Morbid - The Sodder Children….where the hell are they?

Episode Date: July 25, 2018

This one us so frustrating, guys!  When George and Jennie Sodder's home burned downed on Christmas Eve in 1945, they were thrust into a lifelong battle to find 5 of their children who, despite leaving no remains, were never seen alive again. This case has inept authorities, conspiracy theories and a tale of parental dedication that will thaw your cold, dead heart. This is, the Sodder children mystery. Sources: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-children-who-went-up-in-smoke-172429802/ https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5067563 Sodder Family Tragedy: The Mystery of Five Missing Children by Douglas MacGowan  Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. I'm Elena. And this is more bad. Death metal band now. That actually hurts my throat and I couldn't do that. That's a lot. Way to just shove yourself into the table and make everything move. Sorry.

Rude. Not sorry. Who do you think you are? We're back in our pod lab. And I'm kind of sweaty. We're helter sweltering up here again. I wouldn't say helter sweltering. I would just say like brief sweat.

Yeah. I'm like glistening. Low grade sauna. Low grades, you know, glisten. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I'm back in America.

Yeah. Ash. Hey. Had herself a little cruise. Yeah, it was so fancy. Which is, I know it sounds like we just cruise all the time. Like, that's a thing we do. But like, both of us had never been on a cruise before these last two things.

Yeah. And we just happened to book our first cruises within a couple weeks. I actually didn't even book mine. Annie's parents brought us on a cruise. See? Which is how I'm going to introduce our special guest. It's Annie. Hello, everybody.

She actually doesn't want to be on the podcast, but I want her to be on the podcast. I don't know if you can tell, but she's super serious. She's been waiting her whole life for this moment. Because I wanted to tell our story about going to Bermuda and snorkeling, and Annie was there. So I wanted her to be able to, like, shed some light on her experience. Yeah. I want to just talk about the turtle. Okay, that's a different experience

and you can't talk about that. But there were turtles. But nice try, though. No, the snort. The snark. The turtles were not there when we were snorkeling. But Bermuda has the most shipwrecks

in the whole world. That's wrong. I actually don't want you on the podcast anymore and I'd just like to remind you that my IQ is not that high and I don't retain information and I don't research. You're really funny.

Vingio Anyways So yeah They have a lot of fucking chipricks Annie A whole buttload of shipwreck Apparently not the most in the world I listen to the tour guide

I actually don't want you here at all Why did I invite you? This took a really dark turn And that was the end of their relationship But we went snorkeling in the Bermuda Triangle Which is awesome And I've always wanted to go to the Bermuda Triangle We were like snorkeling up in the Bermuda Triangle

And how many shipwrecks were there? Two? There's two. And I would like to say that I am terrified of shipwrecks to bring in this to why I'm here. You're terrified of like things that are like submerged underwater water? I don't like submerged objects. The Titanic underwater really terrifies me, so I don't like shipwrecks. I get that.

But you know what? I get that. She sacrificed it for our love. What a woman. Okay. So we like cruise out there and the guys like telling us all this stuff that apparently fucking Annie retained, but I did. And so then they like tell you how to snorkel.

It's pretty straightforward. You get to wear flippers. I was like that was fun. I was living. I was living my best mermaid life. And we dive in and one of the shipwrecks was just like the boat wasn't there anymore, but it was carrying all these cement bags because it was from like what year, Annie. Oh, I don't remember the year.

It was like 18. So there was the one, the cement bags that had, it was a, wooden boats. Yeah, so it deteriorated. Yeah, and the wood all drifted away. So it was like a phantom shipwreck. Yeah, but all the cement bags were still there and they like, they kind of like morphed into each other. So I'm just swimming. I, so then there was another boat that was like a 250 foot steel boat. I remember when I was like, I don't see it. And I see, I literally get in the water and I just look down and see this huge boat underwater. water. But coral.

It is like pounding and Ash is like, where's the boat? No, because it's like there's coral all over it. It like blends in. It's like camouflage. But then you look a little harder and you're like,

oh, there's the fucking bow more. You look a little harder and you're like, there's Mike Pence. Okay, that's a different story for another day. Assholes. This is what happens when Annie and Elena get together with me. They just fucking light up my spot.

This actually might be a, note to some people because it's funny. Well, we should begin by saying that Ash kind of mistakes any older white dude for Mike Pence. I'm just on the lookout for Mike Pence because I know he wants to fry the gaze. She's scurred. I'm scurred.

Honestly, you should be too. You're smart. But you always say it in like a monotone voice and you're like, is that Mike Pence? Because in disaster situations, you're supposed to remain calm. So you're just on the lookout for your greatest enemy. Is that Mike Pence? But it's literally any older white dude.

She's like, that must be Mike Pence. Yeah. I'm like, no. I love it. Anyways, I was living. Annie's just like floating above the water. But I'm like face deep. I'm like, hold my noodles so I can dive deeper.

Hold my noodle. They made you have noodles and I was pissed. I mean, yeah. They don't want you floating down into the shipwreck. I wanted to. Getting engulfed in the Bermuda triangle. That's exactly what I wanted. I know.

Every day that we were on the cruise ship, I contemplated how much trouble I would get in if I jumped off just because I wanted to swim in the water. Probably a lot of trouble physiologically. Yeah, no, I know that. But like, you know? I think your internal organs might rebel against you in that situation. You know how your body just like wants to do the things that knows it's not supposed to. Yeah, because it's like some primal weird thing. Yeah, no, it's a thing.

Yeah. And every day I would just be like over like the balcony and be like, I could jump off right now. I actually, that's weird that you have that thought because I'm more, you had that thought like I'm going to be the. graceful mermaid that just dives into the water and lives among the fish. But I used to, I would stand on the balcony. I'd be like, what if I just uncontrollably threw myself over here? And then I would die and it would be awful and I'd drown. Like I had these awful nightmarish thoughts of the water.

You don't know that though. You could have turned into a mermaid. You were going to be Ariel and like sing about part of your world and I don't know if anybody would want me to sing in the ocean. I would want you to sing in the ocean. I was just living my best life. Here's my other story. So my nose ring and Annie can attest this.

