Morbid - The Murder of Albert Snyder

Episode Date: August 12, 2024

On the morning of March 20, 1927, nine-year-old Lorraine Snyder was awakened by the sound of gentle knocking at her bedroom door and when she opened it, she found her mother bound and gagged on the floor. According to the girl’s mother, Ruth Snyder, someone had broken into the house in the middle of the night, knocked her unconscious and tied her up, then murdered her husband, Albert. Ruth claimed the motive was robbery, but investigators were immediately suspicious of her. Not only was there no sign of forced entry, but Albert’s murder had been particularly brutal and appeared personal. A day later, when police found Ruth’s supposedly stolen items hidden in the house, her story started to fall apart.The murder of Albert Snyder had everything depression-era Americans were looking for in a media distraction—sex, extramarital affairs, fraud, and murder. From the moment Ruth and her boyfriend, Judd Gray, were arrested for the murder of her husband, they were thrust into the spotlight and would remain fixtures on the front pages of the papers across New York up to and including the final moments of their lives.Thank you to the incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesBeckley, Zoe. 1927. "Ruth Snyder to escape chair, is Zoe Beckley's forecast." Times Union, April 19: 1.Brooklyn Daily Eagle. 1927. "Suspect is held after cops grill dead man's wife." Brooklyn Daily Eagle, March 21: 1.Brooklyn Times Union. 1927. "Hid lover in her home, then went to party." Brooklyn Times Union, March 21: 25.—. 1928. "Ruth and Judd die, she first, in sobs; each is forgiving." Brooklyn Times Union, Janaury 13: 1.MacKellar, Landis. 2006. The Double Indemnity Murder: Ruth Snyder, Judd Gray, and New York's Crime of the Century. Syracuse, NY: Syracuse University Press.New York Times. 1927. "Cross-examination of Mrs. Ruth Snyder on her last day on the stand." New York Times, May 4: 16.—. 1927. "Girl finds mother bound." New York Times, March 21: 1.—. 1927. "Gray's first story was full of denial." New York Times, March 22: 3.—. 1927. "Judge warned jury to avoid sympathy." New York Times, May 10: 1.—. 1927. "Mrs. Snyder and Gray found guilty in the first degree in swift verdict; both to get death sentence Monday." New York Times, May 10: 1.—. 1927. "Not a cruel killer, Gray writes in cell." New York Times, April 8: 25.—. 1927. "Says Gray was hypnotized." New York Times, March 26: 9.—. 1927. "Slayers indicted; Snyder case trial sought for April 4." New York Times, March 24: 1.—. 1927. "Slayers of Snyder face speedy trial; racant confession." New York Times, March 23: 1.—. 1927. "Slayers of Snyder hear doom unmoved; put hope in appeals." New York Times, May 14: 1.—. 1927. "Snyder jury hears Gray's confession accusing woman." New York Times, April 28: 1.—. 1927. "Snydwer was tricked into big insurance, state witness says." New York Times, April 26: 1.—. 1927. "Widow on stand swears Gray alone killed Snyder as she tried to save him." New York Times, April 30: 1.—. 1927. "Wife betrays paramour as murderer of Snyder, and he then confesses." New York Times, March 22: 1.Sutherland, Sidney. 1928. "Ruth and Judd die in chair, asking for forgiveness for sin." Daily News, January 13: 1. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid before the new year. No, it's not, but it's like the penultimate before the new year. Yeah, yeah. I like that. Yeah. Sounds official. It's pretty fancy. Yeah. I don't know if you know. But also, just real quick, thank you guys so much for the birthday messages. That was really sweet and everybody was so nice. And I'm still getting them and it's not even my birthday. So I appreciate it. Humble brag that you're not going to humbly brag. about Keith Morrison wished Elena, happy birthday. Thank you and good night. Oh, you better believe I was going to humbly brag about that. Are you, are you shitting my dick? Are you shitting my dick? I, so John got me to Keith Morrison in case you didn't see it on social media. John got me a Keith

Morrison cutout like life size. It was the funniest thing because Elena was distracted doing something else and we put the cut out behind her and she turned around and was like, oh, I was like, oh, Keith. It was the funniest thing. Oh, Keith. What's up? Hey, hey. And now Keith is just standing in our living room now, which is fun because every time we walk into the kitchen, we're like, oh, and we think it's somebody standing in the living room. It's fun. Which is funny, too, because it's like you get scared, but then you're like, oh, it's Keith. But then you are immediately warmed and comforted, like a nice blanket because it's Keith Morrison. He's like, he's keeping the place safe. Yeah, he wished me a happy birthday and it was like pretty much the best thing ever.

Yeah, that's life changing. We're best friends now. I don't know if anybody knows, but we're going to hang out all the time now. We're going to talk. Oh, I have a famous friend now too since you got me cameo from, Oh yeah, from Bill Mosley. Like, we're, we're actually best friends now.

We have lots of famous friends now, guys. Yeah. Yeah, I got Asha cameo from Bill Mosley. I shot. He's amazing. I am reading no funny books, Mama.

And he said, I ain't reading no funny books, Mama. He said, run, run, rabbit. He said, everything we needed him to say. It was so wonderful. T.Y.

Otis. Yeah, you're the best, Bill Mosley. And again, we're friends with all of them, obviously. Duh. But no.

It's just, really cool. It's very cool that Keith Morrison said happy birthday. That made my day. Yeah, that would make my century. Yeah. So, and you guys have been so sweet and so amazing. And again, I want to thank you even more for like the Bailey stuff. I'm still getting messages about that. I know. And it's like really been helpful because people are sharing their own stuff like their pups and their kitties and their other animals. So thank you so much and I love you guys and you made me so happy when it, when things have been so shitty. You guys have propped us up a little bit. Yeah, things have been truly something last.

But honestly, you know what? It won. It could always be worse. Always. Because we're going to talk about many things that are much worse in a little bit. And perspective is very important. And you know what? We got through it because everyone is COVID-free.

COVID-free house. We got through it, everybody. I'm doing a snappy dance. We got through it, including myself. I was COVID-positive and didn't even realize it for a while because I was completely asymptomatic because I got my booster and I totally attribute it to that. It also just makes sense that you were asymptomatic because of who you are as a person. I'm the capricorn. I'm not getting symptoms. Yeah, you're like Elena, it's like,

Elena does it all, including be asymptomatic from COVID. No, I was very lucky. John is just getting his taste, like starting to get his taste back. Even just being witness to somebody losing their taste is, I felt so bad. Horrible. And you know, everyone else has got through it. one has come out the other side and thankfully we were all vaccinated. Yeah, I think my booster saved me. Yeah, I really do. But we're out. We're out of it and we're moving forward and, you know, we got Bailey back home with us.

Yeah, she's on the mantle. So Bailey's on the mantle looking at all of us. We love her. We got her little paw prints, a little nose boop and everything. It's amazing. But she's there and it feels whole now. It feels better now that she's here. Everything feels like it's kind of starting to fall back into place.

So we're just feeling a little more, like everybody can breathe. But again, it could have always been worse. So thanks for bearing with us through that whole thing and being so great and so supportive. You guys are like seriously like a million best friends. You really are. Like it really is like I know like it probably sounds like super hokey saying that. But like it's the truth. It's like really true.

Like when I see a message that's like, oh my God. Like I'm so sorry about Bailey. I'm like thank you friend. Yeah. Like it's just like thank you so much. No, it's true. So you guys rule. And I can't wait for the.

next year just, you know, I'm not claiming it. I'm not saying like new year, new me or anything like that. I'm just don't even anticipate. It's just coming. No, you know, it's just like January 1st, even if it's not like, new year, new me, it's like a nice, we talked about it, like a nice reset of just like getting your shit organized and like getting back into a routine of some sort. Oh yeah. So I'm excited for that. I have a couple of what are they called resolutions. Yeah. But they're not even like resolutions. They're just things that I need to do to like that's literally. In fact, one of my, um, You'll appreciate this. One of my resolutions is simply to moisturize.

