Morbid - Listener Tales 80

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

It is Listener Tales 80 and this installment is brought to you by HEROES with the spookiest of tales… A decomposing body, florescent yellow fluid, possessed toys, a baby seeing ghost, and a man in black. These are brought to you by you, for you, from you and all about you so if you have a listener tale please go ahead and send it to [e-mail] with "Listener Tale" somewhere in the subject line :) Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this, this right here? Yeah, this. It's morbid. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is. Welcome to it. Hey. It's an Ash-centric episode. Woo-hoo. And, who boy. I would like to not call this. I was going to say, this is simply an episode. I don't know if you want this to be labeled with your name on it, but. Nah. Who-boy? Yeah, today we're going to be talking about calling Stan, also known as, the girl in the box case. This one was chosen by our patrons. It was. You guys. You guys, you know, I mean, I did present you with two options. It's true. It's true. Both were equally as rough. Yeah. I don't really think we have any business, so. I don't think we do. I cut my hair. Oh, me too. I like chopped my hair off. I know. We're kind of like twins now. We kind of are. You're just red and I'm brownish, blondeish. I just thought it was important to tell you guys that.

It is. You look super like. I don't want to say cute because I feel like I hate when people call me cute. But I appreciate that. But like you look, you look very, um. I went Bethany Frankel. Yes. When she got her Bob. Because we've been rewatching old housewives episodes. At night when I research, I just have New York Housewives on in the back.

Me too. In fact, I had to start turning it off because I would get like distracted. Yeah. I need to. It's soothing. The ADD that runs throughout me. I have to put on like golf. I was like putting on golf for a while when I researched.

Because I have to have something in the background. I can't research in like a dead quiet room. Yeah, I need something. But then I even started watching golf. That makes sense. That's a good strategy, I think. Yeah. But then I started watching it. So it wasn't such a great strategy. I wasn't really invested, pod. So whatever. Yeah. But I don't, yeah, other than that, other than that groundbreaking news, I don't think there's anything I really want to touch upon today. I don't think so. So let's get into it. Let's do it. All right. First and foremost,

This is going to be a very rough one to sit through. This involves a lot of sexual assault. This involves just a lot. So just be warned that if you're claustrophobic or anything like that, this might not be for you. And then it has a really messed up version of what they like refer to as BDSM, but it's like not at all. Here's the thing. This is not BDSM, even in the slightest. Exactly.

The defense wanted it to be. Like, they wanted to paint it in that light, but I'm pretty sure anybody involved in the BDSM community would hold their middle fingers up and be like, yeah, no. Yeah, because I just, yeah, it's not. Because this person, basically what we'll see is that the person that kidnaps Colleen likes doing bondage acts on women, but he doesn't like to do them on consenting women. Which is in everybody who I've talked to in the BDSM community, consent is a large part of that. Huge. I think that right there shows that there's a very big difference. Yeah, I'm going to point that out just so it's not like shown in a light. You know what I mean? Like I don't want to reflect upon a whole like a whole community's kink in like a way that seems like this is it because it's not.

This ain't it. This ain't it. So Colleen Stan. Colleen Stan was born to her parents Jack and Eve, 1956. She was the oldest of three daughters who were all raised in Riverside, California. And from a young age, Colleen was like super creative. She loved to write poetry. But she wasn't necessarily a school person like me. I hated school. I consider myself pretty creative, but not a school person. Now, she dropped out when she turned 16.

And she had been dating a man around that time. And she knew, she believed that they loved each other. So they got married and she moved away with him. But things only lasted about a year and they ended up divorced and she returned home to California. Okay. So when she moved home, she met this couple named Bob and Alice from Oregon. And they had a two-year-old daughter who Colleen absolutely loved. And she just really hit it off with this little family.

And I think, I mean, she had just like gone through a divorce and everything. It was almost like looking at what she could have had. Yeah. So she kind of attached herself. Yeah. Now, after a while of friendship, they all decided to get. a place together back in Oregon. So that's like the first part of it. Okay. On Thursday, May 19th, 1977, Colleen told Bob and Alice that she was going to head out to California to surprise her

friend Linda for her birthday. Now they would drive her some of the way and then she would hitchhike the rest of the way. All right. There it is. We've literally talked about hitchhiking cases so many times. So I mean, I think we all know too, like around this time. It was a very normal thing. Yeah. And this was something that Colleen had done plenty of times. Of course. You know, she was the time. It was the time. She felt like she was a good judge of character. She felt like she knew which cars were good to get into, which ones weren't, the whole shebang. So Bob and Alice drove her as far as they were going to. She was like, thanks. I'll be back on Saturday. See you then. Oh, oh. Yep. Saturday. It's like a scream when you say, I'll be right back. I'll be right back. You don't say it.

No, you can't say it. Now Saturday came and went without Colleen's return. So Alice, Alice, like, gave it a few days. And she was like, oh, you know, maybe she made her trip longer because her mom lives around there. So maybe she, like, added, like, a little time to see her mom. But then still, she didn't come back. So Alice called Evelyn. And she told her, you know, like, is Colleen there? You know, like, is calling there? You know, like, is calling there? And Evelyn, her mom was like, no, I haven't seen her. I haven't heard from her. Like, is she supposed to be here? Yeah. And there's no cell phones. So it's not like you can, like, text her. Exactly. That's always so, like, crazy to us. In the 70s cases, I'm always like, oh my God, because what the fuck were you supposed to do? How did anyone know where anyone was at any given time? And how did you know how to go places without your fucking GPS? I mean, we used MapQuest, printout, and that was hard enough. I was like, not in the 70s sister. So, I mean, now Evelyn and Alice are even more worried.

So they call the police in Westwood, California, where Linda lived. Now the put could because Linda didn't have a phone. So they couldn't call Linda. Oh, geez. Yeah. So the police tracked down Linda. and they learned that Colleen had never made it to Westwood to surprise Linda, and Linda hadn't heard from her in a while either.

So that's not good. Where the fuck is Colleen? What happened between home and there? What happened? So let's go back to Thursday, May 19th. After Bob and Alice dropped Colleen off on the freeway, Colleen took two rides, and she was super close to her destination, Westwood. I think she was like about 100 miles away.

And if she picked the right car, she might only need to use her judgment on one more car to finish up the trip. And like I said, she felt like she was a good judge of character when it came to hitchhiking. And actually on this day, she had already turned down two car rides. Really? Just like based off of she didn't get a good vibe? Yeah, she just didn't get a good vibe. One car was full of like younger men and she do way better than to only be the only woman in the car. Yeah, no. And I'm not sure about the other one. But she was just like, nah, like, you know. Yeah, the vibes weren't there. Got a vibe check. Yeah. Now the ride she did accept to go the rest of the way seemed like, a smart choice. This was a blue two-door Dodge Colt pulled up right next to her on the side of the

highway, offer her a ride. There's a young man driving. And in the passenger seat, there's a woman holding a baby. So, of course, you know. There's a baby. There's a baby. And a woman, so you're safe. And these adults seem to be around Colleen's age. So she said, yep, like, let's do it. Thanks for stopping to get me. That's a tale as oldest time that they use the woman or a kid. It's so sad. Or even, not even like physically there, but like toys in the back seat or a carriage or, yeah. What's it called? A car seat. Yeah. Which, well, so creepy. That adds a whole, that's abhorrent. Oh, yeah. Now, the woman got out to let Colleen in the car and they were off. So at first, they made like casual conversation. They talked about the area. And the driver mentioned that his brother had told him about some cool ice caves nearby. So they talked about where Colleen was headed off to. they she told them her friend didn't know that she was coming she was surprising her for a trip oh and you

wouldn't even think of it no of course not you don't even think of it until hindsight oh i'm just going to surprise my friend you don't even think of it someone's expecting me right always say it right and well and i shouldn't say she told to them i'm just you know i think she said like i'm surprising my friend yeah exactly now the driver noticed that she was really jumpy like whenever he would talk to her she'd jump a little. And he noticed, excuse me, she noticed herself that when they weren't talking, he kept looking at her in the rear view mirror. And she was like just getting like a weird vibe about it. Like sizing her up. Yeah. And something about that felt off to her. And actually, they stopped to get gas and she went in to use the bathroom. And she later said that when she was in the bathroom,

she was thinking to herself, something about this doesn't feel right. Like I could, I could jump out that window and run away. Like, I don't need to get back in that car. But she pushed the voice down. No. She was so close to her trip. These people had a baby in the car. What were they going to do to her? Oh, man. So she got back in the car and the driver brought up those ice caves again. And he asked her, oh, would you mind taking a little detour? We can go check them out. And, you know, we'll still make good time. And she was like, I'm not really in any position to take the lead on where we're going. So, you know, she's the one that needs to be driven. Yeah, she needs the ride. But this is another thing. It's like the Myra Hindley and Neen Brady thing. Do you mind if we stop real quick and just look for this? It's all. It's all. You know, she's all. It's all. look for something. Right. But I mean, this is even different because she's like, oh, cool, ice caves. Yeah, but that's what they do. Like, let's stop here real quick. I just got to do something or we should want to show you something cool. It's just like, oh. So the driver started heading out toward those caves and the caves were off a beaten path, he said. Don't worry about the dirt road. Nothing to see here. It's all good. Totally fine. So they're driving down this dirt road and Colleen's like, I don't see any caves. And then the car

stops and the woman gets out with her baby and just like walks up ahead. I think there was like a stream. and she's like, like what? But she doesn't have any time to ask where they were. Because out of nowhere, the man driving gets out of the car, climbs into the backseat with her, holds her at knife point. Like whips out a knife and hold a knife and holds it to her. He tells her, shut up, put your hands in the air. And he handcuffs her. No.

