Morbid - The Murder of Kelly Ann Tinyes

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

Kelly Ann Tinyes was at home babysitting her eight-year-old brother, Richie, on the afternoon of March 3, 1989 when the phone rang. Richie answered, talking briefly to the man on the other end of the line, before handing the phone to his sister, telling her it was someone named “John.” After a short conversation with “John,” Kelly hung up the phone and left the house around 3:15 pm, telling her brother she was going to her friend’s house down the street and would be right back. It was the last time Kelly’s family would see her alive.Thank you to the prodigious David White for research assistance :)ReferencesAssociated Press. 1990. "Sex motive charged in girl's slaying." The Journal News, February 16: 18.Bessent, Alvin. 1989. "Defense lawyer thrown off LI murder case." Newsday, October 3: 47.Danney, Micah. 2015. "Tinyes girl's killer denied parole." Long Island Herald, November 18.Lyall, Sarah. 1990. "Blood tests link Golub to crime scene." New York Times, March 1: B2.—. 1990. "Golub Case: Main Puzzle Is the Suspect." New York Times, March 5: B1.—. 1990. "Marks on body not from bites, dentist testifies." New York Times, March 23: B4.Milton, Pat. 1989. "Teen's murder transforms quiet L.I. neighborhood." The Journal News, March 26: 77.Mulugeta, Samson. 1997. "Drug case brings echo of murder." Newsday, March 23: 29.New York Times. 1978. "Not guilty verdict finds killer insane." New York Times, April 27: D21.Nieves, Evelyn. 1998. "What Happened on Horton Road." New York Times, May 31.Pearlman, Shirley, and Elizabeth Wasserman. 1989. "Tempers flare as murder hearing begins." Newsday, August 15: 61.Pearlman, Shirley, and Phil Mintz. 1989. "What cops say Golub told them." Newsday, August 15: 3.People v. Robert Golub. 1993. 196 A.D.2d 637 (Nassau County Appeals Court, August 23).Watkins, Ronald J. 2000. Against Her Will: The Senseless Murder of Kelly Ann Tinyes. Syracuse, NY: Pinnacle Books. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. I'm Elena. And I'm Christine. And this is Mormon. Mini, many, many, many, many, many, many morbid. Many morbid, mini morbid, mini morbid, mini morbid. I didn't know if we were saying it together and then I just stopped after I said this. It always turns out awesome. Clearly I made the decision for us. So I loved it. I was glad about it. Go with your gut, man. Go with your gut. Oh, I guess. This week we have Christine on from, and that's why we drink, as you all guessed, Christine is the special test this week. As everyone, as everyone guessed and demanded.

Oh, well, I'm very honored. When M first told me, they were like, oh, yeah, I'm going to be on Morbin. And I was like, what? Like, I told you about them. Like, I just got so, like, possess. And I was like, they're, what? And then you guys texted me immediately. And I was like, okay, I guess I get to do it, too.

So this is great. But at first I was like, no way. I was like, can I just like come and watch? I was being very weird about it. But anyway, oh my God, you should have. I probably should have. We can all have a Zoom after this.

It'll be fun. Everybody can just hang out. We might have to. But yeah, it's an honor. I'm so excited. I've been listening guys first like since October, I think. And I started listening because I was using you for research for some of my stories. And then I just like, my heart sore.

It was. And then I was like, oh, this is even research. It's like just fun to listen to. And so then I got a little bit. addicted to it. So, so honored. It makes us so happy. I know we're honored that you came. Seriously. I even brought wine. Like, I'm amped. I'm ready to go. We're here for it. I have a decaf coffee. Oh, hell yeah. I'm heading to it. Hardly time. I'm just ready. I have water. Yeah. Oh, hydration. We've covered all bases, really. We're out here wilded.

That's usually what they say about me. Yeah. Wilden. Me as well. You know me. Elena gets that all the time. Yeah, I am constantly wilden always. Things I never thought I'd hear. Nope. Well, and this episode is going to be wilden because it's a twisty-turning episode, which I'm excited about. And the best thing about this is when I texted Ash, it was like, it's going to be find like a twisty thing to do.

Oh, my God. You need to get out of my head. I was just about to say this. And Ash was like, so you mean Twisty the clown, right? So I'm going to do this. And then she went into it and I was like, no, no. I don't. I had a full blown idea. I thought that Christine was going to cover Twisty the Cloud. And I was like, oh, cool, I'll do Cropsy then. And I was like, Twisty the Cloud. Is it a real like true crop case? I knew I was confused, but I was ready. It was awesome. It was so earnest when you text to me. You were like, so Twistee the Clown. So I'm going to do Cropsy. I was like, that makes sense. I mean, we should keep that in mind for a future episode. I kind of like it, actually. I'm a little bummed we didn't go with that.

I know. That's okay. It's always next time. Yeah, Twistie. Yeah, exactly. Twisty was what I invented at like two in the morning. That's probably the word I use, which is so it's probably my fault. But yeah, at like two in the morning, I was like, I know, I'll make it twisty and turny.

And I don't know if that's even a theme at all, but that's what I. It totally is. You made it one. It's a great theme. Yeah. I made it one. for it. We're into it. And I think, so I think what we're going to do is we're going to start with the main event, which is, Christine. I'm the main event. You're the main event. Oh, shit. I'm so,

because you invented this whole thing. Yeah, I did. You're welcome. You did. I appreciate it. No, people are probably like in here like, who that hell is that chick? No, people are psyched. No, people are so stoked for this. I feel like we have a lot of the same listeners. Yeah. I think we do and today we did em and i did like a um an instagram live stream and everyone was like you finally did a morbid collat like people were very excited uh about the crossover yeah people were so funny it's been a long time coming i think it has the love is real the love is real it is genuine finally brought us all together this was kismet during kismet during quarantine just a beautiful love story all it took was a pandemic that's it

it's like not a big deal it won't have like lasting consequences in the world no absolutely not everything will be fine it's about us in our friendship is fine we're fine we're friends oh man okay well show should i just tell you this store i have two little like too short you can just dive into this minis if you will two twisty turnies two twisty tourneys two mini mortgids oh my god you came with mini morbids whoa i did see that part was on purpose look at The twisty, not so much, but that's okay. That was just a happy accident. That was a happy accident.

Thank you. That's how I like to look at it. So I have two like little stories. The first one I have, I like had heard of a long time ago and I wanted to do on that's what we drink, but it was too short, too many. And, you know, our shows are like four hours long each. Same. Yeah, exactly.

Makes for a good drive. Exactly. Commuting, which we don't do anymore, but that's okay. So I have two little many ones, but this first one is called the liquid Matthew case. Which sounds so disgusting. It does sound foul, doesn't it? Yeah. Anything liquid and I'm like,

do you guys know about this? I feel like Elena, you said you'd heard of it or you knew it. I've heard of this, yeah. I've heard of it, but I don't know the details. Okay, good. I intentionally didn't look at the details. Oh, good. I've heard of this, but I want to be surprised.

You got to know that you got to wait for the twist. twisty. We love a twisty. I'm so nervous. I'm going to tell you this now. We'll see how it goes. Don't be nervous. You look great.

You're killing it already. The lighting right now, if everybody could see it, it's beautiful. I know. I'm accidentally... I'm sitting under a skylight and it's really burning my retinas, so I'm glad it looks good. It's been some shades off and to tell the story. It's like some magic hour lighting. I love it.

A happy accident, as Elena likes to say. So many. So liquid Matthew, I'm going to tell you about this. This happened in Miami, Florida in 1983. And it was December 6th. And two joggers were out for a run. And they came across the body of a man who had been torn apart and wrapped in plastic underneath a no dumping sign, which Wow. That's ironic. I was just going to say that. That's a bad joke right there. Bad joke. Exactly. A ironic. Dad joke. And he had been strangled to death and was wrapped in plastic.