Thank you. Because I only moisturize my face. I don't like moisturize anything else. Is anyone else like freaking out right now? Elena lost it. I mean, I have like soft skin. I couldn't believe it.

I couldn't believe it. That you did not moisturize. Oh, but now. Okay, so I've always had like pretty soft skin. Like just like, you know. But now I moisturized with some avino. Oh yeah. You didn't know what soft skin was.

You thought. You thought. Listen, my skin is still very soft. But not moisturized and soft. But now it's, I mean, I've always smelled good too. But it smells good. She's just too. I didn't want to be like, I smelled back before. I've always been soft and I've always smelled

good, but I haven't. It can always be better. Yeah, but anyways, soft and happy. And now we have to move on to some really dark stuff. Yeah, this is something we just had to talk to you guys about. There's not a ton of information right now. So we didn't want to like jump right into an episode to give half information to. No, but it's definitely something that the word needs to be spread out. Yeah, I'm not seeing it enough. And this is like a really weird thing that's happening in a really tragic thing that's happening. Absolutely. So a Bridgeport, Connecticut woman, her name is Lauren Smith Fields. She was found unresponsive in her apartment on December 12th, and she died days later, like days before Christmas passed away. And she had an unidentified older white man over before in her

apartment. She had met him through Bumble, and he was the last person to basically see her alive. He contacted police saying that they needed emergency services, and Lauren later died. Yeah. And this is, I can't imagine like being her family and going through this around the holidays. Days before Christmas. Days before Christmas they lose their daughter and they said that she was a beautiful child with the world at her feet. And it looked like she had everything going for her. Oh yeah. I mean, and the thing is the medic, the autopsy is done. But the medical examiner, nothing has been released. Investigators aren't saying a thing. Which I hope is a good thing. I would hope so, but I have no idea. It does not sound like. I'm. I was going to say. There's been some good cooperation coming from the investigator side to the family. I think the family is really getting the shit end of the stick here. So her father said in an interview, he is 100% sure that she did not do drugs. She was not partaking in anything like that. So it really doesn't look like it could be something related to that. Because of course, when it's like something like this, you always are, and no one was there except one person. You're like, okay, well, if they're not pinning it all. that person. Like, that would be something that people would think, but that is not the case here. No. He actually said, without a doubt, we know that my daughter was not a drug user. And that,

and he had a second autopsy paid for out of pocket themselves. Because they were so uncomfortable with how they were being treated. Yep. And so, yeah, it's ridiculous. And her father actually said that the only contact that they've had with police was, quote, very insensitive, condescending and arrogant, in an arrogant detective. Oh yeah, because a detective, I believe, told her brother that, because they were like, what about this guy that was with her? Like, this is the last person to see her before she died. Like he was, it sounds like he might have been there when it happened. So like, something must have happened where she became unresponsive. And they were told, this family who lost their child days before Christmas was told that this guy's a nice guy who doesn't need to be

investigated. And it's like, I'm sorry, what? He was the last person to see her alive. Like, I don't care if he hands out popsicles to like sad youth. He needs to be investigated. Well, I mean, John Wayne Gacy was a nice guy to cops. He offered them sandwiches. He let them right into their house to use the potty. Like, and that's how they've got him. Like, Ted Bundy was known as a nice guy to people around him. Every murder at some point. I'm not saying this is like a serial killer of that level or anything like that. But I'm saying, I mean, come on. You're not going to investigate the last person who saw somebody alive. And I'm sorry. Sorry. What person found out a crime scene who would be the first person to look out is not going to be a nice guy to you, police?

Like anybody who you call in and are like, hey, you're the one who called this in. We need to talk to you. Do you think they're going to be an asshole? No, they're going to be a nice guy. That doesn't mean he's a nice guy. Of course, we know nothing about this man. He might be a nice guy, but no matter what, he needs to be investigated. And also give the family some more here. I mean, Jesus. Well, and to be, like, arrogant and rude to people that lost their child and sister. They also told the family to stop calling. Yeah, stop calling us. That's their child.

And they're not getting any information. Of course they're going to keep calling. Can you imagine, like, I can't, receiving that? Like, stop calling us? No, I really couldn't. I'd be like, oh, no, I'm going to call you so much more now. I'm literally going to call you every hour on the hour. I'm going to find your home phone number in the yellow pages.

Well, they're not calling to be assholes. they're calling to find out about what happened to their child days before Christmas. So when someone else who they don't know was there. Right. I would be, I would be out of my mind. And her poor mother watching her on that interview, like sobbing, and she even said, I don't know who I'm going to be after this. And that is the most like gut wrenching statement because I can't imagine.

No, and like I don't have children. Like you have children. Like she doesn't know who she's going to be after this. Because this is going to fundamentally change her family forever. Like you lose your child. Nobody should ever have to bury a child. And you know what? Lauren was known as a track star in high school.

She was attending Norwalk Community College. She was interested in physical therapy and cosmetology. She had a bright future ahead of her and it was snuffed out somehow. And she had a side business and was putting herself like through everything. Yeah, she was paying for it. You know, like she was doing her thing. So it's like I just, I don't know. A lot of it seems fair.

of course we have no idea what's really going on, but it's definitely not being handled great. No. For their part, the Bridgeport Police Department did release a statement. They said the Bridgeport Police Department takes these concerns very seriously. The command staff of the Detective Bureau is reviewing the handling of this case to ensure that best practices were and are being followed. It is imperative to note that the death of Lauren Smith Fields remains an ongoing investigation. Our department extends its deepest condolences to the family of Lauren.

Sorry, I just tripped all over that. That's okay. But to me, I think I was tripping over it because I kept thinking in my head. I was like, ongoing investigation. So I'm like, I don't, I, this, there has to be something here. Well, no, like the whole thing of, like, best practices, like we're trying to ensure that they were and are being used. They already weren't.

Well, no, it's like, this family was told to stop calling. Yeah. That's not a best practice. It's not best practice to treat a murder victim's family, or excuse me, I shouldn't say a murder victim, a mysterious death victim's family like that. Yeah, that's actually the worst practice, I would say. So this is a mysterious death. It has not been labeled a murder yet. Or maybe it won't. I mean, there's no good outcome here at all. I mean, Lauren is gone and that's horrific. But at the very least, this family. I want to know more. I want to know what's going on and I want that family to know what's going on. The family deserves to know what happened to their daughter.

So make sure you're following that story because I'm sure more will come out or I hope more will come out soon. And we're going to keep up with it for sure. Yeah, we'll try to keep updating as much as we can. But yeah, see, perspective, my friends. That is a horrific thought right before Christmas too. And this case is really not going to make you feel any better at all. No, I'm sorry, but.

So we're not in the business of. making people feel better all the time. No, we're really not. So we today are going to be talking about the murder of Betsy Faria. So she was born Elizabeth K. Meyer on March 24th, 1969. Her parents were Kenneth and Janet Meyer. She grew up with three sisters and she was better known to her family as just Betsy. But you, I love the nickname. Yeah, that really is adorable. I've never known a Betsy I didn't like. Me neither, actually. Perfect. Well, her friends described her as friendly, fun-loving, bubbly, sweet. One of them said that she could get a party started wherever she went. Amazing Betsy. Amazing Betsy. And also that was a great quality for her to have because not only did

she work for an insurance company by day, but her side hustle was that she ran her own DJ business. That's amazing because when you first said that, you were like, well, that's a great quality for her to have because she worked at an insurance business. I was like, I don't see the correlation. But all right. And then I was like, but wait, there's more. The DJ. That's awesome. Like, I love the idea of her just, like, one day being like, you know what, I want to start a DJ business. Like, I love that idea. And it's like, she's, like, Richard Gilmore and Gilmore Girls is like insurance people are boring, which I'm not saying they are, but Richard Gilmore did.

