Morbid - The Pamela Smart Case (Part 1)

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

Mention the Pamela Smart case to someone in New Hampshire, and they'll know exactly what you're talking about. The case captivated the nation in the early 90's and at the center of it all, of course, was Pamela. A New Hampshire native, she had big dreams of becoming somebody and making a name for herself. She moved away from her small town and almost did, but in the name of love she moved back home and settled into her career as a School Administrator. It was via that position that she would meet young sophomore in High School, Billy Flynn. Pam groomed the boy, and had him thinking they were fully in love before she asked him a question that would change both of their lives forever: Would he murder her husband? In part one we'll cover the early life of both Pam and her husband, Gregg Smart, we'll break down how Pam and Billy became involved with each other and just how Pam got Billy to believe that murdering her husband was what it would take for them to be together forever.Special thank you to the brilliant David White for research assistanceReferencesBaker, Frank. 1990. "Smart to be jailed until trial." Concord Monitor, August 14: 1.—. 1990. "Widow charged as accomplice." Concord Monitor, August 2: 14.Carton, Barbara. 1991. "The Pamela Smart story." Boston Globe, Marcg 21.1991. NH v. Smart: Opening Statements. Directed by Court TV. Performed by Court TV.Derry News. 1990. "Family and friends puzzle over murder." Derry News, May 4: 1.Englade, Ken. 1991. Deadly Lessons. New York, NY: St. Martin's Press.Gaines, Judith, and Alexander Reid. 1991. "Jurors say tales a key to their decision." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.Hernandez, Monica. 2023. Accomplice in Smart murder asks for sentence reduction. January 10. Accessed May 1, 2023. https://www.wmur.com/article/smart-murder-vance-lattime-sentence-reduction/42449265.Hohler, Bob. 1991. "3 guilty in N.H. killing." Boston Globe, January 30: 1.—. 1991. "Confidant was wired by police." Boston Globe, March 15: 21.—. 1991. "Smart is found guilty." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.—. 1991. "Smart pleaded for life, N.H. teen-ager testifies." Boston Globe, March 6: 19.—. 1991. "Tales of seduction." Boston Globe, March 12: 1.—. 1990. "Tape offered at Smart hearing." Boston Globe, August 14.—. 1991. "Witness: Smart asked for tips on reaction." Boston Globe, March 3: 27.—. 1991. "Youth says blood flowed, tears did not." Boston Globe, March 13: 35.Kilgannon, Corey. 2023. "Smart, who plotted with a teen lover to kill her husband, loses a parole bid." New York Times, March 30.Kittredge, Clare. 1991. "A verdict to take to son's grave." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.—. 1991. "Smart trial garners big TV audience." Boston Globe, March 17: 1.Richardson, Franci. 1990. "Mrs. Smart absolutely convinced husband surprised thief." Derry News, May 9: 1.Sawicki, Stephen. 1991. Teach Me to Kill: The Shocking True Story of the Pamela Smart Murder Case. New York, NY: Avon Books.Schweitzer, Sarah. 2015. "5 years later, shooter to go free: William Flynn was 16 when he was lured into murder by Pamela Smart." Boston Globe, March 13: A1.State of New Hampshire v. Pamela Smart. 1993. 622 A.2d 1197 (Supreme Court of New Hampshire, February 26).Wang, Beverley. 2005. "Pamela Smart accomplice released." Concord Monitor, June 15: 10.West, Nancy. 2016. Breaking Silence: Cecelia Pierce Speaks. October 12. Accessed April 24, 2023. https://www.nhmagazine.com/breaking-silence-cecelia-pierce-speaks/.West, Nancy, and David Mendelsohn. 2016. Pamela Smart: innocent of (still) guilty. October 13. Accessed April 29, 2023. https://www.nhmagazine.com/pamela-smart-innocent-or-still-guilty/ https://www.bostonherald.com/2015/03/09/brother-of-pamela-smarts-victim-killer-did-his-time/Thanks to Care/of for being a sponsor of this episode. For 50% off your first Care/of order, go to TakeCareOf.com and enter code MORBID50. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Elena. And this is morbid. Love morbid. I love morbid. I like doing a podcast with you. I like doing a podcast with you. Thanks. This has been fun.

That sounded scripted as fog guys next week. Bye. And that was our podcast. That's it. No. We are finally doing part two of the Ireland Vanishing Triangle. O.M.G. I went in like a big.

search about this because I couldn't wait for part two. It really, it sucks you in. But I'm sure you're going to tell me things I didn't find. There's even more stuff with this that we, I swear we could go on like a week-long tirade about all of the, the little like offshoots of this and everything. But I think I've narrowed it down to the important things that I feel like I wanted to cover. Yeah.

But before we jump right into it, we just wanted to say we're excited for the virtual live show tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. I can't wait to see you guys in our brains. in our brains. And not actually in our eyeballs. Well, and meet the people who got the meat and green tickets. So we're excited to do that.

And, you know, hopefully we'll be able to do more of these while we wait for the world to reopen. We do want to do more. And we are also going to try to do some, I think, that are going to accommodate, you know, our international. Yeah, like the weirdos. So we're going to try to do some that will be a different. Because you know what? if I have to wake up at like seven in the morning and do a live show just to make it so that you guys can actually see it at a decent time. I'll do it. That's fine with me. I don't care. I'm fine because you guys rule. And so

we're definitely going to do that. We'll be we'll be figuring it out as we go. But if you didn't get to grab tickets this time, hopefully there'll be more opportunities. Hopefully it's going to be interesting. We themed this whole thing out. So if this theme goes well, we're going to have to use it again and again and again and again. It's going to be interesting to, it's basically just going to be like doing our podcast how we normally do it, just talking to each other. I know, I'm like, I'm going to need to remember to like look into the computer and not just directly at you. It's definitely going to be a little strange, but I think we'll be able to, we'll be able to kind of picture that everybody's watching. I'm also super excited to be back at AS 220. I'm very excited because I love AS 220.

Yes. It's going to, I'm going to miss like the crowd noise and like, the energy. that you get from it, but you know what? It's going to make us excited for it to come back. Annie's going to be in the audience. And I was like, I'm going to need you to just be like, whoa. Give our crowd. Give us crowd noise.

I was like, we should make you have like a laugh track. We said that the other day. We should just be like, ha, ha, ha, ha. So yeah, we're excited about that. The other thing I just wanted to mention in like corrections, you know, our little corrections segment here is I know it's killing Texas from the Vanessa. again case. I'm just confused about why you don't pronounce everything correctly. Yeah, I finally to the point where I don't care. So at this point, I'm going to give it my best shot. If I don't do it right,

I don't do it right. But I think I'm going to small town murder this and just go, I'm going to try. Here's the thing. I'm going to lay it all out for you. I try to, and you try to. Sometimes we pause the episode and we like listen to the little pronunciation lady on Google. Guess what? everybody. Sometimes she's wrong. Even she is wrong sometimes. And then she's out here making me look like a fucking idiot. She is. So thanks a lot, pronunciation lady. God damn it. So you know what? We try our best. But you know what? With this one, I will say, when I had typed it into my notes, I didn't put the second L in killing. So it was spelled like, like, Eileen. So like how you would pronounce that. So I pronounced it. Kailene, because in my mind it made sense. I'm Sorry killing Texas.

We still like you. Please forgive me, I suppose. At least, people are a lot nicer about that. People have been very nice. I mean, we had a couple. One other place. We won't talk about that other place. That place that must not be named.