I almost fucking cried. My nose ring is very special to me and I'm going to make you cry a little bit because we got them done together. Like my first nose piercing, like my little nostril stud. It's really fucking special to me because I was like 18 and we went together. Oh my God. Yeah. Anyways. And it was like my first pier, kind of my first piercing. We'll go with that. Yeah, we'll go with it. I realized on the sunset cruise where we were with Annie's family that I didn't have my nose ring in. And I was like, I lost my fucking nose ring in the Bermuda Triangle. Can I just say that everyone was very confused because you weren't like being clear as to which nose ring it was? Because Ash has two. Because multiple of my family members

came up to me and they're like, is Ash okay. Like her nose ring is still in her. Wait, did they really? Yeah. They're like, she still has her nose ring in. And I was like, no, it's not the other one. Is she having a moment? Has she had too many rum swizzles? Did she have an emergency contact? My nostril piercing, not my septum piercing is the one I lost. So my nostril piercing. I thought it was gone. And then I'm sitting there. And I'm like, I have this vision because I'm a white witch.

And I'm like, okay, maybe I'm going to get home or like back to the cabin. And it's going to be like on the little vanity where I get ready. Like I feel like it's going to be there. I fucking get back to the cabin and my fucking nose ring is on the vanity. Are you shitting me? It was fucking there. And I was like, that's bananas. I just believe that like the Bermuda triangle, like spit it out, but then realized how sad I was.

And Annie's mom definitely thinks I'm like a psychopath. No, you know what? I think that's exactly what happened. I think the Bermuda Triangle was fucking with me. Because the Catamaran Cruz was also in the Bermuda Triangle. Yeah. So I had been in the Bermuda Triangle twice that day. This was pure Bermuda Triangle.

Yeah. Also, that's like, is that really hard to say? Bermuda Triangle. Bermuda Triangle? I think I just love it so much that I could say Bermuda Triangle, Bermuda Triangle. Bermuda Triangle. Yeah, I can't do that. I can barely say it once.

I'm like Bermuda. Bermuda. Bermuda Twangle. But yeah, so that was my trip to the Bermuda Triangle. I did a lot of other stuff. I went jet skiing. Annie swam with turtles. Pretty cool.

But yeah, go on vacation sometime. That's the last of our vacations for like ever. So you'll never have to be without us again because we got it all out of the way in the months of June and July. Yeah. Goodbye, everyone. Bye, Annie. We've just sent her to her corner on the floor. Yeah, she just falls asleep when we're podcasting.

Her pile of blankets on the floor. She's now been relegated to. But yeah, everybody, that's my bay. So tonight's case is kind of a fun little unsolved mystery. And by fun, I mean tragic and awful. But yeah, super fun, good times. Fun, like, spooky. And there's a lot of theories.

The theories are like the most fun part. And what's fun is that I might have an autopsy later. Ooh. So we'll get through this. So tonight's topic. Bo-don-bo. Is the mysterious disappearance of the Sauter Children. Whoa!

Do do-do do-do. I'm going to give you a brief little overview. I need it. I'll get into some, you know, some of the real details of this whole thing. Deets. So the Sauter Children Disappearance begins 1945 Christmas Eve. Yes. Holidays and shit.

It's like supposed to be cheerful. You know. Like, Jack, the Halls with balls up, Holly. What is it? It's like nothing was stirring in the house. Except for a blazing fire. Spoiler alert. Yikes.

So this is in Fayette'sville, West Virginia. Parents, George and Jenny Sauter had nine children. Too many. One might say too many. Far too many children. They actually had ten children, but nine of them were in the house. Because their oldest child was away in the army. Oh.

And I looked everywhere, and you cannot find this child's name. That's really weird. It's weird. But nine of their children were in the house. They were awoken in the middle of the night by a fire. And George and Jenny got out of the house, along with four of their children, two-year-old Sylvia, 17-year-old Marion. 23 year old John 16 year old George Jr.

They all got out of the house. No, I don't know if you guys know math. That's four kids. There are five left in the house. There are five who did not come out of the house. Quick mental math. The five that did not come out of the house were 14-year-old Maurice, 12-year-old Martha, 9-year-old Louis or Lewis,

eight-year-old Jenny and five-year-old Betty. Oh, five is so long. I know. Five is like really, that like, you. Yeah. In your heart. So the five children that didn't come out of the house shared two bedrooms that were upstairs. So in the end of all this, the house burned down. And those children, no one knew what the fuck happened to them because no remains were found. So that's the basis of this. Right. So that's

crazy. That's just a sad story. So to go back, George Sauter, he immigrated from Italy to Fayette's when he was 13 years old. Oh, shit. He came over as Giorgio Sodu. That's my name. Or something close to that. And then he, you know, got changed to George Sauter because that's what we do here. We change your name into an American name.

We change your cool-ass name. Yeah, your cool-ass Italian name into an American name. It's a great system. When he arrived in Fayetteville, excuse me, he met and fell in love with Jenny Sipriani. Aw, another Italian, right? And yeah, sounds Italian, right? Sipriani for sure. For sure. They actually had a total 10 children together, and like I said, the oldest was in the army.

And in Fayetteville, there was actually a really tight-knit and active Italian immigrant community. Most people around the town respected George. He was a good dude. He was pretty chill. They were a middle-class family. George was very active in this Italian community. But he was also pretty vocal. Which is never a good idea. I mean, it's a good idea. Just be quiet. I'm just kidding. Like, you know, speak up.

Yeah. Know your audience. Yeah, just know your audience. So he was very vocal about a lot of things. Like, people knew he had opinions. But his one thing that he was like really, really vocal about was his disdain for the Italian prime minister slash fascist dictator Benito Mussolini. Benito. In case you don't know who Benito Buscellini is.

Mussolini or Mussolini? Mussolini, sorry, I'm having a moment. I was like, am I? I was like, you mean Mike Pence? It's Mike Pence, essentially. So, I mean, this guy was a fascist, and he was just a really bad guy. He was, uh, he had a lot of super loyal followers. Okay.

Kind of like someone else you might be able to think of. Like rings a bell. I'm not going to name any names. So Benito Mussolini was actually executed along with other members of the fascist movement. Two days before Hitler. and his girlfriend Eva Braun before they committed suicide. So on April 29th,

1945, Mussolini's corpse was loaded into a van in the middle of the night and brought south of Milan where they dumped him on the ground at a place called the Italian names man. Piazzale Laredo.