Sorry about it. Yeah. A fictional character. He's a fictional character. You can't yell at him. But he, but he's always talking about how boring and their drones and all this. And then she's a DJ. And, like, it's such a, like, dichotomy of her personality.

I love it. It truly is. And she would do, like, all kinds of events. She would do her friends' weddings, cookouts. holiday parties. Get it, Betsy. And everyone who knew her was just like, you know what, this, she was a fun time. So she also had a third job because she was a mama.

She had two daughters that she had from a previous marriage. So she had her plate loaded when she met a man named Russell Faria, better known as just Russ. Okay. So Russ didn't mind at all and stepped up to the plate and became a huge part of Betsy's children's lives. He considered them his own children. Love that.

And they considered him like a father figure in their lives. love that. Yeah. So in 2000, after dating for a while, Betsy and Russ decided to get married, and they set the date for a January wedding. Now, over the years, Betsy and Russ's marriage definitely had its highs and lows, obviously, like every marriage. But, you know, during their early years together, Betsy encouraged Russ to go back to school. And he did and ended up getting like a better job. He got a great IT job. So that was when things were like higher. But during one of their lowest points, they did decide to separate. Okay. So the separation last. at about a year. And when it was kind of like at the end, they looked at each other and they were

like, no, like, why are we doing this? We love each other. We want to be together. I mean, not to connect it to the same thing over and over again, but Richard and Emily Gilmore, this is sounding exactly the same. Truly is. They separated like, their separation was heartbreaking. It was, but at the end, they were like, what are we doing? What are we doing? And that's what Betsy and rested. So the shitty thing about the fact that they got back together, like the shitty timing is that not long after getting back together, Betsy was actually diagnosed with breast cancer. Oh. Yeah.

So when she shared the news with her friends and family, everybody rallied around her, especially Russ. He made sure that she was rested when she needed to be, that she always had a ride to and from her chemo appointments, which really wasn't a problem because she had a shit ton of friends. Like a lot of her friends were like lifelong friends. Oh, I love that. People that she met at work.

Like, it seemed like she had a friend in every aspect of her life. That tells you about her. Absolutely. It tells you a lot about her. When you see her eyes, she has the kindest eyes. You got to look up a picture of her. She's just like I won't be her friend. Now interestingly enough, one of those friends who really stepped up to the plate was a woman

named Pamela Hupp. Now they had met about 10 years earlier working at State Farm, which just makes me think of a guy named Jake. It does always. Yeah, but they lost touch over the years. But then Pam ended up finding out somehow that Betsy had cancer and they reconnected. And Pam was like, I want to help you in any way. way I can. Like, I will drive you anywhere you need to go. I will be your shoulder to cry on. I will

be your rock throughout this. And most of the time, Pam was the one to drive Betsy to and from her chemo appointments. She was always available. So Pam Hup was born on October 10th, just to give you a little bit of background on Pam. Ninety-eight was the year she was born to parents Shirley and Victor Newman, which makes her a Libra. Now, a generalization here, because some, but not all Libras are said to care a lot about their reputation. And some are also said to lack humility. How dare you generalize everybody? Yeah, you know, it's just like every fucking Libra.

I hate you all. Some Libras, but that's just a little something to put in your back pocket. Yeah. So Pam's father, he was a union guy and her mother was a teacher. So they were like a super middle class family. Okay. Pam and her three siblings were brought up Catholic in the area of Delaware, a Delwood, Missouri, excuse me.

So Pam was like not the most amazing. student, which like same. But she did have a lot of friends and they all said that she was like very fun loving. She was a good time. And she sounds like you. Totally. Just don't do good in school, but I love to have a good time. Fun loving. That's me. No, during her senior year, Pam started dating one of her fellow classmates. But shortly into the relationship, she found out that she was pregnant. Okay. Now, she and her boyfriend quickly got married. And while all of their friends were heading off to college and like moving on with their lives, they don't. They don't. head first into parenthood and adulthood. So Pam started waitressing to bring in some extra dough.

And even though they tried to make things work after having their daughter, it just, they were different people. They could not be together. But they tried for six years. Wow. That's really given it the old college try. That's given it like more than the old college try. So they got to have divorced when their child was six. And the ex was, excuse me, ordered to pay child support. I was going to say offered to pay child support. He was offered. You were like, do you want to do that? You want to do that? He's like, yeah, sure. Yeah.

No, he was ordered too. And he did. But he would, Pam would make him appear in court with the canceled checks all the time to prove that he was paying child support. Like she was trying to make it seem like he wasn't, but he would show up with a stack of checks and be like, no, I did. No, no, I did. Like, it was just like, I don't really understand why she wanted to do that, but she just,

you know, but she did it. And apparently she was very focused on money. One of her friends later said, quote, when it comes to money, she short circuits. which I'm like, that's odd. That's a very bad quality to have. It truly is. Now, after divorcing her first husband, Pam met a man named Mark Hup. He was in the minor leagues.

He played for the Texas Rangers. But he didn't get drafted. So then he just went back to Carpentry. So they hit it off. They got married and they had a son together. In 1989, they moved to Naples because Pam's father was living out there. They wanted to take care of him and whatnot. But he actually passed away in 2001.

And so the two of them moved back to Missouri. And it was around that time that Pam and Betsy met at the life insurance agency and then you know the rest. Okay. So flash forward about 10 years. Betsy and Pam reconnected. Betsy's going through her cancer treatments and Pam's behind her every step of the way. Now at one point or another, Betsy actually got the news that her cancer was in remission. Hell yeah.

Which was so exciting. Like, I can't even imagine that feeling. So she and Rest decided to have a celebration of life crews with some of their closest friends and family. I'm obsessed with that. And this is the sweetest thing you will ever hear. One of Betsy's dreams in life was to swim with the dolphins. Like she always wanted to do that. That's so pure.

So Russ had it arranged as an excursion for their trip and like surprised her on the cruise. And she got... That's really sweet. Yeah, she got to live out her dream. Aww. So the cruise was all set for November. And in the meantime, obviously Betsy had to keep up with appointments to make sure that everything was A-OK. And unfortunately, at one of those appointments in October.

which was just a month before the cruise they went on, she found out that her cancer was back. Oh, no. Not only back, but it had also spread to her liver. Oh, man. And at that point, she was told that she only had three to five years to live. Oh. Oh, my entire body just chilled. Like, I know I say I can't imagine a lot, but I cannot.

No, that's just not something anybody can even begin to fathom. No, and if I was ever in that position, I feel like I would be like, don't tell me. Like, don't tell me that. I don't, I can't even fathom it. No, horrible. I literally can't. And that was a month before she was going on a celebration of life cruise. Oh.

Like that's what they were calling it. So they still went on the cruise, like I said. Of course. I mean, now it really is a celebration of what you have left here. Oh, yeah. And by all accounts, Russ was, quote, inconsolable. Like, that's how everybody described him. Oh, my heart hurts.

I know. Like, he didn't want to think about living without his wife. No, of course not. It's horrible. But they wanted to make the time, like, that they had left to the best. possible time. And the doctor said it would be okay for Betsy and Russ to go on the cruise. And then Betsy would have to start treatment back up in December. Okay. So that's what happened. But when they got home, things were like not really cheerful because Betsy's appointments were constant and they left

her exhausted. If you have ever gone through chemo or like you know somebody that's gone through chemo, it's off to you for seriously. Getting through it, man. It takes everything out of somebody. Yeah. Just like watching my mom go through. it has been like, you know, it's got ranging. Yeah, it's horrible. But she's doing great now. She is doing great. She is. Hats off to Ma. Yeah. But her friend Pam was there to help. Like I said, she was going to be her rock. She'd drive her to the chemo and then she'd get her settled at home because Russ was working obviously. Pam was actually not working anymore. She was collecting disability. There's like a lot of different reasons why she was collecting disability that have been mentioned.

she had been in like accidents or a work-related injury or lies. But the weird thing was that Pam wasn't really Betsy's closest friend. Like Russ himself was like I can think of at least like a dozen other people that she's closer with. But she was kind of shoehorning herself. Exactly. That's the perfect way to describe that. But I think Betsy was like, you know, like she's trying to help me. And then I think over the time that they were spending together because like I said, Pam would sit with her through the appointments.

and they can be like hours long. Oh, yeah. So I think they were starting to talk more and become closer with each other. And one day, the topic of life insurance was brought up. Oh, no. And Betsy confided in Pam that she was worried about Russ being the beneficiary of her life insurance policy because allegedly she said that she was worried that he would piss it all away. Okay.

