Morbid - The Society Gang Killing

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

On Thanksgiving Day 1934, police in Tulsa, Oklahoma found the dead body of John Gorrell Jr., a Kansas City dental student, slumped behind the wheel of his car, which had come to a stop at a downtown intersection. Gorrell had been shot in the head twice with his own gun and his wallet and other valuables were missing, leading police to conclude he had been killed in a botched robbery. Just one day later, the residents of Tulsa were shocked to learn that Gorrell hadn’t been killed by a robbery, but by his friend Phil Kennamer, and his motive wasn’t robbery.At the peak of the Great Depression, newspaper reports of violent crime were nothing new. In this case, however, the victim was the son of a prominent local physician and his killer the son of a well-known US District Court judge. The privileged backgrounds of the victim and killer were enough to captivate the residents of Tulsa, but as the strange details of the story slowly emerged in the days that followed, the case quickly grew from local sensation to national fascination. In the weeks and months that followed, countless front pages (and then some) were dedicated to the lurid details of what the press soon dubbed the “Society Gang Killing;” a story of disaffected youth who, bored with their wealth and privilege, turned to crime and violence for the sake of entertainment and excitement.Thank you to the incredible Dave White of Bring Me The Axe Podcast for Research!ReferencesBiscup, Walter. 1935. "Verdict of jury leaves punishment of Gorrell's slayer to Judge Hurst." Tulsa World, February 22: 1.Frates, Kent. 2014. "The Society Gang Killingg." This Land, July 15.Freese, Jim. 2016. Murder in the Name Of Love: The Phil Kennamer Trial. Tulsa, OK: Freese Publishing .Miami Daily News-Record. 1934. "Sheriff refuses to act on Phil Kennamer's version of case, involving associates." Miami Daily News-Record, December 13: 1.—. 1934. "Doubt cast on gang theory in Tulsa slaying." Miami Daiy News-Record, December 3: 1.Morrow, Jason. 2015. Deadly Hero: The High Society Murder that Created Hysteria in the Heartland. Tulsa, OK: Independent.Muskogee Daily Phoenix and Times-Democrat. 1935. "Counsel declares he could not tell right from wrong." Muskogee Daily Phoenix and Times-Democrat, February 15: 1.New York Times. 1934. "Death car driver a suicide in Tulsa." New York Times, December 10: 38.—. 1935. "Girl takes stand to Aid Kennamer." New York Times, February 16: 30.—. 1935. "Kennamer reveals 'extortion letter'." New York Times, January 27: 15.—. 1935. "Kennamer tells of fatal shooting." New York Times, February 19: 10.Phillips, Harmon. 1935. "Kennamer Case goes on aftwer threat of mistrial." Tulsa Tribune, February 13: 1.—. 1935. "Phil Kennamer back to jail with 25 years in prison as penalty for Gorrell killing." Tulsa Tribune, February 24: 1.—. 1935. "State blocks quick opinion by doctor that Kennamer shot youth while insane." Tulsa Tribune, February 16: 1.Tulsa Tribune. 1934. "Anderson tells plan of Kennamer Trial." Tulsa Tribune, December 15: 1.—. 1935. "New clues seen in notes from Phil Kennamer." Tulsa Tribune, January 3: 3.—. 1934. "Phil Kennamer inisists slaying his own actions." Tulsa Tribune, December 2: 5.—. 1934. "Police call Born suicide." Tulsa Tribune, December 10: 1.—. 1935. "Opposing Kennamer case legal batteries promise fiery clash of courtroom tactics." Tulsa Trribune, January 23: 7.Tulsa World. 1935. "Judge Kennamer weeps as he describes Phil's abnormalities." Tulsa World, February 16: 1. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. It's morbid in the morning. It is, which might be why we both sound like, uh. I know. I always sound like a lot grittier in the morning. Yeah, I like that grittier. Yeah, you know, I'm grittier when I wake up. I haven't even had a single coffee yet. I'm actually having a liquid IV. Oh, you really are. I'm looking at it right now. I like to start my morning with them. I'm having coffee. I'm having my one and a half coffees. When I got to Elena's, there wasn't enough coffee in the pot for me. So, like, are we even sisters? I blame John. I blame John. I blame all of you. I mean, I'll make you more.

She offered too, but I was like, it's okay. So I think this week, there wasn't, you know, there wasn't any real movement in, like, the Gabby Petito case or anything, which is what we've been kind of, like, slowly updating on as much as we can. I'm worried that that's going to fizzle out. Yeah, I'm a little worried about it. And I actually, I wanted to mention another missing person's case that I've been following like really closely. And I know Ash has too.

Yeah. If you follow us on social media, you might have seen us retweet a bunch of stuff about it. It's a man named Daniel Robinson. And he went missing on June 23rd. And it was near, he was missing near Sun Valley Parkway and Cactus Road in Buckeye, Arizona. Yeah. He's a geologist. and he has been missing now for months.

No sign of him. And his father is like... His father has been... Like, working tirelessly. Yeah, tirelessly to get his son home. And I think his vehicle was found on July 19th, but we still have not found Daniel. There's been a bunch of searches.

They've brought in, like, people from out of state. People have been driving from out of state to get there to help with the search. If you want to, like, follow this case and help out as much as you can because we're trying to get the word out. You can follow them on Twitter. The father has been updating constantly at at please help find four, the number four. So at please help find four. And you can find all of the information. He's also got a website up that's please help find Daniel.com. I can't imagine like being a parent

and having that happen to you. I can't even imagine. And just to not know. Well, that's the thing. Like there's no trace of him whatsoever. Yeah. It's driving me nuts. And I want this family to get some kind of closure or some kind of happy ending here.

I really want it. Seriously. So if you can, you know, take a look, take a look at the website. If you have Twitter, go on Twitter and see if you can follow them. See if you can either help or retweet just to get the word out. Maybe someone knows something. So that's. the one that I've been following like really closely. Same here. But I think other than that,

there really isn't a ton of true crime news happening this week. I haven't seen much other than that. I mean, there's, we won't get into it too much, but that Astro World concert is fucking disgusting. Wild. The fact that he didn't stop the show. No, I'm horrified. I'm horrified by the entire thing. We were just sitting here talking about it and the amount of people that have stopped shows and Travis Scott himself has stopped a show before because he thought someone was stealing his shoe. Yeah. But couldn't do it when people were getting trampled. Like Dave Grohl, Kurt Cobain has stopped shows. Like, come on.

It's happened all the time. Rage Against the Machine, Radiohead. They've all stopped shows. I've been at shows where they've stopped and like people were like moshing and stuff. And they've been like, yo, like calm down. Like the story so far. Yeah. I went to a concert and he made everybody.

Yeah. It's Parker Cannon made everybody like chill out. Yeah. Andrew McMahon is known for like something corporate shows and Jack's Manichin shows. It's not that it's like a moss show. something corporate or jacks manic shop. But people do. But people get like rowdy. And he and if somebody's like doing something inappropriate, they'll stop the show and be like, hey, chill out. Like this isn't what this is about. Right. So the whole thing is just really, really fucked up. But I mean,

we'll find out what was really going on in there and wowsers. But that's not what we're talking about today. What are we talking about today? Today we are talking about the kind of unsolved case of the murder of Nona Carroll Dirksmeyer. Oh, I don't know this one. This one is also called the beauty queen murder. Oh. Which I thought, yeah, I know, which I was like, I wonder why Ash hasn't seen this one. I know. I haven't, I don't think I've heard of this one. No, this one's a crazy one. I hadn't heard of it before I just like randomly came across it. Yeah. And I think, and I think it's on like date line and stuff that they called the beauty queen murder. Of course. They always have like the episode names. But this one's a crazy one because it's unsolved, but I think they know who did it. The twinkle in your eye tells me that

it's not unsolved. But I don't think it's totally unsolved. And I'm really hoping at the end of this that maybe, you know, sometimes when we do cases like this where it's like, yeah, and it's unsolved, but like I know no movement has happened, but we need something. I feel like the universe listens a little bit and something moves sometimes. Yeah, like with the Ellen Greenberg case. The Ellen Greenberg case, like that was wild. I know. And I was so happy about that. I was like, hell to the yeah. Yeah, I feel like it's happened a couple times. Like the Lori Valo case, that was fucking crazy. That was nuts.

And we still haven't even updated that. We got update that one. We really need to update that one. Yeah, we got to update you guys on that one. But it's been wild. Yeah. Just it's still, it's been wild. It's still unfolding.

But this is one of those that I'm like hoping. I'm like, hello universe. Hi. Can we get movement on this? I think it's going to happen. So let's talk about Nona, which first of all, I love the name Nona. That's really, like, ironic because I was listening to that bowling for soup song last And it's like, her name is Nona.

She's a rocker in the nose ring. I love that. That's weird. Yeah. That's because that's not a, it's a unique name. It is. And I was listening to that, like, MySpace playlist that I don't always listen to. MySpace playlist.

I love it. So Nona was born December 26th, 1985. So she is essentially your twin then. Yes. Which is another reason why this case, when I started getting into it, I was like, wow. I feel connected to her. That's like two days apart. Two days apart.

Same year and everything. It's two days apart. That's weird. Isn't that weird? She was born in Zachary, East Baton Rouge Parish, and that is in Arkansas. Okay. She grew up in Russellville, Arkansas. She was born to Paul and Carol Dirksmeier. She has four brothers and one sister. She was described as super sweet, super kind, funny, smart, very motivated to do just like great things in life. And make a difference in people's lives, especially. the lives of children. She was very into making children, you know, have the best possible, you know, childhood. She was fighting against child abuse. She was fighting against childhood sexual abuse. And she had a reason for that because although she grew up with, you know, a loving mother and, you know, siblings and a nice home and everything, she had a rough childhood because her father was sexually abusing her, her biological father. That's horrific. And what's even worse, she wasn't telling anybody.

