Morbid - The Mysterious Disappearance of Dorothy Arnold Part 2

Episode Date: April 26, 2022

In part one we learned about the circumstances surrounding Dorothy Arnold’s disappearance. By all means it just seemed like she went out for a day of shopping and then disappeared into thin air. In part 2 Alaina delivers some theories that have been visited over the past hundred years and we both come to our own conclusion on what the heck happened to Dorothy Arnold. What’s your conclusion? Instagram page for information on the case of Yanira Cedillos  As always, thank you to our sponsors: Page 1 Books: First-time subscribers get 15% off with the code MORBID at page1books.com  Everlane: Go to everlane.com/MORBID and sign up for 10% off your first order HelloFresh: Go to HelloFresh.com/morbid16 and use code morbid16 for up to 16 free meals AND 3 free gifts! Babbel: Right now, save up to 60% off your subscription when you go to BABBEL.com/MORBID Good RX: For simple, smart savings on your prescriptions, check GoodRx. Go to GoodRX.com/morbid Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. We're back. We're back with part two. Part two of the crazy disappearance of Dorothy Arnold. And we are going to get into some theories today. It's going to get wild today. This case is bizarre. It is real bizarre. It's how bizarre. It's how bizarre. Like, it's a crazy. And it doesn't really have an which I apologize for. Yeah, it's currently unsolved, even though the police still claim that this case is solved. The police say it's solved. That's all they'll say.

They won't tell you what happened, but they just say it's solved. De fuck. Exactly. You're going to say de fuck a lot during this one, I tell you. De fuck. It's going to happen a lot. Well, before we do get into your lovely part too today, I did just want to talk about some current true crime news that is going on right now. Over this past weekend, I'm sure you did too.

I got tagged in this story a bunch, and it is gut-wrenching. Yeah, and especially because I hadn't heard much about it, and it happened, you know, in the beginning of March. Yeah, which is, hello, sad. This 30-year-old mother of three babies, her name is Janira Sidios. She was celebrating her 30th birthday, I believe it was March 3rd, and she was at a casino with some of her friends, and I don't think the night ended how she had hoped it would. I think they got in an argument.

Yeah. And she ended up needing a ride back home. So she called a friend, but then when the friend got to the area where she said she was going to be, Janira wasn't there. So then Yonira called the friend or the friend called her, and the friend heard this like yelling voice in the background. And it was a male voice. Mail voice. And then the phone call got disconnected. Yenira did call back and say that she was okay and everything was fine.

But after that night, she went missing. Now... On her 30th birthday. On her 30th birthday, and again, a mother of three. Yeah. Now, luckily, there's somebody in custody who we definitely think did this and killed Yanira, unfortunately. His name is Juan Gastilum, was it? I think it is.

Yeah, Juan Gastilum. He's 27 years old and he is an ex-boyfriend. And she lived with him apparently at one point. She did live with him at one point. She wasn't currently living with him when this happened. But they did go back to her apartment and they do believe that she was killed at one point or another. And he's being charged with rape and murder. Yeah, rape and murder.

and they found different evidence at a couple locations. He, like, cleaned his car at a gas station. He threw stuff out at a gas station. And they said that he was actually unknowingly and unwillingly giving a lot of evidence just by talking. Which is great. So the police were keeping him talking for a while, and they actually didn't release this for a while because they were trying to keep him talking because he is, you know, unwillingly giving information, which is a good thing.

Right. But now they actually have him because of that. They have him. thing. But what they don't have is, unfortunately, Yanira's body. We don't know where her body is, and her family is begging people to help. I'm going to read this. This is an Instagram that they've set up just to, like, provide updates and just kind of keep people aware of what's going on. It's justice for Yanira. And Janira is spelled Y-A-N-I-R-A. So if you want to follow that Instagram, you will get a ton of information. And I'm just going to read one post. It says, we are asking everyone in

Washington and Oregon to please take initiative to conduct your own searches in your towns if you wish to help all Moses Lake walla walla messa tri-cities western stanfield echo and hermiston oregon areas if you live near or at these places please go ahead and search for us look into anywhere where there's bodies of waters wooded areas embankments cliffs etc if you see anything suspicious we ask that you call Moses lake police department and the phone number is 509-764-3887 or your local police department. We also ask that you be respectful, excuse me, we also ask that you be respectful to the family and if you do see anything, please refrain from taking any sort of photos or videos. We are not trying to create more pain.

Please search with, excuse me, please search with caution and safety. We thank you for doing this for us and hope to find Janira ASAP. Honestly, because I think what the police start doing was they were waiting for some like data to come through from you know I think like phone records and other like digital footprint kind of tracing things yeah and that's when they were going to be asking the public to come help in this like narrowed down search area right but there's really no reason not to you know start looking now seriously why not it's like eventually it will be narrowed down they they seem pretty confident that they're going to be able to at least slightly narrow down the search area. Right. But there's no harm in looking now. And like they said, immediately call authorities

if you find something. Definitely. And there's also a petition going around to speed up the extradition process. I guess Juan is trying to delay this process as much as possible and he's supposed to be extradited to Washington. But he was arrested in Oregon for driving with a suspended license. So that's how they ended up entertaining him. So if you want to sign that petition, you can just go ahead on over to the Instagram that I mentioned, and there's a link tree with a ton of different links for GoFundMe's and all the above. All the official stuff. Yes.

Let's hope that Yonira's family gets some kind of closure out of this, but I can't imagine what they're going through in those poor babies. I know. I just want to send them all like the biggest hugs. Yeah. It really hurts my heart. But yeah, we'll keep watching that. And if we see anything, you know, any updates or anything, we'll try to let you get

guys know as soon as possible. Yeah, we'll keep you posted. It seems like they're waiting on a few things to go through right now to get any updates right now. So hopefully those go through as quick as humanly possible. Keep her family in your thoughts, please. But coming right out of that, we're going to go into our part two of the disappearance of Dorothy Arnold's. This got so wild for me to research. I love that.

At one point, I was sitting on the couch and it was like late night. John was watching. I don't remember. Oh, John just got into MeraVeastown. Oh, okay. And it's like, it was like too depressing for me at first. Like I, there's so much depression and researching what we research that sometimes I TV shows just, I can't. And just like life. I've heard it's great and I do want to watch it. I'm just not in the mind frame right now to watch it. So I was like, you go, you watch it. I'll sit here in research while you watch it. That's always good when somebody's watching a show that you're not necessarily interested in because then you can because then you can vibe out to, to researching about like a crazy disappearance from the 1900.

Precisely. And I was, he was like late night. He's watching that and all of a sudden I just started like clapping. And I realized that I was like celebrating out loud. And he was like, what, what are you okay? And I was like, what's going on over there? The ship manifest.

And he was like, the ship manifest. Like he was like, what the fuck are you talking about? He's like, are you playing a game over there? And I told him the whole thing. And he was like, wow, okay. Because I'll get to it in part two. here where this ship manifest comes up. Okay.

But I spent like a good hour and a half searching through ship manifest records on Ancestry.com to find this one piece of like, I don't know if it's really like the most important information, but it felt very important to me at the time. And I was glad I found it. There's no small parts. There isn't. Sometimes. And sometimes you just got to got to get that.

Yeah. But this is when I come to it, you're going to see that I did find that a lot of sources are not giving you correct information about this case. Oh, shit. And it's little details, but it's stuff that's like, huh. That's a weird thing to not have the right information about. It's also so irritating when, like, you've definitely found, like, a very reputable source with correct information.

And then you find a couple other, like, pretty reputable sources, and they have misinformation. Yeah. And it's easy to happen because it's, like, you can see when a bunch of sources have one piece of information, it's very easy to just consider that fact. That's it. And most of the time you're pretty safe doing that. But once you can get into like these like official documents and stuff, that's where you find the stuff that you're like, there it is. So this is why I love researching old cases and like old just any like historical thing like this.

