Morbid - The Murder of Jennifer Corbin- Part 1

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

When Gwinnett County sheriff’s officers responded to a call about a shooting at the home of Dr. Barton Corbin on the morning of December 4, 2004, they discovered the body of the doctor’s wife, Jennifer Corbin, dead from what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Within a few days, however, investigators learned some things about Bart Corbin that led them to believe that the thirty-three-year-old mother of two may not have taken her own life. Thank you so much to David White for research assistance :)References:Atlanta Journal Constitution. 2006. "Timeline of events in Barton Corbin's case." The Atlanta Journal Constitution, September 17.Bentley, Rosalind. 2004. "Corbin arrest is 'hard'." The Atlanta Journal-Constituion , December 23.Bentley, Rosalind, and Lateef Mungin. 2006. "Barton Corbin case: How they nailed him." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, September 17.Bentley, Rosalind, Lateef Mungin, and Beth Warren. 2006. "Guilty guilty: Corbin pleads." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, September 16.Bruner, Tasgola Karla. 2004. "The Corbin case: Med-school girlfriend was fearful." Atlanta Journal-Constitution, December 16.—. 2004. "Parallels revive case of Augusta tragedy." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, December 13.—. 2004. "Similarities in 'suicides' are haunting ." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, December 16.Bruner, Tasgola Karla, and John Ghirardini. 2004. "Dentist main 'focus'." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, December 13.Glatt, John. 2007. The Doctor's Wife: A True Story of Marriage, Deception and Two Grusom Deaths. New York, NY: St. Martin's Press.Hansen, Jane. 2006. "Dolly's truth: To her family, her death in 1990 was never a mystery." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, October 15.Mungin, Lateef. 2004. "Dacula man sought after wife's shooting." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, December 8.—. 2004. "Death called homicide, not suicide." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, December 8.—. 2004. "Dentist's kin to testify before grand jury today." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, December 15.Rankin, Bill, and Bill Topry. 2005. "Corbin faces double danger." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, January 9.Stafford, Rob. 2006. Death and the Dentist. October 18. Accessed June 25, 2023. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15253153 Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. It's morbid and it's a bonus one with No ads. Ad free, motherfucker. That's right. There will be no interruptions in this story because we just love you. Well, don't say that because I interrupt a lot. It's actually like my profession. Well, no ad interruptions. But you know what? We just love you guys and we decided that this is a fun little subject that I decided to research. So we were feeling generous. I feel more generous in spooky season than I do during like the holidays. I know. It's like it's just that kind of season. It's the most wonderful time of the year. But it's because it's spooky. It's true. So I'm feeling

very giving. So you're talking to us about what today? Well, speaking of spooky season, we're going to talk about the origins of our Halloween. What? And how it began with Sowan. You mean Sam Hain? Which looks like Sam Hain. And honestly, Sam Hain sounds spookier for some way reason. Doesn't Sam Hain sound like a spooky celebration? Sam Hain, to me, personally, sounds super spooky, but I think Sowan sounds like spookier.

Sown does sound spooky. But I don't know. Sam Hane, I've heard it so much because people often pronounce that, that I think I've attributed it with spooky season so much that like it threw me off when I realized it wasn't pronounced that way. get that. But it's pronounced Sowan. So that's something for everybody to know. And let's just chat about it. We're just going to chat about some of like, you know, where it came from, some of the traditions, how it became what we know it today in America, especially. So this all kind of began. It's obviously

a pagan holiday. And it began with like the druids. And the druids, the druids, the druids are kind of rad. I mean, a lot of people are like, but didn't they sacrifice humans? But like, oh, lot of religions did. Yeah, I mean. And, you know, there's a lot of like, I feel like there's a lot of misconceptions. It was of the times. It certainly was of the times. I mean, they wouldn't do it today. Yeah, no. That I don't think so. But what druids were, where they were like a mishmosh of things, like they weren't just religious leaders. They were scientists, scholars. I mean, they were like community leaders. They were a mix of everything. Like, Anything you can think. They wore many hats.

Hair stylists. Exactly. Hair stylists. Some stir, I'm sure. But yeah, they wore many hats, many hairs, you know. Wigs. Now, we're going to go back 2,000 years ago. We're back.

So we're going to take a little hot back. That's all. So this is when Celtic people in Europe. And this was what we know to be Ireland, Scotland, the UK, like some of the pieces of northern Europe. That's what we're really talking about. They celebrated the end of the harvest season in the start of a new year with a festival called Sawin. And this translates literally to summer's end.

Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So their year was divided into four big holidays back then. And Sowin marked November 1st, which was the beginning of winter. And this is when shit got really rough and they had to bring livestock closer to home. some of their animals weren't going to survive during the winter. I mean, they had to harvest those crops. They had to get everything ready for it because it was kind of like the end of the world, basically.

I was going to say, like, some of them were going to survive through the winter. Yeah, they didn't know what was going to survive. So this really was like a dark time. And it's the end of the year in the beginning of a new one. So it was a duality of death and rebirth because the deaths of the year and the death of the year into a rebirth of a new year, but also the death of harvest season in the beginning of a harsh, cold winter. Right.

So it was all mixed duality of death and rebirth. The Celtic year was divided into two parts. Okay. There's the dark part of the year and the light part of the year. The spooky part of the year. The deck. So the year, the Celtic year, was also kind of like punctuated by four fire festivals. They also had solstices and equinoxes, which were about, you know,

the long days and short days. So obviously, like we said, Sam Hain, Sam Hain, Sowan, sorry, I read it phonetically. Sowan. Sowan was when the dark half of the year began. So it's spooky in and of itself. It's like Sowan ushers in the dark part of the year. Okay, the dark part of the year is my favorite. And I don't, this is a potentially dumb question because like time zones didn't exist back then, I don't think, or like the way that we like turn the clocks back. But it does get a little darker, right? Earlier and stuff? Yeah, it's like how that goes. Yeah, because I mean... So is that part of the reason why it was the darker part of the year? Yeah, and I think it was just like the darker part because winter is coming and winter tends to just be darker in of itself, like cloudy and gray and all that.

It's like out of summer, which is the bright part of the year and the spring, which is the bright part of the year. The dark part is the best part. It truly is. So in 43 AD was when the Romans conquered much of the Celtic lands in their traditions and autumn festivals started fusing with the Druid festivals. Okay. So all these, they were going to keep some of them, but they were going to fuse them with the Roman stuff. So now the Roman goddess Pomona was the goddess of fruit and trees, the Roman goddess.

And one such Roman festival that honored her was fused with some of the Sowan druid festivals. It was the fusing and observances that eventually led to Halloween that we know. So this whole fusing of, you know, festivals was how we got our Halloween. Yeah. It wasn't just the original Salin. It's like the mix. It's a little, and a little medley. A shortness board.

We took a little bit from here. We took a little bit from there. And then we totally bastardized it. But, you know, it's okay. We get what we get. And we don't get upset. So it's worth noting that sometime in the late 19th century is when they decided that Saoen would, that's when they decided that Saoan was marking the beginning of the Celtic year.

They got this idea, apparently because Julius Caesar said in book six of the Golic Wars, something about the Gauls, quote, they keep birthdays and beginning of months and years in such an order that follows, that day follows the night. So this statement was interpreted to mean that Saoan was the Celtic beginning of the year because Saoan begins the dark half of the year. Of course, this is just speculation because we can't just ask Julius what he meant by. that. Why not? But another thing that adds intrigue to this idea of Sowan beginning the Celtic year is the discovery in 1897 of something called the Caligney calendar, which is from Gall culture. And it's relevant because it has something marked in the month called Trinix Sammo. And researchers and archaeologists think that this is a nickname for the Trinuction Seminios, which is three-night

observance of Samanios, which is supposedly a three-day holiday that's pretty similar to Sowan. And it's observed in the middle of the first month. So the whole New Year idea is a little questionable because of that. Yeah, that kind of like that throws that off. Yeah. It's the whole like that it's celebrating the new year. That does throw it off a little bit.

But it's interesting nonetheless. Yeah. It's always interesting to see like where they come up with this stuff and then like that they'll find something little that will kind of throw it off. Well, shit. And you're like, do? Do any of us know anything? No.

Like it's just, we're all just relying. Whoa. You okay? I went to like put my hands up to whisper into the microphone and I just punched the table. I was just going to say. That's so sawin of you. Yeah, I was just going to say that it's all a simulation. It is.

It's all a simulation. But you know what? Archaeologists and like anthropologists and stuff? I'm like, good on you, man. That would be such a fun job. You guys are the one we rely on. It is cool. But either way, Salon, that was just a little detour I wanted to take.

