Morbid - Rainbow Family Murders

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

In the summer of 1980, nineteen-year-old Nancy Santomero, and two friends, twenty-six-year-old Vicki Durian and nineteen-year-old Liz Johndrow, left Durian’s parents’ home in Iowa to hitchhike to West Virginia to attend a gathering of the Rainbow Family. Five days later, Santomero and Durian’s bodies were discovered in the woods in West Virginia, shot to death just hours before being found, and Johndrow was nowhere to be seen.More than a decade after their bodies were discovered, police in West Virginia had identified several suspects and eventually charged thirty-four-year-old farmer Jacob Beard, who was convicted in 1993 and sentenced to life in prison. Upon appeal, however, it was revealed that the investigation into Beard was rife with dubious circumstantial evidence, police misconduct, and perjury, which led to a new trial and Beard was exonerated. Thank you to the lovely Dave White for research assistanceReferences: Associated Press. 1992. "W. Va drops Rainbow charges." Roanoke Ties and World-News, July 21: 6.—. 1992. "Arrests in women's deaths 'witch hunt' attorney says." The Daily Progress , April 25: 7.—. 2000. "Jury finds man innocent in Rainbow murder trial." The Roanoke Times, June 1: 21.Behrens, David. 2000. "Too many years without answers." Newsday, February 16: B6.Daily Press. 1980. "2 murdered women in 'Rainbow Family'." Daily Press, June 27: 44.Danville Reigister and Bee. 1993. "Jury deliberating in slayings case." Danville Register and Bee, June 4: 10.Darling, Lynn. 1980. The Rainbow People. July 7. Accessed August 7, 2023. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1980/07/07/the-rainbow-people/80aadbf3-ef61-4d43-9d62-766d4d01fc56/.Horn, Dan. 1997. "Franklin's boasting may unlock convict." The Cincinnati Post, April 18.Lovegrove, Richard. 1980. "Rainbow camp still going up despite slaying of women." The Roanoke Times, June 28: 1.—. 1980. "Two women slain near 'Rainbow' camp remain unidentified." The Roanoke Times, July 10: B-8.Possley, Maurice. 2012. Jacob Beard. July 30. Accessed August 8, 2023. https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=3963.State of West Virginia v. Jacob W. Beard. 1998. 24644 (Supreme Court of Appeals of West Virginia, July 15).State of West Virginia v. Jacob W. Beard. 1995. 22504 (Supreme Court of Appeals of West Virginia, January).The Gazette. 1983. "2 West Virginia men charged in death of Wellman woman." The Gazette, April 8: 14.—. 1992. "4 charged in Wellman woman's 1980 slaying." The Gazette, April 17: 10.United Press International. 1980. "Young woman who skipped tragic hitchhiking trip found." The Daily Progress, July 17: 7.Wallace, Terry. 1992. "Seething hostility led to killing of hitchhikers." The Daily Progress, April 20: 1.West Virginia Public Broadcasting. 2020. Two Women Murdered Traveling to Rainbow Gathering. June 25. Accessed August 8, 2023. https://wvpublic.org/june-25-1980-two-women-murdered-traveling-to-rainbow-gathering/.https://kmbllaw.com/dont-just-ask-to-suppress-the-involuntary-statement-and-the-evidence-thats-fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree-ask-for-a-full-kastigar-hearing/#:~:text=In%20other%20words%2C%20the%20Kastigar,compelled%20after%20an%20immunity%20order.https://www.upcounsel.com/legal-def-habeas-corpus#:~:text=The%20writ%20of%20habeas%20corpus%20serves%20as%20an%20important%20check,290%2D91%20(1969). Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid. It is a part two morbid. Ooh, part two of this fucked up, dude. Did you guys like part one of Carl Pan's Ram? People loved part one. Little Carl.

Little Carl. Just causing all kinds of havoc everywhere. That's his rap name, Lil Carl. Lil Carl. Oh, my God. No, Carl doesn't do anything that brings anyone any kind of joy. No, not at all. We do not have Carl on the track.

No, you do not. But yeah, everybody was really like, thank you so much for you guys for the compliments on the first episode. Everybody was like, oh, my God, I'm excited. So that makes me feel good. I love that. I feel like it's because people are just like genuinely in a better mood as of yesterday. Yeah, I don't know what it's, you know, we're in a celebratory mood. We can't quite put our finger on why.

I don't know what it is. It feels, the world feels lighter. Yesterday, I was just like, oh. All of a sudden it just felt, I felt like, yeah, I felt like I could breathe. Yeah. I feel like I could be myself. I just feel happy. I do too.

I feel happy. I feel gay. You feel gay? I feel proud of you for being gay. Thanks. I feel just, I don't know. I just feel, I don't know. I feel history bearing down.

I feel like I have like choices. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it feels that way. Yeah, it's gonna be good. Yeah. It feels like the people that we love and like support will have choices. Yeah, I love.

Yeah. It just feels that way. So that's fun. I don't know if you guys feel that way, but like we've just, all of a sudden, It's just something in the universe. So yeah. So hope everybody else feels that way. You know, everybody should be happy.

Everybody, you know, happiness is fun. If you're happy and you know, it clap your hands. So I think now that we've talked about how happy we are, let's bring everybody back down. Way, way down into the dooms. Let's bring it down into the depths. Let's bring you down with the sickness. Down with the sickness. System of a down.

Or as Ash calls it, system of a dawn. Let's listen to Nin, baby. Let's listen to Nin. If you don't know what we're talking about, it was a listener tales episode. I know what Nine Inch Nils is. I just didn't know that people said N-I-N when they were writing it. It's just funny. Nin.

I love that of all that I knew Tori Amos. Yeah, that's pretty. The gayest of all gays. I was going to say, I don't know what that tells about you, but it's something. That's what that says. It has something to do with it. I don't think we. have any other, this is a technically quote unquote a mini episode, I guess. Yeah, the ones we don't really

do anymore. So we don't really have a whole lot of business, I don't think. I don't think so. Yeah, I think just general like happiness. That's really all. Yeah, just such happy. Just on feeling good. Burn out. So on to Carl. Yeah, let's talk about Carl. Okay. So when we last left Carl, Carl, what was he doing? He was on a train, I feel. No. No? No. Oh, he had killed someone, I feel. He had killed a few someone's. He was, you know, he was just on his way, on his yacht that he stole. Oh, yes, the yacht.

And he was just, you know, hiring sailors for the day. Carl was below deck. He was below deck Mediterranean. With Captain Lee. But he was just whining and dining them after working them all day. And then he was just killing them and raping them. Yeah, totally. Not in that order, the other order. Raping, killing.

Yes. Killing raping. Not that, honestly, it probably wouldn't matter to Carl to be quite honest, so I don't really know. But either way, he was doing this quite often. He did it with a few people. And people back on land were starting to be like, huh, where's all these sailors going? Why does he have a different crew every day? People are really starting to believe in sirens again. Yeah, they're all of a sudden like, this is a little conspicuous, a little bit. Because he's just literally like luring them out onto a shot, taking them out, murdering them, then coming back and

being like, I would like another sailor, please. So I think eventually they were like, but what happened to the last 12 where the other ones go. Yeah. So he was like, all right, I should probably stop what I'm doing right now. And he had to switch up his style a little bit because he wasn't, he was like, I'm not going to stop murdering. No way, Jose. That's something I'm not going to do. But he was like, I got to switch up the style.

