells. And I go right back to watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I love that for you. And I know, it's funny, because I actually, I smelled the smell the other day. And I was like, who, and it, like, transport you for a second. Like, you feel like you're there. It's so.

Or, like, you know when a, like, a smell smells like a certain time in your life? That's what this smell is. It's that certain time of my life. But, like, oh, that smells like when I was 16 and we, like, we were at the carnival. It's like, it brings me right back to that time. my life where like Buffy the Vampire Slayer was like my like my like safety zone that like took me away from things. It's a thing.

And like it's so olfactory like is one of the, that sense is one of the most powerful sense. Yeah. So yeah. So she just, she was going to fight. And she said on the fourth day of her abduction, it was April 24th, 2003. And he moved her upstairs to a bedroom and chained her to a radiator. Mm-hmm. She said she did the same thing like he used the chain.

looped it around her belly and she said it was really hard because she couldn't stand. But she said like you couldn't really comfortably lay on it. Right. Like it because she was like the padlock was in my back. So I'd have to like lay on weird angles and stuff. It's like, oh. Now a week later, he called her fucking family. Oh, because he has her phone.

Yep. And there's no like passcode. And he told them, I have Mandy. And the only people that called her Mandy were like really good friends and family. and he said she wants to be with me. Oh, my God. Now, the FBI traced to the call. They were like, fuck, yeah, we're getting on this.

So the FBI traced the call, but it was in the early days of this kind of technology. They were able to track it to within like two blocks of its home. Wow. But they could only track with the phone on. And then it died. Oh, yeah, yeah. And he never used it again. And they were hoping they like hung out there waiting because they were like, if he uses it again, we can track it.

Right. He never used it again. So they had to wait. then a few weeks later he asked her if he asked Amanda he was like do you want something from the store are you bored like he did the same thing he did to Michelle and she asked for a journal or a coloring book because she was like I don't know like just something I would I mean that's smart I would want a journal to record everything and like record days and she did so she so he gave her the journal and she wrote numbers on the tops of the pages and these numbers were the amount of times he had raped her that day oh my god yeah sometimes he would

let her shower, but it had to be with him. Oh, blah, blah, blah. And she says, and this is so, like, all of them say this. And it's so commonly, like, a trauma survivor thing that she was like, I just put myself somewhere else. Because I had, yeah, you need to shower. You need to do something. During the rapes, during the beatings, during all of these awful experiences, I would

just leave in my head and just be somewhere else. Because otherwise, it's like you're not going to survive. No. It's crazy that your, like, survival instinct kicks in like that. flight or fight kind of shit and just puts you. It's like here is what you got to do. Like go somewhere else. And it's like, holy shit.

I've never had to. No. Put myself that far out of my own body in mind. And God, I hope I never have to. So then he told her that he would let her go when he got one more girl in the house. So it's keeping track with what he told Michelle. Right. Soon after Amanda was brought into the home, Michelle was pregnant.

Oh, God. Michelle became pregnant several times, I believe, and he would force Michelle to miscarry by like punching her, you know, pushing her downstairs doing just terrible things to her. That's horrible. And this one time that she got pregnant, Ariel found out and he tried to starve her to lose the baby. Jesus. And when that didn't work, he, and this is awful, just so you guys know, he punched her in the stomach with a barbell. Oh. She miscarried that night alone on that filthy mattress. And then he came upstairs the next morning and beat her for aborting his child. Oh. Yep. And let me tell you, like that, and like the, she is missing her child. Yep. Her Joey. That's like then the one thing that's keeping her just like. Keeping her going. Yeah. And then she gets pregnant. It's like, it's like, it probably doesn't matter that it's with this guy.