And the officers that were there, the detectives found a note that had been taped to the no dumping sign. And it was wrapped in plastic and it had a riddle on it. And the note read, once you're back on the track, you'll travel in night. So prepare your old self for a terrible fright. Now the motive is clear and the victim is too. You've got all the answers. Just follow the clues. I would be so excited.

If I was an investigator, I'd be like, fuck yeah. They're like, this is my moment. Exactly. They're like, this is what eight-year-old me got into the police, like was wanting to be a police officer for this exact type of situation. It sounds like a hunt-a-killer box. Yes, like a real life riddle. Exactly. And so apparently there was this guy named Sergeant Miller who was like, hell yeah, this is my jam and got all over it.

Sergeant Miller. Sergeant Miller was like, I'll take it. And he solved the first clue. It took him an hour, apparently. I know he was on top of it I thought so and it led him to a second clue and they found the second clue on the back of a speed limit sign and this clue said yes Matthew is dead but his body not felt

those brains were not mats because his body did melt for Billy threw Matt in some hot boiling oil to confuse the police for the mystery they did toil gross you guys like a poet but also like he's wilded He is Wilden. If anyone is Wilden. Sergeant Miller was like, shit. I did not expect to take such a wilden turn.

Oh, man. So they found this second clue. And like at first they were like, hell yeah, we are on the hunt. We got this figured out. But after the second clue, they were like completely stumped. And so they thought, well, what do we do now? I guess in all the traditional like true crime stories, what you do is you go to the public. And so much like the Zodiac, they put.

put, uh, they went to the Miami Herald and they ran a story about the case and put the, like, creepy riddle in the newspaper and for like the public to kind of try and figure out and solve and see if they could, uh, find the third clue, basically. This is my dream. I know. I was like, this is like a real life story that you just imagine in like a, yeah, fictional Netflix show. Why am I not alive for these kind of things?

Like, why does this never happen to me? Yeah. Like, I want to open a you a paper. We would definitely solve it. I will solve this. I feel like you would just go. from like clue one to like the 10th clue it would be like that was easy got it sergeant Miller I love a good good rule so they were like okay we'll see if anyone in the public knows what this is about and pretty

soon two people came forward and they were both members of a local church and they were like those notes we wrote them and the police were like shit well they were like well thanks for coming they were like that's real weird should we get our like weapons out I don't know yeah So they were like, I think you did something bad. I'm pretty sure. So they pulled us. They were like, we wrote those notes. And at this point, too, I will say the case had become known as the liquid Matthew case because of the hot boiling oil and the name Matthew in the note. And they were trying to, it was like very cryptic. And they were like, is this guy Matthew? Like, I guess so. I don't know. Just they were very confused. They were like, let's make this as gross sounding as possible. Yes. Try to get people interested in it, which I guess it worked. Yeah. Instead of Matthew, Sue. let's call it.

Oh, God. It's like flat family. I was on the table for a bit. Yeah, they were brainstorming. Yeah. Had to shop it. For ours, we wrote those. And it turns out that back in October, this church they were members of,

had set up a Halloween murder mystery style scavenger hunt for the kids of the congregation to solve. And they had wrapped them in plastic bags to protect them from the weather. And that night it had stormed. And so a lot of the notes had not been picked up after the scavenger hunt was over. Oh shit. And so it was just like a total coincidence that this note had been hanging like literally above the dead body. Like the person who dumped the dead body there had nothing to do with the note. And it just happened. What are the odds of that? Also, that's like a very intense note for

a children scavenger hunt. That's what the most metal church I have ever heard. And for a church. That's actually the church of Elena. It sounds awesome. That's exactly. That's what your church would write. That's why you would have solved it right away. You were like, yeah. Yes, I can speak this language. I would be the one who would have chosen those notes for scavenger hounds for the church, and they would have been like, yeah, you can't do that. You're actually no longer a member of our church. You've been excommunicated.

And so they were like, wow, okay, so this was like a totally, two months later, they just happened to find a dead body underneath this sign taped to a sign. And so it was a total coincidence. And they actually eventually found out that the murder victim was. a guy named Francisco Patino Gutierrez, and he was a Colombian national who had actually recently smuggled or attempted to smuggle 11 pounds of cocaine into the United States. And so it turned out he had been killed for drug-related reasons. And yeah, Francisco didn't, was not a happy ending.

But it also was not as dramatic and fun as the police thought it was. No, it definitely wasn't. It was a very, like, day-to-day case. I felt really sad for Detective Miller or Sergeant Miller, who was. was like, I really thought I was going to be interviewed by Netflix in 30 years and like, you know, this is going to be a turning point. Where you're like, so I'm going to have a movie made of me. Right.

And I can't wait to see who plays me. Like Morgan Freeman will be in this film someday is what this feels like. Yeah. Maybe Brad Pitt will play me. It'll be awesome. Yes, exactly. So I felt a little sad for him because he really, you know, they got that pulled out from under him.

But they did figure out that someone. was pissed enough about his drug bus that they strangled him and left him under the no dumping sign. And, yeah, in other words, his murder had nothing to do with the cryptic notes. It was just a total coincidence. And the real life mystery kind of just fell by the way side and got solved. So it's kind of the anti-hugly like huge twist. Like it's like an anti-climactic twist. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's like a real life twist. Like, oh, well, that wasn't as fun as we thought. But, Francisco just got unintentionally wrapped up with the metal church. Things just went, people always warned him, you know. Yeah, they were like, don't get involved with this metal church. With the church of Elena, it's really dangerous. The church of Elena. Have you heard about the scavenger?

It's real intense. For the children. For the youths of the church. The youth ministry. That's a, I was like, damn, I was, I grew up in like the Catholic Church and I went to Catholic school for 15 years and we never did. any cool murder mystery stuff. For real.

Never. I was like, this is such a bummer. Our mysteries were about like the crucifixion, which I guess is kind of twisted in its own way. There you go. That's kind of murder mystery. Yeah, I guess that's true. But yeah, any kind of murder mystery with a church, I'm like, that's awesome.

Yeah, like next level. Okay. I feel like I would send my kids there, maybe. Yeah. So that is the first twisty case. That was a good. Liquid math is soup. I like it.

Have you seen? Oh, God. I can't. Every time I say it, I'm like, blah. It is really repulsive. Like, my skin kind of turns inside out. It really is. Yuck.

But, like, truly, I do think, I do kind of hope they had, they looked into whoever wrote that one about, like, boiling someone in hot oil because... That's the thing. Yeah. They spoke from experience. Yeah. It's a little too specific. That person was unloading some emotional baggage, I feel.

And, like, I wonder if they left. them up on purpose. Like, I hope someone finds my poetry. I hope someone finds it and enjoys my poetry. So I've finally been discovered. Well, I have one more for you. And this one actually is like, it does end up fucked up. So this is a real life twist. I wanted to make sure we actually had like a climactic twist, not just a climactic twist. So we had one that was like a twist that was like, whoa. And then one that's like, whoa. Just kidding. Yeah. So I'll, and on this one. Now, this actually took place last year, like less than a year ago, this past fall. So this is a very new and unfolding case. And this is the story of Maria del Carmen in Spain.

Ooh. I don't think I know this. Yeah, I had never heard of it either until I found it on a listicle, which is usually where I find things that fascinate me at two in the morning. Me too. Right. That's exactly what I do. I deep dive into listicles in the middle of the night to find it. I feel like that's where they've, that's what they're meant for, I think. It's the hidden gems. It is. Yeah. It really is.

So this took place in northern Spain in last fall. This woman's name, Maria Del Carmen, and she asked her neighbor one day if she could store a box for her. She's like, oh, I'm just like clearing some stuff out. Do you mind storing this box? And the woman is like, no. The answer is always no, thank you. The answer is always no. I don't have any room for that.

