Morbid - The Murders of Elisabeth Congdon and Velma Pietila

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

In the early morning hours of June 27, 1977, the bodies of millionaire Elisabeth Congdon and her nurse, Velma Pietila, were discovered murdered in Congdon’s 22-acre estate in Duluth, Minnesota. From the outset, local police were baffled as to the motive for the murders; Congdon was well liked in the community, and as far as anyone could tell, nothing significant seemed to be missing from the house.In time, detectives learned that Elisabeth’s daughter Marjorie Caldwell had a long history of financial problems and debt, had been institutionalized several times for antisocial behavior, and had recently been trying to get money from Elisabeth to buy a new home. Based on the evidence collected in the investigation, Marjorie and her husband Roger were arrested; however, at trial Marjorie was acquitted and Roger’s conviction was overturned by the supreme court five years later, so no one was ever truly held responsible for Congdon and Pietila’s murders.In the decades since, the murders of Elisabeth Congdon and Velma Pietila have faded into the background of Minnesota history—another tragic end to one of America’s twentieth-century aristocratic families. Yet, while Congdon and her nurse may be long gone, the memory and legacy of the Congdon murders remains a significant curiosity, especially to those who tour Glensheen, the 39-room mansion where Elisabeth Congdon lived her entire life, before it was brought to a shocking end allegedly by her own daughter. Thank you to the lovely David White, of Bring Me the Axe podcast, for research assistance :)Sources:Feichtinger, Gail. 2002. Will to Murder: The True Story Behind the Crimes and Trials Surrounding the Glensheen Killings. Duluth, MN: X-Communication Press.Johnson, Steve. 1977. "Killer reportedly stole Congdon gems." Minneapolis Star, June 30: 1.Johnson, Steve, and Walter Middlebrook. 1977. "Caldwell faces murder charges." Minneapolis Star, July 8: 1.Johnson, Steven. 1977. "Duluth nurse changed mind, missed murders." Minneapolis Star, June 28: 1.Kimball, Joe. 1978. "Brainerd picked as Caldwell trial site." Star Tribune, March 31: 1.—. 1978. "Caldwell defense challenges attorney." Star Tribune, May 25: 1.—. 1988. "Despair caught up with Roger Caldwell." Star Tribune, May 20: 1.—. 1978. "Jury finds Caldwell guilty of 2 murders." Star Tribune, July 9: 1.—. 1978. "Marjorie Caldwell indicted in deaths." Star Tribune, August 19: 1.—. 2007. "Marjorie's out." Star Tribune, June 15: B3.—. 1978. "Money called Caldwell motive in killings." Star Tribune, May 10: 18.Kimball, Joe, and Peg Meier. 1977. "Duluth dowager was 'regal, lonely woman'." Star Tribune, June 29: 1.Meier, Peg, and Joe Kimball. 1977. "Duluth woman, nurse slain." Star Tribune, June 28: 1.—. 1979. "Marjorie Caldwell acquitted of murders." Star Tribune, July 22: 1.Meier, Peg, Joe Kimball, and Neal Gendler. 1977. "Son-in-law investigated in Duluth slayings." Star Tribune, July 6: 1.Meir, Peg. 1979. "Prosecutor: Caldwell had mother killed to get money." Star Tribune, April 27: 1.Middlebrook, Walter. 1977. "Mrs. Caldwell's claim of attack doubted." Minneapolis Star, August 11: 1.Peterson, David. 1979. "Another year, same Caldwell defense." Minneapolis Star, June 28: 20.—. 1978. "Congdon murder trial goes to jury." Minneapolis Star, July 06: 1.—. 1978. "Defense focuses on Caldwell kin." Minneapolis Star, May 29: 1.State of Minnesota vs. Marjorie C. Hagen. 1985. CX-84-340 (Court of Appeals of Minnesota, January 22).Stone, Doug. 1978. "Supreme court releases data on Marjorie Caldwell." Star Tribune, July 26: 16. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is AdFree Morbid. This is just a little bonus episode for the week. You're going to get three this week because we love you and you're great and we think you're wonderful. And you probably smell good. And what better way to do a Monday than to get a new episode and it's ad free. And it's an episode that I just, I knew, I know how I felt about the Brittany Drexel case and I knew everyone else was going to be. going to feel the same way, which is like, don't you dare fucking make me wait for the end? Absolutely not. Which I gave you most of the information you needed in the first, you know, half of it. This is more just a discussion of what has happened since.

