Morbid - Lizzie Borden and other Dark Nursery Rhymes (with Special Guests Sabrina & Corinne from Two Girls One Ghost)

Episode Date: March 18, 2024

Sabrina & Corinne from Two Girls One Ghost join us on this week's episode to talk about the dark histories behind childhood nursery rhymes. Fresh off of our ghost hunting experience at the Lizzie Borden house, we talk about the childhood rhyme and where it went wrong, as well as talk about others that SEEMED so innocent! Don't forget to check the episode on the Two Girls One Ghost feed where we talk about our ghost hunting experiences! It was WILD! Thank you to the wonderful Dave White of Bring me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesBurton-Hill, Clemency. 2015. The dark side of nursery rhymes. June 10. Accessed February 6, 2024. https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20150610-the-dark-side-of-nursery-rhymes.Hazlett, Lisa A. 2009. "The use of British nursery rhymes and contemporary technology as venues for creating and expressing hidden literacies throughout time by children, adolescents, and adults." Forum on Public Policy: A Journal of the Oxford Round Table. Opie, Iona, and Peter Opie. 1952. The Oxofrd Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes. Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press.Roberts, Chris. 2005. Heavy Words Lightly Thrown: The Reason Behind the Rhyme. Sheridan, WY: Gotham Books. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. Hey, we're back. Hey, we're back with a brand new case. Except it's not even a brand new case. It's not a brand new case. We've been living in this case for two whole episodes already.

Yeah, we're about to get evicted after the end of this. John Edward Robinson is not going to quit. He is not legit, but he's definitely not going to quit. Eventually, he's got to. But don't worry at the end, he's forced into retirement. So there's that. Well, we were like, is there any true crime news? And I was searching here on my little phone thing.

And I was like, oh, okay, there is some true crime news. Some local true crime news. Yes. In Cape Cod, there is apparently a man. Daniel Gorman, 52 years old. He lives in West Falmouth. And he has been following young women leaving restaurants. He followed a girl home last night, apparently.

He drives a black Chevy truck. The plate number is 6GP 914. I guess he was questioned by the police, but they didn't have enough to hold him on. But there was a 16-year-old girl who was walking home from her job in Falmouth, and a black SUV began following her. They asked if she wanted to ride home. She said no. And then the car stopped, got out, and the person was literally trying to pull her into the car. And the vehicle was described as a black SUV that makes a squeaking noise.

the operator was a white male approximately six feet tall, 40 to 50 years old, deep voice, black t-shirt, dark pants, and short if not balding hair. So please be on the lookout for that, local ladies and-careful in Cape Cod. And everybody, like, be on the lookout. Yeah, in the Falmouth area. So creepy. Don't ever try to drag me into your car. I'll mace you in the eyeballs. Oh, that's a nightmare. That's a nightmare. Go get mace if you live in the Cape.

Yeah, if you live in the cape. In the cape. Where are you from? In the cape. I'm from inside of the cape. But that, yeah, that's really scary. Hopefully that doesn't happen again. Life is so scary.

I'm glad that we have these ways of like spreading this though and being like, don't. Yeah. Don't get in that car. Seriously. Don't talk to that dude. But still. That's terrifying. But you know what?

We got you through two parts of this asshole too. Don't talk to this dude either. Don't. You don't have to worry about it because he's put away, so it's cool. But that's a spoiler alert. Let's get into it. At the end of part two, he had convinced several women. He had convinced Isabella Luica.

He had convinced Suzette Trouton. He had convinced Catherine Clampett. He had gotten Debbie and Sheila face to come out to Kansas from different states, promising them jobs, promising them new lives, promising to take care of them. Sheila and Debbie were a mother-daughter, 15-year-old disabled in a wheelchair with Spina Biffitt a daughter. That one ruined me. That he promised to take care of, send to a special school, help her with medical bills, all that stuff. It's just, this dude is fucking terrible.

Evil to the core. And now he has, the last victim that he has basically made vanish in to thin air is Suzette Trouton. The last we saw him was he had gone through all her computers. and he had put her stuff in storage. She gave her dogs away. And he had told her mother, Carol, that he was going to be jet-setting her, you know, through Europe and all that good stuff.

Lies. But her mother immediately knows that these emails and letters that she's getting are not from Ceres. Not from Susette. Of course not. She knows it. Now, her mother called the police in late March because she was that convinced.

She was like, something's wrong here. Yeah. And they talked all the time. Right. At least once a day, if not several times. That's so heartbreaking. So the police started looking for her, and they found her dogs. They did track down the two dogs that had been adopted out.

And when her mother found that out, she said that's when the panic button went off because she said she never, ever would have willingly giving up those dogs. It never would have happened. No. And then they found out that her stuff was in a storage facility called Store for Less, Store More for Less. That was weird. That set off alarm bells. They noticed Robinson also had a unit there in the same storage facility under his name.

And they made the connection immediately. Because again, they've been looking at this guy. They know that people are disappearing around him, that women are. So they're already thinking this guy's a crete. So they started looking into this because he's made a ton of waves. I mean, first we had Paula Godfrey. We had Lisa Stasi and her daughter. Now we have all these missing women.

Like, he's making waves. Yeah, he's making tsunamis. And he's been able to get away with them. all this. Like, people haven't looked too far into him because he's so far picked women that he can, he like makes a relationship with. He's convinced them to do these things that will give complete control to him. And then he's also got all these different ways of like housing them. So it's hard to keep track of where they are. Well, and just ways of like forging their names. Yeah. And just like he gets them to write their names on things and addresses of friends and family. So he's able to keep

giving them these backgrounds and keep giving them these stories of where they are and people aren't questioning it and most of them are of an age where if they decided to take off they're taken off we can't do anything about it so carol also did something different she called robinson herself yes she was able to do this because suzette had actually gone against what robinson had told her Robinson told all of these ladies never to tell people his name, not any of his contact stuff. He didn't want any of that. But Suzette had smartly given his information to her mother. Yeah, good.

We love a mama bear. He said he was like shocked when she caught like really shocked that she had done that. He told Carol, her mother, that she, that Suzette had rejected him and run off with a man named Jim Turner. They're super happy. She didn't want my job offer. She didn't want to be with me. Like they're happy. Yeah, right.

