Morbid - Mamie Thurman

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

On June 22, 1932, a boy picking blackberries in rural Logan, West Virginia made a hideous discovery when he happened upon the dead and brutalized body of local woman, Mamie Thurman. At first glance, Mamie’s murder resembled a gangland-style execution; she had been shot twice in the head and her throat had been slit from one side to the other, as though whoever killed her wanted to make sure she didn’t survive.The murder shocked the small town of Logan. Mamie was well-known around town as a devoted wife to her husband, Jack, a local police officer, and a good Christian who was actively involved in her church and community organizations. Yet as news of the murder spread, so too did rumors of Mamie’s infidelity and poor moral character. Ultimately, local Black handyman Charles Stephenson was arrested, tried, and convicted in a sensational trial that made national headlines. Yet many felt that conviction was obtained on questionable evidence and, in retrospect, largely the result of racial bias. Was Mamie Thurman really just an unfortunate victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or was there a more personal element? Indeed, evidence suggests there was more going on in the case of Mamie’s death than a simple murder and that a number of powerful men conspired to cover up the true motive for Mamie’s death, allowing the true killer to walk free.Thank you to the wonderful David White, of the Bring Me the Axe pod, for research assistanceReferencesCharleston Daily Mail. 1932. "Negro was at killing scene." Charleston Daily Mail, June 27: 1.—. 1932. "Pair guarded in Logan case." Charleston Daily Mail, June 26: 1.—. 1932. "Tests show blood in Logan official's car." Charleston Daily Mail, July 28: 1.—. 1932. "Two men accused of Logan murder." Charleston Daily Mail, June 23: 1.—. 1932. "Two more questioned in Logan murder case." Charleston Daily Mail, June 24: 1.Davis, F. Keith. 2021. Secret Life and Brutal Death of Mamie Thurman. Charleston, WV: Quarrier Press.Hinton Daily News. 1932. "Large crowd at hearing of Logan men." Hinton Daily News, June 25: 1.State of West Virginia vs. Clarence Stevenson. 1933. 172 S.E. 533; 7621 (Supreme Court of West Virginia, December 16). Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. At night. Morbid at night. Sex and spicy. Actually, not at all. This is neither sexy nor spicy.

It is scurry. It is unattractive and bland. I wouldn't say bland. I would say unattractive and like disgusting. Nasty. That's what I would say. So this is another one of our episodes that has been chosen by our patronesses.

Patronosai picks. Our patronessi. And they picked a doozy. They certainly did. They picked a doozy. I'm glad they picked a doozy for you because my next week is also a doozy. They picked Robert William Picton. Yikes.

The pig farmer from Canada, who is quite a character. And I have about 12 to 14 hours of research into this already. You're going to get three parts because Mama can't stop. And here's the thing. She said 12 to 14 hours and she's only got one and two done. Yeah, I've only got two done. So that's going to be more than like 14 hours. I just can't stop. This case is fascinating. It's huge. It's horrifying. It's intricate. And it's so important. Because this case has to do so much with like missing indigenous women in Canada. And what a huge, huge like just like how it was so fluffed off. And it's still a problem. Yeah.

And especially sex workers, it's like forget about it. Of course. This went on for way too long. Bullshit. But I think the only thing before we get into it was just like an exciting thing that I just want to be like, go listen to because it was really fun. Oh my gosh. Guys, we were on murder squad and I couldn't wait to tell you guys.

The amount of times that Elena said, Paul Holes. I said Paul Holes quite a bit. Paul Holes. I think it was just like one of my goals in life to be like, well, Paul Hose, what do you think of this? Paul Holes, Paul Holes. And it was great. But yeah, we were really excited about it and we couldn't tell you guys for weeks. I know.

I was just like really excited. So, yeah, that was the big like, yay, I'm so excited. I think I tweeted, like, that night I came home and I was like bouncing off the walls. You were literally on drugs. Being able to like talk about a case with Paul Holes and Billy Jensen, of course. Obviously. But we had actually done an episode, if you guys like haven't listened to it, where we had Billy on the show and we talked about Katrina Homer. and that was amazing. And after that one, I was, like, losing my mind too. Oh, absolutely. But, like, Paul Holes, you're like, you, like, solved the Golden State Killer games. Well, that's the thing. He's literally, he's probably the smartest man I've ever had a conversation with. Yeah, it was, like, thrilling. Like, I can't, I can't think of somebody else that I've had a conversation with that's that smart in that area. And just, like, being able to talk about a case,

especially, like, the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders, which is what we talked about on that episode, with a homicide detective who just has. this way of being able to look at a case that we can't. Like, he came up with a few things. And I was like, why didn't I think of that? I know. Like, that makes so much sense. But, yeah, it was a lot of fun.

We absolutely loved it. We want to thank them again for asking us to come on for the winter distraction episode because that was, like, truly an honor. And can't wait to do it again. We're totally going to do it again, I hope. Hope we get invited back. Shout out to Karen in Georgia. We love you.

Oh, my God, the best. We love you. Thanks for paving the way. Thank you for letting us see Stephen for a little while. That was fun. That was so much fun. But yeah, I just wanted to say that because I was like a real like shot in the arm this month. Oh, absolutely.

We were excited about it and hope you guys go listen to it. It's on their feed. And if you haven't listened to Murder Squad, go listen to them because they're awesome. Incredible. But let's, uh, let's really destroy you. Let's roll around in the mud together. Let's go ahead and really, really make you not want to eat for the next like four days. Glad I literally just ate two tacos.

This case, there's a lot. I don't really know anything about this case, to be honest. Wait until you get into it, because we're going to get into, so for part one, I'm going to tell you about Willie. Because he's known as Willie Pickedon. His name is Robert William Picton, but he's known as Willie. We're going to tell you about Willie. I'm going to tell you about how he grew up. I'm going to tell you about their infamous farm that they had. We're going to talk about like the time period and what was going on. in Vancouver at the time, these missing, mostly indigenous women that were sex workers,

I think all of them were, and how it was being ignored. Like, it's just, it's shocking. So part one, we're going to get into that. And we're going to talk about a few run-ins with Willie. So we're going to give you a little, I'm going to give you a little bit of, like, meat and potatoes, don't worry. She's going to give you a little snippet before she gives you all of them in part two. It's going to be like, whoa.

And then part three is going to be like, ah, so just, we're going to give them to you back-to-back. So they're going to come fast and furious. You won't have to wait for parts for too long. So don't worry. Now, Robert William Picton was born October 24th, 1949. He was born in, and he was raised in Port Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada. All right. I think it's Coquitlam.

Coquitlam. I think it is. Don't tell us either way. I feel like it is. You know, and it's like, I love you, Canada. I think I said it right. I hope I did you proud. Yeah.

I just like quadruple checked it. I literally paused the recording to be like, I got, I just got to make sure. And I was right. I don't need to be mentioned in all of those tweets. No, co-quitlam. Co-quitlam. You got it. He was the middle child of three.

He had three kids altogether. It's always the fucking middle. It's the middle child. His sister Linda was born a year before he was. And his brother was a younger brother, David. And he was actually a year after that. So it was like, boom, boom. Bing, bang, boom.

His parents are Leonard and Louise Picton. Oh, my God, we love alliteration. We do, but we don't love them. Oh, all right. We do not love them. They sound delightful, like Leonard and Louise. Yeah, they sound like they go dancing on Friday night. No, they don't go dancing at all.

Apparently, Louise was a very hard worker. Very hard worker. Leonard was very lazy. So they were like opposites attract. Stinker. But Louise and Leonard were probably, best known for their looks. By that, I don't mean like their looks on the runway. I mean like, they were very interesting looking people and not just like, you know, just you're strange

looking. It's like they like actively made themselves like the scary people in the neighborhood. Really? Yeah. And so Louise specifically, purposely just kind of let nature take hold of her her appearance. She's like, I'm going to Google while you describe this. She kind of let all her teeth rot out of her head. She, you can like die from her. Her hair was, oh, it's very dangerous. Like, oral health is very important. And like, I guess, and I'm not saying, like, you know, there was nothing that could really, like, say what happened here, but like all her hair was gone, apparently, but she grew a full beard. No. No. No. No, she did not.

She did. No. And this is only worth mentioning because she kind of became like a local fascination in town. Because she's a fucking bearded lady. Because she was also very loud and very abrasive, like very scary. So she's this like short kind of stout woman with no teeth, a full beard. And why can't I find a picture of it anywhere? I don't know.

I couldn't really find one either. I'm pissed. But she was always wearing a house coat. over men's jeans and the jeans were tucked into galoshes. No. That was her like what she wore every day and she would come out in that housecoat, men's jeans and giant galoshes with the things tucked into them and like full beard, no teeth, just screaming at people.

I have to wonder if Stacey and Clinton could even. Could even? Could they even? And, you know, she would scream at small children. Rude. Like she was just and she was like, she was a dick. That's for sure. Clearly.

And so, like, did the fact that she was just, like, a little fascinating to look at was just a little fascinating. Was interesting. That's probably why she's good. She's probably just, like, upset that life dealt her gnarly cards. I don't know. I know. She just seems like, she kind of, like, leaned really hard into it.

Like, she liked this. Listen, if you can, honestly, grow a full beard. If you can say nothing else about the pictons, they loved being disgusting. That was, like, they relished. who they were and they were, this is who they were, they were foul. I just like choked on my laugh. I don't know if you heard that. They were decaying, living people.

It was unbelievable. That's heinous. Truly unbelievable. And Leonard just looked dirty and horrifying. Yeah, I saw him. He was like tall and thin. But they, and it's like, they weren't just like ugly people. Like, we're not being like, they're just ugly.

They were filthy, like disgusting. And they didn't give a shit. That's foul. smelled. Apparently this entire family smelled horrific. Oh no, no, no, no, no. Like horrific. And Leonard was known as piggy by the other farmers. Stop. And because his stank was just unreal. Stop! Yeah. And he was also super nasty and abusive to his children. Oh, so fuck that. And when he wasn't just neglecting them. Oh, right. So either neglecting or just beating. Or just beating. Shithead.

Awesome. Yeah. And Willie kind of like looked more like his father. Like he had more of like that build and like that look about him. Was that better for him? I guess. I don't think there was really like a good option. Sure.

But I suppose if you have to pick one. I don't know. Well, I feel like he would rather look like Mama so he could grow a beard. But I guess I think Dave took after Mama. I'm so stuck on that. I'm so stuck on it. And Willie was filthy his entire life. they all were, but like Willie was really known.