And now this is obviously according to Pam. According to Pam, correct. And she could have named her daughters, but she had two daughters. But they were still young at the time, I believe, One was in their early 20s and one was still a teenager. And she was like, you know, I just don't want them to be left with a huge sum of money. Like, can't become dangerous, you know? So Pam said, I am definitely responsible enough to handle such a task.

Oh, yeah. And I will make sure that the money goes to the right places. Oh, who isn't responsible enough to handle a large sum of money? Yeah, absolutely. So on December 23rd, 2011, Betsy and Pam went to the local library together. and they changed the beneficiary of Betsy's $150,000 life insurance policy, naming Pam, the beneficiary. Oh, I just, these kind of things, you're like, no, whenever somebody wants to be the beneficiary of your life insurance, it's no good. The red flags are just shooting out of everywhere.

Like, I want to name somebody who doesn't want to be the beneficiary. Yeah, I want somebody to actively be like, please don't. Or like, yes. Maybe I'll just name somebody. and never tell them. Just give it all to children's hospital or something. Boom. Like, oh, I just, I want to go down there and just be like, no.

I know. Now, apparently they had the librarian at the time be the witness to the change and she copped to that. She was like, yeah, they did. And I was just like, okay, sure, I'll be your witness. Yeah, I mean, like, what are you going to say? Yeah, I think she was like younger too. And she was like, I don't know.

I feel like if I was the librarian, I would also be like, do you want to do that? Maybe you don't want to do this. Like, think about it. The thing that sucks is like, like, if Pam was a good friend, she would know that Betsy was under such heavy medication. And stress. And stress. And just like sadness.

Like you don't make a big decision like that. No, if she was any kind of friend, she would have not taken advantage of this. Absolutely not. No friend would do that. Absolutely not. A friend would sit there and say, you know what? In fact, a friend would have sat there and said, your concerns are valid if that's how you feel. But you know what?

I will be here. I will help make sure that Russ is in. you know, in the right mind, he's going to be upset. But like, I'll be here to kind of support him and make sure that the girls are taken care of. I'll be your friend after this is all over. And I would say, if I was her friend, you should talk to a lawyer about this. Exactly. And I'd be like talk to, talk to your family. Talk to your family. Talk to your lawyer. Have a meeting. Have a sit down. But a friend would sit there and say, it's going to be taken care of.

Right. Don't worry. Right. Not, you know, like, name me. Not, well, I'll take it. Okay. Like, Pam. Oh, how sweet of you to sign up to take $150,000. Yeah. G-gu-wis. Like, wow. What a selfless warrior you are. Such a hero. Now, the problem, too, with this whole entire change room was that nobody knew anything about this change. Betsy didn't tell anybody about it.

Oh, no. And she wouldn't have time to. And unfortunately, this policy would go into effect much sooner than the three to five years that Betsy had been given. Because four days after the change on December 27th, two days after Christmas, 2011, Betsy had a chemo appointment. So she spent the night before at her mom's house because it was closer to where her appointment was. And she had told Pam, actually, that she didn't need a ride from her that day because her mom's friend, Bobby Wan, was going to be taking her and she was going to sit with her throughout the appointment. Now, Bobby was actually Betsy's babysitter back in the day. Oh.

So she was like, oh, you know what? I'm really looking forward to spending some time with her. And her exact text to Pam said, quote, Bobby is going to, excuse me, Bobby is going and I want to spend someone on one time with her. And Pam texted back, bummer. Which I'm like, no, I'm like excited to see my babysitter. Bummer, I can't come to your chemo appointment. Come on. Yeah. You know, you say that's great.

Right. I hope you have a great time sitting and chatting. I hope it distracts you and it's a great time. See you soon. Bummer. Bummer. Like, fuck off. Why are you making this about you?

I was just going to say that's a little bummer for you. Like, okay. That she's going to her chemo appointment. Yeah, I'd be like, yeah, my chemo appointment is a huge bummer. Thanks for the recognition. Now, clearly, because she responded, she received that message. Sure did. usually how that works. But not long after getting that text, Pam showed up at Betsy's mother's

house and acted confused when Betsy wasn't there. And Janet, Betsy's mother said, oh, like Bobby is taking her. I thought she texted you. And Pam was like, oh, I didn't get the text. Bummer. So, bummer. So at that point, if maybe you didn't get that text and you just like had a lapse of time in your life and you thought you didn't get that, at that point you would go, I should go home. Yeah, because it's taken care of. She's at her appointment. They've told me what is going on. Not only has Betsy told me now what's going on, apparently I forgot, but now I've had a second person say, no, no, it's all set. Okay. She didn't do that, though, huh? No, she didn't do that. She actually showed up at the chemo appointment with Bobby and Betsy just like sitting right there. And Betsy was like,

uh, what? Like, I thought I told you that Bobby was taking me today and I wanted to spend someone on one time with her. And like she needs this bullshit drama at her fucking chemo appointment. Exactly. Let the woman sit there and deal like my God. And do what she needs to do. I hate when people make shit about themselves. When it's like when someone else is going through something like that, you're like, just let them have a moment. Let her do whatever she needs to do. Whoever she wants to be with, whoever she, however she wants to do it, just leave her alone. Right. Exactly. She doesn't need her alone. She doesn't need a stage five clinger friend. No, nobody needs a. stage five clinger friend in any part of their life.

Certainly not now. And Bobby said Betsy was quote unquote quite surprised. Yeah. Betsy was like not a meany. She was like, oh, okay, like whatever. Like glad you're here. So the three of them chatted throughout the rest of the appointment. And Pam told Betsy that she would drive her home.

And she was like, okay, well, like you're here. So you fucking might as well. So Betsy thanked Bobby for coming. And she texted her husband Russ because the original plan was that Russ was going to pick her up from her mom's house after the appointment. But it sounds like Pam is not having any of this. No, no, Pam is really like insistent that she be the one to take her home. And she had told her earlier like, oh, you know, it's a longer drive for you.

Like it's going to be an hour round trip. So like it's much shorter for Russ to just take me. And like Bobby's going to, it's all set for today. Like it is all set for today. Yeah. And you know what? I'm assuming because I know this name. I know I don't know exactly the details of what is about to happen here.

I assume something bad is going to happen. here. I just get vibes. I don't know. Probably. And to me, Pam is making this very obvious that she is planning to do something. And I'm like, at what time does your brain go, wow, I'm really, I'm really stretching here. Like, it's not going to look good. Never. Exactly. Pam's brain never says that. Because I'm like, already, I'm like, what are you trying to do? Like, even if I didn't know anything about that. I'd be like, what's, what's Pam up to? Why is she so obsessively doing it? I've never in my life in this obsessive about picking something up from any, someone up from anything. No, like, I don't want to go anywhere ever. No. Pam can't stop, won't stop. Yeah. But she's not rocking to the rhythm. No, she's

doing the exact opposite. So she's like, so she's like, okay, let me text Russ, tell him that he doesn't need to come get me. Like, you're going to bring me home. Thanks so much. What the fuck's going on? So she texted Russ and he's like, okay. Like, sounds good. And then Betsy told Pam on the ride home that she had gotten bad news at chemo that day. Her white blood cell count was low and she needed to rest more. Like the doctors were like, you really need to rest. Because even though she had cancer, she was still like running around doing things.

