Morbid - The Stanfield Hall Murders

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

On November 28, 1848, Isaac Jermy and his son were shot and killed in their Wymondham estate, Stanfield Hall. After a brief search, investigators located the killer, James Blomfield Rush, a tenant farmer who was leasing land from Jermy and had fallen behind on his payments. Fearing eviction and destitution, Rush concocted a plan to kill the entire Jermy family and their staff, then cast blame on Jermy’s relatives, with whom the family had been feuding over the title of the estate. However, the plan fell apart when several of the victims survived and identified Rush as the killer.Thank you to the lovely David White, of Bring Me the Ax podcast, for research assistance.ReferencesBayne, A.D. 1849. The Stanfield Tragedy: A Complete Narrative. Norwich, England: Jarold and Sons.Bristol Mercury. 1849. "Rush's trial." Bristol Mercury, April 7: 2.Caledonian Mercury. 1849. "Execution of Rush." Caledonia Mercury, April 23.Liverpool Mercury. 1848. "Horrible murders in Norfolk." Liverpool Mercury, December 5: 2.Royal College of Physicians of London. 1850. A Full Report of the Trial of James Blomfield Rush for theMurder of Mr. Jermy and His Son. London, England: W.M. Clark.The Times. 1848. "Horrible murders at Stanfield Hall, near Wymondham." The Times, December 01: 5.—. 1848. "The murders at Stanfield Hall." The Times, December 4: 3. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is morbid. Morbid. It's really morbid. It's a new year of morbid. Yeah and I'm really, I'm really starting it off with a bang, guys. You know what though? I would expect nothing less from you than to really fuck us up for the new year. Yeah, I like to come in like a lion, not so much like a lamb. You don't say. I would say that you're the lion of the show. I wouldn't necessarily call myself a lamb though. No. You have more lamb-like qualities. You have a lamb-like way about you. Thank you. But I don't think you are like pure lamb. No. It's the Gemini in me. I'm a lamb and I'm also like a goat.

Because 666. I don't know what I'm saying. You take over. I'm also a goat. So hopefully everybody had a good new year and everybody was safe and hopefully all of your lives just changed immediately upon midnight striking. I lost 100 pounds. Yeah, everybody's just, they're all changed. And I'm being so much more aware, self-aware. There you go. It's all happening, guys.

Not as that happened. No. But hopefully, you know what? We all have hopes for 2021. But let's be quiet about them because, you know, could be worse. Yeah. But everybody just be optimistic. Yeah.

Keep doing what you're doing. Everybody keep wearing those masks. Yes. You know, vaccines are coming. Elena got her vaccine today. I did. I got my first dose. My second dose will be.

at the end of the month. And you're feeling good. I'm feeling good. I'm feeling like a little cranky, but I'm feeling good. Yeah, it's not a vaccine. No, I'm kidding. My arm's a little sore. That's it. That's so far. That's all I got. So go get them because nothing. It's going to be great. I will take nothing except the Dolly Parton one. Thank you and good night. There you go. Is she the Pfizer or the Moderna? I think she's the Moderna. Oh, hey. Yeah, you got the Dolly Parton one. Because I remember being like, I told Annie and she was like, is she getting the Dolly Parton one? I was like, yes, indeed. Like I love that Annie was like, is she getting, not like, is she getting Pfizer or Moderna? Is she getting the Dolly Parton one? Well, because Annie's cousin is like a first responder, so he got vaccinated and he was upset that he didn't

get the Dolly Parton one. That's amazing. I love that. So much. Not actually upset. I should clarify. No, like not. Just jokes. Jokes. K-I-D-D-I-N-G. Just saying. So I think really, oh, and I wanted to thank everybody for all the amazing birthday wishes, because everyone was so sweet. I know. How does it feel to be like elderly. Feels good. Feels good. It feels really good. You're not elderly. I'm on my way. I know. You're right behind. I know. I'm about to be a quarter of a century old. So that's awesome. Oh my God. Yeah. So old. Not about to be. It's like six months away. But, well, five. There you go. It's not about me. The birthday count down to Ash's birthday has already begun, like, the day after mine. She was like, and the countdown begins. It's my birthday. No, the countdown begins the day after my birthday. We all know somebody like that. And you are that person. You know someone like that.

because hi hello. Hi, hello. So, yeah, before I go into it, I just wanted to say thank you guys, because you were so sweet and it was so nice and it made my day awesome. And John got me a signed David Bowie picture and I look at it all the time. Yeah, he did. Because when you think about it, it didn't like hit me, hit me that there's only a finite amount of those.

Yeah. He's not signing anymore. I mean, maybe somewhere. So it like really struck me that I was like, whoa, I have one. Yeah, that's when he told, it also. it is so hard to keep secrets because John will sometimes tell me what he gets you. When I was little, he would not tell me at all, but now I get to know. And it's hard. Sometimes I'm like, maybe I shouldn't ask him because I just want to tell you so bad. I know. That one must have been really hard. Yeah,

it was difficult. And you know, the girls asked me the other day, this is just a little quick side note before we get into this. If David Bow, for some reason they were like, is David Bowie still alive? Oh, because you got them that little book for Christmas, like a kid's David Bowie book. And I was like, yep. Because I was like, I can't. I can't do that. I can't do that yet. No.

I can't do it to them. I can't do it to me. We can't all live through it again. So I was like, yes, he's still alive. Also, I think they're really, really smart. Because in the, you know how there's, like, in that book, there's, like, the whole, like, kid cartoon part. And then at the end, there's, like, an actual timeline. Yeah.

It's one of those, like, little people, big dreams or something like that. It's a kid's book about David Povey's life. But in the back, like, the last part, I read that to them. and it's in past tense. Yes. And I think that they're so smart that they realize, like that that was in past tense. Yeah, because one, like the, you know, you know who was like, is he? Yeah.

Like she was like, eh. And when I told her, she was like, all right. I'll say like certain things and she'll be like, T, T, T, what did you mean by that? And I'm like, oh, fuck. And you're like, why do you know that? And I'm like, also don't say fuck. Kids, man. And you know what?

This segues really well into my case. Yikes. Because kids, man. Bikes. So I'm going to be covering something. And it's funny that this is going to be like the first of the year case for me because I'm always the one that's like, I don't do kid cases. I don't want to do kid cases unless it's like really necessary. Yeah. Well, this is one of those necessary ones that I feel like we have to cover. It is the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders from 1977. It is a case that I read extensively about before I had kids. Yeah. I was like fascinated by it. I read everything. I read

everything I could. And then when I had kids, I was like, I'm going to come back to that someday, but we're not going to really, like, go deep into it. So I know it really well. And then I think one of our listeners, actually, I happened to me going into the email, and I saw it, they had suggested it. And I was like, you know what? I'm ready. I'm ready to do it. I remember you, like, talking to me about this, like when you first started getting me into true crime. I was like, this is a doozy. Listen to this one. Wow. So this one's going to be tough. This one obviously has to do with children, little girls. It's horrific. It's really bad. Just warning. Yeah. There's, you know, a lot in this one. So... A lot to unpack. It's going to be a multi-parter

because there is just so much. This is still an unsolved case. I know. That's what really pisses me off about this. It is interfering. It's because they had a guy who everyone thinks did it, but I don't know. And we'll find out when we get there. No one was ever put in jail for these crimes. Right. So we don't know. And the one person that they were really looking at ended up dying like, I was going to say they're probably dead. Very shortly afterwards. So, and when we go through the evidence at first, like upon first glance, you're going to be like, oh, he did it. Right. And then when you start digging a little further into it, you're like, oh, maybe not. There's too much. And obviously a jury saw.

a doubt, a lot of doubts. Oh, so this went to trial. Oh, yeah, it did. Wait until we get to it. It's insane. Okay. So this is going back to the night of June 12th, 1977. Okay. This is going to take place at Camp Scott, which is near Locust Grove, Oklahoma. I know I said that right, Locust Grove, because locusts are a bug. And a plant. And a plant. There you go. Are they really? Crocus, I think you're thinking of. No, like a, like a flower, a locust flower. Oh, a lotus. Bye. I was like a locust plant.

Yeah, you know, whatever. It's one of like the plagues of Egypt. Locus. Yeah, I knew that. Yeah, you knew that. For sure. A locust plant. I love it.

All right. So wait a see. We're starting off the year right. You know. It's just the way you started off. It is. I also think, I don't know, sometimes my brain just like, it's not on full operation mode.

I think we can all relate to that. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. So this is a camp that is spread across 410 acres. Jesus Christ. It's huge. It was originally opened in 1928, and it was named in honor of H.J. Scottie, or excuse me, H.J. Scotty and Florence Scott. So H.J. was called Scotty, their last name was Scott.

Obviously, Camp Scott. Not Michael Scott. Where are my office heads at? Funny. So these two H.J. and Florence were boy slash girl scout volunteers. I mean, they were just, they donated a ton to them. They were just, you know, really into it. Really philanthropic when it came to the scouts. Which is always just, you know, it's always something when when adults are like really into the boy, girl scouts. It's just like, it's an interesting pathology to me. Yeah. Somebody is really into that. Listen, I'm sorry, but there's a cutoff date. I don't give a fuck. Well, and it's like if you, you know, if you grew up in it and you loved it, like,

that's great for you. I never did Girl Scouts and I never had any interest in doing Girl Scouts. But, and John actually did Boy Scouts and like, but once it became, like, I think he did like Cub Scouts. We didn't, can we shout out his mom? Because she was his troop leader. Oh, yeah, his mom. Badass bitch alert.

