Morbid - The Lipstick Killer (Part 1)

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

BIG, BIG NEWS AHEAD!!!! We are SO excited to announce that The SEQUEL, yes, the 2nd book of The Dr. Wren Muller Series will be released on September 17th, 2024! To Pre-order go to https://zandoprojects.com/books/the-butcher-game/ PLUS! If you preorder the book, get an autographed poster while supplies last by visiting thebutchergame.com.On June 5, 1945, forty-three-year-old Josephine Ross was found stabbed to death in her Chicago apartment. Nothing had been stolen from Ross’ apartment and it appeared as though there were ritualistic aspects to the murder, but with little evidence and no suspects, the case hit a dead end almost as soon as it started. Ross’ murder came to detectives’ minds six months later, when another Chicago woman, Frances Brown, was found murdered in her apartment. This time an ominous message was scrawled on the wall in red lipstick: “For heavens sake catch me before I kill more I cannot control myself.” The brutal nature of the two murders, and the implication that the killer would strike again, terrified the women of Chicago, and that fear was stoked by the city’s five major newspapers, who were in a daily battle for readers’ attention. The story reached a fever pitch just one month later when six-year-old Suzanne Degnan was abducted from her bedroom by someone who’d entered through an open window. Despite the presence of a ransom note demanding $20,000, investigators discovered Degnan’s dismembered body in the sewer a short time later.Thank you to the incredible Dave white of Bring Me the Axe & 99 Cent Rental Podcast for research! Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I am Ash. And I am Elena. And this is morbid. I like the morbid. It just came to man a drum. I like that dream that you just had. Thanks.

I had it while I was in REM. It was a waking dream that you had in REM. I like that. Well, hi, everybody. These intros just get more and more fucked up as the day goes. They're really having a moment. And I think we haven't talked to you guys in a while, maybe a few days. Yeah, it feels like a long time for some reason.

It always feels like a long time, even if it's like two days. I'm like, wow, it's been a while, guys. Hey, how's everybody doing? Hope you guys enjoyed that little George C. Romero episode that we dropped. Hey, hey, hey. Just wanted to drop it as like a little extra, all that fun stuff. Because let me tell you, it was wild. Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

C. Romero. It was a lot of fun. Blew my mind and then how awesome he was and how easy he was to just chat with just made it even better. Like they say don't meet your heroes. Meet him. Meet your hero. Meet him. Meet him. Meet him. He's awesome. I think I say do it. I've met so many of my heroes this year. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. None of them have disappointed me so far. No, I feel like we become friends with them. You do. It's awesome. Yeah. Guys, life is fun. But yeah, I think sometimes. But yeah, I think really, really. the only things floating around in the world, right? There are like a few true crime things happening

right now, but they're all kind of in like nebulous places. I know everyone is continuing to tweet that we need to do an update for Lori Valo. I know. And then we really do. But it keeps unfolding. And I want to just do one more update on it. Exactly. Everything. So it's going to be really soon. We're just like hang tight. I literally just want them to get like, we're right at that point. We're right at the point where we can solidly say like, all right, there's the rest of the episode. And then, hey, how the fuck did Brittany get denied?

Guys, that's a big one. I don't know. If you're a patroness, you know that Ash did a deep dive on that case for a bonus episode recently. It's fucked up. My brain can't wrap around that. She literally said to the judge that her father

finds enjoyment in abusing her. And the judge was like, yeah, like, I'm going to go ahead and deny that. I guess from reading what I've read is like she has to formally petition against the conservatorship. And that's why it was denied. It was denied. I don't know if that's why it was denied. But it has to do with it.

That is something she has to do. But Bessamir Trust, if you listen to the Patreon episode, they were put into place as a co-conservator so that like there was somebody other than Jamie Spears doing it. Yeah. As of yesterday, they've asked to resign. That's crazy. Because they were, and basically their statement, like, summarizing it was that she, this conservatorship is not voluntary and she's basically being held against her will and we want no part of that. Guys, can what is, like, how can anybody just, I know there's a lot of legal channels that need to be gone through at this point. Right.

Because of how deep they're in this and how far reaching this web goes. But like, why can't they appoint somebody? That's what I don't get. Safe. That's what I don't get. Like, that's the part that confuses me. like a guardian at oh um it starts with an else i know what you're trying it may i want to say like at leum but that's not what it is isn't like light it's can we google it i'm going to google it hold on

guardian ad litem so we were both like right there yeah i was thinking in my head ad litem and i was like i was too and it felt wrong okay thank you so we were there we had it i'm sure everybody on the other side of this was screaming that word at us and i feel it's not right and it felt wrong okay thank you so we were there. that word at us. And I feel you because I do that so many times on the podcast. I'll be listening to it. I'm like, it's this. So thank you for that. But you're right. That would be that like something and to that effect, somebody appointed. It's like a, you know, a not partisan person in this. Especially in a conservatorship that involves a 60 million dollar estate. You would think that like maybe you'd appoint somebody that has no goal. Like no horse in the race. You would think so.

But I, this thing is just going to keep going. I think the biggest thing that came out of it was Brittany speaking and Brittany being like honest and saying this is literally abusive and I'm not happy and all those things I post where I say I'm so happy and everyone tells me they, they're thinking of me, that she says she was just, she's happy. She said she cries every day and feels alone. That's really sad. Britney spears cries and feels alone every day.

