Morbid - Robert Chambers: The Preppy Killer

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

On the morning of August 26, 1986, a cyclist in New York’s Central Park discovered the body eighteen-year-old Jennifer Levin. Among other things, Levin had been strangled, there were superficial injuries on her face, and her shirt was pulled up. Later, the medical examiner reported that Jennifer had died only about an hour before she was discovered.It didn’t take long for investigators to find Levin’s assailant, after several patrons at a nearby bar reported seeing her with a man the night before. That man turned out to be nineteen-year-old Robert Chambers Jr., a privileged members of New York’s Upper East Side high society. At first, Chambers denied having anything to do with the murder, but soon changed his story and claimed Levin had died during consensual “rough sex” initiated by Levin herself.Nicknamed the “The Preppy Killer” by the press, a reference to his good looks and obvious privilege, Chambers’ trial became a media circus. Over the course of more than a year, people around the country watched as the defense tried—and with the help of the press, succeeded—to put the responsibility for Levin’s murder on the victim, emphasizing her sexual history and manner of dress, among other things.Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1994. "Central park killer is denied parole again." New York Times, December 23: B4.—. 1997. "Chambers says he is a 'political pawn'." New York Times, Janaury 10: 28.—. 2003. "In statement, Chambers says he regrets his actions." New York Times, February 14: B3.—. 1996. "Parole again denied in '86 killing in park." New York Times, December 17: B2.Freedman, Samuel. 1986. "Darkness beneath the glitter: life of suspect in park slaying." New York Times, August 28: 1.Fried, Joseph. 1986. "Chambers gives not guilty plea in park slaying." New York Times, September 23: B2.Hevesi, Dennis. 1988. "Grandfather faults tactics in park trial." New York Times, March 27: 32.Johnson, Kirk. 1988. "Chambers case turning on truth of confession." New York Times, Janaury 18: B3.—. 1988. "Chambers, with jury at impasse, admits 1st degree manslaughter." New York Times, March 26: 1.Nix, Crystal. 1986. "Slain woman found in park; suspect seized." New York Times, August 27: B1.Raab, Selwyn. 1986. "Lawyer weighs plea of insanity in park slaying." New York Times, August 30: 29.Rimer, Sara. 1986. "Slaying's notoriety touches young crowd on 'the circuit'." New York Times, August 29: 1.Stone, Michael. 1986. "East side story." New York Magazine, November 10.Sullivan, Ronald. 1988. "Chambers gets 5 to 15 years and offers apology in court." New York Times, April 16: 33.Taubman, Bryna. 1988. The Preppy Murder Trial. New York, NY: St. Martin's Press.Today Show. 2016. "Dubbed by the press as 'The Preppy Killer,' Robert Chambers pleaded guilty." Today Show, 01 01.Worth, Robert. 2003. "Robert Chambers to be freed after serving maximumu in 1986 killing." New York Times, February 13: B3.  Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, you weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. Can I call you out for a second? Yeah. In like a good way. It's like a silly thing. Anytime you do the hey weirdos, you outstretch your arms.

I do, I really? Every single time you hit record and you go, hey weirdos. And it's like you're like lifting them all. You're kind of like a cult leader. Oh, I'm on theme today. You are. We're talking about a cult today. I didn't know that.

I just watched you do it. And I've, like, thought about it before but not said anything. And I just had to say it. I kind of love that I do that. And I also love it. Yeah. You're a cult leader and you didn't know it. I'm a cult leader and I had no idea.

That's funny. Look at that. I go, that's funny. That is funny. Oh, ha, ha. So what's everybody watching on TV? Anybody watching good TV out there? Ooh.

Anybody? Are you? Yes. Okay, actually. I was watching the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. And, okay, I love the Housewives. And I know, I know the recipe. You get us super fucking hyped for an episode.

And then all the goddamn, all the GD drama happens in the last five minutes. And they're like, wait for next week. Yeah, I hate that. So they've been really hyping up this fucking Aspen episode. And I was so excited. I'm watching it last night. All at the end. All at the end.

And now I'm dying to know what happens. And I just want to say, Team Sutton. Oh. I just want to say that. I'm a Beverly Hills, like I've gone in and out. Yeah, you have been. I haven't been in, but I know Sutton. And I'm interested to see why your team's.

I feel like Sutton is one of my souls. Honestly, Sutton is getting, like, bullied this season to the point where it's actually hard to watch. That happens a lot on these shows. And it's funny because when you watch it, like, at a certain point, I think we've all kind of, maybe it's like the internet or something, we've all kind of reached a point where we're like, oh, yeah, that's not cool. Like all of a sudden you're just like, oh, shit. Like what I thought was fun drama before you're like, hmm. Yeah. That's really mean, actually.

There's still like fun drama. Like I love the fun drama. But sometimes. Yeah. And sometimes it just gets tea. I love that this is a housewives podcast at this point. I would fucking love that. But sometimes it just gets taken to a point where you're like, too far.

Yeah. Too far. I don't need to watch that. Like I don't want to watch Sutton crying because somebody's calling her a cunt. Like, I don't want to watch that. Sometimes there's parts. of reality shows where you're like, I feel weird that I'm being allowed to watch this. Yeah. Like, I don't think I should be allowed to watch this moment.

Maybe it's like it comes with age or something that you're just like, I'm not gaining the same kind of entertainment that I gained from watching somebody be upset about something. It's just not what I'm into anymore. Because a lot of people are talking about like, I don't want to like say names, but there's like some like, honestly there's so much drama going on on TikTok. And I know one person is like breaking down on TikTok and everyone's talking about it. And I'm like, we're not supposed to watch people break down on the internet. Yeah. You're not supposed to watch that for like entertainment value. Yeah. It just really is one of those things that like there's no way. And I saw somebody talk about it that there's no way the human brain was made. Yeah. It was a guy that was

taking a break from TikTok. Yeah. To just like scroll through and watch somebody like going through cancer treatments and like losing their, you know, their loved one to this horrible disease. And like you watch their story and you get so upset and you cry. And then you scroll five seconds later and you're watching someone do a dance that makes you laugh. And then you scroll again. And it's somebody's dog on their last day of life eating delicious food and you scroll again. And it's like, yeah. There's no way our brains are. And I know we're like, fuck the internet right now. But like, aren't we always? It's getting to a point where it's just like, ugh. Like I love TikTok. I fucking love TikTok. My TikTok is a very, it's my for you.

page is a fun place. Honestly, mine is really all happy. It's just making me laugh and like making and giving me like thought provoking things. And a lot of stranger things. I don't have a lot of sad. Oh, a lot of stranger things. I have a lot of edie months and on my for you page, which is fine with me. But it's a lot of like, I don't get any of the sad stuff I think because I'm like, I'm not interested. Like you actually go and click the not interested button. But like it's true that there's just like a lot of there's a lot of, like, I've seen a lot of creators that are having, like, a really hard time right now, and I hope everybody's doing okay. Like, one of my favorite creators, and I know you really love her too, Michaela. I mean, you just have to say Michaela. Oh, yeah. On TikTok, like, people are being awful to her. And I'm like, how, she just seems like that, like, I don't know her personally, but she has a Gemini, so like, boom. But, and she's a Boston girl with, like a full-blown Boston accent. She's the best. But how are you being mean to her? All she wants to do is bring joy. show you how to do your fucking makeup like a boss. Yeah, she's just bringing joy.

And it's just like, I don't know. It's easy from another position to be like anybody talking shit at somebody like that is clearly a very unhappy person. And that's where they get their positive little jollies out is by taking someone else into their darkness with them. And then even that makes me sad to a degree. See, that doesn't make me sad because I'm like, get the fuck off the internet. If that's what you're doing. But I'm like, it's easy for someone else. You can say it to someone else.

It's easy to look in on some other creator and be like, I promise you this is what these people are. Right. But when it's happening to you, it's like, you can't see that. Right. You can't see through it. And it's just all encompassing. And when I watched her videos, like, guys, follow her because she's fucking amazing. Yeah. Because she does amazing makeup. And she's just a, a God, she's a joy. She's a light. She really is. That's the thing. Like, I feel like, I've been meditating so much lately. It's good.

that I'm fucking crazy. And we're also going to get like into meditation in this episode. There you go. We're just, we're teeing up this episode is what we're doing. But I feel like I'm just thinking a lot more about like light and like the light inside of people and like what people project out into the world. And I'm not like,

I'm not just like saying light. I'm just saying like who you are and like karma and all that stuff. And I just don't understand why when people see somebody shining so fucking brightly, you have to take it upon yourself to try to tear that down. That and that's the, I, I think we've all, like the internet is a scary place and it brings out the worst in people. It also brings out the best in people. Like the con kid.

That's it. So it's like there's some really great things and it's like I wish everybody would just lean more that way of like lifting people up. Yeah. And we've all like, you know, everybody's had moments where you've been a dick. And it's like, but just it's fine. Just grow. Right.

Just grow as a person. Because I think you and I are, we've been saying it a lot. We've been saying it for the last like couple of years. I think on this podcast that we're just like, you know what? I just decided it's just like not, I don't find joy in watching, you know, public breakdowns and shit. It's just not something I like to, it's like, I remember when like Amanda Bines when that whole thing was happening, everybody was watching it. And we all were. Nothing included.

I was going to say, I was watching that. And I look back now and I'm like, that wasn't funny. No. Like that wasn't funny. It's just like I know it was like, it's so fun. It's weird to see the difference. when you start growing and looking at that stuff, like how different you can feel about a situation. It's growth.

And it's like when you, I just, I want everybody just to like, that's why I just want to like, you know, shout out podcasts and like shout, like tell you to go listen to these things and go read these books because like let's just fucking lift cool people out. Right. And that's all. Like the thing is, it feels good. If you're putting hate out into the world, you're getting it back. Yeah.

That's why you're miserable. That's why you're unhappy. You got to start speaking good shit into existence. It's true. You got like, you don't compliment somebody because you want something out of it. No. But like, do it because it feels good. And it does.

It really does. It feels a lot. Everybody talks shit with their friends. Of course. We still talk shit. Like, you know what I mean? Of course I'm out here talking shit. We're not sitting there being like, don't say anything mean about anything about it.

No, of course not. You can talk shit with your friends, whatever you want. I think it's when it goes public and when like it just becomes this bullying thing. Like, when I saw Michaela so upset, it just, I was like, dude. Yeah, and I've seen so many creators like that lately. Like some of them are leaving TikTok and stuff and I'm like, man, it's a bummer. And that's the other thing. I'm like, you are going to sit here all these haters and like comment mean shit on this video. But then you're going to be the first person pissed off when that person is like, I'm not creating anymore.

Yeah, exactly. So it's like, just remember that there's humans behind there. And we're not talking about it. Like, we're not even talking about ourselves. We're not even talking about ourselves. Honestly, you guys are fucking awesome. You guys are honestly. We have a great community. Like I talked about like the book unboxing. the other day and you guys like literally made me have like almost tears. Like if I was a human, I would have had tears in my eyes. Right. Because I was reading. I just have to like say this because like one one positive positive to another positive positive, this bitch's waist was

snatched in that video. I like you look beautiful. Your face is gorgeous. That like I got that goes without saying and I'm so happy you wrote a book. But your your waist was snatched. I was like, oh my God. Look at this girl. Thank you. You're welcome. It was the jeans. It really was. It's you. I appreciate that. It's you wearing the jeans. The jeans weren't wearing you. You know what? You look fucking phenomenal and your lashes are to die. Oh my God. Go to Slaley Taylor. The fact that I, I've, Kiley's like, you've been shouting me out on the podcast so much lately. I'm like, I know. You're like, I love you. I know. It's, it's due. It's women supporting women. That's right. Women supporting women.

