Morbid - The Murders of Mary Phagan and Leo Frank

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

In the early morning hours of April 27, 1913, a night watchman at the National Pencil Company in Atlanta, GA, found the body of thirteen-year-old former factory worker Mary Phagan in a basement room of the factory. Mary had been sexually assaulted and strangled, a strip of fabric from her coat still around her neck when she was discovered, and there were two cryptic notes found near the body. Given where Mary was discovered, it was assumed the killer was familiar with the layout of the factory and was either a current or former employee.Just one day later, suspicion fell on two factory employees, a night watchman, Newt Lee, and the factory’s superintendent, twenty-nine-year-old Leo Frank. In time, investigators ruled Lee out, leaving Leo frank as the sole suspect in the girl’s murder. To many, the arrest, prosecution, and failed appeals of Leo Frank had more to do with him being Jewish than they did his being the most likely suspect, but the real outrage was yet to come. Indeed, two years after Phagan’s death and Leo Frank’s conviction, the people of Atlanta would commit an act of extrajudicial violence that would forever stain the conscience of Georgia.RESOURCESAtlanta Constituion . 1913. "Frank and Lee ordered held by coroner's jury for Mary Phagan murder." Atlanta Constitution , May 9: 1.Atlanta Constitution. 1915. "Mob's own story in detail." Atlanta Constitution, August 18: 1.Atlanta Journal. 1915. "Leo Frank forcibly taken from prison." Atlanta Journal , August 17: 1.—. 1913. "Arnold's motion for a mistrial is denied by Judge Roan." Atlanta Journal, August 25: 5.—. 1913. "Detectives building case on theory that Frank and negro can clear mystery." Atlanta Journal, April 29: 1.—. 1913. "Dorsey will finish his speech in few hours." Atlanta Journal, August 24: 1.—. 1913. "Factory girls eager to testify for Frank." Atlanta Journal, July 29: 1.—. 1913. "Frank Receives sentence like stoic, asserting his innocence of the crime." Atlanta Journal, August 26: 1.—. 1913. "Negro sweeper tells officer Frank asked him to write some notes day before tragedy." Atlanta Journal, May 24: 1.—. 1913. "Phagan case will go to grand jury in present form." Atlanta Journal, May 17: 1.—. 1913. "Phagan inquest in session." Atlanta Journal, May 8: 1.Berman, Sandra, and Jane Leavey. n.d. Seeking Justice: The Leo Frank Case Revisited. Atlanta, GA: The Breman Jewish Heritage and Holocaust Museum.Jewish Advocate. 1913. "Is Leo M. Frank of Atlanta GA., guilty of murder." Jewish Advocate, December 12: 1.New York Times. 1914. "Appeal for Frank in murder case." New York Times, February 25: 6.—. 1914. "Frank convicted by public clamor." New York Times, March 2: 1.—. 1914. "Split court denies new trial to Frank." New York Times, February 18: 3.—. 1915. "Took Frank's life in resentment." New York Times, August 18: 3.Oney, Steve. 2003. And the Dead Shall Rise: The Murder of Mary Phagan and the Lynching of Leo Frank. New York, NY: Pantheon Books.Slaton, John. 1915. "Gov. Slaton's statement." New York Times, June 22: 6.United Press International. 1982. "Alonzo mann, 83, Sunday made public a secret." United Press International, March 7. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. Yes, it is. This is going to be very morbid. Yeah, this is a, I mean, again, they're all rough cases, but this is just brutal in every sense that it could be. And it really, it hit. And it pissed me off. Yeah. This is definitely one of those that you say, what the fuck? Yeah. The police were not doing their jobs here. They were policing. And I can say that because it's from a long time ago. It was. But it's an interesting. We can always say that. What'd you say? We can always say that.

Yeah, I can say whatever it on. When appropriate. Exactly. Yeah. But yeah, interesting case nonetheless. Yeah, this is an older one, but it's definitely crazy. Mm-hmm. You know.

Do we have any fitness before? I know. Just that it's spooky season. That's goodness. I would really like that to start right now. It already did. We're going to be getting into spooky content. Yeah, I just gave Dave a full list yesterday.

Yeah. So let's go. So let's fucking go, girls. Let's go. What? Oh, yes. And we want to do, I think usually we always do like a Halloween themed listener tale. Yeah. I don't remember if we did like full blown Halloween stories last year. This year, we're going to get ahead of it. Yeah. So you always send your listener tales into morbid podcast

at gmail.com. Tell us your like most fucked up scary Halloween story. Yeah. And then make sure you put like Halloween listener tale in the subject line and start getting them into Deb because she's got to sift through a lot of them. Yeah. And if we get a lot of them, we can carry it to November. We can carry it to November and we can start using them at the end of some of the spooky content episodes just to like

add to the fun. So give it to us. Give us your spooky Halloween listener tales or like haunted house experiences. Yeah. Like possessions. And let us know what you're going to be for Halloween while you're at it. Yeah. I just want to know. Do you know? Do you

I don't yet because we usually wait for the girls to tell us what we're being. The girls actually told me and Drew who were being this year and I'm ready. We're being Helen and Ed from Kiff. Yeah. And I said, yes. Helen. I'm excited. I love Helen.

Yeah. And I love Ed. See, so there you go. He's a jolly little fellow and my name is Ed. I have bare feet and a hat on my hand. Watch Kiff guys. It is my goal. It is my goal to learn all of those words because he does this like spell in the middle

on Kiff, of course, where it's a jolly little. like so fast, I'm going to learn it. Yeah. Hell yeah, you are. And I'm going to say it to the kids. You can listen to it on Spotify. T.T. You're crazy.

The Kiff soundtrack slaps. I actually saw a squirrel run into the road this morning and I was like, Kiff, Kiff, Kiff, Kiff, Kiff. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so affected by your kids. Yeah. I mean, we all are. We love them.

They affect us all. We love those little betches. But yeah, I don't think there's any, I'm trying, I don't think there's a lot of business. I mean, you can still buy the butcher legacy if you want. You can always buy the butcher legacy. I can order it anymore. It's there. You could buy all three of them, in fact. You could. In fact, I recommend it. Yeah. You should start at the beginning. Yeah. And hopefully someday we'll get special editions of the other two. Yeah. I feel like if you guys ask for it enough, that is something that could happen. Can I ask for it? Yeah. Hi, Zando. It's Ash. Can we do special editions of the book, please? Let's do special editions. Let's do a box set. Please. Yeah, if you guys ask for it enough, I ask and you shall receive. So start asking. I'll ask every episode if you want me to. Yeah, there you go. I will ask every episode of my own volition.

There you go. I love it. All right. Let's go. Yeah. All right. We've put it off long enough. No, I keep trying to think of a name to call the man who keeps the time. Because there's like multiple. Who are we going to call him today? Stanley. Stanley. Okay, Stanley. Mark the time down. Mark it down. There it is. This one was quicker, Stanley. I don't know if you'd agree, Stanley, but don't stop your watch just yet.

Yeah. Okay. All right. So from the very start of her life in 1899, it did sadly seem that Mary Fagan's life was destined for some kind of tragedy. That makes me sad. It's awful, yeah. She was born in Florence, Alabama, to a widowed mother, Fanny Fagan. Three months before Mary was born, her father actually passed away. Damn. So that obviously left Fanny by herself to raise four children. Eek. Which like, even now that would be absolutely horrific, but please picture that in 18. In Alabama. In Alabama, precisely. So widowed and with no source of income, Fannie moved back to her hometown of Marietta, Georgia, just a few months after giving birth. And at the very least there, she would have the support of her family. Yeah. Now, based on the little that we do know about Mary's brief life, she was your typical small town, girly girl. She loved to go to the movies and various, you know, read through various fan magazines like photo lore. She'd keep up with the stars of the time, the latest trends in fashion. and she had this dream of one day breaking out of rural Georgia to make her way to Hollywood. But unfortunately, she would never make her way out there.

Like a lot of kids in rural areas in the early 1900s, she had to drop out of school when she was just nine years old. Nine years old. For anyone confused, that's third grade. That's wild to think about. And she had to go get a job. That was so common. Like that was just like nine years and younger. Yeah.