She knows her daughter. And he had said that she was sailing around in, sailing around Mexico with Jim Turner. That's what he told her. Sure. So she was like, yeah, that doesn't sound right at all. So she was like, you know what? I'm going to call the fucking police if you don't tell me where she is. And it scared the shit out of him.

Good. So this is when shit gets good. This is when shit starts unraveling for him. Because she's going to call the police. He knows this. So he's like, fuck. I'm like biting my lip right now. I'm like nervous.

I'm like, what's going to happen? I'm like, fuck. The other thing is, Suzette had made some really good friends in life and in the online world. Because remember, she was online a lot. She met a lot of people. She made lasting friendships. And in the BDSM community, she had some very good friends who were also like occasional lovers and whatever. And two of them in particular, one was named Lorre Remington.

That's his name. Her name. Excuse me. That's her name. L-O-R-R-E. L-R-R-R-Mington. Okay. What an awesome name.

That's a cool-ass name. And an awesome podcast. Go listen to Lour. Hey. And her friend, Tammy Taylor. They had all been very good friends. They had all, like, really formed a relationship. They had been, like, occasionally in relationships themselves between each other.

And they were super worried about her because these were also the friends that immediately had advised her against moving out there in the first place. They were not, they did not trust this whole thing. Right. You had said that her friends were, like, very skeptical. Yeah. And they were very concerned. that she was now nowhere to be found. They knew she wasn't talking to her mother all of a sudden,

or she was talking weirdly to her mother in emails and shit. It just wasn't her. And they were like, none of this is making sense. We know, Susette. This isn't her. So they talked to police. And they basically were like, they were like, here's what our relationship with her is. They outlined everything about it. And they said, we know that she was going out there to Kansas City. She was going to work for a guy. His name was, you know, John. And this guy is very active in the BDSM. community. And Lorre in particular said, I know where to find him online. And she was like, I've seen him a ton of times in those chat rooms. I've seen him since Suzette went out there in those chat rooms. He has propositioned everyone around me and me at different times. So she said,

if you want me to go undercover, I will go undercover in that chat room. I will talk to him. I will get as much information as I can and I will try to make him slip up. Lore fucking Remington. Fucking Ler Remington. motherfucking win. Did any of us for one second question? Never. Whether Lorne fucking Remington would go undercover and get this fucker. Lorre Remington was born to go undercover. Did any of us question it? I didn't. Came out of the womb with a fucking trench coat. She was ready. Ready. Ready to go. And she just offered this. That's cray cray. And this was one of those situations where they had never

been, they hadn't been dealing with this kind of like, basically an online serial killer who was like luring women over the internet to come to a different state to kill them. I mean, like you have said, the internet was brand spank and new. It was in its infancy. There wasn't even, um, fucking date line. Yeah, there you go. Not dateline. The one, was it date line?

The one, the under, and they, they, yeah, I know what you're talking about. To catch a predator. Thank you. Jesus Christ. I was like, what's happening? I was like, the, the, the this, this, this. The Chris Hanson thing. Yes.

Yes. So, yeah. So she, they had never used a civilian to go online undercover. They had obviously used, they knew, like, informants have always existed. But, like, online, this was just, like, a very different thing. Yeah. And John Douglas in the book says a lot, like, how new this was and how they were trying to navigate it very quickly, very efficiently and, like, make this work.

But it was all, again, brand spank and new. knew. So they were doing what they could. The 90s and the early aughts were just it, guys. There was such a time. I miss it. They were such a time. So basically, they were going to do a sting operation to get information about Suzette, but it was going to be a long one because they knew they weren't going to get him just to like spill shit right away. Yeah, you have to form like a relationship. He's the manipulative one. We're going to have to make sure you don't get played. Lorre is not going to get played. She's not getting played. Don't even play. So they went for it. And they connected online, Lauren, John, immediately. Wow. And he was hooked immediately because who wouldn't be

by lore. Because her fucking name is lore. And basically was ready to start a master slave relationship with her like right off the bat. He wanted naked photos of lore and she was like, no, no. He wanted her to come to Kansas, like immediately was like, let's do, like she was his next. Wow. Boom. How scary that must have been for her to know. She knows. That's what he's fantasizing about murdering me. And he also started messaging lore as Suzette and pretending to be Suzette and be like, oh, John's really great. Like, you should definitely come out here. And that's her friend. And he doesn't even know that that's her friend. But she's like, basically Suzette is being, well, and then she kind of like, she did let out a

little bit. Like, oh, like I've seen Suzette in these chat rooms. Sure. Like I've seen her. I know her. So that's when he sent fake Suzette to be like, oh, hey, girl. He's so awesome. Like, you should totally come out here. John's the best. Like, he's such a good master and, like, we love him. And, like, he's taught me so much about this. And Lorne knew it wasn't Suzette.

Like, she was like the way she was talking, I know her. Like, I know her. That's not her. And Tammy, Taylor, tried to do the same thing. She got in on it now, too. So she started luring him as well. We love a friend group. Tammy and Laura.

What a squad. Like, what a squad goal? That is a team right there. I retracted my statement about last episode squad goals. And I'm referring. it to this one. Yeah, squad. He acted the same way to her, totally ready to add another woman to the list, like, ready. Wow. So they're trying to do stuff. They're like, they're emailing with them. They're not getting anything really solid. So this is going to be a long process. And they're willing to do it.

They're like, we'll sit here and do it. Now, police became aware at this time of more women that he was currently checking into motels and apartments all over. No, thank you. So they formed a legit task force that was created just for John Edward Robinson. And after they went through all his criminal records and shit, they were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we need Stephen Hames on this. Like, he needs to be on this task force. So they called him and they were like, we need your help. And it was a Johnson County District Attorney, Paul Morrison,

who I mentioned the last episode. He led the task force. And detectives were now learning from Lore and Tammy more about like the BDSM world. they, which like I give them props that they like wanted to understand this more so they could better understand him. Like they were thinking like profilers and that's like interesting. Yeah. Because like I'm sure this like police department was not like very equipped to deal with like all of this. You know, I wouldn't think so. Like in the in like the Midwest, they're not like this police department is probably not like, yeah, we're totally up on all like the kinks that could possibly involve. Yeah, we have a whole book on

