Morbid - The Murder of Mandy Stavik

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

In late November 1989, college freshman Mandy Stavik returned to her hometown of Acme, Washington to celebrate the holidays with her family. On the afternoon of November 24, the day after Thanksgiving, Mandy told her family she was going for a run. When she still hadn’t returned that evening, her mother became concerned and called around to her friends, but none had heard from her. When she still hadn’t returned the next morning, the panic set in, and the search began.For three days, the residents of Acme, Washington undertook an increasingly desperate search for Mandy Stavik and were heartbroken when her body was eventually located in the shallow water of the Nooksack River. Local police began an intense investigation, but after months of dead ends and dwindling leads, the case wound down and eventually went cold.Mandy Stavik’s death would likely have remained unsolved, were it not for a tenacious cold case detective, who in 2009 began running old DNA samples against samples collected from suspects over the last two decades.Thank you to the fantastical David White for research assistanceReferencesAssociated Press. 1989. "Amanda Stavik's brother also died tragically." Lewiston Tribune, December 1.Ferm, Carol. 1989. "A flood of memories, a torrent of tears." The Bellingham Herald, December 3: 1.—. 1989. "Community's sense of peace is shattered." The Bellingham Herald, November 29: 1.—. 1989. "Family and friends keep a vigil of hope." The Bellingham Herald, November 26: 11.—. 1989. "Loss angers, saddens classmate." The Bellingham Herald, November 29: 2.—. 1989. "Reward offered." The Bellingham Herald, November 27: 1.—. 1989. "Teen presumed kidnapped." The Bellingham Herald, November 26: 1.Ferm, Carol, and Cathy Logg. 1989. "Search for missing teen continues." The Bellingham Herald, November 27: 1.—. 1989. "Stavik's body found in Nooksack." The Bellingham Herald, November 28: 1.Logg, Cathy. 1989. "Clues elusive in Stavki's death." The Bellingham Herald, November 29: 1.—. 1989. "Investigators get many tips in Stavik case." The Bellingham Herald, December 1: 13.—. 1989. "Police issue a warning about human predators." The Bellingham Herald, December 20: 11.—. 1989. "Sheriff seeks pudgy-faced man for questioning in Stavik case." The Bellingham Herald, December 3: 13.—. 1990. "Stavik case awaits tests." The Bellingham Herald, March 20: 1.—. 1992. "Stavik 'suspect' files suit." The Bellingham Herald, March 21: 1.—. 1990. "Garment ID'd tentatively as Mandy's." The Bellingham Press, January 28: 15.Mittendorf, Robert. 2017. "Arrest in 1989 killing - sheriff credits DNA." The Bellingham Herald, December 14: A1.Pratt, Denver. 2018. "Defense challenges DNA evidence in '89 slaying." The Bellingham Herald, August 11: A1.—. 2019. "Defense in murder trial opening: 'No one knows what happened to Ms. Stavik'." The Bellingham Herald, May 11: A1.—. 2017. "First-degree murder charge filed in 1989 kiling of Stavik." The Bellingham Herald, December 15: A1.—. 2019. "'I wanted to do the right thing for Mandy,' Bass' co-worker testifies." The Bellingham Herald, May 17: A1.Sirken, Alec. 2016. How two moms chatting at a water park helped crack a Thanksgiving cold case murder. July 16. Accessed May 18, 2023. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mandy-stavik-case-how-two-moms-chatting-at-a-water-park-helped-crack-thanksgiving-cold-case-murder/.State of Washington vs. Timothy Bass. 2021. 80156-2-I (The Court of Appeals for the State of Washington, June 1) Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Bob. And this is morbid. Mini, mini, mini, mini, mini, mini, mini, mini morbid. Mini morbid, mini morbid, mini morbid. Just kidding, it's Ash. And it's a mini morbid, but again. But it's not.

Those are a thing of the past. We're just using the intro music because some of you like it. So if you don't like it, I have a personal qualm with that. I don't know if you notice. I composed that song. She did. She composed it one day. She composed it.

She recorded it. I am so overtired right now. Yeah. It's been quite a couple of weeks. We've been very, very busy. I'm like slap happy as fuck right now. Yeah, it's just been a lot going on. And then my dog Bailey has been going through a lot of stuff.

She's having a couple of like procedures done because she has. She's just having an old lady issue. Yeah, she's going blind and she's gone blind, really. So we're having surgery on one of her eyes soon. So it's just been like back and forth of the vets a million times. We had to take her to the dentist yesterday. We had to take her to the dentist. Far away.

It's been a time. We had to travel in the HOV lane to get there. We did. It was a journey. It was a lot. It was. But we got a piece of a pizza. A piece of pizza.

But yeah, so it's just been a lot, you know, personally and a lot professionally has been going on. And it's all good stuff. It's just very busy. Yeah. So that's why we are. going to be doing a Lori Valo update. We just, we just got to squeeze it in somewhere and it's just, it'll get in there. Where does it fit? It's like that baby toy where they, like the baby has the square and they're just trying to jam it in the triangle place. Yeah, and you're like, that's not where it fits.

No. And you're like, where does it fit? And then you find out there is no triangle space. There is no triangle spot. That's what it is. That was a beautiful metaphor. So deep. You're welcome. Like an ocean. No, I think it's good. It'll come out next week. Yeah, there's a triangle space. I promise you what's coming out next week, we're not going to commit to a day because when we do that, we get in trouble. Yeah, and Lord knows there's just too much going on for us to commit to a day. Because you're getting your, that's an extra episode. I was going to say, you're still getting. So you're still getting your two episodes. Don't worry. We're not being like, oh, we're just going to fluff away a second episode. No, you're still getting the scheduled episodes. That one is just kind of nebulous at this point.

It's just going to pop in and say, howdy neighbor. It's going to be like, hello, I'm here to ruin your day with terrible details about child's deaths. Good day. So I hope you're ready for that. And we are finally at part three of the Ash-centric episode that everyone has been waiting for, including me. Also, thank you so much to the people that said I got better at my research. That made me feel warm in my tummy. It did.

It made her feel really good. And it's true. Yeah. You're killing it. Thank you so much. And we're all just hanging at the edge of our seats. So let's just do this, okay? Let's do it.

First of all, I'd like to say that I cried doing this last part. Yeah, this part's going to be the bad part. It's the bad part. And also, so I just want to shout it out one more time. The book, Double Jeopardy by Bob Hill, I actually posted it on the morbid Instagram today. And I'll put it in the show notes. If you haven't read that, like when you're finished listening to this, you got to go read it. Because there's like what I say.

And then there's way more that like I just couldn't get into everything. But he goes like so deep into like what actually happened. And it made me actually cry. It's a good thing you didn't go too deep. Oh, no. I'd cry in a podcast and like we all know I've done that way too many time. So when we left off last time, Marianne was heading to the ice cream shop to meet Mel. And she was going to try to get him to talk about what happened to Brenda. And she was wired, right? She was wired. And the FBI was like

waiting to hop on Mel and be like, you're arrested. You're a bad guy. You're a real bad guy. You're a bad dude. You know what? If I was the FBI guy, I would knock his fucking mint chocolate chip out of his hand so quick. Me too. And you know what? Ice cream is a running theme in this and we'll get to that later. And I love ice cream. Oh, me too. So did Mel. Oh, no. Well, so they reminded that, you know, the FBI reminded, you know, the Phoebe, the Phoebe. They reminded Mary Ann to try to say Brenda's name while she was in the car with Mel and also mentioned the place where Brenda was buried. She was like, or they were like, tell Mel that you're worried because the land where we buried Brenda. They wanted her to tell him that it was purchased and that they were going to be

building something over it. And Brenda's body was going to be discovered. Oh, okay. So she's supposed to act like, oh, shit, Mel. They're going to find the body. Now, that's not true. Like, they weren't planning on building anything. But that's just a good way to trap him. A good way to trap him. And Marianne's boyfriend, his name was Butch Inlow. Of course it was. Duh. Yeah. I would expect nothing less. Nothing less. And Butchie boy was like connected with the town because he was a volunteer fireman at one point. And he was just connected. He, like, knew everything that was happening.

