Morbid - Stars Over Whitechapel With Special Guest Aliza Kelly

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Today we are joined by our friend Aliza Kelly, host of Horoscope Weekly: Astrology with Aliza Kelly, to take a cosmic deep dive into one of history’s most chilling mysteries: The Whitechapel Murders.We explore what the stars might reveal about the shadowy figure who terrorized Victorian London. Could astrology shed light on the motive of the crimes? The psychology of the killer? Or even help narrow down which of the many suspects might have fit the Ripper’s celestial profile?From the eerie fog of Whitechapel to the astrological markers seen repeated in the charts of key figures in this prolific case, this episode blends true crime and the metaphysical in a way only Morbid and Aliza can. Check out Aliza's show on Mondays & Wednesdays by clicking HERE! Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. I'm Alisa. And this is a very special morbid. Heyo. Heyo. We have Elisa Kelly on the podcast again. Yay.

Yay. So excited for you to be here. So excited to be here with you both. It is always a treat when you're here. We always have so much fun. It is always so fascinating. We have pizza. I was just going to say.

We're having a pizza party. We have pizza. We have buffalo dip somewhere that we didn't even take out yet. Yeah, we're going to visit that after. Okay, okay. You guys might remember, Elisa was on the show. We did Stars Over Salem. And Aliza gave us all of the insights on everybody's charts that was involved in that whole hysteria.

We went deep into it. Go revisit that episode because it's fascinating. We were just like jaws on the floor the whole time. We just re-listen to some of that. Yeah. That was a good episode. It was so fun. And today we're going to be doing Stars over Whitechapel.

Which is Elena's Magnum Open. Yeah, this is... And I've been waiting. Yes. Yes. Yep. And as I was saying before we started here, I think that this might be the thing that solves it. I think so did be.

It's not working from all the other systems, right? It's been... It's like 140 years. Yeah. Almost, right? Exactly. And that's the thing, because a lot of people think that they've figured this out. A lot of people think that this has been solved.

Insert, Elena's rant. Yeah. I was going to say. And the thing is, I don't, if you didn't listen to our episode with Tobias Forge, our very first one. Yeah. No, our second one. Our most recent one where we talked about skeleta. I go on a pretty sizable rant about why they did not figure out who Jack the Ripper is with this quote unquote DNA. So what we're going to do right now is I'm going to insert, I'm not going to, Mikey's going to insert that clip of me explaining why the DNA is not solving this case. It is not solved. It is not Aaron Kuzminski. I don't believe it at least. So here's the rant just to remind you guys. So here's the thing.

I don't think they have found Jack the Ripper. Not one part of me thinks it, in fact. There's many reasons for that. The fact that this has been a thing that comes around every few years is a big red flag to me, and it's the same person bringing it around every few years and not really updating any of the actual info. So that shawl that they're claiming they have this DNA from is a shawl that they're claiming

was found at Catherine Eddo's crime scene. One, they have no way of knowing that. The only way of knowing that would be if it was among the exhaustive list of her items that were found on and around her at the crime scene that is well documented. And it is nowhere. There is nowhere that says there is like an eight foot long, really expensive shawl that might actually even be a table runner found all. on her person. Nowhere. So if we don't have that, then how do we know that this thing is hers and how do we

know that it was found at the crime scene? Here's your answer. We don't. So there's a big, giant hole of doubt that has already been thrust through this entire thing. I don't think it was found at the crime scene. I think she would have sold it at one point. I don't think she would have held on to that kind of shawl. I mean, there's all kinds of stories of her selling, you know, shoes earlier in the day selling anything that was on her. It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't buy that one at all. Furthermore, the story of this whole thing

is that Sergeant Amos Simpson was the one who was said to have taken this shawl from the crime scene, a supposed blood-soaked shawl he took from the crime scene. One, that would have been an immense risk to do that. And two, I think we all need to remember what I said a thousand times during our Jack the Ripper series. We can't really comprehend how dark these crime scenes were.

There was no light. We're going by candlelight. You're telling me that this man plucked a blood-soaked shawl from a crime scene and just brought it home for his wife. I don't buy that. Also, there's the fact that Amos Simpson was a metro cop. He was a metropolitan police officer. Maitre Square where Catherine Edo's was found,

that is London PD jurisdiction. He has no business being there. and even if he is there, he has no business at that crime scene. So that gives me pause. The DNA. The DNA, we don't even know what it is. It might be blood. It might be semen.

They have no definitive answer for that. So that 100% match, I don't believe. They don't even know what the actual DNA source is for this. And also, there is no evidence of him leaving semen at scenes. Of course he can depart from his pattern. Of course that's happened before. I am fully willing to admit that

and I'm willing to accept that if there's other pieces of evidence along with it. But the fact that he never did this and there was never evidence of any classic sexual assault or rape at any of these scenes, it was really violence and mutilation. It doesn't really fit with the pattern. And once again, I'm willing to admit

that a pattern can be broken if you give me other evidence to tell me that that's so, I just don't see it here. The DNA itself, it's mitochondrial DNA. That's what they're not telling you in any of these things. This is not straight up DNA. This is mitochondrial DNA. It can eliminate a suspect, but it cannot identify a suspect absolute. Anyone in the maternal line of this DNA match can also be the person. This can be thousands of people. Thousands of people in London can match this DNA. So that's not good enough for me. That's not identifying. That is, you can eliminate. And also, just to put a pin on this, the researcher who has put this forward is

Russell Edwards. He doesn't have a track record that I'm willing to follow here, really. I will of course give benefit of the doubt if he can provide more evidence. But he also claimed once, and so did his team, that they found a victim of Ian Brady and Myra Henley that has been missing for decades and decades, Keith Bennett. And his family has been looking for his body on those moors forever and hoping to find his body on those moors. And it was really fucked up that his team basically announced on social media that they had found Keith Bennett and they hadn't. So that upsets me. That makes me question it. Of course, one massive monumental mistake doesn't mean that you can never do anything good in your life. So if he can provide more evidence that

says this is a hundred percent DNA match, which I don't believe he can, that I'm willing to listen to it. But no, Aaron Kuzminski is not Jack the Ripper. So that's why. In conclusion, I need the copy and paste file. I need to also just like insert the rant in various other audio moments. We'll play it for you after this because I was pretty hyped up during that. Like, let me explain. Rightfully so.

It makes sense. you said makes sense. Yeah, because I think it's recently, like, surfaced again and recent. I'm pretty sure, like, Australia heard about it recently. I think that this random news station in Australia reported that it's been solved. And so it's gone around TikTok all over the place. I'm getting tagged in it, which I appreciate so much that you guys tag me in anything Jack the Ripper related. Keep doing that. Love it. Oh, yeah. But I figured I should probably let you know that because everyone's like, what do you think about it. I'm like, let me tell you what I think about it. Well, this is very interesting because it's reminding me of one of the astrology

phenomenons that comes up periodically, which is that there's always, you know, every so often, with some sort of cadence, there's some big expose on, oh, my God, astrology is wrong. Yep. There's, the signs have moved. They are not where they were. Yep. 1500 years ago, like all of these silly astrologers haven't considered the procession of the equinox. And every time I get tagged and there was a big one in the New York Times that came out.

And people are like, well, what do you think of this? And I'm like, it's the same piece. They thought they were like, let me tell you. They just keep from visiting this. They do. And they keep not talking to any astrologers and they keep sort of like regurgitating it. And then the headlines are always breaking news. And that's exactly what it is.

It's not a mix. And it's like, and you get why. that like the headline would be grabbing. Yeah. It's just like, wow, we figured, like, it's clickbait. We've broken this wide open and it's like, whoa. Yeah. So, I mean, I, when I first saw the headlines that were like, DNA has solved Jack the Ripper case, I was like, fuck, yeah, let's go.

Yeah. And then I read it and I said, oh, wait. And then I looked up who did it. And I said, oh, wait. And then. This guy again. Yeah, this guy seen his name before. So just so you guys know, I don't think it's been solved.

I think we, I think we can solve. it tonight. I think we're just going to say. Yes. Personally. Yes. So stay tuned for this. And the next clickbait is Jack the Ripper solved through astrology. Which is real. We just combined the two.

Eat your hat, New York Times. A new article that can go everywhere. It's combining the two bullshit articles. So yeah, this is, I'm really excited to talk about this. Everybody who listens to Borbid knows how obsessed I am with the Jack the Ripper case.

And that I think I officially became a riparologist during our research of it. I think actually one of our listeners, and I don't know if I've mentioned this, sent me a pin that says riparologist. And it's on one of your jackets. And it's on my favorite leather jacket that I wear all the time. So thank you for that if you sent it. Also made, actually, multiple people made you the certificate, right? And emailed them, yes.

I need to print them out and put them up on the wall. Just put them everywhere. Like Harvard, you know, doctorates and everything. Yes. Well, next to your letter. Yeah. The from hell letter. See?

Perfect. We got to display it all. A little spot. Yeah. I love it. Hey, that would give me some motivation. There you go. But yeah.

So we love, this case is just fascinating. It's the, and I'll say it again, it's the number one unsolved case. Unsolved case. I mean, it is. In the world. I mean, it really is. And with so many, there's so many canonical victims for this one. It's so brutal.

The, I mean, the infighting between the police departments. It's. got everything in this case. Yeah, you have it all. You really do. Yeah. So I think what we'll do is we'll probably just, we're going to start going through the five canonical victims, Marianne Polly Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Eddows, and Mary Jane Kelly, which is the crescendo. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's definitely Mary Jane Kelly is considered the last canonical victim. And a lot of people say like they think that it kept going. I don't think it kept going. No, I think we talked about that on our original coverage. Where do you go from there? Where do you go from there? That's the thing.

Yeah, that's it. It makes sense that it would end there. Mm-hmm. You know. Yes. Yeah. Though, depending on who you might have think was Jack the Ripper. That could change. Yes. Okay. I see I'm already excited. I'm already excited for this. Maybe you just change your approach. Okay. Okay. Maybe you switch it up. I like that. Yeah. I like that a lot. You've had enough of that kind of brutality. Now you go into more of a Like a new lens? Yeah. Okay.

Maybe, maybe. Try something new. Try something new. See, maybe this is it. Maybe astrology is going to solve this. I mean, it's a different angle. It's a different angle. It's a different angle.

I don't see it come from this angle a lot. It's true. If we're going to pretend mitochondrial DNA is solving this, then why not astrology is more definitive for identifying things than mitochondrial DNA is. I think so. There you go. go. All right. So who are we going to start with? So let's start with Mary Ann Nichols, Polly Nichols. Our first canonical victim. So I should note, you know, and this is similar to

what we had also acknowledged with Salem is that we don't have a lot of times. Right. Yeah. And in astrology, the best way to calculate a birth chart is date time and location. So we are missing that very critical time piece, which is going to tell us rising signs. And It's going to show us which houses. All of these different planets fall in. The houses show us sort of the themes of life. They also can help us understand timing. So we're missing that piece.

So in the majority of the birth charts that we're going to pull, unless we had a very specific hour for something, we're going to look at the planets and the relationships that the planets are making. We're not going to be able to discern the rising sign from these. That makes sense. Yeah. So Mary Ann Nichols. was born August 26, 1845 in London, England. She is, was. Is. Is. I always say is with a chart

because the chart is still living. Yeah. I just listened to the episode where you went over that and I was like that is, I love that concept so much. Yeah. Like it goes on. And another really interesting thing is that, and we'll probably see this in some of our, in some of these characters is today is that when somebody comes back into the zeitgeist or the collective psyche, their chart is being activated. Right. So we'll often see that like even albums that are released after an artist's death or something, you'll look and you'll be like, oh, they're having their third or fourth Saturn return at that time.

That's so cool. Like their chart is still being activated and still experiencing the passage of time and energy to it. That's so wild. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's really beautiful also. I love it. It is really beautiful. It's a really cool way of exploring legacy. And a lot of these, you know, Marianne Nichols, Polly Nichols, as the first person who was murdered in the canonical 5, the first victim of this, there are so many interesting things that I say this thing called Tank, which means there are no coincidences. I love that. And this is a case of Tank. Okay.