She didn't tell anybody. Oh. Not her mother, no one. And actually, her mother, Carol, didn't find out until her biological father died when Nona was just 10 years old. Oh, my God. Which tells you how young she was when this was going on. That's what I was just going to say.

Yeah. That's insanely young. Isn't that horrific? And then you feel so horrible for her mom because it's like she's been married to this man that she has like five children with. Yeah. And she has no idea that this is happening. Then he dies, so she's probably upset.

And then she finds out that that was happening. Yeah. Like the person you were married to is a monster and you had no idea. That must be... Because I always think this thing with, you know, when we hear like couples who have been married and one of them kills the other. And it's like, every time I just like, I can't help but put myself in like there and be like, how?

Like how? Right. And how scary, how much scarier is that that you think you know someone? And you're sleeping next to a stranger. Yeah, you put all your faith in. trust in this person that you are going to spend your whole life with. And in her mind, like, he's like the protector probably. Yeah. Like it's like, well, it's like you had children with this man. And you have children that they, you're, they're supposed to protect and love and cherish as much as you do.

Yeah. And they are destroying one of them. That's horrific. Do you know if she was the only one? I'm not sure that, because there's very little about that. It's just kind of like glossed over, I think, because it's really like, I think she was so. Like, she, honestly, when she was younger, she was very shy about it, didn't want to talk about it, obviously. But then when she got older, she became one of those unique unicorns that uses that kind of trauma to help everyone else around her. That's amazing. Which is like, like, Nona truly seems like she was just like a total unicorn of a person.

She had to have been to go through that and then to like turn it around and help everybody else. Oh yeah, she's absolutely, she's stunning. I need to look at a picture. I mean, dropped out. Like, she has a smile that is so genuine and so, like, she just, like, radiates something. And it's, you know, those we always, like, everyone always jokes that, like, you know, they constantly use the same phrase on these dateline shows and stuff that, like, when she walked in the room, like, you know, she lit up a room when she walked down. Nona fits that.

She really, I just looked at a picture of her and she genuinely does. Yeah, she just seems like she's one of those people that you just want to be around. She just radiated that. She does. And she took that kind of horrific trauma that none of us can even fathom. And she turned it into a platform later. Where she wanted to help. Yeah, where she was trying to help children never have to go through that.

Or help children who were going through that. Right. Which is huge. Now, her mother Carol said she was quoted as saying about finding that out after her husband's death. it was horrible. It's such the end of my world. I just couldn't believe something like that would happen, but I knew enough to know that she was telling the truth. Of course, yeah. Which must just, oh, I can't. I can't. It must just break you as a person. It's a horrible, horrible thing. Now, Nona started dating a boy named Kevin Jones in high school. They actually knew each other

since kindergarten and were like great friends their whole life. Oh, that's really cute. Which is adorable. She actually, Kevin was the one that she, one of the only people she told about the abuse that she was suffering from her father. When they went to Dover High School together, they fell in love and started dating. I love love. Isn't that kind of adorable that they knew each other since kindergarten? It is. And just like, I'm hesitant.

I know I could see in your baby like, yeah, it's cute. I'm like, why are you shoving it down my throat? Yeah, I guess it's cute. Yeah, they knew each other a long time. It's pretty cute. In my opinion, it's cute. Now, they were immediately inseparable. I mean, it's high school relationship, you know, like you want to be around each other all

the time. That is, unless you're my high school boyfriend who didn't ever want to be around me. Yeah, he sucks. But yeah, he's the worst. If you're listening, I hope you're doing well. I didn't have a study high school boyfriend. I was just terrorizing the lives of others. I will say, though, I will say, though. I think like high school, it's such an immature time. You don't know how to be in an actual functioning relationship. No, you certainly don't. And if you do, kudos to you, because I certainly didn't know. I was a nightmare. Yeah, so everybody learns. But they were in one of those unique relationships that they wanted to hang out with each other all the time, and they were happy.

One of those unique high school relationships where you actually spend time together. Now, at the time of her death, they had been dating for almost five years. Oh, shit. They were lifers. Now, Kevin's mom actually thought that they were going to be together forever. She was like, I was ready waiting for after high school for the proposal and the wedding. Like, she loved Nona. Like, they really got along with each other's family.

This is way due picture perfect. I know. And it's kind of ruined me. I could feel it. Kevin's mom said she thought they were so good for each other. Like, they brought out the best in each other. All right. Now, she started competing in beauty competitions when she got a little older.

Right. Now, a lot of people called her like an unlikely beauty queen, but not because. she didn't look like a beauty queen. I was going to say because she's like drop dead. She was one of those that you would, you would see her on the street and be like, you are beautiful. You're beautiful. Like you're like a unicorn. And, but she was really shy. Okay. People described her as like painfully shy growing up, which is understandable. I'm sure it has a little bit to do with some trauma. Yeah, I think so. And also, I mean, I was super shy when I was little. So, and I remember when I was little. I was super, super shy, but I loved theater. So when you got me on a stage, I could be

confident and, like, speak and be like, la, la, la. Yeah. But then you get me in normal life. And I was like, and I just, like, wouldn't say anything. I know that I relate, like, everything back to Bravo, like everything in the entire universe. But we watch Vanderpump Rules. And if any of you guys do, it reminds me of Raquel. Yeah, like the beauty queen. Yeah. Like they were saying recently, like, she's, like, so painfully shy, like, can't give a speech or anything. And, like, super insecure. But then she's on stage and she's like gorgeous and like that's her escape where yeah she can talk and not be so shy well and that's it's like a lot of people myself included i used to like rag on beauty pageants and all that like a lot of people do yeah but i feel like those at least if it makes somebody feel confident and it

gives them like a you know and it seems like it does to a lot of people like if it gets you out of your shell and it makes you feel like confident and like better about yourself and better about speaking in front of people then like right on right on right on But Kevin actually said, a lot of people said that once she started these beauty competitions, it did that for her. Good. It really opened her up. She felt confident. She could see how beautiful she was.

She could see how beautiful she was inside. Like, she was starting to really, like, just blossom. You're going to fucking ruin me. Yeah, I know. This one really, like, hurt my heart. Yeah. Now, she went on to win Pope County Beauty Queen, Mistine Nibo or Nebo. Sorry, Arkansas.

It's Arkansas. Nebo. I'm not sure. I have never been to Arkansas. I hope this is another Napperville incident. I don't think so. I feel like that would, I feel like that's a once lifetime. One would hope. And when she was, at the time that she was actually killed, she was the reigning Miss Petty Jean Valley. And I looked that up for you, Arkansas. Yeah. So the pronounce names lady did say, Peugeon. Oh yeah. We did. When I looked it up at first, I said, Petitjean. Bedizel. Peugee.

Which sounds very nice. Beardjean. But then I found a true Arkansasian who said, Sausian. Who said it is Petty Jean. That's how we say it. Don't get it. So don't get it twisted.

So for you, Arkansas, Petty Jean Valley. And she was the reigning queen. She had also competed in Miss Arkansas. So she was like. Oh, shit. She was like the moving her way off. Yeah. beauty competition circuit there. Now, like I had talked about before, she made Preventing Child Abuse

her platform. Like, she talked about it. She talked about what she went through. Like, she was an open book. She just, like, laid it all out there. So vulnerable to be able to do that. That's so brave. And to use it to help other kids. And she was volunteering as a big sister at like the Big Sister Little Sister organization. Oh, I love that. And she was especially working with girls. who have dealt with sexual abuse or just abuse in general. Yeah. Now, so not only was she doing it as her platform, she's volunteering her time to do this outside of school, too.

Those people were always the best people. I used to go to the Y after school and the big brother and big sisters would come. And I remember just thinking that they were the coolest fucking kids. Like I was like, I want to be like her when I grow up. And they're doing it willingly taking the time to do that. So it's like they really are just like a different breed of people. And a lot of times I feel like it's people who have gone through like something traumatic or just like something shitty, you know. And that want to give back and want to help and want to make sure that it doesn't happen to somebody else.

Now, she also had apparently a very beautiful soprano singing voice, which that is a difficult tone because I always wanted to be a soprano and I was always an alto. She actually sang in her church choir and people said she had a voice like an angel. She looks like that. She looks like the voice that would come out. You'd be like, oh, yeah, of course. Like it's like a fairy voice. Yeah. And they said her speaking voice was also very like angelic and just like sweet and pleasant to listen to.

So again, Nona, when she walked into her room, she lit the fucking room up. Hell yeah. Like that is very clear. Now, her mother ended up getting remarried eventually, I think when she was around 19. And her stepfather, Dwayne was kind of like strict with the household rules, which is like not about. thing. It's just the way he was. Yeah. And it wasn't anything crazy. Like there was no reports of anything like, you know, that they didn't get along or abusive or anything like that. But she was just like 19 at this point. She wanted to have a little independence. So she got her own apartment. She was in

college. I could just like here like, if you don't like my rules, get your own place. She was like, all right. How much did we all hear that growing up? Of course. Now, the only people who had a key to this apartment were Nona, her mother and Kevin. Okay. Her boyfriend. Right. Now, in 2004, she and Kevin had started together at the same college because this is just a hallmark movie up till this is really sweet they went to Arkansas Tech University in Russellville so in the same hometown like cute this is just I while I was reading through it I was like wow you can't get sweeter than the more wholesome than this so far and like but you know what's going to happen but it just yeah there's some darkness but I don't and I'm stressed yeah she was a music major and at the time of her death she was a

sophomore. Now, the year after they started college together, Kevin actually transferred out. He transferred to the University of Arkansas. That was a good 90 minutes away. Okay. Yeah, 90 minutes away. And so they started having to do like the long distance thing, because even though it's 90 minutes, you're still much farther away than you were before. Yeah. They've never had to deal with distance. Right. And his parents lived in Dover, Arkansas. So they continued. Everything was fine. He would come visit. They would do that whole thing. thing. We've all either seen friends do it or we've done it ourselves. Now, December 14th, 2005, this is the same year that he has transferred out. Kevin was coming home for Christmas break,

and he immediately stops by to see No-Nan on his way home, you know, to Dover. They hung out that evening. They, you know, what? I thought you were going to be like, he comes home for Christmas break. You're like, I'm like waiting for like, what is it? The shitty part of us. No, they're hanging out that evening. They, you know, talked about their plans for the, you know, talked about their plans for following day, which they both had separate plans. Okay. She had plans that she had a couple of finals that she was going to be doing. Okay.

