Morbid - Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

On January 12, 1983, the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Department received a call from a frantic driver who reported they’d just witnessed a shooting on the side of the side of the road in Fulton, California and the shooters had fled the scene a pickup truck. Deputies quickly located the truck and were led on a forty-five minute high-speed chase through Sonoma and Napa counties before finally being apprehended and identified as Michael and Suzan Carson.The Carsons were held on a charge of murdering the truck’s original owner, Jon Charles Hellyar, but they refused to say a word to police. In time, however, Michael and Suzan Carson began to talk and eventually held a press conference during which they revealed a great deal about themselves and even went so far as to make ambiguous confessions to other recent murders in Northern California.In the months that followed their arrest, Michael and Suzan Carson reveled in their notoriety and the media attention their statements captured. In addition to the murder of Hellyar, they would also be convicted of two other murders, claiming themselves to be Muslim warriors on a mission to rid the world of witches and other practitioners of dark magic, earning them the nickname “The San Francisco Witch Killers.”Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1983. "Couple complains their trial didn't get enough publicity." The Californian, April 28: 29.Brewster, Rod. 1983. "Carsons claim their killings were 'will of God'." Petaluma Argus-Courier, May 4: 1.—. 1983. "Carson's preliminary hearing on murder stats." Petaluma Argus-Courier, March 4: 2.Daily Beast. 2020. "Daughter of serial 'witch kiler': if he goes free, 'someone else will be dead'." Daily Beast, May 27.—. 2015. "Witch-killers' family: Keep them in Jail." Daily Beast, December 3.Manes, George. 1983. "Probe of suspects widens." Press Democrat, January 30: 1.Napa Valley Register. 1983. "Chase probe continues." Napa Valley Register, January 18: 2.Navarro, Mireya. 1984. "'Good witch' to the rescue." San Francisco Examiner, May 30: 11.—. 1984. "Remorseless 'witch-killers' get 25 to life." San Francisco Examiner, July 2: 15.Reynolds, Richard D. 1988. Cry for War: The Story of Suzan and Michael Carson. San Francisco, CA: Squibob Press.Saludes, Bony. 1985. "Carson says trial unfair." Press Democrat, June 19: 2.San Francisco Examiner. 1984. "Carson comptent for trial." San Francisco Examiner, January 9: 14.Sharpe, Ivan. 1983. "Couple boasts to police of killing 3 'witches in holy war'." San Francisco Examiner, April 28: 24.United Press International. 1984. "Guilty verdict in 'witch' murder." Petaluma Argus-Courier, June 5: 2. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. Together, reunited morbid. We're in the same room. We're in the same room. I feel like I'm having to like think about how I'm talking and like look at these waves because I can't hear myself. And it's horrible.

Ash has an ear infection on top of being, well, COVID negative now. COVID-Kovie Neg. COVID-Negg. Cov-Negg. So, but you know, lingering ear infection, not great. Yeah, I went to the doctor this morning and you know, when you go to the doctor and you're like, I'm crazy. Like, there's nothing wrong with me. And then you're like, you're going to be embarrassed because like you go and then nothing's wrong. So she looked in my one ear that like wasn't bothering me as much.

And she was like, no, no, like, that's fine. She was like, no infection. I was like, all right. And I was kind of like, damn it a little bit. Because you're like, am I just like feeling things? Yeah. I was like, I'm going to leave here and I'm going to feel like a dumbass. And then she looked at my other ear and she was like, oh, very infected. Okay. And you're like, all right. Well, there that is. Yay, I'm not wrong, but, ooh, that sucks. But you know what? We're at the end of the road here of all the... We are.

What happened? We're not at the end of the road because I did just get a text from Drew that he had to rip up some of our floor. Oh, no. Yeah, I just looked over and I was like, oh, no, what's going on? Yeah, I just looked down really quick because I've been keeping track of his text messages because we're having a little problem in our basement. So that's fun. Yeah, you know what?

We found out recently that Saturn is in retrograde. grade, which by the way, lasts a really fucking long time. Yeah, it's till like October everybody. And don't act like you don't know her. I know her. Don't act like you don't know Saturn, girl. She's my planet. Yeah.

She's your planet and she's fucking everything up. But I looked it up because I was like, I feel partially responsible for this because, like, I'm a Capricorn and it's my planet. And Drew is. Get away from me. You too. I know. I'm sorry.

But what I found out about it was, and you can probably like, explain this better than I can. No, I think you can. I think it's. said because unlike Mercury retrograde, which is like relatively short, you never get to vibe with Mercury retrograde. It just fucks your whole world up and then it's gone. Like just tornado time and then it leaves and you have to clean up all the pieces. Yeah. But this one lasts so long that at first it fucks you up, which.

And we're still in the pretty beginning, I think. Can confirm that it does. Oh, yeah. I don't know if anybody else is feeling. C seizure. Ear infection. kind of shitty people lately. Yeah.

Just like in life, I mean. Yeah, it's just like everybody's just miserable. Yeah. I feel like I keep seeing like it's just nothing's, nothing's really going well. But you know what? Started jiving yet. But I think we're on our way. Right now, knocking on wood, I'm feeling good.

So. Well. But I think this lasts so long. Oh, yeah. That apparently you get to vibe with it eventually. Like you start to understand it. It starts to understand you. And you start to like, together. Like at first, it's like new roommates who leave like our meet off a Craigslist and they're like, I don't fucking know you. You have to learn all my shit. And then at first it's like boom, boom, boom, I hate you. You like you left broccoli on the top shelf of the refrigerator. And I like it on the bottom in the little vegetable bin where it belongs. You know what I mean? Like it's all that kind of shit. I don't know what you mean? Because luckily I've never had to have a roommate other than you or Drew. You left my, you wet down. You put. I, I, I, I

I don't know how to talk. I don't know how to talk. You left my dope. I was going to say you left my damp clothes on the floor in the laundry room instead of putting them in the dryer. If anyone did that to me, I would fuck them up. Well, Saturn did that to you. So that's what I think it is. It's like it does that kind of shit. It does. But then you start to get each other and you start to have movie nights with each other. And you start to buy each other some little, like, yeah, I bought your snack. Saturn is going to buy me a snack. I think it is. And then by October, you guys are fucking bros. And then he dips.

Well, then it grades. It stops retroing. And it just grades. And it just grades. And then we're good. So don't worry, everybody. It's going to be fine. Well, and it's the summer solstice. It is. So it's fine. I feel good. I don't know if it's the summer solstice. It is. I have seen a bunch of TikToks about it that say it's like a real magical day. It has some good vibes to it. I feel the good vibes. I'm feeling it. So I'm just going to roll with it. That's so crazy because that means that our summer solstice show that we did. Whoa. Was that one year ago or two now? That must have been one, right? I don't know. Man, time is a real flat circle. Wait.

Yeah? I don't know. I'm not going to give you a definitive answer because I have no idea. I think it might have been because I think we did cults. That's really wild. It truly is. Yeah, that's insane. But you know what, everybody, we're all going to get through it.