So she was is a Virgo sun and a Gemini moon. So these are two mercurial ruled placements. Both Virgo and Gemini report to the planet Mercury, which is communication, its language, it's storytelling, it's our understanding of things. So, you know, not knowing all of her chart without that time of birth, what we can sort of discern here, is that she was smart. She was interested in things. She was curious. She was somebody who also was very discerning. She was, she had this sort of extrovert, introvert in and out kind of quality to her where she could be sort of like very blabbermouty, say the wrong thing at the very wrong time, but then also could pull it back and be like, wait, but I have to get my life

together. I got to get organized. So there was this sort of like back and forth quality. And it was all very much about her communication and being understood. Now, the reason that this is incredibly fascinating is because, number one, she's not the only person who is a Virgo sun, Gemini, Moon here. Interesting. Wow. And the other piece of this is that she was murdered when the sun was in Virgo and the moon was in Gemini. Shut up. Whoa. Oh, that's weird. What are the odds? There are no coincidences. It's like what are the odds of that? So she truly establishes this story, not just in her birth chart and who she is, but also in the chart of her death. And the chart of her death is also the chart of the first murder. It's the chart that establishes the Jack the Ripper

story. Wow. So these two, like it's almost like, you know, and this is obviously a little out there for some people, but it's almost like we don't have Jack the Ripper if we didn't have Polly Nichols. Yeah. And it's almost like perhaps there was something about her. And their encounter in particular that set off this killing spree that this person went on. Right. Because how else could it be that this person, I mean, she was murdered just a few days

before her or after her birthday. She was murdered on August 31st, 1888. She was born August 26, just a few days after her 43rd birthday. While she was having her solar return, her birthday and her lunar return, the moon was in her sign. Wow. So very, very interesting to sort of establish and set the scene with this person in this context on this night. That's really interesting. That is fascinating.

Again, just the odds of that. Yes. Don't compute. Yeah. Like, that's astronomical. Something you said too, like when you first started talking about her, that she's a Gemini moon and then a Virgo sun. And you were saying like other people in this case or that and how it's like, I really have to get my life together and like that kind of thing. Something we talked about when we

originally covered the Jack the Ripper case was that so many of these women were out a point in their lives where they were really trying to get their lives together. And they were like just about to get there. So it is interesting that you brought that up. Yeah. And that it's a key theme now in the astrology too, like in their charts. Right. And, And if we see astrology, so like what I love so much about this is that we have her chart and then we have her death chart, but that death chart is also a beginning chart. Her death chart is the beginning of the Jack the Ripper murders. Right.

Right. So it is the end and it's like this passageway, this portal, this threshold happening and ending in a beginning. And it's almost like the qualities that she had, especially in that essence of, like, like kind of stumbling and then picking herself back up and then stumbling and picking herself back up almost is the story of perhaps even the murderer himself. Right? Like maybe there is some mirroring that happens here. Yeah, there's some reflection there's some reflection here because if that was her story, she got murdered under a sky that was very similar to the sky she was born under

that it's almost like the perfect storm right of this person sort of being like, you know what? Fuck it. Yeah. Like, we're doing it. This is what's happening. Wow. It gives me like chills. I know. That really does.

It's so eerie. It's so eerie. Yeah. And it describes Polly as a person, that whole like picking yourself up falling, like her whole life, because we went into it a little on our episode. Her whole life was like trying to pick herself back up. Right. A hundred different times and like something knocking her back down. And it was from like when she was younger.

Yeah. It was just her story. It was just her story. Yeah. Yeah. Another interesting thing is that she was born with Saturn in Aquarius. And on the night of her murder, and during this time, throughout the murders, actually, Saturn is in Leo.

So Aquarius and Leo are opposite signs. So when she was murdered, she was going through her Saturn opposition. And so this is sort of like the flip side of your Saturn return. Okay. This is, Saturn represents responsibilities and rules. it's this very sort of like tough daddy energy. So when you go through the grim reaper. It is your planet.

Yes, it is. And when you go through your Saturn return, there's this sort of reckoning of the rules, right? Like growing up and maturing and becoming who you're supposed to be. Your Saturn opposition is kind of when you're also facing similar circumstances, right? You're sort of like looking at your life and looking at your choices. Not to say this should have been how she had to reconcile it by any means. But, you know, 140 years after these tragedies occurred, we can also sort of think of the fact that we're talking about these people in a destiny, faded, legacies, storied way, which is certainly not the case for so many people who lost their lives in Whitechapel at this time.

Right. These people have, were really important for us continuing to tell their stories as archetypes and as, as, as, as, as, as. symbols of what it was like to live in these conditions at this time and be so sort of like beat down by all of the forces that working against you. Oh, yeah. I mean, when you go into this time period and Whitechapel in particular, it was awful. That's why there were times when we were covering this and Ash was like, oh my God, I got to step out of this for a little dark. It was so dismal and so dreary and gloomy and there was just like, it felt like there was no end in sight to just like the dreariness of it. You know, it was just.

I mean like everyone was struggling just droll everything was dirty and just like dark and everybody was trying to make their way but like there was no way out yeah it's drinking their problems away it's hell it literally is hell and he feels it feels like he swept in here and just became a personification of it essentially right yeah and also you know in in this really weird way we can talk about that now you know from the luxury of these lovely couches, but also recall what it was like to be in those conditions, where there wasn't Polly Nichols getting murdered under the same sun and moon that she was born under, then we wouldn't be talking about it.

We wouldn't be talking about what it was like to live in that time. No, we probably wouldn't even know what it felt like. No, live in Whitechapel at that time or know any of that. Not at all, no. So it really is interesting. So it's a really interesting start. It is. I also want to call out another signature that we're going to see throughout all of this, which is really profound.

And I have goosebumps looking at this, and I hope that I can convey this to you when I share it, which is that during this time, 1888, from 1888 until the early 1890s, we had a very rare astrological occurrence happening, which is that we had a conjunction between Neptune and Plains. Pluto. So just as a, you know, just to sort of, we have not had this since and we will not have it again until almost the year 2400. Wow. Wow. Until the 2390s. Holy shit. So this does not have, this doesn't happen in most people's lifetime. This is significant. Truly. Yeah. This is a very unique thing to happen and to encounter. If this was happening in our lifetime, astrologers would not even know what to do with themselves. Wow. It's so wild. Because Neptune has a cycle an orbit of 165 years, Pluto has an orbit of 248 years. So for them to link up, takes a really, really long time because they are such, these are the two furthest celestial

bodies we track in astrology. Yeah, that makes sense. Neptune represents illusion, delusion, fantasy, it's mystery. It's missed quite literally. It's things dissolving. It's things disappearing. And Pluto is the underworld. It is death. It is big, deep transformation. And Neptune, this misty, elusive, mysterious, eerie sort of like enchanted supernatural energy combined with Pluto's own darkness and heaviness and supernatural. Like, this is whitechap. Yes, it literally set the tone. Yes. Yeah. This is actually, this is like mind-boggling. Especially when you go into like the mystery and the like even just missed. I was just going to say even just a myth.

Oh, you think of. Yeah. When you think of Whitechapel, you just think of a haze. You just think of a hazey, hazy. Yes. And dark. Dark. Yep.

Like full of death and full of pain and full of like struggling and mystery. It's like and then we're still here talking about. And that's the enduring. Yes. That is like the legacy of it. Right. And then Pluto, just death. Death.

Yes. Mystery, haze, death. Yes. Yes. Like, holy shit. That's actually, that's actually insane. It's insane. It's wild. And so, like, we really need to just point out how insane it is that we'll never experience that. We never have, and like most people won't. But that's crazy to me that it's not going to happen again for that long. It's not going to happen again, you know, for many, many, many versions of our grandchildren. Like, it's such a specific circumstance. And this case has that energy. That one of a kind thing to it because it's like we've seen so many awful cases. since then, obviously. But this one is stuck in everyone's mind as like the most fascinating one,

the most enduring one, the most brutal one, the one that everybody just like upset. Like it becomes everybody's hyperfixation. It's like, but there's many more that are also brutal cases. Why is this the one? You know what it is? I feel like part of this being the one is that it feels like lore. It feels like legend. It does. And I feel like that's like the Neptune role. it all. The Neptune. And there's also something, yeah, there's something paranormal about it. Yeah. Which is very Pluto. Like one of the things, that was one of the theories people had was, was this a vampire? Was this a ghost? Was this somebody supernatural? Even Mikey. Mikey thinks it's a vampire. He said, I do. But it was one of those things people talked about. He has to be a ghost. How can he get in there and get out there? Yeah. So quickly. Like how is he never seen by anybody? Like it has a paranormal aspect to it. Absolutely does. Another thing that's interesting about this is that Neptune represents the camera. It represents the lens. And one of the things in my research around this that I kept having to be jump scared by at 2 o'clock in the morning are the photos of these people. The photos, the autopsy photos, the crime scene photo of Mary Jane Kelly. I saw those in high school for the first time and those will remain in your brain forever once you see them. Exactly. And that is Neptune, the camera lens, and then Pluto, the death and the legacy and that sort of joining forces. And I think that is one of the reasons also that this case is so enduring.

Yeah. Is that we have just enough technology and documentation to be able to not just say like, and it was brutal, but be like, even by our like overexposed video game standards. This is fucked up. Yeah, like when you describe the Mary Jane Kelly crime scene, your mind can't even conjure what that photo is going to show you. Because that photo, you're like, that's a person in that bed? Yeah. Like it's, and you describe it, you know that he disfigured her to the point of not even knowing that that's a person on the bed. And you can describe it as much as you want, but that picture will haunt you for the rest

of your life if you look at it. Yeah. And like you said, it's just enough technology that we got those photos. I was just going to say, like, there's some of the first crime seen photos we have. Exactly. In existence. Yes. Exactly. So this was occurring in the sign of Gemini, which is also very interesting. Your back. That happened with the Salem Witch trials too. And I think that we might have talked about way back then a year ago how Uranus is moving into Gemini. We're even closer to that now than we were then. But I think what's interesting about that

is, you know, we talk about charts being living and breathing entities. And we have this Neptune Pluto conjunction in early degrees of Gemini, which is where Uranus is going. Uranus is often considered the planet. Uranus's innovation, breakthroughs, discoveries, shocking things. It's also often considered the planet of astrology. So I think we are going to solve it through astrology. We're going to do it. Boom. That is my thesis. Yes. I'm But even for those who push back and say, but what about the, what about the DNA? What about the science?

It's wrong. Where is this? To the rant. Some things we need the ancient texts for. Yes. And we don't have the right DNA here. No, we don't. We don't have that.

So we got to move. We got to the adjacent thing here. Yes. Yes. We got to keep pivoting. Yeah. And hey, maybe we can use the astrology to confirm the mitochondrial DNA because that's all it's used for. There you go. It's not used to identify. I say it again. But maybe this is what it's

going to confirm what I say that that's not. Which is May. That Erick Mosmansky is not the killer. There's a few more things that I want to just mention because this chart is, again, the birth chart of these murders, right? So this is maybe the most important chart that we have in all of them, right? Her death chart, our beginning of a story chart. So Jupiter was in Scorpio during this time. It was in its final degrees of Scorpio. At this time of her death, it was at 28 degrees. Mars, the planet that is often considered the most violent planet is also in Scorpio. Mars is like war. Yeah, I was going to say, destruction. Yeah. There's, yeah, there's like a, also a knife is one of the images associated with Mars. Like it is truly,

it's like a blade, a weapon is one of its associations. Okay. Mars and Jupiter conjunct both in Scorpio, Mars at 22 degrees, Jupiter at 28 degrees. Also, just to sort of like contextualize Jupiter and Scorpio, Jupiter is the planet of expansion. It enhances whatever it is. And Scorpio is associated with the sort of like our own shadow, our own darkness. Yeah. So, My working theory, right, is that there's something around Polly Nichols that triggers this impulse in our murderer, right? Okay. And that is triggered by Jupiter in Scorpio, conjunct Mars in Scorpio. It's just like rage energy. Yes.

Yeah. And we're going to. Well, she was a real like, she stood her ground. Yeah. Like Polly Nichols was like not taking shit. Right. Yes. So maybe that was one of the things that.

Well, also, something that all, every single victim has in common is that they all had their throat slashed, right? They all couldn't talk. Yeah, they took away the voice right away. And one of the things that is defining about her as a Virgo son, Gemini Moon, is her communication. I was just going to say, yeah. And that is also embedded in this chart as a son in Virgo and a Gemini moon. And then also with that Neptune, Pluto, Gemini, signature. So something that I, I then proceeded to do for the rest of these, especially for our suspects, is to look to see where is that conjunction activating their chart. Okay.

Because to me, like, that's a really interesting piece of information. Definitely. It's a consistent thing. Exactly. And it's something that a lot of people talked about because nobody heard a lot during this. And it's, you know, this was in the middle of the night. You're going to hear someone scream, you know, like it's pretty quiet out there. No one would hear a lot of things.