She's amazing. He was like, she was like a troop leader of all these little boys, like, did things in her home with the like for like that whole thing where they would have to meet like once a month and do some crazy craft or something. Scouts honor. Like make a race car. Yeah. Put out a forest fire.

But he said he stopped it when it came to the point where you like became like an actual, like boy scout like when you weren't doing just like the silly things like cut scout like cute things. Yeah. And apparently it was because he was like at that point when you're like a little kid, there's always an adult there. Your parents are around. It's like very like whatever.

And then he said when you get into this like going from elementary school into like middle school age. Do they send you up yourself? Suddenly he said there's no adults and it's just the older boy scouts that like haze you. Like he was like and I went to. Literally. And he was like and I went to one thing and I came home was like, I'm not doing this anymore. And his mom was like, you don't have to.

But I'm sure that's not the case in every single thing. But he said his particular one. He was like, fuck that. So he was like, no thank you, boy scouts, girl scouts. I'm just there for the cookies. But they also do amazing things. You know, like, it's good for little girls and boys who are into it. So I'm not going to, like, shit all over them.

But it's just, it's a strange organization to me personally. I don't understand it. But it's because I'm not an outdoorsy person. I am literally wearing a sweatshirt right at this very moment that says indoorsy. It's true. So we're really, like, we're really here. Funny day to pick that. My shirt says, what would Buffy do?

It certainly does. So obviously that should tell you how outdoorsy I am. She would not co-camping. I was sitting on my house watching Buffy the Vampire. I wasn't camping. So yeah, so it was named in honor of these two. They donated 24 of these acres to the camp initially. And then the camp was extended each year.

It's in Tulsa, by the way. And it's extended each year like acreage with money received from like Girl Scout cookie sales, donations, anything they could. Right. 1956 they planted a ton of pine trees all across the camp like really made it this like amazing place yeah that's awesome and it's a summer camp it's for girls to be you know independent do the summer camp stuff you know all that's i again i i am such like a like a theater kid i did not do even a hint of summer camp in my life i don't know what summer camp entails i know this campfires maybe a canoe

I went to, like my school put this thing on. It was called Nature and Me. And you went for like three nights, four days. And I came, my mom like, it was very expensive. My mom had to like scrape together the money to send me. I will give her that. But it was the worst experience of my entire fucking life. Like thanks mom. I'll credit you with that. But no thanks. But no thank you. Because it was horrific. Well, and it's, and we're going to get to like this part of it soon too. It's, I was never like a, I want to go stay away from my parents kind of thing, which we'll get into more. You're like, maybe. I'm like, well, that was the selling point.

But I never did any of these, but I obviously have seen enough summer camp things and no people went to summer camp. You were busy watching Friday the 13th and you were like, good luck out there, folks. I literally was watching Friday the 13th being like, went to summer camp. That's fine. Virtual summer camp. Camp Crystal Lake was great, guys. Thank you. But, you know, they did all the classic summer camp stuff.

And then, you know, the Girl Scouts, especially at this age, they teach them to be independent, which is great. Yeah, start a fire and shit. And these summer camps would happen in like two week increments. So these girls would come in for the first two weeks. They would leave. Another crop would come in for two weeks. So you were there for two weeks.

And they were young. I was like baffled. Oh, because first I was like, that's not really that long. But for little kids, that's a long time. As we'll find out, a couple of these kids were like nine, ten years old. Oh, yeah. That's really young, I feel like. I suck at that, so I don't know.

So 140 girls arrived for this camp session. Damn. Again, there were 12 campsites on this site, and they were named for Native American tribes, because in the area, it was a big Cherokee area, and there was like a lot of reservation land around. So this was named after these Native American tribes. Each of these little, like, units had their own, like, each of these units had like seven are eight tents to each of them. Oh, okay. Sure, sure, sure. So, and they were also separated into

like age group. So there wasn't cabins. They were straight up camping. Oh, yeah. And don't you worry, I'm going to tell you how janky this entire operation was because we start out and we're like, yeah, summer camp, it's going to be great independence. And then you're like, what the fuck were you all thinking? Oh, no. Like, and the poor parents didn't even know how janky this shit was. Oh, no. Yeah. I get angry at this camp. But like, you should, you should see the camp first. But I mean, I I think, yeah, it's just weird. So, yeah, so the youngest kids were put in the Kiowa unit. Okay.

And this was a unit with eight, technically eight tenths. But most people, when you'll research this, you'll see it's either, you know, there's either seven tents or eight tents. What it actually is is a seven camper tents and then one counselor tent. So they don't count the counselor tent as one of their tents. That makes sense. So technically the tent that we will be talking about a lot. is tent seven.

Okay. But some people refer to it as 108. It's hard when you're researching it. No, it makes sense. I see what you're saying. But just know that we are not counting the counselor's tent, which is a whole other thing, that the counselors have their own tent, and there's not counselors staying with these young girls.

Yeah, there should be at least one counselor in each tent for, like, for the children. Because that's what they do with, like, cabins. There's always a counselor staying in the cabin. 100. Like, that's like a liability. It's, and trust me, it is. So, yeah. So the three girls, we will.

be discussing, which I will name in a second, we're in the Kiowa unit. And that's where the youngest girls were. Now these cabin slash tents that we're talking about, when I say cabin, it's because they were made to look kind of like cabins, but they were straight up tents on a platform. Okay. Now, they were literally on a wooden platform that was 14 by 12 inches, or yeah, 14 by 12 feet, sorry, inches. I was like, what? So they were standing on their tiptoes, hugging each other the entire night. No, it was 14 by 12 feet wooden platforms. And then there was just a fabric tent on top of it. So all the walls were fabric. There was just a flap that stopped anybody from coming in or anyone from going out. We love that. When I saw these, I was like, what the fuck were you doing putting

children in these? In the middle of the woods. It was the 70s, right? Still. Yes, I mean still. What the fuck were you doing? Like there, anybody could come in and anyone could come out. And also, what about bears? Exactly. Hello? What about? What about? bears. You know what I mean? No, but I'm thinking like, kids leave food out. Kids leave food out and also like say a kid needs something in the middle of the night. They have to walk to the counselor tent. Like you could get eaten by a fucking bear. And, or coyote. All the lights were turned off at night in this camp. There was no lights. So it's literal pitch blackness. And when you look on, which we will post like

the pictures of the camp and like the map of the camp. So you can really get a visual of what I'm saying because it's hard when you're not looking at it. But we will post it on the so you can look, but there's like tons of woods surrounding this place. No, this sounds like my worst nightmare. They had put up a fence, but the fence was not even the entire way around the place. So there was just open forest at one point. Anybody going through the forest could definitely come in. And then there was a gate, but there was a lot of people that said that gate was not

keeping anyone out. No. It was just like somebody could climb over that gate. Like hop over it. Yeah. So again, not a good way of doing it. And then the thing that really just gets me is, is that they could hold the counselor's tent.

When you think of like seven kids in tents and one counselor's tent, my first thing was, okay, so you put the counselor's tent in the middle, and then you put the tents all around the counselor's tent. So they can see literally everybody at all times. Yeah, 100%. If you're not going to put a counselor in every tent, you better have them right there. Right. No.

That's not what they did. Was it at the end of a line? They had, here's the counselor tent, and then they all just went in a line. Yeah, that's stupid. So the counselors could see maybe two of these tents at any given time. The rest of them, you're on your fucking own. And you're in the pitch blackness next to woods where we can't see anyone who's coming. If I was in like the last tent, I would be like, Mom, can you pick me up?

I'm scared. Well, what's even sadder about what you just said is one of the girls did just that. Oh, awesome. So the little girls we're going to focus on are Doris Denise Milner, who went by Denise, Michelle Gusei, and Lori Lee Farmer. Denise was 10 years old, Michelle was nine, and Lori was eight. Jesus. Lori was the youngest at the camp, and she was, like, very gifted, very, like, mature for her age. But she was the youngest one at the camp.

So they were tentmates together, and what happened was, I guess when they first arrived, you can pick your own tentmates, and there's four girls to attend. These three girls happened to not know a lot of other people, so they were kind of left at the end. This entire thing is stressing me out so much. And so they met each other and we're like, yeah, like, we can be tentmates because we don't, you know, this is fine. We don't know anyone else. Yeah. They were supposed to have a fourth girl, but the fourth girl, due to some, like, weird error, ended up in another tent for the night.

And they didn't want to mess with them because they were like, we know she's in there, so let's not mess it around right now. So they were like, you know what, we'll put you in their tent tomorrow night. So an administrative error literally saved that little girl's life. life. Wow. Like she must have after this whole thing been like, holy shit. She had some kind of like guardian angel or something. There was something going on there. Some force of nature. So these three are going to share a tent and they happen to be in the tent the furthest away from the counselor's tent. Why would you put the youngest campers? The young, like the, an eight, nine and ten year old. Come on. Like to me, I'm sorry, negligent as fuck. Yeah, no. And like if, if you're going to put anybody in the tent and have it be like the

14, 15 year old girls. Exactly. It's like, what are you doing? And why would you set it up this way? That you can't see that fucking N-10. What is wrong with you? Right. Like, this is insane to me.

No, I agree with you. That's ridiculous. And it's like, I try never to put like blame on any of these people, but this can. Sometimes there's blame. What the actual fuck. Sometimes people have blood on their hands, unfortunately. And it's like they can, and you know, we can sit here and say, of course, there was never like a murderer.