And like has no control over her own body. Like that's fucked up. had like the fact that she has birth control forced upon her is what like that what my brain I can't even I can't even go I can't what is that say about us as like a society that we're like yeah that's okay like for sure no deny no like that's crazy to think that way that that's okay that you can literally like what so you can just control a woman's body that's crazy like you can forcibly place a birth control device in her body against her will. What? Well, and they determined that the reason why, actually I just thought of it, the reason why

they continued the conservatorship was that they were saying that she still could suffer with like undue influence. And that's not what this episode is about. This is about, but you know what? Sometimes you got to rant about Brittany. We're going to do it until she's free, man. Yeah, fuck yeah. But the other one that we, we talked about it on Patreon, actually, but it's still very much an open. Nobody knows what's going. on here is the summer wells case from Tennessee but it's been keeping both of us just i go to sleep thinking about it i wake up thinking about it i am following the tbi website yeah looking for updates and they keep getting tips but none of them are leading to anything it's a five-year-old girl she's

like beautiful the cutest little thing you've ever seen and there's just a lot of speculation there's a lot of weird stuff in this case she just disappeared from her home in like a very rural area on like like a hilltop with tons of woods around. It's just all of it is very strange and it's one of those things that you're like, I just need to know what happened. Like I need to know what happened. I really, really, really hope for a good outcome. But statistically and realistically, I'm not seeing one. I hope I'm proven wrong with that. But it's been over two weeks and it's been this horrific heat that we've all been dealing with in a mountainous area with lots of nature forces. But, you know, we'll try to keep you guys updated on that.

Hopefully we got a good outcome, but, you know, we'll see. So I think that's really the only things that have been like really like keeping us up at night right now. But we'll, yeah, we'll definitely get back to a Lori Valo episode. For sure. For sure. Very soon promise. I just want to get like a little bit more so that we can wrap it up with a neat bow.

Exactly. So hang tight for that. And I think that's really all we got going on right now. Yeah. So let's get into it here. We are going to take you to Canada. today. Canada. Because we love you.

We love Canada. And we are going to be talking, sorry that I just donked my microphone, that's a term. Stop don't donking your microphone. Don't be donking. But we are going to be talking about Melanie Nadia at TA. Tell me about it. All right. This is a very sad case.

Melanie, before I even get into it, if you're from Canada, you definitely know about this case. But she has been missing for like over 24 years. That's a long time. It's crazy. So let's get into it. Let's do this. Melanie was born Christmas Day in the year 1980.

She grew up in New Liskard, which is in northern Ontario, and it's a very small community, where it was at the time. They've now joined like a couple of other towns, so it's like one big town. Oh, cool. But at the time, expanding. Yeah, we love expansion. But at the time, there was only 4,400 people living there. Whoa.

So very, very small town. Now, Melanie and her little sister, Jesse, were among three to four black girls total in the community at the time. Wow. Right. Crazy. They were being raised by their mom, Salin. Melanie's father wasn't totally in the picture. Actually, he passed away pretty recently. And I just wanted to get that right out there because he's been accused of being involved in this for years and years and years. But it's just like a really stupid theory. He is from Africa and was living in Africa and he has nothing to do with this. And he and Salin were on really good terms with each other. Like she has a Facebook page where she updates about Melanie's case and she was like, I'm really sorry that he passed away and

now he's, well, not, we'll get into it. Yeah. So, Salin had met Melanie's father while she was in school. After she became pregnant with Melanie, he had to leave actually to go to a different college and then eventually he had to go back to Africa where he was from. So, Salin was doing the damn thing on her own. Selin. Salin for the win. And by all accounts, Melanie was an amazing girl. She was described as super fun and outgoing. So Lynn herself described Melanie as literally a second mother to Jesse and went on to say there's nothing she couldn't have done. Oh, which just like breaks your heart. Oh, that really does. There's nothing she couldn't have done. That makes me so sad. And we just don't know and Jesse is her little sister. Mm-hmm. Oh. So on September 28th, Melanie was hanging out with one of

her best friends. It was a Saturday, so they were like bebopping around town running errands with each other. and the next day Sunday was actually going to be Melanie's grandmother's birthday party, and she was going to be the one making the cake. Like she wanted to do that. So while she was out, she picked up a cake pan and a cake mix, and she was looking for a gift for her grandma. That's what they were doing. And then while they were out, they ran into Melanie's new boyfriend, Neil and some of his friends,

and they made plans to hang out with each other later that night and watch movies. Okay. Now, there was also a video rental store not too far from Melanie's place. RAPE video. rental store. There was the Hollywood video, Elena. There was a, I love it. There was a radio rental. That's a really good podcast. There was a radio rental. But so yeah, they all, they all joined together, like, and became one big group, and they walked over to the video rental store. And it was close to Melanie's house, so she was like, oh, maybe we can go watch the movies there. Like, let me just ask my mom.

But in typical teen fashion, Melanie's room was a disaster. And when she asked her mom if her friends could stay and watch the movies in her room, her mom was like, no, your room is crazy messy. I remember those days. But it didn't seem like it. When you be like, what? I don't care. And your mom's like, I care. Yeah, I look like this. Exactly. You're like, mom, our house is clean. It's just my room. It's fine. And she's like, yep, that reflects badly on me. No, they can't come. Exactly. But it didn't seem like it was like, Melanie was like, it's so unfair. Like, she literally just was like, okay. And like, laughed it and was like, let's go. The mom was, Selin was like, you can still go. But like, you definitely are watching your room. And how old was she again? 15. 15. Yeah. So. Boom. Boom.

Now, Selin did something that afternoon, though, that she had never done before. And we'll see that she was like, what? Why did I do that? She walked outside after the kids and just stood at the sidewalk and watched them leave. And she said that she actually said to herself, like, what am I doing? Like, I never watched Melanie leave. Oh, that's, oh, that just, like, gave me chills. It was like she had, like, a mother's instinct that something was going to happen.