Ew, I need, I don't like talking about dirtiness. No, it stresses me. Like, it makes me want to, like, put deodorant on and, like, scrub my hair of follicles. Well, everyone used to call Willie Ratface. Stop. That's horrible. And he does have a rat face, so I just want to put that. Like, when you look at him, you're like, oh, rat face.

Like, that's the first thing that comes straight. If you didn't know he was called Ratface, you would look at him and be like, ratface? Is that his name? Is that his given name? Yeah. Rat face? Picton. Is that his name? Face. Face of a rat.

Rat face? You're of the rat. Yeah. No, he's a rat face. He's a rat bastard is what he is. So the farm animals, so they had a ton of pigs, they had some cattle, but this was mostly a pig farm. You know what's funny? Pigs live in the house. Pigs living outside. It's so funny that these filthy people owned pigs because pigs are among the cleanest animals on earth. I know. But not these pigs because they didn't treat them well at all. They didn't take care of them.

But they did allow all the animals to just walk through the house. That's fucked up. No matter what. They just walk through the house. They could shit in the middle of the house. And no one cleaned it up. Oh, that's not one person in this fucking family cleaned one day in their life. So there's just shit around like no matter what?

We will see later that when people went into this home and onto this property, every single surface and every single wall, floor and ceiling was covered in feces. Fucking dirt, mud, no. blood, just everything. They didn't clean. When I say they did not clean, there was never a point in the life of this farm that any of this family cleaned. Sometimes visitors would come and try to clean. No.

Why did they have visitors? Oh, just wait. Why did they have visitors? We'll get to that in part one. Why did they have visitors? Yes, we'll get to some of it. And boy, boy, boy, howdy. This is great.

Boy, howdy. A lot. What? It's so much. So, yeah, so animals are walking in the house. They're pissing everywhere. They're shitting everywhere. The kids had to clean out all of the pig pens before school.

And there was over 200 pigs. Jesus. Yeah. They also went, so they went to school directly from cleaning up everything on the farm. Shit. So they stank to high heavens. They were filthy. And the kids were really only bathed like once in a while.

What? Like lucky if they had a bath like once in the week. Ew. Yeah. And it was probably like sitting in the stairs. dirty water and show. Oh, yeah. And where was CPS? Of course, David and Willie immediately got a reputation. Like, no one wanted to hang out with them. They were dirty. They were disgusting. Which is sad as kids. Obviously. They don't have a control over that. No, and their sister.

Like, we always say feel bad for the kid, not the adults. Absolutely. But the kid at the time, you're like, that sucks. That you were like, you were sent off to school to basically get made fun of. Yeah, exactly. Well, and they didn't, these boys didn't really get to hang out. out with other kids. They were work to the bone and they were pretty much just neglected when they were on the farm. So they were kind of just forced, they did farm labor and then they were just like left to do whatever. This is really reminiscent of Carl Pansram. It is, right? Yeah. It really is. So Linda, the sister, she had a similar experience for sure because she was growing up in that house. You're going to be stinking. Like literal squalor. But she was at least kind of treated by her mother like a

human sometimes, like a human child. Oh, okay. Interesting. What is what happened? when the human moments were occurring. She was bathed a little more. Okay. And she would go to like events, like birthday parties with other kids and like her mom would buy her dresses and like clean her out. Interesting. Maybe it was like something about like a mom having a daughter. Yeah. I don't know what it was. And also Willie and his mother were very close, even though his mother was like pretty fucking terrible to him. It was one of those things. Okay. Kind of like an Ed Gein thing. Right, right. Like you, we hear about a lot of these serial killers. who get very close to their mother and are very obsessive with them. We've talked about them before.

Like an Oedipus complex. But when you look at it, the relationship, you're like, she was terrible to you. Why are you so obsessed with her? Because you're, like, somehow constantly pining for her approval. Yeah, it's like they need her approval, and then they start equating love with pain and humiliation, and that's when chick just goes awry. Right. Now, the pictons, you'd think they're living in squalor. They're, like, disgusting, filthy, horrific.

They had tons of money. Really? Tons of money. Really? They had tons of land and they were selling off chunks of this land left and right to real estate developers. Wow. That's where the money's at too.

It's crazy. That's nuts. Now, there was obviously, this place was not a very good environment to, you know, nourish young minds. No? I don't think. I just don't see it. They were never read to at home, which I, like, tweeted about this the other day because it

bothered me, like, deeply, that, like, children are, like, going to bed at night and not having a book read to them, or, like, just never sat with their parents and had a book read? Like, that bums me out. Yeah, that didn't happen in my childhood. And that bums me out. My mom, I can't name you one time my mom read me a book. That's horrific. My stepmom would read before we went to bed, so.

And, like, Ma would read. And Ma was, like, throwing books at us left and right. And that's what's so crazy to me is, like, my mom was always, like, an obsessive reader. She still is. And she was always very, I remember the one thing she always told me was I'll never say no to a book. So if we were out and I wanted a book, I got that book. Do you remember? She'll never say no to a book. We, Ma would always get like a ton of stuff at like BJ's like go shopping. And she would always go, why don't you girls go in the book section and pick out what you want? And we would stand in the book section while she did all the grocery shopping. And no better what book you

wanted. And like no matter how many. Yeah. She was always that way because she was like, I want you reading. read what you want to read. And she always told me, you know, you got to go to bed at a certain time when I was little, but I could sit up and read in bed. Yeah, that was always the thing. And I think it's important. Yeah. It's like bonding. It's calm. It's safety. It's nourishing your mind. It's like doing so much for you. These kids weren't getting it. Well, and there's so many studies about like what reading to your kids get, especially even when their babies like can do further in life. Exactly. So because of this and because they're not getting, you know, any kind of help at home. for school. Nobody's really helping these kids at all. Willie's tests and like grades in school were not good.

He was not doing well. Because nobody's there to help him. Yeah. He ended up being held back in second grade. And he spent his entire school career really needing extra help to get by and being in classes reserved for children with special learning needs. But he struggled, like really struggled. Willie and his brother also had like pretty unique speech issues. They could speak. They didn't have like a speech impediment, I wouldn't say. Both of their voices were just really high-pitched. And they kind of remained that way a little bit. That probably even added like a layer to all the bullying. Exactly. And then there was also, there was a slight impediment where they just couldn't pronounce certain words and sounds. Like I think they had trouble pronouncing like ours, like almost like

a Boston accent. Kind of, but it's like it almost made it sound kind of like babyish, you know? Which I don't think they do, maybe they would do like a W almost instead of an R. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So it just made it even worse. So, you know, around them, I guess, they, now I read a book that I think everybody should read. It's fucking amazing about this case. I recommend it so highly. It is called On the Farm, and it's by Stevie Cameron. And it's super long, super in depth.

I mean, they go into so much detail about like every aspect of this case, their lives, everything. I highly recommend it. And in that book, they talk about how the picture. Pictons lived in an area in Coquitlam that they were kind of surrounded by like, you know, people that were really well off. Because again, they're pretty well off. They were squalor, but like you would never know that they had a ton of money. But there was a lot of like doctors who lived in the area, lawyers.

So the kids, the Picton kids are going to school with these doctors and lawyers kids who are treating them like shit. Yeah. Because that's just what else they're like dirty farm kids. So one of these kids talked later. and was talking about how they kind of like treated them shitty. And I just had to write this quote down from this one. Was this going to make me really sad?

Woman who said that she was like a doctor's child just because, oh no, I think it's going to make you be like, that's ridiculous. Oh, God. Just the end quote, the end sentence in this, I was like, you're, anybody who has to say that, I'm like, you're, she sucks. She sucks. Yeah, I'm like, you're ridiculous. Hit me with it.

We were all terrible to the pictons, especially Robert, Willie. I remember all of us on the road taunting him. We'd say to each other, just let us add him now, and we'll make him talk. How were they different? Dirty and stinky. They always had their hair cut and a brush cut. Man, they stunk. Their house was a poor house with no yard and falling down fences.

There were no big trees, only some shrubs. I don't even remember them at school at all, but I do remember them waiting for the school bus. Our bunch was mostly all doctors kids. we were the best dress and had the nicest houses. Almost everyone in the group is successful now. I bet you're not. Literally. Like, that's a cunt.

I bet you're not. Yeah, like, what a dick. Like, what the fuck? They all sucked and they lived in a... Like, who cares if their house is poor? Here's the thing. Willie Picton is an absolute demon piece of shit. Like, he should rot for all eternity.

Fuck that guy. Right. I just think anybody who has to be like, yeah, we were totally terrible to them when they were kids. And then to be like, we had... the best clothes and we had the nicest houses and we're all successful now. Like, fuck off. It's just, it's very elitist. It just rubbed me the wrong way. I was like, you don't, what the fuck. And also, why are you still stuck in middle school? Like you, and the thing about that quote that I had to

include it because I was like, you tell me nothing that everybody else doesn't know, but then you have to add it at the end. Like, I'm successful. I'm so successful. And I had the best clothes when I was a kid. Okay. Okay. Awesome. Cool. Live your life. It was just so funny. It was like a nice little like, ha-ha, what I was reading it. Because who boy? You need a little ha-ha. It's like a pallet cleanser. Because again, Willie, you feel bad for him when he's a kid, but then, oh boy, you don't

feel bad for a long. He erases that real quick later in life. Now, according to a lot of people who knew the pictons, apparently Willie was said to have once hidden in the carcass of slaughtered pigs if he wanted to hide away from people. So not once, like a few times would hide in the carcasses of slaughtered pigs. just to like, if he didn't want to talk to someone, he was just like, I'll just hang out in here. That in and of itself is a case study. It's like in Star Wars when they like open that like animal and like lay in it.

It's the same thing. Yeah. It's exactly that. But this is really sad. This is like really going to, again, you get a lot of like sympathy for him as a child. Don't worry. What? We'll remove it all later.

But what happens? When he was 12 years old, he had a cat. that he bought. No. He bought it at three and a half weeks. He spent $35 on it. He had saved up for it. And he wanted to keep it as a pet.

He did not want this to be like a farm animal. It was like his animal. He was so happy. He loved feeding it. He would like run home from school every day and feed it. And he just wanted to take care of it. And he said it was, quote, as pretty as the day is long. No, shut up.

One day he came home from school and it was missing. So he frantically went everywhere who's panicking. He's asking his parents. He's asking everyone. And they're like, maybe it just ran away. Like, I don't know. And he was like, what the hell? I don't know what to do.

And then I think it was his father that was like, maybe you should look in the barn. Which to me, when you find out what happens, you're like, wow, you're a demon. What did he do to it? When he looked in the barn, the calf was dead hanging upside down by a hook. Why? They had butchered his pet. For meat? Or just to be assholes.

