Morbid - The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Part 1)

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

When sixteen-year-old Anneliese Michel began having seizures and hallucinations in 1968, her parents took her to a doctor, who diagnosed Anneliese with temporal lobe epilepsy and depression and recommended psychiatric treatment. Two years later, however, her delusions and hallucinations returned, manifesting in the form of “devil faces” and voices that telling her she was evil and would be going to hell. Believing the treatment wasn’t working and fearing Anneliese was possessed by demons, Anneliese’s family arranged for her to be visited by a local Jesuit priest, who confirmed their fear: Anneliese was possessed and the only way to save her soul was an exorcism.ReferencesAssociated Press. 1978. "Bizarre exorcism draws suspended prison terms." Press-Courier (Oxnard, CA), April 22: 3.—. 1978. "Exorcists 'tried to save girl'." The Guardian, March 31: 6.Buschschluter, Siegfried. 1977. "Charges after exorcism death." The Guardian, July 14: 6.Day, Elizabeth. 2005. "'God told us to exorcise my daughter's demons. I don't regret her death.'." Sunday Telegraph (London, UK), November 27: 15.Goodman, Felicitas D. 1981. The Exorcism of Annaliese Michel. New York, NY: Doubleday and Company.Hansen, Eric T. 2005. "What in God's name?" Washington Post, September 4.Sword, Autumn. 2021. "Seized By the Spirit: Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and the Exorcism of Anneliese Michel." Skeptical Inquirer, July 30.Time. 1976. "Religion: A Phenomenon of Fear." Time, September 6.  Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid.com. Elfie. I want to talk about something important. What? Wendy's. Do you know how I always tell you guys that the fo-f-fo is the way to go? Like, I used to tell you guys that it's been a while. I was going to say, it's been a while. What did I get today? I'm looking it up. I don't know if you remember. I know that. It's the pretzel bun sandwich and it has like beer cheese. I'm sounding real big right now, but it had beer cheese on it and pickles and fried onions. And it was the most beautiful thing I think I've ever ate and eaten in my life. It was good. I didn't. I could only eat half of it. But I get spicy nugs.

I think you guys should go to Wendy's right now and get that sandwich. Get it. We're not sponsored by Wendy's. We're not sponsored by Wendy's. Never have been. You know who is, Lisa Barlow. And you can also get the baby gorgeous meal. I would like to talk about how I'm a little bit disappointed that the baby Gorge's meal is just a 10-piece chicken nugget. Yeah, I mean, I don't know anything about Lisa Barlow or why it's called the Baby Gorgeous meal or anything of that sort. Lisa Barlow is from Salt Lake City Housewives. She loves fast food.

You would love her because she loves Taco Bell too. Love that. But she loves Wendy's. And one time her child, who she was picking up from school, got in her car and she said, hi, baby gorgeous. And now she has the baby gorgeous meal at Wendy's the end. Honestly, baby gorgeous is a great way to talk to your child. Yeah.

And if you sound like her, it's even better. Hi, baby gorgeous. Oh, and she recently released a song called Baby Gorgeous. Oh, wow. Okay. Where she says, you're just baby gorgeous. Wow. It sounds just like that.

I've really missed out, I guess. You did. But I would say don't get that meal because it's kind of a boring order. Shit. I would say. Lisa is coming for you. No. Don't come for me, Lisa.

Don't, Lisa. I don't know who you are, but don't. I was friends with Angie first, so. Oh, there you go. Period. But I would get the pretzel bun sandwich. I love a pretzel bun, so I'm with you on that. You got a good looking frosty over there.

I swear this isn't a good looking frosty. It really isn't. But if they'd like to, I'd come up with a meal. This is our plea. Can you imagine if Wendy's? Oh, my God. Wendy's. You can have a big thing going for you.

I mean. And like, it doesn't even just have to be our listeners. morbid is pretty. It's pretty like all encompassing. Yeah. Anything can be morbid. And for the season of October, it's literally spooky season. Yeah.

Wendy's. I think we should get on it. I'm making a plea. Personally. I've been talking about you guys for years. It's true. If you saw 4-4 sales go up in like 2019, baby that was baby gorgeous, that was me. And if you heard people roll up on that speaker and say, I'll have a fo-fafo, then you know where it can.

from because I never called it a four before a poe p pop a pooh so yeah so that's that I don't know I we didn't intend for that to go like no um what's up yeah this I'm rewatching widow's bay and it's just as good it's even better are you noticing things that you didn't I am starting to we just started but like I'm also it's the funniest fucking show no it's like that show is brilliant I'm I will shout it from the rooftops I love that show But she said, you had your qualms? You had your qualms? It's so fucking good.

Like that episode of Sunset Cocktails with Prishishya will, that's the best episode. I'll never get over it. Have we talked about before? Was it Paul Tremblay's wife who told us that you can get the playlist? Oh, the playlist. Yeah, it exists on Spotify. Oh, yeah, I listened to it. It's great.

It is. Yeah, we listened to it recently. It's an awesome playlist. It's on Spotify. Remember we were listening to it and the girls were. like, what the fuck is this? They were like, what is going on? Like, what are you dancing to? It's just like 90s R&B. It's great. It's awesome. Patricia knew what she was doing. She did. Patricia for life. And you know, I don't know how to segue into what we're going to talk about.

Unfortunately, it's not going to be nearly as fun as Wendy's Fofo's Pretzel Buns or Patricia. No. And Roland, you can hit the counter. Roland. I like it. I like it. I will say somebody commented who does the time counts that I saw. And they were like, you guys are really funny. Starts at this time. And I was like, at least thank you for the compliment. Hey, I mean, I'm glad you're enjoying the beginning.

I think they like being called out. Yeah. I mean, because we're just giving you your flowers. Yeah. You're doing a service. This one's for you. So Roland, this one, this one's for you. Pour one out for Roland.

Today, because it's spooky season. It's proctober. It's proctober, everybody. Proctober. Which stands for pre-October in case you didn't know. John Proctober. Yes. It's a nasty.

Exactly. So today we're going to talk about an exorcism. This is a pretty famous one. Yeah? It's a pretty gnarly one. They usually are. They always are, I feel. And this one is going to be two parts because there is just so much.

A two-part exorcism. It's a very intense case. Fuck. We're talking about the exorcism of Annalise Michel. Oh, I don't think I know this one. This one is wild. Okay. It's a wild one.

And she gets possessed. Tell me everything. This one's wild because, as I will state several times, every single religious person around her, like priests, anybody like that, were like, yeah, I don't think you're possessed. No way. And that ever, they were like, no, we are. Like the family was like, absolutely this is what's going on.

I think that doesn't always know that way. No, it doesn't. Usually the priests come and they're like, damans. But this one was like, no, I think you should see a doctor. Did Ed and Lorraine Warren find her? No, because this is in Germany. Ed and Lorraine didn't even find her. They didn't get to, they didn't get into this one.

This is a different kind of exorcism. This one's from the 70s, too. So it's in Germany. So I think Ed and Lorraine didn't get their gnarly little claws into this one. All right. That's shocking. Let's talk about who Annalise was, because this one's also really tragic. Because when you hear about Annalise, you're like, wow, you had, like, a lot going for you.

