Morbid - The Lawson Family Murders

Episode Date: December 5, 2018

It is Christmas day in 1929 and Charles Lawson is feeling some type of way. Unintentional poetry aside, the mystery of one man's actions that left his entire family brutally butchered, save for his eldest son who he intentionally sent away from the scene before the carnage, has fascinated and horrified true crime fans for decades. Why did Charles Lawson annihilate his family on Christmas morning? Why did he sent Arthur away before the rampage? Why did Marie put raisins on the damn cake? The questions and the brutality are overflowing in this case, so join us while we speculate wildly.   Sources:  The Meaning of Our Tears: The True Story of the Lawson Family Murders of Christmas Day 1929 by Trudy J. Smith https://www.news.com.au/news/secret-behind-photo-in-lawson-family-christmas-day-massacre-when-seven-people-died/news-story/080cd6dcee54a210d70098ca45dc3851 Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is more bad. It is. Woo, woo, who, who, who, who, who, who, who. I am. Day season. Happy morning to do. I said mall a days. Well, it kind of is malays. People are at the mall. A lot. I was at the mall yesterday and I wanted to murder everybody. I haven't been to the mall in so long and I like that. I'm going to be gone. I decided that I'm going to my Christmas shopping online. That's where I do all my Christmas shopping. Yeah, I'm all about online. I got, for Monday is where it's at. I got a huge dent done in my Christmas shopping. Yeah,

you really did. Because I'm an adult this year and I'm not going to do what I did last year and do all my shopping the day before Christmas Eve. Yeah, that's no good. It was a fucking nightmare. No, it's awful. And I feel like I always want to do it earlier and earlier. Yeah. But it never happens. I wish that I was one of those people that so many clients be like, oh, I, I just, I just, I just, like pick things up throughout the year. Yeah. Like yeah, fuck you, Cheryl. Literally like, come on, man. Like, no. But I bet they'd actually do. Because if I do pick things up, I end up giving them to the

people early because I get excited and I can't hold on to it. Like, I'm an awful gift giver that way. I know. I know a lot of people like that. So I don't think there hasn't been too many. True crimey things happening this week. Nothing that has really popped out at me. No, not yet. I think... It's a blessed time. It is a blessed time. Bless up.

I think I saw something on, John and I were watching TV last night and we saw a Netflix movie that's coming out because you know how it's weird that Netflix is having movies now with like Sandra Bullock in them? Like going straight to Netflix. It's just weird. So this one has Sandra Bullock in it. I think it's called Birdbox. I'm pretty sure.

It sounds weird. That's cool. But the whole thing is like very apocalyptic. Oh. But not in that way. It's in a different way. All right. It's like these Sandra Bullock.

Billick and her two kids have to get to the sanctuary because these, like, evil demons that take the form of your greatest fear are following them. Oh. And they only take the form of your greatest fear if you look at them, so they have to stay blindfolded and get to the sanctuary without looking. That kind of sounds like a quiet place. Kind of. I like the whole, like, it takes the form of your greatest fear. I think that's definitely... I don't like that. Well, I don't want that. But this led us, John and I into a discussion about what would, what form? would it take for you? And of course, both of us said it would, which John was adorable, he said it would take the form

of me leaving. Oh. And then he said there was something happening to the girls. I cry. And I was like, actually, that's exactly the same thing. And then we were like, okay, let's get rid of that one and do like a different one. Yeah. Because that's an obvious thing.

And I was like, what would mine be? I was like, I don't know. And he said the greatest dancer. And it was so on point. He said it would take the form of an empty pint of Ben and Jerry's ice cream that would just follow me and every once in a while it would come to me and be like, I'm full, oh, nope, I'm not. And when he said it, I was like, oh my God, you are correct.

And he said either that or an empty sleeve of cookies or like one that has like a half cookie on there. That's hilarious. I don't know what mine would be. Well, I know Johns would be someone standing there with either takeout menus and asking him to pick a place to eat. Oh, God. Or they're just just me standing there saying, what do you want for dinner?

Yep. That's his greatest fear is having to decide what food to eat. I think that's everybody's biggest fear. But yours would probably be a declined credit card. Or it would be like somebody with like shavers like ready to shave your head. Oh fuck that. I think that would be. Yeah. H&M closing. That would be it. But if they brought up like an interesting conversation. Yeah. Oh, I think one of mine would just be like a bunch of clients telling me that I gave them shitty haircuts. Yes. That would be a good one. That would definitely be for you.

I have a lot. I don't want to be featured in this movie. We'll do a post and you guys can comment what yours would be. Yeah. Because that's an... Because it really was such a fun conversation to have because we just got ridiculous about it. But it makes you think. It does.

I want to hear what other people would say. Yeah, I'm dying to know. So we'll definitely post that on the Instagram because that's an interesting one. I'll do it at the very end of this episode. Woo. So while you're listening to this, you'll have already known that. I did it. Because you'll have already answered. I did it. I know. I wish you could see me pointing everywhere. I did it. Yeah, I think that's really it though. So this week, we have some new patrons. We do. Without further ado, thank you so much to James Turner, who is in the weirdos

category. Welcome, James. Do you know who that is? James Turner? Yeah, I do not. I thought it was what your friends because no i hope not at least because i don't know who they are well you're our friend now james yeah now you're our friend thank you so much um our next one is in the jagged little bitch category so thank you so much to jordan pro doll i believe is how you say it jordan you are so jagged and you're such a little bitch we love you jordan a jagged little bitch and then also this week we have two custom patriots. So they're in a category all on their own. Fancy.

We have Courtney C. Courtney C. Thanks. Thanks, girl. You're the best. You are the best. You are the chesticles. Woo!

Courtney C. Chesticles. That's what the C stands for. Boom. Courtney chestacles. And then we have Ashley Justin, and she has my favorite way of spelling Ashley. Ashley. Ash, L-E. You have a great name.

