Morbid - That Time I Met A Murderer II ft. Bailey Sarian

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

We have another fantastic batch of listener tales about the time some of our listeners MET a MURDERER!!! Only this one is super special because we are joined by the exquisite Bailey Sarian!! How fucking exciting. This batch of tales includes a tattoo from a murderer, a present from a murderer and oh no... a date with... a SERIAL KILLER!Check out Murder, Mystery & Makeup & listen to Dark History anywhere you get your podcasts! Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. What, what? This is a two-parter for sure because there's just too much. A two-part bummer. A real bummer of an episode. We're going to be covering today the really, really tragic and awful case of Matthew Shepard. And this happened in 1998. Obviously, we're going to go into it in a minute, but I was like 13 years old at the time. So I remember this vividly when this happened. Yeah, I was three, so I don't remember it happening. But I do remember, like, learning about this in high school. And if you've ever seen the Play the Laramie project, that will ruin you. So, so well, this episode. Yeah. And I think I was talking about it with John earlier, and he was like 15 or 16 at the time. So he was in the same

kind of boat I was where he remembers it like really vividly. And he kept saying to me, I just remember that one photo they kept showing of him, Like it just like burned in my brain that like it's this black and white like kind of professionalish kind of photo of him. And he just looks like really sweet and handsome. It's just very like he's just sweet. And it's just in it like, oh, this one's really going to. This one's going to be a tough one. I think I'll probably end up crying at something. Yeah.

I was literally, I burst into tears at one point while I was researching it. So I remember watching that play in my high school auditorium. I'm like bawling my eyes out. It's a tough one. And just to warn straight up ahead of time. there are a couple of parts in this podcast where I am going to have to be discussing hate speech. We're going to be, I'm just going to be saying a word that can be a little triggering for people. I know it's triggering for me.

I don't like the word. Yeah, I hate this word, but it's important. I think it's important that I read what this, you know, the people who did this to Matt actually said. So you can really get a feel for how awful they are. I don't want to like censor it to take away from. the brutality of what they say. But I will, before I say it, I'm going to say, hey, it's coming, just so you guys know. So it's not just like banging it in the face because I know sometimes hearing certain words can be like, so I understand that. But just wanted to let you guys know.

Before we jump into this case, we just wanted to quickly update on our show situation, because people have been asking. So we just wanted to give a quick update just to give you what we have so far. So we'll just run through this quick. And then for Patreon's asking, we are going to be shouting out some names at the end of this episode. Yes. So on August 11th, we are going to be at the Punch Line Comedy Club in Philadelphia. But that's going to change. Yeah, we will not be there. August 11th. I always say we're going to be there. But that's just the kind of like placeholder date. That's our placeholder date that is going to be moved. So if you have tickets for the Philly show in August, it's going to be moved up again. Hold on to those tickets. We're working. We're. We're going to be. We're going to be. We're going to be. We're on it. September 16th, we're going to be at the DC Improv in Washington, D.C. So far, that's happening. September 23rd, Zanies and Nashville, two shows going on there. Let's hope we can get there in the fall, guys. I know, seriously. September 24th, stand up live in Huntsville, Alabama. Alabama. We're coming for you regardless of when it is. Regardless. October 11th, two shows at Talia Hall, Spooky, spooky in Chicago.

Come on, give us that spooky time date. So excited. November. 10th at the Comedy Zone in Charlotte, North Carolina. Charlotte. November 11th at the Good Nights Comedy Club in Raleigh, North Carolina. Raleigh, what coming? March 26th. Yes, I remembered which number three represents this week at the Wilbur Theater, the Wilbur Theater in Boston. And remember, buy tickets to that, guys.

There's tickets left, and we want to pack that place out because now we have all this time to prepare for it, so it's going to be a crazy show. Oh, my God, I literally can't wait. And then last but not least, we are going to have a show on January 27th at ComedyWorks South in Greenwood Village, Colorado. We are. So, Denver, or Colorado, we are coming for you. I know, I always want to say Denver when I talk about Colorado. It's just like the first thing I think of it. But Colorado, we're coming for you. January 27.

Let's get it. All right. So I'm going to start the case. So everybody hold on to your butts. With extra care. Yes. October 7th, 1998, Aaron Cryfels was only 19 years old, and he was a student. He's just riding his mountain bike near what is currently pilot peak and snowy view roads in Laramie, Wyoming.

The street names were changed after Matthew's murder. That sounds like such a peaceful place. Right. And that's like to find something so horrifying. Yeah. So they're pilot peak and snowy view roads now. And also the, the fair. that is involved in this case is no longer there.

Good. So you can't go. Nobody can go look at it or anything. I don't really, I wouldn't want to. Yeah, but you just never know. I just wanted to tell people, don't go look for it. You can. So initially, Aaron had hit something with his bike, and he had flown, like, over the

handlebars and onto the ground. Oh, geez. And so he got up. He's, like, dusting himself off. And he just looks around really quick. And he notices something kind of flopped against the fence. This area was surrounded by buck fences, which are fences. everybody's seen one for sure.

