Morbid - Paris catacombs, haunted accordions and more with Josh Homme

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Join us for a chat with Queens of the Stone Age frontman Josh Homme! We talk paranormal experiences, his new project: Alive in the Catacombs and top it all off with a Paris Catacombs themed Would You Rather? Thanks so much to our new pal JHo for a solid hang🤘🏻Looking to watch Alive in the Catacombs? Find it by visiting https://qotsa.com/And don't forget to check out Josh's charity The Sweet Stuff Foundation: an organization that provides assistance to musicians and their families in times of need. Learn more or donate by visiting https://www.thesweetstufffoundation.org/  Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello there. Hello, everybody. We just want to jump on here before the episode starts to let you know it's a collab episode. And today we had the amazing, the hilarious, the wonderful, the talented, amazing Halloween costume creator and Widdler. Oh, Widdler. Wideler of the century. Cameron Esposito. Yeah.

And I'm sure Widdler is actually on the resume that she presents. But of course. Cameron's amazing. We had so much fun. We began this episode with a little like, just kind of fun Halloween trivia because this was our Halloween episode

for the Wonderie Plus subscribers. And we did that until, so the trivia goes until about 15 minutes, 15 and a half minutes in there. It's going to be a little later than that with this intro. But I just wanted to give you guys

the option if you don't feel like listening to trivia. It's totally up to you. It was pretty funny. I was going to say. You might not feel like it, but like, test it a little bit. And you know what? I just wanted to give you the option because we also covered the Hellfire Club and some hauntings

associated with that, some murders associated with that. It's pretty interesting, but that starts around the maybe 16 minute mark or 17. Just wanted to give you the option, just so you know. But it was a really fun episode, and you can also check Cameron out at some live dates. Hell yeah, brother. She's going to be in San Francisco, November 12. She's going to be in Seattle, November 20th, Vancouver on the 3rd of December. She's in Chicago on the 30 and the 31st of December.

So that would be a bunch of them. Honey. And for next year in March, Burlington, Vermont, and a little place called Boston, Massachusetts, which you better believe we will be there. Beantown, baby. Laugh Boston. We're going to be there. March 12th next year.

So go check out Cameron because Cameron's really funny. And we adore her a lot. Yay. So enjoy the episode, everybody. Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash and I'm Elena. And I'm Cameron. And this is morbid.

We have Cameron Estizito in the house. Cameron, thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, I'm in the Zoom house. I know, I was going to say, not really the house, but. Actually, that's not true. I'm in your house. Oh, kind of. Thanks for showing up. Where are you?

No, I mean, I just, I thought maybe, yeah, I thought that would. Which room? I'm in the basement. Oh, cool. To you, the babysitter. I'm sorry, it smells musty down there. Was that a big part of babysitting for y'all growing up? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

When a stranger calls, was that, I can't remember if we're, I think, I think you're both younger than me, but I can't remember how significantly. I'm 36. I'm 26. Okay, so yes. So, okay, so 36, yes, that's still within the range. 26, I probably like, what final destination?

I literally don't even know. What did you grow up with? She had like the reboot. I had the reboot of one miss, or not one missed call. When a stranger calls. Thank you. You had like the movie version.

We had like the urban legend that you tell people. Yeah. So scary. So scary. It used to freak me out wicked bad when I was babysitting and I used to babysit my uncle's kids and his house is also haunted on top. of that like on top of fearing that the call would be coming from inside the house it was a lot it was a lot of pressure for like 14 year old dash we're getting paid enough no no this is really bad this is really bad guys it was fun and there was also that urban legend that went along with that that was like about the babysitter and she calls the mom and it's like why that weird clown statue is freaking me out and she's like we don't have a clown statue yeah yeah yeah

Oh, I don't even know that one. What about the hook? It's scratching it. The car. They're making out of the car. The scratching. It's a hook. It's a hook.

It takes off the ribbon. Whoa. Oh, that's my favorite one. I love that one. The green ribbon. Have you ever seen the movie Urban Legend? Oh, you know what? That is my era.

No, I haven't because I'm scared of everything. So I, like, I haven't really, there's a lot of, actually this is this is like because I live in Vancouver right now because I'm shooting a TV show and the reason this is all going to make sense is like I'm scared of everything to a degree that's like kind of not okay like but I'm curious about it right so I read the summaries of things I think we talked about this last month was on the show but I like read the summaries about things or like I'll look up a still and then I'll try to match the moment but I just I can't have to be moving pictures I'm like

creating movies again for myself I like that's like the most I can do a good a good strategy. And it is funny. Yeah, it is funny now that, like, that's how I've always been, but then I grew up and somehow work in Hollywood. And so sometimes even, like, there's a, there's a friend of mine that I've had dinner with up here, Liz Houston, who's on the show, Yellow Jackets. Have you seen that show? Every week, it's like on showtime. It's like about the murderous group of soccer players or something. But like, what I'm saying is now it's at the point where sometimes I know people that are in these things, and I have to say to them, I've heard such great. stuff about your show and I think maybe are you guys cannibals or like what tell me about what you did today at work because I can't see any of it and I can't support you in this way but I've seen the poster and I love it great very cool post too yeah there's a bee I'm just going to say there's be on it there you go so nice you know like yeah yeah like I'll support the bees yeah like I'll support the bees yeah like that's as far as far as as I tried to watch five seconds of that show.

It just, it just starts with a woman is running in the forest. That's all that happens. Nope. That's all you need. You're like animal. I can't have it. Okay. That's, I don't even.

I mean, that's it. I can't hit. I want to watch that. You're like the 40th person to suggest that lately. Yeah. It's supposed to be amazing. Yeah. It's supposed to be amazing.

There's really good things. Yeah. So should we jump into some, we have some Halloween trivia for you today. Well, game show. Well, obviously, I'm already sweating. I laid the ground for, I can't even watch somebody running the forest. Exactly. So I think we really, we match this up perfectly. We can set out like kind of easy because they're not, they're not all scary.