No, because it's a, it's your baby. Right. Like, this is yours. And she's in her head, she's like, I'm going to take care of this baby. I'm growing this. This is my baby. And it's like to have, first of all, miscarrying is the most traumatic thing ever anyways, but dramatically miscarrying, having someone like beat a child out of you. Right. I can't imagine. I can't imagine. My brain won't even, and I'm glad it won't even allow me to even fathom that. No. It really won't. Because it's like somebody taking away like the most, the most thing that they could take away. away from you. Exactly. It's taking away like a life out of you. And it's like in a life that you want. You know what I mean? Like that's the thing. It's like she wanted to keep these. And it's like, holy shit. So April 2nd, 2004, close to a year later, Dina de Jesus goes missing. She was 14 years old. She was 14. She was a baby. God. And this is where we are going to end for this part because I think we have all suffered enough here. This is actually my last podcast that I'm going to be sitting in on.

I'm actually resigning. I'm out. See you later. This one really broke me. This one's tough. It's tough. This is worse than the toy box killer episode. But the good thing is this one has an ending.

I mean, I want to call it a happy ending. Well, it is. They escape in the end. And they're helping their lives. But holy shit, what they endured. And for a decade. Wow. For a literal decade.

Like, we just came to the. end of a decade and looking back on it, I was like, holy shit, that was a long decade. Can you imagine? I was 13 when that decade started and I am now 23. Like what those? Like that's a lot. Yeah. You were, you were my age. Yeah. And now you're 30. Like, that's how decades work in case you were wondering. That's how decades work. Like, you know, when you just say it and you're like, holy fuck, like a decade. Like in a decade, I will be your age and be in a completely, it's like so, there's so many different stages of life and they just missed out on this huge stage of life. Oh, they missed so much. Like 14? Oh, 14? 16. No, even 19. 21. You miss out on your early 20s.

Like you miss out on your adolescence. Like in this poor girl, Michelle, she already missed out her adolescence. Oh, yeah. I mean, she's missed. It's like, she has not caught a break. And then you're at the shitty part of life where you have to get a mortgage. Exactly. Where everything all of a sudden you have to adult. It's like, that's no fun. But. I'd be like, can someone take me to Disneyland? The next, the next episode, the next part of this, we're going to talk about Gina's disappearance, how she was kidnapped. We're going to talk about what else has gone on because a child does come into this situation. Oh, my God.

And the child is also like alive and well and flourishing today, just so you know. That makes me happy. Yeah, just to give a little hope at the end of this. And we'll talk about Ariel and what the fuck is his deal. I don't even give a fuck what his deal is Yeah But I know we have to Literally the worst thing

That I could even dream up He really is Yeah Like for all the physical things he would do But then also for all the mental things he would do to them Just him as a whole being At one point he ripped up the picture of Joey In front of her

Stop Mm-hmm Like he literally just wanted to Break her in any way he could possibly break her I just, that's a lot. Yeah. So that is part one of the Cleveland kidnappings. And Ariel Castro is a piece of shit.

And I hope he's getting horrible things done to him in hell right now because he's dead. Damn it. I wanted him to be alive and in jail. Oh, do you know how badly I wish that fucker was just suffering like alive right now? Yeah, it's a real bummer that he's dead. Wow. But, yeah, so we will be back this week with part two. too. So exciting. And for all you NYCers, come into the Gramacy show. See you in three days.

I'll see you soon. Ooh. Hopefully I don't crap my fancy pants. Yeah, I hope she doesn't. I talk about shitting my pants way too much. I don't shit my pants. So everybody knows. Just so you know, that doesn't occur that much, to be honest. No, like, it just doesn't occur. It really doesn't. I don't think you're like that much. I can vouch for that. Yeah. So if you want to look at our Instagram to unwind. I don't know if that will help you, but it is at Morbid Podcast. If you want to tweet at us about how mad you are that we did this case because it's sad. A Morbid Podcast. If you want to send us a Gmail with really kind words to make me feel better about having to listen to this case.

Morbid Podcast at gmail.com. If you want to talk about it in the Facebook group. Morbid, colon, a true crime podcast. If you'd like to donate to the Patreon, it is under construction. Patreon.com slash morbid podcast. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. I don't even think I have to say that I'm not doing one for this.

Yeah, I mean this. Like, fuck that. Brutality. Bye. Bye.