Oh, yeah. Like, you were, like, a pretty good childhood, like, was really on a good path. And then it just kind of something happened. That's interesting too, because I feel like a lot of times, like, it's usually a more tragic case even beforehand. Yeah, because you feel like it maybe like thrives on a little chaos or tragedy? Yeah. Like the demon or whatever it is. So Annalise Elizabeth, Michelle, which she liked to be called Annalise, not Annalise Elizabeth.

Okay. She was born September 21st, 1952 in Bavaria, West Germany. She was the second of five children to Yosef and Anna Michelle. According to anthropologist Felisa Tasco Goodman, the Michels were a stable, frugal, industrious, slow-moving German middle-class family, more peasant than urban. He used the most amount of adjectives you could possibly use to describe a family. He would have probably been accused of using AI there. I was like just a lot of comparisons. And not one of them was super kind.

No, not at all. Just like slow-moving. Imagine if somebody described your entire face. Emily is slow moving. Like, okay, fuck you. They were also deeply, devoutly Catholic. In fact, it was only because of poor grades in Latin class that Yosef did not become a priest to myself. You got to know the Latin to be a priest. You got to know the Latin to become a priest. You need to don't read the Latin, but know the Latin. Now, despite the pretty, like, idyllic environment in which Annalise was raised, her childhood was dominated by her parents' rigid adherence.

to Catholicism and much of their social lives were built around the church, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm just saying that was part of it. Yeah. In both school and home, educational and religious lessons focused heavily on biblical tales of battles between good and evil, in which the children were raised to know the names of various demonic entities. And there was an emphasis on the role that humans play in the ongoing struggle. So it was put in there pretty early. Yeah, planted the seed. Seed was planted. And the only recorded discussion between a young Annalise and a local priest, Arnold Rends, the two can be heard talking about the terrible fate that awaits those who align themselves

with the forces of evil. You can hear Annalise say, hell must be monstrously horrible. And then they just kind of moved on to a new subject. So she already had that fear of hell. She had that fear of demons. She knew a lot about demons. When I was there. I was so scared of hell.

that's wild yeah which is funny because i didn't grow up super religious yeah but i like went to church sometimes like on my dad's side every now and again and it's usually like a pretty hot topic at oh they loved they love talking about yeah we went to like a church that started with a pee like the the religion was a p i don't remember which one it was presbyterian probably protestant probably puritan i didn't stand put them there i didn't go to that one i didn't stand puttum there but i was scared of hell There was also the very real and recent specter that hung over post-war Germany at the time of Annalise's birth. Oh, yeah.

Clearly. Her father was in the army and spent time in a prisoner of war camp. So whether it was his experience in the war or just the era in which he was raised, Yosef took his role as a father and a provider in his eyes very seriously. Yeah. He ran his household like he ran his business with an emphasis on tradition, obedience. not a ton of like, you know, just like fuzzy warm feelings. That's not to suggest that he didn't care for his children. In fact, according to Goodman, Annalise and her sister, quote,

sensed his passionate love for them. Oh. But he was very stern and he had very high expectations. And again, he demanded obedience, especially from his children. Okay. Now, obedience is a wild word for children. Yeah. That's more for an animal.

Even animals. I'm always like, that's crazy. I'm like, my dog is reckless. I know, I was going to say, my dog's not so much, but maybe someone else's. Now, the family was pretty close. There was three younger siblings, three younger sisters. Annalise had ready access. And I think she had had one sibling who had passed away.

Oh, okay. Annalise had ready access to playmates whenever she wanted them. Like, it's not like she was, like, isolated in the house or anything, like, reading a Bible. That's good. But she also struggled with, like, kind of poor health in her early. years and she was prone to getting infections. After the death of their first daughter to illness, Annalise's parents became understandably hypervigilant when it came to her health. Yeah, I'm sure. I get that. Her mother would often tell people to explain her daughter's poor health. She would say,

I was still weak when I carried her. Now, fortunately, by the time she reached her early teens, Annalise seemed to be growing out of those health problems that she'd experienced. In 1965, she started participating in sports. She started making new friends, like was really growing and developing how they expected her to. Hell yeah. Her friend Maria said she was just like the rest of us. She was a jolly girl participating in the schoolgirl pranks and jokes. Fun. And when she wasn't with friends, she was at home helping her parents keep up with the younger girls. Her father told Felisa Tos Goodman, Annalise had a way of just glowing with joy. Oh. So like, so he clearly loves her. Yeah. Like, they speak of her like a loving parent would.

Yeah. Now, by the time she reached high school, Annalise's health problem seemed to be entirely gone. She really was really adept at academics. She was really good at sports. And her mother used to brag about her. She would say she's so good. She will very likely become a school teacher one day. And that was what she wanted to do.

Okay. Her commitment to her education was clearly, like, showing that she was ambitious. And like her parents, she wanted more for herself than a job. just work the family business, keep the books for her father, just like working shops in town. Yeah. She had dreams, baby. I love it. Now, as she entered further into her teen years, obviously her life got a little more complicated

when it came to boys. Yeah. As it does. Oh, honey. It's a natural part of growing up in a near constant part of the human experience to suddenly realize that other humans are striking your fancy. Yes. I love how you put that.

Now, but in a small village like Klingenberg. Obsessed. Absolutely. I will not let that pass by. I'm upset. Klingenberg? Klingenberg. Klingenberg.

Yeah, Klingenberg. Let's fucking go. Religion dominated a lot of that human existence. Maybe let's not go. And, you know, sexuality, especially for girls and young women, was something of a minefield, especially at that time. Yeah. As the boys and girls in the village started mixing at school, church, other social events,

parents became increasingly paranoid about what was going to happen if they were left alone. Annalise's mother would remind her of the old adage. And I know you're all going to say, oh, that old chestnut. Is it the cow in the milk? No. No? This one's a lot. A girl's honor is like a white sheet.

Every spot shows. I don't think I never heard that one, right? Me neither. Wow. I mean, it's not as bad as the, uh, the, uh, the cow. and the milk for free. I don't know. I mean, it's pretty bad.

I don't know. Damn. Yeah. So there's that. More often than not, her mother could successfully keep her from going to dances or other social functions by reminding her of her fragile health that she once had and warning her that she might get sick again if she pushed herself too hard. Okay.

So they were a little over the top. Yeah. Now, when the school year started in 1968, Annalise was excited about the future. And according to her friend Maria, she spoke endlessly about attending college in Worsburg and becoming a teacher. Cool. But a few weeks after her 16th birthday, everything started to change. Oh, no. Now, one afternoon in early October, Annalise inexplicably passed out while sitting in class.

Oh. Now, it wasn't this dramatic thing. She kind of just slumped forward on her desk. And her friend Maria was like, she's like, I thought she just fell asleep. Yeah. So she poked her arm like, hey, you got to wake up. And Annalise slowly raised her head and looked like she was in a daze, though. Huh.