Yeah, you do. I always wanted my name to be spelled like that. you? Or when I was little, I wanted it to be spelled ASH-L-I-E. Ah. Which is trendy. Trendy. If you ask mine. So thanks, everybody. Thanks, guys. You guys rock some serious socks. You rock some holiday socks.

I hope you're all rocking holiday socks. Yeah, rock holiday socks, guys. But you guys are amazing. And I think I've been posting little sneaky peekies of all our designs that Vasco Vaz. He's coming out with. And I'm debating whether I'm going to put out my own to let you guys see it ahead of time. I might just surprise you guys with it. Oh, I like that idea too. I don't know.

Big things are happening. 2019 is going to be morbid takeover. We're going to take over the world, essentially. Here we go. Bye. We're going to be like a new website's coming up. We're running for president. Yeah.

Just kidding. Get on this. Both of us. Both of us. I think that would be great. That'd be fucking. a lot to the table. Awesome. We bring a very well-rounded platform to the table.

But yeah, we're not doing that. But it's a nice thought. So, yeah. So thank you to the Patrions for aiding us and getting all this stuff going. Because without you guys, and we'd be shit, we'd be nothing. We'd be shit on the ground. We'd just be talking at a microphone

in an empty laundry room. For no fucking reason. And we, of course, we thank everybody for listening and supporting in any way. but financially is just kind of helping us get this stuff off the ground. Hey, we appreciate it. But yeah, I think we can just get on to our case this week. Let's dive into it.

I don't know if this one's going to be, I think, a little shorter than normal. I'm assuming it will be, but whenever I assume that it ends up being longer. And whenever we think it's going to be a long one, it ends up being shorter. So, I mean, I'm going to say short, but who knows, stick with us. We are kicking off our holiday season. It's a holiday takeover time. It's a holiday takeover with some Christmas murders. So today's murder, de jour.

Murder. Is the murder of? Of the entire Lawson family. Willshit. Well shit. So this is an oldie, but an oh-so goody. Not the entire family. No.

And that's an interesting part of this. So we're going to kick it right off. The Lawson's were a family of tobacco farmers. This was way back in the 1920s. Oh, and you were born? You know, when I was born, exactly, yeah. So not too long ago. It's really not that long ago.

It's really not. So the Lawsons were a big family. They were working class people. They weren't super awful poor, like to the point where they were having to, you know, like, eat dirt and stuff. But they were not at all wealthy. They were medium poor. They were definitely, like, lower class, but they were not, like, you know, really, really, really struggling. Right.

Just to put that out there. So this happened in Germantin, North Carolina. The father's name is Charles Lawson. Charles Lawson. Charles Lawson is going to be an important figure in this whole thing. Pretty fucking important. Important. Infamous, one might say.

He was born in 1886. which is after my house was built. Isn't that weird? When was your house built? 1860. Wow. I know. Spook, spook.

Spook is right. He was born in the town of Lawsonville. Nope. Just kidding. I was like, that's weird. Hold on. I just paused to double check, and he really was born in Lawsonville, so it didn't autocorrect.

Strange coincidence. I thought my document had auto-corrected in some weird way. But it didn't. He was born May 10th. 1886 in the town of Lawsonville, which was in Stokes County, North Carolina. He had grown up in a sharecropping family. Same. You know.

He grew up to marry Fanny Manring, I believe her last name is pronounced. In 1911, between, like, his younger life, there's not a lot known about that. I mean, it's hard because I was going to say, because like in 1880, there wasn't a whole lot of records that we can look back at. So I know that, you know, he grew up in like a farming family. This was kind of in his blood. He ended up marrying Fanny in 1911. The two of them

scraped together money to finally buy a ramshackle 200-year-old farmhouse close to his brother's farms. And they had only bought this two years before this massacre happened. Oh, wow. And yeah, and they bought him to be close to his family.

You know, his brothers were around there. So Fanny and Charles had eight children. Fuck that. It's a lot of children. No thanks. One might say too many. If you have eight children, God bless.

In fact, Charles might say too many. No pun intended. It's a pretty bad joke, but it's the truth. But um, now, these eight children included one named William, who was six years old, who died of pneumonia in 1920.

Unfortunately, this was a pretty common occurrence for kids to die before, I mean, even getting into teenage. That's good. Yeah, it was kind of common. Yeah, it was very, very common to not, especially in, like, more poor families. I mean, it makes sense. The other kids were Marie, who was 17, Arthur 16, Carrie 12, Maybel, 7, James 4, Raymond 2, and 4-month-old Mary Lou. At the time of the murders, Fannie and Charles had been married for 18 years. That's a long-ass time. That's a long-ass time. Like John and I have been together for what like 12 years that's a long ass time yeah so 18 that's a lot like you know each other

you're in it to win it you're at 18 yeah by all accounts this family was just like a pleasant working class family and in fact Charles was said to be really well respected by the community so this is a little different or this kind of reminds me of the solder family how like the father was well respected they were just like a chill family yeah It also reminds me. I was going to say it reminds me of it. It reminds me of it, but it's a different way.

Different circumstances. Exactly. Because, you know, the Hinterkifk dad was not, what was it, Andreas was not exactly well respected. But they do have similar attributes. Exactly. I was going to say, we're going to connect these dots later. Hinder Kifck dad and Lawson dad have a similar type. Yes, exactly.

If you will. They have one really. weird persuasion in common, we'll say. Stay tuned. So Charles wasn't like, you know, like overly, like extremely religious or any, there wasn't anything that popped out about him as being extreme. Okay. Because, you know, some, it's like, you can point to him be like, he was like kind of crazy.

Like they were a little extreme. No, they just were like super normal by all accounts. Unless you count having eight kids as extreme. That's utterly extreme. People back then had a lot of kids. They did. Because you didn't know how many you were going to end up with by the end of it. You just kept going.

You're like, hopefully three of these lives. Yeah. That's fucked. So they were just a typical working class family of the era. They were very typical of that era. Things changed, though, slightly after a weird little accident on the farm. According to M. Bruce Jones and Trudy J. Smith, who wrote a book about this case called White Christmas Bloody Christmas, which is really good. And it's really hard to find.