So they had Lorne and Tammy literally sit down and like explain the ins and outs of these relationships, what they should be, what this looks to be, and like how this isn't the same. And basically we're just trying to understand like how they could get to him kind of thing. And so they were tailing him. They were tapping his phones. Wow. They even had officers pretending to be utility workers outside of his home to watch him. That is amazing. They had others that were literally sunbathing in neighbors' yards just to watch him. Like pretending to be neighbors just. like sunbathing in their backyard. And also they worked out a deal with the garbage collectors. They would come early to his house, empty his trash for them, give them to these detectives to bring

back to the station so they could pick through all of his trash to find evidence wild. And then they would replace the barrels. Now the problem here was that Robinson had been conditioned to feel impenetrable. Right. He got away with everything. And he literally just exploded through the disappearances of Paula Godfrey, Lisa Stasi, her daughter Tiffany, Catherine Clampett. So Paul Morrison, the DA, like I said in the last episode, he was like, we're going to make sure that we are able to nail him on the Suzette Troughton case at the very least. They were like, we want solid evidence that we're going to put his ass behind bars for good. Like this needs to be it. He's not getting out again. Life imprisonment or in Kansas, they were like,

or death penalty. Right. We're going to get the. this fucker. So they didn't want any more of this probation crap. They didn't want them wiggling out from any more fucking charges. So the progress was unfortunately slow, but it was very, very deliberate. Paul Morrison said, quote, at the time, he said, I'm pretty invested in this case. The amount of victimization that he has wrought on people is beyond comprehension. In so many ways, everyday people have been victimized by him. And from that standpoint, it's extraordinarily important that it be stopped. Yeah. So this is. when they actually got a hold of FBI profilers in Quantico. And John Douglas talks about this,

obviously, because he's like the, he's where you should go for that. And he was saying, like, this was really smart of them to do. And they, they could have done even more with it because there's so many facets to John Robinson. And seeing how he was able to, like, totally, like, associate with two different ways of living at once. Like, he really, was, especially at this point in like 2000 and stuff, he was a, he was a grandfather of seven grandkids. Seven? Yeah. Wow. And by all accounts, they fucking loved him. His kids loved him. They loved, he babysat his grandchildren. He had a Santa suit. He was the local Santa. Like, he was a fucking. Insane. There is, I mean, it is literally like that Jekyll and Hyde thing. It's unreal. That's crazy. And by all accounts,

he was like really good with kids. That's fucking weird. It's always strange when that's a thing. Terrifying. I don't know why. It just always like throw. I'm like, why?

Because I don't want John Robinson be good with my kid. Why can you do that to women? But then be nice to, I don't understand. Like that's, but like they're, it's even like, I mean,

I'm happy when animals aren't hurt, but it's always like strange when like there will be like a very sadistic murderer who like has a dog. Yeah, you're like, what? It's like very strange to me. So like John Douglas was saying in the book that like,

going to Quantico and talking to these profiles is to try to get a better understanding of him was smart because it helped them understand ways that they could trip him up and understand ways that he might trip up because he was so fucking well, like really good at covering all of this. So they were going to have to find a way to like find a little break in the armor kind of thing. And they weren't equipped to do this themselves. Because then we're adding in this whole world of BDSM and master slave sexual relations.

and he was part of this weird club and like that it goes so much further with it. So it's like that's a whole different set of psychology that you need to deal with. So he's a lot on paper. Exactly. He really is. So in the meantime, he had convinced two other women to come to Kansas and be his sex slaves. In the meantime, they were both treated horrifically. Oh, no.

And put up an extended stay hotels where the police were staying in the rooms on either side of the room that he would put them in. Thank God. Because they were stationed to there because he always used number 120, that room. He always used. That's creepy. And they would listen, but there was problems here. So he would be very violent, like not BDSM violent where the, you know, safe words expectations, trust all that.

He was violent like beating these women for his own pleasure and taking photos of them to later use to blackmail them. And he would obsessively call them and show up to have sex with them. and then leave them abandoned for days at a time to really fuck with their psyches. That's so fucked. And one of these women had brought, and this sounds like you're going to be like what, one of these women had brought $700 worth of sex toys with her in a duffel bag. And he stole them as punishment, like took them from her. And she didn't have anything.

And I think, I guess this was just one thing that was like hers. Sure. $700 is a lot of money. Yeah. Especially for sex toys. I'm sure him stealing that from her was like, what the fuck after he put her through all of that. Right. So he like, because she wasn't being a good, you know, sub or whatever it was.

So he took them and like walked out at the hotel and was like, these are mine now. This pissed her off. So all the other stuff was like she felt just like beat down. This was the tipping point of like that fucker. So she called the police. Okay. The other woman that was going through this as well at the same time was so traumatized by his treatment of that she went right to the police as well.

Wow. And she had to be put in a safe house. Oh my goodness. She was so fucked up from it. And she went to them and was like, I did not enter into this for this. Like I did not sign up for this. This is not what I wanted. Like, and she was embarrassed because she was like, I'm into like a little bit of this stuff,

but like I'm embarrassed about it. And like, and this is not what I wanted. No. And I feel so bad. Well, she's probably scared that people are going to look at and say like, well, you know, you signed up for this. So you asked for it or something. She was like, this is not what I asked for.

Like I was into a consensual like. trusting BDSMRI. Which is why it's so great that they did end up having lore and educate them about it, yeah, to tell them, so they get it. So that they could understand that this wasn't a case of you asked for it. This is a case of like, there's real rules involved here. Right. But the problem was that the police are sitting there, they're seeing this, they're, they're seeing that things are going on, they're hearing things.

But they can't really do anything. But there's a sexual component to this and there's consent that is in some way happening here. And these are adults. Well, and like, unfortunately, they can't really do much. They shined, like, and they signed contracts. So it's like there's a lot of weird, just fogginess that is happening here that the police are like, we don't know how to fucking intervene here. Because like there's only so much we can do.

Technically, this is a weirdly consensual relationship that's happening. Even though it's not. Obviously, when they came to him to the police and said, he stole $700 source of things from me or he sexually assaulted me, that's when they said, okay, we can do something now. But still, at this point, he was also still with Barbara. Barbara, the woman that he walked by in the grocery store with Nancy, the one that Nancy wrote a letter to, that he had been with for like 35 years at this point. That's crazy.

Still with Barbara. And he was telling Barbara at this point that they are going to move to Canada together and start a new life. Do you think she was next or do you think he was dipping to Canada? I think he was dipping to Canada. because Barbara packed all her shit. She was ready to go. I don't know.