Then he blindfolds her. He gags her. And he takes this wooden box that had been sitting next to her all along that she kind of looked at but like didn't think. much about, takes it and puts it over her head. What the fuck. Now, this is a 20 pound box. It was padded on the inside so that she could barely hear anything and definitely obviously couldn't see anything. She could barely even hold her head up. Not that he wanted her to anyway, because he told her to lay down in the back seat and he covered her up with her own sleeping bag. I'm already, like, I'm out. Yeah, it's not. I'm already. Like, I can't deal with this. A box over your

head. And like a box that was sitting next to you. Who made this box that was just sitting next to me this entire time? Right. And like, I don't know. She's probably thinking it's like a crate or something, you know? Yeah. You're definitely not thinking he's going to put that over my head after he handcuffs me. Right. And this box like latched closed. Like this was not just like a box that was like balanced over her head. Yeah. This had like a place for her head. It was patted on the inside. She could barely breathe. It was horrible. That horrifies me. And I was trying to think there was like one ghost in that movie, the 13 ghosts, which I love that movie, that had a box on its head and it always freaked me out. And it just made me think of it. I'm very claustrophobic. The entire time that I was

researching this, I kept being like, just take deep breaths. Like that's the thing. It's like, oh. Yeah. Like even now I'm like, mm-mm. Yeah, no, I'm not a fan. No. So the man driving was 23-year-old Cameron Hooker and the passenger was his wife, Janice. And the baby she was holding was real. It was their baby that they had just recently had together along for ride. Now, Janice had met Cameron when she was 15 years old. She was a freshman in high school and he was 19 and he was working at a nearby mill. He was like a mill worker. Their relationship started off basically as most grooming relationships do. Cameron made Janice feel special. He doted on her. He took her on dates and he'd give her little gifts from time to time. He seemed like the perfect guy. And she wasn't abused

physically at home, but she was definitely like emotionally neglected. She was, She was the youngest of four kids and her parents just, like, didn't pay any attention to her, it seemed like. Her dad actually kept his distance from her and she felt it was because that she suffered from epilepsy when she was younger. Oh. And she thought that he thought that she was possessed by demons. Wow. And that's why he stayed away from her. Okay.

Yeah. You know. That's real fucked out. The yush. Now her mom left most of the responsibility of taking care of Janice to Janice's older sister, Lisa. and she really only interacted with Janice to tell her if she was disappointed in her because she was stupid or when she did something wrong. So she had like no relationship with her mom. Why did, why? I never get that. I don't get it either. Now, obviously, it seems like she was really

set up to look for validation outside of her family. And it's pretty typical that she found it in an older male giving her attention. Of course. Now, so she ignored a lot of the things that she didn't like about Cameron and tried to focus on the good stuff. And she did things that she usually wouldn't have because she was afraid to lose this person that she thought was like the only one out there who loved her or cared about her. And actually, Janice's parents really loved Cameron. So they let her marry him when she was 16 in January, 1975. Of course they did, because they were like, now you're out of our hair. Right. Exactly. And actually she remembered being like, because her older sister Lisa had wanted to get married or something like that when she was 16, but she had to wait until

she was 18. So Janice was like, interesting that like, like, when I was 16. That you're scooting me out the door. Yeah. She was like this older man who, wow. That's exactly how she felt. And it's interesting that she dropped out and got married at 16 just like Colleen had. Yeah. So they had like something like that is, I know, because I was like, this does sound familiar. Yeah. Now, let's talk about Cameron Hooker. He was born November 5th, 1953 in California to parents Harold and Lorena. He, Harold worked in construction, and the family, like, moved around a ton. So Cameron and his younger brother, Dexter, they never really had the chance to make lasting connections with other friends or honestly really make friends. But other than moving around a lot, there's really no evidence

of any other kind of chaos in the hooker household. There's no reports of abuse or anything like that. And everyone who knew the parents said that they were just hard workers who seemed to love their children. So it definitely doesn't come off as like a full-on, like, oh, this is what happened. is why. It's actually, it's funny because we just finished the Willie Picton case. And I remember when we were doing that, I was like, oh, so that's why he's like this. Yeah, it was like pretty easy to point out, like, yeah, there's a lot of disarray here. Right. A lot of neglect and abuse. Right. Yeah. And then I was thinking about this case and I'm like, there's really not anything to point out for what happened to Cameron. I mean, moving around a lot can be like tough when you're younger. But I'm, for sure.

I moved around when I was younger. But like plenty of kids move around and don't do this. Exactly. So finally, the family settled down near Reddy. Bluff, California, when Cameron was 16. So now he had the chance to make friends or like join the community in some way, like join a, you know, basketball team, whatever have you. But he didn't want to do that. And he wasn't, it didn't seem like he was bullied, but he really didn't have a lot of friends. And he was kind of like on the outskirts. Like he wasn't, he wasn't super cool or anything. But he seemed like somebody who just wanted to be by himself. And I mean, at that point, it had been working for him for 16 years. So like, why change that now? Yeah. If it's not.

broke, don't fix it. Yeah, he knows that he can just chill by himself. So, you know, why change that? But what did change was Cameron, like most 16-year-old boys, was thinking about sex and women and figuring out what he liked and, you know, the whole shebang. I'm going to say that like 85 times. The whole shebang. But it was then that he really took an interest in bondage, which, like I said in the beginning, obviously that's totally fine as long as both parties involved are willing participants. Yeah, consent is very necessary, vital, one might say. Consent. is key. Yes. But that was the part that Cameron didn't really like that much. Yeah, that's when it's a problem. Yeah. So when he met Janice, like I said, she was 15 and he was 19. And now he had someone to

experiment with. But when he brought up some of the ideas that he had to Janice about like giving bondage a try, she just wasn't into it. She didn't want to do it. Yeah. But he soothed her by telling her, like, it's nothing to be afraid of. And he pressured her and was like, I've done this with my other girlfriends and, you know, they all let me do it and they were fine. Oh, of course. So she's like, you know, he's like, if you're not interested, like, I don't know if it's going to work out between us. So obviously not wanting to lose the one person she had, she's like, all right, I'll give it a try. Yeah, you don't want to be the only girlfriend who didn't do it. Especially at 15, like you're so impressionable. That's easy. That kind of peer pressure, quote unquote, is exactly what happens. Yeah.

So Cameron would take her into the woods and hang her from trees. by her wrists and he would use handcuffs that he made himself. He would take photos of her naked in the positions that he's 15. He put her in. He would not okay on every level. No, not at all. He would whip her until he would like make welts on her body. And I read this wicked good book. I use like a ton of other sources too that I'll put in the show notes, but the one I really want to talk about the most is this book of the perfect victim. It was actually written by Christine McGuire, who was the prosecutor on this case later on. That's so cool.

And it was co-written by her and Carla Norton. Now, according to that book, Perfect Victim, there was one occasion where Cameron wanted to tie Janice up and dunk her in a nearby creek. What? Yeah, he really liked to involve water in a lot of his things. Ooh, that's a nightmare. Yeah. Now, by this point, she had endured everything else and she didn't want to upset him, so she said,

sure. Now, when they did it the first time, she almost drowned. E. Like, I don't know exactly what happened, but she was like, okay, I don't want to do that again. Yeah. And now, the authors point out that Janice didn't ever enjoy the bondage aspect of her relationship with Cameron, but what she did look forward to and kind of like, it was the way that she got through everything was that when they were done and he would untie her or take her handcuffs off her wrists and like he'd hold her and kind of dode upon her. Yeah. Like basically pat her on the back and say, good job. Yeah. And he became like this totally different person. And he was like,

the Cameron that she met. And that makes sense because it's like her parents, the only time they would communicate with her was to tell her like you fucked up or you're, you're, you know, dumb or you're this or you're that. Right. So to have this guy, even if it's that little part where he will tell you that you're great and you did awesome and like, thank you for doing that. That's what she's been looking for. That's all she needs. Just sustain her. Right. She'll take the abuse or the whatever else is happening. That's just really sad. It is sad. And I mean, the book is called Perfect. victim because like they were pointing out, Colleen was like the perfect victim for him. But honestly, Janice was also the perfect victim for him. She was a child. I mean, that's a 15 year old here.