In factories. Just crazy. Insane. And I mean, think about what factories were like at that time. Oh, yeah. So she initially got a job at the local textile factory to help support the family. But in 1912, Fannie moved the family again, this time to East Point, which is a suburb just outside of Atlanta.

And she was able to get remarried and she opened a boarding house. So that was, you know, they were doing a little bit better. Mary was 12 years old at that point. And she was already very experienced. in factory work, which is nuts. And she quickly found a new position at the National Pencil Company in Atlanta, where she made 10 cents an hour running the Nerling machine, which that machine inserted the rubber erasure into the metal end of the pencils. Oh, damn. It's kind of cool. I never even thought about how that happens. Neither did I. Mary knew all about it, though.

Yeah. Now, despite the absolutely abhorring conditions and the long hours at the factory, Mary did have much to be thankful for, all things considered. Her job actually paid more than twice the hourly wage that her brothers were making at the cotton mill. And her position at the council company was supposed to be pretty safe compared to those held by others at different factories and even within that same factory. Oh, okay. Now, obviously, we're sitting here and we're telling you that a nine-year-old dropped out of school and was working at a factory where it had very unsafe conditions. Yeah. So her situation sounds dire.

But what's crazy is that at that time, she and her family were a lot better off than a lot of the other working families in Atlanta. Which is wild. Yeah. During this period, jobs were really hard to come by. And almost every poor or working class man, woman, and child was found in the cotton fields, factories, or working as like domestic workers for wealthy families. Wow. To make matters worse, more than half of Atlanta's school-aged children at this time were suffering from anemia, malnutrition in large. glands and heart disease. Oh my God. Yeah. And the death rate for all Atlantans was more than one-third higher than the national average. Holy shit. Yeah. So things were fucking bleak. I didn't know

about any of that. I didn't either. Damn. By the time the family moved to Atlanta in 1912, Georgia was the only state left in the country, actually, that still allowed children as young as 10 to work these dangerous factory jobs. So this was a bleak life. Yeah. On the morning of April 26, 1913, though. Mary ate a breakfast of cabbage and wheat biscuits, and then got dressed in a storebought violet dress and gray pumps, and she put two little bows in her hair. That day, the town was set to celebrate Confederate Day. Ugh.

Yeah. It was a day celebrating those who fought for the South in the American Civil War. And Mary, whoof, wanted to look good for the festivities, scheduled for that afternoon. She left the boarding house a little before noon and caught the trolley downtown, where The parade was set to begin. And when she reached town, she got off the trolley on Forsythe Street, the location of the National Pencil Company, and she was going to stop in to pick up her recent pay. Now, she was actually typically scheduled for a 55-hour work week.

Jesus. She is 13 years old. I was just going to say a chab. 13 years old working 55 hours a week. No. But things had been slow at the factory recently, and she only had worked two of our scheduled days. So she just got $1.20 in pay. Wow.

But something was better than nothing, and she had no intention of leaving that money in the safe until her next shift. No way. The family needed that money. Now, the last time Mary was seen was when she entered the building around noon, just as the parade got underway. And the elderly veterans started making their way down Main Street. Hours passed, and the parade had long wrapped up, but still nobody had seen Mary since she left the house. Then, a little past 3.30 a.m. the next day, the National Pencil Company's night watchman, Newtley, made a horrific discovery while he was making his rounds. In the basement of the factory, partially hidden

behind a closed-off storage shed, he found Mary laying on her side, and her face was pressed into a pile of trash on the floor. This is very, very graphic, but I'm going to do my best to get through it, you know? Yeah. So her skirt was pulled up around her waist. She was missing one shoe, and there was a strip of fabric torn from her dress that was wrapped tightly around her neck. It was only later when Newt turned her body over that he saw the full extent and brutality of Mary's injuries. Her face was battered, one of her eyes was swollen completely shut, she had scratches all over her body, and just above her left ear, there was a jagged gash in her scalp that had clearly blood heavily. That is so fucking brutal. To Newt's horror, her tongue also protruded

from her mouth and blood was still leaking from her mouth or had leaked from her mouth in her ears. Oh my God. It seemed also that every inch of her was covered in black soot. What the fuck? Yeah. So he ran to the phone to call for the police telling the officers, a white woman has been killed up here. Now later, it seemed remarkable to all the officers that Lee, who was a black man, knew the girl was white considering all the sook covering her body. And that did seem suspicious to them, but I don't find it that suspicious. which is myself. The trash and other debris surrounding Mary's body weren't the only thing that made investigating the scene difficult, though. The factory itself, especially where Mary was found, didn't lend itself to easy access.

Whoever had done this to her had... Yeah, it wasn't like they just stumbled upon her. No, exactly. The basement was only accessible by a slow-moving metal elevator car or a rickety wooden ladder that descended several floors into complete darkness. Once investigators were finally able to read. the basement conditions down there were also challenging to say the least. It was dark,

everything was dirty, covered in soot, and there were thick layers of pencil shavings and dust covering legitimately every surface. It sounds horrific. Yeah. In fact, if Newt Lee hadn't run to get a larger lantern, it's likely that the officers could have stepped on Mary's body while searching for her. Now, up close, it was very abundantly clear that Mary had put up a fight, But it was also clear that the murder wasn't the only crime that had been committed. Upon a quick examination, they could see that her garters had been ripped from their fastening belt, and her underwear was torn at the crotch. She had been sexually assaulted so violently that, honestly, even using the word violent, is an understatement.

Oh, that's awful. It was horrific. Now, investigators ended up finding Mary's missing shoe underneath a pile of garbage near her body, and they also found a bloody handkerchief as well. They also noticed that the lock on the door leading to the alley had been tampered with and that somebody, likely the killer, had pried the clasp loose in order to get out of there easily. It wasn't until they started raking through the piles of trash near the body, though, that officers found the strangest pieces of evidence.

In a pile of debris next to Mary's head, there were two hastily scrawled notes. Sergeant L.S. Dobbs picked them up from the pile and read them aloud for everyone. They do contain slurs, so I'm obviously going to skip over those. Thank you for that. Yeah, you bet. The first one said, he said he, and also they're spelled like very incorrectly. He said he would love me and land down play like the night witch did, but that long, tall, black, and slur did boy his self. And then before Dobbs had even finished reading that note, Newtley apparently gasped loudly and stated something to the effect of,

that they were trying to put it off on him. Okay. Later, many of the officers would recall the situation differently, insisting that what Lee actually said was, white folks, that's me. White folks, that's me. I have a feeling he didn't say that. I can't imagine why you would think that.

Yeah. I think when he saw what the note said or heard what they said, he was like, oh, fuck, are somebody trying to put this on me? Yeah. They described some, like a tall black man. And let's think about where we are in the country. It is Confederate Day after all. Yeah.

And the time period. Exactly. So I would think he would be a little nervous about this. And he's the one that found her body, so he's obviously really nervous about it. A minute or so later, Dobbs found a second note in the pile, which appeared to be a kind of continuation of the first note. It said, ma'am, that ensler higher down here did this. I went to make water and he pushed me down that hole, a long tall ensler, black that who it was. long, slim, tall, ensler, I write while play with me.

So is this supposed to be from her? Yeah. In her condition? Yeah. Okay. Yep. Okay. To anyone who knew him, the idea that Newt Lee was capable of committing such a horrific

crime seemed impossible. Yeah, because this also isn't just like any, obviously, this would be horrific no matter what. But, like, this is astonishingly brutal and grotesque. Yeah. Like this isn't just somebody who like lost it and just whatever. Like, you know what I mean? Like this is a lot. Well, and you would imagine that he's, so he's making, remember, he made his rounds and he stumbles across Mary's body and she is in brutal condition. Yeah. He'd be covered in blood or there would be bloody clothes somewhere in the vicinity that likely would have belonged to him and could be traced to him. They talk about how bloody this scene was. There's absolutely no way. Yeah. He would have.

honestly probably have defensive wounds. Well, that's the other thing because remember I said she put up a fight. Whoever did this would be covered in defensive wounds like you just said. That's one thing you really do have to think about. And also, if he did this, why would he call the police? Why wouldn't he just leave? And you just said yourself that the person who left tried to make a hasty escape out that like actually made it so they could make a hasty escape. Obviously they were like peace out. Yeah. I'm not trying to get caught here. Yeah. I don't think he'd call the police. Exactly. Now, Newton had been born into slavery and by then was in his mid-50s. He was known as a super easygoing guy.