I don't really know how to word this without it sounding like, eh. But like I just, I don't understand how he chose who he was going to kill and who he wasn't going to kill. I have no idea. Like it's just like very confusing that like Nancy and Barbara were never like physically hurt to our knowledge. I think because Barbara, I don't know exactly how Barbara came into the folds. But it's like Nancy and Barbara to me seem. Well, there's a couple of things here because. in one way I can like say that this works but another way it doesn't.

Okay. Because I was going to say like Barbara and Nancy are almost like the only long-term. Yeah. Stable, air bunnies, air bunnies. Like that he, that he should say air bunnies lately. I'm like, where did that come from? But he like that he looks at them as like, like he's never going to leave his wife. Yeah, no, of course not.

He's, that's his life that he goes back to that. Well, right. That's what I mean. And that's his stability of like, I can. can chill out here. That makes sense to me. I can go get my rage out over here. I think Barbara somewhat resembles that as well because he gave her all of like Isabella's shit and he like kept her there. It's really Barbara. That's like the confusing relationship in my mind. But I could almost put her in the same place as Nancy because he seems to almost hold them in the same kind of regard. He does.

You're right. But then I throw Beverly Bonner in there who, because I was going to say these other women, he lures off the internet. Except for Beverly. And promise of this and promise of that. And it's all this sex involved in BDSM and all that. But Beverly was married and had a job and wasn't looking for a new job. So, okay. So maybe Nancy, we know that Nancy wasn't into the BDSM lifestyle. No.

We don't really know about Barbara. Barbara was, I think. Oh, okay. So there goes my theory. I think Barbara was into it. I was going to say like maybe, I don't know. Every time I think, I know, I don't know. That's why there's no understanding him, and that's why they reached out to the FBI profilers in Chronico, because they were like, help us understand this.

I know. I love that. I'm like, maybe I can figure this out. Meanwhile, the FBI is like, girl, we didn't. Meanwhile, John Douglas, like, mind hunter is like, I have no idea. Like, this doesn't make sense. But I want to figure it out. But we're like, we'll figure it out, John Douglas.

I'll call you. Also, John Douglas, come on the show. Please. Yesterday. But either way. So he's still seeing bar, all of these women that I have named to you, all of these encounters, all of these murders, all of these terrible, terrible things that are happening. Yeah. These relationships that he's carrying on, these like affairs that he's carrying on, these terrible things he's doing. He is still maintaining a wife and family and he's still maintaining a full-time mistress and Barbara and then telling her we're going to move to fucking Canada.

And Barbara's on it. Like she's into it. 35 years this girl has dealt with this stuff. I'm like, Barbara, what are you doing? Makes no sense. But either way, Suzette's family is getting more and more typed letters still. Through this whole thing, that is not stopped. They're getting letters. I hate it. The correspondence has not stopped. And now it's saying that she's with her lover, Jim Turner. Uh-huh. And that they're sailing around Mexico like he had told everybody. Survey says. They're having a great time. No. They're having a great time. Now, then during the investigation and the surveillance, they found out that he had lured

yet another woman from Tennessee to come live with him in Kansas. Wow. Now, initially, they're like, Jesus Christ, like, another one. Like, what do, but they're like, what are we going to do? And they're thinking, like I just said, it's going to be the same shit. We're going to hear all this stuff. We're going to see all this stuff. There's going to be contracts involved.

They're going to be adults. we're not going to know what to do. What are we going to do? We can't get into this. We're going to keep watching this happen. We got to catch him in something. But they learned that this woman from Tennessee had an eight-year-old daughter who she would be bringing with her to live in Kansas. Because he had promised her a life.

He had promised her he was going to take care of them. I'm just saying, ah, because I know what's going to happen. Exactly. But so he had also come in contact at the same time that he was bringing this Tennessee woman with her eight-year-old daughter to Tennessee. he had also come in contact with a 17-year-old girl who had just given birth. That's underage. And was living in her car with her newborn. She was in such, like, dire streets.

You poor thing. He had told this girl, if you become my sex slave, I will move you in the infant onto my farm. I'll give you a chance at a good life. You just have to do this for me. And she was desperate. Of course. This is when D.A. Paul Morrison decided it's time to move in on him now because he was like, it was the children who tip. the scales for him because he said there was no doubt from any of us that he was capable of

harming children if it got in the way of what he was doing. And he said, you know, with how he is with women and girls, it's not a jump to think that if a kid got in his way that he would hurt the child. And at this point, they didn't know what happened to Tiffany. Right. So they were like, we don't know if that did happen. Right. So they said, you know, like we said, we can't get too far into like these relationships we were seeing with women that were seemingly like paperwork and all that shit. But once kids are coming into the fold, that's when we can. And like John Douglas was saying like, you bring an eight year old into this like crazy

ass world. We got to stop this. Right. We can't just sit back and watch this and survey it. We can't do that. So Friday, June 2nd, 2000 at around 10 a.m., nine officers arrived and surrounded his farm. And he let them in. knocked on the door he let them in and they let him know everything they knew he had a farm for real

well it was on a farm like the trailer was on a big farm oh gotcha um and he was shocked when they mentioned lisa stasi and suzette trouton uh he they said he went paler than a ghost wow and they were like what's weird is he's always so charismatic and he knows what to say and he's always like bab bab do but and as soon as he mentioned those two there he was like whoop and he's surprised he didn't continue to go with the same story, though. Well, they told him basically, like, we don't buy it. We have evidence that suggests otherwise. Right. Like, fuck right off with that. We know you're telling lies. So they arrested him at his home. He was charged for the sexual assaults against those women who did go to the police and the theft of the duffel bag of sex toys worth $700. That's a big amount. Who knew that would do

it? That's the thing that tipped him out. The smoking dildo. Thank goodness that she got pissed about those sex toys and then goodness the other girl went for the sexual assault charges. Yeah, because you only got more. His bond was initially set at 250,000. Then they searched his property for hours. They took tons of evidence. They took tons of photos. They found a blank sheet of paper that had Lisa Stasi's name on it that he had kept for 15 years. 15 years. 15 years he had kept that piece of paper. Wow. Then I don't even know where my birth certificate is. Exactly. Well, then they found blank sheets of paper that Lisa Stasi had written on, and they also found receipts from back then as well, and one of them was a receipt from the roadway in 15 years ago where he had kept Lisa Stasi, and the receipt showed finally

that he had checked her and Tiffany out of the hotel the night that he had ripped them away from her sister-in-law in the middle of a snowstorm. And they said she likely died that evening. And finally they were being able to piece these pieces together. But I want to know where she is. I desperately. And Heather Tiffany deserves to know where she is. At the end of this, I have like some resources that Heather Tiffany has become a part of and created herself. So I'll definitely shout those out.