But either way, Sowan was huge. And it was also the time of the year when the wall, this was like how everybody knows it, the wall between the living and the dead seemed to fall away and that veil thins quite a bit. I'm ready for it. So the veil between the world of the living and the spiritual realm is barely there. This is when the souls of those who died during the year are traveling to that other realm. So during the year, whoever died, this is when they were going to be making their way over to the spiritual realm, which means they're going to be passing through ours. to get there. So it kind of causes, you know, metaphysical chaos everywhere. And humans could just hang out and have coffee with your dead relative if you really wanted to. And the spirits are known

to, you know, they're fine, but they can be a little mischievous. Oh, yeah. When I'm a spirit, I'm about to mischief the fuck out of everything. Yeah, I mean, you can really fuck some shit up when you're a spirit. So why not do it? Because what are the consequences? What else are you going to do? You're dead. So these sudden shenanigans were celebrated, but also kind of kept at bay because they wanted, they were fine for shenanigans, but they didn't want anything getting dangerous, which could happen. So they were kept at bay by offering and sacrificing, you know, animals sometimes, also offering food like crops and veggies and fruits and anything that they were able to harvest during the year they would offer. But it's like, it's not so bad that they did the animal thing because they thought that

then those animals were just going to go to the afterlife. They definitely did it with the intention that, you know. A good intention. Yeah. I mean, it's not good. I'm not down for it, but like, you know, this was a long time ago, so I can't really get mad of people. But people also played trick, like people, like physical people also played tricks and

got into mischief because they were able to blame the spirits and other whimsical creatures that were said to be roaming around. So on this night, the Kalich, which is also known as the crone and she's like the goddess of this time. Oh. Comes to and she strips the leaves from the trees. Oh, okay. So that's why we lose all the leaves.

She's taken a long time this year. Now she does this because she wants to hasten the, she wants to hasten the decay of the year. Okay, okay. So she's trying to really, really get rid of all the life that has brewed throughout the summer and the spring and she's bringing us into that dark ass decaying time. I like her. And what that is for, at first you're like, wow, that's dark as fuck. But her reason for this is that it's supposed to encourage new life and rebirth.

Yeah, it's perfect. Because you strip everything down so that it can be rebuilt again. So there is a nice little thing. The goddess, she's a scary bitch. But she's also like, I'm trying to help you out. I love her. I'm here for her. She's very metal.

She's very metal. The crone is metal. Like, real metal. Good band name we call it. The crone. That's an awesome one. But you can also ask her during this whole festival in this time, you can ask the crone or the goddess or the Kalich to take any of the unwanted things that happened to you during the year, like your personal grievances, she can take them away. And she can transform them into something anew.

I love that. It's not nice. So you can be like, you know what, I had a real shitty year. And, you know, like my finances were problems or like, you know, the crops were not great. Yeah. And she'll take those worries from you. and she will try to transform them into something good. I love the idea of that.

I think that's really cool. It's a nice thought. Well, one cool thing that really, this was a giant part of Sam Hain. No, Sowan. No, no, Sowan. Guys, I keep reading it phonetically on the page, and it's tripping me up.

At least you can read. But I know it's Sowan. Sometimes I do listener tales and I'm like, well, you know, Sowan. You got it. It's okay. Sam Hain, Sown, we all get it. It's okay.

But one cool thing about Sallon was that they did, there was tons of lighting of bonfires. That was like a really big part of it. Love bonfires. And this whole thing was done because it was aiding and offering something to the sun god because you wanted to beg his ass to come back next year. Hell yeah, you do. Because you were like, I know you are on your way out and then we're going to lose everything

now and everything's going to die. But like, please come back, sun god. Yeah. And they were like, please don't starve us all. But mostly it was done to honor the dead and to light their way back to the spiritual realm. So you lit these bonfires to be. like, here you go. This is just gorge. It's such nice thoughts. There's a lot of cool little things that you're like, that's nice. This is honestly like whimsical in a met. It's metal whimsy. It is.

Metal whimsy. It's like it's mimsy. Or weddle, if you will. I like mimsy. Middle or whimsy. So these fires acted kind of as like a runway to guide the spirits to where they needed to go. And it was also a way to deter them from taking detours to fuck with your shit. Because they couldn't see that way. Yeah, because they were like, here, this is the way to go. Like, don't take a detour over to my farm and fuck with my world. Like, just go over here. They were just like, come on, vote.

And during this, people would sometimes dress in costumes. And they did this to try to blend in with the spirits and blend in with the creatures that they said would come about during this time of year. And they thought that this would keep them safe from being harmed by them. So if I dress as a ghost, they're going to think I'm a ghost, so they're not going to fuck with me. If I dress as a fairy, they're going to think I'm a fairy, so they're not going to fuck with me. So it makes sense. That's why I was a dead bride for three years in a row when I was a child. So a dead bride wouldn't fuck with you.