I have officially taken a my favorite murder, a small town murder, stance on it. I'm going to do my best with town names. If I fuck it up, I fuck it up. Don't at me. The end. Just kidding. People are like, ow. The end. So, yeah, so Kylie or killing Texas. God damn it. I know. See, it's in my head. Killing Texas. I'm sorry, killing Texas.

And then the... Is there more? The other thing, this isn't correction, but I just wanted to say that we got so many messages from like military members. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Military spouses, like family members, friends of military people. You've all been so sweet and like helped us understand some things better about the armory because we had a few like Marines and Army. people that will tell us, army people. That's so like, civilian of me. I'm like, army people. It's okay. I once said Marine Corps like an idiot. You sure did. I'm really sorry, everyone. I just wanted to say thank you to everybody who's been reaching out and like, you know, letting us know that, you know, in their experience, there is only one person allowed in the armory at a time. And it's like a sign in, sign out kind of thing. Yeah. And that like some of these things made sense.

Like we had a couple people tell us, you know, it might not have been weird to see him like, lugging that pelican case around. And if he was covered in stuff, people might not question it because there's so many different jobs around that you could get dirty with things. So it made sense. I appreciate everybody reaching out. And that's why we, that's the kind of thing we love. We love when people would be like, hey, let me tell you about my experience with this. And it's like, cool, let's have a combo. Yeah, I love it. So I just want to say thank you to all those military members and military adjacent people who were so sweet and reached out and made us learn some stuff. So thanks for that.

Thank you. You guys rule. I think that's really all the business. Yeah, I literally have nothing else. Yeah, listen to Crime Countdown. It's awesome. I love that show. I've heard of it.

Yeah, it's really great. I don't know about it. So let's start with the Ireland Vanishing Triangle Part 2. Okay, okay. So we covered the first two, first three disappearances in the triangle. We are coming up on a young girl, 17 years old, named Kiarah Breen. So she's the youngest thus far. She's the youngest thus far. I think we also touched upon Larry Murphy, the savage, like rapist and pedophile. Yes. That was trolling around

at this area. Yes. We're going to really talk about him at the end of this. It was just like a quick dab. Yeah, we just were like, by the way, Larry's up in here. P.S. Lerler. Just little trigger warning. We're going to talk about a case with him and it's rapism. involved. He is a savage beast. I just want to let everybody know that is going to be part of this. So just be aware. Okay. So Kiarabreen was 17 years old and she was last seen February 13th, 1997 in her bedroom. In her bedroom? Yes. Oh, just like the last victim as well. Her mother went to check on her at 1 a.m. And she was not there. That's a fucking nightmare. Yeah. Gone without a trace. So her mother, Bernadette, noticed the window in the living room was slightly open. Oh.

No, no. So she assumed that she had snuck out to meet with friends in the middle of the night because Kiarra was 17 and had also briefly run away once with a girlfriend in 1995 when she was like 15. Oh, no. There was a hold to do about it, like police searching everything involved when she did that in 1995. But she ended up showing up a couple days later and it was just teen angsty things.

Yeah. So according to Missing Presumed by Alan Bailey, which is a great book and everybody should read it, after that incident, she seemed to have actually gotten it out of her system. It was kind of chilled out a lot. Good. It was almost like the tipping point where she did that and then she was like, whoa, I'm sorry. Like, I'm not going to be. We've all had that as teens.

So her mom waited up all night for her to come home because she was like, I'm sure she's going to crawl back in here and I can nail her. And we're going to get her in trouble. But she never actually did. That's awful. So 9 a.m. came around and still no sign of her. But Bernadette had actually had a doctor's appointment where she was going. that morning and she went and found out that she was diagnosed with cancer.

That morning? Yes. Still no Kiara. So the guard eye was contacted. Okay. Now, this was a big deal that there was a missing child, obviously, from their bed, because obvious reasons. Yeah.

But also, because at the time, there happened to be a group of pedophiles that were roaming around the area of Dundalk where they lived. And they had been trying to lure children. teens into like sex trafficking situations. Oh shit. Yeah. One of these perverts was a woman who was recruiting young teens into sex work. And apparently, uh, guard eye had been investigating and had evidence that Kiarra's

group of friends had actually been targeted before. Oh no. Because she had a big group of friends. You know, they went out to like little, you know, dining places and stuff. Yeah. And these like groups of pedophiles will like stand in the periphery and just like watch them. What the fuck? Yeah.

That's so eerie. Isn't that horrifying? Also, that just reminded. me of Gileane. Gleine. May she get what's coming to her. So a few things stuck out when they went over this whole thing. So she had run away before, but this time it just didn't make sense.

Kiarra knew her mother had a doctor's appointment that morning, and she knew it could end up being like a serious diagnosis. She was very aware of it. They had actually had like a nice night together the evening before they went dinner out together. It was like to take her mom's mind off of things. Yeah. They went home and they watched a movie together.

Like it was supposed to be like a A good night. Yeah. So she wouldn't have left her mom to face that alone. No. She just wouldn't have done it. Also, she was supposed to meet her birth father for the first time in her entire life in the following days.

Oh, wow. So a lot was happening. Yeah. So none of this made sense that she would just up and leave and just abandon all this. So there was a massive search. Forensic searches of her bedroom. They turned up nothing. but they did see that the window was opened from the inside.

Okay, so she maybe. So she left voluntarily. Right. And all fingerprints were from Kiara. Her key was even found, or the key to the house, was found under the window. Like she was coming back. So it looked like she dropped it when she left through the window. Oh, okay.

There was no sign of forced entry, no struggle anywhere. Initially, the initial investigators on the case spoke to her friends and family. close associates of hers, obviously. They all gave statements, said, and they were like, you know, she has snuck out before. That's been a thing. Right. We've all done it. Is this, this happening again?

And then they were like, you know, had you seen her with anyone? Was she talking to anyone in the days leading up to this? Nothing really came from this, but then. But then. Two years later, when Trace, the task force that had been created. Yes, yes, yes. Was established. They came into the picture and they really started.

honing in on going back over these interviews and like using a fine-tooth comb to look through them. And they were like, this is a close group. There has to be something here. Right. So Keara and her friends had gone to a place that they often went and they went there the day before her disappearance. Okay. It was a cafe of sorts like a dining place. They hung out there a lot.

Well, this one older guy always seemed to be hanging out as well. And the friends all said that he was super creepy, but Kiara really liked him. like had a crush on him oh and he seemed to like her that's not good that day they said they heard him ask kiara to hang out with him and she told him that that evening she would sneak out of her house in the middle of the night after her mom went to bed to see him oh no and like obviously that's messed up but she was probably like really excited yeah he groomed her right that's what they do that's horrible so when trace talked to the initial investigators to be like what the fuck this looks like good information, like why wasn't this looked into? They said, well, you know, the teens that said this

are really not credible. Like they've had, like, they've been like in petty trouble. Like, they've been in petty thefts and stuff and like, we're not going to believe them. But if multiple people say the same thing and it's like, like, it adds up to what you found in your investigation, like what? And they just dismissed it. And it's also like, why would they lie about that? Yeah, it's a weird fucking thing to lie about. That doesn't help them. But when they went back to, so the trace went back to these teens who are a little older now. And they were like, we need to ask you the same questions and we want to get your story again. This is like two years later.

The same thing. Their stories never changed. And they said like nothing changed about it. Same exact thing. Didn't make it worse. Didn't make it better. Just same stories. So that's pretty telling.