That bitch put glitter eyelashes in my eyelashes. See? For a concert that I'm going to. Everybody's great. I love life. But you guys are seriously fucking awesome. And we just like, we got to like give you pats on the back because you make us happy. Yeah. And you make us excited to make you content. And you guys rule. You really do. And that's why I want to see like other creators having like so many issues.

I'm like, oh no, can I give you some of my amazing community? Like that's why I wanted to because I'm like, you guys are so fucking amazing. Yeah. And you lift us up all the time. So I'm like, can you? Here you go. Give them that love to like other people too. Yeah, because you guys are just fucking awesome.

Like you were so. sweet on that unboxing video and like I just want to hug you all. Yeah. Just and I don't even like hugs. I fucking hate hugs. So we're both not huggers. Even like I, I didn't know what to caption my picture the other day and I just been thinking lately that I want more tattoos.

So I just made it. I need some more tattoos. Tootos. And so many of you guys were like, I'm a tattoo artist here. Like I would love to tattoo you. Yeah. You just cool. Like that's cool.

Yeah. You're just spreading awesome. Yeah. You just, you guys are great. And I just, we want to let you know whenever we can. how fucking great you are and that we appreciate you. Right now we're love bombing you because we want you to join a cult. No, I'm just kidding.

But we are going to talk about a cult and we should probably get into it now because... That was kind of like my attempt at a segue. There you go. So, you know, we just brought it old school for a second with like a 10 minute tangent in the beginning. Yeah. But I thought it was important. It's just talking about like everybody be psyched. Yeah, exactly.

So I'll just high five each other and tell each other, good job. Great job even. You're doing great today. You look great. You look great. You're going to have a great day today. And if anybody feels like shit right now and you're having like a bad day, you're going to have a fucking great day. You look great.

You know what? I can tell from over here that you smell great. You do smell very good. You are projecting wonderful vibes. You're having a wicked good hair day. You're having an amazing hair day. Your face is radiant. And you know what?

Yeah. You're a wonderful human inside. And your coffee or tea or beverage of choice today is going to be so good. What was I going to say? I was going to tell you something else about yourself. Wow. Wow, that just flew right out of my head. Maybe it'll pop in your head randomly in the middle of the episode.

Oh, it's back. There it is. Our principal from high school. Oh, yeah. Make it a great day or not. The choice is yours. There you go. All right.

So let's get into the story. Now that we've wooed and vibed all over you. It's a whole bunch of woo, so it was really on brand. It's really on brand. That I didn't realize I do is like I am one of those people where I eat my stress away. So I've realized it lately because I've been a lot more stressed. but if I'm really, really stressed out, I'm filling my face at a rate that is just I can't even talk to you about. But ever since I've used Noom, I kind of started realizing that I was doing that.

And, you know, realizing something just gets you one step closer to kind of like rectifying that situation. And the Noom Weight app has some of the nicest coaches on the planet. And once I realized this was something I was doing, I talked to my coach about it. And she was like, all right, so what you're going to do is you're going to sit there and try to figure out, am I eating because I'm stressed? or am I eating because I'm hungry and kind of differentiating between the hunger cues. And that's why I love the Noom Weight app because there's no judgment involved. Like they're just people and they're just trying to help you. With their psychology first approach,

Noom Weight empowers you to build more sustainable habits and behaviors. And let me tell you, once you realize again what's going on in your psychology up here in your brain, those habits are going to be so much easier to change. The behaviors are going to be so much easier to change. And the thing is, every journey is different. So your daily lessons are maybe not going to be the same as mine because they're personalized to you and your goals. This program is based on scientific principles like cognitive behavioral therapy, CBT, which is literally the therapy that I actively do. And then I'm actively doing it on Noom because it helps me understand my relationship with food.

Here's the thing too, whatever your health goals are, because again, everybody's are going to be different. But the flexible, non-restrictive program that Noom uses focuses on progress instead of perfection. and that's something that I think is so much different than other apps out there. You can choose your level of support. You can have a five-minute daily check-in. You could have personal coaching, whatever you want. And progress is not a straight line. Off days are totally okay.

Noom weight's going to help you get back on track. 95% of customers say that newm weight is a good long-term solution. An active numers, that's what they call us, lose an average of 15 pounds in 16 weeks. Noom weight's approach is grounded in science, which I think that's what I really like about it. it just kind of makes sense to me because it's very black and white. They've published more than 30 peer-reviewed scientific articles that inform users, practitioners, scientists, and the public

about their methods and effectiveness. Break the cycle with motivation and support from Noomweights psychology-based approach. Sign up for your trial today at Noom.com slash morbid. That's no-o-o-m.com slash morbid to sign up for your trial today. All right. Well, today's story, honestly, it has like a little bit of everything. We've got, we've got true crime. We've got murder acquittals. Oh, we've got yoga. Of course. And astrology. Wow. And most importantly, there's cults. Of course. I do have to give a little shout out to my friend, not Kay Lee, but Kayla. We were talking a couple weeks ago about how we would have absolutely mistakenly joined a cult back in the 70s. Definitely would. And Kayla was like, Ash,

like, you always say you would have gotten on the bus with Charlie Manson, unknowingly, of course. Of course. And she was like, I don't know if that's the cult we would have ended up in. I think we might have ended up in the Source family. Wow. So that's what I'm going to be talking about. Okay. So I start looking into this.

Like she's like, oh, there's this documentary. It's literally called The Source Family. I think it's on Amazon for free. There's commercials, though. But, um, it's okay. I know how you guys feel about commercials. It's all right. It's okay.

I'm just kidding. But I was like, I started looking into this. I'm like, I have to cover this on morbid. Because I think the last cult that I did personally was the Blackburn cult. Wow. And that was one of my favorite episodes you've done. Oh, thank you. That was also when we discovered fucking Johnny and Tyler from that spooky.

Oh, my God. Yes. Because they had covered it. And I listened to their episode after to like, I was like, ooh, like maybe did I get everything, you know? Ooh. And then I listened to their episode and I said, these boys are great. I love them. I love them.

And then she told me, she said, that's spooky. You got to listen to it. And I said, oh, they're on a fucking network. And they're the best. I think we're going to go do like a collab with them in the next couple of months. So check your eyes out for that. Yippee. Don't check your eyes out.

But yeah. And I also, then I saw some of you suggest this case. Okay. So we're with all that being said, all of the fucking shit. We got to get into the Source Family Cult. And it all begins with a ban named James, Jim, Edward Baker. Yes. Okay.

So there is really limited information on his early life. There's limited information on this case all around. But I did some newspapers.com action. And we love newspapers.com. It just helps you piece the puzzle together. Yeah. It's not an ad. We just genuinely, like, this is organically, we just fucking love newspapers.

I truly do. So I was able to find out that Jim was born in Cincinnati, Ohio on July 4th, 1922. Oh, the roaring 20s. That's what I was literally going to say. So his father left when he was really young, and he was raised primarily by his mom, Cora, which is really pretty name. Now, from a young age, he was super fascinated with health. and wellness. And he ended up growing up in the same neighborhood as Paul Bragg. Do you know who Paul Bragg is?

That sounds very familiar. You're going to realize it because I realized it. And I was like, I literally have his shit in my cabinets. Oh, you probably don't, but it's a little woo. Oh, okay. That only put, like, growing up in the same neighborhood as Paul Bragg only put more of an emphasis on Jim's fascination because Paul Bragg actually became very well known over the years as kind of like an alternative health food advocate. Okay. And he believed he had like these wild beliefs for back then that in order to lead a healthy lifestyle, which it's going to sound funny now, because these are things that I think a lot of people kind of implement into their lives now. Fasting. Like I know a lot of people are into intermittent fasting. He was all about that. He was about no meat, like avoiding meat

and having a regular exercise routine. Yeah. Which we're not saying any of these things are things you should do or not or not do. No, I literally don't have a regular exercise routine. and I never fast. Yeah. Do what you want to do. And talk to a doctor first. So he was also one of the first people to make juicing popular. And eventually he would go on to have his own brand and it all started with Apple Cider

Vinegar. Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar. Oh, okay. He thought that it had like really revitalizing ingredients that would promote a healthy gut and had all these other like health benefits. People love an apple cider vinegar moment. They do. I don't know a lot about Apple Cider Vinegar.

but I do know that it helps with my heartburn. And then I realized that the soy sauce alternative that I use is actually Bragg's brand. Oh, that's funny. Just sitting in my cabinet this whole time. That's wild. It's called liquid aminos. But he was also one of the first people to open a health food store. I think it was opened in 1912.

Wow. And it primarily, it was kind of like a like a Whole Foods Trader Joe's kind of place. But anyway, Paul became a really big part of Jim's life. And he really became like a father figure because remember his father just up and left. So they would go hiking together all the time and they'd, you know, Paul was talking to Jim about this like alternative health lifestyle and Jim was already interested. So I think that kind of planted the seed early on. Yeah. And I think it's where a lot of Jim Baker's foundation came from.

And he would later take his conversations with Paul Bragg and other people and different things he learned through his own studies of health and wellness to open his own health food stores and restaurants. But he had a few things to do before he got there. So when he was 12 years old, he was apparently named America's Strongest Boy. Oh, just casual. That's a thing. I don't know if it still is anymore. I don't know if you can like sign your boy up for that, but sign your boy up. Sign your boy up. Sign your boys up for the America's strongest boy contest.

What's the age range there? Great question. Yeah. I didn't look too much into it because I was just like, wow, cool. Yeah. I'm good knowing just that amount of information. I'm glad. He took that, though.

He took that title and ran with it. Hell yeah. Because as he was growing up, he was like really active. He took archery lessons. He played different kinds of sports. But the main thing that really spoke to Jim was judo. Yeah. You know, of course. It's unclear where exactly his mother worked. I really tried to figure out where she was working and I couldn't. But she was said to have worked with an inmate. So I'm assuming like some kind of like prison system. And this inmate was a judo master before he became incarcerated. And this chudo master. And this chudo master. was the one to teach Jim all about it. Okay. And then Jim basically became a judo master. Wow. Through the teachings of this man. It's very karate kid.

Very. Very wax on, wax off. Oh my God, I wanted to write that. And then I was like, is that too silly? No. Neville. So once he became somewhat of his own judo master, Jim, he either enlisted or he was drafted into the Marines

just in time for the start of World War II. Oof. And he was in the front lines. Like he saw hand-to-hand combat, they said. and he was said to bring home a silver star for his courageous behavior after a ship that he was on was attacked. I will point out that his name doesn't appear on the list of men who did bring home silver stars over the year. So the thing about Jim is like, he becomes a cult leader, spoiler alert. So he's a tall tale teller.

He's a tall tale teller. And then all over the years, like his followers have heard these stories and it's like a game of telephones. Of course. So you don't really know what's true and what's not all the time. That's requirement. for being a cult leader. Absolutely. Sorry if you just heard my chair squeak.

I had to readjust. So, yeah, I didn't see his name on that list. But if you do watch the documentary, the Source Family documentary, they flashed this newspaper headline and I paused and unpaused a million times so I could read it. And basically it said that Jim was aboard the ship called the Chicago and it was attacked. And he seemed to like fight off the enemy. And then the ship that he was on sunk and he floated in the water for hours, I guess, waiting to be picked up.

And that was all while he was still in training. Wow. Allegedly. Allegedly. So he has a time in the war. He does some wild crazy stuff. Yeah. And then he comes home.

Then he gets married to this woman named Margaret, and they have a daughter named Peggy. And Jim is trying to adjust to family life, and he opens up a fitness center that he named after himself. It was called Baker's Gym. But that really only lasted a short while because a main theme in this story is that Jim was always looking for his purpose. Like he never felt like he was fulfilling his purpose.

Yeah. So he was like, I don't know. I feel like there's more out there for me. So he kind of like William Desmond Taylor's and abandons his wife and child to go find what's out there for him. So he's a shithead. Yeah, exactly. I also love that he did Baker's Gym because his name is Jim Baker. Yeah, yeah.