No. Exactly. I was a mad scientist one year. So mad scientist wouldn't fuck with me. Yeah. So some others would dress up like them and go to houses to collect the offerings left at houses for the dead. Because they were like, I'm hungry. Because people, and we'll get into it.

it, but people would leave offerings outside of their house for the spirits passing by. So they were really into like appeasing these spirits and these like fairies and, you know, leprechauns and like all kinds of other creatures that they believed roamed the earth up this time. They would leave stuff out there and be like, don't bother us, just take this chicken. Like, so it's fine. It's reticery. So these real people would dress up in these costumes to fuck with the living and go take the offerings left for the other worldly creatures.

So you're taking the spirit's offerings. I feel like that's not going to end real well for you. It's really not. Now, this was called mumming, the dressing up and, like, disguising yourself. It was also called, like, guising. And it's likely the start of the tradition that we now think of as trick-or-treating. Because we dress up, go housed out. They would also light torches and walk around the perimeters of their property to ward off the spirits.

So it was a really busy time, too. It's a lot of fire. You couldn't just hang out. You had to constantly be warding off these other ones. worldly creatures and spirits. Now, like I said, honoring your ancestors and the dead was really paramount to this festival that was like really important to it. Many Irish and Scottish Celts would do something called a dumb supper. And I believe a lot do this still today. Oh, really? And it's nice. What is it? On the eve of Sowan, they had a dinner. And this was a silent dinner,

a very somber, very silent dinner in remembrance, in honor, in respect. And the dinner would also have an extra place at the head of the table. And this was for your ancestors who had passed away. And it was a full place setting with food, be served an entire dinner, everything that everybody else was eating. But you had to serve this place setting without ever looking at the seat. Oh, shit. What happens if you did?

Then it was really bad luck because you're not supposed to look at the spirits. And after this silent dumb dinner, the plate and not dumb, like I'm saying it's dumb, it's literally called dumb. Yeah, yeah. Dumb supper. After this silent dumb dinner. After this dumb ass dinner. No, it's called dumb supper, I promise.

I know the spirits are like, dumb dinner, motherfucker, really? They're like, I don't care if you didn't look at me. You called the shit dumb. I don't know, you called the shit dumb. But after this dinner, the plate with the clearly untouched food was... Not clearly, Elena. Well, it would always be full. And it would be, this dinner would be taken out into the woods and left as an offering.

So there was many steps to this. You know how like when you're not supposed to do something, you just want to do it, like so bad? I have such bad luck. Oh, I would have so much. Yeah, I'd constantly be trying not to look at that seat. I'd be like, who's over there? Are they eating their pork? Like, it would freak me up.

If not, can I have? I'd be like, holy shit, are you going to finish that asparagus? I really want it. Of all the things you could eat, you picked pork and asparagus. Do you want a buttered roll? Can I have your crust? roll. So during this whole thing, people would also leave dog food and like pet food outside to honor those beloved pets who had gone before. My heart. And people still do this today. And it also

is nice because it's like other animals that are roaming around will eat that too. So you're just kind of doing a nice thing. I'm going to say you're setting yourself up to get a lot of strays. You sure are. But you know what? It's lovely. It's sweet. So interestingly, it's not just ancestors that come through this thinned veil on Sowan, like we said. It's according to the Library of Congress American Folklife Center, quote, on that day, all manner of beings were abroad. Ghosts, fairies, and demons. Diamonds! Diamonds! They all part of the dark and dread. So it could be one, ancestors coming to be like, hello, thank you for that ham bone that you left me. Or it could be, A diamond.

That's like, hello. Hello. Hello. I'd like some extra crescent rolls, motherfucker. And he holds up his three-fingered hand. And you stick the crescent roll right on there. And then you go, here you go. And then he says, thank you.

Thanks. Thank you. And then he poofs into a plume of black smoke. But only if you've cooked a crescent roll. Oh, yeah. Perfectly. Only if it's a buttered one and only if it's a buttered one, and only if you've cooked it correctly.

Because if he pulls that off his three-pronged hand and it's doughy, he's coming back. Oh, see, I like the doughy ones. Oh, no, damans don't want stomach aches. So they don't want that, like, undercooked shit. My life is just a way. Exactly. And they don't want to live like that. They're like, no.

