Morbid - The Bell Witch

Episode Date: March 20, 2021

We figured with everything being pretty heavy lately, we’d bring you a haunting. THE haunting, actually. The Bell family moved to their Tennessee farm in the early 1800s and had things great at first, beautiful land a big happy family. All the sudden though, in 1817, a haunting began and an entity who became known as the Bell Witch would terrorize the family for years to come! Book Ash mentioned: The Bell Witch: The Truth Exposed by Camille Moffitt As always thank you to our sponsors  Betterhelp: This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/Morbid  Care of: get 50% off your first Care/of order, go to TakeCareOf.com/morbid50 and enter code morbid50   Thrive market: go ThriveMarket.com/MORBID to get the exclusive offer of 25% off your first order AND a FREE gift! Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I am, I almost just said I was Elena. I'm Ash. I'm Elena. And this is morbid. Morbid. It's so early. We woke up real early for this one. We did because weirdly, even though it never seems like in the beginning, we do better in the morning.

I don't know about that. We do. In the end. No, no, we definitely do. Yeah. It's just that opening. That opening, though. Getting past that opening.

and then it's it's downhill from there. It always is. Up hill. Up hill. Always uphill. Up hill from there. Yeah. See, up hill sounds shitty because like I don't want to go up a hill.

Like it's an uphill climb from there. It's the climb. Wow. All right. So I think we don't really have a whole lot of business for this one. So we'll get into it like pretty quick. But before we jump into our story, we just wanted to quickly mention to our Asian listeners, we just wanted to tell you that we love you so much. We love you. We appreciate you.

We respect you. We see you. So we just wanted to let you know that. We love you. Yes, we're sending so much love to argue. Exactly. So we just wanted to put that out there before we get into a very spooky tale. Perhaps the spookiest. I'm not even going to introduce this. It's been like a witch, a witch, a witch week. Which week? Which week? Which week? Which week? Which, which, which week. So what do we do it? We are going to talk about America's greatest ghost story, The Bell Witch. Yes. It's so good. I've been waiting for this one. Honestly, it's scared the shit out of me. I'm not even going to lie to you. Yeah, it just feels good. Sometimes when we do like a few gnarly cases in a row, it's fun to do like a gnarly haunting. Yeah. You know, like it doesn't soften it really, but it goes to like a different side of gnarly.

And there may even be some serious true crime at the end of this. Exactly. Oh, I'm excited. Be it. Let's do it. Be it. Be it. Be it.

I'm excited. Feel it. Be it. I'm excited. Be excited. Be it. Be it. Be it.

Feel it. Do it. Live it. Love it. Let's do this. All right. So, John and Lucy Bell were a couple originally from North Carolina. Then they moved to Tennessee in the early 18,

And at that point, they already had five children. All right. We've got Jesse. We've got John Jr. We've got Drewry. Drewry, which I'm definitely going to call Drew. I was going to say you're going to call Drew that. Then we have Benjamin, Esther, and Zadik, I believe is how you say it?

I love these names. Yeah, they're actually like really cool names. That's fun that there's a John and a Drury. Yeah, I love it. John and Drury. So the family was pretty well off, to say the least. and they decided to buy some land near Red River, Tennessee, around, or Red River in Tennessee, around 1804. Over the next couple of years, they would have three more kids, another daughter named Elizabeth, who they would call Betsy, and two more sons, Richard, who was called Williams, I believe that was his middle name.

Right. Joe. Joe. Although the Red River is said to be cursed and on sacred land that Native Americans eventually abandoned, the family didn't experience anything supernatural. until 1817. Ooh. The haunting they experienced lasted more than four years and would eventually be referred to, like I said, as America's greatest ghost story.

Damn. Which it totally is. It totally is. So everything... Forget Amityville. It's fake. So like, this is like so different. No, I know.

I'm totally kidding. Just wait. Because like seriously, this is on another fucking level. Oh yeah. Well, this is like a totally different kind of haunting. This also absolutely is America's greatest ghost story. Exactly. Like I'm fully on board. I'm agreeing. I just shunned Amityville to the side. Be it. I did. Be it. So everything started with the sightings of strange animals, which feels very Bridgewater Triangle-esque. Yes, it does. Yeah. The family would see like ridiculously large black dogs that were not really dogs. Allegedly John Bell Sr. saw one that had the body of a dog, like a big black dog, but had the head of a rabbit. What? Yes. Yes. Yes. I just pictured that immediately.

See, no matter, I'm happy that your brain gives you that ability. No matter how fucking hard I try to picture that, my brain will not put those two things together. Like, I can't see. I either see a bunny or a dog or a dog with no head, which is like really fucked up. What's weird is it's not menacing to me because bunny's faces and heads are not menacing. So it's just a giant like Peter Rabbit-esque like, hello, I'm a bunny face. And it's this huge dog. So here's the thing.

So to me, I'd just be like, that's just a big weird bunny. I love bunnies. Like, I think bunnies are super, super cute. But they're also, they're, like, mysterious as fuck. They have secrets. What do they do? Yeah, they have secrets. Like, what do you, what are you doing?

They're hanging out. I don't know. I think they're doing more than that. Now, I think they're just, like, plotting, like, dog demise. Wow. I don't know. That's a really serious allegation to put on bunnies. To throw on the bunny community.

Sorry, bunnies. Yeah. Take it easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. One of the sons saw what he thought was a turkey at first, but then he was like, wait, no, that's like way too big to be a turkey, which is terrifying in and of itself because turkeys can be huge. I was going to say, are we sure it wasn't just a turkey? And he was like, that's a huge turkey. We're sure because they later determined that it was some unknown kind of foul. Oh, yeah, which is a very big bird.

A very big. According to Google, that's the exact transcript that they gave me. Now, the family would tell each other about what they'd seen, and they all agreed that it was pretty strange, but like nothing had gone wrong yet. They were just like, what's up with all these weird ass animals? Or like, is there something in the water here? Yeah. Also, a fowl is just like a rooster or hen. It's not big. Yeah, no, no, no, this one was big. Oh, I thought you were saying like foul means a big bird. No, no, no, no. It was like someone's going to yell at you. I probably did say that. No, no, no, it's a bird, but like this one was huge. And they determined that it was like an unknown. kind of foul. Like a rooster hen of some sort that is huge, monstrous. Not a turkey. I don't love that. Basically, it wasn't a turkey. It just was not a turkey.