Everybody's going to, we're all in this together. Nothing to it but to do. it. Nothing to it. And you guys are still sending in fucking amazing listener tales. Every day you're sending them in and we can't fucking tell you how much we appreciate it. Every time one goes boop right on the sky. I'm like, hell yeah. Like, I can't wait. I love it because you guys are fucking killing it. It's so, it's so refreshing to read these like crazy things from you, from you guys, from your lives, from you. And today we have decided to do like a themey kind of. episode because we have so many listener tales that are in the same kind of genre that we figured

why not. It's in the bad bit genre. There it is. I knew that was coming. It's a genre. There it is. There it is. I literally saw it on your face.

I saw you pause. I was like, I'm going to give you that moment. My eyes lit up. They did. They twinkled. Twinkle, twinkle, twinkle, my little eye. Well, today's listener tale, we decided to theme as meeting murderers. Yeah. And we would like to thank Deb Deb Deb for helping us gather all of these because Deb-Dub is doing a great job. She's wonderful. We love her. I love her so much. And we love you guys. So we're just full of love today. Let's just dive right into it on this summer solstice. About to dive in. Oh, I love the vintage. I haven't done that in a while. I had to fix that up a little. I feel like it was a little musty at the end. I think like actual dust came off of that. It was like.

Billy from hocus pocus when he like opens his mouth in the moths fly up. I want to watch that. That actually happened. It did. It did. All right. So this one is simply called listener story. You know what?

To the point. Doesn't bury the lead. I like it. Does not. I love it. All right. So several years ago, my husband and I were living in a house that needed some remodeling projects completed.

Fucking same. We also had a lot of excess junk that needed to be hauled off as projects were completed. That is the worst. Yep. I hate that. And then I hate when you have to leave the fucking dumpster. Oh, it makes me so angry. I remember when at my parents' house, they did that a couple of times and it always drove them fucking bonkers. Because you literally just have like, no matter how big it is, it looks massive in your driving. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It's just an eyesore. All right. But anyways, we called a local guy named Chad, who came over to give us an estimate on completing some of these projects and related hauling jobs. He was very nice and completed the first junk hauling job without incident. several months later we had some more items that needed to be hauled off and we called Chad again.

This time, he showed up disheveled and in a foul mood. Oh no, Chad. A different Chad. He was so different and angry this time that we were uncomfortable having him on our property. Oh, geez. So he must have been like real weird with it. While discussing the items being hauled off, it was noted that a lot of the haul consisted of loose items that had been placed in plastic trash bins. The plan was for Chad to haul off the, oh, I just kind of like put something together.

my mind and I'm like, I'm a little nervous about this. Oh, no. Like plastic trash beans. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know about it. And like, is Chad the murderer that you met? Oh, no. The plan was for Chad to haul the junk off in the bins and he agreed to return the bins to us once they were emptied. They were really nice, expensive trash bins, and I needed them back. I feel you. Yeah, nobody realizes how expensive trash bins are. Now, during the conversation, my husband and stepson were assisting Chad and loading junk onto his truck. They got onto the subject of how much junk we had accumulated in a short time, and Chad started talking about the junk piles he had accumulated at his own home. He said, my wife says, I have a junk problem.

He then turned around and looked at my husband and said, sounds to me like I have a wife problem. I love when like dudes will do that to each other. I feel like it's always a situation of like one dude is like, sounds like my wife sucks so much and I should kill her. And then the other guy is like, yeah. And his wife is like lurking somewhere. That's the thing. It's like, you know the good ones because the good ones are like,

okay, bye. Like, no. They get real nervous. I have nothing to say back to you at all. That's when you know you've trained them well. No, I'm totally kidding. So yeah, he has a wife problem. Then he continued to angrily throw junk onto the truck and drive off. I keep thinking you're going to say throw junk into the trunk every single time. Oh, why did I not? I keep thinking. I can't believe my brain didn't just do that by accident. My brain has done it every time you've said junk. Weird. And truck. I, I, I, I, get it. Yeah.

Trunk. In the. In the. COVID fog. Yeah. There have been like multiple times. Yeah. I've gone to say something and then just been like, I don't know.

And just abandoned it mid-dut. And I was like, COVID-brained the fog. That is a thing. I did not think that was a real thing. Yeah. COVID is weird. It is. Anyways, this is not about, it's about Chad.

It's not about the Rona. It's about Chad. Yeah. Weeks went by and Chad never returned my expensive trash bins. That's real fucking rude, Chad. A big no-no. I called him. meant I asked him to bring them back. He didn't. I called him again. He got pretty angry on the phone and said he

would bring them back and hung up on me. I'd be like, what the fuck are you mad about? Bring me my shit. Bring me my shit. At that point, I would, I think I'd get like nervous and be like, you know what, you can get with them. I don't want to see you again. Yeah. Not too long after that. I'm a poor timekeeper and I really can't tell you exactly how long, maybe a couple weeks later. That's like, I just always say like the other day. Always. Like, Chad came the other day. It could be an hour before that. That's something happened. And Ash is like, the other day. Yeah. And it could be like, and I'm like, and I'm like, like, Ash, that just happened. Or it could be like four years ago and I'm like the other day.

I'm like, you were 10 when that happened. That was not the other day. Technically it was. Yeah, it's another day. Yeah. I was at home with several of my stepkids and their friends and I received a phone call from one of the friends' parents. She was telling me to lock my doors because there was a manhunt underway in our area

for a local man named Chad Cottrell who had murdered his wife and two stepdaughters. It was none other than the Chad that was telling us about. his quote-unquote wife problem. What the fuck? It was a horrible crime. He murdered his wife and stepdaughters in their beds and tried to make it look... Oh. Make it up to Canada.

I thought it said tried to make it look like Canada. Wow, that would have been strange. Yeah. Tried to make it to Canada. You should look him up. Chad Cottrell from Belmore, Indiana. He was captured, thank goodness. And later convicted and put in prison.

It seriously gives me the creeps to know that a murderer was building up the anger to murder his family while standing in my backyard and scares me a little more to know that I confronted a killer over some trash bins. I love your weird little podcast. Thanks for keeping me entertained, ladies. You're the best. I'm not sure if I should say their name or not because they didn't say, so I'll leave it out. You're the best. You're the best. You know who you are. Yeah, you know. You're the best. Wow, that was a wild story. I know. I feel like you should sage your backyard. I know. Well, just, it's exactly like they said it, that it's weird to think that he was aggressively talking about his murder victim in your backyard.

Yeah. Like before it happened. Yeah. Because it's like, oh, I was watching that like bubble up. Right. Like he was like huffing and puffing about her too. Like it wasn't even like he just mentioned her like, oh, she makes great two sandwiches, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I hate that. That's a lot. I cannot. And his stepdaughters too. Like I'm like, oh, God, dude. I know.

What the fuck. I can't with this one. I really can't. So the next one is like, let's get away from Chad. This one is also called listener tale put a fa. Oh, I love a put-a-fah. This one says, for you ladies, love you bunches. And you know what?