It's like a very, like, saw it after book. I don't have it. But I downloaded parts of it, but I want to find this copy because it's supposed to be a really good book. They believe that Lawson's problems actually started when he struck himself accidentally in the forehead with his mattock. Makes sense. Which is an axe, exactly like the one that was used in the Hedrakevich. Murders, that's kind of funny. He was doing work outside, and I think he literally just like slipped and it slammed into his forehead.

They said it was a pretty decent head wound. In the book, they say, quote, his wounds healed, but many people said that Lawson changed after the accident. His usual quick temper flaring more often and with greater intensity. So obviously, he already had a temper before this. Yeah, made it worse. And this clearly made it much worse. We'll get more into this later, that this could have had a little bit to do with it, but I really don't think so in the end. I don't think so either.

But it's just an interesting little side note, because as we know, head wounds tend to be an indicator. of not awesome behavior usually that's in childhood though I feel like it more matters well I was just thinking that too yeah I'm more madden in childhood because it's fully developed when you're his age exactly now interestingly enough the authors of this book

that I was just talking about are a father-daughter team which is kind of cute the father and Bruce Jones was eight years old and lived near this family at the time of the murders so he remembers a lot about it like he said he vividly remembers them and the way the crime scene, which we will get into later, became a tourist attraction. I know, that's fucked. Yeah. The daughter in this, the author of us, the daughter said,

quote, my father spoke about this murder case all my life. He recounted the story of the famous cake being baked in the cabin, which was left just as it was on the day of the murders. The cabin became a tourist attraction in the 1930s. The bloody pillows lying on the floor where Charlie had placed his battered victims were still left. When I was six, he took us up to the location. in hopes of seeing inside. When he retired in the mid-80s, he and his friends recalled the murders. Some of his friends had connections to people

who knew the murderer and his victims. So they have a lot. Like the two of them writing this book about the case is what you want. They're close to it. I mean, this guy grew up right around it. And in one of the things I read, he said that his mother,

he was always mad because his mother wouldn't let him go to this tourist attraction. The crime scene. Because he was eight years old, but his older sisters got to go and they all came back and like, told them about it and just pissed. Yeah.

So in 1929, two weeks before Christmas, Charles took his entire family to Winston-Salem about 13 miles away from where they lived. There, he bought them a bunch of fancy new clothes. He told them literally no matter what they wanted, they could have. Was this Christmas Day? No, this was two weeks before Christmas. Two weeks, okay.

Then he had his family sit for a family portrait. He said it was part of a, quote, Christmas surprise. So it would appear this fucker knew what he was going to do for weeks. Yikes. It was a huge deal for this working class family to, one, be buying a ton of new fancy clothes. Because I posted the photo on the Instagram that they took two weeks before they were murdered. And everybody's in really fancy get-up, you know what I mean?

They look rich. And that's a big deal for these people. And also, most people of their societal rank had never even had a photo taken of themselves. So this was a huge luxury. Wow. Like you didn't just go to a photographer's studio and have a portrait done. You weren't just popping out selfies on the ground. So this was already like, you know, eyebrow raising that he did this because it was seemingly

out of nowhere. Right. Now the photo is interesting itself when you look at it now. Especially his face. Yeah, there's a lot of ways that make it very interesting. No one is smiling. Everyone looks super pissed. extremely uncomfortable.

And they look uncomfortable to be there, but they also look uncomfortable with each other, a lot of them. Arthur and Marie are standing very far apart. Charles and Fanny. Fanny's holding the youngest Mary Louie. Fannie looks like the most pissed. She looks horrified. And her and Charles don't look like they even know each other.

And then there's people looking different direction. It's just very odd. Marie, in particular, the 16-year-old daughter, looks the most cold. and angry out of all of them. She's literally staring daggers straight into the camera lens. But those finger waves are on point. Well, I was just going to get into that.

Well, some of the other ones look a little softer and off to the side a bit. Like even Charles and Fannie look like a little, just more like off to the side. Marie also looks like a flapper. She does look like a flapper. She does not look like a farm girl. No.

Like, it just doesn't... She looks beautiful. Fanny looks like a farm girl. She does. Fanny looks like a farm girl. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying less glamorous, you know? Well, and wouldn't you think that they would be positioned differently?

Like, I would think that Charles and Fanny would be in the middle. And Arthur, excuse me, and Marie would be on either side of them. But instead, it's Marie and Charles in the middle. And it almost looks like they're the parents. Except Fanny looks old. Very odd. Very odd. And again, Marie looks beautiful.

and she kind of physically embodies the Roaring 20s look in this photo. She totally does. Like she's got the flapper hair, like the finger waves, the bob that was super cool then. She's got like a flapper kind of dress on like a cool girl dress from back then. It's got like the lace collar. She's got a necklace on. She just looks like a badass. I mean, Arthur looks pretty dope too.

He's got like a pretty dope suit on. He looks super dapper. It's just and also I think what points more to Marie is if you look at it, doesn't she look like she has more light on her. Yeah, she definitely does. Like, she just sticks out in that photo in like a lot of ways. And I think it's also just the fact that she's staring directly into that camera lens with this like stone

cold face. And then it's like we're looking at the photo right now and Fannie just looks miserable. Yeah, she's just like, fuck this. Why are we here? Charles almost has this weird little smirk on his face. He's definitely smirking. Yeah, but if you look at it, so is Arthur. He has a small smirk too. He's a

handsome dude. He is. Yeah. Um, so that, so that was a weird occurrence. That was the big major thing that happened before this tragedy occurred. Now, on December 25th, you may know that day as Christmas. You may not. Who knows? Either way, some of us know it as Christmas. 1929, 17-year-old Marie, uh, she woke up early to make a Christmas cake.