I don't think at like a Girl Scout Boy Scout came. before this. So I don't think that was like, of course that wasn't first on their mind that someone's going to come in and murder kids. But it should be on your fucking mind. Yeah, you're in charge of kids. Anything can happen. You're in the middle of the wilderness. You have no idea who's out there. And it's like, I know that that's not first on your mind. But that should, unfortunately, we live in the world that you should, that should be on your mind. I know. I hate camping so much. You're really stressing me out. And what sucks is I just told Annie's mom that like I would go to camp this year because I didn't go last year because of Cove Cove. And now I'm retracting my statement.

I'm sorry, Donna. I'm retracting it. I'm sorry, Donna. I'm sorry, I can't go. Yeah, it's not after this. I mean, I wasn't, I am never sending my kids anywhere away from me ever for as long as they exist. Until they're 40. At least.

After reading this, I was like, oh, honey's never. And if one of them love them so much, but if one of them comes up to me someday and is like, I would like to go to summer camp, I'm going to be like, just sit down real quick. And then I'm going to hit play on this episode. And I'm going to be like, do you still want to go to summer camp? Hi, girls. Awesome. Do you still want to go?

No? No. Okay. Let's take you to theater camp. That'll be fun. Let's go do that. Let's just go hang out with T.T. Theater camp for a couple hours.

Mama picks you up. It's all great. All right. Let's do that. Day camp. Yeah. So the day that they showed up, what happened was they were all bust in and, you know, they met their tentmates. They picked their tent mates.

And then they would go probably do some of those, like, camp things that Elena doesn't know about. Swam. Because it's not like anything's documented here. We don't know exactly. what they were doing, just camp shit. Yeah. And then we do know that they had dinner at like the, I'm going to go ahead and call it a dining hall.

Was it? A dining hall? Sure, a dining building. They had that at like 5.36 o'clock. They all started eating. Somewhere around this time, it ended up pouring. I think it was actually like on the way out of the dining hall. The skies just opened up, thunderstorm pouring.

So this was a dark and stormy night. Nightmare. Literally a dark and stormy night. So they told them. them, you know, go back to your, you know, go dry up and there's not a whole lot to do. Go dry up while it fucking pours in your felt cabin. In your fucking fabric sheet that layeth upon a wooden plank in the middle of the forest that we can't see. So you're on your own eight-year-old.

Like, what? What? So they were like, yeah, go dry up. We can't really do a whole lot. So maybe you can get to know your tent mates. You can. And then I think they were like, why don't you write letters, huh? Like everybody, write your first letter, say how your first day at camp was.

Okay. So, again, we're talking about, let's talk about the three victims just so you can get an idea of who they are. So Lori, Michelle, and Denise went back to their tent, and I guess they sat down, they started writing letters. Now, Lori, again, eight years old. Like, you're going to kill me. She's from Tulsa.

Her father is a doctor. His name was Dr. Charles Farmer, known as like, Beau, Dr. Charles Bo. And her mother is Sherry. She was beautiful. I mean, the photo of this little girl, you're like, get out of my face. Oh, and the fucking pigtails. She's a sweet baby face.

I mean, she's just a beautiful, beautiful girl. She was exceedingly brilliant. I mean, exceedingly. And her father said she could, she spontaneously recited the Pledge of Allegiance at 16 months old. What the fuck? Yeah. Wow. Well, her dad's a doctor. Yeah, so I think it just passed on. She could do a hundred piece jigsaw puzzles by two.

What the f. So she's literally a genius. Like a prodigy. Like literally. She skipped the second grade and was determined to have an IQ of 130. What? And in second grade was thought to have a mental age of 10. Wow. So she was like really on it. In second grade, I had to get a bathroom chart because I used to go to the bathroom too much because I didn't want to be in class. Wow. Yeah. So not exactly a genius. So you were killing it. You weren't on Lori's level. I don't think anybody on Lori's level. Honestly, who is? So her father is actually now the emergency room director at Tulsa's St. John Medical Center.

And he's been that since 1977. So the year that this happened was when he got that job. So he actually, this is really sad. Her mother, Sherry, said that the thing that haunts her today is she said that Lori wasn't sure if she was going to go to this camp or a YMCA camp. No. And she couldn't, couldn't decide. So she turned to her mother and she was like, what do I do?

So she said, so I decided for her. Oh, my God. And then she also said, I also decided which week of camp to send her to, and I'll have to live with that decision for the rest of my life. And that's just like, you never would have known this. Like Sherry, you had no way of knowing that. You would never ever know. Of course that's going to weigh on you.

But no one would ever know that. But picture, because like obviously you know mom guilt. I feel like I'm not, obviously I'm not a mom, but I know mom guilt. Yeah. I can't imagine that level of mom guilt. Oh, I can't fathom. That is astronomical. That's beyond.

I can't even fathom it. I truly can't fathom it. Yeah, it's awful. So the letter that Lori wrote in her camp, we have all three of the letters. And it's really sad. Yeah, thanks a lot. her last letter said, Dear Mom and, because she was one of five kids.

Oh, wow. Dear Mom and Dad and Misty and Joe and Chad and Kathy. We're just getting ready to go to bed. It's 7.45. We're at the beginning of a storm and having a lot of fun. I've met two new friends, Michelle Goussay and Denise Milner. I'm sharing a tent with them. It started raining on the way back from dinner.

We're sleeping on Cots. I couldn't wait to write. We're all writing letters now because there's hardly anything else to do. With love, Lori. Oh. With love. She's eight and she's like with love mother and father. With love mother and father.

And like that's one of the things her parents said was like that with love at the end was just like, like just killed you. So that is Lori. Lori like sweetheart of sweet. I just want to like eat her up. Oh my God, I can't. And a baby eight. So we're also going to talk about nine year old Michelle Heather Goussay. She was from Broken Arrow.

She was very, very intelligent as well. All three of these girls were very smart. very intelligent girls. Yeah. Maybe that's why they just like gravitated towards each other. Yeah? She loved to read. She was very close with her family and her sibling, who was an older brother, Mike.

He was 13. Oh. She was shy. Like she wasn't very outgoing, but she was so sweet. And she became very like, she was most herself when she was playing soccer or doing the Girl Scout. She was really into it. Okay.

Michelle had attended Camp Scott the year before. Oh, wow. So she had already done this. She felt a little more comfortable. So her letter is to her Aunt Karen. Oh. And it says, dear Aunt Karen, how are you? I am fine.

I'm running from camp. We can't go outside because it is storming. Me and my tentmates are the last tent in our unit. My tentmates are Denise Milner and Lori Farmer. My room is in shades of purple. Love Michelle. Like her bedroom. Oh.

Her bedroom's purple. I love that. By the way, my bedroom's purple. It's pretty sweet. It's like, it's just so, like, innocent. It really is. So she was also, so she was known as being like very active and athletic. Like I said, she loved soccer.

Yeah. She also really loved raising plants. Her favorite being her African violets. Oh, okay. Very good care of. Meanwhile, I didn't even know what a lotus was a minute ago. Yeah, you know, I'm saying. Oh, yeah, the locust plant.

You know, the locust plant. She actually asked people before she left to take care of her African violets. Like that was her main concern. Yeah, it kills me. Sweetie. And we're going to go into these poor parents how they found out what happened to them because each of them have a story about that. And I'll get into that in a minute. But she wanted to be a math teacher like her mother.

Again, super excited about her purple bedroom. And Michelle was going to be turning 10 on the 22nd. And her mother had bought her a new bike that she had desperately wanted. Oh, thank you for leaving me with that. And Lori, I forgot to mention, Lori was going to be turning nine on the 19th. So their birthdays were super close. And Lori's family was planning to come and surprise her for her birthday. Oh, my God.

Now, the next one we're going to talk about is the one that truly breaks my heart. This is 10-year-old Doris Denise Milner of Tulsa. Her mother is Betty. Betty now says she has never visited Denise's grave because she literally can't. Like, she was like, I can't bring myself to go there. I don't know how people do. I can't even fathom. She said that her, so her father was Walter Milner and he was a police officer in Tulsa.

Oh, wow. He was actually awarded a Medal of Valor for his role in stopping a robbery suspect in 1996. Wow. He died of a heart attack at 53 in 1997. Oh, jeez. He's buried next to his daughter. Oh. She was also a very smart little girl, like I said.

Her teachers and principals said she was one of the kindest and sweetest little girls you would ever meet. she had saved her money by selling Girl Scout cookies to go to this camp. Wow. Yeah. In fourth grade, she got an award for having the best grades in her class. She taught herself to read and write at four years old. Jesus Christ. She loved learning.

She devoured books. She also loved dancing and gymnastics. She was just like a cool little girl. Yeah, all three of them just sound like the coolest little things. She had one little sister who was five at the time, and her and Denise were inseparable. Denise loved her. like took care of her. The one thing that she was most upset about was she didn't want to leave her little sister.

Oh. Yeah. I know. It like, it really breaks your heart. Because you're like, don't. Just don't. Just don't do it. And so when they, when she was saving up to go to this camp, she had saved up after selling the cookies.

And she had done this with a few friends. And at the last second, the friends backed out going to the camp. So she suddenly got very anxious about going and she was not psyched to go. Yeah, because she was very excited and then like, oh, I don't know about this. When your friends decide not to go, like we've all had something similar like that. Exactly. Especially when you're little too. That's the thing.

So her mom said in one of the articles I found about it, she said, but I convinced her that she should go and try it, that it would help her to be more independent and that if she didn't like it, all she had to do was call and we would come and get her. Oh, my God. Her letter that she wrote was the one that breaks my heart. Dear mom, I don't like camp. It's awful.