I'm a diamond. All daimons have IBS. So they're all like. Does that mean I'm a daemon? So they are like, give me a cooked food. Thank you. Let's not aggravate this. Yeah, I haven't got it.

that down yet. So yeah, so especially, and you know, Ireland is very much like known for the legends of fairies and like the Fay Folk, which we've covered in a couple of episodes like dark fairies. So the Knight of Sowan was also the great sabbat for witches. Us. They would gather and celebrate. They would, you know, dance around and cast spells and they tell fortunes that were just rad. Oh, they looked great. They did. They looked awesome. So stories tell also. that you could see on that night, you could see witches flying through the air on their broomsticks. It me. You would see all kinds of, all manner of like magical creatures and familiars, like black cats and

ravens and all kinds of cool things. Basically everything you want. I just think about it. I'm like, ooh! I am literally giddy. I'm so giddy. I'm like, oh, my God, I can bring Lux. I'm like, oh, what a great sabot.

So, sabas. So I wish you just seen Elena's hand. Ooh, sobates. I'm so excited. So there's also, you know, the queen of the witches for that night. You. Who was me? It was either, some people think it was the Irish Morgan, which was also called the Morgan Lafay.

Which like, what the fuck? She's a popular girl in school that will not let you set at her table. Oh, yeah. Morgan Lafay will fuck you up. Has a burn book about you. Yes. She will create a chat room just to invite you in it so she can bully you with her friends. I saw Morgan LaFleigh wearing army pants and flipflops, so I got army pants and flip flops.

That is Morgan LaFay. So, yeah, it's either Morgan LaFay, which I would like it not to be at this point. Or it's, which this one's awesome. Or it could be the blue-faced hag of winter. That's that really cool artsy girl that like got made fun of in high school, but now she's like really rich because she paints great things. See, I'm into the blue-faced tag of winter. The Kailich, which is also the goddess, the crone.

She's known for a lot of things. I dig her. She's where it's at. Yeah, the crown is where it's at. Now, fairies return for the winter. And legends say that if you lost a family member to a fairy during the year, because that was a thing. Like, I think we talked about it in the fairy episode that, like, you know, fairy rings were a thing. And oftentimes, you know, people would go missing and they'd attribute it to fairies.

That's the best. Or somebody would change a lot and they'd think that they were replaced by a fay. You never know. It's really cool. Of Faye. Yeah, O'Fay. So if you lost your family member to a fairy or a fairy ring during the year,

this was the night that you could win them back. Ooh. Or so. What do you got to offer? Well, you got to offer a lot. And you really got to be tricky. And you got to try, you know, this is when people would dress up and try to get, you know,

blend in and all that good stuff. I think there's an episode about, in Sabrina the Teenage Witch, the new one. There's an episode where they trick a fairy to get someone back. Oh, really? Yeah. It's all about tricking the fairies. You can't, you can't logic with a fairy. You can't just trade with a fairy.

You got to trick. I've got to outsmart her. You got to. That's what, that's all about. Write that down. Outsmart that fairy. Write it down. So in Ireland, fairies were huge on Halloween or in Sowan or, you know, what ended up turning

into Hallows Eve or their way of Halloween. Yeah. And there was an old folk ballad that was called Alison Gross. And it was a story of a fairy queen who saved a man from a witch's spell on Salon. Wow, it doesn't get more whimsical than that. The whimsy is just flowing out of their ears here. Whimsy is abundant. The whimsy and the spooky.

I like the spooky better. So it goes like this. I'll give you a little taste of it. In Westphillet. No, no. Very close. Oh, Alison Gross, that lives in Yon Tower. the ugliest witch in the north country.

She's turned me into an ugly worm and guard me total around a tree. But as it fell out last hallow even when the sealy, which was fairy, court was riding by, the queen lighted down on a gawainy bank not far from the tree where I won't to lie. She's changed me again to my own proper shape and I know more toddle about the tree. So slam poetry. I love it. So she saved him. She sure did.

That's awesome. So there's a lot going on. You might need a queen fairy to help you get your, you know, what, your husband or something or like a man or a woman from a witch's spell. Or you might need a witch to help you get your man back from a fairy. It's just who knows what crazy otherworldly creature is going to help your ass. It's like Narnia. You just never know who you're going to come across.

Yeah, you could come across a witch and be like, hey, can you help me get him back from a ferry? And she'd be like, nah, I'm going to turn you in. to a toad and you're like, well, shit. Or she could be like, yeah, I'll help you out. Yeah. But then you probably owe her something next year. You definitely owe her something next year. So Salon is just always you pay in debts. That's all. Yeah, Salon is not sounding like so much fun after all. It's fun, but it's tricky. It's tricky. It's tricky. It's tricky, tricky. Now, most farmers and people in like smaller towns and villages won't go outside that night still because they're so scared to run into something like evil as fuck. So is this October 31st?

