Morbid - The Suspicious Kidnapping of Sherri Papini

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

On November 2, 2016, thirty-four-year-old so-called “Supermom” Sherri Papini went out for a run near her home in Redding, California, and disappeared without a trace. Three weeks later, on Thanksgiving Day, Sherri was discovered on the side of the road in a nearby county, where she said her captors had released her.In the days that followed, Sherri claimed she had been kidnapped by two unknown Latin American women, who physically abused her, including branding her on the shoulder with the word “Exodus.” The case garnered considerable attention from the local and national media, but when it came to details on her abductors and their motives, Sherri was surprisingly tight-lipped, giving the police and FBI little to work with.In March 2022, more than five years after her supposed abduction, the nation was shocked to learn that federal agents had arrested Papini and charged her with faking her own kidnapping. A month later, Sherri pleaded guilty to the charges and was sentenced to more than a year in prison. The news was stunning and left everyone wondering, why would a seemingly ordinary and ostensibly happy mother orchestrate such a bizarre hoax?Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesABC News. 2016. "Missing California mom found alive after captor abandons her in restraints, sheriff says." ABC News, November 24.Ayestas, Jonathan. 2024. "Sherri Papini has yet to pay $300,000 fine for faked 2016 California kidnapping." CNN Newswire, March 26.Bella, Timothy. 2022. "A mother said she was kidnapped. Now she admits it was all a hoax." Washington Post, April 13.Bever, Lindsey, and Kristine Guerra. 2016. "Missing California mother found alive three weeks after her apparent abduction, police say." Washington Post, November 25.Bonvillian, Crystal. 2022. "Feds detail how missing mom branded, starved self in 2016 kidnapping hoax." Cox Media Group, March 9.CBS News, Sacramento. 2016. "Full text of November 30 press conference about Sherri Papini's abduction." CBS News, Sacramento, November 30.Federal Bureau of Investigation. 2022. Sherri Papini criminal complaint and affidavit. Criminal complaint, Los Angeles, CA: Federal Bureau of Investigation.Gumbel, Andrew. 2022. "California jogger Sherri Papini staged own violent kidnapping, FBI says." The Guardian, March 4.—. 2016. "Kidnapping, reverse ransom and a bounty: the strange case of Sherri Papini." The Guardian, December 30.Hurley, Beven. 2022. "Why did it take five years to charge 'supermom' Sherri Papini with fabricating her own abduction?" The Independent, March 4.Larimer, Sarah. 2016. "California mother was 'branded' and covered in bruises after apparent abduction, husband says." Washington Post, November 29.Longoria, Sean. 2016. "Mother of 2 goes missing near Redding." Record Searchlight (Redding, CA), November 4: 1.—. 2016. "Audio tells of Papini response." Record Searchlight, November 27: 1.Sabalow, Ryan. 2016. "Familty of 'supermom' holds on to hope." Sacramento Bee, November 12: 1.—. 2016. "Keep an open mind in unusual kidnap story, experts say." Sacramento Bee, December 3: B1.—. 2016. "Relative defends husband of missing 'supermom'." Sacramento Bee, November 9: A14.—. 2017. "Sheriff's office silent on Papini details." Sacramento Bee, January 31.—. 2016. "'Supermom' hasn't been seen since taking a jog." Sacramento Bee, November 8: A4.Sandhu, Amber. 2016. "Missing mom sought." Record Searchlight (Redding, CA), November 5: 1.Serna, Joseph. 2016. "A setback in kidnapping case?" Los Angeles Times, December 1: B3.Shulman, Alayna. 2016. "Sherriff gets help in search." Record Searchlight, November 8: 1.—. 2017. "Will 2018 bring more Papini details?" Record Searchlight, December 28: 6.Solis, Nathan. 2022. "Tale of abduction by Latinas fueled racial unease." Los Angeles Times, March 6: B2. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. And I'm Ash. And this is morbid. Hey. We're here. We're back. With a brand new wrap. With a brand new terrible case to tell you about. This is going to be a two-parter because I don't think I need to explain myself anymore.