They had just butchered it for meat. Willie lost it. And Louise offered him money to buy a new one. Why would he go get another one if you're just going to do the same fucking thing? And he was devastated. Oh, my, that's horrible. That's horrible. There's a quote in the same book from Willie himself. And he says, and here I seen the calf hanging upside down there. They butchered my calf on me. Oh, boy, I was mad. I couldn't talk to anybody for three or four days. I locked everybody out of my own mind. I didn't want to talk to anybody. That really upset me. But that happens. That's life. I mean, we're only here for so long. When your time is over, your time is over. Oh. Wow. That's one way to get through it. That's just like, so is this a case of, do you feel this is a case of nature versus nurture and it's definitely nurture? I think nurture plays a really big role in this. Do you think that if he grew up with a different family, like an amazing family, he would have done all this? I don't know, because when you find out what he does, he's real fucked up. But he's real fucked up. This, this, this has. This has. House seems like it would fuck somebody up. Well, that's the thing. I think that this, I mean, I definitely think Nurture had a huge role in this. But then I do. You have to think he had two

siblings and they didn't go on to do things like this. Dave grew up to be a shithead too. Was he like a murder? No, well, no. We're not, I can't say. Not confirmed. Not confirmed. I mean, nothing, there's no charges against him or anything like that, but like I wouldn't be shocked. Like if the AP came out that all of a sudden they were like, oh, look, he did it too. The sister Linda? Linda moved away from the family. and she turned out great. But here's the thing. She was treated a little bit better.

And she moved away from the family pretty early on. Right. So, I mean, she was raised in a different environment, pretty much. You can say that nature versus nature, maybe it's nurture. Yeah, and maybe it was like, you know, partially this whole, like, raising him this way, neglecting, abusing, treating him like this. And then also bringing him around because, of course, kids who grew up on a farm, like, learn how to slaughter animals.

They see that stuff. But I think that on top of how they were treating him. him already really like melded into something terrible. Yeah. It was like a deadly mixture. Exactly. Now at 14 years old, he ended up leaving school for good. Oh. It's a strange story. I guess he had like bought a pen at the store that was one. Do you remember those pens that you'd like turn one way and something would like come down? No. Okay. Well, there was these cool pens. Sorry. There was one that was like there was a lady on the pen and then you'd like flip it this way and her like dress would fall off. Oh, that's a lot. I didn't have that pen, but I'm sure. But Willie had that pen. He bought

that pen. So it's like a naked lady and then you turn it the other way and the clothes go back on. That's funny. It's like, yeah, it's just like a gag thing. It's ridiculous. Well, the principal at school threatened to beat him if he didn't get rid of the pen. Okay. That's one way to handle it. And so Willie was like, bye and just left. Okay. So it never came back. I love that that was the straw that broke Willie's back. Yeah, that was it. That was the naked lady. lady that broke Willie's back. That was it, the naked lady pen that were naked ladies. Now, the two boys ended up taking on a lot more workload at the farm. Now that they weren't in school. Yeah. And David was still in school, but he was still taking up a big load. And before Willie had even

left school, they would leave midday, midday during the school day to come home, slop the pigs and then come back. Now, what does slop the pigs mean? I'm not quite sure. I think it's like, feed. Oh, okay. Like, do throw mud on them? That's what I think slop the things would mean. I think it's just like pig things? Just pig things. T.M. Like, like, just big things. Can't talk right now. I'm doing pig thing shit. I think it's, yeah, whatever things pigs need, I think that's what slopping is. I'm

pretty sure. All righty. Let us know. Do you have a pig? HMU? Do you slop it? I don't know. Sounds rough. It doesn't sound nice. Like I want to like, nourish my thing. It really does. And then the boys both started flat out missing school, and that's when Willie left school anyways. But David was missing school all the time. They were both exhausted and filthy all the time. There wasn't even a shower in the house. And there was like a basin for bathing. Now, in 1963, they moved to another farm. And they actually like took the farmhouse they had and like moved it. They moved the shit house. Why would you Not just get a new house.

Because they are the pictons. But there's shit in there. They're the pictons. So you're rich. You know why? Because they like living in shit. This is how they like to be. Do you think that they're just like one with the animals?

No, I think they're just disgusting animals themselves. And they're horrifying. So they moved from the place they were at first, which was Dawes Hill to 963 Dominion Avenue. At this new place, they had 700 pigs. They like really, they busted. They busted this. out. Seven hundred pigs. Now Linda, the sister, was like goodbye. She was like, you know what? I'm going to go stay with other family in Vancouver because she was like, you're all fucking gross. So I'm going to

I'm going to get out of here. She was like, there's 700 pigs here and I don't think we need another. Bye. She was like, I'm going to take my leave. I think this is my time to like soft shoe out of here. Goodbye. I'm surprised they let her. Let that. I guess it's like one. Yeah, I think she was just like bye. Wow. Okay. She basically didn't really have a lot of contact. It's especially with the parents after this. Why? I wonder. That's so strange. I know. She did talk to her brothers later once in a while, but it was only for business things, basically, because they were still running the farm once the parents died.

So when Willie left school for good at 14, Dave was still in school, like I said. And weirdly, he, like, dated a ton. Was, like, super gross. Now, who the mother fuck dated stinky Dave? I think the whole world, I think all of Canada still ask this. they're all like, like, show yourselves. Like, who are you? Show your face.

Yeah, show your face. Because he was disgusting. Like he was disgusting. You said. You said so. Fowl. Stanky. Like, rotten meat.

Like would make Stanky chops Ramirez look like the cleanest motherfucker alive. Like stanky chops, his breath smelled like wet leather, everybody said. Which to me, when you say wet leather, I'm like, you just did it and I actively gagged. Worse than that. That made him look like Mr. clean, like shave, stanky chops his head, throw a white t-shirt, good to go. Exactly. But I guess in the school, Dave was like somewhat normal. When it came to like interacting with peers and stuff, he just kind of like, I don't know. He's smelly but churning. They were like he's disgusting.

Like he looks like what like the inside of like a hemorrhoid feels like it would look like and smells like an infected sore. But like, let's hang with him. So listen, I'm going to need you to get past this part because I cannot handle it. I just got to do it. I shower sometimes two times a day if I get sweaty. I mean, I love being clean. If that's not your bag, that's not your bag. Being clean is my favorite thing on the planet.

Definitely. Nothing like washing your hair and your body and it's like keeping up with yourself. Clumbiness is definitely a big thing for me. It's key. If it's not for you, like that's cool live your life. But don't murder people also. Because if you are dirty and murder people, that's boom boom. Don't be dirty, though.

It's not healthy. It's not healthy. That's true. It's not good for anyone. Now, either way, once Willie left school, the two of them were basically full-time farm hands at this point. Willie was given the task because he was out of school now. So they were like, okay, we're going to teach you how to become a butcher and, like,

slaughter. That was probably the worst thing they ever taught him. Certainly was, because he started training to slaughter the pigs and cattle. He would slaughter as many as two dozen animals in one day alone. No. That's a lot of animals to slaughter. 24. That's a lot.

And this kind of became his thing. No. Like he loved it. See, that's very good at it. He loved it. If you're a butcher, like, wowie Kazawi, get it. Thanks for the steak. Yeah.

Sorry if you're a vegan, trigger warning. But you shouldn't like enjoy the, he was enjoying like the killing. Oh, he was enjoying the process a little too much. I feel like you shouldn't enjoy the process. No, you shouldn't. You should just do it. Like, this is just something I do. And he kind of did it like pretty horrifically, too. I don't, I didn't really, one thing I didn't do was like look into exactly how you slaughter a pig because like I'm, I'm going to be honest. I'm not really interested in reading about that. But I did see, and just like trigger warning because this whole thing

has like animal things in it. Like I'm not going to talk super like a ton about it, but I just want to, it's sprinkled in there. Yeah, it's not for everybody. Because it's really not for me. It's really not. It's not for me. Now, people would like who later will see people, this farm becomes a hangout later. What the fuck? I know. It's weird. Why?

But people are around and people would come in and like see him slaughtering things and we'd kind of like hang around and watch him do it, like just to see it. Even that is pretty bizarre. And see his methods. What he would do, which was really weird, and I'm sure other people are going to think this is weird, is he would shoot the pigs sometimes in the forehead with a nail gun. I don't think that's part of like slaughtering and butchering. I don't think that's part of it. No, there's no way. Doesn't seem humane to me because then he would just slice their artery on the back of the leg,

stick a hook in it and hoist them up by their back legs and then just let them bleed to death. Yeah, that's not. That's not how you do it. That makes me so sad. So right here. Because pigs also, pigs are when I said they're the cleanest. Pigs are smarter than dogs. Yeah, they're very intelligent.

They're like literally like top of the list. Oh, yeah. So they knew what was happening. Yeah. It's horrific. I hate that. I need to go home right now and hug Franklin and Lux. I know it made me one.

I like snuggled Bubba. This has been such a week for me with Franklin and Lux. So the fact that we're doing this right now, like thanks a lot. We won't talk too much about the animals, but it just has to be, it's part of him as a horrible person. And of course, he would just like, you know, slaughter the animal, like gut it and everything. And he would catch the blood and everything underneath. And, you know, a neighbor said that. They remember going into the home and it was fucking disgusting.

Like a neighbor was like, I had to go in there once for something and it was like... And I never did that again. Like we had all heard about it, but you were not prepared for it until you see it. He said there was no furniture at all. What? It was just garbage everywhere. And he said in the middle of the living room there was just a dirty mattress on the floor. And he said there was just like food, dirt, garbage everywhere.

Can you imagine the bugs? Exactly. He said there were bugs crawling everywhere. flying around. And then he said, what's weird, he said all of the kitchen cabinets had locks on them and only Louise had the key. What the fuck?

And I read that on the farm book. I feel like there's bugs all over me. Fuck, fuck, fuck, I hate it. So the mother was like locking food away from them. Like what the fuck? I just feel so gross right now. They were raising these pigs obviously to be slaughtered. That's what this is.

It's a meat. They wanted, they were in the meat business. How do you need 700 of them, though? Well, in 1965, the family registered a business as B and C frosted foods. And frosted foods meaning like frozen meat, you know. Louise was like the head of the business. She ran that shit. She ran that family and she ran that business.

Like Louise was the one in charge. She sounds, I want to know more about her childhood. She's a lot. I really want to know about her childhood. Maybe I'll try to look for it for Part 3 if I can find it. I don't know if I'll find anything, but I'll look. Yeah. And the farm was registered as B&C Frosted Food Bank.

So this was the 60s. So not a lot of people have like big meat freezers. It just wasn't like a prevalent thing. Just a little icebox. And if you're going to buy meat, like big things of frozen meat, especially like a butchered like fresh meat, you need to keep it cold. Yeah. It's very important.