Because it's just the rabbit holes you can go down and like finding those little bits of like old document are just like it's so satisfying to me. I love it. You know, this is this is what I get excited about. guys. So when we left off in part two or in part one, we were talking about how George Griscombe junior there, he had come to New York from Italy, he had put out a bunch of ads, kind of trying to like lure her out of hiding, you know, nothing was happening. The family ended up getting two different ransom notes from like two different people who claimed to be the same like violent organization in two different parts of the country saying they had her.

weird. But they clearly did not. Yeah, no. And, you know, people were writing saying that they saw her, that they talked to her. They were getting letters that said, I'm safe, signed Dorothy and all that. So shitty. People have truly always been shitheads. Yeah. But also the police commissioner in February of 1911 had said that now seems the only reasonable way of looking at the case, meaning he was really just saying she's gone. Yeah. And he said, the girl now has been missing for 75 days and in all that time, not a single clue has been found that was worth the name. I disagree. We have no evidence that a crime has been committed and the case is now one of the missing, one of a missing person and nothing more. And that's what he was ending on. Okay.

But soon, not only were people saying they saw her or saying someone they knew saw her or was living with her or was dating with her, you know, what have you. Right. Now people were actually claiming to be her. What? They wanted that money. So they just started pretending they were actually the missing woman and trying to pass off, which is like, whoa. That's a, that's a real con you're pulling there. Yeah. They actually ended up dragging the bodies of water around Central Park for her body in the springtime, even though when she went missing, the reservoir next to Central Park was actually frozen solid.

Oh. So it really, her dad, Frances Arnold, was really convinced that she had been abducted, murdered, and like thrown in that reservoir. Okay. But it actually really couldn't have been so because on that day, it was frozen solid. Right. She wouldn't. They would have seen it.

And let somebody like cut a hole and like slipped her in there. Yeah. And it's like you would have seen that. Extensive. Yeah. And you just, it would have been a lot. But when it melted, they wanted to please her family who insisted that they look in the water. Yeah.

Nothing was found. Not her body. Nothing that belonged to her either. Wow. Getting books chosen for you delivered to your door each month is a, a thing now. It actually just happened to us. Elena got a book from page one books. Yeah, I did.

And it's called The Murder of the Century by Paul Collins. It's one that I've been meaning to pick up myself actually. Oh, really? When it came in that pretty little box, I was like, oh! And it's about a crime from the 1800s. Wow, it's like they know you or something. It's like they know me. Spoiler alert, they do.

Yeah, and it came a little bookmark and stuff. I was so excited. Yeah, I also got one sent to me. It's called True Crime Story. what happens to all the girls who go missing? And it's apparently like an international bestseller, so I'm stoked to read it. Oh, no big deal. I know, right? And the case is very interesting. I'm not going to say too much because I'm going to dive into it for an episode, which is the coolest thing about page one books, because they're going to send us all these books that we specifically asked for true crime books.

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Before he had any planned interviews, because he did have some planned interviews that he gave, he was actually literally accosted on board the ship home from Italy to New York. Now, this is where the ship manifest comes in. Now, reporters actually came onto the ship at one of the ports, and they asked him questions out of the blue, like very unexpected. He didn't have time to prepare. And they said, you know, they were asking, whether Dorothy had been in Italy with him or not.

He adamantly denied that she'd ever been there with him. And his parents were there too on board because he was in Italy with his parents. And they were adamant they had not seen her at all either. Then according to a Boston Globe article, the reporter on board said there was another name in their party that was not there. This was a Mrs. E.F. Glenn. And the reporter said she was not present and they could never reach her. Huh. And she wouldn't come out. Because she's in hiding and really she's Dorothy.

Isn't that strange? So when I read that, I only read this in one Boston Globe article and it was the reporter that talked to him and was like, yeah, she wouldn't come out and it was weird. But she was listed in their party on the manifest. So she was on the boat somewhere. Yeah. She was on the manifest in their party, like was riding with them. Right. So she had to have been there.

And so I searched through the fucking records because I was like, I'm, I'm going to find this because maybe this Boston Globe reporter, because by the way, lots of these people made up shit back then. So there's all kinds of conflicting information in newspapers. I was like, maybe they're wrong. So I got to find this out. Well, I found the fucking manifest for the Berlin, the ship that they were on, on that day, which was really cool to find the ship that they were on that day.

That is cool. I was like, whoa, this is cool. So it lists the Griscombs, who Jr., by the way, was listed as being 30 years old. Oh, so not 42? Not 42. And Mr. Griscombe, the father, was listed as 56, and Mrs. Griscombe was listed as 50. So that would make sense that he was 30. So this whole tale that I initially found where they say he was 42 and his parents were elderly,

nope. He was only about five years older than Dorothy, which makes more sense for why her father only lists his reason for not liking him for his daughter as the fact that he lived a life of leisure. Right. That makes so much more sense now. Just to note that so many sources have this wrong, if the ship manifests is to be believed, which it makes sense.

Yeah. It makes so much more sense. And honestly, again, this is why I fucking love Ocases. I know. When you find that kind of shit, it's like a treasure trove. I just love like the aha moment. But that was wild to me. And also, I don't believe he was even an engineer.

I think that's a wrong piece of information that's floating around. Why? The way the father talks about him is always calling him a man of leisure, a man of too much time, a man who doesn't, like, basically a man who doesn't work and just, because his family was extraordinarily wealthy as well. Oh. So this, this family. So wouldn't this have been like a really good pairing? Well, that's the thing. It's like, on paper, this makes sense. And apparently, you know, his family was very wealthy. He was still living with them at 30, but like, whatever. And he was just kind of living off of them and just like,

like I said, he was a gentleman of leisure. Yeah. But it made. It makes more sense that the only reason they would not like this match, he never mentions the age or anything like that. Huh. He always says he doesn't do anything and that's what pisses him off. And it makes so much more sense now. Yeah, because he's not 42. Because he's a worker.

Like Francis is a worker. So he wants his daughter to be with a man who's a hard worker and is going to provide, not a man who's living off his family money. It makes a lot more sense. It makes so much more sense. And I'm like, oh, shit. But either way, this mysterious E.F. Glenn woman, is on the manifest in their party.

Okay. So this article was correct. She is right there written down. She is listed as a 54-year-old woman. Oh. But still weird that they couldn't find her and I want to know who she is. Just because I'm like, who are you? And why wouldn't you come out?

Right. And why couldn't they ever talk to you again? Because when I first found it, I was like, oh, my God, she's going to be listed as 25 and I'm going to lose my gut. What if it was just like an aunt or something? It probably was. Yeah. But I'm like, why didn't you come out? maybe she's just weird and they never mentioned that she was there with them in

Italy that is weird like who's this maybe she's not 54 and maybe it was dorothy dressed up like a 54 year old woman she just claimed she was 54 but then at the same time it like why was he doing all this press yeah if she was I don't know yeah fucking weird because also she looked 25 she didn't look 54 so I feel like somebody would be like you are not and also at that point her face was everywhere in her description so but it's all the more reason why she couldn't come out Yeah. I don't know. I have no idea. I just don't know. I just thought it was weird. I was like, who is E.F. Glenn? It was fun to find the name on the manifest. That is cool. There you are. But the Raleigh News and Observer did a piece on this whole thing. Like the whole like him coming back to New York, him like putting out the ads, all this. And Junior actually talked to a reporter from there and he expressed his love for Dorothy and said, quote, I'm deeply in love with the young lady and hope to wed her if she is. alive. He gave the interview the day after he arrived in New York, and he had his father with

him at the time. His father was who he credited for actually pushing him to declare his love for Dorothy. He said he wanted to, but was hesitant, and his father encouraged him because maybe it would help her come back if she had left willingly. True. But later, his father was like, no, I never would have done that. I never would have told him to declare that. That's like inappropriate, because this was like very inappropriate for him to say like I'm going to wed her when she comes back. It's like, ooh, no, you got to talk to the dad first back then. Like this was a very, this was a very like taboo thing that he did. Like this was to declare your intentions to wed her without speaking to her family first. You need a blessing. That's a no-no, buddy. So it sounded like he

was trying to get the heat off himself and was like, my dad told me to do it. And it's like real nice. But he further said to him, the reporters that day, Jr. did. I might add an expression of hope that she is alive and safe and that she will consent to marry me. And he said he wanted to meet with Dorothy's mother in particular in Atlantic City. And he said they had plans to. Okay. So that he could discuss this with her. And he wanted to tell her everything he intended with Dorothy from the beginning.