It just ain't it. So, yeah, the family would, like, talk to each other. They were like, did you see that bird that, like, wasn't a turkey? And, like, I think it might be a fowl. Or, like, the dad's like, hey, I got one to, like, one up you guys. I actually saw a giant dog that had the head of a bunny. Yeah, I mean, that one ups everybody. Yeah.

I think. It definitely does. So they're just like, okay, weird land. Then at night, when they were sleeping, they would wake up to like tapping noises on the outside of the house to which I say, fuck right the fuck off. That's a nope situation. But they like chalked it up to somebody pranking them, even though every single time they checked outside, they never caught anybody out there. And who is this asshole in the middle of the night pranking you by tapping on your house?

Well, and also you live on like a gigantic farm. Somebody's got to go a long way to prank you. Also, like, very out in the open, like, there's not a lot of places to, like, hide. Yeah, I would assume maybe that's making an ass of you and me, but I don't know. Now, so the tapping then elevated, and it led to sounds inside the house. And one of the main noises in the house at first was described as a gnawing on the beds. Oh. Yes.

They all thought that, like, some kind of animal had gotten into the house and was, like, chipping away at their beds. But then they would look around the house in the daytime, and they wouldn't see any signs that any animal had been inside. And even stranger, there was no evidence of said gnawing on the beds. What? Super, super weird. So then suddenly Betsy, their youngest daughter, they only have two daughters, Esther and Betsy. And Betsy started taking the brunt of these like late night wake up calls, if you will. Oh, poor Betsy. She would start screaming. And her parents would like run to check on her. And they would find her cheeks like red and swollen with like handprints. Like she was being smacked or like punched.

And she would tell them, like, I've been slapped. Like, somebody hit me in the middle of the night. Now, the middle of the night noises escalated even further by this point. And the family would wake up to, like, loud, shattering noises. What? Noises that sounded like chains dragging across the floor. This fucks me up the most. Their covers would be ripped off in the middle of the night and their pillows, like, thrown to the floor.

What? You're, like, one sense of comfort. You know what I mean? Like, in a situation like that, you just want to hide under the covers. And feeling someone like forcibly remove your cover from you? It's very invisible man. That's a lot. Hate it.

Yeah. It is very invisible man. Hate it so much. I can see that scene in my mind right now and I have the chills. Yeah. Lee Wano. Lee Wano. Yeah.

Then if that wasn't enough for you, the house itself would start violently shaking. Like there was some kind of earthquake going on. So like safe to say something was up. Something was a miss. Something had gone around. Something was different in that house. Something in this house was unlike the others. Yeah.

I win. At that time, especially, like, family matters were kept private. Like, it's the 1800s. Oh, yeah. You can't say your business. They weren't jumping on Twitter and, like, or more like Facebook. Hashtag haunted. Spilling the tea on the family drums.

No, no, no, no, no, no, not, no, no, no, not, no, no, not, middle-aged women with spiky hair. From Aunt, on Susie. Yeah, that one. So for an entire year, an entire year this is going on. And none of the kids in the house were to tell their friends what was going on. And John and Lucy wouldn't speak of it either. They're just like, can't talk about this. Can't talk now. Got to get haunted. Can't talk right now doing haunted bitch shit. So eventually they had enough. Enough was enough. And they realized that if they were going to try to figure this out, they were going to need help. Like they were going to need Jesus and then some. Yeah. So James Johnston was a neighbor that the family was pretty close to. And someone that Lucy and John really trusted. They all went to like the same church services. So best friends forever.

Good for them. Yeah. James and his wife spent the night on one occasion to see if maybe like when strangers were around, the activity would settle down, you know? Yeah. It didn't. In fact, the spirit was like more active that night, almost like it had something to prove. Oh, so the spirit was like, oh, you want to bring a friend?

Company? You want to bring a friend to the party? You know who the spirit turned into? And I just thought of this right now. The countess. The countess? At her cabaret show when like a few extra tickets are sold. Wow.

Yeah. Where are Rony heads? The spirit said, money can't buy you class. That's some spooky gay bullshit at Tyler and Johnny. You know what it is? It's like when you throw a party and if your family's just coming and you're like, I definitely want to throw a nice party if my family's coming. But then they're like, oh, we're going to bring a few friends. And you're like, oh, now I really got to step it up.

I need to make hors d'oeuvres. I got to make a souffle. I got to, like, go really, really hard on this. I'm going to make some place settings. That's what the spirit said. He was like, oh, we have friends now. I can't just do my regular haunting shit. I have to put this up a notch.

Level up. Yeah. Level up. Level up. So James told John that he wanted to help, and he was going to try to put together like a group to investigate and hopefully rid this family of the haunting. But then soon enough word was spreading around town and people were just, like, showing up to see what this was all about.

So they honestly just ended up having like an open door policy. And I'm reading all this. And I'm like, but like what if like a murderer came in? Like I know you're dealing with a haunting. But like you're just letting anybody in. Yeah. Are they getting like paid? I don't think so.

I don't think so. Because I'd be like, all right, like five bucks up the door. I turn this into a side show, damn it. You got to make it a business. Yeah, right. I mean, eventually. Well, they were doing okay though. Yeah, I don't think they needed it.

And they were doing some other like the dad was like doing some shady shit. Oh, nefarious. dealings. Yeah, so I feel like he needed to only have like a couple business dealings at a time. Yeah. So these people would come over and they would all just gather in the kitchen and try to communicate with who or whatever was responsible for these like creepy noises. Sounds awesome. It sounds like a grand old time. Yeah. So they would ask questions and the answers would be given through like taps or scratches on the wall. I added my own sound effect. I love that. I didn't like doing that with the scratches though. Um,

So over time, though, the taps and the scratches turned to like moans and groans, like, and then a low... What is it? Murl. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah. And then a groan like, ugh. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And then a low whistle. Ooh. And that slowly became a whisper. And then finally a straight up voice like this. Only it sounds feminine. My voice isn't super feminine. So the first night the spirit spoke, there were.