So if Mel had asked her, like, how the fuck do you know that they're planning on building something there? She'd be like, well, butch, told me. She'd be like, well, butchie boy, said so. It was butch. That's what happened. Now, all she had to do was say Brenda's name and mention the land that they had both buried her, and it would have been a slam dunk the funk.

Great five reference. You're welcome. We need to get a slam dunk the funk reference into like every other episode. We need to make that like a sound board effect. It really needs to be. Apparently, you know those kids in class who just like don't follow directions no matter how many times the teacher is like cut along the dotted lines? Sure do.

And they like cut like a snowflake and you're like, well, cool, but no. But that's not what I asked you to do. Marian's that kid except like doesn't do the snowflake. She just like fucks the whole thing up. She just murders someone. Correct. Yeah. And she murdered somebody and she fucks everything up.

So she gets in the car with Mel and this conversation lasted 13 minutes. she again remember in the first time at the apartment she never said brenda's name on the phone call in this 13 minute conversation where all they instructed her to do was say the name and the grave site she didn't say brenda's name once not one fucking time come on and so okay so the conversation last 13 minutes she never says brenda's name and she never mentions an actual grave site um she said the F, she tells the FBI, I'm like so high. She bought, she's so much. She tells Mel. The emotion is here. I know. I'm, I'm okay. She tells Mel that the FBI knew what was going on. They were closing in on her and they asked her to take a lie detector test.

And that's when Mel was like, what the fuck? Like, no, you can't take any tests. They can't make you. Like, no way. Little did he know she had already taken it and like failed with flying colors. Yeah, absolutely. Flav La Foll. Foller. her staster. So he's like, trying to tell her that she's a fucking idiot. She needs to follow his lead and just outsmart them by being smug as hell like he does. Just be like Mel. Just, just mel it up. And he was like, you know what, Marian, this is all a game. And like, you just have to learn how to play the game. He didn't really say that, but that's like basically what he was saying. I want to punch him. Oh, I want to dick punch him. So after Mel's monologue about how

good he was at playing the FBI game and how he started, like, how Marianne had to start doing it like he did, Mary Ann moved on to the point of the property being sold. Instead of saying the grave, like she was supposed to, she said, well, you know, like the property has been sold, right? That could be any fucking property. Literally anything. Like, that could be the Hilliards down the street or the big Y over there or like Farmer Joe's hut stand.

That's the most innocuous thing you could ever say. It means nothing. Literally nothing. But again, Mel treated her like an idiot. And he was like, you know, they're not going to be doing anything right. way because bad weather's coming. And even if they did, they probably were just going to put like a parking lot over it and they wouldn't have to clear the land too much. So honestly, it would just be unfortunately burying Brenda Moore. Yeah, it would be easier for them. Exactly. I mean, again,

they weren't planning on doing anything. He then said something along the lines of, and I quote, that place we dug is not, is not shallow. So don't let it get you rattled. Besides, that one area by where the safe is does not have any trees by it. The trees are down if you remember, so it's not a big deal. If worse comes to worse and something needs to be done, I'll handle it. Okay. So go find those downed trees. Yep.

Go find those down trees. And he definitely said, well, so they thought that he said dug. But the issue was the recording wasn't super clear. And there would be a big debate on whether he said the place we dug or the place we got because it wasn't clear enough. And then the other debate over whether he said the area by the safe or the area by the site. Oh. Because it just wasn't clear enough.

So now people were like, wait, a safe? Like what's safe? So it wasn't a safe. So the investigators had been super excited prior to this. And all Marianne had to do, like I said, was just the Brenda's name and have Mel confirm that they buried her. And obviously that didn't happen. and now there was going to be this long, ongoing debate about what was actually said in the recording.

So either way, there was not enough to arrest Mel right then and there. And they were really bummed because that's what they had originally hoped for. Yeah. So in the meantime, they were searching the area where Marianne said that she and Mel went out a week or so before killing Brenda to dig Brenda's grave. Oh, my God. And then that's where on September 24th, after they tortured and killed her, that's where they placed her body in the clothing. So they also had people talking to Marianne to get more of an idea of what happened to Brenda. And she gave them full fucking details.

Oh, boy. Now, we've briefly kind of mentioned what happened to Brenda, but I haven't gone into anything in complete detail. So this is a trigger warning. It does involve rape. If that's not something you want to hear about, fast forward a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. So on the night that Brenda was murdered.

murdered, Mel had told her that he wanted to take her to a friend to get some of her jewelry appraised. Now, I don't know if that's the truth because you would think that if she was going to break up with him, she wouldn't go with him to do that. Yeah. Or so who knows what the actual story is. Because we're also going, we're relying on what Marianna is saying. Right. But one way or another, he got her to Marianne's house. Okay. Because that friend was not a jewelry expert at all, but it was Marianne, who was waiting as they had already planned. The plan had been sent into motion in the weeks and even months prior. Her back door was already locked.

And as soon as Brenda and Mel came inside, the door behind Brenda was locked too. So she was completely trapped in there. Now, Mel had a checklist and a camera ready to go. He controlled the list and Marianne controlled the camera. He explained to Brenda that this was a sex therapy class for her to get better at things like this. And obviously, Brenda was mortified and stood up to go home. And he was like, nope, like you're not going anywhere. We're going to go through the checklist because he literally had a checklist of things that he was going to do to her. And he was like, when I get to the end of it,

you can go home. That is, I can't even, no part of my brain can put myself in that position. Well, it just doesn't even sound real. It doesn't. Like, I'm trying to think of how horrible that would, like, how terrifying that would be. And my brain won't even let me. conjure that. And it's like you go to meet him and this list is in his pocket the whole time probably. And there's like a camera there and he's like, okay. And then this scary Marianne lady and you're like, because if you see Marianne, oh yeah, if she was standing in front of me with a camera and this guy's talking about a list of things they're going to do, I'd be like, oh, no, no, no. This is brutal and horrific. So Mel must have got a hold of her and told her she was, she'd be able to go home later, but he was going to get his list of

things done. Oh. So first he had her like stand up and he took photos of her while she had her clothes on, straight on, then left, then right, almost like a mugshot. What the fuck? Then he had her take her clothes off. And he also had her remove her jewelry at this point. And he took the same photos of her in just her undergarments. He had her pose for one photo with her hands behind her head. And then this is where it gets like absolutely horrific.

When he finished taking those pictures, he had her kneel in front of Marianne's glass coffee table, the one that she still had in her apartment when investigators had questioned her. And these investigators had even eaten off this table while setting up the sting operation without knowing that this was the fucking table. So we had her kneel in front of that table. And then he tied her arms to the legs of the table on either side. Oh, no. And it gets really bad here.

He then sodomized her both himself and then with a vibrating massager, which he had that had already been at Marianne's house because he already set it up. And he had like a bag of shit ready to go. Of course. And he used K.Y. Jelly on that. I know that's a weird detail to include, but it comes back up later. Okay. Marianne was taking pictures that Mel wanted the entire time.

He was like instructing her what to take pictures of. He wanted close-ups of the abuse itself, close-ups of Brenda's face. Oh. And he told Brenda that he was going to show these to like her attorneys and like people, like high-profile people that she knew. What the fuck? Meanwhile, he knew that, so he was just insinuating fear because that's not at all. He knew the whole time he was going to kill her. He was like, you're not leaving here. He let Brenda use the bathroom after 45 minutes of being tied to that coffee table before he moved on to the next phase of the torture.