You know me by now. You should just start saying, this is going to be a two-parter because I am who I am. Because I am who I am. And that's all that I am. But this is a really gnarly case. But before we get into it, I just wanted to say it was really fun to see everybody's walking up to the batters box song. You guys had some good ones. I feel so remiss.

One of the patrons commented, and they said that their song would be Bad Girls by MIA. And I was like, how did I not think of that? She literally did. She was like, oh, my God. What did I miss that? I love that song. And that's such a good walk-up song. Yeah, you guys, like, you pulled some out that I was.

I was like, oh, damn, you're right. That's a good one. But honestly, I think together we would all be a great team to watch, walk up to, at least walk up to the batters box. I don't know what would happen after that. You're good at sports. I'll carry you all. Whenever we go to a sporting event, I usually just say, go sports. Go sports.

So I don't really know how promising our team would be. At least we all have great walk-up songs. But keep them coming because it's been fun to watch. We appreciate it. And we also appreciate how much you loved Trid and Sheena being on. the listener tales episode. That was such a fun episode. I'm so glad that everybody liked it as much as they did. Yeah, you guys have been amazing. We were like, you know, you just never know with like guest episodes because, you know, we all listen to podcasts. We all get comfortable sometimes when anyone else

comes on. It's like, why are you here? It's like, you can't sit with us. Yeah. It can be tough and it's hard with a lot of people in the room to like make sure you're not talking over each other. So it was really cool to see that you guys like had as much fun with it as we had with it. And we'll be back. Yeah. we'll bring them back for sure because they're the best people ever. Literally. Thank you guys for being so kind and amazing about it. It made them feel so good too. So thanks, you guys.

You guys are wonderful. We love this little communion. We do. So let's just jump right into it today because we just want to, there's a lot to talk about in this. So this is the case of the really brutal murder of Katie Hewalka. This happened back in the 80s. It happened in Potsdam, New York. This is a crazy case, and I just want to start by saying that Brian McCarthy, the man who was

responsible for the crimes I'm about to describe, he's up for parole every 24 months. So every 24 months, the family of his victim, Katie Hawalka's family, has to fight to make sure he doesn't get parole. And I'm going to talk about this at the end of the episode as well, and I'm going to share a petition that's been created by the family to make sure that he doesn't get parole. I'm going to sign it. I think once you guys hear what he did, you are going to want to sign it to. And I really urge you to, but obviously listen for yourself.

Right. I think you'll come to the same conclusion. The family, this family really fights for Katie's legacy, like the Hewelka and like the extended family. They fight for her legacy. They fight for justice. And I really give them a ton of credit for putting themselves out there constantly and fighting for this. And the fact that they have to go before the parole board every 24 months and, like, like see this guy and just basically beg for him not to be let out which he's an animal right he's an

animal and in my opinion he deserves to be behind bars for the rest of his life it i think you'll agree i'm so nervous to hear about this yeah it's it's awful now again like i said i will i will put the petition in the show notes i will say it at the end again so we'll hear about it and And we'll talk more about it in the second part. We'll talk more about the parole stuff, what they've been through, what they say about it. So this tragic case takes place at Clarkson University in Potsdam, New York. And it took place on August 28, 1986. So a year after I was born.

Wow. Now, immediate side note, Clarkson University has a very interesting origin story. Oh, okay. And I am going to ask you to read a book that is on this case. I think it's the only book on this case. The author did an amazing job. His name is William D. LaRue. Oh, cool.

And I know. It's a cool name, just saying. But he, I mean, when he did such thorough research, he spoke with the family, he spoke with investigators, he poured over every single document in this case. He really wanted to get the whole thing out there. It's called A Stranger Killed Katie by William D. LaRue. And I'm going to obviously link it like we always do, but I just wanted to tell you right ahead of time that his information in there is amazing, you're going to get even more stuff that