Piazale Laredo. I like it. Yeah, that's way better. Pizza. Pizza. Pisa. Pisa. Mua.

Super stereotypical here. So it's okay This place was the site where 15 anti-fascists were executed recently, so it was kind of fitting that they threw him there. All right. His corpse was kicked and spit on by the crowd, and then it was hung upside down from the roof

of an ESO gas station, where it was then stoned by the crowd as well. Shit. He was then buried in an unmarked grave in Mussoco Cemetery north of Milan. So he was a bad guy. Guess so. Sounds lit. You know, you don't just do that to anybody. You know, so yeah. Wild. So, but again, he had people that, you know, believed that the fascist movement was the way to go, unfortunately. I don't think it was, though.

George did not agree with this. So George eventually ran a trucking company of his own that took off pretty well. Again, they were like a middle class, a solid middle class family. Before this, though, he worked for a man named Fiorenzo Janitolo, who strongly. disagreed with George's views on Mussolini. Oh, good. Despite these differences, the two of them actually seemed to remain, like, be pretty close, even after George left the company to start his own company.

So when he left that company, he had a $1,500 mortgage insurance clause that was payable to Fiorenso Janitolo. What does that mean? So, like, if something happened to the house and the family, like, he would get the payout. Oh. Yeah. But only $1,500. But again, back then, that was probably a lot more.

It's not super a lot. So allegedly, Janitolo increased this to $1,750 without the Sauter's approval or knowledge. And he actually ended up with the payout after the fire. Even though George didn't die? Yeah, because it was signed over to him. It was a clause. Oh, shit. What a stupid clause.

Right? So according to the fire marshal's report, 60 days before the fire, Janitolo actually attempted to trick George into signing an additional life insurance policy on top of the other insurance. Oh, damn. That seems pretty spooky. Yeah, spook, spook. Like, come on. Now, when he was trying to trick him into buying this insurance policy, he got super pissed when they didn't want it.

And he actually yelled at George, quote, Your goddamn house is going up in smoke and your children are going to be destroyed. You're going to be paid for the dirty remarks you have been making about Mussolini. What? Case solved. Who heard that? Like, I think we can leave now. Yeah, and that was the case.

The end. That was that. He did it. Like, how did what? And this is an unsolved case. And this is unsolved. Because I think we just cracked the code. I mean, maybe I'm using like my super advanced, you know, well-honed detective skills here.

I don't know, Sherlock, I think. It seems like the case is solved as fuck. Yeah. But it's like when the villain in movies reveals their entire evil plan and you're like, why are you doing that? This is like a Scooby-Doo case. Yeah. Like there's like, oh, you pesky cats. Yeah, like they're always, it doesn't make sense.

No. But anyways, it's still unsolved. We don't know. I don't know. So about a month before the fire, a stranger had showed up at the solder home inquiring about some hauling work. So that's not too weird. What's hauling? Especially in those days, like hauling stuff away.

Oh, like cleaning for them? Just like picking up shit and bringing it away. Like, hey, I just want to pick up the shit at your house. I just want to haul shit. Can I just haul your house? And that was like a thing back then. So it's just like cleaning. Show up and be like, can I haul some shit?

And you were like, yeah. Yeah, you can do that. So the 40s were at time. So this man lingered around the back of the house where the two fuse boxes were located. Don't like that. And he actually noted to George, these are going to cause a fire someday. So that's weird because, and George was like, no, they're not. Because he had recently had the power company come to his house because I believe he was putting in like a new fancy stove. Because again, they were like, they got a little money. Yeah. So he was getting that stove put in. And because

he's a smart guy, he was like, you know what, while you're in here, can you just make sure that all the wiring is like, is like doing this thing. Not going to cause a fire. Yeah. And so the power company came and looked at the shit and was like, these wires are perfect. Everything's good. So that's creepy. Now, a couple of days before the fire, two of the surviving children saw a man watching the younger solder children coming home from school on Highway 21. Ew. Ew. In fact, that's what I wrote. I read it, but then I actually said it. So on the night of the fire, I'm going to illit you in the storyline of what happened that night. I remember, I forget who did it, but I listened to a podcast where they covered this case,

and I was like, this is like a good movie. It is. This would be a good movie. So on the night of the fire, you know, Christmas Eve, at 12.30 a.m., the phone rang, and Jenny answered it. She heard a female voice who asked to speak to someone that she didn't know. And she said in the background, there was clearly a lot of laughter. There was like glasses clinking like they were toasting in the background.

It looked like a party. And it's Christmas Eve. So, you know. So Jenny said you have the wrong number and she hung up the phone. Now, this would seem weird, but later they were able to track down this woman. Oh, they were? And she literally just had the wrong number. Like, it was like she was at a party.

Just had the wrong. So there's nothing to that. But it's still a, you know, part of the story. Yeah. So while she was talking on the phone, she noticed that the lights were still on. downstairs and Marion was asleep on the sofa because what had happened was didn't she like let them stay up late or something exactly so she it was Christmas Eve they had gotten presents a couple presents and I believe it was Marion the 17 year old was like working at like the five and dime

and she had bought all her younger siblings toys oh and like surprised them with them that's so nice they were all excited and they asked their parents got tired I think around like 10 30 and we're like we're going to bed and the kids were the younger kids were like you know can we stay up and like can we stay up and the parents jenny and george were like you can as long as you do you complete your chores chores before you go and turn off the lights right and put the the chores were to go outside i think it was like to feed the cows something with the chickens you know it was just like that kind of shit but it was outside and then come back in and make sure you do stuff don't send them outside that way so just keep that in mind

So, again, and, you know, so she noticed the lights around downstairs. Marion was asleep on the sofa. She locked to the door, shut off the lights, and went back to bed. So just as she was beginning to fall asleep, she heard a loud bang on the roof, followed by something that sounded like it was rolling. Now, like, she just went back to sleep. So if you hear something on your roof in the middle of the night, just like a morbid podcast tip. Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's.

Like how we tell you that fresh air is for dead people. Yeah. Things rolling on your roof are cause for alarm. Nothing good is banging around on your roof. No. You should definitely find the source of what's on your roof. You should just do something. Don't go back to sleep.