And she told Maria, maybe I studied too much. And she really didn't think much about it. Like she kind of thought she fell asleep, I guess. Okay. Just went about the day as normal. But later that night, she had another experience she couldn't explain. A little after midnight, Annalise was woken from her sleep and felt like she was being held down by a powerful unseen force. Hate that.

The weight of whatever was holding her down was so strong that she couldn't move. of muscle. And in a moment of panic, Annalise tried to call out for help, but when she opened her mouth, no sound came out. Sounds like sleep paralysis. Thank you. I said, I too feel that feeling. I know that. The pressure on her abdomen, though, this is where it changes a little bit. She said there was pressure. It felt like something was pressing down on her. And you don't feel that way. When I've experienced sleep paralysis, it might be different for other people. I'm not trying to say my experience is universal. I just feel like I can't move. Okay.

I don't feel like something is like physically holding you down. Like, like pressure on me. I just feel like I can't move or yell. She had a lot of pressure and the pressure on her abdomen was so intense that she could feel herself involuntarily urinating. Oh, fuck. Which is intense. Yeah, that's more than.

Like that's different. I would think. Now later when Annalise described the incident, she said she believed she was dying. Like that's how scary it was. Then she heard the clock at the nearby church sound at the quote. quarter hour, like the bells, and the pressure just disappeared. And the only evidence that anything had happened at all was her slightly sore tongue, because she said she was, like, biting and trying to, like, move her mouth. And that she had, like, what, the bed? Yeah. Wow. That morning,

Annalise told her mother that she must have been sick the night before, and she was allowed to stay home from school. Okay. And because of her history of, you know, poor health, there was no reason to risk anything. And by the end of the day, she was feeling like herself. So, okay. They just were, like, that was weird. Yeah, like fluke illness, I guess. No, the rest of the school year passed by without incident. But on August 24th, 1969, it happened again, just as it had the previous year. That afternoon, Annalise experienced a sort of like strange blacking out. It wasn't like she'd briefly fallen asleep. But it was like a moment where, and this is a quote, she just sat and did not know what she was about to do. That night, she was awoken from her sleep with the same feeling of

paralysis again, same type, like kind of feelings. She couldn't move her arms and legs and felt as if she was being held down. She tried to scream and nothing came out. The next morning, she told her mother about the experience and she was immediately on the phone to the doctor to arrange for her to be seen. As a general practitioner, the doctor was like, yeah, I can't really explain what's going on here. So he referred to her to a neurologist. Okay. Which is valid. Smart. And that afternoon, she and her mother traveled to Ashafenberg. to the office of Dr. Siegfried Luffy. Along the way, Annalise's mother was so anxious, like, couldn't control her anxiety.

She was wringing her hands. She kept sighing, and she told her daughter, Dr. Votes said it might be something with your brain. Let's not talk about this to anyone outside the family. You know how people talk. Oh. Which is also like... I just think about the fact that she's already lost a child,

and I can't imagine what was going through her brain. Yeah, that's the thing. And then it's like the whole... stigma of like something might be going on with your brain and we don't want anyone to know about it. It's like, that's not her fault. No, not at all. But, you know, Dr. Luffy turned out to be a curt, but very highly competent specialist who ran through all the usual tests with Annalise. But based on his evaluation, he said he couldn't see anything wrong with her.

Huh. In fact, he later told police investigators, which told you where this goes. Neurologically and psychologically, all findings were negative. Like, nothing wrong. Yeah. But Annalise and her mother both seemed very distressed, so he asked them to return the following week for an EEG test. The test, though, proved no more insightful than any of the other exams. The results showed a perfectly normal 16-year-old girl.

Wow. Now, regardless of the negative test results, obviously Annalise was describing two potentially concerning experiences that could have an origin in the brain that the EEG and other previous texts just weren't. Picking up on. Yeah. Like, they realized that. Like, you know, possibly didn't even know about yet. Yeah, like there's a very real possibility. Dr. Luffy said, I judged from the description I was given that this was probably a case of

cerebral seizures of the nocturnal type. Oh. With the symptoms of a grand mal epilepsy. Oh, fuck. Now, what happened next seems to be a matter of some speculation, though. And a letter written by the doctor to investigators in 1976. He indicated that he prescribed Zentrapil, an antiret. an anti-convulsant drug.

Okay. And he scheduled a follow-up appointment with her. That's what he wrote in a letter to investigators in 1976. Okay. But when he was questioned by police a short time later, Dr. Luffy insisted he had not yet prescribed her any medication. And instead, he said he just recommended her further observation since only two attacks occurred within an interval of a year.

Okay. So that's like what happened there? Yeah. And was there any evidence that she was on that medicine that anybody knows about? Well, that's why it's relevant to talk about because the timing of the medication has the relevance, because it could coincide with her rapid decline in health. If she was on that medicine? If she didn't need it. Oh, I see.

Now, upon returning to school for the new year, just a few weeks after her visit to Dr. Luffy, Annalise was noticeably unwell. First, she complained of a chronic sore throat, which ultimately resulted, or tonsils being removed. Oh, and that surgery when you're older is supposed to be, like, horrific. Not long after the surgery, she contracted pleuracy, which is inflammation of the lungs, and pneumonia, which soon became complicated by tuberculosis infection. Holy shit.

Now, recovering from those illnesses required, obviously, long periods of bed rest. So Annalise had to withdraw from school and from all social events that holiday season. By January, her condition had shown not. really a lot of signs of improvements. So she was admitted to the hospital in O'Shafenberg in early February. I mean, TB is no joke alone. And then I can't imagine pairing that with pneumonia. And then was she still continuing to have the experiences that she was having where she was waking up with the pressure? I don't think she was having those at the same time. But by the end of February, she was still not showing adequate signs of improvements. So she was transferred to a sanatorium in the mountain town of

Middleberg, which specialized in respiratory illness for children. Okay. And that's what it was referred to as as a sanatorium. Yeah. Although this place was full of patients, her same age, she did find the experience very isolating and depressing. I'm sure, because also you're being moved away from your whole family and your sisters and your friends.

Like, she had never been like an exceedingly social person, like over the top, but she was accustomed to being around a large family. Yeah. Who laughed and sang together and had nice times. And like you said, she did sports and that kind of thing. Yeah, but the other girls at the sanatorium weren't unkind to her in any way, but they seemed to have already formed a bond by the time she arrived. They had been there already.

So they weren't really interested in giving her a big welcome into the group. Oh, well, that's sad. Also because everybody's feeling shitty. I'm like, cheer each other up. No one's feeling good. And the isolation was made worse by the regular letters that she was receiving from everyone at home. They had obviously intended to cheer her up. Yeah.

But under the circumstance. is it just kind of made her realize what she was missing out on. Yeah. Which is sad. They're like, hey, we're doing all this shit. How's the sanatorium where nobody's hanging out with you? Yeah. That's fucked up.

Now, by spring, her condition had improved somewhat. Okay. But the doctors were concerned about some potential heart problems and insisted she remain at the sanatorium. Okay. Then in June 1970, she had another inexplicable attack. Oh. It all happened the way it had before.