Like a follow-up. Yeah. And also, thank you so much for all the love you have given me for pronouncing Chilai, right? Because I'm not even kidding, guys. It is feeding my soul. Yeah. Your eyes are twinkling right now. I'm on the right side of pronunciations now.

And I love it. For this week. I love it. I'm going to bask in it until I fuck up another town. But Chilai, love you. Chilai. You got any other cases that Elena could cover? I love Chilai. They're like my favorite. Live show and Chilai. See you there. Yes. But yeah, you guys have been awesome. So I think we will start. Oh, one thing I just have to correct from my first part. Oh, no. I believe I said, I'm not sure I didn't listen to it again, but I'm just in case I said it wrong. when I said that Timothy Deshawn Taylor's father, Sean Taylor, when I said that he was accused of attempting to abduct a girl in Myrtle Beach, I think I said it was a month after Brittany Drexel.

I think you did. Oh, okay. So I was wrong. I just was reading it over again, and I was like, I think I said a month. So it was a year. Yeah. Like almost exactly a year after Brittany. Maybe you did say almost exactly your year.

Either way. I don't know. I just wanted to confirm it just so I didn't give wrong information. So I just wanted to mention Timothy Deshawn Taylor did do a polygraph, and he did an interview about this case, and according to the post and courier, the federal prosecutors filed the paperwork the week ahead of a sentencing hearing, likely to be scheduled in the coming weeks, and this was in 2016. The documents revealed that Taylor had told the FBI about an argument he overheard in June 2016. this argument he said he was present for and this came out like during the polygraph like he was just like oh let me just quickly tell you something he said he heard an argument between two people whose names were redacted so we don't know who these two people were and he said it was basically two people arguing about someone having Britney Drexel's cell phone and he said that neither of these people ever confided in him that they were involved in Drexel's cell phone and he said that neither of these people ever confided in him that they were involved in Excell's disappearance, but the polygraph said that he was not telling the truth about most of this. Like, that he was telling the truth about the argument, but when it came to his involvement in it,

it was giving deception. So it was like he was kind of trying to pass the buck. Exactly. So, yeah, and then he tried to say, he was like, yeah, I thought that argument was suspicious. It was weird. And it's like, yeah, it is a little weird that you are suddenly being like, you were being pointed at. as someone who's heavily involved in this disappearance. And you're sitting there saying, I don't know this girl. I've never met this girl. I have nothing to do with it. But I heard people.

I can't imagine who would point at me. And then you're like, oh, I am involved with people, though, that we're talking about having her cell phone. Isn't that coincidental that you, you, the person who's being pointed at, happened to know two people in all the world, in all of South Carolina that happened to be talking about having her cell phone? That's a little bizarre. Like, you're connected to people, obviously. So now you're putting yourself. into it. Well, that's the thing. You're placing yourself right there. That's the thing. And he said this little argument between these two people, which again, we don't know the names of the people. If their names were redacted, does that mean they're... This could be being looked into.

Okay. So a lot of things seem to be being held back, which is good. I was just going to say. Because I wonder if they're on the right track here. So he said that argument did get like a little heated. They were like shouting at each other. And then he was like, that's all I have to say. Okay. So that's strange. That is strange. It's just strange. Like why? Everything that all of his involvement in the case is super strange because he said he met her father. And then you see an interview with him later and he's like, no, I've never met her father. But it's like, why did you tell the FBI that?