And people didn't have the means to do that, but they needed the meat. So the pictons decided to take advantage of the fact that they were making. banking bank on like selling real estate and use the cash to buy up a ton of industrial freezers like a hundred of them and they use these to set up a business where they could keep the meat that customers bought from their farm so they would store it for them if they didn't have means to keep it that's pretty smart and they also helped like other farmers store meat there and locals referred to this place as the meat locker but in reality louise changed the name of the business and she changed the name to B&C lockers at the end of it. So she kind of like

leaned into what people were calling it. Here's the thing though, if their house is that motherfucking gross, why do you want those people storing your food? You don't. You also hint hint, hint, don't want the meat that they're selling. No, why? Tell me right now. I can't tell you right now. I will not tell you right now. Are they serving human? I don't know. Bitch. No. I did not know that was part of this. It's, it's, it's part one or part two? Tell me right now. We'll go with part two. I'll go through it. You son of a bee.

So October 17th, 1967. What happens? This is the first big like, oh boy, this family's fucked moment. Like, no, but I mean like before this, you're like, it's a gross family. Yeah. Like you're just like, now we're adding fucked on top of it. Yeah. Like before this, you're kind of like, what? What the, like, what leather faces family looks like before you know that they kill people? You're like, wow, this is a gross family. I don't want anything to do with it.

Yeah, just like a lot is going on here. Well, October 17th, 1967, David, the younger brother, got his license. Uh-oh. And he's using the trucks that the farm uses, like his dad's truck. One day he's driving the truck. And he hits a 14-year-old boy walking down the street. This boy's name was Timothy Barrett, and he was walking home from a friend's home. So David hit him, like pretty hard, and then panicked and drove back home to the farm, leaving this kid bleeding in the middle of the road.

Jesus. So he immediately tells his parents, he tells Louise and Leonard. And they just, their first thought is not like, oh, we need to call the police. Their first thought is, okay, let's look at the damage on the truck. Okay. So they go out, they see giant damage in the truck. There's like, they said it was like a bowl-shaped dent where obviously from his head hit. And the truck had blood all over it.

And they did what any parents would do. They had David bring the truck to the family mechanic to fix the dent and pain over the blood. And the family mechanic was like at night. Sure, sure. Sounds good. And Louise went to look for Timothy. Okay. Because she was like, oh, you hit someone?

Where did you hit him? Okay. I'm going to go find him real quick. Why? So the mechanic, when David brought the truck to him, was like, okay, what happened? And he was like, okay, I can fix this dent because he was like, which he said it was weird because he's like, all their vehicles will like beat to shit. And he was like, and all the paint was flaking off of them. And he's like, it was weird that he came in to fix this one.

frantically needing me to fix this dent and paint over this stuff. Like he was like, why does this matter to you guys are disgusting? Yeah, why would this matter? Because it's evidence. So he, so the mechanics freaked out. He fixes the dent, but he's like, I'm not painting over whatever that is. Yeah, he was like, you can figure that out. I'm not painting over that very evident blood. Yeah, he was like, I'm not getting involved in this. So David told him, you know, I was like doing

stuff on the farm and he said something about like a log fell over and like fell on the front of the and started bleeding. It's the craziest thing. It's like so weird. And the mechanic was like, yeah, that doesn't match up with the damage. But like, again, I'm not a police officer. I don't want to deal with this. So he knew something bad was happened, but he also was really nervous to push it because he was like, the pictons are fucked and I don't want to be part of this. Yeah. I don't know what's going on here. So meanwhile, Louise found Timothy, badly hurt, still in the middle of the road, still lying there.

And her motherly instincts told her not to call for medical attention. Well, she doesn't have motherly instincts. But instead, they told her to roll this boy 10 feet off the road into a ditch and then leave him there and go home. Are you fucking kidding me? Their mother rolled this boy bleeding, this 14-year-old boy in the middle of the road that her son hit with his car into a ditch and then just went home. Like, I feel like that makes the problem ten times worse than just calling the police about a hit and run. Oh, don't worry, it did. Because when Timothy's family didn't hear from him, they formed a search party and called the police,

and they eventually stumbled upon his shoe in the middle of the road. She had not moved to that. it was his father who was a Royal Canadian Air Force member, by the way, who found his shoe. And when he picked it up, he said to his friend who was helping with the search, oh my God, this is Tim's shoe. Oh, no. Which can you, I can't even imagine. No, no, no, no.

So they follow, they can see blood. And they follow to the ditch and found Timothy dead in the ditch. He had been pushed into water at the bottom of the ditch. His father apparently like collapsed. Obviously. Dr. C.J. Cody, who is a. pathologist at the Royal Columbian Hospital in New Westminster was the one who performed the autopsy. And what they found was that Tim had a dislocated and fractured pelvis, which you know about that.

He had hemorrhaging in the back of his head and hemorrhaging all over his body, a fractured skull with a subcranial hemorrhage that, but he didn't die from any of those injuries. No. And none of those injuries were technically life-threatening. Yeah, he absolutely could have been saved, I bet. died when he drowned in the ditch with all of that damage done to his body already. Louise murdered him. Yes. Now luckily, the mechanic was watching the evening news, saw this and he was like, oh, like, this is too much. Like, I feel like this has, so he called the police. And he was like,

I just got to tell you what happened. Like he came in. He looked for me to do this. Like, there was damage. I feel like it's connected. He's like, let's keep this. And not a. Miss as fuck. Yeah, he was like, please don't tell them it's me. Now, police searched the Picton Place and matched paint from their vehicle to Tim's body. Oh, my God. Since he was a juvenile at the time, David was placed on probation and just had his license revoked until 21. What about Louise? Did they not find out that that's what she did? Exactly. He was charged with leaving the scene of an accident. How about the leaving the scene of a death? But they didn't like, they were just like,

oh, he wanted. Yeah. It's insane to me. That's nuts. Insane to, I mean, I mean, mean, this woman murdered a child. Like, they are literally demons, all of them. Terrifying. It starts from the, it starts from the ground up. And Tim's poor family. Yeah, it's horrific. Now, let's go to New Year's Eve, 1978.

Do I want to? Ding-dong, Leonard died. Sorry, Leonard. By Leonard. It sounds like he sucked. He sucked, too. He was an abusive asshole. Right.

So, David moved his, like, apparently, like, no one was too upset about it. But David ended up moving his 17-year-old girlfriend, Sandy, into the house. And how old is he at this point? He at this point, I think, was 20-something. Okay. Yeah, like not crazy older, but still. They ended up having two children together.

Okay. Named Tammy and Douglas John, who they called DJ. They soon split because obviously David is like a monster. And she moved to the kids away with her. Good. Now, Willie was apparently devastated because he was in love. with Sandy. Bitch.

Like, obsessed. He had asked her to marry him once. That's not okay. And she was like, no, thank you. She was like, I'm actually with your brother. She's like, no. And I'm actually on my way out. And she's like, you're actually like more than disgusting.

But thank you. She's like, so is your brother. And I realized that. Exactly. So that's interesting. Sandy does come back later. But same year in, what was it, 1978, there was a fire on the farm and it killed 600 pigs. Oh, no.

Which is devastating and also devastating to the business. Like, that's huge. I don't go to fuck about their business. But just saying. So Willie had begun to have at this point, he like started to have this like, it's not, it's not normally weird, but for him, I'm like, everything he does is weird. Yeah. He loved collecting pen pals, mostly in all women. Yeah.

He only wanted to talk to women. And he actually visited one of his favorites, a girl named Connie Anderson. and she lived in Pontiac, Michigan and claimed later that, so in, excuse me, and then later he claimed that when he went out there to visit her, that he was approached to become a male model. Honey. But that he turned it down. That's like when the people approach you in the mall and you take it serious. Yeah.

It's just, if that even happened. And he said it was like on the way to Pontiac, Michigan. Like he stopped in a few areas. And he was like, one day I was just walking down the street. and they were like, do you want to be in pictures? And when they said pictures, you don't think they meant horror films? Like, fucking Willie Pick. Like, he's a fucking goblin.

He's the worst. His shit radiates from the inside out. That's why he's so ugly because he's so horrific inside. And it's like for him to sit there. And even now, he's disclaiming he's going to be a male model. Like, fuck you, dude. Yeah. Your nickname was Ratface.

Get out of here. He's just the worst. A model for like, how? to not take care of yourself. He is. And it's, I know what he's done. So, like, I'm able to separate, like, this, like, sadness from, like, obviously. Yeah. And it's like, he's, trust me, you're going to be like, ha-ha. But yeah. And after visiting with Connie, he said, he thought they were, like, he basically said they were engaged. He was like, we met each other. We fell in love for engaged. Did Connie later say? Yeah. Later, he got home and Connie was like, no, like, we're not engaged. I think

they kind of like, it seemed very juvenile, the whole thing. Sure. But it's just like an interesting little tidbit. In 1979, the next year, Louise died from cancer. R.I.D. A murderer. So, Willie was devastated. He was the only one who was truly devastated, apparently. Everyone else just kind of moved on real fast. Listen, David's ass better have been devastated. Yeah, his mom, like, that's straight up murdered for you. She really put it all out there for you. But Willie was really sad because he was really close to his mother. He had actually taken care of her until her death. He bathed her. He changed her. He fed her. Nice of him to bathe her because she didn't bathe him. Right? Because she didn't bathe you when you were a kid. But she left, and this is even further of a kick in the ass to Willie.

So she left Linda and David in charge of the farm. Linda left your ass. And David is the youngest. Yeah, that's shitty. Like what? And left them money, but said in her will that only, so Willie was left money as well. But he couldn't get his money. money right away. Only he couldn't get his money right away. Why? Not until he turned 40 and only if he stayed at the farm until he turned 40. 40? He was pissed. Well, and why? She just did that to be a bitch. No idea what she thought. I don't know if she was thinking he was like irresponsible with money. Yeah, I don't know if she knew what he was deep down inside and was trying to like stop him from going out in the world or like stop him from having the available resources to further what he was.