Um, she made two layers of cake. She was icing them, getting them ready for the festivities, because I think they were going to having, like, Christmas festivities on the farm, and then they were going to be going to their, like, uncles and aunts houses, because, again, they lived near family. Side note, she put fucking raisins on the cake. She did, but that was, like, a thing. That's like a thing, then. No, I know, but you. But it is gross. Fuck that.

That's not a cake. The oldest son Arthur, who was the 16-year-old. He wanted to go out hunting for rabbits that morning, because, again, they're farm folk. You know, like Christmas morning. We're going to wake up. We're going to shoot some rabbit. So he gets his shit ready. He's like, let's do this.

And then he's like, oh my God, I don't have any shotgun shells. I forgot. So he goes to his dad, Charles. And he's like, hey, do you have any shotgun shells? And his father was like, no, I don't. Spoiler alert. We know he had some. He just wasn't willing to give him away.

He had a name on each of them. Yeah. And so he said, so Charles told him. his son Arthur, you know what, go into town and go get some ammunition. So he sent Arthur away. Just know that. Sent him away. Only Arthur. The oldest boy. Exactly. So what we're going to discuss next is awful. And unfortunately, Arthur was still at the store buying bullets when news already reached him. That's something terrible had happened on the farm. Oh, that's fucked. Yeah. Somebody had to whisk him away and drive him back to the farm.

Oh, shit. So, you know, Arthur leaves. He has no idea what happens after that. Well, the first person to discover the scene of what does happen after that was Charles's brother, Elijah, and his sons. They had stopped by the Lawson farm on their way home from a morning hunt. They were just going to, you know, they were just going to wish the family and Merry Christmas on their way home.

See you later. What they found was that the main. middle girls, Carrie 12 and Maybill 7, had been found in the tobacco barn, shot and bludgeoned to death. Fanny was on the porch with a shotgun blast to her chest. Inside, Marie's dead body was sprawled near the fireplace. James and Raymond, four years old and two years old, had been beaten to death. Jesus. Even the youngest member, four months old, Mary Lou was dead inside her crib. And he bludgeoned her, right? Yes. And Charles was nowhere to be found. Now, immediately, they went bonkers. Police and neighbors started swarming on the scene looking for Charles. Finally,

his whereabouts became pretty clear when everyone heard a single shotgun blast from deep inside the woods behind the farmhouse. Now, Charles had run into the woods several hours earlier after he murdered his entire family, and he had spent several hours pacing along in the woods, alone in the woods before killing himself. That's wild. Yeah, it's insane. Now, it was the family's two beagles

who led investigators to the body. He had killed himself in the woods. Arthur and a police officer followed the dogs to the body. So Arthur was one of the people to discover his dad's body. On Charles's person, there were two notes. I found in a couple places that they were addressed to his parents, but I'm not, that's, like, some places say that, some places don't. It's just worth mentioning. But they both appeared to be only half notes that were left unfinished.

And it is confirmed that there were two notes. I just don't know if it was to his parents or if it was two notes. One said, quote, troubles can cause. That's it. And the other one said, quote, no one to blame, but. And that's it. it's kind of like morbid madlips it is like fill in the blank like try to finish the sentence like troubles can cause farts farts no one to blame but farts

that was not created troubles can cause rashes headaches no one to blame but the president I was going to say laundry detergent because we're in a laundry room but I can think on my on my Maybe we'll just use, we'll put that on the Instagram for like a morbid madlip. We'll post two. Finish Charles Watson's suicide notes. Yikes. So, footprints were also found circling a tree near where Charles's body was found. Was he found with a pencil?

Like, was he going to finish? I don't know if he was found with a pencil, actually. That's kind of funny. He probably was, I would assume. Right. In fact, a circular path had been bore deep in the snow. know, like around a tree. Two, it was clearly just walking in circle.

Yeah, investigators said this indicated that he had clearly been pacing around in a circle for a long time before killing himself. Must have been real dizzy. Yeah, seriously. Now, so now that they knew who the perpetrator was, because it was pretty obvious, they were able to piece together what happened exactly. Mm-hmm. Now, some of them had been killed by shotgun blast, some by beating, and then some by a

combination of the two. And there didn't seem to be like a rhyme or reason to... this, it was kind of just whatever he felt like. Now, sometime after Charles deliberately sent Arthur into town away from the scene, he did send him away. He definitely salvaged him. Yeah, because Arthur did not do this on his own accord. The two middle Lawson girls Carrie and Maybel left the house and they were going to go visit their aunt and uncle. Behind the taco, taco barn. Behind the taco barn. I want a taco barn. Oh shit.

Is that like the Taco Bell, but it's in a barn? It's a taco barn. It's even better. Fuck yeah. So behind the tobacco barn on the property, Charles was waiting with a shotgun. Wow, that's so fucked. He was literally waiting out. His two young, like middle girls. His 12 year old and a 70 year old. Like, bye.

What? The 43-year-old asshole shot his daughters and then bludgeoned them both to finish them off and place their bodies inside the barn. Like, what? I can't. I wish there was more known about this case. That's the thing. It's like we know that like a chunk of it, but it's like, there's way more details. So much went with Charles. It's like it drives me nuts. So he then returned to the family home where Fannie, 37 years old, was sitting on the porch. He immediately shot her in the chest. Wow, she was only 37 and she had eight fucking kids.

I'm saying. Oh! Yeah. She got immediately shot in the chest with the shotgun, moved her aside, went inside, saw Marie, and also saw her two younger brothers, the four-year-old and the two-year-old, James and Raymond. The two little boys ran to hide. I know, I read that. Let that sink in.

So Charlie shot Marie, just outright boom. She fell in front of the fireplace, and then he found the two boys and shot and bludgeoned them both to die. death. Oh my God. A two-year-old. And they ran away from him. Ran away from their father who had a shotgun. I was just killing everybody. That's so sad. Now, finally, he got to baby Mary Lou.