Just don't. Yeah. Just don't. Call a neighbor. Yeah. What's on my roof, girl? What's on my roof girl? Hey, girl.

What's you doing? Look on my roof. Come on. Can you use my roof? Do that. Anyways. So, minutes later, she smelled and spotted smoke billowing into her room. Awesome.

Which is my worst nightmare. So she immediately woke George, ran and grabbed two-year-old Sylvia from her crib, while screaming for her other children to get out of the house. Marion, Jenny, George, and Sylvia ran through the front door, still screaming for everyone to leave. 23-year-old John and 16-year-old George Jr. ran out as well from their bedrooms upstairs, and they were also screaming for the other kids to leave, get out of the house as they were running downstairs. So they all waited for the rest of the kids to run out as well,

but it wasn't long before George sprang into fucking Super Dad mode and decided to just save his kids himself. He was like, fuck this. So George had actually broke back into the house to try and bring out his kids. Holy shit. He sliced his arm open on a bro-like he broke a window and sliced his arm open in the process. Damn. And he was stopped at the staircase because the entire.

staircase was on fire. Oh, my God. So then he decided, okay, I know I have a ladder outside. I'm going to get the ladder. I'm going to go up to the second floor and I'm going to get him. Well, wasn't it not there? The ladder was fucking missing from the spot. He literally always put it in.

Not normal. It was later found about 75 feet away from the home in a ditch. Not normal. I mean, that says something. So being the persistent human he is, which you will see later on, George Sauter, is a very dedicated and persistent father. Which like breaks my heart. Yeah, it does.

He had the idea to then use his coal trucks to park outside of the house and stand on it to climb up and get his kids. Damn. But they were suddenly not starting. Which didn't make any sense. They had worked perfectly only the day before. Right. So in desperation, he actually tried scooping water out of a nearby rain barrel, but it was frozen.

And he kept trying to enter the house. Oh. Now, the other thing is, why the hell are there no reports of seeing these kids trying to get out of the house? Right. Like, none of them came to the windows. You didn't hear any screaming. Nothing. So they just laid in bed and silently turned to dust.

Nope. Nope. That's not how that works. So 17, while this is all going on, you know, the parents are going on. So everybody's trying to get those kids. 17-year-old Marion ran to the neighbor's house to call the fire department. Unfortunately, the operator on duty was not on duty and did not answer. So there's just no one on duty?

So Marion ran to another neighbor's house to call, and they too could not get an answer. What the fuck? So do you think somebody like, oh, sorry, paid off, like, the person to leave? Well, it gets weirder. This second neighbor actually went into town to get the fire chief F.J. Morris in person, where he found him at a local tavern. So the fire department was only 2.5 months. miles away from the solder home.

But because the chief claimed he couldn't drive the fire truck without one of the other firefighters, and he was having to call them all to get into work, they didn't get to the solder home until 8 a.m., which was seven fucking hours after the fire began. So do you, they must have been paid off. Something weird is going on. Because that doesn't make any sense even for like, I mean, 1940s. Something's weird. Yeah.

I mean, 19, the thing is, it's. all weird, but it was Christmas Eve, so they didn't have anybody on duty. Right. And it was like a volunteer basis, so all that was going against them. But still. Yeah, the whole thing is weird. It's a weird, weird, weird thing. So, by the time they

got there seven hours later, the house was gone. Oh, it was? Yeah. Is that how fireworks? Yeah, that's how fireworks. Oh, okay. Is that why we have firefighters on duty? Yeah, that is. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Glad we cleared that up. I'm glad we cleared that up. Yeah. That's what they do. They fight fires. I like, that's what they're supposed to do. So seven hours of response time is not really a situation where, like, your PR people can spin that.

You know, they can't be like, we're reevaluating our response time and we're training our staff better for next time. It's like, nope, you had one job. Yeah. You're the keepers of the hoses. You didn't do it. Straight up failure. Like, to the fire department get canceled after that. Like, seven hours is unacceptable for takeout.

So it's definitely unacceptable for people. for people coming to save you from a burning house. Seven hours is like insufficient for many things. Yeah, it's ridiculous. So once they got there. It's a full night's sleep for me. Yeah. There you go.

So once they got there, they looked in the ashes of the home for the remains of the missing kids. And there were no remains. Nothing was found. Bum, boom. Now, this is after. I meant for that to be creepy, but I don't think it was. It was just like a transnational. commissioned in Gilmore Girls.

Ooh. It really was. Bye. I kind of loved it. It was like the la-wows. La-la-la-la-la-la. La-la. La-la.

Are we going to get sued? I love Gilmore girls. Oh, Rory. Roy's the fucking worst. That's another podcast. Yeah, Roy's awful. But she is the worst. She's the worst.

Worst, worst. Fuck you, Rory Gilmore. Suck. So the fire department didn't finds any kids. So they only investigated for two hours. Not even the full seven it took them to get there. No, exactly.

Now. You're like, yeah, nothing's here, bud. It was suggested by the coroner's office that the cause of the fire was, quote, bad wiring in the house. Which is pretty unoriginal. Yeah. Like, that's like, oh, there was a fire, probably bad wiring. Like, nope. F.J. Morris, the fire chief, also suggested that the fire must have been so gnarly that it just cremated the children.

Is that a direct quote? direct quote so gnarly no that's not that's not how like bones deteriorate though even if you light a bone on fire it doesn't deteriorate no and i'll i'll explain all the signs behind this oh goody don't worry my favorite part you know what he suggested like what a guy he just got cremated no he was like let's just scoop some ashes up from the site and bury them like it's your kids are you like how crude like fuck this guy like that's just crude like fuck this guy he gets even weirder, by the way. Like, F.J. Morris, what the fuck? Maybe he, I think he had, he knew someone. Yeah. So, a week later, after the fire, the coroner issued a death certificate for all five kids without

any of the bodies. Oh, so, okay. Typical. Yeah. So, the only thing left of the house was the basement, basically. And four days later, George had it covered with five feet of dirt as kind of like a makeshift grave slash memorial to his missing presumed dead children. Oh my God. He actually intended to cover it with a garden or something beautiful for his kids. I'm not okay. Like this guy. I'm not fucking okay.