He also had never had any trouble with law enforcement in the past. Yeah, this would be a big first. He had never had any problems with his employers. Like, he never had problems with anybody. Yeah. And just to be clear, when I said employers, I'm not talking about the people he was enslaved by. Because that is not an employer. Yeah, that's not an employer.

I'm talking about he worked at the factory and he had never had any issues there. He was a paid employee. When officers arrived at the factory in response to his call, he seemed scared by what he had found by finding Mary. And he was eager to help in the investigation. Like, remember, he went to go get a bigger lantern to help them see everything. Like, why would he go through? Why would he go this way? You know what I mean?

And if he's, like, clearly looking like he is really uncomfortable and scared by this body in front of him, like, that tells you something. I don't think that he'd be able to do that. Now, all that being said, though, for some reason when he finished reading the second note, Dobbs turned to Newton and said, you did this or you know who did it. Whoa. Without any indication of why he felt that way. That's wild. Yeah.

Newt immediately denied knowing anything about the murder and started giving his account of the whole evening before that to the officers. And that was a story that he stuck to without any variation, even days later, during a coroner's inquest. Because it's like, how can you turn and just say to the person? Like, I know you did this or you know who did it. It's like, no, you have no evidence to say that. Racism. Yeah, literally. Blatant racism.

Yeah. Now, according to Newt, he was making his rounds a little after 3 a.m. And he went into the basement to make sure that that door to the alley was locked. And also to make sure there were no fires because that was a significant threat and a factory full of wood shavings. I could see that. So he had every reason in the world to be down there. While he was in the basement, he just. decided to use the restroom, and he set the lantern down on the floor next to the toilet.

When he was done, he picked up the lantern, took a few steps forward, and that's when he saw Mary laying on the floor. He said, I thought it was something some devilish boys had put there to scare me. I went over and saw it was a body, and I got scared. Then I called the police. That's the thing he called the police. He immediately called the police. So the story did sound plausible, but for some reason, all of the officers on scene were still suspicious. For some reason. Racism. Yeah. When he called the police. the police to report the body, he specifically had described Mary as a white girl. And that's one of the key things that did make them suspicious outside of racism. Here's the thing.

Doesn't make me suspicious because you're going to get the cops there a lot quicker if you say it's a white girl that got killed. 100%. Let's, I mean, like, let's be honest. That really was suspicious to them. I'm like, how quick would you have moved if he didn't say that? And the reason that they were suspicious, they said, was that because she was so covered in soot, you couldn't have own her race. But later when this was pointed out, he said her hair was simply too straight to be that of a black girl's. And you also have to think of the time period here. Yes. White women were wearing their hair quite differently than black women. Yeah. So the officers were still unconvinced though. And they thought the notes that were found near Mary's body

implicated Newt in the crime. So he was arrested and taken to the station for questioning. This also feels like even another layer of racism on it because I'm like, well, SUT looks different from black people's skin. Yeah, it absolutely does. And I think a black man would be able to tell the difference between soot on skin and a black woman. Like, can we also point that shit out that it's like, wow, wow, fellas. Like, damn. You're going to become increasingly angry as the story continues and for good reason.

That's wild. It's full of racism. Yeah. Now, when the news broke about the body being discovered in the factory basement, the local paper is immediately set to work trying to outdo each other, of course, because nothing else apparently was happening at the time. They were competing to be the first to publish each new detail of the case. At the same time, a large reward was offered to anybody who could identify Mary's killer.

And although they had arrested Newley, very few people thought that he had actually killed Mary Fagan. Like, the Court of Public Opinion was, I don't think that man did it. There's literally no evidence to put him being there. The only thing that police felt they had that tied him to the case was the notes found near Mary's body, which appeared to have been written by the victim in order to implicate Lee. Yeah. Or just...

Like, that's what it was supposed to look like. Yeah, but it could implicate Lee or any black man that worked at the factory. I'm like, is he the only black man that could have done this? No. No. But the problem was that the handwriting also didn't match Mary's. And as a practice writer and reader, she wouldn't have made all the grammatical errors that were found and all the misspellings.

Yeah. But despite that, investigators weren't entirely convinced. that Newt didn't know who did kill Mary. So they held him for the time being until a better suspect came along. Because they didn't want to look incompetent. No. But it just made them look more incompetent.

I was going to say they did a great job of that. Now, during the course of their interview with New, investigators learned that there were a few other men at the factory that day, including the last person to see Mary alive. And that was factory supervisor Leo Frank. Now, detectives tried to get a hold of him by phone that morning, but he didn't pick up. And when they finally did reach him later that day,

he immediately agreed to come meet them at the factory. Now, even though they already had Newt Lee in custody, as soon as Leo Frank arrived on the scene, investigators decided he's suspicious too. So it's him now. So now it's him. Detective Boots Rogers? Detective Boots Rogers?

I won't be breezing past that. How could you? It's your only option in life to become a detective if your name is Boots Rogers. You've got to be Detective Boots. That or you own a boot store. Yeah. He later said, Mr. Frank seemed extremely nervous. His questions were jumpy.

His voice was a refined voice, kind of ladylike. Oh, excuse you. He was rubbing his hands. He seemed to be excited. I was like, well, yeah, most people are pretty fucking nervous when being questioned by the police. Well, that's it. I never understand when they don't take that into consideration when it's like, yeah, if I was called in because someone was murdered in my factory, I too would be nervous.

That's the other thing. It's like this young girl was found in his factory. And he was rubbing his hands. Same. Literally. I rub my hands all the time. I'm telling this story and picking my lip as I tell the story. In fact, I'm literally rubbing my hands as we currently.

Because I'm also like, this is stressful. It is stressful. But they also thought it was so strange that all of that and then the fact that it had taken hours to get a hold of him. So they were like, you know what? I think you look like you have something to hide. And it's like, here's the thing. You want to point to the fact, okay, he's the last person to have seen her. Big deal.

That's relevant. Absolutely. That's valid. But they're not even using that as the reason they're like, he sounded ladylike. He was rubbing his hands. And he was busy that day. He sounded ladylike is such a, just like, okay. Sorry, his voice might sound that way.

I was like, well, how does any of this point, like, point to the thing that's actually relevant, which you can point to and actually try to like, he's the last one to see her? He's the last person to see her. So use that and then work off of that. Exactly. Now, when the detectives told Frank what happened, he was surprised as anyone would be to find out that somebody was killed in not only their place of employment, but, you know, a factory that he himself owned. Yeah. But he said he didn't know the name Mary Fagan.

But then when he was brought to the morgue and shown the body, he said, yes, that's the girl who came to my office, the day before to pick up her wages. But also, a lot of fucking people worked at that factory. He's not going to know everybody by name. Yeah. Now, with the techsubs at his side, he gave the mature of the factory and they examined the crime scene together. The next day, Atlantins woke up two headlines of a major break in the Fagan case with the arrest of a new suspect. National Pencil Company bookkeeper J.M. Gantt. Now, three weeks earlier, Gantt had been let go from his position at the factory.

And while he admitted going to the factory on the afternoon of the 25th when Mary was killed, he said it was only to retrieve some shoes that he had left behind a few weeks earlier when he had. he was fired. Well, that's a little more suspicious to me than anything else. Yes, it is. Now, but I also want to remind you that they still have Newtley in custody. Well, that's what I'm confused by. I'm like, oh, another one. I was like, is that allowed? Yeah. So he admitted that he did know Mary, J.M. Gant did, uh, as they worked on the same floor together, but he was like, we weren't close or friendly and we just knew each other. Uh, and also it was almost 6 p.m. By the time he got to the factory to pick up his shoes and then he went home after. So Mary had

been killed long before Gant even arrived at the factory. Given all of that and given everything in this investigation, it's unclear why they then moved their attention to Gant. Were they able, I wonder, to determine that he came to the factory at 6pm? Or if he was just saying that, and they weren't sure that they weren't sure that they could confirm that? Possibly, yeah. I think it's most likely that having been fired from the factory, they assumed that he had

some sort of like disgruntled. He's like disgruntled. Yeah, he's disgruntled, exactly. Now, in addition, the day that the body was discovered, he did take a train to Marietta, which investigators could have interpreted as trying to flee after the murder. Yeah. Or maybe he just traveled by train. He absolutely could have.