Stiffness in her arms and legs, a feeling of being crushed, involuntary urination. inability to scream. Is this indicative of like another illness at all? It feels like a seizure. It does feel a little bit like a seizure. But she's supposed to possibly have been on anti-seizure medication? And that's where the... But we're not sure.

Because there's like that conflicting. Yeah. Information. That's weird. Yeah. It's very weird. And also you would think that there would be like a prescription history, especially the time that she was at the hospital.

Yeah. I mean, it was in the 60s and 70s, so I don't know. Yeah, I don't know how that works. And in Germany, I don't know how it all works. But I'm like, wouldn't you think there'd be like a log? You would think so. But I do not know. But eventually, the paralysis weakened enough that Annalise let loose a terrifying scream

that woke up all the other girls in the dormitory and brought the night nurse running to her. Oh, shit. But by the time the nurse arrived, the entire episode was over. Okay. Now, a few days later, just past dinner time, Annalise was sitting outside saying the rosary. And she did that every night when she was home.

And it was around dusk and the sun was setting over the mountains. And she said for the first time since she arrived there, she could see the beauty in her surroundings. Suddenly. Well, that's nice. Like she had this like moment of just peace and like clarity. And she said after so much stress and upset in the previous year, she felt a noticeable sense of calm wash over her. All right. It was like something had changed.

From behind her, she could hear a bunch of the girls talking, and eventually she realized that they were talking about her. And one of the girls asked loudly, what were you doing? And Annalise was like, I'm praying the rosary. But they were like, no, we know what that is. And they were like, what are you doing with your hands? Okay. Like, what were you doing?

And Annalise must have looked confused because one of the girls explained, we were watching you, like you had a cramp or something. Like when my cat stretches her claws, like you had. pause or something. What? And Annalise didn't realize it, but she must have been clenching and unclenching her hands, which from a distance looked as though she was holding them in like a claw like. Okay. And then another girl said, in your eyes, I thought they were blue. Now they're all black. What the fuck? Now, Annalise just laughed them off, but she got up and went to a mirror. And her eyes weren't black. Not exactly, but they did look a much darker shade of blue than what they normally

were. Okay. And she said her complexion had also appeared to have improved slightly, like, or not even slightly significantly, to be honest, because her face had been super pale and like very sickly looking. Yeah. But she said she looked at herself that afternoon and she was rosy and flush like her circulation was suddenly turned on. That's very strange. Now, the feeling of calmness lingered for a few days. She felt very calm until she was informed that she was being taken by trained to see a new specialist for more tests to find out whether her neurological condition had changed. Okay.

This time, Annalise saw a new doctor, Dr. Von Holler, who conducted another EEG. This time, the test showed a slight irregularity, but nothing so abnormal that it would have caused the symptoms previously described by Annalise. But again, the symptoms she described did closely resemble a form of epilepsy. Yeah. So Dr. von Holler prescribed anti-convulsant medication. So now we know for sure. Now, in the days after the appointment with Dr. Von Holler,

Enelie spent her evenings looking out at the mountains and praying the rosary and trying to call up that feeling of warmth that she had a week before. And it was during one of those late afternoons as she was sitting by the windows praying that it happened. Eyes closed, she ran through the prayer. She said countless times before. Then, without warning, something came over her. She said like a flash of lightning. She opened her eyes and looked out the window and she saw a frotson or a huge cruelly grimacing face on the horizon, which is the scariest shit I could conceive of.

Like in the distance? Yeah, like on the horizon a huge cruelly grimacing face. Oh. Yeah. I hate that. The terrifying face disappeared as quickly as it had appeared, but it left her with so much unease. Yeah. She had always found solace in her religious.

beliefs in prayer, but now every time she attempted to pray, she thought of that horrible evil face and found herself unable to finish a single prayer. Now, in addition to the stress of her illness and this like chaotic shared living arrangement she was in, she felt super bad anxiety and like a lot of fear especially associated around prayer, which used to be her like solace. That's really sad. And she really wanted to pray to try to like restore that sense of order into her life because that's like her routine. She's out of it now. Like that's hard. But she worried that what was going to happen if she tried to do it. Okay.

And a few days later, she put her rosary in her bedside drawer and didn't retrieve it again until she left the sanatorium. That's really sad. It is really sad. Now, she remained there for six more weeks and every day was filled with loneliness and dread. It was not good. Although she had stopped praying, that didn't stop the face from reappearing every once in a while. And it was always without warning or her doing anything that would bring it about.

Each time the menacing thing showed itself in different places, she would feel sick and like a pit in her stomach. I don't know anything about anti-seizure medication or anti-convulsin. What is it? Anti-convulsant medication, but makes you wonder, like, because the fact that that doctor, like, now we know he prescribed it, it makes you wonder if she was even on anything previously. And now if she suddenly is, could that be like a potential side effect? That's what I'm wondering. I'm like, I'm looking at him now because it's.

need to see. Yeah. It's a very rare side effect, but it can't happen. Okay. Like hallucinations. Yeah. So it very well could have been just she was one of the rare people who got this. Because I mean, she already has a rare case to begin with, it sounds like. Yeah, that's the thing. So, and she said every time she saw the faces, it looked like it, or the face, it would look like it, it felt like it wanted something from her. Oh. That would scare the shit out of me. Yeah. One afternoon, not long before leaving the sanatorium, the face appeared again, and this time it was accompanied by a terrifying thought. She said she wondered to herself, what if that monstrous shape were really in me? Oh, yeah. Now, after being discharged on August 29th, 1970, she returned home, but the family immediately noticed that something was different.

Yeah. She was moody, she was irritable, more withdrawn than she had ever been. When she went to the doctor for a follow-up a few weeks later, she told Dr. von Holler, that she had been experiencing some dizziness, but she did not say anything about the face that she was seeing. Well, she was probably worried about sounding, like, silly. Yeah, that's the thing. And she really didn't say anything about the depression,

having gotten worse since the last visit, so she wasn't giving the full picture. Returning to school that fall proved to be also something of a disappointment. Annalise told a friend, I thought I was going to be happy going back to school. Now I'm worried. Oh. She had always been seen.

school is kind of like a happy place. Like she had fun in school. But now that she was at least a year behind her peers, she felt like there was no way she could catch up. And then since she'd been at the sanatorium, there was several new additions to her social circle. And she kind of felt out of place like she was behind everyone. And she's already spent so much time feeling that way at the sanatorium.

And now she's home feeling that way. That's also just a fucking tough age to be a girl in general. It's a mind fuck too. Oh, yeah. That don't really get you. Social situations like that. Her friend Karen Gora said she was quiet and serious, a loner if not an outsider, introverted and dreamy.