Bring it. Bring it. Bring them. All right, let's do this. All right, Cam, do you know what was used before pumpkins to make jack-o-lanterns? It means. Wow, that's a great answer. Although a great answer, no. The Irish actually started the tradition of making jackal lanterns, and they used potatoes and turnips for jackal lanterns, but then they realized that pumpkins were a lot easier and larger, and they could carve those. Oh my God, wait. Did they carved them? Yeah. They would like put faces on them. It takes a lot more skill.

Oh, they had better knives than I thought they did. Sure did. Yeah. Or like maybe like really sharp like spoons that they just like carved with, you know. Oh. They had more patience than us. They also had like a lot of time. That's true. So much time. All the time.

Oh, you know what? I'm forgetting. You're right. And like skills. Yeah. Like knife skills. Like a different amount of like carving. They're like, because this is the era where they're like, I made you a toy.

It's a soldier. You know. It's altered this out of a tree branch. Yeah. I forgot all this. Do you know when I was when I was going through sad words? divorce times I took a spoon carving class and then I just would sit in my back there. This is real. I didn't even know that was real. Hearts. I would whittle hearts out of wood and

brought my fingers and be like, yeah, that feels right. Oh my God, that's so emo. You were like, love hurts. You went through an emo face. That's great. Very, very emo, yeah. You're blasting my chemical romance while spoon whittling. Time for a third question. What is the most commercially successful horror franchise? of all time. This is a tough one for you because you don't even like them. Oh, I would say saw too. I would also think saw.

Or Halloween. Or Halloween. Or I would even think like maybe like, um, nightmare on Elm Street. Hmm. You guys are going to be as shocked as I was. What is it? Godzilla. Godzilla.

What did you do? What did you do? Exactly. That doesn't even, that's a monster movie. I was going to say, but it's not a monster. movie. That's sci-fi. That's not, wait. Did you say- I did say horror franchise. That's actually incorrect.

That is sci-fi. Because, yeah, let's talk about this for a second. And I'm going to make a point, I'm going to make a case for why. So I don't know everything about this, but the monsters that are in the Godzilla universe, don't they come from the center of the earth? Like they come from like a different era that's in the center. Yeah, like in the sea. I've never seen Godzilla. Yeah, I think they come from the center of the earth.

of you. But I believe both of you... I think they come from the center of the earth. And then that's, that's, and they like merge through the oceans for that reason. Uh, I think for a monster movie to be horror, something has to happen to somebody. Am I wrong? Does that feel right? Like, it feels right to be bit by something or sewn together by a doctor. Yeah. Like, if you just come from the earth, I don't think that counts as horror. I don't really think so either. I wish I had read that question before I asked it. It's the biology of it all. I feel like if you just... No, it's nice to break it down. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. Because I would say that's sci-fi. Yeah, there needs to be like some wound involved for a horror movie, you know? Or like some...

Yeah, it needs to be like a Freddie Kruger. Kind of something bad happened. Yeah. And you became that. Yeah. I think we're right. I think it's... I'm curious if it's actually, if we took Godzilla's a bit for debate. Right. I know what it would actually the saw movies. You should Google it while I ask the next question. There's so many of them and they all do so well. Yeah. No, that is, that's a very good point.

When you said that, I was like, wait, I feel like my answer is wrong or the answer that I have in front of me. Like, I won't take credit for this. I'm simply not taking credit for it. However, I do have another question. And you might know this one. I didn't know this one. What item is banned in California on Halloween? Toilet paper.

Close. think vandalism eggs close do you want to try one more time what else can you do eggs how do you vandalize a home spray paint

oh what what am I talking about this is nothing to the holiday eggs we're like crow bars that's what you do on Halloween um

vandalism what can you use like you already said toilet paper yeah I said eggs Those are the great vandalism. Light vandalism. You were on track with toilet paper and sort of eggs.

Sort of eggs. Pudding. Chocolat pudding grown at a house. Wow. Great idea. Whoa. It's silly string. Oh.

What? I feel like I'm not mad at silly string. Like I'd be more mad at being toilet paper or egged. Well, maybe it's because of like environment. Oh, yeah. Growing up if we were like really messing with somebody. So constantly people's houses were toilet papered that were in my friend group. But the other things to do is fork somebody's lawn.

Do you know what that is? Fork somebody's lawn? No. Yeah. What is where you take? I mean, and this is by the way, like, this is not environmentally okay. But you take, you go, you take like a ton of plastic forks, stick them all into somebody's lawn. It is the most annoying thing to possibly remove our, are like thousands of, of, fuck for.

That's diabolical. It's also dedication, because you have to be in that person's lawn for like a hot second. Well, I'm from the suburbs, and so the things to do were destroy other people's homes in ways that they could recover from, but their parents hated you for it. Right, light vandalism. What else was around? What were we supposed to do, okay? Also, I looked it up, the conjuring series. Oh, that makes sense to me, too.

I was like, or it's like a ghost thing. Like I knew it was like one of those new. Yeah. I know. Paranormal activity kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's the other one I was going to say it was.

Yeah. I'm surprised it wasn't that. It probably was that for a while and then Conjuring came and swooped in there. There's a lot of conjuring movies. And they do well. There's also a lot of delicious candy in the world. Another segue. Guys, do you know what the most popular Halloween candy is in America?

Those are boys. No, I'm just saying. Yes. Yes. Is that even a thing? Do parents still check candy for razorblades? I am crazy. And I'm, I like, my kids, like, have barely had any Halloween candy because I'm like, yeah, yeah, we'll go through this. And I end up throwing most of them now because I'm just freaked out that people have, like, touched it. I feel like it's more like open seals that people are looking for. Got it. Okay. So it's less actual razor blades. Which was, which was for sure what I thought was in every racist peanut butter cup grid.

100% What's the most popular It's gonna be something like stupid It's gonna be like a three musketeers Or something dumb like that No, it's It's not chocolate I'll tell you that

What? I know right Outrage Starburst? No, that's nothing It's not that It's not that It's not that

Lickish No That'd be wild This is hard Moose candy corn No it's not that Um, got nothing. Imagine just getting loose candy corn.

Oh, how, like somebody just had like a bowl of candy corn. They just plop some in your trick or treat bag. I'd be like, uh, I prefer, is that like, is that a trick you're pulling? That's not a treat. I'm, I'm only a chocolate candy person. I know. I know. I don't even, I'm off the, I've got nothing.