So, you know, he found a way he could still do that. Okay. So what he did was he picked up two sailors. And he picked up these two sailors that he wanted to kind of like work with him to commit crimes now. So now he's like, I want a buddy's buddy system. Yeah, duh. situation. And he was like, you know, these two sailors were kind of like, you know, they were like,

whatever. They were into it. They were like, yeah, we'll commit some petty crimes. We'll steal some shit. Why not? Because, you know, it's like the 1920s. What the fuck else are we going to do? Who gives a shit? Right. Like, honestly. And so they were like, all right, we'll do this. So they traveled down the coast, robbing every yacht they passed. Awesome. So they're straight up pirates. And that is one thing, exactly, because one thing that Carl was really into was cowboys and pirates. Oh. He grew up like being very interested in them and he wanted to be them. They were just, because they're outlaws. Yeah. And that's what he wanted to be. So he is a pirate now. He's being a pirate. He's living his dream. Dream big, I guess. Because dream a little bigger than Carl did. Dream a dream like better than Carlton. Like don't take the dream path that Carlton. Dream a better dream. Yeah, dream a way more wholesome dream than Carl did. Don't dream of being an actual pirate. No, no.

Because they just stole tons of shit everywhere they went. They were really successful at it. Oh, good. They got tons of money, tons of shit to sell. And, you know, it was with these two helpers. But he was sharing the stuff with him. Like, so he was giving them like pieces of the pie. Sure.

And they were like, oh, okay. So this must mean that like we're really like in cahoots here. Yeah. But his whole intention was like, sure, you could have pieces of the pie because I'm just going to end up killing you. Right. So it doesn't matter. like, sure, hang on to this shit while you're on my yacht. You're not going to, like, I'm just going to take it back from you when I dump you in the water.

Oh, that's sad. So it wasn't like an act of kindness or any kind of bond he had with them. He just knew that he was going to end up killing them. So in 1920, they hit bad weather coming into Atlantic City. Mm-hmm. And Carl is not a professional sailor. No, he's just a yacht stealer. I don't know what you heard, but he's not.

Word on the block is, no. He sure made it seem like he was. He had this big yacht and he's taking sailors out there all the time. So he's making it look like he is, but he's not. So he wasn't able to fare well in this bad weather. So the ship actually hit some rocks and sank. Oh. It sank along with all the shit they had stolen.

No, what happened to them, though? Well, the Titanic Lifeboat. They all three survived. Shoot. Weirdly enough. But the one thing that sank with the boat that was like the most devastating was that gun he had stolen from Taft. Oh, that is devastating.

He was pissed because he was like, I planned on using this gun for a long time to keep pinning him on murder, like murders on him. Yeah. Like connecting him to murder. So he'd have to hear about it every time I did it. And I was going to be like on his ass forever. That does kind of stuff. And it got cut short. You're like, that sucks, Carl.

I wish you got to pin more murders on. I'm mad at Taft for sending him to like a really horrible prison. It was a pretty bad idea. It really was like making it. But I don't support murder. No, definitely. We don't support murder her. murder her. Murder her. I said murder. I said, we don't support murder her. We both just had a little

moment. It's been a long week. I think everybody can agree. So like I said, all three men survived, which is nuts. The two men, like the two sailors, when they got to land, ran off immediately. Like, they were like, bye, because I think they probably knew, like, he had other plans for them. I don't think Carl was exactly the kind of guy that you would like. I think you'd believe maybe he was like this, like, tough guy. Yeah. Who was, like, dangerous, but maybe you had, like, some kind of rapport with him. But I don't think he was good enough to make you believe that he wasn't going to

fucking kill you. Oh, good. So I'm pretty sure these two were like, yeah, we should just dip. Well, I'm glad they were able to dip. So they ran away. And he was like, all right, well, I'm going to murder someone else. Okay. I got to do this.

So now he's lost his, and he's pissed because he's like, now I plan to murder these two people and I didn't get my fix. Right. So what the fuck? And my gun is gone. My gun is gone. My boat is gone. And all my shit is gone.

And all my shit is gone. So now he's lost his boat. So he's back to jumping on trains. Okay. See, I knew, you said, where's Carl? And I just, I was ahead of myself. You knew he would come back to the trains. All good things lead to trains.

Carl is the original box car child. He literally is. He loves it. He can't stop. Trains loves it. He loves it. So he jumped on. more trains and he's just traveling around. He's doing Carl things. He's just raping people,

robbing people left and right. Oh, good. All like any, you know, everywhere and anywhere. Okay. Because again, remember at the end, he's like, I have like raped and assaulted and murdered like thousands of people. Yeah. But of course now, he's murdered people now. So that's only recently started murdering people. So now he's like doing his thing robbing and raping and he's like, It's not enough. This isn't giving me what I need anymore. Exactly. So he's like, I need more. So there is a small gap in what he was doing for a few months between then and the next thing. But honestly, like, we can probably assume he was just robbing and raping and possibly murdering more. Yeah. Like, I don't think he was, like, painting landscapes. Just like knitting blankets. Like watching the great British bakeoff.

Volunteering at the older. Yeah, I don't think he, like, picked up a hobby. I don't think he was just doing more of the same. Started a podcast. Yeah, maybe. So he was 29 now. Oh, old. you know, not 312 like you probably thought he was. Seriously, with the life that Carl leads, I assumed that he was in his 80s. Honestly, like when I read 29 when I was reading about this time in his life, I was like 29. Wow. It's like he's not 425.

Right. Are you sure? Did you do the math right? This doesn't add up. So he ended up breaking into another mansion in New Haven like Taps. Because he did it once with Taft. So of course he's like, I can do it with a regular one. I can do whatever the fuck I want.

Unfortunately, the family was in there. when it happened and he held them hostage, the entire family. The staff of the mansion quietly alerted police while this was happening, like go staff. And he was arrested. Oh shit. He didn't do a good job with this one. He gave a fake name and only got six months in jail for like attempted robbery. Because it looked like his first brush with the law because he used a fake name. So he spent the time in jail raping everyone he could because he felt like it. And he said it really brought like, balance and control to his life. So when he left, he was ready to get a job and maybe murder some more people, like,

but do it smartly. With a job. Yeah. Like, he was like, I want a job. He's like, murder doesn't come with health insurance. Yeah, he was like, I'm definitely going to murder more people, but like, yeah. I'd like to start an, is it an IRA? I'd like a 401k.

Yes, yes. You know, we got a plan for the future. Retirement. Yeah, we don't want to just go willy-nilly. Never. So what he did was he joined the flying squadron of the Siemens Union. Yeah, same. Obviously. And he helped the black legs, which we talked about in part one, who are like the scabs,

they're like the, oh, right. There's scabs and then the black legs. Scabs will work for the lower wages and the black legs will just beat the shit out of the picketers. Yes. Yeah. So he started helping the black legs again when strikes happened within that union because he's really good at it. And he was learning to sail better while he was doing this.

So he's also getting, he's learning to sail while also. also getting to beat the shit out of people. That's like Carl's dream. It's Carl's version of when you love what you do, you don't work a day in your life. That's how he feels. That's exactly what that is. He just loves what he's doing. That is fooked.