Her friend Maria said after her illness, Annalise was changed. She was quiet and withdrew from her friends. I also noted that she kept wanting to carry on mostly religious conversations. Eventually, the new girls in her friend group began labeling her as, quote, a religious nut. Okay. That's not really a nice thing to call someone. That's not great. Now, by the end of the first semester, Annalise's sullen and withdrawn emotional state had become obvious to pretty much everyone around her. Once a really great student with a promising future, that first year back at school, she was just getting like average grades. She wasn't like tanking, but she wasn't doing what she was, you know, what her promise was. Acting on orders from the doctors at the sanatorium, and Elise's mother took her to a follow-up appointment with a lung specialist where she was. She again failed to mention her declining mental health and hallucinations, telling the doctor she was

fine. That said, during the exam, the doctor had some concerns about Annalisa's circulation and wrote up a referral for yet another specialist. Oh, man. A doctor Pachauser nearby Miltonberg. The mere mention of another new doctor was more than she can handle at the time. She said to her mother, all I ever do is sit around in doctor's offices. I wish I could be rid of the lot of them and just live like other.

girls. Yeah, it's depressing. It like breaks my heart. Now, during the 1970s, the medical field's understanding of seizures was definitely undergoing a significant re-evaluation. Once, it was believed to be the product of mental illness or some other external thing. By the time Annalise began seeing specialists for her condition, the general consensus was that seizures were a neurological condition and were treated by a neurologist. So this wasn't the time where they were like, you got demons in you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But when it came to Annalise, it seemed like every doctor she saw, regardless of their specialty, was more interested in her seizures than they were the problem she had gone to them to have treated. Like they just kept referring back to a seizure.

Yeah. Dr. Packhouser, for example, dismissed the concerns about her circulation. And she was sent him for that. Yeah. And instead wrote a letter to the family physician, Dr. Vote, in which he overrepresented the numbers of seizures that she had that year. Why would you do that? There was only two that she had technically had. And he over-labeled their severity.

He labeled them apoplectic, which is like very violent. Yeah. Now, as is sometimes the case in situations like this, the tragic outcome is usually the result of multiple failures. Oh, yeah. We've seen that happen how many times? Both institutional, social, familiar, familial, and just like poor communication. Yep. Whether it's intentional or not.

Like, that's the thing. It's, I'm not saying everybody had this, like, malintent here. No. It's just things are starting to spiral a little bit. It's like a bad game of telephone. Exactly. Now, Annalise had several health problems, which may have exacerbated one another, but they weren't necessarily related.

So it's like, you've got to treat these things how they come. And in some cases, the problems didn't mention, like, the depression, that she didn't mention, excuse me, like the depression and the, you know, the hallucinations. they were at times far more concerning than the physical ailments, but she wasn't saying anything. I would think the hallucinations would be the biggest thing. And I mean, I think maybe she wasn't saying it because mental health at that time also wasn't taken as seriously as it is today. But it's more, but it's also possible that if she did mention it, that they might have been more interested in the neurological side. Right.

You know. But then you have to think, too, like, she. is being treated at a time where you just said, like, it's just the belief of seizures is just starting to switch over. That's the thing. So she already knows about the stigma beforehand. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's the thing.

It's like so. She doesn't want to be seen as like losing her mind. Exactly. Yeah. Now, when Dr. Vote received the letter from Packhouser urging him to refer her to another neurologist, the doctor dismissed the recommendation, assuming it wasn't necessary. And instead, he prescribed another anti-tops. convulsant medication. Oh, man. The drug may have helped to prevent any new seizures, but it didn't do a

lot to help her growing despondency, which was growing worse by the day. And if it's a stronger medication, which I'm assuming here, but I would think it is because then that previous doctor had like over, you know, overdone the amount that she was having in the prescription. It's like, is that then just making, like exacerbating everything? Yeah. That's the thing. She, Annalise told a young doctor at the Institute for Psychopathy during an evaluation in the fall of 1973. In the last years of school, 1972 and 1973, I just didn't care beans about anything anymore. Sometimes I don't care beans about things. Honestly, I was like, no truer words sometimes.

I've never heard that and I love it. No, despite having graduated and been accepted to college, Annalise found that she was apathetic about everything. To take a step back and to realize everything she was going through the fact that she got She, graduated and got accepted is huge. Yeah. Like, good for her. Well, and what she's experiencing and what she's describing, like, just, like, the whole, like, I just feel apathetic. Yeah. And I just didn't care. Mm-hmm. It's so, like, relatable to a lot of people, like, especially, and we know a lot more now about what those feelings mean. Depression. And like, like she said later, I was able to perceive, but not to experience. Oh. That's depression.

Absolutely. Like, that's deep depression. And now we know. so much more about it to be able to handle it. And you just want to put her in a time machine and bring her here and be like, we'll take care of you, babe. And obviously she was depressed. Not that we're really killing it in mental health now. I'm just saying we know a lot more. Yeah, we're doing better than we were back then, I think. Now, by the fall of 1973, her anxiety had become almost crippling. Yet she continued to insist to everyone around her that she was fine. She was trying to blend in. Like, go through. Despite her insistence, though, her mother knew something was wrong. She's always down.

She said, how about all those times when all of a sudden you become stiff or when you no longer know where you are? And her mother's comment about stiffness and disorientation indicated that regardless of what she said to her doctors or her family, she was still experiencing seizures. And they were happening clearly with increased frequency for her mother to bring it up like that. Yeah. But that was just the beginning of her ordeal. And the worst was definitely yet to come. Now, through the later part of 1972 and into 73, Annalise saw several more specialists, but little came out of the evaluations. In September 1972, she saw Dr. Luffy, the neurologist again, who performed an EEG, because remember he had wanted to do that again, but found nothing and ultimately increased her anti-convulsant medication. Why would you do that if you haven't found anything?

There was also an ear, nose and throat specialist, a pulmonologist, psychotherapists, and psychiatrists, and several more visits to Dr. Vote. Okay. Yet in all those appointments, Annalise gave little more information than necessary and often omitted important details altogether. She probably just wanted to get the fuck out of there. For instance, according to Goodman, who's in the show notes, Annalise saw Dr. Luffy several times during that period of her life, and she never once mentioned the fact that the medication he had prescribed seemed to be making her some sort of. symptoms worse. Okay. She also didn't tell any of them that she started smelling a horrid stench not perceived by others. Oh. And we'll get to that. That's interesting. Now in the spring of 73, things continued changing for the worst in the Michelle house. One afternoon,

Annalise told her mother that she had been hearing strange knocking noises in her rum at night that she couldn't explain. Her mother was like, okay, you know, you must have been dreaming. That's your first thought, you know? Yeah. When Annalise persisted, her mother sent her to see Dr. Vote, saying, if you did not dream it, maybe there's something wrong with your ears. Okay. When Dr. Vote couldn't find anything wrong with her ears, he referred her to a specialist. Oh, man. But he, too, couldn't find any problems with her ears.

She already saw an E&T. Yeah. In the days that followed, her parents began speaking to one another in private about their concerns. The doctors thought Annalise had epilepsy, and her mother said, so maybe it had something to do with that. Okay. That seemed reasonable to Yosef, but he added, she's a bit off her rocker. That's all.

Oh, that's a quote. That's sad. Yeah. The thing was, it wasn't just Annalise who heard the knocking in the bedroom at night. Oh. It started with Annalise. But a few nights later, the other girls started hearing the noises, too. Her mother worried that if there wasn't a rational explanation for the noises,

it could be something supernatural. Okay. But Yosef wasn't willing to entertain that thought. Yeah. He told his wife, Annalise is sick. And as to her sister, well, young girls are sometimes hysterical. Everybody knows that. Yose.