He let her go to the bathroom, but Marianne had to go with her. Can you imagine being Marianne? Can you imagine being that evil of a human being that you were like, I'm going to participate in the this like the absolute degradation of this innocent woman. I have to wonder if she had more involvement than she said she did because she obviously is going to try to paint herself like the least possible. I was scared and I just want to like, I'm sorry. He made me do it. This honestly, that goes along with what our other case is going to be this week. The Myra Henley and Ian Brady case because Myra tries to pretend she's like this innocent flower. Yeah. And these kind of people, woman or man, who does that and is like, I was scared of my partner and that's why I did it, fuck off.

If you are participating in that kind of shit. Yeah, you're fucked up. No. There's something wrong with you. Well, and there's people. I think of like the toy box killer. Yeah. Like that girl was fucking terrified for her life, but somehow she managed to escape.

Exactly. And it's like she was like completely naked and bound. And it's like, you were just standing in your kitchen, like waiting for this to be over. You could have walked out the back door and gotten help at any fucking point. Like, we're talking about Marianne, yeah. That's what I mean, Marianne. It's like, are you kidding? Like, Marian at any point could have, it's her house.

It's her house. It's her house. You could run out that back door. Or, and go get help and be like something, some shit is going on in my house. I didn't know this was going to happen. Somebody get the police. And instead, you sat there. Or before anything happened, she could have told anybody that this was going to happen.

Anytime. And a sting operation could have been set up way before Brenda had even died. Or when she's bringing Brenda into the bathroom, they could have sat there and been like, what are we going to do? You get him from the left, I get him from the right. We're going to take this fucker down together. She could have done that, but she didn't. She didn't because she wants to act. She was part of it. She wants to act like she was so afraid of Mel. I'm sure to a degree she was afraid of him a little bit. Cool. He's a scary guy. Also, she was in love with him. Like she wanted to be with him and Brenda was in the way.

Yeah. She was happy to do this to Brenda. Absolutely. So she sat there wiping her tears like an angel. And then after that, they went to the bedroom where Mel tied Brenda into multiple positions, raping her, sodomizing her. He forced her to perform Felicio. Marianne was apparently involved at one point physically under Mel's instruction, quote unquote. And she also used the paddle that Mel had previously brought over to strike Brenda in the backside with. Oh, my God. Like over and over again. But it was brief, of course.

And then she just went back to taking pictures, according to. to her. That's always the situation. I was always, I was only, I only did it for a minute. And then I didn't like it. And I, I really didn't like it at all. Exactly. It's like, okay. We, we totally believe that. No. So then she said that she needed to go to the kitchen at one point to calm down and have a glass of water. And also it's like, I'm sorry, you need to calm down and have a glass of water? Oh, you need to hydrate? How about Brenda? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. You need to calm down? Okay. Yeah, totally. Take your time. And so she said that when she was having her nice, refreshing glass of water, that she heard things quiet down.

And Mel finally came into the kitchen and told her that he used chloroform that he came prepared with days earlier to smother Brenda with. He said, Brenda didn't suffer. She died peacefully. Oh, she didn't suffer? She didn't suffer. Cool. Like, okay.

Yeah, I saw no, I heard no suffering in that. No, nothing at all. Not at all. Then he went back to the bedroom and he tied her, he retied her in a different position. that was like almost like the fetal position. Her, excuse me, her knees were pressed against her face and her feet were touching her bottom and her hands were tied by her ankles. So she was essentially like a hog tied.

Almost, yeah, pretty much. And she was like completely like contorted. He wrapped her in multiple trash bags and wraps tape around them. And Marianne said he ripped the tape off with his teeth, which I feel like if you picture that for a second. It just adds for some reason to like the horror of everything. It's like animalistic. It is. And you can picture him in a rage just being like, rubbing it off with his teeth. And he left DNA on that. So, yeah, he didn't leave DNA probably everywhere. But well, I don't know. So then they put her clothing because remember she had to like strip right away. They put her clothing in a

separate set of trash bags and they carried both bags out to the grave that again they had pre-dug. And when they came back, Mel went out to Brenda's car. He saw. sliced a small cut in that rear tire. He put a nail in there and he told Marianne to follow him out to the highway. Follow me out to the interstate. I'm going to, I think he drove it until like it wouldn't drive anymore because it was the tire was getting bad. Yeah. Left it. Got in Marian's car. Marianne dropped him off at his mom's house, which was like also his house. And he was like, mine at home. Wow. And then he also told Marianne, don't call me until I call you. Wow. So it's like, was it worth it girl? Yeah, he doesn't sound like he's super, he's just not that into you.

He don't love you. Oh, no. And also this, I just think this is fucking hilarious. Marion thought that she was going to get Brenda's jewelry, but Mel took it with him. What of? I thought I was going to get her jewelry, but I was so scared of him and I didn't want to participate at all. At all. Fuck right off. But that diamond ring and that gold bracelet, though. But I was going to get that. Literally go fuck yourself. Yeah, that's, I, oh, I can't. And so. Not only did Mel take the jewelry with him, but he also took the film from the camera. Of course he did. There was three rolls of film, 112 photos in total.

He wanted that for himself. And 12. Oh, well, we're going to talk about that later when we talk about Robert Rhodes. Oh, boy. Ben Rhodes. Robert Ben Rhodes. Yes. Okay.

I thought, I was like, yeah. You were right. So Brenda's body was discovered at 156 p.m. on January 11th with the help of a cadaver dog named Bingo. Bingo. I feel like he's just social. finds it's really morbid but morbid. But I wonder when he finds like people who are like, bingo. Oh my God, imagine. And then I wrote in my notes and another dog named Marianne Shore because she was there too. And I just felt like that needed to be sound. Woof, woof, woof, you nasty,

nasty twat lady. George Nichols was the medical examiner who did the autopsy on Brenda's body. And actually at the time he was going to start the autopsy, he got a call from his friend, Dr. Larry Luman, who was the chief medical examiner in Oregon. Oregon. Yeah, in Oregon. And Larry and George both examined Brenda's body. Isn't that kind of crazy? I love when pathologists will tag team.

That happens a lot. It is cool. Yeah. Because then you just get more eyes on things. Right. So because Brenda's body had been buried for almost a year and a half at this point, a year and a half, it was obviously very badly decomposed. Her facial features were gone, unrecognizable.

Her hair was gone. and I meant to look up how to say this, but you'll know. Atopacere, at a paceray. At a what now? The wax stuff, like Hallie Ellingworth, that case. Because it's like adipose tissue that's turned into. Adiposaire. Adiposaire.

Yeah, you're right. I looked it up at like five o'clock this morning. You're right, you're right. So, and that's what happened to the Hallie Ellingworth case, remember? Oh, yeah. The lax. Yeah, like the lady in the lake. Yes, the lady in the lake.

I was trying to look it up this morning and it was like, I was looking up the lady in the water. And it was like that movie and I was like, that girl looks real scary. She looks very cinematic. This is weird. She's like beautiful but terrifying. She has makeup on. I'm confused. So adiposea had turned her soft tissue into a fatty wax like texture.

Ah, soap. Soap. And that's not fun to do an autopsy on because it's not a lot you can get from that. Meaning there was no DNA left. And if there had been, it was gonzo. Suponification. Which now I kind of wonder, actually, because I feel like the tape DNA, if he did rip it with his teeth, would that have gone away a year and a half later?

I mean, maybe. To me, that was like, ooh. Right. He used his teeth. You know, I mean, he uses teeth. Maybe she was embellishing. She might have embellished. There was nothing found to link no physical evidence.