I'm not going to put in here in that book. So I really encourage you to go read it. I love when you can just find such a good book on a case. Yeah, when somebody really did the due diligence, like it's really, it's nice when somebody really does it. It's like I want to make sure you guys read it. Now, it's again, like I said, super thorough, super engrossing. And he's really put a spotlight on Katie as a person. And also, her family. Like he's put a huge spotlight on her family, especially her parents who like just this seems like a really great family. It really does. Like the more I read about them, the more I was like, I just want to hang out with you guys. Like you just seem like a cool family that just

like supports and loves each other. I love that. But yeah, definitely check out that book. Now, according to LaRue, according to that book, and confirmed with additional sources, I went on like a deep dive to Clarkson University history. It's actually a memorial. It was a was made as a memorial thing, like a memorial thing after his death. It was after 57-year-old Thomas S. Clarkson, who was a businessman in 1894, it was after he died pretty tragically. Oh, really? Now, on August 14th of that year, 1894, he was helping his co-workers on a job at a sandstone quarry that he owned. Now, he was aiding them and moving a 4,400 pound steam pump. And suddenly, without warning, the pump began to tip over.

Oh my God. They all ran to get out of the way. He tripped and fell. And it literally fell on him. Oh, my God. Now, his employees and coworkers lifted, they actually all lifted the pump up. And he was able to, like, pull himself out, like crawl out.

Horrific. It truly is. He had a broken right femur. The tibia and fibia beneath it were crushed completely, like, like bone dust. He was taken to the hospital. And by August 19th, only a few days later, he had fallen into a coma and passed away. Oh. Yeah.

So it's really sad. That's tragic. Now, he had lived at the time, he was single and he was living with his sisters, Levinia, Frederica, and Annie. That's adorable. After his death, they decided they needed to do something to honor him. So they got together his sisters and decided it needed to be an institution of higher learning. And so they went with a technical,

school in Potsdam. They wanted that to be what was his legacy because he had always talked about how much he admired and supported higher education. Now, in 1896, using their money, they built and created the Thomas S. Clarkson Memorial School of Technology, which would later become Clarkson University. So it's just a tragic and very interesting beginning to the central location for this very tragic case. Right. Is there like talk that it's like cursed or something? I've no, I honestly have not heard anything that it's cursed because up until this point, it was a very safe school. This is a very safe community, really. Like, in the books and in a lot of the interviews I've seen with the family, they actually said they were very happy that she had chosen to go to this school

instead of one in the city. Oh, okay. Because this was so safe. And they weren't worried. Now, technically the evening of August 28, 1986 was where this story begins. Now, on that evening, 31-year-old Kim Avidiquian, I believe is how you say it. He was a security guard at Clarkson University. He found himself working the overnight shift. And he was tasked that night basically with protecting the computers that were being stored in the Walker Arena on campus. Now, he was just as he was a security guard. And at this time, the security guards were what I think the chief of police actually talks about it in the president of the university, they were basically just night watchmen.

Okay. Like they weren't properly trained to really handle a lot of craziness. Because there really wasn't a lot of craziness going on. Yeah. And I think they just like didn't really make a big like police force out of this whole thing. Right. But basically they were there to, you know, protect to make sure that nobody was robbing a building essentially. Like that or like doing, you know, that all the doors were locked.

Like all that kind of thing. Like they weren't really trained to handle like confrontation. of any kind, you know, just putting that out there ahead of time because it gets a little hairy. So he's working the overnight shift. He's just going to be in the Walker Arena on campus, making sure nobody's going to bust in there and try to steal the computers, which were like the new thing because it was like, the 80s. And everybody on campus got a computer. I think it was a Zenith computer, like, which is like one of the original ones. I was going to say it. That means nothing. It was like a big draw to the university because you all got your computer. That's cool. Now it's like

you got an iPad. Exactly. No. You get an iPad in like kindergarten. Literally. Now, he was doing his thing, basically looking out for any funny business going on. He was only one of two security guards around the campus at this time in the night slash morning. Small campus or large campus? I think it's a pretty good-sized campus, but again, it's just like not a lot going on. Quiet.

Now, around 3.25 a.m. on August 29th, 1986, he started to hear what he felt was someone banging on the doors of the arena. Ooh. So obviously that's concerning, especially at. at that time in the morning. Just going to say that. He contacted the other security guard that was on duty for the evening on campus, which was 30-year-old Donald Shanty. And he let him know, you know, I'm hearing something weird.

It sounds like somebody's banging on the doors. They might be trying to come in. I don't know. So Shanty was like, sure, like I'm going to head over there. So he heads over there because the guy, like, Avadiqui, Avadikian was in the Walker Arena. Shanty's, like, patrolling outside. Right. Great housewife once said, I believe in an excess of everything except moderation.

