Morbid - The Strange Death of Cindy James (Part 2)

Episode Date: September 19, 2024

After opening an investigation into Cindy’s death, investigators learned that, for nearly a decade leading up to her death, Cindy James had repeatedly reported to Richmond Police that she was a victim of harassment, stalking, and assault, and had even turned over threatening letters and answering machine messages as evidence of the harassment; yet local police were unable to verify her story or intervene to protect her.At first, Cindy’s death appeared to be the inevitable and tragic conclusion of a years’-long campaign of harassment and terror by an unknown stalker; however, when investigators began digging into Cindy’s personal history, they discovered evidence that contradicted their initial assumptions and pointed towards a far stranger explanation for her death.Thank you to the incredible Dave White of Bring Me The Axe Podcast for research and writing support! ReferencesGraham, Patracia. 1989. "We could have done better for Cindy." The Province, June 16: 37.Hall, Neal. 1989. "Body believed to be missing nurse's." Vancouver Sun, June 9: 1.—. 1990. "Ex-spouse angrily denied woman's lurid charge." Vancouver Sun, March 7: A12.—. 1990. "James' ex-husband tells of fear police would frame him." Vancouver Sun, March 8: 19.—. 1990. "James felt abandoned, ex-husband testifies ." Vancouver Sun, May 8: 16.—. 1990. "James inquest hears of 1984 kidnap claim." Vancouver Sun, March 2: 15.—. 1990. "James recalled bloody tale." Vancouver Sun, March 6: 19.—. 1990. "Under siege." Vancouver Sun, March 24: A9.Horwood, Holly. 1990. "James inquest a strain for jurors." The Province, May 31: 4.—. 1990. "Nurse changed her story." The Province, February 28: 6.—. 1990. "Threats, attacks preceded death." The Province, February 27: 2.Jiwa, Salim. 1989. "Body is nurse's." The Province , June 9: 5.—. 1989. "Somebody tailed Cindy." The Province, June 1: 4.Mulgrew, Ian. 1991. Who Killed Cindy James? Seal Press: New York, NY.Pemberton, Kim. 1989. "Strange ordeal of Cindy James." Vancouver Sun, July 13: 17.Vancouver Sun. 1989. "Abduction feared by nurse's dad." Vancouver Sun, June 2: 37.—. 1990. "Conflicting evidence fabricated tangled puzzle for inquest." Vancouver Sun, May 29: 9.—. 1990. "Coroner's jury to hear of mysterious incidents." Vancouver Sun, February 26: 21.—. 1989. "Police ask help in locating missing nurse." Vancouver Sun, May 30: 33. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. In the mid morning. Basically afternoon, though. Well, it's like early morning. Well, early afternoon. Yeah, yeah. Sure. Why not? It's 10.50. You decide. Because whenever you're listening to this is what time it is, okay? Yeah. Okay. So that's where we are. Oh, that was like a Ramona. Okay. Okay. We have a couple of things we wanted to get to right away. Yes. Because some stuff has gone down this week. And Whoa. And this is actually these two things are just like a couple of the things that have gone down. We're going to have to space it out. Yeah. I feel like we can we're just hitting what we can hit right now. But the ones that really stuck out to us this week are I'm sure a lot of you have heard of this little six year old Paisley Schultes. Who had been missing since she was four. She went missing in 2019. And if she's from right outside of Ithaca, New York. And she was found the other day. in the home of her non-custodial parents.

Yep. And her grandfather. Kimberly Cooper is the non-custodial mother. Kirk Shultus Jr. is the non-custodial father. And Kirk Shultes Sr. is the grandfather. Now, investigators had been at this home several times. That's the scariest thing to me. Oh, it's, this story is like really right out of a horror novel.

Yeah. It's like a really nightmarish Harry Potter scenario because it involves under a staircase. So obviously people have been searching for this little girl. She went missing in 2019 at four years old. Her legal guardians have been searching for her for years. For two and a half years. And so they had been at this home several times because of course these parents lost custody of this child. So of course you're going to go back to this home to make sure.

Now, investigators had been let in the house. They never got a full search warrant because they just didn't have anything except for like hearsay to really do it. Right. They would let them in the house, but every single time they let them in the house, they wouldn't let them in the basement, which I'm like, alarm bells, people. But they wouldn't let them in the basement, wouldn't let them do a full search. And they were always, they said very adversarial with them. Like, they were always very like, you're harassing us. Like, we don't know where she is. We haven't seen her since this, which like all lies. Yeah. And every single time that the investigators were in this home looking for her, she was hidden under stairs, like being silent. the basement stairs and they said it was like cold. They said it was wet, cold, and filthy. And when you see photos of it, it is filthy and there's disgusting blankets that haven't been washed ever in there. Yeah.

It's horrifying that a child of four to six years old had been shoved under these stairs. They said at times she must have been under there for at least like four hours at a time. I didn't even hear that part. And staying silent. Oh, she must have been so scared. Yeah. And the trauma that she's going to have to work through for the. for the rest of her life probably.

Well, and whenever they would go here, at times they were led into the basement. They were only let like so far in. And there was like an apartment set up in the basement kind of thing. Oh, okay. And they said there was a room and it was set up for a little girl. And on the wall, it had the name Paisley. And the bed looked like it had been slept in. And they'd be like, what is this about?

Right. Is she here? Where is she? And they would just be like, no, we set this up in case she comes back. Yeah. And they had to, they couldn't do anything further because. Yeah, I mean, what are you going to do? If you have nothing, you can't just go barging down doors as much as I would love for them to have done that.

But, yeah, it's Sogertie's police chief Joseph Senegras, I believe his last name is. Okay. He said, so police had shown up this time. He said one of the officers saw this staircase that was like outside of the child's room. And he said it was something, he just, something struck him as weird about that staircase. And he said, then he saw a pair of tiny. feet through the staircase. And he said, now Sinegras said the silence, so they started pulling this thing apart.

Yeah, I don't. Because they were like, let's go. They had a warrant at this time, so they were able to. They started pulling this, the wood staircase apart. They said as they were pulling the stairs apart, they said this child never made a sound. What? They're ripping apart these staircases and she's staying dead silent inside of it. She's probably been told.

So she has been trained in some. and Kimberly, the non-custodial mother, she was in the staircase with her, and neither one of them made a sound. And Sinegra said, quote, the question that needs to be answered is what she was told by these people that would keep her so still and quiet while the cops are walking up and down the steps while they're taking the steps apart. Yeah. And according to CNN, an article I read about this, the door that led to this staircase was in her room, was in the basement and it was in like the door in her room opened into a short hallway and then led into the secret compartment under the stairs what the fuck yeah so this was clearly like manmade oh yeah and they said uh it looked like that staircase had been built specifically for this

i heard that yeah um and they said quote in our opinion this is sinneger again he said in our opinion, that location was used probably each and every time that we sent an officer to the residence. That is unreal. Now, Kimberly Cooper, the non-custodial mother, was charged with two misdemeanors, custodial interference in the second degree and endangering the welfare of a child. She's actually, she was in jail, like she was still in jail because she had a prior arrest warrant through family court. So she's killing it. Also, I'm like, kidnapping. Where's that? Yeah, because how did they? throw a kidnapping charge in there? How do they get her? I'm not sure. That story has not come out yet.

I'm dying to know what happened two years ago. Well, I'm wondering if they had some kind of visitation. That's what I'm wondering. Yeah, but then it's like, if kidnapping isn't on the table, if there was a visitation, but wouldn't that still be kidnapping? You're the non-custodial parent. You can't take that kid. I'm trying to think if, um, Noah Claire, if his father was charged with kidnapping or not. That's the thing. These things are weird and they're hard. And sometimes I think they go with whatever charge is going to get them to where they want to end up kind of thing. That is very true. Yeah.

So who knows if more charges will be added? Right. I don't know. Because again, we have not heard the story. I can't find it anywhere. I don't think it's been released yet of what happened two and a half years ago. How she went missing. She was reported missing.

Right. Like that was a thing that happened by her legal guardian. So. And we don't know why. I don't know if there was a supervised visit. I don't know if there was anything. Or there could have even been unsupervised. You never know.

I think it really depends on why they were taken away in the first place. Yeah. But I also, do we know that at all, why they were taken away in the first place? No, we don't know anything about that yet. I wonder if that will come out. And that's the thing that I think everybody is wanting to know. I mean, obviously your child is taken away. That's not a good thing.

And it's not a great mark on parenting here. But when you look at these, the staircase, it's a filthy, disgusting mess. And if you're willing to shove your four to six-year-old into a staircase for four hours, first of all, that's beyond my comprehension. Second of all, if they were doing this out of some kind of love for her that they just wanted their child back and they wanted to give her a life and one year traumatizing her. And it's illegal. You can't steal this child back.