I mean, it's possible that it was gone by then, too. Yeah, because it was also a very moist area. Exactly. So it's like, maybe you could get. It's something, but maybe not. Yeah, you just never know. Anyways, there were a ton of ropes around Brenda's body to untie around her head, knees, wrists, and stomach.

Everything was tied, and all of the ropes that were tied were, like, tied to each other. So, like, a rope around her neck was also connected to one on her wrist. And, like, one on her abdomen was also on her knee. You know what I mean? Yeah, so she wouldn't be able to stretch or move anything. To do anything. And George Nichols said that he had never seen a body tied with that many knots and that the murderer, if he was this careful with his knots, this package obviously meant a lot to him. Which is like, obviously it doesn't mean that like he loves Brenda so much.

No, it just means like he was taking care to make sure he did this right. Exactly. Gross. Brenda's autopsy, obviously, like I said, was so hard to do. They had to cut her hands off to see if they could send them out to a different, like, lab so that way they could get fingerprints. They had to soak her hands and then inject them with these chemicals in hopes to get a print. That's a new thing that they've like perfected now too. They were able to get a print so that helped confirm that it was her, but also dental records had to be pulled too because just she was so badly decomposed a year and a half in like a moist

area. Yeah. And wrapped in a plastic bag too. Yeah. And multiple plastic bags. Like horrible. So the cause of death ultimately was ruled a homicide, but like I said, so hard to determine. He couldn't really say what killed her really, but it was of homicide nature. Yeah, they could tell. They look at how she was packaged and they're like, yeah, I don't think this was natural. Yeah. And they did think that asphyxiation had something to do with it. So.

That makes sense. During the autopsy. But then you wonder, like, are they, you know, she could be bullshitting. And it's like, did they put her in that bag when she was still alive? It's actually so crazy that you say that because one of the jurors thought the same exact thing. Because he said he used, like, chloroform. She could, like, that doesn't necessarily kill you. What if she woke up?

She could have. Can you fucking imagine? No. The whole thing is a fucking nightmare. It's so crazy that you said that, though. I just wondered that. One of the jurors thought that. And he did say that he, or Marianne said that he waited for the pulse to go away.

But can I go away? when you're unconscious or am I done? Well, and he's not a medical doctor, so he could, it could have slowed. No, he's literally just an asshole. He could have, it could have slowed and he just didn't feel it. He could have been feeling the wrong spot. A lot of people think they know where the pulse is. Pulse. A lot of people think they

know where the pulse is, you know. I didn't have dental work done, so I'm not listening for that. Call them out 2020. Call them out 2020. No, so a lot of people think they know where the pulse is and where to find it, but they're like right next

to it. And they'll be like, oh, shit, there's no pulse. And then you think you're dead and you're not. And you're alive. Well, that's a horrible thought. Also, this is bananas. And like, this is just like unsolved. During the autopsy, it was also noted that Brenda had recently had a full hysterectomy. Wow. Strangely enough, her own gynecologist had not operated. Huh. None of her friends and family knew anything about it. And she hadn't taken any time off work. What? And that a hysterectomy is like an insanely painful thing to recover from. You're having organs taken out of your bones. Your fallopian tubes, your uterus, your everything.

Like, you're taking literally several organs out of your body. That is a major surgery. Nobody knew anything about it. And you have to have time to recover from that. Isn't that the weirdest thing you've ever heard? That's bizarre. The most bizarre. And he was like, no, like she doesn't have it.

And, oh, and he could see that the incision was. like pretty fresh, so it was pretty recent. What? And her gynecologist looked like way back in her file and he also, he was just like, no, I know that we didn't do that. I know I did not perform here's her file. What? No. Wow, that's bizarre. And obviously, Mel's not a medical doctor. He did not perform a fucking hysterectomy, but it's just like, what? So who did? And like, where did you, when did you recover from that? Yeah, that's strange. Just bizarre. Very strange. Well, Mel was arrested just a day before Brenda's body was discovered, and in the days following, he was indicted on charges of murder, kidnapping, sodomy, sexual abuse, robbery, and tamping, and tamping it down, and tampering with

physical evidence. Good. The state was seeking the death penalty. Bad mail. Now, unfortunately, Marianne Ho-Face was only indicted on a charge of tampering with evidence because- That is bullshit. A whole bunch of bullshit. it, but she got like a Carla Hamoka deal.

Of course she did the deal with the devil. Yep, the deal. That's what, um, it's, I figured out who said it. I said it last time and I was like, I don't really know who said it. It was, um, Ernie Jasmine. He was the prosecutor and he was like, sometimes you just, it was in his closing arguments. He was like, sometimes you just got to make a deal with a small devil to get the big devil. And it's true.

But she's not even a small devil. She's not, but I guess in this case she was. She's like a moderate size devil. I think they're both Satan. Uh, so the trial kept getting delayed. because of things, this is bananas, the tape of the ice cream shop discussion got leaked to the media. That doesn't happen by, like, that's not an accident. So what happened was, I guess in trials like this, the prosecution and the defense have to put, like, what they're going to use in their arguments.

Like, they have to, like, show the other person. Yeah, that's like, it's called something. there's like discovery it's just that's what it is it was discovery it's called something it's called something yeah they have to show them exactly what's going to be in there you can't bring you can't like blind sign somebody yeah and everything has to be approved through the judge obviously but um but that's what happened it got leaked through the discovery oh but it's like the other lawyer didn't the like the defense attorney obviously he didn't leak it because why the fuck would he do that that would not be good for him and he was pissed wow so the trial got delayed because of that but also

people around Louisville or Louisville or no matter how I say you're going to get mad at me so we were told we were told about six different ways to say Louisville and like so here you go ready people around louisville louisville louisville louisville in that place louisville whoville whatever I hope that I've I've made you all happy you've covered you've covered all the bases so if I haven't then I would never do another case from Louisville ever again well anyways you we've covered all the bases so I think good. You all heard. High fives Louisville. We did it together. Like a big mosh pit of Louisville.

We all, we can slap everybody, every different pronunciation, high five, boom. So you people, you people heard the entire 13 minutes while you were driving around or watching the news and people were sure that Mel was guilty because, um, because, um, duh. Because he was.

Because guilty. Because guilty as judged. Judge. Well, I mean, he technically never implicated himself, but people are not stupid. Yeah. His lawyer, Charlie Ricketts, argued that Mel would never be able to get a fair trial in Louisville, Louisville, Louisville, Louisville, theville. And they needed to, they needed a change a venue.

He was like, there's no fucking way that this is going to be a fair trial. And they were like, Charlie Rickett. And they were like, Charlie, remember when you were a porter? Remember he used to do this shit, too? But Charlie's right? Charlie's a pain in my ass. He's a pain in the ass, but he's right. He's not wrong. The venue change was granted and the trial was moved to Kenton County. And I

probably said that wrong too, but I tried my best. It sounded good. It's Kenton. Kenton. I pronounce the teas and everything. I like it. Well, it was about an hour and a half northeast of Louisville, Louisville, theville. And it was a primarily white community. Now, I only mentioned the racial demographic because Ernie Jasmine, my boy, who I talked about earlier, he was the state's prosecution, thought back on the trial later, and he was like, I think my skin color, along with a few other things, obviously, might have had something to do with the final verdict on this trial. Oh, you think. Spoiler alert.

Huh. So the trial was again delayed when they're star witness, Marianne Shore. Are you ready? I'm ready. She developed Bell's palsy, which is like, what? Which actually, Bell's palsy can be brought on by stress. I was going to say, I wonder why. Yeah, exactly. You have a whole lifetime of guilt hold up inside of you. And I think you have Bell's Palsy forever, technically, don't you? I mean, I don't, I think it goes away. But it can come back again, right? I'm sure it can, yeah.