Well, finally, they were able to convince these crazy initial investigators that this was a good case to arrest the older guy who isn't, they didn't name this guy. Okay. And they wanted to charge him with the murder of Kiara Breen, even though they didn't have a body. Well, they ended up having to use a super weird case as a precedent for this because of the lack of body. They can't just go and say arrest him for murder. They'd be like, you know, where she? Like bad place to meet on night, right?

Yeah. It would, so this case that they used was the murder of Captain Robert Narek by IRA member Liam Townsend. The IRA making another appearance. They're all over this thing. So the law officers agreed that it did work as a precedent. So they were going to try to go further. So older creepy guy was arrested September 12th, 1999. Okay.

They could only initially hold him for 12 hours. Because they didn't have anything. They had nothing. So they were really just being like, we need to interrogate him in 12 hours and get this confession. Make him crack. Yeah. So during that time, they interviewed him, interrogated him with every way and method they could think of to try to get him to say this. he denied even knowing her.

So right away, he's a liar. Well, and right away, that's fucking weird. Yeah. And he's, already, you're lying. Right. So I know that you're just holding on to it because you even denying that you know her? That's huge. Everybody's saying you know her.

People know you know her. In fact, in that book missing presumed by Alan Bailey, he said that near Kiarah's home, it was spray painted on like a wall somewhere, like on the street. Yeah. This guy's name loves Kiyara. Oh, okay. So it's like, where did that come from? I don't know if you know.

Do you know how much older he was? No, it's not said exactly, but he was older. Like to the point. I'm picturing like some 40 year old doing spray paint. Like, I love Kiarra. It totally could have been. Honestly, the way they described him is like he's a real creepy older guy. That should not have been interested in a 17 year old.

Right. But so this dude held out, would not say, they couldn't charge him with anything. And they just had to release him. That fucking sucks. Isn't that the worst? Yes. I did read reports that he possibly died of a drug overdose.

Ooh, that's interesting. So that, who knows? But either way, he got out of that and he was able to walk away and live. Damn. So it's like, now do we know, like, could he have done this to more girls? That's the thing. So people do believe that he is responsible for PR. People believe in the investigators really do believe he was the guy.

in August 2015, investigators started randomly searching these specific marshlands in the area. Yeah. And it was because two witnesses had said they saw Kiara on the evening she went missing around this area. Uh-huh. And then two letters were received by authorities anonymously saying police should search that area for Kiara. Oh, damn. Nothing was found. That's weird.

But anonymous letters and then they go look and it's not. Or maybe those anonymous letters were. trying to lead them in the wrong direction. It's true. It could have been that or it's like it's like who knows, maybe you're just missing something. Right. It's like we don't know. That's a lot to search. And it's again, yeah, like you say, it's a really hard thing to search marshlands. It's not easy. So who knows? That was in 2015. They were still thinking they're going to find her. So I hope they do. I mean, fingers crossed that they can find her because, you know, this family deserves closure. That was like a very sad one. It is. They're all sad. They're all sad. They're all really. They're all really.

sad. Everyone you hear, you're just like, man, that one's sad too. It's just like, they all just like hit you. Yeah. And it, in a different way, too. Yeah. And I'm, I'm going to tell like what my theory is on this whole, like, vanishing triangle thing is at the end. But I don't think a serial killer is. And you think it's just a sad triangle? I think it's just a sad triangle. And I think that Larry Murphy has a lot to do with a few of them. So, so yeah, so that was Kear Breen. Okay. They still have not found her, no trace of her. I really hope they do.

I know. It's really sad. So the next one that we're going to talk about is Fiona Sinnott. Okay. She was 19 years old. She went missing on February 9th, 1998. Her story is really sad. Again, they're all sad.

But this one just has another element to it that I was like, man. Hitsy from another angle. Yeah, it's a bummer. We're really getting hit by all angles. She was 19 years old. She was a single mother of an 11. month old daughter named Emma. Stop.

She was living in a southwest Wexford, in southwest Wexford, in a little village called Broadway. She was living alone and taking care of her child. She was known to be very responsible, very independent. She loved being a mom. Everyone says like she doted on Emma. She just like, flourished and not. She just like found her, her niche being a mom. She had a very good relationship with her family.

They lived nearby, but they didn't speak every day. which will a lot of people were wondering because she wasn't reported missing right away and a lot of people were like what the hell when it comes to her family i think it's just a matter of like the way they communicate all the time so i think it just wasn't but there's another element to it that you're like why wasn't she so apparently before moving into her own place which was somewhat recent she had a very abusive relationship with her child's father oh no His name was Sean Carroll, and he was about 10 years older than Fiona. He was a monster, like an absolute monster. There's so many shitty fucking dudes in this story.

Police knew their, they knew the place where they lived before she moved out. Because they were always there. Because they were there all the time. That always makes me so sad when police are like, oh, yep, we knew that place. She was admitted to the hospital many times because of him. In the missing presumed book by Alan Bailey, he says, because remember, he's like, one of the lead investigators in the Trace Task Force. He says this about one such incident.

He said, quote, she told a number of her friends a harrowing story involving vicious and prolonged sexual abuse that this man had subjected to her to when she was heavily pregnant. Oh, God. I have personally read with revulsion the various reports concerning this particular assault and can honestly say that if only half of it was true, then her assailant should be stood trial for and should never again have been accepted back into normal society. Wow.

And then he said the attack bordered on barbaric. So he's obviously a good suspect in her disappearance already. Yeah. And while she was heavily pregnant. That reminds me of the Ariel Castro story. Oh, it's horrific. Horific. So the night she went missing, she had gone to a pub called Butler's with three friends.

Baby Emma was with her exes' parents. So with Sean's parents. Now, even though he was a monster, they were cool. She wanted, I don't know how cool they were. I think she was like, they're her grandparents. They need a relationship. They want to be a part of her life. So I'm not going to deny that.

Good for her. That says a lot about her character. Yeah, that she was like, I know what, we'll let this happen. So baby Emma was with Sean Carroll's parents. Apparently throughout the night, her friends noticed she kept wincing, like in pain. And they were like, what, what's, what are you doing? Like, what's the bad? And she said that her upper chest and her arm hurt.

Like a heart attack. Almost, yeah. It seems to me. I'm like, did anyone think to be like, you're having a heart attack? A myocardial infarction right now. That's exactly what they would say. Oh, fuck. I think she's having a myocardial infection.

She is. I don't even think I said. What is it? A myocardial infarction. Infarction. That just sounds like fart. Oh, I'm 12. When you are.

So she wouldn't say what was causing this issue. She was just like, yeah, this is what hurts. I can also be anxiety. Yeah, and they were like, so during the evening, you know, she wouldn't elaborate anymore. She was just like, yeah, it hurts, whatever, I'll figure it out. She kept saying she was going to the doctor's next morning, so she was like, we'll figure it out. Well, during the evening, her ex, Sean walked into the pup. Oh.

And he didn't come to, like, hang out with this friend group, obviously. No, thanks. They didn't say a word to each other. They saw each other, did not acknowledge each other. He just walked in and he sat at the bar and drank alone all night. But he was like watching her, I feel. On the peripheral. Here's that.

On the peripheral. Or the prowl. That's also a really good spinoff of Generation Y, the podcast, the peripheral. You should listen to it. It's good. Cool. So he's just sitting on the peripheral. I don't like that.

Yeah. So a driver driving. by the area that evening said that they did see a couple on the side of the road arguing later in the night when like all the bars and pubs closed. And then someone who lived right nearby said they heard a female screaming at the same time. Oh, no. Now, her friends say that Fiona left to the pub when it closed and she left by herself. And she told her friends like, it was a short distance to her house.