Seriously, George Sauter, man. So it wasn't long after the fire that George and Jenny started to think that their kids probably didn't die in that fire and that they were actually kidnapped and not dead. Yeah. As smart people, they question why the fuck it took the fire department? in seven hours to get there. NPR conducted an interview with retired fire chiefs Roy and Steve Crookshank. They were a father and son, you know, team that had been working in a close-by area at the time of the fire.

Oh. They said that the Fayetteville department didn't even have sirens on their trucks at the time. What? And no one was manning the station because of the holiday. West Virginia Fire Marshal Sterling Lewis said in an interview that in 1945, Fayetteville firefighters didn't even have self-contained breathing apparatuses. Holy shit.

Which would make it impossible for them to go into a fire without smoke inhalation. So they literally couldn't go into that house to save the kids, even if they had gotten there in time. Top notch. Awesome. Top notch. That's fucked up. So.

George and Jenny theorized that the fire was set intentionally as a diversion for a kidnapping. This was partially. due to the fact that George knew that wiring thing was bullshit. And the latter. Had it fixed. Exactly. So there was just too much that was pointing. Like weird shit and the car is not

starting. He says he never heard his children cry out. Yeah. So it's like that doesn't make sense. Now if the fire was caused by faulty wiring then how were the lights still on in the house downstairs? Oh shit. If the wiring was faulty there would be no power to the house. Right. I know this.

because I asked my dad, who was an electrician. You're kidding. And he confirmed that the lights would not be working if there was faulty barn. I'm going to say, no, the lights wouldn't work? What do you think? What? What? That's my dad.

What kind of question is that? So thank you, Dad. That night, an eyewitness said that they saw balls of fire being tossed onto the solder's roof. They didn't fucking do anything about it. Which could be what Jenny heard bang into the world. Also, like, maybe you should tell someone that right away. Ready? Another morbid tip. If you see balls of fire being tossed on some poor person's home.

Perhaps do something about it. Maybe call the police or something. I don't know. Yeah. Let somebody know. Then again, in Fayetteville, I don't know what would have happened. Maybe they just would have been like, we're at the tavern drinking. So, sorry.

I can't drive the car. I'll actually, I'll be there in like seven hours. Yeah, we'll be there sometime. Don't worry. You'll probably be fine. So when the family returned to the scene later to pay respects at the memorial that George was creating. Sylvia, the two-year-olds, found a hard rubber object in the yard.

George looked at it and believed that this object was a napon, napalm pineapple bomb. Excuse me what? Napalm, pineapple bomb. Bermuda Triangle. Which were used in the war at the time. Now, these could be the things. Jenny was like, this is the thing that I heard hit the roof. Yeah.

It fits perfectly. Yeah, that shit makes sense. This is too much here. This case is so spooky. It really is. It's like insane. So the reports of the, you know, that makes the reports of the fireballs really credible. Right.

The flames had also spread from the top floor to the ground, which contradicts the idea that the fuse box on the ground floor was responsible for the fire because they started from up top. Okay. But cool, let's blame the fuse box. So. Like, who thought that? This really pissed Mama Jenny on. And she started going science on this bitch. Yeah.

So she started experimenting by burning different animal bones herself and found that all of them left identifiable remains of some sort. Yeah. She could not get one to burn all the way to ashes. Now, this is when she spoke to a crematorium employee who told her that bones were left behind even when a body was burning at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit for two hours. Which is not what? An average house fire burn...

Are you okay? An average house fire burns normally at about 1,200 degrees Fahrenheit. The solder home only burned for about 30 to 45 minutes. So it never would have. There would be bone fragments and shards at the very least. Yeah. And that's being very, you know, generous with it. To further illustrate how bananas the idea of these children being burnt ash is the fact that

household appliances were found intact among the after. Oh, shit. Yeah. So your fucking toaster is going to survive, but your kids not, no. And also, if five children had been cooked in that house, then the smell would have been pungent as fuck. Oh, yeah. Burning flesh smells like shit. And they would have smelled that shit all through town.

Right. If five kids were burning in there, like, come on. Oh, that's horrifying. So I did a little more research, just to make sure. Do you like to research? I love research. Oh, you do? I really do.

People love that you love to research. I'm glad people love that. Someone said that even I was good at researching. They did. That was generous. Max. Max. Max.

Thank you, Max. His IQ is also 11. We loved that email. I was dying. So according to the forensic pathology reviews, volume one, in the section, morphological findings in burned bodies. I'm actually sleeping. It states that even if high temperatures are applied for several hours,

there will usually still be enough skeletal remains to allow successful determination of species, the body measurements, and the sex, as well as to identify skeletal anomalies in the presence of possible injuries. Whoa. So there would be a lot left. You just sounded official as shit. I'm just saying. So that night in the following nights, there were sightings of the kids.

Uh-huh. So the first sighting was that night, the fire night, was. was like the night that the fire happened. Yeah. Or Christmas, probably. Christmas day. Oh, okay, yeah. A woman said she saw the children driving by in a car while the fire was still burning.

So. Like, did she identify the driver? No, she couldn't see the driver. Oh, shit. They were looking out a window. Another sighting was 50 miles away from Fayetteville. A woman that ran some kind of like tourist stop said that she saw the children the morning after the fire, Christmas morning. and she said, quote, I served them breakfast, and they got into a car with Florida license plate.

Oh, damn. I was like, I was like, plate. With a Florida license plate. Polates. Plotties? Another side. Pilates. Yes.

No. Florida license Pilates. So in Charleston, West Virginia, in a hotel. A woman who worked there said she saw four or five children a week after the fire occurred. She said, the children were accompanied by two women and two men, all who spoke Italian. I do not remember the exact date. I tried to talk to the children in a friendly manner, but the men appeared hostile and refused to allow me to talk to these children. That's scary as fuck.

I sensed that I was being frozen out, and so I said nothing more. They left early the next morning. Okay. And they said that they showed up at like 12.30 at night. And then they left the next morning. So they were just like stop and click. So a few years later, George actually saw a photo of New York City school children in a newspaper and believed that one of the kids was his missing daughter, Betty. No, I'm not okay.