Guess who's back back again? I think it does go away, though. Yeah, no. You will get like feeling and, you know, you'll be able to move. Yeah, it only lasts like a few weeks. But I think once you have it, you're like more susceptible to get it again. That makes sense. It doesn't really matter in this case at all. But. So she develops Bell's palsy, and if you don't know, that's a condition and it swells the muscles and nerves on one side of your face. And it basically causes your face to just droop. It mimics a stroke symptom. It does. And it causes your speech to be somewhat impaired. Yeah. Because it's like the muscles on one side of your face.

Not completely. No, you can still talk. You can talk outside of your mouth like this. Yeah. And people can understand you still. Oh. Well, Marianne seemed to be milking these symptoms, acting as though she was barely. able to speak. She was having a hard time walking and she was covering her eye with an eye patch.

Huh. Not Bell's palsy-esque. Yeah, that seems a little much. It seemed a little much. And if you think I'm wrong, I'm not. Because a doctor later testified that he had seen hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of patients who had had Bell's palsy and their speech was never impaired enough to be anything other than perfectly understandable. And also that Bell's policy would have no effect on your walk at all. I was going to say, I dad. I was like, what now? Like, I guess if you like can't really see, but.

Yeah, it could make you like. But she was walking like she was in pain. Like she was like, he was like, no, like it doesn't affect your legs or like anything in your legs at all. So. I didn't give you a like a leg, boo-boo. He basically was like, seems like she has something to gain from this. Seems a little shady.

Shady bitch. If you listen to race. What? She is a shade a bitch. If you listen to Race Chaser, they have like this button and they just go, shade a bitch. And I don't know what that is. It's Alaska and Willem's podcast. Oh, okay.

I was like, help. Anyways, back to a true crime podcast. The trial did not begin until December 9th, 1991. In the meantime, this is super sad. Both of Brenda's parents had passed away and so had Mel's mother. Wow. Because like everybody was just so stressed out. Mel had left his share of the house to his.

mom so that he could avoid legal issues later down the road, which is just like hilarious because it actually led to a lot of legal issues. And it's also like your whole life's going to be one big legal issue. Yeah, like L.O.L. at the foreshadowing there, my guy. My die. My die. My die. You should die, Mel. It's very true. Just wait. Marian had gotten married to her boyfriend, Butchie boy in Lowe. And somehow, again, are you fucking ready for this jelly? No. She went on a fucking. Caribbean cruise after she got married. And I don't even care if I just bursted your car speakers. She went on a Caribbean cruise. I have no words. And she got married. Like, okay, people get married

in jail. Whatever. You know what you don't do in jail? Go on a Caribbean cruise. You really don't. And Butch. Come on, Butch. I, well, Butch was like, Marian, remember, like I said, Marian was like this manipulative, scary-ass bitch. It's like Catherine Knight. Yeah. They get these. She actually kind of looks like Catherine Knight. She does. That's why I thought of it. Whoa.

Maybe she is Catherine Knight. Holy fuck. We just crack this wide open. Distinct cousins. It happened. Well, but people remember that like Marion, like, had control over Butch and actually she stayed with this lady that was like kind of a friend of hers during the trial. And then later on the lady was like, we weren't friends.

And like, once I found out the truthy, I was like, no thank you. She was like, bye-bye. But she was like, Marian loved to see what she could get butch. to do for her. Like, he was like a dog. Wow. So, I mean, it's always those kind of people that can like, like, wrap people around there. And you're like, how? Yeah, I know a couple of them. So she goes, she goes on a Caribbean cruise, which is like, again, let that sink in. So much stuff happened before this trial. And then the trial's starting. And the jury was made up of a lot of troublesome characters. Oh, no. There was one woman who already made up her mind that

Mel was guilty before she'd even heard the entirety of the trial. Oh, that's fine. Like, same, but you can't be doing that on a jury. It's not okay on a jury. There was a guy who owed the IRS five grand and had been involved in a lawsuit with the state. How the fuck did he slip in there? I don't know, but if you're involved in any kind of like legal trouble with the state,

you're not allowed on a jury in case you didn't know. You don't say. And most of all, this is the biggest thing. The jurors who like weren't super great were. focused on the fact that Christmas was coming up and they wanted to be home for Christmas. So they needed to get this verdict speedy quick. We got snap, snap. Santa Claus is coming in town.

Let's get this guy in the chair and move on. Come on. It doesn't seem like that's what they wanted to do. And I think that's why they rushed their decision. And I think the trial was not ready to go to trial yet. Like there were still things that needed to happen, but people were excited to get Mel behind bars. Yeah.

The Christmas season was coming. Everything was having. happening. And actually, Ernie Jasmine had worked on, had worked with like another lawyer and this lawyer was like off on paternity leave because his wife had just had a baby. Oh, geez. And the and because the trial had been delayed so many times, the judge was like, nope, like let's go. So it was just like everything coming together to make this the worst time. Yes. And the situation for a trial to happen fairly. For anybody. For anybody. Either side. Exactly. And Charlie Ricketts did a good job of making the state. And even the FBI looked like they had done a shitty fucking investigation. Charlie. Chally. The reality was that they hadn't done a bad investigation at all.

There just wasn't a lot to go off of. They honestly had done like a really great job with the information that they did have. Like in part two, I talked about Mel's ex-wife. She was able to give like, I think it was like a 12-page testimonial about what it was like being married to Mel. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then the FBI put together an extensive profile on what kind of guy Mel was based on that and like some other interviews. Kind of gay. With the help of Rob Hazelwood.

Hazelwood worked for the behavioral science unit of the FBI Academy at Quantico, and he was an expert on criminal sexual sadism. Wow. And... Look at you, Agent Holden. He had actually studied Robert Ben Rhodes' case. There it is. And he helped come up, come up with the list of, I wrote Sejual. Sessual.

But it's actually sexual. He helped come up with a list of sexual sadist tendencies. And he came to the conclusion. This is cool. It's not cool, but it's interesting. Interesting, yeah. That 53.3% of all sexual sadists will record their offense, and they use either the picture or the film or what have you, to look back on the offense and really, live it.

Huh. 53.3%. That makes sense because it's things like BTK didn't record the event, but he would take pictures afterwards. Yep. With the things that he took and like Ted Bundy would take pictures of the people afterwards. Robert Ben Rhodes had those pictures. Huh.

It's crazy. It all adds up. Again, if you read the book, they have the full list. I think it's 22 tendencies. And Mel had at least 17 of the 22. Oh, damn. Oh, damn is right. Wow.

But this jury wouldn't know that because there was still a lot to be unfolded. Oh, man. So the two big things for the prosecution were supposed to be the tape from the ice cream meeting and the testimonial of Marianne Shore-in-Low-Hoface herself. Yeah. Neither worked to benefit them. Why? Because the jury went back and forth on what words were being said, like I said earlier, in the tape.

they had said, was it Doug or Gott and was it site or safe? And nobody could fucking agree on what it was. See, the site or safe thing doesn't seem like it would make a big deal because like there's a safe or there's not a safe. Either way, it's a site. Well, I mean, it was, they were talking like, and like, what was the, Doug and Gott? Doug and got makes a big difference. Doug and got makes a huge difference.