And it's because he would immediately slash the throat. He would immediately silence them from behind or whatever he would do. So it's like that really was his first priority. First priority. And that silencing to me, especially if we think of this triggering him somehow, her triggering him, this energy triggering him is like maybe that's a clue. Yeah. Is something about like speech and vocalization. He doesn't want to hear it.

He doesn't want to hear it. Right. Doesn't want to. And maybe he was silenced, right? Like maybe there is some sort of like a deep psychological trigger that has driven him to this point of insanity of like no one's talking. Yeah. I don't want to hear you.

I don't want to hear it. Yeah. That could easily be like, and we could go right back to like the trope of the overbearing, you know, mother. It was literally right in my head. Maybe he had a mother who, you know. Never stopped. That's interesting because there are some suspects with big mommy issues. Big mommy issues.

Big mommy energy. And you think about, like, these are like sex motivated crimes. Oh, yeah. Sex workers. I wouldn't be surprised if he had an edipus of it all. Exactly. I feel like he could have like an Ed Gein type mom figure that was kind of overbearing. Overly, possibly over religious, possibly overbearing about like sexuality.

Shamed him about it. Something shaming. Like it feels like that's part of or was constantly talking about women such as our canonical five. who happened to be sex workers. I guarantee you he heard in part of his life horrible things about these kind of women. Yeah. And so he felt some kind of rage against them.

Right. And then being like the little bitch he is. Exactly. Goes to like the people who are the most helpless. Yeah. And decides to do it. Or I mean, maybe his mom was a white chap or that's kind of what I was thinking.

And he was getting revenge. Mm-hmm. You know? Because that also just really lends itself too to the theory that he did have a medical background because this is somebody that maybe came from a situation that wasn't so great. Yeah. You know, like his mom was struggling to get by. Maybe they didn't have a good relationship. He got out of there. And these women reminded him. Yeah, and he wanted to strike back. Yeah. And he hated that. So that's where it came from. Yeah. Yeah. It's possibility. There's all of this like, I just, I think I spend so much time with

this chart because I'm like, this is it. Right. Like, if we're going to find something, it's going to be here, right here in how it started and its origin story. The villain origin story. Literally. Literally. Is this chart. I'm going to, I'll give this to you to add to your collection of things. Oh my.

Oh, my. Oh, my. I'm so, I'm saying. I'll frame it. Yeah, no, it is the villain origin story chart. It's fascinating. It really is. So then we have victim number two.

We have Annie Chapman. Dark Amin. And this was about a month later. Or no, this was not a month later. This is another case of a birthday corresponding. Yeah. There was a lot of them. Yeah, they were quick succession.

I remember when we were talking about it originally, I was like, oh, my God, it's always right around their birthdays. It is. It is, yeah, because this was right in September. So, Annie Chapman was born September 25th, and she was killed September 8th. Yeah. So this was another situation of, this was right after a birthday. This was about to celebrate a birthday. I mean, I don't know who's, like, actually having like a.

Any celebration. Yeah, celebration. Like, who's doing pin the tail on the donkey here. But I am. I love a birthday. But again, but again. killed under a Virgo sun? So she is a Libra sun

with a Virgo moon and she was killed under the exact flip of it. Okay. She was killed under a Virgo sun with a Libra moon. So this is another one of those like very tank, eerie sort of mirroring things that is happening. Like complete opposite. What are the odds?

Yeah. So Annie, a different energy, a different kind of a character astrologically, a different birth chart profile. I mean, similarities. They're born. for sure, you know, in the same types of conditions. They're five years apart. But with her Libra Sun and her Virgo Moon, we're seeing someone who is diplomatic. We're seeing someone who is very actively sort of like trying to, you know, harmonize, make things good, make things better for

herself. She has a Virgo Moon and every Virgo Moon I have ever met is so hard on themselves. Yeah. Every Virgo moon I've ever met is very and could be very self-deprecating. And when I was reading about sort of her circumstances and what was leading up to this night, September 8th when she's murdered, it seems like it was just like one of those like, she's just like can't get a break. No. Can't catch a break.

No, which is such a theme. Such a theme. And this feeling of just like I, in her case, I think that she was. was a little bit more, there was a little more giving up in her situation. I think so. She had, she had kind of become her nickname. Her nickname was Dark Annie. And it was because she drank a lot and she got like pretty gnarly when she drank. And I think she tried to get away from that. And then it sounds like she just kind of leaned into it a little bit. She had lost a lot by the end of her life. And she was very like skilled in a lot of ways. Like she crocheted, I believe. She like did a lot of

like that kind of stuff and she was able to like sell that stuff for a little while and she tried to lean back on that but it just wouldn't work out for something would happen that would knock her off you know the right path or that path and then she would just end up back here so I feel like it happened so many times that it does feel like she started just leaning into the dark Annie yeah kind of thing yeah yeah yeah it you know these sort of signatures in her chart to me it's sort of it it's sad because I get the sense that she really wanted to live a different and better life. She really did. And she was, like, we have some other characters who kind of are just like, no, this is my, this is my vibe. This is my story. Yeah, like, living in it. Honestly, even Polly more, right? Polly is more just like,

eh. It's like here we are. Yeah, here we are. Like, you love me, hate me. It's white. It's white. It's white. Exactly. Here we are to do. It's whitechap. It's a real housewife for Ville. I love that. But with this one, with this person, I think that like she was really sort of at the end of her rope. Yeah, absolutely. She was interestingly, at the time of her death, going through her Jupiter return. She has Jupiter in Scorpio in her chart. That only happens every 12 years. For our lovely listeners, don't think that when you have your Jupiter return, you're going to end up being slain by an unsolved Jack the Ripper. But in her case, you know, again, I'm thinking of it of like why these people, why are these are archetypes? Why are these the people who

are telling the story? Why are these the people that we're still telling their story all of this time later? And for her, like they're, for all of them, there's a legacy piece in this. And I think part of this legacy piece was for her just like, this is the end of the line. Yeah. She, that, she reached the end of the line of many, many decades of, of tragedy and suffering. Yeah. And trying to better it. Yeah. Her Jupiter return being in Scorpio, I feel like is so significant because that's a pretty dark placement for Jupiter, right? It can be. I mean, it's certainly is, you know, something to as a reference point for our Jupiter and Scorpio is that we had Jupiter and Scorpio during, most recently during the Me Too era. So it was sort of during this big reveal of all of the abuses and power dynamics and the way that people were abusing the hierarchy and the systems and taking advantage of women was when the last time that we culturally.

experience Jupiter and Scorpio. So there is a deep correlation to sex and sexuality, to shame, to darkness, to things that we don't talk about. I mean, like Harvey Weinstein is to me, like, and that big exposure around him, ew, is him is Jupiter and Scorpio. He is the essence of Jupiter and Scorpio to me, you know? Oh, okay. So that feels so significant. Yeah, that really does when she died, you know? Absolutely. And her death was an intensified version of what we had experienced for Polly, right? Mm-hmm. She had her throat cut.

Mm-hmm. She had her abdomen opened. Her uterus removed. Intestines placed over her shoulder. Mm-hmm. The removal, what do you think about the removal of the organs? And why couldn't they find them? That's the thing.

Do you think he took them? Yeah, I was going to say, I think he's got trophies. Yeah, he had them because that from hell letter, you know, it's highly, hotly contested of whether that's real or not. But it did come with a piece of a human kidney. And it was tested and it was a human kidney. So who knows it could have been hers? And I think he was probably planning on doing more of that kind of shit with it.

But I think he just ran out of time or he decided it wasn't. He said, you know, like, I can't keep doing this. Or he just thought it was a little too close of a call. That's what I was kind of thinking. Like he'd gone a step too far and he was risking what he was trying to hide. Exactly. Before BTK did it. He didn't want to just like give the disc and be like, no, it's fine.

Yeah, you can't trace me with this, right? I think he kept him. I think he kept him as trophies. Interesting that the intestines were thrown over her shoulder. I always found that really interesting. That does feel. Feels intentional. Yeah.

You don't just whip intestines over someone's shoulder. It's not easy to do. Like, that's, you unwrat it. Like, intestines aren't just, like, willy-nilly in you. You got to, like, take them out and do that. Kind of unravel them. Yeah. that's not by chance was she one of the i remember one of the particular victims really carried like

every article of clothing that they had was she one of those a lot of them did i know catherine eddows was one of those that had a lot of it almost feels like here throw this over your shoulder too while you're on it you know what i mean yeah like that makes sense i think um yeah i think she i mean they all of them had many layers of clothing because it's also freezing because it was like and they just carried everything on them at all times kind of thing. And they would like, you know, collect things as they went. Well, they didn't have a permanent place to stay. Yeah. And they could sell stuff too. Like if you have a lot of layers, you can sell a layer and get some money. Yeah. But yeah, it always seemed to me there was a message there for sure. It was almost like, it was definitely

taunting. Well, I think that that's when for me, I started to have that trigger of like the Black Dahlia is the display. Yeah. It's very theatrical. Which also happened. during Jupiter and Scorpio. Really? Yes. Oh, I just got a full warm moment. That's crazy. I can.

What the coincidence. Not only that, but Saturn was in Leo for both of them too. So Saturn and Jupiter, which are both considered like the head honchos of astrology. It's like the two daddies. I say Jupiter is casino daddy. Yeah. It expands. Yeah, expands.

You go into Vegas with him. He's like dripping and gold. I love. ladies on either arm. And then Saturn is the casino owner in suit, walking around, tapping people out, dealing with the mafia, with whoever it is. Teaching a lesson. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Killing people in the back, right? Like, so you have sort of the external and the internal parts of this system. I love thinking about it like that. Yeah. It's actually really helpful to learning astrology. It really is like that. Yeah. But both of these were in the same placements. And what are the odds of that?

I mean, like, that's significant. There must be a mathematician out there who can quickly generate that for us, but it's very unlikely. It's very rare, right? That's crazy. It only happens a few times a century. It feels significant. Yeah, it does. And they're square.

That's the aspect they're making. So Jupiter and Scorpio, as we said, it's like, you know, there's the shame piece, the exposing, the darkness. Saturn and Leo, Leo is the performative, you know, theatrical sort of look at me. energy. Wants to be in the spotlight. Yeah, to me, at this point, we know that Jack the Ripper wants attention. Oh, yeah. That this is not something that he's doing and trying to conceal. Right. He's concealing his identity, certainly, but he doesn't want people to catch him in the act. No. He has some goals of these encounters. Yeah, he wants to hear about it after. Yes. He doesn't want to be. He's not hiding bodies. Yeah. No. He's intestines on display. Take a love. And he's getting more and more.

on display as these women are killed. And he's getting bolder and bolder as he goes too. Yes. So this is an interesting one because this is also the last one that we have with Jupiter in Scorpio. Jupiter is about to switch signs. And I think that this, and that's my working theory for why things really get wild. Oh, okay. That's interesting.

So next we have Elizabeth Stride. Long list. Long Liz. Long Liz. And they don't know why. Yeah. They don't... Just long Liz.

Long Liz. Yeah. Maybe. They also said that she had a long face, maybe. Yeah. Just something long. The nicknays were wild back then. They were...

They're all like bullies. They were like... Yeah, they were roast. Yeah, they were roast, for sure. I don't want to know what my nickname would have been back on. No. I don't want an 1888 White Chapel name. No.

I'm sure there's a generator out there somewhere. Oh, my God. Wait, there's not. Now there is. We need that. Two week. We do. That's so funny. So Elizabeth was a Sagittarius sun, an Aquarius moon.

And she had a bunch of planets in Aquarius, actually. She had fun. Yes. She was born in, she was a Swedish woman. She had Mars in Aquarius. She had Neptune in Aquarius. The moon was in Aquarius. Jupiter was in Aquarius.

She had the son in Sagittarius. She was a talker. She was philosophical. She was sort of, you know, she was unconventional. She was weird. She was someone who did things differently. Right. So it makes sense that she, she's one of those that I feel like is in this situation,

but is also kind of like, where else would I be? You know, like, yeah. Here I have found myself in Whitechapel. It is a long way from Kansas. But, like, I'm doing the thing here. Because she originally, in Sweden, I believe, she was the one who registered as a sex worker in Sweden so she could do it legally. Oh, shit. And she would have to, like, check in and get checked and stuff.