So she was like, see you later. I'm just going to walk home. Yeah. It's totally fine. They said that her and Sean didn't leave together, but Sean left after her. Because he was fucking watching her. Exactly. So it's like, so they were like now I think they're sitting there being hindsight

20-20 to be like, wait a second, he was following her. Right. So it wasn't until February 18th that her father Patrick reported her missing. So that was 10 days after she was last year. Yeah. But again, this is because she didn't talk all the time. She didn't speak to her family every day. So maybe no alarm bells initially ran.

that's a long time to me but who am I to judge but our family literally is so close like we talk every single day yeah I think it's because I yeah we talk every day because you watch shows sometimes and they're like it wasn't unlike her to not call for like five days yeah and to me I'm like what I'm fine yeah ma would be like the fuck yeah pick up your damn phone I would have like the national guard out here literally but this is again they would they didn't talk every day so I can kind of understand I got it you know she was working she was taking care of a baby maybe they were just thinking she was strung out with work and everything. But the fucked up part is that her daughter was with Sean's parents that evening.

So in 10 days, they weren't concerned that she wasn't coming back to get her daughter. Yeah, that's odd. Like, she went out for a night and never came back. I wonder if like because Sean was like such a shit stain, he had told the parents like shitty things about her. And maybe because of her age, they were like, oh, well, maybe she just like, ran away or like, you know what I mean? Did they ever say anything?

They do believe that they, that this whole thing was set out to make it look like Fiona abandoned her child and just left. Right. But, no. Obviously she didn't. But I could see where maybe his parents think, have a different. Well, it sounds like his parents are not like the super, you know, light of the, of the universe here.

Oh, no, I'm not thinking they are. I don't think they were super like, oh, that must be it. I think they were just like, whatever. cool we have our grandkid. I think they were literally like, we don't care what happened to her. I agree. I get that. So investigators talked to Sean and he said, because they were like, you followed her out of the pub that night. We all know it. What the fuck? And you have your daughter, what's going on here? So Sean was like, okay, well, he said, I met her outside. We talked a little bit. I walked her home. Because I'm such a good guy. Such a gentleman. And he said he slept on the

couch because she was complaining, like her friend said, that she had arm and chest pain. And I wanted to be there for her because I'm so awesome. He said he was worried, so he slept on the couch. The next morning around, and she had told him, I'm going to go to the doctor's next morning. So he was like, okay. So the next morning around 9 a.m., his mother, Emma's grandmother, came and picked him up at Fiona's home. Okay. So again, she wasn't like, hey, is Fiona going to take the baby back? So whatever. So he. The mom picks him up. They went back to the grandparents' home where Emma was.

Emma just stayed there forever. And Fiona's parents barely get to see her. Like, they've like cut Fiona's parents out of seeing. That's horrific. To me, the Carol family... It sounds pretty planned. Yeah. Well, it gets even worse.

So to me, the Carol family has a lot to answer for. Yeah. Because I'm like, Sean knows where the fuck she is. And they know. Right. They know more than they're letting them. I agree. So obviously investigators did a search

of her home. They found no evidence of foul play. Everything was pretty normal. But there was one big, huh, when they came in. Himmy up. The house was almost completely empty. And what I mean is, it's like no one had ever lived there. Everything was gone. It's like it was vacant. There was no personal items in the house. Oh, that just creeped me out. And they were like, wait, where's all her stuff? A 19-year-old teenager lives here with her 11-month-old daughter. There should be shit everywhere. Right. And they were literally, and it wasn't like, oh, there's just not a lot of stuff. Nothing was in that house. And was it cleaned? No personal items were in that house. Where the fuck did they go? Do they find them? Well, then they started asking people who knew her. They were like, did she just not have anything in that house?

Is she like a very minimalistic human being? What happened? People who had visited her were like, oh no, there was shit everywhere. In fact, she was like very known for being a messy person. And she had an 11-month-old. So it was like toys were everywhere. Yeah. Baby things were everywhere. Right. They were like, no, that was not an empty place.

The place was cleaned out. That's scary. This case went all over the news, and the news did say that the place was cleaned out, that there was nothing in there. So suddenly a farmer in the area contacts authorities, and it's like, uh. He's got a landfill, huh? He's like, so that girl's house that was empty? Well, before her disappearance, when. public. He was checking his cattle and noticed that someone had dumped a ton of black garbage bags

in his ditch. And it was on his property. But he said that happened a lot. People were like illegally dump on his property. So he was like, he figured it was just somebody else who had thrown all their garbage in there. But then he was like, wait a second. Well, he was pissed. So he was like, you know what? I'm just going to light all these things on fire to burn it and get rid of it. Okay. Because I'm not going to lug all these to like a landfill. I'm just going to light him on fire. destroyed the evidence accidentally. Fuck. But he did happen to open one of the bags to make sure he wasn't destroying anything

like valuable. He just like peeked in and he said he found medicine containers in there with the name Fiona sent it on them. Stop. So that was all her stuff. And this was days before she went missing? Well, no, this was before news had broke of her disappearance. Oh, okay, okay, okay.

So this was within the 10 days that no one knew she was even missing. He happened to find these. It was in that 10-day period where... Where Sean was cleaning out her house. Exactly. Right. So they had set up roadblocks. They had asked drivers in the area.

If they saw anyone hitchhiking matching her appearance, nothing came up. They couldn't find anything. And I think that's because she went home with Sean. And that was it. I think that was the end of it. When speaking with her friends, they mentioned another instance of Sean being a crazy person. Because they were like, let me tell you what kind of person he is. She had met, like, only days before she disappeared.

She had gone out and met an English. truck driver. And they had hit it off. And she spent the evening with him in the cab of his truck. Cool. Like get it, girl. I was going to say she's having a hot girl summer. She is. So Sean found out he came to the cab. He starts slamming on the cab door and screaming for her to get out. So here's the thing that why is he always just like a little bit away? He's just around. Because he's fucking stalking her. He's lurking everywhere. Right. Right. Well, she didn't get out of the cab. She's like, fuck you, Sean. This guy is awesome.

And he left finally because it was just him. But when the investigators then spoke to the truck driver because they found this guy because they were like, now we've got to talk to you. Yeah. He was like, oh, yeah, the 100% that happened. Like, we met. We were together in my cab. And this happened. And he said, let me just tell you, though, Fiona, the face she had when he showed up was pure

terror and he said he had never seen someone's face like she probably went like super pale and he was like when sean showed up screaming for her to come out she was paralyzed in fear and he was like paralyzed like that man has broken done horrible things so people think this may have been the tipping point like this is what set him off and that's what set him off and that at the pub that night she went missing he was just watching her and waiting to strike and just waiting for her to be alone so what the fuck happens to him so he happened to also Sean had a bunch of drug charges on him and when he had like a gang of like you know people that were getting in trouble with drugs and when his gang and he was arrested at one point for drug charges because again they had no concrete evidence about Fiona they

didn't have a body he cleaned the place out all they have is people saying he's a shithead and that he followed her out so when they were arrested for drug charges of course course they were asked about Fiona's disappearance because now people are saying how did he clean out that whole place himself by himself he had friends have you ever fucking moved yeah he had he had people helping him well they all just basically pled the fifth oh so all of them were basically like we weren't arrested for that we're not going to talk about it when you sit there and plead the fifth it's so incriminating to plead the fifth like it is just saying i did it yeah you're oj simsitting it and in this case the the sum being like i wasn't arrested on this so like i don't have to tell you i'm not going to talk about it