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so much more energy. It was amazing. I ended up getting a lot of energy and then I ended up playing for like hours to come. And I got a new fiend, which is always super exciting because getting a new fiend literally feels like you just got a new pet or a new child. I love my fiends so much. You guys are going to love best fiends. There are thousands of levels and there's always more to play. So go ahead and let enough as never enough be your mantra. Download best fiends for free from the app store or Google Play. Plus earn Eapes. even more with $5 worth of in-game rewards when you reach level five. That's Friends Without the R. Best Fiends. So he goes over there in his patrol car, and he turns into the area, and he said he could see one thing next to the arena immediately. And that was a couple that appeared to be having sex outside of the arena. Okay. On the grass, next to the building, around the back of the parking area. he said the man had dark hair and that he literally looked up at shanty as he drove in and then just continued what he was doing.

Okay. So the way it was described is that they could see the man from the back and the woman had her leg up and he was holding her leg. That is what they did. I'm only describing that so that you can understand why I and a lot of other people think that this should have been looked at a little bit. Yeah. Now, that's weird, right? Like, she's lying on the grass in front of him. Yeah.

Now, shanty at first, obviously, was like, what the fuck? Like, that's shocking to come across, I'm sure. But he had been working there for a couple of years. And he said, weirdly, he has come across students having sex outside. And he said, it's weird. It's weird to handle it. It's, like, not a good situation for anybody involved. Right.

And so he was kind of just like, oh, like, hopefully they're just going to leave because now they know I saw them. so maybe they'll just leave and yeah I don't want to be a part of this so he went to the front of the arena and he spoke to avidician so he just left them there and because he had shown the light on them and he went around and he was like hopefully they're not there anymore but like we're going to have to go over there and see okay so together they drive to the other side of the arena avidiccian and shanty and hoping that they had left but they were still there okay but now the man was trying to be inconspicuous and seemed to be like crouching like trying not to be seen. So they drove away again. Okay. This is when I'm like, why did you drive away when he was hiding?

Now, my immediate thought was, why are we just allowing students to have sex outside the Walker Arena on campus at 325 in the morning? Right. Like, that is illegal. Like, why are we allowing that? Like, that's illegal everywhere, actually. And also, why aren't they going to make sure this woman is okay? Yeah. And these questions may be yours too. And I'm assuming they are. There's a few things here. it's a weird position. You should make sure she's okay. Well, because, I mean, the first thing for me is, like, you can't see her face. So you don't know if she's okay.

She's lying down and he's not. Like, okay, you saw her leg, but like, but that's a man can move a woman's leg. He's controlling it. Exactly. So it's like she's laying down. He is not. It's 3.25 in the morning on a night when all the students were out at bars and everything, you should make sure she's awake.

Yeah. Like, that should be a thought in your head. again there's other things with this but to me I'm like what are you doing I also feel like this unfortunately happened in a time where we weren't looking into these things no definitely not which is really sad exactly but so there definitely should have been they should have stopped this absolutely they definitely should have not even just for the assault if that is what's occurring but just because you can't have sex on campus if that was the case yeah it's like you got to stop this man. You can't let people like be having sex outside on campus. You just can't like that that

should be part of your job is to make sure that doesn't happen. Like you're, if you're allowing that, you're setting a precedent. Exactly. But then to play a bit of devil's advocate because I truly don't think these security guards were properly trained at all for this shit. And that's on the university, to be quite honest. They're not police officers. So they haven't been given training in this kind of thing, at least not in depth. They're basically, they're not trained to observe that in the way that we're thinking about it in that moment. Like hindsight, sure. But they're probably in the moment just like, oh, God, I don't want to deal with this.

It would be like if you and I were like seeing that. Like we don't essentially is. I don't know what we're supposed to do. That's the thing. It's essentially any of us seeing that because they are not trained at all. I have no more training than you or I do. Like they're literally just there so that someone is there. Just for like a body.