Oh, I don't discriminate against candy. I love all candies. Is it like a micanike? No, but like I could see where your head's at. That's the only other candy I'm thinking of. What is it? Are you guys ready? Yeah.

It's Skittles. Oh. I thought that was going to be like a deeper cut. Skittles. This Skittles? People fucking love a skittles. Damn. I hate skittles.

Really? Yeah, what a useless thing. Oh, I love skittles. I just don't like the new green. I was just going to say I don't like the new green. Because it tastes like, yeah, apple. No, if I'm talking about a small thing that's covered in a shell, it's a peanut on the own. Oh.

It's actually, that's it. I like Eminemes. I don't like the peanut Eminem. And I do like peanuts. I think peanut Eminems are, it's like a regular Eminem is a trail. Yeah. I don't like, I don't really like regular. Like I'll eat them if they're there and I'm like, wow, I need chocolate.

But a peanut Eminem has that like little savory bit. A peanut Eminem feels healthy to me and I don't want that when I'm eating that. That's my own delusion too. By the are, these are like, this is, you know, this is like eating disorder remnants from a younger days where it's like a chap, a piece of candy that has a nut in it. Absolutely. I'm like, this is health food. Yeah, this is health and wellness. Health benefits.

It is heart healthy something. You can work on those behaviors and those thoughts, but they're still in there. They are. Oh, yeah. There's still a part of you that's like, you know what I'm spreading. And they just taste good. They're just good. is good.

Ne. We agree to discreet. All right. And this is just a random percentage question for you all. What percent of U.S. homes decorate their yards for Halloween or their homes? Criminally low. 20. Yeah.

Higher than that. 32. Higher than that. 40. Higher than that. Whoa. What? Yeah.

Fifty four. 50? Oh, so close with the 54. 55. 53? agree. 52. Whoa.

502. Wow. That's shocking. Yeah. I know. I was surprised by that too. That's like half of us. Damn.

Like not in my neck of the woods. That's like 50% of us. I'm the annoying neighbor with all my Halloween decorations out and nobody else in town is decorated. Yeah. That feels, can I ask you questions? Of course. Did Godzilla write the percentage there? Because that feels wrong.

Well. Maybe. It was a super secret identity person that put them together. But yeah, that was our Halloween trivia for you. And now, I think we did great. I think you both did so wonderful. You get the prize of recording together.

Whoa. Yay. I have a Halloween trivia. I have a Halloween trivia. Oh, what is it? It's, um, what was, what was I for more Halloweens than any other? I have that question too. I wonder if our answer is the same.

Do you both have one that you were, do you both have one for multiple Hallowments? Do you? I don't think you do. You change it up every year. I do change. I was something for multiple Halloween's though. Oh, you were?

Okay, let's all give our answers, but we should all guess, right? Okay. Yeah. All right. Can you give us any kind of hint, Cam? I don't know. How do I not, like, give it away?

I know. I'm just thinking that. Actually, I whittled something that was a part of this podcast. Oh, okay. Were you a witch? Uh-uh. Okay, I was thinking you like whittled your wand. A pirate.

Uh-uh. But I was a pirate. I was a pirate for one. I was thinking whittled been a pirate. Whittled something to be this character. Hmm. Anybody from Star Wars and you did a lightsaber? No, that's such a good.

No. No, that's such a good guess. Uh-uh. This is the thing I whittled, it really would, well, there'd be something attached to it, but it really would be made of wood in sort of like a traditional. In like a real, in the real world setting. Were you a beaver? What'd you say?

I said, were you a beaver? Or a woodshot. Multiple times. Many, many, many times. Okay, you want additional hints? Yeah, maybe one more. Stealing from the Rich. Sherwood Forest.

Oh, Robin Hood. Yeah. Robin Hood. The way that I almost just said Peter Pan. I confused Peter Pan and Robin Hood constantly. It's like a problem in my life. Oh, that's a good costume. That is a good costume.

I was Robin Hood for multiple hollowings. I riddled my own bows and arrows that like then I wore on my back in a quiver that I made out of like a belt or like a piece of. Hell yeah. That's rad. Belt on it. And it would all constantly turn upside down and dump the arrows out. know what I mean? Were you just like, some kids had like a full costume that they got from the

store and then there was me. Then there was like, I think yours was better from the sounds of it. Homemade is always better. It's true. Always. All right. What was yours, Elena? Mine. Or what's your hint? So you can try to guess. It's, this is really hard to. I know. Hints are hard without giving it away. You would think that I would know, too. It is something in, it's like a horror movie version of somebody in the medical field. Oh, Dr. Franks.

It was like a generic version. It was like a mad scientist. You were that a couple years? I was like three years of mad scientist. That's hilarious. I love that. Like huge hair and everything. Yeah, yeah, I love that.

It checks. Like that checks out. Yeah. And then I just like became a mad scientist. Yeah, here we are today. So there we go. Totally. Great.

All right. Mine's going to be hard. And you know the answer. So you can't guess. So, Cam, you're in this one alone. Okay. Help me come up with a hint, Elena. That doesn't give it away.

Cool. There's a Tim Burton film about this? Boom. There you go. An animated. You were a bride. I was a dead bride. Yes.

Nailed it. I was a dead bride for three years in a row. And I really want to, like, do a case study on that and find out why. Like, what does that say about? me as a child yeah you're a child yeah it was third grade or no I think it was second grade third grade and fourth grade she went for it yeah my parents had divorced like a long time ago so maybe I was just like brides are dead inside I think let's go it's so funny yeah you knew who else was a dead bride Lindsay Lumham in a little movie called moon girl sure was my favorite motion picture of all time

a cinematic masterpiece if you will well well I think now that we've done our fun trivia and talked about Halloween, let's talk about the Hellfire Club in England. All right. Because why not? At first I was going with like a theme of hotels and this kind of came out of a hotel and then turned into something totally different.