And she was also going to be meeting with her little sister, not her biological little sister, her little sister from the big sister program. Gotcha. And they were just going to be hanging for a little bit and then she would go to another final. Yeah. Now, Kevin was going to be taking his mother, Janice, that following night, to a holiday party because his mom was a librarian at a school and it was a faculty. Christmas party and he agreed to escort her there.

Oh, that's adorable. I thought you meant he was just like driving her but he was like going to the party. No, he was literally going to bring her to the party. That's so cute. That's so cute. Shut up. Yeah. So they had a night on the 14th. They had like a nice night together and he drove to his family's home in Dover, which was I think about 20 miles away from Nona's apartment in Russellville. Half hour. Yeah, nothing too crazy. He drove about like a little after midnight home. Okay. When they got home, when he got home, they spoke. on the phone, I think around, sorry, I had a hiccup. I was like, they spoke on the phone close to like 130. Okay. So December 15th, 2005, this is the following day. No-no was going to be home alone in the

apartment. This was the Inglewood apartment complex. And again, she had that final exam in the morning. She had one a little later that day. And in between, she would be meeting with her little sister. She never met with her little sister. Oh, no. She was also. supposed to call Kevin after her final, just so they could talk. They just wanted to like touch base. She didn't call. Never did. Now that morning at 9.04 a.m. She had sent him a text message. At 9. At 9.4 a.m. That said, good morning, Cuddle Muffin. I love you and hope you have a great day. Shut the fuck up. Yeah. Now, it was hours after she should have been done with that final and he had heard nothing. So he was starting to freak out a little bit. He said he called her multiple times.

And when it rolled around, I think the, he sent her a text message around 4.28 p.m., I believe it was, that just said, you alive. Now, immediately when we find out, you know, because we do know that Nona was murdered. Obviously. Everyone saw that text message and was like, wait a second. Yeah. Which I get. I know, because at first I actually was going to be like, what?

But then in my head, I was like the amount of times that I've said that text. I've sent it to John while he's downstairs. if he's like not getting me like something that I'm like can you just grab me that really back? I'm like, are you alive? Drew, we'll go to like Target and the line will be long and I'm like, are you alive? Are you alive? Where's my fente? It's something you definitely just send. Yeah. You know, and again, you can look at it both ways. Yeah. But I don't know why like somebody who murdered, someone would text you alive. Yeah, no, that'd be very. That would be like a very damning thing to do. I don't know that. Now, 6 PM rolls around. This is when he's going to be bringing his mom, Janice, to the holiday party. So they're in the car. They're on their way. And Kevin's telling her about the whole thing. Because again, she loves no, none. He's like, I'm worried. He's like, I'm worried. He's like, I just can't reach her. She's not reaching me back. I don't know what's going on.

Like, I'm a little worried mom. Like, I don't know if I can, like, go to this whole party and, like, be thinking about this. I feel like I need to find out what's wrong. Right. And she's like, yeah, like, figure it out. So he, on the way to the party, he calls his friend Ryan. His friend Ryan happens to be a pizza delivery guy. Okay. And he's delivers. pizzas in Nona's neighborhood in Russellville. Okay. Because again, that's their hometown. It's not like a weird thing. Right. And so he calls Ryan and he's like, you're working tonight, right? And he's like, you're delivering in that area. And he said, can you just stop by Nona's apartment and see if her car's there? Yeah. So Ryan's like, all right, cool. So Ryan calls back. And he's like, yeah, her car is here and the light is on in her apartment.

So he's like, can you knock on the door for me? And so Ryan knocks on the door. No one answers. And he's like, Kevin, no one's answering the door. But I like, the lights on her car is there. And her car is there. Yeah, that's so they're like, all right, this is weird. So Janice and Kevin are like, let's go to her apartment. We'll stop there on the way to the party and check this out. So they race to the apartment. And Kevin and Ryan tried to open the front door. They knocked again, nothing. And they try to pry it open. Nothing. So it's locked. So they go around the back and she has a sliding glass door. Doesn't Kevin have a key though? Now, he does. I'm glad you thought of that, but he didn't bring it with him. It was at home. Oh, okay. Which he was like, I just didn't think I would need that key. Yeah. I wasn't planning to stop by her house.

Like, I didn't plan to see her that night. I was going to the party with my mom and coming home. Yeah. So he said the key was at my house. I just didn't have it. Okay. So they went to the back to the glass sliding door. Now, she was known, I guess, for using that burglar bar on the glass sliding door so you can't open it.

Yep, we've always had one of those. Yeah. Hell yeah, get a burglar bar. They're amazing. They're at least another step that somebody has to take to get into your house. And it's really hard to open the door at one of those. Yeah. Like you would have to smash the window.

But she always had it in there and they look and it's not in there. But the door is locked. But the burglar bar just isn't there. The door is locked and the burglar bar is not there. Which is weird because she always puts the burglar bar there. And if she's alone, if she's home alone, she's definitely putting it there and locking the door. Right. So they were like, this is weird.

they were able to pry open the glass door because again without a burglar bar they were able to do it spooky when they ran in there they saw some blood on the venetian blinds as they went into the sliding glass door oh no when they walked into the living room they immediately saw nona nude only wearing white socks face down in a puddle of her own blood oh no now according to them Kevin ran to her grabbed her immediately, like hugged her to him and was like sobbing. Yeah. And trying to wake her up. That's his girlfriend of five years.

Yeah. And his mom immediately called 911. Okay. So the police get there and she, Nona is already dead. She was 19 years old. Now when they got there, they saw, like I said, she was lying face down in a pool of blood. Her eyes were closed.

Her face was covered in blood. She only had the white socks on. That's it. That's like very eerie. strange. Very strange. Right. And were there any clothes like in sight? I don't think so, but they didn't put it in the reports.

Okay. Now she was stout, which we'll talk about, I mean, the police work here was not a plus, as we'll find out. Good. Awesome. Yeah, she was stabbed in the neck with several stabs as well on her shoulder. Now, it's the same shoulder that she was stabbed in the neck, the same side. And they said, likely she was trying to defend herself by. bringing her shoulder up to protect her neck, which is what you would do.

Right. And so the person was stabbing her shoulder. Oh. Which is so, like, rage-filled. Um, she had also been viciously beaten in the head. Oh. Viciously. And they believe the murder weapon they know was definitely the very heavy base of a lamp that

they used. A lamp. Yeah. And it was broken in three pieces next door. Are you serious? Yes. In the bottom of this lamp, um, the crime scene photo show, it's like, like a heavy metal lamp and the bottom is one of those thick heavy base square base yeah like one of

those like don't like almost like half dome half sphere bases yep yep yeah oh my god yeah so they believe that's what was used there was blood stains on the light bulb um and on the base of the lamp the light bulb will become kind of important later weirdly because immediately when you see that she was nude you think you would think you got your mind is automatically going to go what she's sexually assaulted or raped. There was no sign of rape or sexual assault and no sign of a break-in. Okay. So that's strange. And what's even stranger is there was a condom wrapper found on the table next to her. Like an opened and empty condom wrapper. Which just the rapper, like no condo. Which they didn't find the actual condom. And which you can look at it in a million

in different ways. You can look at it as somebody did rape her or tried to rape her with a condom. Yep. You can also look at it as, was that like from another day? Was that Kevin's? Yeah. You can also look at it was, is this another guy? Yeah. She's in college. Yeah. Maybe it happens. But so they immediately looked at that. They also found her cell phone near her body and there was, the battery was taken out. The battery? Yeah. And I found then a couple of sources. but I think that was one of those things that they, like, didn't release right away, which is strange. Like I said, there was blood on the Venetian blinds by the sliding glass door, which also, like I said, had the burglar bar missing. Yeah.

Again, she never didn't have that in there. So that was weird. And do you know if they, like, ever found the burglar bar? I think it was in the house. It just wasn't put in the, which is weird. This is even worse. There was no samples of that blood taken on the Venetian blinds. They just, like, didn't feel like.

like it? The door and the blinds were not dusted for prints. The investigators didn't even go to the upstairs of her apartment. The door wasn't dusted for prints? Nope. And they didn't take any footprint or shoe print evidence either. So what did they do there? I think the front door was maybe dusted, but the sliding glass door was not. Why would you not just do both entryways? And why would you not go upstairs? What if there's more shit upstairs? And also, um, so the burglar bar isn't in the sliding glass door. There's blood on the Venetian blinds on the glass door. There's blood on the venetian blinds on the glass door. Yeah, like somebody probably left through that door. It's pretty clear that he left through that door. So maybe take that? But it was locked? But it was locked. Do you think, like, how would he would have been

able to lock it from the outside? I don't know. Huh. But I mean, then again, he, somebody pried it right open. Yeah. Like, they pried it open when they got there. So who knows if it was even like properly locked. Right. Exactly. Like it could have maybe it was jammed. Maybe they just were in a panic and they couldn't open it. They were able to open it. So. Wow. Yeah. So they didn't take any of that blood and there's, you know, because they had a pretty good idea of who they thought did it. So they didn't want to do the full court press here. So they think it's Kevin.

Of course. Because the boyfriend did it. Of course. Because when they walked in, he's covered in her blood, obviously. But he said, I was holding her. I ran and I grabbed her. Like that's why I'm covered in her blood. And they were like, okay, that's convenient.