Like do the work to get her back. Right. But also, I would have thought they would made this area where she has to hide a wonderful, comfy area. If they're trying to be good parents and not a filthy, wet, disgusting staircase that you're going to hide her in. So none of it, because I've seen like, you know, are like, we don't know. We don't know what happened.

It's like, yeah, no, we don't know what happened. Something happened. Yeah. And this is not okay. You don't shove a six-year-old under a filthy, disgusting, wet staircase for hours at a time. Like, that's, I'm sorry, nothing about that is okay. So I have zero sympathy for these people at all.

And I don't know if we mention it, but I saw the, that she was like obviously like checked out at the hospital and she was totally fine right yeah i was going to get to that at the end but she so kirk shultes jr and kirk shultes senior the the non-custodial father and the grandfather uh they were each charged with custodial interference in the first degree which is a felony and endangering the welfare of a child which is misdemeanor so based on those charges it seems like they were the ones that it seems like more to do with this seems like that but again we we got to wait for more to come out um she was paisley was brought back to her legal guardian and her sister who had been searching for her for 2.5 years.

Police, like you said, did say she was in good health. She was happy to be with her legal guardian. She recognized her sister, which was like hurt my heart. They did say, though, the police chief said she was very nervous, obviously, when police took her from the home. And they recognized and appreciated that she was probably taught to fear them in the situation. And who knows what she was told. She's a six-year-old. And she doesn't know what's going on.

No matter what. From 4 to 6, this is what you've known. Even if it's a bad situation, this is all you've known. You're just being taken away. And so they said they were driving to the station and she saw McDonald's. And I guess she saw it and was like, oh, I think I had that before. And I haven't had it in a long time. Oh, my God.

But she was like, I remember McDonald's and like that was really cool. And like she was basically saying like it was happy. So he said, quote, so the detectives turned the car around, went to the drive. arrived through a McDonald's, picked her up a happy meal, and brought her back to headquarters, and she was fine after that. I literally. Right? Oh, my God.

I like hearing, like, good things like that. Yeah. Like, good police work like that. Oh, my God. That's good police work right there. She was like, I think I remember McDonald's. And so they said, obviously, it's going to be a task now to learn, you know, what she, what she lived through there.

Because the conditions were horrid, and she was clearly brainwashed. to hiding the way she was and you don't get a four to six year old to hide in dead silence without terrifying them into it yeah that's the thing it's like i trust me we have told the girls to be quiet many times like for the purpose of like going to sleep at night yeah and it's like that or even like silly things like playing hide and seek with them oh my they're they're in like a hide and seek like phase right now where we have to play hide and seek every single evening in the house it's so fun which is fun but like it's hilarious because me and john always end up laughing so hard because when they hide they can't help but laugh and giggle when you come near them so it's just you have to pretend

to be like i don't see you off no one's in here but to get a six a four to six year old to be they said eerie silent well even even when they were pulling apart you would think she'd like recoil or be like uh like be nervous yeah it makes some kind of noise or cry or like anything anything and they said nothing. Not a word. She must have been so scared. I mean, I'm so glad she's back with her legal guardians and I hope that, that, you know, that she can get, I mean, hopefully she's six. It's been two and a half years. I hope that she'll be able to, you know, get some help to move forward from this. They have all been ordered to stay away from her, which I was like, yeah, forever. Like, that's, you, that should be it. Yeah. You've traumatized this.

child. No, bye. So they're not even in custody then. Yeah, so they've been ordered to stay away from her. What the, this is a bizarre story. That's why the more that comes out about it. And I know like Kimberly Cooper there, her, you know, attorney is like, I think everybody needs to be patient and learn the thing. And I'm like, but what we have learned is that they've shoved her under a disgusting staircase for two years. So I think I know that is bad. So like, I think I, you know what? I'm going to go ahead and judge that. Yeah. That's bad parenting. Me as well. I'm going to go ahead and say that. Yeah, that's, but it'll be interesting to learn the rest of it. And I'm just glad she was safe and that she was taken out of that environment.

And I honestly hope, you know, she can just be happy with her family. I know, and her sister. And I feel for her family because they're going to be worried about this happening again. Oh, my God. Yeah. And I, I mean, two years, they must have assumed the worst, you know. Oh, of course. Like so.

Your four-year-old is gone for two and a half years? I'm happy that it had, I'm happy that it had an ending where they could be reunited. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of that, there's another crazy true crime update. Back in episode 82, we covered Susan Powell's disappearance. One of the most heart-wrenching episodes I have ever listened to. Tragic, like absolutely tragic. She disappeared back in 2009, and there was recently a search for her because they've never found her body.

And her husband, Josh there, has like, obviously everybody. pretty much knows that he did it. 100%. With no body, we can't, we don't know exactly what happened. Yeah. But so there was a search for her the other day in the West Desert out in Utah. And the reason that they wanted to check this specific mind was because they've had like some tips about it and the specific area that it's in relating back to her disappearance

and like the days leading up to it, I guess. And the guy who led the team was called Dave Sparks. And he believes based on information that him and his team got that Susan's husband threw her remains in the mine and then set it on fire. Jesus. And he hired a team to look around this area way back when Susan first went missing. And his team investigated this specific mine, an area that they're searching now. And back then, when they were searching it, it had a wooden structure on top of it.

But then they went back a few months later and the structure was no longer there. But they looked down in the mine and it had crumbled into the mine. Oh. But it didn't seem like natural. It was very strange. Oh, okay. So I think that's kind of the reason why there's been so much going back to this specific spot. Yeah, because it's just been strange.

Yeah. Now, during their most recent search, the team actually found bones and a pair of pants. And Susan's best friend... That's so ominous. Crazy. Susan's best friend said that they looked like dress pants. So, and, you know, maybe she was getting ready for work. Maybe she had come home from work.

And she was a very, like, she was a very, like, put together. Yes. woman. Like she seemed like she was always like dressed well and she's always put together. Every picture I see of her. I'm like, I know. She was like so pretty. So gorgeous. So the, yeah, they found bones. They found pants and then they found scraps of other clothing as well. So you wonder if he threw more clothes down there too. Exactly. Now the bones were first taken to do to two different experts by Susan's father Chuck Cox. I don't know if they were brought in person or not based on the article that I read. One of the experts thought that they were animal bones, but it said based off of information.

So I don't know if they saw them in person. Okay. And then the second expert disagreed. They didn't think it was animal bones. They thought they were human bones. Oh. So now everything, the bones and the clothing are going to be sent to a forensic lab for testing. Yes.

So hopefully I don't really know how long that takes. I have no idea. It really depends, I think. I'm hoping at least in like the next couple of weeks we'll hear some kind of update. I imagine this would be a big priority. It's a big case. Yeah, I would think so. And I know, like, obviously, forensic testing has come so far. Oh, for sure. But I don't know how long this specific kind of thing takes. Yeah, the caseload and such. But Susan's dad, like, went right out there immediately. And he said, I'm feeling pretty confident that it's going to be found that this is Susan. It makes much more sense

than some of the other leads by location and the items that were found. I just think they found at least a portion of her remains. Oh, my goodness. My, oh. So it's like, you hold. You. hope that they did so that this family can have closure. But then it's like, is that? Like, I know that's some form of closure, but I would imagine, too, that it like reopens the wound. Because that's the thing. Like, they know at this point, I imagine there's certain cases where you're like, I bet, you know, the family should have, like, hope here that she's alive somewhere.

But this wasn't one of those cases that I felt they were probably holding on to the hope that she was alive somewhere because she never would have just abandoned her children. it just wouldn't have happened. No, and then the way that he acted afterwards. And then obviously. And they knew that he, his exit from this world with his children. I mean, he killed his children. He's a disgusting piece of shit.

No matter if he was guilty of Susan Powell's disappearance or not, he's a disgusting fucking piece of shit. And he killed his two little babies brutally. And if you just look into that case, if you go back, if you haven't listened to that episode, go back and listen to it. It's pretty clear what happened. Very clear what happened. And I think everybody feels the same way.

I don't know anybody who's like, no. No, even in every article I was reading, it's like, it's widely reported and widely speculated that he did this. So this was one of those things where, unfortunately, I think her loved ones believed that she was no longer with us, but it was more of a case of just where is she? Give me her. Just let me have her. Like that's the thing that kills me.