24 people sitting in the kitchen to listen to it explained why it had come here in the first place. Oh, I love this. And it said, I quote, I am the spirit of a person who was once very happy, but have been disturbed and made unhappy. I am the spirit of a person who was buried in the woods nearby and the grave has been disturbed. My bones disinterred and scattered. I've come to kill. John Bell. I'm going to kill you. I added the last part. I just got the chilly chilies. I've come to kill John Bell. Oh. So. Well, in just any, if you are doing like a seance in your home and like shit was going down and this person said, I'm here because I'm buried in the woods. Slash was. And now my shit has been spread everywhere. I would, that would be it for me. I'd be like,

wait, you're buried in the freaking woods. Like what? Like, yes. Why? Who? Huh? Oh, honey. Just wait. I'm just, this, that gave me the chills. Oh, honey. As Trixie, would say. So there had been a disturbance of some human remains, but it wasn't John Bell who disturbed the grave. It was one of his sons. Yeah. So there were a lot of people who worked on the land that the Bell family owned. They had 328 acres of land, to be exact. Oh, okay. So you're going to need a couple farm hands here and there. Can be a little bit of help. Now one day, while they were outworking in the fields, they realized that they were in some kind of burial ground, which they believed was a Native American burial ground and history would later prove them right. Wow. Yeah. It's unclear exactly like what went

down because different sources say different things, but the most prevalent thing in like all the sources was that they were like plowing the fields and that's how they just like, I mean, that makes sense, like clearing area to plant stuff. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So the farmhands went and told John Bell and Drury was either there when his father like heard the news or he was eavesdropping on the conversation. Okay. So a while later, he and his friend were bored. So they went out to the area that the farmhands had been talking about because they wanted to like find some cool stuff like some relics. So they just started digging. They were probably young, right? I would assume. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we don't know. But I would assume those are young boys, you know, like, young enough. But like they're like, I want to go look for stuff. But also like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't think everybody was like totally educated on like the no-nows of that. No, definitely not. give them that benefit of the job. They were after this. So Drew stumbled across a jawbone and like took it to home to show his dad. Oh. Now John Bell was like real pissed off. He found a mandible. Hey, hey dad, check this out. Well, well, like that's not happy. That's a lot. Not good. So John was actually pissed off. He was like,

why like you have no respect for the dead, you little shit? Like go put that back. Yeah. Direct quote. And he did. He like, Drew went and put it back. But at this, but at that point it was. too late. Yeah. So people started hearing of this haunted farm like from all over the world. Like at first it was just people from the town like in neighboring towns. At this point, people all over the world are starting to show up at the Bell Farm to be like, let me hear that voice. Let me tell me about your story. Or like, I can help you. So one man who claimed that he was going to be able to rescue the family came out to Tennessee from somewhere on the East Coast. And he claimed that he was a witch hunter who could kill a witch with silver bullets. Oh. Okay. All right. He had done it in the past and he was

ready to do it again. I love that he comes and he's like, I've already murdered a woman. Yes. So, let's do this again. Right. All right. Like I've got silver bullets for this shit. But back then, it wasn't a woman, it was a witch. Yeah, that's just a lot. I mean, now like same, same. That's a lot. It's too much. Now he stayed for a few days with the family and weirdly enough while he was there, the disturbances, like, stopped. Like, they chilled out. And the Bell family was, like, super happy. And they're like, yo, we'll pay you to live here if, like, this, this is what you're capable of. Now, they didn't know it was a witch at this point, right? Like, why was he just coming, assuming, like, they definitely, at this point, they, like, assumed that it was.

Because they, they, like, assumed witchcraft because they're, like, how else would, like, a disembodied voice just, like, come over my kitchen and entertain my guests. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, you know. Um, so he, they were like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, Like, you can serve as our protector. We'll pay you to live here. And it'll be great. And, you know, should the activity start back up, you're, you could be here to help. Yeah.

So this guy's like, cool. Like, they're rich. I just have to like hang around. Like, let's get it. Yeah. So he's like, pretty solid gig sounds good. I just kind of go home and grab some stuff and then I'll be back. So he did tell the family before he was about to leave that he thought he had scared

the witch off for good. But he'd come back anyway. And as he tried to get on his horse and head back home. his horse either, I was just lisped like really intensely. His horse either like refused or was unable to move, like just like would not budge. Wow. No matter how hard the guy tried, the horse would not move a muscle. Wow. And he like did some really shitty things to like make the horse move, but I can't talk about it. Oh. Yeah, I know. But the horse would not move. So then suddenly, everyone heard this all too familiar, disembodied voice call out, I can make that horse go. Let me get on behind.

What? At that moment, the horse started freaking the fuck out. Because the horse is like, nah. Running around in circles, like clearly very spooked. And the man was able to get on the horse while the horse was still freaking out. And apparently it ran off the property with the witch hunter, like, screaming and holding on for dear life. Oh my God. So he, um, didn't come back. No. And the witch kept laughing about the whole ordeal and telling the family, like, because she would just like, talk to them in the middle of the night, or like in the middle of the day, like, whenever she felt like it. And it didn't have to just be in the house anywhere on the property she could talk to them. Wow. Yeah. And she said that she thought it was hilarious and she stuck the man with brass pins and she said he'd be spitting them out for months to come. Oh my gosh. Yes. So a couple of students came to stay. These are just like a couple like first hand experiences. A couple of students

came to stay. And when they didn't see or hear anything, they said to each other that like, the people that sent them here were suckers. Like, what a bunch of suckers. So the witch then spoke and told them all about this professor that they had previously had. And I believe that the reason they were theirs because the professor had like spoken of this whole phenomena thing. And the witch was like, yeah, he would be here with you if he hadn't died three years ago. And they were like, uh, that's correct. And she just kept pointing out like different facts and being like, she would have no way of knowing them. So they were like, she's like, she's like one of of those like tabletop psychics who's like let me prove that oh hell yeah she's like i can tell you

and we'll get into it later but if you disrespect whoever this entity is she will get your ass back damn like do not go there and like try to that one up her you know i don't plan to nor do i so another man that stayed at the bell farm uh he communicated with his family back home through the witch until his mother demanded that he come home because she was done with all the scary visits. Yeah. And the witch was able to send the message to the man in his mother's own voice. What?

And that's when we're going to get into some even creepier shit. How? Magic. Well, listen. So she started getting really good at mimicking the voices of the people in the home. All right. So the neighbor James Johnston, who I mentioned before, he led the church services at the bell home. and his voice was the first to be mimicked while he was giving his sermons.