That is fun. It's also like, would you go to Baker's Gym? No. Do they have cookies there? Probably not. I hope so. It's like when Planet Fitness used to give out the free pizza. I'd be like, isn't this kind of counterintuitive?

But it's like, no, fuel up. I love pizza. Fuel up for your workout. I would go for the free pizza all the time. And then I'd be like, oh, I'm going to hop on this machine for four minutes. Bye. Yeah, there you go. You did a workout.

Yeah, four minutes is great. It's more than zero. It's more than I'm doing right now. So you moved your shoulders. That's exercise. There you go. So he ends up, so he leaves. He abandoned his family, his young baby child.

It's fun. And he ends up where everybody goes when they're trying to find themselves. Say it with me. California. Yeah, it worked out. We were on the same page. We were there. As soon as it cal was like, whoops, she's saved the whole state.

I forgot. Okay. That really worked out. So he tried acting for a bit, obviously. Of course. That's what you do when you abandon your family. Always got to go for the acting. He screen tested for the role as Tarzan, but he didn't make the cut.

I think this was before he grew all, or it was before he grew all of his hair. So I guess I get it. He didn't have a long flowing main. He didn't have the main. That's not Tarzan brand. No way. So he was like, all right, that didn't work out. So then he was like, you know what I'll do?

I think I want to become a stunt man. Yeah. So he tried his hand at that. Unclear really how that turned out. It doesn't seem like too much came of it though. And there was still more that Jim felt like he should be doing. Yeah. He didn't know what it was.

But he was like none of this is right. It doesn't feel right. So while he's trying to figure all his life's purpose, he opens up a sandal shop. Okay. That's the obvious next step in your life's journey. He was like good with leather. Like he was like a leather worker.

So I think it was like how he made the sandals. Sweet. And he starts making sandals for this group called the Nature Boys. I had never heard of the Nature Boys, had you? No. They're apparently famous, like well known. Oh. So Jim would like make shoes for them.

They also would like hang out on the beach because they lived off the land. Oh. So the Nature Boys, they wore like. white robes and sandals they only ate fruits and vegetables and they lived off of like very little money okay they lived like i just said strictly outdoors and all about living off the land so one of the nature boys one of the very first his name was even abez and he wrote the song nature boy that nat king cole later made famous oh okay it's actually like a really beautiful song yeah love it um just like a little aside about him i started reading more about him as soon as i got into this one of his main's main

beliefs was to give love and receive love is the greatest gift that one could ever get or give in life. Yeah, just asked you and McGregor in Moulon Rouge. Oh, my gosh. When they play Nature Boy and he says that exact thing. I haven't seen that movie in so long and now I want to watch it. He says to love and be loved is the greatest thing of all. It is. And that's what Eben said.

Eben said it too. He did also believe that no human should capitalize the first letter in their name or their last name, like no capital letters in your name, because God and Infinity were the only two things that were worthy of that much honor. I'm glad you explained that because my next question was going to be like, why though? Yeah, because you're not worthy of that. I mean, I'm doing it. Well, I don't know if you're worthy. Sorry. I don't know. I mean, I'm also doing that. Yeah. I'm going to continue to. You should. Yeah. I like it. So all that to say, that Jim would really start to think a bit more about his conversations with the nature boys and then think back

to his conversations with Paul. And I think the holistic, natural way of life really, really started speaking to him because he's getting older now. He's like nearing his 30s. Yeah. So by the time he's decided to act on those beliefs by opening his very own natural food restaurant, he had met and married another woman. I love that by the way that you said he's getting older now nearing his 30s. Like any 20 year old is old. Like that was wild. I'm really sorry. You're like he was like 27. You know. I feel very old. You are only 26.

I'm not, but I feel it. Sorry, I just mean to interrupt you. I just, that was wild. How dare you? Well, I did insult you a little bit, so like I do apologize 30-year-olds. I do apologize elder millennials. It's okay. I feel fine about it.

I can't wait to turn 30. Turning 30 is great. I think you figure a lot out in your 30s. I think that I'm like approaching it a little sooner than like I would because I You. Yeah, your 30s is definitely when you're like, oh, that's how things work. Okay. Yeah, I'm starting to feel that way.

Yeah. But yeah, so he's old. He's an old 20-year-old. He meets another woman. He marries her. Her name is Elaine, beautiful name. And so he does all that. And also, by the time he opened his restaurant, he had killed a man.

Oh, no. You heard that right. We went from, like, a lot of peace, love, health, hippie ideals. And then we just went, whew, boom, it's just straight up murder. That came out of nowhere. Was it murder, though, Elena, or was it self-defense? You decide. I don't know. I wasn't there. Well, you weren't there, but also, I'm going to tell you about it, so maybe you can make an inference.

Cool. All right, cool. I love the word inference. That's a great word. So the year was 1955, and he's 33. Yeah. So, old Jim Baker was living in Topanga Canyon. Topanga. Thank you. You're welcome. He had a neighbor that he was friendly enough with.

This guy's name was Edward A. Bollinger, I believe. Edward was a mechanic and Edward had a dog named Candy. I love that. I was like, yep, he did. Correct. But he had run into a bit of trouble with the law. It seems like he was driving with a suspended license. I don't know, he was.

I don't know if there were like previous charges that basically he had to go to jail. He was going to be spending some time in the big house. Oh, no. And because of that, he was like, I'm going to be gone, but like I can't bring candy with me, obviously. And I do not let you bring your puppy to jail. No. So he said, hey, Jim, would you mind watching candy while I'm gone? Like, would you take her?

And Jim's like, yeah, no problem. He takes the dog in, Edward heads off to jail. I think it was a short stint because he, you know, hadn't killed anybody. Yeah. But when he gets back, he's fucking pissed at Jim. Oh, no. Because he finds out that Jim wasn't letting candy stay inside at night. Oh, no.

He was like keeping her tied up outside, which I know some people do, you know. No judgment. No. But Edward had judgment. Yeah. It was his dog, so he can. Exactly. He was pissed.

He was like, what the fuck? So this big fight ensues and Edwards ends up dead. Oh, no. And the way that Jim later explained it, he said, he explained to the San Bernardino County son that newspaper, what happened. He said, Edward was, quote, incensed and kept screaming at me. Suddenly, he spun around and I caught a glimpse of metal. Without even thinking, I grabbed his arm in a judo hold and hurled him over a 20-foot

embankment. What? He survived. He still had his knife in his hand. when he started to get up again. I leaped at him and he and used another judo hold. I meant to disarm him not to kill him. So that's what he says happened.

And when the police arrived on scene, they did find Edwards body right next to an eight inch hunting knife. And Jim's wife Elaine was there. She corroborated the story, Jim's story. So he ends up getting off of murder charges and the attack was attributed to self-defense. Oh my. So he has killed one. man. Oh, man. Um, yeah. Now, I found a couple of interesting tidbits and that San Bernardino County

Sun article too. One of which was Jim explaining to the interviewer that his father was a Chicago detective who was killed by gangsters. Literally any other source I could find about his father said that he just left when Jim was still a baby. So I think, I think that was a little fib. It was a little cult leader moment. Yeah, I think he was just embellishing. And then the other tidbit is almost like a little bit of foreshadowing for something later in the story. So I'm just going to have, I'm going to tell you right now and you can hold on to it. You can put it in your back pocket. Woo. The article mentions that Jim won a world judo championship in 1948 against opponent Wild Bill Zim of Argentina. Wow. Like how could I not tell you that? Yeah, you got to tell us that.

He wins the championship against Wild Bill Zim. You win anything against a wild bill or a wild anything for that matter. A wild Thornberry even. You've earned it. Yeah. So he wins that and he says, quote, however, that was my last match. I collapsed with a broken back right after the match. I was hospitalized for more than six months from the injury. It's a very deadly weapon, referring to judo. But now I wish I had never heard of it. Oh. You heard it here first. That was certainly not Jim's last judo match. And it's very interesting that he broke his back at one point in his life. That is very interesting. You'll come back later. Uh-oh. Gosh, when I look at pictures of my skin back in the day, I'm like, girlfriend, what the heck were you using on your face? I'm not going to call it any

brands, but like some of the ones that I found out about, I'm like, ooh, I probably shouldn't have been putting that on my face. But what I will put all over my face is curology's customized skincare. I am absolutely obsessed with curology. I've now been using it for two years. I mean, I heard about curology on podcasts all the time and I was like yeah like I'm yeah I don't know about that but then we got sponsored by curology and I finally got a chance to use it and omg it works so beautifully curology is game changing custom skin care made for you by a dermatology provider they'll create a custom prescription cream for your specific goals whether that's tackling acne clogged poor skin texture spots dark spots fine lines or anything else something else you start by taking a short online

skin quiz and uploading photos and then if it's a good fit, they'll ship your formula right to your door and it even has your name on the bottle and you guys know exactly how I feel about that. The thing that I love about curology is it's not just like a bottle that's made for everybody that they just ship out like to everybody and anybody. You get a specific formula based on all of your issues or things that you want to tackle your personal skincare needs. Over time, I have noticed like obviously, you know, I do be getting the Botox, but I don't get it everywhere. and my cheeks were kind of like looking liney to me a couple years ago. Now that I've been using it, I don't know. I just don't see those lines anymore. And I feel like my skin has this like glowy,

beautiful texture to it. Am I just like hyping myself up right now? Yes, but Curology also was too. I also get their daily moisturizer. It's super lightweight. It's something you can totally use in the summer, but also in the winter because it really is very nourishing as well. Also like smells delicious. I really love it. And the thing that really surprised me the most about curology is I thought this was going to be like 95 steps. It was going to be super hard to implement into my routine. Like that's just been my experience in the past. No, this is a super easy thing to add into your routine.

It takes maybe two and a half minutes every morning. That's it. Get started with Curology just like I did with a free 30 day trial at curology.com slash morbid. Just pay $5 for shipping and handling. That's C-U-R-O-L-G-Y.com slash morbid to start your free 30-day trial. cancel any time prescription subject to consultation so with all that you know murder all now behind jim he decided that he was going to focus on making improvements to his life yeah of course he and his wife

decided together that they were going to open a restaurant and that it was going to be one of the first of its kind in the california area so their plan was to serve like super organic whole foods very health conscious and they decided that they were going to name the place the aware in cool were they was he going to invite his old family to come yeah i don't think so no no i think i think peggy and margaret um said decline that invitation yeah i think they were like i'm good we're going to go eat cheeseburgers together because you left us and that's comfort food so the original aware in uh opened up in 1957 at eight eight 2828 sunset boulevard and there were like quotes painted on the walls that said things like food should be selected with confidence eaten

with pleasure and digested with ease yeah like so motivational and from the start actually the aware inn was a huge success a lot of celebrities were going there to order carrot juice hoping that it would restore their youth or something for sure and there's a misconception that uh the aware in only served vegetarian food they didn't they served meat um there were dishes like burgers beef stroganoff things like that. So they had a little bit of everything, but it was a health-conscious way of doing it. Okay. In their opinion. So with the Aware Inn becoming so popular so quickly, and with the business bringing in a really good amount of money, the baker said, you know what, let's open a similar restaurant down the street a little bit. And they opened up this restaurant, and it was called

the Old World. I like the names. I do like, yeah. There was, there ended up being another one called the Discovery Inn. Like, they're just like fun. They're pretty good at like those like adventurey. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So this, restaurant, the old world, had pretty much all the same values that the Aware Inn had, just with like a slightly different menu, and it was a little farther down Sunset Boulevard. All was well and fine. Business was booming. The bakers even had a couple kids by now. I think they had two. But Jim still wasn't satisfied. Yeah. He can't get no satisfaction. No, he can't. Now, it appears during this time he had at least two affairs on his wife. The first that we're going to talk

about, actually ended up with Jim killing another man. Oh. Yeah. So one of the actresses that frequented his restaurants and hung out on the beach with him from time to time was Jean Ingram. Okay. She's best known for movies throughout the early 60s. I don't know if any of these sound familiar to you or anybody listening.