Right. So like I said, they got married. And once they were married, they continued this kind of sex life together. But Janice was really getting tired of it. And what she really wanted to do was be a mom. She wanted to have a baby. And she knew that obviously this wouldn't be able to continue to go on while she's pregnant. So, you know, that seemed like a win-win for her. she could make this not happen and also have a baby. But Cameron was like, no, I'm not happy. And at this point, he needs this. He's like addicted to it, basically. This kind of sex. Yeah. And so he didn't read very well, I guess. Like he wasn't a very good reader, but he had every porno magazine that you could imagine. And he liked the darker ones that talked about female slavery and showed like a lot of very

bleak dark pictures. So he didn't really need to read. He could just check out the pictures and kind of gather what he needed. And he wanted to try some of this new stuff with Janice, but she would cry or like beg him not to. And he was getting tired of doing everything with her. So he wanted, he wanted to do it with somebody that like, somebody who would, who would not give him grief. Right. Exactly. And he, and he, like a Jeffrey Dahmer-esque. Yeah. And I think he's the kind of person that is never going to be happy with just one woman doing this, he wants to do this to different women throughout his life. Now, at this point, he's getting mad and violent with her. He threatened to kill her and actually told her exactly how he would do it. And he was just keeping

her beneath him or too afraid to leave him or to confide in anybody about her situation. Not that she really had anybody to tell anyways. Yeah. So she's like really in a bad position. and he's devouring these underground magazines more and more often. And like I said, he's talking about enslaving a non-willing female, and he starts bringing that idea up to Janice. So shockingly enough, they come to a deal. If she could have a baby, she would allow him to keep a, quote, sex slave. But the deal was, so they, like, he could do that and she would have a baby. But she said, I don't want you to engage in penetrative.

How do you say that? You're right. Penetrative. Yeah. Sex with the woman. Like, you can do whatever you want, but don't have, like, quote unquote, sex. Wow. Yeah. This is sad and fucked up in every way that it could be.

It really is. Like, the fact that she's, like, just please let me have a baby and then you can do this. And she's also just being, like, and here are the rules for this. Like, there's. I love you, like, don't cheat on me, per se. Levels of just sadness and darkness and bleakness here. That's just like, woof. And it's hard, like, uh, like dissecting this case because you want to be mad at Janice.

But then like you said, you keep going back to it and you're like, she was 15. She was 15. She was like brainwashed. That's really insane. Yeah. So now it was up to Cameron to figure out a way to make this fantasy a reality. So he apparently considered putting a listing in one of these magazines because you could do that. Yeah.

But there were too many problems with that. situation the more he thought about it. And his main goal, I can't emphasize this point enough, because it's the differentiating factor between Cameron and the BDSM community was that this woman be unwilling. So that's the thing. When you're putting an ad in a magazine, you're getting a woman that's like, sure. And the perfect victim points out, she probably would want to be paid, obviously. Yeah. And it's like, there's absolutely people who will like engage in like rape fantasies with someone. You know what I mean? Like if that's what he was looking for. It's like, it may not be on everybody's thing, but it's some people's thing.

Yeah. And it's like, but here, it's very clear that that's not enough for him. He's not looking for someone to participate in a fantasy. He's looking for someone to participate in rape. Exactly. That's what he's looking for. He needs to make it his reality. He wants to be a predator.

Yeah, absolutely. So a kidnapping seemed more fit for his fantasy than a magazine listing. So he started hunting. So he would drive around looking for a victim. A lot of times bringing Janus with him for obviously. reasons because a woman's going to get into your car if she sees a woman. It's a little bit of comfort. And at this point, she's pregnant. So you're getting into a pregnant woman's car. Yeah. You're not thinking anything's going to happen. What could they possibly do? And then soon enough,

she gave birth to the baby. So the baby would come with this like horrible hunting trip. So he would take pictures of women and at home he was preparing that head box for when he found the right woman. Now, the basement of his and Janice's rented home would be where he kept his like captive. and he was working on more than just the headbox. The basement had a rack that he built himself. And when I say rack, I'm not saying like a drying rack. Oh, no. This was the wreck.

The medieval torture rack. Like, he made one himself. And I know that like in BDSM there's like rack type things. But I imagine his was not something that anyone would enjoy. No, definitely, definitely not. There were also hooks that he installed to the ceiling so that women could be, down there. He basically just started making like a dungeon, if you will. Like a sex dungeon. Yeah. Now, flash forward again to May 19th, 1977. Colleen has now been kidnapped and is lying in the

back of the Blue Dodge Colt with Cameron driving and Janice holding the baby in the passenger seat. Oh, my God. So Colleen obviously couldn't hear or see much with the head, the head box fixed to her head, and she could also barely breathe, but she could tell that the car stopped driving. And someone took the box off of her head and she smelled food. And she still couldn't see, but she knew that the people who had just fucking kidnapped her were now sitting in the car with their baby eating cheeseburgers. Oh. Just like eating fast food. Okay. Yeah. You know, like they're just finishing up a day of errands or like a day of fun and they need to grab a bite of tea. You got to stop and grab something to eat. Like what? No. What? This case. It's nuts. And obviously the other reason why they're

eating, I think, is because they were waiting for the sun to go down so they can get her in the house without anybody looking. You know, this woman in a sleeping bag with a box on her head. No. Into your house without neighbors being like, what's happening there, Joe? Hey, what are you doing? What's up, Cameron? Hey, what's happening here?

They let her sit up for a little bit. They finish up their cheeseburgers. And then when they're done, the head box was put back on and on Colleen. And the next time the car stopped, they were at the couple's house. Now 1140 Oak Street is where Colleen would spend the first part of her captivity. This is where it's going to start to get dark. Just so everybody knows, I'm not going into full detail about everything. I'm going to kind of overview things.

And if you would like a more in-depth into this description, you should definitely read the perfect victim. Yeah. I just, there's some things I can't even like say out loud, you know? Yeah, there's a lot. Like personally. For sure. So when they pulled up to the home, it was dark.

And there weren't neighbors really. close enough to tell like anything like this was going on. Like if it was daylight they would see, but the neighbors were far enough that at night they wouldn't see. Yeah. So again, the headbox is taken off and Colleen is led into the house. Cameron takes her down to the basement while Janice settled the baby upstairs, which... Yeah, you got to put the baby to bed. What? Yeah. So trigger warning, we're going to get into the dark stuff. Immediately, Colleen was hung to the ceiling. She was still blindfolded and now Cameron stripped off all her clothing and immediately began whipping her. He beats her and he sexually assaults her.

And she blacks out. Or girl. Oh my God. It's horrific. And that is a brief overview. That's your entrance into the house. Oh, and it's only going to get more bleak because she blacks out from the pain. And when she wakes up and I cannot express to you how fucking foul this is, she wakes up to the couple having sex underneath her while she's still hanging from the ceiling.

I didn't see that coming. Yeah, I don't think I don't think I'm going to see a lot of this coming, but I really didn't see that coming. No. So she wakes up and they're literally having sex beneath her feet. Fowl is a perfect way to describe that. There's no other word. I think you really nailed that. I can think of to describe that. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. So when they were done, Janice hurried back upstairs and Cameron took Colleen off the ceiling. And now he placed her into another box. This box was apparently three feet high. Her arm were chained to the top of that box, and this separate head box was placed on top and closed around her head. Now, this time, she tried to kick because she's like, I am trying to do anything, you know? Yeah. Anybody would do that. I think that's like your first human instinct.

Absolutely. He comes back and ties her feet to the box so she can't kick. So now her arms and her feet are shackled and there's a box on top of her head and she is in another box. Yes. It's so hard to even. like deep breaths because I'm like, whoa. Well, why don't you go ahead and take another one?

The claustophobia here is just next level. You should take another deep breath for this next part. So yes, like you said, her head is in one box. Her body is in like, it seems like half of another box. It was a little hard to decipher. And then he comes back and ties her feet and she's like, I can't breathe in here. Like, please like let me go. Like I can't breathe.

He doesn't say this entire thing, entire time he hasn't said a word to her. So his response. was that he came back and tied something around her chest and rib area to make it even harder to breathe. Oh, excuse me. Then he, this is horrible, place something between her legs and went upstairs. Now, the device that he put between her legs was actually meant to shock her throughout the night. Like, send little, like, shocks throughout her body. Luckily, I hesitate to say luckily, but it wasn't working. So that nothing happened. But that was the intention. But that was the intention. It's all about intention. Oh, my God, absolutely. Oh. And then throughout the first night,

he would come down and, like, place his hand on her back, which, and she had been put into the box face first. So from the neck down, her back was exposed. So all throughout the night, he would just go and put a hand on her back. And the perfect victim, that book was like saying she didn't know if it was to scare her or to check and see if she was still alive. It was probably a little bit of both, I would imagine. That's literally exactly what I was just going to say. So that's her first night. Oh. Absolutely horrible.

And like I said, that's a brief overview of her first night. And that's stuff that like, if you saw that in a horror movie, you'd be like, all right. Like, that's too much. Like, you've gone too far. That's just like, you know, ugh. Yeah. Who fathoms that? Cameron Hooker.

And we're going to get worse. So the next day without saying a word again, Cameron came down and moved Colleen from the boxes and he fastened her to the rack. Now, for the next week or so, she would be between the rack and the box. And sometimes Cameron would also be in the basement with her, not talking to her, just building something. So he's just building over in the corner and she's just hanging on something? Literally. Like, she's just like being held like against her will in the basement while he's just building around her.