She would just like pick up with him and like talk at the same time, like knew what he was going to say. Oh my God. Then there was another occasion where there was some kind of like nighttime service and a preacher was there to give a sermon that he had given earlier that day like miles and miles away. And the voice recited the service that the preacher had given earlier that same day. And he was like, how did you do that? Like how did you know what I was going to say? And she was like, I was there when you delivered it.

Then another preacher was there to give like a different sermon, which he had also given earlier that day. She just started giving it for him and just as she, like, just as she had with the guy before. And obviously he was like, how do you know my sermon? And she was like, I was there too. I just, I love that everybody's just like, oh, how do you know my sermon? Like, how do you know? This is a disembodied boy. Like, why is everybody. How is anything happening? Why is everybody so casual about everybody's just like, hey, how do you know? How do you know? you know that? And she's like, well, it's literally this is like fuck to say and it's like totally different than what this is. It's like smart house. But like in a really like paranormal, creepy way.

Pat's voice just coming across. Yeah. Yeah. I like locking you in your room. I love it. So the weird thing was so she knew both services and she was like, yeah, I was at them. Yeah. And the weird thing was that both men had given their sermons at the same time at two separate locations, 13 miles apart. Wow. So like, how is she in two places at once? I mean, I don't know. I mean, she's a entity. She is. She can do what she wants. Now, after that, she started interrupting every Sunday service, even at the church itself. And she would, like, sing hymns, like new hymns that nobody had ever heard of before, or, like, potentially, like, very old ones that nobody knew. Damn. So creepy. I wish someone had a video camera. Yeah, that, well, well, a video. Well, a video.

Video camera does come into play later. All right, cool. Much, much later, not in this version with the 1800s that we're in. Now, but this is interesting. One of the most notorious visits to the farm actually came from the would-be president, Andrew Jackson. Ooh. Yeah. So the family knew him because John Jr. had served alongside him during the Battle of New Orleans.

And the book I read while researching, you should definitely go read it. If you have the Kindle Cloud Reader, it's free. I love that. It's the best. It's called The Bell Witch, the Truth Exposed. Now, that book said that, quote, General Jackson's party came from Nashville with a wagon loaded with a tent and provisions, bent on a good time and much fun investigating the witch. Wow. They were hiked.

They were stoked. I love that. Jackson actually brought a self-proclaimed witch hunter. So apparently that was like an actual occupation back then. He brought him on the trip and the guy came with like a loaded gun in tow, which also had silver bullets. I guess you needed silver bullets to kill a witch. I thought that was a werewolf thing, but... I guess it doubles.

I guess it just translates into other... You know? It's like if you can't get store-bought, silver bullets are fine. So on the way to the farm, the group's wagon just abruptly stopped and, like, got stuck in some mud. And no matter what they did, like, they took every wheel off and inspected it and then, like, put them back on. And they would spin, like, while they were just, like, lifted in the air they would spin. but then they would put them back down and it would not move. Wow.

And then like everyone got out all at once and tried to push and the wagon wouldn't budge. Wow. So Andrew Jackson told all the men that he was traveling with that it must be the witch. And as he finished saying that, a voice came over all of them and said, all right, general, let the wagon move. I'll see you tonight. What a saucy. I will see you tonight. What a saucy lady.

I love it. So scary. It's like, all right, we'll see you later. See you tonight. So when the group finally got the wagon going, aka, like, the witch just like let them. They got to the farm, they immediately wanted to search around and stumble across something definitive. They were said to find nothing at first, but they stayed up all like up into the early morning hours waiting for something. I'm pretty sure they were sitting in the kitchen when this happened. So the witch hunter would not shut up about all his tactics and his past success. He was basically just sitting there like boasting the whole time. Like, oh, when she shows herself, I'm going to shoot her with my bullets.

Yeah, if you're a witch hunter, I feel like that's just like part of your job. Yeah, you're just fucking annoying. Yeah. So he was annoying everyone. And Andrew Jackson leaned over to one of the other guys there and said, I'll bet he's an errant coward. I do wish the thing would come. I want to see him run, which is hilarious. Now, at that moment, they heard a noise that seemed to be like something sweeping across the floor in front of Jackson. And the same exact voice from earlier, said, all right, general, I'm here and I'm ready for business. And the witch hunter, the witch hunter tried to shoot in the direction where the voice came from, but the first shot did nothing. So the voice tempted him to try a second time. But that attempt failed too. And at that point,

she said something suggesting that it was like her turn now. And she started beating the shit out of him. Like he was like moving all across the floor and like, yelling. Oh my God. Apparently he had like a very prominent nose. he had like a bird-like nose, the book said. Yeah. And she started, like, grabbing his nose, and he was yelling that she was going to rip it off. Oh, my God. And he sent, or she sent him, like, flying through the front door, like, running out the front

door. And she threw him out of the house. And as he was running away from the property, he just, like, kept running. Like, I would. Like, did not stop running. And the entire time, he was just shouting, oh, Lordy, Lordy. Oh, my God. I don't blame him.

So that's Andrew Jackson's visit. Wow. Yeah. I'd be running forever shouting, oh, lordy, lordy, too. Oh, Lordy, Lordy. Jeez. I also love your voice for the witch. You're like, all right, general.

I know. It's probably offensive. I hope not. Well, no, it just sounds like it's like, all right. All right. I don't know. I just love it every time. Well, she also had different voices.

I don't get into that. Which, uh-huh. I don't love that. Uh-uh. So another strange encounter happened to one of the slaves working on the property. So like I said in the beginning, John Bell was soon. super wealthy. And at the time, the wealthy would show off how much they had, essentially, by like, collecting a large number of slaves. It's like stomach turning to think about, but necessary

to mention. Yeah, absolutely. So this particular slave that they had was named Dean. And he was one of the Bell family's first slaves. This is, this next part that I'm going to say is like really fucked up. He and his mother, Chloe, had been gifted to John and Lucy on their wedding day from Lucy's father. Oh. So like a human being gave another set of human beings to human beings for a gift. Like that is the most fucked up thing. Yeah. I just, I can't. That's one of those like I can't even wrap my brain around that. Yeah, but I feel like it is worth mentioning. Yeah. So Dean was married to a woman named Kate. And Dean just sounds like the best. Like I want to be friends with Dean. Like I need to track him down. And like that's the only reason I would use a Ouija board. Dean, I got to know you. I got a. He was married to a woman named Kate, who was also kept as a slave on a neighboring property. And Dean had actually been known to be a target of the hauntings going on, and he would sometimes

show up to work just bleeding, claiming that he had been hit over the head by the witch. Oh, man. Yes. Now, not wanting her husband to be, like, severely hurt. Kate made Dean something called a witch ball. And she made it with, like, different herbs and her own hair, like, from her head. Oh, that's cool. Like intertwined, wrapped up together.