Let's do this fast. I found her death certificate. She wasn't even four months old. She was three months in like, however many days. Not that I'm not saying that makes a huge difference, but it's still like it's a three-month-old. Yeah, that's fucked. Like, you fucking mom. I hate that. Not just a three-month-old, your baby.

Like, this is your three-month-old. Like, what is wrong with you? He bludgeoned Mary Lou in her crib. Her cause of death was a fractured skull. And on her death certificate, it says fractured skull, and it says homicide. He then posed the seven bodies with their arms crossed over their chest, like they were laying in a funeral. Mm-hmm. And he put rocks underneath their heads.

I heard that he put rocks over their eyes, too. I was actually just going to say some accounts say that stones were placed over their eyes as well. But nobody really knows. It's not totally confirmed. They definitely had their arms crossed. And they definitely had rocks under their heads like pillows. What? The stones over the eyes, some say they were and some say they were.

Yeah. It's like, I don't even know how to explain. It's one of those things that it's like the weird caring thing. You know what I mean? But it's also not caring because it's a rock. Yeah, it's not caring at all. But like placing the hands over the chest like in a funeral. position, you know, it's just very odd. So the entire family was gone besides Arthur. Also,

the entire family was buried in a single plot. So the victims lay next to their murderer. Yeah, I think that's fucked up. Yeah. And it's in Browder Family Cemetery just outside of Germantin, which I think it's just fucked up. Like, I don't think they should have the same one. I'm pretty sure it says father. Yeah, I think it does. I probably wouldn't have wrote that. Not really. Not exactly. Let's take that title away from him, I think. I wonder who decided that. I know. That they would be laid to rest together. Because they're also buried next to William, their first.

The youngest. But it's like, Jesus. Well, the oldest technically. Yeah. Yeah, technically actually. Over 5,000 people attended the family's funeral. Holy shit. Because the case just blew up.

I mean, this was the hugest thing to happen. I think it was mostly people just being curious. I mean. But a lot of people also liked this family. Yeah, I mean. So Charles's brain was removed for analysis after his death, and it was brought down to. Baltimore to Johns Hopkins because they were like, something's got to be off here.

What the fuck made him do that? And they were also trying to find out, did that hit with the Maddick cause something in his brain, like that we can see damage? They said nothing abnormal about his brain, totally normal. And they said that head injury did not cause brain damage. So it had nothing to do with that. So it didn't have to do with that. Now, of course, like I said, the town went nuts about this case. And Charles's brother Marion saw. this as an opportunity. He decided to turn the crime scene into some kind of weird-ass tourist attraction, which I would totally go to.

But I'm going to judge it from afar. He charged visitors 25 cents to tour the actual house and crime scenes. Now, again, this isn't like today where everything gets fucking cleaned up right away. It was just there. It's blood stains and all. This was a literal crime scene. Yeah. It's gross.

I mean, there was copious amounts of bloods all over the house. I mean, yeah, how many people got murdered. There's at least one photo that I'll post that's, like, of one of the rooms. And it's just, like, you can see just a splatter of blood on the floor. It's all, it's a lot of Marianne's blood, if we're talking about the same picture in front of the fireplace. It's all who, oh, Marie's blood. Oh, yeah, yeah, it is in front of the fireplace. Yeah, but then you see the crib, too.

Yeah, fuck that. Yeah, it's not okay. I didn't like any of those pictures. Nope, don't love it. And Marie's Christmas cake had been left untouched in the house because the family was murdered before they could eat. any of it. And she had, she had finished it. It was like this beautiful little cake sitting on the, and it just kind of was like this, it became this really gross symbol. You know what I mean? Like this really weird symbol of like, look, this family woke up that made a cake and now they all

died. You know, it's just a very odd thing. Now, this cake kind of became like a main attraction. Like, I don't know, had raisins on top of it. And people going by decided it would be cool to take the raisins as souvenirs. And so, you know, so the assholes running the museum had to encase the cake and glass eventually because they didn't want people taking the raisins. I mean, I can't judge because, like, the shit fascinates me. So I can't even be, like, weird assholes. Yeah.

Well, actually, I probably wouldn't do that, but I wouldn't take it. But I would be tempted. But I would be tempted to be like, oh, I could just take it. After the five-year run of the tour, the cake was taken home by a lost and relative, and it was buried. interesting which i don't know if it was just like burying it because it's like a part of marie yeah i can see that special i don't know and it became kind of again like a symbol of this family right like a token now during the five now five years this house was a tourist attraction

and it hadn't been cleaned up or anything no and it drew sightseers by the thousands and supposedly this included john dillinger you don't know who that is do you holy shit who i don't It sounds familiar. He's like a famous American gangster bank robber. Oh, I knew that. You're going to get so much shit for that. I mean, I'm a millennial. Bring it on, everybody.

Bring it on. So, yeah, that's interesting. Everybody listening will think that's pretty interesting. That John Dillinger came to see this house. That's fucking awesome. Crazy. Whoa. Now, the house was eventually demolished.

But now the site is said to have, of course, tons of ghost sightings. I mean, does. People say they see the dead children. They see Charles himself. I don't want that. They see Charles in the woods sometimes. Ew. I know.

I'm not into it. Stay out of the woods. There's also a fun little legend that says that whenever it snows, it snows on everyone else's grave but Charles's. And when the leaves fall in autumn, that leaves fall on everybody else's grave except for Charles's. But aren't they all buried in the same spot? Well, they have different gravestones.

Oh. Now, so like there's been books, there's been poems, there's been songs written about this whole thing, because way back in the day, there was these things called murder ballads. Like a case would happen like this and these like bluegrass bands would write murder ballads about it. It'd start like opening up their washboards. Yeah, exactly. And then like, a jug band. And that's how it went too. They were like murder, murder, murder, murder.