The first day it rained. I have three new friends, though, named Glenda, Lori, and Michelle. Michelle and Lori are my roommates. Mom, I don't want to stay at camp for two weeks. I want to come home and see Cassie and everybody. Your loving child, Denise Milner. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

So. The fact, oh, my God. I wish that she could have, like, told the counselor and they could have called the mom that night. Well, no, just wait. No, no, no. So when Denise got on the bus to go to camp initially, she, like, broke down, like, got upset. And a counselor, it was like a counselor in training. She was only 15.

I think she was a previous camper. Yeah. And she was helping out the older counselor. So she wasn't like a counselor. They didn't leave the kids with the senior. She was a CIT. Her name was Michelle Hoffman. And she testified that she saw this, like, saw her breaking down, approached her and

her mother and was like, I will sit with you. I'll like take care of you. Don't worry about it. So she sat with her on the bus and she like comforted her. And she said she like told her how fun it was going to be and all that good stuff. And she said she calmed her down a little bit. But before they had taken off on the bus, her mom, Denise's mom came on the bus. Yes. And was like, can you please make sure that if Denise wants to call me that you make sure she can call me. Like please help her call me. Right. So she was like, absolutely we will. Like no problem. So she was like, and she told her, if you want to come home, I will come and get you. But I want you to try it.

Yeah. Which is a smart thing to do as a parent, but one that must be the most difficult thing to do. I don't know. I honestly don't know if I couldn't do it. Yeah. I couldn't do it. But I think it is the smart thing to do in most circumstances to be like, just give it a try a try and if you don't like it.

And it's like you've made a commitment. You've worked hard to get there. Let's give it a shot. It's like when you want to do dance and then you decide you don't want to. And your mom is like, stick with it. Let's try to stick with it. Yeah. You don't want to quit stuff.

So she was like, just give it a try. If you don't like it, I will happily come and get you, which is a good morning. Haunting now. So Michelle said that she had calmed her down and she was like, she seemed like she was like acclimating a bit better that night. I don't think she was super psyched, but I think she was just homesick. And she made friends. Yeah, and she was just homesick. So after they ate in the dining hall at 6 p.m. 536, then they were told to write the letters in the tent, which we talked about.

And then they did have, which I'm like, oh my God, they had a story time with. all of them, gave them like some snacks, and then they were going back to the tents for bedtime. Now, apparently, according to one of the other counselors, Dee Elder, she said that Denise got upset and was suddenly like, can I call my mom? And this was at night, like, right before bedtime. So Dee said, like, she comforted her and was like, why don't you call her in the morning? Just give it a, just give it a night. And she was like, okay, so she convinced her. And at first, I was like, what the fuck, D? Let her call on. I'm mad. But I understand that, like, I think they are shown that because you know that doesn't make it better.

Calling your mom makes it worse because you're like, I want to see you. You know what I mean? I want to get you. Like, I know if I talked to my mom, it always like made it worse. I was like, please come get me. I miss you. And so I think that counselors, and I might be wrong, counselors can tell me, they are probably told to first line of defense try to convince the kid to stick it out before they. before they just immediately let them call home. Well, because you know eventually they are, like in most cases, that eventually they're going to acclimate and have a great time.

Nine times at a time. At the end of the camp, be like, oh, I'm so happy I stayed. And it's like, and if they wake up in the morning and they say, I'm still upset and I want to call her, absolutely calling. Right. So I can't fault any of them for that. That just, that must be hard. I couldn't do it.

Like, good for those counselors having to be able to do that. So step one, no. Step one, no. but I was that kid who would have been a fucking mess. Like I did not like leaving my parents. I never wanted to go away to camp. I went to a softball camp once. Yeah.

Like 40 minutes away from my house. I called my mom the first night. I was like, I can't stay here. And I was supposed to stay there for like a week. And I was like, no. I just couldn't do it. And I was like, so I was a total like home body. I did not like it.

So I feel Denise on like that. just breaks my heart that she felt that way and how it ended. It was just a confirmation of every greatest irrational fear that you have in that situation, which is, I want my parents, something bad is going to happen. I'm scared. I wonder if she had some kind of like feeling. You wonder. Like if she had a gut feeling that something bad and she couldn't pinpoint it, but she was like, I want to get the fuck out of here. Think about all the times you hear people like, like even 9-11 is the first thing that comes to mind. People that were supposed to get on that plane were like for some reason, I just didn't, I didn't want to. Like, it felt wrong. You know. Sometimes people

just know. And I think with kids, it's a feeling, but they can't really pinpoint it. So maybe she was just like, I don't like this. I'm not feeling good about this. Something's off and I want to call my mom. And her poor mother, hearing that must shatter you. I hate this so much. I can't even pet them. So, yeah, I told you this is a, it's a rough one. I love kids so much. This is a really hard right now. It's a really rough one. But I think it's one that needs to be told mainly, one to like, because they need justice. Right, because it's unsolved. This is unsolved and it's infuriating.

And I want them to solve this shit. I just want to go to your house after this and like snuggle with the girls. Just hug the girls. I know. So lights out was technically between like 10 and 1030 where they're like, all right, guys, you got to come down and go to sleep. It's pretty late. They never went to sleep right then, you know.

And it's the first night. Anytime you're at like a sleepover or anything. Like that's not going to be it. No. So they were all like giggling, telling, you know, probably like spooky stories and all that. Yeah. So around 1230 a.m., which is technically June 13th, a counselor, Carla, I think it's white, Carla Willite.

Willite, that's what it is, Carla Willite. These counselors are like between 18 and 20 years old. So they're older, enough that. Young to be taking care of 140 kids. Very young. Yeah. But older, like not a 15-year-old. Yeah.

You feel a little better. Yeah, like, hopefully. I don't want a 20-year-old in charge of any of my children for two weeks. No, I don't want that. But I wouldn't. This just isn't my scene at all. So Carla Willite woke up and she heard, you know, some of the girls were laughing. And they seemed like they were coming from like the bathroom.

So she was like, I got to go get them. Yeah. So she got up. They were. They were just like giggling in the bathroom together. Like just being little girls. So, and it wasn't them. It was like some other campers.

And so she, you know, brought them back to their tent. tent by tent, I believe it was tent technically one. So she had to bring them all the way back to tent one. Yep. She was like, guys, you got to go to sleep. Go back to sleep. So 1.30 a.m., Carla and the other counselor D, wake up and hear more girls giggling in tent four.

So they're like, fucking go to sleep. Which I'm sure this is a very regular night. Oh, yeah. At this point, like, you're constantly waking up all night, probably. Yeah. So Carla goes to that tent, and as she's walking to the tent, she hears this weird sound from the perimeter, like the forest. And she's like...

And when she explains it, you can tell, like, she's like, uh, like this was not an animal. That was the fuck was that. That was my ice maker. Scared the shit out of me. That was really good timing. You can tell, Carla was like, it was like an ice maker. It was weird.

No, it was a low, guttural moaning sound, she said. Uh-huh. A cross between like a frog and like a bullfrog and like something else. It was like a guttural moan. Do you remember the bullfrogs in Maine? I hate it. I hate it. I used to have a house in Maine when I lived with my life donor.

And holy shit. Holy shit. That place was so creepy. And the frogs at night sound like they're screaming. Yeah, it sounds like people screaming. Literally sounds like a bunch of murderies. And that's the thing. It's like these counselors, a lot of them were campers at one point.

They've all done this. They've all been trained in this. So maybe that's some kind of animal. Well, for her to be like, that's not an animal. Like, I don't know what that is. means bad news bearable. So she was like, it was a little weird. So she shone the flashlight over there and then it just stopped.

Oh, fuck that. But she said she heard it like on and off throughout the night. So she was like, what the fuck? And she said, she also ended up seeing a very dim light in the forest. It looked like dim and small. And she was like, what the fuck is that? Yeah. So she was like, what is that?

And so she shone her light at it and it turned off. Fuck that. And she was getting. freaked out herself and she's like, I think I'm just like seeing shit and like being, I don't know. So during, so she ends up. Yeah. And you're in charge of all these kids. So she tells the girls in the kid like, you know, you're going to be quiet.

And then she rushes back to her tent because she's like, I don't want to be out here. I don't want to like blame her for anything, but she should have checked on all the tents. Yes. Well, there's nothing that says that each time they checked on each one, but she very well could have. It's just not listed. It's not listed in there. I hope she did. I hope she did.

But to be honest, she probably didn't because there was a point where something really bad happened and she had no idea. So during this time also while everyone's sleeping, there were items stolen from the tents. Somebody was reaching in and taking things. I'm sorry. What? Because they were missing like purses, like a ton of, a lot of eyeglasses were stolen, which will come back later.

So like hang on to that little nugget that like eyeglasses were taken. And then there comes in another report. Some other counselor and some other campers saw that dim light in the woods and it was near the Kiowa unit. Uh-huh. So they're like this is weird. And it's not like a flashlight flashlight. It was dim. So they were like, what is that?

Now, I'm picturing like those candles that you put in your windows during the holidays. It kind of, I think it was kind of like that. Yeah. Or like a flashlight that somebody had put something over to make it not as bright. Then campers heard. screaming. Oh, no. And people apparently ignored this because kids and giggling and screaming and I mean, you know my kids, they scream all the time. Oh my God. And they taught the youngest time

screaming. Yeah. So anybody listening would think that they were in like great peril, but they're just running around. Yeah, they're just literally sitting there screaming at each other. So I'm sure these kids are probably doing the same thing all night, which it's like, sure. But like maybe go check. Yeah. I don't know. Just check. There's no, there's no harm in overchecking. I feel. I would be in these tents every 10 minutes, which like, honestly, I feel like they should have had some kind of system where you check every, like, half hour. I think there should have been shifts done that every half hour, someone has to wake their ass up and they have to walk to every tent, make sure everybody's okay, go to sleep,

next one does it in the next half hour. I mean, you're a camp counselor. It's not supposed to be, it's a job. Yeah, you're not having the most fun. So get up, go do it. Yeah, I think that should definitely be a thing. So get up. So, yeah, so then 2 AM rolls around and the other unit near the Kiowa unit heard another like screaming kind of voice.