Like a protection thing? I was literally, it was supposed to be a protective item. Oh, look at that. You read my mind. Now, one night while he was walking to Kate's, he ran into the witch, who he said appeared in front of him as a large black dog, which happens a lot in the paranormal world. Yeah, that's like a prevalent thing. Yeah, black dogs are like a super bad omen, which is not awesome because black dogs

are my favorite. But she appeared next to him as a large black dog. And she told him that she knew he had a witch ball and demanded he give it to her. So he was so scared and, like, didn't know what was going to happen. So he did. And he, like, held out his hand and the thing burst into flames and shot up into the air. What? That's what the book said.

Yep. So after that, she kept taunting him, like, wouldn't let him go. So he pulled out his axe and split the dog's head into two. Wow. So then he ran to Kate, who gave him a different witch ball after she consulted with a Native American on what herbs she should put into this one this time to make it like more protective. But Dean ran into the witch again. And this time she appeared as a dog with two heads. No. So he like split the dog's head in half and she responded by it became more powerful. Wow. I can't. So she tried this time turning him

into a mule and he was like stuck there like couldn't move. And apparently he heard another like witch's voice joking with the original one saying that they should ride Dean to have breakfast in hell. What? Like turn him into a mule and ride him to hell to get breakfast. What the fuck? Isn't that nuts? What?

Yes. So Dean, like somehow he like he figured out a way to get out of that situation. It said that like he was so like he was so in love with Kate that like he used that to get like unstuck and like ran to Kate, which I was like, oh. Oh my God. I love. I love love. Now, Dean was a fixture in the town, like, for years to come, and he would tell his firsthand experiences to anyone who asked about his time on the farm. I love that. Yeah, he was like a townie. I love that later. He was like, let me tell you. So I think I mentioned before that the haunting seemed to, like, really focus on Betsy, who was 12 when everything began. Like I said, like she gets

slapped. Her hair would be pulled. She'd feel like she was being pricked by pins all over her body. Oh my God. She also started to have seizures and would go unconscious after like clearly struggling to breathe for a long time, only to wake up and suddenly have everything start again. So she'd be struggling to breathe and then like pass out and then wake up and then the whole thing would start again. And it could last like up to 40 minutes, they would say. Wow. Yeah.

So John and Lucy would try to send her away to like friends houses for the night, but the spirit would follow her to the friend's houses. It could follow her. that was part of the reason. Why is it so fixated on her? Well, we're going to get into that. Good, because I need to know. Yeah. So that was part of the reason, though, why the family never left home because it promised

to follow them. Like, it said, like, I can follow you wherever you go. Like, so don't even bother. Wow, that's hopeless. Yeah, it's terrifying. So years into the haunting, Betsy was getting older and eventually she became engaged to her childhood friend, Joshua Gardner. But they were, like, doomed from the start.

The voice would follow them to all different. places on the farm and say, quote, please Betsy Bell, don't marry Joshua Gardner. That would surely bring you a life of pain and misery. And it would say this like constantly all the time over and over. It would like hit her and like still abuse her in front of Joshua. And like it would say like crude things to make her uncomfortable in front of everybody about the relationship. I was going to say, is this like them trying to be like chill and being like he's not a good guy, don't marry him? It was just them being mean. Well, listen.

So John Bell eventually died, which we'll get into in just a second. But I wanted to tell this part first. So Betsy called off her engagement to Joshua believing that the witch was right. And that was part of the reason why her father was killed. She was like, because I didn't listen to her to the witch. So she ended up calling off the engagement and marrying a man named Richard Powell, who was a super shady character that happened to be her teacher at one point. He was like many years older than her and like had always been super creepy and like said that he would marry her someday.

Cool. Yeah, I love that. But her life was still super miserable even though she listened. So in the book that I was reading about it, they were like, so did the voice like say that to make, like knowing how much power it had over her? Yeah. Because her was super miserable when with Richard. Yeah. But like I think it led her to believe that she was going to be miserable with Joshua, but it was like playing a trick on her.

Oh, likely. I don't think it suddenly was like, let me help you out, girl. Right. Like, why would it be like that? That's basically like what the author said. So she, Betsy, had eight children, but only, or excuse me, but four of them died super young. Oh. Two more died in or after the war. And she and her husband invested like all their money into some ship that was like they put all their money on. And the ship sunk to the bottom of the ocean and they lost all their money. What? Yeah, so they never recovered. Like they were just like destitute for the rest of ever. And then when he died, obviously she became a widow for the rest of her life, which was more than 30 years. So she was just like alone for 30 years after having experienced all of that. Wow. Yeah. What misery. So let's get into Jack now. Or John. So from the beginning, the witch promised to kill John. She literally was like, I'm here to do so. She referred to him as old Jack, and she said that she was going to kill him slowly.

And she did. Even when he would leave the house, he would suffer. I read that quote, he always felt like a stick was lodged into his mouth horizontally, cutting into his cheeks. His tongue would swell. He couldn't leave the house. Like a stick lodged into your mouth? Like, I can feel that.

Right? I'm like spreading my, like, cheeks. See, and I'm like pushing mine together. I'm like, no. Yeah. It's like, ugh. Yeah. I hate it. So the last walk that John took was with Williams to the hog pen. And along the way, his shoes kept being like violently ripped off and thrown about. And he was becoming more and more frantic and like just like very clearly being affected by something. And by the end of the whole ordeal, he was like convulsing. So after that, he never left the house again and mostly was confined to his bed. And so he had to be given his medication by, John Jr. who would, like, consult with the family doctor. Now, one morning, John Sr. hadn't woken up yet, and he wasn't responding to anybody trying to wake him. He was still breathing, but he was, like, not there. So John Jr. went to get his medicine. He was like, maybe, like,

he just needs, like, something. Like, I'll call the doctor and I'll find out. Yeah. So he opens the cupboard, and all he sees is this small vial standing where the medicine was supposed to be. And it had, like, a dark liquid in it. Yeah. What? Mm-hmm. So he's like, what the fuck is this? But no one claimed they put it there and everyone said they had never seen it before. So when they called the family doctor to like check in on John, he smelled the vial, like trying to figure out what liquid, what the liquid was? I was going to say, what was the liquid?