Okay. And he's telling the report of this. He said, quote, I shall conceal nothing from her concerning. my acquaintance with Miss Dorothy. Now, his father was also very concerned that anyone would think that their family's willingness to bless a marriage between their son and Dorothy or their willingness to aid in finding her was for personal gain. The parents were very, like, the father was like, I don't want anyone thinking.

Yeah. That I'm just trying to mooch off of this family. Like, I got my own stuff. Well, that's a thing. So, like, no one, I'm just trying to help. He has his own money. So Papa Griscombe stated to reporters, quote, I hope to be able to impress the public with the fact that myself and my wife are not in any way seeking an alliance with the family of Miss Arnold for any personal reason.

He was like, leave me the fuck alone. Now, this all sounds fine, but like I said, oh man, Papa Arnold did not like any of this interview. He was so fucking annoyed that Junior declared his intentions to marry his daughter. This was a big no-no. And when the intended is missing, that's even worse. and it made him look even more unfit to marry into that family. Oh, shit. So you were supposed to like talk to the father first, declare your intention, not the other way around.

Right. Not declare your intention to the entire world and then talk to the father. Right. So her father, Francis Arnold, was quoted later as saying about this interview, said, quote, it is nonsense. This man is pestered to death and he is likely to make any kind of statement. His words are likely to be perverted too. The girl is lost and I'm convinced that Griscombe does not.

not know where she is. So he's like, I know, I don't think she has any, he has any idea where she is or, like, did anything, but he's gross and I don't want him talking about it. I don't blame him because this poor man is, like, probably trying to come to terms with the fact that his daughter may have been murdered because that was his belief that she was murdered. That was his belief until the end. So he's probably like trying to figure out how to deal with the loss of his daughter and except the fact that she was murdered. Yeah. And he still has no idea where she is. And this guy is like, well, I want to marry her. He's probably just like to marry her. And it's like, well, she's not even around. We don't even know if she's alive. Right. Like I would be, I think I would be angry if somebody was

talking about my missing daughter and was like, I plan to marry her. And it's like, well, maybe can we find her? Like, that's cute. You should have said that before she went missing. Well, and also, it's just the time. The time there were protocols. Yeah. There were like, and especially in this kind of society, in this high society. I like the whole idea of like going to whoever you're going to marry and making sure their family school with it. Well, just being like, hey, like I plan to do this. Like, when Drew asked me to marry him. I love it. I said he had to talk to my dad and my grandpa. I love that. Yeah. And John came to talk to both my parents and you. That's true. I got all of your permission. I was so fucking stoked. Which is so adorable. It was the cutest. I think I was like,

what was I like, 13? 14. It's just like, uh, it's a, it's, I don't think it's by any means required, but it's like a nice gesture, I guess. I don't think it's required, but I think it's respectful. I think it's, um, I wouldn't even, I, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I wouldn't even, I, it. I wouldn't even, just in my personal opinion. Yeah. One, I think it's nice. I just think it's like a nice gesture because it's, to me, the way John was doing it was like, hey, I just want you guys to like be in on this, like this exciting thing.

It wasn't so much being like, can I have your daughter? Right. Like it was more like, hey, I just want to let you guys know, like this is what I plan to do. Like, you want to be in on it kind of thing. That's what I mean. I like, respectful. And then it's like, but it's like I don't think it's like it was back then where it was literally like I have to ask permission to like to like have your daughter.

Yeah. No, that's like weird and gross because we're not property. Yeah. And I think it's also just anybody. It can be anybody. Like it can be anybody that you're intended loves and respects. Like you can go to them and be like, hey, you want to be in on this one? Yeah, exactly.

I think that's like a cool way to look at it. That's what I think. But back then, it was not a just a cool way to look at it. You literally needed permission. It was like you need to have a formal thing. Well, and like I feel like, then a daughter literally was a possession, which is for sure. Fucking weird.

Absolutely. Like most of these, this was all just little pieces of chess in the game of the society games. But yeah, so he was not happy. But he said he didn't think he knew where she was. He was just annoyed at the whole thing. I'm sure he was like, okay, just like shut up. Yeah. In another article, they said that Francis Arnold would classify Jr.

as, quote, a gentleman of leisure and that he, quote, does not approve of that class of man when a son-in-law is in question. And now that makes more sense. It makes more sense because he is saying nothing about the age. Right. And it's all about he doesn't do shit. Exactly. So it's all coming together now. Part two. We're bringing it all together. Part two. Be more careful about using plastic in everyday life, but it is easy to overlook the plastic from synthetic materials in our closets. Everlane has made it 90% of the way to having no new plastics in their entire apparel, footwear, and packaging supply chain.

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So he didn't even believe that he said. He was like, no, I think that reporter's making it up. Maybe he didn't. And he said, if he did, I think he did personally. You think so? I think that John was kind of being like a dick about it. And was like, I don't think he said that because then he followed it with if he did, it is the height of indiscretion and almost of impudence.

He then followed it with, can you imagine a man so foolish as to give out a statement like that to the newspaper without consulting the family? So I think it was him being like, oh, no way did he say that? Like, because he'd have to be a fucking idiot to say that. And it's him being like, you're a fucking idiot. You're not marrying into my family. Damn. Yeah.

This is so like Romeo and Juliet. It's so intense. Now, he added that he didn't Eve ever believe Jr. was a serious fiancé. for her sister, and he said, for his sister, and he said after seeing letters between the two, it appeared she was not as enamored with him as he wanted everyone to believe. He said there were other men she was more friendly with, and then he followed it with like, he didn't even live in New York. Like it was like, long distance is impossible. Like nail in the coffin. He didn't live in New York, guys. It's not happening. Now, this was conflicting with what friends said later.

Some of her girlfriend said she did speak about junior and her intention to someday marry him a lot. Okay. Neighbors of his parents, so his parents had a vacation home in Maine, and she would go there sometimes to spend time with him. Neighbors at that vacation home said they saw them together and they could tell their affection for each other. She also sold a bunch of jewelry just to go hang out with him. So there's a lot of different points of view here. And what it seems is the family, the Arnold family, it's just trying to downplay it. to save their face.

But in reality, it seems to me like these two were very much in love. Yeah. Now, he said, John said that he and his father and his mother were not going to be going to Philadelphia or Atlantic City to meet with him like he was saying to reporters, like, I'm going to meet with the mother. And he was like, we have no plans to do that. Like, that's a lie. So the Boston Globe, which every time I see the Boston Globe, I'm like, hell yeah,

ran an article that was called to Philadelphia in an automobile. And another connection to Philadelphia was made here. So in this article, it is stated that in February, John Arnold, that same brother, and Keith, the lawyer, the one, John Keith is the lawyer who they called, like, the day after she was gone missing and he was the one doing the investigation. Yeah. So the two of them, remember, he's a family friend, too. They both met with the chief of the Philadelphia Detective Bureau. His name was Captain Soder. They talked to him and said they had some information.