And she's sitting there wondering, I mean, now she's probably putting two and two together. Like, did he build these boxes that he's putting me in? So what the fuck is he building now? Yeah, like, what is he going to do now? Now, what he was building was the box that Colleen would be living in for the next seven years of her life. This is the thing that just my mind can't wrap around it. Seven years. These kind of things, it's like the same as like the Cleveland kidnappings with like 11 years. It's like when you look at a picture of like the sun and how many earth. can fit inside the sun and you're like, no, my brain literally, that does not compute.

My brain can't wrap around it. It just shuts off. Yeah. That's how these kind of things work with me. It's like seven years. I can't even fathom. Doesn't happen. My brain does not compute. Even right now, I feel like I'm too overwhelmed to think about what I was doing seven years ago. I literally was just thinking. I was like seven years ago, I can't even like. I don't even know how old I was because I can't do the quick. But it was a lot. But like, I was a totally different person back then. And there was just a lot that happened between now and seven years ago. Your kids weren't you've been born. Right? Right? Now you got three of those suckers. Oh my God. Yeah. So think about what could have happened to Colleen in seven years of her life. Oh, my goodness. Now, so the box was double-walled.

So there's like, it's like a box on the outside and then there's another like box essentially on the inside. So obviously nobody can hear her. It was six feet long and three feet high. So not big at all. Also, literally a casket. But like, oh, smaller. And he lined it. And he lined it. And, and he lined it. with the sleeping bag that Colleen had brought for her trip to Linda's. Yep. Cameron chained Colleen into the box and kept her blindfolded and naked. So he's putting her into this box, blindfolded and naked, chained to the box. And before placing the cover on the top, he does one last horrifying fucking thing that will

send your spine to just like exit your body. I don't know why this like hit me so hard. He put earplugs in her ears. and then covered the box. The sensory deprivation. Yes. Is so deep. That's like war torture.

It literally is. I don't want to say worse, but it's like, it's like that, but almost like different. Whoa. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. It's so much. So for the first number of years, she was kept in the box in the basement on the rack or hung from the ceiling and just completely brutalized.

She was let out to eat. and when Cameron felt like abusing her. And it's like, meanwhile, this entire time, they've got a seven-year-old now. Like, they've got a kid living in this house just growing up. Oh, yeah. Well, we'll get into that too because Colleen spent seven years in the box, but there were times where she was out of the box and we'll get into, she ends up building a relationship with these children.

Wow. Yeah. So, like I said, she was let out to eat and when Cameron felt like letting her and when he wanted to abuse her. And a few months in, Cameron made her start helping him build a workroom underneath the stairs. So, like, literally, like, think Harry Potter. Wow. And he made her do this blindfolded.

So she's working blindfolded because she can't see his face. I'd be like, yeah, I'm not helpful to you. She figured it out because if she didn't do things right, obviously there was, quote-unquote, punishments. And it's like she already saw his face when she got in the car. Yeah, but think about, like, the horrifying, like. Yeah, but it's like, it's just so stupid. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Now, so she was kept in the workroom a lot of the time once they were finished building it. And finally, he gave her a nightgown to wear. But she had to stay blindfolded when he came down to give her her her her order. First, he made her do like a lot of weird shit in the workroom. Like, the first thing he made her do was take, he gave her like a shit ton of walnuts and made her like take the shells off of them. Fuck. I don't know if it was just like what he, if that was some weird, like, thought of that day. Yeah, that's really weird. I think it's, well, it hurts. I

would think after a while too. Oh, yeah. So it's some kind of torture. But then he would have her make, I think, is it macromay? Is that how you say that? Yeah. Macromay and crochet things. And then she was like pretty good at it. So him and Janice would go sell that shit at local markets so that they could make money. That their like prisoner was making for them. Literally. Okay. Literally. So she's like a full blown slave at this point because she's just making things for them and like. She's a full blown like, wow. So there's people in the world right now that have. have crochet and macrame that this woman was making under the stairs as she was like shackled to a wall. Yeah, think twice before you buy something macramay. Wow. No, I'm totally kidding. So when she wasn't in

the workroom, she was in one of the other contraptions, trigger warning, she was, he burned her, he electrocuted her. He stretched her on the rack, like beyond the, like she's had shoulder problems and like back problems for the rest of her life. I'm sure. And that's just like to say, least. This is like toy box killer shit. It is. It's very reminiscent. It's very reminiscent of toy box killer and it's very reminiscent of like you said, the Cleveland kidnappings. It's like a mishmash of all of them. Yeah. So on January 25th, 1978, we're eight months into her captivity. And Cameron comes down with Janice to the basement. Now, he told Colleen to take off her blindfold, which immediately she's probably like, why? Oh, I'd be like I'm going to die now.

If I'm going to see your face, like that means you're killing me or who knows. You're either killing me or you are never planning on letting me leave. Like, this is the end. Right. Yeah. And that's exactly what was going on. So she takes off her blindfold and he hands her a contract. No.

The contract stated that she would now be known as K, the letter K, and that she was his property. She was to refer to him as sir or master. And she was supposed to do anything he wanted her to. There's a ton of crude things in there and cruel things that I'm not going to go into all of it. but I'll name a few things. She was never to cross her legs in front of him. She was not allowed to wear underwear. She also had to wear a collar for identification purposes.

And we'll get into that in a second. And those are the three that I'm going to mostly focus on. This reminds me of like 50 shades of gray. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like non-willing. But with like a non-willing participant.

Right. Now the contract actually came from an underground newspaper. Like it was something that was a, apparently going on in that world. And Cameron realized, oh, this is brilliant. So he tried different ways of duplicating it. And finally, he settled on having Janice type it up on her typewriter. And then he went by the alias Michael Powers. And she, Janice, was to sign the contract as a witness. Okay. Okay. Now, he made the header of the contract using calligraphy stencils that he had bought solely for this project. He's extra as fuck. Extra as fuck. He really is. He's also, unfortunately,

very handy. And yeah. He builds everything that he has put Colleen in. He's built. That sucks that he uses that for that. Yeah, because he could be a lot better. So to get Colleen to believe this whole thing is real, I mean, she's probably so terrified that he didn't even have to, but he needs to wrap her mind in terror.

So he tells her about the company. Okay? According to Cameron, the company was an underground organization that traded around enslaved females and made them lifelong sex slaves. He told Colleen that he had been raised in the company, actually, and that his father and brother were fellow members. If she tried to escape, the company would find her. If she tried to tell her family, the company would kill the family that she told and recapture her. And honestly, I get why this would be easy to convince someone of, because it's like, sex trafficking is a thing. It's like, this thing. It's like, this.

is, if I heard that and I was in that situation, I'd be like, yeah, this is 100% true. Well, Andy, I think he showed her an article from one of the magazines. So she's like, oh, my God, like, this is real. Oh, I believe that. Yeah. Yeah. And to even further solidify her belief, he told her that Janice had actually tried to escape. At this point, she didn't know Janice by Janice. He used a different name. And he said that when she was running away, she flagged down a police officer. And the police officer, she thought was going to drive her home. But the police officer was actually part of the company. Oh, fuck. So he picked her up and returned her. And he and the other members nailed her to a

cross-like structure through her knees and hands and tortured her, obviously, and that he had been the one to save her. And she underwent a ton of surgeries to fix her hands, but her knees were still messed up. And while he's telling her this, Janice is standing next to him wearing a knee brace. Because in all reality, Janice actually had a knee condition that was like, I think it was like congenital. Ken genital. Yeah. I think her dad, like dad passed down some kind of conditioned with her knee. So that's the real reason she was wearing a brace. But Colleen didn't know that. So it just seemed like further proof that there was no way out of this. My goodness. So what was she supposed to do? This is grotesque. She signs the contract. And immediately he puts a homemade collar on her

and gives her an identification card that he had made but sealed with like the company seal to look effective. Wow. Yeah. Again, I say he's extra. And then he just leaves her in the workroom. Oh, yeah. Okay. So signing the contract did allow for some quote unquote freedom. She was allowed upstairs to cook for the family. Oh, how nice. Yeah, right? She could work in the gardens. She had to clean the children's homes and just the home in general. And of course, had to oblige to any sexual activity that Cameron wanted when he wanted. And he would actually do like drills with her where he would like say a certain word and she had to strip naked and be in whatever position that he wanted her to be in right away within seconds. Wow. And if she didn't do it fast enough, he would abuse her for like hours. Okay. Now during this

period, she was mostly allowed to sleep in the workroom, which is a better place to sleep than the box, but no place to sleep at all. Now, for a few days, she was kept in the work room without anyone coming down to give her, because usually they would give her leftovers from dinner and a glass of water. And sometimes if she, like, didn't eat all of it, he would force her to eat it. Oh. Yeah. But she didn't get her meals for a couple days. And she's hearing a lot of commotion upstairs.