And then they reported that they heard a girl and this is really going to hurt say scream mama mama. Oh, nope, nope. Again, later, they would say that, you know, it's always loud, especially the first night. kids are giggling and screaming but I'm sorry yelling mama though mama I don't care if the kids sleeping and saying it in their sleep go check mm-hmm I mean you're some kids yelling mama that right that's to me that would be I'd be so I'd be there quicker than I could blink yeah that's like a warning that should be an instinct of like go take care of that person yeah that should set off alarm bells again I don't know I'm not blaming these counselors because again they were 18 to 20 year olds no

way not equipped to deal with this shit. And on top of it, who I am blaming is the camp. Yeah. Because the camp directors and the like people running this shit did not prepare these counselors for shit by the way. Right, right. Because they had like a meeting beforehand, obviously, where they were told like security measures and all that.

But were there security measures? Clearly not. And they basically were just told like, you know, if you see anybody an intruder in the woods or anything, tell them it's private property. Okay. Like, do you think a murderer gives a fuck? I'm pretty sure they know. you shouldn't and it's like they weren't taught to deal with like what if somebody comes in to tax a kid

what do I do like you like can we have pepper spray you should have at the very least I and it's like most people that I read would say like well no one could have planned for this of course not but that's why you have the end of the world apocalyptic plan that like if everything falls to shit this is what you do it sounds like there was like virtually no precaution here yeah like at all like there needs to be some kind of precaution these yeah they needed to the whole thing was set up poorly. The fact that these counselors were in their own tent away from all the other kids. Yeah, I hate that.

But they couldn't even see the kids. It's like nothing made sense. This doesn't make sense. It's not safe. No. It's not safe. No. And later, one of the parents of one of the victims said if they had seen the tent that their kid was going to sleep in,

they would have never allowed their kids. Oh, I believe that. I wouldn't sleep in that. Fuck that. No. Anybody, like you just said anybody reaching, can just read them. Reach right the fuck in. No. It's just flapped. No. Like there's nothing. No. Yeah. So during the same night, in the Kiowa unit, which is the unit the three victims were in, in tent number six, I believe,

one of the girls said she woke up in the middle of the night to a light, a flashlight shining in and somebody like opened the flap. And she said when she sat up and looked, it was clearly a man standing there with a flashlight flashed at her. And she said they sat there and stared at them. And then they put. put the flap down and walked away towards the last tense. What? So I don't know what that's about. I don't know, like, to me, that's really creepy. And they said it was very much of like a big male.

What? And they said it flashed it. And all the counselors said, we did not do that. That was not us. That's terrifying. Yeah. So to me, that was the killer. And here, okay, so this is just like my true crime mind being like fucked up.

I wonder if he like saw those girls and were like, they're older. Like, no thanks. Yeah, I wonder if, who knows why these ones were chosen? To me, it seems like they were chosen because they were the last ones in the row, furthest away. But it's weird that he just, like, looked at those girls and I was like, nah. Yeah, and it could be because he's shown the flashlight in there and she woke up. Yeah. Because what we'll see is it seems like at least two out of the three of the victims were, you know, bludgeoned in their sleep, basically.

So I don't think they were looking for people. They didn't want kids screaming, I think. they wanted silence. Now, 6 a.m. the next morning. So, like, it's weird night,

whatever. Yeah, that was really fucking weird night. 6 a.m., Carla wakes up, the counselor, and she's like, I'm going to be the first one to get to the showers.

The showers were actually the thing that was really blocking the view to the last tent. Like, the whole building was blocking it. So there was no way they could see that last night. So they were like behind a building?

Yeah, they were literally, it's like wraps around. It's like the, the shower is in the middle. And then the, tents kind of wrap around in a semicircle around the shower extending out from the counselor's tent. Okay. So theirs was kind of wrapped around the back of that building where you couldn't see them.

That's fucked up. Yeah, totally obstructed. No way. So this is 6 a.m. Carly gets up. She's on her way to the shower. And as she's walking, she notices some sleeping bags near the roadside. And it was like outside of their tent.

And she's like, what's going on? So she's like, that's weird. So she's like, I should go see if somebody like drop their stuff when they were coming in or what. So this, now, they were approximately 150 yards from the last tent. So these sleeping bags, which were the victim's sleeping bags, were 150 yards from their tent. Yeah. And passed to the counselor's tent. Yeah. So whoever did this, walk to them past the counselor's tent. Yeah, that's not good. Now when she approaches the sleeping bags, she sees the battered body of Denise Milner on top of one of them. She is not in good shape.

She is nude from the waist down. Oh, no. Her night shirt had been pulled up. Her hands were bound behind her back with tape and cord. What? She had been strangled with cord, which was still around her neck. She had also been bludgeoned in the face. There were also two other sleeping bags near her body, but they were both zipped up completely.

Oh, God. Now, before she does anything, Carla runs back to the counselor's tent and wake D and the other counselor, Susan Ewing, to have them check all the other tents, like all the tents. Yeah. Because they don't know at first. Who the fuck is this? I don't even know. Like, go check to see who's missing.

So they run and they check all the tents. They see that the girls are missing in the last tent. So Carla then goes and gets the nurse because she didn't touch the body. She was like, I don't know what's going on. Runs and gets the nurse and is like somebody is, there's a medical event. I don't know what's going on. Here it is. Go find it.

So the nurse runs. towards Denise. And while that's happening, she runs, Carla then runs to the camp director's home, which is very nearby, it's like right on the campus, and tells her what's going on. This is Barbara Day and her husband, Richard, they both come out to the scene. The nurse immediately informs them, Denise is very dead. Richard attempts to move one of the other sleeping bags because they didn't know at this point what was going on. Yeah. Discovered there's something very heavy in both of them. So Richard then takes the third, this just like hurt my soul, Richard took the third sleeping bag that Denise was on top of and actually placed it over her.

So no one would see her naked lower half. And he said he was like, I just wanted her to like maintain her dignity. The youngest. She's the oldest. Sorry, okay. She was the 10 year old. But I mean she's fucking 10. Denise is the one who didn't want to come to camp and wanted to call her mother.

Yeah. So Richard, which I was like good for him, like trying to maintain her dignity. not awesome for crime scene, but like, I would do the same thing. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. For my heart, sure, that give me a little like. Even knowing all that I know, I feel like I would have to. Yeah, it's like an innate feeling. And I feel like that's like a, because they also had a child, so I feel like that's a very paternal, maternal thing. Yeah. So the police come, they open the bags and inside of the two bags that were zipped up is the body of Lori Farmer and the body of Michelle Guse. They had both died of

blunt force trauma to the back of the head. They think that they were struck while they were sleeping. Later, it was determined that they had been bludgeoned and both killed inside the tent because of the massive amounts of blood they founded the tent near their beds and spattered on the canvas walls around their beds. Denise, they think, was taken into the woods alive and then murdered. What? She was on top of the sleeping bag.

The other two were likely carried out into the woods in their sleeping bags. they think that she was walked out there, Denise, like fully with it awake alive. Walked past the counselor's tent. And what happened, and we'll find out why nobody heard her or anything like that. Were the other two bound like she was? So Michelle was slightly bound. Her arms were bound to the sides of her, almost in a hog-tie position. Lori was not bound.

Okay. Michelle, yeah, so it's strange. She was bound with the same cord to the sides of her, not in the back, not in the front. It was like a weird hog tie thing. That's strange. They did find out later that Denise and Michelle were raped. Oh, my God. Seamen evidence was found during autopsy, but Lori was inconclusive and it's possible she was just killed immediately, they think, because she also bore very little, like, outward injuries to her.

the other two were much more gruesome and much more like a parent. So maybe like, oh, who was the middle one again? Sorry. Michelle. Michelle, maybe she like woke up in the middle of it. Yeah, they think that Michelle was killed second. They definitely think Lori was killed first. Michelle second and then, Denise.

All three girls were sexually assaulted, were molested. But Denise and Michelle were the ones that were actually raped. They were the ones that they found semen. That's sickening. Yeah. On scene, among other things, they found beer bottles. and a crowbar that could have been used because they said their injuries were so extensive, especially the other two.

Right. But again, 77, what are you going to do with it? Your bottles. Yeah. The thought of that being used. Yeah. Michelle was, like I said, was found with the same cord that was wrapped around. Denise was wrapped around her arms.

Denise was killed by asphyxiation, likely strangulation with the ligature, although she did have bludgeoning to her face, but that's not what killed her. And she had a fabric gag stuffed in her mouth. Oh. And the gag was like sewn, like a handmade gag. What the fuck? So this person had planned this out like a lot. What?

That is sick. So she was likely, there was also, I read in some reports that she was also blindfolded. Oh, no. So she was likely walked out there with a gag in her mouth with her hands behind her back. Potentially blindfolded. And that's why no one could hear her. blindfolding and gagging is just removing all senses. It's like, it stresses me out.