And the idea that he, so like basically the idea was floated that he had killed Fiona and then his friends helped him dispose of the body and empty her home. Great. And it seems like a really good theory. In September 2008, Fiona's family and friends had a memorial ceremony in Our Lady's Island Cemetery for her because she was officially declared dead. And they still didn't have a body. Still didn't have a body. That always makes me so sad. And they had a plaque put up for her on the wall.

of the cemetery for her in memoriam. Yeah. And they had put that plaque up the day before, or they had it put up the day before, and then they were going to unveil it at the ceremony the next day. Oh, no. The day of the memorial, the plaque was gone, stolen. What the fuck? How do you steal a plaque? Investigators think that her murderer or people involved with it stole that plaque. Why would you even do that? Yeah. And then, why are you so fucked up? I guess one of the guys that they had arrested, you know, was part of Sean's whole inner circle had started to become somebody near him was like he's starting to crack and he's starting to talk about how he did this he helped cover this up and he's

feeling really guilty and he can't handle it anymore let's pile on the guilt so they were like let's do this shit well they ended up that dude ended up overdosing and dying of a drug overdose and they don't know if it was on purpose or accidental but either way they weren't able to get him to crack they got to get somebody to crack in this. So again, I know. I can't believe, and I know it does happen, but it's hard to believe that that many evil, evil, evil, fucked up to the core people find each other. I know, it's true.

And there's got to be like at least one that you can crack. There's not many coincidences in the world. No. And these, this seems to be a whole lot of weird coincidences. Yeah. And just, yeah. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, and as far as investigators are concerned, they're pretty sure I feel like typically a lot of coincidences in a case actually just translates into a lot of circumstantial evidence.

Exactly. And unfortunately, this is the situation here. But again, they've never found Fiona. That's really sad. I mean, her daughter is becoming an adult at this point. I hope she's been able to see her other grandparents. And I think she's, you know, I can't imagine having to learn all this later in life and not know where your mom is. Who knows what she's been told now?

And I'm sure she was told at some point, like, you know, your mom just abandoned you. Right. It's like, that's terrible. That'll fuck you up. So that's the case of Fiona Senate. And hopefully, you know, I hope in all these cases, at least we find something here. Right. It's like really upsetting to get to the end of each one of them and be like, and she's never been found.

And it's unsolved. That's what's so frustrating. So the next one we're going to talk about is on July 28th, 1998, and it's Deirdre Jacob. This one's really weird. And this is where Larry Murphy comes in. and hard. So she was 18 years old. Deirdre wanted to be a teacher.

She was going to college in London at St. Mary's University. She was home with her parents for the summer at the time. And she was super smart, very happy person, had a great home life. Everything was fine. She was doing great. She was last seen walking in through the front gates of her parents' home, July 28th, 1998, and was never seen again. So that's weird. Not even walking through the door, just getting to the front gate.

of her parents' home and that was the last time she was seen. Isn't that so weird when, especially in this case, there's now three people that were last seen like on the property of their own home? Oh yeah. It's really, it's really creepy. So she had been in Newbridge, um, within town that day going like just doing some things around town, some errands. She visited her grandmother, Bridget O'Grady, which I'm like, that's a great name. That really is. Bridget O'Grady. She's got stories. Yeah, she does. She has so many stories. Uh, she was particularly in town that day, two to get a bank draft so that she could make sure to secure her apartment in London with a roommate for the second year of college. So she wanted to make sure to get that in, get that settled,

so she could make sure she was set. So she had shit to do. She had shit to do. She was a girl on the move. She had plans and she was doing it. Right. So she left around 302 p.m. And she called her grandma like left town. Like she was, you know, on her way back, she called her grandmother again to check in because she was just a good granddaughter. I love that. It was about a 25-minute walk from town to her home and she walked it all the time. It was on like country roads. And on her walk, she was spotted by at least eight to ten people who confirmed she was walking home. Six of these people knew her personally. So I could say, yes, I spoke to her. Most of these people spoke to her on the walk or like wave to her or anything. So they were very, they knew that it was her. This is not just like

random people driving by. There's also CCP. TV footage to confirm that she was walking around town that day and that she'd gone into the bank when she did, that she had used the phone. She was wearing a navy blue shirt, blue jeans, Nike sneakers, and a black messenger style bag with the words cat and yellow letters on it. It was a very distinctive bag and people really like honed in on this bag because not a lot of people have it. Yeah. But they never found it. Now her mother returned home from work that night at around 6 p.m. and Deidre wasn't home. And she was like, that's weird. Immediately she was concerned.

This was in a case of like, oh, maybe she's going to be back. She was like, nope. Deirdre said she was going to be back around like 3.30, 4 o'clock. She's not home by 6. Something's wrong. Like she would have called. Immediately because she was like, this just isn't Deirdre. Her parents pretty quickly called the police and the investigation began right away.

So a ton of rumors began circulating and sightings started rolling in. Most of them were not helpful. Which is annoying. I think I saw her here. I think I saw her here. Just people that want to be involved. Yeah. then one sighting came in that intrigued investigators and still does so a man called into the shannon side northern sound radio station and said he was driving a truck in the area that day that dirdre went missing and he said he saw her on the side of the road and he said he met her when she was hitchhiking near county killedair and he had stopped and asked if she needed a ride he was like where are you going i can probably bring you um she was going she was going

in the direction he was, so she agreed, and he drove her to Carrick McCross. I just looked it up. That's exactly what the person sounded like. They did. I looked it up last night, but then sometimes you like forget, like you write it down how it's supposed to say it. I'll look up something like 42 times and then I'll be recording and I'm like, fuck, what was it? Because I get like anxiety. So it's Carrick McCross. See what you guys have done to us. See? But I'm right about this one. My Irish ladies and bros can tell me. So yeah, so he drove her to Carrickmacross and he dropped her there. And he, so he had called this radio station 10 times to try to tell them this story.

He also wrote a four-page letter detailing this and sent it to the Leinster Leader newspaper. So this dude was like, I know where she was. I saw her. I dropped her here. She didn't go straight home. Like I'm trying to tell you she was in Kerigma-cross. Okay. So Deirdre had spent time in Carrick Macross recently with like friends.

Sure. And people thought, you know, maybe she had met another friend there and was going to visit them and just failed to tell her family. But wouldn't she have told Bridget? She would have. Her family went there a ton of times and like passed out her photo, missing posters, asked people about her. Nobody had anything. No one had seen her. The truck driver refused to identify himself.

Weird. So they were like, come on, man. So January 9th, 1999, Trace decided the only way to get him out of hiding was to release a recording of his call via the Garda press office. Apparently had a very distinctive northern Irish accent and tons of people, like hundreds of people called in to be like, oh, I know who that is. Like that's a very distinctive. Is it Larry? He's not even a creeper. They were just like, oh, I just know who that is.

Or I at least know where he's from. Okay. They'll be like that accent is from here. So they had a name now. And they said he lived in a village of Fermanagh. Fermanagh, Fermanagh, shit. Look it up, bitch. I'm checking it for Manna.

I was right the first time. When we listened back to that audio that was really aggressive sounding of me. It was like, shit. You know what? I wrote down the pronunciation, like phonetically. How do you say? I still second guessed myself. Again, I'm in my head.