And things escalated pretty quickly, which I'm sure you're like super shocked that Carl didn't like maintain a level of decorum while beating the shit out of picketers. It's very strange. Yeah. So people started using weapons as opposed to fists on the picket line. Good, good, good. Not good. And one day a gunfight broke out with Carl at, like, leading the pack.

Of course, police came and Carl decided to just fire on the police, too, because he was, he just didn't give shit. Why not? And the police were able to arrest everyone, including Carl. But they were all out on bail, because they were like, the police was working with the union at that time, and it was all weird and shady. Messy, messy. Then they lost sight of him.

Like, he was just nowhere. Once they put him out on bail, they started kind of pulling together. the pieces of like, wait a second, we think that Carl is also this guy and this guy, like, his aliases are starting to be pulled together. Oh, damn. So they tried to find him. Couldn't find him. He has to get out of here because obviously the heat is on now. Right. So he's got to get out of here fast. So he snuck on a ship that was headed for Portuguese Angola, which is on the west coast of Africa. Okay. So he's really getting out of here. I was going to say he's not just like going to Canada. He's not just skipping town. He's really leaving.

when he actually showed it so he like stayed down and like stowed away basically and then he got bored of that so he just walked up on the decks and was like hi everybody i stowed away what the fuck and so he reveals himself like hello i'm a stowaway tis i carl and they were like what the fuck and they were pissed obviously because stowaways are not good normally don't they just like throw them over board usually but then he was like look i'm a big dude and they were like you are quite big and he was like you are quite big and he was like Like, you are quite big. He was like, I can use my bigness and I can work. So why don't you just put me to work? And all you have to do is just let me off at the next stop. All right. You have to pay me.

So, of course, they're like, all right, we'll see if you can do it. They were down with the thickness. They were down with Carl's thickness. And so they were like, all right, that's cool. And so he worked. He did great. The crew loved him. No murder?

I think the pirate's life was for him. I think if he had stayed a pirate, he was. He would have done way better. What's the song? A pirate's life for me. But what did they say? Yo hohoi. Oh, yeah.

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. Yes. Yeah. But for him it's like yo ho ho and I'm going to murder someone. Yeah. Doesn't quite roll off the top. It doesn't. But Carl definitely would have been better as a pirate.

I think he would just should have sailed. The seven seas. He could have found his bro, Jack Sparrow, and all would be lovely. I think a lot of lives would have been saved, to be honest. So they get to their next destination. and the captain is literally like, please stay on my crew. Because you're so great. You're really good.

You're so big. Please stay on my crew. I am so down with your thickness. Do not leave me. And he was like, I'm sorry. Like, I can't. I need to get off. He's like, I want to get off here.

I want to go live a life of luxury where I just like float around and no one knows who I am. I just want to do that. I want to be on the seven seats. He's like, I don't form relationships. No. He was like, I don't want to be friends. And I think he also kind of felt like being on a. crew and like under someone was too much like prison.

Like it was too like regulated for him and he was like, oh, I don't like that. Okay. So in 1921, he decided he was going to hide out. This is 1921, by the way, like the same year. But he decides that he's going to hide out where they dropped him off, which is in Africa. Okay. In Angola. And he's going to hide out here because he's white and he can get away with whatever the hell

he wants there back then. Ugh. So he was like, I'm just this white guy. I can walk around and I can like just fuck around. And nobody knows who I am and no one's going to dare do anything to me. Right. Which, ugh. The ultimate white privilege.

Yeah, exactly. He could be whatever kind of fuckhead he wanted to be and trust me, he is. Oh, no. So I want to warn now because it's going to be coming up in a little while. It, I know, I said this before and I was like, it's going to get gnarly. And you were like, no, it already did. No. Narlier?

It didn't get gnarly. Okay. It's going to get gnarly. So just letting you know, there's some really violent things that happen in the next few things. So just be prepared. Okay. If you need a break, go take one. I'll be here when you get back to ruin your dreams.

I might not be. Yeah. Ash might not be, but I'll be here. I'll be here to keep just shoving this down your throat. So he got a job when he got there because, you know, Carl gets jobs. Yeah. That's one thing about Carl. He's not just going to walk around him.

You know, he's going to rob. He gets the work done. He's going to do that stuff. But he also is like, I need an honest day's work as well. I was going to say he makes an honest living. Which is strange to me. It is. It's strange that he constantly needs to get a job because he's really good at stealing and robbing.

Like, he probably could live off that if he really wanted to. Yeah. So it's a strange. His psychology is beyond. He doesn't like to overindulge. Yeah. It's like he just needs like that kind of normalcy, which is weird. I think he needs some kind of regulation, but like not too much.

Right. And when it becomes too. much, that's when he goes bonkers. So he gets a job. And it's with the Sinclair Oil Company there because it was an American oil company. He did well working there. He made money like he was doing, you know, doing okay. Being Carl. He used this money, however, for really fucked up shit. Okay. So this is where it gets real bad. Trigger warning. Did he buy people? Trigger warning, yes. So I'm not going to go into detail because I don't want to. You can go ahead and read his book or you can read Kill Em All by Ryan Green if you want gnarly detail.

I do not. So he was feeling weird. He was starting to feel weird about the fact that he wasn't attracted to women. It was starting to like all of a sudden be apparent to him. Okay. And he was like, you know what? Why don't I ever have the urge to like rape a woman? Like I just don't want to.

Oh, gee. What a horrible thing to lack. Okay. And it's like, so he was like, you know, what, I got to fix this. So he did something horrific to fix this. He bought an 11-year-old girl for the evening from her family. Oh, no. He did this for six dollars, six American dollars. They, with the promise that she was a virgin. I know this is horrific. Again, I'm not going into detail. And he wanted the virgin aspect because remember, he thinks women are unclean and diseased.

He's on an STD before. Only women are the ones who carry diseases, not men. And so he was like, I want to make sure I don't have to deal with that. So he apparently determined somehow, don't know how, don't care to know how, that he felt she was not clean and pure and was not a virgin. So he returned her to her family. And then he demanded that they hand over their eight-year-old as exchange. Ha! Now, he then apparently intended to rape her, but couldn't.

He just didn't, he tried, he like, according to him, he didn't, like, actively tried to, but he was about to. And then all of a sudden he just said, fuck, I don't want to touch girls. Okay. He was literally like, I can't do it, which it's like, that's a child. So you're not really testing your women theory. That's a fucking child.

Right, you're testing your child theory. You're testing your pedophilia theory, which you've already tested because you rape little boys. So you're gross, Carl. Like, don't try to make it like a gay thing. You're gross. Right. I don't feel bad for Carl ever.

Like you're a pedophile. That's what you are. That's what you should be concerned about. let's stop thinking about who you're attracted to, like, gender-wise. And let's really talk about age here. Like, that's the problem. And the fact that you're a murderer, sir. So he then apparently just brought this girl back to her family in the middle of the night

and just, like, threw her at them and was like, fuck. And then just, like, walked away. And they were like, what? Okay. Yeah. So he was infuriated at this point. He's infuriated that he couldn't do it, that he didn't want to. And so he starts drinking whiskey heavily, like, every day.

He's still like, I got to just get fucked up all the time now because I don't know what I'm going to do. Okay. So while he's been, so he's drinking whiskey, he's being waited on at the company like food hall where he's just like drunk and just like getting food and drink. And he's being waited on by the teenage son of one of his co-workers. Oh, no. Now he started grooming this teenager for a few nights. And then he ended it by raping the boy brutally. Oh.