So Officer Harold Barry was the first officer on scene, and he was there quickly because he actually lived very close by. Thank God. He made it, he tried to cordon off that scene as best he could. He like really went for it. Sheriff Pete Weaver arrived very quickly after Harold. It was determined immediately that Denise was the last killed, obviously, and that she was definitely more recently killed.

the other two by like a good amount. Interesting. She was kept alive a little longer. Denise had a body temp of around 70 degrees Fahrenheit. And Lori and Michelle had already begun to show, go into rigor. So they were definitely killed before her. Investigators said Lori in particular looked like she was sleeping and could just wake up. Oh my God.

They said her injuries, like I said were not very obvious. It was to the back of her head. That must have been horrible to see. Because for some reason, even when you know that somebody's dead, I feel like they probably I'd hope like, oh, she's going to wake up. And just this, like, little angelic baby face, this eight-year-old. Like, think of, oh, don't think of anything. Yeah, I was going to say, don't think of anything.

Sorry. But the other two had much more apparent injuries and were, like, much more gruesome. Peaceful. Yeah. So near the bodies, investigators also found a big red six-volt flashlight. And the one with, like, those ones with the handles. Yeah. Like, the big, like, bucket ones.

And this thing had a weird cover over the, lens. Like, and the lens had a pinhole cut into it. Oh, that's weird. So that it would cast a very dim light. Yeah. Like the one, people said they saw in the woods. So this person was clearly fucking lurking around and people had seen him. Yeah, that's weird as fuck. Yeah. Also, inside the flashlight, they later discovered that there was like wadded up newspaper that was in there to keep the battery connected. Oh, because and also sometimes, like it like jiggles and you can hear it. Yeah, that's, so it's like, Yeah, so they would put that in there to keep it in place. They found, and that's going to come back later, so just remember that little newspaper.

There was also a house's newspaper. There you go. So there was also a partial role of black electrical tape, which I grew up with electrical tape. Same. My house everywhere, because my dad's an electrician and so is my brother. One time, Alina and her brother, my uncle, the electrical taped me to a chair, like for funsies. We did. I was the youngest.

You know, sibling things. There was also the cord that was found around two of the girls, a pair of glasses, and then inside the tent was bloody shoe and boot prints. Okay. So they were already like, what the fuck. Can you imagine working this scene? No. No way.

No. And there's pictures, like not gruesome pictures or anything, you can't see them, but you can see the scene and you can see like the officer standing over the scene and they just look like, like most of them are just standing there with their heads. down like what the fuck also imagine being a little girl in the tent like imagine being 106 well that's the other thing so immediately they'll have to go home right we have to close this down and they have to go home but we can't they were like we can't tell any of the campers they can't know no which we'll get into uh so the autopsy also later determined that which this is strange because it's like people

are like how did he how did they do three girls like one person yeah multiple people yeah and then seeing the boot prints and And the sneaker prints in there in the tent. Mm-hmm. Kind of leads you to believe this more than one. Because where the sneaker prints, like, full, like adult shoes. That's what they, so some of them were found to be adult shoes, like seven and a half. You know what I mean?

Like actual adult shoes. And the boot print was like a military boot print. Yeah. But there was also a lot of contamination of the scene. And some of the, like, federal officers that came in here actually accidentally left a palm print in the scene and shit. How the fuck to you accident? You're a federal officer. and you accidentally leave a print.

It was a pretty botched scene at some point. It's not good. Like, come on. You're dealing with a triple homicide of the chill. And it looks like they tried initially to keep this contained, and then it just all fell apart. Right. So the autopsy later determined that weapons were used on the girls

with someone using their left hand and right hand. So it's either that somebody switched hands or it's somebody who's left-handed and somebody's right-handed. That's true. I mean, if you think about one person, though, you're obviously your arm's going to get fucking tired. So maybe you're switching. Yeah.

And then also though, there were different knots in some of the. So that can either be someone switching it up or it can be two different people tying them. This is like a weird thing to say, but think of like switching hand. It would be like I couldn't use a hammer with my left hand. No, my left hand would not get good. I couldn't. Yeah. So like we were just talking about the camp immediately closed because they were like holy shit.

Right. But they tell the parents? They didn't tell any of the campers. What they told the parents. was an accident happened. Yeah, that's one way to put it. Yes. So they bust them from Camp Scott to Tulsa Girl Scout,

Magic Empire Council Headquarters, which is like the place that, wow, runs the Girl Scout thing. Magic Empire. Meanwhile, they called the parents, said there was an accident. They did tell these three parents that their children died in an accident.

And then when they said, what, what? They said nothing else. Can't tell you anything else. You have to, though. That's their parents. So now all these other parents, though, are just being told there's an accident and girls have died.

But they're not telling them who. So these other parents don't know? Are showing up to pick their kids up at this place. Fucking panicking, being like, is my child there? Like, what is going on? It's just fucking crazy. What the fuck? Yeah, not knowing who was the one in the accident.

And the accident. Yeah. So at 1140, it wasn't until like 11 p.m. that Richard Goussay, who's Michelle's father, was called at work by his wife, George Ann, who told him Michelle was dead, but she had no idea how, like didn't know anything about it. Because if like, I mean, you're at like a summer Girl Scout camp, it's like you're thinking drowned. And obviously no matter what your child's dead, that's horrific. Yeah. But you don't know that your child has been murdered brutally and assaulted? thing that kills me. And what kills me even further is we'll find out in a second. The way they did find out is shameful. Well, because think of it, that's like two hits. Yeah. Like, oh, first you think

your kid died and you're just, you're thinking it's an accident. You're grieving an accident. And then you get told they were brutally murdered. That's a completely different hit from a totally different side. Exactly. That's like once, when it's an accident, it's bad enough. That's a whole different thing. Your child died at their first day of summer camp. Then to hear that they were raped and murdered. What? Like you're already trying to figure out what the fuck happened and then you get that. Well, and then Lori Farmer's parents were not able to be contacted initially because they were both at work.

And so the camp officials used their emergency contact who was a family friend. So it was the family friend who happened to who had to call and tell them like Lori died. And they were like, what do you mean? And she was like, it's an accident. I don't know. And they were like, what the fuck? And to put that on somebody else, Jesus. Yeah.

So Bonnie Brewster, who was a friend of the farmer family, she was also the executive director of the Magic Empire Council. She refused to tell this family what had happened to Lori and wouldn't even tell them what she had for dinner that night. Like wouldn't give them any information. These poor people waited hours and hours and hours. Why couldn't they say what she had for dinner? And one of the things,

Lori's father is quoted as how he found out. It was from the executive director of the Girl Scouts. I found out later that we were the third people they called. First, they called their insurance company. Second, their attorney. Then they called us. What a bunch of shit stains. Fuckers.

Fuckers. Called their fucking insurance company. And then an attorney before they called an eight-year-old baby. these parents to tell them that under their fucking watch, under their janky-hass operation, their daughter was brutally murdered and no one fucking knew about it. You call your insurance company first? It is insane to me. Are you a human?

Are you a human? You want to know how these parents found out that their children were murdered? How? The news. The news. All of them saw it on the fucking news. Because this camp and these directors and these fuckers would, wouldn't tell them shit.

And they had to find out on the fucking news. The media found out before the next of kin. That's insane to me. When that happens, it's so fucked up. It's like when we were talking about the Lauren Giddings case and her father found out through like her uncle. Yeah. Because of the media.

Wow, that's so fucked. It is so being. How do you sit there? Like obviously that, I'm sorry. Obviously that person didn't have kids or like care about a kid at all because how do you sit there and call your insurance company? and your attorney and then be like, you know, well, I guess next I have to call their parent. Yeah, I guess I should call the parents of this little baby.

Like obviously you don't want to. I get that, but. But that's your first call. What? Like, fuck the insurance, fuck the attorney, call the parents and let them start the grieving. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Well, why didn't the police contact the parent? It's insane. None of that makes sense.

None of that makes any sense. The entire thing is insane. Obviously, it's hard because I'm sure nothing like this had ever had. happened before. Oh, of course not. But what? And that's the only thing that you can grip on it to is like, I'm sure it was fucking pandemonium and no one knew what to do because again, you do not think that Girl Scouts are going to be brutally murdered on their first day of camp. That's never happened. So it's like, of course this is going to be fucked up. But use the thing between, I'm going to say something my dad always says, use the thing between your ears.

Gray matter. Use the gray matter between your ears. Can I ask, well, ruin the story if I ask if the camp opened up the next year. No, we'll ruin the story. The camp closed down and never opened up again. Okay, good. I'm happy to hear that. And some people were upset about it, but to those people, I say, what the actual fuck? I would go ahead and send them a heavy fuck you.

I also say, who in their right mind would send their kid to a camp after this? Who was mad? This camp after this. Parents were mad? The people, well, H.J. and Florence there, their child, I think their son took over the whole thing after them, and was like, I think it should have been opened up. Like, it's a tragedy. You feel, you would feel good. You would feel safe having kids there.

Also, like, kids eventually watch the news. Like, they're going to hear their parents talking about it. You think any fucking kid would want to come there ever again? And it's like, yeah, honey. You know the shit you're going to be dealing with at midnight? And it's like, yeah, honey. I know, like, you just saw that three girls were raped and murdered at that camp. But, like, suck it up, Buttercup.

Just go and give it a try. What? No. No. You know what he was mad about and I have no problem saying it? He lost money. And I don't give a fuck. Yeah, this is money.

This was not thinking of human beings. over anything else. People are so fucked. Sorry, we just got, I'm not sorry. Sorry, I'm not sorry. I'm fucking pissed. Sorry, not sorry. And the farmer family still feels the Girl Scout Council should absolutely be held accountable

for the safety and what happened to them. There was a lawsuit later, which we're going to get into in part two, that is infuriating. They, the fire, I'm sure they didn't want it just because you said it's infuriating. I'm pissed. So, yeah, it's just so frustrating. So now they're just trying to, now it's like a manhunt. Who the hell did this? They're trying to figure out who did this.