She was playing tennis. Because she's probably trying to get the most out of every day here. Absolutely. But they were like, you really have to slow down. So around 7 p.m., she called her friend who she was actually supposed to play tennis with the next day. And she was like, I'm so sorry I have to cancel. Like, I got to get some rest. So she canceled that. And then after that call, she and Pam called Pam's husband Mark. And he didn't pick up the phone, but they left him a voicemail. And Betsy sang on the voicemail,

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, like in a sing-song voice. And so that was timestamped. And then finally, Betsy spoke with one of her daughters, who was on the way to upgrade her phone. And she said, oh, mom, like, you have to speak with the people on the phone to kind of authorize the charge. If you If you've ever upgraded your phone, you know the deal. And Betsy was like, oh, yeah, like, I'll be around. Like, I'm just planning on cozying up on the couch and just vibe in. Yeah. So, she was like, okay, cool, like I'll call you when I get there. So Pam got Betsy home, got her settled, and then made her way back to her own home. And Betsy's daughter called from the cell phone store a couple of times and wasn't getting an answer. So Pam also called Betsy on her way home

at 727, and she didn't get an answer either. So at that point, she was worried, that Betsy was upset with her for not like staying longer and hanging out. So she called Betsy's mom, Janet. And she was like, have you heard from Betsy because I can't get in touch with her? Like I just left, but I'm worried that she's mad at me, yada, yada, yada. And Janet was like, oh, no, like I haven't heard from her. But, you know, she did get that news today that she needs to rush. She might just be tired. Maybe she fell asleep. Maybe just leave her the fuck alone for a second. Yeah, like, maybe go home, Pam. So Pam was tired too. And when she got home, she took a shower. and she settled in for the night, heading to bed shortly after.

So Russ, earlier that night, had been home, but he had a weekly game night with his friends every Tuesday, and this was a Tuesday night. He left around 5 p.m. to head to game night. So he missed Betsy by a couple of hours. Now, on his way to game night, he made four different stops, and this is directly from court transcripts. So, quote, from 516 to 520, he stopped to get gas at a Conoco station in Troy, Missouri. From 531 to 532, he stopped to buy cigarettes at U-Gas in Wentzville. At 552, he bought a bag of dog food at Greens County Country Store in Lake St. Louis. And from 556 to 558, he was in O'Fallon, Missouri, quick trip, buying two bottles of iced tea. His first, second, and fourth stops were recorded on camera, and he had a time-stamped receipt from Greens.

Okay. So he finally made it to his friend Michael Corbin's house at around six. p.m. And instead of playing games that night, they used to play like role-playing games, but one of the guys was like sick or something and couldn't come so they didn't have enough players for this certain game, but they still all wanted to hang out. So they were like, oh, like, let's watch some movies. So they watched some movies. They all smoked some weed together. They were just kind of like having a hang sash, and they ended up calling it a night around 9 p.m. Now on the way home, Russ stopped at Arby's for a couple of cheeseburgers. He got two, so I have to assume that he was bringing home one to Betsy.

And he made it home around 940. When he walked inside, he did not find Betsy cozied up on the couch. Instead, he found her slumped over on the living room floor with a knife sticking out of her neck. Holy shit. A knife sticking out of her neck. He immediately called 911. And through sobs, he told the operator that his wife had finally gone. through with something that she had talked about in the past. Suicide. Oh. Now, Betsy, obviously, like we were just saying, has gone through a lot recently. She's diagnosed with a life-threatening disease, given years to live. Obviously, all of that would certainly warrant such deep feelings of depression, so it wasn't shocking that she had made comments or attempts of suicide in the past.

Yeah. But when the first officer, Lincoln County Deputy Christopher Hollingsworth, arrived on scene, he was like, oh, no, no, no, this is a homicide. So he immediately, took Russ Ferrea out of the home. When the fire captain checked Betsy's body, he thought that she probably had to have been dead for at least two hours because the body was cold and extremely stiff. And when he tried to move like her arm, her entire body moved. Oh, wow. Right.

So he was like, yeah, she's definitely been dead like at least two hours. Now, most on scene agreed with him and they were like, oh yeah, like rigormorous definitely set in. And one of them noted that the blood around her body. was dark, so it had clearly been sitting for a little while. They also found another knife underneath a pillow on the couch, and they took note of that, and then they took note that the family dog was chained up outside. But looking closer to Betsy's body, they saw what looks like a paw print on her leg, meaning that the dog must have been inside at one point or another while Betsy was home,

stepped in blood, and then stepped on her leg. Huh. So they took note of that, and then putting two and two together later on in the investigation, they believed that whoever had done this must have known the dog because their family dog was known to not be super friendly to people that he or he or she didn't know. Okay. So they were like, if this person was able to get the dog outside, the dog must have known this person. Yeah.

So Russ immediately was taken to the station for questioning. They noted that his clothing didn't show any signs of blood. And later when they took fingernail clippings and they like checked his clothing, not of Betsy's DNA or any blood was found on his clothing or underneath his fingernails. Okay. There was also no blood in his car when they searched that. All right. So they asked him about his whereabouts for the night.

And he explained that he had worked home that day. He hadn't seen Betsy because she had stayed with her mother and then had her chemo appointment. And that was Tuesday. He explained, you know, that's the night of the week where I go play these games with my friends. We play games. We have a movie night. Whatever. He said, I stopped at a few places.

and, you know, I mentioned earlier, like, that was a lot of places to stop. Okay, thank you. Because I was going to say it earlier and I was like, I don't want to be like two. No, it's a lot of places to stop. It's a lot of place. And if I'm, I don't know. Go off. You know, I'm just saying upon first glance of this, you are always going to look at the person

closest to them, which is the husband. You're always going to look at the person who finds them, which happens to be the husband. And if they were trying to establish an alibi. then they would, they might make that silly mistake of stopping at too many places to get too many things. Again, not saying that this is like a guilty verdict here, I'm just saying. No, of course not. It doesn't help.

Because you're not looking at this through tunnel vision. No. Other people might have. So they were like, okay, but like, why did you stop at like four places for all these things when you, like some of these things, like you stopped at two different gas stations. why didn't you condense? Well, a lot of those things could be done at one place. Like, what were they?

Like, iced teas or something. There was cigarettes. Ice tea, gas cigarettes. That can all be at the same place. And then like dog food. Yeah. So they were like, why so many stops, buddy? And Russ explained that he always bought his cigarettes at the second place he stopped

because they were 60 cents cheaper there. Okay. Fair. Now, when I heard that, I was like, okay, so if the cigarettes are cheaper there and they also have gas, why didn't you just get gas and cigarettes there? I don't know exactly what the explanation. was for that. He might have gotten gas and then was like, oh, shit, I'm out of cigarettes. Also, maybe he was super low on gas and he was like, I got to stop at the first place I hit.

Exactly. Because maybe he was at the point where he was like, I'm on fumes. That's true. Because you know what? I'll just go to any gas station if I'm on fumes. It doesn't matter. And if it's, if he does have that thing where he's like, I just always get my cigarettes here. Yeah. And that makes sense. Sure. And he said the reason why he stopped and got dog food on the way was because, like, they needed it. And the place where they got dog food, they always went to that place because they had a rewards card. Okay.

And they, they, like, had money problems in the past and stuff like that. So he was like, you know, they have a rewards card. Yeah. Cigarettes are 60 cents cheaper. Like, I'm fucking budgeting here, okay? I love my rewards cards for my grocery stores. I am obsessed with my rewards cards. If I don't have it, I, like, panic.

And I would much rather go to, like, Big Y than Roach Brothers. if I have the rewards card for Big Y. Absolutely, because do you know how much money? You save $5 is a lot. It is, and I'll go out of my way. Me too. Yeah. Yeah.