She was in three came to kill in 1960, Burke's Law in 1963, and Sergeant Deadhead in 1965. Oh, that sounds familiar. The last one sounded familiar to me as well. But back to 1963 for a second, because that is when Jim actually killed Jean's estranged husband over his restaurant, The Aware Inn. Wow. Yeah, wonderful, huh? Okay.

So from the sounds of the setup, there was an apartment above the restaurant. And on January 29, 1963, Gene's husband, Robert, showed up while Jim was at his apartment. And Robert demands that Jim shows him where Gene is hiding. He's like, I know she's in here. I know what's going on between the two of you. Oh, no. You have fought, like, let me not tell you the whole thing right away. Gene honestly very well could have been coming and going to that apartment.

And I don't doubt that Robert probably did see her venture into there at some point. But on that particular day, she was not there. Oh. So they had actually been together, Jim and Gene, the day before. And Robert ran into them. And allegedly, the day before he had threatened to kill Jim when he saw him next. He said, the next time I see you, shit's going down. Yeah.

He said, I know Gene's messing around on me. I know you're the guy and I'm literally going to kill you. He said, one of these days when you least expect it, I'm going to put a bullet through you. Oh, boy. According to Jim. This is messy. It's so messy. So the next day, when Jim told Robert that Gene was not hiding anywhere in his apartment, Robert did not believe him.

So Robert pulls out a gun and he says, you have five seconds to produce her or I'm going to make good on my promise from yesterday. And according to Jim, that is when he personally lost it. He would later tell reporters and the police that he had a horrible temper and that as soon as Robert pulled out the gun, he, quote, knew he was going to kill him one way or the other. Okay, well, that's pretty damning. That's called malice of forethought, Jim. Yeah, it certainly is. So he later elaborated on the temper thing, saying, I have a horrible temper, and it doesn't come up very often. But when it does, I just go berserk.

Oh, no. I'm like, that's not good. You should talk to someone about that. Maybe we should look at that self-defense thing a little harder. Yeah, probably am. Like, you literally hurled a man over a 20-foot embankment. Was that the berserk you were referencing? Yeah, I would say so.

Yeah, self-defense, huh? So when he later recalled the events, he said that Robert Flash the Gun got him, after Robert Flash the Gun, excuse me. Jim got him in some kind of judo holds, of course. The judo holds. He loves a good judo hold. And the two of them ended up on the ground at one point and started wrestling. Now, when Jim had the upper hand, like when Robert was below him, Jim said that he used two judo chops to Robert's neck as a way to disarm him.

I guess that I've never wrestled a gun out of anybody's hands before, but like, why wouldn't you judo chop his arm versus anything else? Yeah. Like, if you judo chop his arm, my thought is like his hand will kind of raise and like the gun will fall. Yeah, at least like hurt and he might loosen his grip. Right. Like, I don't know why you need to judo chop his throat, but, you know, I wasn't there. And I don't know how to judo chop anything. Me neither.

So yeah, once Jim got the gun, he got the gun after he judo chopped him in the throat, and he shot Robert in the head. Geez. He would first say that he shot from about three feet away. He said he was like further across the room. The coroner said, no, no, I disagree, sir. It was more like three inches away. Oh, close range. That is a big difference.

Now, so that's what the coroner said. And then the coroner also said he couldn't determine. determine what had actually killed Robert. Oh. It could have been the gunshot wound to the head, but it also could have been the fact that when Jim judo chopped Robert to the throat, he crushed his windpipe. Oh, my God.

I have to take a deep breath just saying. I would go out on a limb and say that was probably going to be the cause of death if the gunshot wound didn't happen. That's the thing, exactly. Damn. Crushed his wind pipe. He's like, that's not disarming someone. No.

That's killing someone. Murdering someone. Yeah. And here's the thing. Jim tries to say that this is self-defense. No. Which maybe it started off that way. But then you literally just told us as soon as things started, you knew you were going to kill him one way or the other.

Yeah, and that's not self-defense. Right. It's not I knew I was going to incapacitate him or I knew I was going to disarm him. Right. No, you said you wanted to kill him. Exactly. It doesn't make any sense to me. Come on, Jim.

So his trial begins. pretty quickly. Interestingly enough, I don't know how often this happens. I thought that juries had to be like closer to even between men and women. His jury was made up of 11 women and one man. Oh, wow. That's crazy. Yeah, isn't that kind of crazy? Just like an interesting fun fact. So he explains to this jury that his relationship with Gene was simply platonic and that the murder of Robert Ingram was in fact, you guessed it, self-defense. Of course. He did admit, he said, yep, Jean and I actually did kiss on one occasion, which just so happened to be the one time where Robert caught us.

Oh. Yeah, that's so coincidental, huh? So crazy. And he said, that's when Robert's jealous obsession began. I would argue that, like, many people might become jealous and obsessed with you if you kiss their wives. Yeah. I don't think you should do that.

Yeah, I don't think you should do that. No. No. But he did tell the jury that Jean was not the type of girl to enter a love affair so callously. Oh. He said, she's not that. kind of gal. No. And Gene was actually called to testify for the defense. And she told them that she and Robert had actually been separated for the last two years and that at the beginning of that separation

or shortly into it, they had made the agreement to function as though they were divorced. Oh. But I'm like, that's you saying that. Yeah. I don't know. He's not here to say whether or not that's the case. Exactly. And she, according to her, Robert didn't take that separation lightly, which doesn't sound like it. No. How could you? You know, you're, that's sad. That's a bummer. So she said, though, that he not only threatened to kill Jim, but also he had threatened to kill her on many occasions, and any man that she ever went on to date. She echoed Jim's same explanation. That's very possessive. She echoed Jim's same explanation of their relationship. She said they were not romantically involved and that their relationship, Elena, was more of a spiritual attraction. Oh boy.

She said there are conversations consisted of philosophy, religion, nature. Yeah. We just love to talk about the world, man. Oh, for sure. Peace, which that's what I saw. Honestly, I feel like that's, like, my essence. I was going to say you'd love this. I do.

Yeah. So moving on, though. Jim's wife actually stuck by him throughout the trial and also believed that there was like nothing going on between him and Jean. Okay. And mind you, they still have children at this point. So this poor woman had to go through a trial that was basically like, is this guy having an affair? Is that why he murdered this actress's

fucking wife? And, oh, they did smooch once and he's going to admit it in court. And you have to sit there and hear it. This is bad. Like, that sucks. Bad news bears. That really sucks. So, like, I give her a lot of credit for sticking by him. For sure. So on July 3rd, 1963, just one day before Jim's 41st birthday, he was sentenced to, I don't know why. I just thought that I said sentenced wrong, but I did. You did not. He was sentenced to spend one to 10 years in prison after he was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter. Damn. It's not only one to ten?

Isn't that I'm saying? Oh, just wait. And, you know, I really don't think his comment about making up his mind that he was going to kill Robert one way or the other didn't, you know, I don't think it helped the self. I don't think that helped at all. Now, even still, his lawyer, Maurice Harwick, immediately filed an appeal saying that Jim hadn't received a fair trial. I don't know on what grounds he was trying to say that he didn't, because I just saw this in

newspapers.com that he was like, I'm filing an appeal. Yeah, they always try. But the honorable Kurtz Kaufman, what a fucking name. Kurtz Kaufman. Kurtz Kaufman. And it's Kurtz with a Z at the end. Oh, yeah, that's how I saw it in my head. Better be. He disagreed. He was like, I don't think so. And like, your appeal can go fuck itself. He denied it. So Jim gets led away to go to prison. And his wife is standing there crying. And she's able to give him a kiss before they take him away and she yells after him like if you need me to do anything you just call me which is so sad. I feel really bad for her. I do too. Now ultimately Jim did not end up spending that much time in jail because he did appeal his sentence again and this time he won. I don't know on what grounds he appealed

that. I couldn't figure it out. But he ended up only spending its sources vary on how long he spent in jail from how long he spent in jail, excuse me, from one to five months. Oh, okay. But a matter of very literally nothing. It's a sneeze. It's essentially a matter of days really when you look at it. So Jim stayed quiet for a bit after he got out of prison. But then right around 1965, so about three, two, yep, three. No, I don't know. A couple years after he got out of jail is kind of right when like the hippie movement was starting to become a thing. Like it was really starting to become more mainstream. Yeah. And he meets this young hippie chick named Dora. He's 43 when they meet and she's 19. Um, it's legal, but Jim, you're supposed to be staying out of trouble. I don't know if hooking up with a 19 year old is the best bet for you. Yeah, I'm just going to stay over here. You have a wife and children. Yep, there's that. You probably shouldn't be hanging out with 19 year olds. Can you imagine if your 43 year old old husband came home one day and was like, I'm at this 19 year old hippie. I didn't even say John. Like, I'm just like, imagine another alternate year. Yeah, another alternate man.

I could not. She's also from France. So she's like, cool. I'd be like, who's this young French girl that you're hanging out with. Yeah, I'm going to stay quiet over here about what I do. Oh, I know. Castration. I'm just, I'm totally kidding. So Dora was from France. Like I said, she was fully immersed in the hippie lifestyle.

She was doing loads of acid, smoking tons of pot, experimenting with other drugs that I don't really think people realized back then would lead to some serious fucking issues. Yeah. And looking back on the time that he met Dora, Jim said he had plenty of money because the restaurants were still doing well. but even though he had all that success and fortune, he was still absolutely miserable. He started drinking really heavily and he said by the time he met her, he was an alcoholic who was bored of everything.

Damn. But that all changed when he met her. He was like, oh, this is exciting. Like, I want to hang out with you. Now, it's unclear whether or not he was separated from his wife at this point in time. I don't think they were separated and I think this might have been a big tipping point in their relationship. He's so annoying. He's the most annoying because, listen, I'm all about finding yourself.

Like, I feel like I'm kind of finding myself a little bit right now. I'm 26 and I don't have children. That's the thing. Stop producing children and getting married if you're not sure of yourself. Yeah, you're like, you already abandoned one family and now you're on your way to abandon another. And there's children, like you just said, involved in these scenarios. I feel like you're always finding yourself in some way. Right.

But like he's doing in such discharging. destructive ways and hurting everybody around him and like pulling his family that he's creating into these situations. And it's like, dude, fuck off into the desert and do it by yourself, but stop having kids and stop getting married. Like, this guy's so fucking annoying. I just want to like, ugh. He gets increasingly more annoying as the story goes on.

Your scowl is going to turn into a scow. Yeah. I'm just like, ugh. Like every time you bring, he just brings this 19 year old and is like, yeah, you're just like so much. fun. Like, fuck off. And you're for it. Like, you're having, sir, you're having a midlife crisis. Yeah, like, please leave. You've also literally just got let out of jail for killing the second man that you've killed in your lifetime. I think we should focus on the business. Yeah, you need to, like, he's consistently having a midlife crisis and it's really annoying. Since he was like in his 20s.

Yeah, and I'm over it now. Same. I'm over it. And you know who else is over it? His damn wife. Good. So Dora and Jim, they start spending a lot of time together. And he said he wanted to know more about these flower children and what they were all about. Shut up. And he certainly starts finding out rather quickly. So he starts, remember, he's an alcoholic at this point. And then he starts smoking pot with Dora and her friends. And then he makes his way to acid. And then eventually he tries and gets really, really hooked on speed. And back then, this is like even a different kind of speed. Because back then, I'm sure you've heard of it, there was a different form of speed, excuse me, that was known on the street as black beauties.