That's convenient that you covered yourself in her blood. So it is. Which 100% I can see that. But on the same token, if Drew, God forbid, was like brutally murdered, I would 100% go over to his body and pick him up and like hold him. It reminds me of the Ellen Greenberg situation where I would 100% do that. Because I think when we posted the Ellen Greenberg episode, I remember somebody was like maybe the person just like didn't want to go touch her. her. Like maybe her husband didn't want to go touch her fiance. Her fiance didn't want to perform, like, asked like, do I have to? Yeah. And I think somebody had commented that and I was like, yeah, no. I was like, if you love someone, that's not, you're not thinking of like, you gross. That's not at all a thought in your head if you would truly love someone. And I feel like the thought of like, oh, I could contaminate this crime scene. It just wouldn't even go in my mind. Because you're not thinking rationally in that moment. You're just thinking, I love you, what the fuck. It must be tunnel vision of just I need to help the person I love. I don't.

I'm not thinking of the investigation. I'm not thinking of anything. And whether it's realistic or not, like, obviously, I'm sure when they walked in, she was very clearly dead. But I'm sure he was thinking, like, can I resuscitate her? Like, can I? And he, and he says it later. I've never seen a dead before. I didn't know she was dead. I don't know, like, and I didn't want her to be. Like, that's, like, I was hoping she wasn't. How many times in the movies have we seen people, like, resuscitate a dead body? And they're like, please, come back, come back. Yeah, exactly. That's horrible and it happens all the time. It is. So I do understand that they're like, for sure. That's very convenient that he rubbed in the blood all over himself.

And on the same token, absolutely. I can see that. Yeah. And that's like, but I can totally see the other side. So here I get it. Why they immediately were like, and of course they're going to zone in on the boyfriend. You got to. But like you also got to dust for fingerprints everywhere you can. Exactly. That's the thing. It's like they had good thoughts and terrible thoughts. So he also apparently one of the things that they kept pointing to was that I don't know. know why he would have said this. He told the cops that he watched a lot of law and order. Okay, scene. Which I don't know if that was like him being like, if they said like, oh, we need to bring you to the station to talk to you. And he's like, yeah, I watch a lot of a law and order. I know how this works. You know, like, I wonder if that's, like, maybe that's his way to get through with. Like, maybe it was just like, you know, I know what needs to happen next. Like, but I don't know. And again, I get why they're like, why the fuck would you tell me that? Like, that's, especially because later we're going to see that they're kind of looking at this crime scene as like a state.

scenario. So if he's saying that they already have in their heads, this is stage, well, you watch a law and order. You must know how to make this look like somebody else. So there's like everyone in their mom. Of course. Now, obviously, because he's the boyfriend, because of these like kind of weird comments and the fact that he's covered himself in her blood, he's prime suspect, number one. And also because he has a key to the apartment. Okay. But he didn't even have it with him that day. He had it with him that day. It's at his house. Yeah, yeah. He was on the time that day. I meant like when he went there. But she was killed way before they got there. I know. Yeah, you're right. So what was he doing the rest of the day? I don't know. And maybe he had the key. I just have this feeling that it wasn't him. I don't want it to be him for sure. Now, when the police and the other thing that they said was when they got there, it almost looked like he wanted to show them that he was covered in her blood, which to me says him just being like, hello, the reason I'm covered in her blood is because I grabbed her like, the high. Like, this is happening.

You know, like, I don't think that's him being like, hello, I've bathed myself in the blood of my murder victim. Like, I don't think that's what he was doing. No. I think he was like, hi, guys, I'm covered in her blood and I'm sorry, I grabbed her because I love her. Like, I think that was more what I would take from that. Yeah, exactly.

But they were like, yeah, it was weird that he just decided to show us. Now, he spent several hours in interrogation at the police station that night, obviously. he never once asked for a lawyer, which I was like, Kevin asked for a lawyer. Yeah, it's like, come on, man. But I think he was like, I'm innocent. Yeah. I'm innocent. He was saying I'm innocent. I don't need a lawyer. Now, when asked directly, did you kill Nona? He said he would he would kill himself before he ever hurt her. Oh. Yeah. He said I would never hurt a hair on her head. Okay. Now, obviously, yes, of course. But obviously, we have heard actual murderers say that about people that they supposedly love. So it's a very hard one. You want to believe them, but you got to,

you got to be a little suss. I literally have a shirt that says the husband did it. Exactly. You got to be suss. Right. That's all. You just got to just put the antenna up a little bit. Now, they obviously, you know, whenever they do this thing, they'll walk out of the interrogation room, leave the camera running and watch how they act. Yeah, see if you do like good little, or anything like Jodi areas. We just got to see what you're doing in there when you're all by yourself. Right. Because some people will just confess into the empty room. At Robert Durst.

At Robert Durst. At the bathroom. And some people just act really weird at Jody Arias. Yeah. Now, Jones ended up, like, he was clearly upset. And at one point, he just is sitting in a chair and he just, like, turns to the side and starts violently punching the back of the chair. Like over and over and over and then stops. And it's like, which I can't.

That to me isn't like, well, he's obviously immersed. I get it that if they're looking at him as a violent person because of this, which he has no history of being a violent person. Okay. If they're looking at it like he did this, then sure, that behavior is like concerning. But also the love of his life just died and he's sitting in an interrogation room. Yeah, there's a lot of emotions happening here. He's probably feeling like very frustrated with life at the moment. And we, if you look up the interrogation, the interviews, you can see, I feel like I always look at

at these things when somebody is being accused of something, if it's me being accused of something I truly did not do, I get such anxiety and I will like get very worked up to be like, no, no, no, no, I didn't do that. Like, you know, like, you just are like, because you just want somebody to know, like, no, I, if I could show you that I didn't do this. Right. And whenever I see an interrogation, somebody just being like, no, I didn't do this. When they're being accused of something, I'm like, I don't know. That's weird.

Too calm. Too calm. And Kevin, they're telling him. one point. They're doing the good cop, bad cop thing where one of them is like, listen, you failed all the tests. We know you did it. Somebody saw you do it. The Google Earth car caught you on camera doing it. Like it's literally like them telling him like everybody knows you did it. To break him. It's on TMZ that you did it. Like they'll tell him everything. Yeah. And he is sitting and he's going, he's literally, you can tell he's like, holy shit. Like this is happening. And he keeps being like,

guys, no. Like please talk to everybody. Talk to everybody. Everybody. Everybody can tell you where I was. Like, he's literally like panic. Panic mode. And it's not panic mode like I'm caught. It's panic mode like, oh my God, they're going to West Memphis three me and hello, it's Arkansas. I was going to say the same place. And he keeps saying, he's like, guys, I didn't do it. I promise. And he keeps saying like, what can I do to show you? I didn't do it. What can I do? Like, what can I do? Tell me what to do. Right. He's desperate. He's begging them. Like, please let me prove this to you. Talk to everybody. I didn't do this. So to me, right. there. I was like, he didn't do it. I don't feel like he did it. Yeah. And they took photos of his hands and stuff. There wasn't a mark on him and his arms or anything. And they said, Nona fought her attacker. Yeah. So there would be, there was like a fight. I feel like there would be a scratch or something. Now, they did interview about like 50 different people of interest that week. Like anybody that was

nearby, like not, you know, suspects, but just people around that they had to clear. Right. They also spoke with some men who Nona was also. So seeing. Okay. Because she was seeing other men. Okay. Now, Kevin did not know this. And they were able to rule these men out.

Because I think they were just like casual college people. Yeah. You know, like they weren't. Yeah. Now. It's college. Yeah. And it's like, and as we'll see, he didn't know until after.

So that's not. It doesn't seem to be. Now, they interviewed her stepfather, Dwayne as well, of course. Right. because he's another man in her life and this is a very... He was known to be, like, strict of tour and all that. And just any men around her are going to be interviewed. He had an alibi.

He was shopping. He provided receipts. Okay. One day before Nona's funeral, Kevin actually, like, went to the Russellville Police Department on his own volition. They had talked to him earlier and said, you know, we would like to talk to you again. Yeah. So if you could come at some point.

So he showed up that, like, right away. He was like, all right, let's get this done. Like, I'm ready. Let's go. And he volunteered to come down and he said, quote, I'll do anything that you guys want me to do. I'll do a DNA test. I'll do anything. Which is like pretty like, yeah, like if he's going to give his DNA, I mean.

I mean, that's, that tells me something at least. I mean, but at the same time, people have committed crimes and been like, take my DNA. Because as we've talked about before, killers are narcissists and they don't think that anybody is smarter than them and they think they can get away with it. So sure, take my DNA because I'm magical and you won't be able to catch me still. magical. Yeah, like, I didn't leave any DNA so you can take it. Yeah.

Like, they think that. But this is when he agreed to take a lie detector test as well. And the polygraph examiner said that he failed it miserably. Oh. Yeah. Okay, but here's the thing. At first I was like, oh, no. But then I'm like, that's not even like admissible.

Like, it doesn't matter one way or the other, really. As we've said before, lie detector tests are about as reliable as a hot dog in a trench coat. So, okay. Because the thing is, obviously he's probably fucking panicked. It has, like, so much more to do with, like, your internal feelings than it does with, like, if you're, like, I could fail one of those easily, I'm sure. It's one of those things that when it's paired with, like, a hundred other guilty things, you're like, sure, that's weird. Right. Like, if he was found with the knife and his hand and, like, his DNA was everywhere.

Sure. And then he failed it. There was CCTV footage of him going into the place and coming out at the exact. exact time that she was killed. Yeah. And then they were also like, Andy failed a polygraph. I'd be like, wow, damning. Damning evidence. For sure. But with this, I'm like, he's a 19 year old kid who's really stressed and just lost his girlfriend of five years. Yeah. And is now being blamed for it. Right. Yeah. When it really probably fail it as well. Well, and to me so far, it definitely doesn't seem like he did this. Well, and what Kevin said was, quote, the man who gave it to me told me that he had not

seen anybody fail a test worse in his 28 years of giving lie detector tests. And they said there was no doubt in their mind that he murdered her, told him that there's no doubt in our minds that you did this. It's on video. And they're like, we know you killed her. We know you did it. Just admit it. Everybody knows it. And they were like, her parents know it. Everyone knows it. We all do. And he's literally like, what do you do? Like he was just breaking down. But the funny story about the polygraph test. The guy who gave the exam wasn't a certified polygraph examiner. Like, come on.