So fair enough. Yeah. The other four men present at Game Night were also questioned, and they all confirmed that Russ had been there the entire time and that he had left when he said he did. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty solid. Pretty fucking solid.

So overall, Russ had been questioned for 10 and a half hours that night. And then the next day, around 2 p.m., they said, hey, would you be willing to take a polygraph test? And he said, absa fucking lootly. So he agreed. And when the polygraph wrapped up, it had determined that Russ had failed the polygraph test. All right. He specifically showed deception when they asked, did you kill Betsy or do you know who did? So right then and there, Russ was arrested for the murder of his wife. Damn. Yep. They were able to hold him in the county jail for the next 24 hours. But when that time was up, they were going to need a sign-off on a probable cause statement to keep him any longer.

Yeah, because they can't just be like, well, you failed a polygraph, so you definitely did it. Like, I think they were hoping that they would get the sign-off on that probable cause and then they would keep him for the whole time. But they did not get the sign off on that probable cause because they just didn't have enough yet. No. Exactly. So Russ was free to go for the time being. Now, the day after Betsy was found murdered, the investigators also wanted to speak with Pam Hup, knowing that she was the last person to see. Betsy alive, or presumably one of the last people.

So investigators got to Pam's house around 6.40 in the morning, and she answered the door with wet hair. Clearly, she had just showered. I mentioned that. She had showered the night before. Because she told them that when she got home the night before, she had also taken a shower. It's very weird to me to take a shower at night and then take one like a couple hours later in the morning.

I'm sure a lot of other people do that. Yeah. In a murder investigation, it makes my ears do that thing. But yeah, it's like ding, ding, ding. Yeah, exactly. Now, while they talked to Pam, she made a, I'll say a couple of conflicting statements when she first spoke with police in this interview. Okay.

She told them at first that she had not gone into the house when she dropped off Betsy. But later on in her story, she said that she did go inside. Now, by that point, they had seen that Pam had called Betsy at that 727. I told you she called her. Yep. And they were like, why did you call her so soon after dropping her off? And Pam first said she called Betsy when she got home. But then later she said, oh, I called her when I was almost home.

And then she said that she actually didn't know the route to Betsy's house back to her own house. So she called Betsy when she made it to the point that she remembered, which she said she was home free at that point. Okay. Now, like, I don't know if this caused your ears to go ding, ding, ding again. It's really interesting to me that she drove. this woman to and from a bunch of chemo appointments, but didn't know the route back to her house from this woman's house. Yeah, like she spends all this time at her house and presumably goes back

to her own house often. Yes. And she doesn't know how to know my like, your guilty senses are tingling. And also like it's 2011 like GPS is a thing. Yeah, sure is. Okay. Yeah. So when they asked about Russ and Betsy's marriage, Pam told them that she actually really didn't know Russ that well. And honestly, she'd be surprised if he was the one who was responsible for doing this. But then she was like, actually, wait a second. Their marriage was like on the rocks. And come to think of it, Betsy told me that she was afraid of Russ recently, actually. And she kept bringing up this quote unquote document.

She kept calling it a document. At one point, she called it an email. But she was like, sorry, I meant document. And they were like, okay. Okay. She said that she would, or excuse me, she said that they would be able to find that document on Betsy's computer. And she said that it described a pretty alarming situation in which Russ had put Betsy in recently.

She said that if they found this document that they should totally try to find, they would read this account from Betsy about Russ putting a pillow over her face while she was sleeping. And when she woke up and began to struggle, he threatened to kill her and said to her, I wanted you to know what it would feel like to die. Oh, I mean, that sounds horrific. if that was the truth. She was like, you guys have to find that document. But that's also like a very far cry from like, I don't really know him well and I don't know

their marriage. But it's like, oh, wait, I actually know this really horrific intimate detail about their marriage that I totally forgot. And they were like, oh, Pam, it's okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's hard to remember that kind of thing. Yeah. So then finally the life insurance policy came up.

And Pam explained, you know, Betsy was worried that Russ was going to spend it all. Her daughters are too young. So she named me the benefit. I don't know. She just named me. And they were like, all right. So once the investigators wrapped up with their questions, they thanked Pam for her time and they headed out. So at that point, the report from the medical examiner had come back. And it was determined that Betsy had most likely been dead for two hours like they thought. And she had suffered 55 stab wounds. Fifty-five? A lot of which were post-mortem because the medical examiner concluded that her heart had

actually stopped pretty early on in the process. Holy shit. Fifty-five times. And these were methodical stab wounds. There were no like, it wasn't like rigid or wiggly at all. Like these were like in-out, in-out, 55 times. And that to me says more leading away from Russ, because if he called and said, I think she did it, like I think she finally killed herself. He would know. If he knew what he had done, if he knew he had inflicted 55 stab wounds on someone, or even 10, then you know that's not going to fly. Like, you know that's not going to fly. Right. You would make up the story of someone came in here and did this.

You wouldn't immediately be like she did it. Oh, she killed herself. Right. So the fact that he went there to me says that he didn't. I mean, it says that likely he didn't, in my opinion. Wow. Yeah. That's brutal.

But when the investigators went over the report, they were like, oh, this was a rage killing. Yeah. And that only made investigators look more toward Russ, especially because of the account that they had heard from Pam about him, like, threatening to kill her. It all leads there. All roads lead back to Russ at this point. And the evidence back at the house didn't help Russ out too much either. His slippers were found in the closet of the master bedroom with Betsy's blood on the tops of

them. There was blood found on a light switch in the master bedroom. And when luminal testing was done on the scene, it showed that someone with blood on their hands had opened the towel drawer in the kitchen. And there wasn't a lot of other areas in the kitchen that showed a lot of luminescence. It was just that kitchen drawer. So it was like clearly somebody knew where the towels were. Yeah, they didn't have to open more drawers. Exactly. It was just going straight there. Exactly. Now, the luminal also showed drips of blood leading to the back patio door. So their suspicion was right. The dog had been in the house and then let out

most likely. Like that's kind of what that picture painted. So there was not any sign of a break in either. And with all those things paired together, all of the suspicion that was already on Russ was like heavily handed on Russ at this point. Yeah. I mean, you tell me there's blood on his slippers in the closet. And on the master bedroom light switch, somebody went to the towel straight to that drawer. Yeah. To me, that doesn't look good at all. Absolutely. And they also said that they had all these pictures. There was like 132 pictures taken of this luminal testing that they had done with Blue Star, but unfortunately, the pictures didn't develop. Huh.

There was a malfunction and they didn't develop. Oh. But Russ was officially arrested on January 4th, 2012, the day after Betsy's funeral. Oh. And his bail was immediately set at $250,000, which they did not have the money to cover. Like, he didn't know anybody that could help him out with that. That's a lot of money. Eek.

He was unable to post it, so he had to wait in the county jail for his trial to begin. So that would be one year, 10 months, and 14 days spent in jail waiting for this trial. Damn. And I mean, that evidence doesn't look good. No, it does not. So Russ's cousin immediately hired him an attorney, Joel Schwartz, who ASAP Rocky began sifting through all the details and the evidence in this case. And Schwartz was shocked that Pam Hup wasn't also being looked into as a suspect.