I love you too. Let's go. Hello, my favorite weirdos. I found your podcast about a month ago and have been listening to backpods while keeping up with the current ones. I love you ladies and look forward to hearing your crazy and weird stories. So this might be a little long, but if I hear my tail on your podcast, you will probably hear me woot-wooting all the way from Colorado. Oh, did you? Oh, my God.

Did I, woo-woo? Did I just hear something? Was that Michelle? That was Michelle. I heard it. I don't know why I went owl with it. Because I don't think she'll be owling excited. I think she'll be like, who-woo-woo.

You never know. Maybe she would be. Who knows? I don't know. Get you a girl who can do both. Get you a girl that can do all of it. Woo-w-w-w-wout, shout. Oh, I thought you were going to say,

w-w-w-wut and woo-hoo. Exactly. I was going to say, woo-w-w-shout and who-hoo. Oh, shouldn't have interrupted. That's okay. I'd let you go. Thanks. COVID, you know? So my stories that make you interrupt as well. Well, no, I was just being kind.

You are. I was being kind to COVID. It's nice. So my story happened, my story of happened back in 1985 because I am way older than you. That is the year I was born. I was going to say, not Elena, but I was born that year. Something that was happening to this person. That year I was just coming in. True, true. My husband, then boyfriend, Grant and I moved to a small town in rural Colorado after we graduated from high school and lived in a house his mother had rented along with whoever needed a place to crash. Oh, he's disagree. I know. We had wranglers and raft guides crashing everywhere in this house. She worked at a small diner slash campground slash rafting company where she met a man named Joseph. He was staying in one of the cabins at the campground

and spent most of his time in the diner flirting with Grant's mom. I would say cute, but I know where this is going. But I'm scared. So soon he started coming to the house and soon he never left. He just kind of moved in. He was a nice enough guy, but everyone in the house was always in and out here and there, so we never really got a chance to know him too well. Fast forward about a month. Grant was a wrangler doing horseback trail rides, and I drove about two hours each day to my work in another town. We very seldom had a day off together, so one day he had taken the day off and had called in six so we could spend the day together. I don't really remember what we did that day, but we were on our way back to the house zooming down an old back road being typical teenagers

when we came upon a roadblock. Odd, we thought out here in the middle of practically nowhere. We slowed to an almost stop and creeped past a van sitting there that had its windows popped out, and you could see the van was full of people with automatic rifles, and they were all dressed in swat gear. Oh? The sheriff, which we kind of knew from the area, came back to the truck and asked where we were headed. We told him home and he said, I can't let you do that right now. And then the van full of armed

guys drove past the roadblock and headed on towards our house. I love that he was like, that's like such a movie. Like, I can't let you go home right now. I can't let you do that right now. And you're like, are you going to tell me why I can't go to my own house and why people are storming it? Can you, can you be a little less vague about this? Like, about my property? Like, please tell me why I cannot go to my home. Right? Like, and why an entire SWAT team is going to my home instead. Like, are my sweatsuits going to be all right? My sweatsuits. It's like what I live at at this point, you know?

Are my sweatpants going to be all right? I mean, I'm truly wondering. Can you bring them to me? Oh, side note, the morbid sweatpants? Nice. Nice. Oh, I love to hear. They're joggers.

And I have not worn joggers before. Different experience than like an actual sweat pant. But a good one? But a good one. Oh, I love that. I hope you guys feel the same way. Soft. well we were more than a little freaked out although we had no idea what was going on we couldn't see the house from where we were and there were other houses they could be going to okay so they're not technically like definitely going to your house right right but like it doesn't look good they're near your house because you know what the sheriff is not letting you to your house so they're probably going to your house we sat behind this roadblock for about an hour and then the sheriff got a call on his radio and told us you need to stay here then he and the deputy raced off and lest us sitting there in the middle of the road and

Oh, no. I love that they were just like, stay here. Like, stay. We're leaving. Stay. And then just left. Good boy. And you're like, do I, what? What the fuck we thought? We waited a few more minutes and Grant says, fuck this and started driving on down the road. I probably would have too. I'm not going to lie. That is such Elena energy. And then I don't know if like how you felt about this, but like I would have been sitting there like, Elena. No, we can't do that. Like I'm on Grant's level right now. I would have been like, fuck that. I would have been so stressed. So he says fuck this. They start driving down the road. As we round the corner, we see my mom's car stopped on the side of the road, by police and SWAT.

They were dragging Joseph out of the car. We stopped totally confused by what we were seeing. The sheriff told us to go up to the house and check on his mom. When we got up to the house, it was also swarmed with police going through all of our stuff. Grant's mom was freaked out because none of us knew what the hell had just happened. What the fuck did just happen? I was literally just going to say that. That evening, we got a visit from some close family friends who lived in the area and had met Joseph.

at the diner and found his story to be a little strange. So they had the area sheriff deputy run a check on him. Ooh, I love when people just like go with their gut. They go the extra mile. They found out that he was an escaped convict from Canada named Tommy Lee. We can't remember the last name. Like I said, we were old. Oh my God, I love it.

I love it. He had gone from Canada to Florida where we attacked, he attacked a man and left him for dead in an orange grove. He stole this man. wallet, car and everything in the car, and he started to use his identity. Oh my God. He was in a Canadian prison for murder and was wanted all across the country for horrible things he'd been doing. Yep, and Mr. Bad Guy had been living in our house, sleeping right downstairs from us for over a month. He could have killed us all in our sleep any time he wanted. I guess we were lucky. None of us

made him mad. So they transported him to the county jail. We ended the summer and moved back closer to where I worked since the Wrangler job for Grant was seasonal. He started working night shift at a factory that made tools, and we went on with our life for the next couple of months until one day we got a call from the county sheriff department. No. Tommy Lee had escaped, and until this day, they have never found him that we know of. Oh, good. So that's my tale.

Feel free to use my name and keep it weird, my beautiful ladies, but not so weird that you move to a royal area and let an escaped murderer move into your house and probably watch you sleeping, thinking about killing you and stealing your identity to use in the next state he ends up doing it in all over again. X-O-X-O-X-O. Oh my goodness, Michelle. Michelle, my bell. Oh, my God, I was going to do that too. That is wild. Damn. Oh, my God. Just thinking about sleeping. For real. How long for months you had been sleeping in this house. That's the thing. Who, like, I can't. That's like the most.

might say. That's, that is the most. That is a lot and a half. Damn. I feel like. Woo. All right. Well, I've got, I've got another one. And this one looks like it is specifically for you because they said, eat. Yes. I didn't even realize that until right now. Does Lister Tail, my winner of a stepdad got away with stabbing a woman to death for 25 years before he was finally caught. Yeet. Wow. And then it has like the emoji and like, like, like the emoji. Like the gritting the teeth. I love that one. I use that so much. You actually very much, too. I'm always gritting my teeth. My favorite, like, actual emoji is the upside-down smiley face. I like that one. You know what I mean?