But in any case, Leo Frank corroborated Grant's story and vouched for his character. So there you go. So eventually he was released from custody. Leo Frank, on the other hand, would not be so lucky. Now with Gant ruled out, and Newtley, still in custody, but seeming less and less viable a suspect with each new piece of evidence, attention soon turned to the only other person who was known to be at the factory that day, Leo Frank. I'm wondering why they're not taking into consideration the fact that if Leo Frank did do it, that he could have just ponded off on that other guy.

He could have ponded off on that other guy. He could have not corroborated his story and just been like, yeah, I don't know. 100%. He let them keep going down that road. 100%. And he also would have been covered in scratches. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. The news of Frank's arrest should have been a bombshell, but it arrived with a subtlety that was pretty uncharacteristic of the press at that time. Rather than outright state that Frank was a suspect in the murder, investigators said they expected, quote, testimony of the superintendent, like owner of the factory, may lead to an arrest of the person guilty of the atrocious crime that shocked the whole city. Huh. But they were quick to add, no further arrest are expected soon.

How does that make that? That sounds like it's like what he's going to say. will lead to the arrest of somebody who did it, but we're not going to arrest anyone soon. Yep. Like, I'm sorry. Excuse me? Yeah, pretty cagey. Yeah, a little bit.

Now, despite the cagey statement, the truth was, at that point, detectives didn't have any other suspects or really any other evidence to help them advance the case forward. In fact, the evidence that they did have really didn't point to anyone in particular. But that being the case, it was a huge break when a few days after the murder, one of the machinists found blood and hair evidence. near one of the machines on the main floor. Oh, shit. The evidence strongly suggested that Mary had obviously been attacked on that floor, initially, not in the basement where her body was discovered. And just as important, the evidence was found not far from Leo Frank's office.

Okay. So we're starting to snowball a little bit here. Well, we're starting to get something actual to work with. Now, by then, Newt Lee had been working with the police to help them build a case against Frank. Oh. Because he's still being held in custody. Yeah. And likely threatened.

Among other things, he told detectives that Frank had ordered him out of the building around 4 p.m. and told him not to come back for several hours. During the coroner's inquest, Newtley also said that Leo Frank was rubbing his hands and told me to go out in town and not get back later than 6 o'clock. Okay. But also, if you think about when Mary was likely killed, it was earlier in the afternoon. Yeah, that makes sense. So still, this is weird. Yeah.

It's all strange. It's all super weird. Because obviously that sounds strange. It does for sure. The thing that sticks out to me, though, is that he makes a point to say that Leo Frank was rubbing his hands when the other investigator also said that and made it a like admission of guilt somehow. Now, on April 26, Leo Frank gave his deposition in the company of his lawyer, Luther Rosser. And he was one of the most powerful and prominent attorneys in Atlanta at that time. but Leo Frank's story was a straightforward recitation of what he did that day.

According to him, Mary came to pick up her pay a little after 12 p.m. And then she left. He said, I paid her. She went out of the office. It was impossible to see the direction that she went when she left. And then after paying her, he said he went out to get some lunch. When he returned to his office, he said he did some paperwork until he was interrupted by another employee, would come to the factory hoping he would give him a loan until payday.

Then, according to Frank, J.M. Gant arrived at the factory around six. and Leo told Newt Lee to accompany Gant to the floor where he'd left his shoes. After giving that permission, he locked up his office for the day, left and got home around 6.30 that night. Okay. Now when investigators pressed him for more details, he did become frustrated and flustered. Okay. Which can look like guilt. Absolutely.

Or it can be somebody who's telling you everything they know and doesn't have anything else to tell you and doesn't know what to say. And realizes that you're trying to get them to tell you something that's not true. Yeah. Well, his lawyer interjected, why it's preposterous. A man who would have done such a deed must be full of scratches and marks and his clothing must be bloody. And that is true. So given how likely that was to be true, Leo Frank, stripped down to his underwear and allowed investigators to examine his entire body, which was as far as they could see, free from any evidence of altercation.

Which is wild. This is a few days later. Like, barely, what is this, three days later? I mean, you have to even think about it. she had a swollen, her eye was swollen shut. So I guess it depends on if she was hit with something. Or if to me that comes across because they didn't really find anything that she was hit with. That sounds like a punch or some kind of, you would have some kind of mark on your hand from a punch like that.

Yeah. She had a laceration on her skull that's going to bleed. How did you get that? Like, you know what I mean? And then this is awful and very graphic, and I apologize ahead of time, but she was very violently raped. And she was obviously alive because blood was flowing. Yep. They found a lot of blood.

Yep. And she was fighting back. They said that. Yeah. It was clear. You would have something, some kind of heart. You would not get out of an altercation like that without a spot on your body. With something.

There had to have been something. Exactly. And like obviously you can get rid of bloody clothes, but you also have to think of like where we're at. Like, you know, it would be around the factory somewhere likely. And then you could say like. I mean, his initials were probably like sewn into his clothes back then. They'd be like, look, it's Franks. Leo Franks.

But still, for some reason, even though he proved that his body had not a scratch on it, officers were unconvinced. So at his home, Frank allowed them to examine the contents of his clothing hamper and of his clean clothing. And there was no evidence of blood to be found on any of his clothes, clean or dirty. Which is interesting. It is. Now, obviously, you could say he might have thrown that up. Yeah. Like, duh.

So in the absence of new information, the press started advancing. their own theories about the murder. Of those floated, the two most prominent were that Mary had been attacked by a white enslaver who intended to kidnap her and sell her to the highest bidder. What a theory. Uh-huh. Damn. The other was that she was taken for a drive by a male suitor before the assault and was

either drugged or given large amounts of alcohol and then assaulted. Okay. I don't know why anyone thought that. I just making shit up. She walked into the factory, and that's the last time she was seen. And outside, there was a large parade going on. So if anybody had, somebody would have seen her leave. Yeah.

But okay. Sure. Sell your papers, I guess. Yeah. Now, at the same time, several journalists were following the stories of Newtley and Leo Frank very closely. At that time in Atlanta, you'll be shocked to hear that the police had developed quite a reputation for the brutality, particularly when it came to black residents and other minorities. What? Can you believe it?

That's wild. For example, the ratio of black residents arrested over white residents was nearly double. And there had been at least one murder of a black man while in police custody. Jesus. In the last handful of years. All that to say, whether they intended to or not, the police in the press were fueling an already precarious situation with their talk of white slavery and their unwillingness to release a black man, Newt Lee, and a Jewish man, Leo Frank, despite a major lack of evidence. Yeah, it's like, I don't know. I feel like you're showing your ass this. 100%. Now, in an attempt to build his own case for innocence,

Leo Frank hired Harry Scott, who was a detective with the Pinkerton Agency, and he hoped that Scott would be able to help find his own evidence to clear Leo of any suspicion. Unfortunately, what Leo Frank didn't know was that while many of the old Pinkerton agents did have poor relationships with law enforcement, Harry Scott was one of a few who had always been very closely aligned with the police. Oh, boy. So this meant that despite his being an independent investigator, there was still a good chance there that he was going to back the official story. Whoa. Yeah.

So this was like shooting yourself in the foot without knowing. As it turned out, after just having one conversation with Leo Frank, Scott came away with what he thought were several troubling realizations. He said he thought it was strange that Leo Frank had now come to strongly suspect Jam Gantt was the killer based on his previous relationship with Mary. that was pretty weird because when he was initially interviewed by the police, Leo Frank said he didn't know really anything about Mary and didn't even know her name, but now he knew that she had a relationship. Which it's also like a relationship. Where did that come from?

Right. And then there was also the matter of the newly discovered piece of information that Frank hadn't told the police. According to him on the day of the murder, he said there was an unidentified black man at the factory who was seen by another worker. But he hadn't told police that. But also, I don't think he trusts the police right now and he hired you independently so I can kind of see why he would trust. Also, the only reason I'm playing devil's advocate so hard here is because I'll just let you know, Leo Frank didn't do this. Yeah, I was going to say that's important to know ahead of time. Now, for the most part, the story Leo Frank told Harry Scott was the same story he told police several days earlier.