So she's like, what the fuck is going on? Now, Cameron came down suddenly one night, put her in the headbox and led her outside, like super fast. And she was to lay down on Janice's lap while they drove. So she had no idea where they're going. And she probably thinks this is it. Oh. So finally, they end up at a mobile home in like a pretty secluded neighborhood. And Cameron told Colleen that this was their new place. So they moved to a more secluded neighborhood because there was less neighbors. And the house that they were living in before was rented. So like landlords could drop by

at any moment. My gosh. So he was like, this isn't conducive to me having a slave. So I should not move. Yeah. So they moved. So he leads her inside to what he told her was he and Janice's bedroom. and he points out this huge bed in the room that he built himself. He's like, this is our bed. Why don't you look underneath it? So there was a small entryway on the bottom of the bed that could be covered, but for now was open so Cameron could show Colleen. This was where the box he kept her in would be placed now. And how she got into the box was she'd have to crawl through the entryway into the box. Oh, I hear. Yeah. So there were times that Colleen was kept to the box for months at a time only being allowed out to eat or empty. She would have to use a bedpan

in the box. So she would be let out to eat and empty that. And obviously for Cameron. But in 1981, there was actually a long stretch of time where she didn't stay in the box. And this was, but there's, and throughout the trial, there's like a doctor that gets brought in. He's like a psychologist. And he says, there's certain things that captors will do. And they will give you freedom, like unexplained. And you think that you've done something good, but it's just so they can take it away without explanation. So you just never know what's going to happen. They're just so, they, yeah, that makes sense because it's like if they're, if they're giving you consistency in a routine, then you're expecting and you become comfortable with your,

even if it's a fucked up routine, it's a routine that you can expect what's happening. Your mind starts to cope somehow. Yeah, your mind starts like just kind of ground on earth for a minute. But then if they're constantly just ripping you out of that routine, you never. or bad and then doing a whole different thing. That's keeping you in a constant state of like alarm, terror, panic, terror. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. Wow. So in 1981, like I said, she got more quote-unquote freedoms. She was allowed to work in the garden a lot of the time. And she was actually even allowed to go jogging. Now, this started because I'm not, I don't know if she asked if she could go for a run or like he

wanted her to run, but he drove her out to this, like, very secluded area and told her to run. And then if she stopped, he said that he was going to, like, hit her with the car or something. So then she grew to, like, enjoy jogging, like, later eventually. So she was allowed to go jogging without him at some points. Wow. But that's how hard he had, like. And he put the company, he, like, shoved it down her throat. So she knew, like.

So she didn't. Wow. Yeah. And, well, like, I'm going to get into it in this little portion. So on one occasion, she was actually even allowed to go to a bar with Janice where they met some guys and went back to these guys' house. Because at this point, Janice and Cameron's relationship is like somewhat open because she can, he has his person. I was going to say. Yeah.

But like we were just saying, Colleen never tried to escape because there was always the reminder that the company was watching. She was told that the phones were tapped, that there was constant surveillance on the house. and even that there were some company members who lived in their new neighborhood. Wow. Yeah. So she grew really close to the children who, because now there's two kids. And they know her as K. So like she basically got an entirely new identity.

And they just like knew that this woman like sometimes pops up in their house? Yeah. She was basically like their babysitter. She would babysit them at night while Janice was working because Janice got a night job. She was like waitressing. My goodness. And because Cameron didn't. feel like watching the kids, he would have Kay do it. Because Kay's right there. He's,

yeah, that's his slave. Yeah, you're here for what I need you for. Yeah. Um, so she also didn't during this period have to sleep in the box anymore. They would, quote unquote, let her sleep in the back bathroom, but she would be chained to the toilet. Wow. And actually, um, there was one occasion where one of the little girls walked in to the bathroom and like saw her there. And obviously Cameron didn't like didn't get mad at the kid. He got mad at Colleen and like flipped out on her and obviously beat her. Because that's obviously her fault. But she would have to lock the door from the inside of the bathroom, like from that point forward. Wow. So she would like lock herself in the bathroom because she's so she's so brainwashed. Brainwashed at this point. And eventually like the later on during the

trial, the defense tried to use that as like, well, she. Well, she didn't leave. Right. And it's like, yeah. Would you? Because that's, that's just her being like, well, this is great. So I'm just going to stay. Yeah, for sure. I love it here. Clearly she is broken. Yeah. Now this will blow your. mother eff in mind. Oh, no. Eventually, Colleen convinced Cameron to let her call her family. He let her call her family. Oh. Because he knows that she's not going to say anything or else she thinks he's going to kill her. So she did call the family and he told her if she wanted to go see them that he could arrange it, but it would take some time because he'd have to convince the company that she wasn't going to tell her family. Oh my God. And she wouldn't try to escape. And he said,

you know, they might even want to test you. Oh my God. So the day comes... I hate that this guy is thought of everything. It's the things that he thought of. Like, we're going to talk about one right now. I'm just like, your mind is the darkest place in the whole entire universe. And what a waste of a mind. Right. Like, that could have gone about a billion other places if it was not evil. This guy that like can barely read is thinking of these things. Because even like little things, thinking they might want to test you. Yeah, or even just giving her. Another layer of like, so don't try anything because they might even be testing you. Right. Or even give her like the card, like, just to like further. Yeah. It's just, wow. It's nuts. So the day comes to go visit her family.

He arranges it. And it happened in March of 1981. But they had to stop at the company headquarters first. Stop. Yes. So Cameron drove out to Sacramento. He had told her all along. The company headquarters are in Sacramento. And he stopped in front of some buildings. That, look to be like office buildings. So he's like, I have to go in first and see what they need and then I'll come get you. So when he came back, he like stayed in there for a while and she's probably sitting in the car like, what the fuck is about to happen to me? Like, are they watching? I just want to see my family. Yeah. So when he came back, he said, they actually don't need to see you. You got off pretty easy. But then he said to her, uh, the secretary says good luck. Like,

what? What? So Colleen then, like they drive out to see her family and she just shows up unannounced And her family was like, what the fuck? Oh, hi. But they don't say, like, really, where have you been? I mean, they do. But, like, they don't press it too much because they're just happy that she's alive. Yeah. So she told them very little.

She said that she and Michael, aka Cameron, were engaged and that he was taking a computer course out this way. So she decided that's when it would be the perfect time to visit. Oh, good. Because I was going to say, like, I understand, like, just being excited that she's there. But, like, tell me that they got some kind of excuse. I was like, because I would need to know. something. Yeah, absolutely. Now, but like I said, they didn't want to ask too many questions, because this is the first time they've seen her in years and they don't want to ruin it.

But they later said that they suspected that she was in a cult. Like, they thought that's why she'd been gone. Yeah, I could understand that. Yeah. So by this point, her parents had actually been divorced and remarried. And Colleen even had younger half siblings that she didn't know about. Man. So she, like, got to enjoy some time with them. I like don't want to say enjoy. But Cameron actually let her go to church with her mother. and her sister, but then he suddenly called her and said it was time to go. Now, when he told her that they were going to go out and see her family, he made it seem like it was going to be for a weekend. So she was like really upset when it was only a 24-hour visit. But it's like, what is she going to do

about it? Yeah, she has no power here. Right. And she wanted to tell them what was happening. But remember, he had told her the company would not only like beat the shit out of her, like she couldn't even fathom what they were going to do to her, but whoever she told would be killed. Yeah, kill her whole family. So what is, like, I just said, what is she supposed to do? And he made it like, we stopped at the company headquarters. They know where we are. They know how long we're going to be here. So if she does try to tell them, it's like they're watching. Right. That's what, yeah. Right. Under his watchful eye. Mm-hmm. So she said her goodbyes and she later on she remembered like really wanting to tell her mom like right then and there. Oh my God, that hurts my soul. But couldn't. So she heads back to the trailer with Cameron.

Now when they got back, Cameron told her she'd be going back into the box. Now remember, she just had a year of freedom. She's thinking like this box shit is over with. Nope. So he raped her and put her back in the box. Wow. And she was actually let out to say goodbye to the kids and some of the neighbors. Because at this point, she had been like out jogging and the neighbors knew her as like Kay the babysitter.

Oh my God. Yeah. And she had become really friendly with this couple. I think their name was the copas. And the copas like kind of like thought something was going on, but they didn't really know what to do about it. How would you ever... Right. But they were later brought to trial to, like, testify.

Wow. Yeah. So, you know, she wanted to tell all of them what was going on, but she couldn't. So she told them all that she was moving away. And he told her, if she let anything out that was happening, the company would retaliate and shit would go down. I can't. So this was the longest time, period of time that she spent in the box. And she said about this, I learned I could go anywhere in my mind.

You could just remove yourself from the real situation going on and you go somewhere else. You go somewhere pleasant around people you love. Whatever makes you happy. Yeah. So this is 1981 that she gets put back in the box. 1984 rolls around. Oh, my God. So for a three-year period, she was literally let out to eat and for when he wanted.

She's just under a bed in a box. And that's the other thing. She's under their bed, everyone. Yeah. This couple is sleeping on top of her. What? my mind can't even go there. What? It can't even go there.