He drove to New York to investigate. I just got chills. And actually tracked down the child's parents, but they wouldn't talk to him. Oh my God. Now, George literally personally investigated every single one of these tips. No. And he did at, like, throughout this story. Every tip or any citing or any story or theory that we mentioned,

George personally investigated. Dude, because that's your fucking babies. Five of your kids. Like, and the youngest one was five? Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. So this is around the time that they decided to hire a pathologist, which, you know, good on them because old-time.

coroners were not exactly like up to snuff. Yeah. A lot of them were like elected officials. Like they weren't even doctors. Good. Yeah. It's changed now. I'm not going to down coroners or anything.

But a back in the day was different. The pathologist back then was Oscar B. Hunter. And this guy actually excavated the dirt that was on the site because he was, you know, like doing his job. Like one of the only people. That's nice. That's doing his job. He ended up finding four pieces of human vertebrae.

Which is crazy. Mm-hmm. He sent those pieces to the Smithsonian Institute to be tested. Okay. They thought that the bones appeared to be four lumbar vertebrae with fused transverse recesses. Now, from what I have seen... Which translates in English to... I'll explain.

So from what I've seen, this was reported back as confirming that the bones belong to a 16 or 17-year-old person. But I didn't think that was right. So it's kind of false from what I... Kind of false. You see, these were lumbar vertebrae. You have five vertebral bones in your lumbar region that make up your sacrum. Which is what? Lumbar sacrum where?

Fucker. Right above your butt. Oh, my buttox. Now these bones, like a lot of bones in your body, they start to fuse once you stop growing. They start to fuse once you stop growing. Yeah, like they start to fuse. So it couldn't have been a 16 or 17-year-old. So this happens anywhere for.

16 years old to 23 years old. That's when they start to fuse? Not 16 to 17. Like they gave a very small, they were like, well, this must be a 16 or 17 year old. And it's like, no, this can be a 23 year. They wouldn't have been fully fused. Yeah, it could be. But it's, they gave a very small window of what.

Like they were like, this has to be a 16 or 17 year old. And it's like, no, it's a 16 to 23 year old. So like, don't tell them it's a kid. Yeah. So, I mean, our clavicle bones don't fuse until like 26 year old. years old. That's these, right? Yeah, your collar bones. They fuse? Yeah. Together. A lot of your bones fuse. Like, these two go together? No. Do mine look like they go together? No. That's why I was really confused. What do you mean they fuse? What the fuck? The bones fuse. I'm lost.

Yeah, it's okay. So it's entirely possible that these vertebrae belong to a young adult in their early 20s even. So it wasn't anybody's vertebra. Not to mention that the oldest missing Sauter kid was 14-year-old Maurice. So even if it was a 16-year-old, it's really not happening. Yeah, fuck that theory. They also determined that the bones had definitely not been in a fire at all. So what? Why were they there?

So they said that the bones had probably come from the dirt that George had got to cover the site. So they were like, yeah. So that's somebody else that died. Somebody else is dead in that dirt, but that's great. And this was all before DNA was used. So people were real confused. The bones were given back to George, and now no one knows where they went. Oh.

I mean, it sucks, because if we had them now, we could DNA test them. He lost them? Nobody knows. He lost them? How do you lose bones? Maybe he didn't lose them. Maybe he died with them in a box somewhere. Yeah, no, I believe that he did.

He was, like, after everything. Yeah. So after this all happened, the governor, Oki L. Patterson. Same's legit. Called a hearing in the state capital building in Charleston, West Virginia, and officially called a close to this case. Lyer.

He literally told George and Jenny that their search for their clearly abducted children were as hopeless. That's nice. The Fayetteville County prosecutor said that it would only be reopened if evidence of kidnapping came to light. So like all the tips. Kind of seems like it already has. Yeah.

I don't know. So he ended with saying, Quote, something is haunting this family, and I would do anything to put their minds at ease. I think what's haunting this family is the fact that they're fucking five children disappeared at thin air. And you're closing the case. Yes, maybe that's haunting them. In 1947, George actually tried to get the FBI involved. Jay Edgar Hoover himself contacted George back and was like, totally.

Good. We will help you because this is shady as fuck. Hell yeah. But because this is falling under, quote, local character, we need to get permission from your local authorities to step in. And they wouldn't? Well, the Fayetteville Police Department and the fire department declined their offer to help. Okay, well, they're dicks.

So there's no reason to do that unless you're guilty. Right. Like covering something up. Of covering something up. Now, another interesting bit was the night of the fire, an eyewitness recalled that they saw two recognizable men stealing the block and tackle crane, which is like the hook thing. that normally is used to lift engines out of cars from the solder residence. Oh.

Now, these two people were identified as Dave Atkins and Lonnie Johnson, who are owners of a nearby, like, beer place. Okay. Only Lonnie was ever questioned because Dave pieced out to the army to avoid prosecution. Good. Lonnie said he cut the phone lines that night, because he thought they were power lines. So how was that better? The only weird.

Why did he cut them? Did he say why? I don't know. They didn't ask that fucking question. That's very, very inept authorities here, to be quite honest. Also, the power lines were 14 feet up in the air. So how the hell did he get to it? So people were like, did he steal the ladder?

Yeah. But he didn't say anything. So Lonnie ended up pleading guilty to a stealing charge and paid a 25, dollar fine. You're fucking kidding me. Super. Officials definitely admitted later that Lonnie and George's old employer, who we talked about before, Fiorenzo there, who got the money after the fire, those two were not investigated enough. Like the authorities, like officials now are like, yeah, they should have been looked at more. Yeah. So they definitely could have been involved.

Slash were. So some of the tips that came in around the, like this time, because they started getting tips all the time now. Probably a lot of bullshit. Um, some people around town believe that the mafia was involved, and some believe that the children were taken back to Italy, where they were sold to an orphanage. That's horrible. The family actually received a letter from a woman in St. Louis that claimed that the oldest daughter Martha was in a convent there. The fuck? Someone in Florida also claimed that they were now living with Jenny's distant relatives in Florida. Why wouldn't her distant relatives call her?

Exactly. And another tip came from Davenport, California, where the sheriff received a letter saying that one of the Sauter children was attending school in the city. No staff at any of the schools knew of this at all, and we're like, no, we have no idea who that is. All class photographs were checked, and it was revealed to be bullshit. Why call in and waste your fucking time pit? Like, that's horrible. You're a shithead. Like, you're a real shithead.