He said, well, that's the thing. I understand why my client is being looked into. For sure. closest person to her, the evidence is like not awesome, but like, why is he the only person being looked at? Why are we not investigating the last person who probably saw this person alive? That's the thing. Like, why are we solely focusing on the husband? Yeah. Because Pam had at that point made multiple conflicting statements. Again, she was the last person to see Betsy alive. She had no alibi for the time that Betsy would have been being killed other than driving home or nobody could

see her. Yeah. And she had just become the beneficiary of Betsy's life insurance four days before Betsy was murdered. Well, that alone and the lies and the different stories, it's like that, that should give you at least a little bit of like, pause. Let's look into this because also, and obviously, like, we know how it turns out, but it's like, also, how do you know they're not working together? Thank you. Maybe start talking to her and see, especially when she's like, I don't know him. Right. What? Right. Like, I'd be like, all right, we need to look at her. Exactly. In my mind, I would look at this and be like, well, she was really shoehorning herself into Betsy's life. Uh-huh. Like, maybe they are working.

together. Maybe they're having some kind of affair. Yeah. They were trying to get rid of Betsy sooner. You should, I mean, as investigators, they should be thinking this way. Like, any possibility. Definitely out of the box and being like, like you said, if you're really trying to be in this person's life, maybe there's something else you're trying to get. You know, and if you're getting the money from this, that's a huge thing. And maybe you're getting the money because you know you want to move in the house. Absolutely. That's what I would have thought looking at this right away. Yeah. But they didn't feel that way. And for one reason or another, Pam's clothes. was never tested.

They never took anything. Her car wasn't tested. And then Joel was like, there's all this evidence that they're trying to pin on Russ. Let's look a little further into all of this. For sure. The bloody slippers did not have blood on the bottoms of them. And there was not any bloody prints from these slippers found at the scene. So when Schwartz saw the slippers for himself, it actually looked like they had been dipped

in blood. There was no presence of blood splatter on them. Huh. No blood, like, you can Google a picture right now, actually. No blood splatter, just like a large blood stain on the top of each one. Okay. So, blood splatter would certainly be present on those most likely if he had stabbed her 55 times while wearing those shoes. So Schwartz was like, okay, that's weird. And then he turned his attention to the polygraph test that Russ allegedly failed. And he wondered why Russ would have been given a polygraph test after having been up for 36 hours and they knew full well. that he had smoked weed with his friends that night. Oh, yeah. He's not in his right frame of mind.

What kind of examiner would just administer a test to somebody under those conditions? That's true. He said, hey, can I have the audio and the video from that polygraph test? And he was told that the video camera was broken. Wow. So not only has the camera broken with the luminal testing on it. It's also broken with this polygraph test. You guys should like really get a fundraiser going to get to new equipment.

I was just going to say, should we throw you a gala on? We do a car wash? A charity masquerade ball to get you some cash here? Like, do you guys need some help? Why is all your shit falling apart? Try a go fund me. I'm no expert, but I feel like these things are pretty imperative to an investigation. And if they're literally always failing.

One might say, get some new shit. Get some new shit. Get some new shit. So he was like, okay, did they do a faux polygraph test? Because that's actually legal. but you need to put a report that it was a faux polygraph, not a real one. And he found no such report. And he, like, asked around and they were like, nah.

So Russ informed his attorney that he had also offered to take a second polygraph test. He was like, you know, my wife had been murdered like 36 hours before that. So I might have been a little nervous. Yeah. I was still pretty nervous, but I was like, you know, give me a second chance. For sure. And all of the people that he was with that night, his friends were like, we'll take a polygraph. Oh, wow.

But the prosecuting attorney, Leah Askey Cheney told them, no, no, no, that's not necessary. We have exactly what we need. So. I'm sorry. People are literally offering up being like, this can help. Like, I'll take a polygraph. I will help you in any way. So you're happy to take the botched failed polygraph as evidence of a crime.

But you're not willing to take people literally offering up to prove an alibi. No. Okay. Because they were seedy characters because they smoked weed. Come on, man. Like, come on. So Russ is trial. Like you said role playing games, they were probably doing like Dungeons and Dragons.

Thank you. It's like, is it like Trail, Trailman? Trailman? Talisman. Talisman? Is that the role playing game? I don't know. But it's probably not Trailman.

But I would imagine it's talisman sounds like it would be in that like genre. Yeah, I think when I was reading about the games they played that was one of them. Yeah, that makes sense. It wasn't like important enough to write down. No, but it's like, it sounds like that's what they were doing. That's exactly what they were doing. Roll play games. That's not like...

Oh, and sweetie, that will come back later. Don't worry. The role playing games. Okay. So Russ's trial began November of 2013, and Leah Askey Cheney was the prosecutor on the case. And her argument was that Russ had a temper and that he and Betsy fought often because Betsy's daughter's testimony did confirm that they did have frequent arguments. One of their daughters said it was not the Brady Bunch.

All right. But, you know, like, arguments happen in a marriage. But, you know, when you're looking at it through this lends, it's like, oh, shit. When one of you was murdered and there's evidence that could point that way, you got to look at it. Relevant. So Leah Askey Cheney believed that the reason there was no blood on Russ's clothing was because he had had sex with Betsy before killing her. And she felt this way because during the autopsy, they were able to confirm that eight sperm cells had been found in Betsy's body. So there's also an argument to be said on the other side that sperm can stay in the body for 72 hours.

And Russ had said that they were intimate together on Sunday. So this is Tuesday. It makes sense that there's still eight sperm in her body. Makes sense. Also, like, what a bummer that, like, you get murdered and then, like, this is the kind of shit that has to be, like, aired out. It just sucks. And it's like, you need to know, like, the last time they were intimate together.

Yeah. Of course, you need to know that. It's very, it's relevant. But it just really sucks. But you just, like, are like, man. Like, if I passed away, I would not want people to know. the last time I had sex. Yeah, it just kind of sucks.

I know it's necessary, but like, I was going to say, again, very relevant to what's going on if it helps or, you know, but man, that sucks. But in this one, it, like, really doesn't help because it's like, this is not black and white. This is like they could have had sex on Sunday or they, like, it could have been what Leah said. Like, he had done it one last time before killing her. Yeah. And she said that he was angry with Betsy and he still thought that he was the beneficiary of

her life insurance policy. he was going to kill her. And she said that he had been planning this for months with all of those friends from game night because this would be, quote unquote, the ultimate role play. I knew you were going to go there. That's so fucked up. Yeah. She painted a picture for the jury that Russ got this idea, presented it to all of his friends,

and they were all in. They were like, let's role play murdering your wife. What the fuck? Mm-hmm. So. I just don't like when they bring that shit. into it. It's like, I'm sorry. Like any Dungeons and Dragons player that I know is a lovely person. Uncle Billy. Uncle Billy. Hello. Shout out to Uncle Billy. I did role-playing stuff in high school. So,

like, I was all about that shit. So I can't, that's shitty. It sucks. Just put that directly, because that's what they like to do in their leisure. Yeah, exactly. So when they were all in for this ultimate role play, they were like, we have to wait for the perfect time to do this. And Leah said, well, that would have been the perfect night because Pam was bringing Betsy home. And she said that Russ pretended like he was going to Game Night, made a bunch of stops so that he would be caught on surveillance camera because he knew that he would be, which like that really sucks because he did make a lot of stops. He did. And when he got to Game Night, he left his phone with his friends and then drove back home to kill Betsy after having sex with her to quote unquote control her one last time. Now, once he killed her, she said he took a shower.

got all the blood off of him, changed into those clothes, or back into the clothes that he had been wearing, let the dog out when he saw that the dog had made the paw print on her, like, got him away from the body, quickly cleaned up and called 911. And when he was on the phone with 911, she said that he realized his slippers had blood on them, so he tossed them in the closet, not realizing that he had left blood on the light switch in the process. And during all of that, before he called 911, one of his friends came back with his phone and a receipt from Arby's that he tossed in the car so it would look like he had this perfect alibi. Okay.

It's a good argument. Part of that is a good argument. Yeah, some of it. Some of that I'm like, all right. Yeah, that could have 100% happen. My main thing here is like the friends. Like what's their role besides just like being right there? Well, thank you.