So she did it like, yeah. And this is the job I'm doing. That feels very Aquarius energy. Like, I can do this and, like, people should be able to do this. I'll make it official. Get concerned with, like, the world at large. Yeah. So it does seem like she's just kind of like, yeah, this is what I do.

I'm owning it. Yeah. Put me on the list. Like, I'm going to do this legally. Mm-hmm. And what I'm not. I also, you know, going back to that, to the sort of like the communication and the talking and then the silencing thing, like here's another example of of another female archetype who has

like a very ballsy chart. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And who is it who stands up for herself and knows how to defend herself and knows how to protect herself? Like, sure, she is certainly a victim, not just of this murder, but like of the world and society in the circumstances, but she also was tough.

Yeah, in fact, on the night she died, one of the witnesses heard, like one of the witnesses who saw her walking with a man or saw her talking with a man, heard this other person say to her, you would say anything but your prayers. And like, and she laughed. I love that. So that's literally her. That is so funny. I mean, not to mention she has my mom's birthday.

Oh. So November 27th, 1843. My mom's not from 18-13. You're like, exact date. Exactly. She's a time traveler. It's crazy. Yeah.

No, but my mom is in November 27, SAD, so I know the energy. I know the vibe. It is. My grandma used to say that when my mom was a little girl, she would, like, follow her from room to room talking, like, go into the bathroom talking. I love that. She goes to the basement. Like, anywhere my grandma was going, my mom was following, talking, talking. She's like, let me tell you a story.

See? So that really fits her. Yes. Yeah. You'd say anything but your prayers. Yes. He's just like, damn, you're just talking about anything and everything. Yeah.

And she was also, when she was found, she had flowers in her hand. She had coins in her hand. Yeah, she had a lot of things on her. But she was like in the process. She was like doing things. Yeah. She was like talking, chatting, doing things busy. Oh, yeah.

She was not just like wandering down the streets. Nope. You know. She was in the mix. She was in the mix. For sure. And it wasn't even, you know, for White Chapel, it wasn't even that late. No, 1 a.m. I think it was she was found.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I mean, that's just popping out. That's the beginning of the night. Yeah, a happy hour. It's the pregame. That's when she was found, so this was way before. Yeah.

So in this case, she had her throat cut, but no additional mutilation happened. I think it was interrupted, I'm pretty sure. Well, and then you think about the timing. It's like maybe somebody was coming around the corner earlier in the night. It's too early for him to be out doing this. And he did it in kind of an open space. Right. I 100% think that this was interrupted.

because of what happens with the next one. He had a vision. He did. And I think he had a story that he wanted to tell with this. Oh, yeah. And this to me feels sort of like, oh, shit. You know, like never, I got it. This didn't work out.

This wasn't what I wanted. This isn't the vision I had. No. I have to keep moving. That's why I think he had a double event next. Yes. Because I think he was making up for one. Yes.

And this chart is interesting because. It's, as I mentioned, it's the first one where Jupiter switches into Sagittarius. Now, Jupiter is in its domicile in Sagittarius, which means that's where Jupiter loves to be the most. Our most recent reference of Jupiter in Sagittarius is when COVID started spreading. Oh, shit. I think my Jupiter is in Sagittarius. We'll discuss. Okay.

Oh, no. Can't wait to get to that. It's this sort of like it's bigger. It's enhancing. it's amplifying. It's taking that energy. And at on this day, on September 30th, Jupiter was making an exact opposition to Neptune, which was locked in with Pluto. It's that Neptune Pluto signature, which is in all of these charts. That was, that's a very long lasting signature because those planets move so slowly. So all of these charts, all of these death charts have that. And Jupiter, which is the

magnifying energy was magnifying that signature of mystery, of murder, of sort of the intensity and the volume. Like, it literally was turning up the volume on this. And I think that, and again, we're back to volume. We're back to speech. We're back to sort of vocalization. I think that Elizabeth Stride was very much sort of, I mean, they're all a very wrong place, wrong time.

But this is one where it's like, maybe we didn't have to have two that night. Yeah. Right. I think that he, I think there could have just been one. Yep. But we have a casualty of a casualty. Yeah, like a missed opportunity in his eyes. Yes. So yeah, that's our scene with with this death chart, which is the same death chart because we don't have the exact time to the second or to the fourth victim.

Okay. Which is Catherine Edos. Our girl. Our girl who is getting talked about a lot recently. Yeah. Supposedly she had a show. Supposedly that's her. Shaw. It wasn't, though. We don't think so. Well, guess who has a Gemini moon? Catherine Edos. Okay. Yeah. So she is part of the signature. She's part of this story that we're telling with the Neptune and the Pluto and Gemini. Because Polly had one too, right? Yes. And that was

the death chart, the first chart, has a Gemini moon. So Catherine also is as an Ares. She was born on April 14th, 1842. And she was born under a Pluto-sun conjunction. So when she was born, Pluto was in Aries, her son was in Aries. And we talked about Pluto being death, right? We talked about Pluto being this like mysterious underworld, intense force. But when I see something like that in a chart, I think that this is a legacy that lives on. To have your son connected with a force like Pluto, of course you're going to be remembered for how you die. Yeah. Because it's life and death all in one house. Yes. And Ares is a fire sign. We have another firecracker here. We have another feisty woman.

Not going to put up with your shit. Not going to be silent unless you do it immediately. She also has a temper. Yeah, she does. And the dude, I think the guy that she was with at the time or like hanging around with literally told her that night, like be careful, don't become another victim of the White Chapel slasher or whatever they were calling him at that point. And she was like, oh, I'm not worried about that. Literally said like, fuck that. Not worried about it. Like she was just like, nope, don't care. That freaks me out. Yeah, because when someone says something like that, you don't want it to be prophetic. Yeah, you don't want that to live off. That's the worst prophecy you could give. You definitely don't. But yeah, this is. this is another strong, fiery individual who is doing her thing, not taking any shit, knows how to defend herself, knows how to take care of herself, definitely would know how to stand up for herself. Yeah. That's a trigger for him, for sure.

100%. Because the fact that all of the, I mean, we're on the fourth victim and they all have this in common so far, it's absolutely a trigger for him. Yes. Yes. And then this, you know, is so interesting to me because this is the case where we're we have her story living on, right? The shawl comes from this. Yep.

The kidney in what the next sort of incident that we'll talk about is comes from this chronologically. Then also this is where there's graffiti on the wall that I think is incredibly compelling. And one of our characters, the captain, oh no, Sir Charles Warren. We're talking about Warren. Sir Charles Warren. the head of the London Metropolitan Police, has it scrubbed before any crime scene photos are taken. Interesting. So I don't have that text here, but I, maybe we could also pull it up.

But it's anti-Semitic surprise. Yep. Surprise. Spoiler alert. Crazy. But to me, the reason that all of these pieces are so interesting with this person, with this death case, with this death charge. with this death chart is the legacy bit of it. This is when, to me, our Jack the Ripper is being like, notice me, pay attention to me.

Oh, yeah. Throat cut, abdomen mutilated, left kidney removed, parts of the uterus removed, our first instance of facial mutilation. And this is someone who's not taking any shit. No. This is also someone who in their chart has that sun Pluto conjunction of I'm going to be remembered for how I die. And I am going to tell a story that exists long after I am gone. You know, what's even weirder is she got arrested that night.

And when they asked her to write her name down, she wrote nothing. Spooky. Isn't that weird? For like somebody who's going to be remembered for how they die, they wrote nothing as their name. And just like you're like you're so close to not being nothing but to be being removed. Removed from existence. Yeah. Like physically.

I hate that so much. Yeah. My arms are fully chilling so badly. Yeah. But she's something. She is. And we're still talking about her. And all of, I mean, so much evidence comes from this particular murder.

Right. Mm-hmm. Not the shawl. The alleged shawl comes from this murder. But this one, this one's also really. really intricate too, like how he removed things. Like he took her kidney and he removed it from the renal capsule, which is like a very thin lining to take it.

And he did it like very delicately. And again, this is one of those things where she was killed in a place that was darker than dark. Like her particular place that she was killed, I think, was it mitre square, I believe, or something. So she was right out in the open. She was and she was in an alleyway and it was like dark, dark, dark. and she had just passed a police officer.

She said something like, like, good evening old cock or something to him. Like, she said something like, she's risen to him. That's my girl. That's my airy son, Gemini Moon girl. And she's just waltzed past a police officer. And then he does it in an alleyway, in the pitch blackness,

faster than you can imagine. And he's being so delicate to slice through a renal capsule to remove a kidney. You have to know. You have to know about the body. You'd have to know that was there. You have to know you need to be delicate with that. You have to.

Yeah. And I think she had her uterus move too. Like there was so many things here that he did so fast. Yeah. And it's interesting because it was a partial removal. So it's like, did he not have time to finish it? Yeah. I mean, he was doing a lot, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. And the facial mutilation, you know, also we have images of it. Yeah. Also horrifying. Oh, it's horrific. Yeah. Yeah.

It's hardcore. It is. It is. really intense. And you wonder, too, with that one, because again, he's, like, escalating. And because the other ones didn't have the extensive facial mutilation. It's like, we go here. And then to go from here, we obviously have somebody in between, but to go to Mary Kelly, it's like he was on that path. He was on that path. I'm just making them not a person anymore. Right. And I think that was, like, the message here was he was slowly making them not a person.

Well, and maybe that's really where the intestines thrown over the shoulder comes in with the second woman who was killed. It's like that's where he started. Like you're not a person. It's almost like animalistic. Yeah, because he makes it almost like a, like you said, like he's making it almost like a part of her clothing. Right. Right. Something strange. Like let's just flip them over her shoulder because that's, and that's not something human. And then it just continues to escalate. Yeah. That's why I think there is there is some personal vendetta and connection to sex workers. Yeah. Because it's a humiliation ritual. This is making them slowly but surely not recognizable as human beings because that's how he saw them. But he just did it slowly as he went.

Yes. Which is so fucked up. Yes. And so what do you think about the graffiti that was here? That always confounded me. I feel like it was unrelated. I remember talking about that and that was our consensus was that it wasn't related. And I think that's also part of why Charles Warren got rid of it or ordered it to be washed off because I think he knew as well that it was unrelated, but that it would be connected. Because it's also like would he really have had the time to do everything he did to mutilate her? And then again, in the pitch black, write that on the wall. Yeah. My initial instinct was that it was unrelated. But then the letter comes right after. So if we think of the letter, if we do say that that was an authentic communication, which I think it is.

I feel like it. The From Hell letter. Yeah. Yeah. I think the from hell letter is my favorite part of this whole story. It's so exciting. I'm obsessed with the from hell letter. I mean, it's so spooky girl coded. It doesn't have a letter from hell. It's terrifying. It's so terrifying.

But the reason that I sort of paused on it because because it's anti-Semitic, it's like what business, like why are we throwing this, you know, subplot into the story? What does this have to do with this? Exactly. But then to have the letter right after, to me, there is this piece of communication. that's happening. And then going back to the astrology, that communication signature, right? Yeah. That these women aren't talking, but I have something to say. And I want to be heard. I want to be seen, not for you to find out who I am. Or maybe he did. Yeah, who knows. He really starts

to get pretty dicey, no pun intended here. And then he reaches out to the media. It's like that he is testing the waters. If that graffiti was there and he saw it and that sparked an idea. That came the place. That was like, oh, let's do it here. Because then the communication started. So it's like, he almost saw that and was like, wait, I can communicate. I can use that. That's interesting. Like, I can communicate not just through this and what I'm doing. Because obviously what I'm doing, I'm communicating in some way, but people aren't getting it. Like no one's, they're not getting it. They're not getting it. They're not saying the writing on the wall. And he literally is like, I'm seeing the writing on the wall. Maybe I should send a letter. Maybe I should communicate with words.

Right. Right. This is here, you know. Yeah. And maybe. be also, because obviously he was paying attention to how the investigation was going. Oh, yeah. So he also saw that that that was scrubbed off. So he's also thinking, oh, words matter. Yeah. They have meaning. They're going to take them seriously. Yeah. This is something that I can incorporate into into this storytelling. Yeah. Because that's, I mean, he's telling some sicko story here in this. And that's what he wants to convey. Right. So yeah, this one is really a notable one because of how much evidence, both real and alleged evidence, and then also missing evidence, is coming out of it.

And then the next thing that I have is the From Hell letter. Yep. So that's October 16th, 1888. And this is sent to George Lus. Yeah, because he was a, yeah, Lusk, that's what it was. I tragically don't have a birthday for him other than that he was born in. 1839 was the year he was born. So he is a builder and a decorator.