So here we are. And I feel like this kind of checks. It's kind of Halloweeny a little bit. So we're going to talk about the Hellfire caves that are part of the Hellfire Club and the Georgian Dragon Inn that is nearby. It's a little bit part of the spooky history. So the Hellfire Caves are in Buckingham Shire and are man-made caves. And we're going to get to that in a minute.

That already sounds made up. Sure does. Bukingham Shire. Right. Right. They just put together the two most British ones. Buckingham Shire. Sure.

The Queen Biscuit. That's nothing. That's nothing. Truly. I did not make this up. It's a real thing. I promise. But they date back to.

1748-ish. So that's ancient. Pretty old. Pretty old. And our series of tunnels and chambers used by the most notorious pagan-inspired club ever, the Hellfire Club. And this is not the Eddie Munson from Stranger Things version,

although I love that there's like a connection here as an Eddie Munson head. Cam, have you seen Stranger Things? I watched the first several seasons. I don't. I'm not caught up, but I'm only caught up from TikTok. I don't you're talking about. You know Eddie Monson.

I feel like I'm not alone for the first time ever. Yeah, you got to watch this season. But you haven't watched. But you haven't watched any of it. I watched the first episode. But you know what I mean? I'm running up that hill. You just do what I'm saying?

Oh, yeah, you are. I'm not like fully caught up, but like I'm cut up. But I'm running up that hill. I'm like looking up the hill. Yeah, you're like gazing up at the hill. Yeah. Well, either way, there is a little bit of a connection here, I guess, because Hellfire Clubs were supposed to be this place.

You could, like, totally be yourself. Even your darkest self. With no judgment, no consequences. It was a place of like-minded people, later men only, but it did begin with men and women. There was no gender rules in the beginning. And then all of a sudden they decided to go backwards and were like, let's take that away. Wow. Yeah, they were like, why are we going forward?

But it was a place where they could, you know, drink, gamble, get busy with their mistresses in a place that nobody could find them. And I suppose if you're saying, like, there's some kind of connection between the Hellfire Club in Stranger. things. A bunch of D&Eers getting together with like-minded individuals, no place of judgment. It kind of checks. It checks. I get why they named it that. But Hellfire clubs were clubs in early England known for a place of debauchery and Satanism. Like, that's what they were known as. Founded in 1719 by Philip Duke of Wharton. He got his friends together and was like, let's start a club. That was the beginning of it. They were like, want to start a club? And this, These clubs were very secretive.

Like, even now, people don't know what actually went on in there. I love that. They're just kind of taking bits and pieces of reports and things they found. But it was super secretive. And, like I said, in the beginning, they dared to include men and women in their membership, which helped fuel the idea that there must be Satanism in there. Hell, yeah. That's what I was like, when you're describing it, you're like, it's like gambling and drinking.

Satanism. I'm like, what is Satanism is why I realized? I don't know the answer when you just described. That sounds like Vegas. Thank you for saying that because there's a lot of things about this that I swear Vegas just pulled right from Hellfire Club. Vegas was inspired. Even their motto at one point becomes what happens underground stays underground,

which is just very vagusy. And it's terrifying. What happens in Vegas. So I think I just. right from here. It also just never does, though. What happens in Vegas, I hear about on a podcast a week later. And you know what, Hellfire Club? What stayed underground really did stay underground for the most of them. So they really, they took it to heart. So they really did it. And this club had like politicians in it, very elite and powerful people. Even the Earl of Sandwich was a member.

Right. John Montague. That guy. That guy. The sandwich guy. He was a member. And the whole premise of the clubs was to allow the members to be completely independent from traditional societal rules. Basically, do what you want. They drank. They had orgies. They mock the church. Just like all kinds of shit. They were sliving down there. And mocking the church was like the biggest thing that made them like Satanus. They were like, oh, you must be with the devil. But it was just them kind of just having fun. They're reviving. This is so, I mean, this is so. I think what's funny about it is like just we've always needed space.

Yeah. To not deal with societal constraints. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how I don't let. How grateful I am, many of these things can just be done in my own hotel room. Exactly. And that you don't need to meet in an underground cave.

We need. Yes. You close your hotel room door like what happens underground, stays underground. Leave me alone. I'm just debauching in here. They're like, we just have your suitcases. We were just bringing the room service. Sorry.

Now, according to burials and beyond, which is a really cool website, they had nun-themed sex parties. None-themed sex parties. Were there real nuns? I don't think so. I think these were just facetious nuns, but it was going on. And this was in the 17-19. Yeah. So people have always been kind of rad. People have always been cheeky. I like that. That's right.

You know what is like much creepier than this to me? Because this to me just actually feels like kind of silly. Maybe I'm, it feels silly, not spooky at all. But do you know what an anchorite or an anchorist is? Oh, I've heard of that. It's a, it's like a nun or like a priest who wanted to be like specifically devoted to like one church. and one, and like, and also to solo prayer. And that person would like pledge to a particular physical church. And then the church would build a little thing around the outside and wall them into it with like a little window. And that's where the person would live for the rest of their life. Why would you want that? That's walled to the outside of the church usually.

So you could visit if you were like. What? whatever. And so that church was then very blessed by that particular person and the town would be, you know, happy about them. Whatever. But anyway, that these, this would have existed at the same time. Yeah. This is what I'm thinking. Like, these motherfuckers are like, we're hard asses. We go in a cave below a thing. And have a non-themed sex party. It's like, no, this is fucking chill. You know who is who is. Who is not chill? Who is not chill at all is the fucking nun walled to the church. church above you, dog. That fucking none is that is nuts over there. She's living in a wall right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wall yourself into a church so I know it's real. Yeah. With like a little like mail chutes that you can know like for just like their daily bread. Like fuck. That's wild. That's the definition of spooky. And what's wild is these people are existing doing this. This thing, their main like meeting area when they end up going underground.

in these tunnels was right under a church. So that's happening above them. Exactly. And above them is this person just like, I'll talk to no one but God. I'm going to live in these walls. Holy shit. That, like, makes me feel like I'm walled up in a church. I know.

It's also like, Edgar Allan Paul walks by and is like, what if I did that to someone else? And I was like, I asked for this. Like, what's scarier? You know what I mean? Like, it's like so scary. That's all I think. I asked for this is scarier. I asked for this.