Murder, murder, murder, murder, murder, murder. And you were like, oh, I know that case. And you're like, I'm famous. That case included murder, I bet. No. No. No murder. So in these songs, which is just fucked, I guess they turned, they, like, were used

as weird lullabies. Like, parents would sing these to their kids as, like, cautionary shitting me? No joke. And this is not me making it up. They would literally sing these as, like, cautionary tales. Like, it reminds me. Don't fook your dad. Oh, do you remember the, um,

the office episode with Dwight Shrut and he's singing Learn your rules you better learn your rules If you don't you'll be eating in your sleep That's exactly what I think of Copyright TM, The Office

Yeah don't see what's please So yeah They Dwight Trude in it What did they sing to them? How was that cautionary? Oh I have a couple of lyrics Sing it So a bluegrass duo

the Stanley brothers penned a ballad called The Story of the Lawson family, which sounds so pleasant. Yeah. They sold it to Columbia Records, and it actually became like a hit song. No way. Yeah, no way. In like the 30s or something? Yeah, I think even like people know it now.

Shit. The song is fucked. I'm sure. I don't know how anyone, it's not like they alluded to anything. They were just like, yeah, murder. Yikes. So these are some of the lyrics. They're like really disturbing.

It says, quote, They say he killed his wife at first, while the little ones did cry. Please, Papa, won't you spare our lives? It is so hard to die. Those are some of the lyrics. I just got chills. I think they're actually really fucking gross for taking, like, artistic license with this. Like, it's not like they were like, and then he went and he murdered his whole family, and that's really sad.

They were like, this is what the children cried to him as he did. It's like, bitch you don't know that. You made that up. Like, and that's really gross. And why did your brain go? there. Yeah. I hate that. Gross. Hate it. But people would sing that to their kids. Um, what? It's fucking weird. I mean, if you do look at nursery rhymes as a whole, they're all fucked. Oh, like, London Bridge is falling down. And all of them. They're all, like, there's some that

we have a book of nursery rhymes that someone gave us for, like, baby shower. Some of them are hell racist. Sorry if you're listening to this and you were the one that gave us a nursery rhyme book, but like, what the fuck, dude. Yeah, they're fucked. They are so racist. So, racist. So racist. So sexist. I mean, they're all like maids in the kitchen and shit and I'm like bitch please but the racism in there is no way no beyond I mean there's there's so many that I'm like I'm not reading you that I will like change the words I will I'll change the words because I'm not reading them racist old poems that's crazy um so weirdly in 1945 Arthur Lawson the only surviving member of the family died in a freak truck accident in Walnut Cove, North Carolina.

At the age of 31. Yeah, that's messed up. He left me on a wife and four children of his own. Wow. And it's just weird. That's a weird, tragic accident to happen after you survived an entire family massacre. You know, like, damn. So it wasn't until 1990 that a book about the massacre was published

that actually led out a few of the secrets that could have led to the tragedy. And I think Ash is going to get a little more into that. Here I go. Because, yeah, because there's a lot of theories that are surrounding. Because, again, we've got here. We know it was Charles. We know what happened. We know who done it.

Nobody knows why the fuck this happened. No one knows. And that's the biggest thing that everybody's like, okay, we know everything else about this. Why the fuck did he do that? Like, it doesn't make any sense. So without further ado All right, so theory one Theory time

Theory number one Next to it I wrote yeah All right So some people believe that Charles Had a medical condition Like Elena was saying He hit himself in the head with an axe And people thought it changed the way that he thought

And it made him snap But we can already cross that one off Because you said they examined his brain Exactly And it was fine And it seems like he already kind of had A slight temper Which I feel like every father in the 20s

had a, like, farmer father had a nasty temper. Every father has a temper, like, yeah, until now, pretty much. So the theory within theory number one, the medical condition, is that I read somewhere that Charlie had a growth on his chest. Oh, I saw something about that. Which caused him a great deal of pain. So one day he decided it was time to end the pain,

and he just didn't want to go alone, so he took everyone with him. Yeah. But that makes no sense because, one, like, they would have known that when they found him and did his autopsy. Yeah, exactly. Why would he just like kill the whole fucking family? Yeah, why wouldn't he just kill the South? Yeah.

None of those stories made sense. And if you want to end the pain, you're just going to do it. So theory number two, I wrote next to it, that real shit. Oh, that real shit. So the lowdown on theory number two is that Charlie was doing the damn thing with his daughter, Marie. Oh! Did you bring your barf bag? So suspicions were starting to arise.

So he basically just felt that he had to kill the whole family because that's the way you deal with like your grown ass in session. dual decisions. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you just take everybody down with you. You decided, you know, let's spook my daughter, but then people found out and he had to kill them all. Seems legit. It's also believed that Marie was pregnant with her father's child. I found multiple sources that said Marie had confessed to her friend Ella May a few weeks earlier during a sleepover that she was pregnant with her dad's baby and that both of her parents knew. Which would explain why Fannie Mae looks so, like, upset in the family picture. Like, she just looks like she's done.

Yeah, she really does. I heard that a cousin in the family said that she overheard her mom and a few other Lawson women talking at the funeral about how Fannie had found out that Marie and Charlie were having a relationship before Christmas. Yep. And that she was, like, completely sick over it. Oh, sure. Could it deal? Duh.

Yeah, and this all, these seem, like, they seem legit. I mean, yeah. Because multiple people and multiple family members are kind of. Well, and then a neighbor named Sam Hill, who was, like, living by a family because he's a neighbor, said that when Charlie found out Marie was pregnant with his child, he cornered her and threatened her that, quote unquote, there would be some killing done if she were to tell her mom or anybody else. Oh, it's no big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Like, so who knows if that's here's that? Because, I mean, people make shit up afterwards. Yeah, for sure. And then the other thing is, it's like, did they? know if Marie was pregnant? Like it's, I can't find anywhere if it's confirmed that she was pregnant. I think maybe, I haven't heard anything that like somebody else confirmed. I've only heard that she herself told her friend. But wouldn't they know? Like LMA. Or was it too? Couldn't they? I mean, in the 20s, you just kind of knew your body. You knew whether you were or not. I'm just saying like, it's hard to. She could have just like missed a period and then just know the time. Because you know your body, right? Yeah. So.