That's the one that would. I guess safe and site does too, though, because it's like, because then Charlie Ricketts, Okay, so Charlie Ricketts did a good job of putting a safe in the mind of the jurors because when he was cross-examining Marian, he asked her about the safe and he was like, why did you call Mel about this safe and then decide that you didn't need it? Like you and Butch didn't want it anymore. And on the stand, she was like, what? Like, what are you talking? Like, she had no, like, she was actually, like, clearly confused. But he's putting it in the mind like, maybe it's a safe that's buried there. Exactly. So she was confused about that. But the jury was like, okay, you know? And at that point, she was already, and thanks to her fucking self, an unreliable witness to the jury. So she had walked into court wearing a super, super short skirt. And when she sat on, and she had she had gained a lot of weight too, which like, whatever, live your life. But, well, not you. But she. Not you, Marian. You can't do anything, Marian. She was sitting like way back, like, like chilling on the witness stand. And her legs were crossed.

So she was showing a lot of thigh game to everybody. Yeah, she wasn't doing the princess sit. No. Keep your ankles together. And Kenton County was like a very nice place in Kentucky. And they were fucking horrified. And they were like, ew. And also she sat there most of the time with her head rested on her fist.

Because she was bored, man. Like she didn't give a single fuck at all. So they were like, yeah, I actually don't believe anything that you say. And then she sat there on the stand basically just. just super cold and matter of a fact in her testimony while she's recalling all the horrific details in just this flat tone. Yeah. She's like, Brenda came over and Mel made her do this and I joined and then I got a glass of water. I was real thirsty. Then hydration is important. I have an app on my phone. Do you guys have that bottle that tells you what times to drink water I do? It was fun. I have one of those.

Keeps me on track. Check out my thigh game. What are we talking about? What? Huh? I'm only getting five years right. ridiculous. So that happened. She was, and everybody was just like, okay, like, this is disgusting. She also didn't shed one single fucking tear the entire time she was up there. Now, you can make the argument that, like, you're too nervous to cry, but like, you're talking about a horrific murder that you, quote, unquote, didn't want to be involved in and you were so scared. You're not crying? And it's like, even if you're too, you know, terrible of a human being and sociopathic to cry for someone else, you're not even crying for yourself. You're not even crying for your ass. Like, you're going to be. You're going to.

to jail. They were like, this woman is fucked up. And the man you supposedly love is going to go away for a long time. A long time, but not at all. Oh, it's just really, it's just really aggravating. It makes me really angry. So she didn't shut a single tier. And this also worked out for the defense because there was not one single piece of physical evidence linking Mel to Brenda that night. There was one partial print found in the car, but it couldn't be. linked to him. And although he had given both public, public pubic hair and like head hair samples, they didn't find anything on her. Really? Isn't that crazy? But who's to say that he didn't clean her? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's he was, they said themselves the pathologist that he was very particular.

Yeah. And I don't think they would have been able to tell based on how badly she was decomposed. He had planned this so meticulously to the tea. I mean, putting the nail in the tire and driving it until it couldn't drive anymore, putting it in a place. It's like, that's very planning, very meticulous. So I don't think he would leave traces of himself. And even if he didn't clean her, like maybe TMI time, but like who's to say he didn't prepare his nether regions for that day? Like, I'm sure murderers do that.

Which, man, I wish they could be like, drop your pants, Mel. You got to show the whole court. Well, don't you worry because we're going to get something like that later. Oh, shit. At the end of this, you're just going to clap and like cry, happy tears. Oh, boy. Hap happy tears. Hap happy tears.

In closing arguments, Charlie Ricketts decided to drone on for a total of four hours. That's the worst thing you can do. Apparently not. You lost people after four minutes. He listed over 50 reasons why there was a reasonable doubt in the case against Mel. He listed 50 reasonable doubts that they should have. Wow. And that wasn't enough.

He also urged jurors that they might regret their decision to find a man guilty solely on circumstantial evidence right around Christmas time. You might think about this decision while you sit in church and you might be reminded that Jesus himself was prosecuted the same way. Wow. Now, that's not like a direct quote, but that's basically what he was saying. He brought Big J into the game. Which I didn't even think you could do that. Like, I didn't think that was allowed. I think it's crazy that that's allowed if it is. Separation of church and state. Yeah, you got to separate that shit. If I was the judge, I would have been like, overruled. You're like, sustained. You can't bring J-Man into this. I would have just said, shut the fuck up. why I'm not a judge. Can't do it. He told them, yeah, he said, you know, you're going to regret this.

He also suggested that Marian, now, this is insane. This is what he thought happened or what he was getting paid to say happened. Yeah, exactly. That he suggested that Marian had acted alone and that she had followed Brenda after she left Mel's home that night, saw that she was having car trouble, saw the chance to get rid of Brenda herself so that she could live happily of her after with Mel. so she did she kidnapped her and killed her herself no that's not even no that's not even plausible plausible plausible or plausible or plausible it's not plausible it's nothing's nothing that's nothing that's done chally it was so stupid come on so jasmine's closing argument lasted an hour which is like nice enough and he was like i'm not even gonna fucking like i'm not even going to talk about your points because

your points are stupid and like is you're moot i don't have time to do this he didn't say i don't have time to do this, but he was like, it would be a waste of time to even like, address most of those. Exactly. He was like, I'm not doing that. What he said was that Mel had prayed on Marion's jealous ways and used her, knowing that she would have done anything to get him back. He said that the witnesses who testified for the defense all put Brenda in different

places around the same time. So that was just bullshit. And he even said, even though there's no physical evidence, there was strong evidence against Mel because a former girlfriend named Barbara had come forward and told investigators a few months before Mel was arrested, he dropped off a bag at her house and asked her to keep it because if the police found it at his house, it wouldn't look good for him, you know? And she didn't think much of it at the time. No, of course not. And well, nothing had come out yet about like what Marianne had said actually. But I'm sorry. If an ex-boyfriend shows up at my house and it's like, can you hold this bag for

me because if the police come, it's going to look bad for me? Yeah. I'd be like, it was a current boyfriend. Like, it was her current boyfriend at the time. Even that, I'd be like, no, why would the police be after you? Why would this look bad? What is happening? Definitely not. Question. That's what happens when you did a fugitive. So she didn't question this at all. But what was in the bag was a bottle of KY jelly. Oh. The vibrating massager. And a box of condoms. Oh. But do you know what, though? She threw it in a dumpster because she didn't want it in her house either.

So they didn't have that to go off of. Oh, no. So again, just more circumstantial evidence. And more people fucking it up. Exactly. All the things that Marianne Shore had said Mel used during the attack on Brenda were right there in that bag. Oh, my God.

And then on top of that, a fraternity paddle was also seized from Mel's home that would corroborate Mary Ann's account of Mel striking and having her strike Brenda. So they did have that at least, but there was nothing on it because he fucking cleaned it, of course. The jury was initially split, which is insane to me. And after Jasmine would say that he never saw a jury play detective the way that they had instead of just listening to the fucking evidence and testimonies presented to them during the trial.

He didn't say fucking, but I did. Yeah, he thought it. Yeah. They relied on like theory. that they came up with themselves and many again just wanted to be home in time for Christmas so they changed their mind at the last second to come to a unanimous decision. Wow, that is beyond. So it was eight to four originally, eight people wanting to acquit and four people being like, no, this guy's guilty. And somehow the eight of them got the four to change their minds basically

so that they could get out of there. Can you imagine? No. Can you imagine going into something like this, like this kind of child? A high profile murder. Like gruesome horrific murder and being like, I'd really just like to go home though. Because it's Christmas. Yeah. So let's just let this guy just walk. It's like, what?

Oh, it gets worse. So obviously they would regret that decision later. They also had the audacity to be laughing and like talking loudly in the jury room, like passing back phone numbers. They were like feet away from the Schaefer family. What the fuck? And it gets worse. It came out after the trial.

that they stayed in deliberation longer than necessary so that they would be able to eat the Chinese food that the court had ordered for them. Get the fuck out. Are you kidding me? Yep. And one of them said they didn't want to waste the taxpayers money. Oh, yeah. We don't want to do that.