It's like, you fucking piece of shit, just tell them where she is. And it's like, that's all they want. Then they have a spot to go visit her, you know? Exactly. Because right now it's like, and you just, as like, a loved one of someone or like a parent thinking of your child whether they're dead or alive just out there somewhere alone especially like everybody is so focused on the different deserts around that area so you're just like what desert is my child in what desert is my sister in in the loneliness

I think would be the thing that would be like they're there alone and I can't and I don't know where they are I can't go see them yeah so it's celebrate their life this would be horrific and it's going to open up a new grieving process I think for them but I think it's going to be a grieving process where they are now able to hopefully if this is her I hope it's her just for that that I do you because I really don't want them to have to keep going through life not having any idea what happened to her where she is their family just seems like a really great family it really does like her dad said you know if it's not her hopefully that it's somebody else and it brings that family closure and I was like just to put yourself in that yeah to be able to be like you know what

if it's not her I hope it's my child that they found burned at the bottom of a well like a mine but But if not, I hope that somebody else can get closure, like to be that big of a person. Yeah. I hope for them that they are able to get some kind of something out of this. Yeah. Whatever it is that they are going to get out of it. I hope it's something that can end positively for them. Exactly.

Because you do. You need somewhere that you can go and see them. Talk to them. Leave flowers. You know? Just like, you know. Everybody deserves that. It's just such a basic thing that everybody.

deserves, you know? And when it's like, like, I've never had somebody die that I couldn't go see them. Right. Or I couldn't, you know, like, so I can't imagine what that feels like. And I think a lot of us don't imagine what that feels like sometimes with these cases. It's just like, well, you know, like, well, but it's like, no, that's such a different kind of grief, like not even having a place to go to see them that I can't fathom it. And then just like, we were just saying it, but just to have your mind wander about everywhere they could be. No, I really can't even imagine. So we'll definitely be updating on that. I hope for sure. There's something, you know, some kind of answers soon, but we will see. Definitely. But yeah, those are the two things we just really wanted to touch upon. I'm sure there's

like more happening, but those are the ones that just stuck out to us. There is so much happening lately. So much happening. But, you know, we can, we're only going to hit a couple in the beginning because we got a case to get to. All right. What do we do when today? Crazy pants. So today we're going to the 1940. Oh, okay. I feel like I got to, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's pretty bad. Oh, good. This doesn't feel very glamorous. This is not an Ash 40s case.

No, definitely not an Ash 40s case. Okay. This is like a dirty, like my 40s case. Dirty Elena case. A dirty Elena case. This is a yucky dirty Elena. It's like dirty Jonah. It's like dirty Jonah.

So this took place January 2nd, 1946. This is like, you know, when my dad was coming into the world a few months later. Yeah. So two people were driving up the Waterman, Canyon in San Bernardino, California, in the mountains. Their engine was overheating because apparently, you know, these are like crazy, steep hills and stuff. So it was the 1940s cars were not like super psyched to climb hills.

So this car was like, I'm done. I just picture of a car like, yeah, I'm so excited to climb this hill. Let's fucking go. This one was not. This was not a happy one. So the engine overheated. So these two people had to pull over to, you know, just let it. have a moment, get its life together.

And of course, with nothing else to do, because this is the 40s and they couldn't just, you know, silently look at their phones or send each other TikToks from right next to each other. They just had to wait and they decided to just look out over the, you know, the canyon in front of them, the valley below. It's beautiful. San Bernardino Mountains, you know? And then they found a dead body. Just looking at beautiful stuff.

So they're taking in this beautiful valley, way to ruin the moment. I mean, come on. They're breathing in that 40s there. Just like, hmm. It was probably a lot better to breathe back then. And then they noticed something. And it's not totally in the valley below. It is like something that's kind of wedged into a ledge.

It appeared that it was like on its way down to the valley and got stuck in this little ledge. And they're like, what's that? So they squinting. And they squinting some more. What is that? What's going on out there? Oh, it's a woman wrapped in a green and white blanket that was wrapped in rope and only her legs were sticking out the end. What?

So they're like, well, that's odd. I feel like this is not going to be like the spulunking listener. Yeah, no. This is not one of the, and they were like, you know, like, I feel like that shouldn't be there. No. I haven't looked at a lot of valleys in my life, but I feel like that shouldn't be there. No. That's not something that, like, naturally occurs in valleys.

So they called the sheriff, which like good on them. Because what else are you going to do? And he came right out with a handful of other officers, some deputies and the coroner. Because they were like, yeah, I'm pretty sure this is. a dead body. I don't think this isn't a live person. So they had a ton of trouble getting her out of the canyon because it was super far down where she got wedged in and they had to use like ropes and police to get her out. Oh, that's awful. Basically equipment that like rock climbers use. Now obviously like I said, this woman was dead. She didn't move when they tried to bring her up and her legs that were

sticking out of the blanket looked bruised and battered from the fall. When they untied the blanket, it got somehow worse than it even initially seemed. Okay. Because right now you're like, oh no, a dead body. Well, they were now looking at her nude body, and there were vital pieces of it missing. What was missing? She was missing both of her hands and her head.

I knew you were going to see that. It was a headless, handless nude body of a woman wrapped in that blanket. Now, upon further inspection, it was clear that some kind of saw had been used too crudely saw off her hands and head. The skin and flesh were like tattered and ripped at the cuts. It was brutal. Now the coroner went to work immediately,

looking for anything at the scene that could help them understand what the fuck happened here. And he found a bullet hole in the center of her chest and another one under her left arm in her side of her torso. Okay. Later it was determined that these bullets belonged to a 38 caliber revolver. She had a noticeable. scar on her left leg and they determined that that might help identify her later because it was a

pretty like gnarly scar. They also noted that she had intense bunions all over her feet. Huh. Like enough for them to be like, yeah, you could definitely be identified purely from the intensity of these bunions. Oh, wow. I wonder if she was like a hiker. Well, they said that she, uh, they said she definitely would have had to have medical

intervention for those. They were that bad. So they were like, that will help us because there's got to be a doctor that has done some surgical, you know, procedures. Right. Now, later it was determined that she was likely around 35 to 40 years old. And when her body was measured, the coroner was able to estimate that with a head, she would be around 5-7 or 5-8. Okay.

The bullet in her chest had penetrated her heart and was likely the kill shot. Oh. Now, likely also, they said, she was probably, or at least her, not her, but at least her, killer was likely not from that area because they said if they were from this area, they would have known that that valley is like a very heavily trafficked area and it wouldn't conceal a body very well. And they were like, yeah, there's just, and it's crazy because the police officers were like, there's so many other places to hide a body around here. And if you are from here, you would know of those places because they're just everywhere. All right. Now, heavy press coverage

was on radio and newspapers. It went out everywhere immediately. People were dying to see this fucking body. So they would call the police at the San Bernardino Sheriff's office and ask them if they could make an appointment to view the body. No. Get out of here. People were so bold in the 40s. Can you imagine? Ring, ring, ring, hello. I'd like to make an appointment to see the body that you discovered in the canyon the other day. That headless corpse that you guys brought in? Can I just like make an appointment? 3.30 work for you to come look at that? horrific. They're just making a fucking dentist appointment.

Yeah. Just want to go see it. Like get Instagram already in the 40s. Yeah, come on. Get something. Get distracted. No. The other police station got, there was another police station that was like a satellite station or like a substation, I think they called it. It was the Temple City substation. And they got an interesting visit only a couple of hours after the news went public. So the man that walked into the Temple City substation, which was a little bit of the city substation, which was the small station and it was under the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, was a guy named Arthur Eggers.

Now, Arthur was there to report his wife, Dorothy Eggers, missing. He stated in the report that he believed she may had run off with some other man because she was having numerous affairs outside of their marriage and he was still reporting her missing because he hadn't seen or heard from her since December 29th. So only a few days earlier. Okay. It was like three or four days earlier. What a good guy.

to report his wife missing even when she's having all these affairs. He was like, you know what? She probably just ran off with a guy, but like, I'm going to do the good thing. He's like, I think it might have been a truck driver. Maybe. Funny, you should say that. Stop. Am I rooting all your moments?

I'm so sorry. I was like, and another one. You were like, shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up, Ash. So he also has a toxic place here. It is. I'm going to keep going with it. He also listed her height as five foot two.

Wrong. Now, this is only an inch. taller than me. Remember that? That's a short biotch. Now Arthur, so like I'm like five foot two, I know her. Like I know that height. I seen her. Now Arthur actually worked at this particular station as a clerk. He was also the son of the former sheriff of San Francisco County. Here we go. So the officers knew him and took it very seriously right away because they knew Dorothy as well. I bet he was a polite man that they all loved and respected. You know, they also knew that Arthur and Dorothy had an interesting and very tumultuous marriage. She was outgoing, and she was clearly getting bored of him

in recent years, and he was very shy and quiet. All right. Now, these officers had worked with Arthur for almost 15 years, so they knew Dorothy very personally. When they took a look at the details of the missing persons report he had filed, they noticed the height he had listed for Dorothy, and all of them were confused. They all stated, she was definitely around 5'7. They could have been. They could say this was certainty because some of them were around that height. When they had spent time with her around like events and days at the station, she was at least as tall as them. Yeah. Also, 5-2 and 5-7 is a tremendous height difference. That's me and you. When you really late, I literally said I'm nowhere near as tall as ash. And like that's literally. I am taking all of your moments. I was,

that was my next line on here was I am nowhere near as tall as ash. You know, we are like, if you see a picture of us together. I think actually the first picture that we ever posted together, people were like, oh my God, Elena is so tiny. And I was like, yeah, I'm just a fucking troll things. I don't think that was what it was meant. No, not at all. But our height difference is very, very large. It's immense. Yeah. So they immediately are like, wait, Arthur, that's wrong. Like, that's not her height. You've pressed an incorrect key, Arthur. And he was just like, no, no, no, she's five foot two. I would know I married her. And they were like, uh, that's weird.