No. Like this is so grotesque that I can't, my brain does not even see it as a real situation. Three years later, she's out in 1984 and Janice takes her around the entire neighborhood like Kay's back and now Kay's back in the kids' life and they're super happy. And Colleen's relieved, but obviously very confused about why she was let out after three years. Well, just to keep fucking with her. But there was also another reason.

Oh, good. Cameron wanted to build an underground dungeon and he needed help. Oh, okay. Yeah. I thought it was something crazy. Yeah. There you go. It's just a dungeon.

Yeah. Just an underground dungeon. That she has to help build. So they would go out at night and he had like this small shed and they would dig together until the space they dug out was big enough for a room. Now Cameron taught Colleen how to lay bricks and when they were finished, this was Colleen's new place. There was a chair for her to sleep. There was room for Karen to. there's Karen, Cameron, to carry out his abuse on her. The wall, the ceiling was strong enough to, like, hold the chains and everything.

Wow. He's a really good builder. I was going to say, Jesus. I can, I, like, wrapped this up in, like, a neat little bundle, but they let, it took a while. They laid cement. They did the bricks. They did the bricks. They had to wait for the bricks to dry. Yeah. I mean, you can't just dig a hole and, like, stick some bricks in there and be like, that's a room now. No. It took a while. A lot. But that goes into that. Finally, they finished and that's what it was. Now, the dungeon seemed like a way better way to store, Colleen. And Cameron told her that eventually there would be more girls down here with her. And actually, they built them, like they called them windows, but obviously they didn't look out to anything. But the reason that they built the windows was because eventually he said he would expand. Oh. Yeah.

That's nice. And the reason he wants to expand is because someday there's going to be four other girls down here and you're going to be the one to train them, he told her. Oh. Yeah. And he also told her that someday he intended to marry her. No. And like she was supposed to have his children. No.

And that eventually he would get her her own trailer where she could live. So nice. Like. So nice of you. What? Man. Colleen obviously. What a delusional fuck.

It's crazy. So obviously she didn't love the dungeon. That was like such a stutter. But it was more spacious than what she had been used to. And she wasn't sweltering all summer long. Like she had been in the box. Yeah. She's in a box underneath a bed during the summer months. Like for those three years, she was either completely freezing underneath there or super, super hot. Oh. And he,

they describe it in the book. He made like a ventilation hole and put a hair dryer in there on like the cool setting for like quote unquote ventilation. But really all it did was like the noise drove her crazy. It didn't cool anything down. No, of course not. The cool setting of a hair dryer is not like an air conditioning. No, it's to seal your hair follicle. But, oh, you've, so she's, it's better. So when it gets colder, he puts a heater down there. And Janice and Cameron at one point gifted Colleen with a Bible that she had asked for, so she was able to read that down there. But when the fall and winter came, the basement started to flood.

Oh. Yeah. So that was one problem. And Cameron taught Colleen how to vacuum the water up. Oh. Okay. Yeah. So.

I keep saying, oh, but it's like, I just, I don't, I don't even know what else is saying. No. So he's like. We just have to vacuum the water up. Like, we'll figure out a way around this. Yeah. But then they ran into an even bigger problem. One day, the two daughters, because there's fucking children that live here, and their cousin were playing hide and seek outside.

And there was like a house rule that you were never to go in any of the sheds. But their cousin was like, oh, it's fine if we'd go. They're kids. Yeah. So they end up in the shed. And Janice comes out and sees the two of them looking because how you got into the dungeon was that there was like a hole. you had to like climb in through that hole and that was like the entrance and the exit. So Janice walks out and sees these little girls peering down the hole.

Oh, just being like, why? What's up with that? What's in there? So I guess it wasn't clear whether they saw Colleen or not, but yeah, that was obviously a huge problem. So now Janice and Cameron are worried that their niece is going to tell her parents, but nothing came of it. What the fuck? Nothing came of it. And I mean, the dungeon was no longer where they kept Colleen at this point,

and she was put in the box again. So that's what came of it. But this time she was only put in the box for a couple of weeks while they made sure no one came looking. So when no one did come looking, they let her out of the box. And now they told her she would need to get a job to payoffs like some fine that the company had charged Cameron. And he was like, I am already working and I can't afford to pay it, so you have to get a job now. What? Yeah. So Colleen got a job at King's Lodge as a maid. She was hired by the owner Doris Myron, I believe, is how you say it. And eventually, they became like super close with each other. Doris obviously knew Colleen as Kay, just like everyone else at that time. And she definitely thought, like, Kay's living situation was weird. Because Kay said... Oh, she had no idea.

No, she had no idea. Because at this point, Kay's sleeping in the... Oh, my sorry. Sorry, Colleen is sleeping in the living room. And she says that to Doris. And she's like, oh, yeah, like, Janice is like a sister. But, like, I also give her and Cameron my paychecks. And like, so Doris is like, what? So she's like, yeah, this is strange. Like, this is a weird arrangement. But she's like, I don't know what I can do about it other than like have it, have myself be someone that she feels she can talk to when she needs it. Wow. Yeah. So Colleen, like I said, still believing in the company, never tells her boss too much personal information. And now at this time, Janice and Colleen had like a very strange relationship, obviously.

And whenever she was let out in the beginning, her and Colleen would fight a lot because Janice was like jealous of Colleen. Oh, I was, I was waiting for that to be a thing. That was like a whole thing. I didn't think this was going to be like peace and harmony amongst them. No, and that was a major reason why in 1981 she was put back in the box. Oh, okay. So, but yeah, or at the end of 1981, she was put back in the box.

But at this time, they'd gotten over that and they were really starting to buy. bond over Bible study because Janice was like a big believer in the Bible and at this point, so was Colleen. Yeah. I'm going to keep my thoughts on that and how backwards that is. I'm going to tell you the reason why Cameron. How the fuck can you say that you're a follower of the Bible? Well, because Cameron like twists it and I'll get into it. Of course. So they would read their Bible together and while they read their Bible, they had to wear ski masks over their face like or like beanies, like ski beanies, because Cameron called them their prayer hats because I honestly know like nothing about the Bible and I didn't look too far into it. But I guess like ladies back in

the day were like not supposed to be seen while they were praying. Oh. Yeah. So he made them wear these like hats wild. Wow. Aren't those called like buclavas or beclavas? You're asking the wrong person. I'm going to look it up while you're doing it. So while they're studying the Bible together, They realize that they have a lot more in common than they thought. And they specifically paid attention to the story in the Bible about Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar. Bala clava. Excuse me. They're called a Bala Clava.

Oh, okay. It's like a prayer hat. No, it's not a prayer hat. Like, it's not made for that. It's just like one of those. It's almost like a ski mask type of thing. Oh. Like, you know, what you would see like a robber wearing, you know, like that kind of thing.

That's what I pictured, a balaclava. There you go. Sorry for the interjection. No, no, no, it's totally fine. So, yeah, they're wearing their balaclavas. But like I said, they realized that they have more in common than they thought. And specifically, they paid attention to this story in the Bible about Abraham, Sarah, and I believe it's Hagar. So from what I read-

Not Sammy. No. So from what I read, Sarah and Abraham are married in the Bible. But Sarah can't have a baby. So she tells Abraham he can use her maid, Hagar, as a way to have a baby. and then they can all live together like copacetically. Wow. So it's pretty reminiscent of their situation.

Now Janice apparently leaned into this like full-fledged and would refer to herself as Sarah and call Colleen Hagar. Wow. I'm not sure. Sorry if I'm saying that wrong. They even started going to church together with their kids. Cameron didn't want to go. No. But they became close with the pastor, Pastor Dabney.

And now they're seven years into Colleen's imprisonment at this point when they start going to church. together. And Janice is becoming more and more stressed out about this entire thing. Essentially, she's like on the verge of a nervous breakdown because she knows that this whole thing is wrong. And I mean, I think getting closer and closer to Colleen probably and like realizing they had a lot in common. But starting to humanize their prisoners. It's really a problem. Exactly what it is. And I think it's getting to her conscience at this point. Because I mean, for a long time, she was just hidden away literally in a box. So she didn't really have to think about it, which my God. is a lot to even wrap your brain around.

But now she's chilling with her. Like 15-year-old Janice I feel bad for. And then later I'm like, fucking Janice. Well, you're both gross. I didn't get into it too much. But Janice was also being abused while Colleen was too. Yeah. He was still carrying out sex acts on her that she wasn't into.

Yeah. You know what? And that makes sense that she was like at least scared to go against him. Yeah. He was literally, like later on during the trial, they show pictures of her while she's pregnant, like hung from the ceiling. Oh. Yeah.

So, like, she's very much a victim. Oh. Yeah. That's why I didn't really paint her too badly in, like, any kind of light, because I personally think, I mean, you can take this however you want to, but I think she's also a victim. No, I mean, when you put it like that, yeah. Yeah.