Oh, I hate that for her. Isn't that so crazy? I hate that a lot. Now, it was around 10 people. that Melanie and her friends had stopped by her house, and the house that they ended up watching the movies at was only about six blocks away on a street called Pine Avenue. So it didn't take them long to get there, maybe like a 10-minute walk. The group that night was made up of, like I said, Melanie and her best friend, her new boyfriend Neil and two of his friends. And they watched one or two flicks.

And then around midnight, Melanie's friend actually had to go home. She lived like further away and she was going to be getting picked up. So she had to walk a little ways to meet her ride. Okay. Now, years later, it came out that this girl was walking to the meeting point where she was going to get picked up. And there was a suspicious car driving really slowly and seemed to be following her. And it scared her to the point where she full on ran to where she had to be. Good for her. And luckily, her ride was there waiting. Now, Melanie, unfortunately, didn't know that information, though. And when she left to walk home by herself an hour later, it would be the last time anyone saw her. These kind of cases stress me out that they're just walking home. It's just off the street. And it's like I said, what, six blocks, a 10 minute walk. Yeah.

Whenever it's like right off the street or right just in public, it's like, what? Yeah. What the, like what? I can't. I just can't imagine like watching somebody walk because one of the boys watched her walk down to the end of the street like to make sure she was okay like for that very brief period of it. But I can't imagine being the last person to see somebody walk away. Like I can't imagine being left with that.

Later finding out that you're the last person who saw her besides the person who took her. Right. Wow. So she, like I said, was 15 at this time, has been missing for 24 years. Wow. She was last seen wearing jeans, a green Nike sweatshirt, a white T-shirt, and black boots. Oh, that just makes me so sad. It's so sad.

So it wasn't until the next morning that Selin knew something was wrong. Melanie actually had to be up early for work that morning. And Cillin woke up to the sound of Melanie's alarm clock going off in her room. That's so ominous. Now, she wasn't like super freaked out by that because she was like, you know, Melanie falls asleep watching movies all the time. Maybe she just fell asleep there and she's going to get to work like from there. So she turned off the alarm.

She went back to sleep, then went about her morning. But later that same morning, she got a call that Melanie hadn't shown up for work. Now, Melanie loved her job. She was also just like super responsible. So if there was a reason why she wasn't going to be able to make it in time, she would have called. Yeah. So immediately, Salin knew that something was terribly wrong here. That's always the alarm bells.

Yep. That they didn't show up for work and then they always showed up for work. That's always, I hate that. It's so sad. So luckily she knew Melanie's best friend really well. But like I said, the boyfriend was new. so she didn't really know the boyfriend or his friends too well. So the only one she really knew was Melanie's best friend.

So she called her. And she was like, you know, like Melanie hasn't showed up for work. She wasn't here this morning. Like, what's going on? What happened? So the friend was like, yeah, I haven't heard from her. And, you know, like I left first. I haven't seen her.

And then later she found out that one of the boys watched her until she got to the end of his street. And then nobody had seen her since. Imagine finding that out as a parent. And honestly, like, I'll get into it later. Like, the boyfriend gets blamed a lot for not walking her home, which, like, why didn't somebody walk her home? Like, I'm not blaming anybody here. Absolutely not.

But why did you not walk her home? Yeah, just, like, walk your friends places. You know what I mean? Like, don't let friends go places alone. Especially that late at night? At night. That's the thing. And, of course, again, not anyone's fault.

No, of course not. Anyone's being blamed here. And I say that later. Exactly. Like, I say it. I say it later. It's in here. It's in my notes. Also, it's implied. I think people listening know we're not being like, he's to blame for this. No, of course not. No, it's just one of those life lessons that you're, when you're into true crime, you learn a lot of fucking lessons. And it's not because someone did something inherently wrong that they should be blamed for. Right. It's because it's shit we don't think about. And it's shit that people didn't think about. And then something bad happened. But it's shit, none of us do. So it's like when we and probably other podcasters are true crime. people say like, just always do this. It's not that they're saying like we're blaming the person. It's just, you know, here's a lesson to learn. It's just a friendly reminder. Yeah, a lesson to learn.

Like whenever we come across these cases where, you know, something happens at like a nightclub or outside a bar and it's because, and, you know, people, friends had let their friend wander out drunk by themselves. And we're like, don't let people do there. Don't let them leave by themselves. It's one of those kind of things. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. eggs. Actually. Correct. Eggs. Eggs. Eggs, eggs. We're just living the dream. So after learning that Melanie had been walking home alone, Selin just had a feeling that made her sick to her stomach. Because Melanie didn't walk home by herself at night a lot. Like this was not a normal thing. Honestly, I'd be terrified to walk home by myself at night. I'm 35 years old. Yeah. I'm scared to walk out into your driveway at night by myself. Like when I leave and it's really dark out, I'm like, Elena, can you watch me in my car? Like, just watch me. Like, I literally do that.

And I get it. I feel you. Well, and I think like that Salina, as the mom, too, is calling the friends waiting for that reassurance of like, yeah, she's on her bed. But like, this happens all the time. And her friends are just going to tell me that, yeah, she overslept. Or yeah, she's on her way to work and she's running there right now. Like, you're just going there for the reassurance. You're not going there for this all of a sudden.

No. And that's what she got, unfortunately. She immediately called the police and reported Melanie missing. I thought you were going to say. something. You did like a really big inhale and looked directly at me. So I stopped like, yes. That's on me.

Here I am. I got my face. I breathed in real hard. It's like, yes, ma'am. And I looked her dead in the eyes. Just like, like, like you were waiting for me to let you say something. And I was like,

by all means. I was something important to say. I have nothing to say. I was just listening, but I just took a good breath in. Yeah, well, I have a lot to say. Sorry. I had bent over really. quick and that winded me for a second.