But no, sir. They were like, I feel like that's not reality, but okay. So they asked Arthur flat out, they were like, do you think Dorothy could be that woman that was found in the valley without a head or hands? Yeah. I don't want to ask that, but like, could she be? And he was like, yeah, I thought of that, but like, no. And he stated, you know what, I actually went to look at her that body the evening before

because I was wondering that. So I made an appointment to. go see her. I told them, you know, my wife is missing. And he said, so he was like, okay, they were like, oh, where did you go to see it? And he said, oh, I went to see it in the basement of the sheriff's office where it was, because they would put bodies in the basement of the sheriff's office for like holding purposes sometimes. But they were like, that body has never been outside of the morgue. Like it was not held in the sheriff's basement. It's also like, why would you lie to these people if you hadn't gone and seen her body.

Like you just think you're smart enough to know where it is? Yeah. Like what if there's an off chance that it wasn't there, sir? Which it wasn't. I mean, like, I'm glad that you're that dumb. Yeah. So they talked to the coroner because they were little, these officers were getting weirder. Like, they were like, okay, something's going on here.

He does not know how tall she is. He also said he saw her body, but it wasn't at the place he saw it up. So they talked to the coroner. And they're like, you know, he's lying about. weird things and he had said it was definitely not Dorothy in there but he'd come off like very cold and casual about it when he was talking about it like he seemed like whatever like but it's like she's still missing you're saying so like aren't you worried I also would think that like seeing a headless corpse like might change you well that's the other thing it's like you just saw that

headless corpse like isn't that fucked up right but so they said to the corner you know like did he come and view the body like did do you remember that and the corner was like oh he came in here to the morgue And they were like, oh, maybe he just got the day. Maybe he was just so flustered. He got it wrong then. And the corner was like, oh, no, no, no. He came here.

He didn't view the body, though. What did he do with the corner's office? And he goes, he literally walked in, paced around a bit, and then just left. And nobody thought to call anybody? He lied to you. He did not view that body. Can you imagine if somebody just like walked into your like autopsy suite and just like paste a little and then dipped? I would immediately call the authority.

So I'd be like, what just happened? First of all, how did you? get in here, but this is the 40s, so they can just, like, walk in. That's crazy. But, okay. I love that nobody called anybody. So they're just like, okay, that's weird. No, in the meantime, so they're like, okay, this is getting weird and weirder.

So they're starting to, like, ask more questions. The fuck is up, Arthur. Now Arthur claimed, well, she probably ran off with a truck driver. Is that the new theme of your cases? I don't know why every case I have right now. Like, what? It's just like truck drivers, like just stealing your girl always and forever. It's supposed to steal your girl.

Like truck drivers, I'm so sorry that you guys just get like totally blamed. Yeah, just tarnishing the name of truck drivers everywhere. And he said she loved to hitch rides on trucks and then bragged about how good she was at driving them. He literally said maybe she rode off with some truck driver. Okay. When I read this, I about shit. You were like, well, that's my case. I was like, how can I not do this now?

Like, that's... Calling me. I don't know what's happening. I don't know what greater purpose. I serve in this fight against, like, defaming truck drivers, but I'm going to be here. Well, like we said, we have a lot of truck driver listeners, so here we are. I'm here for you. Let's go.

I'm going to keep spreading this... We'll square up for you. I'm going to keep spreading that this lies. Yeah. These are lies. I'm not going to let them tarnish you like that. No, I'm not going to let that happen. So here we are.

Not on our watch. So immediately, these police officers that have... have been his coworkers and friends for over a decade, they started an investigation secretly without him knowing because they're like, this is weird and this is going to get weird. So we should start doing this behind his back and then bring it to him so that we can keep him chill. I love good police work. Yeah, you love it.

So they had to pretend like nothing was amiss while they worked with him. In the meantime, they're doing all this stuff being like, he probably did this. So they start speaking to people and they hear more about the marriage and how it was crumbling and basically in a state of ruin when she went missing. They said she was openly having affairs and wouldn't worry about Arthur knowing. And Arthur was just trying to maintain control of her but was failing in his own eyes. So again, he's trying to control her. This is giving me such Great Gatsby vibes.

It really is. Right? Yeah. It's got the, it's like a yuckier great Gatsby. Yeah. Like none of the glitz or glamour. None in it. Just the same.

Just like a gross. Yeah, just a vibe. Just a vibe wavelength. Now, Friends also stated she was indeed 5'7. She was not 5 foot 2. What is happening, sir? And they said she had also been recently seeing a chiropractor about an issue with her spine. And as of the date of December 29th, that was the last time that any of them had heard from her as well.

Okay. He was telling the truth about that date. Then a family member said something that really struck a nerve. They said that Dorothy had recently had a surgery. And they said, oh, where? And they said surgery on her feet to help alleviate the insane bunions she had all over them. What are the fucking odds? Exactly.

So they were like, well, there that is. Now after this, the surgeon who did this surgery, Dr. Clarence Carmichael and the chiropractor that was working on her were called in to view the body that was found in the valley. They both looked and they both confirmed that that is indeed Dorothy Armand Eggers. Whoa. And they said that's due to the bunions that have been recently operated on. He was like, I did that. I know. Yeah, like, that's my work.

And then the chiropractor was like, she has the exact same spinal condition that I've been treating her for. That's so freaky. So both were present. So now they have a positive identification. And this body belongs to the co-worker, the co-worker's wife. So now the police are like, okay. So we know he's lying, but we don't have direct proof that he killed her. So we still have to find some of that.

And then the doctor said when identifying her one of the doctors, he said, he said his wife was 5 too, didn't he? I know for a fact, she was 5.7. I wonder why he would say that. Like, even the doctor was like, what the fuck? Like, why would he even lie? Like, we all know her. I was counting on my fingers. I was just like, what are you doing?

Because, okay, so like you're in. I was like, because is he, did he like measure her after he cut her head off? But I was like, your head does not give you five inches of anything. No, it definitely does not. That's why I was just counting on my finger. And he should know that the coroner and the medical examiners would be able to estimate at least without her head what she would be. Right.

I mean, he works at a police station. He should know that these things should be easy to do. If you would think also that if you're going to go to the lengths to cut somebody's head and hands off, and like if you know your wife well enough, you probably know about her bunions. Exactly. Why would you not then just cut her feet off too? I mean, horrific. Yeah.

Well, questions. We'll get to it. Okay. Now, not wanting to jump to the conclusion that he killed her, because obviously right now we have some weird shit. He's lying about stuff. But technically, we don't know that he killed her yet. Yeah, can't throw a murderer out there. Yeah.

So they keep trying to get these pieces of evidence together. In January 19th, the evidence came gift-wrapped to them. Oh. Now, a bit before this day, Arthur had sold a younger deputy at the station, his car, his old car. It was a 1940 Plymouth sedan, and he had sold. that it was his. He told the guys at the station this on January 19th, and when they looked outside at it, they noticed this car and informed him, that's not Arthur's car. That's Dorothy's car. Why would you do that, dude? Yeah, they were like, that's definitely Dorothy's car. Like,

that is not Arthur's. Do you have amnesia, sir? Is this a housewives moment? So this is when the deputy told them, he was like, oh, that's weird because when they signed the title, when he signed the title over to me, there was a woman sitting in the car. And he was like, and I said, like, who's that? And Arthur said, oh, that's my wife. What? But Dorothy was dead at the time. And they knew that now. And it turned out that that was his 17-year-old niece Marie. Now, he and Dorothy had adopted their nieces, 17-year-old Marie and 11-year-old Lorraine when they were younger. Okay. So they thought of Dorothy as their mother. Yeah. Were they his biological nieces or who are I actually don't know which biological nieces they were, but they were from a very young age to the point where they called them mom and dad.

Oh. Yeah. So off the car went to the crime lab now because they're like, hey, young deputy, like rookie deputy. Like, so cool that you got that new car. It's evidence now. Yeah. They're like very fun. Dude, you're such a rookie.

Which, thank goodness he bought the car, I guess. Now me, because now it's his at least and it can go right into evidence. Now immediately upon inspection, it was clear to technicians that the, car had been recently cleaned and very thoroughly. Why would you sell it to a police officer, though? Why are you so dumb? Like what? Now, especially the trunk area.