No. My house is like baggage. Chalk a block full. Thank you. No room whatsoever for your random box. Why don't you get you a store? facility like a normal human yeah and so of course this one's like well what's in it and maria says oh it's just my sex toys which oh well definitely well that doesn't help like I don't know I guess that was

the convincing part where she's like oh sure okay but to me that's when I'd be like oh why didn't she say so oh you got any more okay plenty of I got a whole room for those yeah we got a place for those a special special room special closet for the I guess this woman literally did have a special closet. She seemed to be, I mean, maybe she just, like, I personally am so bad at boundaries that, like, if someone asked me something to my face, I just like say yes to get the conversation. And then I think, like, how can I get myself out of this? So maybe it was more of one of those scenarios, which I like to think, because I feel like this would happen to me. And I'd be like, I don't know.

I just said yes. Okay. She seemed so earnest, I guess. And this woman just like, yeah, I guess I'll take your sex toys. and she put it in her wardrobe in her special closet. And she stored in there for six months. Wow. Yeah.

And like just forgot about it. And then pretty soon after that, she started to realize that the box had a terrible stench coming from it. Oh, no. That's never good. Especially when it's sex toys. I was like not a sex toy stench. It's so foul. And how do you bring that up?

You can't bring that up to her and be like, so about those. That's insulting. Like you really should wash these. That you gave me a box. About your stanky sex stories. It's starting to smell a little. Fowl. Now I'm just realizing I've like created my own

unknowing theme of like just really gross topic. I don't know how this happened. Clearly something's on the brain. We've evolved from like twisty to like just foul rank. It's awesome. Just foul. I'm taking that word. This is pretty on brand I guess.

Yeah. I love it. always kinds of ends up some more gross. I'm here for it. So she's like, well, this is gross. It has a nasty smell. And for a while she ignored it because duh, but then after a while she was like, no, I need to like either get rid of this or like see what's going on.

So she lifts a lid of the box, opens it up, which must have been the most like stressful moment of honestly. Yeah, it just sounds disgusting to think about. But so she lifted the lid on this box of gross smelling sex toys and inside. It was not sex toys. Was it dillet, no. Was the end. Wow.

Told you. You're like the twist is there's no twist. It's just a nasty lady. Just smelly sex toys. That's the twist here today. So gross. Thanks for listening. Bye.

Come check out my show. Yeah. Keep it weird, but not so weird that. Yeah. That's built for that, I think. It really is. so inside she actually finds a severed head oh i knew it oh a head i'm so hoping for a head which is like pretty much the only other possible option i think that would be in this box and the other something that's

worse yeah exactly the only thing you're right yeah you're right is a severed head arguably like equally bad but probably worse but probably slightly worse slightly so she finds his head it's in an advanced state of decomp and um she apparently suffers a panic attack like that's in the news they're like she had like a full blown panic attack which i was like makes sense yeah you're like same me too exactly so she apparently called police right away and they came and they looked at this head it was an advanced state of decomp and it appeared to have been boiled in water and then wrapped in either foil or wrapping paper which slightly different uh materials but one of the two A weird method.

Yeah, yeah. And they were like, well, where did you get this box? So obviously she's like, well, I'll tell you where I got this fucking box. And they determined that the head belonged to Maria, her neighbor's partner. And his name was 67-year-old Jesus Maria. And he had been missing since February. And I guess they had found him. Yeah.

In a big way, too. In a big way. I was really hoping they would show him. up and be like, what's in the box? Maybe they did. That's all I kept. I'm thinking of what's in the box. That's actually where that originated.

Yes. There you go. Retroactive. A little known fact. According to Hesu's cousin, quote, first she told us, so he had gone missing in February, this guy, and Maria had told his family like all sorts of excuses. So apparently, quote, first she told us he had gone on holiday. When we called his cell phone and got no answer, she told us that the phone had broken

after it fell in the bath. So then she gave us another phone number from which we received text messages, but we didn't think it was him given the way they were written. So they asked the person on the other end of this new phone number, like, can you send us an audio message or call us to like prove that it's you? And the person just kept saying, no, I like don't have time to send an audio message. And they were like, well, okay, this is definitely not him. She was catfishing them. Exactly. Exactly. And they were like, we know that's not you. So it was just super sketchy. And so they got no response. And they had actually reported him missing earlier that year. So when question, Maria told the Spanish Civil Guard that she had contacted

her partner through WhatsApp and she's like, oh no, this is before they found the head. And she's like, oh, no, like, I've been talking to him through WhatsApp. Like, he's fine. And they were like, okay, can you like give us your phone so we can like look at the messages and see if we can trace them? And she's like, oh, actually I just dropped it in the toilet. And they were like, okay. They're like real convenient. Yeah. You guys are really clumsy, both of you, I guess. So, they were like this is clearly something fishy is going on um so then obviously they find this fucking head and uh the the woman who found it they were like well why did you take this box and she's like well which is a very fair question no yeah like I have no boundaries I don't know how to say

no I don't I mean I get it lady I get it. Lesson learned relatable like lesson that was her lesson and saying no for sure no and honestly I'm like maybe next time I'll just think of a and be like imagine the possibilities of what could happen. It's like exposure therapy. Yes, exactly. It's exposed you to the worst case scenario. And now you're like, you know what? Now I'll say no.

Never again. Traumatized. Yeah, apparently she refused to like. That'll change you. That'll change you. And they, you know what? She refused to put her name in any of the articles. And I was like, oh God, poor lady is probably like, fuck.

Like I messed up big time. So she's not in any, she's like not named anywhere. She doesn't want anyone showing up in her drawer with like a box of sex. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, I know just the person. Yeah. I know you'll take these. That's a good point.

I actually didn't think of it that way. So they were like, well, why did you take this box? And she said, oh, well, Maria said that she needed me to hold on to this box of sex toys, quote, in case police searched her home in relation to the disappearance of her partner. And she's like, oh, it would just be embarrassing if the police found my sex toys. So, like, can you hold on to it? I'm like, this poor lady didn't know that it was like literally the remains of the person they were looking for. Never would have guessed.

No. And so six. 61-year-old Maria del Carmen was arrested Trelley thereafter. She is now facing homicide charges. And she, like, created this whole story after this to, like, explain herself. And she says that Jesus' head was dropped off at her doorstep after he went missing in February. And they were like, well, then why didn't you call the police? And she was like, well, his head was the only memento I had to remember him by.

So I gave it to my neighbor. Yeah, exactly. Like, yo, I love John. But, like, you know. If that's the only mevento I have, I'll let it go. Yeah, I'll find a picture. Yeah, yeah, a photo. WhatsApp will be enough to talk to it.

I'm not going to hang on to that. Once you put your phone in some rice, just download these pictures and you'll be good to go. There's like a cloud, I'm sure, for WhatsApp. Yeah. Wow, what a romantic. I know. And so they were like, well, we don't really believe that because you also just gave it to your neighbor for six months. And yeah.

So. Okay. The police didn't buy it. I don't think this is going to fly in court for obvious reasons. And unfortunately, they've never found the rest of Jesus's body. But the latest update is they are searching his property, the properties he owned to see if they can find the rest of his remains. So on our next Twisty, part two, I'll let you know if they ever figure that one out.

Yes, Twitzy part two. Yeah, seriously. Because now I want to know too. We need to name this episode Twisty. Twistie. That's it. Just twisty. Period.

period it's ominous all it is very honest can the wrapping paper retraced or something like that look into that shit look at how i'm like doing that deal with us i'm like investigating just let me tell you what to do that's a good point but she'd probably she'd probably tell you like i wrapped it in beautiful paper because i just it was so important to me and i wanted to preserve it was a gift in christmas paper right he was a gift that's what it is don't you get it yeah so that's like it's very meaningful Those are my weird such kind of late night stories that I stumbled upon listical. Those were perfect, though. Those were really good.

I'm glad you liked them. The first one was kind of anticlimactic, so I wanted to bring a head into the picture. But it was anti-climactic and like the best way. Like, that's exactly what I was going to say. Yeah, anyway, we were all wrong. I feel like I'm glad, though. Like, I was happy for the ending that we got. Not happy, but like glad that nobody got boiled at least.

You know what? That's true. There's no liquid, Matthew. Yeah. Yeah. That we're a silver line. That we know of. I still think whoever wrote that little scavenger hunt thing was unloading something.