Could you imagine that existing in Whitechapel? Honestly. And like he's a designer? How is business? What's going on? Okay. All right. He's got a dreary vibe.

Yeah. You know? Edward Gorey-esque. The chairman of, but he becomes the chairman of the White Chapel. Vigilance. Yeah, the committee. So he is like, You know what? I got to take matters into my own hands. Neighborhood watch.

Let's go. We love. Yeah. We love a neighborhood watch. We love it. And he receives this letter, this package, a parcel, if you will. Yeah. Truly a parcel. October 16th, 1888. That has the most iconic, haunting letter ever. Mm-hmm. And also a kidney. And also a kidney. Fantastic. Little piece of a kidney. Fantastic. That's that right there. I'm like, I just, I don't see.

how you can't think that's authentic. Like, yeah. Well, they also tested the kidney and we're able to determine it was human and it was female. Yeah. And it was likely from the left side, which is. Which is crazy that they could do that back then. I know.

Let's take a second for that. I know. I'm like, keep going. Right. Take a second with snap. You could find this man. Yeah. You're doing great work.

You're doing it. You're doing it. We're doing it. Let's go. Right. Yeah. So this letter is everything to me because it also, you know, we don't have again the exact time, but it arrived in the afternoon. So we are able to kind of play with the time a little bit between 3 and 6 p.m. So with that in mind, it's very possible that that signature, that Neptune Pluto signature and Gemini could have been like distinctly at one of the big angles of this, right? I have it a little bit after 4 p.m. And that puts it at the what's the point is called the IC, which is the base of your chart, which I literally refer to as your villain

origin story. Oh, damn. And that also would mean that the moon in Pisces is right on the ascendant. Pysse is rolled by Neptune. So it's creating mystery, right? It's continuing this, yes, this dreamy puzzle pieces. And it's also adding to the drama. Something that I always think about and that I think often gets overlooked with Pisces and Neptunian placements is that they have this sort of like glamour and mystique to them. So there was an aestheticism to it. There was a lot of intentionality about the presentation, the parcel, the kidney, the kidney being in a spirit. And the fact that he was saying he tried to eat some of it. So he was upping that like, omnasty.

Grotesque doctor. Oh, also, I'm a cannibal. Right, right, right, right. And unless you didn't think that I was twisted. Or you scared? I'm also a cannibal. So it's like he's upping it. Yes.

Yeah. So this also, this chart also puts Mars right at the mid heaven. Mars again being violence. War. War. Spire. You know. Agro things.

So this from hell letter is truly from hell. Yeah. It is truly. truly is. Truly from the bowels of hell. Mars is also like determination, right? So he's determined to make a name for himself when he sends this letter. Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it makes sense. Again, with the addition of like, recognize me. Oh, in addition with the Hannibalesque, like, I ate it, you know, with a fine candy. Right. You know, like that's the vibe. Like, he's getting theatrical.

Yeah. He's upping his ante. He's trying to be, he's trying the aesthetic of it all. He's like, I'm now a cannibal. Just like he's laying that out as like it's... He's like, oh, and I ate it. Also, I had a fried it up and ate it. Yeah, I fried it up.

It was delicious. It was delicious. Here's the rest. Yeah, for you. Damn. For you. Try it. Why do you think that he sent it to this like citizen? Yeah.

This vigilante citizen. I think because the police commissioner just wasn't getting it. Yeah. And I mean, that's like the whole reason that the vigilante came to be is because the police commissioner wasn't really getting it. So he needed to start figuring this out. And I think whoever Jack the Ripper is, recognized that and was like, oh, well, this guy's going to spread the good word. Yeah. That I'm a cannibal, that I have this kidney, that I'm this like deviant man. Yeah. You know, I think so too. Yeah. It's so interesting to me, you know, the timing of it too. It's two weeks

after the last murder. And then we still have a ways to go. You know, it's kind of the halfway point between the two most gruesome and final murders. So what was going on? What was he doing? He was writing letters. He was eating kidney. He was doing something with these organs, I think. Experiments maybe.

You wonder what he, because I also wonder, I'm like, Elizabeth Stride was supposed to be Catherine Edos. Yes. Like, that's clear. Yes. So it's like, did he always have five in mind? Was there always this, you know, extra? Or was it four?

Or was it always supposed to be four? Is there some significance to four instead of five? Since I don't think he had intentionally went for five. And maybe that's why five went so off the fucking rails. That's why, like, I think maybe he initially wanted four. Because also that makes kind of the most sense with the way he escalates if you take Elizabeth Stride out of it. Right. Because she's a weird pause almost.

She's a pause because there was an interruption. He didn't get to go. It was a mistake. It was an a oopsies. Like the intestines over the shoulder, like, that's escalation. And then you go to Catherine Eddo's and it's way more escalation. There's the facial mutilation. There's the removal of more organs. There's lacerations everywhere. I believe her, I think her genitals were like severely lacerated. He went like really frenzied in that one.

And then he goes about a hundred steps higher with Mary Jane Kelly. Yeah. And it's like, I do wonder if it was supposed to be four and that they were looking at the significance of the five and everything, but there was always a significance of four, maybe. I wonder if he also, and like, you know, if we were to talk about, don't let me talk about ghosts because I always end up siding with the ghost. Now, Jack the Ripper is not a ghost. So I'm not siding with him, but I also am wondering if maybe he really wanted to get caught before this, the final one. And he was really also being tortured mentally. Yeah. Because there's enough of a pause and there's enough of an outreach where he could also be just like losing his damn mind. I mean, clearly this is like a very unwell person. Disturbed individual.

Well, and there are so many suspects that did end up going into asylums at the time that everything abruptly stopped. So I think you could be on to something there. Yeah. And it's kind of like it's a cry for help. And he's like, I'm a cannibal too. Yeah. Like, I'm really, really bad. I really need help.

Like, I'm eating these organs. Like, someone get. Come find me. Yeah. It's like, I think there was like, we did a case of like the lipstick. The lipstick killer. Yeah. And he literally wrote on the wall like, for the love of God, please find me or I won't stop.

And it's, and it kind of feels a similar in a way. Yeah. It's like you could go either way with it where like he really went to lengths to not be caught. But then also that pause. and then the frenzy at the end, you're like, what did happen? Well, I feel like there is, like, such a dichotomous nature to whoever this is. Absolutely. If it's like, I want to get caught.

You mean, no, I don't. Gemini? Gemini signature, yes. I want to get caught. No, I don't know. Like, oh, is he a Gemini? Probably. So many killers are.

They are. Well, see. But so many rappers are, too. So there's good things about us. There are. Exactly. I love a Gemini. Who doesn't love a Gemini?

Exactly. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it's, you know, it also then makes me think that it's another point for that he could have done the graffiti, though. Yeah. Like, maybe if I'm anti-Semitic, they'll pay attention. Yeah, like I could make myself the worst person I can possibly be. An anti-Semitic cannibal killer.

Yeah. That'll do it. But then I also, on like the flip side of it, I do think he views these women as like subterranean. Yeah. I don't think he views them as people that it's like, as people, period. He's like, look, I'm a bad guy. I think he's like, I'm not a bad guy. Like I'm taking out the trash.

I think that's literally how he views it as like, they aren't people. So like, why do you all even care? Maybe he can't decide though. Maybe it's yes, they're trash and yes, I'm disposing of them and I'm a great guy because I'm, you know, taking them off the streets.

And then on the flip side of that, maybe he's also like, but I'm a killer and I ate these kidneys. Yeah. I'm doing all these fucked up things and I can't stop myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That letter definitely feels more just like, look how twisted I am. Yeah. Look it on. Cooky. Yeah. And you wonder if, like he started this with that like, because I, there's that personal thing that I feel is there

that like somebody in his life made him hate. The mother or the mother role. Yeah, like somebody in his life, like a wife, a girlfriend, a mother, like some woman in his life made him hate, like, in his mind, made him hate these women. Yes. And I wonder if he started with Polly thinking like, this is my, like, I'll get it out here. I'm going to get this out. I'm going to, I'm going to teach these women a lesson kind of thing. And then he saw, and I think to him, he was like, well, no one will give a shit because who gives a shit about these women in his mind? And then he saw that people did give a shit about this and that it was causing such a stir. And he slowly started falling into that like, wait a second, like getting that ego and getting that like, people are scared of me. So then now I'm like, was he like, we know he's a little bitch, but it's like, was he even more of a little bitch than we thought he was?

I mean, probably. And he was seeing everybody like suddenly fearing him and being like, Jack the Ripper. He felt big for the first time. And all of a sudden he's like, fuck. Like, I have power I didn't have before. And that's why it kept escalating. Well, when you think about the circumstances of Whitechapel and living there at the time,

and nobody really had power. Nobody had word or exactly. So now he finally has it. Yeah, he's got everybody like in his grip. But it's in the shadows, which is also then going back to that signature of Neptune and Pluto that we have in all of these murders. It's like, because Pluto is also power, right? It is power.

So yeah, you have power, but nobody knows who the fuck you are. Yeah, right. And you're a little bitch. So like... So do you have power? Like really? Do you even? Nobody even knows who you are.

Yeah. And you're attacking people in like the dead a night on dark street corner. And immediately cutting their throat. And immediately cutting their throat. It's like, so you're a little bitch. A little bit. At the end of the day. Yeah.

It's true. Jack the Ripper is a little bit. He is a little bit. You heard it here first. Yeah. I think it is important to, to call it like it is because this, you know, he has become so mythological. And, like, he's gotten, like, sexy.

Oh, yeah, because, like, people turn him into this, like, sexy dark figure that's just, like, looming around with a cape and a top hat. I'm like, I don't think he was... Yeah. Sex energy. I don't think he was rolling around with, like, a cape and a top hat. Like, I don't think, because also he would sit... And I think, actually, I think on the Tobias episode, he pointed this out.

He would stick out, like, a sore thumb. And white chap and walking around. a fucking cape and a... That's so funny. They'd be like, it's probably that weirdo. Yeah, they'd be like, it's probably that fucking weird guy over there in the cape. Like, they'd be like, huh, who could it be? Maybe this rich guy that's walking in here.

This fucking weirdo moved to town. Yeah, it's like, no, I think he probably looked like... He blended in a slubby little loser. A dirty, like, just, like, everyone else there. Yeah. So it's like, it's so weird how it's become like this sexualized version of him of like, look at this, like, caped figure. And it's like, even on the Neptune's, Scorpio.

Exactly. Like, somebody sent us this from, it's like a little, like the visitors guide that you get on the tour in Whitechapel. And even there. Hot silhouette. He's like this big looming figure. He has a hot silhouette. And it's like, that's not what he looked like. I know it.

I know we will. I'm tiny. We will not see a top hat on that man. If he was to materialize in front of us right now, no top hat to be seen. Yeah. No cape to be seen. I hope he does not materialize. I hope he doesn't either.

You know what? Yourself. Show yourself. Let's go. Right now. I'll see some more. You want some more outspoken women? Yeah.

We'll outnumber you. Yeah. It's not White Chapel. We have outspoken women. And we have a Mikey in here, so we're going to kick your ass. Let's go. He's like, I don't know. He's like, I might go home now.

I'm Canadian. I'm not ready for this. That's so funny. I love it. So nobody catches him. No. Unfortunately. Until it's old as time.

This is just a funny one, but there was a saucy jack letter. Do you remember the saucy jack letter? And that wasn't real, though. It was an interesting one, though, because I think that one mentioned the double event. So I remember that one I was a little iffy on the fence. Because it wasn't released that there was a double event yet when it was written. So that's an interesting one. But it also could have just been somebody who lived in that particular area.

Yeah. Like somebody weren't spread. It's, you know, but yeah. But you never know. Or one of these, like, silly police officers who. Yeah, let's send a letter to the dark woods. They were kooky police officers. And there wasn't a lot going on aside from this, which you would think this would be enough.

But it was just a bunch of, you needed some entertainment. It was a lot of the same. A lot of the same misery. Yeah, literally. Same old, same all. Yeah. Uh-huh. So Mary Jane Kelly.

Oof. She is the youngest of the victims. She was 25 when she died. We know her birth year. She was born in 1863. her situation is very different than all the others she is young she was murdered indoors she was murdered in her home very upsetting um in the room she was renting um she also was completely like eviscerated yeah i mean she evaporated she wasn't even she yeah there was nothing holding her together anymore

you can't make out a human form in the crime scene photo yeah i mean in like pieces of her were placed in different places in the room. Yeah. Her face was hacked apart. Like, her thighs are, you can see just bone. Yeah. But he like hacked it right to the bone. Like, I can't imagine how long this took. That's what it was in any time.