Yeah. And this was only after a couple of days of just like grooming him. Well, this boy smartly and immediately reported this to Carl's boss. Right. And his boss fired him, obviously. Yeah. And when he did. But I say obviously, but it wasn't.

I know. It's not like this guy was like, what? Right. That's terrible. Because this boy was the son of a local. And this means this white guy boss didn't give a shit. The only reason he fired him is so that he wouldn't have to deal with the backlash. That's all it was.

Like keeping up appearances. I just want to be clear that that, like, fuck that guy too. So he fires him. Carl took it really well and just let, no, he didn't. He didn't take it really. I was like, no, he didn't. No, Carl immediately punched him in the face as soon as he fired him. And then he kept punching him and then beat him with a chair until he was in a coma. Oh. Yep. Oh, okay. So his boss fired him for rape. Not the way you deal with that. And he beat him. him into a coma. It's going to be an HR situation. Yeah. So now he's fucked because now he's done a lot of bad stuff and it's starting to get around. In a matter of like one day. Yeah. So now he's like,

I got to get back to America. Yeah. I'm apparently worn out my welcome here like real fast. Within like a month I feel. Yeah. And so he asked, he asked the American consulate. He's like, um, excuse me. No, he demanded the American consulate that they give him passage on a ship back to America. Uh-huh. And they were like, uh-huh. No, you're a fucking monster. Right.

And they were like, want to know how we know you're a monster? Because police in New Haven have already given me us your shit. And also, your boss, who has come out of the coma, has reported your ass and you're a fucking piece of shit. Yes. So they were like, everyone knows you're a piece of shit. You're not coming back. And he was like, oh.

You would think that they would extradate him and then put him in jail. Well, I think at that time, they were just like, whatever. We don't give shit. You're a piece of shit. Just go live in the woods or something. So they're just like, no, you can't leave, but we're not going to put you a jail here either. What? On a ship.

Okay. So now he just decided to literally camp outside the Sinclair oil company because he's pissed. Remember, he does not take slights. No. Well, no. And he is like, in his mind, he's like, anyone I can pick off and just like rape and kill for spite out here, I'm going to do it. Okay. Because now this is what I'm going to do.

And everybody in there knew he was camping out around there, and they were walking together in groups because of it. Oh, my God. These grown-ass men. I don't blame them. Carl is huge and scary. Then one morning, a 12-year-old boy who was running errands for the oil workers came across him in his little campsite. No. And he couldn't figure out what way the oil company was, so he asked him for directions.

And Carl pretended to help him. He was like, sure, I'll take you. So he brought him to an abandoned rock quarry And he raped him and killed him by repeatedly Slamming his head into a rock He wrote in his there's a quote from him that says Quote his brains were coming out of his ears when I left him And he will never be any debtor

He is still there Oh Yeah wow He loves saying that his brains were coming out of his ears Which I'm like I feel like you're I feel like you're exaggerating Oh we're embellishing But either way it's fucked up Now, before leaving town, he set the oil place on fire.

Oh, awesome. So he literally destroyed the livelihood of everyone who worked there. Perfect. Because he loves doing that. Now, again, revenge. That's like all he lives for. You slight him in the littlest way, and he's going to burn your whole fucking shit down. Carl, I feel like you just need a good therapist.

He needs something, man. He needs better help. He does. And so the next place he went was a place called. called Libido Bay, which was just like out of town. Okay. There, he hired six local men to take him, they're like hunters and like, they're like tour guides.

Yeah. To take him by canoe to a place where hunters often hunted these huge crocodiles. Okay. Now, these people, like people do it all the time. It would usually be like three hunters that would, that would hire these six guys, but it was just Carl this time. Yeah. Now, in Kill them all, it says, there's two days.

different stories about these murders that occur. Carl's version, and then in Killamall, they tell a little different of a version. Okay. Now, the one in Killemall, that book, says that they set up camp at one point up the river, because they were going for a long time. And in the dead of night, Carl woke up and told one of them he had to go to the bathroom. They were taking shifts guarding the campsite because Crocodone. So the one that took the guard shift followed him to the edge of the campsite while he peed.

and Carl raped and shot the guard and then did the same thing with the other five men. Oh, my God. And then he just left them all there. According to Carl, his own version is just as horrific. But he has added racial slurs to it. So that's fun because he's a literal dung pile. He says that he shot them all in the canoe, which I'm like, I don't believe that version. I more believe the other version, but okay.

Yeah, because why would you kill them all you're in a canoe in like crocodile infested waters. And then he said he dumped them overboard. And in his words, I do believe he like killed them at the campsite and then dumped them in the water. Yeah, because that's his MO. And in his words, minus the slurs, he said, quote, I was looking for crocodiles. I found them plenty. They were all hungry. So I fed them. It's like that's not what that is. Crocodiles don't know. Yeah. So then he took the canoe back to libido Bay and he just shows up by himself in the canoe and everyone's like what the fuck happened to the six guys that took you out man like there was six guys right where are they and he's like oh my god so weird they all got attacked by crocodiles not me though and everyone there was like

i don't even believe that for one second and then they're like why don't you have a scratch on you like they all got attacked and he was like don't know because crocodiles don't like car he was like i'm Carl, that's why I fought off all the crocodiles. He's like, I literally beat a crocodile myself. And honestly, he could. Like, I fully believe he could. But they were like, yeah, dude, you can't go out with six hired hunters and then come back with none of them and then expect people not to be like, excuse me, what? Why would he even go back? Because he just doesn't give a shit. I know. It's the scariest thing. There's doctors, like psychologists that said it looked like he wanted to be caught at every turn. And then he almost wanted to be caught so he could escape.

Because it's all just a game time. And I feel like he almost wanted, he was like this close all the time to wanting like structure. Yeah. But then he would get it and he fights against it. But then he's like wants it again. So it's like he almost does things to get the structure of prison. Yeah. It is weird.

Very weird. Well, unfortunately, even though everyone there knew that what he did, they all knew. Right. They're like, of course you did this. But there's no like quote unquote evidence. Well, they were all furious, but they couldn't do anything because racism. And if an American white man was massacred there, because they all wanted to fucking kill him. Right.

If an American white man was massacred there, they would be the ones to blame. Even though he was a fucking killer. Exactly. It's bullshit. So he got away because Carl slips through everything like a fucking cockroach. Right. Ew. So he stowed away on an English ship heading to Avonmouth.

Avonmouth? I'm sorry, England. I'm so sorry. Avonmouth? Is that what it is? Avonmouth? I don't know. Avonmouth. I'm from here just like you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, England. He got on an English ship and he went to England, and he went to England, a part of England. That's all that matters. It doesn't really matter because he doesn't do anything there, so don't worry about it. Okay. Then he got on a U.S. ship in England and went to the U.S. And he went all the way to New York. He stowed away. Oh, oh, oh. He's so good at that. So he ended up making his way to Salem, Massachusetts. Shut the fuck up. And he doesn't do cool things there. It's not like he's visiting Salem and like doing haunted happenings or, you know, doing grave etchings or something. Oh, he should have.