It's fences built with like wooden posts that are placed in an X and then the other posts are kind of laid against it. Yep, yep. It's like what you kind of see in like Western movies and stuff. It's like that fence that you picture. I just think of Tom Sawyer when I think of fences. It's not that fence at all. It's not.

No. But it's like what you would see in like a Western movie or like in the prairie. Yeah. It's just the kind of fence. When you're just stumbling through the prairie. Yeah, like a tumbleweed's going to blow by. Like that's what you think of. Yeah. So Aaron saw something crumpled along the fence near him. And when he first noticed it, he assumed it was a Halloween prop.

He thought it was a scarecrow someone had put out there to scare people. And honestly, he was like, shit, it was scary. So he's like, I had to take a harder look because I was like, ooh, that's like a scary prop. He takes a harder look and he sees that it was covered in blood and dirt and not fake blood or fake dirt. So he's like starting to get some senses here. So now he says he saw real hair. And then he saw that the scarecrow was slightly breathing. Oh, my God. And he said he could see the chest moving up and down very slowly and very labored, but it was moving nonetheless. So he realized it was a human being. And he immediately called police.

Right. Now, Officer Reggie Flutie was the first officer on scene, and she is a fucking legend. Really? Legend. This woman made me want to hug her. Like, her interviews are so july. genuine and she was so selfless in her care of Matthew at the scene. In the documentary, which I recommend everybody watch, it'll just like, it touches your soul. It's called Matt Shepard

is a friend of mine. In this documentary, Reggie explains what happened when she arrived and it goes like this. So she said she couldn't drive all the way up to the fence because she said it was it was like hard terrain. So she drove as far as she could. And then she walked all the way. the way or really ran because when she saw him and she she immediately which i'll talk about in a second she thought this was a younger child when she first saw him so she said she went on foot she ran all the way back to him he was on his back with his hands tied behind his back and then tied to the fence and she said blood was absolutely everywhere she said he had clearly been brutally beaten she couldn't even see facial features she said the one thing she could see and this is like

this part really got to me. The one thing she could see is that on both of his cheeks, the only place that there wasn't blood, were the trails where his tears had washed it away. Oh, my God. And she said, like, she literally said there were two trails where tears had just streamed down his face and washed it clean.

You would never be the same again after stumbling upon that. No. And she said when, and somebody asked her in the documentary, you know, you've seen photos of Matt now. Did he look like? No, of course not. him and she said absolutely not he looked deformed how do you do that to somebody oh you'll find out so now

one thing that also made me like tear up about her interview was that she said when she walked up after noticing matt she noticed a big doe deer lying like near him and she said it was like in a bush a little bit but laying down and she said this deer didn't run away as she ran up to mat and she said she just watched me slowly. And she goes, and then she slowly stood up and trotted away. Because she was like, okay, help us come. And she said, so Flutie said, this made her feel good because she said, okay, he wasn't alone. And hopefully he knew that this dough was there. And she said she felt like this dough was like looking over him until someone came. Wow. Yeah. So she said, the first thing she thought of was that due to his stature, he must have been about 12 years old. Like she was literally like, this is a

little boy. Right. In reality, Matthew was 21 years old, but he was small. He was about barely 5.3, which is barely taller than me. Yeah. And everyone's always commenting like Elena's like the smallest thing ever. He was barely taller than me. And I think he at like, he was at his most, he was like 110 pounds. Right. He's a very tiny dude. So she called for backup and then took it very, and they obviously all took it very seriously because they thought they were dealing with a legitimate child. Yeah. Which is probably good, I guess, that they thought he was a child because it got everybody moving a little faster.

I'm not saying they wouldn't have moved fast, but I'm sure it worked out how it should of. Yeah, it puts up the little red alerts. Right. So while waiting for backup to arrive, Flutie said she just went into life-saving mode, and she was like, I just wanted to keep Matt alive as long as I could so he could get to the hospital. Right.

Like, I wanted to make sure when he was with me, he was alive. He was alive. So she also was very concerned with him not feeling like he was alone. Yeah. And she kept saying, I wanted him to know that I was there and that I was there to help him. So she kept being like, I'm here. You're not alone. I'm here with you now.

I'm here. He deserved that. Anybody does. Right? And so she threw on the last pair of medical gloves provided by her sheriff's department. And she started clearing away Matt's airways of black. Because there was just blood in his nose and his throat. He was gurgling on it.

So she said she just was trying to get the blood out so he could get anything out of there. Well, the gloves were faulty. And they started breaking. And she didn't care. She just kept going with her bare hands. Good for her. So she kept going anywhere, ways cleared his airways of all the blood that had built up. And she had cuts on her hands because she had built a shed the day before because she's just like a superwoman.