They also found social security forms for Debbie and Sheila Faith, the mother-daughter. Wow. The mother and disabled daughter who disappeared. I mean, what was that like 10 years or prior or whatever? Or not even 10 years prior. No, that was more recent. Yeah, but it's still in the 90s. Either way, he found their social security for it.

Like, why would you have those? Yeah, exactly. They also found credit cards and credit card bills that were under the name James Turner. There was a checkbook with John Robinson and Barbara's names on it. He had opened a checking account with her. I am not okay. Thank you. I know that's like a small thing.

No, it's not. What the fuck? No, dude, me and Drew have been together for four years and we don't have a checking account together. Legitimately. I mean, like, I get they were together for 30, but like they're not. But still. That's your mistress. I'm so confused.

Like, you do have a checkbook with both of your names on it. Insane. And you were full-blown married to another woman with a full-ass family. And those checkbooks were. And those checkbooks were found in the trailer where he lived with his wife, right? Yes. Yeah. What?

It is like office. Yeah. Snoop through your husband's stuff, everyone. For real. If this doesn't tell you. I snoop all the time. I'm a snooper. I'm a snooper.

Well, honestly, it's like in this case, it's like you had to be thinking some things were going on. I mean, come on. Like, I don't just snoop to snoop. But like, if you think something's going on, don't just snoop to snoop. They also got to search, so they also got a warrant to search the storage facility he used in this area. And in this area, it was need more storage, it was called. No, you don't. He does not.

So Suzette Trouton's passport application, social security card, and birth certificate were found in that storage. They also found the 42 pre-addressed envelopes that he had made her fill out because he claimed that she would be so busy. So we had to write those to find the family. Imagine finding 42 addressed envelopes. Yeah, and also they found 31 sheets of paper with Love Ya, Suzette, written on them, like as a buy. Mm-hmm. 31 sheets. I got to go.

They found a slave contract that was signed by Suzette, a stun gun, a picture taken of Suzette in sexually explicit positions, or several pictures, excuse me. And also a sex tape he made of him abusing her. Ah. And it was like a 39-minute tape. I don't like that. Her belongings were also in there, including her journal in like several, like, close possessions. Isabella Luica's driver's license was in there, her university ID from Purdue.

a signed slave master contract from her, nude photos of her in sexually explicit positions. There were also tons of sex toys and BDSM tools, floggers, cuffs, all that shit. He even had a metal speculum. What is that? What they use at the gynecologist? Yep. I wish you could see. Ash literally just made the, like, motion of what?

Oh. Yeah. Oh. So, no. No. That's what I said. When I read it, I said, no. Nope.

I, words can't. Nope. Now we're going into like toy box killer kind of shit. I don't like it at all. Yeah. They also found the sex toys that were stolen from that woman. So she got the back? It was in there.

So this whole thing was led by sergeant, the search at the property too, at the home, excuse me, the trailer. It was led by Sergeant Rick Roth of the Lanexa Police Department and Johnson, Sheriff's Deputy Harold Hughes. On June 3rd, they brought in cadaver dogs at the farm, and eventually they picked up a scent. And they picked up a hard scent. Like they went like bonkers. They immediately alerted officers that there was a cadaver scent around two 85-gallon yellow barrels next to Robinson's shed. When they moved the heavy barrels, officers noted red fluid dripping out of them, and the scent began to fill the air. They pried the cover off,

and immediately were literally thrown backwards with the worst scent of decomp they had ever smelled. All consolidated in a bin like that, I can't even imagine. From the book that I've mentioned like a million times, it says Hughes peered inside at what seemed to be decomposing flesh. A body with its head pointed down sitting in about a foot of rancid fluid. It was bloated and purplish. So they did the same thing with the second barrel and found another body with a pillow on top of it. It looked like it had been there longer than the other barrels occupant. Inside the trailer, they started looking some more now because now they have bodies, so now

they're like, let's look for some blood. In the trailer, they found duct tape with blood on it, paper towel with blood on it, blood on the baseboard in the bedroom, and they also found hair and flesh embedded into the wall in the bedroom. Flesh? Yep. And they found more bud stains around the room and also an impact stained, which is consistent with the proposed murder weapon, we will find out in a second, of a hammer because it created a splatter impact stain.

And the blood and hair was found later to be Suzettes. So the bodies were immediately taken into custody. They were autopsied by Dr. Donald Poseman. He was a pathologist and the deputy coroner of Shawnee County, Kansas. The first barrel, which they just called at first unknown one, was a nude female in the fetal position. She had long dark hair in a ponytail and pierced genitals. She was blindfolded and she had a severe head wound to the left side of her head that was determined to have crushed her skull beneath it.

They determined it was done with a hammer. It was done so hard that skull pieces were found inside her brain from the wound. No defensive wounds were on her, suggesting she didn't know the blow was coming, was caught off guard, or knew her attacker, or all three, which I think all three. All three, I would think. She was, the estimated time of death had been a couple of months to a year. Within a couple of days, dental records showed that this body belonged to Suzette Trouton. She also was found to have a, there was a, like a, what is it called?

Yeah, like I said she was blindfolded. There was, it was like a, I think it was like a satin kind of like fancy blindfold. Sure. So they said it was likely, like, used in some. And actually, going back to the Pierce genitals thing, that reminded me of the calling stand case, that's a thing in like those relationships. That's the thing. So that's why they were like, okay, this is connecting.

Now, barrel number two was unknown to. That's what they called it at first. It was another female body nude except for a sheer black shirt. There was a ton of fluid around her, and they found duct tape and fingernails floating in the fluid. Oh, my goodness. She had dark hair that was matted to her head, and a pillow and pillow case was found like in the fluid on top of her.