George investigated all of these tips. Oh, my God. Seriously, like dad power. people are the worst literally now john saudder the oldest son came back from the army son but the oldest son that was in the house at the time no not the army one the oldest oldest old son like you never hear from him again i don't know where he went he was just armying somewhere okay so john saudor the 23 year old son he hypothesized that if his siblings were kidnapped then maybe they he agreed that they were taken to italy where george was from okay especially

due to the hotel story with the Italian-speaking adult. Like that one, he was like, that's got to be it. Why? We don't know. Maybe it was because George said stuff about Mussolini, and so it was revenge, but it's all kind of... That's some fucked up revenge. Yeah, and everything's super jankly put together these theories, but like some of them

make sense, some of them don't. Yeah. Pieces of them make sense, pieces of them don't. It's like, the one thing that doesn't make sense at all is that they burned in the fire. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. That's just, that didn't happen. So this one's pretty interesting.

In 1968, a tip came in 23 years after the fire. This contained a photograph and was sent specifically to Jenny. There was no return address, but it had a Kentucky post park. The photo was a man that was in his mid-20s, and George and Jenny immediately were like, that's our son, Louis. Oh, my God. Who was nine at the time when he disappeared. Same features, dark curly hair, brown eyes.

same nose, like long nose and slightly tilted left eyebrow. And if you look at the pictures, I'll put him up on the Instagram. This picture, the photograph, and the picture of Louis when he was nine. It looks like it could definitely be him grown up. And what did it say? There's like little features that you're like, that is the exact same feature. Okay, what did it say? So the note was on the back of the photo and it was weird as fuck.

It said, Louis Sauter, I love brother Frankie, ill, ill, boys. A901-32 or 35. What? Exactly. So. Did they have a brother Frangy? No. So they were like, what the fuck is this?

But they were nervous that releasing the photograph to the police would put their son in danger. In danger. So they hired a private detective to go to Kentucky to try to find where this came from. Holy fuck. Well, the fucking detective went missing. No. Yeah. He vanished with their money.

So they don't know, they don't know if he took their money and just took. took off or if he literally went missing but no one ever heard from i just got chills right like when does like hi i need a p i to find my PI and also my kids literally and then it's like if you took the money and just ran like like fuck him and also it's like how much money did you get like you just like what like that's a weird thing i don't know that seems fishy so i don't know there are thoughts that the numbers on the back corresponded to zip codes in palermo italy which makes a lot of sense. So George and Jenny were, again, steadfast parents.

And George was quoted as saying at this time, like in the late 60s, he said, time is running out for us. If they did die in the fire, we want to be convinced. Otherwise, we just want to know what happened to them. Oh, my God. So they were still just like, well, like, I need answers. So this is when, I mean, they were definitely losing faith in authorities in law enforcement, helping them at all.

And in response to all the bullshit, George and Jenny set up a billboard on Route 16 that had photos of their missing children and a message with all the available information, including mentioning how it was a miscarriage of justice, that someone was clearly lying. Yeah. And it stayed put for more than 40 fucking years.

Oh, my God. They kept that billboard up for 40 years. Wow. Over 40 years. They even passed out flyers similar to the billboard and offered a $10,000 reward for any information leading to the discovery of their kids. That's a lot of money now.

That was a lot of money back then. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll put a picture up of the billboard on the Instagram, but this is what it says. It says on Christmas Eve, 1945, our home was set a fire, and five of our children, aged 5 through 14, kidnapped. The officials claimed defective wiring, although lights were still burning after the fire started. The official report stated that the children died in the fire. However, no bones were found in the residue, and there was no smell of burning flesh during or after the fire.

What was the motive of the law officers involved? What did they have to gain by making us suffer all these years of injustice? Why did they lie and force us to accept those lies? Oh, my God. I literally have goosebumps. Like, look at my leg. Like, what badass? Motherfucker.

Like, they were like, fuck you guys. Yeah. This is bullshit. My entire bod is covered in goosebumps. Bums. Like, damn homes. I love it. I love it.

So, at this time, this is when they turned to another private investigator named C.C. Tinsley to help them. Fuck yeah. That's a name. C.C. Tinsley. Now, this motherfucker found out from a member of the coroner's jury who helped to decide. Now, this is a member of the coroner's jury with the people that helped determine the cause of the fire. Right.

These people determined that it was faulty wiring. he this guy that he talked to that determined it was faulty wiring got paid off was one of the fucking life insurance salesman no that basically the one that went with uh what's his name there fiorenzo yeah went with him to try to sell this shit so he just wanted the money so it seems like he might have a motive here right so he also talked to the fire marshal sterling lewis unseen and this guy said that he talked to everyone that sorted through that scene that morning, and they all said they found human remains. But they didn't.

So why did Chief F.J. Morris say that there weren't any found? Sterling Lewis was like, oh, they were probably rushing because they took two hours, normally an excavation after a house fire takes, like, days to weeks. So he's literally like, they were just rushing, and he must have been just not paying attention to the human remains that were found because... The fucking, what was it, five human rays? Yeah, five human remains, which would be a lot of remains and very noticeable. So he, quote, thinks some remains, quote, may have been found that day, but shit, it was Christmas and we were Russian.

Okay, like actually, big, fuck you. Like, it's, like gigantic, fuck you. So this guy literally thinks that there was. remains found, but he was like, things were kind of weird, and, like, I think it just got, like, swept under the rug. Like, I don't know. No, I don't think so. So, I also saw reported quite a bit that investigators were really looking carefully for remains, especially internal organs, because, from what I've read, everyone was like, because they turn a

bright shade of red when they're exposed to heat. Okay. And they'll be noticeable among the ashes. But that's bullshit too, because internal organs may be considerably reduced in size when they're exposed to flame because of fluid loss and consumption by the actual fire. Right. So they're not going to look like these plump, beautiful, red, huge things that you're going to see floating around. They're going to be like shriveled and fucked up. Right.

So that's bullshit. So because this wasn't lining up with what Morris had said that he didn't find remains, Tinsley went searching for answers. So he found a minister that F.J. Morris, the fire chief, who was super awesome at his job that night, clearly, told this minister in a confession that he had found a heart in the ashes. Uh-huh. He said he put that fucking heart in a box and buried it where the house once stood. I know this one, though. Tinsley actually convinced the fire chief to show him where this box was buried and dug it up. But it was a human heart.