Absolutely. That wins. You're in a place of ah. I asked for this. Oh, holy shit. They're selling merch outside that says, I asked for this. They'll buy a t-shirt. They push them through the slots so the nun can sign.

That's so wild. Man, oh, man. Wow, that's scary. That's way scarier because they just came together to do these crazy parties. They discuss, and they also like to have like a finer moment where they would discuss literature. Yeah.

Totally. It was essentially the finer things club from the office, but with orgies. That's what it was. Absolutely. And in 1721, actually King George I heard about all this and all the rumors that were happening. And he actually outlawed it, like wouldn't allow it to happen. So then they were doing it like under like, you know, behind the king's back. Ooh.

But nobody gave a shit. They were like, okay. Sure, George. But in 1746, Sir Francis Dashwood decided to form another version of this club. He called it like a ton of shit, but it was a Hellfire club. That's what it essentially was. They did get called that eventually. But they started by calling themselves the dilettante.

And his club, which is like, woohoo. And his clubs did not allow women. I meant to join. Lame. Because why not just progress backwards at this point, you know? And it was supposed to be very highbrow. And this one was supposed to be, it was touted as a men's study group to talk about literature, ancient Greece, history.

They were just fancy. I'm so sure. But again, it was just a gentleman's club, is what they were calling it. And after attending some Hellfire Clubs himself, he decided he was really going to lean into their ideals. So this eventually got called the monks of the men. Medmanham, I believe it was, in the Order of the Knights of St. Francis. Ooh, I prefer the latter.

Yeah, which was then eventually called Hellfire Club. But Benjamin Franklin was a member. That also checks. Because he lived in England for a while. You know, that makes sense. No wonder he wanted to invent glasses. There you got. He wanted to see it.

He wanted to see what was going on. He was like, I feel like I'm missing a huge part of this. Let me put my specs on. It's dark in the caves. So Hellfire Club, again, all about pleasure. Very Hellraiser. Ah, yes. Which since you don't love horror movies, so...

Don't worry, I've read the summary. You're like, don't worry, I know. I don't want you to think I haven't read the summary. So you know. It is a confusing movie to read a summary of, though. I'll say it. I would think... I was going to say that one.

You just have it. Very complicated. Yeah. There's a lot of ideas in there. I don't think you should watch it, though, because, like, real scary. Yeah. Yeah, well, don't people get torn apart? Oh, yeah.

Actually. Yeah, that's like... I don't like to know about that. That happens like a couple times in the first one. Everybody's getting... Lots of body whore. Torn apart, yeah. Lots of that.

But Hellfire Club had such sites to show you, basically. That's what they were here to do. Just like Pinhead. Just like Pinhead. And they used to have the... So they had their nun sex parties. They would also have parties where you had to come in costume, kind of like, you know... Like an ABC party.

Like an eyes wide shut kind of thing. Like that kind of vibe. That movie. Eyes Wide Shut, where they have that, like, crazy ritual. Oh, I haven't seen that. Yeah. See, if you see it, you'll under it. It's like the same vibe.

If you know, you know. Yeah. Hick yick. So you would have to come in costume to these parties. There was wine. There was orgies. There was ancient ritualistic symbols. There were phallic symbols everywhere.

They were just all about it. I love that, like, since the dawn of time, people have been, like, drawing dicks on things. Yeah, they're just like, dicks. They're like, ha, ha. You all will be funny. I also love that. because of your age, I think you haven't seen eyes wide shut, but it, it like, would have come out when maybe, maybe we were like teens or something, because it's a Stanley Kubrick movie.

Yeah. And like, so it's actually like really long, slow, kind of boring. Yep. Bananas, but there's like some sex stuff in it. And I just, it was for sure something that young teens were like sneaking and wooing up. But like jokes on us because it is like a high art film and so, so, so, slow. It's like Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman and you're like, but they're a real couple at the time and all these things. And it's like just cut to those kids being like, when does anyone want to fast forward? Like this is so. Yeah. Oh my God. Like I haven't seen boobs yet. What's happening? Walking again.

No one's naked yet. And then it gets real fucked up and you're like, whoa. What have I done here? But it's also like tension. It's like not, it's not like. It's meant to be a cinematic experience. Exactly. Like highbrow. Like pausing porkies to put that in and it's like, no, this is not the right thing. I don't think I've ever been described as highbrow. So I'll sit that one out.

It's very highbrow. It's very, very highbrow. Very highbrow. They also had the largest collection of pornography in their underground library. That's a flux. The largest collection in England. Excuse me. I don't want to oversell it.

Not in the world. Yeah, not in the world. Maybe we don't know. But they had a couple of meeting places, but as time went on, they got a ton of members, because that sounds great. And they needed, I said we needed. We needed a bigger place. Was that 40? I was like, whoops.

My previous self, my previous life. In a past life. So they needed a bigger place for headquarters, for meeting places. So the first place that they got was an abandoned monastery, and it was in West Wycom. It was like super run down. in like big columns. And it was like super Gothic looking, which definitely worked with their vibe that they were trying to achieve.

And this is when the members started calling themselves nuns or monks. They would refer to themselves as nuns or monks, but they were not. And on the top of the door, Dashwood, so this whole place is like really run down in Gothic and like creepy. But he had this beautiful stained glass sign put above the door that said in Latin, and I'm not I'm not even going to try to pronounce it. Don't read the Latin. I'm not going to read the Latin.

It translates to do what thou wilt. Oh, I like that. Which is their motto. So he was like, come on in. Do whatever the fuck you want. I like that motto. Do what thou wilt. Yeah.

Why not? But then they switched to an even more spooky and metal, in my opinion, establishment. They went into legit caves underground. In 1748, Dashwood started using his money to have, caves around Wycombe and under the monastery and some churches expanded into a network of caverns and tunnels. These tunnels actually run under the river Styx. Oh. Which I didn't even realize. I totally forgot that's like an actual thing named after obviously the river sticks. Right. So it's got it's got good vibes down there. Yeah, totally. They like shouldn't,

they shouldn't sage or anything. No. And this is when they adopt. that motto of what goes underground, stays underground. You know, Vegas. So newspapers of this time period were all about this secret society. They would say that they were clearly performing rituals and sacrifices, although no evidence came forward of that. They were just saying it because they were mocking the church and doing things that were not great at the time.