I don't know. Or I don't know if that was just her being like, fuck you. I'm just going to fuck with you from the grave. That's so weird. It's very strange. Now, David at this time, because now they all own the farm. Linda's moved away still, like, so she's just, like, kind of dealing with it from afar. But Willie and Dave now are running this farm. Right. David had also started a business, like, delivering topsoil, and he was taking it from the farm. But the farm soil was, like, all contaminated and shit. So he was selling, like, all contaminated and shit. So he was selling, like, like, like fucked up topsoil. But he didn't give him the fuck. But he didn't care. And he also got another girlfriend named Vicki Evans at the time and he moved her in. There's a ton of this like where girls move in here, girls move out. It's a ton. And Willie was actually good to her two younger sisters who were like young. They were like 14 and six. They would come to the farm to like see

the animals and like see the filth. And I guess he was really good to them. By all accounts, he seemed to be very good with kids, which is very random. It's always strange when that's like the one weirdly, like, not redeemable characteristic, but like the characteristic that you just don't think you're going to see. It's like how Ed Kemper, doesn't Ed Kemper like read children's stories in prison? He like reads audiobooks. Yeah, he's wild. Yeah, he's strange.

So he's strange. He's pretty strange. That's one way to describe Edmund Kemper. I want to talk to him someday. I do too. It's so bad. So Willie stopped at this point trying to be. like a butcher, he stopped. He was, because he was in like an apprenticeship. Like, that was

what they started him on. He was six and a half years into an apprenticeship. He only had six months to go before he would get a certificate that would allow him to work as a butcher anywhere in Canada. So he could have gotten out of there. And he just stopped. Yeah, he just stopped. And he started getting junk cards and like buying cars at auctions that he would let just like rot on the farm. So that's why his mom didn't give him all the money. And I guess he did get like a small some up front from his mom, but like that was it. He wasn't getting the rest until 40. And he was just still being disgusting. Like, and the farm was getting worse and worse because now there's cars rotting on the property. Like the topsoil business is just like there's more trucks

in there. Imagine the topsoil business while the cars are like rotting into the earth. Yeah, exactly. Like spilling out like gas and fuel and shit. That's probably like really damaged people in Canada. Well, soon their business ventures turned into more and more illegal. shit. So David started dabbling. This is insane. It's crazy. Let me sit back a little more. I don't know if you just heard me readjust. Like I can't. I can't. Let me get cozy. Now David started dabbling in demolition. So he was starting to do like, you know, is that illegal? Like, no, this wasn't really like illegal. Oh, just like he was demoing like properties and stuff with a company. But Willie began working with the local hells angels. And so was David. Now they were having, that's, that's when we get like

into the illegal shit. That's usually when that happens. Things go awry here. He was using the farm to store stolen cars there. Oh, okay. It was like a whole connection thing. And he would take those stolen cars apart and he would sell the parts. So it was basically becoming a chop shop now on the farm. Yes. So now there's all these cars everywhere. They're all torn apart. There's parts everywhere. Oh, man. It's illegal. And apparently though, Willie was very adept at cars. Oh. Like he didn't have any formal training at all, but he was like he could take a part of car, he could put it back together, he could fix anything on it. It was just something he was very good at. That's slattering, apparently. That's really hard. It is. It's a weird talent to randomly just have. So,

not learn. While this is happening, they're still trying to make the farm run as a pig and meat business. But it was madness. So they hired some younger guys to work at the farm. A lot of these guys that they were hiring were like, near dwells. You know what I mean? Like they're not like the cream of the crop here. Willie would basically say he would pay them and then he would just not pay them. They were always doing scams like that. But then the hell's angels would intimidate them and make them steal cars for them. So these young kids are coming on the farm and now being forced to steal cars.

They're just being bullied into fucking crime. Now the cops at the time kind of knew this was all happening and were basically like, I don't know what to do about it. Like whatever. They were like, I'm actually not heading out to. the Pinkton Farm. Not adding out there. I'd like to keep my lunch in my tummy. And like I said, the farm is now becoming a place for Nerduels to hang out. And Willie ran it like basically anyone, because he had these weird things where he saw himself as like someone who helped people.

Like Robin Hood. Yeah. Like he said anyone down on their luck could just come to the farm. So then it just how they knew they were down on their luck. Yeah, that's how you know when you're going to the Picton farm. It's actually synonymous with rock bottom. And at this point, Dave is getting driving violations, because as we know from the other story, Dave is not a great driver. He got a, he actually committed sexual assault on a female worker at a construction site. He like somehow like got her into a trailer on the work site and like sexually assaulted her. She got, he got a slap on the wrist for that because his criminal friends started intimidating her to drop the charges. Oh, that's awful. Yeah. So he's a piece of shit. That's why like when I said like Dave is like, I don't know. He's probably just a little more quiet about his shit. So she, this girl like ended up moving to another city. Oh. Like it was horrible. Now he was a dick still and he's starting to date multiple women. He's abusing women. Like he's awful too. Vicky left him after 11 years, which I was like, what the fuck? Why did you stay in there for 11 years? Well, he immediately replaced her with another woman named Kassie.

She was a mother of two. She and a woman named Karen Kaufman were basically always at the farm during these days. And there were rager parties on the farm now with like bikers and shit. It was bonkers. This is not real. This is what I'm talking about. This doesn't sound real. No, this is not real. Because this place became like a place for like all the like criminals of the underworld to just converge on and just rage. Like they were just, there was so much drugs on this, like so many drugs on this farm. There was illegal shit happening all the time. Like women were getting sexually assaulted. Like, we'll find out later there's even more shit going on. It's just, it's like, I can't even. When does the meth lab get built? Honestly, it's probably already there.

Now, they would all just like, they would like dance party, have like bonfires and just like all this stuff. But Willie just kind of like hung around. Like he was a lurker. He was quiet. Willie was a wallflower. He was. Like people said they remember him during these days as being like somewhat pleasant, just like quiet and shy.

Like you would hang around for a little while and then not participate. Okay. One weird thing is that one afternoon, Dave brought Kathy and Karen down to the basement in the house because he was like, I want to show you where Willie, like I wanted to just like show you who Willie is. And they were like, what? I'd be like, I don't want to know who Willie is. Willie's bedroom was in the basement.

And it's like a whole farmhouse and they were like, you stay in the basement. It was dark and dank and like filthy in there, of course. He only had a mattress on the floor. That's it. The mattress had a large dark stain in the middle of it. Which I just have to like take a moment. It's probably just like sweat and jizz and all kinds of shit. All kinds of shit.

Oh my God. I am going to. I will be shocked if by part three, I haven't thrown up once. He also had one book of local history. Oh, sweet. And then he also had a taxidermied horse head on the wall. And it was his horse Goldie, who he loved. And he had taxidermine after he died.

All right. Now, they're standing there. And Dave is basically showing them, like, my brother's real gross. Like, and being like, they were like, he was like, I know that he's very quiet and like, unassuming, but like, don't trust him. Okay. Which they were like, okay. While they're standing there, Willie showed up.

Oh. And you didn't go into Willie's room. That was a no-no. What was he hiding? All kinds of shit. Well, he said, if you bring them here again, I'll kill both of them. Okay. Like, he literally said that.

And they were like, oh. I'd be like, we'll be going now. Then over dinner that night, he threw a glass of milk in Karen's face. Like, just out of nowhere. Okay. Yeah. Rude. And she, after that, he, after that,

she stopped coming to the farm. She was like, I have had enough of that. That's weird. And she said, rumors started circling that the Picton brothers were making snuff films and that the meat on the farm was not just animal meat. And she said she would never eat meat from that farm. She was like, I wouldn't do that even when I was hanging at the farm. My God. Mm-hmm.

Oh, my God. They supplied meat to a lot of Canada. Oh! Yeah. Oh. Yep. They, yeah. Yeah.

Ew, I don't, I, oh. This is, ready for the, you want to hear. No, no, just give me a second, can you? Let me cement more into you what kind of people we're dealing with. I think I know. I think I get it. There was a sign that said, we're trash. No trespassing.

Pit bull with AIDS. Oh, come. So these are the kind of people we're talking about. In case anybody feels any kind of like, oh, these people are just like weird and like fucked up. No, don't feel bad for them. Just in case. because I know sometimes when you hear about like a sad childhood, it's hard to like separate. This is not hard to disassociate.

Let me just tell you, these are the lowest of the low shitheads. That's so shitty. Yeah. Now, around this time, Willie started bringing parts left over from slaughter to a rendering plant called West Coast Reduction. Rendering plants basically like render down the leftover. It's like you drop off the leftover portions you can't use after slaughter like bones, feathers, you know, hair. all that shit. And they like render it down into gelatin a lot of times. And it's used in like candy and makeup and like other things that like people to use. Which is fine because usually

they check these things. They make sure that they're like whatever buckets are coming in or like what they say they are. But he did it so often that he became kind of a regular and they wouldn't even check his buckets. So they would just wave him in. So there was like a dead body in your mascara. When he couldn't bring them there himself, like sometimes when he couldn't get a car, like he just didn't want to or he couldn't, he would have like the rendering plant drivers because they would come and like pick up your stuff. Yeah.

And they bring them in for them. And one worker named Jim Kress recalled picking up some barrels for Willie. And he said, after a while he noticed that there was like legit meat in the buckets. And he was like, you don't render down meat. Like you save meat. Or like not human. makes sense. And then he said, the meat appeared black and in large portions. Is it like people's organs? It could have been like decay. Yeah. Or it could have been, you know, somebody that had black skin.

It also could have been somebody that had been beaten. And their skin had turned black. It could have been somebody that was burned. Uh-huh. Any number of things. Because he said he, it was weird. He didn't want to look at it. And he just kind of like moved about it. He said it was really scary and he didn't want to. Did he take those buckets? I think he got rid of those ones, but he said it was weird. He was like, there shouldn't be meat in rendering buckets. And he said it was like a lot of meat. Okay. Yeah.

So when Willie began going to this rendering plant pretty regularly, it was in town. And it was in a place called the downtown east side in Vancouver. It was a pretty well-known, like, block of, like, basically where a lot of sex workers were. there was a lot of areas that were like very well-known like drug like drug hangouts like places people could get drugs yeah it was just like there were parts that were very just like not the best parts in town very scary there were other parts that were like fine but like there was just you know there was a lot going on um so during this time that he's going down here he started looking for sex workers because he's like i'm here i'm lonely why not yeah so he started picking them up regularly

oh my god imagine if you were a sex worker and Willie picked in was like, you. You. I'd be like, no. You couldn't give me enough money. Oh, yeah. There's plenty of women that were like, no, thank you, sir. Oh, man.

Thank you, sir. No, sir. No, sir. No, sir. No, sir. So, yeah, it's no good. Ew. I need, oh, I need you to just, oh.