I like the, like, my favorite, because obviously this is very important and you're all wondering. It is. My new favorite one is the one that's melting. Oh, yeah, because we love that one. He's actually helter sweltering. Yeah, there you go. I just use it a lot because I'm always like, ah. Because lately we felt like we're melting. I'm constantly. answering people being like, I'm sorry. It's just melting into a puddle. Yeah, Leida and I aren't very good at answering, like, um, anyone. If you guys have any tips, and I'm not even kidding you. I'm not even kidding you. I've been going through years. Like, this is a real problem, guys, and I need your help. You know, you know what it is. I'm reaching out to you. Here, I can give us both the solution.

You just have to answer a text message the second you get it. Because this is what I do. I read it. And I respond in my head. That's exactly what I do. I know. We do this also to each other. Yeah. People get like really mad at us though. Like people that were like actually like friends with and like close to. Yeah. So like we're sorry. Yeah. I'm working on it. I feel gross about it. It's who I am as a person and I'm not proud of it. Yeah. I feel like you like kind of made me that way as a person. Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't have a choice in this guys. I was always this way. So I don't know how to fix it. But if you guys have any tips on like how to just like make yourself answer people right away instead of in your head. Just gave you. I don't know. A listener is going to have some magical fucking tip. because they've given me tips on migraines. They've given me all kinds of tips. And they've been very helpful. So I feel like if you have any tips or if you can just tell me that you're also like that and make me feel better.

I feel like everybody is like that to a degree. It is just reminded me though of that TikTok that's like, don't put it down, put it away. Yeah, like that like tapy song. Yep. My whole house is like pristine because of that. I haven't put a single thing down. I have put it away. It's really, it's true. It'll be a better. It's a habit day. It will. All right. Anyways, not about

TikTok, not about us, not about that. It's about listener tales. Yeah. This one is from Veronica, and it's fine if I use her name. Fuck yeah, Veronica. It says, hello, my fellow and favorite weirdos, my name is Veronica, and I don't mind if you share my name. Thank you. I won't fan girl too hard, but just know that y'all are my adopted sister friends from the Far East side, and I cherish our makeup sisterhood of the traveling weirdos. I'm obsessed with that, and I'm so glad to have another sister. what's up? OMG. Same.

And they said, you guys remind me of my older sister and I, whose name is also Ashleigh, like how I saw my real government name,

but like that's actually not my name. Seriously, though, you guys are the tits and I love you. Sorry for the lack of putafah. I'm writing off my iPhone and I'm completely

pathetic when it comes to technology. You know what? That's all right. I respect that. Also, I'm not changing names because I believe this is the, oh, excuse me, because I believe the victim's story

needs to be told in full. I also apologize. apologize in advance. If I'm all over the place, it's been a while since I've talked about this crazy ass shit show, I like to call, my mom sure knows how to pick them. That's a great name. That is. That's also very relatable. Let me bring you back a tad to my earlier childhood. Back when I was about seven, my mom started dating the can of expired bean dip. That was my stepfather. Wow. Race. Sounds like a winner already. Am I right? You are right. Race. Race. I'd be like, no, but what's your real name? But what's happening? You're wondering if that was his real name. I know.

Anyways, he was the typical alcoholic ragging, emotional abusing, narcissistic tormentor that usually graces the homes of a broken woman. And sadly enough, he fit right into our little ball of a dysfunctional mess. I'm like feeling some type of one. Yeah. He didn't start out all that, I guess. They never do. But I just seen it as a wolf and a sheep's clothing, to be honest. I didn't trust much back then.

He had already been married a couple of times and had a daughter with another woman. her and I got along and still keep in touch. He started a job with a decent outlook and by the end of their relationship, oh. He started with a job. Yep, he started with a job and a decent outlook. And by the end of their relationship of four or five years, he left her with little to nothing. Two more children he helped create with her, one of which has severe autism. And he said he couldn't possibly be his because he could never create, and I quote, a broken kid.

Oh my God. Here's the thing about people with autism. They're way better than we are. I was just going to say broken. I think everything is actually all fixed. I think like we're the broken ones. It's in a superior realm is what it is. That makes me like incredibly angry because like I like I wanted to be like a special education teacher.

So like hearing shit like that. You create a human being. It should just be unconditional love. Yeah. The end. And you're the broken ones, sir. Like look at your life. Honestly.

I spent most of my COVID watching love on the spectrum, so like, fuck this guy. Yeah, you're really angry. Yeah. But good riddance, right? Yeah. We were better off without him anyhow. But here comes the kicker. He had left my mom around 2004, 2005, and we had gone on with our lives.

Fast forward to 2009, and I'm at my best friend's house when I hear her screaming at me to come in the room. And there he was. Ray Spurdeen, age 42 at the time, had been arrested for a 25-year-old cold case murder, all the way in Texas. Jesus. Wow. So I go on the search after they process info and come to find out when he was younger, him and his family used to live in a town.

Sorry, he used to live down in Houston. They used to live in a town called Houston. I heard you laughing and I was like, you've ever heard of it right now? Before coming back here to Illinois. During that time, he had friends in the apartment complex that was run by a 66-year-old by the name Lillian Nash. love the name, Lilian. I do too. So pretty. By all accounts, my piece of dumpster trash stepdad

and this lovely woman didn't get along because he always, he was always causing a scene when visiting his friends at the complex. One night, he snuck in through her apartment window and proceeded to stab this woman, this poor woman upwards of 20 times. There was no sign of a struggle. Oh my God. And there was money nearby and jewelry valuing in at around $80,000, none of which were touched. no real motive other than he just didn't like her. That is so terrifying. That really is. That poor woman.

Seriously. And her poor family. And it's one of those things like you live that long in some piece of shit like this takes you out. 66 years old, she's just trying to be like, hey, stop being a dick at the place that I own. Thank you. Sadly, this dry socket of a human went on to move back to Illinois four years later. Mary three times, produced three offspring and get incarcerated several times in that 25-year time frame. Oh my God.

They finally connected him through DNA. Hell yeah. He had left and ran it through the database and finally got a match. By the way, he's also a convicted sex offender. Was that on your fucked up individual bingo card? Cross it off if so. Oh my God. This guy can't get it.

Like, how do you get worse? I'm like, what is he not? He received life in prison, thank goodness. But I know my mom was pretty messed up for a while. I can't even imagine. You had kids with this man. Yeah. Having to come to the realization that she had been married to

and had kids with a man that was way worse than we ever could have fathomed. I don't rag on her about it, but no lie, I resented her for a while after, because I felt she would just let anyone into our lives without checking them out. Lillian Nash's so tough. I know. Lillian Nash's son, Raymond Nash, said about his mother that she was a true Southern Bell. I just knew that. Lillian, you just, Lillian Nash, she just knew it.

She is. She had grace and refined manners that her, oh, I don't know why I said moners. It was an old soul. It was. She had grace and refined manners that had her friends and family saying she could have passed for a character off gone with the wind. And that honestly just breaks me. She lived to be 66 and that's what she goes out on. Seriously.