The brother and the attorney had some information that led them to believe that Dorothy was actually in Philadelphia and still alive. Oh, okay. This information was apparently supplied to them by an old man who was not named in the article, and I couldn't find his name anywhere. The old man actually lived near the Arnold's in New York, but did work for hotels in Philly. He said on that day in December that she went missing. He said he swore he saw Dorothy between 4 and 4.30 p.m. on Park Avenue near 78th Street, right around the corner from their house. He said, he saw her and described exactly what she was wearing to the letter, and said he watched her as she walked down the curb holding two packages. He said she was quickly stopped out of nowhere by an automobile pulling up to the curb.

A woman in the back of the automobile spoke to Dorothy through the window, and after her, quick conversation, which he couldn't hear the subject of, Dorothy got into the automobile, seemingly of her own free will, and the car drove off. Huh. Now, what is interesting about this is that the woman in the car was being driven by a driver. This driver was a man that this old man witness knew in Philly. Oh. So that's why he said that's why he even took note of this in the first place, because he may not

have ever noticed this exchange happened, because why would he? picturing this in my head is so spooky isn't it but he knew this driver so well in fact that they tipped their hats to each other before this whole thing took place so he was sure that this woman was a philly woman and that this was dorothy getting into the back of the car with her because remember he knows the driver so he's like i could even get in touch with him so did they ever did they get in touch with him well the old man witness said i'll be i'll try to locate this driver in philly but he said i have to be paid for my time to do this. Now, everybody who got involved in this case wanted to be paid something. Well, because those families were just fine. Exactly. The captain, Captain Soder, they said he was not super

convinced about the story, but said he would leave no stone unturned looking for her in Philly at all the hotels, the rooming houses, everywhere. Now, so that's going on. The family is denying that this ever happened. But Captain Soder is like it happened. Well, how would they know? Many times during this, the family denies something happens and other people are like, no, it happened. Well, and it's just like how do you, like you don't know what happened. So how do you know what didn't happen? Exactly. So then that same Philly detective captain said he got a call the next day from someone who attended Bryn Mawr with Dorothy. Right. This person said they'd seen her at North 18th Street and Mount Vernon in Philly. So now we have some real Philly sightings here. Right. It's sad because one of the last lines in this article was probably a regrettable one for the reporter who wrote it. It said, quote, the next 24 hours it is believed will bring forth some tangible fact that will lead to a solution of the mystery that is baffled police and an army of private detectives for 52 days. Woof. Spoiler alert.

It didn't. No. Now, so that happened. They weren't able to find anything to confirm that, but this person claimed they saw her in Philadelphia. Okay. So now, same month in February, it became known that Dorothy Arnold, this just came out because things are now coming out about all of her movies. it became known that Dorothy Arnold had taken a secret photograph with George Griscom, Jr., one that he had failed to mention initially. So the Boston Globe reported that shortly before Griscom

sailed away to Italy, and before Dorothy went missing, the two of them made an appointment together at William P.S. Earl Photography in the city. They sat together for a professional photo, and then apparently Dorothy had sent a copy of that photo to Griscombe while he was in Italy. Also, I love that you had to like make an appointment to take a selfie. Isn't that adorable? That's iconic. I love that. So now this is fueling the elopement or runaway rumors. Yeah. People believe she had eloped or left to start a new life away from this whole society business. But who did she elope with? Well, that's what people don't understand. They're like, was it another man? Was she planning to elope with George Griscombe Jr? and something happened?

So people were spotting her everywhere. And most of them were all. obviously hoaxes, but the idea that she possibly eloped with, again, either Griscom or some mystery man was further cemented with the, because even more shadiness came out of this, because Edward Hart, who was the clerk of the Marriage License Bureau, stated to investigators in February that back at Thanksgiving of 1910, before she went missing. Oh, like a month before. A month before. Pinkerton detectives had come in and done.

a thorough search of the marriage license records to see if Dorothy had filed for one. A month before she went missing? Yes. So they were searching even before she went missing to see if she was trying to elope, which means they were worried she was going to elope even before this. So this family, who is claiming they, no way could she have done that, they were worried about it before she even went missing. Okay. So worried about it that they had sent Pinkerton to take. to go search. Girl, she left on her own volition.

That's what I'm saying. She left on her own volition. You can't tell me otherwise. So then the family denied that. Of course they did. And Edward, of course. But Edward Hart came out and in the New York Times was like,

nope, they definitely remember. The article said he stated that, quote, the search was so thorough that it would have been impossible for any man of intelligence to have forgotten that incident.

Wow. He was like, fuck you. So much shade. disrupted my whole day. Yeah, I remember. He said it took like a week because he was like, there's so many marriage, of course. And it's not like they're like digital at that point.

And he said, they're not. And when they came in, he said he asked them dates to search to narrow it down. And they said they were searching any time within that year for a marriage license. But they said particularly very recently. Okay. So they thought that she could have been married any time that previous year. But they were like, let's look really recently. but like actually in the past year.

So the family was worried that for the past year she could have been married. Dude. He also said they did the same search in December for her as well and turned nothing up. So they did it twice. And that was again before she went missing. No, this was after. After. But they did it twice.

So they were really worried that she eloped. Yeah. Then, well, excuse me. No. You was excuse me. No. No. I will not. I meant to say like, no worries.

But like, I was just like, no. I will not excuse you. You were like, well, all right. So if they were looking for marriage licenses before, because they thought that she had eloped, had she gone missing at another time? She did not go missing, but as we're going to talk about, she went to Washington. She would visit friends from Brinmar a lot. Yeah, quote-unquote anyways.

And it kind of came out that a couple of those were probably... To see George. Yeah. So I think when she would do that, they were worried that she had eloped during those times. So it looks like they were. trying to keep up on that. She dipped because she wanted to be away from them. Exactly. Yeah. And I looked up as many records as I could possibly look out. I was like going hard onto this until like 2.30 a.m. I can't. And I could not find any kind of record that she did a lope, but she could have,

who knows? I don't know. I couldn't find, I couldn't look through every record of every state. She could have gone to another state. Well, the other thing is she's like a smart gal. Maybe she just ran away with a man's and like didn't marry him, but like they considered them. solves married. Well, then it was reported, it was also reported that after they went forward with the search in Philadelphia to try to see if maybe that story of that old guy was panning out, a week later, the district attorney, Charles S. Witness Whitman, told Francis Arnold that he was like, you know what, I'm offering my complete services to you to find Dorothy. And he said, I'll give your family full access to anything you need to find her. Like, you just wanted to let them know like we're here for you we're going to help you apparently francis arnold responded please don't

we're not looking for dorothy any longer he even thought he had misunderstood he was like maybe he's misunderstanding what i'm offering him so he repeated the author he was like you know like i meant i'm telling you that like we'll just offer you like anything you need and he was like nope we're not looking for her anymore and the district attorney was asked about this later and he said said, it is true that I offered Mr. Arnold a week ago last Saturday all the facilities of my office to assist him in locating his missing daughter. He said, I particularly assured him that even that if there was the slightest suspicion that any crime had been committed, I was ready to trail the thing to the bitter end, regardless of time and expense. I talked to Mr. Arnold on the phone and never thought but that I would receive the thanks of a father for the offer to assist him. Instead, he exclaimed to me, over the wire, please don't.

Please don't. We are not looking for Dorothy anymore now. And then he said he just hung up. I'm sorry, that's bizarre. What the fuck is that about? Like, why did you stop looking for her unless you know something? This, I don't know what this family is about. For me, that's weird.