Yeah, cool. Now, druids, which were, again, Celtic priests and also a ton of other shit at the time, made it, they said that this time of year made it easier to tell the future when the veil was lifted. So it was during the big bonfires at these festivals that people would tell fortunes, and it would just be like this big, cool, like just awesome, whimsical otherworldly event. It's like Burning Man. And people, kind of, actually. And actually, there was things where, which is this isn't like, you know, this is kind of one of those things people tell that like druids would burn people as human sacrifices in giant effigies of men or like humans. And they would like pack them all in there, like the wicker man.

Wow. And just burn that shit. So people held fortune telling parties too. And they still do. That's like a thing. Can we go? Right. And one of the ways that they would tell fortunes, like this old way of doing it, was to,

poke a hole in an egg and then slowly drop out the contents into a glass of water and they would read the shapes that swirled around in the glass in the glass of water and they would tell your fortune and i have to wait until Halloween to do that is what you're telling me of course you do you have to wait for sow and you want to do that with me yeah i do yeah now apples were also a huge thing they were the fruit which again apple pie and again it translates into how we view apples during the harvest season And we had apple picking, apple desserts, apple pie, apple tart. And they, you know, they're a huge thing. Well, they were considered a sacred fruit because if you cut it a certain way, there's a pentacle in the middle of it.

You know, and it's the symbol of the goddess Pomona, which is the Roman goddess. Our girl. It's all about fertility and life and rebirth and in Celtic tradition. They would bury the apples in the ground on Sowan so that the souls awaiting rebirth would have something to munch on. That's so awesome. Which I think it's great. We're really nice to the otherworldly souls. Salin is like really thoughtful.

Yeah, we don't want them to go hungry. We don't want them to get lost. No. We're just like, let me help you up. Have a snack. Take a chicken wing. Yeah. Have at it.

And let's talk about bobbing for apples. Oh, like we do now. I think I remember, but go ahead. So during Sowan, it wasn't exactly, you know, so we do this now. But it's actually for an interesting reason. So the goddess, which we're talking about like the Roman goddess Pomona, Yeah. Or no, I think this was actually Kalich, the Krohn. She was going to be hanging out and like chilling for six weeks until Yule. And that was in order to maintain, so you wanted to maintain her

presence in goodwill, but she was going to be kind of dormant until Yule. She was hibernated. Yeah, kind of. So you, but you wanted her because she brings goodwill if you ask her and she, you just need her presence. Okay. Now, in order to do that, you would capture an apple because it was a sacred fruit to the goddess, and this kept her around. And again, this is the crone. So you want her around. Sacred fruit to her was the apple. So bobbing for apples meant you captured the fruit. You get to keep her goodwill. Okay. So she is going to still like chill out for a little while, but you get her goodwill. Right. That's good. Now, now the reason you might be wondering, like, why was she chilling out until Yule? Well, that's because her bro, the god, the sun king,

who just left us is symbolically placed back into the earth until the winter solstice because he goes in there with the seeds. Oh. Now with him being out of commission for a bit, the goddess transforms from the goddess into the crown and she mourns the fuck out of him until he comes back. Oh, she misses her boy. Yeah, she just misses her boy. So when she's like mourning him, you kind of get her goodwill with the apples. Yeah. So now there is this, so now there's this fusing of Roman and Celtic tradition.

and festivals until Christianity came around and was like, no. So in 601 AD, Pope Gregory I issued a well-known edict that basically was like, okay, let's not strip down, like, let's not just strip these pagan traditions away and tell them they can't do it anymore. Like, no, we're going to, if they worship something, that's cool. We're just going to consecrate it to Christ and keep going. What does that mean? So we're going to Christianize any of these pagan things.

We're going to let them keep doing it, but now they're doing it in the name of Christ. Oh. Which means they probably didn't want to do it anymore. Yeah. It's basically just Christianizing everything, which, you know, whatever. He made November 1st, and so now November 1st became All Saints Day. Yeah, and it still is. And another word for saint or holy or sanctified is Hallow.

Oh. All Hallows Day. So what is October 31st? All Hallows Eve. There it is. Like the beginning of hocus pocus. Exactly, on all hallowsies. So the relabeling of pagan holidays as Christian days is kind of also how Christmas came about on December 25th.