Yep. Instead of just the powder that people would inhale nasally most of the time, black beauties were a pill taken orally that would give you the same effects or even deeper effects because the two main ingredients in a black beauty pill are infatamine and dextroinfetamine, both of which are scheduled two controlled substances, meaning they are both extremely, extremely addictive and habit forming. So I guess their effect essentially creates kind of like a, a buzz, hence the name speed.

But when they're taken long term, they can lead to some serious psychological side effects like depression, anxiety, aggressive or violent behavior, which Jim already is displaying. Yeah. And then I bolded these next couple of them. Unrealistic ideas of power, confidence, and strength. And in some cases, the psychological effects could also be hallucinations and complete psychosis. So this is just like a real. recipe for a cult leader. It's the recipe for a cult leader. Unrealistic ideas of power,

confidence, hallucinations, and eventually complete psychosis. Like bake for 20 minutes and let cool on the counter. Like you know the open, I don't know if you know it, but like you people, you know like the opening scene of the Power Puff Girls where he's like sprinkling in sugar and spice and all that shit. No, but that makes sense. They were, that's what they do when they make a cauldron of cult. There you go. They sprinkle in unrealistic ideas of power. Yeah. fucking hallucinations and a lot of confidence, yeah, all of it. I literally can't. So yeah, Jim,

he was really into Black Beauties and sadly, like I said, he became very addicted. And then he starts dipping into the restaurant profits to be able to afford more and more of this. And to make up for the lost money, this is wild that there's not any fucking information on this. I don't know if it's true. I don't know if it's not true. He would later say that to make up for the money he was dipping

into from the restaurants that he robbed between two and 11 banks. Between two and 11? It was about two. It was kind of like 11. Like could have been three, could have been eight. Between 68 and 412. Vastly different numbers, my dude. What?

What? I mean, he was on speed, so like I guess I understand why you can't create a timeline. That's wild. I'm also like, were there a lot of banks being robbed at this? Yeah, like, was this reported? No. No. But nothing that I could find.

Okay. Yeah. He was never caught, so I don't know if it's true or not, but he sure talked about it a lot. And it's one of the first things in that documentary that you'll hear. Either way, though, the investors and the restaurants were like, yeah, you need to fucking stop doing this because we're not making any money. Yeah. Because you can't just keep robbing banks about it, if that's even what you're doing. So they're like, yeah, we're going to cut you out of all of it.

this. Like, you're done. Good. You're done. You're done. You're done. And they basically pushed him out of the restaurants to save them. Good. They told them they told him to fuck off into the desert. They certainly did. So Elaine would go on to run the aware in for the next some odd years. Good for her. She and Jim officially divorced in 1969. Good for her. She said, I'm going into the 70s and you're not invited. Yeah, I'm not bringing you into the 70s with me. No, no, no. No way. So yeah, he's literally completely like moved on now just abandons that entire family. Cool, you're the worst. Yeah, like even William Desmond Taylor only abandoned one family. That's a joke. That is a joke in case it was not clear. A joke. You've pressed an incorrect. So in the time between meeting Dora and getting divorced,

Jim dove headfirst into a life that, like I've said, he seemed to be curious about since he was younger. Dora introduced him into the world of yoga, and it seems like at some point he kind of got off the hard shit. I'm not sure. He definitely still smoked weed. I'm sure he did some acid about it. So, like, I don't know. He was doing a little bit better, but again, he abandoned another family. So how good is he really doing? But again, he's really getting into the study of different religions. Uh-oh. So you see where we're headed. It's like normal people when you want to study that stuff. Like, sure. Yeah. This guy. I don't know. We're on a path. We are on a freaking path. And he's getting more and more into like mysticism. Like, did I say? say that right? Yeah, good. Good. And he gets the itch. He's like, you know what, I've been cut out of all of these

restaurants. So he gets the itch to open another restaurant. And this is the wildest story. And this is reported the same in many different sources. So I think this happened. Oh, man. So one day, he meets this guy on a hike. And he's talking to this guy. He's like, I got all these great ideas for this new restaurant I want to open. I have a ton of experience as a restaurant owner. You might have heard of me, like, for my other restaurants. And he like left out the part where he got cut. out of those deals. Yeah. And he said, I learned a lot over the years about cooking and about the body and how it

breaks down food. And I really want to take that wisdom and open up a new restaurant that's going to incorporate the values of healthy eating, wellness, and also the secret teachings of Jesus Christ as revealed through the Essence gospel or the seen gospels of peace. Okay. It's a restaurant. Yeah. Like, I love a cool vibe in a restaurant.

Yeah. I love different lighting. I love when the walls are a cool color. I don't know if you need to think this deeply into it. Yeah, I mean, you're going to have a certain clientele. Like, you're going to limit your clientele a little bit by, like, really only focusing on that. But, you know, like, that's on you, man. But go off, Jim.

You have not been killing it so far. So this does not shock me that you are already narrowing down that customer base right from the jump. I think a lot of times when you're stuck in this kind of like loop of frustration, you really start to focus on problems and like everything that's going wrong instead of what you can do to fix it, aka a solution. I've been there before. I've been like, I really hate this person. I don't want to be around them. I'm just, I hate it. Oh my God. But like, what was I going to do about it? I went to therapy. That's what I did. It can be tough to train your brain to stay in problem solving mode when you're faced with a challenge or multiple challenges in life. But when you learn how to find your own solutions,

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And I put it off for a long time. I was like, I don't need to go. I'm just fine. Oh my God. Looking back on who I was back then and who I am now. I feel like I'm a much more understanding person. I'm way less stressed than I used to be. And honestly, I think I approach situations with a little more confidence.

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Maybe it was like just secret ingredients. Yeah, it's like the secret teachings. You don't know about it. I don't. I don't need to. So this guy that he's on the hike with just fucking shooting the shit, his name is Ray Feldman, excuse me, he's like, I think you're the bee's niece. I think you're even the cat's pajamas.

And you know what? I want to invest in your restaurant. Sounds like a great opportunity. He's like, I also want to mix chicken bolognese with the secret teachings of Jesus Christ. Don't we all? Yes. My favorite part of the entire exchange is that this restaurant literally didn't even exist yet. And he's like, I want to invest in that shit.

And he's like, take my money. Like, wow. Yeah. I talk about a startup. Wow. So on the, I don't know if it happened on the trail or like when they made their way back down. But he just hands this man a $35,000 loan. Oh, he, this is a cult leader.

Right? This is, he's a cult leader already. That's the thing. He just got somebody to hand him $35,000 with just the idea of a restaurant that, that mixes food and religion. Yeah. And like, hippie ideals. Yeah. what and just you know I did the conversion of 35,000

back then this is like 1969 today that would be like handing somebody 300,000 wow, sir that's a lot that's cult leadership that's the thing he was said to be super super charismatic yeah it has to be obviously charismatic I know I said that's super weird so with that the source was born all right we're restaurant So the source had a very, I'm sure you're shocked to hear it.

Hippy feel to it. What? Unlike the restaurants that he'd opened with his ex-wife, the source was 100% vegetarian. Apparently the salads were really to die for. I did look at the menu and some of it looks absolutely fucking delicious. Get out of here. They had like a secret sauce too, which... Yeah, I'm sure they did.

I wonder what... A lot of secrets up in here. It's so big. It's full of secrets. Yeah, anytime there's too many secrets in a restaurant, I don't want to be a part of it. But fucking get this, dude. This restaurant, like, he's really good at opening a restaurant. I don't know what it.

Like, he knows. He knows what makes people tick. And it started getting a very notable clientele. John Lennon and Yoko Ono were, like, obsessed with this place. They were frequent flyers. It makes sense. I'm not shocked at all. Goldie Hawn loved it there.

Joni Mitchell, Marlon Brando, Greta Gabo. Wow. All these people are frequenting this restaurant. It also was actually featured in the movie Annie Hall. I've never seen that movie. Oh. But Alvi orders at the restaurant alfalfa sprouts and mashed yeast. Oh, that's weird.

So the thing is, though, the celebrities were not the only people stopping by. The source really ended up being kind of like this hot spot in town for a lot of lost younger kids and their pre and early teens to just hang out. And Jim was given jobs to the youths, excuse me, there's just something about him, again, like with all call leader. Something about Jim. that just felt really comforting to them. And by this time, he had started dressing exclusively in, like, white robes from head to toe, you know? Yeah, of course. Of course.

Like, he's a cult leader. He's been a cult leader his whole life. He very much is. I've been waiting. He was born with a robe on. I was just waiting for it to come out. That's the thing. A lot of times, too, he'd wear, like, kind of, like, a really long tunic style top and, like, loose white pants.

Just, you know, very cult leader chic. You have to dress the part. No. But I, the weird thing. is, like, he, like, you look like a cult leader, sir. But I don't think the younger people hanging around the source really got the impression that this is what he was going to become. Though, what many people say is that he became like more of a father figure to these kids, because they are young and impressionable. Well, and it's good that he was fathering somebody.

Yeah, not his own kids. Yeah. We'll get to that. But I, a lot of these kids, I think, we're lacking this at home because you have to think this is like the late 60s, early 70s. I think during that period, most dads weren't super mushy, gushy with their kids. There was a lot of untreated PTSD going on from the war years, a lot of stress because of the general shape of the world at this point. And I think it wasn't considered manly to be home and hanging out with your kids on that time. shitty. But that's how it kind of was.

And this is exactly what you need to start a cult. It's exactly what you need. They're going to listen. they're going to be gullible, they're going to be looking for love, they're going to be looking for attention, they're going to be looking for some kind of comfort. It's the perfect source. It is. And of course, I just want to note that, like, I'm generalizing there.

I'm sure your dad from the 70s was fucking awesome. I'm sure your dad fucking ruled in the 70s. I mean, my grandpa ruled in the 70s. It's true. So there's that. My dad was just, like, born in the 70s, I think. So he was ruling. He was ruling.

But all these preteens and teens, they start hanging out at the source. And Jim is teaching them all about spiritual. and wellness and he starts teaching yoga classes. And the kids are just kind of not leaving. They're getting jobs there. And then they're kind of like moving in, sleeping in the apartments above the restaurants, setting up camp outside,

living and working at the source 24-7 with Jim serving as a Zaddy. Wow. So around this time, again, still 1969, Jim meets another young woman. And her name is Robin. And oh my God, she is absolutely fucking stunning. If you see a picture of her,

Like retroactively, I want to be like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. You have the world at your fingertips, Robin. I also was just thinking, when you said the source and you started talking about like preteens and everything, I was like, what am I thinking of? The Boy Meets World episode when John joins the center. This sounds exactly like that. I think it's probably based off of this loosely. It feels like this might be based on it.

Oh, God. I need somebody to go through our episodes and listen how many times we have referenced that one specific episode. Oh, yeah. It's an... It's iconic episode. I love that episode. I also... Off topic. I also recently watched the Thanksgiving episode. That'll change you. That's a great one. The one with like where Sean's family joins Corey's family.

Of course. But... Love. The one with the center, when Mr. Hunter... Or excuse me, when Mr. Matthews... Yes. pushes him against the wall. The best. Wow.

And then when... I know. He became a zaddy in that moment. When Mr. Feet, he says you can't have Sean. I was like, oh, Mr. It's a lot. That's a great episode. It is. It's a great episode. Boys meets world. Boys meets worlds. Boys meet swirl. Boy. Single boy. Only Corey. Single boy meets world. Honestly, it should have been boys though because it was Corey Sean and Eric. Yeah, but it's really just, it's falling Corey. Yes, yes, yes. But I lost my train of thought. It was just a great show. But anyways, you're right. Very similar to the center. So he meets gorgeous, gorgeous Robin. And it's honestly unclear what happens to Dora. I don't know if she just kind of faded off in an acid trip or like what happened, but she was gone. She got out of here. And Jim really sets his eyes on Robin.