But they were going against society and morality, so they had to be the devil. People were mad. You either are with us or you are against us. us and you are the devil. So devil. Now, near these caves is an inn, and it has a pub in it too, and it's called the Georgian Dragon. And it was built in 1720, still stands. Many members of the Hellfire Club were frequent visitors to the inns and the bar and the lodgings there. And there's a ghost that is part Georgian Dragon and part Hellfire Club Cave, kind of like a mismash. Oh.

And this ghost is a 16-year-old barmaid, and she used to work at the inn's pub in the 18th century. Her name was Suki, and her tail is actually pretty sad. Oh. So Suki was apparently beautiful. She was smart. She was savvy. She was like a cool chick. And she was very much sought after, especially by the people who traveled through the inn and got a drink at the pub.

She was not interested in anyone. She was like holding out. Suki was doing Suki. Yeah, she standards. She had standards. She was not going to give in to them. So she was rebuffing most of these men's affection. She was like, no, thank you.

She was holding out for a nobleman. She was like, I'm going to work my way up. I deserve better, okay? Smart gal. So she was waiting, and finally one day this kind and handsome young traveler comes in, and it's love at first sight. They immediately are smitten with each other. He keeps coming in.

They're having this, like, adorable flirtation. and people believed he was likely part of the Hellfire Club too because he was a nobleman. And that, like, a lot of them came through there. And again, he liked her too, but, like, things were happening. So this sounds like a happy tale. It's like, cool. Suki got what she wants.

Probably not. No, she's a tragic ghost. So three men who actually were lusting after Suki to an extreme degree. Like, we're not ready. They heard that she had fallen for someone else. toxic masculinity goes deep and rejection was not something that they were ready to take. They were not ready to just tuck their tails and walk out of the place. So they decided revenge was the only way to go about dealing with their sad feelings, which never ends well.

No. So they put together a message and they sent it to her at the end. And in the message, it said that it was from her beloved, like the man she was in love with. And he was asking her to meet him at the Hellfire Caves. And she was probably stoked. I would be stoked. I'd be like, all right. Because what happens underground stays underground. She's going to have a night. She probably shaved her legs. She shaved above the knee. It's crazy. Yeah. She was going to down. And he asked her to wear a white dress because he said, I want to run away and get married. I want to want to run away and mow you. So wear your white dress.

Uh-oh. And she's all excited. She's like, I'm going to dress like a bride. So she puts on her beautiful white dress. She goes down to the caves and she arrives there and she's just waiting for him, holding her lantern in those caves. Hours go by and she's waiting. And he's not showing up. And then suddenly those three assholes walk out and they're laughing hysterically at her, humiliating her.

She's pissed. So she was like, and she was also probably terrified. She's in a dark cave with these three. Yeah. I would not be psyched. So she's angry and she's yelling at them and being like, how dare you? They retaliated by all three of them throwing rocks at her. Like taunting her and throwing rocks at her.

Eventually she got hit in the head with a rock that cracked her skull, knocked her out. The three gentlemen run out of the cave. Lame. Taking her lantern with them. So she is now in complete and utter darkness just bleeding out on the ground. And somehow, by someone, no one knows who, someone must have come and brought her back to her room at the inn, and they must have wrapped her head in some kind of like towel of some sort. But no one called a doctor, no one called anyone, they just placed her in her bed, and she was left there bleeding.

She was found dead the next morning. What? Yeah. The fuck. I don't like it. I don't like it at all. I don't like it. Suki did not either, because Suki is pissed.

and she probably has a lot of unfinished business in both of these places. She's seen a ton now. Today, she has seen at this second in the in itself. And she's walking through the hallways. People say dressed in her white gown. She's like an angry bride. No. Yeah.

She brings a heavy draft of cold air and leaves one wherever she goes. No, I don't like to hear it. Oh, my dead bride reference was topical. It was. I'm just throwing up. I don't like it. You're like, oh, no, I'm just vomiting. Excuse me, I'm just driving. I'm actually just going to need a second.

I'm like, wait, wait, let me let you drive you. No, I don't like them. Well, and it's even worse because guests will see her. They'll wake up in their beds and see Suu Kyi sitting at the vanity mirror in their room or at the edge of their bed. And she's said to be just sad and not she doesn't have a threatening field to her. But the scary part is when people see her, she still has the cloth wrapped around her head that's soaked in blood. And she'll just turn around and stare at them and then vanish. I wish you guys could see Cam's face right now.

Cam is not well. I don't like ghosts. I don't like ghosts. I asked for this. So now that prank wasn't funny. That prank that they pulled on Suki turned into murder. So started as a prank ended in murder. But apparently the Hellfire Club was a bunch of pranksters.

Like, they were known to be a bunch of pranksters. I thought this was funny. It has nothing to do with ghosts, but I just thought it was funny. Mostly their pranks were at other people's expense. And there was a report that the Earl of Sammy there, John Montague. And Dashwood himself actually attended a church service in town one day, and they brought with them a tiny monkey and released it into the service. And the whole place thought it was actually the devil himself.

and they fled in terror. Obsessed. I was like, that's kind of funny. Especially if you've never, if you have no context for a monkey. Yeah. Like you're just like what the hell is. Maybe that not everybody has seen a monkey. Exactly.

That is the devil himself. Especially probably not in England. I also, where did they get a monkey? I also feel bad for the monkey. I know. It's not cool to like use unwilling animals in your pranks. Like that probably wasn't great. But that monkey, he was probably like, let's fuck shit up.

But that's funny. but also Benjamin Franklin, who I said was a member. He's said to also still be hanging down in those caves sometimes. He was good pals with Dashwood. He became part of the club while the caves were happening. And he apparently had a chamber in the cave named after him. It was his like special chamber. I don't like the idea of a chamber.