She's just doing everything. And she wasn't even concerned with her. own well-being. She just helped Matt. She just helped him. Like, she's legit a hero. Because that's what you're supposed to do as a first response. I mean, that's above and beyond, obviously. But it's like, I wish all people were like that. But to have that mentality of just like altruism, like, I'll do I'm just going to, I'm doing what I have to do to keep this person alive. Right. Now, we'll back up. All the way back to December 1st, 1976 in Casper, Wyoming. Is that his birthday? When Matthew Wayne Shepard was born to Judy and Dennis Shepard. He had a younger brother named Logan, who he was very

close to. They were total opposites, I guess. Logan was tall, he was athletic, but he was also a bit of an introvert. And Matt was very tiny, not athletic at all, and loved to be around people. Really? But they balanced each other really well, and they just got along. Yeah. And there's a lot of, in like, the documentaries I was watching, there's a lot of, like, home videos. And they just have, like, this cute brother relationship where like Logan's the little brother who's always wanting to be around Matt. Like it's just really cute. I always love that. Yeah. So his mother said that when Matt was little, he liked to, he loved to do creative things. He was always writing. He was always like acting. He was very like, like theatrical. Yeah. And he loved to write poetry. So he would write poetry for the neighbors

and leave the poems in their mailboxes. Stop. And then I guess I think it was like his grandfather or something was like a postmaster and told him like technically you have to put a stamp on it because it's illegal. He's like, grandpa, I'm just, I'm being philanthropic. Yeah, he's like, I'm six. Just let me do it. So he was like, okay, cool. I'll just find beautiful rocks and I'll leave these people beautiful rocks. Oh my God. So his mother was like, yeah, so he just like left them like clearly an empath of the highest degree. Oh yeah. And then his mother also said it took him a long time, which we'll get into, to come out to anyone. Right, including his closest friends, his family, anyone.

I think even to himself, to be honest. But his mother said she knew from a very young age that he was gay. Mom's just know. Yeah, moms just know. And she said, in one of the interviews, she's like, I know this seems very, like, stereotypical and I hope I'm not being like, she's like, I hope I'm not like being cliche here or like offending anyone. But she said his favorite Halloween costume was Dolly Parton.

That's incredible. And she was like, he was her many times for Halloween. And then he would dress up, like, not on Halloween as her. Oh, my God. And he was, she was like, and obviously that doesn't like make you gay. But she was like, but it definitely made me think like maybe. Yeah. You know, it could be a possibility. Right. So like, like, like, Matt was very small in stature. I mentioned he was like five three. At the time of his murder, he was like only like barely 101 pounds. He was tiny. So he was an athletic. And he did get teased. bit when he was younger, like just normal stuff. But he didn't seem to have any real problems getting people to see his like sweet and caring personality. He was a good person. He would win people over a lot. Right. His family says he was actually elected peer counselor in school and he made friends very easily. In fact, he was voted friendliest in his high school class. There you go. So he definitely like he, he was a charmer. He was sweet. He was caring. People obviously liked him. Yeah. People said he just cared a lot about people. And he loved. Like, he's one of those people who thrived on being around people.

So his friends said he enjoyed acting in all the school plays. He was really interested in politics. That was something he got really interested in from a young age, too. And he loved to read the newspaper. He was a big newspaper kid. So, like, he could, like, keep up with adults with, like, current events, news, politics. Like, he was, like, up on it. That's awesome.

And he had big dreams of getting out of Casper, Wyoming and being something great. But he wanted to help people, too. That was like part of his plan. And so, and again, he was really informed. So he had, like, all the tools to do it. And in fact, one of his dreams was either he wanted to be famous for something. And which, unfortunately, later, everybody was like, well, Matt always wanted to be famous. Like, his friends were like, this is not the way we wanted him to be famous.

But he also wanted to be like a diplomat and, like, really make change. Good. I love that. So noble. Now, well, and in a way, I guess he did. He did, he very much informed change and, like, created, I mean, he created new legislation. Obviously not in the way that he wanted to, but. No.

But luckily, something came out of it, you know. Right. So the family had their sons. They attended public school in Casper until Matt's junior year of high school, which was in 1994. Okay. So in 1994, Dennis, who's Matt's father, got a job as an oil rig inspector with a Saudi Arabian company. Oh, wow. So he moved the family to Saudi Arabia. Now, they said, I mean, this was, I mean, his senior year of high school. That stinks. And but it didn't though. Okay. Because first of all,

the parents, I'm like, kudos to you. They were like, we wanted them to see more than Wyoming. And we wanted them to, and they were like, we also wanted them to see more than the United States. Right. We wanted them to see other cultures. We wanted them to be worldly and appreciate other people for their differences and we wanted to make them try to work through the hard, you know, the culture shock that you get by living somewhere else. We wanted them to figure out how to deal with it. When it seems like because of like who Matt was, he'd be pretty down to do that. And he, he thrived. I could see that happening. So for his senior year of high school, he actually attended the American school in Switzerland, which is a boarding school. Okay. Because Saudi Arabia

But Ravia didn't have any American high schools at that point. Matt loved it there. Like, loved it. Really? He had tons of friends. He ended up telling his mother that he met the best people he would ever meet in his life at that boarding school. Oh, my God, I love that. He made, like, life a lot.

Like, they were friends afterwards. I mean, he had amazing experiences. At this point, he still wasn't out. Like, he was not out to his friends. People knew, though. Like, his friends were, like, I knew. I've been around him. like I spend so much time with him.