And he keeps telling her, like, you got to come by. You got to take one of my yoga classes. Because by now, again, he's teaching regular night yoga classes at the source once the restaurant's, like, closed for the day. Yeah, of course. So Robin didn't really seem interested at first. And she kept brushing off the invitations. And to be fair, Jim really loves 19-year-olds.

Robin's also 19. Jim needs to go away. He needs to go far, far away. She's 19 years old at this point, and she's like, why is this like old man trying so hard for me to take his yoga class? Like, this is kind of weird. Ew, get out of there. But finally, one night, she's like, you know what? Let me just go see what this is all about.

Like, I do like the source restaurant. I'll, like, sure, I'll take a yoga class. Like, she's into the hippie ideals. And this night was Friday, August 8th, 1969, a date that might sound familiar to some regarding another cult. So Robin blows off plans with her friend Sharon and heads to the source to see what Jim's yoga classes are all about. Now, she loved the class. She thought it was awesome. And the two of them start talking after class.

And they actually, it was like this sudden switch. Like they really start to hit it off. Again, there's just something about Jim. People couldn't put their finger on it, but he's got this charm. He's got this charisma. He knows how to talk. And as she was leaving that night, Robin was like, I kind of, like, I feel like there was like a reason I was supposed to meet Jim. And the next morning, that feeling would overwhelm her entire being.

Because the next morning, Robin's friend Sharon, that she had canceled plans with that previous night, was found murdered in her home. Wow. Sharon Tate. Whoa. Had she gone to Sharon's home that night? Whoa. She would have been killed. Okay.

when you said that date that popped into my head but I wasn't thinking it was going to connect in any way. I thought it was going to be like a, oh, that happened and it made them like form more into a cult kind of thing. Like I had, wow. I tried to be like she blew up plans with her friend Sharon. And I could tell I wasn't. No, was not connecting. Was not. Wow.

So she blew off plans that night. And I didn't realize this in the original. I want to actually redo the Manson episodes. I think I could do them a lot better now. Yeah, that's what we've been doing that with a couple of them just like going further into stuff. I didn't realize the day that Saturday. So he was murdered on a Friday, technically a Saturday, because it was like in the early morning hours. The next day was supposed to be her baby shower.

Oh, I had no idea. I didn't know that either. Oh, that's awful. I found out like when I was researching this part of it. Oh, that's terrible. Awful. But so then like she's already thinking I was supposed to meet Jim and then this happens. Of course you're going to line those two events up and be like, no, I was supposed to meet him.

Well, and what a traumatic event that's going to push you further into looking for meaning somewhere. Exactly. Here's the meeting. I was supposed to meet him. Exactly. Yeah. So everything shifted for Robin in that moment. Like you just said, losing a friend and coming to terms with the fact that she could have been killed, it only made her lean closer into Jim.

Yeah. And pretty quickly, the two of them started falling in love. Now, Robin later recalled that she said, I'd never been loved the way that Jim loved me. She called him her night in shining armor. she recalled that he really opened up her mind. She said, he opened me up to a world that was filled with light and love and protection and consciousness. Okay. And from that day forward, the two of them became inseparable. And by 1970, they were married. That's what I say about John. I was like, he just opened me up to a, what was it? I always forget what I say. I always forget what I say. I always forget what I say. I would say that Drew opened me up to light love protection and consciousness too, actually. It sounds great. It's beautiful when your man's is a cult.

That's wonderful. Yeah. And another thing, you should watch the documentary. I don't want to, like, tell you everything about it. But one thing I will mention is Robin had been really sick in her childhood. She was like a very sickly child. And I guess she almost died. Oh, wow.

And Jim obviously gets her on this like holistic kind of venture. And you know, that can sometimes turn things around. So she was in like the best health of her life she felt in that moment. So I think that was like another thing that made her lean into him. Of course. No. So they get married. And then, you know, Jim loves religion and the,

and all this stuff. So they start talking about that and meditation and yoga and all of it. And around this time, Jim really starts falling in love with the teachings of Yogi Bajan. So Yogi had his own following and he taught Kundalini yoga, which was something that Jim would later use in his own teachings. Kundalini, I think, is just like all about like energy. It's like some energy that sits at the base of your spine and the yoga practice brings it throughout your body. I don't know a lot about it. That's why you toot during yoga. sitting at the base of your spine and it's got to leave. You're not wrong. Never mind. But, yeah, so he kind of takes that and brings it into his own teachings later on. And actually, Robin and Jim went out to meet yogi, as well as many other prominent spiritual leaders. And they finally said to each other after meeting with all these different people, potential cult leaders,

that they want to start their own religion. But they're not looking at this as like, we want to start a cult. They're like, we want to start our. own beautiful religion. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like 100% of the time when you say that, you're looking for a cult. Yeah. That's just me. I'm going to say that Jim probably was thinking of it more from a cult-like perspective. I think to Robin, she was like a young hippie. Oh, yeah. These are like young people that are being, I'm blaming him completely. She was, she was abused by him. Yeah, he 100% was looking to form a cult. Absolutely. I believe he was.

The only reason I said that was because I don't think Robin was. No, I can definitely get behind that she was just kind of brought in, especially in like a traumatic part of her life. And 19 years old, you're fucking... I was a... A baby. You don't know it, but you are. Like, at 19 years old, I was making the worst decisions of my life. Oh, like, I was doing things that now I look back on and I'm like, what the fuck were you doing?

Like, I can see why she followed him into the dark because, like, I was following someone into the dark at 19, so I can do. totally understand that. I was a miserable human at 19. Like, same. Not, not good. But him definitely was like to start a cult. When he's like freaking 47 by this point. Like, what are you doing Jim? Starting a cult. Literally. So Robin explained that after carefully studying each religion, she and Jim, she said they cherry picked to the best parts of separate religions and they worked them into their own philosophies like many, many equal leaders do. Exactly. To the kids who never left the source, Jim became their earthly spiritual father. Of course he did.

And Robin became known as Mother A-Om. I love that. Yeah. Jim, who later also became known as Father Yod or Yehoa, said of starting his own religion, I realized I had to do it on my own. I had to get my own children because I believed that he was prevailing through me, and that's what he wanted me to do. I left, never went back. Jim, you have several children

You have, I believe, three children At least three that we know of Yeah, there's probably more What the fuck? I had to get my own children Yeah, you have to get your own children Oh my God, fuck off into the sun This guy can get fucked

Yeah, he does. Ew. You're going to be so happy. No, I shouldn't say you're going to be so happy at the end But you're going to be like I'm going to be like, yeah I'll make that sound, I'll make sure to do it. You should.

So eventually 140 members of the source family. They become known as the source family. Yeah. Move into Jim's home in the Hollywood Hills. I'm not shocked by this. 140 of them. It was a rented home from the Chandler family who were very famous for owning a ton of newspaper companies and like kind of building and developing a lot of different areas, like the San Fernando Valley and the Hollywood Hills. Now, Harry was the patriarch of that family, but he had died in 1944 and his wife still ran his estate. And in 1970,

she rents it out to Jim Baker or as we will now call him father father and he paid a thousand dollars a month which does not sound like a lot if you're renting a one bedroom somewhere now that is like way more than that but today that thousand dollars would be like paying seven thousand eighty seven dollars for rent so pretty penny yeah now the home was massive it was a mansion it had been built in 1914 there were 24 rooms inside there was a guest house outside eight bedrooms, four bathrooms, a library, a salarium, a huge cool. So salarium sounds cool. I think all a salarium is as a sunroom. Yeah, it is. Yeah. It just sounds really cool. Yeah, I thought it was somewhere where you looked at the stars. Yeah, I mean, you can. It's like a sunroom.

Yeah, just don't look at the sun. Yeah, don't do that. No, it also had a huge pool. It had a four-car garage that father used to store beautiful cars. The main one that he really loved, his baby car, was a white Rolls-Royce. Wow. Motherfucker. I'm just putting it out there. If you're natural, holistic, only fill my body with greens and carrot juice

and give yourself unto me, your earthly spiritual father who is whipping around a Rolls-Royce, you're in a fucking cult. You are. You're in a fucking cult. Also, if you're co-living with 140 members of a quote-unquote family that you're literally not actually related,

to in a giant house and all of you co-own all of your earthly possessions because you're not supposed to have any of your own but father can he doesn't subscribe to the co-owning of possessions it's a cult you are so totally officially a cult like remember in there was a UFO episode we did where it was like you've been probed you've been culted you are in a cult you're in a cold that's like it's just the way it is he is making you give up all your possessions but he's whipping you around in a rolls royce Yeah. And like maybe you think that like you co-own that Rolls Royce with him? You don't. Whose name's on the title be? Yeah, that's his. Whose name's on the title? That's his roles. So the new source family, they didn't yet feel like this was a cult. And they said it was just like a family of like-minded people. They had a goal of spreading good throughout the world. And while they were in this first house, a cult, yes. Well, they were in this first house. They started referring to it as the mother house. Yeah. They started talking amongst themselves while they were spending more and more time at them. mother house. And this is when they decided that they really wanted to unite their ties together. And they said, what better way to become a real family than have the same last name?

Yeah. So they settled on the surname Aquarian because it was the age of Aquarius. I was just going to say it's the age of Aquarius. Yes, exactly. I don't know. I tried to look into like what the age of Aquarius is. And I felt like I was joining a cult a little bit. I was going to say it's, it's basically when, you know, the Manson family happens. It's very deep. It's very hard to explain. It's interesting to look into, but just don't go too far. Be careful. They decided, yeah, they were going to change their name to Aquarian, and many of them made their name changes official with the Social Security Office. Like, they made this official. Wow. And all, pretty much all of them changed their own first names to things like orbit, electricity, heaven, harvest moon, and sunflower, etc.,

etc. I like Harvest Moon. I love Harvest Moon. That's pretty metal. I also love that song. Harvest Moon Aquarian. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. Harvest Moon went through some shit. Yeah. So Father Yod set up a list of 10 commandments to follow and I got them right here for you. Also, if anybody sets up a list and says these are the commandments that you are to follow, you're in a cult. One, obey and live by the teachings of your earthly spiritual father because you're an occult. Yeah. Number two, love your spiritual father more than yourself because this is a cult. Calty, cult, cult, cult. Number three, harm not one of your body parts either by neglect, food, drink, or knife.

That's just a good rule of thumb. A lot four, allow each vibration to complete its own cycle without interference. You're in a cult. I don't even know what that means. It's culty. Number five, possess nothing you do not need and share all you have. C-U-L-T cults. Also, I'd be like, so who, like, do I get to deem a feeling?

I need it or not because I do be needing my Botox and I do be needing my car and I do be needing a lot of things. No, you don't because you're in a cult. Cheryl, you have. Yeah. Number six, the man and his woman are one. Let nothing separate them. I want you to listen to that one again. Number six, the man and his woman are one. Let nothing separate them. Okay, wonderful. A union. I love it. Maybe Jim should subscribe to his own rule of thought. I was like, but we'll get there. But Jim. Number seven, squander not by creative force and lust,

but come together only when three vibrations of the physical, the mental and emotional are in harmony with spiritual love. You're in a cult. Number eight, each morning join your vibration with the ascending currents of the universal life energy using the keys that your earthly spiritual father has taught you because I don't know if you've realized this yet, but like you're in a cult. Number nine, do every act energetically, intelligently, truthfully, and lovingly. that's not humanly possible.

No. Number 10, when these commandments are mastered, leave the house. Leave the house of your earthly spiritual father. Get the fuck out after this. And do the work of your heavenly father. Oh. No.

Okay. You're in a cult. So father also set up a morning routine that was called spiritual boot camp. Okay. Yeah. Does do things seem like conflicting notions, but let's go. Boot camp is not spiritual. Let's go.