Well, and here's another interesting thing about Timothy Deshaun Taylor that kind of gives credence to Chad Drexel's account that he met him. So when Chad Drexel met this man in this car, gave him the flyer that had the missing stuff. about Brittany on it and he said, I'm her father. Have you seen this girl? They all laughed at him. They were whispering in the back seat. The driver, he said, had one arm. Right. Timothy D. Sean Taylor has one arm. I saw that. And he lost his arm when he was four years old in like a horrific accident. Oh, that's really sad. Obviously, that's a pretty like specific identifier. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So it's like that does give credence to the idea that that was Timothy to Sean Taylor in that car. But we just, I mean, I'm going to believe the father. I don't know why he would

make all that up. Like it doesn't really. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I feel like he wouldn't. And when they talk to Timothy about this, I'll call him Taylor, just from here on out, when they talk to Taylor about this, he doesn't say, no, absolutely not. I never met the father. No, I didn't crumple up a missing poster. No, I didn't do that. Because if somebody said that about you, you would You'd think you'd be like, fuck no. I would never fucking do that. You know if you met the father of this missing girl. And you also know if you took a missing person's poster for his daughter and crumpled it up and laughed in his face.

You would remember that. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, I don't remember that ever happening. He doesn't say that didn't happen. He says, I don't remember that happening. Which is always weird when people say that. He makes a lot of strange turns of phrases when he tries, when he's saying he didn't have anything to do with things that almost don't take him totally. out of it. You know who also does that is anybody on the Real Housewives? And then usually like

five seconds later they play a clip of them doing exactly what they said they don't remember doing. Exactly. So that's my input. So it's just a little strange to me. But back to the phone thing where he was talking about these two people arguing over somebody having Britney's phone, I have a theory about the phone. I think the phone, because they've never found the phone, they've never found her purse, and she had both of those things when she walked out of the hotel. Right. So So where the hell did those go? So I think the phone was brought to that swampy place where it was pinging. Yeah.

And then it just suddenly stopped. I think they abducted Brittany. They brought her with her phone in her purse to this swampy-ass area where no one's going to go. They threw that phone in the water, probably with her purse and all the contents in it, which is why the phone just stopped as soon as it got there. I think it went plonk in the water and we'll never see it again. Right, because it's not like you can dive in a swamp and look for it. And you don't know if like gators are going to eat it.

Like, you know what I mean? Like who, it could go anywhere. Like, it's, it's probably just in the, like, mud at the bottom of a swamp somewhere. Right. And all her stuff is probably in there too because, I mean, I, and we'll talk about it later, but I'm really going with they initially abducted her, whoever did, to traffic her. It makes sense. And I think things got scary when she started becoming nationwide news and that people were missing

her and looking for her. And they decided to dispose of her because it wasn't worth it. Right. To them. Right. But so I think they were, maybe this is something they do when they abduct a girl to traffic her. Maybe since they drove straight to that place.

They knew exactly where it was. Yeah. They were driving fast. Everybody was like, they went at high speed to this place and then they were out of there. That's, I think they may be, this might be what this group of people, whoever it is, because again, no one has been formally charged with this. They abduct a girl. They bring them to them.

to this place, they throw away their ID and their phone so that everything's gone. And then they bring them to McClellanville or wherever else they're going to bring them. And I almost wonder, because remember how we said they found sunglasses there like a while later? Maybe those were a pair of sunglasses from another girl that had been trafficked and just cleaned off and left there to fuck with the police. And who knows, they could have been a brand new pair of sunglasses that that girl that was trafficked had just bought. Right. And didn't have it on the strip. Exactly. So it's like you don't know. You You just don't know. There's so many possibilities.

So the informant, the jailhouse informant, that was the one who came forward and pointed at the tailors, he was to Kwan Brown. And he was from McCormick Correctional Institution in South Carolina. That's where he's spending 25 years on a totally unrelated manslaughter charge. Now, his story that we told, like, a brief overview of, he said that it's all true that, like, she was being sexually assaulted by eight to 12 men in that house. And, you know, he just walked right on by that. Walked right by that, that he was at the stash house to do business with Sean Taylor,

and that she tried to escape. They pistol whipped her, brought her back into the stash house, and then he heard two shots, and he saw them bring what he thought was a body out. Right. So upon further interviewing, he said, that's all true. And he said, I assume she was gone. I heard two gunshots. That was it.

And he said he saw them bring a rolled-up rug out. Okay. So he was like, I was like, all right, that's it. Well, then he said, five days after this, he went to his cousin's Hermit, his cousin Herman's home in Jacksonborough, South Carolina. He saw Brittany there. And he said, she had black eyes. Like, she had a black eye. And he said, and she had a black eye the first time I saw her.