It do be like that sometimes. Now, the search was on that very afternoon. It was around 2.30 p.m. that police started searching the areas where Melanie could have been. And I know, I'm like, it was on as soon as it happened. It was later in the day because it took a while to put the pieces together of what it happened. Yeah, absolutely. Now, to make it home, Melanie would have had to walk across the Armstrong Bridge,

which is above the Wobby River, I think is how you say it. Really, that would have been the only well-lit location where somebody could have seen her. And somebody did come forward later, claiming to have seen her walking across the bridge that night. So we know she made it as far as the bridge. They searched in the river all the way to the lake to miscoming and along the bridge, but they found no, like, no sign of Melanie, not a single trace. Now, the local police realized they were in way over their heads with this. And they called in the help of the OPP, which is the Ontario Provincial Police. So the OPP expanded the search and they used different sniffer dogs.

They used multiple helicopters. They were like really doing the damn thing. But still they were coming up with nothing. How? Nothing. It is literally like a fucking like thing opened up in the air and she walked into a different universe. Just a portal. It was like Donnie Darko.

That's what I was literally thinking. I knew it. That's why. See, I'm here. But it's true. How does that happen? Whenever it's like no. scent, no nothing? Nothing. How? I just don't understand. It's so strange to me when people just

vanish without a trace. It's crazy. It doesn't make any sense. That seems to be what's happening with the Summer Wells thing too. I know. And if it turns, it's super weird because I was working on this as I'm like reading about the Summerwell's case and I'm like, oh, I hate how similar. Yeah. I do. There's got to be something, you know? Right. Now luckily the community could not have been more helpful. They all banded together immediately. People would hold their own search parties. Selin and a group of her friends would go out together all the time hanging posters, looking in places where they thought maybe she could be, and nothing. The police also held different training events for the volunteers in the area dedicated to finding Melanie. A $50,000 reward was announced that would be given to anyone

with information that led to an arrest in the case. And again, tons of missing posters were put up and plastered all over the area. And the most well-known one is a huge one that actually crime stoppers put up with a photo of Melanie. And this is gives me chills every single time. Underneath it, it says, you know what happened to me. So why don't you help? Oh.

I just got chills again. Literally my whole body just goosebumps. It's like, oh. Oh. But like how effective is that? But it's true. That's the kind of stuff they need to do is like really like punch at people. heartstrings.

Because somebody does know. Someone knows something. I think it's somebody in that community that knows something. Wow. Now everyone, that was a lot. It was a lot. Now, everyone who was at the house that night, including the parents, were questioned and re-questioned by the police.

The police, like, faced a little bit of backlash on the way that people were questioned who were at the house and just in general. Yeah. But I think they did a really great job overall with this investigation. Well, that's good. I'm not going to shit all over them. When you do a good job, you do a good job. And you know, you have a 15-year-old girl missing, like emotions, as much as you're trained not to have emotions, are going to come.

For sure. Up, you know? Yeah. Now, luckily, they were ultimately cleared as suspects. Melanie's boyfriend, unfortunately, like I said, was treated particularly badly because he hadn't walked her home. And he recently said that he still regrets that decision to this day. And he's still regularly blamed for her potential murder. Like, people call him a murderer.

That's really sad, but, like, he blames himself to this day. It's, yeah, it's, nobody should have that sitting on them. Because nobody ever thinks that something like this is going to happen. That's the thing. Right. You can't ever be prepared for this. No, of course not. That just suck.

And like I said, people are calling him a, like a murderer, because people don't believe that she's still alive. And actually, the investigators put out this statement. There is no evidence that Etienne left the new Liskard area on a voluntary basis. All evidence and data collected to date, would indicate that Melanie A. TA has met with foul play or at the hands of persons unknown. Wow. Now, a task force was put together, too, to try to get any leads, but it was disbanded in

1998 when there was still no movement in the case. But the good thing about this case is that the investigators say it will remain open until they can find out where Melanie is or definitively determine what had happened to her. So, like, this is not a case that they're closing. Like, this is an active case, which makes me super help. It's like the lady of the dunes kind of thing. They're going to keep this going until they know who this, exactly what happened. Exactly what happened here.

And they think obviously there has to be one person out there with information. And I do want to say this, they don't think the person who did this was a part of the community where Melanie disappeared from. That kind of makes sense. I wanted that as well. And when we get into the theories later, there are like some outsiders that were in town that weekend. So it is interesting. Oh, so that could be something. Right.

So by 2010, it was stated that the OPP had over 700 tips from 500 witnesses and that there were more than 300 people of interest in this case. That's always so daunting to hear because you're like so many of those are just garbage. Oh yeah, because right now the Summer Wells case, like they literally said that they have over 700 tips and none of them are helpful. So it's like you, those tip lines are so good, but so bad at the same time because it's like anybody can call with anything. And they have to look into every single time. They have to check off every single one of those boxes. So if you're calling just to be a part of it, you're just wasting time. Valuable time.