It said over two hours. It had to have taken so long. And how did he not calm in the middle of that? You know what I mean? Like, how are you frenzied for two hours? I think almost, I think he was friends. How did you not lose steam? See, I think he was frenzied in the beginning.

And I think because it It takes a lot to cut into a person Of course. Like it just does. There's a lot. There's a different layers of a human being take a lot. Layers of skin, muscles, tendin, bone, you know. And I think he was frenzied

And I think he was frenzied when he went at her face. I think he was frenzied when he went like at the, like when he was hacking away. And when he killed her. And then I think he had a moment of like stopping for a second, breathing. And let me set the scene. And then meticulously cutting off her breasts. chopping away at her thighs.

Like, I think he took a breath and then got meticulous about it. It's also possible that he thought he was going to get found in this process. So he was just doing this? Doing the most T-Code. He was literally buying time being like, well, I guess I'll just keep going because no one's coming yet. Right. Yeah.

I wasn't considering that in preparing these charts, but as we've talked about it, you know, like I think that it, taking, this long of time. And you could argue while he was indoors, so like he had the luxury of time. Yeah. But there was still like coming and going. Oh yeah. And this was also happening like, you know, in the early hours. Yeah. So there was some movement. People are going to leave for work and exactly. Get out to do this shit. This was happening at like, you know, 5 a.m. Yeah. The sun was starting to come up. You know, it's not the middle of winter yet, right? We still have a sun that rises pretty early. Yeah. Right.

That's true. Yeah. He also, I think he, I'm pretty sure there was like a fireplace in the room. And I think he like made the fire like blazing too. Yes. Like the fire was blazing. So it's like, come look in here. So I almost think he was drawing attention to it, which he could, that could be

drawing attention to him while he's in there or drawing attention to the scene after the fact. Yeah, maybe it was one of the last things he did. Yeah. But it's definitely drawing attention. That was a blazing fire. Yes. That she definitely didn't set.

So this is, this is the chart. where this is the only murder that takes place during Scorpio season. And Scorpio season is that veiled between world season. Halloween occurs during Scorpio season. It's end of October into November. And we've talked about Scorpio energy represented in the other planets, but it's that life and death and power and intensity. So this Scorpio season sort of backdrop here, I think, gives it this really eerie, dark,

psychological tone. We also have the sun in the same place where Jupiter and Mars were when this whole thing started. So there is this sort of like this whole circle. Yeah. This conclusion that's happening here too. And I wrote a note, I'm seeing crazy Jupiter. So Jupiter now is, you know, it's at 10 degrees of Sagittarius. And we talked about this sort of, you know, this amplification and this magnification. And I think that that growth and that dynamism that was happening here in terms of the way that he was doing and the extent of the violence was also him getting crazier. I mean, obviously. But the reason that I bring that up is because something is changing in him too. You know what I mean? It's not just like, oh, I'm learning how to do this and I like what I'm

doing. So let me like up the ante for the next one. It's also like he is. He is. absolutely unraveling. Yeah, like, where do you go from here? Well, and also, Sagittarius is known to, like, have a sense of escapism, right? And then Jupiter's going to expand that. So maybe he's trying to escape from himself. And that's why he wants to get caught here. He wants to get caught. He wants to get caught. Like, I need to get out of this cycle. He took his time here. He was not frenzied through this whole thing because he placed like organs under her head. He like placed some under her legs. So like he was, he's just going nuts. That scene. Like, He was, and like with this one too, which is interesting, he took her heart.

Like just her heart. Took it from the scene? Took it from the scene. They never found her heart. And for the organ to be the heart that he takes this time. That's so significant. Like, that's their significance there. What do you think about that?

Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I mean, in medical astrology, the heart is associated with Leo. Saturn is in Leo in this chart. in all of these. We had Saturn and Leo. And there is this very much of, you know, this energy of ego and sort of making your mark. I mean, I think it's very performative. I think it's very much about sort of like, and now I take your heart. Yeah, which is your life force. And like this is the testament of like, taking something from you that is like also symbolic of love and symbolic of affection and connection.

But it's like, I'm taking everything away from you. Yes. I'm taking everything away from you. Take it. To take your heart is to take your ability to be alive. Yeah. Your vitality makes you human. Yes. To take what makes you human. And this, I suppose, could go, because I'm thinking about it and I'm like, okay, if this is like a medical person, which it is. Which it is. Which I believe it is. But I wonder too, like at that time what they considered the like humanity of you, your brain or your heart. Yes. And to me it feels like maybe like I think now. they look at it more like your brain is probably what makes you human when you're brain dead nothing else can really happen but back then i wonder if it was a little more like romanticized where it's like the heart is everything that makes you human and like in the beginning we were saying how like he looks at these women i think is subterranean not human and i think he was making sure that

everyone else saw them that way this is his like magnum opus of like see she doesn't even have a heart she's not even a human like that's what makes you love that's what makes you kind that's what makes you a good person and I took it she doesn't even have that yeah like it feels so significant she's not worth loving she's not worth remembering and in his mind which makes me think again yeah it's also yeah it's also very much sort of like I am in charge of you yep I own you I have this now and I always will yeah and I wonder if it's like that and that makes me think too that whoever it was that he was thinking of when he killed these women was in his mind cruel and unloving, which could be a mother, could be a wife, could be a, I mean,

it could be a sister. It could be anybody that he saw as this person that was close to him. It was a prominent female, yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I think, I think you're definitely on to something with that. The moon was also in Capricorn on this, on this night. That's harsh. November 9th, 1888. It's way harsh time. Well, moon in Capricorn and, you know, I don't want to, for anyone who has a moon in Capricorn who's listening, you are not Jack the Ripper. So don't personalize this. This is about him. Not you.

But the moon is considered to be in a very compromised place in Capricorn. Capricorn, you know, the moon represents the mother. And the moon is how we take care of ourselves, how we're taken care of. It's in its domicile. It's in its home base in the sign of cancer. It's very nurturing, loving, maternal, supportive. Capricorn, its opposite sign, which was all. also connected to the south node of past lives. So another indication that this is something

historic that he's replaying here. But the moon in Capricorn is like mommy issues 101. Because that's like this man has mommy issues. He absolutely does. That's like your mom being your biggest critic. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, you know, we still have, and also you being heartless, literally, to about your mom. mom. Because Capricorn is ruled by Saturn and it is, it's, it does not have time for emotions. No. It does not want to be sweet and tender. It wants to. It's rules. It's rules. It's it's confirmed. It does not. Yeah. It's by the book. It's by the book. Which is also like maybe that's why his like mom probably was somebody who was against sex work. It was wrong. It was against

the book. Like in her mind. Yeah. And maybe that's why he felt this way. I think. I think. It could be that or it could be, I mean, in astrology, and all spirituality opposites are the same. You know, to be so against sex work is to be a sex worker, right? It's like it ultimately like sort of, it's its own tail, right? And I think that a moon in Capricorn, you know, if we were to do this sort of psychological analysis of it, it's feeling like you weren't loved. So to me, this would indicate more of maybe a mother who was out, you know, using, hey, her body with a lot of men doing something that, you know, was neglectful to her children, to this Jack, the Ripper.

It does feel that way. Yeah. Like just not connected. And I'm saying using her body kind of almost in a channeling sort of way of, as I'm thinking of how he would be perceiving it. Yeah. Right? So then to mutilate these bodies and to rip them apart and to take apart the bodies.

The one thing of value that you have. Yeah. It's like I'm deconeliorate. It's like I'm deconstructing this. Who is my mother? Yeah. Who is the body of my mother? Yeah.

I 100% think that that is what it is, that his mother was likely a sex worker and was not around or something of that. Because I mean, you look at a lot of, unfortunately, the canonical five especially or any of the ones that aren't the canonical five but have been mentioned in the White Chapel murder file, they have a simple, like there's a. sad path of like, a lot of them will have kids and they'll do their best to try to get their kids back, but then they end up on the streets again and having to do this and they end up like not seeing their kids or they do see their kids and they have these like strained relationships, but they're always trying to get back to that like mother role of like being there. And it's just not attainable. So it is a thing that happened so often there and so often in Whitechapel in that time period. And so much so that it's rooted in the history of it. Yeah, wouldn't be shocking that this could

be a younger guy like in his 20s, you know, who had a mother or has a mother who was going through a similar thing. Yeah. And could still be on the streets right now doing that. Like, who knows? And we haven't brought up the fact that all of these women are also alcoholics. All of them. And they all have nicknames like associated with their alcoholism sometimes. And even on the nights of their death, You know, many of them are drunk. Many of them were seen drunk. Right. We're in jail because they were drunk that night. In this time and in this place, it's like those lifestyles coexist.

Yeah. Right. It's difficult to get out of the situation when you also are struggling with addiction. And then you also have to sort of work in a field that allows you to have and enables your addiction. You know, addiction, right? And addiction is going to make you very, very difficult for you to be a good mom. Yeah. It's very hard to be present for your kid. And I'm sure that it's even worse than that.

I'm sure that this Jack, the Ripper was also probably like sexually abused. Yeah. And could have been sexually abused by his mother, you know? I'm sure it's the darkest and most horrific version of this story because these are the darkest and most horrific ways of expressing that, you know, and processing that pain. And wasn't the, I think the kid. the from hell kidney was in some sort of alcohol. Yeah. It was in a spirit.

So it's like was that? That's true. I mean that's also. It's preserving it. Preserving it. You'll always be part of this. Like alcohol is part of this whole thing. Yeah.

Yeah. Alcohol has to be part of it. Yeah. It really does. I think we're solving it. We are. We're in process. We're figuring this out.

So that's our last Spitfire Lady. Yes. of which they were all, we remember them all, we have names for them all, which is pretty interesting. And, you know, cool, I guess. I'm glad we know. Yeah, that is. Yeah. And the astrology just makes so much sense.

Yeah. It really does. And it's, it really is that whole, like, there are no coincidences. No, they're not. The odds of most of this stuff is astronomical. Mm-hmm. So then we get into our funny cast of characters. Yes.

Right. We have Sir Charles Warren. Sir Charles Warren. The head of the London Metropolitan Police came in in that role in 1886, left in 1888. Yeah. Not long. Not long. So he was an Aquarius son and an Aries Moon.

and the first thing that I jotted down when I was looking at his chart was that, oh, he hates being told what to do. Oh, yeah. And he has a temper and he looks out for himself and he is not an easy person to collaborate with. Yeah. And, you know, we have some other placements as well that are interesting here. He was, he has a Saturn in Sagittarius. he has his Jupiter in Scorpio, which means his Jupiter return was happening during this time. So much Scorpio energy.

And like coinciding with Jupiter. He also, the first murder, which is sort of the birth chart of these murders, coincided with his south node of fate and destiny. So there was this between having a Jupiter return in Scorpio, which is, You know, it happens every 12 years, and it's supposed to be a very auspicious time. We typically consider at this time of like luck and abundance and good things coming in. There were a lot of things that were happening all at the same time. Bloody Sunday happened just a year before, November 13th, 1887, which, you know, he was sort of the, he called for that police brutality that was taking place then. So he had previously been thought of as this sort of like more progressive. guy. He was an archaeologist. He was like in the science. He was yeah. And then suddenly he becomes this like tough guy like military. Yeah. And and that's not like what his skills were. That's not what he was good at. So it's almost like, and this happens in astrology, it's like if you're

going down the wrong path, the universe is going to like push you back on the other. He ended up going back into more academic work. Yeah. And into... Better suited. Better suited for him. Yeah. So I thought that that was so interesting because he was, you know, he's someone who

was kind of like, he wasn't in, he wasn't doing the right kind of work for being this Aquarius son of like, oh, let's go and explore Palestine and think about like these different regions of the world. The first picture that you see when you Google him is like him, you know, in some exonial exotic location. It's true. With like the colonial whole apparel on. And that's honestly the vibe that he gives anyways.

When you look at a picture of him, you're like, what are you doing? What are you doing? You got a big old mustache. What are you doing? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Go dig up some stuff.