And he was like, and obviously she was pistol whipped right in front of me. So I know she was going to be hurt. And he said she was sitting in a recline. chair in his house and she was clearly drugged. Oh, my God. So he was like, I don't know what those two shots were, but obviously they were not her. Okay. And so he said, even then, he was like, oh, okay, I'll just, there she is. Why is she at your brother? So his brother must have been, oh, okay, sorry. Yeah. And this, this was in Jacksonborough, which I believe is like a, it's a good way away. Not like crazy

way away, but it's not like a drive or anything. Um, yeah. So he said, said she was there, she was drugged sitting in a recliner. Now, he said late May. So this is like a better portion of a month since she's been gone. He was walking with a friend to Herman's home, his uncle again. And he said he was there to like show him a car or something that he was thinking of buying. And he said there's like this wooded area off a dirt path that like leads up to his home. And it's, and he said there was a group of men that he saw out there with Brittany. Mm-hmm. And he said, a man he only knows by Nate. then shot her with a double barrel shotgun twice.

Oh, my God. And he said, he says as soon as it happened, he and his friend turned around and left because they didn't want to be any part of it. And he said, he knows for a fact that they put her body, at least partially, into an alligator pit. Okay.

Now, his uncle Herman died of a heart attack, so we can't confirm anything with him. And one of the witnesses was also murdered, so some of the story is unable to be completely confirmed. but there are some witnesses that have supposedly come forward, according to the FBI, confirming this. What the fuck? Because this sounds like a little far-fetched that you saw her in one random place where you were doing business, and then you were randomly at your uncles one day and saw her again. Well, and this is what it sounds like. It sounds like this is a group of people that they all know each other,

and they all run in these circles and trafficking might be a thing and drugs might be a thing. And it's all connected. Right. So I don't know. It does sound honestly like crazy. But that's not our world. But when you're not used to seeing that, of course, who knows? And you do hear of these things. Obviously, there are drug trafficking and human trafficking circles in the world.

Everywhere. It's a huge problem. And so to play devil's advocate, some of it can't be confirmed. Right. And there are some parts of the story that you're like, yeah. So there's parts you can totally be like, yeah, that's totally true. And then who know? And you just don't know. He's an inmate in for manslaughter. He really doesn't have a whole lot to lose. So it's like, he doesn't have a lot to lose. But he doesn't have anything to

gain. But he could, he could potentially like get anything shaved off his sentence. He can't. No. Because they asked him. They said, is the FBI offering you anything? Is anyone offering you anything? And he said no. And the FBI confirmed, we are not giving him a plea deal. He is not getting anything shaved off is nothing. Yeah. So if anything, the only thing he has to lose is like he's going to have a tough time in prison. Yeah. Because he's a snitch now. Right. And he was actually pissed and filed a lawsuit against one of the agents in the FBI for releasing his name.

Oh, shit. Yeah. But it's all nuts. I was literally going to say this was crazy. So what he's saying is that she was, I mean, throughout the month she was held. And the FBI has confirmed they know she was held for a period of time and then killed. And that she was sexually assaulted during this time. So his story does make.

sense. You know that, I mean, I know this was a traffic situation. I can't imagine Don Drexel knowing that. I can't. And when you see these places, the stash house and Herman's house, I accidentally found some pictures. Wow. Knowing your child was in there? Knowing your child was in there and then going back and thinking to Brittany pulling up to these places being like, that is your worst night. Yeah. You and I were talking about it and we were like, that is some Texas chainsaw type shit. Oh, straight up. Straight up. And then he also. He also. also said in the FBI has confirmed that several people saw her during this month that she was being held captive. Several people assaulted her. Yeah. Several people were involved in all of this. There was, I read something that said like if you're like trafficking, this is horrible. But if you're trafficking a girl, you can traffic her, you can like put her out for business up to like 30 times a night. Jesus Christ. Or a day or like a day and night. So it's like the amount of. You can, like, the amount of. You can, like, put her out for business up to like 30 times a night. Jesus Christ. Or a day or like a day and night. So it's like the amount of. So it's like the amount of. You can't. You can't. So it's like, money and like horror she must have gone through is unbelievable for that amount of time. She was, that's a lot of time. That makes me nauseous. And I think they saw that towards the end of