You're being an asshole. And over the years, the OPP has been criticized for not having enough information regarding this case. But it's clear that they do, I think, like in my personal opinion, I think they definitely know something. And they're holding it close to the chest. Investigator Rob Matthews responded to this criticism saying, I would hate for the offender out there to know where we are at with the case. Yeah. Which like we've said before, that's a smart way of going about things because, you know,

that way they can be sure that whatever convincing information they do get is based in fact and not because somebody read it in the newspaper saw it in the news. Exactly. It's, I think it's a smart way to go. Right. Because that is how you're going to weed out the people who want attention from the real suspects here. Exactly. And I feel like him saying, I would.

hate for them to know where we're at with this is like to me it says like we're kind of closing. I'm not going to say closing in, but they're at a good spot. We're closer than you think. To me, it could go either way. Yeah. It could be, I would hate for them to know we have shit all about this and for them to feel great about that and feel safe. Or it could be, I would hate for them to know that we're really close to catching them

and then have them bolts. See, this is the realist in you and this is the fucking optimist. Because it could absolutely go either way. But obviously, I'm hoping the latter. I'm an air sign and you're always bringing me back down to Earth. That Earth sign over here. I'm grounded. No, just because they don't come out and say exactly what is going on,

it doesn't mean that people don't have theories of what happened here. Of course. Of course, with a case like this, we're going to have a ton of theories. So let's get into those. One of the biggest theories for a while was that an uncle and his two nephews had actually murdered Melanie. Whoa. So in April, just five months before Melanie went missing,

Gregory Crick and his nephews, and yes, this is not the famous person. Robert Goulet. I, what? Yes. And Michael Lafranere, I believe is how you say it. Together, Gregory, Robert, and Michael murdered a man named Louis Gautier, I believe is how you say it. I'm taking French on Babel and I'm really trying here. I'm trying.

So Michael and Louis allegedly had been involved in a relationship together, but Uncle Gregory did not approve of this relationship because it was a same-sex relationship. Come on. Now, Gregory was apparently the one who came up with the entire plan, and he was basically just cheering his two nephews on as they killed Louis. What? So somehow he got Robert to, like, kill this guy that he was apparently involved with. And this is like, this happened? Yes, this happened. This isn't like, we think this happened. No, no, this happened. So later on, Robert was telling people about the murder and boasting around town. And Gregory and the other nephew, Michael, decided. that the best way to take care of this would be to also murder Robert because he was going to get them caught. Maybe. Can we stop murdering people? Like that one is too much. Let's not tack on a few more here. Now, Robert was found stabbed to death and left in a gravel pit that April. And Gregory and Michael were both sent to prison for the murders. Whoa. Right. That's gnarly. Now, the police say that there's

no connection between the two crimes and that Michael Lafranair has publicly denied that he had any involvement in Melanie's case. And what is the like what's the theory there? So let's get into that. Because I'm like, wait, how does this connect? You're like, what's the theory? I had to tell you what happened first. Okay, I appreciate that. So while he was in prison, Michael was apparently telling inmates that he and his uncle were also responsible for Melanie's murder. And they were alleging that they disposed of her body using a wood chipper. Oh. Now the movie Farrow. came out around the same time that she went missing. Wasn't Fargo a thing during this time?

Fargo was like huge during this time. So everybody was saying that. And her mother was like the fact that that was a rumor around town and I had to think of her being like placed in a wood chipper. Like you can't even imagine what that would do to somebody. Just hearing people talk about that like it could be real. Right. Like people in town just like at the grocery store.

Well, I mean Fargo is based on a true story. Like it's fucking real. It's not like that didn't happen. Yeah. It's putting somebody in a wood chipper. Like, what the fuck? That's wild. But people thought this could have been true, especially when they put two and two together

because there was other black girls in the town. And like I said, there was only about three or four altogether. But they had apparently been threatened by Robert Goulet and Michael Lafrenere. What? So Robert and Michael actually made threats in public to one of the other black girls in the community. And her name is Sarah or Sierra, depending on the source. Okay. Now, she was said to have been buying drugs from them at the time and owed them money.

But they had threatened to shoot her and were yelling racial slurs at her and another black girl that she was with at the time. What the fuck? So they were literally just doing this in the middle of the fucking town and like tons of people saw it. Now, around the time of Melanie's death, Sarah was telling her friends that she was afraid for her life and really thought these guys were dangerous to the point where she actually went to the police about the threats. So, I mean, that seems pretty credible to me. Seems pretty credible. And then strangely enough, Sarah was said to have been basically Melanie Etienne's doppelganger. Really?

She looked apparently just like her. And since the community was small, they were often confused for each other. Oh, what? And so for that reason, people thought that maybe Melanie's disappearance was a case of mistaken identity and also racially charged. Get the fuck out of here right now. Yeah, get the fuck out of here. not yet before I tell you that Sarah slash Sierra lived on Pine Avenue at the time. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry.

That theory has some fucking legs. Has some fucking legs. Tree trunk legs. Yeah. Stirty ass legs. Yeah. And they thought so too. If that is the truth? Mm-hmm. Whoa. Now at the time, the police thought so too. And because of it, they actually put Sarah or Sierra, depending on what her name is. I don't know why it's different things. Yeah. Like different sources. But in then, the other like two black girls in the community, they were all being closely monitored because they were like, what if they're next? Yeah, what if they're being targeted? Yeah.

No, luckily nothing happened to the other girls, but crazy. Now, it gets crazier. How, though? Because there was another mistaken identity, like another case of mistaken identity and another theory in this case is that Melanie was abducted and potentially killed by someone working for the uncle and his nephews. What is happening here? So there was another Melanie Etienne in the community.

This does not sound real. But it is. Go on. Go the fuck on. I guess they like looked nothing like each other. But so this Melanie was Melanie Louise Etienne. They went to the same high school and they were a year apart. Wow.

It's not like, I mean, different places, obviously different names are more common. like Etienne, I'm sure, is much more common where she is. But like Melanie Etier just doesn't seem like a name that you would come across all the time. No, it doesn't really. But I believe that's, again, is like a French last name and where I think we're in the area. I was just going to say where they are, it makes sense that that's a much more common name. But it's from this point of view down here, I'm like, what? Like, there was two?