I don't like the idea of a Benjamin Franklin chamber. I don't mind Tim as a ghost. I don't know why. That doesn't bother me. I don't want a bride to be a ghost. Yeah. I don't want anyone to be sitting in. anywhere. No, I don't like that. Especially not on your bed when you wake up. I don't like the idea of

them turning around. Here's things I don't like. When people are walking down the hall, if it's a ghost, don't walk down the hall. Don't walk down the hall. But you can't see me, you walk right through me. Get out of here. Get out of here. Yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like that. No. But Benjamin Franklin, if he was just probably just like, I'm doing a lot of work. You know what I mean? Like, I don't really know anything about him except that he's like doing a lot of work. Yeah. And that's essentially what he's still doing. So you're correct. He's really just looking around his chamber. That's fine. You can do that. He doesn't bother anyone. But it's kind of funny because American tourists will be like, it's so weird. It looks like the guy on the money.

Like they're like, I saw this guy down there and he's like the guy on the money. And they're like, yeah, that's Benjamin Franklin. That's the guy himself. Like we know. We're like, yeah. But yeah, he's just down there apparently just searching for something. Nobody really knows what. Maybe he dropped. his glasses in there and he's looking forever. I don't like that. I don't like that he's searching for something. Because what is he searching for? Yeah. What do you do in there? Secret secrets.

Are no fun. Secret secrets. Hurt someone. There you go. That's what this is all about, is what I'm saying. I also don't like ghosts that scream. No. Just had to throw that out there.

We've run into a lot of stories where a ghost will just shriek and then disappear. No. No. No, I don't think they do that. I don't like that. They don't do that. No, they would never do that to me. I get overstimulated with a lot of sound, and that would, like, send me into a...

I'd have to go. You'd wall yourself up in a church. I would. Yeah. No, I don't like it goes. So we have Benjamin Franklin, who's not... He's just kind of, like, looking around. We have Suki, who's really angry, really sad, and just running around with a bleeding

head. Poor Suki. Now, the Georgian dragon itself was also the site of a robbery that turned into murder. Like right in the inn. And this man, who I could not find a name for, was murdered actually in the pub part of the inn. And now people can hear him walking with a heavy boot up and down the main staircase. That's like his haunt. And I found a case where someone was so upset one night about the constant slamming of what sounded like heavy feet just up and down,

that they yelled out for it to stop. And it stopped when they did that. But then it continued until the person left. Like kept going until they left. They said, this is my residual haunt, and you're not going to tell me what I can and can't do. I'm getting my steps in. Get off. This is the kind of thing where, like, people then deliberately stay at this place.

Yeah. Because they're different than me. Because they're different than me. Yeah, that's like us. Like, we go go stay there. Yeah. I want to go see these caves, but I'm scared to go in caves. Why don't we go do an in-person recording?

Yeah. Are you going to come? At the thing. At the thing? With ghost? Yeah. If I see a ghost, I'll die. I'll die.

Then go into the area. It'll be my ghost and my ghost will just be saying to people, I saw it. Imagine a ghost whispering in your ear. Oh my gosh. I saw a ghost. You might be the coolest fucking ghost of all time. You would be the scariest ghost. Imagine.

I feel like, you are a ghost. Oh, my God. I like that. You should put that in your back pocket. Holy shit. Keep that idea in your brain. Oh, man. That's good.

Oh. That just gave me the chills. I keep the, oh, I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like that at all. So we'll talk about one or, yeah, one or two more little ones. So we got Paul Whitehead. Do you know him? No, no, you don't.

No, but I had to go to a dermatologist because of him once. What? Well, he is another one that is haunting the cave in kind of the surrounding areas. Now, Paul Whitehead was an important part of the Hellfire Club. In the adjacent communities, I would say. He was the secretary and manager of the entire organization. Ooh. He knew everything about the club.

It's goings on. That meant he knew everything about very powerful and important people. Oh. So this guy was like someone you either had to kill to make sure your stuff wasn't leaked out or you had to be real nice to him. So he was a pretty powerful guy. But he went so far as to, obviously he knew a lot. This is how we know some shit was going down. there because he went so far as to burn all books and papers that had anything to do with the club

in like a huge bonfire. And there are reports that he said to those there during that this time, neither history nor my critics shall judge me by my works. No man shall pick over my words and divine the sublime. So he's like, I'm not going to give you shitheads anything. Yeah, that's like everybody deleting their Twitter history. Literally. It's like he just went off the grid. Immediately. But what's weird, six hours after he did this, he died in his bed. Ooh. Do you think he knew he was heading out?

I think he might have known and he was like, I can't leave all this shit. What in the world? What in the world? No such thing as a coincidence. And is he come back as a ghost with no paperwork? He does, actually. That's part of his haunt. How did you know?

So this, he's always just looking for like an administrative employee around. He's like, help. He's like, are there any of my work? People left. Someone help me. But it gets even weirder because he left in his will. He wanted to leave his body to science, which like, good on him. But he wanted his heart in particular to be left to Sir Francis Dashwood to take his heart and have it placed in an urn and put on display in the caves.

That's really funny. Why are you? Why? Yeah. That's cool. And Dashwood did it. Yeah, he did. He did it.

What do you mean by on display? Like, just put it in an urn. and he wanted that urn? Yeah. See through? I don't think so. I think it was, so the urn was on this point. That's what I'm, but don't worry, because apparently people would visit this earn forever and they would open it, take the heart out, and play ball with it.

Like play catch with it. That's not what I thought you were going to say. I thought they would hear a beating heart. I thought that, I thought it would be spooky, not inappropriate sports. Yeah. Just inappropriate sports. Spooky and appropriate sports. You're cursed.

You can't touch somebody's heart without consent. Apparently, they're figuratively or literally. Here's what I'll say about this. It's like growing up in the Catholic Church, none of this is like spookier than anything that's just normalized in that faith and religion. Truth. For instance, saints are just like chopped up. Yeah.

And then their body, different body parts are put. under different altars as like the reason that that particular church is rad. Like somebody's head is somewhere and you're like fingers somewhere else. You know, that's what like relics are. Yeah. And that is, it's all cute until you like grow up and think about it. Until you actually. I never knew that.