May, shit was really hardening on trying to find her. And her face was everywhere. There were billboards going up. Her family wasn't letting go. And they were like, this is too much heat. We got to get rid of her. Well, and then you think about it. And what, did you say the guy's name that came forward. To Kuan Brown. You think of it. He saw her two times accidentally when he wasn't supposed to see her. So you have to wonder how many people saw her that they were like, oh shit, this person saw her here, this person saw her here. And now our faces everywhere. We got to get her out of here. Absolutely. And he said in the interview that he did about this, he said, quote, after she was killed, some of her remains were buried in a garden area. And after some time went by,

they removed it from the garden area. And then he said that, there were, that when her remains were dug up, he said some of them were taken to that gator pit and others were placed in a stolen SUV or a stolen RV and taken to a scrapyard. Wow. Now, what's interesting is police reports do say that a nearby neighbor's RV was stolen around that time. Oh, wow. And it would, and a lot of times, that's very like, I know, like, mob people will do that

to, like, put remains in the trunk of a car and then put it in a scrapyard. and it gets crushed. You never see it again. One, you think about, I mean, these people probably have done this before from the sounds of it. Yeah. And again, who knows who's involved in this? You just don't know. And that's, it's insane.

And again, he said he never made any deals with the FBI. He's not getting anything out of this. Well, that's good to know, I guess. That's interesting. Because it does, it makes it more believable. It sweetens the pot for sure. This whole thing is like so fucked up. I've been thinking about this all weekend.

It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And in 2016, Taylor had a detention hearing for that McDonald's robbery in 2011 that he was like the get a ray driver. Because he got like way less time. Yeah, he got like nothing. And this is when FBI agent Jerich Munoz took the stand. And he said that this is when he revealed that Taylor was one of the main suspects in the Drexel Disappearance. And he said, quote, we've had several people.

have come up and given us testimony outlining Mr. Taylor's involvement in this particular case. Wow. So now he's saying several people. Yeah, so it's not just this guy. And they're probably not releasing those people because they're probably not inmates. So they're going to give them a little more protection, I would assume, because, you know, the world. Just how it works. Just how the world works.

Right. So I'm assuming they're kind of just like, you know, to Kwan Brown is being used as like the, here we go. He's the one saying it. everybody else they might keep, because they're going to probably try to work with these other people. Well, that's the thing. And you can't. Keep it coming. They're on the outside. It's probably not easier to murder them because I know that happens in jail, but prison. But a lot more can happen on the outside. And they also could potentially continue to gather information. Right. So who knows if they or maybe even get wired somehow? Yeah. Like you just don't know. So you want to keep those relationships,

you know, copacetic. Close to the chest. Exactly. So he did testify that many people with, witnessed Drexel being killed and thrown into the gator pit. They searched a lot of these pits around the area, but they said there's like 40 plus of these particular ones in that area. So, and again, this is not a lot you can look for. Well, that's the thing. Because it's not like alligators, you know, well, this is horrifying. But like when they're eating like a person or an animal, it's not like they're eating it like a chicken wing and they're leaving the bones. They just eat it. Right. And like you said, there was even boars in that first area. Exactly. And they'll eat shit up.

they're all wrong there. So unfortunately, like, it's horrifying to think about. And I hope that this is not, and none of this is true. I hope none of this is true. Yeah. I hope this is all just bullshit. I hope someday she comes walking down the street and is like, I've had an ordeal, but here I am. Right. I unfortunately, I don't think that's the case. I don't think it's going to have an happy ending. I think this is seeming to be at least, and the FBI does believe this is the story. Like, whether these are the right people involved or not, this is the story. Right. And that sucks.

I can't fathom what Don and Chad and her biological father, John, are going through and her brother and sister, her friends. I can't imagine. And her boyfriend at the time. John. This whole case is so heartbreaking. It is. Obviously, every case is heartbreaking, but this case just. It's just so much.