And also that's more than like we've just accepted that she's dead. Because again, that's what he believed. But I just feel like if there were like a. chance to even solidify that information. Yeah. He would have wanted to use the resources available. So to me, that says, I know what happened. I know what happened. And I think, like concrete, I know what happened. The more I go into this, the more I'm like, I think you know that she packed up and left and you, you don't know how to spin this. Do you think that maybe she wrote to them at some point or sent word to them that she was okay? I do wonder. I wonder if they have some kind of

concrete evidence that said she she just didn't want to be around anymore but and it would have been incredibly embarrassing for the family that would have been on the legacy oh yeah even though like i'm sure they consider the sustain on the legacy anyways but that would have been worse that you're that she left out of the religion woman that was supposed to be marrying an upstanding gentleman and carrying on the family name the way that you said gentleman like okay cal hawkling somebody asked about my love for cal Hockley, I will not tell you. It just is what it is.

No, I just, honestly, I just, like, when I watched Titanic for the first time, I loved Leo, obviously. I was a Leonardo DiCaprio girl. But, like, a Leonardo DiCaprio girl in the right that it's literally written inside of her childhood closet, which then became my closet. In glitter paint. Yeah. No, I was like a full-blown.

I loved Leo when I was here. So, like, don't get me wrong. Romeo, Juliet. For sure. But, like, hi, Kyle. Like, I don't know. I don't know. He's a dick. Like, I don't want that. But like, I kind of get it a little bit. Okay. That's all I'm going to say. All righty. All righty. Billy Zane, you know?

Billy Zane. Yeah, I was going to say, let's Billy Zane and not Calhawkely. But like Billy Zane as Calhawkely, that's the only thing. So Billy Zane in old dress. Yeah. Okay. There you go. All right. I like that. Yeah, because when he gets in the lifeboat, like, pretend. I'm like, he like holds a kid to get a kid to end of life, but that's where I jump off. Yeah, we draw a lot there. That's where I jump off. Oh, and doesn't, I have not watched Titanic in literally, I think a decade. I can't. I can't. But doesn't he like slap rose too? Yeah. Yeah. So I think so if I, yeah. So I'm like, I don't, I don't want like his thing. No, no. He just like, you like what he looks like. He looks all right. And in the beginning, I think you like his like attitude. A little swagger there. That's all. But then I jump off real quick.

Yeah. Oh, bad choice of words. I know. I did. You know what. I'm going to get out of this really quick. Oh, my God, dude, the first time I watched the Titanic, the amount of boogers that came out of my face. I don't know if I could watch it now. It might like really bum me because it's horrible. In my head, all I can see is that old couple hugging on the bed in steerage. I just can't. That's the thing.

Like watching it as a child, I was like, oh, so scary. But now I'm like, oh, being away from Drew forever? Yeah. No. Like I can. That's what makes me cry. Yeah. That's the thing.

So yeah, maybe that's why I haven't watched it in forever. Even more booggers and come on my face. It's just like, it's just a looks thing with Calhawkley in the beginning. All right. That's really all it is. And the swagger. And the swagger. Swagger.

But we know one on the corner has swagger like Kyle Hawkeley? There you go. There you go. I crack myself. Oh, man. I also love the name Cal. So I like that name. It's a cute name.

Yeah. Anyway. Anyway, we've digressed. That's kind of fun though. That's kind of fun though. They miss a digression every once in a while because we haven't done it in a while. Yeah. So there's one.

There you go. But yeah. So we're back. I have like nine words to say to you. Hardy steak and potatoes with balsamic cranberry pan sauce. Bring it. Get in my belly again. I got this meal from HelloFresh.

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That's babble.com slash morbid for up to 60% off your subscription. Babel, Language for Life. So by March, the Burlington Free Press actually had a headline that said, Arnold's are entire ignorance. So that was cool. And also not grammatically correct. Wait, what? Arnold's are in entire ignorance. Oh, so like they don't, they don't be no one. But it's like, that doesn't sound right. That does not tumble out of my mouth and feel good. No, because I was like, sorry, what you said? Yeah, it really doesn't. Now, they spoke with a very close family friend. whose name was Clarence Ashley.

And he told the paper that any rumors that the Arnold's knew where Dorothy was or knew she may be a runaway were false. Because at this point, since you and I were just talking about it, so was the rest of the people. They were like, ah, this is seeming weird. And I think this family knows what happened. Of course. They've been weird from the jump. Exactly.

So he said, when asked if they had any theories about where she was, he stated, quote, they are convinced she is dead. They have held various theories, but that is the end of their reasoning. Here's what that says to me. That's in March. Dead to them. Exactly. Dead to them.

They consider her dead. Nailed it. Nailed it. Allie Oop. This is when the reporter pointed out that several other reporters were really concerned after speaking with the family about this situation because they all believed that they were not behaving as a, quote, family and mourning. Yeah.

And lots of reporters were like, They're weird about it. Right. And like, it's weird that they're just stating she's dead, but saying they don't know anything. Right. And Clarence Ashley's response to that was, quote, that may appear so to the public. It is one thing to realize death when the corpse is seen and another when the real end is in doubt. Yeah.

Which he is not wrong. That is absolutely correct. Now, he stated that suicide was considered, but no means could be found because she didn't have a revolver, he said. Okay. And she had not come in possession of poison that they could find records. heard of. They searched the Bronx woods and found nothing. They said that she actually liked to go into the Bronx woods with a book often and would sit for hours and just read in the woods. Oh, cool. She seemed cool. Imagine doing that. Like, I wish you could do that now. I know. She just seemed

cool. She did. Like, good for her that you just like read in the woods. She's reading at leisure. So that's the other thing about like them pointing out that she bought chocolates and a novel and being, and it's so funny because I found several articles that were like, these are womanly things that they buy when they go on a long trip. And I was like, uh, okay. I don't know if we can like totally throw a blanket on that. You know, it's funny. I was just in Burlington and I bought so much chocolate.

Exactly. So much. And you were going on a trip. And a lot of books. There you go. So maybe they were right about you. Maybe. But when it comes to Dorothy, she read all the time.

Yeah. Like she was always picking up novels and shit. And she just wanted some fucking chocolate. I feel like. Hell yeah. Who knows? Truffles are delicious. Now, he said he believed that she was abducted.

and killed. He stated this. Who does? The Clarence Ashley there, the family friend, who was also the dean of one of the colleges in the area. Okay. And like has connections to this family, so that makes sense. Apparently he had known Dorothy since she was little. He had a daughter that they were friends. Like, it was a very close connection here. He also went really detailed with this like theory he had of her being abducted and killed, which is like a little strange to me. Yeah. He said, quote, I am inclined to believe that the girl was abducted and killed by an overdose of chloroform or held and killed later. I have a feeling that sometime later, one of the lonely Long Island woods will give up the body of Dorothy

Arnold's. It could lie there undiscovered and an adequate search has been impossible. Oh. What, sir? Why do you, why did you just bring chloroform into the equation? An overdose of chloroform? That was very fucking specific. Yeah.

Like what? And of course, reporters were like, yeah, but remember she would have had to have been abducted in like broad daylight on Fifth Avenue or near it at least. And he said, quote, we New Yorkers never notice anything much. And it would have been very easy for three or four persons to hustle a girl into a waiting automobile or carriage, especially if it were done under the guise of friendly joking. The hand over the mouth, the little struggle would be taken only as part of a friendly prank. If somebody tried to chloroform me as a joke, I can assure you. you that I wouldn't be like, oh, M.G. Friendly little prong. Also, Clarence, who are your friends? Like, the hand over the mouth, the friendly struggle, the throwing into a carriage. I'm like,

who the fuck are you hanging out with? Do you know what this is giving me, though? Gilmore Girls. It's giving me Logan and his pals. It literally is. It's so funny because someone got so mad that we mentioned Gilmore Girls so much, but it is. It's very life and death brigade. It is. It's very much. This whole thing is very good. I could relate anything back to Gilmore Girls. Hell yeah. That's a specialty that you raised me with. Oh, hell yeah. It's a skill that I have honed over decades. Where you lead, I will continue. I will fall. Hell yeah. Any anywhere. That you tell me to this is. It's very life and death brigade. It's something they would do. Yeah. So I guess Clarence might be on to something. Maybe he was part. Maybe he was an omnia pirata.

with them. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. Go watch Gomore girls. You get it. So, yeah, he did say that the motive could have just been ransom, which makes sense, because it's a very...