Look what you have done to us. Like where Elena's twitching. Guys, I'm a, I'm a shell of. who I was because of this Killeen and Naperville. God damn you. So for Manna, they said he lived in this village. It was in Northern Ireland, but he lived in a different jurisdiction. And so Trace couldn't just extradite him over the border just to interview him. Wait, I'm sorry. Is Fermanna the village? I got caught up. For Manna's the village. And it was in Northern Ireland. Okay, okay. But he couldn't just, they couldn't just extradite him over the border where they were.

Right. And they couldn't just do it with just to interview him. jurisdiction. Yeah, they didn't have formal charges. So they were like, we got to figure out how to get him here so we can nab him. We need them. We need them. So they found out through badass investigative work that he happened to shop at a local supermarket in Monaghan at certain times every week. Wow. So they waited. So you're a routine guy. I know. So they waited on the Irish side of the border and they nabbed him as he crossed into their jurisdiction. Perfect. They interviewed him and he eventually admitted that he was the one who called. And he said, but I lied about the entire thing. So I was literally going to say that because I was like, she doesn't really sound like the type to hitchhike, even though it was super common back then. And then all these people saw her walking. So it just doesn't make sense. No, it didn't.

Well, he said, I lied about the whole thing. He had an alibi that checked out. Why would you write a four fucking page letter? Well, they were like, so you called 10 times. times and wrote a letter like you were very invested in selling this lie. He just really wanted to be involved. He said he had lost his young daughter in a car accident that he felt responsible for and he thought if he could provide this false account that maybe would provide her family some hope that she was still alive. That's nice but also like it's sad. It's like that's really, really

sad. But also it's like then you led them in the wrong direction for so long. For how long they've been sitting here holding on to this hope that you gave them and now it's just crashing. And they're like, well, just to say how amazing her family is, her mother, Bernadette and her little sister, Kiara, actually were worried about the well-being of this man. I would be too, to be honest. Like, they were like, we're not mad. Good for that. Is it brutal and did it crush us?

Yes. But you have to, then you have to take a step back and be like, obviously he's suffering. Which I'm like, what? But most people couldn't do that. That's, I agree. Like, I don't know if I could do that. So in their situation, so I give them a lot of credit for that. But it's a sad situation.

That's a sad, sad situation because that's a grieving father. Right. And he said, I know how it is to lose a child. And I just didn't want them to feel that they lost a child. Oh, that's really sad. And I was like, that's a really fucked up nice thing to do. It's like, don't do so many layers of that. Don't do it.

But I get it. It came from somewhere good in there, but like, yeah, the fact that it poorly executed. I was like, he just wanted to be involved. And then you're like, actually. Actually, it's a real sense. Sorry. Yeah, that's sad.

So nothing happened for a while after this. It went pretty cold. Then a brutal sexual assault occurred close to where Deidre was last seen. And it was tied to Pervert of the Century, Larry Murray. Great. Dude is a beast. He's a beast. So in 2001, he was convicted of an abduction, sexual assault, and a turn.

attempted murder and we're going to talk about this case after this so we'll go into like great detail and he was serving time at arbor hill prison and i guess this prison is weird and let's i mean it lets a lot of the prisoners like hang out and socialize a lot and they get like kitchen privileges go make some pancakes this fine this place is also filled with like uh like rapists murderers like pretty bad people um so when they get these kitchen privileges there's this like infamism brew that they do that they brew their own vodka. It's like, it's just infamous the specific vodka they make here. And they'll often just sit around, get drunk and spill their shit to each other, which is,

I guess it's good. Maybe that's why they let them, yeah. Because they get a lot of information out of this. But also some of it might just be like stupid shit you say when you're drunk. Well, one night in 2011, Larry spilled the beans about his involvement in Deirdre's disappearance. Oh, shit. He and another inmate started. trying to outdo each other with shit that they didn't get caught for.

Cute. Yeah, cute, exactly. Larry suddenly starts talking about he abducted a young girl near Newbridge a few years before. He said he was out driving and he was specifically hunting for a girl to abduct, as one does. So weird when you hear them being like, and I was out that day, like, think of all the times that you're just like drive in doing errands. Like, and the person you're passing might be hunting for a human to kill. Hunting for a girl to abduct. Hunting for humans.

Yeah. Okay. Well, he told this guy that he put some children's toys in his back seat. And he had a car seat back there because he had children. Are you fucking kidding me? And so he said when he would strew toys back there with the car seat, it made females who looked in his car feel like he was a good guy and safe. Wow.

This is how evil this fucker is. So he said he pulled up alongside this girl at the location where Deirdre was seen walking. Yep. And he used a map to like wave. out the front passenger side seat. And he was like, oh, I need help getting to us somewhere. And when she leaned closer to the window, he just he was like pointing at something. He said he grabbed her hair and roughly dragged her into the car, like just flipped her into

the car. It was like, I think Alan Bailey describes it as like a blitz attack, like no time for her to even well, yeah, literal blitz attack, like just ripped her into the car without even thinking. Well, he rips her into the front passenger seat and he shoves. her face and head into the floor of the passenger seat. So her body is up on. So she's literally stuck. Yeah. And if you think about being in that position, you can't get out of that position. How are you? Right. Or it's really hard to, especially if someone's holding you down. And it's terrifying. You're literally crunched on the floor like under the well. And you probably can't breathe. You're like,

like you just. Yeah. Jesus. Well, then he took a hammer and knocked her unconscious. Oh, my God. He then drove far away to a secluded area, sexually assaulted her, and killed her. And then he said he dumped her body somewhere. What a fucking monster. So the inmate that he told this to, because people were like, all right, a lot of times inmates will come forward. Like, we saw it in the West Memphis three case. That little turd that came forward was like, because Jason told me he put the balls in his mouth. And it's like, no, he didn't. Because they want leniency for their sentence. Yeah. They just want shit from people. Well, this inmate was serving a life sentence for murder. He wasn't getting out. So he was like, I got nothing to lose.

And he had a daughter. And so he said when investigators, because Trace went and talked to him and they were like, listen, one, we're not giving you anything for this. You will still have a life sentence. We're not going to protect you. We're not going to give you anything. You get nothing out of this. Right. Just so we're clear.

And he just thought it was the right thing to do. And this guy was like, I just, I know that. And that's fine. And then they were like, you might get targeted for ratting out a fellow inmate. And he said, even if he was killed for it, he was like, I have to say it. I can't live with this. And then he said, I have a daughter. And he said, I can't protect my daughter because I'm on the inside here.

And he said, but if this fucker gets out and can do this again, I will fear for my daughter. Wow. So he was actually like, I have to do this. I'm like, that man murdered somebody. I know. The fuck. It's so strange how people's minds can work like that. Like one thing is okay, but the other isn't.

Yeah. And he was in for murder on, I guess it was like a, it wasn't like a planned murder. It was like over a debt and that was an argument and he killed someone. That is, but by no means okay. No, but it's a different. It's a weird. Yeah. It's a weird murder.

But he was a murderer. Yes. So you just are like, you shouldn't have those feelings. I don't know. Right, right, right. But okay. So they were like, so they took his word and were like, you know what? that he has nothing to gain from this. Yeah, why would he lie about this? And when you look at Larry's

bullshit, it fits right along with what he does. Wow. So here's a little taste of Larry's bullshit. No, thank you. I decline. This is a, this is a tough one. So it has rape in it. So just as a trigger warning. Okay. So February 11th, 2000, Larry ate's, Larry eats. I thought you said Larry Eats. And I was like, Eats what? Larry Eats. It was like some shrieves. Like, what's going to to happen. I just put Larry and 28 together and it said Larry eight. So Larry's 28 year old victim who is not named. She's not named in anything. She left her business, which is not identified because she is not identified in this. She was 28 years old. She left her business at night in Carlo Town. She was walking a short distance from her shop to the parking garage where her car was parked. Larry had been following

and watching her for some time. Like a creep. He knew her routine. that she left every night at this time she parked in the same spot that she walked the same walk. No, don't do that. And he had planned everything to a T. He told his pregnant wife that he had an appointment so she wouldn't have to worry about him being late for work.