That's literally what we were just saying. I'm glad he got life and not death. He needs to rod. I hope she can rest in peace now that the scum of the earth is behind bars. I hope this wasn't too long. And I hope you guys never stop what you do. I attached an article about the murder if you'll want to check it out. Anywho, remember.

never to stop the banter. It cuts the tension in some of the heavier cases. Screw people that rag on you for not pronouncing their city correctly. I roll, I roll, I roll. And never ever stop being the weirdos that we love. P.S. I will totally die figuratively if you guys. Well, rest in peace. Because here it is, baby. Keep it weird guys. Just not this weird. Oh my God. Oh, man. Veronica. Like, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. I know. For real. that must have been hell with him in your house. Yeah, knowing that he's capable of that and just like the things that he said about people and what he's done. I'm like, what the hell, dude? And just, you know he's a shitbag because he's being a shitbag to your family and like his own children and

his own wife. And then you find out that he has actually brutally murdered an older woman for, like, for no reason. For like, you to find that out later and be like, oh my God, we lived with him. Like, he had already done this. Right. Like, that man is a brutal murderer. And my mom married him and had children with him. And he was in my house. Like, whoa.

Like, that's psychologically, that must have been like a real mind fuck. Like, that's, like, something that you would probably go to therapy for. Like, if you were married to him, you know? Oh, my gosh. That's really tough. Ooh, all right. Veronica, leading us into the next one. Ooh.

This one is called. I told a murderer in action to have a nice day and handed him the knife. Oh, God. Are you going to need to explain this? Yeah, you got Lucy. So this says, hello, my friends. Insert here, hardcore fan-girling about how much I love and respect you to and the pod. Thank you.

All of the love. Me and all my fur babies, picks attached, obviously. Oh, I love when people do that. Thank you so much. Oh, my God. And she has goats. Yes. My dog has his own Instagram page at Alfie underscore hikes,

where you can see many photos of how cute. cute he is. They're all waving at you from New Hampshire. Oh my god. Also, did you see the picture of the goat sticking its tongue out? Because I'm alive. I'm alive. I love it. I love him. I love a saucy goat. Wait, this is us as goats, though. This goat is just chilling and this goat is wild and out. That is us. That is us is us are us. I love it. You know, it's a really good ghost song. Kiss the go-goat. You should listen to it. Okay. Is it go-go? Oh, I didn't even know that. Yeah, kiss the go-go. So this is my third time submitting this story because, well, I'm a perfectionist. In a previous listener tale, you guys said you wanted someone to write in about how a cashier saved the day and stopped a murder.

Well, he basically did the opposite of that. So let's hit it. Take two. Put a foot attached. Amazing. I'm already obsessed with you. Oh, and your dog is so cute. Oh, I love it.

It says, feel free to use my name. Her name is Emily. Emily has a snake also. Ooh. So this is called a grocery store murder tale. Let us jump right in. I attended college in Fredericksburg, Virginia, which is a relatively large city right off I-95 and an hour south of Washington, D.C. I had a part-time job at a grocery because I lived off campus and had rent to pay. I tried living in a dorm one semester, and fuck that.

In the summer of 2008, I saw the first of many news articles about the kidnapping of a Chinese food delivery man. Within a day or two, it was a media frenzy. It was a quickly developing in horrific story. A young man named Young Huay-Jean. He had been abducted while making deliveries for his family's restaurant. His car and body were discovered shortly after he was reported missing. He had been beaten and stabbed to death. Oh my gosh. The police were on top of their shit and tracked his credit cards and identified two suspects. A couple in their mid-30s, Germain Montgomery and Marcy White. The couple was arrested the next time they attempted to use the stolen credit card. that always blows my mind when people do that shit.

They steal, like, money or a credit card from someone. They brutally murder, and then they use it. Like, they should use their money. It's so fucked. And also, it's just like, really? And that's the other thing. I'm like, where... Really?

How far do you think you're going to get here? I guess it's good that they do that. It is. This is where my own story begins and how I helped facilitate this murder, sort of. I worked as front-end supervisor for a small grocery store called Bloom. For those of you who have never had a retail job, front end refers to the checkout and customer service area. While cleaning a register, my manager and two police officers approached me.

I was handed a paper with dates and times and instructed to locate and show the officers the CCTV footage. This was not part of my job description, but I happened to know how to work the software. The manager did not. Typical. Quick side story because it's a gem. I had learned how to work this software due to large quantities of high-priced meat missing from the shelf on multiple occasions. Amazing. I spent hours reviewing camera footage and suddenly there it was.

Two men in baggy ass clothes shoving meat down their pants. I'm talking raw, bloody, juicy, selifane-wrapped steaks, chicken legs, you name it, down their pants. This happened. I saw it with my own eyeballs. Back to the story. I need to know so much more. New Hampshire. Yep.

So back to the story. I shrugged and said, okay, and walked to the office. Fuck again. I said, okay. All right. The officers followed me in. Somehow my manager disappeared on the way over. They wanted to see the camera angle that recorded the cash registers for the time and dates given. I eventually find it and start playing through and ask, what are we looking for? A black guy, 30s, one of the officer responds. The first thing I notice is that I'm in the video, bagging for one of the cashiers. I felt it necessary to announce this. Hey, that's me, I told them. They just looked at me. That is serving ash energy. Like, I'm on TV. They just looked at me. We keep viewing the footage and eventually the other officer next to me says,

there, that's him. I flagged the spot and we watch. The man gets in line at the register I am bagging at, puts a few things on the belt, and waits patiently. We watch a very normal and typical grocery store interaction. I see myself reach for the items while smiling and chatting with the man. Once the items were bagged, I handed them to him, continued to smile and say the words, thank you, have a good night.

The dude then exits the store. The officers asked me to find the transaction receipt. Luckily, I also knew how to do this. You are being underpaid for everything you're doing. I just know it. Because I'd be like, I don't know how to do that. I'd be like, fuck off, that's on my job. The format of a receipt on the computer screen was weird until it was printed.

So as it was printing, I managed to make out the following items on the screen. Butcher knife, duct tape, and trash bags. The real front-end manager came in and took over for me by the end of my shift. CSI had taken over the back parking lot. also how wild is it too because i always say like i've said how many times like cashiers must see these items go through and be like who are you going to kill yeah like is this just because you're like making dinner and it's like you're making dinner you need to tape something up and dispose yeah it's like they're very innocuous items on their own but altogether what but you never would think that like you would never think that no ever like you're not like yeah this person is definitely is definitely like i'm about to do anything. The next day, I found out that the forensic team had found blood in our parking lot. Oh my gosh. Within the next month or two, I found out that the blood belonged to the man who was

killed. The man abducted while making a food delivery. And the guy in his mid-30s in the CCTV footage was his murderer. I looked at the manager blowing my mind and said, I told that guy to have a good night. As time went on, we learned the story. Zhang was alive, locked in his life. Locked in his own trunk in the back of our parking lot. Oh, no. The blood found was a result of Montgomery beating him before entering the store. He was murdered around the corner at another location. So that man was in the trunk when he was doing this. That's so, just to know that, oh my God, I can't imagine how you would feel. The knife I politely bagged and handed to Montgomery was declared the murder weapon. Like what the actual fuck. Here you go, sir, your murder kit, have a good night. Upon reading,