I'm sorry, but would you involve an alligator pit in a human life? Oh, horrifying. Horrifying. That is like horror movie type. creepy houses where like she's just in there with like eight to 12 men who just don't give a shit about a human being. It's like, oh my God. It is so scary. It's a nightmare. Human trafficking is number one on my list of fears. Oh, it's the scariest thing. And it's such a problem. We had an listener tale. I haven't had a chance to read it on the air yet. But we had one where this girl was at like Walmart or Target.

And like she said there was like three guys with earpieces. And she felt like everywhere she went the store, at least one of them was looking at her and talking into the little... You have to be... Your head has to be on a swivel at all times. Whenever I go somewhere, I don't go anywhere alone anymore. No, I don't either. Ever. And it sucks.

And what really sucks is, like, she was kind of like a prime target because she was out by herself at night. By no means is it somebody's fault. I'm just saying, like, it sucks that she was in a position where she was vulnerable. She was vulnerable because she was also texting. So she wasn't paying attention to her. Because we know she was texting John the entire time. And who knows if Jennifer was still shit in her pants about her shorts.

Quote unquote shorts. So she was texting. So she wasn't totally paying attention to her. Which at 17, she probably wasn't thinking about it. At any age. She's on the strip. You walked down the street. How many people do you see with their phones buried in their faces?

Or excuse me in their phones. I remember, I used to work on Newberry Street. And I remember when I started working and I would like park in different garages, Papa was a mess. Oh, yeah. Puppa was like, do not be texting when you're walking at night. Like, you better like have your head on a swivel. Like, you have to. And he always taught us that.

But another inmate did corroborate Brown's story. Okay. So another inmate said that he knows what happened to. Like he saw and he said, and he said she was abducted from Myrtle Beach and brought down to McClellanville to be trapped. That was the purpose. And they said, like we said, that they started getting nervous when it started getting all over the news and that they had to dispose of her. It's horrific, but the entire thing makes sense.

Yeah. And what that Jerich Munoz, hopefully I'm saying his name right, Jerich, I think it is. I don't think it's Garrick. I've known people named Jerich. I think you're right. So Munoz, the FBI agent Munoz, he said that his belief is that Taylor, quote, showed her off, introduced her to some other friends that were there. they ended up tricking her out with some of their friends, offering her up to them and getting a human

trafficking situation. I fully believe human trafficking was involved here. Me too. Whether it was the end game or whether it was just the between, that was definitely what they were planning to do. A goal at some point. Now, Taylor's mother and Sean Taylor's wife, Joan Taylor, obviously thinks this is insanity, which any mother would, I'm sure you don't want to believe your child would do this or your husband, for that matter. She also pointed out the fact that he only has one arm and that it would be very difficult to grab a girl off the street. I was going to point that out. Of course it is. Of course we know people can do lots of things with one limb. Well, and who's to say that there wasn't somebody else in the car that grabbed her?

It's also, and I don't know if he's a righty or a leftie, but it's also his left arm that is gone. Well, and he's had how many years of... He's had many years to get used to having one arm. Look at Soul Surfer. Yeah, there you go. So that, of course, that is something to take into consideration. Absolutely. That he was also 16 at the time.

So he was probably smaller than he was now. Who knows? I don't have a picture of him at 16. We pointed out. Brittany was, what, five feet tall? She was tiny. And, like, what did you say? A hundred pounds soaking wet.

So it's like... But of course, his mother. Jones says, you know, that was a busy area. That would have been a hard one to do. That's what we said. But then we also have to think, was it him who did it? He could have been driving the car. Right. It wasn't necessarily him who jumped out and grabbed her. It wasn't, who knows if that's even how it happened. We pointed out that there was another like alleged kidnapping in the middle of the day there. Exactly. That actually his father, Sean, was accused of being part of. He was released because he had an alibi for that day. Right. But it's a little

It's weird. It's weird that this family has a lot of abductions that get lodged at them. And it's worth mentioning. It's strange and it's worth mentioning, but it's also worth mentioning that nothing has been charged here. Because obviously, we have to tell you the facts and give you both sides. And honestly, my opinion is that it's very, it's suspicious. It's suspicious that this family has this many things attached to it. Attached to it. That's a weird thing. Whenever that happens, usually the way there's smoke, this fire. And I feel like something's going on there. Who knows if it's this, but there's something. Right. Either way. He, the younger Taylor, was interviewed by NBC News 10 in 2019. And he used the phrase when they asked, like, do you have

anything to say to Brittany's family? He said, I apologize for their loss when speaking about it. And the interviewer was like, you could see how that would be. That could be taken, right? That you're apologizing for their loss? Like, you have some... Any lawyer would be like, do not apologize. He was literally like, you know how that can be misinterpreted, right? And he was like, well, yeah, but like, I just mean, like... But it's like things like that that he says, that he's not totally taking himself out of it.