Yeah. Yeah. I really, I don't love it. How did you research this for so long? There's a lot. Also, who, why did you want to hear about this guy? There's so much. I'm not shaming you.

it all. Remember, so Karen had moved out. She was not coming to the farm anymore. Milk to the face. Now, Kathy, the one who was living there with Dave at that point, she moved out with her two daughters eventually. She was like, she had daughters. She had two daughters. Now, the farm was getting worse and worse by this point. I love that every few paragraphs. It's like, now the farm was getting worse. It's getting even worse. And it does. It gets worse. Now, it's legitimately littered with old rotting cars and just garbage everywhere. Dave started forcing his employees, like his drivers or people who worked on the farm, to participate in stealing cars for him, like, on the regular now. Every night, the farm was a fucking madhouse. There was just all the drivers and workers would come back

and party, and, like, the bikers would come, like, drugs. It just became every single night. It is insane. Yeah. And they basically, everybody who came said they just knew Willie as like the dirty, stinky, quiet, weird guy. Like, that's just what they all knew. And Dave was like a giant asshole to Willie, even though he was a younger brother. He would just like allow people to like steal shit out of his room and stuff. Like he was just a dick. And they would let like people just like people. And they would let like people like, like, people. And he would let like, people. And he would like, like, people. And it's interesting because like, it didn't seem like throughout his childhood. He showed any like rage or anger. No, there isn't any real like indication of that. No. Other than like the pigs. Yeah, exactly.

I think that was like how he got through it almost. But him and Dave had this huge knockdown, drag out fight. And Dave kicked Willie out of the house, was like, get out. Oh. So Willie ended up sleeping on a freezer in the barn for literally months. Oh. Yeah. And he just didn't care.

He was like, whatever else sleep on here. Okay. Like that was probably like he was like, cool. Now, David ended up buying some mobile homes for his. business, like the demolition business that they would like put on the job sites. And he let Willie live in one in the back of the property because he was like here now we can be like, because you know, we can stay away from each other now and everyone has a place to stay. You have your privacy. Like they kind of were trying to like mend it. Yeah. Just make it better. Their brothers. And he,

Willie was like very happy with it. Cool. So eventually he moved his motor home to where the demolition Dave was doing like on the job site because he was starting to work for Dave like helping with the demolition. So this was in North Vancouver. So he was like, why not just like sleep on the job site? And he just drove it out to the work site and parked it there. And then he would also, he was very close to downtown area. So, and that was the reason he did it. Yeah. Because then he would just drive into the area, pick up sex workers. It became kind of a routine for him. Now, this is also when he started hanging out in motel bars and like really seedy places to pick up vulnerable people. He liked the Astoria Hotel in Hastings, which was apparently a very regular hangout for very interesting characters.

And he would just kind of hang out. He would buy everyone drinks because he had tons of money. And he would bring girls home. That was just like his thing. He had tons of cash because they were genuinely making shit tons of money. And he was kind of like using it to like make people want to hang out with him. Why wouldn't you just like use it to like get yourself a house and a shower? And a dog. I think they liked as much as like obviously like, you know, his brother was a dick. I think like people were genuinely fine to him. Like nobody was like really mean to him except for Dave. And I think everybody just kind of thought he was weird, but they just kind of put up with him. I think he liked who he was. Like he liked being disgusting. He liked being filthy. He liked being a fucking dick. I just can't wrap my head around it. Yeah. I can't wrap my head around not wanting to feel clean. Yeah.

Now, I just, I can't either. I cannot. I really can't either. Now, around this time is when a record number of mostly indigenous sex workers were going missing. And nothing was being done about it. Nothing was really being looked into. It was kind of like they're less dead because of their lifestyle. Of course.

And it was, but it was becoming a point where people were like, there's like a serial killer out here. Right. We're not even seeing bodies most of the time. Sometimes there would be bodies, but a lot of times they just. disappeared. Right, because they were in Dave's demolition sites. It's, well, this woman named Kim Penderton was a police reporter for the Vancouver Sun. And she with another reporter, Neil Hall, were like adamant to get to the police to take indigenous women, especially those working as sex workers' disappearances. Seriously. Seriously. Yeah. So they hounded police about it. They kept

writing about the cases and they were like just trying to bring attention to it. They interviewed the family members, really got to know each of these women, who they were, wrote pieces about them to humanize them because they, again, had been seen as less dead and less human because of their jobs and their circumstances and sometimes of who they were, like just native. So it's like in 1987, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Force, they did make a task force that they were going to investigate at least 17 disappearances and murders in the area. Finally. And by 1989, they had pretty much given up on this task force. Awesome.

I believe the task force was called like Project Amelia. Oh. And was the first one. Later, it becomes Project Evenhanded. And that's like the one that actually like did something. So that's going on. This is in the background. In the background of this story is all of these missing women happening.

But realistically at the forefront of the story. while Willie is doing his thing. And eventually it all just gets brought to the forefront. Now, let's talk about a woman named Lisa Yelds. She was 38 years old when she met Willie. And her son was friends with Willie's nephew. And the way that they met was that on one evening, I think it was New Year's Eve, actually, she called the Picton home looking for her son and wanting him to come home because he hadn't called.

It was New Year's Eve. She was worried about him. And he said her son was friends with the nephew. Exactly. Dave's son DJ. Okay. So Willie did her solid. He was like, I'll find him and I'll bring him home for you. Like, I'm going to help you out.

So because I think the Picton farm was only like a few houses down from hers. Okay. They became fast friends. Like, she appreciated it. They just got to talking. They formed a real bond. Like, they were not in a relationship, like a sexual relationship. They were just very bonded.

She would go to the farm from there on out. She would help him out. She would try to clean up his motor home form. She became kind of the voice of reason, like talking him down when he needed to talking down, telling him that he was disgusting and stinky when he was disgusting and stinky. And like she was the only one he would listen to. Almost like a mother figure. Yeah.

Like there was times when like he respected her, it seems. Or like a sister even. Yeah. So she would like randomly just be like, dude, you're fucking gross. You gotta take a shower. I can smell you. Like please just go do something. And he would be like, okay.

What's weird is people said that he took care of his teeth. really well. That's just like an interesting. Maybe he like didn't like the taste of bad breath. But it's like you are a foul like just basement goblin who like rolls around in your own shit and pig shit and like other things. And then you're like got to brush your teeth. Well, teeth things hurt. They do. That's true. So maybe he didn't want to get shit. Like maybe he had a bad experience and was like I'm not doing that again. Because I'm just shocked by it. It's just like doesn't seem like something that would be high on the priority list. No, it definitely doesn't. Just very weird. But also I feel like he didn't want to.

and his money like fixing his teeth. No, he definitely didn't. So he was like, I'll just do that myself. Good point. So he said they became so close, they were like siblings, but she said it always that's just funny now. She said it always bothered her how much he reminded her of Ed Gein. What the fuck? Which like, you never, yeah, your brother friend shouldn't remind you of Ed. Yeah, you never want someone who's very close to you, like, to have an Ed Gein vibe. No, let's Let's never keep the Ed Gein kind of company. Yeah. Remove the people from your life that remind you of Ed Gein.

That's just my personal advice. Yeah. I think it works. I think it's a nice blanket statement. I don't know. I agree. She said that both Dave and Willie were super paranoid about cops whenever they were driving or doing anything.

And she assumed it was just all the shady dealings at the farm. And she was like, they're probably just always worried about them showing up. Yeah. But now she knows it was definitely a lot more than that, especially when he was driving. like Willie was very concerned about a cop pulling him over. Oh. Yeah. Same.

In the same book, like at the farm, Lisa said, I always had this thought in the back of my mind that Willie could be a serial killer. Why? And then she said, but I was never afraid of him myself. I knew he would never hurt me. That is a lot of faith in somebody to keep. Sure is. That is.

Keeping a lot of faith in your friend. Like, there's never been a point where I've been like. I always wondered if my friend was a serial killer, but like, I didn't do anything about it. I can't even think of one friend adjacent. No. That would be like that was like serial killer-esque. Like, if you think your friend might be a serial killer, like evaluate. Even if you think your friend's friend is a serial killer, also evaluate. Evaluate, dad. If anyone you are in contact with seems to be serial killer-esque, do something. Well, and apparently Dave was a big dick to Lisa. Like, he did not like Lisa. I think he didn't like her because, like, she was nice to Willie. Yeah. I think it was like something

weird with he hated it. He was such a dick to his brother. He probably had like a complex where like, he needed to be like the better brother. Yeah, I think it was weird. Like a little man's complex because he's like the younger one or like, or like, willy's not allowed to have like female attention or something like that, even if it's just like a friend. Yeah, because it seems like he like to like collect women. Yeah. And she ended up working in like the slaughterhouse with Willie. Like she was really just like working on the farm now. Okay. And when Dave. wouldn't want to do that. She said that Dave would greet her as, quote,

hi, you fucking loser. How are you? What the fuck? I'd be like, great loser. How the fuck are you? Like, what the fuck? Well, by now, Willie was buying, selling, slaughtering animals, and was also doing the demolition business,

fixing cars, auctioning cars, doing the chop shop, and then started a cockfighting ring on the farm as well. That's not okay. They would have huge parties and cockfights. People would bet on them, and the pictons would get. admission money. They would sell beer and food and also portions, they would get portions of the

profits from the betting. What the fuck? Like, this is fucked. And the way they describe it, it's like this horrific, I mean, cockfighting is not something I even want to go into. No, I don't even want to talk about it. But when they describe it in the book, it's just this horrific, horrific event that everyone, it just was, and it attracts like the worst of the worst. How do you stand there and watch something like that and put your head on a pillow at night? I don't know. I really. don't know. If I walk by Franklin without petting him, I think to myself, you're a fucking asshole. You better backward step and pet the shit out of that cat. Pet the shit out of that cat. Literally, I walked by him the other day and I was like, oh, you're so cute. And then I like didn't pet him. And I was

like, oh, I got to go pet him. I got to love you. Like, yeah, I don't understand. Well, they were hiring tons of people for the farm and also their various businesses that they were running, but they're not paying a lot of these people. They're just like fucking with them. Yeah. So all the workers were either they were like drunk 24-7 or on drugs while working. And they're working with like heavy dangerous equipment, driving vehicles. And soon these workers are getting pissed because they're not getting paid. So now they're having all these enemies forming. These workers are stealing some of the equipment to sell to get their money. So now the pictons are losing more money than they're making sometimes because people are stealing all the shit. It's just may have. It's a good. dumpster fire on a dumpster fire. Yeah. And they're like constantly having vehicles wrecked by these people. So they're having to deal with insurance and shit. Like everyone was dirty, terrible and no one trusted anyone on this farm. It was just fucking like, you know what it is? What? It's worse than a dumpster fire. It's a sewer fire. It is. It's like, yeah. It's, oh. Well, I just can't. I really

Like there should be a TLC show about this. Well, and while this is all happening, and again, remember, in Vancouver at this time, all these women are going missing. So the sex workers took shit into their own hands because no one's helping them. Yeah, you've got to protect each other. So they knew there was at least one serial killer at large, preying on sex workers. Imagine knowing that as a sex worker. Yeah.