Obviously, you know, a few details missing. And the story he told his lawyer. it's unclear why the pieces of information hadn't come up before that he hadn't told the police or where they had come from in the first place. But what is clear is that the addition of this information did make him look more suspicious. Which absolutely. That I can understand. And Harry Scott there was quick to tell the police as much.

Yeah. Which again, that is something that you're not telling the whole story first off. As soon as the story changes. It looks weird. It does. Yeah. I think it came from a place of desperation. Probably.

That's the thing. Like, knowing, in hindsight, you can absolutely see that. But at the time, I can understand why you go, whoa, whoa. Yeah. Why didn't you say that before? Fully agree. Yeah. We will find out that there was another man at the factory at that time that people didn't know about.

Yeah. Now, the story took another wild turn when just one day later, the lead detective on the case, John Black, was seen, or was searching Newtley's apartment and discovered within a metal trash barrel, a white linen shirt that was soaked to the armpits with blood. According to Detective Black, everything about it seemed wrong. For one thing, the worst stains appeared to be on the inside of the shirt rather than the outside, almost like somebody turned it inside out and used it to mop up like a large amount of blood.

And there was also the fact that the shirt appeared to be clean and freshly pressed, almost like it hadn't been worn yet. It was weird. Yeah. Now, to the detective, all of these peculiarities meant only one thing. The bloody shirt was a plant intended to point the finger at New Lee and away from the real killer. Jeez, this is getting weird. It's a strange case.

It's getting weirder and weirder. It's unclear how Detective Black made the leap, but at some point after finding the shirt, he concluded that not only was the bloody shirt a plant, but that it had been planted by the real killer, and that was Leo Frank. Okay. There's really no evidence to say that he planted that shirt. Yeah. But Detective Black said, Frank was trying to point the real thing. suspicion at Newt Lee. He wanted his own house search so that when officers had gone through it and nothing had been found there, he could tell them to go and search Newt Lee's house.

Okay. I guess. Sure. That's just a theory, though. That's not evidence. This is tenuous, everybody. So until that point in the investigation, the status of Newt Lee and Leo Frank had been that they were detained. However, with what the detectives had learned from Harry Scott and the increased suspicion of Leo Frank, both men were now officially under the arrest for the murder of Mary Fagan. which again, why are they both under arrest if you only are really strongly suspicious of one? Yeah. It's weird. It is weird.

Is it so that you can get information from the other? I think that's exactly what it is. False information of that? Yeah. So when the coroner's inquest finally got underway in early May, it quickly became the biggest news in Georgia. By that time, the press had published every sensational aspect of the case that they could find. And those they couldn't, they just kind of used a little creative license to create. Yeah.

You know. For example, when machinist R. P. Barrett testified before the panel, he described a deeply sexist and misogynistic work environment. You don't say. Yeah, he told the jury that he, quote, frequently heard that the building was used for immoral purposes. One of the owners of a neighboring business testified that frolics were secretly held in that place. Frolics, you say. I want to host a frolic. What's a frolic? I don't know. The way they're describing frolic might not be what you want to host at your host. No, probably not what they're describing, but a frolic. It's hosting a frolic sounds fun, but I think they're meaning it in a. Frolick sounds majestic. I think Frolick may be a code for rendezvous.

Oh, I don't want to host that. Yeah, yeah, not that. But Frolick, what's frolic about? I love frolicking, so. So there's really no way to know who was influencing the testimony of these two guys or where they even got these ideas. But the motive of their testimony was clearly to give the impression of a work environment that under Leo Frank's supervision had become. had become this like den of corruption where no woman was safe. Damn.

Yeah. And that was just one of the many examples of testimony intended to point the finger at Frank. In his own testimony about the investigation, our good old pal, Detective Boots Rogers. Detective Boots on the ground, claimed that Frank, quote, changed the tape and the time clock at the factory to align with his version of events. And that his demeanor on the day that he was called to the factory to speak with police was that of a nervous and anxious man. Okay. With a ladylike voice. Yeah, apparently.

Those who testified in Frank's defense, though, were met with a lot of scrutiny and suspicion from the prosecutor, who seemed very obviously determined to poke holes in the story because that's their job. According to Lemmy Quinn, the factory foreman, he had been in the factory shortly after Mary picked up her pay, and he saw her leave the factory, he said. But his testimony, so, and because of that, his testimony directly challenged the theory that Mary had been attacked by Frank in the factory and had never left. Yeah? Initially, investigators did their best to accuse him of lying. But his story was actually confirmed by another employee, Corinthia Hall, who had lunch with Quinn that afternoon after he left the factory. And she testified as a working woman at the pencil company, she never felt unsafe. And she described Frank's treatment of women as unimpeachable.

Wow. Okay. That's a different. That's very different. And she actually works there. And she's a woman. And she's a woman. Yeah.

We can attest for each other. Yeah. Now, despite the lack of evidence and multiple statements from witnesses now backing up Newtly in Leo Frank's stories, the coroner's inquest came to an end on the afternoon of May 8th with a recommendation that the case be sent to a grand jury for a ruling. By most accounts, the outcome of the inquest was heavily influenced by the testimony of Harry Scott, the private detective hired by Leo Frank, and lead detective John Black, who both believed Frank was guilty. Yeah. And also from testimony of Nellie Pettis, who was a sister-in-law of one of the. factory employees. She said that she had gone to the factory about a month earlier to pick up her sister-in-law's pay. And she said Leo Frank supposedly made an open proposal and even intimated

the offer of money. It is wild the difference between people's interpretations of him or experience with him. They're vastly different. They're literally on opposite ends of the spectrum. It's literally like his treatment of woman was unimpeachable or he offered me money to have an encounter. Or he openly offered money for, it's like, which one is he? I'm like, can he not lie in the middle somewhere? Yeah, like what's going on here? Hopefully closer to Carinthia Halls, does that way? Now, given the widespread corruption within the Atlanta Police Department at the time and

the press's pension for exaggerating or just straight up lying to sell papers, it's difficult to say why investigators had become so confident that Leo Frank was the killer or why they believed that Newt Lee was his accomplice. Yeah. Like, how does that even work? Like, where do we get there? Right. According to Steve O'Ne, who will link in the show notes, it wasn't so much the evidence against Leo Frank in particular as it was the lack of evidence against anybody else. After having ruled out the few suspects that they did have at the start of the investigation, the only person they had left to reasonably point the finger at was Leo Frank apparently. But in all his attempts to help himself out of predicaments, like hiring the Pinkertons, all he did was make himself look more guilty, unfortunately. It was almost like investigators were so convinced he was. the killer or determined for him to be convicted, that every attempt to clear his name was just

further evidence of guilt. Damn. The thing that is so confusing to me, though, is that if you're using those notes as evidence, it's a black man that she described. Yeah, that's even further pointing away from him. But then it was determined that they weren't in Mary's handwriting, so I don't know what they're still using the notes for as evidence. if they're trying to say that Newt Lee was there?

Well, I think I wonder, so if they're using those as evidence, then I guess they would be taking it as Leo Frank is the person who did this and then tried to pawn it off on Newt Lee. Yeah. By writing the notes to say it was a black man. Yep. I think that's probably maybe what they're going with here. I think you're right.

Yeah. Now, when the case went to the grand jury in mid-May, the prosecution presented obviously what evidence they have. which was not much. For the most part, what they presented was the same evidence that the witnesses from the coroner's inquest had said. But there were several witnesses called to testify who didn't seem to know why they'd even been called in the first place. Good. Yeah.

That's good. When the grand jury reconvened on May 24th, they reviewed the evidence for about 10 minutes before returning an indictment for murder against Leo Frank. Whoa. Throughout the trial, the prosecution presented no documented evidence to the jury, literally old. testimony and hearsay. That's it. And obviously that's significant because among the most compelling testimony that the jury heard was from a police officer who took the sworn affidavit from a man, James Conley, who was one of the janitors at the factory. James Conley told detectives that Leo Frank had asked him to write the notes found with the body. Oh, shit. So yeah, your theory is absolutely correct,

but now it's not Newt writing the letters. It's James. Him having someone else do it. But strangely, So he said he wrote the notes, but strangely he could not identify said notes and claimed he only recognized them when they were read to him from the newspaper. And he, quote, believed they were the ones he wrote. Huh. Weird. Yeah. Now, the declaration also was only made after Conley was arrested because somebody reported seeing him washing a bloody shirt at the factory days after the murder. When he was questioned, he said it was his only shirt.

and he was washing it so it would appear clean at the inquest. Even though at the time he made that statement, he hadn't been called to the inquest as a witness. Um, uh, uh, also, do you want to explain why your shirt is bloody? Yeah, no one's being like, hey, what is that? Yeah. No, we're just not going to, the only bloody shirt that we can really look at that's like, whoa, what's that?