So funny. So so far, we haven't swept for fingerprints in the places where there was literal blood, like blood smears. And now we've told him that he failed to polygraph miserably, but the guy giving the polygraph isn't even a polygraph giver. Yeah, definitely. He's not certified at least. Come on.

And I feel like at the very least. when you're giving polygraph exams, you should maybe be certified. I don't know. That feels right to me. I feel like anytime you're doing any job, like you have to have some qualifications or certifications. And especially if like, I mean, are we, we, we're going to take your word. But like you're doing the same, like, you're in the same spot that I could be giving the polygraph test and be like, ooh, it's spiked. That means lie. Like, what? What does he even know for sure? Yeah. Maybe he actually did really well on it. Yeah, maybe it was the exact opposite. Now, what's really sad is that. this day, this was the day before

known as funeral, it was her visitation hours. Oh, like a week? Yeah. Kevin had helped her family gather clothing for it, had helped them plan it, like gone through the whole thing. When he showed up at the police station that day, they told him we'll have

you out in time for the visitation. Yeah. They promised him. He was there for about seven hours talking to them. They got no more information that they could use. It wasn't a productive, but the only thing that they can that was productive on their end was he failed the polygraph giving him a fake polygraph but they couldn't keep him they couldn't arrest him and they got no more evidence that would

point to him but i bet he didn't know that he could leave he probably had no idea that he could because if i like went i mean like before like we got into all of us had i been in that position i'd be like oh fuck i can't leave yeah and they're probably making it seem that way because that's their job too and then it's and then you don't want to look guilty so you don't want to be like i want to get out of here because then you're like are they going to think i'm not And then they're going to tell people I'm not cooperating. So it's a big long cycle of just like, yeah. So he was there for seven hours.

He missed the visitation. I knew you were going to say that. And of course, everyone assumed he missed it because he was guilty. Right. That looks so shady. That looks so shady. And I guarantee you that the police knew that in the back of their minds. And they were like, let's keep him here.

This is going to fit our fucking narrative. Exactly. And this is going to get the community on our side. And here it is. Yeah, that's shitty. And her stepfather even said, quote, and all of a sudden it kind of like a light bulb going off in my head. I said, you know, wouldn't it be funny if it's the boyfriend? Oh. Which like, weird choice of words. But like, I understand that you're like just spewing what was going on in your head. Right. And yeah, I get why they were suddenly like, huh, wait a second. Well, and I mean, you're never even like thinking it's possible that your child is going to get murdered. No. So obviously, like that happens. and you're like, wow, anything can happen.

Yeah. Like you're not. And if they're really honing in on him. Right. And then he misses the visitation and it's because he's being interrogated. Right. And then on top of it, the police that night went to her parents the night before her funeral and told them he did it. He's the killer.

Like told, like we're like, he is it. We know he's it. You would think also that like maybe they could wait until like a couple days after the funeral. Yeah, just like give him a moment. give them a second to like more than one thing and not everything. Yeah. And obviously they were horrified. Yeah. And they are being told a story that makes sense. And I will get into that right now. But they also didn't want him at the funeral obviously because of this, which I totally understand. I would be the exact same way. And they told her parents something that made sense, like a story that

went along with it. They said they believe that he did this because he came into the apartment. He had a He surprised her in the apartment, saw the condom wrapper on the table, and lost his shit when he assumed that it was because she was cheating with someone else. They said it was a total passion, like, rage killing, and then that he staged the entire scene. Because he watches so much law and order. Exactly. And then he set it up. He set up the timeline. So he had calls.

He had texts. He had alibis to make sure he was places during, he was in different places during the day that he could be like, nope, I was. here, I was there. This person saw me, that person saw me. Right. And then he made it so that his mother and friend were with him when he, quote, unquote, found the body. Oh, yeah. When you put it that way, it doesn't look good. That's a pretty plausible story that they told these people. I totally understand why they were like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Because it makes sense to me. It does, yeah. But the problem with that is like you need evidence to back that story. And you don't have any. That's a crazy tale that you just told, do you have anything to back it up? Right. No? Okay. Because that's all circumstantial.

We can make that, you could say that about anybody. You can make up a story about why anybody kills anybody. Right. And also he's like a 19 year old kid. Like, of course he's bebop and all over the place. Yeah. It's just, it works both ways. You can see it. That story makes perfect sense. But then you can explain it away. You need evidence to back it up. And I just don't see enough evidence to tell me that that's what happened here. He also doesn't have a history of violence. He was never violent to her. Yeah. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. But people snap. There's also that. Yeah, there's a whole fucking TV show. It really is one of those things that exactly. There's one of things that you got and I know I play devil's advocate a lot, but you have to. You can't just like,

I think that's good detective work personally. It's like you can't just look at one set of things and be like, yeah, that makes the most sense. So I'm going to go with it. Right. And that's what they're doing here. You got to pull apart all the threads. And so they said that at the funeral, Kevin sat, you know, away from the family because the family said, I don't want him sitting with us. Oh, no. Which is really sad, but totally understandable again. And he sat and just sobbed the whole time. And he said, nothing at that point mattered to me because I was hollow.

All I could think about were the times that she and I spent together and that I'd never get to spend another time with her like that again. And Carol, Nona's mother said she couldn't even look at him. Like, just was horrified and going through the grief of this funeral. what a horrible time for everybody. Seriously. In every way imaginable. In such different ways. Yeah.

So like we said, the police now think they know what happened. This is what the narrative they are telling. But they haven't even arrested him yet. No. And they held a press conference. And they said they had narrowed everybody down and they just had one person of interest who had not been ruled out yet. But they wouldn't name him. Okay.

But they had already told the family that they thought it was Kevin. It's already gotten out. Everyone around town knows it's Kevin. Right. That's who they're talking about. And they said they believed that his whole show of emotion at the scene was just him trying to actually like fuck with the scene. They said, quote, in the press conference, quote, or not in the press conference later,

they said this. Quote, he meticulously articulated everything to the nth degree so that he could come back and say anything that you find is accountable because I went in and grabbed the body and Now look at me. Cross-contamination. Okay. And Chief Officer Bacon was the one who said that. Which, yeah. They're not wrong.

Because again, we said it earlier. It's a really convenient way to go, uh-oh. Right. It's all over me because I hugged her. Right. But then like we said on the same token, I would do the exact same thing. So very interesting. Yeah.

It's interesting because it definitely, if I was watching this and hearing this, I would probably be believing this as well. Me too. So Kevin's guilty to them. This is it. And then it took it a step further for them because his fingerprint was found on the light bulb of the lamp that was used to kill her. And it was in blood. Oh, okay. Because it was blood all over the light bulb.

Which the blood becomes a very big part of this case. And I will get into it, I promise. Okay. But on the other side, he was dating Nona. He was in that apartment a lot. Yeah. His fingerprint would be probably maybe on a light bulb or something like that if he changed it. Yeah.

But it's in the blood. If it's in the blood, that changes things. Right. Because that's actually what I was, because I was going to say, well, wait a second. It's in the blood. Yeah. There was blood involved in it. So that changed that a lot.

Now, Kevin said he thought they were going to get married. He was ready to stay with her forever. He had no problems. He was not angry. He was, they were not fighting. to him the long-distance relationship wasn't a problem when asked about the condom wrapper because of course while he's saying all this they're like well what about that condom wrapper if you guys were so happy what is that about right and he said she must have been raped because that's not a condom that I use and

she he was like that's all I can think of that's not mine and he said I'm innocent I didn't do this I didn't and he said I wouldn't use that condom that's not mine she had to have been sexually assaulted. That's the only thing he could see here. That's the only reason, like when they kept asking him, that's all he could come up with for answer. And just because, like, because you were saying earlier that they didn't find evidence that she was raped.

Yeah, and we're going to get into that too because the medical examiner kind of explains it, but there is no physical evidence at the scene to say that she was raped. Like semen or something like that. No semen, but if somebody used a condom, that takes care of that. Right. And two, you often see, you know, like signs of violence and, you know, assault. Like abrasions or something. You can see physical things that will point to a struggle and a violent sexual assault.

Right. But not always. Well, and also, she was beat over the head with something. She could have been unconscious. Exactly. And if she was unconscious, there's no struggle. It's a different situation. It's hard.

It's like really hard. Yeah. So, and as we'll see, the medical examiner said, he didn't find evidence that you was raped, but he would not say she wasn't. So he couldn't technically rule it out. So he said, I'm not going to say she wasn't. Okay. So more than three months after, I know, after her murder, March 31st, 2006, they arrested Kevin Jones. Oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. So he did go on trial for her murder. Wow. I was not expecting that because I feel like they didn't have enough. Ah, they really didn't. So, well, spoiler alert. They did not. And like I said, it was really the,

thing they were able to get him on is that bloody fingerprint. And what we find out is that there was a fingerprint and a palm, like partial palm print on that light bulb. Now, and they really harped on that in court. And you said partial. Yeah, partial palm print. Okay. Now, the defense immediately requested a change of venue because the rumors, the chitter chatter, the angry mob. The West Memphis three of it all. The West Memphis three of it all. They were like, he was, they were like, He's never going to get a fair trial. We got to move. And it was granted.

So his trial... Sometimes I feel like that is 100% necessary. Because if they're guilty, they'll be guilty 30 miles away too. Exactly. If you have the evidence to prove it, you can prove it over there too. And they moved him 30 miles away. Okay. Now, so there was a witness that they brought in, and it was a plumber.