You know, I mean, like, one of my best friends, I remember, like, when she finally told me, my reaction was like, I know. And I was like, I just wanted you to feel comfortable telling me. So I'm glad. I literally said, like, can we go get pizza now? I remember when I told you that I was going on a date with Annie, you were like, okay, cool. Yeah, I was like, awesome. Like, that's great.

Tell me how it goes. Like, when you're close to someone, sometimes you know before they're willing to tell you. Right. And it's just one of those things you have to let them tell you. And they're, yeah. You don't push somebody. Yeah, never try to force someone. Just wait until they feel good about it and they'll tell you eventually.

If they feel safe with you. If you're supposed to know, you're going to know. If they feel safe enough to tell you, they'll tell you. So his friends knew, but he was obviously not out. And this boarding school that they went to had this thing where they like to send kids to like different countries and different places for like an almost like an abroad kind of thing. Yeah. And they just wanted them to like broaden their views, get new experiences. That's what it was all about.

So he was like abroad going abroad. Exactly. So Matt and his friends chose Morocco. Mm-hmm. Even though the school was a bit hesitant because of safety concerns, because it just wasn't like, it didn't seem like the safest place to just send a bunch of like American teens over. Right. So unfortunately, something terrible did happen there.

Oh, really? Now, his friends say that everything was going well. They were loving it. They were trying to be as safe as possible, staying in groups. but Matt knocked on their friend's door at 2 a.m. one night, screaming. Oh, no. And so they opened the door and they're like, what is going on? And he's shirtless, he's shoeless, and he's screaming and sobbing.

And when he was able to speak to them, he had taken a, he said, and let me just preface this, trigger warning, rape. So just know that there's that. When he was able to speak to them, he said, I went out to take a walk just to like, you know, know, cool my, cool my thoughts. Yeah. Just kind of like, and he said when he was on his way back to the hotel, he was just pulled into an alley by six men who robbed him and raped him. Oh, my God.

His friends said, obviously, this incredibly horrific violation changed him completely as a person. Right, obviously. His mother said he really retreated into himself. He didn't want to tell anyone else. Like, he was, they said he came back to school and it was, he was, like, haunted. That's like a horrific experience. Horrific. That's not even like a good word for it.

It's like there is no word for that. Nightmare. Right. And his, I mean, people said that like he was even, I think his mother said something along the lines of like he even took on the posture of a victim. Like he was, he slumped over and he kind of like hid himself into himself. Like a protecting thing. Yeah. Which he said was totally not Matt. Yeah.

And so that was that was a really, really, really traumatizing and awful thing. that happened to him, he had, again, at this point, still hadn't come out to anyone, really. He was very much closeted. He came out to his mother, his freshman year of college at Kataba College in Salisbury, North Carolina. His mom handled it with total love and acceptance. Good. I love that. Which he was worried about, I guess, before. He had told the guidance counselor, like, I'm worried my parents will just, like, totally disown me. I think even when you know what your parents' reaction is going to be, like, there's always a hesitancy there. I'm Sure. Is that a word? hesitancy? Yeah. Sure. And also, you know, this is,

Wyoming is not, like, known as being, like, super, you know, I mean, they're, like, somewhat conservative. Yeah, it wasn't very progressive. But they're really not known for being, like, anti, you know what I mean? Like, that's not something they're really, I think they have, like, their motto is something like, live and let live or something like that. But I think, I think it's most, but I think they're, one of the people I saw in one of the documentaries was like, I think it's the live and let live is like, I'm going to live and you can live, but like live way over there. And like, don't tell me about it. Like, don't let me see you live in. So I think it's a little bit of live. Yeah. So I think he was a little concerned. You just don't know. Right. You don't know.

And I think his dad was a real like dudes, dude. So I think he was a little worried that he might be like disappointing him in some way or something. I remember like it's not the same time as right now. No. For sure. So he tells his mom. His mom's totally fine. Totally. This tells him, I love you, Matt. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't change the fact that you're my son and I love you. And so I guess Matt was like, you know, let me tell dad. Right. Don't tell him.

I want to tell him. So his mom was like, I promise, I won't. And then she was like, and then I immediately told his dad because she said not to be a dick. Right. She was like, I did it because I know sometimes people can react in the moment. She was like, I didn't want him to say something to Matt that he couldn't take back later. Right. Just in the moment.

Just say something. The wrong thing. Yeah. She was like, I just didn't want him blindsided. because she was like, I didn't know what the reaction was in. Right. He could say something just off the cuff that would be very damaging. Even without meaning to.

Exactly. It could be very damaging without him intending it. You could say like the smallest thing to somebody when they come out to you and it could be taken the wrong way or. Exactly. You know. And that's why she was like, so I told him just so like he would have a buffer. I kind of like that. Which I do love that she did that.

I think that was a good like mom move. She was protecting her son. That's a good mom move. That's a mom. She was like protecting both of them. She was protecting, you know, she was protecting their relationship. That's a matriarch right there. That is.

Good for Judy. So he tells his mom and his dad, or he tells his dad, and his dad literally said that he was like, Dad, I have something really important to tell you. And he said, I'm gay. And Dennis was like, okay. And then he was like, what's the really important thing you had to tell me? I love that. And he said the same thing.