Okay. Yeah. Now, not only did he not testify at the inquest or the request or the, grand jury trial, but the prosecution also declined to present the affidavit for examination by the jury or the defense. In fact, the contents of the affidavit were so scarcely described for the jury by John Black, to whom James Conley had supposedly given the information about the notes. So it was just like reiterated vaguely to the jury. According to Detective Black, Conley said to him that Leo Frank called him into his office that day before, actually the day before the murder, and

asked him to write two notes and in exchange he received $2.50 and a pack of cigarettes. It's like, okay, so this was also premeditated? Yeah, like, where are we going here? And also, why would that be, how does that even make sense in the jury's mind? Because Mary wasn't working that day. She stopped in to get her paycheck. Yeah. Leo Frank wouldn't even know necessarily that she was going to be coming in to get her check. No, because it's like she. She wasn't scheduled to work. She wasn't scheduled to work. And she was kind of. coming in for a pretty small paycheck considerably. Yeah.

So he wouldn't have been expecting her. No. So that doesn't make sense at all. Now, it was also worth noting that Conley was arrested on May 1st, the day that he was discovered washing the shirt at the factory. But it was only on the 24th that he wanted to speak to John Black about what he knew. So that begs the question, why did he sit in a jail cell for almost a month before deciding to share vital information about the case on the very day that the grand jury was expected to return

its indictment. Yeah. Hello? Hello? Also, he had previously stated to the police that he didn't know how to write. So if that was the case, how did he write two different notes to be left beside Mary's body? Huh. Not only did he didn't know how to write and had previously told them that, but then he didn't

recognize the notes until they were read to him from the newspaper. And he wouldn't recognize them because he couldn't read. Yeah. That makes sense. Hello? And they never brought him to testify his own testimony. The jury just got to hear vague testimony reiterated to them. This seems legit.

Yeah, for sure. I'd be so convinced on that jury. Yeah, this seems legit. It pisses me off. No. According to Steve Ony, the statement from Conley only came about after he'd been in solitary confinement for a period of time. Which is like very human and fine. Yeah, totally.

No problem at all. And also only. came after he was intensely, quote-unquote, and repeatedly interrogated for several days by lead detective Black and Harry Scott. I'd like you all to just picture what intensely interrogating a black man in the early 1900s in Atlanta was like. Yeah. So one paper, the Georgian even went as far as accusing the investigators of manipulating calmly in order to get information they could use against Frank. I think they were on to something. Yeah. The paper said the police questions were, of course, all put with the idea of gaining information against Leo Frank.

The police refused to admit that suspicion was turning or should turn to Conley, who has told one falsehood after another since his arrest. Yeah. Like, let's be real. That's so crazy to me, though, because it's like, you've had this guy sitting in jail who you found washing a bloody shirt at the very place where a body was found. And you don't sit there and be like, well, wait a minute. And he's like, I don't know how to read it, right?

I couldn't have written those notes. Actually, I did write those notes, but for Leo Frank. Whoops. And it's like, well, what the, we're not going to ask about the bloody shirt? No, no. Now, the Georgian wasn't wrong in their assertion that the case against Frank appeared to be crumbling at a very crucial time for investigators. It was clear that they needed a convincing piece of evidence that they could give the grand jury to ensure an indictment so that they didn't look fucking stupid. Yeah.

But the problem was the first statement they elicited from Jim Conley was contradicted and undermined by several things that were known about. about him, so much so that even investigators on the case found it hard to believe. But fortunately, he was willing to give a second statement to detectives. How convenient. Oh, Lord. And that one was far more detailed and cleaned up some of the errors in his previous statement. Oh, that's nice. And you believe it? That's really convenient. It reminds me of Jesse Miskelly. I was just thinking of that. Now, once that perfect second statement was obtained, almost every detective's opinion of Conley seemed to change in an instant. Oh, good. He went from being a known liar to what the press described as the missing link, which connects the chain of circumstantial evidence detectives had gathered.

Wow. Yeah. How the mighty have gotten mightier. And that was the statement that was described to the grand jury. And it was that description that appears to have moved everything in favor of the prosecution and secured a guilty verdict. Damn. So once the indictment was returned by the grand jury, or not a guilty verdict, I should say an indictment, things started to move quickly. A trial was quickly set for late July, and both sides started preparing their cases for the jury.

When the trial began on July 28th, they kept up the speedy pace, selecting and seating the entire jury in a few hours. Wow. Yeah, that doesn't happen. That was pretty speedy. Yeah. The prosecution's case was simple. They theorized that Leo Frank murdered Mary Fagan on the afternoon that she came to pick up her wages, and then enlisted the help of Jim Conley to write the notes in order to port investigators toward New York. Newt Lee. And to that end, prosecutor Dorsey claimed that he would call upon Jim Conley,

who they claimed had been regularly relied upon by Leo Frank in his pursuit of young women at the factory. Oh, now that's the thing. Even though the only other witness they had that worked at the factory said his treatment of women was unimpeachable. Yeah. Yeah. Now, the first witness called by the prosecution was Newtley, the janitor who discovered Mary's body. Up until that point, he had been sitting in police custody, and his appearance in court was the first time he'd been. free in months. Wow. Yeah. He described the experience of finding the body and of Leo Frank's demeanor on the day of the murder. The prosecution did their best to frame their questions and Lee's

answers in a way that obviously would cast Leo Frank in a suspicious light, including a now supposed meeting between Lee and Frank, where Frank tried to get their stories straight. Wow. So that's just been added? But why would he have a meeting with Lee to get their story straight if he was ultimately framing Lee. I was just going to say, how is this working now? Why would he even talk to Lee? Yeah. Now, he was just, Newley, was one of just many witnesses called by the prosecutor, the prosecutor to smear Leo Frank's character and make his ordinary behavior seem suspect in some way. But for every witness called by the prosecution, there were at least as many

Frank supporters sitting in the audience hoping to be called by the defense as character witnesses. Rebecca Carson told a reporter, every girl employed at the factory believes Mr. Frank is innocent. Wow. She was one of more than 30 factory employees who were rallying behind Leo Frank and were eager to refute all the claims made against him by the prosecution. Another female employee said, if he hadn't been so intent upon his work, he would have taken half holiday on that Saturday and wouldn't even be accused as he is now.

Which is wild. It's like he was clearly dedicated. Yeah. Now, in a lot of ways, the trial was just a replay of the grand jury. lot of the same witnesses were there. The scant evidence that investigators had managed to pull together was presented. But what was different was the defense mounted by Rosser. According to the defense team, it was actually Jim Conley who killed Mary Fagan.

And the police had been manipulating him in order to get evidence against their prime suspect. In support of that, the defense planned to present a timeline of Leo Frank's schedule that day, which would have put him out of the factory when the murder was even believed to have been committed. He wasn't even there yet. Yeah, because he didn't come until later, right? Uh-huh. They also planned, or I think he was at lunch, actually. He went into the factory earlier that day, then went to lunch, then came back.

So they also planned to present several witnesses who would testify that not only did Leo Frank and Mary Fagan have no prior relationship, but that Leo was as far from the sexual deviant described by the prosecutor as one could even be. But the problem the defense was up against wasn't the evidence or the prosecutor. prosecutions arguments, it was the three months' worth of sensational headlines about the murder. With every paper in Georgia vying for readers, there was no shortage of scandalous headlines. And even the most discerning reader would have been hard pressed to tell fact from fiction. So that was heavily influencing the case.