I know fluid is such a gross word. Her wounds were two blows to the left side of the head consistent with a hammer. She also had a fractured jaw. Decomposition showed she was dead between six months and two years. Within days, dental records gave them her identity, and it was Isabella Luica. Now they were cooking, and they want a warrant

for that storage place in Missouri now. Yeah, I have a question about the pillow. Do you think that that was just in there, like because it was like evidence or do you think that? Yeah, I think it was probably just part of it. It's interesting because she lived with him the longest. She lived, I mean, she didn't live with him though. But like lived with him like amongst him for a while. For a while. So I just wonder if there was like some sense of like nothing. None. Yeah. Literally zero part of me believes that there was any kind of even psychological thing with that. I think it probably had shit on it. Probably in there with her. That's what I wanted to ask you. I literally think that's it. I wouldn't give this guy even a.

moment of like feeling anything for no i didn't think so but no i what's weird is i it's like he's caring by all accounts to like his children and his grandchildren i don't think he has the capacity for these women though no does barbara come out and say anything at any point not really okay i mean she kind of just like whoa it's crazy that's maybe what i would also say wow wow that's really nuts but now that all this is coming out things are going and now they want a warrant for storage place in Missouri because they're like what are we going to find there and that's the one that's called store more for less and they got it and on June 5th they opened locker e2 there was a lot of stuff in there but it was just like a ton of shit so like what you would put in

a storage facility but there was also three big barrels and remember Beverly when when he drove Beverly's car there and rolled a big barrel in there so I just this was that storage facility So they opened one of the barrels, and they saw a shoe, a bed sheet, and glasses. And when somebody lifted one of the items, a human leg was under it. And they closed that barrel. The other two barrels were leaking a lot, and it was really foul smelling in there, like, really badly. Other people around these lockers actually had complained. It was like permeating air around it.

Yeah. And he had said like a dead raccoon had caused it at one point. Yeah, no, I don't think so. He had actually poured kitty litter around the bases of these times. two barrels to try to mask the smell, but like, that only makes it worse, my dude. Come on, dude. Like, cat shit and humans decomposing in barrels of their own fluid are two very different games. Yeah, and also pretty litter didn't exist back then, so I can only imagine what the cat literally was doing back then. In terms of how different these are, it's like one is a baseball game

and the other is like an underground dog fighting ring. Like, that's how different those games are. Yeah. Cat shit, human decom. Yeah. But did he not know about like limestone? Yeah, I don't, I think he was just, he didn't think anybody was going to look. Kitty litter. He wasn't worried about it. That's some dumb shit. To try to, I'm assuming it was tried to absorb up most of the fluid. That was probably a lot of what his thinking was.

Yeah, but that's dumb. I don't think he was too worried with the smell, I guess. But, uh, so the doctor that did these autopsies of these barrels was Dr. Thomas W. Young. He was the chief medical examiner for Kansas City. Get it. Um, and he did barrel number one, which contained, uh, a woman. with dark brown hair, yellow bed sheets, brown sheets, earmuffs, and she was fully clothed.

She was dressed in what it was described in the book as, quote, stirrup pants, a tweed jacket, panty hose, underwear, a blouse with a multi-colored scarf, and gloves that covered her hands. The woman had one really like ornate earring, I guess, and a fancy watch that was stopped at the time 122. Oh, that's interesting that it stopped. Same with the other women. There was a severe blow to the left side of her head that they figured was a hammer blow, also one to her forehead. She didn't have any defensive injuries and dental records showed this body was Beverly Bonner. Burrell number two, woman with long dark hair, fully clothed. She was dressed in a t-shirt that said California, a state of mind, jeans, socks, and white sues.

She had upper dentures that had cracked in half. She had been hit so hard. There were blows and fractures to her head and face. There was one in her head that was the situs of an orange. The doctor said there were wounds that were definitely caused by a hammer, and she had one large defensive wound, which was a broken arm. Oh, gosh. So she fought.

And I'm guessing you might be able to tell who this probably was, judging by how hard she fought against him. So what we found out was that was Sheila Faith, the mother of Debbie Faith. So I'm assuming she was fighting for her daughter. Absolutely. And barrel number three was a female with her head down, long brown hair, younger than the others. She was fully clothed wearing green pants and a green sweater. She had one sock on.

The body had a degenerative condition and misshapen bones in her pelvis. No defensive wounds, but several severe hammer blows to the head. Dental records showed that this was Debbie Faith. Hammer blows. I can't think, wow. Yeah. really horrific to think about. After these were found,

his bond was raised $5 million, which was the highest in Johnson County history. They soon found out that surviving former lovers of his had been given and worn Isabella's clothing and jewelry in particular. That's so fucked. The ones that were around, some of them were walking around in her black velvet dress that she wore all the time and had no idea.

And then there was like Barbara and some of the, others had her art that he had written his own name on it and said that he had painted it. I hope that that was given back to her family at some point. Because that's, who. So they were able to figure out that he likely murdered Lisa Stasi and that baby given to her brother was actually Tiffany. So now they're starting to go, okay, Lisa Stasi's murdered. That's for sure.

Tiffany is that baby. Because all of a sudden they're connecting these dots. They found documents and they're like, whoa, whoa. Like he gave his, wait a second, like everybody's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. So they informed his brother Donald and his wife. His brother, I mean, his brother and sister-in-law were literally like shook to the core. I mean, stunned. At the time they found out, Heather was 15 years old.

Heather Tiffany. Sure. And they kept Tiffany as her middle name. Like, I'm not just calling her that. And what they had to say when they found out was Don said, quote, we two have been betrayed. We have and will continue to cooperate with the authorities investigating the allegations surrounding John Robinson. We love our daughter very much. Since her adoption, which was never kept from her, we have always assumed that as she became an adult,

she would be curious about her birth family. Because we were unaware whom her birth family was, it was our intention to assist her in any way possible in her efforts in identifying and locating them. Wow. The circumstances surrounding the investigation of John Robinson are as distressing to our immediate family as they are to the other families victimized. Our daughter is aware of the investigation, and we are doing her best to help her through this difficult time. You can't imagine. To find, to not only know that you're adopted and like, you're going to have to search for your mom because nobody knows who she is, but then to find out that she was murdered by your uncle who gave you,

who kidnapped you and gave you to your adopted parents. How do you ever reconcile that? And she knew Uncle John. Right, exactly. Like now she knows that he murdered her mother. There's a photo of the day that they came to get, Heather. Yeah. And she's sitting on John Robinson's lap. He's wearing a yellow sweater and he is smiling and he looks like a happy, proud grandpa or like uncle or something. And he had just murdered her mother.