Right. He was like, I, you're my son. Right. That's all that matters. You're my son. You're a human being. Which is like, that couldn't have gone better. No, that's the perfect way for it to go.

And I think this gave him a lot of like super, you know, sorry if you're going to hear a squeaky chair, guys. I got to move my bed. I got to readjust actually, too. So I think this gave him a lot of confidence now to feel like, okay, this was the big hurdle. And now I can start trying to be a little more open about this. And maybe it kind of brought him back to life a little bit to know that he was accepted. Oh, I think it definitely did because then he started coming out to a couple of friends, like very close. friends. He was still very, like, concerned about it being, like, super. Yeah. But he moved to Denver for

about a year. And this is, he did go kind of, he kind of slid back a little. He went through, this was only for about a year, but he went through some severe periods of depression. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense based on everything that he had gone through. Yeah. He was still, I think he was still very much reeling from that experience. And at one point, so they said, like, you know, friends would show up and he'd just be, like, on the couch for days. They couldn't get a hold of him. Or, it's be so sad. But then he goes through periods of being like Matt.

Really high highs and low lows. They said being like super high highs, super low lows. And they all kind of like knew he was obviously going through something. Right. To be expected. And he was very, he was Episcopalian and his family was. And they were very involved in like church and everything. And he went to a church at this point at one point that was near his home.

It wasn't an Episcopalian church. But he went in there and he asked whoever was there. you know, I'm having trouble, I'm struggling. Yeah. Like being gay. I'm having struggle with it. I'm having trouble telling people. Right.

Just make me feel better about this. And whoever it was in there basically told him like it was a sin and you're going to burn in hellfire. Cool. So are you. And like you're disgusting. And basically treated him like a diamond. And this person like it just shook his core.

That makes me so mad. Because he cared about the church. And he was like to have them, somebody from a church where it's supposed to be the safe place? Right. Like sanctuary. It's supposed to be a sanctuary. And he's going in there being like, please just tell me that it's okay, that I'm okay. I just, if you're, like, you're not affected by somebody else being gay. It does literally nothing to you. So like, why is me loving who I love going to make me go to hell? Like that doesn't make sense. It does. And not one person on this earth will ever convince me that they have any business being involved in somebody else's relationships.

Right. So that bummed him out. But then he transferred to the, University of Wyoming as a political science major. Okay. He really, really thrived here. Really? So he went there. He immediately got involved in stuff on campus. His friend Jim Osborne said in the Matt Shepard is a friend of mine doc that Matt immediately created a mentoring program for the school to help new students. I love that, particularly LGBTQ students. So he was very invested in just helping them transition into the school, giving them a place where they could feel like comfort. He seemed to really settle in. He was really feeling good mentally emotionally. He started, he stated to several people only weeks and days before his murder that he was

finally feeling safe in Wyoming. Oh my God. Yeah. So October 6th, 1998, Matt had met with the LGBTQ group at the University of Wyoming and they were planning a celebration for the upcoming gay awareness week. They were like planning a bunch of events because he was part of this whole thing. Right. Very exciting. And they're on their way home. He decides he wants to stop and have a drink at the fireside bar.

Okay. And he went around eight or nine and he was like, does anyone else want to come with me? And they were all like, no, we have to like run and go, you know, we have to, you know, study. We have to go to sleep. We have to do this. Not everybody had an excuse. And so he was like, all right, well, I'm just going to stop and have a beer. and so he stops around eight or nine around and he's just sitting there I think the bartender said he like just came up to the bar had a beer just sat and like just chatted with him a little bit it was very just like just living his own life and he said he had seen him before coming by himself and like just sit and have a drink and then he would just go home yeah it wasn't like it's a very normal thing so around 10 or 11 p.m. two straight up monsters mm-hmm 21 year old russell henderson and 21 year old erin mckinney walked into the bar okay

They were roofers. They were, like, very sporadic with their work. The bartender said they bought a pitcher with dimes and nickels. Oh. And the bartender was like, I was really hoping they didn't have any more dimes and nickels because I did not want to deal with that again. So he was like, I was really hoping they were just going to leave after this. Right. But the under sheriff Rob Debris and Sheriff Dave O'Malley both describe Aaron McKinney as someone who got in trouble a lot was basically just a strange.

up asshole. A degenerate. Like, everyone just knew him as a dick. Yeah. Russell was quiet and was a follower. Oh, good. Yeah. And McKinney had recently had a baby, a son.

Are you kidding? With his girlfriend and had dropped out of high school. He was known, again, as an asshole who liked to fight. He had already been in trouble for burglarizing a Kentucky fried chicken. What? And making off with $2,500. Wow. Kentucky fried chicken's doing well.

Right? Okay. They also, he was also spent time in a juvenile detention center, like three months or something like that for stealing from a cash register. Too bad he didn't get stuck there. Yeah. And he was actually waiting for a sentence from the Kentucky fried chicken theft. Was he? Yep.

And when he was arrested for this. And he was also openly homophobic and racist. If you're openly, if you're homophobic at all or racist, but to be open about it is like, wow. Oh, cool. He was a straight up asshole. What is wrong with you? Yeah, so much. There's so much wrong with this dude.