I mean, I've never done a boot camp. I've done like an exercise boot camp and nothing about it was spiritual. Well, I was like, I have done the little bitumen. Actually. It's really, I haven't done boot camp. Now, everybody in the family for the spiritual boot camp would wake up at 4 in the morning. And upon waking, they were to take a deep breath. Ready? And then they were to exhale the word, Yahaha.

Father told them that this was God's name, Yehoa. And he was the son of God who went by the same name because he was like equally as good as God. Oh. So do that. Oh, okay. And then they were to either say aloud or in their head, just like whatever feels good to you that day. You still have like one or two choices left. Be still and know I am God.

But I thought the other guy was God. And I thought that you were the son. So like, why do I have to wake up and say that I'm God? What? I just like, like, be still. I like to wake up and say, where's the fucking coffee? Yeah. I like to wake up and text Elaine a coffee.

question mark. Yep. I just wake up to my youngest being like, can I go downstairs? No, she said, can I watch stinky and dirty? Is it morning? Not yet. And she's like, I want to watch Sticky and Dirty. Yeah. And you're like, oh, good morning. Stinky and Dirty is a great show. It is. Now, once they were finished with, you know, their personal moments of I Am God and Yaha'uahua, they were ready for the boot camp of it all. So they would all file out into the backyard and they would get into the pool, no matter what the temperature was, you were to get into the pool because, you know, you have to rid your body of all sleep and negativity. No, I'm out already. Got by. I am out. Bye. Once that was finished, they had to do an exercise routine that included

pull-ups, dips, a little jog, and push-ups on their fingertips. Okay. But why though? Like, can anybody even, like, I was just going to say, is that possible? Apparently. Wow. The routine was referred to as star exercise. And the whole point was to, quote, tune yourself into the universal energy currents of the morning. Meanwhile, the morning universe is like, what the fuck are you all doing? Literally. The morning universe is like, I'm not doing that. And your neighbors are annoyed.

Yeah. For me, like, I love a good coffee. I love a breakfast sandwich. And if I'm really feeling one with myself in the universe, some morning affirmations. There you go. But that's really it. So once the star exercises were completed, they were to take one six second inhale of marijuana. Six seconds.

Don't you feel like that's long? I know everyone always yells at me because I like know nothing about drugs. Like I'm the worst drug person ever. But yeah, like I don't. That feels like a lot, right? I smoke a lot of weed and can you count? Yeah, no. Yeah, I haven't even gotten to six yet.

That's a long inhale, as far as I'm concerned. Whenever I've talked about, like, smoking weed on the podcast before, people are like, you don't even know anything that has to do with anything. So maybe this is a very normal inhale, but it feels real long to me. It feels long to me. I also had childhood asthma, and I'm a little overweight, so, like, leave me alone. But this practice, and the stoner people will love this. I thought this was really funny.

This practice was referred to as the sacred breath. The sacred breath, which, like, agreed. So for the most part. everybody actually seemed really happy at the mother house. Like, they were happy to do star exercise. They were real stoked about the sacred breath. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, people said, though, like, you wake up and you do that crazy routine and then

you take this wild, in my opinion, inhale of weed. There was one guy in the documentary that was like, you don't understand. Like, when you're in that frame of mind and then you get, like, high, like, right after that, you feel like you're tripping balls. Oh, I'm sure. He was like... I felt like I was on LSD. I didn't feel like I was high from, like, weed.

Because it's like a mixture of... just like adrenaline and like all the dopamine and the all the things yeah and then you're like your body's trying to like chill out from yeah but it's it can't it's all different things just you just start tripping and then you go right into like morning meditation and like some crazy shit and like chanting and like all the wild stuff so it's it's a lot but everybody seemed happy at the motherhouse for the most part but there were some run-ins with the police from time to time because a lot of underage girls were on that property and a lot of them had fathers and mothers that were like, hey, I think there were the source family and like,

we're not too cool with that. Yeah. So the police were like, yeah, you're going to be in some serious hot water if this keeps happening. Like you got to get, you got to send these girls home. Yeah. You can't, you can do what you want, but you can't do what you want unless they're 18. With underage children. Precisely. Totally fine, guys. Father has a solution. It's not to tell them all that they need to go home, however. He just married off all the underage girls to older boys in the community. So it's legal because they're married. He is so gross. He's fucking disgusting. He's so fucking foul. He's disgusting. Crisis averted though, am I right? Yeah, totally. So when this thing happened, a couple, or I don't know how many in general, but like some of the family members were

concerned that this might be a catalyst to more power moves in the future. This might be a cult. So I think that's when people started like kind of realizing, but it wasn't a big awakening. I think it was just like some people left, but it was like not a very big amount. So those people, they were on to something because sure enough, there were more power moves to be made. What is it? What is it? Why is it one of the first things that a cult leader does when he starts to realize all the power he has, especially over the women connected to him? What does he do? He says, plural marriage rules. Of course, always. I love plural marriage. It's just the first thing. Always. Always. Always. So father.

playbook. Honestly. Honestly. Try something new. Father goes to Robin or mother a home one day and he says to her, you know, I'm thinking of taking more wives and she's like, hey, what about commandment number six where like the woman and his

the woman and her husband are one and you should do nothing to come in between that? And he was like, yeah, I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I don't count. I don't count. I'm the earthly spiritual father. Of course. Of course. So she said he's sitting there talking to her about this and her blood is boiling because she's like, I didn't sign up for this. Well, that's the problem. It's like if you guys went into this relationship and you were like,

we are going to have multiple wives and husbands, whatever it is that you want to do, like, that's fine. You just have to be, as long as you are both consenting to it and our habits and everything is only up and up on that situation, whatever, do what you want to do. Nobody gives shit. I mean, I don't. And but it's like when you enter into a marriage and then like, years into it, you're like, oh, I think I'm going to marry a few more gals. It's like, no, I didn't enter into this. And if I, if she's not cool with it, it's like, that's not cool, man, then you bye. Because she's, her whole thing, she was like, those were not the vows we took. No, that's the thing. We took vows to, for each other. Yeah. And so she said he's like sitting there explaining

that she's getting pissed. And he's like, what do you think? And she tells him, I think you're a dirty old man on a lust trip. That's what I think. Robin. She literally said that. But she's absolutely crushed and she feels cheated and lied to. And she goes through this like really terrible period where she's just in front of everybody like crumbling, you know, like it's awful. And she's trying to figure out if she should leave, but she's also like, I don't know where I'm going to go. How am I going to explain this to my family? Can I even divorce him? Like, I love him. I love the people here. It's awful. Data, the average home break-in lasts between eight and ten minutes. That terrifies me to my very core. And that is exactly why you need a home security system that responds

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Customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes at simplysafe.com slash morbid. Go today and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Go to simplysafe.com slash morbid. There is no safe like Simplysafe. So she stays. And eventually father goes on to take 13 wives in total. 13 wives in total. And when that started happening, there was like another shift and some more people left the family because they were like, what about Commandments? Yeah, like what the fuck, dude. So. And it's like that is the hallmark of a cults. The hallmark. The hallmark. It's like suddenly. No, no, no. We haven't got to the full homework yet. That's like, that's like the hall. And then the mark is, because this is the thing. I'm like so hyped that I'm stuttering. It would have been one thing if he was pairing up with women of age. And deciding to make them his second third, four.

and 13th wife. He's taking on underage girls as wives. Yeah, he's a disgusting foul beast. Yeah. And one of them in the documentary, she said when she was asked to become his wife, she was only just about to turn 17. Oh my God. You're a 16 year old and this man's like 50 at this point. Ew. Or like in his late 40s. That's not okay. No. That's not okay. Nope. So people were like, yeah, like you're bringing underage girls and marrying them. Like we're out. But there were still people that stuck around, of course. So, and then father, he starts taking his wives out. He parades them around town. They're dressed. Any picture you see of them, they're all dressed like very glamorous hippies. Like, it was very Hollywood. Yeah. And they're just outspreading the good word, you know. But really,

things were not going so well at the motherhouse, as we could very much tell now. And also, because this was the time that all the Manson family trials were going on. And obviously, we know how public that was and how fucking crazy it got. Yeah. So the public gets very, very nervous about cult activity in general. And most of the neighbors close by to the source family motherhouse were like, yeah, I don't really want 140 cult members living so close by because like I do feel like I might get murdered about that. Yeah. So they start calling the landlord of the home and urging her to get them out of there. So when the lease is up at the motherhouse, father was told that the property was actually being sold and they were not going to be able to renew the lease. Like, you got to get out of here. Yeah. I also

I also wonder if she said anything to him. Like, I also don't remember you adding 139 other people's names to this lease. I don't know if that was talked about. But now, instead of finding another mansion to live in, because remember, the Source Family restaurants still exists and is doing very well by all accounts. Like, he has money. That's so wild. He's driving around with fucking Rolls-Royce. I'm looking at pictures of this while you're talking. Isn't it crazy? Yeah, it's wild. So the Source family had to move into a much smaller home at this point. This home had three bedrooms and three bathrooms, which would have been great for like a small family, but not very ideal for the large source family. They moved into this house in 1973. Only three years were spent in the

original mother house, and that's how much had changed. Oh, wow. So this house was named the father house. And I just feel like, I don't know if I'm just in a place of deep and like reflection, but isn't it so interesting how it started off with the mother house? And it had some people, people had this pure idea going into it of how beautiful this was going to be. And then slowly it starts to fade out and they can't stay at the mother house. And the next place is the father house. The father house. So when you, that's the thing.

And like you think about the first house being named the mother house. You think of who Robin is. Yeah. And it makes sense that things started off beautifully. And then we move on to the father house. And let me tell you, it was a steady fucking decline once they got into the father house. In the father house, the family started. doing jam band sessions and father would sing you could call it that um and the band the band would

i played some of it for you yeah you did it's a lot you are correct the band would play this like really far out psychedelic music personally i love the music of it the singing not so much um today their records their recording excuse me actually are like really heavily sought after by like collectors that makes and they're really hard to come by i guess yeah i like really want one I just want to have that. I just want it. I want it. So the band started like traveling together.

And of course, father is the front man. And they're going to different high schools and colleges to play their music, which is a very pointed exercise. I was going to say, of course. You're trying to spread the message to young people to join the family. And father, he would do these performances and, you know, he's singing on stage. And then like, you know how like the singer talks to you in the middle of it. Yeah. He'd go into these spills and he'd be like, call.

join us. Have a morning meditation. Find out what the source family is all about. Youth of America. No thank you. It was wild. No thank you. So he's like bringing all these people in. And all in all, they actually ended up recording over 65 albums. And I don't know if it was the music or perhaps some drug use that led to what happened next. I'm sure maybe was a combination of the two. But around this time, Father got really into sex matters. Hmm. You did hear that correctly, sex magic. Blood sugar sex magic. That's a red hot chili peppers album. Correct. There you go. You had to participate, though, in the sex magic ceremonies that were being held. No, thank you. It was not, what's the thing? It was not a voluntary thing. Yeah, it was mandatory. You had to go. And the goal, like, you had to go because the goal was to bring everybody's consciousness to a higher level and to, quote, unquote, bond together on a molecular level. No, thank you.

Like, there's some people that I just don't want to be bonded to molecularly. Oh, there's a whole host of people that I don't want to be bonded to in any way. There's a plethora of people that I don't want to be bonded to molecularly. They believed that after these sex magic sessions, the energy that you created during the ceremony would lead you to possessing some kind of magic afterward that you could then use in the world to probably, like, cultify things even more. We could just do spin class together and create a lot of energy. It started off with morning meditation.

Was it wild morning meditation? For sure. But like, just leave it there. Yeah. Just gather. Yeah. Don't make people do sex magic if they don't want to. If you want to do sex magic, that's great.

I all means. But like, don't make underage girls participate. No, don't make anyone participate in any kind of sexual magic. Called abuse. Yeah. And actually, it's sexual abuse. Yeah. Oh, excuse me, I skipped a line.