Well, the witch and then announced to the room that she'd given John a dose of it in his sleep and she had fixed him. So sure enough, when the doctor checked, the smell was on John's breath. like she was like yeah or the doctor was like yeah like he definitely was given this poison she gave it him yeah she did not fix him so they test this is really sad like trigger warning uh they tested the liquid on the family cat one of the family cats and they just like rubbed like a little on his tongue and he died immediately yeah the fuck was it i don't know so john junior was so mad he slammed the vial down to the floor and when it broke i saw two different accounts it

either had a huge purple cloud just like emit into the air or a large blue cloud. But either way, like a colored cloud just like rose into the air. I was going to say either way. It doesn't matter. Just like shattered, like rising among like the shattered pieces. Oh my God. That reminds me of those like photographs people will take with like the color bombs. Yes. You're never going to look at those. But it's not awesome. No. No. So John Sr. died the next morning, December 20th, 1820. Damn.

Yes. The witch was quiet during the funeral, but when things were wrapping up... I know how nice supper. And it was apparently like one of the biggest funerals in history at that point. Wow. In that place, in Tennessee's history at that point. Wow. But as things were wrapping up, like she started singing this song that said like,

row me up some brandio. Like she was like jauntily singing like about brandy. She's singing a sea shanty? She's singing a she shanty. see shanty. And she wouldn't stop until everyone had gone home or like gone inside. Wow. Like she was like, let's celebrate.

A true pirate. So strangely enough, the spirit was like really connected to Lucy, who was John's wife. Oh, okay. So Lucy had been super sick at one point in time. This is before John died. I put this like a little bit out of order, but I think it made better sense like to me. And so before John died, she got super sick and she was bedridden. And it seemed like everyone was pretty sure that she was like basically.

going to die. They didn't know what she had, but she was clearly very sick. But the voice of the spirit was with her all the time and would like, if she needed something, the spirit would be like, you need to get her this and it's over there. Like get her this now. Wow. Mm-hmm. Now one day she was laying in bed at that point. She was unable to eat, like hadn't eaten in days. And she was surrounded by a couple of visitors who started noticed like something falling from the ceiling. And they realized that hazelnuts are falling from the ceiling. and then grapes started falling from the same place and the voice of the spirit just came out of nowhere and was like Lucy eat the like eat those what now they all investigated and they were like

there has to be like this is not real like there's no way that's real but there was no hole in the ceiling like no contraption set up like also this is like the 1800s like how high tech can you get I have like no words no words no words. Just dropping hazelnuts and grapes. So she, like I said, she hadn't eaten a while, but the spirit told her to eat these and she was able to. And then after that, it seemed like she was totally cured. Like it took a couple days, but in no time, she was back up. And like the family was just like back at it again. Wow. So this witch like sees Lucy as like kindred. She does. And we'll get into it. I'm sure we will. So when John died, the activity calmed down. But the witch promised to

return in seven years, and she did. I'd be like, why? Because she's got to die. Why, though? I don't know. She wants to. She can do what she wants. She can do whatever she wants. So she came and she told John Bell Jr. some predictions for the world. Now, this is fucking terrifying. She accurately predicted the Civil War, World War I and World War II, the Great Depression, and then, like, some other like things too. And then went on to warn that the earth will end in a great fire. Wow. So she's been correct about every single prediction so far. Like she also said that like we would find Atlantis. Like we would like do all this stuff. What? And said the earth will end in a great fire. I mean I think honestly that one's not as impressive because I think anybody could be like

the earth is going to end it a great fire. I don't know if I would question the witch. I'm not questioning. I'm just saying like, yeah. I don't want that to happen. I agree. That like reading, I was reading that last night at like 11 o'clock and I was like, I don't like that part. But it's like, it seems most likely.

It does. You know? Yeah. So now we're going to get into like some real shit. I mean, the whole thing was real shit. But now we're going to get into like more recent real shit. Okay, cool. So over the years, multiple people have tried to solve the mystery of the bell witch because

they're like, what the actual fuck? Yeah. So during the years that the family was being haunted, the voice claimed to be different people, and the voice would change from time to time. At one point, it claimed that it was Kate Bats, who was a nearby neighbor. And history would actually show later that she was a relative of the Bell family. I believe she was Lucy's niece, like Lucy's brother's daughter. Oh, okay. But Kate was said to have had a pretty heated argument with John Bell over land and said she was going to curse him. But she was said she was going to curse him. But, Kate was said to have. But, she was said to have had a pretty heated argument to have had a pretty heated argument with John Bell over land and, and like, said she was going to curse him. But. But she denied any involvement in the haunting. It was like, no, this has nothing to do with me. But people really... I'm not involved in the haunting of that one. I am not involved. But she, people, like, believed that it was her. And, like, the spirit, like, they started calling the spirit Kate because they thought it was her. Oh my God. And the spirit started being, like, responding to Kate, like, yeah, it's me. Sure, it's Kate. It's me, Kate. So, and it's

sad because she seemed like an easy target. She was just, like, kind of an outcast in the town. She was, like, a little weird. And like, yeah, that's always the. She liked to be the center of attention, so it was just kind of like a perfect recipe. But some pretty information, some pretty information. Some pretty information. Some pretty interesting information would come when Walter and Chris Kirby bought the farm in 1993. So recent. Or really moving on up.

Yes. Now, they recalled to their friend Camille Moffitt, who wrote that book I've mentioned, quote, our dream was to own a tobacco farm. We saved for years, but every time we put a contract on something, something, excuse me, we put a contract on one, something happened and the deal fell through. It was like something was blocking our every effort. Huh. So they keep trying to like buy these farms and it's not working out for them. And then their luck changed and the deal on the Bell farm went over seamlessly. So it was like they really felt like and they feel like they are supposed to live on this farm. Yeah,

like they were they were like chosen. And like this place. Yes. So Walter was super excited that their luck had changed, but he was also really nervous to tell his wife about this because the major caveat was that it was haunted as fuck. That you'll have like a really angry witch. You might not say. That might live with you. Yeah. So when he told her though, his wife, Chris, it was like, oh, no worries.