I think maybe they need to check underneath that church because there might be some secrets hiding down there. That is a good point. I think they need to look in the church kitchen, see what's going on in there. Look in those big old pots. Check all the pots. Big stock pot. Because I think there was some feelings being put on paper there. Being disguised as a game.

It's just like a starving artist. struggling poet. It was. Beautiful. Exactly. This is just my art. I'm just trying to express myself. You guys don't understand. Now you're saying like that.

Edgar Allan Poe. So my cob. For children. For the youths. Oh boy. I'm nervous to follow that up now. Those were good. No, no.

I want to hear you're, I'm excited. Bring the twisties. You're going to drink my wine and listen up. Okay, perfect. So I got together. like two pages, so it's like longish, but not really at all. Yeah. Two pages are a lot. Yeah. Christine, the light you have right now is making you look like an angel. I can't. It's actually like, you need to take like a little photo shoot there, like an Insta shoot.

You guys, I am so sweaty. I'm like, I just feel so gross right now. So every time you say that I'm like, are you sure? I feel like you really are. It's true. Now you look great. You're glowing. I just can't lift my arms because there's definitely sweat going on. So I'll just freeze really, really still thank you though if i didn't have a tank top on right now i would be in the same boat same that i appreciate it thank you so much um so i did the murder of dorothy jane scott dorothy this sounds familiar but i don't remember it i had never heard of this one i looked on a list and i was like oh that one will work okay great we love a good list oh my god what if i've covered this and i'm just like i've never heard of this that's going to be embarrassing so i checked spotify to see if

you guys did and i don't think that you did okay good. The name sounds really fucking familiar, but I could just be making that up. So I did like a very brief search to see if you did. So maybe. And also like every story I've ever covered, I don't remember. So it doesn't even matter. Because yeah, same. I'll hear it for the first time right now. Yeah. People will be like, I loved that episode you did on like so and so. I'm like, I didn't know. Yeah, exactly. Always. Or there was one recently. I think it was actually the one we did that where we had Billy Jensen on. We covered the Karina Homework. Oh, yeah. By the way, I meant to message you guys like, shit but talk about like fan girlie I covered that one a while ago that's that's a great case but somebody

was somebody message or somebody commented on and was like I thought you guys had already covered this and like what in a couple of people did and I was like oh shit and I like went back I was like did we and we didn't we're good because when you get to like a hundred and I don't know what we're at but like a hundred something you're like wait that was like literally two years ago yeah no this is like this is like our biggest fear that we're going to like redo a story and it's not even necessarily like, oh, we'll do the same story twice, but it's like, why did I just do the notes all over again for a story that I already had notes on? Like I could find them somewhere.

Come on. Right. Oh, God. Well, we did Karina Homer recently. Maybe that was like the similarity or something. That might have been probably. I hope so. Because it's stressed me out.

That's scary. That is really frightening. Yeah. For a brief moment, I was like, you're like, well, now we did it twice. So we really wanted to do it justice. Yeah, that's fine. We just really liked that one. Yeah.

Exactly. All right, well, let's find out if you've covered Dorothy. Okay. I can't promise I'll know by the end, but we'll see. Whatever works. She was a 32-year-old single mother, and this was in 1980. Her son, Sean, was four years old, and his dad, like, wasn't really in the picture. They had Sean, and then it seems like he kind of just dipped after that.

So that's, like, kind of sad. Yeah. Dorothy and Sean lived with Dorothy's Aunt Shanti in Stanton, California. Yeah. So she, by all accounts, was like a super sweet lady with like a very casual life. She didn't really have an enemy that anybody could think of. Like everybody was like, no, she's like literally the nicest lady ever, which is always the case. And it's so sad. I know. It's like that's not how the world should be working. No. I thought when you said she had a very casual life, I thought you were saying that sarcastically and you were going to go, she's actually a sword swar. She was wild in all over the scene. She was wilden. She was like.

Anti-Wilden. Whatever that is. No, she was anti-wilden. She was just taking care of her son and working. She, like, went to church a lot. So she was Wilden Light. Yeah, exactly. She was Diet Wilden.

Diet Wilden. Oh, my God. That's what we're doing in quarantine. It's Diet Wilden. Yeah. That's what I feel like I'm doing every day. I love that. I actually, like, really relate to that.

Yeah. Right? I feel like that needs to be a shirt. I like, oh, we need. to make that a shirt. TMTM. You guys need to do that. I was just going to say to buy a buyer. We're into it. Yes. Crossover merch. Yeah, that's a great idea. I actually wanted to buy one of your, sorry, this is like so off topic, but I went on your merch today and I was like, holy shit, because I've seen some of them on Instagram and I went and looked and I was like,

you guys have fucking beautiful stuff on that murder apparel site. I was like, murder apparel? Yeah. I want to buy one of those sweatshirts. They look so cozy. They look so cozy. If you order them like two sizes bigger, you can wear them with like leggings and they're so comfy. That's what I was going to do. I was like, that looks like the coziest thing ever. So, okay, I'll do that after we get off.

It really is. It really is. Use code morbid. Yeah, I was going to say this is promo. Go buy their merch. It's really dope. Right. Where was that?

Okay. I don't know. I'm sorry. You're fine. She was anti-wild and that's where we were out. Right, right. Dirty was working at Swinger Sykeshap, which sounds like a wild place. But really, they just sold like lava lamps and like candles and stuff like that.

Oh, which sounds like my kind of place. It's pretty well. She was a secretary there and she worked in like the back office. And then she also worked at Custom John's Head Shop, which I think her dad owned part of the Swinger Sykeshop. He owned... I literally just remembered this one. From that head shop. Yeah.

I think we did this like really like a few months ago. But I don't remember what happens. But I remember I just don't want people to get. You know you totally will. I don't want people to like get on Instagram be like, you've already fucking told this. Like you're pretending you don't know. I literally don't remember. But I do know that I've talked about it before.

But this is a good one. I love it. It was pre-quarantine. It was pre-quarantine. So I don't remember much that happened before. It was a different time. It was a different time. Everything PQ is null and void.

No one void is diet. PQ is a different type. Was Wilden. This is Diet Wilden. Very different sodas. Very different sodas. So yeah, so her dad owned part of, I don't know if he owned part of the head shop or if he owned part of the swinger psych shop. I think it was the psych shop, but it was hard to tell.

But also, it doesn't make a huge difference in the story. But also, whatever. Pish posh. He owned a Disney. There were lava lamps. Whatever. It's all good. So Custom Johns was a general store and then like I said, lava lamps, cool beads at the psych shop.

When she was working, her parents would watch her son because, and they only lived 20 minutes away from each other. So it was like a really good setup. They could watch her kid. She could pick them up and go home and it wouldn't be like too long. Like I said, she liked going to church and all that stuff. And she dated here and there, but not super often. so like she wasn't at dating anybody seriously at the time of all of this stuff that I'm about to tell you.

So shit goes down as it always does. And basically out of nowhere, she's all the time. She just hits the fan, yeah. It's flying. So literally like out of nowhere, she started getting these super like freaky calls from someone. Oh. And eventually she tells her family that the voice does sound familiar, but she can't figure out exactly who it was. She's like, I know I know this voice, but I can't figure out who it is.

Which is my worst nightmare. Yeah. It's terrifying. Who is calling me. I don't like that at all. And the guy on the other line never said his name, obviously. He just said the most terrifying things. He wasn't like, hey, it's Ted.

She's like, I can't figure out who it is. He's like, it's dead. It's crazy. He's like, it's fucking Ted. I'm here to scare you. Bad connection. What? He sound familiar.

It's so weird. Yeah. She never found out who he was. And one second he would be telling her like how much he loved and adored her. And then the next second he'd be threatening her life. So. Oh, Christ. The calls lasted for months and months.

Oh. Yeah. The calls lasted for months and they got more grim every single time. Wait, what did you say? Are you frozen? Oh, no. She's. Oh, no.