He should have. But instead, in July 1922, he murdered a 12-year-old boy there. Jesus. A 12-year-old boy named Henry McMahon. He did this by beating his head against a rock. He said, quote, I left him laying there with his brother. brains coming out of his ears. He had lured him while he was on his way to go to the grocery store to get groceries for his family. He even accompanied this boy to the store where his aunt

worked and spoke to his aunt. What the fuck? Bought a magazine and then lured George away to, or Henry away to brutalize him. It's like that's another like example of he wanted to get caught. It's like he did that on purpose. Well, and even more because he after slamming, so he, he, brutalized him, he raped him, and then he slammed his head into a rock several times, killed him, and then stuffed pages of the magazine down his throat. What the fuck? After he was dead. And it can only be surmised from that that he was letting everyone know that he was the one

who did it because he just bought that magazine from his aunt. Right. So he did that to be like, that was me. What? Like what? So he's done with that now. So off he went to New Orleans. Oh, goodness.

And when he was there, he robbed a hot. hospital. How do you rob a hospital? Yeah, he got into a supply room and he robbed a ton of cocaine, morphine, and opium. I love that cocaine was in the hospital at that point. Yeah, because it was something I know. That's so nuts. And he sold it around New Orleans, St. Louis and New York. He's like, this is this quality Coke from the hospital. Yeah, he's like from the hospital. This is medical grade. So he went and he sold it in New York too. So he went back to New York in 1923 and he started working as a watchman at Abico Will Company. This is where he met another victim for him to, at the very least, assault.

A boy of about 14 or 15 named George Willison. He said he wanted to teach him the fine art of sodomy. That's not artful. No, isn't. But then he said he already knew about it and was cool with it. So I didn't really have to do much. And you're like, okay. So a bit later, he got a job as a watchman in New Haven, Connecticut at the New Haven

Yacht Club. Oh, he went back to New Haven? Oh, yeah, he didn't give a shit. KK. He does not give a shit. He stole a boat, again, the very next night. And the boat's owner was the police commissioner of New Rochelle, New York. What the fuck?

Yeah. And when he stole the boat, he also stole his pistol. Oh, a... Back in action. And what was it? It was a 38 cult double action side break gun. One of those? To which I say, bully.

So he stole another yacht, a few... Because I think he just stole that. He stole all the shit. Then he just like, dumb. it somewhere. Yeah. He just wanted to steal like the shit on it. Um, so then a few weeks later in Providence, Rhode Island, he, he stole another yacht and he used that to go back to New York. Okay. There he picked, Carl's World Tour. It is. Well, once he was back in New York, he picked up his boy George again. At the 14 or 15, oh, same kid. Same kid. And he was like, hey, do you want to

like work with me and we can like rob a few places and it'll be like money for you and your family? And he was like, okay, sure. So he was like, yeah, let's do this. So Carl painted the boat, changed the name, changed all the papers and such. And he was like, we're going to sell this boat. Okay. And so he tried to do it. And a guy came to the yacht, but like to look at it.

Yeah. But Carl said immediately he got like a feeling about this guy. And it turned out that the guy tried to rob Carl. Oh, shit. Which my how the turntables have turned. Yes. If anybody watches the office. So he's like, holy shit.

So Carl ends up shooting. him dead, of course, because you're not going to get the jump on Carl. No. It's not going to happen. So, he ended up shooting him twice, throwing him in the water. And in his words, quote, after I killed him, I tied a big hunk of lead around him with a rope and threw him and the gun overboard. He's there yet, so far as I know. So he got rid of the gun that he had? Yeah, the gun that the guy drew on. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. So, and I love how he keeps saying, like, that person's still there. I'm like, do you know how decomposition works? I know, right? Do you know how, like, the world works? Still there. Do you know how biology works?

Like he's like, he's still there. Well, he probably doesn't, though, because he didn't get to go to school. No, he definitely doesn't. So they kept on sailing, robbing everywhere, like getting tons of money, kinds of stuff. Then George suddenly was like, I'm scared and I want to go back home. Yeah. Like, I don't like this because you like murdered guy. We're like stealing a ton of stuff.

Can I just go home? He's like, I didn't realize that's what this was going to be. This is not as cool as I thought it was going to be. And so he was, he lived in yonkers. And he was like, can I? please go home. Carl just brought him home. Weird. Just dropped him off. Let him go home. Well, and then the kid was like, cool, thank you. Went right to the police and told him everything. Yeah, like what? It's another example of like wanting to be caught. Yes.

So police caught him and arrested him. He was charged with sodomy, burglary, robbery, and I think he was also charged with trying to escape the jail as soon as he got there. Shocking. But he got a lawyer this time. What lawyer decided to represent Carl? A lawyer named DJ Cashin. That makes sense. Which is very much a lawyer name, I feel. And he gave for the payment, this lawyer, he was like, you can have my yacht if you get me off this. Wait, I can't believe I, like, I missed this moment.

DJ Cashin, we do best. Okay, thank you. There you go. There you go. So he's like, for payment to get me off of these charges, I'll give you the yacht. Yeah. And here's all the papers for it. It's my yacht.

Yeah. So he ended up getting a. him off somehow. Got him off all the charges. And when Cashin went to go with the yacht papers to register the new boat, the original owner came back from Providence and took the fucking boat back. So he basically did that pro bono. He did because he was like, this is my stolen boat, you fucker. This is mine. And Carl knew that. He was like, eventually that dude's going to come back for his boat. He's not going to be able to get it. It's not my fucking boat. So he's like, he just got off it. So Carl's out again. And now he's back to New Haven once more. Where he's not going to

he raped and killed another boy. He said in his own words, he, quote, tied his belt around his neck, and strangled him, picked him up when he was dead, and threw his body over behind some bushes. It's interesting to me that he, like, doesn't have a specific, like, like, choosing of how to kill someone. It's like he'll do anything. He'll just do any.

He loves smashing against a rock. He likes to strangle. It's all hands on. Yeah. He will shoot people, but it seems like he'll only shoot men. And he likes to physically overpower. boys. Yeah, which is a strange pathology. Now, right after this, he went back to New York and he robbed a post office. Okay. Well, he got caught in the act of that. That would happen. Good job. And got

five years in Sing Sing Prison. Oh. Now, he got another five years tacked on to that to serve in Danamora because of all the prison sentences he had gotten and escaped from and not served. Yeah. So they were like, we're going to start tacking these back onto your sentence. And In October 1923, he was transferred from Sing Sing to Clinton Correctional Facility in Danamora, New York, which is better known as Danamora Prison. Okay. It's known for being a scary-ass place, and there's scary inmates in there. It sounds familiar.

It's like the prison for incorrigibles or something. It's like people who they just can't fix. Is that the one where those two guys escaped from recently? It is. Okay, cool. He tried to make some kind of bomb-like device while he was there to burn it to the ground. he was caught. He also tried to kill another inmate there

while by hitting him on the head from behind with a 10-pound club. Yeah. The inmates survived to that. I don't know how. Because they must have been like bigger than Carl. But Carl got some extra time tacked on. He then tried to escape on July 25th, 1924,

but he was caught again trying to escape. And this was like a crazy escape. And he was put in isolation for a long time. Now during this escape attempt, he like really hurt himself. Like he fell like 30 feet. Oh. Yeah.