And now, that plumber was able to say that Kevin Jones was at his parents' home in Dover around 10.30 a.m. the morning of the murder. He saw him there. He can confirm. And what time do they think that Nona was murdered? They believe she was murdered between 10.30 a.m. and possibly 1 p.m. So he has at least that. There's a little bit of a, he has that.

So the prosecution was like, okay, well, then this is what happened. He went to Nona's apartment to kill her. He used her, he surprised her by using her key. Yeah. And that's, or he didn't, excuse me, he didn't go there to kill her. He went there to surprise her, surprised her with the key, saw the condom wrapper. rapper and went berserk after you saw him at 1030 p a.m. It is a believable story.

Which could have been. Now, interestingly, his cell phone was turned off for an hour and a half between the time of 1030 and noon. Okay. And they think this is pretty right when it could have happened. That is really fucking weird. But did it die? Did it die? And what is this 2005?

Yeah. That's like a fucking Motorola flip phone. It's not like you have like a universal charger everywhere. Well, it's like the ones where you have to like take the battery off. Yeah, exactly. It's, it could go either way. Yeah. And it's like it's not like there was like car.

I mean, there were car chargers, but like they weren't as frequent as they are now. Well, in the midst of a murder trial? Yeah. Yeah, that's strange. That's not good. That's weird. That's not great. Because it looks like you might have turned that phone off.

So you wouldn't be triangulated where you were. Right. And you watch a lot of law and order. Why the fuck did you ever say that? Why'd you say that? Oh, man. But again, or it could be there you've found out. See, that's like the problem with this.

It's all. Yeah, like it's all explainable, but it also all works. Yeah, it could look bad for him. But none of it is a smoking gun that you're like, oh, that's the one except the fingerprints. I feel like I. Yeah, the fingerprints are weird. Which we'll get into. I can't imagine.

Like, I know a lot of times people are like, like, really want to get called for like jury duty on like a trial like this. This would be a tough one. Like a crazy trial. I would not want to be on this trial. Yeah. Because I literally wouldn't know what to do. do. Because it must be hard because you're like, yeah, this stuff doesn't look great for you. Yeah. But like, does it say you're a murderer? Right. That's hard. But then like to have that on your

personal conscience, like this is my decision whether or not this guy goes to jail for the rest of his life because maybe he's a murderer, but then maybe he's not. Yeah, do, did I put an innocent guy in prison for the rest of his life or did I free a murderer? Yeah, like I don't. Did one of those things happen or did I get it right? I don't know who's listening who like decides, but like I'm, it ain't me. It ain't me. I don't want to be on the jury for anything like this. Well, and now, like, they've looked at the phone records for the day. Like, that whole day has been pulled apart by this point, obviously, because we're at the trial now. Right. And they did reveal during the trial. They said, I know you said that you called her a bunch of times on that day. But the phone records indicate that you didn't start calling her

until 4.10 p.m. Oh. And they said, and then you're saying by 6 p.m., you were like, out of your mind going crazy. Now, they were like, that's a small amount of time for her not to answer her phone for you to lose your shit. But what about them texting? Because she had texted him that morning. Yeah. So they're talking about like phone calls. Phone calls.

Because he did say I called her. Yeah. To see. Or I tried to, or maybe he said I tried to contact her and they took that as. Yeah, exactly. They could spin it. But to me, that doesn't definitely say he's a murderer. But it also is like, did you lie?

Or did you exaggerate? Or did they twist what you said? Did you get, like, are you really possessive and toxic that you got that angry, like, or not angry, but you got that upset and, like, stressed out. Within, like, two hours of, like, two hours of not speaking to her? But then again, think of, like, how, like, chaotic you are at, like, 19 in a relationship. Oh, that's the other thing. Like, 19-year-old Elena was chaotic in my relationship, for sure.

Same. Like, for sure. Which is why I'm not married to the person I was with at 19. I mean, I didn't even have a steady boyfriend. And, like, if I was, like, talking to someone. and they didn't answer, I'd be like, oh my God, like they're cheating. Oh, I was a chaotic mess in my relationship at 19 years old. But everybody is.

I can't even, like, you have to look at it that way too. It's hard to look at it from like a 35 year old who's like married. And I'm like, why are you getting that upset? Because you think everything is like a bigger deal when you're younger and like you think that you're going to like, like he said he thought he was going to marry her. And then he's 19. So he's probably freaking the fuck out. Of course.

And when she's not answering. Of course. And then. But then. But at the same time. time, sure, you could look at it. Like, wow, it's really possessive and like really over the top. Right. Everything in this case got two sides. I could explain away, but I could also see. Very rarely do I come across a case where I can devil's advocate so hard the entire time. No, it's true. But I just have to. And it makes me feel crazy. I feel crazy right now. Like I can't just sit on one side of it because it just doesn't make sense to.

Because it's not black and white at all. No. Now, Dr. Charles Cox was the medical examiner who examined Nona. And he said she was stabbed in the neck with defense stabs on her neck and shoulder. She had a massive wound on her head. He said her killer had, quote, fractured her skull, pushing bone inward nearly three-eighth of an inch, damaging her brain and bruising her face. I feel like whenever we talk about stuff like that, I feel it. Yeah. Like that was when you see the crime scene photo of that lamp, it was a heavy base of a lamp.

Oh, my God. Yeah. He called it a devastating injury and said she would have very likely not woken up after that, Which hopefully is like a saving grace there. Yeah. He also testified that there were direct blows to her face, possibly by fists. Oh. And there was evidence that she was strangled with such force that her hyoid bone was broken

and blood vessels were broken in her eyes. But that wasn't how she was killed. Is that a patiquial hemorrhage? Yeah, a little patikial hemorrhage because it's like the force of the strangling. And he said, again, that there was no physical evidence of rape. but he did not rule it out. And he believed that she was killed between 10.30 a.m. and 1 p.m. 10 and 1.

Her body showed a limited amount of rigor mortis. And he said levidity visible on both sides of her body, front and back, which would indicate that she was moved from a prone position to one where she was on her backside at least six hours after she died. Oh. So this, like, really throws things for kind of a loose. Yeah, because when she was found, she was found face down. Face down. But then for some point after she had died, she was definitely lying on her back.

Because so there was lividity in her belly and on her back. Which makes me wonder if she was raped. Well, I was just going to say. Where she flipped over where a sexual assault occurred because she was unconscious. Right. And then flipped back over. Yeah. I don't know.

That's actually one of the first things that came to my brain when you said that. I mean, I don't know. This is me totally speculating. Of course. It's a very strange pattern. Like the lividity, lividity to me is like unbelievably fascinating because it tells such a story. Yeah.

And it can also confuse the fuck out of you. Like the smiley face killers, all the different lividities in there. Oh, it throws you for a loop. And then people can like make bodies colder and the levidity changes color, which can throw the time of death off and throw how long they've been in that position off. The other interesting thing to me is that they didn't look for anything upstairs. Because what if she had been upstairs for a period of time and then brought back downstairs? Yeah, you just don't know.

Because nobody looked upstairs. Yeah. They seemed like they were very tunnel-visioned onto this small area where her body was found. Yeah. It's weird. And what's horrific, too, is that the medical examiner testified that the blows to the back of the head were likely inflicted while she was lying face down. So she was lying helpless getting brutalized in the back of the head. Yeah.

Apparently, she also received a text to her phone at 11.04 a.m. one she did not answer, which tells you she could have been. She may have already been dead. And she never responded to it. It was never released. I don't know who that text was from. I don't know what it said. I wonder if it was from Kevin and like they didn't release it for a reason. I don't know. But during the same testimony, Kevin's grandmother also testified that day that he was with her during the murder. So she said he couldn't have done it. I was with him. I can testify to that. Do they have anything to show that they're together now? I don't think they have anything. It's just her word. Because like, I love you, grandma.

But I don't know that to be true. Your grandma is going to lie for you. Yeah, always. Like, of course. That's what grandma's do. Like, are you even a grandma if you wouldn't lie for your grandchild? Like, come on. Are you grandma?

Are you grandma? Are you there? Grandma? It's me grandma. But, you know, it's grandma saying then she was with it. I'm just saying. Yeah. But the prosecutor.

then brought forth the blood evidence. Okay, yeah. So let's get into this shit. Yeah, this is where it gets a little like, at the end of this evidence, you think it's going to be like, ooh, this is going to tell me things. No, at the end of it, you're like, all right, so you got nothing. Well, you got nothing either way. Okay, so what?

So it was really the texture of the blood that they were really focused on, where the palm print was. The texture of the blood? Yes. Okay. Everyone's going crazy talking about the texture of this blood. So most of the blood was really. Most of the blood was wet at the crime scene when she was found.

The exception was on the light bulb, which obviously was part of the murder weapon. Parts of that were actually pretty dry and tacky. Okay. Now, the description of tacky was really harped on by the investigators because they said they didn't actually touch the blood, because obviously they're not going to stick their fingers into a palm print and just touch blood. Ruin it. But they said it was, so they couldn't feel that it was tacky, but they said it looked tacky. Like it didn't look totally dry.

It didn't look totally wet. I don't really feel like you can say something's tacky if you haven't touched it. Yeah. So basically they were saying it didn't look completely dried over and it didn't look completely wet. It looked somewhere in between. Okay. Sorry. But that could mean different things to different people.