Oh, no. Frozen. Oh, God. We love the Zoom call. You were frozen. This is fun. So the calls are getting more grim. him. And at one point he, and they're lasting, like this has been going on for months and

they're starting to get crazier, crazier. And he tells her at one point that he got her a gift and to go look outside. Oh, fuck no. Which is the box of sex toys. No. Exactly. Full circle. It's either a severed head in wrapping paper or a box of dildos. Right. Either way. It's never what you want. It's not a gift to you're here for. It was a dead rose. sitting on her car, on her windshield, which it's like symbolic, horrible, rude, take it back. That's how I take it back. This is so theatrical. It is.

I'd be like, you're such a Thespian, Mara. Very, very lifetime movie. Like, when I was writing this, I was like, is this real though? Or like, am I getting, am I getting lied to right now? Is this true crime? It really sounds like a lifetime movie. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's like, bro, did you just like let a bro's wither and die like specifically for That's what I was thinking. Oh my God. I literally just remember telling M this fucking story because they were like, so did they like find a dead rose or did they like kids a rose? That was the same question. I was like, oh, God, I don't know. There you go.

I was like maybe they went through the trash and found it, but also that's not very romantic. I don't know. This person sounds committed to like watching that rose die and then placing it on the windshield and being like, yeah, that's true. Look what I made you. Yeah. Creepo. So she looks outside and she's like, I don't.

want that. Bye. And he was also... That's actually a direct quote from this case. I don't love that. Bye. He was... Bye. He was... Bye. Got to go. He's somewhere like, oh, nuts. Oh, man. Damn it. I'll try again with a carnation next week. This is pre-Google. You couldn't like Google most romantic gift listicles. Like, you had to just figure it out by yourself. And he wasn't very good at it. Clearly. He was good at following her schedule, though, because... Oh, no. He knew what time of day, what time she started her day. He knew when her day ended and like every detail in between.

He'd be like, you went to lunch at this time and like ate this and like all this creepy stuff. I made that out of it. But like he knew details. Always try to switch up your schedule. We always say that. Always be wild. Then they won't catch you. Because if you're wild in, it's with a group and you're good, sis.

That's my theme. That's how I live my life. Me too. And you never want, I don't know if I'm using it correctly. I'll let you know. Oh, me neither. I'll let y'all know. You never wild the same way twice.

I feel like. I don't know. That's what I say. That's what we do. We are a cue after quarantine now. So we're. There you go. We're a different kind of wild.

We're mid quarantine. It's not diet wild in any. It's wild and zero like Coke zero. Oh, shit. Like crystal wilden. Mm-hmm. It's like super rare. I like Crystal Wilden.

Are you frozen? That sounds like drugs. Super rare. Oh, there's Elena. It sounds like a drag. It does. I know a lot about drugs. Don't worry about it.

Crystal Wilden. Exactly. It's true. I like had like a little bit of tears coming out of my eyes. I can't tell if there's a sweat or tears. It's probably both. A mixture of both. That's what mine is.

It's a wonderful mixture of both. Yeah, it's great. Um, so yeah, he knew her whole schedule, knew what she was doing all day. And at one point, he called her and said, quote, when I get you alone, I will cut you into bits and no one will ever find you. What the fuck? No. So he goes from like watching roses die to be romantic and then being like, I'm going to kill you. Uh-uh.

It's not okay. In one article I found. Wow. I'd be like, that escalated quickly. It really did. In one article I found on medium. It was written by Kim L. Pasqualini. Sorry if I messed that up. That is the call. What's up? Girl, what's going on? I love it. That was the call that really freaked Dorothy out to the point that she started taking self-defense classes.

You don't say. Yeah. Yeah. That did it. So she starts taking self-defense classes and she even considered buying a gun at this point just like for protection. Oh, God. I do not believe you, girlfriend. she never had the chance to get that gun. Oh no. Dorothy. This is where it gets twisty, tourney. This is just like a crazy twist in the story.

So on the night of May 28th, Dorothy, yeah, Dorothy was at a meeting for the psych shop when she glanced at her co-worker Conrad. And she's like, wow, Conrad does not look so hot. Like, what is going on? He's like, like, he has this red, like, circle on his arm and it looks all swollen and he just looks very uncomfortable and, like, not good. So she's like, what's up, Conrad? Like, I think we should take you to the hospital. So her and her co-worker named Pam decide to take him to the ER together. But remember, Dorothy's parents were watching Sean.

So on the way to the ER, they stopped because there was no cell phones at that time. And she just, like, let them know what was going on. She, like, dropped in really quick, was like, hey, we're going to the hospital. And while she was stepping outside, she changed the scarf that she was wearing. So she changed it from a red or from a black scarf to a red scarf. That will be important for later. This is so ominous. It is so ominous.

So she swapped out the scarves and then they're on their way. If I saw that in a movie, I'd be like, that's too much. It's simply like, this is too cliche. I'd be like, all right, she wouldn't do that. Lifetime, calm down. It's the rose, it's the scarf, all of it, too much. Yeah. And then this is lifetime as fuck because Conrad gets treated for a black widow spider bite.

Oh, God. That's why he was anti-Wilden. You know what? I'm like, I'm starting to remember this. And it's just just as scary as it was when I first heard about it. But the spider bite thing, too, I remember because my husband works in an ER and like he always says, he's like, everyone comes in thinking they have a spider bite. It's never a spider bite. It's always like dermatitis or something.

It's always a pimple. It's always a Zit, like half the time it's a Zit and people refuse to believe it. Wow. That would be so embarrassing. Yeah, people like constantly think they have spider rights and he's like, it drives me crazy. It's like the one thing that like people come in all the time. And it like so rarely happens. So when I read this, I was like, Blaze, you wouldn't believe this.

There actually was a spider bite. Okay, wait. Because he's like, why does everyone think spiders are just like waiting around to bite you all this time? Just like trying to kill everyone. Everyone's just getting bitten by spiders. They are, though. Because last night at like, I think it was like 1 a.m. I stayed up super late last night and I crawl into bed and we live in like the upstairs attic.

So you know how like ceilings are slanted. You can see. This mother fucking giant ass spider is just crawling on the ceiling over my head. I pushed Annie out of bed and ran to the other side of the room. She was like, what the fuck? Like what did you just do? I made Annie kill it. Oh good.

Okay. I was like one of you has to do it, I guess. It was so scary. because you have to kill it like so carefully or else it's going to fall in our bed. Falling your bed. On my fucking again. Yeah. I don't know how I went to sleep last night.

It took a long time. Set a bonfire on the backyard and burn everything. It's just a long procedure. This thing was like this big too. And it was one of those brown like woodland fucking creatures. Oh. Those are yeah. No good.

I just got. Yeah, no. I got like hives thinking about it. I can see. I'm going to tell Blades about it. I mean like I found another spider bite. So I guess you're not all. always right. A potential spider bite. Potential spider bite. Well, that's like, see, but I will take

those spiders. No. Over the house centipedes. I won't take either. I don't want to bargain. No. Do you remember the house centipede in my house the night that you were here, the night we almost woke John up at 2 a.m. to kill this. Elena literally was like, I was ready to pack my bags and sell that thing the house. Not even sell it. Just be like, it's yours now. Just get rid of it. It was a moment where I was going to give it my kids. I was going to give it my house. Anything I wanted. just like sacrifice everything. Take what you want. I was like, I'm leaving.

It's all yours now. Yeah, we grew up with those centipedes and they like my mom would be like, no, they're healthy. They eat cockroaches. I was like, I don't care what they eat. But we don't have roaches. Right. She's like, that's because the centipedes eat them. And I was like, this is getting worse for me.

And then when you put like one time my friend was over and she put her shoe on and it like crawled out of her shoe with her leg. Nah. I was like, I'm never. To this day, I like empty my shoes out. Yes. Honestly. Oh my gosh. The other day, I came home.