Yose. Yose. No wonder, Annalise didn't want to talk about her symptoms too extensively. It's giving, no. It wasn't just the noises that had Annalise concerned enough to tell her parents. Eventually, she started telling them about the faces, finally, because they were still happening. She was still seeing them. Before, when she had seen the frotson once or twice a year, it was easy to be.

dismiss that as a symptom of maybe the medication she was taking or something else. And that was like she really only saw them when she thought she was going to maybe have one of those seizure-like experiences she was thinking. But now she wasn't just seeing them during that stuff. Okay. Like at the sanatorium, she would see them frequently. But like home, it felt like it was always related to some kind of thing. But now she said she saw them when she did normal tasks, like making her bed, playing the piano,

reading a book. Okay. And now she said the voices spoke to her. That just gave me chills down my neck. Yeah. Or the faces spoke to her in low menacing voices. No, it also just got darker in here. Did you notice that?

It did get darker in the lights off in the sun. I think it's just a cloud, but that was really crazy timing. Like, I think it's just a cloud, but it's scary. Yes, I don't like it. And they would tell her she was damned and we'll go to hell forever. Oh, this is so spooky. But they would say it like, you are damned and we're. go to hell forever.

Except they didn't smile at her. Like, you just smiled at me. Maybe they did. That would be menacing. You weren't smiling as, oh, that's a scary smile. Don't do that. All right, stop it. Now, the family may have lived in a very rural environment, but it was still the 1970s. And devout religiosity, notwithstanding, there were, they were pretty modern people.

Devalued religiosity. Their daughter had spent most of her life battling one ill. after another, which would definitely take an emotional and psychological toll on someone that young. As far as Yosef was concerned, the hallucinations and increased talk of devils and demons was nothing more than another manifestation of her illness. Okay. And once she got over that, it would all be over, which I can understand why he thought that way. Yeah, and also, like, sometimes it's like, when people are, like, really struggling and it's

unexplicable. Yeah. The, the, like, logical person just wants to logic their way through it. And that's almost like a coping mechanism. Exactly. You know what I mean? So I think it was just like, we're going to be fine. We're going to get through this and then it'll all be over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Annalise's mother accepted her husband's explanation, but privately, she couldn't help but believe there was something more sinister happening in the house. Now, the changes to Annalise's personality weren't just noticed by family. At 1973, her old friend group from school began noticing that she was becoming very more sullen and more depressed. The more she pulled away from her old friends, the closer she became with a new social group,

who some described as, quote, religious zealots. Oh. Similarly. Is a zealot a bad thing? Zellet is your leg over, the top. Oh, okay. Zellet tree is not something you want to be aligned with. Yeah.

Awesome. Similarly, in discussions with her psychiatrist, she routinely made concerning statements like, quote, someone else is manipulating me. And my will is not my own. It wasn't just the voices that, you know, it wasn't just that the voices Annalise heard were telling her she was damned. It was also that she was beginning to believe it now. I mean, wouldn't you?

Yeah, I guess. Now, in 1973, her relationship with religion suddenly had a dramatic transformation. So again, she was devoutly, again, yes. Because, like, she was devoutly religious growing up. And then she got super. devout and now it's going to change again. Now, again, once as devoutly Catholic

as any other member in her family and then zealotry coming into the situation, she now couldn't seem to tolerate being in proximity to religious icons for more than a few minutes. What? In one incident, Annalisa's mother claimed,

quote, I happened to walk through the living room and saw Annalise looking at the mother of God statue. Only it wasn't whether respect her adoration. Her face was like a terrible mask full of hatred. Her eyes turned black, jet black. And her slender hands, they twitched and seemed to turn into thick paws like claws. It's weird that the girls at the sanatorium said that and that the mom did. Yeah. And that those are two completely different accounts. Two completely different accounts. Like years apart. That is really creepy. That is weird. Because I don't know how to, I don't know how to rationalize that. Yeah.

years later, the family would recognize this as one of the spells that often came over, Annalise, like the one she experienced at the sanatorium. However, the spells no longer left her with that, like, feeling of euphoria or calm. Doesn't seem like it. It was a feeling of dread. Yeah. In a 1976 recorded conversation with Father Renz, Annalise described the experiences in some detail.

This is what she said. Oh, Herr Pater, you cannot imagine that most awful dread. It is a terror that goes through all my limbs and settles there. It is a dread that makes you think you are right there in the middle of hell. You are totally utterly distorted. You can call all you want for help to the mother of God, maybe, but they are all deaf. Oh. Isn't that debilitatingly horp? Yeah. It sounds like the sunken place. It sounds like the worst kind of situation I can imagine. Yeah. By that summer, her mental health had continued to decline while her religious paranoia grew. Not only had she become convinced of her own

damnation, but she had also come to believe the world was going to end. Oh, honey, I've been there. And unlike years earlier, when she carried the burden of her thoughts silently, she was now more than happy to discuss them with others, and by then the hallucinations had become way more vivid and way more detailed. She believed she had personal visions of the future, and she communed with the Virgin Mary. To clarify, I have not been there. Yeah, you have been scared of the end of the world, and I did go to therapy about it.

The Virgin Mary never had that. She also began likening herself to Barbara Wagand, a 19th century Catholic prophetess, who also claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary. By the fall of 73, Annalise's parents finally convinced her to return to see the neurologist, Dr. Luffy, and to tell him everything. She told the doctor, I often see Frotson. The devil is in me. I am all empty inside. Years later during the trial,

Dr. Luffy testified about this appointment with Annalise, and he said she could not get her mind off these things. She had no power of decision and everything was empty in her. But while thoughts of damnation in the end of the world seemed to be consuming her every waking moment, she seemed unable to provide a lot of detail about the hallucinations or what she believed to be visions. Okay. She was unable to describe the Frotson with a lot of detail, other than to say they were ghastly. And when asked how she knew it was the devil, Annalise, quote, remained silent, which is almost scarier.

Coming across a person suffering like this, like to be the doctor on the other end or like the mother or the father or the sister, this would fuck you up. Yeah. This fucks me up just hearing it right now. I can't imagine being in the presence of somebody experiencing this. It would be horrifying. That's a night. It's not even a nightmare.

It's worse. And for them to be like, how do you know it's the devil? And she just stares at you? I would pee my fucking pants. That would ruin me. Now, throughout the investigation that occurred in the late 1970s, many details about her medical treatment would be fiercely debated. Among them was Dr. Luffy's reaction to Annalise's description of her symptoms.

Her parents would later insist it was Luffy who said they should take Annalise to see a priest. But Luffy had strenuously and repeatedly denied those allegations. I don't see a doctor. Yeah. Dr. Luffy said, when I have a patient whom I cannot handle, I always refer that patient to a clinic and not to a priest. Yeah, yeah.

Also, Dr. Luffy didn't recall any talk of demonic possession at this time, though he did recall Annalise feeling as though, quote, she was being molested by satanic beings. Oh. Regardless of who said what, the outcome remained the same. Dr. Luffy felt Annalisa's symptoms were a matter for psychiatrists and referred her to clinics.