June 14th, so the next day, a camper named Wilma Tennant said that she was the one who woke up and she heard screams and she said, she told a counselor and that the counselor told her everything's fine, go back to sleep. Nope, everything's not fine. A girl is in the middle of the woods dying. Exactly. On that same day, they actually took the wooden platform from the tent and they actually airlifted it to a crime lab.

Wow. So they could test everything. There was a ton of blood on the floor. But it looked like someone had wiped it up or attempted to wipe it up. According to Girl Scout Murders.com, which I suggest you go to that website, they have every bit of information you need about this. Wow. You could get lost for hours.

Is that just this case? Or were there more Girl Scout murders? Just this case. Yeah. It's a little misleading. It looked like they had used towels and also had used the sheets off the beds. The sheets were found crumpled up in the, uh, sleeping bags. So whoever did this stuck around and cleaned up a little. Trying to wipe it up. That's weird.

Yeah. They also found that tennis shoe and boot print in there so they wanted to do further testing on it. So I just want to put out there because already we're like, what the fuck camp, Scott, what is going on. Yeah. Well, let me tell you a couple things that happened at this camp before. Like in years previous. Yeah. And very close like weeks previous. That no one was being mentioned to do. I'm going to have to walk away. So on the Saturday before the camp opened, before this one opened, the camp director's husband, Richard, came across a stranger walking around the camp. And he was carrying a clear plastic jug. And he was just like, this is private property. Okay. But like nothing else was done about it.

Awesome. That's probably fine. So there was a camp ranger named Ben Woodward. He was like one of the only males on the campground. He was also a caretaker. he was like a part-time counselor, part-time caretaker. Sure. He had found right before the session a slashed tent flap.

And he said there was like a four to five square inch section that was removed, that somebody had clearly removed. That's called a fucking warning sign. And he said it was sometime in the hours before all of these girls arrived on that Sunday. That's a warning sign. That's like, hi, I'm about to fuck shit up because I'm crazy. Oh, yeah. And then the week before this opening, two counselors said they were followed back to their tents by someone with a flashlight in the woods

and another counselor saw a man literally outside of her tent. And then counselor Michelle Hoffman, the 15-year-old, she said that somebody had brought like donuts in, I think it was in during the like session that they were doing right before the camp open where they like told them everything. Yeah. Somebody brought donuts in a box that the donuts were taken out of the box and somebody had left a note in the box. That said. And it said, she testified to this. It said, in capital letters, it was printed, we are on a mission to kill three girls in tent one. And it was signed the killer

or something like that. What? Yep. And you opened up the camp. Yep. And Michelle Hoffman said, the note scared the shit out of her. So she brought it to the counselors. But the Barbara Olmsted, the coordinator of the spring spring session, said it's probably just a print. and she threw the note away. So when this all happened, what a cunt. And when this all happened, they were like, where's that note?

And she was like, I tossed it. Why would you throw that away, you idiot? That is literal evidence at this point. You're an idiot. Like, are you kidding me? She testified that she said when they, and this is astounding to me, she was like, well, when she gave me that note,

when the counselors gave me the note to, like, tell me that this had happened, they didn't tell me that a tent had also been ransacked. I don't give a fuck. I don't think you need any more context other than we're going to kill little kids in tent one, you dumb asshole. That's what, because I'm like, are you dumb? Okay, Babs. Okay.

What? Let me just, let me attempt to get into that fucking abyss that you call a cranium. And just think about this for a second. So a counselor comes to you and she says, hi, hi, hi, there's this letter that was left in a donut box, which like rude, they took the donuts. But it was left in a donut box and it's like, we are literally on a mission to kill three little girls in your camp. And intent one, like we're prepared. And hearing that, she was like, okay, and? And if she was like, and also they made a mess in there.

What? Like that's when you would lose it? Like the ransacking is the thing that she didn't tell me. The note is signed the killer. And you're like, you know, well, can you get an extra. extra sleeping bag from the cabin over there? You know what? Come back when you have something solid. And then she's like, well, somebody did make a mess in there too.

And she's like, well, fuck, we need to call the FBI. What? Like a what? They felt, that is just, that's full. Unbelievable. Yeah. So the same year, April 1st, so this was like what. Wait, hold on.

So obviously, sorry to totally interrupt you. But obviously somebody and at least one person, but probably multiple people are just like camping out in the woods, like waiting for this. shit to open seeing how fucking janky this operation is. Oh yeah. Because like why do you think they pick tent one? Of course. They know this whole operation. Yeah. Arnemy is like, were they at that meeting? Like what is going on? And we'll find out the more shit they find in those woods that people were hanging around waiting for this shit. Obviously. And then back in April, so like about a month or two before it opened, there was money stolen in the camp by someone. There was a peeping Tom reported

at like the year before. So this is clearly like a buildup of crazy events. And they have done nothing to secure this place after all these events. That's what kills me. Yeah, this is a, these are all warning signs. Of course they couldn't prevent people being dicks. But when people are dicks and show up and like start fucking with shit, you do shit to make it more secure. That's what you're supposed to do. Well, and to me, this is somebody that's like starting off small to be like start scary a little bit bit, scary a little bit more, scary a little bit more. Here is what I'm going to do. And I think you're too dumb to even stop me. Yeah. And then you are. And then this happens. Of course. Exactly. It's insane. Wow. Wow. Now, June 14th, that same day, like, so the day after this all

happened, there was a group of campfire girls that were supposed to be showing up into their camp, which was like a different camp down the way. Okay. And they began their summer sessions and they had to be accompanied by armed guards, but they stayed. What? I'd be like, were their parents told? I'd be like, fuck that shit. They saw it on the news. If my kid had to, like, wanted to go to this summer camp and they were like, yeah, so

like, we're still going to have it all set up and there's going to be armed guards. I'm sorry. No. That's traumatic in and of itself. Armed guards. I went to camp with an, I had an armed guard assigned to my camp. That's the thing. Well, and then Camp Garland, which was a Boy Scout camp, was only three miles away from this camp,

and it stayed open. No. This whole thing is a fuckery. Only 13 parents came to get their kids that day. I'm sorry, parents. What the fuck is up? Like, what? What the fuck is up, Kyle?

It was never closed. And then June 15th, the next day is when they brought in some tracker dogs, because they were like, we got to start bringing out the big guns. The media called these dogs the wonder dogs. They were two German shepherds and one Rottweiler that were specially trained for, like, cadaver dogs and, like, tracking dogs. That's awesome. Their names were Harris, Dutch, and butts.

Buts? I love it. I love butts. And they were flown in from Pennsylvania. I'm pretty sure it was boots or something, but it looks like butts. It's buts. I'm good. So they were able to track where the killer had entered and where they had exited.

Yeah. They followed a scent. They determined the killer or killers had walked by the counselor's tent to get where the scent was leading to the victim's tent. So they entered this camp through the front, right past the counselor. tent got the girls and then walked them right past the counselor's tent again. Here's the other deal. Why is there not some kind of security guard at the front of this like operation, quote unquote, operation. This scenario. Wow. Yeah. So, yeah. So then three of the counselors were questioned on the 16th. They said that eyeglasses and glasses cases were stolen. That is just weird. What's that

mean. One of these were found like along the path that the killer took. So they were like, of course they were questioning these girls being like, what the fuck. And they were like, yeah, that was stolen from me. And again, they said that there was a blue denim purse that was stolen from the counselor's tent. And it was in the Kiowa unit. And it was done the night of the murders. Oh, that's freaky. She said she went to bed and that was in her purse was there. Yeah. That's terrifying. So a telephone hotline was set up for people to call in. they were hoping that the killer would just call and confess because of like guilt. So they just put it up there to be like, just let's give it a shot.

You just killed for your little children. Yeah. And the district attorney at the time said sometimes people with deranged minds just want to be caught. Yeah. Think of like the weepy voice killer. Yeah. The Oklahoma governor, David Boren, on the 21st, said that he would bring in the National Guard to help this.

But the sheriff weaver said no. Why would you say no? Because he was like, we're fine. You're not. I'm sorry, Sheriff Weaver. Like, you've not dealt with something like this before. Like, get the fucking help. Whenever they refuse help, I'm like, can you just put that fucking ego down for one goddamn second and let the help come in?

Especially when it comes to a child murder. A triple homicide of children in a fucking Girl Scout camp, this is unprecedented. And you're going to be like, nope, I got this. No, you don't. No, you don't. So he was like, no, thank you. Stupid. Yeah.

It's insane. They ended up questioning five Boy Scouts at a nearby at the Camp Garland. Because in May, I guess, what was it? This kid who they described as pale and skinny, like a teenager, said he came into the Boy Scout camp while they were camping. Yeah. And he just like ate food with them and like didn't speak to anybody. Pretty weird. And then he stole a hatchet, a hunting knife and like some, I think some food and then just left. And they were like, yeah. And they were like, did you tell anyone? And they were like, yeah. Did anyone do anything?

No. What? Like, okay. So they were like, good, good. That's scary. So now they're starting to investigate, because they're not getting any leads at this point. Just shit was going down, but we don't know what. So much shit was going down.

But there's nothing to latch on to. No. So after, see, they started investigating because, again, they have a lot of evidence at the scene, but like not a lot they can do with it. Right. That's the problem. So they look into. the tape and the rope that was on Denise and on Michelle.