It was scrubbed out completely. But they are trained to find what dumbasses don't. And in the cremasses of the trunk, they found blood. And it was type A. Dorothy's blood was also type A. No, Alina, it was type O. It was type O. No, he knows it.

He would know. Now, around this time, they also found that Arthur had a 38 caliber revolver registered to him. I am leaving right now. Yeah. This was all enough for them to try to search his home now, and they did. They didn't find that revolver anywhere in the house. Of course not. But they found type A blood in the bathroom and in the cracks of a bathtub.

They also found blood on Arthur's shoes and a pair of pants of his that hung in the closet. In this search, they also discovered that Arthur had donated all of Dorothy's clothing. sir and they also found evidence that on january fourth he had sold her wedding and engagement rings for ten bucks at a pawn shop why didn't you even just like throw them out at that point well 40s 10 dollars is more he later said he did this because he figured if the cop suspected him then him having her ring would make him more suspicious no selling the ring is always more suspicious my guy and it's like okay so much to unpack there so if she wasn't wearing her rings at the time of her death and missing, why would it be weird

that you would have them? You live with her. If she had left them at home, they would be at home. Right. But if you are saying you would seem suspicious, that means that you are automatically being like, well, they would know I took them off her body. And you're automatically being like, I didn't want to look suspicious. Why not? Like if you don't have anything to do with it, then you wouldn't. Exactly. Now, January 22nd, because of all of this, he would. was arrested for the murder of Dorothy Eggers. You don't say. Now, during his days of long interrogations, he had a few days of them.

He said he only sold and donated all of her ship because he was just sure she was gone for good and she left him for another man and he was like, I want all her shit out of my house. Okay. So they had him view the body at the morgue because they were like, okay, well, you didn't see it the first time. So let's see. He was cold as ice about it. He looked at it and there's a photo of this, like him looking at this body.

and according to newspaper reports from the time, they pulled the sheet back kind of dramatically to see if they could get a reaction from him and he didn't even flinch. What? And you're looking at your wife. And he said, quote, well, that certainly looks like Dorothy. How? She is headless, sir. Yeah, exactly. And handless.

She is headless. How do you sit there and be like, yep, that's my Dorothy, that's her? And you're saying, and just like, whatever. Well, and you had already said I saw her and it wasn't her. Like, I know it wasn't her. And then he said, that looks pretty good. It resembles her quite a bit. That looks pretty good.

And then he just sat there and stared at it coldly again. And he said, I'd say that was her. I'll claim the body. Oh, like, did you do it though? It's all right. Sure, why not? That's her. What?

He then admitted to them that he had lied before about viewing her body. And he said he did it because he figured no one would really check up on it. And it would get questions about whether this was her off of him for a while. because he said, I knew people were immediately going to think that this was her. I didn't want people asking me about it. And he was, so I said, I figured if I told everybody I'd already viewed her and that it wasn't her, that everybody would stop bringing it up. And I wouldn't have to deal with it.

Okay. He worked at a police station for over a decade and thought no one would notice this shit. Well, that's the thing. I'm like, you literally worked with the police. But he also said he didn't view her or claim her body at the time, that he had said he viewed it because he didn't want to upset her mother and her mother was elderly. He didn't want to upset her. So that was his other excuse for it.

And it's like, why would you viewing the body upset her mother? Upset her mother? It doesn't make sense. No. He then told the police that yes, this was her and yes, he had lied to save his mother-in-law's delicate sensibilities, but he did not kill his wife. He said he thought one of them, one of the men she was having an affair with probably did it. Okay.

And he didn't have a name, but he said he was sure it was one of them. All right. And he said, quote, I wouldn't hurt a hair on her head. I wouldn't kill her. I wanted her to raise the children. Nice. That's the only reason I wouldn't kill her. I love that he's like, I wouldn't kill her.

She's got to stay home and raise those kids. How 40s, though. Not like I loved her. I wouldn't do that. She is the love of my life and my best friend. It's like, no, she needs to be fucking around to cook dinner. Like, I was literally just going to say. What am I going to do?

Make my own dinner? Like, you guys are crazy. I keep her in the kitchen. Why don't we get rid of my wife? That's why she's got so many bunions. I got a clean now? Are you, why would I do that? I can't.

And honestly, at that point, the police are probably like, yeah, you know what? That's a good, well, they were like, yeah, that's right. That's why I don't kill mine. Why would you kill someone who's cooking you dinner and cleaning your house? So he was put in jail awaiting the next steps, and they were only able to hold him there under the charges of grand theft because he forged Dorothy's signature on that car title, and he fraudulently sold it to a fucking sheriff's deputy. I cannot. So they really couldn't hold him on murder yet.

because they didn't have that smoking gun. Sure. Now, in the next day or so, his niece, Marie, actually came to visit him. She spoke to the police and she came to visit him in jail. She was doing this basically to try to get him to admit what he had done. She was accompanied by a police officer in the jail, and he witnessed her say to Arthur Eggers that she said, I know that body, that blanket. She was like, that blanket was from our house.

Dude, come on. And he said, he was like, what are you talking about? And she was like, that blanket was on my bed. Oh, God. And he was, and I guess he just stared at her and then said, the girl is lying and then sat back down. It was just like, whatever. And she was like, that was literally a quilt on my bed. And she's like, why would I lie about that?

Exactly. Now, January 27th, he took a polygraph, but he was such a fucking mess that it was only producing inconclusive results. They couldn't even say he was lying. It was just like, fuck wild. They were like, is your name Arthur? And he was like, no. It was your name Arthur. And he was like, I am.

having a stroke. And they were like, okay. Like, we can't even get you to, we can't even get a baseline here. So they stopped it with literally no answers at all. Wow. So this is when they pulled out the big guns. That big gun was a man named Robert Jones. So Robert Jones was a retired sheriff's deputy.

And he had worked with Arthur and also Arthur's father when he was the sheriff. They knew that this would be a tough guy for Arthur to bullshit. And they were right. because he was just a good interrogator, first of all, and two, Arthur respected him. And he worked with his father, and they knew this would be like some kind of emotional thing that would maybe tip him into being like, I have to talk. And like a power struggle kind of thing. Yeah, it's like him lying to Robert Jones would be a big deal for him. Now, so he went in there to interrogate him.

And he said, Art, I believe you're guilty. I believe you will have a better chance if you confess. Get it off your chest and lay it on the line. That's all it took. You're shitting me. Arthur broke down and said he did it. He had killed his wife and threw her mutilated body into that canyon. So what happened?

Why? So he said December 30th, he came home from work and he saw a man hurry out the door and run away. So he went inside and he said he found Dorothy in their bedroom naked. He obviously deduced that she had slept with this runaway man. And according to Arthur, he said that she was, she said, I'm leaving you for Bob. Apparently Bob was that man who had just left. And he claimed that she had mentioned Bob before. And he had tried to ignore it and live with it.

But then during this argument, she called him a cheap skate and said, what are you going to do about it, you little insect? Oh. Now, the first confession is the most damning. But he told several different tales of this whole thing. And it all started with that first half. And that's how they all starts. That's the whole thing that starts.

Okay. He said he came home from work, man runs out, comes in, she's naked in the bedroom, she calls him a cheap skate and calls him a little insect. That's how they all begin. But I've never heard anybody call somebody an insect before. You little insect. And doesn't it feel so like, I thought you were going to say incal. Like that's, you little insect. Actually, I think Ma has said that before.

Oh, really? Like, don't, like, that's like an insect. That's a little insect. Yeah, it just sounds like, whoosh. That's a tough one because insects are kind of yucky. Now, sometimes he would remove himself from first-degree murder, and other times he would put himself right into first-degree murder with the next half of the various things he told about this. So this one ended with, once she asked him what he was going to do about it, he said, quote,

we started to fight and we fought all the way down the hall into the bathroom. I hit her in the face, which I'm like, oh, okay. And she fell into the bathtub stunned. I ran to my bedroom, got my gun, returned, and shot her twice. I then loaded her into the back of my car and cut her up. No, I didn't cut her up to avoid identification. I cut her up because I was so fucking mad. I wanted to cut her all to pieces, but I didn't have time.

Oh. It's so interesting because as soon as you said he removed her head and her hands, I was like, oh, identification. Yeah, he literally said he's like, I know it makes it seem like I did, but I would have cut her into more pieces if I could. Wow. Like that was just because he was angry. And he did live there. And I imagine that he lived where? Because in the beginning they thought maybe the person who did this didn't live around the area.

Yeah, he did. And he kind of says, I think of this was, what we find out later was he meant for her to go all the way into the canyon, but she got caught on the side. If she had gone all the way in, she might not have been found for a long time. Gotcha. Now, what's interesting to me, too, is he said he was so fucking mad. and that's why he cut off her head and her hands. Those are the two things that a lot of people point to as being the most, like, person things about a person. Yeah.