So Russell Henderson was a high school dropout with a ton of DUIs and driving offenses. But he started out as a junior high honors student. What happened? Very well-rounded kid. Apparently lived with his grandparents at one point and was like super respectful, helpful. Even neighbors were like he was a good kid. So like don't be a follower. And that's the thing.

People are like, I can't see him. doing this. Like they were like, and then they're like, I can't see him leading this. Right. And so people were like, I know he's like really, he gets led astray. And it's like, okay, that's all well and good. But like, you have to be, there has to be some evil in you. If you're going to follow someone to this, the depths of this. Like, I'm sorry. We've all been in situations where I'm sure we followed a crowd. Yeah. And like junior high and stuff like that, like done something that we're like, you're not proud of. I probably shouldn't have done that. Right. I just followed a lot. with the popular kids. But not this. But you don't fucking murder someone. If you're murdering someone,

then you wanted to. That's just the end of it. So people who knew him did say he never expressed hatred for gay people or bigotry of any kind. But again, he was a true follower. He didn't have an original fucking thought of his own. Well, it was obviously there if he did what he did. Yeah, he just, and honestly, ignorance is not an excuse. No. It's just not. Now, they both said that they saw the two of them, Russell and Aaron, they saw Matt and they thought he must have money. Mm-hmm. Like just obviously. And we only have nickels and dimes.

Exactly. And they knew he was gay. And so they said they went into the bathroom and they discussed it. They were going to act like they were gay. And they were going to rob him. Okay. Which it's like really? To pay for like another pitcher.

Exactly. So. And it's like. Why don't you just like consecutively fix roofs instead of doing it here and there? Well, and also like just I hate. I hate people who steal. Right. Like just get a job. Well, and it's like not even that. It's not even like just get a job because sometimes it's hard to get a job. Yeah. But like, but don't steal. Don't steal from other people. Like this is just like, that's not right. I hate people who steal. Well, and I think if I honestly think that if they had said like, hey buddy, can we like grab 10 bucks? Matt probably would have given it to them. Honestly, and that's and we will find out that they don't really have to do anything for him to give up his wallet. Right. He literally gives it up. Right. He offers it to them. So they feel. figured, you know, they're going to pretend they're gay, they're going to lure him out of the bar. And the bartender remembers them all leaving together.

He said, I saw Matt and them talking. He said, I thought it was a little weird because when they came up to order the pitcher, Matt was at the bar and they never interacted. Right. But then all of a sudden, they were talking. So he's like, they obviously didn't know each other, but they just started talking. So he's like, all right, they walked out together. And the bartender was like, that was the last time most people saw Matt alive.

Right. Now. So they drive away. And they drive away in Aaron's truck, Russell is driving, which is like, good job because Russell's the one with all the DUIs and the driving offenses, but like definitely have him drive. You're dumb. You're an idiot. And I think it's Aaron's father's truck, actually, I'm pretty sure. Like, it's one of, they borrowed the truck from one of their fathers.

So Aaron McKinney said to, said to Matthew in the car, out of nowhere, he just said, we're not gay and you're getting jacked. So, like, what? He also tried to claim later, which no. one believes that Matt tried to like grab his leg. It's like no. And it's like, no, it's just didn't happen. It's like, come on. And I believe later they like recanted that and said it didn't happen.

I think they were trying to use, which we're going to get very far into later, the gay panic defense, which didn't work. That's just insane to me. He then started as soon as he said like, you're getting jacked, he then just starts to assault Matt and try to get his wallet. So Matt just hands him his wallet. Right. literally like, here you go. Gives it.

Aaron admits in his confession, because the police are like, did he give you, like, did you have to take the wallet by force? And he's like, no, he just gave it to me. Right. So then, like, why did you keep hitting him? Like, what are you doing? And so he just kept going. So this, so he's hitting Matt with the butt of a 357 magnum revolver.

Oh my God. And he was just hitting him over and over and over, like psychotic. Right. Now, this is when they pull off into a. isolated area, like in the prairie, basically. They drive out to that fence. They dragged Matt out of the truck. And after a struggle, which they could tell that Matt struggled a lot.

There were evidence that he tried to run and that they got him, evidence that they dragged him and he ran away. It's awful. I mean, everybody, like, this gets worse. So just like it's a really bad case, guys. So Aaron told Russell, go get some rope in the truck. and we're going to tie him to the fence. Like, why, though?

There's no reason. I don't understand. And so he had a length of rope in his truck. Russell went and got it. Russell, apparently, according to Aaron, tied him to the fence. Also tied his hands behind his back. And Russell is just a little lemming. And just literally everything.

So according to Aaron as well, Russell didn't hit Matthew. Yeah, but he didn't stop him, so he's just as bad. He didn't stop him. And he also at one point claims that Russell was giggling, like found it funny. Yeah. So he's gross as well. And I will say Aaron does not throw him under the bus for hitting him. Right.