My psychic told me that we were going to get this property and that there was a quote, highly supernatural energy there. I love that she's like, no worries. My psychic told me. I already know. Yeah, like, it's cool. It is what it is. She can sublet a bedroom.

It's fine. Right? Chris was also told that most of the energy derived from some kind of permanent structure on the property that was detached from the actual home itself. Ah, like a barn of some sort of? No, a cave. A cave. A cave. Oh, even spookier. That I want to go to. Maybe. Maybe. Oh, girl. Just you wait. I mean, barns are just really creepy to me. Yeah, ma'am papa's barn. I'm like, oh, terrifying. They were creepy. But this cave takes the cake. Oh, all right. Takes the cave cake. Takes the cave cake. So with that, they moved in. And the haunting started the very first night that they were there. Did not waste any time. They woke up in the middle of the night to this like crazy crashing sound. And they described it like a glass picture being

shattered on the ground. Wow. But they were like maybe something shifted in the moving boxes. Like this is the, totally. But when they looked like nothing was out of place. And then the next morning, Chris remembered that the family who they'd brought the property from, they were the Edens. And the wife and the Eden family left a book of experiences that they had put together while they lived there. Like, everybody that lived there had a journal. Like, most of the accounts from the earlier days come from Williams' Journal. Williams's Journal. That's so creepy. It is weird. And the family, the Eden family, like I said, wrote a book about their experiences and left it for the Kirby's. So she, so Chris like picked up the book the next morning to see if, like, see if she could find

anything about that like water pitching noise. Yeah. And when she did, she's like flicking through the pages and she just opens to this random page and the chapter was titled Breaking Glass. What? Just like open to that page. And I keep forgetting this is in the 90s. Yeah, this is the 90s.

We're not in the 1800s anymore. And the same noise was described as like a pretty usual occurrence. So Chris said later. The truth is, if we had believed wholeheartedly in it, we wouldn't have bought the place. We didn't. But now they, like, they knew that, like, something was there, but I think they didn't, like, fully understand what it was. Yeah.

Now they did. Oh. So part of Chris's new life on the farm would be, like, like you had said before, like, why doesn't anybody, like, try to make some money while they're here? Yeah. Later on, they started. And they would give tours in this cave on the property. So, the cave.

was like really well known throughout the legend to be the place where the witch retreated to after John Bell had died. And people claimed that it was wickedly haunted. And people would like try to break in all the time. Like it was a hot commodity. Yeah, a hot commodity this cave. They had to put like a gate like near it so that nobody could break into it. It's Zillow listing says like hot, hot home, hot home. Hot cave. Like all offers will be like accepted tomorrow. Yeah, absolutely. So Chris actually brought her psychic into the cave before the tour started just to see what she was getting into. And because she had been exploring on the property one day, like taking pictures. And around the area of the cave, she saw orbs and actual people in the photos that she had taken.

So one photo showed a little boy in overalls who the psychic ended up seeing when they entered the cave. Now, Chris's psychic told her that this cave was likely some kind of portal because there was way more than, then just one spirit dwelling there. She was like, there are like hundreds of spirits in this cave. Like, this is not just the bell witch. Oh, that's horrifying. And she felt like everything stemmed from the cave. Like, that's where all the hauntings came from. And the first room in the cave, actually, because there's rooms in this cave, too. It's like, it almost sounds like it's like remodeled. You can look at pictures of it. And it has little rooms. And they put like electric lighting throughout like that like so you can see where you're going yeah um now the first room in the cave actually has a

tomb where a native american girl was laid to rest oh wow she had now this is fucked she had died of a gunshot wound to the chest in either the early or the 1700s or the early 1800s but she later was stolen from the tomb yeah now there's also narrow hallways and a large room in the back of the cave and the room in the front. And I literally want to go with you, but I'm so scared. I want to go so bad, but I'm... You have to sign a waiver. Yeah, whenever there's a waiver, I hesitate. I don't love a waiver. I hesitate. Now, Bob, I think you say shot. It's S-C-H-O-T-T. I think it sounds like shot to me. Yeah, it doesn't look like Scott. But he's a renowned paranormal investigator with top-of-the-line investigative equipment.

And he, I mean, Chris and her husband would get like tons of people coming being like, I want to investigate this. But this guy was like the real deal. So they're like, let's do it. Let's do it. So he and his team set up in the cave. And while they were there, they experienced like the usual things, like drops in temperature and feeling like a presence is in the room.

And they took like a photo at the same time as like the temperature went down and there was like orbs in the picture. Oh, okay. So like some like interesting stuff, but like pretty usual. Yeah. But then something turned. So one night they set up this really high-tech video camera with like crazy night vision and some like infrared filter that's supposedly five times stronger than the military.

Wow. Okay. Yeah. So like some whole ass shit. Yeah. And it captured what looked like a door that slid open in the cave. And like the door just appeared out of nowhere, slid open. And two human forms walked through.

and then just as quickly as it appeared, it disappeared. What? So multiple people who study the paranormal have seen the footage and have absolutely no explanation as to why that would have happened. Like, there's no, like, lighting fluke or anything like that that would have made that happen. Wow. Yeah. So this woman named Rosemary Ellen Gulli, I believe, so I say it, she's a famous paranormal expert. And she agreed with Bob that this was the doorway to a portal between the physics.

world and the paranormal world. And that's where all these hauntings had been coming from. It's an actual doorway. It is literally a doorway. Like a literal door. Now, the book says the cave is the genesis of the bell witch. Damn. Yes. So it made sense that the voices of the spirit would change and it would claim to be different people. It was different people. It wasn't always the same. Like, I'm sure that there is like a bell witch, like one specific entity that like really focused on the family, but like, I really believe. But it was like these hundreds of spirits that were just like tormenting this family. Yes, 100%. And some of them weren't even tormenting the family. Like, yeah, like the one helping Lucy. The one helping Lucy. Or there was at one point, um, there was like a family

that was living there. And a calf was going a calf was like really, really sick. And as they were walking by, they heard like this loud bang in the barn where the calf was staying. And they didn't realize until they heard that bang that the catholic needed. attention quickly. Oh, wow. So whoever like made that sound in there was trying to help the animal. It was like alerting them to. Yes. And it makes sense because when you hear how nice it was to Lucy, you're like, what? That doesn't make sense. And then it's like, it's a totally different person. There's also another theory about that that we're going to get into at the very end. But first, just this quick note too. So later, while looking in the smokehouse that was on the property,

Chris discovered leg bones, arms, and parts of a skull. Oh, okay. Yeah. So the bones were later determined to be two to three thousand years old and identified as a member of the Mississippi Mound Builders tribe. Holy shit. So that specific tribe was known to bury their dead sitting upright in the earth, like no coffin, not covered at all.