He also had two sons at home. Jesus Christ. He parked his car with the child seat in the back away from the woman's car outside of the garage and he had an entire plan in his mind about how he would abduct her and what he would do. Uh-huh. She got into the garage and walked towards her car, and Larry was up behind her in seconds, like, out of the dark.

He screamed at her to give over her purse, and she pulled it away. She was like, fuck you. And he punched her square in the face, breaking her nose immediately. Oh, my God. She fell backwards, and he pushed her into her car. And then he pushed her face into the floorboard of the front passenger seat. He ripped her bra off as she was in that. position with blood pouring from her nose and he tied her hands with her bra.

What the fuck? He then took her shoes off. That's weird. And in the book by Alan Bailey, which again, everybody read, he mentions that he thinks this is just like a vulnerability thing. Like, because he said, think about it. When you take your shoes off, you do have a weird level of vulnerability. You do.

You can't get away as fast. So he then drove her own car to his own car and transferred her into his trunk. She was screaming in the trunk, so he turned the radio up as loud as possible to drown her out. I hate that. That is my, that's my thing. I hate it. I hate it. That's like one of my 84 things.

I hate it so much. So he drove her to a secluded dirt road. He ripped all of her clothing off, completely naked, threw her in the passenger seat, and brutally raped her. When he was done, he threw her naked into the trunk again and drove off again to a place called Spinnings Cross in Kilranelay Woods. Don't know if I got that one right. I think you did.

You know what? I gave that one my best shot. So that one's a tough one. So Spinnings Cross in Kilranelay Woods. He dragged her by her hair into the passenger seat again. And another instance of like hair. Yep. Like pulling by the hair.

And this time he sodomized her and first forced her to perform oral sex on him. Oh, God. She said she was terrified because he was so unhinged and violent. Like he was a madman. She was probably thinking she was going to get murdered at any second. She said I was just waiting for him to kill me. So she stopped resisting and just complied because she was like, I'm trying to make him calm down. And she was like, I feel like me resisting is getting him angrier.

And more. It's almost like they get off more from that. Exactly. So she complied. She started just like not fighting back. It worked. He tried to literally cuddle with her. after he raped her again. What? That's so terrifying in and of itself.

Then he just, so then she says he just started talking about his life and like opening up to her. You know how like every now and then you get a glimpse of that with like one victim? That is the weirdest thing. He just laid there and like gave TMI details about everything. Like she was and she was like, in my head I was thinking he's telling me all this because he's going to kill me. Right. There's no way he's going to tell you this. Because he just told me as a wife, he has kids, told me everything. Right. So now I know so much about him. Like shit he did probably. Yeah. So she was like, awesome. So he's, so he's like cuddling with her. Then he just starts like asking her questions and she's trying not to answer him. She's being like, oh God, I just wanted him to fall asleep so I could like try to get out of here. He then all of a sudden out of nowhere gets angry again, grabs her hair and tries to drag her back into the trunk. Oh my. But she freed her hands and grabbed a can of spray paint from the trunk. Wow.

And sprayed it directly into his eyes. Fuck, yes. Except. Like, damn, girl. Nothing came out of the spray can. Wait, I'm sorry, what? Nothing came out of the spray can because you have to shake a spray can. No, no, no, no, no.

Oh, fuck. That's like the scene and scream where she keeps locking the doors, but he has the fucking thing on the outside. Yep. Fuck. Or when like Gail Weathers is like, time's up asshole or whatever she said. And then it's like click, click, click, click because it's on safety. Oh, right. You got to click the safety.

That's no good. Fuck. I mean, what a badass. To be like, just swipe that kid's brand and be like, fuck off. Just shake it really quick. It's okay. But it's like in the moment. No, you don't have many times.

What are you thinking? Fuck, fuck. Nothing came out. He was pissed. Even more. So he shoved her into the trunk Oh God puts a plastic bag over her head

Is trying to suffocate her And at the same time is using his hands to strangle her So he's fucking unhinged Like he's gone So she swings her legs over the side of the trunk To try to get out just to try to get up Oh God And he while he's strangling her with the bag over her head

Takes the trunk the door The door of the trunk And he slams it. Slamming her legs over and over again with the trunk like monster yeah she started losing consciousness she said she was trying really hard to fight back but obviously you have a fucking plastic bag over your head and you're being beaten at the same time and strangled you have been brutally raped for hours yeah you're exhausted your body is probably like so exhausted well suddenly a car appears and shines headlights on them oh my god so he throws her on the

ground naked with a bag on her head jumps in his car and flies away so two men get out of this other car I say this all the time imagine being the fucking car that rolls up on this well these two men get out oh this poor woman she probably all she wanted to see was like a fellow woman just a woman man like please I will give it to these men because they saw this like going on and they thought it was like a couple arguing and they said it looked really like violent so they were like you know what normally I wouldn't intervene, but this looks, we want to stop this before something happens. So they were pulling up there to be like, fucker, stop hitting that girl. Like they were like, and then when they pulled up and saw it, they were like, what the fuck? So she saw them and she had a bag over her head,

and it's pitch black. She sees two men coming at her and she's like, he got more men. And so she runs. Oh my God. They finally, she gets tangled in like branches and they get to her and are like screaming at her like, I swear we're not, like, we want to help you. We're not here to hurt you. Like, we want to get you to the police. Oh my God. She finally, she went with them. And they, like, they saved her. Yeah. They saved her life. And she mean, absolutely. She was seconds away from being killed. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And it was that they got her to a hospital. This is crazy. Yeah. And they were able to help her identify Larry because they were like, we saw him. And was that, was that what he was in jail for? Yeah. And this is the one that he was in jail for.

Because they also had known Larry from around. But they were like, that was him. Like, we saw him. Oh, my God. So when he was arrested for this, his wife, Mags, because he was arrested at his home. What does she say? His wife, Mags, asked what the hell was going on? Okay.

She was like, what are you being arrested for? Like, what is happening? The police said right in front of them, he looked over at her and said, I raped a girl last night. Oh, my God. To his pregnant wife. What a fuck? Like, that is.

Yes. What? Just looked at her and was like, I raped a girl last night. And then he has to go, obviously, he's arrested and leaves. And she's just sitting there with her two small children. Heavily pregnant. And she just has to bask in that? Yeah.

Well, and he gets even worse. So he later would say that the first time he raped this woman was rape. But the second location? No. He said, no, the second location, she stopped resisting. So you think that's consensual? And so she said it was consensual lovemaking the second time. Yeah, you're literally disgusting.

He's the lowest of the love. He's like, when somebody stops resisting, that's when it becomes love. Well, he was like, yeah, of course, she wanted it. No. No one does. You're disgusting. No one does. He got 15 years for this.

He only served 10. How do you only get 15 years for something that brutal? He is free. What? And was spending a lot of time in London and is thought to be living there. So the guardee are monitoring him. and preparing to possibly arrest him for Deirdre's murder now. Holy shit.