Your hands. Like people, you know, like your hands are. Her hands made him dinner every fucking night. And it's like, and then you're, obviously your head is what makes you like a person. So I think that was. I think he's right. I think he did it to be a dick. Because he was like, I'm going to take away the things that make you a person.

Oh, God. Just to think in that like depraved, terrifying way. Oh, yeah. So he then said he drove. a considerable distance after dumping the body. And he kept calling her the body, too. Wow. Where he, and after this considerable distance that he drove, he threw out her head and hands

out of the car. Okay. He then said he got back home, quote, picked up the cartridge jackets of my automatic, one in the bathroom and one in the hall, and went to sleep. When I woke, I cleaned everything up and went back to work. I guess I didn't do a very good job cleaning. How cold? He then further cemented this fucked up confession by saying he was actually trying to,

he said if I was trying to conceal her identity, like most people are thinking right now, he was like, I would have cut off her fucking feet because those bunions, he said, quote, anybody would have recognized those feet. I would like to have burned her. You can't bury a body without a head, can you? Oh. Yeah, that was his statement. Like, he was literally like, you fucking idiots, of course I would have cut her feet off.

Like anyone would recognize those. Of course I wasn't trying to conceal her identity. Jesus Christ. And it's like, what? And then he said, quote, I'm glad I got that off my chest. I bet you are. I feel better.

I can't. You feel better. You murdered your wife. You cut off her head. You cut off her hands. And then tossed her into a canyon like trash. That's so horrible. And then he initially said he didn't want to try to get out of a murder charge.

He was like, I'm just going to cooperate and plead guilty and serve my time. Okay. I won't try to fight this. You can just bring me to trial. So that was the first thing. But then his confession changed. So another version started the exact same way.

But now this time, he's taking himself out of any kind of premeditation. And now he's moving into, oops, it was an accident territory. Uh-huh. After the insect comment, he said he grabbed his 38 caliber revolver and went to go after Bob to shoot him. And he said, but according to him, she tried to stop him. They began to wrestle, essentially. He said they both fell onto the bathroom floor. And oops, the gun happened to go off twice, hitting her directly in the chest.

Oh, please. Come on, dude. Yeah, he was quoted as saying, quote, I was trying to shove her away. And she was trying to pull me. And then we both fell in the bathroom and the gun just went off. Yeah, they usually do twice. So he did what any logical husband would do at that point. He said, I didn't know what else to do.

So I put her naked body in the bathtub, got a rip saw, and sawed off her hands and head because he didn't want her to be identified. You literally said that you would have cut her feet off to. And they were like the bunions though and he was like, oops. I guess I didn't think of that. Stick with the first story, moron. Yeah. He then wrapped her in a blanket from his niece's bed. So fucked.

Or his adoptive daughter's bed. Yeah. And threw her in the trunk. He drove her to the Waterman Canyon and off she went into it. He then cleaned up the mess and reported her missing. So again, this one is definitely made to take the blame off of him. Yeah, and it's definitely taking that first degree murder charge out. It's also, which is crazy to me, that he's assuming the police are going to buy the fact

that Dorothy's like sexual escapades, first of all, then verbal, then physical fight, culminating with two gunshots and a dismemberment in the tub with a ripsaw, all happened in a small home where the couple's two young nieces were sleeping because he was claiming they were all home. Well, because that's, I was going to ask, like, where were his nieces when this was all happening? He claimed they were just sleeping. They slept through the whole thing. No way. And then that there was also a man who had been renting a room in their house forever. And he was sleeping through the whole thing too. Sure. Makes sense. Definitely. All of them were like, no. We were not home that nice. Are you a new here guy? Yeah. So he was taken to the spot where he dumped his wife's body and he showed them exactly how he had done everything. But before he left on this outing, he was said that he was like, you know what? I'm really hungry. hungry. Can I have some food? Now, after confessing to the gruesome murder and dismemberment of his wife, and right before leading investigators to the other parts of her mutilated body and the ripsaw and gun he had used to create this whole thing, he ate a shit done of pot roast,

potatoes, gravy, pudding, coffee, literally stuffed his fucking face. What the actual fuck? And then he was like, cool, let's go. Why? Like, you don't deserve pot roast. Like, what are you doing? No. No murderer deserves pot roast. I just decided. No murderer deserves pot roast. No way. Certainly not a good pot roast. Not even a bad pot roast.

I mean, I don't even know if there is a bad pot roast. I feel like I've had a bad pot roast, but yeah, you're right. They don't even deserve a bad pot roast. Yeah. So yeah, so he stuffed his face. So then they went, and aside from showing the police where he had thrown her body over the canyon, he also led police to where he had dumped the 38 caliber gun. And also that gun had A.E.

engraved on it. So it was like clearly his. It was actually smoking at the time as well. It was literally smoking when they picked it up. They also found the ripsaw. Now the ripsaw was apparently covered completely in blood, bone, and flesh was still attached to it.

While he was doing this, leading them to the spots of these horrific events, he was posing for photos at different places. There were times when they would ask him to stand next to something so they could get like him in the shot. But at one point he goes, here, Sheriff, get in this one with me.

This is not a fun time, sir. Oh, yeah, he's just having a great time. Like, we're not doing a photo shoot at this moment. He had dinner made for him again. So he's feeling great. Unreal. Now, he also apparently turned around and looked in the valley and he said, what a heck of a place to dump a body.

They're a lot better spots. Yes. Correct. What? So obviously that story he told seemed like it was not completely true, but true enough, like the bones of it, to probably be a little bit of what happened. But now he just started just lying. So after he confessed, showed them where and how he disposed of the body,

showed them where the saw and murder weapon were buried, he was just going to pull it back and be like, oh, I'm not guilty. I didn't do that. How? What? No, I didn't do that. Who did it? Like, bro, you literally just showed them where everything was.

You just brought us to the place where you threw out the gun with your fucking initials car, into it. No, he was like, no, intimidation. You intimidated me into confessing that. And they were like, but then how did you know where all of the stuff was? And he was like, I don't know. Why did you sell your wife's wedding rings for $10? And he was like suspicious. Why is there blood in your car that you then sold to a literal police officer? Rookie or not? On top of this, he wouldn't tell them where he hid her head or hands. Oh, that's fucked. He sent them to various locations and basically had fun watching them try to find them and running around to wrong locations. Like he would send them somewhere and then be like, just kidding.

Nope. Oh, dick move. They also had volunteers in the community helping the police search and also massive troops of Boy Scouts tried to help because that's what 40's boy scouts did. They were out looking for sought off heads and hands of women killed by a creepy little husband. That's just like what? They were like,

Hey, Troop 42, today we're going to learn a real fucking lesson. Listen, put the ropes down, guys. we're heading out into the wilderness. You know what? That birdhouse you made looks great, but you're going to get a lesson in life right now. Wow. What if they had found the head and hands? Who's paying for therapy?

Is that part of the Boy Scouts? I would not know. Like, do you become a cadaver dog as part of your Boy Scout training? That's wild. All I know about Scouts is cookies. There you go. Now, he sent them everywhere and nothing. Then after a few of these wild goose chases, he was like,

actually stop i brought the head and hands home and i buried and i burned them there and he was like i just didn't want to the and this is the funny part he's like the way the way he said it was like you know it's just it's almost too awful to say and i'm embarrassed but i brought them home and i burned them it's like honey killed your wife and sawed her head and hands off already has sailed off the side of the earth like you're not still going actually we lost it's in another space time continuum yeah Gone. Like you, that's, this is the least embarrassing part of you. What? Did it so? No, he did. I don't even believe it. So they went to his home and they sifted through the fireplace, all the ashes. They didn't find even a single trace of bone or teeth or

anything. And he was like, well, yeah, dummies. She had plastic dentures. They melted. And they were like, yeah, okay, fucker. She didn't have plastic bones. They would be there. Right. And he was like, I don't know your life. Like, I don't know. Oh, my God. Like, they were like, what do you say about no bones? And he's like, Like, I'm not a fucking fire expert. Figure it out. I got to go out there. And they were like, we did, though.

Like, we figured it out there. She's not there. Like, Bone, where is she? And he was like, yeah, I don't know. Like plastic dentures. I'm just going to hang on to that. Plastic dentures. And then he told a reporter later in the week after this whole debacle, he said,

no one in this world will ever find my wife's hands or head. Wow. Which I'm like, wow. Okay, what the fuck did you do to them? What do you think he did to them? Do you ever find out? No. he then sent them somewhere else where he said he put them but then said oh wait no i didn't bury them

i either burned them or i threw them somewhere two very different actions exactly and i was like what and then from his jail cell they interrogated him again about it because all they wanted to do was find her fucking head and hands yeah and he said nope not telling you did anybody say you know the fact that we can't find her head or hands might upset her elderly mother yeah and she was like i literally don't care about anybody. And then he said, quote, I swear by these upraised hands that no one will ever know what I did with them. And I was like, that's the theatrics. That's really fucked up. It was his way of getting back at her, for sure. That little bit of control that he was able to hang on to. And I don't even think he cared about like the investigators finding them. I think it was to do it to her. Yeah.