So, but he does tie him to the fence and he ties his arms and he does nothing to stop this. Right. So once he's tied to the fence, he just, Aaron starts beating him again and again and again. Well, he's tied. So he can't do anything. And with the butt of the revolver, he said he all. also used his fists a couple of times. Once he was satisfied, he stole, he had the wallet and he stole his shoes.

What? Like, why? Yeah. Now, all in all, according to the autopsy, there were 18 hits to his head and face with the butter of the revolver. Yeah. There were four skull fractures. Oh, my God.

And what ended up being the fatal blow was behind his right ear where they had caved in his skull and crushed it so badly that it crushed his brainstem. Which your brainstem is like all your major functions. Right. So they crushed it. They didn't totally kill it, basically. But it was a deeply affecting. I say quote unquote living.

Right. They also, this blow also tore his ear like almost completely off. Oh my God. Like to. Yeah. And for no reason. And they, this is not robbery. No, no.

This is not robbery. You are, first of all. That's a hate crime. He, willing, gave you. His wallet. He gave you the wallet. And you said so. And you stole his shoes.

You could just leave. There's no, to brutally hit someone that hard, you have pure hatred for them. And like for no reason that affects you at all. No, none. Now, Matt was left tied to that fence, bleeding and going in and out of unconsciousness in the freezing cold Wyoming winter, because this is October. Oh, my God. Freezing cold. And in the middle of the night.

And in the middle of the night, it goes down below freezing sometimes for 18 hours. Because it was so secluded. Yeah. Thank God that guy was riding his bike the next day. Temps literally dipped below freezing. Right. He was out there in just wearing, you know, normal clothes. Regular clothes.

With no shoes. And bleeding profusely. Mm-hmm. This is when Officer Reggie Flutie arrived on this scene, like we talked about in the beginning. Now, when we left, left her, she was using her bare hands to clear Matt's airways of blood. Right. Bad bitch alert. This just shows her complete altruism. Right. Just jumping into action without regard for herself. I'm going to save this guy. Like more people just need to have that kind of just

mentality. Compassion for another human being. And for a stranger. Just a complete stranger. She didn't know him. Right. So when Sheriff Dave O'Malley arrived on the scene, he said there was blood spattered in a 50-foot radius. Oh my God. And he said there were drag marks all over the ground where like we said Matt had clearly tried to escape and been dragged back several times. In a book called Unfinished Lives, reviving the memories of LGBTQ hate crimes, it's by Steven Sprinkle. Officer O'Malley, or Sheriff O'Malley, said it was the worst crime scene he had ever witnessed in his entire career.

Yeah, I could believe it. And this is very interesting. This I found like, wow. He also said, quote, I was a rotten son of a bitch when it came to dealing with gay issues. I had preconceived ideology that I grew up with hearing it from my father and friends. The jokes we used to tell and the things we used to say. And then he said after seeing Matt, quote, my eyes opened up. I didn't realize how a hate crime affects all gays, not just an individual. Right. Matt's friends were scared to death. Some left town as a result of what happened.

Some transferred to other schools. They knew if it could happen to him. It could happen to anybody. All kinds of people get killed every day. But I'm not afraid to walk down to the liquor store and buy a six-pack as some of these people were. It's absurd that it took something this tragic for it to hit me. Wow. But at least it did hit him. Good for him for admitting that. To admit that is huge.

And to just be like, to be like, it took this. This horrific, the worst crime scene I've ever seen in my entire career, which is a lengthy career at this point, it took that for me to not look at all gay people and be like gross. Right. Like that, and for him, dude, met that, that's, that's pretty great. That's huge. And it shows that you can't, it's okay to tweak your, your thoughts, your outlook on the world. That's called growth. Exactly. It's okay to sit there and go, well, shit. I was wrong. I looked at this situation for how long and I looked at it this way because I was taught this way or I just looked at it this way and this is what I believed.

It's okay to learn information or absorb a situation and then go, whoa, whoa, whoa. I got to switch this. Because you, it's like, it's unlearning hate because hate is a learned behavior. And I feel like a lot of people feel like they can't do that. And it's like, no, you're allowed to do that. You should, actually. It's being a decent human being to evolve into like, you should be evolving with the worlds. Right.

You should be evolving your way of thinking. Things change all the time. So it's like, guys, do that. Right. Do it. Right. So, meanwhile, McKinney and Henderson, when, back into town after they left Matthew tied to this fence and just unconscious.

At this point, they were asked later, like, did you think he was dead? And McKinney's like, yeah, I figured he was probably dead. And he was like, I didn't, he just didn't care. Oh, he literally said he was like, I literally didn't give a shit. Like, I don't care. So he was like, yeah, I figured he was dead. To just go about your night after that? Oh, well, guess what they do?

So they go back into town and they pick a fight with two Mexican-American teens. Good. Yeah. The teens were Emiliano Morales and Jeremy Horan. Vera, both 18 years old, they both said that these two assholes just jumped them on the street. Because they just weren't done with their night of fucking terror yet. And Morales was hit in the head with the revolver. The same one.

Yeah, the same one. And ended up needing 21 staples in his head. And that's when his friend Jeremy hit Aaron with a stick to get him off of them. Right. He was like, what the fuck? Get the fuck out of here. And then they ran away. Well, McKinney ended up with a hairline fracture that night from getting hit with the stick.