Yeah, it could have been, but then, like, they didn't ever send ransom. Well, a lot of ransoms came, but they thought they were hoaxes. So maybe there was a real one in there. That slipped by. Or he said, maybe it was just possession of the girl herself, which I was like, whoa, Clarence. And then he said, he said, maybe it was just possession of the girl herself. That's bleak.

He went on to call her a very handsome woman. And it all got very strange. And I was like, I'm going to dip out of this article a bit. Okay. So that was weird. But also in March, reports surface that Dorothy's mother sent letters to the chief detectives in Oklahoma. Where the fuck does Oklahoma come into this whole thing? I'm saying this went everywhere.

So she sent letters to the chief of detectives in Oklahoma saying that she believed her daughter was an Oklahoma and was hiding out there. Okay. Yeah. So this was because there had been all this talk about this couple in Oklahoma that came out. Now, two detectives were in Oklahoma investigating this already, but it was all very hush-hush. Nobody was talking about it. Then immediately following all of this, an article in the dispatch Republican, a Kansas paper,

reported that friends of a man and his new wife in Muskegee, Muskegee, we're going to, we found it online. Muskogee. Muskogee. We got it, right? Muskogee. It's in Oklahoma, and I wanted to say it right. So Muskogee, Oklahoma, they were friends, so these are people that are friends of this man

and his new wife in Muskogee, Oklahoma. They were convinced that the wife, who was going by the name Virginia, they believe she was Dorothy. Okay. Tell me why. This gets crazy. Now, a reporter spoke to the couple and said that they wouldn't deny that she was Dorothy, but they also wouldn't say she wasn't.

Cannot confirm or deny. They wouldn't deny that she was and they wouldn't say she was, basically. I don't know why I said it that way. They wouldn't say she wasn't. They wouldn't say she was. Could not confirm nor deny. I said that really stupidly. And they said the man was very nervous, like sweating bullets during this interview.

Really? At one point, he said her maiden name was Arnold and then backtracked. Now, he was sweating. And at one point, according to the article was, wiping sweat from his forehead and then said, I wish this was all over. Oh, yeah. That makes me sad. Now, let me quickly bring up this newspaper article because this newspaper article where they talk about it shows you how like it's just a weird situation.

So I'm going to read just part of this. It says, at one point in the interview, the husband, while much confused, said about his wife's maiden name that it was Arnold. He immediately corrected himself, adding, or whatever her name was. Then to his wife, he said, what was your name before we were married? How long have you been married, y'all? And she said, never mind what my name was. She said, I am Mrs. DeLoch now. And a servant of the cuff that was near the couple during the several days before this,

said the young woman said to her, I'm Dorothy Arnold at one point. Now, initials on their trunk, that, like their luggage, add to the suspicion. When they first arrived, the name on one end of the trunk had been scratched away, but a capital letter A could be seen. What? Since then, the initials J.W.D have been crudely painted over the original letters. On the bottom of the trunk are the words New York City.

Okay, solved it. Isn't that wild? Yeah, that's, come on. Isn't that insane? I was like, it was blowing my mind. Friends said he was telling them that they were secretly married for 18 months, and she was saying less than a year. But the friends were like, no, it couldn't be more than three months that they've been married. Remember, this was March.

And she went missing in December. It literally lines up perfectly. Everyone said she arrived the first of February in Oklahoma. Dorothy was gone in December. The real reason friends contacted police was because one of the friends was watching a quote, picture show. That's what it said in the article, with this man, the husband. And he said that suddenly in the middle of the show, he turned to his friend and said, you don't think my wife is Dorothy Arnold, do you?

Friend, like what? Wait, you said, do you think this man knew who, like, she really was? I don't know. Or do you think that he was like, fuck now I'm caught up in this? Like, oh, shit. Friends also said they joked with her about how much she resembled Dorothy in the pictures in the paper, because she did. She looked just like her.

the picture. I don't have a picture, but just from them describing it, like the blue, gray eyes, the brown hair, same height, same weight, same everything. And she would randomly say, well, I am Dorothy Arnold. And they thought it was a joke. But apparently this woman, like we said, had the luggage from New York. She had tons of, she had fine clothing with her in fine jewels when she arrived. And they were apparently, like, they were quoted as being penniless because they didn't, but they, like, had really nice shit. But she wouldn't have anything, any money, because she didn't bring anything with her. Do you think that she would have wanted to be penniless? Because we did see that she did enjoy being like a woman's society to some degree.

But I don't know if it was like, or do you think it was all a facade and maybe they were not Pennyless? And that's the thing. But isn't that a weird one? And what's weird is there's several articles about this. They went hard at it. And then it was just let go. Just went away. Just let go. And I'm like, that might be Dorothy Arnold, guys. Like, what the fuck? That's really bizarre. Now, so weird.

Now, of course, we already talked briefly about the rumors that she had eloped or left on her own accord. But because of the time period, people started wondering if she had found herself pregnant. Okay. And had undergone a secret procedure that was possibly botched. Okay. Because this happened a lot. Now, are you ready for it to get weirder?

Yes. April 2004? Or 2014. I was like, probably not. Not 2014. 1914. Okay, a little different. A little different.

This is when headlines read, Port of Missing Women is found private hospital maternity home in Pittsburgh. Is raided by police when physician confesses crime. Says Dorothy Arnold died there. Famous mystery of missing heiress may be solved in coming investigation. The victims were cremated, bodies of Miss Arnold and others who did not. recover were burned. What? Now, yes, so Dr. C.C. Meredith and associates, like he had a few associates in this whole thing, were arrested for running in a legal, super janky abortion clinic in Pittsburgh,

where several women had died horrifically. It was called the House of Mystery, and several women went missing for real there. And it was like a hellish operation that they were running. One of the associates, Dr. Lutz, confessed that one of these women was Dorothy. Arnold. He confessed that physicians in the area acted as, quote, feeders, and they would send women to these unskilled fucks to basically experiment on them in the name of offering abortions. And when shit went awry, they would throw them in the furnace and cremate them. What the fuck? Now, according to one article, it says, quote, Lutz says he was told there was a certain party that came to me from New York and was traced as far as my office. It was Dorothy Arnold.

When asked about what had become of her, Meredith had said to have motioned to the skyward with both hands. Also, it said, quote, ashes in the basement of this facility and earth in a stonewalled pit was examined for traces of bone dust and quicklime, and they found it. Okay. Now, after this came out, of course, the family said it was ridiculous and untrue. Because they didn't want her to be associated with an abortion. No. That would have been. It's just getting more and more scandalous as far as they're concerned.

But then the family attorney, Keith, there, John Keith, said that he had been called and visited Pittsburgh two months after Dorothy went missing because it was reported to them that a woman in a sanitarium there was claiming to be Dorothy. Okay. Now, this janky clinic was in Pittsburgh as well. Keith went there to talk to her and she ended up not being Dorothy. But he did mention that he saw Dr. Meredith there, this guy. And he asked him about Dorothy. He was like, have you seen this woman? And he said he got very uncomfortable and very nervous about it, like noticeably.