And this is actually new, like 2020 new. Is this? 2019, 2020 knew that they have been monitoring him. Did this inmate come forward pretty recently with that? I think so. And they were able to like actually get more. Yeah. They were able to go back over everything and like gather more.

Wow. So they are monitoring him. They also believe he could definitely be involved in Annie McCarrick's disappearance. Uh-huh. And Jojo Dullard and possibly like four others. Wow. So they were enhancing the CCTV footage of Deirdre from the day she went missing, like, digitally. Yeah. And they haven't released the findings, but it's looking like they might have caught Larry on that footage. Shut the fuck up. I hope so.

The final findings of the new investigation recommend Larry to be arrested for murder. And they have to, they've been turned into the director of public prosecutions, and they will be the ones to determine if there is basis to arrest him for the murder of Deirdre. Another case I need to start following. So that's where we are right now. Oh my God. I'm just waiting for it. I hope that like you know when we did the Lori Valo case and then like the next day, shit went down. Also the world is supposed to end today.

I hope everybody's good. And people were like you knew. Wow. Maybe this is another situation where we put it out into the universe and. Oh my God. Hopefully that motherfucker ends up rotting in prison. You just had me on the edge of this polka dotted scene. It's wild.

story. That poor woman. Can you imagine? One, how do you live your life after that? Like, I would never be alone again. Of course not. She was just walking to her car. Like she did every other night. Several times, she thought she was dying that night. I am on such high alert whenever I get out of my car because of this podcast. Oh, my head is on a constant swivel, baby. Like I am never. My keys are constantly in between my fingers. Oh, hell yeah. And actually, I keep my key in between one finger and then my bottle opener in between another. There you go. See, I have a little turquoise can of mace on my keychain. That you don't have to shake. So fuckers. That was the worst part of that whole thing. It killed me. It killed me. That was like a movie. It's something that you think of that you're just like, oh shit. You do have to shake a can of spray. I was so, remember I was so excited. Then you were like, wait. And I was like, fuck, I didn't even think of that. They should fix that. I don't think of it now. So I certainly wouldn't think of it in the moment. I would just be a see a spray and a.

Sprin. A can of cape pont. I would see a can of spray paint and be like, good. I'm going to spray this fucking in the face. Oh, my God. And oh, the anger. Oh, the anger. Wow.

Oh, the anger. I got to catch my breath. It's genuinely. It's a trip. This one's a trip. So my final thoughts are, like I said, I don't think this is a serial killer who is taking these women. I think Larry Murphy did a few for sure.

Yeah. especially Deirdre. I think that he probably looks good for some other ones. I wonder if he was at the live music place that night. That's what I'm wondering. That Annie was at. And I think that they're doing a very good job of keeping certain things close to the chest. And then other things releasing.

And I think they're doing a good job to gather a case to really get him. And I think specific suspects are good for like Kiara and Fiona, like the exes and the. the weird old guy. I think those definitely make sense. When it comes to Annie McCarrick, I'd be interested. I couldn't find much about like what connects Larry to her. I think the only thing would he would have had, he would have been in the area. Yeah, why can't I talk? He weren't right. But with her, I think that IRA theory is a pretty good one with her. But I mean, the other ones are, are anyone's guess really. Yeah, they really are. But it seems like this is just an area of just bad juju when it comes to this stuff. It really is. I want to know about the

pregnant Fiona Fiona Fiona Pender. Yeah. That one's an interesting one because they found the cross. That's what she was buried here on this day. With that specific date that was like important to somebody's life. I want to know more about that. I feel like that one and I mean the good thing is they're still actively looking into these cases. That trace is doing the damn thing. Trace is pretty badass. We need trace to come on over here and work on a few things. I know. They need to get on John B'nai. Once they're finished. I want them on Jean Bonae. I want that. Well, okay, so are you finished with I'm finished? That was incredible. I know that we've mentioned like Yelon a few times or Gilein. I don't know which the right one is. Really, who gives a shit? I don't care. I don't want to. I don't even

want to say your name correctly. Yeah. I don't even know if I said this to you yet. You can, well, don't stop me because I don't know. I didn't say it to anybody else on the podcast. So apparently there's this photo going around. Oh, I saw this. Okay. Yeah. So people don't. So the photo, if you haven't seen it yet, it's a photo of John Bonnet, and people think that the woman behind her is Gilin or Gilane or that bitch. Yes. And it's like, holy fuck, that is kind of weird. Except he who must not be named who I don't want to be sued by is also a pretty good suspect. There's a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot. picture is slightly compelling. You're just like, okay, that does look like her. But then again, a lot of women look like her. And also people are really good at Photoshop.

That's true. I mean, I don't think it was Photoshop. I don't think so either. But it could just be a random woman. With a short haircut. With a short haircut. Like that could actually be Chris Jenner. It could definitely be Chris Jenner. And honestly, it probably is.

Yikes. I fucking hate the Kardashians and Chris Jenner. Let me just lay that out there. She does. We just had a full-blown conversation about that before everything started. We're going to start a spin-off actually. That's my full stance on them. I think they're gross.

But I want to, I do, I feel like I just need to review the Jean-Beney ramp. Ramsey case again. The Jean-Beney Ramsey is the one case that drives me bonkers. Insane. Bonkers. Insane. Because I really think that you like, we're going to start a whole new episode about showbend. I know, right. But I think, I think the theory of like, it was possible, it was an accident and covered up to save the remaining child. I know. It definitely is a strong theory. Seems pretty strong, but, you know. I'm not saying that's what happened, though. I don't want Schmerk to, to get any ideas. No, I'm scared.

We're going to keep them off our two. We're going to stop that now. But I just wanted to mention that picture because it is a crazy picture. I know, you just don't know. It's pretty crazy. But anyway, wow with your fucking episode. And also, the other thing is I have been hearing from a lot of like our Irish listeners about this.

And some of them have been telling us different theories and stuff. And keep it coming. I love a good theory. I'm loving to hear the people that are like totally like, totally. totally involved in this area and like history and everything, let us know because it's really fun to hear. And I know I probably messed up a lot of the pronunciations in the first part. You know what? People were like, you're adorable, good try. But they were so sweet. I was like, no, we paused 87 times. No, they were really sweet about it. And but I gave it.

I gave it an even better go for you guys. You know what Ireland? We fucking love you. Yeah. We see you. And you guys have been really nice. We want to be with you someday. We do. I love Ireland. Oh my God. I want to do a UK show. We will someday. day. It'll be so great. But I just wanted to thank you guys for being nice and sharing your wisdom and all your stuff with me and keep it coming. Whatever your theories are, I'd love to hear them. Yeah, so good. So let us know. Wow, that was, I'm like hyped because that was so good. I'm so glad. Especially with that ending. Well, if you want to follow us on Instagram and let us know if Alina pronounced anything correct this episode, please do at Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter.

A Morbid podcast. And send us a Gmail with your theories, your listener tales, your spooky road stories, and even your sleep paralysis things because I actually want to do another sleep paralysis episode. Yeah, those were fun. So we'll have to do that again. Morbid podcast at gmail.com. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you go to Ireland and you try to have a good time and everybody there is like super, super nice and you love Ireland. But then there might be the serial killer going around, but then maybe there's not. And then Fiona it was so nice. And then the other Fiona was so nice. And then everybody just ends up brutally murdered and it's really messed up. It is, is Trace going to figure out what happened? I don't know. Can you figure it out, Trace? And then when you're done with that, can you come

over here. Keep it so weird that you come here. Yes, I love that. Keep it that weird. And let's get Larry in jail. Bye Larry. Bye Larry.