You just wanted some chicken fingers and you're a piece of shit. And it's like you're still wasting the taxpayers money. Regardless. You think I want to pay you just as a 30 Chinese food? Get out of here. It's, wow. It made me so angry. How did they get a great?

group of such shitty individuals altogether for this. I don't know. It's like they went intentionally to find them. Well, they just, they fucked up in jury selection. Yeah. And the judge was like shocked when they read the verdict because he was like, if this was a case where I was the decision maker completely and like it wasn't based on a jury, we would have had a quick recess. I would have come back and read the guilty verdict. Oh my God. And that should tell you everything you need to know. Mm-hmm. But after six hours and 15 minutes of quote deliberation. And eating some Chinese. food. They came back with a verdict of not guilty. That's... Mel had been acquitted on all charges of rape, murder, sodomy, kidnapping, and tampering with

evidence. Of course he did. He's fucking Mel. What the fuck? So obviously, Brenda Schaefer's family and friends are shocked. Absolutely. Everyone who worked this case, like all the investigators, were shocked. And the people of Louisville, Louisville, theville, were outraged. Of course. Because they're like, we know this guy did it. And as far as they were concerned, this murderer's just walking around the streets every day. And investigators did their job here. And that's the thing. They did what they needed to do and they still didn't get the W. Right. Charlie Ricketts tried to make it look like they did a shitty job, but they did not at all. No, it sounds like they did what they needed to do. And you have to give them credit because there was four different police jurisdictions

working on this case and they still didn't fuck it up. I didn't even think of that. Exactly. law enforcement specifically knew something had to be done. They aren't going to be able to get Mel again on murder of Brenda ever again because of double jeopardy. So if you don't know, double jeopardy is a clause of the fifth amendment. I can't talk. And essentially it states that the same person cannot be tried more than once for the same crime. But as with anything in law. Just ask Ashley Judd. You know that I'm technically named after Ashley Judd? Wow. Yeah. Good movie, though. That is a great movie. But as with anything in law, like I said, there's loopholes. So during the grand jury investigation, Mel had gone on the stand and said he hadn't had any communication with Mary Ann Shore since April. Now, that was in part two, you remember. No communication with her since April.

And as Mori says, we determined that was a lie. Not true. They could get him on charges of perjury. Oh, look at them. So here we go. We love a loophole. They had a lot to do this time to ensure that Mel would face like a good amount of jail time because they were like, we're not just going to put him in jail for three years.

No. Like a perjury charge. So they got multiple, luckily. But they went over every piece of evidence with a fine tooth comb and they came up with things that were going to be wicked compelling to the jury. Ooh. First and foremost, they had a mannequin that resembled Brenda. And it was able to be moved in the different positions that Mel had forced Brenda into to kind of to have an impact on the jury, like this is what happened.

And they were able to get Marianne to cooperate a second time and explain everything again so that they could take pictures and be like, these are what the pictures would have looked like when this happened. Oh. So Marianne had actually received the full five years for tampering with evidence, which is not something that happens a lot. You don't normally get the full five years, but obviously she sucks. So she did.

Obviously. And she was like a little hesitant to help them at first because she really just wanted to every sentence. It's like, I'm a little miffed. And then they were like, yeah, what about the Schaefer family? And she was like, you're right. You're right. So she helped. Thank God. They also brought in a pocket calendar that Mel had kept on him that was like seized the night that he was arrested along with the paddle and some other stuff. And everything like leading up to the murder was blacked out, like completely blacked out. But there was this document examiner named Steve Sleider. He was an expert in his field and was able to figure out what had been written in Mel's calendar even after it was completely blacked out.

Amazing. And he said he was like, normally it's really hard if it's written in one pen and the same pen is blacked out over it. That makes sense. But he did it. Oh. And it took him hundreds of hours, microscopes and different lights, but he finally got it. The logs leading up to the days of Brenda's murder for almost a month would say, call M.A.,

Call BS, meaning Marianne, Brenda Schaefer. And then on the 23rd, it said, M.A. Cattails Shovel supplies. Whoa. Nobody really knows what Cat tails or Cat tails was. Cat tails. Isn't there like a, isn't there like a whip thing that's like a cat of nine tails? Look at you. I think.

I don't know. I'm just members of the BDSM community, can you tell me if I'm right there? I think it's like there's like a whip that I. believe it's called like a cat of nine. Brianna, where you are. Like, someone let me know. I'm sure there is. I think there is a thing.

So maybe that's what it was. So maybe that was part of it. Maybe he used that. Maybe. And so that was on the list. And then again, shovel and supplies. So like,

I think you just cracked the code of what cat tails was or cat tails. And then shovel to dig. Shovel to dig and supplies to clean up. To supply. There was also an entry on September 24th that said the words, Spank and Eat Later. Then Beat. dot, dot, sex slash keep bound in house, dot, dot, dot, unrealistic idea.

Wow. So obviously, he was just brainstorming. Literally. Like really terrible brainstorming. Like act, like a vent diagram graph. So he was literally thinking about like, okay, I could eat, I could beat her again, and then I could keep her in my house. And then he's like, that's unrealistic.

Don't do that. That's crazy. So I think the eat later was in reference to the chili that he got that night at Skyline chili. I'm sorry that I said. skyline chili yes sometimes it's hard to read your own handwriting it is it's really hard so i think that's what that was and he did that obviously because not for nothing he's a smart fucking dude to secure his alibi so he's like do this go eat go back unrealistic do this go back because he's saying like he at first he was like i'll just keep her in the house and i'll leave to go eat so i can put myself somewhere else exactly

and then and then he's like but that's unrealistic right wow so obviously everybody's super excited about those findings, like, duh. A peek into the mind. A peek into the mind. But little did they know, there was an even bigger one on its way. Oh, oh. So when Mel... I know what this is, I think.

You do. When Mel gave up his share of the house to his mom, she had left it to his children. But then it was given to his attorneys at some point because he hadn't paid any of his legal fees. And also, just a side note, neither did... What's her face? Marianne Twathead. Oh, they didn't pay that legal fee.

She wrote bad checks to her, to her guy. Oh, that's shocking. Yeah, as one does. Jack Vitatow. Jack Vitatat. Jack Vitatow. He was like, I hate that woman. So the house was eventually sold to a couple named Ronald and Judith Watkins.

They bought the house in January of 1991, and they let the investigator search it once, but then they were like, I'm not like, they denied any more searches because their house already was a spectacle because it was the old Mel house. Of course. And they were like, if. we find anything, we'll call you, but like, we would prefer if there's not so much police presence here all the time, because we just like the house and we want to live peaceful. Yeah, like, can we just exist, please? Right. They also decided that they hated the chocolate

brown carpet that Mel had going through most of the house, and they decided, let's replace the carpet. Replace that carpet, guys. The carpet layers came out on October 1st, almost two weeks before Mel's federal trial was supposed to start, and while they were pulling up the carpet and the hallway off of the kitchen, they realized it was really difficult to pull up. And when they finally did get it up, there was like these big-ass staples, like it had been professionally like put the fuck in there. And then the guy who pulled up the carpet was like, what the fuck? Why is there a heating duck underneath this carpet? Like, why would that be under a carpet? And why would it be in front of a door like this.

Oh, no. He looked down into the vent and saw that there was a clear Ziploc bag taped to the side of it. Inside that bag was jewelry and three small black canisters. Can? Oh, I can't. I can't. I'd be losing my mind already. He called into Judith.