Of course. Now, if the blood was dry, then that would prove that it had time to harden with the print in it. Right. So that would mean Kevin definitely left it while murdering Nona before the police were called. If it had time to dry with that palm print in it, then he had made that when it was very wet and then it had hours to dry. But it wasn't. So, but then again, if the blood was still wet when the police arrived, it meant that he could have been telling the truth. And maybe he just happened to touch it while he was grabbing her body. Right. It was put there while it was still

wet. Right. And, you know, they call them 911, all that. Right, right, right. But the evidence reported that the blood on the bulb was tacky, which means it had started to dry. So we're still in a spot where it's like, that doesn't really tell us anything because it hasn't totally dried and it hasn't stayed totally wet. So we're literally in limbo with this because he could have done it while he was murdering her or he could have picked it up and moved it. Literally could go either way because we are in the middle. Right. We are not totally dry. We are not totally wet. Right. Now the prosecutors followed this up by saying, actually, a week after it was found, that blood on that light bulb was still tacky. It hadn't completely dried. So they said, so we don't know if when it was found, it was at its full, like the full state. Like it wasn't going to go any drier than that. And the prosecution said that. The prosecution was like, yeah, because the prosecution was saying, how do you know, because the prosecution is trying to prove that he did it. Yeah, yeah. And they're saying, if it was at, if it was never going to get past

that tacky that it was already at, then how we, who are we to say that that's not as dry as it got? Okay. Okay. Okay. He put that there when he killed her. Yep. And it wasn't going to dry anymore. Okay. Like, who's to say? Yeah. Because it's still tacky a week later. That's really weird that the blood was still tacky. Yeah. So literally, there's just no answer there. Like, it's just no, it's everybody just speculating. Well, that's the thing. Your definition of tacky, whether it was tacky, how tacky. It's tacky. Like my nail tech probably thinks that my nails are still tacky, but like I'm trying to leave. Exactly. It's the same kind of thing. And it's the exact same thing. And Kevin's lawyers, the defense team, Michael Robbins, Kenny Johnson, and Bill Bristow said,

quote, if any portion of it had the consistency of being tacky, then that's indicative of it being put there at the time the body was discovered. So they're saying, right. Cool. Yeah, it might still be tacky. But as long as it's fucking tacky, it's not totally dry. Well, and that's why I was saying, like, why did the prosecution say that? Because I feel like it doesn't even necessarily help them. It does, though, because if they're saying, it's not getting any drier than that. That's its full state of being dry. This light bulb will not allow this blood to get drier than that. So if it is at its full state, then that could go either way. And that means reason.

reasonable doubt. Okay. So they're saying... This whole thing is so confusing. They're saying, let's, that doesn't prove that he did it, but it doesn't prove that he didn't do it. Okay. That's what they're saying. That's all they can hang on right now. So they're like, as long as we can say that it doesn't prove he didn't do it, because we don't know if that was going to get drier. It doesn't look like it was. It works for either way. Well, that's exactly what it is. But they got to use it. Right. Because they don't have anything else. Now, the other piece of evidence is obviously that condom wrapper. Yeah. Very interesting piece of And like you said, like I know I clarified before, but it's literally just a wrapper. They did not find a condom at all.

Yep, just a wrapper hanging out. And originally, just a wrapper, trash. And originally the prosecution said we looked, there's no fingerprints on it, no DNA on the wrapper that we can use, like just a wrapper. There's no fingerprints on the wrapper? Well, the defense team ran tests on it and found DNA on the wrapper. I would think so. And that DNA was not a match to Kevin, but an unknown male.

Oh, bitch. Which, strange. And unusual. Definitely unusual. Could just be a guy that she was sleeping with that wasn't Kevin. Which then supports the prosecuting, Jesus Christ, the prosecutor's theory. Exactly. And that's exactly what the prosecutors said.

They said, okay, okay. Double down. Actually, that supports our theory. That Kevin was pissed because she was cheating on him. Right. So neither of them had any. Like, they could just go, like, round and round and round. So literally, like, the defense team is like, oh, we found DNA and it doesn't match Kevin.

It's a non-mail. Like, boom, boom, boom. Right. And then the prosecution's like, oh, cool. Thanks, bros. That actually shows that he could be pissed because she's cheating on him. Right. Ah.

So they keep helping each other. Yeah. No, it's literally just like a fucking tango. But the defense were like, okay. Yeah, sure. But your police work is sloppy as fuck. And it's like, so. That goes without saying.

They're like, do you really want it? They miss. DNA. Like, do you really want to... You missed DNA and you also didn't sweep for certain DNA. So how am I to believe that you even swept that condom wrapper? Exactly. So they're like, really like, do we listen to you now? Like, do you guys watch Law and Order? Now, this all went back and forth. And then July 2007, finally, jury deliberations were here. Okay. And they were not easy. No, that's it. Like I was saying, I would not want to be tasked with that job. And the jury was shown photos of the crime scene. They were shown photos of Nona. They were shown many photos of the wounds she received.

And so initially in that room, they were split. Because I'm sure there was emotions involved. There was a lot of stress. I don't know how they would have made a decision. Like, honestly, if I was in there, I'd be fucked. I'd just be crying. I don't know. Like, I'm deadlocked. I don't even know. I myself am deadlocked. Yeah. Same. Not as a group. I myself am deadlocked in my mind. Yeah. But the next day, they come back together. I think everybody was probably. able to like sleep on it take a minute look through everything a little closer they returned a verdict not guilty okay and kevin said i felt like 10 000 pounds had been lifted off my shoulders yeah i would think so but her nona's uh stepfather dwayne said quote i was sitting there with my mouth

hanging open not guilty and so i stood up and said you got away with it kevin you got away with it which i don't blame him yeah that's if you think he did it that's a horrible thing to hear yeah of course And her mother, Carol, said, I was in a state of shock for a few seconds. I couldn't do anything. And it's just like everything was in slow motion. Because in their mind, this kid just got away with murdering their daughter. Yeah. Like this boy that you thought was this great boyfriend, you think he murdered her. And they've shown you that it's a possibility. So I understand that. And even though he was released and obviously acquitted, many people still believed he was the guy. Was he like exiled? So that must have been horrific. I can't imagine that. I mean, again, look at the West Memphis three. I always go back to them, but they are just such a- It's Arkansas. They're such a pure case of being railroaded and it's such a pure case of being railroaded and having to deal with the after effects of it.

No, his defense team actually promised his father, his parents. Okay. Kevin's parents. That they were going to find the guy responsible. They were like, we're not ending here. Just because he got off doesn't mean that we're just going to go like, all right, see you later. They were like, nope, we're going to figure this out. We're going to find out who did it. Good for them, because that's not only helping like Kevin and his family, but also helping known his family. Yeah, they were like, we don't want to have you thinking it's Kevin because we don't believe

it is. Right. And if there is some guy walking around that murdered your daughter, we're going to find out who it is. Yeah. So tell me they did. And as we, I mean, the state of Arkansas with the West Memphis three case, like they are pretty famous for not given a shit and just wanting to get the case finished, whether it's right

wrong. So at least these defense attorneys are sitting there going, no, no, no, we're not just letting it end where he walks out of here and is treated like a pariah forever. And we don't actually look for the monster who killed her and just let him walk around. Right. So did they? Which is what they did with the fucking West Memphis 3. I'm sorry, I'm really angry about that case. No, I don't blame you. It's horrific. Shit's going on with the evidence right now. So I'm like real fired up. Yeah, like it burned in a fire. That didn't ever happen. Real fired up. And but they, because they do this. So whatever. So his parents actually had to sell their house to pay the legal fees off.

That happens in my case this week too. It happens so often. Yeah. It's sad. They never, so they said, you know, the defense team was like, we're going to start by matching that unknown male on the condom wrapper, the DNA. We need to match that with something. Yeah, that's like your own. We have to figure that's, if we can find who that is, we can at least rule them out.

Yeah. Or we got our guy. Right. So they tried to match. to any of the men that she had been seeing or was friends with, anybody around her, none matched that DNA. Oh, shit. So they're like, what the

fuck? So again, that kind of made their antenna go up, though, because they're like, so this is a stranger? Yeah. This isn't someone she knows. Right. We can't find anything. Right. What are we going to do? So this, to me, says this is somebody involved. Yeah. Because it's a fucking stranger that came into her house. Uh-huh. Now, September 2007, two months later,

a man named Gary Dunn was arrested for a totally unrelated crime, burglary. Okay. Police remembered this guy's name, though. Why? Because he had lived in the same apartment complex as Nona, and he was questioned by the police at the time of the initial investigation, but apparently they released him without incident. What? Now that he was... Yeah, in the same complex.

And was questioned. Oh, it gets worse. So now that he was arrested for burglary. burglary with something else. So he's violent also. He is also, he's very violent. They compared his shit to the DNA and fingerprints found on the condom wrapper and Nona's apartment. Girl. Thanks to Nora's family, Nona's family paying for the testing. Oh, wow. That's amazing. Badasses. The DNA was consistent and the fingerprints were as well, but they were just not good enough to be a legal match. But they were consistent. And consistent to the point where it was like, the odds of it not being him were like,

in like a million zillion. Like it was like a very high number. Dude. So it couldn't be considered a legal match because it wasn't like a great sample, I don't think. Could they resample it? I don't think they could. I think it was like the rapper is a tough one to get it. Some things are really tough to get samples from.

That makes sense. But he's like, okay. But no, I have an alibi. But he has an alibi. I have an alibi. What is it? I was shopping with my mom. And his mother backed the alibi up and they were like, okay, well.

But like I said, grandma. But they said, here's the items I bought and here's the receipt showing that. They had receipts for every single item that they said they bought that day. Only problem was. I was going to say, so what? Those items were on a receipt that was dated December 13th, not the 15th. So two days before she was killed. So did he show that and that's why he was let go without incident in the first place?

He sure did. So they saw that. And let him go. And they didn't even see that it was the same, it wasn't the same fucking day. They let him go. They're just like, oh, you were shopping the day after. That means you must not have murdered here. Yeah, you were shopping two days before.

Two days before, excuse me. Mm-hmm. So they just missed that. So that alibi he had, that let him go the first time? It just fell apart. Not an alibi. Just fell apart officially. So what the fuck were you doing that day?

Murdering her probably. Well, and with that DNA match in the face. fingerprints, they can move forward now. So they arrested him and charged him with Nona's murder. Oh, shit. Kevin must have been like told you so. Yeah, he's like, hello. Interestingly, they later discovered that the police had the information that Gary's alibi didn't quite check out. So they didn't miss it. Because there's investigative notes that they uncovered. Yeah. That have that in there. It's in there. So they either ignored it. They either ignored it. Or they Or they were just too dumb to put it together that it wasn't the same day.