So she could have just told a friend, like, I know I'm pregnant. Well, that's fucked. Because that's what it seems like. She told her friend, what, LMA, is that her name? Yeah. Well, I'd be, like, really awful, too, if, like, she actually wasn't pregnant. I know. And then, like, the whole family just died.

Exactly. Because he thought she was. Yeah. Like, that's fucked. That's really fucked. Um, and then the other couple things that I wanted to talk about was the, like, theories regarding why Arthur was spared. Yeah, that's, that's, because that's fascinating to me.

Well, and I just, I think it was done on purpose. Yeah. So theory number one is. that Charles sent Arthur away because he knew he wouldn't be able to kill everybody with Arthur there as Arthur was taller and he could have been able to stop his father. And I can see and you know what? Like now thinking about that because that is a good theory and I think also it seems to me like Arthur was a good shot himself.

He was a hunter. Right. He knew how to use a shotgun. So he, and he had his own shotgun. Exactly. So I think he was too worried that maybe he had way too much like means to defend himself like you're saying. It makes sense.

Yeah. The other theory is that he intended to kill Arthur, but in the time that Arthur was away, his, like, brother came over with his nephews. So he had to think fast, and Arthur was spared only because Charlie had killed himself in the meantime. Yeah, that one to me is flimsier because it's like, why send him away at all?

Yeah, you didn't have to. If you already planned on killing everybody, because I think that would put a wrench in your plan. And you could have just said, go later. Yeah, exactly. Like, we'll hunt later. Right. Like don't worry. Or just hand him one shotgun shell if you really want to.

The other theory that I found, which I don't personally agree with, and I actually have my own theory at the end, but this is the last one I found. He heard that Arthur didn't believe Marie was in a relationship or pregnant with her dad's baby, and he knew that he would provide a cover if it were to get out after the murders that Marie was pregnant. Yeah. I mean, that one's a little shaky too, I feel like. My personal theory. Which I agree with this one. And I actually just came up with it while we were about to start recording. It just like popped into my head is that he was the oldest boy other than the boy that passed away.

But he was the oldest boy so he could carry on the family name. Exactly. Which I feel like is especially back then. Oh, it was so important. Yeah. And even now, a lot of people place a lot of importance on the boy being able to carry on the family name. Yeah, carry on the family name is apparently huge. Yeah.

But, yeah, I think. Especially back then, it was just. It was just what. It was like you had to have a boy to carry out of family name. Yeah, it was important. So I feel like that makes a lot of sense. And I think it was even like bigger that one to carry on the family name and two, he's the oldest boy. Yep.

So he was almost like a like a token child. I know. And I wonder if anybody like talked to Arthur after this and like asked him. I read that his kids, I think, asked him about it. But he would never talk about it. I would imagine he wouldn't. I mean, I wouldn't fucking talk about my whole family was annihilated. And he, I mean, Arthur probably doesn't know why he was spared.

And I'm sure he struggled with that. Oh, I'm sure. Like, survivors guilt? Yeah. Like, absolutely. So. And I wonder if they ever were like, do you know if your dad was having an incestual relationship with your sister?

Like, do you know if that was happening or did you? And I'm sure he wouldn't talk about it. But it's like you just wish he would have said something like, yes or no. Because every secret that you want to know died with that family the first time. The entire family. And the second time. Yeah. It really did.

When she got the car crash, it's like, that's it. Right. Now it's just speculation and people saying that somebody said this, somebody said that. Mm-hmm. It's crazy. So really you don't know because who knows, maybe she wasn't pregnant. I know. Maybe she was, though.

I think it's most likely she was. And it's, I believe the incest story. Yeah. Because one, I know obviously people make shit up all the time about everything. That doesn't come out of nowhere. But incest is one of those things that's like, if this family member says, saying it, then maybe, even if there's not full-blown incest, something weird's there. Yeah, for sure.

If people are insinuating that you are possibly having inappropriate relationships with your child, then something is off there. You know what I mean? Like, if people are actually insinuate, I mean, like, people are dicks all the time. Like, the biggest pet peeve of mine is this new thing where, like, celebrities will post photos of them, like, kissing their kids on the lips. Oh, and people think it's gross. And mothers will go fucking bananas and be like, you're, you're.

a pervert and stuff. First of all, like here's my, ready, I'm stepping on my soapbox. Because first of all, if you look at a picture of a parent kissing their child, like young child on the lips. And that's the first thing you think. And the first thing you think of is sexualizing that image. You're fucked. You should be locked away. Yeah. Because you're a fucking dangerous pervert yourself. Like, you, if you look at children kissing their parents and think that something sexual is there, then you have sexualized a situation. And you're gross. Right. And it's like my two-year-olds, I will give them kisses on the lips until they tell me, mom, you're gross.

Don't kiss me on the lips. Yeah. As soon as they say that, I'll be like, okay. And I'll stop doing it. But until then, I'm going to get as many kisses as I possibly can. And it just drives me nuts. It's weird to think that's weird. It's very weird to think that's weird.

Yeah. So I'm not saying, like, they were lovey or something and people insinuated that they were incestuous. I'm saying if people are literally like, no, they're definitely like bump and uglies, there's a serious. I've never heard that before. You haven't? No, that's amazing. You're bump and uglies? Oh my God, I'm going to say that all the fucking time.

I can't believe you've never heard that. Listen, I know you're bumping uglies with so-and-so. Oh my God, that's my newest shit. That is my newest shit. I'm really glad I could introduce that to you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Maybe I didn't know who John Dillinger was,

but now I'm going to say bumping uglies left and right. People are bumping uglies left and right. I'm shitting. That's awesome. I'm so glad I introduce that to you. I feel really good about myself. I'm so glad. Yeah.

That's like an older term. I'm surprised you've never heard it. Never. I guess not a lot of people use it now. I've never heard that in my life. I'm an ancient being. So I think it's not. You're not even that much older than me.