Do you know that there's a heating duck here? Do you know what this is? And Judith said, do you know who used to live here? Oh, my God. And then Judith called the. FBI? Judith! So everyone in Louisville, Louisvilleville, knew about the Brenda Sue Schaefer case, and they knew

that there was supposedly pictures taken of the abuse leading up to the murder, and they knew that there was missing jewelry involved as well, and Judith immediately called the investigators who promptly sent the FBI to the scene. Oh, man, I am excited. The film was deviled. Oh. Oh. That scared me.

Oh. Shoot. I got really excited. Was that you? I accidentally pulled my charger out of the wall. Oh, I did it. I was like, I don't know what I thought happened. Well, anyways, they sent the FBI there.

You kind of, you threw off my groove. I know, I'm sorry. Let's get, hold on. We'll get back in. I honestly thought that there was like a laundry room ghost that was like also really excited. It was like, bitch, say what the fuck happened. So somebody just comes through the wall and is like, finish.

She was like, did you hear what the fuck I said? Just kidding. Okay. So the film was. developed. It's not funny. No, like, good, but ready. Okay, so the film was developed and it showed exactly what Marianne had said it would. In fact, some of the investigators were haunted at how spot on it was because they took the photos that Marianne had described taking in an effort to reenact the crime scene with the Brenda lookalike mannequin. They took those photos and then they put

them side by side and they were like, these are essentially identical. So she like committed that to memory. Which is like, you would think that you would block that out of your memory if that was something you didn't want to be there for. You would think. The only issue was that the man in the photos was photographed so as not to show his face. Of course, because he thought of everything. But don't worry, because that was not a problem. Good. The investigators requested an order from the judge to have Mel, Ignato, Ignato, I don't care, photographed nude to compare to the photos. They were like, show your balls, Mel. The judge was like, hell yeah.

And Mel was arrested on his way to go get ice cream. Fuck that guy. Fuck you, bitch. Lactose love. Ew. It was immediately brought into custody where they photographed him nude. And they made him pose in the same poses that he had made Brenda pose, okay, Brenda pose, including the one with his hands behind his head.

This is my favorite part of it. anything I've ever heard. They made him do it in the nude. Can we make every asshole who does this kind of shit do this, please? Well, it was great because Mel was fucking pissed. Oh, I would love it. Especially because he felt humiliated. Oh, he did? Yeah, poor baby. Oh. There was a female investigator in the room, Deirdre Fike. And she had, she worked for the FBI. And she had been with the case from the very fucking beginning. She was the one, she was the one who was there the day Marianne confessed to everything. Oh, damn. Um, so she, so she, so, Mel was like, I'm not going to strip while there's a female in the room. And it's like, oh,

you're so fucking respectable. So modest. But I think you just wanted to like be annoying. And she was like, but Melly boy, we have this order. So like you have to. And I'm not going anywhere. So why don't you go ahead and put your elbows to the side? Click clicks. Deandra. Oh. I love you. I love it. I love it so much. So it was just great. And the moles on his chest and arms were a perfect match to the man in the photos with Brenda. Oh, thank God he's a moly bastard. The better match? He was wearing the exact same watch that he wore that day.

Wow. He was wearing the same fucking watch that he had wore in the day he killed Brenda, like three, some, I don't know how many years it was later, a lot of years later. For someone so particular, these dudes always make those kind of stupid, weird, ticky mistakes. But it's not, I don't even think it was a mistake in his eyes. I think he had gotten away with murder. He didn't even think he did. And he looked at that as like, like, fuck all of you.

I'm wearing the same watch. But that's why it's a mistake. Yeah. Because it's like if you were really meticulous and really smart, you would get rid of every fucking thing that you had on that day and get rid of it and never be connected to it. But a sexual sadist can't. Exactly. Because they have to look back on it.

They all do it. They all do it. Karma, karma, karma. And it brings them down every time. It does. So Mel took a deal to avoid going to trial again, of course. And he pled guilty to. multiple counts of perjury. His sentence was to be eight years. What? Yeah, you don't get a lot from

perjury, unfortunately. Don't worry. After pleading guilty, he addressed the court and the Schaefer family. And he said, quote, on September 24th, 1988, I did take Brenda Sue Schaefer over to Marianne Schor's house on popular level road, and I did physically and sexually abuse her, and I did murder her. She died from having inhaled chloroform. She died peacefully. He said, again. After telling her family that I like raped and abused your daughter for hours. But don't worry. She died peacefully. I made her huff in some chemical fumes. So she died peacefully. And you know what? I actually almost wonder if how you said earlier, um, he put her in the bag like before she would, I wonder if he's like, she died peacefully knowing that she was still alive. That's a really good point. I would not be

surprised if he, because the way he tied her to makes me think that he knew she was waking up. Yeah. He wasn't going to make a point. She didn't claw out of that bag and somehow, because they didn't put her in a box. No. They just put her in a bag. Right. So I'm not saying it would be easy to climb out of earth. No.

But like, if you're not in a box, that's one less thing to climb through. He might have tied her like that because he knew he was putting her in there. And maybe he just never told anybody and like kept that for his own sexual sin. I wouldn't even think of it. Yeah, that's a really good point. I think you're right. I honestly believe that. I think it gave him like some pleasure to look at them and be like she died peacefully.

Oh, yeah. And I think he probably gave. he's a sexual sadist, so it probably gave him a thrill to tie her in all those positions and know she's going to wake up. Right. Like he put her in the ground in that bag being like, this is like getting me going. Yeah. Well, do you want to know what happened to him? I do.

So Mel served 10 years altogether because the state actually pressed further perjury charges against him. And Karma got his ass one last time in 2008 when he fell on a glass coffee table and bled out to death. that's amazing. This, not the same glass coffee table, but he had done that to Brenda. Oh, man. And he fell and he cut his arm and whacked his head on a glass coffee table and fucking bled out all over the place. Just laid there and bled. He was 70 and it was his time to get the fuck off of our planet.

We won't miss you, Mel. And that was the case of Brenda Sue Schaefer. I feel like so happy. that we did that case because I like weirdly feel connected to Brenda because she just looked like the sweetest human alive. I, that was intense. That gave me all kinds of feelings. The fact.

Wow. The fact that he died on a glass coffee table. That's some poetic justice. I feel as though like somebody upstairs was doing Brenda solid. The universe was working. It does. Working overtime. Working overtime.

Thank you, universe. Oh yeah. Wow. That was amazing. Thanks. Terrible. All at the same time. Well, if you'd like that.

to see photos of twat face McGee and twop face Magoo, you can go on over to Instagram at Morbid Podcasts. Head us up on Twitter. A Morbid Podcast. Send us a Gmail. That's where the case suggestions go not to my personal DMs, even though I love you. Morbid Podcast at gmail.com. And the reason that they can't go to Ash's personal DMs is... I can't keep track of them. Because we have trouble keeping them together. We put them in a folder in the Gmail. And we don't want to lose good listener tales because they're getting... getting like hidden in ashes DM. So just make sure if you're doing a listener tale, send it to the email. In case suggestions, because we have folders for everything. Yeah, exactly. Love organizational tabs.

And we don't want to lose like good stuff because they're going to several different areas. So just email. Exactly. Thank you. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you go to the ice cream store and you're like, oh my God, I'm going to confess to everything, but not confessing the FBI tape doesn't turn out that well. And then you're like, Marianne, you just have to be as cool as I am. And then you go to trial and you're like, oh my God, double jeopardy. I'm not even guilty and then they're like, hold up, hold up, wait, and you go to get some more ice cream, and then they arrest you, and then they photograph you in the nude because you suck a big toe, and then you go to jail forever and ever, and then you fall in a glass coffee table

and hit your head and bleed out like the fucking monster that you are. Goodbye, Mel, don't keep it that weird. Mel's a fucking worm. Ew.