Yeah, absolutely. And then there was also the matter of Jim Conley's very detailed statement. Despite having a questionable reputation, the release of that second statement he signed did prove to be very persuasive to the jury. Yeah. Probably because he didn't write it himself. Now, in his closing statement, Rosser reiterated his clients in a sense and underscored the evidence that pointed toward Jim Conley,

calling him a drunk and a liar. And he suggested that had Leo Frank not been Jewish, it was unlikely that he would have ever been arrested or charged in the first place. But he said investigators in the prosecution had already invested so much in Frank's guilt that by the time it reached the grand jury, they couldn't turn back anymore. That's a wild. Yeah. In his closing statement, Hugh Dorsey accused Leo Frank of being a sexual deviant who had killed Mary Fagan in order to keep her from reporting the sexual assault.

And he was, Leo Frank was, Dorsey told the jury, a murderer fit only for the gallows and a felon's grave. Damn. Yeah. That's poetic. Despite having literally no evidence. Yeah. If this wasn't a wrongfully accused person, I'd be like, whoa. Yeah, good argument. Yeah. Now, the next day on August 25th, the jury deliberated for under two hours before returning to the courtroom to deliver a guilty verdict.

When the verdict was read, the crowd outside of the courtroom erupted in cheers of celebration. Immediately, the defense motion for a mistrial, arguing that because of the spectator's behavior possibly intimidating the jury this entire time, Leo Frank hadn't had a fair trial. There you go. The judge listened to the argument, but denied the motion, arguing there was no way of knowing what the crowd was cheering for or whose side they were even on throughout the trial. Well, and it's like not knowing what we know now, like, obviously they're going to cheer for somebody who like rapes and murders a 13-year-old girl to be put in jail. But now knowing, you're like, fuck.

They were cheering because they were racist. Now the next day, Leo Frank returned to court where he was sentenced to death by hanging for the murder of Mary Fagan. And when asked whether he had anything to say before being removed from the court, he said, Your Honor, I say now, as I have always said, I am innocent. Further than this is my case is in the hands of my counsel. When all was said and done, Judge Rohn set a date of October 10th, 1913 for execution, pending any appeals or intercession on Frank's behalf. The announcement of Leo Frank's conviction divided residents of Atlanta and even as far away as Boston at the time, because we know what's up.

Writing in the Jewish advocate, the magazine editor called the conviction a, quote, monstrous miscarriage of justice. and implied a conspiracy on part of the police to frame the defendant. The editor wrote, The only proven fact as developed by the evidence was that Mary Fagan was murdered in the pencil factory of which Frank was the superintendent. It was Jim Conley's evidence only that enabled the state to get the case to the jury.

Who knows what influence was brought to bear on Jim Conley? Yeah, because it came out of nowhere. Yeah. That statement was on the very last minute that it could have been entered. Observers weren't the only one skeptical that the jury had made the right decision in finding Frank guilty. Even the judge himself in his refusal to grant a mistrial said, I'm not certain of this man's guilt.

Wow. But I don't have to be convinced. The jury was convinced. Wow. That's huge. That's wild to hear out loud. Yeah. That really is.

Now, obviously, that statement hid behind due process, but it's clear that he wasn't convinced by the prosecution's argument. as the jury was. In fact, a month later, when the issue of a new trial was heard in his court in October, the judge made a surprising statement regarding Frank's supposed guilt. He said, I have given this question long consideration. I want to say here that although I heard the evidence in the arguments during these 30 days, I do not know this morning whether Leo Frank is innocent or guilty. Wow.

So he continued to say that. That's fascinating. Now, which I'm also just like, that's insane that you can even say that and just like didn't. allow for a retrial? What? I know. Now, in February 1914, his Leo Frank's appeal for a new trial was heard by the state Supreme Court. As they had done in the lower court, his lawyers argued that due to extensive press coverage and the uncontrolled and increasingly angry group of spectators in and outside of court, Frank had been denied a fair trial. Among other things, his lawyer pointed out that throughout the trial, salesmen moved in and out of the crowd and were selling placards

announcing that Frank was Jewish. What the fuck? Yup. And otherwise, quote, stirring up passions of the crowd. What does that have to do with anything? What the fuck? Just so you know, this guy on trial is Jewish. In case that helps you.

Like, that's just like, what? Hello? Excuse you? How was that even fucking allowed? Damn. They just didn't give a fuck back then. No, they sure didn't. Let's go.

Now, despite all of that very compelling evidence of complete bias in the original case, the state Supreme Court voted four to two in favor of upholding the lower court's dismissal for the new trial. Now, with their refusal to retry the case, the state Supreme Court left Leo Frank with only two options, convinced the United States Supreme Court to hear the case, or convince the governor of his innocence and obtain a pardon. Neither really seemed like viable options, but in the wake of the state Supreme Court's decision, the case started or really continued to receive even more attention. At the time of Frank's conviction, the prosecutor's office also stated that they intended

to charge Jim Conley as an accessory, which would have resulted in a three to five year jail term. But when the trial was over, the prosecution's office simply let Conley go free. That's different. Yeah. Dorsey later said, that's quite different. It's not the same. Dorsey later said Conley had nothing to do with the murder. He was just Frank's tool, and he ought not to be punished. No. You can't punish people for doing that.

He would have been an accessory to murder, dog. Yeah, don't punish him for it. What? What? He was just a tool in the murder. He just let somebody convince him to help. I think that's also illegal. And I think that's why that whole fucking jail term exists.

No way. You shouldn't be punished for that. But okay. That's crazy. So that got people talking even more because that seemed pretty fucking strange that he would just be released. Seems a little weird. I can't imagine being an honest. looker at this time. Now, by March, there was more evidence to suggest that Jim Conley might have known more about the murder than he originally let on.

Good. During a press conference where he again emphatically stated his client's innocence, Rosser introduced a sworn affidavit from another employee at the factory, Helen Ferguson, who claimed that just one week before Mary Fagan was murdered, Conley had accosted her in exactly the same spot on the first floor where Mary was believed to have been killed. That's relevant. She said, I walked over to a dark place behind the stairway and started to pick up a box when I caught sight of Conley. He was drunk, seemingly drunk as could be.

I was scared and I picked up the box and started to hurry away. Then he came over toward me menacingly and I drew back. I dropped the box. And as he pushed nearer me, I jumped to the stairs and ran away as fast as I could. I mean, to me, that feels predatory. and aggressive and relevant. Yep.

And where was that affidavit beforehand? Now it seemed that each new piece of evidence and testimony that was discovered after Leo Frank had been sentenced pointed the finger completely away from him and directly toward Jim Conley. But when the state and the courts were presented with that evidence, they just continued to be like, no, we got the right guy. Jesus Christ, they will never ever admit it.

No. Yeah. Finally, in June of 1915, the case and all the evidence made it to the desk of Governor John Slayton for consideration of a commutation for the death sentence. In a long statement where he cited multiple conflicts in the testimony and evidence not allowed during trial that probably should have been allowed. Yeah. Slayton indicated that he would grant the application for clemency. Damn. Now, with the commutation approved, it seemed Leo Frank was finally going to be set free after two years of wrongful and prison.

And a fucking nightmare. Yeah. But the problem was, remember, people were divided on this case. So not everybody thought that he had been wrongfully imprisoned. It's so wild to me, too, when this shit happens because I'm like, you're not part of the case. You don't. You don't have access to all the shit that everyone who is part of the case has access to. You're reading the news.

Yeah. So you can't know. You cannot know. No. Not salacious and bias. Yeah. So to the people who believed in. in the certainty of Leo Frank's guilt, the idea that he would be set free, even if it was only for a new trial, was unacceptable.

So on July 18th, another inmate attempted to take the law into his own hands, and he slashed Leo Frank's throat. Jesus. The wound was deep and it was serious, and it left prison doctors concerned that Leo Frank might not survive the attack. Oh, wow. But within a few weeks, he was luckily and remarkably on the mend, and it seemed that he was out of the woods and headed for release. then the unimaginable happened. Now, in the early morning hours of August 17th, 1915, a mob of 25 men converged on Milledgeville State Prison

and dragged Leo from his bed, kidnapping him from the prison. Confused and disoriented, he was thrown into the back of a truck and driven almost 200 miles to Marietta. Holy shit. Yeah. Along the near seven-hour drive, a coordinated group of tele... A coordinated group telephone from various outlets.

post to make sure that the road to Marietta was cleared ahead of the mob. When they arrived just outside of Frey's Gin around 7 a.m., Leo was pulled from the car. His hands were cuffed behind him. They tied his feet at the ankles. He was forced to then stand on a small table under a large tree, while the mob tied a noose around his neck. And then the table was kicked out from under him, and he was hanged. Holy shit. This gets even more graphic. When it was clear that he was dead, one of the onlookers, a former judge named Newt Morris, urged the men to cut the body down, hoping that it would calm them down.