Oh, I still have, like, serious trauma from this. I have trauma from this and I wasn't even there. I had just worked at the Borg. So I came home and we have like a whole thing where I come in to like the mudroom and John like hands me a robe and I like take everything off and put it in a plastic bag and rush up to the shower so that I'm not like tracking, you know, COVID throughout the house. Yeah. And so I run up there and so I got everything together and then John was taking the

kids, I think just like out to a park somewhere. And so I go to pull the shower curtain back and there are two house centipedes. What do they want? They were in it together to fuck you up. And one of them fell on the ground. And I just took the nearest thing I had and I just pulverized it on the ground. Like it didn't exist anymore when I was done. But then I couldn't get and you made it watch the other one. I couldn't get myself to like pull the curtain back. So I just texted John and I was standing in my robe, like in the kitchen, texting him being like, I can't do it. Like, you need to come home. You need to get it for me. Elena texted me and she goes, I'm taking a sponge bath. Want to know why? And I was like,

oh my God. I was like, no, why? In the downstairs bathroom and just stood there and like sponged myself off just to get it. Because I was like, I'm not going there. I know. Because like on the one hand, it's like COVID. On the other hand, it's like centipies. It's just all equally bad. It's like no good choice. It's really something out there. I just told John, I was like, I gave it the bathroom, so I don't know what to tell you. It belongs to it now. You're like, we don't have a shower anymore, but we've got this downstairs toilet. You've got a sponge.

It's awful. And now I can't go in the shower without having him check first because now I'm traumatized by it. I mean, that, yeah. You guys, this is a twisty-turning episode. I'm like on edge right now. I feel like there's like itchy on my neck. Yeah, I was just going to say that. Now I'm like, ew.

My feet are like on the floor and it's freaking me out. I'm like, is something going to crawl in my foot? now. I just took my socks off too. They move so fast. Dangerous. Dangerous. Oh, all right. Well, thanks guys. We'll get back to the story to make us feel better, question mark. Can't wait to get into bed later. Oh, God. No. So, where was it? Okay, so he had a black widow spider fighters. Yeah, right. So he gets treated for that and they provide him like a prescription. I don't know what you get for that. Christine, do you know? Blaze says it's nothing. I don't know. So I guess I'll have to call. We give you a slap on the ass.

and tell you good luck. Get some Zit cream and go home. You'll be fine. Well, they gave Conrad a prescription. Somehow he walked out of there with one. I'm sure you probably do have to get for an actual blackwood of a poisonous bite. Can you stop acting like I'm like the worst PA in the world? He gets sued for malpractice after this.

Oops, my dad. Everyone who comes in, he's like, ah, you're fine. So, my bad. Pam and Conrad decided that they were going to go grab the prescription because the pharmacy was like, like right there. And Dorothy was like, I have to go to the bathroom. I'm going to rent to the bathroom. And then I will pull the car. No, Dorothy. I know. She shouldn't have been going anywhere alone, like, not victim blaming, but like, oh. Yeah. People should have been like, no, no. Don't go alone. And I'm pretty sure it was late at night, too, because I read somewhere, I only read it in

one source, so I like wasn't going to say it, but fuck it. Um, I read one place that this meeting was at like 9 p.m. because it was probably after the store closed. So this is like later at night. Yeah, that makes sense. So she's like, I got to pee, then I'll pull the car around. So Pam and Conrad go get the prescription and like it doesn't take that long. And then they come out and Dorothy isn't there yet with the car. So they wait like 20 minutes and she's still not there. So they're like, what the fuck?

So they kind of like start like walking around looking for her. And all of a sudden Dorothy's white station wagon, it was a Toyota station wagon, comes zipping around the corner, like flying full. what's it called high beams are on and it just drives right past them and takes her right out of the parking lot and fucking disappears into the night. I don't think that was Dorothy. It wasn't. I just feel like it's not Dorothy.

I told you she was not Wilden like that. Right. We know. Someone's wild. She used to drive the speed limit. We know it. We know it. Oh no.

So they're like, what just happened? But then they're like. Very weird. I know. But then they're like, okay, maybe she had some kind of like family emergency. see she has like a younger son so maybe she just had to get there and she couldn't tell us. So they like wait for her at the hospital for two hours before calling anybody, which I'm like, you probably got to call somebody a little sooner.

He's like, I'm dying of a spider bite. Like I just want to go home. I need to take my prescription. I'd like to shower. I got to eat a piece of bread with this. I can't eat it out of empty stomach. There's no vending machines at this hospital. What am I going to take this with?

So they're like. yeah, like something's wrong. So they call Donna's parents and they're like, hey, like, what's up? Like, what's the family emergency or like, what's the tea? And they're like, what's the tea? And they're like, what are you talking about? Like, we thought that she was with you at the hospital. Like, she hasn't come home. Oh, God. So they call the police. And I read in one source that the police were like, oh, like, she'll be home. So like, that's cool. Oh, great. Imagine if the police are just like, she'll be home. It didn't say that to. But it said that they like they didn't treat it like they were too much. Yeah. So, hold on. I totally lost my place again. Okay, so nothing came that night.

Like Dorothy didn't come home and they didn't get any calls or anything. But the next day at 4.30 a.m., Dorothy station wagon was found and it had been set on fire and was parked in a back alleyway in Santa Ana. Oh, fuck. That's weird. So then. It's not normal. Yeah. I know.

I would question that. And if that's not bad enough, Vera, it's Vera or Vera? It's V-E-R-A is Dorothy's mom. I think that's Vera. Vera, that's what I would say. I just, this is like so weird, but literally two days ago I was reading a story for my YouTube thing and it was sent in by someone named Vera or Vera. And I kept saying it in Blaze was like, it's Vera.

And I was like, we had a whole conversation about how to pronounce his name. I think it's Vera. And I said it wrong the whole time. It's hard. Pronunciation is real hard as we all know. It is. We're going to say Vera. So we all know that pronunciation is not our strongest.

Just ask Naperville. Oh, I, do you know what? I listened to that episode and then I was like, oh, no, they got, because I'm from the Midwest and I was like, they got shit on for that. I bet you. I bet you a million both. I literally went on Instagram to see. And then, of course, everyone was like freaking out.

And I was like, we still get messages to this day about that. Oh, why. I need to put a warning before that episode that's like, I know. We know. Or like, it'll never end. Thank you for your concern. I pronounce a lot of things wrong. I'm a college dropout.

It's fine. We are all podcasters. We fuck out shit all the time. It's not. It's normal. It's part of our job. All right. So the car is on fire like everything else in the world today.

And then Vera, Dorothy's mom, gets a call. And the man on the phone says, are you related to Dorothy? and she's like, yep. And he goes, I've got her and hangs up. Oh, no. That's all he says. Shivers. Immediately hangs up the phone.

So Vera obviously. Oh, my God. That's her mother? That's her mom. Oh, that just hurt my heart. Yeah. So she calls the police, like, right away to tell them what's going on. And the police tell Jacob, who's Dorothy's father and Vera, the mom, to keep everything super quiet because they're worried about details of the case getting leaked because obviously

that makes it harder, like, when you're interviewing suspects, like, oh, sure. You know, they don't want anybody hearing, like, minor details because then it's like, you could lie about it, as we all know. They keep it close to the chest. So, exactly. I love when you say that. So, Vera and Jacob did listen for, like, a little bit, but then nothing was happening and Dorothy wasn't coming home.

So Jacob was like, fuck this. I'm going to the newspaper. Like, I want this out everywhere. Like, I want people looking for her. Sure. So. I don't know. And also, they kept getting these phone calls every Wednesday.

The caller would always call on Wednesday and, like, taunt them and be like, is Dorothy home? Oh, my God. What a fucking asshole. So fucked up. Like, so fucked up. So he goes to the newspaper. Jacob goes to the newspaper. It's the Santa Ana Register.

And they agree to write a story on Dorothy's case. So the next day, they run the story in the paper. And the editor of the paper, Pat Riley, gets a. call that says, I killed Dorothy Scott. She was my love. I caught her cheating with another man. She denied having someone else. I killed her.