Yeah. And they found that this particular tape and cord had been stolen out of a nearby farmhouse. It was a farmhouse that sat on an 110-acre ranch. It was owned by 51-year-old Jack Schroff. And he said his home was burglarized. There was things stolen from it. And that tape and cord matched part of things that were in his house. So, and then there was also evidence that a campfire had been set up

that night at a pond on the property of the ranch. So somebody was like hanging out waiting. That is so spooky. So of course when they see that shit matches stuff in his house, they're like, okay, Jack. What were you up to that night? So he ended up having an alibi. He was like out of town and they confirmed it. Yeah. He also voluntarily took a lie detector test and he passed. Sorry, Jack. But while this is going on, the newspaper prints his photo in it with the word slayer under it. Oh my God. Which he was completely cleared.

Right. And they, like, what the fuck? Now we're just going to alienate this man. Holy shit. That's awesome. So then, so now they've totally fucked this guy over. What is up 70s? Because then they were like, whoops, sorry, he's fine.

And they like, they like update it, not a slayer. And now they're like, who could have done this? Like, we don't have any idea. So then Sheriff Weaver out of nowhere is like, what about this guy named Gene LaRoy Hart? And they're like, what? And he's like, okay. Okay, well, this guy, so it sounds out of nowhere, but what this guy had been was a wanted man who was out on the run for what in this area. So he was on the run.

He had been on the run for four years at this point in the area. He had escaped out of Mays County Jail. It was under Weaver's Watch, which people were like, you seem to have a special interest in this. Weird that you just threw that name out. And essentially he had alluded him for personally for that long. So he had like a personal vendetta on this guy. It's like the sheriff and the dean. me and Eccles case. It's exactly. Exactly. It's exactly like that. But what we'll see is like

Jean Leroy Hart is an actual piece of shit. So it actually had some. Even if he got this pinned on him wrongly, like I wouldn't want it done for the justice for the girls. But like we can pin the world's problems on Jean Lurie Hart. He's an actual piece of shit. And he, and at least they were hopefully able to get him back into jail. I hope. Exactly. So he had been imprisoned because in 1966, he kidnapped two 19 year old pregnant women. Oh my God. In Tulsa. threw them in his trunk, drove them out to the woods in Locust Grove, Locust Grove, the area, bound them and raped them both. Raped and sodomized two pregnant women.

What? He then used tape and rope, or he used tape and rope for that whole thing. Then he drove them to another place. And while he was driving them, he said that they were both wearing prescription eyeglasses. He took both of their eyeglasses and used to them while he was driving. So he has a weird thing. with eyeglasses. Also, why are you going to use somebody else's prescription glasses while you're driving? And just putting it out, stolen eyeglasses? Yeah, that is weird. Eyeglasses found at the

scene. That whole eyeglasses thing is weird. I've never heard of that in another case. And then not alone is bad that he just raped to, kidnapped and raped two pregnant women. Then he drove them to another place, like a secluded hill in the woods, put duct tape over their mouths and noses, covered all air holes, covered them with brush, and then just left the woods. So he intended to murder them. He was leaving them so they would die. They escaped because one of them was able to get the thing off of her mouth and was able to undo her binding. Jesus.

Thank God. They were able to escape. So he attempted to murder them. He just failed. Wow. And they said, you can do that to two pregnant women? Two pregnant women.

And obviously he was able to subdue two pregnant women. Never mind three little girls. That he bludgeoned two of them before they can't wake up. Right. So they said during the rape, he was making. making weird guttural noises. Okay. Like the ones heard at the camp that night.

Weird, low, guttural. They said like animalistic noises. Now this is a loaded, horrible question. But did the camp counselor think that one of the girls was in the woods being raped when she heard that? Is that what people think? I don't think so. I think maybe, I don't know if he makes those noises when he's like jacking off or something because he's probably excited about it. But we don't know.

That's weird. Because they think they think they were killed between like 11 p.m. and 6.8. And she heard the guttural noises before that. Late. Or right around that time. It was past that time. Okay. So it's a very good possibility. Yeah, that's fucking nasty. He was married with a son at the time, by the way. That is always the wildest shit to me when they're married and have kids and their, like, wives or partners are like, I had no idea. It's unreal. She divorced him and they never made contact again, which is good. I believe that. Thank goodness. So he ended up being paroled for that crime.

That's interesting. Like, I don't. That's my whole fucking issue with attempted murder. It's insane. They wanted to get away with it. Well, then he committed a few burglaries and home invasions while out on parole. So he got caught again and he was sentenced to 305 years because of the attempted murders, burglaries, home invasions, and then like the rape, the abduction, all of it together.

He escaped twice. How? The first time he was caught super quickly and put back in. Yeah. Then the second time was in 1973, he sawed through the bars of his cell with a hacksaw. Oh, why did he have a hacksaw? Not sure. Not sure.

Okay. Yep. I was like, that's probably a bad thing. So Gene's mother actually lives a mile away from Camp Scott, which is interesting. That's weird. People around the area said they saw a man who looked a lot like Jean LaRoy Hart running from a cave nearby the camp. And he was carrying items that. Jack Schroff there said had been stolen from his farmhouse that day. Interesting. There was a sketch

put together of the suspect and it does look a lot like Gene Leroyhart. Oh shit. I'm going to Google that. It's kind of insane. So June 22nd, so immediately they're like, oh, this is all seeming to fit together. Right. So June 22nd, two brothers are out hunting in the area. They come by a cave that appears to be a domicile for a human as well. Somebody was living in it. That is terrifying. Also, he's so scary looking. is. They see some photos of flashlight cover, eyeglasses. Weird. And a newspaper. This newspaper is the same newspaper that was wadded up in the flashlight with the bodies. Same date, same addition, same newspaper. Shut the fuck up. So they think Hart was living in there. And now the photos that they found, this is interesting. When Hart was in prison at Granite Reformatory in Eastern

in Oklahoma from 67 to 69. There was a guard who was also a wedding photographer on the side, which I was like, wow. A Gemini. That's a true Gemini. That is a true Gemini. Yeah, I was like, wow. It like really is. Well, Hart ended up being able to, like, he had Hart help him develop photos in the prison dark room, which I was like they had a dark room, okay. But he helped him do it. Not sure why they had a convicted rapist developing photos like that, but like the world may never know. The way you just like flashed your hands back. I don't know.

Baza. I don't really know, jazz hands. So these photos in the cave were from those photos that he developed. So in the beginning of this whole thing, you said like there's some pretty solid evidence, but then there's like a lot of evidence that's like. So what I've presented to you right now is a lot of solid evidence. Don't you dare end this right there? So I've presented a lot of solid evidence.

And this is when the manhunt is like once they find this. cave they're like what the fuck this is it well they find another nearby cave also that has a bunch of shit in it so somebody's been like why is everybody just cave live in just like weird cave like rock formations basically and then there's another one that's like a i think like an abandoned foundation of a home where like they there was like underground like a basement kind of thing where somebody was living they found graffiti on one of these that said the killer was here bye bye fools and it had that is so lame And it had the date written 77-617. That's terrifying.

Now, what's weird is that was a few days after the murders, so like, whoa. And then on top of that, it's written strange. Okay. Like the year is written first, which is like a European way of writing that. Either European, it was the first thing I thought of. Or Spanish, right? Well, like, it's like European or it's also military. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which is, like, I think that's like a military thing. So that's an interest, because that's just, sure, it can be somebody who just writes it that way. Yeah. But it is a different, like, because, like, it's not your first instinct to write it that way. Americans usually write it month, day, year. Which, like, everybody else is like, why do you do that? And so it's, it's just a strange thing that could point to maybe, like, some kind of piece of evidence to somebody, but I'm not really sure. But also, like, sometimes I feel like older people are, like, on the eighth of June.

Exactly. Yes. You know what I mean? But Gene Leroy Hart at the time was only in his 30s. Yeah. So it's not like he was like... Was he in the military at some point? Did you say that already?

He was not in the military that I knew of. And is he European? He is not. He is Cherokee Native American. Okay. And what we're going to see is sure it looks great right now, but there are a few things that are like, I don't know if he was just... Because again, he evaded Sheriff Weaver.

He escaped from his jail. So now you're not. going to tell me about the evidence. Sheriff Leaver has, so what we're going to do now is we're going to. Not pause. Nope, we're not. No. We're going to stop for part two.

No! You let it ever. Because keep in mind, it all sounds great right now. All right. When we end this, you got to hit me up. Gene Loveray Hart is the guy. Not real sure he is. I don't know.

I mean, that's pretty, it's pretty condemning. It sounds pretty damning, but it's, but it, you'll, you might, you might question. I don't think condemning is really a verb. Yeah, but, you know, whatever. Locust is not a flower either, but we're going to go with it. I live in my world. I don't know where you live. With Ash's world, we'll just live in it.

You're all just living in it. So, yeah, so part two will go over, you know, the whole thing with Jean Leroy Harre when they look further into it. They start looking into things like, you know, something pops up. Remember, they found sperm on two of these girls, which told them that they're rape. Well, they couldn't figure that out. but they did find out that he had a vasectomy at one point, which should not produce sperm. But sometimes mistakes happen. Well, we'll see.

There is a lot that has to do with it. Fuck you. So we'll go through it. All right. All right. I'll end this right now. You can find us on Instagram, Matt. Morbid Podcast.

Hit us up on Twitter. A morbid podcast. Send us in Gmail. Morbidpodcast. Atgill. I hope you. Keep it. Weird.

But not so weird that when we end this, I need Elena to tell me everything that she knows right now. Bye. Bye. Oh, my God. I need to know. Thank you.