Because if you wonder, like, how did they get that day? They just kind of assigned the date of December 25th because it corresponded with the midwinter celebration of a lot of people. Cool. That makes sense. Yeah. So that's just interesting. And druids were now, unfortunately, Christianity considered them. devil worshippers and that underworld that they worshipped and made offerings to was now

relabeled as the Christian hell. This is where the pagans became witches and spirits became demonic forces, ready to fuck you up on Halloween. Yeah, they made it a little, they took it a little too far. It got a little darker, actually, which is crazy. So Irish immigrants brought over the holiday traditions to America, and we turned it into the Halloween we know now. It's so weird how it got just like.

Yeah. It's crazy. So different. Now, the last thing I just want to mention, which is one of the biggest things on Halloween, is the Jackalanturn. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So originally, they weren't pumpkins because they weren't rolling pumpkin patches in Ireland. They are not like an indigenous plant to Ireland.

No. So it's not like they had a ton of pumpkins lying around. They used potatoes or turnips. Because they had a lot of those. Because they had a lot of those. And they would light them as a way to ward off evil. And the Jackalantor name came from the legend of. stingy jack. Stingy Jack. So stingy jack was a dick. Not king of the pumpkin

no and he was just like he just loved messing with everyone just fucking around with everyone he loved he was a prankster but like in a mean way he was mean spirit and cruel. He would do it to his family his friends anyone he loved he would just fuck with them. He was a jackass. And one day he was down drinking at the pub you know with the devil as one does and the devil was like hey, how would I buy you a drink? And Jack was like, oh, cool, thanks, bro. So he was like, awesome. And then the devil was like, just give me your soul and I'll buy you this drink. And Jack was like, okay. He thought it was a good deal. Yeah, he was like, cool. But can you, he was like, I don't have any, I don't want to pay for this. Like, I don't have any coins. So can you transform yourself into a

coin and show me that you're really the devil? And he was like, okay. So the devil transformed himself into a coin to pay for the drink, and Jack took the coin and kept it in his pocket with a cross, with like a crucifix, so the devil couldn't change back from that form initially. And he said, I will agree to take you out of there and change you and let you change back, but only if you wait a beat, and specifically a year on the whole taking of my soul thing. Okay. So he was like, wait a year to take my soul. Yeah, he was like, you can have my soul like I agree to, but like, you're not going to transform

back unless you agree to the year thing. And weirdly enough, the devil was like, okay. Devil loves a deal. He does. And he's apparently a man of his word. I don't know. So then one year after this, he runs into the devil. Of course. Because TikTok, it's been a year. Hi, I'm the devil. And they happen to be near an apple tree. Oh, apples. And the devil was like, hey, so I'm here to take your soul. And Jack was like, wait, how about before you take this soul in mine. Like, you can totally have it? But can you just jump up that apple tree real quick and grab me an apple? The devil's not a fool, though. And he was like, cool. Yeah, I'll do that. Because I really want your soul, but like, sure, you can have some sustenance, I guess. He's like, weird flex, sure.

He was like an apple a day. The devil said weird flex, but okay, I'll work it into any episode I can. There you go. And the devil climbed up the tree and he's picking an apple. And while he did that, Jack either threw a bunch of crosses around the tree, which I don't think that's what it was. Or he carved a crucifix into the trunk, which I think that's what happened. That's what it is. And because this is all very real, obviously. And he made him promise because the devil couldn't come down. So he was like, you have to promise not to take my soul when I die.

That's the whole point of the motherfucking deal. And the devil was like, damn it! Fooled me again. And so he was like, sure. So all he got was a drink out of this? But don't worry. The devil got his. He has something in his, up his sleep.

Because he was like, okay. Oh, sure. I won't take your soul when you die. But he knew something that Jack did not. So of course, years later, when he dies, he goes up to those, you know, the gates of heaven. And he's like, hey, I'm Stingy Jack. I'm ready to be on the list. And St. Peter was like looking at his list.

And he's like, oh, no, you're a giant dick. You don't get to come in here. Sorry, you're not on the list. He was like, no, no. Back in the line. And he was like, you need to get the fuck out of here. So he was like, you mean to be on the first floor, the basement. That's what you mean.

The basement of heaven. The basement of the world. So he was like, you need to go down to hell, motherfucker. That's where you belong. So he sent him down there to the gates of hell. And he was like, maybe that'll take you. So when he gets to the gates of hell, the devil's like, oh, no, remember? I agreed not to take your soul when you died.

And he was like, but what the fuck? Like, I can't get into heaven now. I can't get into hell. And he was like, not my problem. So the devil just tosses him some hellfire and was like, good luck wandering the in-between alone for all eternity. Oh, so he's in, what's that called? Pergatory. So he's just floating around.