It's crazy. It's crazy. Now, so this is Melanie Louise. She had a friend at the time that was dating Michael Lafranier. and actually Louis was Melanie Louise's mother's cousin. Whoa. I need one of those boards. I need red thread.

I need one of those boards. I feel like everybody else does too. Okay. So Michael Lefranier murdered his either cousin with his uncle and the man that his cousin was romantically involved with. Wow. Who happened to be other Melanie's mother's cousin. Wow. There is way too much intertwined here.

Way too much. Way too much. Like I said, small community. Yeah. Now, apparently in the initial investigation, the police surmised that it could have been possible that Michael and Uncle Gregory were worried that Melanie Louise knew too much and that they had sent someone to kill her or, like, hurt her to scare her silent. So this someone only would have known her name.

And if they ran into the wrong Melanie, they would not have known it. And by the time they realized it, it could have been too late. That one? not as sold on. Okay, great, because my next note was this one does seem a little far-fetched to me. Yeah, cool, because that one's not really, like, he's just driving around looking for the name. Girlfriend. Hi, is your name Melanie Ettee?

You're stealing my shit. I said that. No, I know about actually that. No, and that's all I keep saying. I don't think people were driving around being like, hello, are you met Melanie? I don't know why, but for some reason I picture him wearing, like, a track suit. I love that for you. driving like a Toyota Camry and being like, are you Melanie? Are you Melanie? Attaire?

Like just on the off chance that he would just run into her at that time of night. I literally wrote on the off chance that he would just stumble across her is literally what I wrote. And especially at that time of night. Right. No, it doesn't. It doesn't make a lot of sense. The Sarah one, how she like lived on Pinebrook Avenue and like owed them money and shit. And looked a lot like her. And looked like her. That one I think is very, very interesting. I think that's really interesting too. And it breaks my heart if that's the case. I mean, it breaks my heart either way, but like a mistaken identity just adds another layer to it.

Oh, yeah. Because that it means murder is senseless no matter which way you got to. But it's like wrong place, wrong time kind of situation. Exactly. Now, another theory relating to these crick murders is actually super close to the family. Hmm. But it is interesting in this case that everything goes back to the crick murders. Yeah.

In my opinion. So Cillin had a friend named Sylvie at the time of Melanie's disappearance, and Sylvie was dating a man named Dennis Laveal. I think that's how you say it. I tried. Now, Dennis was a piece of shit, human garbage pile. He had done time in prison for sexually assaulting multiple young girls all around the age that Melanie was when she went missing. That's horrifying. While speaking to David Rigen of the next call, which, by the way, is an amazing multiple parts.

podcast that just recently launched. It is really cool. It's so good. Now, Salin said that she was always suspicious of Dennis. He had actually driven her to a psychic just three days after Melanie disappeared. And she remembered that he was getting like really agitated and like acting super nervous on the way there. And he also kept trying to get information out of her about what the police were saying

about the investigation. Oh, big fucking red flag. Oh, that's a lot of red flags. Yeah. Like he scared the psychics going to be like, yeah, it's him. Or hey, look close by or something like that. Right, exactly. Now, he lifted his shirt and, like, showed her marks on his body, like on his arms and told

her that they were from Melanie earlier in the week and that they had been play fighting with each other. So he was trying to say, whoever took Melanie must have had similar marks if he had these ones. Okay, no. that sounds like somebody trying to account for the DNA that might be found if they were to suddenly ask him for that. Yeah.

And Salin was like, yeah, that's really weird, though, because Melanie hadn't seen Dennis that week. And he had claimed that he was fishing the weekend that she disappeared. Oh, boy. And all the week leading up to that, she had been at school and then, like, was working and stuff. What the fuck is up with Dennis? Now, Dennis was in prison for some time during the search for Melanie, not a the time that she was abducted, believed to be abducted.

And while he was there in prison, Selin went to visit him and literally told him point blank, I need to rule you out as a suspect. So like, tell me what you know. So he vehemently denied any involvement, but he told Salin that he thought Goulet could have had something to do with Melanie's murder. This is the shadiest stuff I've ever heard. Everybody's just pointing fingers at people. Right.

Wow. It's so shady. So over the years after Melanie's disdeme, appearance, Dennis had called Salin multiple times saying that he was going to end his life and that he wanted her to go talk to him. So she would go meet with him thinking that she would get some kind of like deathbed confession from him. But he never ended up taking his own life. But she would go out to like motels and stuff and like talk to him and try to get this anything. Anything. And she never got anything out of him. Now when he did get out of prison, Salin told her friend she wanted to speak more extensively with him and like

have him please call me. So she waited a day. And so she waited a day. and she didn't hear anything. But the day after that, she got a call saying that Dennis had had a stroke. And he was dead two weeks later. No. Now, most people think that he was super nervous and freaking out about talking to Salin because she was closing in on him. And people are like, he literally had a stroke because of this.

Dude, it makes sense. It makes perfect sense. So she gave the police all the information about him. But with no body, it's like hard to say what his involvement could be. and they're keeping everything so close to the chest. So I have no fucking idea. Like if, I mean, I'm assuming obviously they've looked into him. But I'm like, what did you find?

I'm like, what do you know? Like, tell me. But I find him to be a compelling suspect. Canada. I'm coming out there. I'm coming full. I need to figure this out. It's just like, it's so frustrating.

And it's also, I think with these unsolved cases, every single time you're like, oh, it was that person. Then you know the next year and you're like, oh, no, no, no, it was that person. Yes. And then you hear the next one like we're about to and you're going to be like, oh, no, fucking way, that's too close. Oh, no. Oh, no. So we're going to get to this one later.