I understand he might have just had a slip of the tongue and was like, you know, I'm sorry for their loss. And who's to say he maybe he's not involved and he does feel bad? And he really is just saying, I'm sorry for your loss. Like, we don't know. That's what is so frustrating about this case. I know. It makes a lot of sense that he's involved, but then you're like, I don't know. Yeah.

We have nothing truly concrete here. Right. To point to. Now, in 2019, the FBI did search Herman's home in Jacksonborough, and they found nothing that they could use. But how fucking, I mean, years and years later. That's 10 years later. They did, people, you know, did ask, like, could they have found DNA?

Could there be anything left there? And they said, sure, there could be. but like it really just depends. Well, like, when he died, did the, like, did he have a wife or something that kept the house? Or did new people live there? I think it just became abandoned. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Well, then you think of that when a place is abandoned, a lot of things are going to get destroyed. Of course. Brain, like, anything, you know? Well, and this is what's very interesting. So in May 2019, a home belonging to the Taylor family burned down randomly. I wish that I hadn't found that on the internet before you told me. Because had you told me, I would have been like. Like, what the fuck?

Well, this home was right near the stash house mentioned, and this was in McLaughlinville. It was right near the stash house mentioned by Brown. The FBI won't release whether this is the other home or not that they searched, but people think that this was the Taylor's getting nervous and destroying possible evidence. You would think, though, that you wouldn't do that because that looks incredibly shady. But it looks shady, sure. But that's it. It just looks shady.

Yeah, that's true. There's nothing that came out of this. And if it was destroying evidence, they destroyed evidence. Oh, yeah. And they left nothing that could connect them to it, except people just going, that shady, and they don't give a fuck. Seriously. So, and there wasn't any obvious signs of arson, but there was no power going to that home. It had been built 80 years ago. Right. So it wasn't like this thing. An electrical fire. There was no electrical fire. It had had been abandoned for years, and it literally just in nothing around it, just the home, burst into flames and was engulfed in flames, like completely engulfed. Yeah, you can see a picture of it.

We'll post it. I just think that's really weird. It is really weird. It's really, really weird. And according to ABC 13, W.H.A.M. I don't know if it's just called like, Wham. It should be. Cedar dogs hit on a scent near the santi.

where the phone was originally taken, that creepy swamp area. And they said that the cadaver dogs hit. And they said a private investigation firm who was consisting of retired law enforcement officers, like homicide detectives. They were called in to aid local law enforcement in this search. And they found, while they were searching out here, physical evidence buried in the dirt that ties her, Brittany, to this area near the gator pit. but the FBI hasn't looked at it because it was gathered by retired law enforcement,

like a private investigation firm. So the evidence is just sitting in like a locker, in a room at this private investigation firm, in a box. Why won't they look at it? Because I guess, so when I saw the interview, it was with a retired homicide detective named Steve Pickering, I think his name was. And he said, the only thing he can think of, he said, they might be wary to look at it right now until they can truly like get something else maybe like a bigger thing because he said continuity like evidence continuity this wasn't found by the FBI this wasn't found by local law enforcement this was found by retired law enforcement which if anything you would those are the fucking people to trust how long are they been doing they are but in a court of law they're not at all so it's like if they brought that into court and we're like so these guys and this private investigation firm found this in the dirt they'd be like yeah yeah makes sense and

court. It's frustrating. So it is very frustrating. He said, you know, he was like, what is even more frustrating is like, these are retired law enforcement officers. Like, they're not just random guys off the street. Right. Like, this wasn't just like a search party of like Tom Dick and Harry. So he said when they were this whole team that was put on the Drexel case, he said they felt like they were really getting somewhere. He said they were very close to finding something. Yeah. He said they were all very, even local law enforcement. He said that team was very close to finding real solid evidence here. And then he said they were removed from the case and a new team was put on it because they wanted fresh eyes on the case. Why do you need fresh eyes if shit's getting done? And they were like,