So I feel like everybody is just so nervous. But they can't find any concrete shit. It's just people talking. So in part one, we briefly mentioned that Dorothy had gone on a trip to Washington at some point. And she had gone so far as having her mail forwarded the week she was there. And we were like, that's weird. That trip was in November 1910, only like a month before she went missing. And it was actually the day.

before Thanksgiving. And they'd, and she had spent Thanksgiving there in Washington. Now, if you remember, the Pinkerton detectives had also gone at that time to find out if she had eloped. Oh, shit. Yeah. So do you think that she didn't tell her family that she wasn't going to be there for Thanksgiving? They claimed that she was, that she, this was all, they, she told them about it. They let her go, that this was all permitted. Okay. But I don't know about any of this. Now, she was visiting her friend from Bryn Mare, and her name is Theodosia Bates, Which, Hamilton, anyone. Theodosia.

Dear Theodosia. Well, there, Theodosia remembers Dorothy complaining that she wasn't feeling well and told her she believed she could be getting her period soon. Could she have been pregnant? Maybe. Now, also on that visit, she was literally staying in bed and had a big Manila envelope delivered to the door at one point. And it was delivered on Thanksgiving when the mail is closed. Right. So she would have had to have somebody bring it to her.

Like she would have to have set that up. No one knows who, including Theodosia, she could not figure out who was bringing that mail. She was clearly upset after receiving this bulky envelope and ended up leaving on Friday when she was supposed to stay until Monday. And she said to Theodosia, quote, I always intended on leaving today. But that wasn't true. Weird. Which is weird. What do you think was in the envelope?

Well, so this lent itself to the rumors, of course, that she was possibly pregnant. Yes. And also the rumors that she had possibly. possibly ended her own life because of the constant rejection she might have been getting from these stories, because they thought that could have been a manuscript that came back to her. Okay. But you think it was that important to be delivered on Thanksgiving, though? Well, that's the thing. I don't know.

None of this thing. And who delivered it? Right. Who did she set up there to deliver that? Because it wasn't the regular mail. Right. It's so weird. Now, the suicide rumors came about, and her family even considered them a possibility at one point.

At first, everyone was pushing the... rumors off because aside from her writing troubles, she was seemingly a happy, healthy, and vibrant young woman. People who spoke to her that day that she went missing said she was sweet, happy, completely carefree, nothing out of the ordinary. But she was feeling a deep sting of rejection from not only publishing outlets, but her own family all the time. Right. Yeah. And likely some friends as well about the thing that she is most passionate about. She also was not allowed to get her own place to try to hone these skills and was being forbidden from seeing the man she supposedly loved.

So she had a lot going on. So some people speculated that maybe the pressures of society life were not something she wanted, but something she felt like she had to pretend to want. And that can really wear on someone after a while, mixed with the rejection, the love life issues. That's a lot. It is. Her family did consider the survival theory, but still clung to the idea later that she was abducted and killed. Okay.

Because they just, nobody could say that she seemed depressed. that she seemed off for when they spoke to her that day, they were like, I could, I, it would shock me if she was in the state of mind that she was about to end her life. Right. And why wouldn't we have found her if she didn't see that? Well, that's the other thing. Where is she? Right. That that's why that doesn't make sense to me. Now, April 1916 brought even darker and more strange leads because things went quiet for a while and then it popped right back into the headlines. A convicted felon in prison in Rhode Island suddenly confessed saying he had been. paid to help bury a girl in a cellar in West Point. And that girl was Dorothy Arnold. The prisoner's name was Edward Glenn Norris, and he was in for extortion. Okay. He was confessing because he recently found Jesus, so he wanted to clear his shit out.

He is so over the top. He is such a trip, and I think he was lying through his teeth. Okay. He said, a guy named Little Louis, a gangster named DePontz, and a rich young fellow who ladies loved, had joined him, had joined them in doing this deed for him. some cash. He told reporters that this chick named Flo or Dutchie. I mean, listen, remember the Bonnie Baker Blakely case with all the like Wiz kid fucking Duffy snuffing? It all makes sense. Flo or Dutchie told him little Louie had a job for him one day. Okay. So he goes through this whole

thing where Louis was like, you know what a bullet is for? And he was like, yeah, I know what a bullet is for, Louie? And he's like, you better put one in your neck if shit goes wrong. And he was like, of course, little louis i'll do that yes little louis then he says something that sounds to me like it's straight out of like a parody like a like a comedy he says quote to the reporter he says that sounds funny to you people but it's serious business with us crooks we're paid to kill and we'll get ourselves we'll get ourselves in the next sometime sometimes so it might as well be done by our own bullets as by other gangsters and bulls life is short for all of us i'm going to suddenly disappear after i leave this place sometimes some dark night when nobody is looking, they'll get me as a rat and a stool pigeon.

Sure. I mean, yeah. Like, all right. Yeah. All right, Glenn Morris, sir. So of this whole thing, he says it happened on the day Dorothy went missing. And he said himself and this random rich guy rode to New Rochelle went up to this fancy home. And he said it had a huge porch, columns, et cetera.

It was like this beautiful home. Sure. And a man with gray hair and a mustache answered the door and said, to call him Doc. Okay. He said they went into the home and saw a girl on the couch. She was unconscious, seeming to have been drugged. She was wearing exactly what Dorothy was wearing.

She had brown hair. And he said that they told him she was Dorothy Arnold's because he said, quote, I never go into such jobs until I know who I'm up against. All right. Fair. They brought her into the car and drove her to another home in New Jersey where she was placed on a couch, still out of it. and they left the rich guy with her and dock.

Now, they were told she was having surgery. The next day, little Louis told him she was dead, and part of their job was to go back and bury her. Okay. So he said they buried her in the cellar of the home, and they had to dig up the concrete and put more down to cover the hole. Police followed up on this because they had to. Of course.

And they, you know, the warden told them where. They went to a couple of homes, sellers. They found nothing. Okay. They dug up sellers. So that was just like weird. Bullshit, but weird. Yeah.

Now, one more time, April 8th, 1921, the case made headlines again. A detective from the Bureau of Missing Persons, Captain John Ayers, was speaking at a conference in New York. And during this speech, he said that the Bureau and the Arnold family know exactly what happened to Dorothy Arnold and have for a while. He wouldn't answer any questions about it, and that was it. That's not fair. The next day when reporters swarmed him to ask about it, he said he was misquoted and didn't know anything about it. What? What?

No. So Francis Arnold died in 1922, and in his will, he wrote, quote, I have made no provisions in this will for my beloved daughter, Dorothy H.C. Arnold, as I am satisfied that she is not alive. He maintained until the end that he believed she was kidnapped and murdered. Okay. Mary Arnold died December 29th, 1928, and believed Dorothy was alive somewhere until the end. Oh, okay. So the mom and dad did not agree. After everything, the family, the rest of the surviving family, and the family attorney, John Keith, believe she had killed herself and said so publicly. So all of them have a different view. So what's interesting to me is that the father was satisfied with that she was, the fact that she was dead.

It's really interesting to me that the mom didn't believe she was dead and thought she was alive. somewhere and had spoken to people in Oklahoma where that whole weird thing happened. Was actively investigating it. And for me, it's kind of like the mom has more of a bond just naturally with a child and like especially a daughter, I think. Yeah. So I think it's weird to me that like she was like, no, she's not dead. I feel like she knew.

I think she knew. Yeah. Like she knew in her heart of hearts that she was somewhere. And I think the dad was just happy to, not happy, but I think he was fine with just writing it off. Yeah. I think she was like, this is what I'm comfortable. leaving. And if she did leave, then she's as good as dead to me. Exactly. That's exactly what I think it was.

Yeah. I think it's so crazy, too, that if she did leave, she was bombarded all the time with, like, newspaper shit of her. And it still never came out. Everywhere. And she, nothing ever came out. It is interesting. I don't know. How did you hide? I feel like the strongest theory that you presented was definitely the Oklahoma couple. That's, that was wild to me. And just the fact that that woman was like, maybe I am Dorothy Armaged. Yeah. But then again, it's like how many people over the years have been like maybe I am. Yeah, exactly. So, but I don't know. Like the luggage and the time frame.