Like one last way to just fuck her over. Like I get to know forever where your head and hands are. No one else will. Like you're, your mine. That's basically what it. was mine. She was right about this guy. She was. Insect. He is an insect. Now, at one point, he even said to a police officer while talking about Dorothy's body, quote, I'm surprised there weren't any powder burns. The gun was very close. Like, that's how casually he was just like, ugh. But then like in the same breath, he'd be like, I didn't kill her. And you're like, but fucker, you can't. You just said. Now, while awaiting trial, his sister Grace died of a heart attack and five minutes after that her her husband George dropped dead whoa it's like not very relevant to

this case but I read it in one of the old-timey newspapers that reported and I was like that's weird yeah like whoa she died a heart attack then five minutes later her husband died just dropped dead in like natural causes question mark like I just thought it was weird and it was while he was a waiting trial now then the next day he said actually no I didn't do any of that I didn't actually even kill her, not even accidentally with the gun. She actually accidentally shot herself. And that was how it happened. Her head off and her hands. Yeah, he was like, you know what? It was this, he's like, I figured it out now. He's like, we had that whole big fight. Now I remember. The gun went off because she took it out of my hand and like, oops, she shot herself in the chest.

Twice. And in the side under her armpit. Correct. Seems legit. Happens all the time. Yeah. It totally makes sense. And again, this isn't how it happens. It did not happen because if he's still claiming others are in the home sleeping, if two gunshots go off, they're going to wake up. In your house? It's going to happen. Now, in court, he pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity, which like might get granted. But I think he's bullshitting. So his defense was led by an attorney named James Starrett, and he just tried to attack the investigation as a whole, as well as used the fact that Dorothy's body was headless and handless against them.

because he said there's no real proof it was Dorothy. And he said, quote, that body may be the headless horseman of Sleepy Hollow for all the transcript shows. I never heard that he had bunions. Exactly. None of this worked. No. He tried, but none of it worked because they had actual forensic evidence tying him to this crime.

And he had freely admitted that body was Dorothy many times before. So many times. And they had the two doctors that came and said, yes, that is her. Right. We have the surgery. We have everything. And the 45 different, like, changing stories is not helpful. Exactly.

And that he lied about the height and everything. Right. He's a bullshitter. It just doesn't make any sense. Now, when in front of a grand jury, he now said he never killed her and that the body in the canyon wasn't even Dorothy's body. He's like, back to that. He's like, that's not even her. That's bullshit.

Okay. He said, she's still obviously missing. And then he said, you know what? The cops, he said the cops made the whole thing up. Now he was claiming that he was framed. And this was all a planned. teamed up by Dorothy, the men she was having affairs with, and the deputies. He said, they all are working together to frame me for her murder.

This is a whole plan. It's a whole cover up by all of them. What? He then said he would refuse to pay for her funeral expenses because he goes, that body isn't related to me. It's not mine. I'm not paying for it. Are you kidding me?

He was like, I don't even know that dead person, so I'm not paying for it. Oh, that's horrible. Yeah. By May 6, 1947, when the trial began, he was. he was booked. So throughout the trials, he basically looked nervous as fuck and it was like shaking, sweating. I saw some pictures. He seemed to be wild and out. He was wilding. And he would close his eyes and look like he was sleeping through it at times. Nice. They went over the events he said happened the evening of December 29th when they believed Dorothy was killed and when he had admitted to

killing her. And he said all that chaos happened while the kids and the room renter were home and sleeping. It didn't though. Well, the police took a look at the niece's night as well and discovered they had gone to a movie that night together. And it is likely when Dorothy was shot that they were at this. Of course. They then said he put Dorothy's body in bed for a while after killing her to make it look like she was sleeping. So when the daughters came home and saw her, because they said they looked in and saw her sleeping in bed. Oh my God. And they said she was not sleeping. She was dead by that point. That is so sick and twisted. And he had put them in there for that reason. That's heinous.

Now, unfortunately for him, even taking away his confession because, you know, his attorney's saying that it was coerced and it's gone back and forth so much that they can't really take it into account that well. I feel like which one was coerced? That's the thing. Which of the seven were coerced? Because the first half of it always stays the same too. They also had the surgeon and chiropractor identifying her on very specific markers, the blood in

the trunk matching her blood type. He had led them to the murder. and the ripsaw he used to dismember her. There was physical evidence on the ripsaw, tying him to the crime and tying the ripsaw to Dorothy. The gun was tested and matched the bullets in her body. It also had his initials on it. It had his initials on it. The blanket was from his home.

There was blood in the bathroom that matched Dorothe's as well. He had tried to stay on the stand that the blood that they found. No. Stop. Stop right there. Was food coloring. And it was in the bathroom because during a fight once, Dorothy had got red food coloring and just started squirting it at him.

No. No. That motherfucker tried that on the stand. He said, literally said, you dumbasses, that is food coloring. And they were like type A food coloring. Is that what do you? I usually get, oh, negative food coloring when I get it. That's the best.

It also, I'm just picturing like getting into a fight with Drew and just being like, you know what? Hold, please. Stay right there, motherfucker. I know. And just going to my baking cabinet, sifting through all my food colorings, picking out a red one, and just being like, squirt, squirt. Why? For why, though.

That's the thing. I just, I'm dying to know if anyone in that court was like, please explain, play by play how that happened. Like, stop, elaborate, I'll listen. Literally. Because if I was in that court, I'd be like, time the fuck out. Judge, please allow me this. And I would be like, you explain to me right now, Arthur Eggers. Food coloring.

What happened? Did she call it? Did she have the food coloring in her hand? Was she making cookies? Was she making red velvet? What was going on? And did she just go squirt, squirt? Or did she like crazy whip it at you?

There's not even that much in there. And she wasn't making red velvet because she would need all of that. She wouldn't be wasting a drop. That's true. She wouldn't. Yeah, he tried that, though. I'm leaving. There's so many times throughout this story that I've just left.

I feel like on the stand when he said that, it must have gone silent in that courtroom. And you know everyone in there just went, what? Okay. Moving on. Like, you know that was literally just like, oh. And you know his attorney was like, fuck. Like, did he really say that? During a fight.

Yeah. I'm never going to be over this as long as I live, to be honest. And also, his nieces slash adoptive daughters gave him up as well. Good. Bye. So Marie said on the stand that Arthur, her uncle, had forced her to practice signing Dorothy's name for him. Girl, you're just telling us this now.

Yeah. And she said, when he sold that car to the deputy, he had forced her to go with him and sign Dorothy's name, but she wasn't doing it well enough because she was nervous. And she was like, I don't know what, why this is. Why are you making me do this? What is going on? And he was like, fuck it. I'll do it myself and just did it himself.

But like, she was in the car. And that's why the deputy saw her in the car. that day. Perfect. And she also said again, that blanket that she was wrapped in is from my own fucking bed. That's just so sad to me that he took a blanket out of one of his nieces and like, again, adoptive daughter's rooms. Who call him dad? Like, like, come on, man. How dare you? Now, it was only a day or so before this that she had found out for the first time, Marie, that she was adopted. She didn't even know that she was adopted. Oh my God. So she had no idea. and now she found that out that she was adopted, adopted by the man who is now on trial for killing her adoptive mother.

Oh, that is just way too much. How did she remember her adopted daughter? They just like told her? I think because of the press coverage, their relationship was kind of dissected a little bit. And they were like, well, you know, and some outlets were calling them his adoptive nieces. Oh. And some of them were calling him as adoptive daughters. So it was like, I think she probably saw something and was like, what does this mean? And they were like, we got to tell you.

I don't tell you. That's so sad to be going through all of that. And then you're like, your whole life has already just flipped upside down. And then somehow it gets worse. Exactly. So I thought that was like really harrowing. Yeah. Now a neighbor testified on January 3rd, she saw Arthur outside like voraciously cleaning his wife's car. So she was like, I watched that shit. happened. He was like very much focusing on the trunk. Oh man. Now Arthur's attorneys just blame Dorothy for her own death at this point because they knew their client was such an idiot. That's really all they could do at this point. Yeah. So James Starritt said in his opening statement, quote, our evidence will prove Mrs. Eggers was a domineering forceful woman who was not averse to attending dances alone and picking up strange men. For a long time, Eggers heard rumors of his wife's unfaithfulness. When he saw with his own eyes the truth of these rumors, there was a blinding

flash in his mind. And he grabbed a gun to defend the sanctity of his home. In the struggle, Mrs. Eggers, who was strong physically, was accidentally shot. Yeah. I like that. It was like Mrs. Eggers, who was fucking strong, just so you know. Mrs. Eggers, like, who's the strong one, who's not nervous. That's, for real. I know. Now, they also brought Arthur onto the stand, which I was like, that's a bold move. Let's see how it shakes out for you. Yeah, like, he literally said his wife squirted him with food coloring in a fight. So like, good luck with that move.