And it seems like it could have been where two tunnel visioned on one suspect were just not even paying attention. Dude. That's a big fucking miss right there. So he lied about his alibi and was still ignored and they just went towards Kevin. This is my people are narcissistic because the police let them get away with it. Yeah, because they let them think that they're getting away with it. So his trial was April 2010.

Now, they said they were able to find out. He was sexually violent. He was obsessed with Nona. And that was backed up by his ex-wife. He was... Gary was obsessed with Nona? And his ex-wife was able to back that up in trial. What?

She testified for the prosecution and said she lived with him in the apartment complex. The same one as Nona? Yes. And she lived there when Nona was murdered. And she said at that time he was violent to her, the wife, both physically and sexually. Oh, my God. She said in the weeks leading up... to her murder, she had caught Gary peeping in Nona's windows in the middle of the fucking night.

He was hanging outside her bedroom window trying to look into it. He's looking into Nona's windows and he has a history of violence and like, his fingerprints are at the scene and his alibi didn't check out. That's not coincidental to me at all. That's not circumstantial. That's right place, right time. You killed her. we were talking about with the Kevin thing. We were like, yeah, some of the, it's just like nothing's

really like concrete. Ding, ding, ding, ding. All of this is concrete. Ding, ding, ding. This is what it's like to actually have evidence, guys. Welcome. Welcome to an investigation with evidence, everybody. He was peeping in her fucking windows. He was peeping in her windows the weeks leading up to her murder. So he was probably figuring out her fucking. Yeah, routine, her layout of her house. And his, obviously, it's an ex-wife. She was like, I divorced him because he was horrible to me. monster. And the defense were like, okay. Yeah. But let's bring Kevin back to testify about where, because he found Nona. Yeah. He was part of this. Yeah. So, okay. Bring him back. Remember, he's been acquitted. Let's bring him back. Yeah. And he explained, I climbed on top of her and picked

her arms up to me. And I just sat there and prayed and hoped the worst was happening. That's what he said about finding her. They asked him, wasn't it obvious she was dead, though? And he said, I've never seen a dead body before. Yeah. Like he was like, no, it wasn't. Also, what does that have to do with Gary killing her? You don't walk into a scene like that and just assume the person's dead and don't do anything else, especially if it's somebody you care about. Right. But they were like, okay, so they were trying to get under his skin. And they kept going. They started asking him about the cheating, which they knew was going to get him like upset. It's going to get under anybody's skin. And he maintained, he said he didn't know about any other men in her life until after her death. So he said,

it's irrelevant. Yeah. Which it is. She died brutally. And he said, he said, I didn't know about it while we were dating. So no, because they were trying to say like, well, weren't you angry? Didn't she? Didn't make angry?

And he was like, sure, I would have been angry. I didn't know about it. Right. So he's like, I don't know why you're asking me about it now because I'm not angry now. She's dead. Right. Like, I don't know what to tell you, but they were trying to really like pick at him. That's shitty.

And they're like smearing known as name. Yeah. And they kept asking him about the finger and handprint on the light bulb. And he said, At some point, I must have touched it. That's my explanation. Yeah, which makes perfect sense. I don't know.

It was a crazy chaotic scene. I'd probably touched it. Do you want to talk about the fingerprint on the condom wrapper that is your fucking clients over there? I'd be like, are we really going to back flip into the tacky discussion again? Or like, do you really want to get into it? I'd be like, I was acquitted, brother. This is double jeopardy right here.

But then they started saying to him, well, that description of what you did on December 15th all day was just you trying to make a paper and digital trail of your whereabouts because you're guilty. I'd be like, okay, does your client have a trail? And they used to, he went to an ATM, he ate at a restaurant where there was a camera. And they said that, sure, that makes it look like you were doing other things that day. But to us, it proves the opposite of you being innocent. It proves that you're just very calculated. What? And he, they basically just destroyed his own innocent verdict. Like they just dragged him through the mud again. And they laid it back on him. And it kind of worked. Why? The jury was deadlocked in a mistrial.

was declared. So this motherfucker who, his fingerprint is on the scene, he's peeping in her windows. He has a history of violence while this other kid has just dated her for five years and like loved her. And the police really just like fucked him sideways. But they were able to put doubt in the minds of the jury by saying, wait, maybe we got the wrong guy. And maybe the wrong guy is walking around out there. So it's a mistrial. So they're not saying one way or the other. So he was not. So technically they can try him again. But it's wild to me that they, that they literally put Kevin on trial again. Double Jeopardy style and got away with it. Like they were able to literally retry him and get a guilty basically. Yeah. Like they were able to

be like, yep, see? Because like maybe this guy did it. Yeah. Even though he was acquitted. Luckily, Gary was tried for a second time pretty quickly. Okay. This time the prosecution had a star witness. The prosecution had a star witness. Okay. She was a woman named Kelly Joe Harris. She testified that in 2002, Gary Dunn, had attacked her on a hiking trail. Oh my God. She said she was jogging and ran by him. Suddenly he came up behind her and slammed her in the back of the head with a large stick.

Dude. Does that sound familiar, everybody? Certainly does. He was violent and aggressive. He pinned her down on the ground telling her he was going to kill her. She was luckily able to escape. Wow, good for her. Like badass.

She went to police immediately and they found him hiding in a fucking stream. In a stream? What are you, a salmon? Like, what? Get out of here. But he went to prison for 18 months. 18 months for attempted murder. Oh, yeah.

And immediately upon his release, guess where he moved to those fucking apartments? The apartment complex were known to live. Wow. They should have to notify, like you would think, especially like a young woman living alone, like a 19 year old, she should know who her neighbor is and that he just got out of prison for trying to like. trying to literally murder and rape somebody. Yeah. Yeah. So they brought that star witness out, which clearly shows that he has a history of violence,

which they couldn't prove with Kevin. Right. Another hung jury. How, though? I don't know. How? Well, so the problem is, could they bring that fingerprint into the trial since it wasn't a legal match? Or like, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I think it was, I don't even think it was able to be put in there. So I think they really were only having to go. But they had that, they had his ex-wife. Yeah, I mean, peeping in her windows. He was pretty clear that, like, there's a connection to Nona. He knew who she was. He was aware of her. Right.

And the good thing is, he's in prison because he's a beast. Okay, good, good. He was sentenced to 15 years in prison after he tried to force a woman into his car outside of a Baptist church in Russellville. What? And that same day that he tried to kidnap that woman, he indecently exposed himself to another woman in a shopping center parking lot. So this man's is like,

like has all the signs of being like a fucked up individual. He's a monster who could murder people. Yes, he's a monstaya. A monstia. A monstia. He was put in jail for attempted kidnapping and indecent exposure, and he is currently serving in Arkansas Department of Corrections, which Arkansas, maybe do it right this time and keep him there.

Seriously, dude, this guy's dangerous as hell, and he 100% no doubt in my mind killed Nona. And the thing is, they can try him for it again. Right, because he wasn't acquitted. Yeah, it's been two mistrials. I wish that they could like scrape that again. I know. You know what I mean? I just want them to.

And maybe they can put it into the universe. I think they're going to. We're going to put it into the universe. Something's going to happen. Now, in December 2011, Kevin Jones actually filed a $10 million civil suit against Detective Mark Frost, former police chief James Bacon, Gary Dunn, and the city of Russellville. Oh, wow. Because he said they basically conspired to pin the murder on him.

Yeah, that is like, is that not slander? Yeah. And they said also in the suit, it said that Gary Dunnard. Mary Dunn's polygraph also showed deception. But they said it just, and they also said that the police didn't fully investigate the crime scene. Because they didn't. Because they just had that tunnel vision. They literally didn't even go upstairs.

Unfortunately, it was dismissed because they were like, bro, you filed this four years too late. Yeah. There is like a statute of limitations, unfortunately. So to this day, no one has been charged with her murder. That is wild. Now, at one point, Nona's family was going to file a civil suit against Kevin. Yeah. But they did not.

And they are not because they said they've come to a good place with him and they no longer believe that he was responsible for known as death. Well, that's good. Which is good. That's a positive thing to come out of this. Did they think that Gary did this? I don't know what their thoughts on that are. Okay.

But they at least don't think that Kevin did it. And Kevin is actually a criminal defense attorney himself now. Oh, my God. And is married in practices in Russellville. Wow. Isn't that wild? Good for him. I'm surprised that.

he like can practice in Russellville after all that. Yeah, I think his people, maybe people came around and realized that there was nothing to say that he did it. Yeah. And, uh, Arkansas Tech University, where Nona was going to school, established a music scholarship in her memory. I love that. Yeah. So at least something good came out of this tragedy. I mean, I feel like Gary Dunn needs to be tried again. He absolutely does. It's not even a feeling. It's just a fact. And let's hope that they are able to do that. For her family, I was going to say Nona deserves that. Kevin deserves that. Known as parents deserve that. Yeah, the people that Gary Dunn has already victimized and has been proven to.

I was going to say Gary Dunn deserves that. Yeah, exactly. So that is the quote unquote, unsolved case of Nona Dirksmire. Honey, that is not unsolved. I don't think it was unsolved either. Wow. That was enthralling. It was wild ride. Seriously. Honestly, what a, what a darker world it is for Nose. and not being in it because she seems like she was like a pretty rad chick. Awesome. It's really sad. I hope they got justice. I do too. Yeah. Oh, wow. That was like heart heartbreaking. It really was. Well, no good transition here, but we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But that's weird that you try to pin an entire murder on somebody without having all the evidence. Yeah, don't do that. Definitely don't be doing that. Get evidence. Not so weird that you

give a polygraph when you're not a polygrapher. Please sample the Venetian blinds. Always sample the Venetian blinds going forward. Never ignore the Venetian blinds. Never.