Yeah. Yeah. In the fall of 73, the same time, Annalise finally realized a dream she'd had since childhood when she enrolled in college and started studying to become a teacher while dealing with all of this. What? Yeah. While everyone thought the start of her college career, maybe this was going to lift her spirits. This is what she's dreamed of. Yeah. They were surprised to find she was remarkably indifferent in all of her courses. The pills Dr. Luthey gave her did little, if anything, to control her psychiatric symptoms. And the thought of having a hallucination during a class or a lecture increased her anxiety by tenfold. Oh, I can't imagine.

It was during this time that Annalise's mother saw an opening to bring up the priest again. Okay. She said if Dr. Luffy's medicine is all that useless, maybe we could talk to her priest about those. Now, for reasons that are like still kind of unclear, it seems that Annalise and her mother would be become very fixated on locating a Jesuit priest. Okay. Under the belief that the doctor had directed them specifically to a Jesuit. Okay.

There's no church doctrine or other directive that specifically identifies the Jesuit order as being more knowledgeable in the matters of, like, demons and demonic possessions. Yeah. But Jesuit priests play a prominent role in the exorcist. So they had maybe seen the movie? which was released just two years earlier. The novel was wildly successful and led to the equally successful film, obviously, in 1973.

Yeah. Both the novel and the film would have a significant influence on how people all over the world understood the right of exorcism, a concept that up until this point had been pretty phased out of church practice. Yeah. Although it's merely speculation, the family's insistence on finding a Jesuit priest could be explained by the influence of William Peter Blattie's novel.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is interesting timing is all. I'm just looking into it and I guess, because you said they're Catholic, right? Yeah. So a Jesuit priest is a type of Catholic priest and it says they answer to their religious superior and take a special vow of obedience directly to the Pope for worldwide missions. Interesting. Just to give like a little more clarity, but yeah.

I don't know if they just seem like like top boss. Yeah, like it seems like it's like in their own religion. So I guess that, but it's like they're a little bit more than like like your, your typical Catholic priest, I guess. They're more than your average Catholic. They're like priests worldwide. Like Mr. Worldwide. That's their mission.

That makes sense. Probably just defended a lot of people. That makes sense. We're just trying to get through it. I don't know. There's a lot going on. I'm just trying to understand. There's a lot going on that we have no idea what's going on.

Simply trying to understand. Now, whatever the reasoning may be, they did manage to track down a Jesuit priest through one of the retired priests in their church. Hell yeah. That priest was Father Ernest Alt, Alt. And he had already been given some background on the family. So when they finally sat down, he knew what to expect. Okay.

Although he had been told of the various disturbing experiences, Father Alts' main impression was that Annalise was a relatively normal, if shy, and withdrawn young woman. Okay. He later said there was nothing that I could see that would indicate possession. At the conclusion of the conversation, I advised the family to take their daughter to a physician and have her examined. Wow. Good for him. Yeah. Father Alts' recommendation was not what Annalise or her mother wanted to hear.

Because they already went to a bunch of doctors. By that point, Annalise, again, had been seen by an endless stream of doctors from. general practitioners and psychiatrists to neurologists, even ear, nose and throat, you know, specialists. None of them had been able to help. Annalise's mother was open to the possibility that a new specialist might know something the others didn't, but Annalise remained convinced that only a Jesuit priest would do. Okay. Now, Annalise might have felt like she was running out of options, but fortunately for her,

one of the parishioners at their church had another idea. Thea Hine had helped Annalise and her mother find Father Alt. And as one of the biggest gossips in the village, she was invested in Annalise's story and determined to help. Absolutely iconic. After doing some research on her own, Thea located Father, Father, Father. Father Adolf Rodowick, which is an unfortunate name. Yeah. He was a priest in Frankfurt.

Okay. Father Rodewick was not only a Jesuit, but he was also something of an expert on Satan in demonic possession. I would think that a priest would be an expert. Well, he had written several books on the topic. Ah. So Thea reached out to the priest on Annalise's behalf and explained what was happening and how they were certain that exorcism was the only possible solution. Of course. And the priest wrote back on the basis of that letter, I then answered that I did see some indication in what she had written that the girl was possessed.

However, considering the great distance between Frankfurt and Klingenberg and my advanced age, I could not concern myself with the matter. Sir. That's... Too far. Won't go. Too far. Much old can't go. Sorry.

Possessed. Too far. Much old. Sorry. Sorry possessed. What the fuck? That's the shorthand version of that letter. Too long.

Too far. Too far. Much old. Sorry possessed. Like, brother. Father. Father. Fasha.

I'm like, aren't you supposed to like help my neighbor? Because I guess they're not your neighbor. They're not your nearest neighbor. Yeah, I guess. Damn. Did he have any advice? He did.

You know what he did? Did he offer literally any? So he did do it. TLDR, too far much old. Sorry, they're possessed. But he did refer her to Father Herman, a retired priest in Oshenkenberg. Which they'd already been.

into for a doctor, I recall. While Annalise's peers and family believed she was suffering from some sort of demonic infestation, doctors and other specialists who she sought out during this period clearly did not agree with this whole treatment plan that was going on. Like Dr. Luffy,

most listened to Annalisa's description of the events she was experiencing and thought she was having a mental health crisis. She described feeling alienated from her own free will and as though she was not making her own decisions. At one point, she said, I'm not my own ego anymore, which is like, it's really, that's deep. Yeah. Her descriptions of the hideous faces

she saw were similarly vague, like I said, and the messages were all just like, you're damn to hell. Yeah. But she interpreted them of having some kind of like malevolent source. But again, she was never quite able to articulate why that was and based her descriptions, based on her descriptions, there was nothing outwardly evil about them. It was just like a face that was like. felt malicious. That felt malicious, yeah. Even the priests and religious figures during this time that they kept seeking out, obviously, like he was completely, like, apathetic to the whole thing. They seemed entirely unconvinced that she was possessed. Father Herman, who they referred to, said, we usually talked about her problems, her problem for half an hour or two an hour.

And he saw Annalise about 10 times between the fall of 73 and the summer of 75. Oh, wow. And although he had no reason to disbelieve what she told him or the reports of Annalise's poor reactions to religious iconography during that time, he said he never saw any of the behaviors that Annalise and her parents described. He never saw them. Okay. He said, these symptoms never occurred when we were together.

Although, quite frankly, I said the rosary with her. During such instances, she always behaved calmly and with piety and showed no such negative behavior. Which is interesting because this all started with her saying the rosary and having that terrifying experience. And that's religious iconography of the highest order. So it's like you're literally praying with religious iconography and not having a negative reaction to it. Yeah. So like what's that? After all that time with Annalise, he concluded her problems were a matter for doctors, not priests. He said, I suggested that she go to a neurologist. Well, at least the doctors want to help. But the priests, like, I'm not saying they don't want to help, but I don't think they know

how to. I think they're acknowledging that this is not their expertise. Yeah. Like, and which is... Just neurological. Which is wild, because usually priests are like, let's go with an exorcist. We've told a lot of American stories, maybe. Yeah. Maybe German priests are just like,

I can't do this. This is doctor time. That's cray cray. Now, this is doctor. This is doctor time. Is it you seen scrubs? No, a significant problem in Annalise's case is one of reporting. That is Annalise and her mother frequently reported experiencing or witnessing supposedly supernatural symptoms.