Like, when you put together all the details of what's happening. Yeah. Obviously, what she was doing was not right, but I think that she was just way too scared to do anything else. Yeah. I think it's when you look at it through the eyes of just looking at her and being like, what you doing? Like you can't like you're an asshole. Right. You're just letting this woman go through this and like not doing anything. But then you look at it in the, in terms of abuse. Yeah. And she's also being abused. So she's

scared of this dude. Exactly. And she's also being brainwashed by him. She also thinks that she, if she says anything or helps this woman, that it's going to be her. Right. So you know what? You're right. Like you can be mad at her because it is kind of selfish that she's like, look at you just shifting my perspective midcase. You're welcome. Now, so yeah. Now the sermons that. Now, the sermons that pastor, Dabney would give, we're also not helping Janice because they're, she's like realizing that her husband is using the Bible against her. Because his whole thing was that woman was to do as her husband intended. That's what the Bible said. And he even started expressing to her that woman, a man could do whatever he wanted. Like man was supposed to have multiple wives. So he's like,

I want to have four more wives, actually. And you have no say in it. And you just need to let it happen. Yeah. That's what you're supposed to do. And she's like, actually the Bible doesn't say that. No. I don't know what the Bible says at all because I've never fucking read it, but... You know what? I haven't either. No. But I think it's one of those things that, you know, he's taking it to a dark place. Yeah. So enough was enough for Janice. And on August 9th, 1984, Janice rolls up to King's Lodge and heads into one of the rooms and just tells Colleen the truth while she's in the middle of like cleaning up this motel room. She says, the company's not real. No one's watching you. This is all. So he just told you all this. So he just told you all this. So

you wouldn't escape. Fucking Janice. I want you to be able to leave. So, like, we have to get out of here. Janice. Yeah. Seven years ago, that would have been awesome. But, like, all right.

All right. Okay. About time you came around. Better late than never, Janice. Yeah. Wow. So Colleen. That was like a plot twist.

I didn't know. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There's another plot twist later that you're going to shite. Oh, no. So Colleen couldn't tell Doris what was going on. So she had to finish her fucking day at work. Oh, my God.

Have you ever finished a shift at work where she's, you like know some shits going down or you've got like, you know, like you've got like a text that's very cryptic or something. Now imagine it to this degree. Yeah, I think a few episodes back I was, or on Scream, I was complaining about how I was dating this guy. And he like told me that he was going to break up with me, but like wasn't going to do it until after my shift basically. And like, I remember having to get through a 10 hour shift knowing that. I can't imagine getting through a 10 hour shift knowing that the entire past seven years was all a lie. That's of my like brutal impression. resentment. Wow. And like now what, where do we go from here? Turn all the lights on. Yeah. Like, where do we go? Yeah. So, Doris is like, can you finish your day at work? And Colleen's like, I see if, yeah. Oh, wow. So Colleen finishes her day. Janice comes to pick her up and she's like, let's go talk to pastor, Dabney. So they tell this man everything. And this man is like, you need to get the fuck out of there. Like go home right now, pack up all your shit and leave. Like,

Master Debbie. Why did you tell me all of that? Like, ah, ha, ha, ha. He's like, pack your shit up and get out of there. Direct quote. Not at all. He's like, pack everything that you own and get the heck up out of there. Child.

Yes. So the only problem, though, was this is at the end of the day. Cameron's almost done from, like, with his job and he's going to be home soon. So leave all your shit and just leave. But the kids. Oh, I keep forgetting there's kids involved. There's two children. Yeah.

And at this point, like you said, one is seven. and I don't know how old the other one was, but I don't think they're that far apart in age. My God. They would have to get through one more night. My God. Yeah. So Janice actually told Cameron that she wasn't feeling well that night and she was going to sleep in the living room with Colleen. Wow.

Yeah. Janet's like coming through all of a sudden. Janice, I know she is. Like really coming through. She is. She is. She is a clutch. She'll let us down in a minute.

Oh. So when Cameron leaves for work the next morning, the two of them pack everything up and they take the kids to Janice's parents. Now, Colleen weighed her options because she and Janice had actually talked about getting a place together, but that voice from the gas station was back and she was like, no, this isn't a good idea. No, we shouldn't continue this friendship after this. No, this is a very toxic friendship. This should be the end of this. Yeah, we should not communicate anymore. So she called her dad and he wired her money.

She didn't tell him everything, I think, on the phone, but she was like, I'm coming home and he wired her money for the bus fare. And I guess in the book they say she asked for $100. And he was like, are you sure that's enough? Like, I can send you however much you want. So he was probably just ecstatic. He's like, I will give you anything just come home. That she was coming home. But then she comes home and tells him everything.

And he's probably like, what? Yeah. Yeah. So before she left, before she gets on the bus home, she called Cameron. And she said, quote, I just wanted to tell you that I'm leaving, that I know you lied about everything and you can't keep me here anymore. Wow. Wow. Wow. And apparently he cried on the phone with her. I can't, I don't know. I have no, I have no words. It's wild. I'm speechless. It's wild. So when Colleen got home, she told her family everything and they were like, okay, on our way to the police now,

young miss. Like, let's go. Let's go. And she's like, no, no, no. Like Janice had asked her not to. And at this point, Colleen was like, I just want to move on. like I don't want to deal with this. But Janice had actually told Colleen that she felt like she could fix Cameron and that they both owed him that chance. Oh, Janice. We quote, owe him that chance, unquote. You brought me up, just to bring me right back down. Yeah.

So Janice only, oh, she's going to bring you even down, down her. She only spent a week with her parents before packing up her kids and taking them back to her husband. Smart. where she took him to church and she was like church will change him but it wasn't um she i guess one night she woke up and he was like awake and like just like super tense like she could feel how tense he was and she was like terrified so she was like let's go burn everything because i think she like thought like he's going to kill me like let's let's go light things on fire so it'll make you feel better well they burnt all of his bondage equipment all the magazines that he had um pictures that he had taken

of her and Colleen, like, they burned a ton of shit because, oh, by the way, he had a fucking dark room in the basement. Yeah. Of course he did. So he had, like, some film. And they thought they burned everything. But they did. I don't know.

But Cameron wasn't changing. And Janice was nearing an actual breakdown, getting closer and closer to just losing her shit every day. So she ended up telling a friend that she had recently made. I'm pretty sure this friend was like a receptionist at, like, a doctor's office. Oh, cool, cool. But they just became really close. So she told this new friend everything about Colleen and how she was trying to change her husband,

but it wasn't working and like everything. That's when you regret like striking up a conversation about like your favorite, you know. That's when you look in the mirror. And you're like, why do I have this face? Yeah. Why? Why am I approachable? Why you feel like you can spill stuff on me?

I don't understand that. We were just talking about that the other day. We were. I have one of those faces. The shit people tell me sometimes. Especially when I was hairdressing, I was like, and sometimes you're like, too much. So do you want to go a little shorter with the layers today? Help? No? Okay. Oy. Yeah. So her friend was like, you need to go to the police.

Yeah. And Janice was like, I don't know. So the friend was like, yeah, what's stopping him from doing this to your children? Like, they're getting older. They're both girls. The kids were both girls. Yeah. So, I mean, at this point, he hadn't done anything to them that anybody knew about, but he could be capable. Yeah. He's crazy. Look what he's capable of already. He's keeping a girl in a box for seven years. I wouldn't put anything past him. No. So at that point, it was the straw that broke the camel's back and Janice went to the police and she turned her husband in. Not only for the kidnapping and seven-year imprisonment of Colleen. Also for murder. All right. What? Excuse me? Yeah. And that's where we're, no, I'm just kidding. I was like, fuck you. So, re-elizabeth. I'm not sure how to say this. I looked at it. up and there was 42 different ways how to say it. I'm going to say, what did we agree? Spanicky. Spanicky. It's S-P-A-N-N-H-A-K-E. Spanicky. Or Spanaki. There's a lot of different pronunciations out there. But we're going to call her Marie Elizabeth. She was 19 years old, and on January 31st,

1976, she accepted a ride from Janice and Cameron. Oh. Yeah. Marie known as, I believe it's Marlis, because it's like Marie Elizabeth. So it's, it's, It's like her two names convulging. It could be Marliz or Marleys. Okay. I'm going to say Marlise because it's easier. Yeah. So she didn't know the area well.