So it made sense that the legs and the arms were the parts that she found in like part of the skull, but because they were discovered so long after burial because they were closer to the bottom of the earth. Oh, wow. So like it makes sense. Now, Chris found out that above the cave, there was a Native American burial ground and that the graves there were also two to three thousand years old. Wow. Now, she found out that ceremonies would be performed inside the cave by shamans to open a portal. Now, another quote from the book says, quote, the mound builders had not buried their dead on top of the cave so that they would be near the portal.

They had opened the portal in the cave because it was near the burial place of their dead. It sounds like magic, but the consequences are very, very real. Wow. So they believe that like these shamans from these tribes made this portal so that they could still like connect with their loved ones that had passed on. But I don't know if shit, that's when they like abandoned. the place because Native Americans abandoned this land and like felt like it was it was almost like you would the Turn Bull Canyon. Yeah. Like they felt like it was like sacred but also like cursed. Yeah. It turned into something not great. Yes. Wow. So Chris had some wild things happened to her while

she was in the cave giving tours. The most common occurrences during tours were like when hot shot people nonbelievers would show up and end up getting like slapped in the face physically assaulted if they're disrespectful to the bell witch in particular. Like, if you go in there and you're like, I'm not afraid of her, like, you will literally get assaulted. Oh my God. And Chris points out that anyone who takes something from the cave, like takes like a rock or like something. Why would you do that? Stupid. Faces death or injury. And apparently a woman took like a little pebble. And Chris warned her. She was like, I don't, you should, if you want to, like, I don't care. But like, it's not going to. It's never turned out well for other people. And the lady was like, I think she literally was like,

that's nonsense. And then she came back either the next day or like a couple hours later and she was like bleeding. Like she had like gotten into some kind of accident. Holy shit. Yeah. Like I said, you literally have to sign a waiver before you can go on the tour. And some people end up running out of the cave like as fast as they walked in. I don't know if I could handle. That sounds like a lot. Yeah, it sounds like a lot. So this is where we're going to get into like a pretty serious accusation. But it does make a little bit of sense. So there's so many books about this. There's another novel by Brett Monaghan. And he pointed out in the 1977 novel, The Bell Witch, some interesting facts and opinions on the Bell Witch haunting

regarding the Bell family. He believed that, because John and Betsy were the ones who, like, were really targeting. Yeah. There were eight other children. Yeah. Like, some of them weren't living in the house, but it was a big family. And then you think of a lot of the people that came, like, mostly really didn't get assaulted unless they were like, we're, But he was like, why were they the main targets? So he believes that John was molesting Betsy. And the book, The Bell Witch, the truth exposed, points out that, quote, young girls who are being victimized by incest are predisposed to poltergeist activity. And ironically, the victim herself is typically the target of the haunting. Wow. Now, there are factors that support this, because the Bell family

documented, like I said, almost every experience. And they noted multiple times that the witch stated the reason why she was there. But they never came out and said what the reason was. Only that the witch said John Bell was like a really bad man. Oh, shit. Yes. And they said that she was lying. And they wouldn't repeat what she said. Now, the spirit also showed up when Betsy was 12. Because at that point, Esther, who she used to share her room with, her only sister, was like out and married. So Betsy had her own room at that point. Oh. So, you know. And Betsy was 12 when this all began. And John had married Lucy when she was 12 and he was 32. Oh. Yeah. So I mean, it's not like concrete evidence, but it is an interesting theory. It's an interesting theory. And it's like,

that's why it wanted to slowly kill John Bell. I don't understand why like Betsy would have been victimized like that. Yeah, but it sounds like that seems to be. It just sounds like. that's just how it goes. And then the spirit must have felt really bad for Lucy because this was happening to her child at the hands of her husband, potentially. Wow. Yeah. So it's a little, like, that's wild. It's crazy. That's wild. And then there was some other information in the book that you should definitely go read, the Bell Witch Truth Exposed, because it was actually written by a friend of the Kirby family. Oh, okay. And like, there's all these like firsthand experiences. But they point out that he, John Bell had been excommunity, excommunicated by the church at one point because he was doing like some shady dealings where he lent

a slave, which sounds horrible, to a neighbor and was like, um, like charging the neighbor like crazy taxes and like interest rates. For like, borrowing the slave. For a person. Yeah, for a person. But he, he was like definitely very shady. It has also been noted in history that he killed a man. Oh. Yeah. He killed a man. Literally killed a man. Literally killed. a man. And it's just like a bullet point in the book. I was going to say it's just noted. It's like, it's just noted in history. He also murdered someone before. He killed a man. Yeah. So just I want to end this on like, like, just like a creepy little quote from the book that was said by the bell witch. So though the world may not recognize spirits, whether good or demon, both will be here. It will have many

of each. Oh. So it's also so interesting that she said that because like if she is there, she knows what's going on. She knows that there's like a door and a portal. So she's like, there's lots of spirits here. Like, some of them are good. Some of them are not. But we're all here. Whoa. So spooky. Oh, my God. Yes. All of that. So spooky. Damn. Right. Here I thought it was, I was like, oh, we've done some gnarly cases lately. Like, we're going to take it into like a fun spooky place. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh. Yeah. Damn. Then you like bring some serious allegations. to the table. I really took it somewhere. It truly did.

I've been waiting for that case. That's a great one. Such a good case. But holy crap. There are about a million books you can read, but definitely read the truth exposed. Yeah, and we'll link it in the show notes like we always do. Yeah, definitely. But wow, that was crazy.

Thanks. Thanks for taking us on that ride. You're welcome. And guys, we hope you read those books and we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you open a portal by. Yeah, don't do that. Don't sign the waiver.

No.