what the fuck? They were like, that's not fair. These people have worked for years to like put this together and then they just switched it out. And Don, Brittany's mother is like, what the hell? Like that, why would you take these people off the case? Right. Like they're getting hot on a trail and you removed them. It's weird. It's all weird. Very weird. Trafficking is a very interesting thing. And then I wonder, so we're going to go back to, skirt back to the shorts. Her friends there, because then we're going to read our little emails. Did police, so I know that they talked, police investigators talked to the friends. They talked to Peter and his friends. I don't know about Peter. I don't know. The whole thing about not Peter, Peter left in the middle of the night,

which I already said, yes, that's weird, but I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. I don't know. I definitely. I think it's weird. I still think it's weird. I don't know. Why not just wait till 5 a.m.? Because remember, the only thing that I will give them is that it's like a bunch of idiot

dudes at a hotel room and like probably three of them are like, we got to get out of here, man. We got to get out of. That's the only thing I can think of. It still doesn't vibe with me. It doesn't vibe with me at all. But that I can understand. What I can't understand in any way, shape, or form is that Alana and Jennifer were leaving hotels in the middle of the night. Not switching hotel rooms. Like, it's not like the bed wasn't

comfy or there was a leak in the hotel room. Total different hotels. You're leaving a hotel and not in like, not the next day, the middle of the night. And just to like, just to further, you hammer in the idea that this seems like it was a human trafficking situation that went even further awry. I looked into some of like the statistics around Myrtle Beach because if you see any of these things. A lot of the investigators and officials will be like, this never happens here. It's like, this is not the kind of place. It's a sleepy little town. Let me tell you, they're lying. So in 2017, 84 kids were rescued and 130 traffickers were arrested in an FBI sting operation in Columbia and Myrtle Beach. A lot happened in a Myrtle Beach hotel. So, and then in

2020, it was reported that Myrtle Beach had the worst violent crime rate per 100,000, thousand people out of a study of 10 beach communities. Wow. And that included Daytona Beach and Panama Beach. It was also worse than Chicago. Whoa. Whoa. And also in 2020, Horry County, OCH, H-O-R-R-R-Y county in South Carolina, was named the number one human trafficking hub in South Carolina. Wow. And it is about an hour and a half outside of McClellanville. At the time, the Attorney General said they were only about seven or eight years into really understanding and utilizing their task force against human trafficking. So they were only seven or eight years in in 2020. So when Brittany, when this whole thing happened with Brittany, they were not ready to deal with it. Unheard of in there. Yeah,

they just didn't know that it was so huge then. So in conclusion, taking all that in, it's definitely a human trafficking situation, I believe. I believe, obviously, I don't know. Do I know the tailors are involved? No, I don't know that for sure. Does it look bad for them? Yes. Yeah, it does. Really, really bad. Do I need more information? Yes. But as of 2020, we're still just kind of like waiting for the FBI to release anything else. I do wonder if they have a few things that they're just holding on to right now. Maybe tying up some loose ends, maybe talking to some people that they wanted to talk to. I'm hoping. I would love to see this case closed. I need. For. For. For. Don Drexel and Chad. And John. I need this case just sewed up just so she doesn't. I know it would be horrific to hear either way. Absolutely.

This is a horrific, horrific case no matter what. But I think they just need to be able to like put the lid on it. Yeah. Like it must be horrible to be sitting there flapping in the breeze, not knowing for sure, hearing this awful story and not really knowing if it happened or not. like, the whole thing is just really, really bad. It's really bad. It's horrible. And my heart goes out to the Drexel family. Yeah. And John Greco and like all her friends. Like that's just, it's awful. Yeah. With all that being said, you can find us on Instagram. At Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. At a morbid podcast. Send us a Gmail. Morbidpodcast at gmail.com. And thank you so much to those who did with that

information. You're great. You are awesome. Thank you. much. Guys, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not swear that you don't love this ad-free episode. Woo! Bye. Bye.