And so he had two broken ankles, a twisted back, and a ruptured testicle. Oh, ruptured testicle. Yes. Which like, was he trying to pick a lock with his testicle? I don't understand. Yeah. How do you rupture your testicle? Like, I'm sure falling from a great height, I'm sure that had somebody to do with it,

but I was like, did he use it like a rope to like repel down the wall? Ouch. I don't even have a testicle in that much sounded painful. It just seems. like a strange injury to get. I don't know. Yeah. Also a twisted back, oof. It's a bummer. And I know falling from a great height, you can rupture a testicle. I know that. It's just fun to joke about it. It's just funny to pretend that he used it to pick a lock. So August 7th, 1925, at the age of 33, he had surgery. He's only 33. He's only 33. He's not 625, like you all think. What? He had surgery. And during this surgery in

prison he had his testicle removed. You have two testicles, right? Yeah? Yes. Okay. I don't know. I love it. I knew I was just confirming.

That's a great, that's, I can't wait for people to start tweeting that. Can we put that on a shirt? You have two testicles, right? You have two testicles, right? Hashtag gay. So, he said, he tried to see he was like so I got the testicle removed and I was like hmm can the rest of it still work without this one testicle which like spoiler alert it can yeah Carl you're okay yeah plenty of people

just have one test it but he decided that he was going to test this out so he just started raping inmates again awesome so he got caught in the middle of raping an inmate and he got two years in segregation for it that's all two years so he was really going off the deep end at this point but according to him he was just really focused and it is like that he was just bribing. Is it like the, was the death penalty like a thing back then? Like, how did he not get that? It was.

Oh, he does. Don't worry. Okay. And, but this time, I mean, because again, he's just getting caught for weird shit. Right. At this point. Never murder. He's got so many aliases that they have not been able to tie all these back to him.

Right. So while he's in there, he had a lot of time on his hands. And he's starting to write things down and make plans. And he has a lot of terroristic kind of plans. He wants to like, you know, bomb. He thinks that would be a lot of fun. And then he also thought about starting a war between England and the United States. You know what?

I believe that he could have. I feel like he could. Like I almost made fun of that. And then I was like, if anybody's going to do it, it's Carl. It's Carl. Yeah. He also planned to poison an entire city's water supply with arsenic. Oh.

So that's a plan. And he said he would have done all this. I believe it. And he said, except that, quote, there were circumstances and luck that were again. to me. Yeah. And I honestly believe that. I do too. In 1928, he was released. Why? Because again, he only had to serve those two sentences. He got like a little bit tacked onto a sentence, but he served it out. He worked through that. Literally. In his words, as soon as he got out, quote, 18 days after release, I committed six to eight, six or eight burglaries, and two days later, I committed a murder in

Philadelphia. A week later, now that murder in Philadelphia was a little boy. Oh, another younger boy. A week later, I committed a burglary in Baltimore. Twelve days later, a burglary in Washington, D.C. The next day or two, I committed two more burglaries in Baltimore. Then I was arrested in Baltimore and brought back to Washington, D.C., where I was put in the D.C. Joe. Wow. So he really went for it. Yeah.

Rain of terror. Reign of Carl. And the last thing he was caught for was stealing from a popular dentist in the area. And they caught him coming out the window of this place with like a clock with like a big radio. Of Novocaine. Like, just like a radio. No, I know. Like, I'm like, what are you doing?

I like that that's what he stole from a dentist. It's like, that's what you got caught for? He didn't get caught for murdering the little boy. He got caught for stealing a radio from a dentist. Yeah, that's just dumb. Now, this was on August 10th, 1928 that he was arrested. Yeah. Doctors, again, agree and they look at this stuff as like, he definitely wanted to be caught.

Yeah. Like, there's just something there. Because he knows how to get away with murder. He does. So obviously, he knows how to get away with stealing a clock. And to go on that kind of rampage, you're looking to get caught. Or to draw a ton of. should do you. Right. Now, he was described by police at this time as, quote, a bear-like man with a limp, a heavy black mustache, and a gait hard eyes. A what? A-G-H-E-R-E-E-K-R-E-K-T-E. Okay. Or agate-t, I'm not really sure. I don't know what that word means. I don't either. I usually know what words mean. You do. So that's why I was waiting for you to explain. It's a g-a-t-te-e. Okay, I'll look it up while you talk. It might be like agit-tard or a g-g-tard. I think it's probably like something to do with like steely eye.

or like dangerous eyes, cold eyes, something like that. So it was in the D.C. jail that he ended up, or not in the D.C. jail, excuse me, in the next prison that he goes to, that he meets a guard named Henry Lesser. This guard is a 25-year-old prison guard. He's apparently a very, like, good man. And this would be a relationship, like the only relationship he would actually have at his life, like a friendship. Wow.

And he actually genuinely had a weird friendship with this man. Like, this is really weird going back to the agate. It's an ornamental stone consisting of a hard variety of something typically branded an appearance or a colored toy marble resembling a banded gemstone. Okay, so he had like stony eyes. Yeah, that makes sense. Still don't know if it's a gate or agate, but either way. So he met this prison guard, Henry Lesser, and immediately, like, Henry Lesser is kind of like talking to him like a real person and he's like, I don't know about this.

this is weird. And Lesser became very interested in Carl because he was like, what the fuck is your deal? Yeah. You're a weird dude. Same. And Carl told him when he asked like, what do you do? He was like, I reform people like you do. Oh. And he was like, no, you do not do it. He was like, that's how you got yourself here? Yeah, he was like, no, no. So when he first got to this place, he was put in the basement and placed on a snorting pole, which we talked about in part one. Okay. Basically, he was hoisted up with handcuffs on a rope where his toes were barely touching the ground. He was left there for 12 hours. And he was already in a lot of pain because he had broken bones and like fucked himself up from that escaped attempt. So he was already like fucked up. And so he was

in agony. He was like screaming the whole time, I guess. They even had a doctor checking in on him periodically through the torture just to make sure he didn't die. What the fuck? I'm surprised that he was screaming, by the way. That's the thing. So you know he was in pain. And I guess he was screaming threats at the guards and telling them what he would do to their children when he got out. Oh. And he was giving them details about the murders he had already committed on children. So he's on, now he's confessing. Right.

And so they were like, what the fuck? So they ended up clubbing him into unconsciousness. They were like, we don't want to hear this anymore. No. Some say he got a second. I saw some sources that said he got a second night doing this too because he threatened the doctor's assistant. Like he threatened to rape the doctor's assistant.

Jesus. They were like, you can stay for another 12 hours. Now they had this confession. And you would say, like, obviously it's under extreme torture and duress. Right. Are we really going to believe that? He had admitted to murdering boys in Philadelphia, New Haven, and Boston. Yeah.

So he had actually admitted these earlier to other detectives. He had said these same stories, but the detectives thought he was just trying to act like a tough guy. Okay. You know, criminals. Yeah, let's not look into murder. No, let's not do that, especially child murder. No way. Now, in the fall of the same year, 1928, he was caught trying to escape and he was tortured again.

And when he was brought back to his cell, Lesser gave him sympathy and, like, gave him, I think he gave him like a couple of extra like, like, some prison money, basically. Just because he was like, you know what, like, I see that you have not had a good life. And I feel like you're just like, whatever, which I'm like, he murdered people, particularly children. Let's not be nice to child murderers. He also rapes a lot of people. This is not a man that you want to be friends with. But letter. Okay.