Uh-huh. And he, so he had a hairline fracture in his skull and was brought to the hospital. Police question, they were like, I know you're bleeding. But like, why do you have that much blood on you? Right. And they were like, what the fuck is that? Because it was soaking his clothing. And he was just like, oh, yeah, it's from my own head.

I just bleed a lot. And they were just like, well, not that much. And in reality, it was mostly Matthews, obviously. Wow. He was put in a room four doors down from where Matthew lie unconscious in a coma. No. No. For a period of time that night, they were four doors away from each other.

Wow. So Matthew was laying in a coma in one room, and his killer was laying four doors down, and they had no idea. That's insane. Isn't that unbelievable? To go back and know that, it's like... Unbelievable. Wow.

What are the fucking odds? That's the thing. And it's like, and knowing now, and I'm sure... Just as his parents, I keep thinking of, like, because I'm going to get into, you know, his parents coming back and everything, probably in part two, I think, because we're going to this in a bit. But I just think of his parents now knowing that information and knowing like while you were trying to get to your son who was laying in a coma after being beaten for no reason whatsoever and then tied to a fence for 18 hours alone while you had no idea. Right. Then you have to sit there

know that for a period of time while he wasn't there. He was four doors away from the man who did that to him and that no one knew. And it's like, huh, that's like the Cindy Hindi thing. It honestly, it blows my... The rarity of that is like bananas. When does that happen? Right. When does that happen? That's like we always say like when you're watching a movie and you're like, okay,

like that was a little overboard. Exactly. And it's like, but this is the reality of the situation. Right. It's insane. And I think I am going to end part one here. Wow. Matt is now in the hospital.

He is in a coma. And McKinney and Henderson are not caught yet. Wow. So we are going to stop part one here. Oh, her. give you guys a little bit of a breather because part two is pretty rough too so we're gonna I think everybody needs to be like to take a minute yeah and I suggest anybody wanting more information definitely read I'll link it in the show notes um his mother Judy wrote a book

Matt Shepard is a friend of mine is a great movie to watch it just it has everybody who was close to him talking about him it's just like really like touching like a celebration it's so and it's like very heart wrenching a time but it's like beautiful at the same time. Definitely watch those, but you're in luck because part two is going to be coming out on Sunday. So only in about two days. So you don't have a long time to wait. I won't make you wait like a week for part two.

We're going to give you part two right away. So I hope you, everybody is feeling okay right now. And I hope maybe you took something away from this so far. I hope you did because you know what? It's Pride Month. That's the whole point of us doing this. Yeah. And we need to celebrate.

but we also need to be aware of what the LGBTQ plus community is dealing with every day. So hopefully this is going to inspire someone to change their way of thinking. I hope so. I hope so. All right. Well, we're going to thank our patrons. Yay. Weird segue.

Sorry. We're going to take a quick right turn to like a happy thing. Yeah. Yeah. So number one is Margaret Connett. Margaret Connit, you're on it. Oh, girl. Next is James Perea. James Perea. I can't wait to see you. I can't wait to see you. Next, we have a Madonna. Oh, Erin. Erin. She's like our like fifth Patreon. That's Aaron and it's just Erin.

I love it. Aaron's so hot right now. Erin's so hot right now. Next we have Morgan Elizabeth. Morgan Elizabeth. You are the tisabeth. I don't know what that means. That's my favorite. Yeah. You're my favorite. Next is Janine Payne. Janine Payne, you're not a pain. You're not a pain in my neck. You're not. Next is Grace Hanger. Grace Hanger.

You hang her in there because you're the best. Hang her in there. Then we have Megan Harmeyer. Megan Harmeier. You rock. You rock my socks. Then, I'm sorry, if I mess up your last name, I'm going to look at this for like one more second. Chris Morags.

Chris Morags. Yeah. Give me Mo rags. Give me Mo rags. Thanks, Chris. You're awesome. Thank you. Our next one is another matana. Allison. Allison with a Y. Oh, Allison with a Y. So hot right now.

So hot right now. Then we have Cattery, I think, Cineros. Cisneros. Catery Cinceneros. That's an amazing name. You're the best and we're really sorry if we said it wrong. We love you, Catery Cisneros. Love you. I'm going to do two more Patrions. Who will it be? Trisha Bell. Trisha Bell, you ring my bell.

Yeah, ding, ding, ding. And then last but certainly not least is Danny B. Danny B. You're an A plus in my book. You're an A plus plus in my book. Thanks, Danny. Well, as always, guys, you can find us on Instagram at Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter.

A Morbid Podcast. Send us a Gmail. Please, please, please, please, please send all your listener tales to the Gmail account, which is. With the subject, listen or tails, and then whatever fun thing you decide to write

because those are really funny. Yes. Morbid podcast at gmail.com. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not to really that you're a giant antel

and you walk into a bar and kill somebody for no reason because that really just makes me want to punch you directly in the face but I wouldn't do that because I'm too nice. Bye. I'd punch you.

So, yeah, I'd make her do it, but don't be that.