Researching the story, it took some serious digging because I'm old as fuck apparently. And learning all the details, it gives me the same chills as the ghosty in my house does sometimes. I'm going to copy and paste an excerpt from this extremely well-written article by Keith X, Epps for the freelance star. It says, quote, White ordered the food and watched as Zhang's car pulled into a lot behind the building. Montgomery, who had been hiding near the building's entrance, assaulted Zhang with a steel pipe and tossed his car. keys to White. White told police that Zhang was bleeding and pleading for help as Montgomery tied him up with a luggage cord and took his wallet. After putting Zhang in the trunk, the couple drove to Lee's Hill Shopping Center in Spots, Slovenia, sorry, I couldn't say that,

Spotsylvania, and pulled in behind the former Capital One building. There, Montgomery repeatedly beat Zhang with the pipe in an effort to stop him from yelling for help. From the trunk, Montgomery told Zhang they would let him go eventually if he was quiet. but Zhang kept yelling and struggling. One of the blows missed Zhang and broke out the rear window of the car. Montgomery then told White to drop him off at a nearby Bloom grocery store so he could buy plastic to cover the broken window. White parked in the rear of the store while Zhang continued yelling for help. He was still yelling when Montgomery returned. How did nobody hear him? I know. Like no one heard this at all? I feel like I don't believe that nobody heard this.

White then drove to the rear of Quest's diagnostics in the same shopping center and parked near a trash can. Montgomery went to the trunk and again threatened Zhang with the pipe. Zhang continued to cry for help and was beaten yet again. White said she did not know Montgomery had purchased a butcher knife in bloom until he asked her to hand it to him from the bag. Well, guess what? You also had the entire time that he was inside of that shopping center to call the police. Exactly. Or to get in the car and drop that guy off.

where you kidnapped him from. Anything. So I don't care that you're claiming you didn't know he bought that. You didn't stop what was already happening. No. After stating he's not going to be quiet, Montgomery stabbed Zhang in the chest. After Zhang was dead, the couple used the plastic and duct tape Montgomery had just purchased to cover the window.

So to recap my unknowing participation in a murder, I bagged and gave the soon-to-be murder weapon to the soon-to-be murder. At that exact same time that this was happening, the soon-to-be-re murder. the soon-to-be victim was right in our parking lot in his own trunk, literally fighting and screaming for his life. But you hadn't, like, how? No, you were doing your job. You were just doing. Your job is to bag people's groceries, hand them to them and say have a good one. Like, that's, you did your job. You did. But I understand that now it's like, whoa. Yeah. And I'm there smiling, handing over the knife that kills him. And this evil, evil man is looking back at me and smiling back. The feeling that gives me,

the feeling that gives me is not okay. That murder, by the way, was sentenced to three life terms. Good. His motivation to rob the delivery, man. Unreal. Here are a couple of links. Hopefully they work okay, but no promises. I had to use EBSCO.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who knows what that is. I don't know what that is. I don't at the same time. I'll Google it. So I epically failed at stopping a murder, and I know people are thinking, how could you not notice what you were bagging? No, we told you, man.

Well, I refer to the meat in the pants, men here, weird shit happens at grocery stores. And you know what? It's true. Yeah. This incident reminds me daily that you just never know who is around you. If you can bump into murderers at grocery stores, how many are we surrounded by? I'm grateful that Zhang and his family received justice and applaud the police department. That is my story. Also, I'm a tourist. What are your feelings on that? Thanks for reading. Thanks for being you. Keep it weird, but not so weird that. Ash can take it from here. That you're a tourist. Oh, no. No, I'm totally kidding. Franklin is a tourist. England is a tourist. Taurus are just like, they just know what's up and like they're just chilling.

Like, they'll fuck with you if they fuck with you. And if they don't like you, they are not going to fuck with you. One of my best friends in the world, Linz is a Taurus. Lins is a Taurus? She's a Taurus. She doesn't really give me Taurus vibes. I don't know. I love her. So, weird. So you know what my feelings about you being a Taurus are? Wonderful. They're great. I love you. My soon-to-be brother-in-law is a Taurus. So there you go. Yeah. Tourists is for life. And Franklin is a tourist. That's all I need to know. I love Franklin. I think that Tauruses get like sort of a bad rep, but I'm pretty sure I like all the Tauruses I know.

Well, there you go. Oh, is she a Taurus? I don't know. It's not about Taurus. It's about meeting murderers. And you know what? Thank you, Emily, because Emily signed it morbidly yours. And guess what?

You don't, like, it's not your fault. No, it's not, Emily. But that whole story is horrific and just like soul crushing because, oh, my God. Like, that poor guy. I know. his four family. Like he's working for his family's business, doing his job, just like you were. Like bringing you food. Yeah. Bringing you food that you ordered. And it's like, and he's like fighting for his life. And that, oh, it just killed me.

Being a delivery driver actually must be like very scary. It's like very dangerous. It is. I feel like it is a dangerous job because you never know where you're going. Like, um, I never finished that. Was it evil genius on Netflix? Oh yeah. I need to finish that. Yeah. Um, but that guy, it is. It, like, started off with, like, a pizza delivery driver. Yeah. I don't know if he ended up having anything to do with it or not. It always made me think about how, like, you really don't think about it because you,

we are not murderers. So we just order pizza or, like, Chinese food or something else. The person comes. We say, thank you. Like, here's, you know, a tip. Well, like, more often, more often than not when I get food delivered, I'm like, are you a murderer? Well, that's more my thing.

It's like, you're coming over here and giving me food, like, I'm a little nervous about it. Yeah. But like, I never think of the risk that they're taking, which is like, like, I think of like, you know, certain risks that they're taking. But I never think of it like they have no idea what they're walking into. Yeah. And that's really fucked up. Like that whole evil genius thing. They ordered that pizza like on purpose. Like they got him there like for that reason. Oh yeah. Like that's so scary. It is scary. Oh, Emily. All right. Well, we have one more. We're going to end it after this. Yeah. It's getting heavy in this room. It's getting heavy. All right. The last one is called listener tale. When you're getting ready for your high school soccer game and a murderer rings your doorbell. Oh, that'll change you. You know, when that happens. I don't.

It happened to all of us. I did not do soccer and I don't answer my door. So that'll never happen to you. So I don't know. So I'm not in this. No. But you speak up. I said, all right, while you were still talking, sorry, I wasn't trying to like cut you all.

You're like, all right, shut the fuck out. Listen, bitch. It's my time. Amazing. I want the coffee you're drinking. It's really delicious. It looks like it. see the caramel at the bottom. I got a shitty coffee today. A caramel. Caramel. So this one, I told you what

it's called. And it says, hey, Ash and Elena, love your podcast. My listener tail is attached in a pit a fah. Hell yeah. And they like spaced it out like that. Love it. Hope you read it. Eat or is it eat? Stay weird. Honestly, both because I'm always hungry. So, eat or is it yeat? Oh, I thought she said yeat or is it eat. I mean, I'm hungry. As you can see. What? You were so confused. I was like, is that other yeeta food? I was like, what? I'd said eat. That was great. Yum. They were like Y E E-E-E-T or Y-E-A-T. Oh, okay. It kind of was like eat. There you go. Eat is in it. Anyways. You know what, guys, I'm hungry. All right? You're always hungry. It's wild. All right. Supper-weird-Os. My name is Kate. You can use my name, Avi.