She had moved from California to, excuse me, she had moved to California from Cleveland in December of 1975 to live with her fiancé, and his name was John Baruth. Now, the reason she was walking that day was because her and John were out on a shopping trip, and they had gotten into like some kind of fight, and she decided to walk home. Oh. Yeah. Now, when she didn't return home that night, John was like super worried. And by February 2nd, she still hadn't shown up and nobody had heard from her. So he went to file a missing person's report. And actually, for a long time, he was considered a person of interest. But he passed polygraphs and there was no evidence that he had done anything, no evidence at all really of anything. So they had to let him go. But what really happened is that Cameron was out hunting with Janice and they both spotted Marie. And they drove her. her to where she asked to be driven. But as she was getting out of the car, Cameron grabbed her by her hair

and pulled her back into the car. What? Yes. So he abducted her in like the same exact manner as Colleen. He drove out to a remote area. He held her at knife point and he used the headbox on her too. He and Janice even stopped for fast food on the way home just like when they kidnapped Colleen. What a weird fucking tradition, like ritual. It's because they're waiting for the sun to go down. Yeah. So, but it's all. also just like fucked. But when they got back home, Cameron took Marie into the basement, hung her up, assaulted her. And actually, this is horrifying, tried to cut her vocal cords. What? Yes. Tried to cut her vocal cords. And she later asked for a pencil and paper because she wanted to tell him

something, but she couldn't speak. So she wrote on the paper something like, I'll give you whatever you want if you just let me go. Or like, I saw two things. I saw that. And then I saw. I saw that. And then I saw, let me call my boyfriend so he'll give you like money or whatever you want. Wow. Yeah, but Cameron didn't. So according to Janice, he shot Marie in the stomach with a pellet gun twice and then strangled her and he killed her. So Janice thought that he killed her because he had lost control of the situation because I guess she was bleeding a lot, obviously bleeding a lot after he had tried to cut her vocal cords and he just felt like he had like messed up. So his way of fixing it was killing her. Yeah. Wow. So he goes up and gets Janice and is like, we need to clean this up. So he made her roll up Marie's body with him in like a tarp. They drove out to Lassen Park in Redding and dug a grave to place her body in. And then they just left her there. But not before Cameron took her gold watch. And I guess he would wear it every single day. But it got destroyed in like machinery at the mill at one point. My God. And she's just telling like a police this like, well,

And at this point, this girl has been missing for like over seven years. Yeah. They're like, what? Like, oh my God. Yeah. So she, Janice tried to help investigators find Marie's body. But when they had buried her, it was snowing. And now she was like, I don't know where she is.

So they were never able to recover her body. Oh, that's even worse, I feel like. Yeah. And so eventually the, like, when the trial gets going, the prosecutors call John Baruth. And they're like, hey, just so you know, like, we're pretty sure, like, we have the guy that killed her, like, just so you're aware. And he was, like, so thankful for that. And he was like, thank you so much because Marie's parents died thinking that he was the one that killed her. Oh, that's terrible. Yeah. Oh, my God. And he's like, wow. Yeah. Wow. So this guy also murdered

someone. All right. Yeah. So Cameron, and actually, I'm going to go back to that a little bit later at the end. So just, it's not a fun thing, but it's like a interesting thing. So Cameron was arrested on November 18th, and he was charged with multiple counts of kidnapping, sodomy, and rape. But like I said, they couldn't use the murder case because there's no body. There's no evidence. There's nothing. Yeah. This is just something's weird. They know we did it, but. So the judge on the case, Clarence Knight said Hooker was, quote, the most dangerous psychopath I have ever dealt with, and that he is the opposite of what one seems. He will be a danger to women as long as he is alive, and I intend to sentence the maximum possible. Yeah. So,

the defense did their best to make Colleen look like she was a willing to participate. They even had Cameron go on the stand to defend himself at one point. And he said when he abducted her, he was just trying to get her off drugs. He had found drugs in her purse. And then he kept her and was like trying to help her. He did plead guilty to kidnapping. He said like he wanted to kidnap somebody. But after that, he said their relationship was like platonic.

After I kidnapped her. It got super. It was so real. It's like we just hit it off. Yeah, we did. But the problem, it was, it was a tough case. And I'm not, I didn't go super into the case because I, like, it's like you with the Willie Picton case.

Yeah. I really want you guys to go read the book. Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. There's just some books that like give you such a wealth of information. Yeah. And you want to use the, you need, they give you the bones that you need.

Right. You don't want to take their meat. You don't want to take their meat. Yeah. Because the thing about this case is I did get a lot of information from just like online articles, but the best information I got was from this book. And it's amazing. Yeah.

So like I said, the defense tried to paint her horribly. But what was tough was that Colleen had actually written letters and like spoken on the phone with Cameron after she got home. Wow. Yeah. And I mean, some of them did seem like love letters. But then they had like psychiatrists and stuff like that come on trial and were like, yeah, like she was brainwashed.

Yeah. It takes a while to get out of that. Psychology is a funny thing. Yes. But luckily the prosecution did a better job. They, like, caught Cameron in a couple lies while he was on stand. He would, like, contradict himself. Of course.

And he ended up receiving a hundred and four years in prison. Yay. Yeah, yeah. Now, he actually called Colleen three days after his conviction, and he said, this is Cameron. I called so you can chew my butt out or say whatever you want to me. So you can chew my butt out? Chew my butt out. Yeah.

And she was like, I don't have anything to say to you. I don't want to chew your butt out. Don't call me ever again. Fuck off. And actually, Christy McGuire. who like I said co-wrote the book, The Perfect Victim, she like made it so that he would never be able to contact Colleen again. Good, because he shouldn't be able to. And Janice filed for a divorce in January of 86. Wow. And by all accounts, like, I think Colleen definitely struggled a little bit.

She had like, she had like, she had children and stuff like that and she was able to move on, but it seems like she's doing a lot better. She had like, I said, like shoulder and back pain for the rest of her life. Yeah. And the thing that I was going to say is save for last. So that's the end of it. But when I was looking into the, Marie Elizabeth kidnapping. The first thing that came up was like this psychic thing. So this woman, I believe her name was Jody Foster, which is hilarious. And she had a daughter, Hannah. And they had moved into Marie's old apartment that like she had shared with John. And, oh, that just scared me. The door closed downstairs. And her daughter, Hannah, started talking about my friend Mar-Liz,

Mar-Liz. St. And started like drawing pictures of her. And all the pictures she would draw was the girl and she had like her like flipped hair because it was like the 70s. Yeah. And in a white sweater and like I believe blue jeans. I'm not sure what color jeans. But that's how she would draw her. Wow. And then so she like the little girl would draw her friend. And then Jody herself started having all these like crazy dreams and stuff like very vivid dreams. And in one of the dream, one of the last dreams that she had in the apartment was a girl being brought down into a basement hung up and shot twice in the stomach. just like Janice had told the investigators. That shit is so weird.

And so this lady didn't know anything about this case and thought that she was literally going insane. Like, yeah. She had actually called the police at one point. She was like, I don't know what to report to you, but like. But I feel like I have to tell you. So she ended up moving out of the apartment. And when she was either moving out of the apartment or she was like talking to a neighbor about something. And the neighbor said to her, oh, you have Marie Elizabeth.

Spanakis, that's her apartment. Oh my God. And he was like other people who have lived in that apartment have had those dreams. Wow, that's insane. Yes. That's so spooky. Isn't that bongers? Ah, this case.

So yeah, that is... This case has everything terrible. Everything terrible. And to be honest with you, that was really just an overview because it would break your mind in half if you weren't a willing participant to hear everything. Wow. Yeah. That was insane.

Seriously, seriously, like, I think it's $2 on Kindle Cloud Reader, and you can use that on your computer. You don't need a Kindle. Go get the perfect victim on Amazon. It is such a good read. I read it in two days. There's so many true crime books that are like just grossly underappreciated. Seriously. And once you find them for these kind of cases, it's just like, whoa. And what I like about this book, I'm a big fan of books. And actually, it's like the one that you're writing, that go back and forth with the point of view. And this book goes, and I think a book like this is necessary to go back and forth because it starts off with like Colleen getting abducted and stuff. And then it goes into who Cameron and Janice are. And then it actually like it starts talking about all the abuse that she went through. But then it breaks into like when the defense and the prosecution and the investigators start working on the case. I like that. And then it goes back to like and then it was 1981 and this is what was happening. But it keeps going back and forth between those two things. Yeah, that's kind of how on the farm is with. It's, it does that too. It like goes back and then it will go into like what was happening at the time.

I like that. Because with a case like Willie Picton or a case like this, it's just so brutal that you almost need that break. Yeah. And you need to have like a sense of like the environment, the time frame, the other shit that was going down at that time just to get like a full feeling of like enveloping yourself in it. Yeah. And they do a really good job with that stuff. Yeah. Like these authors and journalists.

And yeah. So that was unreal. Bunkers. You did a great job presenting it. Thank you. I had no idea that there was also a murder involved. I had no idea. I've heard about the girl in the box. Me too. Me too. Like a million times and I knew an overview of it. I never knew that he was a murderer and is not unfortunately in jail for murder. Wow. But they know that he's in jail forever. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Patronusus is a doozy. Yeah. It's for everyone. Oh, oh. I was like, this is for everyone. No, but they picked it. At the end of the case, I'm just like brain dead. This is for everyone. It is. All-inclusive.

It's just chosen by your patronesis. Exactly. So, yeah. And then luckily, your third episode is going to be a little lighter. It is. It's still pretty bleak. Lighter and like, it's not really lighter. It's not lighter.

It's just different. It involves some lighter material. Yes. It has like an element where you go, yeah. Oh. And then it goes. Oh. Oh.

And then it really ends on a... And who knows, we might have a special guest. We might. Yeah. So just stay tuned. Yeah. All right. Well, in the meantime, while you're staying tuned,

follow us on Instagram. At Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. At a morbid podcast. Send us a Gmail. Morbid Podcast at gmail.com. And we hope you keep listening. We hope you.

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