Yes. And not this because you're not working. I mean, it's right. Him having that graffiti cleaned off before they could even come and take a picture of it right there. He was like, oh, come on. This isn't nice. Hey, don't say that. Come on. Yeah, you got to take a picture of it, my guy. Like, he messed that whole thing. That's not how

a crime scene works. And he didn't even realize that that was going to make him look bad, too. Like, he wasn't even thinking that way because he's just not good at it. Yeah. Yeah, this was, this was not his skill set. No. So he resigned literally on the day of the last murder. Yep. Wow. Which is another tank, another, there are no coincidence. It's very interesting.

Yeah. But, you know, with having the head of the police department resigning at this time, I think it also speaks to just like the chaos and the kookiness of the investigation at this time. He's just like, you know what? It's like you're all the way into it anymore. You know what? We're so deep. Right.

And now somebody else just has to take this on from this. Yeah. And that also, it's like the looking out for yourself thing. Like my guy. Like you're really in the thick of like something. horrible happening in this community. And you're like, you know what, I don't want the criticism. Yeah, he's like, you know what? I can't take it. I've had this. I've had enough. It's every man for himself. Every man for himself. That's enough bossing me around.

I don't like it. Do it yourself. Figure it out. I'm going back to digging up bones. Yeah, he said no. I don't want to deal with this anymore. Yeah. And ultimately, like, better for him. Yeah. But it's interesting that that was his Jupiter return. You know, his Jupiter return was like, I'm in the wrong place. I'm in the wrong field. Yeah. And for us, that kind of like sucks. Thanks a lot. Yeah. Because his self-actualization journey means that we don't know who Jack the Ripper is. Right. Yeah. And probably if we had somebody who was like a little more locked in like some of these, some of the people who came in later on. A little more destined to do this. Exactly. A little more of your passion. Right. Right. Yeah. A little more

of your mission, your Dharma, if you will. Yeah. What you were good at. Go with your skill set. And then we have Donald Swanson. So he was in charge of overseeing the Jack Ripper murders. Him and Robert Anderson, who is like probably the funniest character here. I love it. Out to lunch. Yeah. Literally.

He was in Switzerland for most of the murders. Yeah. And then he was like, I have one more family vacation. He's like, I have a little more PTO. He was just going to say. He was like, he'll be utilizing now. He was like, they said if I don't use it, I lose it. It runs out.

I'm going to go. I'll be in Sweden. I'll be right back. Like, damn. So the two of them together, I sort of see them, like, and they work together. They were sort of passing the torch back and forth when Robert Anderson was out. When he was out of office on. Right.

Donald Swanson was coming in. So Donald Swanson, a Leo son, a Capricorn moon. So Robert Anderson, a Gemini son, and a Virgo moon. We've seen that. So it's that reverse of something that we've already started to see. Twice. Yes. Gemini and Virgo.

So what's kind of interesting, because I was musing on this one in particular, where I was like, okay, well, we know that these are important placements for the murder's chart, right? The chart of the murder. Polly Nichols chart. She was the reverse of it. So what does it mean? He also had Neptune and Pluto directly on his. his son. So that signature that we're tracking through all of this, like, he was being activated.

I'm like, he's the murdering. That's why he keeps dipping to Sweden. But he does something interesting in the case, which is that he, obviously, he and Swanson feel a shame for not finding him. So they are the ones who bring in Aaron. Yeah. They're the ones who start talking about Polish Jews. Well, it must be. Yeah. Yeah. And that whole. narrative really begins under their watch. Yep. And to me, you know, when we go back to the story of communication and storytelling, which is the signature of this chart and this whole narrative, it's like this is how you tell a

story, right? You find a scapegoat. Yeah. Also. Yeah. And this is not to say that, you know, I don't want to completely rule out Aaron Kaminsky. Is that his name? Cosminsky.

Husminsky, because there's some really interesting things we have to look at in his chart. There is for sure. And some really like, like your, our heads are going to explode when we see his chart. Oh, I bet. I'm scared. Yeah. And the relationship between Robert Anderson's chart and his chart. Hmm.

So a little spoiler, a little tease, if you will, of what could come. But he establishes him and then Swanson doubles down on it and writes in like the margins of like, it was him. Like his deathbed. Yeah. Right. He did it. He did it.

And I think it's, is it Swanson? Swanson took really, like, detailed, intricate, like, research notes on this case. And he is a moon in Capricorn. Oh, so he is. There you go. So that's why. A Leo son, Capricorn, moon. He was kind of destined for his role in this all.

Yes. Yes. he was very serious. He was very serious about his work, his job. He was very serious about picking up the slack, I think, for Robert Anderson. But ultimately, there were details that he got twisted at the end. Yeah. Just to make the story make sense.

Well, he was also the person who I wrote it here in my notes. He believed it to be Cosminsky, but the death details that he has around him don't add up. He's, when he says that it's Kuzminsky, he already, and he's like, but Kuzminski died a long time ago. He hadn't died yet. Yeah. So he was conflating him with. So he was conflating him with another Polish Jew in the area whose name was Aaron David Cohen, potentially. But then Cohen was sort of the anglicized version of a more Polish name. And at some point, their files were actually together. Two errands become one. Yes, exactly. When Aaron's Kallon. Gemini. Yeah.

More Gemini, energy. Gemini is the twins, right? So there was this sort of like conflating and he's, we're looking to these two people to sort of be like, well, you have all these notes. What do you think, guys? Like, what's your findings? Right. And they can't even get the names right for these people.

Yeah. And to me, then this also goes back to the undercurrent of the, in this sort of subplot of the anti-Semitism in White Chapel. And this makes that graffiti to me really important as a detail of just even time and place. Oh, for sure. Where we have anti-Semitism here in this community. And it's building. And we also, we all know where things go in Europe.

Exactly. Not very long after this, right? So it's an important key details. The direction things are moving in. And then we have an unsolved case. And we have these immigrants in the community who are also going into a, assailums. Yeah.

Maybe for good reasons, maybe for medium reasons, but whatever it is, it's very easy to be like, it was them. Yeah. And they're dead and locked up. And no, it's done. Case closed. I'm talking about it. Yeah.

Nobody else to talk about it anymore. You can all sleep soundly. Yes. And that happens now. Oh, yeah. That happens now where police will rush. It happens less luckily now, but like these big cases will happen and they'll rush to pin it on someone. West Memphis 3 is a key one where he set himself.

I'll be back for those stars. Oh, my God. We should do those stars for sure. Where it was like three eight-year-olds who got murdered. So, of course, the community is up in arms. Once this solve, wants to find out who did it. They found the first three kids they could pin it on. And we're like, so it's fine.

They did it. They're weird. There's not some weirdo. Is this the Damien Eccles? Yeah. That story is crazy. And the police chief, they asked him, he had zero evidence to arrest them. And they asked him at a press conference.

Yeah. The satanic panic. Yeah, and lies. And like false testimonies. They literally asked him on a scale of zero to ten, how tight is your case? And he said, 11. Yeah. And it's like, they didn't have a shred of evidence against these kids.

No physical evidence whatsoever. Sometimes police departments feel like they need to put out that, like, we are so confident about this. So everyone else should be. And it's so stop talking about it. Yeah. In fact, we did this with. You shouldn't have any more questions.

Richard Speck. We just covered that case. They had nothing. They had no leads. absolutely not a shred of evidence, but they came out to the people in the press and said, we're super confident that we have, we have so many leads, leads up the butt. We are, we know what we're doing. Because it's embarrassing for the police, you know, there's a lot of, it's your job. Yeah. It's your job. Yeah. And you have to, and the public can build to a crescendo of chaos. And

there's not a lot of understanding. There's not a lot of room for that. Yeah. So I think that was part of this as they were like, it's fine. He's in an asylum. He's who you thought he was. He's an immigrant. Didn't we all know that? Like that kind of thing. So it just pleases everybody. Like, shut up. It's fine. We did our job. We figured out who the bad guy was. Like, the end. Yeah. So maybe let's look at Aaron's chart here. We need. I'm so excited. And to have our brain rocked. Especially because Aaron is a Virgo son, Gemini Moon. And that is. what Polly was. Whoa.

And where the sun and moon were at the first murder. Whoa. That. Hello. Wow. Wow. That's fucking wild. Damn.

Okay, tell us more. What else could I say? That's it. You're like, I already dropped the mind. You're like, that's it. He's closed. You don't need the mitochondrial. No, I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding. So, you know, It's interesting because obviously he has a very important, he was born September 11th, maybe a tank, I don't know. September 11th, 1865 in somewhere I can't pronounce Poland. Clodawa, Poland. There you go. Bear with me. And he, I wrote, basically I just wrote all over this, has the same sun and moon as Molly Nichols and the same sun and moon as the birth chart for her death and for the first murder.

That's so weird. So what? Yeah, like, what does that mean? What does it mean? Again, that's crazy coincidental. He also had Jupiter in Sagittarius, and Jupiter at the last murder, when we said that Jupiter and Sagittarius was that big crazy energy, it was exact to his. The exact degree?

Exact degree. That's, damn. And there's 30 degrees in each. Yeah, zero to 29. That's weird. I'm just like that. That's weird. And not only that, but remember, a Gemini moon, and especially his is at eight degrees, it was exactly conjunct the Neptune Pluto signature.

Yep. That is this distinctive signature of you. So he is fully, like, he locks in. Yeah, those puzzle pieces that just, yeah, he just locks in. He locks in. And the person who. Is Jack the Ripper Air? The person who...

I know. The person who accused him, Anderson, right? Anderson was the one who first, I think, came up with it, and then Swanson kind of outed him. Yeah, Swanson wrote it in the margins. Yeah, he was like, it was him. He's like, hell yeah. Yeah. Kusminsky.

Hell yeah, brother. So he, remember, he is the reverse of that. Right. So he also, it's like there are these mirror images. So they're sort of circling each other. Like so entwined. So entwined. Yeah, that's pretty wild.

So it's really interesting to me. Yeah. Because so he's a very easy scapegoat, right? Let's hold how the chart shows up as something significant that we can't ignore. And then also recognize that he was nonviolent. He matches the description of somebody who could do this because he was a mentally ill local man. But he did not have a history of any, you know, he does not have a history of violence towards women. He doesn't have the history of violence in general.

He was very frail. One of the issues that one of his mental illness expressions was he refused to eat. So there's reports of him weighing like 98 pounds. Yeah. He's not going to be frenzied for two hours in a room. He couldn't do it. There's no way. And I think it was a barber at one point, which back then barbers did have anatomical knowledge.

To that degree, though. To that degree. And when you add the frailty in it. I just know. Well, here's another piece of the communication is that he basically only spoke Yiddish. Oh. He did not speak English. So he would not be able to write those letters.

Yeah. Or the communication from them just wouldn't. These ladies to go into dark alleys with him. Right. That's true. But that's another communication narrative of this story. Which is Gemini. Yes.

So it's interesting because we have this person who, you know, is kind of. of a perfect storm for someone that we can pin it on, right? But then we also have this shawl that keeps coming back, like the New York Times article about astrology not being real, keeps coming back. This shawl and this evidence, which I know we put your insert in here already. Yeah. But the fact that like this, we can't seem to divorce. We can't get away from it. Yeah, this suspect from this murder. But in my heart, like, it's not him. Yeah.

It just doesn't make sense. I think it's because he's the one, I think Swanson putting that little footnote in there and it being such like a weird little, like, it was him. Right. I think that was the thing that just like you can like hang a hat on that really easily. You know what I mean? Because that's the one that like indoors as the name. Yeah.

But the fact that it was conflated with another name, first of all, they didn't even know who they were talking about there. So we don't even know if he meant this Cosminsky. He got to meant the other guy in time. Yeah. And they were like really old and like writing memoirs. And they were like, yeah, totally. I don't know. The big ending by the book.

There's a couple errands in there. Why not? Well, maybe the whole him fitting so perfectly into the puzzle piece is just you're going to be a part of this forever. He's locked in. Even if you're not the person who did this. going to be associated with it. That is your destiny. Yeah. Part of it. Your destiny is to be another piece of the story. He is part of the story whether or not he is Jack the Ripper. Right. Exactly. And I think that when we look at him in this story and him and Polly Nichols, you know, having the same

sun and moon, the suspect, the alleged murderer and the first victim, and then the sun and the moon being those same points on the first murder, it's like, of course, he would get swept up in the energy of this. Yeah, he's part of the energy of this. Yes, he is. Whether he wants to be or not. And he's also part of the zeitgeist of that moment. Yeah, right.