First of all, I have plowed through all of your listener tale episodes. They are my fame. I love that. Yay. You're getting a lot more of them now. I hope you're happy. I discovered your podcast during COVID when I needed some good laughs while being stuck at home with two young children, tying to teach them school and work a full-time job. F all of that. A goddess you are. We know all about that.

Thank gosh the kids are back in school now. After listening to about half of your listener tales episodes, I realized I had a tale of my own. I've been debating sending this in, but when I saw a friend from high school post on Facebook that 2021 marked the 25th anniversary, I realized. took that as a sign. So here it is. The story takes us back to the fall of 1997 in Athens, Georgia. Go dogs. Go dogs. I didn't say that. I don't know about the dogs. I don't either. I was 17 at the time and a senior in high school. I thought I was hot shit driving around my 1995 Toyota blasting ace of bass, Snoop Dog, and Warren G on my six-disc CD changer.

You thought you were hot shit, my friend. You definitely were. It was a Friday night in October and the, Oh, I want that. I want that so bad. I just felt it. Like a wash just came over me. I literally, I said the words Friday night in October and I was like, I wanted to like reach out and take it. Oh, give me it. It just wrapped me in a blanket. The weather was finally starting to get cool in the evenings. So we would often, oh, I want this so bad. I know. This is stressing me out because it's like. So far. It's not that far. But it's there. Yeah. With an arm's reach. We would often open the windows at my parents' house at nighttime. Oh my God, no. But you close them when you went to sleep, right? Correct. I feel like, no.

No. My dad and brother were out of town this particular weekend, so it was just my mom and me. Well, it's like a movie. When my dad would be out of town, I would often go to sleep in my parents' bedroom with my mom. That's freaking adorable. So that Friday night, my mom and I just had a girl's night. We would do that with ma. That's adorable. Whenever, like, Papa doesn't really go places that often. But when he would, we would hang out with Ma. That's true. Cute. We ordered takeout food and went to bed early. We had the window open in the bedroom. Oh, no. And we were awoken in the middle of the night to a loud explosion. in the neighborhood. Oh. Our neighborhood was basically a circle with one entrance and exit. Only the front part of the neighborhood had houses at the time, and the back part of the neighborhood was unfinished. The unfinished part of the neighborhood had a dirt road, which started right where my parents' house was.

We could tell the explosion came from the back of the neighborhood where the dirt road in the woods were. Shortly after, we heard lots of sirens and police cars and fire trucks hauling ass down our street to the dirt road. I'm nosy, of course, so I had my head plastered. to the screen window watching. Hell yeah, I would be too. Every, I mean, you just sort of fucking explosion. Yeah. That's not even nosy. That's just like, human. What's up? After some time, we saw a flatbed truck drive back. And when it came back, oh, it had a pickup truck on the back of it that had been

torched. Ooh, that's so creepy. What's happening? The truck was so badly burned. You couldn't even tell what make and model it was. I don't know if this is like a thing, but burned cars freak me the fuck out. No, I get that. Like something about it. I'm like immediately like, nope. Because it's never good. Nope. It's always bad. No, it's just like, I don't know, it makes me feel like some type of way.

Yeah, the vibes are always off. Yeah. When you see a burned out car. Like, for real. I was going to say for real and then I started to say seriously. So I was going to say furiously. Furiously. Yeah.

I kind of like that. I like it. Yeah. You could only see the burnt frame of the truck. We watched a little longer in police cars as police cars began to leave and all was quiet again. My mom and I were rattled and curious as to what happened, but managed to go back to sleep after closing your window and locking it. Thank you.

The next morning was Saturday. My mom was going out doing something early that morning, and I was home alone getting ready for my soccer game. I'm sure I was rocking out again to my awesome 90s CD collection of 69 boys, Tupac, Notorious, B-R-G, Ice Cube, TLC, Mariah Carey, Alonis. Wow, you really like, it just went to a completely different place. And NIN.

Nin. She didn't write that, but I had to say it. I'm bringing it back to get myself. hyped up when I heard the doorbell ring. Alonis hypes you up for a soccer game. Yeah. Huh. Yeah.

I feel like she just hypes me up after a breakup. You ought to know. Like, you're like, I'm going to take that fucking soccer ball back from you. That's my soccer ball. You ought to know. I'm going to take it back from you, Uncle Joey. Isn't it ironic that you suck at soccer, Susie? That's what I would be thinking.

Isn't it ironic that I'm better than you? Don't you think? Get hyped up. It's just like I'm like, you like, you like, Like, I can see why, like, Tupac and Biggie and Mariah would have you up. And then I was like, whoa, what? I get it. I love it.

I looked outside the window to see who it was, and it was an older lady and a younger guy. Around my age, maybe a little older. I opened the door, and the older lady introduced herself and said the younger guy was her grandson. I'd be like, what the fuck are you doing here? I'd be like, oh, I didn't mean to open my door. I don't do that. Sorry, bye. Yeah, literally.

She said they lived in the neighborhood that backed two hours. She said her grandson's truck had been stolen the previous day, and then it was set on fire last night in our neighborhood. And I would say, what the fuck do I have to do with that? I'd be like, that sounds like a shitty story. I don't want to be a part of it. Bye. She said they were going door to door to try to see if anybody in our neighborhood saw anything as they were trying to help figure out who stole it. I said, yeah, my mom and I were home last night and had the windows open, and we were awoken to that explosion.

I said we watched out the windows as all the policemen and fire trucks came, and that eventually a full flatbed truck drove by that had the burned out pickup truck on it. I said it was really badly burned that I couldn't even tell what make or make or model it was. No, during all this conversation, I was getting serious hebie-jeebies from the younger guy. Uh-oh. He didn't say one word the entire time his grandma was talking and he was just staring at me. It was a super creepy kind of stare too. He just stood there like a zombie continuing to stare at me. Like he was trying to figure out if he saw Um, no, yeah. If I saw more the night before.

Thank you. I think his grandma gave me her phone number and told me to call if I thought of anything else. And they continued on their way. Again, the guy said nothing. Was just walking to the next house with his grandma like a zombie. I was definitely creeped out. Like when you know you just sense that someone is not right, I got that feeling 100%. So the next week at school, we found out a girl in my grade had gone missing.

I won't say her name out of respect for the family. I grew up with this girl and I'd known her since middle school. We had different close circles of friends, but still knew each other and had a couple senior classes together. She was always a really nice person and was on the high school drill team and in the band. She had been missing for about eight days now. It seemed surreal at the time to know someone that could be missing like that. Several of her very close friends were in my AP biology class and I remember how worried they looked.