So, like, Lesser didn't know the full extent. And he actually said, and I guess this actually, like, touched Carl. Like, genuinely, he was like, this person is, like, being nice to me. Okay. And so he actually told Lesser, quote, you are one of the few people I do not wish to harm. That's interesting. Big words. Because do you think about the guy that helped him in the first.

place, like that prison guy, and he like didn't give a fuck. But he didn't want to harm him either. Yeah. And he also like, he felt guilty. Exactly. So I think he looked at this like, wait, is this another person? Another chance. Yeah. So he started opening up to him now. Okay. He wants to tell him his story. And he was like, I think you can handle it. I want to tell you about it. Can you handle it? Can you handle it? And because at one point, like, the guard was like, what, you know, when are you going to tell me your story? Yeah. Like, you never tell me like real things about your life. And he was like, I don't know. Like, I'll tell you. Like, I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I'll tell you when I tell you. And he was like, well, I'm here when you want to tell it. And I think that was

when Carl was like, shit. Someone's here for me? What? Yeah. He was like, what? So at one point, he was like, can I have a penit, like a paper and pencil? And I'll write it down. Like, I'll write down my life story. So he was like, cool. So he ended up finding out that Carl had a secret love of philosophy. Oh. Like knew all like the like Kant and like, like all the different philosophers. He had like opinions about them. Wow. He felt like certain things. things about it was very strange so it's like where the hell did you pick that up like in your travels like okay socrates yeah it's just in there so then he asked him he was like i'm gonna i'm gonna write this whole thing down he was like someday we'll like publish this yeah my life story because it's

crazy so he ended up writing down some like 20 000 words wow which like let me tell you that's a lot of words that is so by the point by this point they had witnesses from salem come down while he was being held to identify him as the man who had killed Henry McMahon, the little boy. Right. Because that murder in Salem of Henry McMahon, the 12-year-old, that was everywhere. It was on, like, national news. Oh, wow. It was a big deal.

So he was given life without parole for that murder. And he was the one who he bought groceries with him before? Yeah, that was the one that he brought, yeah, that was the one that he bought the grocery, he saw the aunt and then, yeah. Okay. So he was eventually given life without parole, but it was November 11. 1928 at 36 years old, again, not 500. Not 800 million.

He was sentenced to life in prison at Leavenworth, and he was transferred there on January 30th, 1929. So he's back there. Back to Leavenworth, because he's been there. Because it's federal prison. So Lesser and Carl stayed in touch. Wow. They wrote letters to each other. They had like a genuine friendship.

Weird. And Carl was put on laundry room duty at Leavenworth, but he hated it. I was going to say that sounds like a bad idea. And there was a guard there that supervised the inmates in the laundry room, and his name was Robert Warnke. For some reason, Carl immediately hated this man. Huh? Like, hated him. And then this guy started fucking with Carl.

Carl's a cancer, so he's very sensitive to vibes. Well, there you go. So he got a vibe from this guy. And this guy was fucking with him. So, fuck, he hated this guy. Yeah. Hated him. Now, other inmates said he would just stare at him coldly like he wanted to kill him like every

second. That's really scary. And they all said that they were just waiting. for something bad to happen. They were like, shit was going to go down. Prison must be wild. I know. Well, then he really fucked himself because Carl started doing like extra laundry, I guess, to get extra like money to spend on like cigarettes and all that stuff. Yeah. And when he found out he was doing extra work for extra money, he sent him to solitary confinement for it. It's not fair. Like you did something wrong. So he really fucked himself over

because, again, you don't spite Carl. No. You just don't do it. Especially not when he's washing your whites. Exactly. So after. solitary, he came out. It was real mad. Yeah, I'd probably jacked. But he came out of, back into the laundry room duty, but he didn't want to work there anymore. Because I think he was like, I don't know if he's trying to separate himself from the problem. But he was like, I don't want to work with him anymore. And he, so he requested a work transfer twice, but Warren Key himself and the warden made sure he couldn't transfer. Oh, so he signed his own death. Exactly. Right. June 20th, 1929, Carl snuck up behind.

warned key in the laundry room and hit him over the head with a four-foot 10-pound copper bar that he had ripped out of the plumbing with his bare hands what the fuck and he had snuck it in just for this purpose so warn key died how do you sneak in a copper bar he just well he like ran in there and just started beating him he was beaten so badly that there was nothing left of his head yes there's a lot of dead air on this episode and it's just me with my mouth a gape so karl had had now brutally murdered a prison guard at a federal prison. Not good. So I think this is when it's like, you got it now.

Right. So he ended up writing in a letter to Lesser. Well, I got a change all right, but I had to kill my boss to get it. That makes either 21 or 22 that I have to my credit now. You can put that in your little storybook. And if I keep living much longer, I could have some more to put in my graveyard. Aye, aye, aye. And Lesser's like, well, damn.

He's like, I don't know how I feel about this friendship anymore. No, at this point, Lesser was like, I got to do something with these letters and with that whole thing, like confession that he wrote down like that journal basically. Yeah. He was like, I can't just sit on this shit. No. So he's sending it to like medical publications and like, you know, psychologists and publishers and all these. Like just someone look at this and tell me what the fuck is going on. He just wanted to understand why he was the way he was.

Because he was like, I understand he had a crazy upbringing and like shit happened to him. but like I've never seen someone so evil in my life. So this is when a well-known psychologist named Dr. Carl Menager became involved in the case. Another Carl. And he looked at these writings and he was like, I got to talk to Carl myself. Right. I need to see this in person. So when he met with him to discuss the confessions and his psychology, he was like chained up onto a, like to a table.

So as not to murder. So as not to rip him apart. and he actually told Carl, or told Pansram, because they're both Carl. Yes. He told Pansram that even though he was a vicious murderer, he was like, I don't feel like you would hurt me given the chance. I don't think you should test Carl, Carl. So this is when Carl threw himself forward, luckily was like shackled.

I'm surprised he couldn't break through the shackles. And said to him, quote, and this is by, this doctor says this was what was said, take these off of me for three minutes and I'll show you. I'll kill you right here before their eyes. Before they can even stop me. You won't even have time to be scared. Oh. And then he was like, then he just sat back and was like, all right, let me tell you everything

I've done. Let's conduct the interview. He was like, let's chat about my murders. The fuck? It's like, whoa. That's like not an Ed Kemper vibe. No. So April 15th, 1939, he went on trial for Warren Key's murder.

Right. He was immediately found guilty and sentenced to death by hanging. I believe that. Now, at one point he said, I just had to add this quote in here because it was hilarious. His quotes are wild. When he was talking about his like confessing to all these murders, he said that he used a silencer for a couple of murders on a gun, but they didn't work the way he wanted it to. And so he said if it had worked, he was like, silencers are bullshit.

If they worked, then I would have, quote, gone into the murder business on a wholesale scale. My intentions were good because I'm a man who goes around the world. doing people good. No, you're not, though. And it's like, no. Wholesale murder? Okay. This is not BJ's, Carl.

He also said, quote, it is unnatural that I should have absorbed these things and have become what I am today. A treacherous, degenerate, brutal human savage devoid of all decent feelings without conscience, morals, pity, sympathy, principle, or any single good trait. Why am I what I am?