And him having a Jupiter return at the, you know, at the moment of this final most brutal and horrific murder, is that a tank? You know, is there no coincidences about that? And then suddenly it's like, well, we're going to direct. the attention over here. But also in his life, he was falling apart too. Yeah. Right? In his own potentially separate life, his mental illness was getting worse. He wasn't eating. He had to move back in with his family. Yeah. He was put into an asylum. Mm-hmm. So it's, to me, it's just, it's like sliding doors, you know? Yeah. Yeah. He was put into an asylum in 1891,

and he was listed as a suspect in 1894. So he wasn't even initially listed as a suspect. So to me, what I think is also interesting, it's like these years go by. We have, you know, five plus years now. And we have a person. And I don't think that they had an astrologer working with them at this time. They probably should have.

But they have a person who is the chart for the murder. So it's like, well, here it is. Yeah, throw it all on him. This is the same. And again, it's so easy to do with someone who's been putting in an asylum to just be like, well, he did it. Yeah. Why not? That's why it stopped.

He did it and it stopped. And it's over. And everyone, you can go back to your normal lives. And it's like that narrative fits to a degree where you're just like, well, of course, nothing else happened after this. He's in an asylum. It stopped. But it's like, babe, I don't think he would have kept going anyway. I don't think he needed the

finale. I think that was it. That was the that was the crescendo. That was the apex. That was the finale. That was Elfine. And he was going to be done with it. It's like so I don't think people will say like that's, well, obviously he was in an asylum. That's why he couldn't do anything else. And it's like he wasn't going to. No, that wasn't the plan.

Like that was it. He had done his master plan. Who knows if he started a whole different series of something? Somewhere else. Later or if that was it. Right. And he either killed himself. He got caught doing something else.

Like, whatever. But I don't think he was going to keep going the same way. Well, he also didn't get put into an asylum for another three years. Yeah. So. So it didn't stop him. Yeah. He was doing these in quick succession.

And he would have had to have been completely mad at that point at the end of the Mary Jane Kelly murder. So it wouldn't have taken three years for him to end up. Yeah. I think that it could have been someone who had a similar profile to him. Right. You know, it could have been another local lunatic, obviously. Right.

But, like, it's not. I don't think that it's. based on even just the physical description and what the manifestations of his mental illness were, I don't think it could have physically been him. We need to have the strength. Stamina. To do this. All of the above.

And again, the knowledge, the patience, a steady hand. Yeah. They had all these things. Yeah. But now my favorite person on the case comes in. So my favorite is Aberlene. Yes. Do you like Aberlene too?

I do. Yes. I love him. We talked a whole bunch about him. Yeah. So Aberlene comes in and is like, step aside. I got this. I got this.

Hell yeah. So, you know why you love Aberlene? He's a Capricorn. Oh. Of course he's got this. Of course he says step aside. He said, shut the hell up, everybody. He said, this is a solo investigation now.

So he's a Capricorn, solo investigation. He's a Capricorn son and he's an Aries moon. Oh. But this rocked me. So his moon and Pluto, which, you know, we've talked about Pluto, are conjunct in his chart. So moon and Aries, Pluto and Ares in his chart. And when I was jotting down, you know, when I was just sort of musing on this, I wrote very strong connection to women. And he, this energy could almost express itself as wanting to be like an avenger.

The hero. The hero. Oh, yeah. And then as I was, you know, pulling up his bio and understanding his role, I found that he was raised by a single mom. Yep. Wow. Yeah. I remember talking about that.

I got goosebumps because I was like, oh my gosh, he understood the humanity of this case in a way that some of these other guys just like they were thinking about their own ego. They were thinking about their vacation days. They were just not locked in. They weren't locked in. But he was locked in. And something that also was an interesting testament to that was the fact that he would patrol the streets himself and also with his you know with other police officers that he would sort of

put in charge of that and they would give women money to go into shelters for the night and to have beds so that while they didn't know what was going on that they could be safe in the middle of the night so he was like actively trying to protect like an avenger for women like literally yeah so if i were to like cast this we would make this sort of the uh the hero sort of mirror image to the Jack the Ripper who hates women, right? Who is the antithesis of this, who hates women. So it's to me like seeing that moon, Pluto in Aries's signature. And then he also has the sun conjunct Saturn, both in Capricorn in his chart, very serious, very committed.

Also, you know, if I were to see this in a chart of just anybody now, I would say like, oh, you were the, you had to be the parent of your household. You know, you were probably very, you had to grow up really fast and take on a lot of responsibilities. That obviously checks out for his upbringing. You know, his dad died when he was young and he was raised by his single mom, right? So he had to figure out how to take matters into his own hands. Take on his father's role. Take on the father's role.

And he kind of, you know, in this story of all of these different inspectors, sort of became the only one who, who really, I feel like, was sensitive to the conditions. and he believed that George Chapman was Jack the Ripper. Yeah. And George Chapman, who we have his chart, who is a serial, who is a serial killer, hates women. Ding, ding, me. Boom. And like you said that was his finale, but maybe he started doing stuff elsewhere. He could have done something else.

Because I don't think after that you're going to stop killing entirely. No, I don't think you just have fun with that, you know. There's definitely something, something there. But yeah, I think he maybe switched to a different place or he switched to a different M.O. You know? So George Chapman, who was executed for the murders that he ended up being convicted for, which was three women who were his mistresses.

And he basically, you know, he would poison them to death. Yeah. But he was also very, very violent. and he was very physically abusive to all of the women. But he was a womanizer. He had lots of relationships and women around him. And he was jumping from one marriage, the next, and making women call themselves his wife. And then he was bringing other women home.

And it's like basically he was trying to have a herm. Yeah, right? And he was a serial killer, right? So he was born on December 14th, 1865, making him a Sagittarius. And also meaning that he was connected to as well that Jupiter, in Sagittarius energy that we saw building, right, that crescendo of energy. His son in Sagittarius is going to be amplified by Jupiter. And Sagittarius is the opposite of Gemini. And we had that Neptune, Pluto, Gemini signature. So he's also directly locked in, too. So to me,

I think that he fits in to this puzzle as well. Yeah, definitely. And he has a moon in Scorpio and a Saturn conjunction to his moon in Scorpio. My note here is he hates women. Yeah, he does. Because just in the way that we talked about the moon and Capricorn being really harsh and sort of like having no emotions. The moon in Scorpio is also, it's considered to be in its fall in this placement. It is like a dark energy. Yeah, there's shame.

There's weird sex stuff. There's weird power stuff. There's weird probably Oedipus things. of wanting to have sex with your own mother things. You know, like there's a very, a very dark and complicated relationship with women to any of our Moon and Scorpio people listening. It doesn't necessarily mean you. I'm not talking about you.

I'm talking about a serial killer. Yeah. Right. Perfect set of circumstances. Also, not to mention that there's a meme that lists the astrological signs of, like, all of the most iconic serial killers, and they're all mutable signs. They're all Virgo's, Gemini, Sagittarius or Pisces. Because you have to have that sort of like changeability.

Duality. Yes. Of course, we also have Aaron, who is a Virgo son. So he would also fit that bill as well. But you know what, George, it's interesting because like one of the things that I remember being like against him that people were like, no, it's not him. Is they were like, he's not going to do these brutal eviscerations and then switch to poisoning his wives.

Like those are two different MOs. And it's like, maybe he is. Or. Because he was done here. Well, and also, or he looked at those other, the canonical five. Those aren't his wives. That's what I was thinking too. Those are sex workers.

So he's going to rip them apart and make them not human anymore. His wives, he treats them horribly. But they get a step up. Because they're associated with him. They get the more like, you know, higher class way of dying. And he also gets to watch them die slowly. Yes. And even more to your point, there are the same.

sex workers who he just totally brutalizes. There are the mistresses that he poisons and brutalizes. And then there are his wives that he just physically abuses, just. But there is a hierarchy. There is a hierarchy. He is literally triaging how he kills these people. Which even lends itself, too, to the fact that he went into this with a plan. And that's why maybe there really was just supposed to be for.

And he's methodical in the way that he planned this whole thing. Yeah, I think I believe he went in. thinking he was going to get four. It's almost like different projects for him. Yeah. And I think that once, I mean, where do you go after that last murder? Yeah. That's the thing.

You're not just going to go do that again. And there is the same sort of like precise sort of, you know, he's dosing them. There is this obsession with detail and the anatomy and the body. if there's a clinical nature to it. He was a barber, I think at one point. I was just going to ask what he was. I think he was also a barber, which back then, barbers did have anatomical knowledge.

That was a... Yeah, it's like barber surgeon. Yeah, literally like a barber surgeon. Like the barber pole, that's like the red pole and white pole. The red is because they used to hang bloody rags outside and it looked like that pole. So that's a representation of that. Yeah. Yeah, and I think it was like an artery in a vein.

I think is also what it's like blue and blue. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Yeah. So, so I mean, valid. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I would say that of all of these suspects, the strongest. Yes. And also because we have Aberlene, Frederick Aberlene, who is like the women Avenger. Yeah. And he's the one who says, I know someone who hates women. Yeah. And I know someone, like, as someone who loves women, I've decided that he loves women. I can spot some. But I can spot some. I feel it. I feel like it's just a single mom who works too hard. Right.

And he like, and he's giving money to the women. Oh, we don't hear about any other character doing that. You have to be a lovely person. And think about the time period back then of like, those women were not respected by many people at all. Especially not law enforcement.

Like, exactly. This is a high standing man in society like helping out, you know. Did we just. Wait, not to mention that his last name, why didn't I notice this? It's Chapman, Annie Chapman.

That's his, Anglesi's name. His real last name is Klosowski. Which is pretty close to Kuzminski. That's real close to Kosminski. Yeah. So could these have just been like clear? Could there be a lot of like clerical? Which would be so Mercury Gemini Virgo-Code. And very of that moment. Of that moment and that happens all the time in cases like this, especially the ones that we talk about that

take forever to get solved. Nine out of ten times. there is a clerical error involved. Yes, that fucked everything up and they figure it out. Yeah. Wow, that's really fascinating, actually. I got to look even further into George Chapman, and we got to like- Guys, we're about to do eight-or-part. When he died, he had no remorse. Yeah. He had no care. He never, he was like, he didn't say any last words. That's why, and it had to have been someone like that. And also think of that, he didn't say any last words. And we have storytelling in words as like a piece here. So the only thing, I mean, there's a lot of things that would weaken this case. But one of them is that I do feel like in those murders in 1888

in those five, like there was just such a desire to be caught. Yeah. I can't shake that feeling. Yeah. That whoever, which would make me feel like whoever it was could have just like off themselves right after. You know, and the reason we don't know who it is. Yeah, is just somebody who just like couldn't deal with the insanity that they were going through, which obviously they had to be. Yeah. Because why did it stop? You could say it stopped because it switched. Yeah, because then he went to poisoning.

Yeah. Right. Right. Right. They could have. Just try a little bit of everything. Yeah. Why not?

See what it fits. It's like little projects. Yeah. Little projects. Wow. Might be George Chapman. I mean, I think it could be. That was fascinating.

You're so good. You are so good. You are like my astrology. I'm sitting here like, I got to get this good. I'm like, goddamn, wild. Well, I mean, this is, it's a real treat. Yes. To solve a 150-year-old murder.

It's not every day. On this beautiful couch. Hell yeah. That's what we're doing here today. That was so cool. Lisa, that was insane. Thank you so much for that. I think we just solved it.

Now I need to look into George Chapman and I need to make it, we got to make a real case. Yeah, we got to get on the Australian wire. We got it. We got to get with our clickbait. We figured it out. Yeah. We contact them over there. Forget the shawl.

Look at the charts. The shawl doesn't exist. What are you talking about? It's a table runner. I'm pretty sure. Stop. That was cool. Well, weirdos, we have more stuff upcoming with Elisa.

We're actually about to record something entirely different. Yeah. But it's going to be a little while before that comes out. So keep your eyes peeled. So before we let you go, is there anything you want to plug? I would love for you all to listen to my podcast. Yeah. Like I comment.

It's called Horoscope Weekly. Episodes come out every Monday and every Wednesday. Our Monday episodes are horoscopes for every single sign. And they also talk about the astrology weather of the week ahead. And there's a theme of the week that we work with. And then the Wednesday episodes are where we learn astrology. We talk about how astrology impacts our lives. We go into things like moon signs and the houses and Saturn.

And, you know, you could do all of this. You can solve cases too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Check it out. Do it. Listen to Horoscope Weekly and solve murders. Yeah. Let's go.

Honey's, we leave you with that. So we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you're Jack the Ripper. Yeah, not that weird. Yeah. Don't ever keep it that weird. Don't be that weird.