I overheard one of them talking one day about her and that her boyfriend's truck had been stolen over the weekend and it was set on fire. I was sitting at the next table when I heard this, so I turned around and told them that the boyfriend and his grandma had come by my house over the weekend asking neighbors if they saw anything. I told them that the grandma did all the talking and that the boyfriend just stared at me and didn't really say a word. The friends just sort of stared at me and basically said they did not like the boyfriend. Oh, not good. I told them I got a super uneasy feeling from him. The friends did not seem surprised and they said they were really, really, worried about their friend. Oh, I can't imagine going through that in high school. I know.

It almost seemed like they knew something bad had happened to her. That weekend, the girl's body was found. A young boy was out in the woods by his home and came across a partially decomposed body by a river. Oh, God, and he sounds like he's like a little boy. He called his dad and they called the police. The police were able to identify the girl from her clothing and jewelry and confirmed that it was the girl from our high school. And just like a senior, like, in high school. Oh, we all could not believe it. It was just so surreal that something this horrible could happen to somebody our age. The police were able to put the case together quickly, and I'm sure you guessed it.

It was the boyfriend who murdered her. I'd do it. The details came out that she had wanted to break up with him. She had driven her car to meet him. She met him at a parking lot and got in his pickup truck. He shot her in his pickup truck and killed her. He knew he had to hide the evidence, so he dumped her body by the river, and then drove his pickup truck to my neighborhood later.

that night and set it on fire. He was able to run through the woods back to his grandma's house. His story was that his pickup truck had been stolen and whoever stole it then set it on fire. The police were able to put the pieces together quickly and arrest him. When I realized it was him, the murderer, that came to my house with his grandma, I just couldn't believe it. I can't imagine that. All of these stories are making me sit here just be like, oh, like, that must be so weird.

Yeah. It all made sense why he just said. stood there like a zombie staring at me. He had just murdered someone. Oh, I couldn't believe I had been standing face to face with a murderer. I remember it so clearly to this day, and it still creeps me out. I still think of her often, and friends from high school will post about it on social media from time to time when it's her birthday or the anniversary of her death. It is so sad. She was just about to graduate high school and had her entire life ahead of her. I remember our senior year book did a special tribute to her that year. I pulled out a few newspaper articles, and I was able to

find that I was able to find online and I've included them. Thanks and keep it weird, but a normal kind of weird. Yes. Wow. Wow. What a tale to end on. Seriously. And just like, oh. And like, he had just murdered this girl for breaking up with him. Right. Because he's obviously a piece of shit and she was doing the right thing. He murders her in his truck. And then you and your mom Grandma. Well, no, you and your mom are just laying in bed one night having a girl's night. And you hear the explosion. And you didn't even realize.

Like, you didn't even know. But at the time, he's running away from that car to his grandma's house. And he has just dumped his girlfriend's body somewhere. Like, knowing that whole sequence of events after the fact would be so mind-fucking to me. Like, all of these stories, like, finding out afterwards, like the 25 years afterwards, knowing that your stepdad was like this fucking brutal murderer, like the grocery store thing, knowing that was happening like after the fact right as you were doing that.

Yeah. Like, what a mind fuck. I just can't get over it. And I feel like they all had just elements of just people doing like very day-to-day things. Like you were hanging out with your mom when this happened. Yeah. The other person was working their grocery store job.

Just normal shit. You were just going about your day and these people were going about theirs. And fuck that kid for fucking making his grandma walk her up. walk around an entire neighborhood figuring out about his truck. Yeah, a piece of shit. Fuck you. And he's sitting there staring at you like an asshole. Like, are you kidding me?

Yeah, like, do you are going to stare at me? And you know, that was totally also him going around that neighborhood and being like, who saw what? Mm-hmm. Like, it wasn't just like a cover story. Like, oh, someone stole my car. And it was like, I want to know who knows shit. And if somebody said they knew more, like what was going to happen?

Grandma was doing all the talking. Grandma better not have known. I feel like grandma didn't know She didn't know she's grandma I think she was just trying to find his Like who stole his truck Of course She was like I'm just like a pissed off grandma

But like then And to make like a liar out of your grandma You know nobody stole your truck Yeah you piece of shit Grandma wasn't lying But you know what I mean Oh man Wow guys that one was fucked up

You guys You guys got me Spinning right round Baby right round Like a record You are a six player disc CD CD player That's exactly what I

I am. Thank you for saying that. Are you a Walkman? I am a Walkman. Thank you. You are kind of a Walkman. I had many Walkmans in my day, so. I had a CD player. Yeah. Yeah. I had a CD player. I'm okay. I'm old enough to have one of those. I'm hip and vintage. I had a CD player. Speaking of hip. I also had, was it a hip clip. Yeah. Of course you did. But those were kind of stupid. They only played one song. Yeah. That was like not, it was like right out of my mailhouse. Yeah, you were probably a teenager when those happened. Yeah, I was like Walkman CD player. Mm-hmm. And then I lost track of everything until like, you know, streaming came. Yeah, I was just hip-clip. Oh, fucking iPod, nano. Nano.

Like the one where you, or no, was it? No, it must not have been the nano. I think it was the shuffle where you couldn't even fucking see what song was playing. Yeah, it wasn't even a screen. And I was such a little like entitled asshole when I was. got that, I was like, this is not the one that I wanted. Because I wanted the one where you could see the song. I was pissed.

I probably didn't say it, but like. But you felt it. But everybody knows if I don't like a gift when I open it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Those faces. Ash will let you know. But I don't mean to.

It's just all over her face. But it doesn't happen to you. You're a great gift giver. Thank you. Yeah. I try. Oh, Elena got me Harry-style fucking tickets for my birthday, by the way. I did.

Like, how did I not announce that sooner? I am going to shit my action. dick. I don't have one, but when I see Harry Styles, oh my God. Yeah, Ash is like a true hairyhead. All of a sudden. Yeah, like very, it was sudden, but it was right. The new album took me over. My body, my essence, my soul, my life. I have not been taken over like Ash. Elena refers to it as music that you would hear in a Prada store, which is not an insult. It's not an insult. It's not really wrong. But it's not a compliment either. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not a compliment either. It's not. Not a compliment. I like Harry Stiles's vibe.

Oh, God. Like him as a human, I'm like, I get it. I love it. I'm here for it. I support it. Poor Drew has to like go to this concert with me. But the music, I'm like, whew.

Music for a sushi restaurant. Can't do it. Can't do it. Should we just keep driving? There you go. You know? But that's not about Harry Styles. How many things was this episode not about guys?

A lot of things. People are going to be like, do you know what it was about? And I'm going to be like, no. No. I don't. With that being said, we do hope you keep listening. And we hope you. Keep it weird.

But that's really you meet a murderer and like, you know, that would suck. Don't do any of them. I'm not even going to go over all of them because it wasn't your fault. Like, you can't keep it as weird as you did. Yeah, you all met murderers, but it was murderers. You all met murderers. You all met murderers, but it wasn't your fault. Yeah.

And you had to deal with it afterwards. And I'm sorry for that. I'm giving you a big hug of all of you. It's not right. It's not right. Love you guys. We're going to make. it anyway

pack your bags okay