A former judge. Yeah. Unfortunately, cutting down the body had the opposite effect. When Frank's body hit the ground, one of the onlookers, Robert E. Lee Howell rushed forward and started... Robert E. Lee Howell. Got it. Period. Yeah.

So name him. Yeah. He rushed forward. and started stomping on Leo Frank's face as others in the group kicked the body or tried to cut away souvenirs of clothing. We're a disgusting species. We're disgusting species. We really are. Eventually, some men from the mob were able to get the body back and it was transported. And Leo Frank was transported back to Atlanta.

When the body was delivered to Atlanta, it drew an equally large crowd, all demanding to see the body. We're not okay. were surprisingly sympathetic to the mob. One citizen wrote a statement to the press that read, The public will never know the identities of these 25 brave and loyal men who took into their own hands the execution of a law that had been stripped away from them by Governor Slayton. I would not advise inquisitive authorities or persons to try to reveal them.

The worst part about this is we couldn't sit here in 2026 and be like, holy shit. Times shit was crazy back then. I see us here again. Yep. And that's what makes me like, fuck. Like, this is not one of those that we could look at a few years ago and go, yeah. We have a bunch of masks men running around doing fucked up shit.

Well, and it's just, and also you look on the internet, people, like, because we look at these cases and we see these kind of things happen, like lynchings. Like, you look into lynchings. It is the most horrifying shit you will ever read in your life. And there are several. right now, in fact, there are several black people who have been found hanging that have been labeled a suicide. Yep. Some of which are being found to be, huh, wait a minute, maybe not.

Yep. So it's like it's not in the past. No. And people are treating people like subhuman, othering others. And it's not on mainstream news. And also you look on the internet and you will see because you look at this and you say, how can a crowd sit there and watch somebody be hanged? look at the comments, babe.

It just doesn't. You look at the internet right now, people have no humanity left. No. Like, there is, people don't, they watch videos of people dying, they see murder. Oh, we're so desensitized. And people are so desensitized to it. They joke about it. You look at a common section on these things, and it's like, you can look at, even like,

I think recently, it might have been yesterday the day before, there was like a news helicopter that crashed while it was covering another accident. And two people died in that helicopter and there is footage from the helicopter of it going down. And you can hear them as it's going down. In the comments are, you'll see people just making jokes about it, like make it like punning, thinking their cue, hoping they get their like thousand likes from their funny comment. We're here again. Yeah. And I don't know how we got here, but we have to stop being here.

We sure do. We sure fucking do. It's fucking terrifying. It is. It's scary. Like, I hate this shit. It's fucked up. It's too relevant.

No, it's so important to point out that, like, obviously a lot of times in these stories were like, holy shit, times were crazy back then, but they're just as crazy. If not worse now. We swung around. And it's not, it's not great. We got to get out of this. Yeah. Well, Leo Frank's body was held under guard in Atlanta for a few more days before being transported

to New York by train, where he was ultimately buried. To the people of Marietta and doubtless many in Atlanta. across the state, the governor's commutation of Leo Frank was a betrayal of the people's will. So they felt that Leo Frank got what he deserved. But there was just as many who blamed the police, the state, the press, and the Pinkertons for the way that they had clearly twisted the truth and manipulated the public into believing something that likely was not true. Governor Slayton called the members of the mob cowardly assassins and vowed to capture and prosecute every last one of them. Similar cries for justice came from other corners of the state, but inevitably, no one was held accountable for the murder of Leo Frank. That's not a single person.

That's wild. Not one single person. Wow. Which is weird because you all 25 men ran into a prison where I'm sure officers recognized some of y'all. Yeah, you can't just run into a prison. So you had to be helped into that prison. Yep. And how did you get past the bars?

Somebody helped you do that. Somebody opened the cell. Now, this is... This will get you real, man. This is, I want to say the worst part of the case, but every part of this case is so awful that this is really just... This just makes you go. Yeah. So decades later, in 1982, 83-year-old, Alonzo Man, who was a former office boy for the

National Pencil Company, came forward to their press to reveal a secret that he had kept hidden for 70 years. He was 14 years old at the time working at the factory five days a week, including Saturdays. And he had been at the factory on the day that Mary was killed. And he saw with his own eyes, Jim Conley, carrying the girl's body into the basement of the factory. God damn. Later that day, Alonzo told his mother what he had seen, and she told him to remain silent

unless somebody asked him directly whether he knew anything, but nobody ever asked. Fuck. And also, they didn't interview everybody in that fucking place? No. You didn't interview the office boy that was working that day? No. They had no idea who the fuck was working. They said that they talked to everybody who was working that day.

Apparently not. Jim Conley was working that day. Alonzo Man was working that day. He said later, there will be some people who will be angry at me because I kept all this silent until it was too late to save Leo Frank's life. They will say that being young is no excuse. They will blame my mother. The only thing I can say is she did what she thought was best for me and my family. Four years later in March of 1986, the state of Georgia awarded a posthumous pardon to Leo Frank Frank after the Anti-Defamation League and the American Jewish Committee submitted a petition

arguing that they should not have to prove Frank's innocence a requirement the state had put forth two years later, or earlier, excuse me. Now following closely on the heels of Alonzo Man's statement, the state's part and effectively brought an end to the tragic story of the murders of Mary Fagan and Leo Frank. What a fucking tragedy from beginning to end, truly. Because also, Alonzo Man and his family obviously felt like if they came forward with information, the finger was going to be pointed next at them.

I think that's such an important point to me. Even sadder when you think of it because it's like they, that's, this man had to not only lose parts of his life to being imprisoned, but then be murdered. In one of the most horrific ways you can imagine, have his name smeared for decades. Newt Lee had his name smeared for how long. And it's like, and they get, and somebody knew it all along. Yep. And one didn't say anything. But also was so affected by the climate that they were in that they felt like they couldn't say anything.

Because look at how minorities in this area of Atlanta were being treated back then. That's even worse. That's why it's literally like tragedy from beginning to end. Because there was just no such thing as justice. How can you have justice in a place that is that corrupt? Can we just stop othering people? For real. Why do you give off? Like we're just fuck what people believe. God damn. Why do you give us? Can we just treat people as? Because people aren't hurting each other. I don't care what you believe.

Treat it as a case-by-case basis, man. By all means. You're a shitty person. You're a shitty person. It doesn't matter what you look like. What you look like, where you're from, what you believe, any other. What you do. What you believe in.

It's wild. It's wild. It's dumb as hell. This case was so hard to get through and then to present all over again. I got even angrier than I was when I was editing it. And I just want us to get better. Yeah. I know.

I have like. And listening to this just made me go, it's not better. And that's what's like... I hope Gen Alpha saves us. Come on. Save us, man. Save us, Jen Alpha. Somebody save us.

The love of Lord. We need to save ourselves. We need to all... SOS. SOS. Yeah. Save ourselves. There you go.

Do you have like a fucked fact? Or maybe a fun fact? You know what? I'm going to give you a fun fact. Can you give us the funest fact of all time, please? Um, this is funny. Tell us. Coalas have fingerprints that are really,

similar to human beings fingerprints, so they have accidentally messed up police crime scenes sometimes. I hate that they've messed up crime scenes, but other than that, I'm obsessed with it. That's fucked and fun. It's fucked and fun. Look at you. Just dumb and whammy. Why do their fingerprints look like ours? That's so creepy. I don't know. They also have really smooth brains. They do have really smooth brains. So they're like real dumb. Sometimes I wonder if I have a smooth brain. In fact, I think eucalyptus sleeves are like toxic. Yeah, that's why they're sleeping all the time. No, you're so right. It's that koala show that the kids watch. I watched that episode too.

Is these koala world on Netflix? If your kids like animals, watch it. It's great. Yeah. Well, with all that being said, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. Not as weird as a single fucking person that I've just described to you in this case. Like that.

Thank you and good night.