Like you're saying they all plan this together, but it doesn't sound like the friend. The friends are just like, we'll bring your phone back to you and get some Arby's to establish your alibi. Why? Why would they agree to that? Like, that's a weird. It's because role play. Like, he would be like, I'm going to murder my ailing wife. Yeah. And you guys are just going to buy some Arby's for me. And they were like, yeah, this sounds great. Yeah. That's not, no. Well, I'm glad you feel that way. I don't see that way. I don't see that one. I'm very glad you feel that way. Because Russ's lawyer felt that way too. And he was stunned at how far fetched that part of it was. Yeah, that part just doesn't connect for me. Because she had just implemented. four people in a murder case where they were only prosecuting one person. Right. If that was the case, why would they not be, like, prosecuting the other three people as, uh, fucking, like, attachments to the crime?

Like, what is the worst? I'm so angry. Accomplices. Attachments. Attachments. Like, it's a PDF and we're just making an attachment. You've been charged as being an attachment to a crime. Like, well, that's, and you're, you're literally making up a narrative for them.

You're saying that they stopped at Arby's. They didn't, you have no proof of this. You have camera footage that says that? Like, why is it? Well, that's the other thing. I'm like, Arby's definitely has a security camera. You can't just bullshit and say it was them unless you have something to back. You bring out receipts.

Oh, and they don't have any because they didn't even bother to map out all the towers that Russ's cell phone would have pinged. They didn't have that done. Yeah, see, and that's just sloppy. They also didn't look into Pam's cell phone activity that night either. Yeah, the fact that they're just straight up ignoring this woman. Tunnel vision. is really wild to me because again, if you are now, and here's the thing, you have implicated

three other people who are just playing D&D by all accounts, have no actual physical or even circumstantial evidence to suggest that they weren't. No. Except for you being like, oh, they offered you a polygraph, so they probably did it. Like what? And one of the men there that night was actually like somebody's nephew. you and they were like, I read this really great article that I'm going to link in the show notes. And the woman who wrote it was like, why would this random guy's nephew be like, yeah, totally.

I just showed up here for game night. Let me help you murder your wife. Right. That's like. And that's, so there's that. So you're ready to implicate these four, you know, role playing dudes for no reason without any evidence. Yeah. But there is ample evidence to suggest that Pam Hup is at the very least fucked up with her relationship

to Betsy. Yeah. And has lied, been caught in different stories. has motive being the beneficiary of the newly changed life insurance. And you're not willing to think that maybe they teamed up. But instead you're going to say that he teamed up with four of his D&D friends to do it. Yeah. Why does that make sense?

Why wouldn't you just do the same shit you're doing to these guys? Do it to Pam. Exactly. Now just claim that she stopped at Arby's and shit. Like just make that whole thing up. Right. Like you at least have a little more to go on. Honestly, you'd probably get further with.

that one because I'm pretty sure she did it. Thank you. You would get further. But they never bothered to look into any of her shit. That's really wild. Now luckily, Schwartz had the idea like let's bring a fucking expert in to who can map out, not Pam's because we can't just get her phone. But we can at least get Russ's like phone pings.

So he brought in Greg Chatton of forensic computer services who was an expert. And he testified that at 9.25 p.m. Russ's phone was 10 miles from his home. and his phone showed that he arrived to him at 937 and called police at 940. Okay. Which is perfect. Like, it makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. Now, with that time frame, Schwartz said, Russ would have had nine minutes to do everything that the prosecution had laid out. That's not a lot of time. Nine minutes. And because Pam had quote unquote, no direct connection to the case, Schwartz was not able to bring up the fact that her phone's locations that night had

never been mapped out. He was not able to present the life insurance payout to her as a possible motive for her to kill Betsy or anything that would have implicated her as the killer because Leah Cheney made it so that he couldn't bring any of those things up because they weren't looking for other possible suspects. This was Russ's trial. Wow. Yeah. That's wild because it's like I can understand why Russ was looked at. Absolutely. I can understand why a trial happened. Absolutely.

They could even, you know, the fact that he didn't know that he wasn't the benefit. issueary anymore is not great for him because like you said it makes it look like he was trying to get the money they had some financial stuff going on he even mentioned like we have a rewards card here i'm frugal so i wanted to go there like you know a payout would have been a change yep so i get why that is at least a thought and everyone said i totally understand that you got to look at pam too you got to look at this as maybe i'm not saying they are i'm just saying like they should have looked at it as a team at least, at the very least. At the very least. But also, how would this man have murdered his wife and not had a single shred of his wife's DNA on him? Well, that's, yeah, that's shocking. That's shocking.

What? And it's like, I don't think he had, like, a hazmat suit. No, probably not. They didn't find one. Yeah. But like I said, like, Schwartz wasn't able to bring up anything that would have pointed to Pam as a suspect. But he did file for a motion to ask her about the life insurance while the jury was out of the room. Because at the very least, like, the judge had this knowledge. Absolutely. but it didn't really matter because the jury didn't get to hear about it. And Pam had a doctor sign off that she was unable to do a polygraph test because of that random medical condition that was never named. And it affected her memory. And she didn't know what it was called.

She was like, I don't know what it's called. I don't know what it's called. She also said at one point in time that it was menopause. That was the reason why her memory was so fucked up. Which like fair, but like that's, you can't testify about that. That can't get you out of a polygraph. Yeah. It's like, I'm sorry. That doesn't justify murder.

No. It's like, it's truly mind-boggling. So she didn't do a polygraph. She didn't do any of that. When she got asked about the life insurance money, the jury was out of the room. So it literally didn't matter. And when Schwartz asked her in front of the jury about her multiple inconsistency, she just blamed that memory loss.

Oh, wow. This is a convenient medical issue. Yeah, it's crazy. So in his closing argument, Schwartz told the jury that, no, this actually wasn't a rage killing. it was set up to look like one. He reminded them that there were no irregularities in the stab wounds. He reminded him that his client had an alibi and that the timeline the prosecution was trying to set up simply wouldn't have been possible.

Yeah, and they just fucking made it up. They literally just made it up that like, I can't believe they just like made up. And they were allowed to just conjecture about what happened. Right. Like they literally like just like pulled it out of the air. Like I understand like theorizing about what could have happened. Sure. But involving people who aren't on trial and conjecture.

that they had a very heavy hand in this with no evidence to that fact at all is like really wild. And how is that not defamatory? Well, that's, I'm like, how were you allowed to do that? How did you get away with that? Just wait. Oh, man. But the jury, a lot of them on, on the jury, a lot of the people said, you know, it just seemed weird to us that he had that airtight alibi and made so many stops and we couldn't get past that. I get it. I get it. And then they have all this evidence. I do. I get it. I wouldn't be able to say either way.

Yeah. So they did. deliberated for four and a half hours. And when they came back, they convicted Russ of first-degree murder. Wow. And with that, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for the murder of his own wife. Holy shit. And Pam Hup got her money. I would have honestly thought there was going to be like a hung jury or something. I would absolutely think so. With all of that, I understand why they were looking at it and saying, I can't 100% say he didn't do it. But I would have been like, I also can't 100% say he did. But they're saying they have all this luminal testing and like they testified, you know, like the camera didn't develop. But like I'm an officer and I'm testifying to you that

I saw this with my own eyes. I know. I can see why that would sway people. But like me, I would be like, yeah, I can't sign off on this. Like I can't say beyond reasonable doubt either way. No, of course not. And that's where we're going to wrap for part one. But part two is coming like, sat. Part two is literally coming out like probably tomorrow. Yeah. Like, so you only have to wait like 12 hours. I have like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have so much to tell you in this too. Oh, man. Like, this is, and it's so sad. It's so sad because nobody wins except Pam. That's the thing. And it's like, what the hell? Why the hell does she get to win? She doesn't. She doesn't. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. I think you could realize that she doesn't. No, she better not. But part two's coming,

so we hope you keep listening. And we hope you. Keep it. Wee. Wee. But not so weird that any of this is yours. I don't know. Not so weird that you just like make shit up and bring like four random dudes into a murder trial for no reason. Yeah, don't do that.