And so what they did was they started forming buddy systems. They were in teams. They were writing down license plates. They were taking note of everybody that everyone was. went to. Hell yeah. And they decided to help each other out and do like a bad date list where they would add the list like the name of a man that was like a bad John. Like, you know, like just if they were aggressive. Thought a weird vibe. Yeah. Anything that was bad, they would add them to the list so everyone would know. They were really trying to do their own thing because they're just trying to like work.

Willie Picton must have been somewhere on those lists. He ended up on that list. Now in 1991, this is just like like something that I was like, oh, um, family. of the missing women and advocates for them organized a Valentine's Day walk to remember the missing and murdered women and they would do it like every year. Yeah. And I don't know if it still goes on now.

I'll have to check that. But in 1996, Dave was like doing demolition at a country bar in nightclub that needed to be torn down. He decided he was like, hmm, why don't I make my own bar? Because I don't have anything else going up.

And why not? Not like I have 87 other hats on at the moment. Not like I have like a cockfighting ring at my house. But so he, he's demolishing this country bar and thinking about his own. And he starts removing material from the, yes, he starts removing stuff from it. Like, he was like, I'm going to remove, you know, parts of the bar and parts of the dance floor. And I'll make my own on my property. So he makes a janky used bar. Yeah. So he figured it would be a huge draw. The cockfights and shit drew so many people to the farm. And people are already raging at this farm.

And he's already got the Hells Angels and their associates always on the farm. It's wild that he didn't already have a bar. Yeah. So he's like, I might as well. Just have one and make money off of it. So he had a piece of land that they had bought around the corner from the farm on Burns Road. And they got this guy named Scott Chubb and Marty DeWinter. Obviously.

Obviously Scott Chub was running the show. Scott Chubb This is literally like Pond Stars like Chumley I just Chumley is running around

all over the place This shit is so fucked It's so weird Well you know Scott Chubb and Marty DeWinter They helped him build this place And they named it after what everyone called their father in them

Piggy So they decided it would be called Piggy's Palace. I'm vomiting. Because they're gross. I am vomiting. Because they're fucking gross. How do you find yourself at Piggy's Palace? So many people did.

I need to know how they found themselves there. Piggy's Palace was fucking hopping. Okay, wait. Musical groups came and performed there. That's heinous. Not like fancy ones, but like musicians. Obviously not. Like off-duty police officers would go there sometimes.

I'm just saying. You know what I would love to know? What? Was Dave paying taxes? Oh, I guarantee you he wasn't. Every time you were like, a new business, a new business, a new business, I was like, this motherfucker is not paying taxes. Does he have an account?

How do you keep track of all that business paperwork? You just don't pay it. Like, you think fucking Chubb is going to get together your W-2s? No, I don't think Scott Chubb was going to do it. No. Well, what they did was they used an old dilapidated barn and they redid it all. So they used material from the demolition of the other club and restaurant and built a bar, a dance floor, a kitchen. There was actually seating for up to 150 people in there.

Wow. A disco ball was hung, of course. And they like decked it out. They decorated it. They made it like a real bar. And they did full food, lots of barbecue, of course. Never in my life would I eat at Chumlee. Lots of barbecue.

Piggy's Palace. No. Piggy's palace. No. Lisa Yelds actually worked as a waitress there for a bit. She said Dave was an absolute dickwad to her. Awesome. They had one of the most known criminals in the area working the door, and he was a known crack

cocaine dealer. Okay. Cops frequented the place in their off time, even though it was a known haunt for drugs, illegal shit, and, like, criminals. Maybe they were, like, crooked cops. Yeah, of course they were. There was a lot back then. Oh, yeah.

I'm sure it has changed by now quite a bit from what it was. There was a lot back then, just period. Not even like crooked cops. There's a lot of everything back then. Well, David and Willie, this is where it's hilarious. David and Willie registered the new business under the name. No, no. Piggy's Palace, Good Time Society.

I just, I just really can't anymore. Good Time Society. Like, what the fuck? Can you imagine getting your paste? You fucking losers. Piggies Palace, Good Time Society. Like, losers. It's just unbelievable.

Piggy's Palace, Good Time Society, man. Like, wow. I have to be really bad in that just sent me. Well, they registered it as a charity. They said it would be used to raise money for service organizations by having huge ragers and shit. That's what they were going to do. Oh, so I wonder if that's how they got away with me.

I think that's how they got away with it. Also, I don't really know how taxes work in Canada. I think they were able to use this charitable thing. But the Hells Angels took it over a lot, and nothing was being sent to charitable organizations. Clearly. They would have parties of like 1,700 people there. Jesus. And they would just rage.

And there's only seating for 150 people. Yeah. And the neighbors around here, like all the surrounding areas would complain because it was madness. In 2000, like just jumping ahead, they did, and the city of Port Coquitlam actually shut it down. So that's good. Wow. So no more Piggy's Palace. It's a funny.

society. I was like, oh, not that long ago. And then I was like, oh, 21 years ago. I know. It doesn't feel like it was. No. Now, this is around the time that Willie ended up getting a new bigger mobile home. So that's good for him. Upgrade. It had more room, had an office in there for him. Let me up. And he parked it in the back of the Picton farm again. So now he's on the property again. I don't know. I don't know. I just don't know. Well, you do now. Now, he also became more and more known to the neighbors and people around town as a weird, scary guy. Because now he's not becoming like, he's not just the quiet guy anymore. Now he's getting a little weird and scary.

What's he doing? That's weird. He could be super nice, but also he would use his farm equipment loudly into the night and never cared if families complained of the noise. He was like, fuck off. There were several complaints from the new houses built on the property, like around the property, that the stench from the Picton's farm was literally permeating their home. and they were like we like something needs to be done about it. And at this point it was definitely bodies.

But the Picton brothers just didn't give shit. Wow. Now Lisa moved, moved away with her kids at this point. She was like, I have to head out. Because she said this whole like Piggy's Palace Good Time Society situation was like getting a little too much. She just didn't want to be like totally involved in it anymore. And she didn't end up coming to the farm a lot after this.

She kind of like pulled back a little because she could see that like weird shit was happening. Because she thought her friend had serial killer vibes. Well, and what we'll learn is that she saw some shit. And so she was not, she wanted to get away from there. And we'll learn that. Don't worry. And she said, so Willie, you know, lost his good friend, basically. She was living there. Like, that was like his, like sister. Yeah. So he basically was like, I need to replace her with someone else. So he replaced her with another girl he knew named Gina Houston. Gina Houston was basically trying She was, I think she worked as a sex worker at one point, but she kind of just started using Willie as like a sugar daddy.

Okay. Which a lot of these women were doing, they kind of see that he had a lot of money. Can you imagine? And they just kind of use him for it. If Willie Picton was buying. Like Willie Picton's buying your Louie bags. No. Unreal.

No. Unreal. Nope. Don't want that. Oh. Ew. Ew. I don't want anything to do with that.

The more my brain thought about that, the more irked I got. I don't want it. Oh, man. No, thank you. Oh, man. Well, she was basically, her job was kind of to try to get women to come back to the farm for Willie at this point. That became, like, one of her jobs. So she's a pimp.

Kind of. Yeah. And at one point, she claimed, so Gina Houston is a real piece of work. Clearly. And she, like, she had kids. She was just like, she was a lot. She was a lot. Yeah.

At one point, she claimed that they were engaged, even though they did not, like, they were never engaged. It's weird. She was using the name Gina. picked in at one point. Yeah. She just wanted his money. That's all this was. She saw him as like, ooh, he's an easy target. She wanted to attach herself to that. Now, apparently some of the women were looking out for each other, especially in downtown east side, and they were making sure that Gina stayed away from places where these girls were hanging out. Oh, so like Gina got on their list. Like some of the older sex workers were kind of like, no, like stay away from them. Like,

because they were kind of like, I know what you're doing. You're trying to lure them back to the farm. And weird shit happens there. We don't want them out of the farm. Yeah, there were like weird shits happening there. I don't want them there. Now, soon, he added another girl onto his list of, like, girls that would, like, lure other girls in. Her name was Dina Taylor. And she had once tried to lure, um, lure this girl named Lynn out to where Willie and her were. This girl, Lynn, who had, like, kind of come to the farm a lot. And she had once tried to lure her. She told us the story later, out with them. And to this day, this girl Lynn swears, it was to kill her. Like, she was like, I, like, I I know, and we'll see why, like, Lynn is like a fixture on the farm for a little while, and then kind of leaves. But she said when Dina called, she was like, I knew. Like, when Dina called, I was like, oh, something's fucked up. Like, so this is who Dina was.

Oh, my God. Dina was another piece of work. Left town. Yeah, she was a scary, scary lady. And just like Gina, Dina was using Willie for money. And she knew his PIN number. His girls are Gina and Dina. That just hit me.

Gina and Dina. And she knew his pin number and she could get cash and clothing and drugs from him whenever she wanted. Okay. And she started getting the same treatment Gina did. Everyone knew that she was trying to lure these girls out to the farm. So they made her leave places. Like they were trying to protect girls. I love that there's like an army of sex workers just like protecting each other.

I think that's badass. They really did. They were really trying to protect each other. It was crazy. That's like my favorite part of the story. Yeah, it really was. And one of Willie's things was like he didn't do drugs. And neither did Dave, I guess.

And neither of them really drank that much. Okay. But they wanted to be surrounded by it all the time. Okay. And also, Willie had a thing where he liked to buy, like, these sex workers and especially drug-addicted ones, more drugs, because he wanted to be... Yeah. And he also wanted to be seen as, like, this, like, hero figure.

Yeah. He was very... He had such a weird complex of, like, his personality is just very strange. It would be interesting to like psychologically evaluate him because he had such weird, like, delusions of who he was as a person. He really thought he was like this great person that everybody should just want to be around. Oh. Now, Gina did say later that one time she went onto the farm to get a pig that she had helped butcher. And there was a large freezer in the barn, the butchering barn that was covered in a blanket.

And there was a bunch of tools laying on top. And she started kind of like walking towards it because she was like, what the fuck is this? And she said, Willie didn't say a word, but just looked at her and shook her head. Shook his head. And she just backed off and never asked. But she was like, I know some shit was in there. Because he just looked at her like, no, don't look in there. What the fuck?

Yeah. I like, I don't know how to watch. Yeah. I just what? Oh, yeah. So then we come up to a woman named Tracy Bayon. She was almost a victim of Willys. Who wasn't at this point?