So the next theories have to do with the bars in the area. There have been a lot of tips saying that Melanie was struck by a drunk driver on the night of her disappearance. Because at the time, Melanie was walking home, a lot of the local bars would have been closing for the night, meaning there would have been a lot of foot traffic and potentially people in cars as well. Yeah. The bars in Ontario closed at 2 a.m. but there were nearby bars that didn't close until 3 a.m. So one theory is that someone way too intoxicated to drive was trying to get to one of the other

bars in time for last call and accidentally hit Melanie while she was walking home. And it was rumored that whoever this person was may have actually done this, or excuse me, it was rumored that the person who may have actually done this had recently got out of jail and didn't have a license. So they panicked and like shoved Melanie in the trunk and buried her somewhere. And people say that she was buried at Dawson's Point. But Dawson's Point is one of many locations that police have been led to over the course of the investigation, and they never turn up anything. I was going to say, so are they saying, like, here's my theory.

This random person was driving to another bar because they wanted to get there before last call. Do we have an idea who this person is, or is everybody just like, I think it's just like a... I think this imaginary person did this. And you know what? I know their motivations, this imaginary person that I don't even know exists. Right. Maybe that, no. That one sucks.

No, thank you to that one. But I wanted to throw them all in there. No, I'm so glad you're saying, oh, but no, thank you to that. No, that one is stupid. And I also think it's just... That one can see itself out. I don't believe that one at all. No, I think it's just a matter of, like, everybody wants to have a theory.

So, like, somebody, like, pulled that out of their but... And you got to look at every angle. Yeah. If you don't look at the angle, you could be missing sometimes. I mean, is it possible that she was struck by a drunk driver? Sure. Panicked for sure. But, like, this particular dude that's, like, unnamed.

I don't know. Yeah, and it also just feels like a reach. Yeah, it does. Like, I feel like there would be a little more evidence to it, but I was literally just going to say they found nothing. I think they would have found like something had that happened, but I don't know. But going along with the bar theory, some people think Melanie maybe just met with the wrong in in inebrated stranger that night because not only were the bars closing in that area

that led patrons like flooding out onto the streets, but there was actually a couple of weddings going on in town that night, leading some people to believe that whoever did this, maybe with somebody from out of town. Okay. And actually the area where Melanie went missing from is super close to the Trans-Canada Highway, meaning whoever took her could have literally popped onto the highway and just gone wherever the fuck they wanted. Oh, that's terrible.

And because of that fact, a lot of people also think maybe she was abducted and sold into sex trafficking. Yeah. 100%. The fact that it was so close so that is scary. It's scary. It's scary. to actually one or two of those weddings that were going on were going on on the street where she was

at that night. That's interesting. That's super weird. So we have our final theory. And this is the one that I'm like, shit, maybe it's this one. I don't know. The final theory is super fucking creepy. And it will probably come as no shock to you that it involves a white van.

Oh, man. So Melanie's best friend, we know, was super spooked by a car following her in the same. the area that night. She wasn't the only one that night that was put off by a creepy car with creepy passengers. Earlier on the day that Melanie went missing, and actually even before her friend spotted the other creepy car, another young girl was walking her dog and a white van slowly pulled up next to her. Never okay. No. A guy leaned out and asked her for directions, and she could see that there was another man in the van as well. She described both men as unkempt and said that they were around 30 years old. Now the whole situation she just like had a bad feeling about it made her really scared really

uncomfortable. And she was especially freaked out when they peeled away from her because her dog started barking at them like wicked aggressively. Oh no. Nothing's okay about that. And then they peeled away when that happened. No. So immediately you're like, nope, like what the fuck are you up to? No. And I also, I'm sorry, I just don't trust two unkempt 30 year old men stopping to ask some woman walking her dog for directions. A young girl. Nothing about that seems right. No. It just doesn't. No, it doesn't make any sense. I don't know where the fuck I'm going. You know you're being creepy. Yeah. So it's like, don't do it. Just get out of here. MapQuest was a thing at that time, wasn't it? Was MapQuest a thing at that time?

What year was this? In 1996. MapQuest came out in 1996. Did it really? Yeah. The year of my birth? That's the year of your birth. That's crazy. Well, MapQuest was the thing at this time. It technically was. I can now say that confidently. It was brand new. It was brand new. So it was the new thing. Sign up and get away from me in your white van. That's what I would have been. like go get MapQuest. So, bye.

That's what I would have done. I would have just fucking ran. Yeah, I would have just, like what her best friend did, I would have been like, boop, boop, boop, doop. Yeah, I would have just screamed and ran. Cardio. Now, that same night, just about an hour or so after Melanie and her friends had rented a video at that video store.

Video stores. The van pulled up into this video store where they had rented it from. No. One of the men came in. He was described this time as in his 40s, but as we know, like, we were talking about this the other day. We saw a child and I was like, oh, that kid's probably like 11. And Elaine was like, yeah, where he could be like 18. I don't know. Yeah, I have no idea. Right. Who knows? But so it's not crazy. Especially the teenagers. I'm sure he did. Like, I would look 40 probably. So it's like,

you know, you would. They would definitely get it wrong. But yeah, so whatever, that doesn't matter. But he was also described as blonde wearing super dirty work pants. And this is so fucking gross. He was wearing a white shirt that was so nasty and dirty that it appeared yellow. Oh. Like, you, know exactly what I'm talking about. I can see it. And before you said it, I knew you were going to say it. And I hate that we went there. That's gross.

Nasty. I don't like that. I hate it. And he was also wearing work boots. Now, he didn't buy or rent a movie and he ignored the girl working when she asked if he needed help. Okay. It was just like loitering around.