That's fucked. Like, what? So his other family members, like his wife were adamant, that this was bullshit. And he was innocent. No. Yeah. The bodies were found on in your home. Like, fuck off.

Because here's the thing. It's like, that's what killed. They found fucking bodies in barrels on your property and all the victims have their shit strewn everywhere in your properties. Like, you don't think your husband has anything to do with that? Like, are you kidding? No. Listen, I can't imagine.

The UKK's family was completely in the dark of what happened. Similar to this, if that is the truth. They, like, his daughter Carrie and his wife, they had no fucking clue. All they knew was that Dennis Raider was a good dad and a deal. decent husband? I don't know. He was fine. They didn't have a lot of bad things to say. He's a good guy. I don't know what to tell you. No, they knew that they were going, they were going to have to go through their own fucking grieving process because they, I mean, Carrie, she, she wrote a book about it. Like, she's, like, amazing. Like, it's crazy. It's like, she wrote a whole thing saying, like, should they had to go through their own grieving

process of losing your father and your husband. Losing the person they thought they knew and like the person they had grown up with and spent their whole lives with. Right. And now they're having to deal with the fact that he's this monster. Right. But I can't imagine being like, no, he didn't do it. But you can't sit there and say that this is bullshit. You can't do it. You can't do it. You can't do it. To the other victims' families. There's copies. There's survivors that know what he's done. So what their whole statement was was, we as a family have followed the events of the last week in horror and dismay along with each of you. As each day has passed, the surreal events have

built into a narrative that is almost beyond comprehension. While we do not discount the information that has and continues to come to light, we do not know the person whom we have read and heard about on TV. John Robinson is a loving and caring husband and father. We wait with each of you for the cloud of allegations and innuendo to clear, revealing at last the facts. So wait, which one was the cloud of innuendo? Was it the bodies rotting in barrels on your property? Was that the, was that the confusing part for you? Are we going to find out something different about that? Here's the thing.

I can understand his children not wanting to grasp the idea. Of course. Of that their father is this. Children, I can understand, even though they're grown adults at this point, that's their father. Your dad is your dad. I can understand that it's like going to be a minute for you to grasp this. The spouse, you got to just, you got to let go, man. You got to let it go.

You got to understand. Like you got to just when bodies and barrels are found on your property, it's time to let go some of the loyalty there. Listen, I get like there must have been like an insane amount of denial going on. Absolutely. That's like a stage of grief, I think. For sure. Don't come out and make a statement.

That's disrespectful to the family. You want to come out and say what you should have said is like, we're as horrified as you are. We're so sorry. We're sorry to the victims and their families. We give them their thoughts the end. Yeah. You don't have to add your own little. Or honestly.

We look forward to seeing that this is bullshit. You don't even have to make a statement. You don't have to say anything. No one expects you to. Right. Because honestly, it's the truth. Families of these monsters are victims in their own right. Absolutely.

And it's like everyone, we feel for you. Like I feel for, I can't imagine. No. So it's like no one expects you to have to come out and say something. Like I don't at least. I don't expect you to like grieve. Grieve. And if you need to do that silently or whatever you need to do.

but she stuck with him for a long time. That's so fucked. Robinson was being charged with the murder of Lisa Stasi, Isabella Luica, and Suzette Troughton, and Kansas, and the murders of Sheila Faith, Debbie Faith, and Beverly Bonner in Missouri, 56 counts of fraud and forgery. They didn't find Lisa Stasi, and they didn't find Catherine Clampett. That's so sad. But she was, they were going to charge him with the murder of Lisa Stasi based on, I think, Heather Tiffany helped that out a lot.

What about Paula Godfrey? Paula Godfrey, they didn't have any evidence. So they couldn't charge him with it, but she's listed on the victim was. It's very clear what happened there. So February 2001, his preliminary hearings began, and Lisa Stasi's sister-in-law took the stand. And when asked to point to the man who picked them up from her home in that snowstorm that night, she pointed right at John Robinson and said, he looks older, but he still looks evil. which is like, I love it.

And he does. So finally, after hundreds of motions filed by the defense, and I mean hundreds, literally hundreds, they kept doing it to throw out virtually all evidence, including the bodies found on the farm. How do you throw that out? They tried to throw that out by saying that a police officer while doing surveillance before this had walked on the property and taken pictures. and so that violated his constitutional right to search and seizure, even though they didn't take anything. And that discounts the fact that there was.

So now that that's on the property, we need to get rid of all of that. Yeah, let's just get rid of those bodies. And the judge was literally like, no, fuck right off. And they were like, that officer didn't do anything wrong. They took pictures. They didn't take anything. And it's a big, like big farm with no, no tressing passing signs on it. So like, don't know what to tell you.

But yeah, finally June 13th, 2002. So he was, his preliminary hearing started in February 2001. Oh, a year. June 2013, 2002, John Robinson was charged with five counts of first-degree murder for the bodies found in Kansas and Missouri. The death penalty was being brought to the table for him in both states. Nancy took the stand and defended him, saying he only carried on affairs during the day and was home at night.

And they called him in the media the eight to five serial killer, which I'm like, that's not cute. And she said he was always a great father and husband, which I believe. Sure. If you tell me that, I believe that. But stop saying he didn't murder people that he clearly murdered. And she said she didn't understand all of this. She didn't understand who this person was. She loved him and always would. And here's the thing. Again, I feel for you. I feel for you. I can't fucking imagine. No, of course not. Which I feel, I feel like she's, that's sad. I think she's just very much in denial. Well, and I feel like that's sad. She's that much into denial. You know what I mean? Like, it's, this is just a terrible situation.

They found, like, five fucking bodies in your backyard. That's what I'm saying. Like, oh, okay, John's murderer. I wouldn't be able to just grasp that right away and be like, well, fuck him. I don't think you'd ever grasp that. And that's the thing. That's why it's like, we get it, man. Or just don't defend him.

You don't have to come out and defend him. Like, we get it. Be in denial. Absolutely. Be in denial. Forever. I would be as well. It's totally fine. Don't defend him.