You're like, wait a minute. Wow. Yeah. Isn't that narly? I had no idea that that was a thing. I just love like, this church is rad. Because the saint's fingers under the altar. Totally.

Yeah, it's like a whole, it's a whole, and also, this is, I mean, because I was a theology student, like, lived in Rome for a little while. Like, this is, this was, like, this, all of the spooky stuff, like, I've been to the, there are sub catacombs beneath the Vatican that I've been to. Oh, wow. That's amazing. That's amazing. A certain number of people are allowed to go to every year because your breath degrades it. And there's, like, hermetically sealed doors. Oh, and then it's like, you have, like, 10 seconds to walk through them, like, the door shuts again.

Oh, my God. That's cool. By the way, also there is a pope who the lore is, because popes are not involved, and then they had to dig, it's John the 23rd, they had to like dig him up to move his body or whatever. And then when they opened the thing, he was not decayed. So then what they did was they put him in a glass case in the, in St. Peter's. He's like, you can see him. And I think that actually the church has said since then, like, no, he is involved. but the reason people were initially interested is because he was not embalmed and you could see his entire body.

Like I've seen his entire body. It looks like it's carved out of wood. It's horrifying. But my point is, nobody's ball with it, but they did put it in the last. So all of these, like, all of, I mean, also like ghosts aren't really a thing, but like angels. Jesus. Yeah. Actually, I'm going to strike that.

The ghost. One of the most famous, if not the most famous, if not the most famous ghosts of the time. He walks around. Was he it again? Is he the Holy Spirit? Because then there's another one. No, no, no. But, you know, he was killed.

He was crucified. And then he came back three days later. Then he walked around and he said to all of his friends, if you don't believe it's me, put your hand inside of my body where I've been stabbed by a, like a, what is this? A spear. Or do you want to touch, put your fingers inside of my hands where I was nailed to the crowd? My point is, like, no, that's nice.

Exactly. All of his friends were like, okay, Jesus. So my, you know. I trust you. And then we like painted pictures of that and like put it up everywhere. Yeah. This is so cute, but it's like horrified. That's, there's nothing more funny. Truly spooky. Well, and that's, I wonder if this whole thing, like, put my heart in an urn and put it on display is almost like a little like nudge at like the relics kind of thing.

like this is our holy place, quote unquote, that we're mocking religion down here. That's got to be something. There's got to be something there. And then the assholes just came and played ball with his heart. Yeah. Which like, whoa. Just that it's that more than one person had the idea to take the heart out and play catch is unfathomable to me. Unfathomable.

Seating had really limited resources. Inconceivable. is what it does it seems so splattery. Yeah. And then eventually it's going to get crusty and it's going to start crisping and falling apart. It crisps. Oh, I don't know what happens to dry out. But I feel like you probably do know what happens.

She does. So, yeah. Yeah, and it's going to dry out eventually. Like, it's going to take a while, but it's going to dry out. And then it's just going to start getting gnarly. Yeah, I don't love that. That thing's going to smell. Yeah, I bet.

Yeah. That's your hands are going to smell for a while. I think back then they were all just smelly anyways. That started a plague. You think they were so smelly that if one of them had touched and decaying or the other people would not have known? Probably not. You never know.

That's just a whole thing. Anyway, wow. Yeah. It's wild. And the heart was stolen. It's not even there anymore. 1829, it got stolen by some. They claim it's an Australian soldier, but I don't know if that was just being like,

They did it. But no basis. There's no actual basis. But the urn is still around. Just Sahn's heart. And people will see Paul now, Paul Whitehead, the heart man. They'll see him looking for his heart in the caves. Oh, that's sad.

And around the areas of the Georgian Dragon Inn. And they say they believe that he's also trying to, which I don't know if I believe this. He went to a lot of trouble to get rid of those secrets. People think he's trying to unveil, like finally reveal the secrets of the Hellfire Club. I don't think so he's looking for like papers to be like that he knows he burned. Yeah. Like maybe he left some in there and only he knows where it's hidden and now he's looking for it.

It's like when you put something in a spot and you're like, that's a special spot. I'm going to find that and then you spend the rest of eternity looking for it. Yeah. Well, look, and I have to go in a moment, but I do have to say that of those two things, a ghost looking for its own heart is so much scarier than a ghost who's just misplaced. I'm going to go with the looking for the heart. That's way more scary. I've like a W-2.

It was here before I died and if you can find it. I swear I'd remember where I put it. It's still alive and I owe back taxes. So if we could just facilitate this real quick. That'd be great. Get it quick. And you know what? The last thing I'll say before we have to end this because it's just hilarious.

It was also said that the sandwich was actually created down in the Hellfire Caves because the Earl of Sammy would ask people down there to bring him salted pieces of beef between bread. And then they would do their gambling and he would be eating it. So his friends would be like, hey, get me what, or I'll have the same as sandwich. That's what they would say. And they would all get them. And now you're eating a Hellfire sandwich. Awesome. Now that's how you hold a heart.

Hell yeah. Between two pieces of bread. Yes, a salted heart between two pieces of bread. Wow. Thank you, Elena. And thank you, Cam, for joining us today. We know you are so busy. So that was so cool of you to hang out with us today.

Yeah, it was so nice to be here. And since I currently live in a hotel, thanks so much for all of this hotel ghost material. You're welcome. I hope you don't run into Suki tonight. And let us know, is there anything that you want to plug? plug, plug, plug, plug, plug. Oh, you know what's really fun right now that I'm just enjoying is like, I just really make these

videos on my, look, I do a zillion things, but one thing I really think is fun right now is I make these, I make these videos on my Instagram. I think they're fun too. I love them so much. So I think people should just go watch those. They're really, they're just, they're just stupid little real. They're delightful. They make me happy.

Yeah. They make us happy too. They'll make you happy. Go follow Cam on Instagram, you people. Yeah, I feel like it's. It's like, I think they'll work for this audience. Yeah, I think so, too. Oh, absolutely.

We'll put it in the show notes so that you guys can just click you. Fine. Well, thank you guys so much for listening. We hope that you keep listening and we hope that you keep it weird. But not so weird that you're a ghost that haunts KM's hotel because she does not like that.