I also wonder that like botched operation or botched abortion unfortunately is a viable theory, especially at that time. Yeah, it is. So it's like that's scary. But I do think she, I think she dipped. Yeah. And she might have dipped with the wrong people and maybe she was dead. Maybe she was killed at some point.

Maybe something bad happened. But I think initially, I don't think it was an abduction. But then again, I say that. And I say that with such confidence. But then I'm like, nothing about that day says that she planned to dip. Yeah. But I think that was done with care. That's true.

But I don't know. Because if she planned to dip, obviously, she would be meticulous and making it seem like she wasn't going to dip. You would think she would have gotten rid of some of that communication with like Griscom and stuff. And like, I don't know, taking some of her, Julie. with her to pawn or something like that. Okay. How about this, though? Maybe she didn't get rid of the communication with Griscom because she knew that she was going off to marry another man.

So she kept that as like a red herring? Exactly. Yeah, that's absolutely a thing. I mean, damn, she's a smart little mastermind. But, hey, she might be. Recently bought anything. Then you probably notice that prices have gone up on everything, especially on the essentials like gas, groceries, utilities.

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Goodrx is not insurance, but can be used in place of insurance, Medicare, and Medicaid in 2021. Gooder X user saved 81% on retail prescription prices. And it would make sense that maybe she could absolutely have gone and lived off with another person. Yeah. Who knows? And she had already lived like a fancy life. And I think she probably knew that she could go back to it if she wanted to. Yeah.

So she tried out being penniless for a minute and still like to wear her clothes that she had in her trunk with her name scratched off. It is. The fact that you just. like don't know. You don't know. It's crazy. Where the fuck is she? But they do know, but they don't know. Somebody knows. A lot of people know. Well, and then that whole thing about the driver, too, is super weird.

And so they were never able to track down the driver? They were never able to like track that whole thing down or verify it. Weird. And it's like, what the fuck? And a lot of people wanted money out of this, so it's like you can't trust anyone. I know. All the motives are super dirty. And it's like, on every level, this is just corrupted on every level.

Just that, I mean, for me, I just think the Oklahoma one is the strongest. And just the fact that he was like, wasn't your last name Arnold? And she was like, never mind what my name was. This is what it is now. Yeah, like, and now I am this. Right. And it's like, maybe she just started a new identity. I don't think she wanted that name. Maybe not based on. And like, I do wonder if maybe part of her like getting rejected as a writer kind of thing, like she was like, she was thinking maybe she got rejected because of her name. Yeah. So maybe she was like, I'm just going to start a new. Yeah. And maybe there's a book written by Dorothy Arnold under a totally different alias. Wouldn't that be fucking wild?

That'd be insane. Oh, man. Damn. I don't know. I just, for some reason, this, I just, I don't think she was killed. I don't feel that way. I, that one never was the strongest. I'm me, to be honest. I'm not saying it's not possible. It's possible, of course. But it definitely, to me, I mean, none of the pieces out up for anything perfectly. No. But it just feels like she dipped. Yeah. I really think so. I'd love to know what the fuck happened. It's funny, though, because I think you kind of changed your opinion a little bit in part two,

because in the beginning you were like, no, I don't think she would have done that to her family. Yeah. Because I do think she cared about her family, but I think she was just done with them. That's the thing. Well, it's like the more you read about it, because in the beginning, and it's like when you read like outs, you know, like the periphery sources. Yep. It does feel like she.

And I do believe that she had some kind of like sense of duty to her family to like try to maintain that society girl image. But I think the more I read about her and the more things that came out in like little snippets here and there, I was like, I don't know. I think she wanted to. I think some part of her really wanted to please them and really wanted to be that girl that they wanted her to be. Yeah. But I just don't think she wanted to be that. Hey, I mean, even Lorlai Gilmore didn't tell anybody she was going to Starz Hollow. I love that. Yeah, yeah. She dipped. She didn't want to be that girl. girl. She didn't. That they wanted her to be. Literally. Yeah. It's exactly that. It is. But, you know, all

the police will say is that they said the case was solved and it's no longer a missing person case. And that's the other thing that's like if she was killed and they were like, yeah, she was killed. It would be labeled a homicide. Exactly. Yeah. So I think they might have found her and I think the family was like, you better not fucking say that you found her because we don't need people knowing that our family doesn't want to be our family. Or they found some kind of evidence to know for sure that she dipped. Right. And not necessarily like found her, but like just something that said this is exactly what happened. Even if she like, they have a letter or something from her that's like, this is what I did. See, the other thing that makes me feel like they, they found her is that he made it a point to be like, I am not leaving

anything in my will to her because I think she's dead. Yeah. Like he made it a point. That's a dead to me kind of thing. Right. It's absolutely could be it. Yeah, it's interesting. But what about the mother's will? She also put a provision in there that nothing is left to her. Huh. So that's... And that's interesting that the mother wouldn't leave anything to her, even though she believed she was alive somewhere. I know. Because I mean, I don't have children, obviously, but if I did and one went missing and I didn't have any concrete evidence that they were killed, I would leave them something. Yeah. Or at least some kind of provision that says, like, if she's found, she gets ADC and D. Yeah. Yeah. He or shit.

I don't know. But I did find one last little, like, just this has no bearing on the case whatsoever. But I just found this interesting piece of information while I was searching for that, like, through that shit manifest and shit. Yeah. I was just trying to like find shit out about George Griscom because I was like, can I find any, like, shady thing? I couldn't.

There's really no shady things about him that I could find. But I did find his father's death certificate. And his dad died at age 75 by a cerebral hemorrhage. in Rhode Island, which I was like, oh, rough. But his mother's name, so Junior's grandmother's name is Mercy Brown. Oh, shit. And he died in Rhode Island. Mercy Brown, if you guys remember, we did that, like, New England vampire episode.

Yeah. She's like, you know, one of those cases where they thought she was a vampire, so they, like, removed organs after she died. She died at, like, 19. She didn't have kids that I could find any record of. But it was just a really strange, when I saw that name, I know it's like Mercy was a very, like, I think that was like a pretty common name back then. And Brown is like a super common last name.

But to see Mercy Brown from Rhode Island, I was like, whoa, that's weird. It was just a weird connection. I was like, whoa. And I had to quickly look back just to make sure that she was 19 and she didn't have kids. Because I was like, that would be wild. That would have been insane of those two cases. I would have exploded. I think everyone would have.

Yeah. I would have just gone through the actual wall. But I'm telling you, nothing is more fun than looking through old records for me. Honestly. You can't stop. I came up with some good shit, dude. And that is the case that unfortunately we don't have real answers for. We pretty much do, I feel.

I feel like the police seem like they do. And I feel like everyone knows, but no one knows. Nobody knows. I know. And I also tried to find out if John Griscombe, Jr. got married, and I couldn't find any marriage certificates for him. I'm sure he did, but not in New York. Junior.

So that is the crazy case. of the disappearance of Dorothy Arnold. It is indeed. That was a crazy wild ride. Yeah. I know. I was going to say ghoulish ride, but it really wasn't. It, like, felt ghoulish at times.

Yeah, it did. No, it was times. And then my brain got stuck on ghoulish and just kept saying it over and over again, and I was like, what's another adjective? Goolish. My brain was like, say it. Say ghoulish. Say it.

You won't. You want to. But what I will say is that we hope you keep listening. And we hope you. Keep. It's weird. I kind of want you to keep it so weird that like you just disappear one day and nobody knows where you went, but actually you're just having a great time somewhere. Start a great life where your husband is like, what's your maiden name again?

Yeah, keep it that weird, motherfucker. You make everyone sweat around you do it. I kind of want you to keep it as weird as Dorothy as long as she's all right.