Right. But and it's like especially in the 80s, they're really just around to make sure those doors are locked. No one's stealing those zenith computers. That's it. So to them, according to all police reports that I could find and both of their own words, they thought this was just two students consensually having sex. They were trying to make this situation stop in the easiest way possible without having to actually have some weird interaction with them. Okay. They were trying to do it at like a arm's distance. Like we're going to flash the light on them. Hopefully they'll get up and leave and we don't have to talk to them or have some weird situation. In a weird way, I'm also like,

like you're kind of respecting their privacy question, which is not even privacy. If that was the case, there's a lot of angles to it for sure. But now I would have to say I'd advise this, that, you know, this kind of situation always be looked into. Because I believe it would be more routine to always check and make sure nothing unsavory is happening. And that it is indeed just a mutually bad decision made by two consenting adults. Right. If that's the case, then bye, see you later, go on your way, don't do this again, that's gross. You would hope that today it would be treated differently. That's the thing.

But on the flip side, you got to intervene, man. Like, you don't know if she's safe. And that's like, to me, I'm like, you got to look at that. I can see both sides. I totally get. I'm not going to, like, it's by no means, you know, anyone's faults, but Brian McCarthy's faults. But they're just, I'm like, I can understand why the family would be upset.

Of course. Knowing that two security guards saw the, progress, like this in progress and didn't stop it immediately. So it's like, I get that. Because I'm assuming a life could have been saved. And I understand that. So what we'll find out is that likely I'm not sure if it would have absolutely saved something from happening, but who knows? You just don't know. That's the thing. And we could sit here and be like, you just don't know. And the family having that in their head that you just don't know. Yeah. It's like, that's hard. But then these security guards, I don't, and I don't think anybody believes that they had any ill intention

or they wanted something bad to happen. They were just kind of negligent, to be honest. But again, I take it more to the university to train them properly and to have people that are more trained and ready to deal with this kind of thing. Because it's on the university to ensure the safety of its students. Of course. And that's the thing. So there's really just like a trickle-down effect of just like bad decision-making going down here.

But Alan H. Clark, the president of the university at the time, later commented on this whole thing. And he said, quote, they were night watchmen. They weren't charged with enforcing public morality. Yeah. And it's like, well, maybe they should have been. Yeah? Like, that's a bad thing.

Or if they, if it weren't them, like, have a different set of actual security guards monitoring the campus. Exactly. And what they did is normally, like, on campuses now, you know, there's like police forces attached to them. It's like, yeah. There's a lot more going on. But in here, they had two ways where you're,

radios that didn't even connect to the police. So they would have to go find a phone to call the police if some emergency did happen. Yeah. Which is what happened here. They had to go find a phone. Oh, man. Because again, this is the 80s. They don't have a cell phone on them. Right. So their two-way radios didn't even connect to the police station, which is like, that's negligent, guys. Definitely. And that's not on the security force. It's on the campus. It's just a lot going on. A lot of missteps. But he basically, the president said, you know, they were initially checking it. on the noises they heard around the Walker Arena doors thinking they were possibly stopping a burglary in progress. And when they saw what they believed to be two students having sex,

they dealt with it second and kind of in a hands-off approach, which is wild to me, because again, shouldn't be happening even if it's consensual. Right. But, you know, whatever. Now, a university spokesman later said, too, quote, they had no way of knowing they were stumbling upon the worst crime to take place on this campus in its 93-year history. Oh, my gosh. Which, of course they didn't. Of course they did not. And I'm sure they have a lot of regrets, to be honest.

And for that, I feel for them. But they also were not given the correct tools to know that. And they didn't really give themselves the correct tools. There's a lot. Now, the police chief Clinton Maytaught, who is a player in this whole case, he actually interviews Brian McCarthy. He's a part of this whole entire thing. He said he agreed that, and which I do too, that they were not in

intentionally ignoring an assault in progress because they just didn't know it was happening. And I fully agree with that. Right. Now, he said it was definitely a casual response to students out in the open like that. He was like, that's pretty fucking casual to just be like, hopefully they go away. But it wasn't like, again, they were trained to handle it appropriately. Do I think they intended to harm for harm to come to Katie? No, not at all. No.