The heart he actually buried was a fucking. beef liver. Yeah. I'm screaming. Like, what? Did he think it was a heart? No, this beef liver had never been in a fire at all and was a beef liver. So he bought beef liver at some store? I don't know if any of you have seen a liver and a heart side by side. They're completely different. They don't look alike. So why the actual fuck did the fire chief of the town do this weird ass shit? He said he thought that by bearing that and saying that, you know, there was a heart and everything, it would provide closure to the Sotter family. Yeah, the fucking beef liver didn't provide any closure. Thank you.

This is the weirdest shit I have ever heard. Yeah. And what I'm wondering is if he told this minister in this confession hoping that it would get back to the Sotter family and that it would, it would clear, basically save his ass. Yeah, that didn't work out. And that's what, because Sterling, he's still on his bullshit. And he thinks Morris made the liver the whole thing up to save his ass for possibly losing or just not giving a shit about actual remains found. Right. Because Sterling is still pretending that there was human remains found there.

Like, girl, see yourself out. Oh, well, Morris must have done that whole thing just because he knows he fucked up and he wanted to try to. But none of that makes sense. Literally, none of this makes sense. Like these officials are a bunch of fucking idiots. And they think everybody else is idiots. I'm like, like dumbfounded.

Yeah. So unfortunately, in the end, all that remains are theories. Some of the theories are as follows. One, two, three, four, five. A local mafia attempted to recruit George, and he wasn't having it. So in revenge,

they took his kids and lit his house on fire. So people think that they lived out the rest of their days without saying anything because they didn't want their family to get in trouble. This one doesn't really make a lot of sense because why the fuck would they steal only for? five children, and why would they get the children that were on the top floor? Yeah.

And not the ones that were sleeping on the first floor. Right. It doesn't make sense. Another one is that FBI records actually say that many believed the whole thing about Jenny's distant relatives of Florida. Really? I think one of Jenny's brothers kidnapped the kids and took them to Florida. But Jenny's relatives all took tests to prove that their kids were their kids, and they all

passed. Okay. So people also hypothesized that the kids were kidnapped. When they went out late that night to finish their chores. Right. I think... Feeding the cow and the chickens and shit. That makes sense.

And that it had the fire happened after that. And maybe by the people who... As a distraction. George Sauter passed away shortly after this, you know, whole thing with the beef liver and everything. In 1969 and he was 74 years old. Oh. Jenny lived much longer and spent her last days building rooms onto her home

and adding fences around her home to keep. everybody out. She would only wear black clothing since the fire. I'm not okay. And kept a flower garden around the spot of the fire. And she like tended to it constantly. She eventually passed away in 1989 at the age of 85. Wow. It was shortly after her death that the billboard was taken down. Which is so fucked up. They should have just left it there. So Sylvia was the two-year-old at the time. She's the last remaining solder child. How old is she? I don't know, how old would she be? It was 1945.

1945. Hold on, I'll do it. She was two. Keep going, I'll do it. I can't math. Sylvia is 100% certain that her siblings didn't perish in the fire. And she says that although she was only two years old, the fire was her first real memory. She says she can still remember her father screaming, bleeding, and crying for his kids.

I think she'd be 75. That sounds good right now. Either 75 or 71. I like it. Either way, she's still rocking around. But she still remembers her father screaming and crying for his kids and bleeding from trying to get in the house. That legitimately hurts my soul. Doesn't it?

My soul hurts. Now, Jenny Henthorn, who is Sylvia's daughter, told the Times West Virginia to post any information on web sleuth.com. Oh, my God. She said, quote, my mom promised my grandmother that she would never let this story die that's what my brother and I are doing now I just got fucking chills for the 84th time I know I'm gonna cry on my way home tonight like now sylvia the two-year-old's children Jenny and george's grandchildren yeah are like she like sylvia promised her mother that she would never let the story die don't let it die don't let it die

something happened to those kids man mm-hmm but the problem is now that all the people that would even know are dead. I know. It is a kind of a rough thing, but I don't know. I mean, some of those kids would be, could be alive. Like super old, though. Like a five-year-old? Yeah, she'd be like in her late 70s, so she still could be alive. That's actually a new super old. Yeah. Damn. And then, wow. Wow. Like at this point, like, just come out. I know. Like when you're super old? That's the thing. I just don't know what the, I can't come up with. But who knows? right exactly why like it's a very bizarre story all I can say is for personally I believe that

they did not die in that fire no do you think they got taken Italy I think they might think that's like the most like plausible do you say plausible is that wrong plausible is it plausible whatever I think that's the most plausible causable it might be the most plausible too that's that a word no 11 is my IQ. Is that McPence? Is that Mike Pence? I bet Mike Pence knows. I bet he does know what happened to those kids.

But I don't want to hear from him. Nope. We're going to get fucking red lighted somewhere. Oh, yeah. Great. I'm not gay. I'm not gay. Oh, shit.

That's the Sotter Children disappearance. Wow. Yeah. We want to hear from you guys. What do you think happened? Yeah, I want to hear things. theories. Because I know everybody's got a different take on this. So once again, I don't think they died in the fire. No, they did it. It was definitely a kidnapping in my opinion. I'm not sure what kind

of kidnapping, but it might seem like they are in Italy. So that's my stance. I feel like that's also my stance. Yeah. So give me your, give me your theories. We want to hear them. Hit us up. Hit us up. Call me. And also, we are loving the messages, people. Yeah, it's going straight to my head. Can't say it enough. They warm my cold dead heart. Mine too. My white witch soul. So keep them coming. Play. And I'm not sure what we're going to do for next week's episode, but you know, stay tuned. Stay tuned. Keep watching. Suggest some shit. Maybe we'll take a suggestion. Maybe. We've gotten a few. Perhaps. We've got a lot of good suggestions. I just have to like parcel through them and figure out which ones we want to do next. Parcel. But we'll announce it in the next couple days.

Yeah, yeah. I get to go in and perform an autopsy now. I'm going to go home and go to sleep. We hope you keep listening. We hope you keep it weird. Subscribe, reviews, tweet us, follow us, email us. Follow us on Instagram at Morbid Podcast. Follow us on Twitter at Amorbid Podcast.

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