Don't defend him. Just don't. And, you know, like, all his kids said he was, wonderful. He was loving. He was a great grandfather. I mean, I'm glad that he was a good dad to his kids. Well, and the defense said that all his kids turned out very well adjusted. They were clearly raised well. They said they didn't. And his kids came out later and said they genuinely didn't know the man that they were reading about in the papers. They were like, we literally didn't know who this was. You don't want to know that man. And then I'm like, but man, I feel for you guys. Yeah, that's,

you feel in the biggest way. That is fucked. Mm-hmm. Like really. fucked. So then they played the tape in in court of the horrifically violent sexual encounter with Suzette. The 39-minute tape. I don't know how jurors get through that. I could never. While this was happening, he leaned over in his seat to get a better look at it and was smiling through it. Like, he was very happy that they were showing this. And when the 39-minute-long tape ended, Suddenly, on the film, the movie Willy Wonka started playing because he had filmed that over his grandkids tape of Willy Wonka in the Chocolate Factory. That's not even real. No, that's real.

And they were saying, like, John Douglas said in the book how perfect that was to show him as a person as this violent, horrific, abusive sexual encounter with this, like, helpless woman. who they found dead in a barrel on his property. And then immediately after Willie Wonka plays and shows like, oh, that's his other side. That's the loving grandfather who watches silly tapes with his kids. Yeah. I don't have words. And imagine being the juror and just being like, oh, like that just pops up after that. I bet you would never fucking watch Willie Wonka again.

I got to go. Not that I ever wanted to again. Yeah. So Paul Morrison, the DA, his closing arguments were pretty great. But I'm just going to tell you part of it. He kept using the word sinister for him. which is a great word for him. And he said, sinister.

And then he said in that he's J.R., J. Osborne, or others, always luring vulnerable people, sinister in that we've got rotting bodies in the barrels, sinister, and that he took a baby from her mother, and sinister in that Sheila and Debbie Faith in her wheelchair were murdered and put into barrels. You wonder, did Debbie watch her mother get murdered? Right. That's the first thought I had. The defense team used a Thoreau quote,

the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. And that was to try to like humanize him. What? But then Paul Morrison got the final word. And he responded to that saying those lofty words don't have much to do with extramarital affairs, BDSM, torture and death, do they? No. Therot like literally just rolled over in his grave eight times. And he also said the misery this defendant has inflicted all those years is beyond human

comprehension. This is your opportunity to hold the defendant accountable for his actions. And then I guess he literally like turned to walk away and then he turned back to the jury and said, I hope you do. And then walked away, which I was like, I love it. I love a theatrical like, do the right thing. Yeah, you should do the fucking right thing. Because it's like, fuck yeah. Yeah, I hope you do. Yeah. Well, on Tuesday, October 29th, after deliberating for 11 hours, they found him guilty of all charges. Good. It was unanimous, and he was unanimously sentenced to death in Kansas.

Bye. Robinson could become the first convict executed by lethal injection in the state of Kansas. Yeah, go ahead. In Missouri, additional charges were put on his sentence because more cases were coming in that were similar, and so they were kind of bringing them forth to see if those were part of him as well. He is currently on death row in Kansas. He is 76 years old. He is serving his time at El Dorado Correctional Facility,

which is a maximum security prison in Butler County, Kansas. It was not until 2005 that Nancy finally filed for divorce. They had been married 41 years. And she put down incompatibility and irreconcilable differences. I can't say that, sorry. It's hard to say. Irreconcilable differences. Incompatibility and irreconcilable differences.

There you go. which I would say so. I would say so, Mama. So in 2006, Lisa Stasi's daughter, Heather, Heather Tiffany, filed a civil suit against Truman Medical Center in Kansas City and the social worker that referred them. Sure. And said that, because he just called and said he was looking for fucking, and he was saying like unwed mothers of white babies.

That's how he was explaining it to them. Right, because he only wanted white women. Yeah. Which is like, that should have tipped you off. You didn't want to help black women. Like, that should tip you off that this is not a good thing to do. So she did do that. They did reach a settlement in 2007.

And she split it with some of Lisa Stasi's family members. I love that. That's amazing. And then today, there's, I read a heavy article that Heather is married. She has sons herself. Good. And she has a podcast and an organization called the Lisa. Sastasi effect.

Hell yeah. And it's supposed to help uncover the truth about her mother. She also has a YouTube channel for that podcast. Amazing. And let me tell you, my new fucking goal is to find out what the fuck happened to Lisa Stasi. Well, because I want to know where she is. He won't say anything. He will not say.

He'll never admit it. And she just wants to bury her mother. Yeah, obviously. And I guess there's a headstone in Alabama, I believe it is, that they erected in Lisa Stasi's honor to, like just be a memorial to her. Sure. She also said that her adoptive parents, Dawn and his wife,

drove her to that several times throughout their lives. Like, would always try. And she said all she wants is just to have her mother buried there. Yeah. She just wants to be able to see her. And fuck, I want to help her. I want to help her too. But like I want to help her figure this out.

Where would he have buried her? I don't know. That's the thing. Does he have like places that, I mean, There was a pond on his property, but they drained it and they didn't find anything. She must be in Kansas or Missouri, you would think. You would think. But now I'm like, what the fuck?

She's so strange because he obviously didn't do that with any of the other victims, to our knowledge. Well, he did because Catherine Clampett, we haven't found. And Paula Godfrey, actually. Yeah, it was like he did that in the beginning and then he kind of like. Where are those three? Right. I need to know where they are. I just hate how many unidentified.

I just want to help Heather. Yeah, I do too. Heather, I want to help you. Seriously. I'll do whatever I can to help you. But man, this case, so that's where we are now. He's just sitting there. We still have unanswered things.

But damn, he's wild. Fuck him, dude. He's a wild, wild, wild, wild son of a bitch. That is, that's one of the gnarliest ones we've ever done. It truly was. That's crazy. And just the fact that he was living like, it's always wild to me when they love a double life like that. It, that's the thing.

Or like a fucking quadruple life if you look at him. A full ass, like million life. That's so crazy. Million life. I just, I cannot handle him. So that is the story of John Edward Robinson and his reign of fucking terror on Missouri and Kansas especially. Day yum.

Day yum is right. And definitely, I mean, go check out the Lisa Stasi effect. Yeah, I want to listen to that. I want to, I'm going to start checking this out. And I want to help Heather, man. Anything. And if you know anything, you know, let her know. Tell us.

So, yeah, thanks for listening. And we hope you keep it weird. I don't even have the energy because my brain is still just circling. None of this. Bye. Don't keep it at all this weird. I feel like it all goes without saying. It does.