I'm not. But I feel like an ancient being. You know what I think is funny? I've lots of wisdom. Sometimes people tell me that I'm an old soul. That I am an old soul. Yeah. And sometimes I'm like, yeah, totally.

But then other times I'm like, yeah. What the fuck are you saying? Like, what is the phrase you just used? You are kind of an old soul. Thanks. In certain ways you are an old soul, in certain ways you are very much. I'm a gypsy. A young man, millennial.

I'm a gypsy soul. So, yeah. So what I was saying there was, like, if people are really going into, like, the you must be bumping and uglies. Bump and uglies. Then you have put something out there that is not just children loving their parents. Yeah, no, 100%. So, and it's just, like, the Hinter-Kifeck thing, it's like,

there's too much where there's smoke, there's fire. And there was too much chitter-chatter about this relationship. And then you look at Marie in that photo, you look at the way they're positioned in the middle, like they're the parents. And there's a lot that's like, huh. You could have a psychology field. Yeah, you really could. So, unfortunately, we will probably never know.

The answer to any of these questions. Charles Lawson killed his whole family except Arthur. He did. He's the worst. So, uh, so yeah. Merry Christmas. And a happy new year. That's the first of our Christmas holiday extravaganza. Our December festivists for all of us.

We could take a couple recommendations for a Christmas case. Because we have some ideas, but if you guys, we have the rest of our month planned out, but we have one week that we're touring with of what to do. So if you guys have some recommendations, throw them our way. We're looking for Christmas cases. Anything Christmas or not just Christmas, holiday related. Hanukkah murders. You know those Hanukkah murders.

Kwanza murders. Quonsa murders. You know, winter solstice murders. Boxing day murders. Throw them our way. And we'll throw them in the mess with it because we have one week that we're just, you know, we're toying with. So give us your suggestions. Let us know.

We're going to throw up those morbid mad libs. We're going to barp them out on the Instagram. We're going to bobbit them onto the Instagram. We're going to bump them out ugly. We're also going to ask you guys what would be your worst fear. Yeah, what your worst fear would be. Personified. So keep an eye out.

And we'll be giving you, you will be getting two episodes this week. On like last week when we almost... I'm not talking about it. You know, got haunted to death. So... You know I had like trouble sleeping that night? Really? Yeah, I slept like a baby.

Of course you fucking did. I was a little spooked. I took some Advil PM though and then I was fine. But that was also fun doing a live... Yeah, we should do more of this. We should do one on like X-Miss. Yeah, we should. We'll like bump one out every now and then

because we were surprised so many people popped on. And so many interactions too. So that was fun. So thanks guys for doing that with us. We'll definitely do that more often because I was scared, but we did it. And we looked like shit. Nobody even yelled at us. Now no one told us we looked like, um, you know, swamp beasts. So I get that a lot. I looked like a bridge troll that night, but it's fine. So thanks, guys. You were rad. Um, so yeah, so you'll be getting a second episode this

week and uh, your second episode is going to take a look at some of Santa's helpers and I don't mean the elves. I'll just put it that way. Da-da-da-da-da-un. So stay tuned. for that. I'll be updating you guys about any merch that's going to be happening, which will hopefully be happening soon. And yeah, make sure you rate and review and subscribe. If you have a feeling like you want to give us a one-star review because

you want to tell us that we are trying to be Karen and Georgia for my favorite murder. Did we get that recently? You know, just go ahead and like, don't do that. And then go fuck yourself. Maybe just like say it to the mirror or something. I don't know. Say it to the person next to you. But don't give us one-star reviews because you don't like that two women are talking about true crime.

I can't help that I'm a woman. Yeah, it annoys me. Like, first of all, I love when people lovingly compare us to my favorite murder. Yeah, that's a compliment. That's a huge compliment. And honestly, people giving, because we've gotten a couple people that are like, that will do the, uh, they're trying to be Karen and Georgia. I don't think we are. We're not.

But second. Okay. even if we were like again okay you want to tell me that i'm a second rate karen and georgia i will take that yeah fucking thanks bitch thank you next i noticed that's like a thing with women true crime podcasts though and even paranormal podcasts i know i'm going off on a tangent but whatever you can do shut this off if you don't let's do it but uh i listen to a what um i'm gonna give them a quick shout out because they're awesome two girls one ghost it's an awesome podcast it's two girls um and one And actually one ghost.

So they talk about like they do one topic, paranormal topic, and they both do, like, stories. And they're great. They're great at it. They're really well researched. They're funny. They're fun to listen to. They spook you out. They're all sham.

And I noticed that they get that a lot on their reviews, that they're like, they're trying to be caring. And I'm like, well, that's just dumb because they talk about ghosts. They're not even talking about true crime. So it's just weird. You know what? We're ladies. Women into a true crime podcast. we're always going to have that on the best.

But whatever. So yeah, I feel like doing that, don't do that. But, yeah. But besides that, rate and review. And if you want to follow us on Instagram, you can find us at Morbid Podcast. If you'd like to tweet us, you can tweet us at a Morbid Podcast. If you'd like to write us some snail mail on the email, you can email us at. Morbid Podcast at gmail.com.

If you want to interact on our Facebook page, you can find that. Morbid. colon a true crime podcast. Dot facebook.com. Just kidding. I don't know about that last part. And join the Facebook group. Yes.

And if you are feeling so inclined, you can donate to our Patreon at patreon.com slash morbid podcast. And you can become a patron. A patroness. So we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. Christmas, Merry Christmas. Happy holiday.

Felice Navi Dodd. Merry Christmas. Fonis, Navarie. Holidays. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays.

It's the best time of the year. In sync. Bye, bye, bye. Bye, bye. Don't really want to make it tough. Had enough. They really had enough. You may hate me.

But I ain't no lie, baby, bye, bye, bye. I was going to remix it and say I'm still here. Shit. Well, now I keep pinning the table with my niece, so it's time to go.