Now, she had seen Willie a ton at the Astoria Motel, and she knew he was there and picking up girls all the time. So one night he picked her up for, he said he would pay her for a sex act. So she was like, sure. So she said, she went into the trailer. And her quote from the book that I mentioned earlier was, it smelled terrible. It smelled of animals, like barn animals. And then he took me out to his trailer, which was fucking disgusting. As soon as you got in the kitchen, you couldn't go.

go any further. There was clothes everywhere. The kitchen had a big counter with a sink and a little propane heater. The parking lot was built at the side of the trailer. As you came in, the kitchen was right there and on the left was the rest of the building. What I could see was just the kitchen. I couldn't go any further. He said, let's go in there, but I couldn't get past all the mess. So they then just did their thing. And then suddenly, Willie pulled out a knife and accused her of stealing his wallet. What? And she was like, what? He then used the knife to cut two buttons off of her shirt. And she ended up getting the fuck out of there. And suddenly, he just suddenly turned it off after that. And he was like, I'll drive you back downtown. Oh my God. I'd be like, no.

And on the way there, on the way back downtown, because she was like, I have to get back down town. Yeah. What am I going to do? And they've probably been through this kind of shit before. We're like crazy men. Right. And on the way back downtown, he told her how he loved to help working girls get off drugs. But said if they slip up once they don't deserve to live. Oh, my God. So she was like, okay. She's like, I'm going to go ahead and add that name to the list. And I'm going to tell you two other stories before we end for part two.

I'm ready to end. So March 10, 1997, 25-year-old Kara Ellis disappeared. Now, she had been working as a sex worker and also was deeply addicted to drugs at the time. This is relevant because her good friend Maggie Gile, who had gotten herself clean, recently after 30 attempts at getting clean. Oh, good for her. Was determined to get her friend Kara clean as well. And she wanted to get her out of her life downtown east side.

She was like, I want none of this for you. They had been roommates in a previous rehab center, but Kara had relapsed hard, falling right back into everything. And she was staying at a place called the Vernon rooms in Vancouver, but what everybody there knew and what the girls called, the Hoden, where management ran the place super cruelly, horrible. They would charge these women money to basically, like, work in these rooms. So essentially, they were pimps.

And then they started working in drugs. So they demanded the girls living in this place, bought drugs exclusively from them. And if they got drugs outside of the home, they would be severely beaten for it. Oh, my God. What the fuck kind of place is this? It sounds horrific. I don't even know that existed. That's why I'm telling you, go read that book because this book will, like, go into so much more detail and tells you so many more different places.

in this in Vancouver, like at this time that were like underground places, you know, that you would never know about if you didn't read. Right. I'm telling you, it's amazing. Now, she, Kara had been through this several times. And on the last time that she was caught with drugs that were not bought in the home, she ended up in the hospital. Oh, they beat her so bad she ended up in hospital.

Now, she saw her friend Maggie in March and she tried to get her to enter recovery with her, but Kara refused. she said that this was the last time anyone saw her alive. She had family, though, and she was still in touch with her siblings and their kids and her parents. They all lived in Calgary. And when she went missing, they didn't notice right away because they said, you know, she kept in touch, but she would go like a long period of time without talking. When her sister-in-law went to file a missing persons report in August 1997, they basically told her,

sure, we'll file it. But like, she's a sex worker. I don't know what you want me to do. She's also a drug addict. So they just didn't give a fuck. And that was it. She was later tied into the victims of Willie Picton. Wow.

Now, this last story I will tell you before we end for part two is the one that I was like, what what? What one? So March 22nd, 1997, a 31-year-old sex worker whose name is under a publication ban. So we don't know her name because you cannot publish it. She was working in Vancouver's downtown east side. We'll call her Emily. I'm just going to call her Emily.

Yeah. She was a mother of two and ran into Willie Picked in while down on her luck. She had a boyfriend who was really cruel and demanded money from her often. She had a very intense drug addiction. It required her to inject speed balls up to five times a day. And she had gambled her last 60 bucks away before she ran into Willie. He saw her on the street in the downtown East Side and offered her a hundred bucks to come back to the farm for a sex act. He promised to bring her back in an hour, and she was psyched because she was going to be getting more money than what she lost.

Right. So she could bring that back to her boyfriend. It's just like really sad. That is very sad. So she got in his red pickup truck, and on the way to the farm, she noticed a bra on the seat. And when she asked what that was all about, he said another working girl had left it. Okay. Like, cool.

She already had a bad feeling. And when she went into his trailer, she noticed, like everyone else, it was disgusting and filthy. And then she saw a huge butcher knife. just like laying on the counter. Oh, God. And she was like, of course everybody uses knives for like cooking and shit. Not everybody leaves them out. Well, and she was like, it gave me a weird vibe.

But he let her to his bedroom. The bedroom had only a sleeping bag on the floor and a roll of plastic sheeting next to the sleeping bag. What the actual fuck. And she was like, oh. And she panicked and asked if she could use the phone to call her boyfriend and just let him know that she would be late. And he refused to let her use the phone. He did allow her to use the phone book to look up the number because she was like, I just need to write it down so I can call him at the pay phone. Because he told her like, I'll drop you off at this gas station and you can use the phone.

Right. So he grabbed her from behind while she was looking at this phone book and forced her one of her hands into handcuffs. Oh, no. Like straight up Ted Bundy's style, like one hand in cups and she was able to get the other one. So it was hanging like the cups were on her wrist. Oh, my God. She fought. And he began like beating her.

Like she had, she was, he was literally punching her in the face. Oh my God. And she had him back. She basically was like, all right, I got to get to that butcher knife. So she basically had him back her up towards where she remembered the knife was. What a smart woman. And then she reached behind her, grabbed it, and sliced him in the cheek and neck with it. Good.

Like, ended up really doing a shit ton of damage. Too bad she literally didn't murder him. Well, and she ended up blacking out. And she didn't, she obviously didn't know why at the time. But at one point she woke up outside still fighting him. What? Yeah. And he was blacking out from blood loss.

And what happened was he had stabbed her in the like abdomen, the hand. Like several times she had been stabbed. And she had blacked out from blood loss. So she didn't even, she probably had so much adrenaline running through her. She was just kept going. She didn't know that she had even been stabbed. Exactly. And now he's losing blood.

So he's blacking out while this whole thing is happening. And eventually she was able to wrestle the knife from him again and run towards the street. And she said she ended up running to a home across the street. But no one answered the door. So she's just like banging on the door trying to like break a window basically. Like just let me in. Literally. Well, an elderly couple was driving by and saw her.

And the man, this elderly man jumped out of the car to help her. Oh. And he like basically was like get in the back seat, like got her in the back seat. and she told him see that farm right there and he was like yep and she said she said if she died she said if i die the person who lives in a trailer on that farm did it what like told her and then this guy later said that when she was running he could see her intestines coming out of her eye that's how badly she was like in oh my gosh yeah oh my gosh that makes my stomach hurt yeah exactly The elderly woman called 911 and they met them, like 9-1-1, so they could just like start going to the

hospital. It's like her intestines are falling out. It's insane. Yeah, it's crazy. And the couple told the police that she had told them that the man who did this had also been stabbed. So they were like, just so you know. So she went into emergency surgery at Royal Columbia Hospital in Westminster. She was stabbed four times, two in the abdomen, one in the arm, and one in her.

her rib, which punctured her lung. Ah. While they're working on Emily, they tell the doctors that another stabbing patient is coming in. And look at that. It's Willie Picton, who was sent there from a smaller hospital that he had gone to because they didn't have the resources to treat him because she had fucked him up. Hell yeah. Now they found the key.

She still had the handcuff attached to her wrist. This is like the Cindy Hindi shit. Yes. They found the key to the handcuffs in his pocket when they were like getting his clothes. How? What? they immediately the police go over to her while she's like in surgery or like going into surgery they go up and they use the key on the handcuff and it opens like that's how they realize it was the

same so they immediately get a search warrant for the property he said some bitch had stabbed him and that's the story that's what his story was some bitch stabbed me and he basically said like some druggy like you know like sex worker he probably said like something terrible about it course. He was taken home, Willie. He was treated for like three days. And he was taken home after they realized the fucking key in his pocket opened those handcuffs. Oh yeah. Because he's claiming, well, she's a druggie, like, sex worker. And he's basically saying like she attacked me and was trying to and he's saying she tried to rob me. So they're not going to believe her. And he has injuries. So now he's saying like, I was just defending myself. Wow. Yeah. So Dave actually took him home a few days later.

and they called in Lisa yelled again to clean up the bloody trailer and take care of him. So she came back. Yes. So she came back. Meanwhile, Willie's version of the events was again that Emily had approached him, not that he had approached her, and that she had demanded $200 up front, then saw money in his trailer and threatened him with a knife to give her the cash. So he defended himself and she ran. That was his story.

The entire time Lisa was taking care of him. He was telling her to find out where Emily lived so he could take care of her. Why was Lisa still continuing to come back and clean? I'm not going to do that. And she was basically like, I thought he was just mad because she had stabbed him in the face and like the neck. And like he had like 150 stitches. And like I guess I guess it had broken some of his teeth. Oh, he was probably pissed because he loved his teeth.

He loved his teeth. So he was like, she was like, I assumed he was just mad and was like just saying things. But April 8th, 1997, he was charged with attempted murder. Good. Unlawful confinement and aggravated assault. The charges were dropped for why? Because she's a sex worker and a drug addict. The fact that that shit happened, like probably still happens, is so fucked up to me.

Yep. Like, I guess that was basically like what it was and she felt like that it wasn't going to matter. So I think she also just didn't show up to court. So they were like. And she was probably too scared to. Well, that's the other thing because she was being intimidated. She probably just, like, ran away. Which I don't blame her.

That's the beginning of Willie Picton's reign of terror. The fact that that is the beginning. Yeah. How many victims are there? That 49. Are killed. 49 women are killed. And let me tell you, he was sad.

He didn't get that even 50. Who was 50 supposed to be? Did he have somebody that was supposed to hear? No, he just wanted the number. He didn't like that it was 49. Are you kidding me? Yeah, and don't worry. We'll find out how we know that in part two.

I'm so stressed out. All right. So we have an Instagram, I think, right? Is that how? We have an Instagram. We do that. That's how that works. And also, you know what, if I can squeeze, just to like put this out of it, if I can squeeze it into two parts, I will, but I really think this will be three.

But our Instagram is at Morbid podcast. And I have on Twitter. At a morbid podcast. Send us a g-mail. podcast at gmail.com. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But never as weird as they kept it out of that farm because you will get arrested and you will be in trouble. Goodbye. Do not be a picton. Don't even be a pictum adjacent. Use soap and water.