I don't know. That's what he asked the doctor and the doctor was like, I don't know. He's like, we'll know in about 30 years. He's like, I'm not exactly sure. So he told this is what he wrote in a letter to Henry Lesser. Sure. Which I'm going to give you guys a website at the end of this, which is maintained and it has all the letters he wrote to Henry Lesser.

You can read them yourselves and it's fascinating. That must be really cool. I'll give you guys the website so you can go like do a real deep down there. And we'll put it in the show notes too. Yeah, for sure. So in one of them, he said, In my lifetime, I have murdered 21 human beings. I have committed thousands of burglaries, robberies, arsons, and last but not least,

I have committed sodomy on more than 1,000 male human beings. For all of these things, I am not the least bit sorry. I have no conscience, so that does not worry me. I don't believe in man, God, nor the devil. I hate the whole damned human race, including myself. It's like, wow. Yeah, that's like sad, but like not sad. Now, at one point, the Kansas delegation of the Society for the Abolishment of Capital Punishment

came to his aid. Yeah, did they? And they actually spoke to Carl and visited him in prison. And they wanted Herbert Hoover, which we just talked about on an episode about JFK assassination theories on crime countdown. Yeah, we did. They wanted Herbert Hoover to make his sentence life in prison, to commute it to life in prison instead of the death penalty because they weren't down for that.

Now, they actually started the paperwork for it, but he was pissed. Really? Carl did not want this. He didn't agree to it. He said, he said, quote, this you are doing without my consent and against my will. I choose to die here and now by being hung from the neck until I am dead. And he also told them, quote, the only thanks you and your kind will ever get from me for your efforts on my behalf is that I wish you all had one neck and that my hands were around it. Wow.

So he was like, don't fuck with my death sentence. I'm stoked for it. And he said he was actually going to send a letter to Herbert Hoover himself. He didn't end up doing it. He wrote the letter. And he showed, I think he showed Henry Lesser the letter, like wrote it to him. And in it he wrote, I believe I am within my constitutional rights when I refuse to accept a pardon or commutation from the death penalty to a sentence of life either in a prison

or an insane asylum. Wow. And he said, quote, I look forward to a seat in the electric chair or dance or play dance at the end of a rope like some folks do for their wedding night. So at this point, he wants to die. Like some, I want to dance from a, like a play dance at the end of a rope. What? Yeah. And he, so at this point, he really wants to die. And at this point, people are trying to help him not die, and that's stressing him out. And he doesn't want that help. He does not want to stay in prison. He's over prison. His whole life has been prison. So at this point, he just wants out. He got super

stressed. And so he attempted suicide, June 20th, 1930. If that date sounds familiar, it's because he did it on the anniversary of murdering Warnke. Wow. That's right from his birthday, too, I think. Yeah, I think he's, I think he definitely picked that date for sure. And he did this by cutting a gash on his leg and then he ate a bowl of rotten beans. Ew. What a way. What the, like, how do those two things correlate? I think the gash was, he was probably trying to hit his femoral artery. but I'm sure he didn't know where that was. So he just kind of gashed open his leg to hope he was going to bleed out. Do you think he was the bowl of rotten beans just to like, you know, get a stomachache?

Just to add it onto it. Well, in the rotten beans, like, rotten beans can actually like really fuck you up. Yeah? If they're really rotten, they can like really fuck you up. I didn't know that. And the night guard heard him like aggressively vomiting and got him medical attention and he didn't die. I'm sure he was pissed.

Sure, he was super psyched. So this is when Henry, lesser wrote Carl and was like, hey, I've had a lot of people look at your writings, and I think it's going to get published, and like, that's really cool. And I want to share the like, whatever we get from it. Yeah. Like you deserve part of it. It's your life story. This apparently like pissed Carl off, which is weird because he was like seemingly into this. I think it was because he was in a very bad place at this point. Yeah, probably. And he wrote back to him angrily telling him, you can keep all of the money from it. I don't want any of it. And then he told them there's nothing else you can do to help me.

And what was weird about this letter was he has always addressed him as like Henry or Lesser, like a friend basically. He addressed this one to H.P. Lesser, screw. And screw is a derogatory term for prison guards back in the day. I'm sure they might still be used. Oh. So like they call him screws. Yeah. And he had never referred to him as a screw. So he turned on him. Even from the beginning, which he did the exact same thing he did to Mark. Murphy. Right. It's insane. So September 5th, 1930, at around 6 a.m., Carl was led to the gallows. Because Gallos. When he, because Gallos. And when he got there, the executioner was like, have anything to say? And Carl did. What were his last words? He said, hurry it up, you Hoosier

bastard. I could have hung a dozen men while you're screwing around. And then he spat in the executioner's face and put his own head into the noose. Unreal. Carl's like an animal. He's a true blue animal. He's not even like a human. By 6.18 a.m. he was pronounced dead at 38 years old. He wasn't even 40. Wow.

No one claimed him. So he was buried in a Popper's grave. And his grave marker is a plank of wood with the number 31614, which is a prisoner number. Oh, that's sad. But like, I don't feel bad. But I do. And it's weird. It's weird.

And I don't like it. Well, in 1970, Henry Lesser did get the manuscript published finally. And it's called Killer, the Journal of a Murder. And there's a PDF of it on the website that I'm going to give you guys. Like, I'll put the website in the show notes for you. There was a film adaptation in 2012 of these manuscripts called Carl Pansram, the Spirit of Hatred and Vengeance. Yes, just that.

And the place where these are all hosted, like all the letters and everything, are on the Carl Pansram Papers. And it's a website hosted by the San Francisco. Diego State University. Oh. And all the letters from Lesser are on there. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff on there about Carl. Yeah. It's a very interesting website, so I'll post that for sure. Damn. But that is the crazy as, and just to quickly say, they have tried to debunk a lot of what he wrote and they can't. Wow. Yeah, like historians and investigators have tried to go back and be like, we're going to try to debunk this stuff because it sounds insane. And they like, they can't do

it. If his life story is just insane. Yeah. If anything, they find links to like corroborate a story. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I say that wrong. How do you really say that? Yeah. Cooperate. Corroborate. Corroborate. Yeah. People yell at me for that long. Caraborate. Corroborate. Yeah. So that's the story of Carl Pansram. That was a gross mouth noise. And that is disgust. I mean, crazy. What the fuck. It is disgusting. It's a truly disgusting story. So I hope everybody hung in there. Yeah. You know? We had to do it. That one was obviously very, very brutal, but I feel like I got through it because I was so intrigued about Carl's life.

That's the thing. His life, the fact that it's true from all accounts. Yeah. How open he is about it, how unapologetic he is about it. And then the psychology behind it, like the sodomy part of it, that he's like so focused on sodomy. It's like a very weird. It's just everything about it. Yeah, every single thing about it is just very odd.

Everything about it is over the top. Yeah. Yeah, it's a crazy story. It's very like psychology today. It really is. Psychology today. I don't know. Wow.

Okay, so yeah, if you want to follow us on Instagram, you can do so at Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on the Twitter. At a morbid podcast. Send us a Gmail. Morbidpodcast. At gmail.com. And we hope keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird.

But not to where you go to a world tour of murder and become a pirate, but not like yo-ho, yo-ho, yo-ho pirate's life for me, like a pirate, like I'm going to kill everybody on a boat and then like, uh, be Carl. Don't be Carl. Don't do it. Bye.