So Jack happened to have a turnip because he liked turnips, so he just, like, had one. And he quickly hollowed it out and he carried the hellfire in it like it was a lantern. And he just wanders around with his turnip and his hellfire. in the in between. That doesn't seem so bad. And the Irish called the ghost of Stingy Jack, Jack of the Lantern. Duh. And later abbreviated to Jack O' Lantern. Jack O. Lantern. And Irish, you know, and the Irish carved different veggies and things like turnips and potatoes to keep Jack and his loner fucking hellfire away because he sucks. And he like to play tricks. Yeah. They were like he sucks. Can you imagine if we still carved potatoes? That's what I got out of this. I'm saying. Well, and they really were forever. And when they brought this tradition to America,

people were like, oh, I don't want to carve a turnip. That's really hard to do. They're hard. Yeah. And they're little. And so we have tons of pumpkins around here. So people realize that it's easier to carve a pumpkin and that they look cool. They do. And that's, that's how we got our jackal lanterns. Let me tell you a story. Tell me a story. All right, here's my story for you. You know it. This is for the listeners out there. Oh, yeah. Don't be carving your. pumpkins too soon. I would have told you this had you told me. Elena would have told me. I, my little sister was visiting from New York and I was like, oh my God, a really cool sawn thing that we can do while she's here. Lauren, do you know about

sowan? This is what we can do. We can carve pumpkins, but it was still September. It was like the end of September. And it ended up cool for a week and I carved my pumpkins and then fucking death flies were all over my porch and it looked like we had murdered a body. So, yeah, because the pumpkin just rotted. Oh, not the pumpkin. It accelerated. Four or five pumpkins and we had to like get them all in bags and then and then take them through our indoors apartment yeah and then go down the stairs and then go all the way to the trash and rotten pumpkin reeks dangie nasty smell and by we i mean annie truth but i think that was a really cool sound thing that we did yeah but don't do that guys because uh dumb pumpkins will rot

and stank don't do it and your neighbors will assume that you have uh killed a few people yeah Exactly. But what you can do is carve some potatoes. Yeah, you can. And, you know, so that, you know, concludes where we got some of our traditions like trick-or-treating and, you know, pumpkins and all that good stuff. That was a really fun episode. It was just fun to research. There was a lot to it.

I'm sure there's, you know, some other stuff that I didn't touch upon. Maybe I'll touch upon it in another episode if I find things. But this was just basically what I could find about saun and. how it fused with the Roman traditions and druids are pretty interesting. And then I had no idea that Christianity like changed some things. And it's all very interesting. I want to go to one of those fortune telling parties. With the egg yolk. I think we should do that this year. We should do it. I don't know if we, I love that you're like, we should do it. Like we should just do that and then like interpret egg yolk in our own way. Yeah. That's what I'm saying was that we should poke a hole in an

egg and we should interpret it. Yeah. And then there was also traditions like if you peel an apple and like one peel without breaking the peel and you throw it over your shoulder you see what it land like what shape it lands in and that's the initial of the person you're going to marry I don't want to do that because if it's not a I'll be pissed I'll be like wow what a waste of fucking three years I've been having well shit so there's a lot of those things though so there's cool traditions that's really cool and if we have any if we have any I'm like if we have any that we don't know about no I'm like I was going to say if we have any like Irish or Scottish listener oh I was like Are there any of you out there?

Like, fucking half the fucking listener. No, you guys are fucking awesome. But if you guys have anything you want to, like, add to this or you want me to, like, update or you can give me any of your traditions that you guys, you know, the UK listeners and European listeners, I'd love to do, like, you know, an episode that's about different parts of the world and how they celebrate this time of year. It would be very interesting. So if anybody has any stories that they'd like me to tell your own personal things that you celebrate, that'd be cool to hear. I'd love that. Feel free to email the Gmail at morbidpodcast.com. Email the Gmail.

Email the email. While you're at that, you can follow us on Instagram. At morbid podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. At a morbid podcast. Email the Gmail. Morbidpodcast.com. And if you don't have a Halloween costume, you might as well just go as a morbid podcast listener.

Shop top morbidpodcast.com. There you go. Wow. Look at you with the segue. She is basically Paul Blart Mallcops. You truly are just segue in everywhere. Out here. I'm a segue.

out here on my segue. But we hope you guys enjoyed this little Lucy-goosey Sowan Ad-free. Ad-free. And we hope that you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not somewhere that you don't do sowan.

Yeah, because sowan rules. Do all the sallin things. Dayway. Love you, bye. Happy Halloween.