That's fine. Now, she was actually going to walk home that night, but she was so scared by this like not interaction that she called her dad to see if he would come get her and he did. Smart. Very smart. Could those guys have seen Melanie and her friends go into the video store and for some reason be trying to follow them? Maybe.

I feel like that one seems far fetched too though. It certainly is. It's weird that they were like be bopping around the area all day. But it's like did they then wait until like one to two a.m. when she was walking? Like where they were just cruising the area for hours? Yeah, that's the thing that's a little strange. I think the one that really holds here is Dennis. Dennis to me is very, very plausible.

Very plausible. Because it really does go back to that, where they just waiting around until the middle of the night, you know, like, and hoping that she, they don't know if she's going to walk home, maybe she's going to stay there. Right, exactly. So it's like, I don't know.

It's just super weird. I think Dennis is the, like, strongest suspect or somebody from like out of town. I think, yeah, that's what I think that happened to be going down and was like trolling for someone. And also, if we're really going to like go into that far-fetched one, maybe he was at the video store and he heard her and her friends talking about how she wasn't going to be staying there that night. Like maybe it got mentioned or something. Well, at that point, though, they had hoped that they were going back to her house. Oh, I forgot. They thought they were going to Melanie's house. So you're right. Yeah. Unless I don't know. Or maybe he had somebody. Maybe he didn't see her.

or excuse me, hear her saying like that, but they saw them walking around town that whole day. Yeah, that's true. So they could have been, I mean, if they really wanted to find someone. But it's definitely a reach. And I just feel like the possibilities in this case are endless because it's been over 24 years. 24 years. I mean, wild. That's crazy.

And to find nothing. To find nothing. But Salin and Jesse still hope that they're able to find out what happened to Melanie. Selin has, for like lack of a better word, accepted that Melanie is most likely not alive. Oh, that's horrible. But she still wants justice to be served. And she does hope that whoever took Melanie that night is apprehended. But she does think it's more likely than not that this person could be dead.

Oh, I'm looking at you, Dennis. The worst in every way possible. Dead Dennis over there. Dead Dennis over there looks pretty, pretty good. Mm-hmm. Now, Cilin, I had mentioned before, she does have that active Facebook group where she posts, like, updates all the time. And it's called Let's Work Together to find Melanie at TA.

Oh. Now, schools in the area have also changed the way that they teach kids about safety, and they often use Melanie's case as a cautionary tale. Oh, man. And just to finish this off, because I like to do it, I want to finish it with a quote from the family. Selin said, I think our life would have been so different with Melanie here with us. I think in my heart, the only way to find her is if I'm given a location.

To me, it's not as important to know who did it as it is to find my daughter to give her a place of rest. In my heart, I believe she deserves to be found. she should not just be out there somewhere and forgotten. Wow. It's true. 100% it's true. No one deserves just to be out there forgotten.

And to know that your baby is out there and you can't get them? Like your first baby daughter. I can't. Like that who was just the most amazing, remarkable girl. I can't imagine. Nobody should ever have to go through that or feel that way. And it's like, dude, just someone, drop a note. Drop a note and say where she is.

At this point, no one gives a shit. who you are, you'll get yours somehow. The universe will balance out. But just tell this family where she is. Right. And I hate when they hold on to that last fucking little power play that I know. A lot of these dickheads do that. Now, anyone with information regarding the disappearance is asked to contact the director of the criminal investigation branch of the OPP at 188-310-1-1-2 or 705-329-6-1-1-1. or go to the nearest police authority. And I'll link those numbers and the show notes. Wow.

It's just such a sad case, and I can't believe that 24 years we still have nothing. That's what I can't get over. And you know what? That also leads me to believe, though, that she was just like snatched into a car and just left nothing behind. And they just got on the highway. Which is so much scarier. Terrifying.

Just a random passerby. Just takes you and runs into the abyss. It really does make the most sense with the highway being right there and nothing being left behind at all. It makes the most sense that it was somebody who wanted to just jump back on and just screw into the distance. But then you get those marks on Dennis and he's like, Melanie did these. The only things that make sense to me are the traveler theory. And Dennis. And Dennis.

And to me, Dennis, the marks thing. The marks thing is just like... That's weird as shit. And to me, that's like, yeah, those marks are from when you abducted her. Exactly. And he kept saying, like, whoever did this to her, like, would have these marks. And it's like, why... It's like he was weirdly almost trying to get caught.

He was trying to make sure that by offering up that information, he's trying to make himself seem more innocent, but it really just makes you look way more guilty. Right. But he would, but, you know, dumb. The dumb comes forward. makes you think that like, oh, if I offer up the information, they don't even have to ask me. I'll just offer it up. Right. And that makes me look innocent. I was like, nope, it doesn't. One, it sucks too because at the time like DNA testing was not super advanced.

Advanced or anything. So even if they did get anything from him, it's like, and again, we don't have a body of anything to compare it to. It would really only help if you could look at under her fingernails and we can't. And put this together. Where the fuck is she, man? It's so sad. I just, I know I keep saying it's so sad. But I just can't. imagine living with that feeling of just not knowing. And if it's Dennis, where is she? She's around that area if it's Dennis. So it's like, I would think so. I would think so. I don't think he's going, I mean, he was, he was around. Right. Come on. But definitely listen to the next call because he is literally like actively investigating everything. He's trying to talk to the police about things. I love that. You got to listen to that. I'm going to start listening to it too. Yes. Let's all

listen to that. Yes. Let's do it. And in the meantime, we hope. that you keep listening to us and we hope you keep it weird but it's over that you let your friends walk home alone at night please don't do that thank you bye