Do I think they were negligent in stopping this regardless of whether it would have saved Katie or not? Yes. Yeah. And that's the end of my thoughts on it, but I would be interested to hear what anybody else thinks, too. But either way, they decided to leave again after the second time. And this is after he was hiding. whoever. After he was kind of hiding, which could have been that he's embarrassed and that he was hiding. And I'm sure that's what they assumed. That's probably what they were assuming. That they didn't want to get caught.

Exactly. Like they were trying to hide now. Now they apparently, so they leave again. And at this time, apparently they discussed with each other, you know what? Should we call the actual police now? Because again, that's the protocol for when things get like crazy. They were like, we've given him a couple of times. They're not moving.

I don't know what to do. But they were like, we really don't want to call for. this because we're and I think that it was seemed to me from what I've read in different places they didn't want to call because they were kind of given the notion that like call for emergencies don't be calling willy-nilly right and I think they were like is this an immer I don't like oh no so again it's a lot of like ah that's a tough situation right so they were like no we don't want to call let's do it one more time we'll shine our headlights on them until they get embarrassed and just leave. If it doesn't work, last resort, we call the cops. Basically, they were going through a three

strikes and you're out kind of approach here. All right. I can understand the thought process. I can. That's the thing. You can understand both sides of this. I can 100% understand how on the side of things, you know, Katie's family and anybody on that side of thing being like, what the fuck. Because I am like, what the fuck. Because if that's your loved one, you're thinking like, no, like this could have been stopped. And you were the people that could have stopped. And even I'm thinking that. I'm like, what the thought? And I still think that.

When I take myself over to the other side, I'm like, I understand the thought process that you, you didn't think that if you had known an assault was happening, you would have jumped into action, but you didn't know. But you didn't go to find out. Right. But it's also like. And it's easy. It's easy to see it that way as somebody who's not actually connected to the person this happened to.

Exactly. And it's like, I have never been in their shoes in that situation. So I can't say what I would think or do. Exactly. And I've never been in the family shoes. So it's like I'm not going to speak for either one of them. But I can say I see 100% both sides. And I respect both sides totally.

I just hate that. I just hate this. It's a tough one. So again, they're going to drive over there a third time. They're going to shine the light on them. If they don't move, they were calling the cops. That was their decision. I get that.

So they drive over there again. And now they see that the man is gone. So they see that they're gone. And at first they're like, oh, my God. Thank goodness they left. Like it worked. But then they look closer and they see that the woman is still there. She is lying there alone now on the grass.

Very still and partially nude. Now, this is tough. I just want to let you guys know. This is like we're talking about sexual assault. We're talking about a very rough assault. I just want to let you know. When they got closer to her, they noticed she was lying in a pool of blood that surrounded her head.

Oh, gosh. And they freaked out now. Like immediately they spread. sprang into quick action. Okay. So they really went, they went right into action. Avidiquian ran to call police and Shanty ran to the woman to try to help her. Okay.

Now, in the police report, Shanty said, quote, the female was having a hard time breathing. She was laying flat on her back and I think her airway was filled with blood. And he stated he had tilted her head to the side to try to aid her and clearing the blood from her mouth to try to help her breathe easier because he said she was gurgling and seemed to be choking. Oh, God. Now, he was very worried. He said he was the struggling to breathe.

There was so much blood. And when police soon arrived on the scene, they stated that when they got there, Shanty was still holding her head in his hands to comfort her. So this is, these are good people. Thank you. That's the thing. So it's like, I by no means think they intended for harm to come to this woman. And I think that action alone shows that they would have done if they were,

if they had known what this was in the first place. Yeah. And I am, I'm very glad that she had like somebody was. comforting her in that moment for sure and that they weren't just stepping back and like not touching her because it's like I'm glad she had someone. So they looked to the wall behind the victim and there was blood spattered up to what they said like seven feet high on the wall. Oh my God. Immediately investigators theorized that this woman's head had been smashed into the wall at least a few times. Now police were on their way and Avidiquian ran back to the scene.

But on the way to the scene, he noticed a man with dark hair balled up under a metal. stairway. And this was about 50 feet from the victim's body. Like hiding. Like hiding. Now, he didn't know if it was somebody trying to hide or he said it could have been someone who was hurt and like, like balled up under there. So he notified police. Like he let them know. He was like, um, by the way, like somebody's over there. So a couple of the police officers went to the victim and a couple of them went to the man under the stairs. Now officer John Kaplan, officer Dale Culver, Officer David Bartlett, and Sergeant James Lewis, were the first ones on the scene, along with like the EMTs and everybody. They dragged the man out from the stairway immediately.