Oh, shit. That doesn't even make sense. It makes no sense. It's a very disproportionate response to the crime. Yes. And if that wasn't bad enough, that's like a direct quote, but there's no other direct quotes. But he went on to say things that only the killer would have known.

He knew the color of the scarf that she was wearing. And which scarf. She changed it. So it's like, even if like somebody had said that before, if they were like, oh, what color was her scarf? They probably would have said black because she hadn't changed to the red one yet. And he knew about Conrad's spider bite, which it's like the only people that would have known about that was Pam, Dorothy, and like the doctors.

And obviously no fucking doctors came out. So Pat calls the police. But unfortunately, the killer always hangs up too soon. So there's no way to trace these calls. Of course. So then they keep getting the calls on Wednesdays. Like for years and years and years, they got these calls on Wednesdays. Years?

Years. Four years after Dorothy's disappearance on August 6th, her remains were found. And her remains were, they were found by a construction worker who also found them next to the remains of a dog. So she was like her remains and then a dog's remains right next to her. Like they were clearly, it was related together. together. Yeah. What the fuck?

Oh, Jesus. And she was wearing a turquoise ring that, like, that's how they identified her. And a watch that the time had stopped on May 29th at 12 a.m. Oh, shit. So that was like hours before her car was found. Oh, damn. Oh, God.

Right after they found that their daughter's remains had been found, Jacob and Vera got two more calls that said, is Dorothy home? What? Mm-hmm. This is so twisted. I've like, so fucked up. Goosepumps. This is Twisty the clown.

Yeah. Like beyond. For sure. Extra. So like I said, they keep getting these calls. And then finally, I guess he would call like in the daytime like when Vera was home alone, which is like even scary. Ew. And he would be able to say like what Vera was wearing and stuff like that.

So obviously he started stalking her too. Oh my God. Can you imagine living that way? No. Absolutely not. Actually, I went downstairs the other night to get like a midnight snack. And I never go downstairs without any because right now I'm. at Annie's house and I'm like, I don't want to go downstairs without you. And I finally got the courage up

to do it. And as I'm walking down the stairs, I get an unknown caller who called me at midnight. I was like, what the fuck? And they called two times in a rut when I was like, I'm, no, thank you. No, thanks. Did they leave a message? No, thank God. I don't really. I think my voice mail box is full. I wish it was like, this is CVS because then I'm like, okay. Because I always get like, I don't know. That actually doesn't make it much better. prescription or it's been ready all day. Could be. I wish it was one of those things where you win a free cruise and it's like,

woo. I don't even know what that is. You've never got one of those calls. When you answer it just does this like fog horn all of a sudden. Well, that's fucking awful. My grandpa gets so mad. They're so funny. Now I'm mad I've never won a free cruise.

Maybe we've got those people. I'll like set it up for your birthday or something. A fake pretend cruise call. I wish that's what it was, man. Well, I'll never know what it was. Watch, they're going to call again. Oh, now I just set myself. Don't.

I don't. Don't put that in the universe. So, yeah, so her remains were found, and then they got two more calls. And the calls finally stopped one night when Vera answered the phone and the caller must have said, like, are you related to Dorothy? And she was like, oh, you have the wrong number. And they never called again. What? Isn't that crazy? That was it? That's what she had to do. Be like, I don't know who you are.

So I read one article where they were like, maybe he thought that like they moved or that they changed their phone number because of everything. So he was like, oh, I can't keep calling this one. Fuck, dude. That's. Like, doesn't really make any sense because if he was stalking, he'd know. He's like watching. But they could have changed their phone number without him realizing. That's true. That's true. So, yeah. The issue is that there was like no suspects in this case because like I said before, Dorothy didn't have any. enemies. Like, she very much kept to herself and did her own thing. Um, Sean's dad was looked at, like, very briefly, but he had been living in Missouri and his alibi was like completely tight. Like there was, it couldn't, it wasn't him. Yeah. Um, and like I said, the case has gone cold,

but a lot of Dorothy's friends and actually even her son, Sean now, believes that the killer was this guy named Mike Butler. Um, Mike's sister worked with Dorothy at, the um what was it called the the the swingers um so basically like they think that that's how he always knew what dorothy was doing and like what she was wearing and all that he was usually asking his sister i guess so or he or maybe he would like stop by or something or picking her up or something yeah that's true because everybody said that he was like really unhealthily obsessed with dorothy like he like was very well that'll do it i was good there you go boom exactly and they said that he was a very unstable guy and he was rumored to be involved in cult activity, which is

interesting because if you think about it, she was found next to like a dead dog. So that happens a lot in cults. Animal sacrifices. But unfortunately again, Mike passed away in 2014, according to an article I read by Brenda Thornlow. And Dorothy's parents have also passed away. but her son Sean is like really determined to get justice. Poor Sean. What a badass.

He like spends his time trying to figure out who did this. But he's really dead set that it was the guy Mike. You know, I like I remember this vaguely now. I mean, I definitely like my reactions were very genuine because I really forgot this. I can you imagine. I'm like, great actress. I can't act that well yet. But I remember the guy Mike Butler, was that his name?

Yep. Yeah. So I remember reading too that like that's why they think maybe his voice was familiar. Like if he had stopped by the store once or twice and she like didn't know him well, but she's like, I've heard the voice before. Exactly. That makes sense. So creepy. I think that seems to be the best case scenario because, or not best case scenario, but like the best.

Yeah. I want Sean to know for sure now. Yeah. I know. Like I want him to like have evidence. Like Sean, can we help you? I know. That's the thing.

There was like no. evidence. And I think it obviously doesn't help that it was in the 80s because it's like you can't trace anything and, you know, and like the car was set on fire so you can't get any prints or anything. And investigation and crime scene techniques back to that are not exactly on par with today's. So that was our twisty turny can't fire stories. That was twisty. I got some shivers there and I, like I said, I'm sitting underneath the sunlight and it's fucking hot. So your stories too were like so good. I'm going to have to chill. I'm still sitting under that heavenly sunlight.

Yeah. Still burning my retinas. But you look great. Exactly. Oh, thanks. That's all that matters. Oh, guys, that was creepy. I know.

This was so fun. Thanks for having me. I'm sorry. It's over. Yeah, we need a part too. Yeah, we need a part two. I was going to say we should do like a big party. Yes.

That'd be fun. We'll do it on your show next time. Oh, yeah. That would be fun. If we ever figure out how to use Zoom, you know, to record, we'll definitely let you know. We tried, we recorded yesterday and we like we're, I don't want to jigs it, but like I'm pretty sure we finally got it solved because as you know,

I've had some computer issues. So hopefully we've like figured it out. But I don't want to speak too soon because you never know. You never know. It's hard. I mean, this Zoom thing, man, like John was saying this morning that if he had a job that required him to be on Zoom, he would have just quit. Yeah.

Sometimes Blaze goes on it and just turns the screen off and sits there. And I'm like, I think you're supposed to be like on and he's like, I don't want to be. And I'm like, okay, well. I love when I see like people's names in a Zoom meeting, but you like obviously don't see their face. I'm like, I want to do that. But like we're not allowed to. How come? I know.

It's not fair. I should have done that when I told my story. I'm like, you can't, don't look at me. Just goodbye. Like mean girls. Don't look at me. Don't look at me. Well, that was like this morning.

My four year olds had like their Zoom preschool class. It's so cute to watch that. And it's hilarious to watch. It's just pandemonium. Precious. And also terrifying. And I usually just like set them up and then like I go take care of, you know, the youngest or something. And I'm like, all right.

Just don't say anything that's going to get me arrested. Right. Be careful. Like when it popped up as morbid a true crime podcast. Oh my God. Did it really? It happened a couple of weeks ago. I didn't change the thing.

And like the teachers were like, oh, look. Okay. You're here. It's morbid. It was just like the next one. And my best friend texted me. was like, yeah, it says morbid a true crime podcast under your cute kids' faces. And I was like, oh, my, it's the morbid twins.