But those symptoms were typically not evident when she was in the presence of doctors or specialists. There were, of course, the hideous faces she saw, the voices she heard, but no one else ever heard or saw those. So it's like, it's hard. That's true. There was also, like you just said, there was the knocking, which again, her sisters claimed to have heard, but that could also just not be verified.

Well, it could also, like, I hate to say it, but it could be confirmation bias. Exactly. And it's like... They probably feel very badly for her sister. A feedback, Luke can happen in a room. So it's like, it can definitely happen. And she's the oldest, right? Yeah.

Yeah. So it's like, and in fact, we're not for one particular symptom. It's likely the case would have been nothing more than that of, unfortunately, this poor young woman, like, rapidly kind of like decompensating at the time. Yeah. But years earlier... And this is where the smell will come back. Okay, I was wondering when that was going to come back.

Annalise had occasionally experienced a type of hallucination known as phantasmia. Okay. An olfactory hallucination in which one smells something that isn't there. Like her other hallucinations, she was never able to describe the smell with any detail other than to say it was foul and rotten. It's like when I smelled hot dogs up here on a raw activity. But I swear, somebody fucking brought hot dogs into that theater. She was absolutely convinced. And I believed her.

I was believed by a few. Yeah, I was going to call a Jesuit priest, but I decided to just let it go. Thanks. Yeah. Now, in time, though, others started to smell the odor when they were in Annalise's presence. Once on a church trip, Thea Hines said Annalise, quote, exuded a stench like Frow Hein had never smelled before. Like fecal matter or something burning? Everyone in the bus could smell it.

I would like to state that those are two very different things. Fecal matter or something burning. Unless it's a lot different than something burning. Yeah, that's true. I guess that's a bit big. You know, meat burning or something like that. Similarly, when Father Herman interviewed Annalise's parents, her mother described, quote, a stench of dung or of something burning in the room where

Annalise was. But Herman himself never smelled anything unusual. And we need to remember that Thaya, Thayer, one of the other. very desperately to help them. Yeah. With one priest after another, having come away from interviews with Annalise, unconvinced of any supernatural basis for the problems, the case should have ended there probably.

Yeah. And were it not for one young priest, it probably would have. You're going to end there, are you? And we're going to end there for part one. On your fucking face. But I need you to know that part two is absolutely bonkers. Part one was absolutely bonkers. And it's a sad case.

It's just tragic. It really is. police investigations and trials. So I'm really confused about where this all goes. It's very, very sad. It's just a lot. Any exorcism case gets gnarly very quick. Yeah.

It starts out being like, oh my God. That's so crazy. And, you know, seeing faces and all that. And then it very quickly degrades into like, what the fuck am I listening to? So just please be prepared for that episode two because it's not going to be. It's not going to be the too far much old, sorry, possessed. We're not going to be able to have as much. Yeah, so hold on to that one.

Okay. Well, that was interesting. Yeah. I'm very excited for part two. It's going to be crazy. And I think now we should maybe get to the fun fact. Let's go. This segment is brought to you by State Farm.

I have the most fun fact for you that I think will ever fun fact. on this show. I'm really excited. Okay. So this is, I'm going to start off. This is from the Guinness World Records website. Okay. The average lifespan of a goldfish is about 10 to 15 years. Some varieties live, you know, like into their 30s when they're properly cared for. Hell yeah. But one male goldfish named Tisch. Tish. Live to be 43 years old. Tish. Live to be 43 years old. Tish, what the heck? Isn't that crazy? Tish. The oldest goldfish ever.

Dang, 43 years with a pet. 43 years. He was born in 19, which I wonder, I wonder how they know, like, exactly when he was born. I know. But he was said to be born in 1956, and he lived until 1999. That's bonkers. He was totally Rufus, bro. He was totally Rufus.

He lived in the UK, North Yorkshire, I believe. And a seven-year-old won him at a fair with his family. And then Peter, Peter the little kid, like won him at the fair. Peter. And then he grew up with him, his whole life, Peter. Yeah, Tish and Peter. You know, not his whole life, but all of his childhood. Yeah.

All of Peter's childhood, Tish was there. And then when he, when Peter got married and, you know, moved out, his mom Hilda just took over care for Tish. Oh my God. So he didn't take Tish with him? No. Well, Tish was like, he had lived in the same house for her. It probably would have been stressful. Tish was specific too. Oh, good for Tish. Apparently, he only liked it. He really liked quiet areas. Me too.

Noisy areas stressed him out. Same Tish. We lived in a hallway. Good for him. Yeah. And honestly, in your 40s, you should be able to get that. You want quiet. You get it. I think so, too. Tell people what you want, Tish. Hilda told the Daily Express, he has a healthy diet and has always enjoyed a peaceful place to live. I love that they just, like, respected Tish's wishes as well. Yeah. Like, they were like, what? you need to. That's probably why he lived so long. Probably. Also, one time, like 10 years before he actually did pass away, he almost died. He leapt out of his bowl and nobody was home. But then Hilda, the mom of Peter, came home, like a short time after that. And she found him and she plopped him back in the water. And he just started swimming like, everything was fine. Dang. I wonder if he was like, can't do it anymore. If he was like, I've been around in a long time. You know what, though? Like, would he

know because goldfish have really short memories. I'm they supposed to have like really it's like 10 seconds. I think it literally is like 10 seconds. Is that real or is that how short? Let's fact check during the fact gold segment memory. I think it is pretty short. Oh. Yeah, that's

that's fake. I have a feeling that was fake. Not me lying during the fun fact segment. Yeah, they um, oh weeks, months, even years. They have a memory. Oh, why are we selling them short? And live science says, What's baffling is that it's the same wherever you go in the world, this myth. In some places, it's like two seconds. It's 10. It's always really short. That's funny. Yeah. I wonder if that's

like from like literature or something that we all just like called. Yeah. Somebody just made it up. There's got to be something about Britain though because before Tish, the oldest goldfish was another British goldfish and his name was Fred and he lived to be 40 years old. Look at him. So Tish only had what, three years on him. Oh my God. And he like, it's silvery. Oh yeah, that was the other thing when he got older. His scales, they started to turn silver. My God, he had like, he's like a silver fox. He's a silver fish. He's a silver fish. He's a beautiful. I love that. So I think that's one of the most fun facts we're told. I really like that one. I think we needed that. I know Tish is dead, but long live Tish. Long live the memory of Tish. Yeah, long live

fish like Tish. Fish like Tish. That would be a great children's book and it will be ours. Don't take it. Yeah. Thank you again. our sponsor State Farm for sponsoring this segment. All right. Well, thank you State Farm for sponsoring our fun fact segment. And weirdos, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't try to make your goldfish live 44 years so that you can get into the Guinness Book of World Records. It's true. Bye. Bye.