I'm so glad that he was still there. I thought you were going to say they got over there and he was gone. Nope, he was conscious, he was unhurt in reality and intentionally hiding. He had dark hair and a scruffy beard. He had blood on his shirt, and he was over-dramatically whining and bitching about his back being hurt. Like they tried to pick him up and he was like, no, no, no, my back. Owie. Like freaking out.

Fuck off. So they found an ID on him that said he was Brian McCarthy and he was 23 years old. As they tried to ascertain who he was and what the fuck he was doing under the stairs near a woman who was battered beyond recognition, he kept asking, how's the girl? Uh-huh. And they found this strange. And it was also not coming off as sincere. It was coming off as almost like a taunting. Like, how's the girl?

like and they were like what the fuck she was because he knew what he did to her now he claimed immediately he claimed he was only there because he said i heard her screaming and i tried to save her but the attacker who was a man with a black jacket had kicked him in the back and he had passed out he had passed out but then he had it underneath those figures during his heroic act of trying to save somebody wild although he had some real fucking problems telling them where where exactly on his back this occurred because it went from his lower back to his upper back to his head at one point because he's a lying sack of shit. Now, when they saw the victim, they could see she was blonde with her, but her hair was completely soaked in blood. Oh, God. Her face was bruised, swollen, and battered savagely. She was partially nude wearing only a sweater and a button up that had been crudely

pulled up to expose her body. As emergency personnel showed up, she coded at one point and they brought her back to life. Wow. Now, at the hospital, the victim was identified as 19. year old Clarkson University student, Katie Hualca. 19. 19. And you said this is August.

Yeah. So this is like before anything even started on campus? She had been dropped off by her mother only the day before for her second year at Clarkson. Oh, my God. Her mom was literally woken up before dawn with a police officer calling her and saying that her daughter, Katie, was attacked on campus and was at the hospital. I can't even imagine how that would feel at all. but a day after you drop your kid off at school.

And that, I mean, because that happened at like three in the morning, that was literally that night essentially. Literally. Oh, my God. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. People don't always realize that physical symptoms like headaches, teeth grinding, even some digestive issues can be indicators of stress. And let's not forget about doom scrolling, sleeping too little, sleeping too much,

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I'm going to look it up because I don't want to fuck it up. So hold, please. All right. It's Oneida. I was right, but I wanted to make sure. Now, her parents are Terry Connolly and Joseph Hewalka. Her mother worked in sales at Pitney Bowes in Syracuse, and her father was a dentist. in Oneida. Now, she was the second oldest of four children with one older sister, Betsy, one younger

sister, Carrie, and one younger brother, Joe Jr. Although Terry and Joseph divorced in 1972 when the kids were very young, it was an extremely amicable divorce. There was no bad blood, no custody issues, nothing. Wow, that's like literally unheard of. Oh, yeah. It was one of those healthy divorces that you rarely hear about. Yeah. So the kids just adjusted. And we're totally happy and fine because there was no conflict and no turmoil around them. Now, Joe Sr., he remarried a woman named Janice in 1974, and the family's blended and got along perfectly. Awesome. Now, Katie's friends and family only ever referred to her as Katie or Kate.

Her mom liked to call her never a bad day, Kate. Stop. Because everyone said she was truly just a happy young woman and had been since she was a child. Never a bad day, Kate. Yeah, never a bad day, Kate. She saw the best in people, and she took every opportunity to make the most of her life and make accomplishments for herself. Now, she and her siblings were so close. Oh.

So close. Everyone who knew this family knew those kids would always have each other's back. And this family was just a really big, supportive unit together. Yeah, it sounds like it. They would, like, help each other out. They would always hang out with each other. there were stories in the book that I told you guys about of like little Joe Joe Jr. He like was having trouble swimming at one point.

All three of his sisters dove in and like saved him. Oh. Like without even thinking. I love that. It's just like things like that. They were on it. They took care of each other. Now again, according to the book, on December 21st, this like really blew my mind.