It's truly one of those things where you're like, bold move. Go off. All right, let's see. He said, he had a happy marriage until a couple of years ago when she started going through what he called, quote, the change of life, which I'm assuming he meant menopause. And he said she was a big pain in the ass after that, which I'm like, oh, sorry. Well, guess the fuck was. sad for you. Do you even know that her fucking miserable, like menopause sounds like it sucks.

Oh, everybody going through menopause right now, like, I'm sorry because hearing about it freaks me out. It's got to be tough. So, like, I'm so sorry that she was going through that and it disrupted your fucking flow. What a dick. No, that's when he said she started stepping out on their marriage and was going to fucking dances with other men or alone. Maybe she just liked to dance. She's like to dance, man. He said of the day she went missing, quote, I went into the house and found my wife in the bedroom. She was nude. I told her I was going to stop such goings on and got my dress from the dress, my gun from the dresser drawer. Dorothy grabbed me and we struggled in the bedroom.

She pushed me into the bathroom and we both fell down. The gun went off. Next thing I knew, I was crying. And then I heard these voices. So now he's really leaning into like the insanity defense. He never heard voices before this. He said, quote, I was sitting on the toilet. see, crying and scared.

And then I know I got in the car and somebody else was in that car and kept saying, she's in the back, she's in the back. I found myself driving along the waterfront, but I kept hearing these voices. She's in the back. She's in the back. I stopped the car and looked in the trunk. But it was empty. I thought it was all a bad dream.

But when I went back to the house, Dorothy wasn't there. So where'd she go? So now he's saying, oops. I shot her accidentally, I think. I don't remember. It just happened. and then I cried on the toilet for a little while. Then I put her in the car.

I got in the car. Someone else was in there with me saying, she's in the back, she's in the back, she's in the back. He stopped. He looked in the trunk. She was gone. Right. And then he was like, I guess I should go home.

And he went home and she was just gone. So he's like, it's weird. She's gone. Yeah. I think his like really shitty lawyer put that together. His shitty lawyer was like, you need to talk about voices. Yep.

And you need to remove yourself from any of the actual events. And he was like, got it chief. And like throw in a little bit of magic. too with the disappearing act. A little bit of whimsy on there. Just a sprinkle. She's gone. She's gone.

I have no idea. Where'd she go? She's just, I opened the trunk. She's gone. Gone. Must have been magic. And just like that. Every little thing she does is magic.

She's just gone. I feel like he would have said that. He probably would have. Now, again, he said he didn't remember more than one shot and he didn't know who the other person in the car was who was saying she's in the back. Okay. Then he said, quote, sometimes I think she is dead. sometimes honey she's dead like that's yeah he said sometimes i think she's alive and laughing at my

predicament which i'm like i wish she was to be honest she's laughing at your predicament somewhere so he said quote but that body i saw in san bernadino was not my dorothy that's what he said on oh now she's yours now after this james start had a surprise he was like i got it like he thought This was it. He was so, he did the whole, like, surprise witness. Stop. He was calling this witness, and this witness gone on the stand and said that the night Dorothy's body was found, he had actually come across a man with bloody hands in that area.

Okay. Didn't call the police about it, though. That man was changing a tire. Like, wow. So we have another potential suspect because that was a big, like, oh, somebody else was in the area and they had bloody hands. That's pretty big. That's huge. What's going on?

It's true. The court went nuts and Starrett was like so smug about it. He was like, mm-hmm, I've been waiting to drop this one. Then Deputy District Attorney Barnes called a witness right after this one. This witness was ex-marine, an ex-marine named Fred Matusky. And Fred said, hello, I'm the guy that was changing my tire that night with bloody hands. And he said, I had gotten married four hours before that. And I cut my hands on taking the tin cans off of the back of my.

my car because it was the just-married car. Oh, that sucks. And he was like, I was literally getting married during the time that any of this was going down. I had lots of witnesses to say that I was there, and witnesses to say they saw me cut my hands on those. And he was like, I had bandages on my hands. Like, they weren't just bloody hands. Like, I wasn't just walking around like with bloody hands. Thank you for making the memory even worse though now. But he was like, cool, cool. He's like, I got married. It was awesome. Then I cut my hands not so great. I thought that would be the end of it, but here I am. But here I am to tell you that. hi, I'm an ex-marine and I did not kill this woman that I don't know.

Thanks. And cut her hands on, her hands and head off. Send us something for our wedding. So that whole like, surprise witness, here it is. Of Jay Starrett. It went like, ooh, boof. It was just wamp, wamp, wamp, which, yes, we love it. Now, Arthur Eggers was found guilty of first degree murder after they deliberated for, I think, a day.

He was? I know, it's crazy. the jury asked actually for life without parole that's what they were they said can we get a life without parole sentence instead of a death sentence because at the time it was going to be death oh okay the judge said the punishment for first degree murder is death and he was not going to say no to that do you know why they didn't want to sentence him to do you think they just like they were concerned that potentially he was insane or they were like i would rather i think they all maybe this group of people just really didn't want to sentence somebody to death which i get absolutely that must be a very heavy thing to do. Yes. And they ended up having to get a new jury because that jury wouldn't recommend that as a punishment. Oh, wow. So they had to get a whole new jury and they had his like to find out if he was sane.

So now his trial to find out if he was actually sane. That was on June 11th. And he was declared sane by three different doctors. Okay. Who were like he is lying and bullshitting. This is fake. Yeah. He was found sane by the jury as well in sentenced to die in the gas chamber.

Oh, man. Now he received two stays of execution. and a temporary reprieve thanks to his other sister, Etta. His sister, Edda, like, fought for him. And she got him two stays and that reprieve because they tried to argue that he was insane, but every single time he was found sane.

Okay. He would get that stay. Right. Date would get moved and then it would just get reset. They were just trying everything they could. Exactly. So that her brother didn't have to die. Now, he was offered a last second stay

as he was led to his death. Wow. The, like, literally offered one. And Los Angeles County Sheriff Eugene Bisculas told him he could have the stay of execution if he just told them where Dorothy's head and hands were. And he didn't do it. They were like, we can work to get you life instead of killing you if you just fucking tell us where those are. This motherfucker. No.

He would rather die. Being led to the gas chamber, he said, nope. Wow. Just, it's so eerie just to like accept your own death like that. And to just be like, no, I'm going to continue fucking with you until after my death. Like, you'll never find her head and hands. And in prison, he changed the story a million more times. He recanted the confession.

He maintained her in his innocence till the end. And he died in San Quentin's gas chamber on October 15th, 1948 at 1012 a.m. Goodbye. And his last words were, shot her. I may have, but I never cut her up. He went out with another story. With another bullshit lie. Dude, that's what you wasted your last words on.

We know you did. Your DNA is all over this and so was her skin. And just the way he said it shot her. I may have, but I didn't cut her up. So did somebody else come in and cut her up? Like somebody else was like, oh, cool, you did the work for me. I'm, I've been dying to cut someone up and I'm so glad I found this one. Like, that's what you came up with?

Who cut her up then, dude? Like, you didn't just shoot someone and somebody just happened to stroll by your bathroom and your own home and be like, oh, my God. I've been looking for someone to dismember. How coincidental. So cool that you've done that. That's unreal. That's unreal, to be honest.

That is the story of Arthur Eggers, and he is a fucked up human who is obviously dead now. All right. Well, thanks for that one. That was something. It was a wild one. I was like, this is just, and the fact that Dorothy's head and hands were never found bothers me. The fact that they just, like, couldn't ever find them because you're like, what did he do with them? And the fact that he was so confident that they would never.

never find them. He must have burned them somewhere, I would think. I don't know where. That's the thing. I'm like, I feel like he burned them like in the forest somewhere. Or buried somebody. Like, so deep somewhere. Or like burn them and then through the ashes and like water or something, like somewhere where it just isn't going to be found.

Yeah. But man, it's sad. That is really sad. And it's so sad for his adoptive daughters. I know. Like, that's horrible. What a awful way to find that out. Well, guys, thanks for listening.

Yeah. We hope that you continue to listen. Keep listening. Yes, please do. And we hope you. Keep it weird. But I said that one day you come home and you like see your wife and you just decide to kill her and then you come up with like a million and five different stories about why you killed her. Like you actually didn't kill her.

And then like I don't know. Like why did she throw red food coloring at you? She did not. Don't keep it as weird as. I actually do keep it so weird that like you throw red food coloring on somebody during a fight. Thanks. Bye. What?

kind of point it.