I was like, precious. That's why my kids don't get play dates right now. Someday they'll thank you. They'll be like, we're cool now. Yeah. You'd be like, this is why you're going to college. I'm like, I'm so sorry. But today, they did a thing where they went through everybody and they were like,

you know, little, you know, blah, blah, what's your favorite animal? And they all had to say their favorite animal. And so they get to my kids who I would like to think are intelligent little four years. No, they are. They always are. I'm sure they are. And one of them goes, they're like, all right, what's your favorite animal? And she goes, a lemon.

Okay, is that why I kept getting tagged on Twitter? I like have a check that people kept, people kept being like, is this, is Christine your child, Elaine? And I was like, what is going on on Twitter? Like, I missed something. It's a crossover. I was reading all of those and I was like, good thing? We're going to record with her tonight. Otherwise, she'd be like she canceled.

I completely forgot about that. That is so. See, that is a very smart child, if you ask me. I think. I was like, I think she did it like on purpose. Like if I know my nieces, she did it on purpose. To be like silly. Yeah.

We need school back. I think that's like, I was like, no shit. I think that's so cute. Just like, I don't know, being silly, being creative. I like it. I'm sure. her teachers, all she heard from her teachers was my husband being like, no, an animal. Like he's just like, what? That's not an animal. He's like, you know your animals. He's like, you know

your animals. Then she said like cheetah or something. I was like, why? What? Like, how'd you go from lemon to cheat? I just love kids brains. They're just amazing. It's like fascinating. Oh, it's great to watch what comes out of their mouths. That makes me happy. That makes me very happy. I'm very proud. It was so apt for today. It was apt. I swear to God. I got some, and I haven't even checked, but I got all these tag's like is Christine your child and I was like what the fuck is you're like what did she tweet about me yeah I was like what did I do I usually I just avoid it because I'm like I've probably said something terribly stupid so I just ignore it but this one I'm actually like into right that's the plot twist for this whole episode there it is Christine is actually my child oh shit

math doesn't work but it makes up the mic and on that I'm actually four we hope we don't keep that weird. I'm a drunk four-year-old. It's fine. It fits. I told you she's highly intelligent. Yeah. M calls me a drunk toddler all the time and it's like, so there you go. I think that's a great compliment. That just means you're a lot of fun. See? Yeah. Yeah. You're Wilden. Wilden. Left and right. We should name this twisty Wilden. And everyone would be like, diet wilden. Diet or what was it? Crystal twist. Oh God. No, it's just going to be a tongue. Crystal Wilden light. Crystal Wild is my favorite thing that came out of this.

Crystal Wild and light. Light. Oh, my God. Incredible. Wow. That'll never be not funny to me. Oh. Well, before we wrap this up, Christine, plug, plug, plug.

Because you've got all kinds of good shit happening now. I don't know. I feel like there's just chaos on my end. And everyone just needs to hear it and see it. I mean, the main one, not like, we're like, you know, our, we're soul partners. I don't know. we um and i have a podcast called that's why we drink it's uh similar we talk about spooky shit and um ghost and murder and you couldn't find that on any podcast app um and it's pretty rare it's the best i do say so much

i'm so honored uh and also what else uh oh i host a podcast my brother that's definitely very different but it's a comedy show where you oh really oh thanks guys i never know people like know about it all the time I love it. Really? Because it's so much smaller, so I never know if people will actually know what it is. No, it's great. That's called Beach, you see and New Water 2 Wet and we read one-star reviews. It helps me get over, like, my issues with people saying mean things on the internet.

Oh, it's brilliant. It's brilliant. Yes. And, oh, I started a YouTube channel recently. Yes. Good luck to me, because, again, I'm like a grandma. I'm trying to figure this shit out. But it's called the X-teen files, and I just read people's creepy crime stories, like,

true crime listener stories sort of in what I like to think is a comedic fashion but you know I'm working on it it's pretty new it's pretty new but yeah so any of those you know you can come find me if any of this intrigued you at all but I don't blame you if I'm such a good idea too if I'm too wild and light you know I get it too crystal wild and light I get it you know it's not for everybody it's life of wild and it's hard I'll just read your one star reviews on my other show and I'll get over it. Yeah. Exactly.

That's seriously my favorite way to cope with that ever. It really helps, honestly. It really, because I, because I just end up going and reading everybody else's one-star reviews that I look up to. You're like, I'm not alone. You're just like, what is wrong? Yeah, you just like stop trusting people. You're like, why would you say that about this person? Yeah.

Right. I start looking at like all the podcasts that I look up to. I look at their one-star reviews and I'm like, we're okay. Yeah, yeah. I've done that too. And then I'm just like, damn. But then it makes me sense. It makes you wonder.

I'm going to like piss them off directly. You're like, do I know you? And like, did I do something to you by accident? Did I step on your toe one day? It's entirely possible. I don't know. Well, you know, that happened once with my brother. Like, we got this really weird once our review that was like, uh, Alex, he had a girlfriend,

but he slept with my friend's wife. And we were like, what? And like my brother's just like the most innocent. Like, you know, he's just like so anti-conflict and like would never age. cheat on someone or be like, sleep with someone's wife. It was so random. He's like, wrong Alex, wrong day.

Yeah, and it was like so specific. And it was like in Charlotte, North Carolina. And we were like, we've never even been there. Like, it was super weird. And then I like went and found that username on Reddit. It turns out my brother had like some Reddit argument with this guy like months before. And the guy like found him and found his podcast and made up a story. And started reviewing like one star.

Now I'm like, you know what? That's a scary one star review like making up. weird shit about my brother cheating on people like well and also that has nothing to do with your podcast like obviously that didn't happen but like what does it have to do your fucking podcast he could have just written like worst podcast ever right exactly but like he wrote this whole wild and to me i was like alksana is there something you're like not telling me you're like let's have a talk he's like we live together i've never been to charlotte north Carolina do you have like a very torrid secret life that you tell me about i was like we need to unpack some of this but yeah so

I mean, after that, I was like, people can just kind of write whatever they want. So sometimes it's got to let it go. Sometimes she's got to laugh and be like, all right. Well, yeah, it's tough. But the good outweighs the bad most of the time. Exactly. It always does. It always does in the end.

But everybody go check all of those out because they are all equally amazing and hilarious. Oh, thank you. So everybody definitely needs to go check this out. And Christine, thank you so much for coming. I know. Thank you so much. Oh, you made my day and my life. Thank you so much.

I'm like such a huge fan and... We're huge fans of you. I was going to say, this is like insane that this happened. When I DM'd you at first, I was like, I'm Christine and you're like, yeah, like, we know you. Like, we follow you. And I was like, okay, I didn't know if you knew me. I just were like reaching out like a weird fan. No, we're like, it's only our dream to have you both about the show.

So, well, it's a real life honor. So thank you guys. This was so much fun. It'll definitely have to happen again. Yes, we'll have to do a big group Zoom whenever we figure out how to do that on our hands. Absolutely. That's happening. And Ash, can you, are you going to be able to do a but not so weird that for this one?

Yes. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's happening. Now I'm nervous. I'm going to turn off my camera. It's happening.

I'm sorry. Yeah, turn your camera off. There you go. Well, we have to do, you have to do it weird with me. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, we hope you guys enjoyed this episode.

and we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. But that's weird thing I have a scavenger home with your church and you sign up all these little postage stamps and it doesn't make any sense at all. I'm like, really who wrote those because I'm pretty terrified of it. Not so weird that you bring a box of sex toys to your neighbor because that's fucked up. And it's even more fucked up if they're not sex toys and is actually a sected headed. Not so weird that you're calling people and you're like, are you home and they're not home because you know they're not home because you killed them. So don't keep it.

It's that weird. Bye. Don't do it. I'm like hot and that was really hard. I hope that sounded okay. That like made me hot. I'm like, so amped. I always feel like I have to like day. I know. Was this coffee decaf? I don't know. No joke. When I literally listen to the episodes, I like do that. I'm like, oh my God, my God. It's so exciting. Like a fucking actual weirdo. I love it. Yes. We're honored to have you among the weirdos. Yes.