At this point, people really started to believe. that father was God. He was not the son of God anymore. He was God himself. Okay. So people had left in the past, like I said, this was when there was a big exit of members from the family. Good.

Because they were like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this alongside children. I'm good. Like, this was not what I signed up for. Not at all. So they left, but again, still plenty of people that stuck around. Those who did stick around did not realize that they were. we're nearing the end of this journey with father,

the end of this earthly spiritual journey. Oh, boy. So he's going out into town, like I said, more often in his rolls Royce, with a whole slew on both arms of women all around him. This is just like, he's going out into public being like, hi, I'm a fucking cold eater, basically. Yeah, he's like, I have this gaggle of women.

Yeah. And the whispers about the family become louder, and the gossip about them is spreading pretty much all around California and probably Arizona, too. And there were also still parents looking for their children who had joined the source family. and there were so many other illegal things going on that the city was worried about. Yeah.

It wasn't long before the police came knocking again. They were investigating kind of on the low. I think they were trying to build a case to prove that this was not okay. Yeah. And they were trying to prove that the family was harboring runaway, juveniles. They were violating labor laws. They were keeping a place where minors were sheltered without a license. Like, that's all illegal.

And eventually, child services got involved and started their own investment. investigation because they're having children within this family now, and they don't believe in modern medicine. Ooh. Yeah. There were also building inspectors that started coming out and ensuring that, like, the living conditions were up to code. So father sees what's going on here. Oh, yeah. It's closing in.

Yeah. And for obvious reasons, he's not a fan of the sudden interest in his family. No. And he starts talking about what all cult leaders talk about when they get desperate. Say it with me. Armageddon. I was going to say the end of the world, so we're close. That's the next word, the end of times.

Nuclear wars between nations. It's all coming. Oh, it's all coming. Just all the things that nightmares are made of. And he decides abruptly, we're selling the restaurant. We got to get out of here. Oh, no. So the restaurant, like I said, it was doing incredibly well.

Just to tell you how well it was doing, it was bringing in a reported $300,000 a year back then. Wow. I think I forgot to do the conversion on that one. It's a lot. Yeah, math. But he decides to sell the restaurant. and he says we're moving to Hawaii.

Oh. Yes. My brief land. I was going to say. I really was born there. So they used the money that they got to sell the source to fund their trip to also buy a large boat. Essentially, it was like a really big boat.

I don't know what classifies a yacht, but it was big. And they also got an airplane. Wow. Because their plan was to live off the land in Kauai and make their living as fisher people. And the airplane was so that they could spot the fish. Oh, yeah. I don't know if like every beginning fisher people take that route, but okay. Also, they wanted to open a spa. Okay. Yeah, obviously. Yep, yeah. So the only problem is that once they got there, uh, everyone on the island was like, get the fuck out of here. We don't want this here. They were like, do not disrupt our existence up here. At this point, there were already other kind of like cult like things and people settling on the island that they don't want. They were like, do not disrupt our existence up here. At this point, there were already other kind of like cult like things and people settling on the island that they were.

didn't want there. Like Taylor Camp had moved in on that island before and they were like, yeah, we're done with this. Like, we're not going to keep TV. We've had our fill of cults. We don't need anymore. Yeah, we're set. They were just not into it.

And nobody would hire anybody on the source family at all. They weren't able to get jobs. And the locals were especially worried that this Manson-like family had just settled on their island. Yeah. So members of the family, they said later on that people started shooting toward the home that they had set up. And police were intimidated.

them, like tailing them wherever they went. Basically, they were trying to chase them off the island. Yeah, of course. But it's like there's kids in there. Exactly. Yeah, you got to think of that. So father was incredibly stressed about this whole thing. And he tried to defend the family by stationing men at different points throughout their camp. But there were men that had never shot guns before. They're like, I don't know how to do this. Like, what are you talking about? It all becomes way too much. So one day, during morning meditation, there was a bowl passed around of beautiful magic mushrooms. And everybody is on trumes and they decide to go for a nature walk. Oh, no.

And on this walk, Father says to them, I got to tell you something. I'm not God. I don't have any power. And I don't know what the fuck we're going to do. He told them that their entire belief system that he has sold them for years is complete bullshit while they were all tripping balls on mushroom. But they were like, no. you are the earthly spiritual father and he's like no you got to listen to me i'm not i'm not i don't know what's happening i'll show you my social security card it does not say god i am not gone i'm literally a man

named jim jim baker i'm jim just jim like not even jim from the office just jim i am not jim helpert i am jim just jim if your name is jim sorry that we just like did that no we love a wonderful name i love the name james i mean come on yeah so he he They're like, no, Yahawa, Father, you are God, absolutely. And shortly after that day, there was another regularly scheduled morning meditation. This day was August 25th, 1975, and it had only been about six years of this cult. And father said to the family, I feel like going flying today. And they said, what?

What he really meant was that he wanted to try hang gliding. But that was something that he had never done before. and all of his wives were like, I would prefer if you didn't try to learn how to fly in the state that you're currently in, maybe we could take a couple lessons first. And one of the main wives at this point, I think she was kind of like the headwife, was Makushla.

And she was wearing black that morning. And she said she never wore black. She usually always wore white. And when she came down for morning meditation, father told her that she was dressed appropriately. And there's a recording of this morning meditation. It's actually so haunting the documentary. Hyping up docks.

Hyping it up. Hyping it up. And so he says to her like, oh, you're dressed so appropriately. And she screams in response. And you can hear her scream. And she said, I don't know why I did that. It was just there was this certain energy in the air. And it was like off.

And my old, that was like a release. Okay. So she was like, I don't know. Something didn't feel right. But we had, we wanted to do as father said. We still thought he was the earthly spiritual father. And if he wants to climb up a mountain and hang glom. off of it, then so be it. Yeah. Now, looking back, everybody agreed that it was incredibly windy that day.

The weather just seemed to be perfect for hang gliding. I think you need wind for that. But there was still like this weird energy in the air. And as they climb the mountain, they pass this woman who's like on a hike, she's just living her life. And father speaks in Latin to her. And in English, the translation was, we who are about to die today, salute you. Oh. So they make it to the top of the mountain. And and there's this huge gust of wind just as father gets launched off the side of the cliff. But as soon as that wind came, it fucking went. And he just ended up falling. Like, I don't even know how many, many, many, many, many feet crashed on the ground below.

So everybody makes their way down to him. He's still alive. He did not die on impact. And they're like, what can we, like, what do we do? And he just keeps telling them. And there is recordings of this because I forget her name. If you watch the documentary, you'll know it. But there was this one woman who was like the journalist of the, or not, like, she took all the pictures and like all the videos of everything.

Like there's like a home birth even. But just be warned you will see the entire thing. So if you don't want to see that, the fast word. But he keeps telling them transmute the pain, transmute the pain. Transmute the pain. Like make it like move the shift the energy. Yeah. Bring it somewhere. Bring my kundalini back to normal.

Yeah. So at one point, someone says, like, I think we don't really have another option. Like, we should go to the hospital. Yeah, because we don't know how to actually transmute plane. Like, you just fell from the sky, sir. You also literally told us that you're not God, so like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do if you're not God because I'm simply Mukshla. Yeah, I do not know. But then, so somebody was like, I think we should go to the hospital. But like I said, hospitals in modern medicine were against their belief system. In fact, I think one of the reason, one of the main reasons why CPS had shown up was because a member had left in the past because his young son, like he was like a toddler, almost died of an ear infection because they were trying to like shine all these little different color.

lights on him and stuff, but you need antibiotics. Yeah, an infection will kill you. It certainly will. Just like the way it is. They wouldn't give him medicine so that his dad was like, we're out. So they were like, no, we can't go to the hospital. They decide against the hospital visit. And they all carry- He fell out of the sky. Straight up fell out of the sky. And they're like, no. So they all carry father back to the house. And he, it's unclear. Some sources say he like survived for like a couple more days. Others say only hours. I saw five days and then I saw nine hours. He ends up dying. And some sources say that he had no broken bones, no fractures, no nothing. He just died.

Others say that he broke his back that day, which I'm going to go ahead and believe those ones. Yeah, his body simply couldn't handle the amount of pain he was in and he died. And I'm sure, and at least in my opinion, and I think you would probably share the same belief, he probably had some internal bleeding after falling that far and that hard. And if he did have some. something that an infection can happen. Yeah.

You don't get it treated. Exactly. So he passes away. And shortly after father passes, there was this really strange phenomenon, which this happened. It is kind of crazy. A new star, like a Nova, appeared in the sky over Hawaii. It's like literally reported on it.

I found a newspaper article about it. And the members of the family took this as a sign that father in his energy had simply shifted into that star. You can believe what you want. I can tell you what I believe. A star was born. A star was born in that he's an asshole. Uh-huh.

He's a murderer. He's like, yeah, he's gross. He, and he did not turn into that wonderful star over Hawaii. That did not happen. Yeah, I don't really want to believe that Jim Baker is shining over my birthland personally. He's not. So you don't have to worry about it. Yeah.

Because he's not. No. I can tell you with 100% certainty, I'm here to break the news, breaking news, bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo. Nope, it was just a star. Boop, bo, bo, bo, boop, boop, not him. Not him. A star was not born.

No, or it was, but it wasn't gym. So that happened, and that just, like, solid. Like, you imagine that happening in your article, and you think all this is real. So his body was later cremated. Cremat. His body was later cremated, and his ashes were spread along a beach in Hawaii. It literally says a beach. I'm more hoping the water.

Yeah, I hope it's not actually. Can you not just, like, throw that in the sand, but like, okay. But cool. Now, the family went on to stay together for about two more. years. And Makushla was like the head of the family for a while, but it slowly started to fade apart. Yeah. And some people actually went on to keep their Aquarian names and lived off the grid. Like, there was people at the end of the documentary that were like, I still fully believe in his teachings. I practice them to this day. And, you know, all the power to them as long as you're not involving

underage children. Other people just moved on completely. There was one guy that ended up, like, founding some corporation that made him a millionaire. Oh, right. Wild. But, you know, that's the source family. Wow. And at the end of it, one thing is for sure, Jim Baker was one wild fucking cult leader. Yeah. Like call it like you see it. That's a cult. He was a cult leader. Oh, yes. Fucking crazy. That was a wild ride. A wild ride. Indeed. That ended with a star being born. Isn't that crazy? And I think I had said it before to put it in your back pocket. He had broken his back. He had broken his back previously. So isn't that kind of crazy that that's how he died? Yeah. He was like,

I was done with judo and like after that match, but then he ends up going on and killing a man and he's like with judo. Wow. Maybe that I don't know. Maybe that I don't know. You know, you believed in karma, Jim. I know, that's is that kind of weird? Is that kind of weird? What am I supposed, what sound was I supposed to make?

I don't remember. I forget what I said. People are yelling it at you. Yeah, they are and I'm sorry about it. I think it was that. I think it was a Yeah, that's what it was. Cuckoo nuts bananas. Wow. Yeah, we hadn't done a cult in a while, so I figured I'd bring you a gnarly one. You know what?

Your friend was 100% right when she said that you probably would have joined this movie. Yeah, it's true. I would have left when things got weird in the beginning. Like, I would have left, like, probably really early on. But you would have been there. I do love a yummy salad, and I do love, like, natural holistic ideals and meditative. and stuff like that. So you love a hippie moment.

I just, I do, but I also don't want to share my possessions. No. Like, that would be, I think that would be when you dip. Yeah, I'd be like you can get fun. Yeah. This is mine. This is mine.

I'm an only child, kind of. So people are like, what? I know, that just threw everybody into a Libyan. Is she your fucking cousin? Is she your sister? You're an only child, how? Don't worry about it. It's fine.

We hope you keep listening. And we hope you. Keep it. Weird. But that's everything you're joining. Call. Don't call. Don't do that.

Don't cult. Don't cult.