On December 21st, 1975, all the kids and Joe senior. and Janice survived a house fire when their Christmas tree went up in flames. Oh, that is so scary. Now, they had gone over to Joe Sr.'s house for, like, to open gifts and all that. So Terry was at her home when this was happening. So she went, and I'll tell you the whole story, but when she woke up, she was like, I almost lost my entire family in one swoop. Yeah.

And like it didn't even hit her until later. And I encourage you to read the book I'm linking because he tells this story in such detail and it will give you like goosebumps. Oh, man. Goose bumps the way this story went down. But I'll give you like the overview. So the house fire happened because the Christmas tree went up in flames and they survived because Joe Sr. leapt 30 feet from the house, the roof, onto the driveway and then caught

his children and his wife as they jumped into his arms. Are you kidding me? He literally told them all, you don't have, they were all on the roof. And he was like, you don't have to worry. I'm going to get down there. you will jump into my arms and nothing will happen to you and they all trusted him. Not one of them hesitated. Holy shit.

Like even like Janice said it, she was like, those kids, I know, I have very much have goosebumps. He said not one of those kids even took a thought about it because their dad said, I will catch you and they believed it because he never gave them a reason that he wouldn't. I hate that like this beautiful family was like what had to deal with this. Right. Now, so he caught them all and his wife. wife. He did this after he fell, when he jumped, he broke his right leg. I was going to say, and his left ankle in his own jump. And then caught everyone else. And then caught them all after he did that.

Wow. During the escape from the home, the kids all helped each other. They made sure to get their little five-year-old brother themselves. Like the girls all made sure to get little Joe. These are the kind of parents. They were in the kind of family they were. And they seriously just seemed to be what what you would want in a family. Like if you could write down, here's what I want from a family, they are it. I would want my dad to save me and catch me after he breaks his femur and ankle. And you have, you got to read the book because there's a couple of little stories in there that I want the author to be able, because he's the one who got them, so I want him to be

able to tell you it. Right. And they're just like little heartwarming moments that happened during this. Like there's one that just like my heart melted. And you really got to read it because it's just, it's a really amazing story. but Katie was close to all of her siblings like they all were but she and Carrie her little sister were literally best friends they did everything together in the book Carrie is quoted as saying my friends couldn't believe that my sister and I were so close and that she drove me to school every day many of them had older sisters who wouldn't even acknowledge them in the lunchroom hallway oh and she's like and literally like I think what was it they went to the same prom even though they were in different grade and like Katie was super excited that Carrie was going to be at her prom and it was like that kind of thing. Now, eventually Terry, the mom, married a man named Martin Connolly and Joe ended up divorcing Janice and marrying a woman named Donna.

These new stepparents got along really well with the kids and the spouses and things just were continued to be smooth and happy for everybody. Now, Katie was in the brownies when she was little. She took pride in being a community helper whenever she could. This family, like, raised money for, like, there were, like, kids in the neighborhood, like, a kid that was sick in the neighborhood. The kids raised money for them to get, like, medical treatment. Wow. Yeah.

She was a great student. She had a ton of friends. In eighth grade, she received a very coveted good citizen award because she was just such an all-around helper and, like, pleasant, smart, all of that. She was a babysitter for a lot of the neighbors and would literally watch, like, their infants in, like, eighth grade. and was apparently amazing. She was wicked good with kids and was super trusted. Now, in high school, she was a cheerleader. She was part of the student council.

She was on the pep club. She was student body president at one point. Hell yeah, Katie. She played clarinet and band. She was on the yearbook staff. She was treasure of Kappa Epsilon Phi sorority in high school. She was the quintessential preppy kid, too, aesthetically. Yeah.

Like, she wore those, like, oversized polo shirts and, like, collared shirts with the, like, oversized sweaters. she was just cool. Like I was like, oh, I want to hang out with Katie. Like, Katie just looks cool. And she graduated with honors, and she was accepted at her first choice school, which was Clarkson University, where she was going to pursue finance or business degree. I feel like she would have absolutely slayed anything she did.

She would have killed it. Like, the fact that she would have lit the world on fire. The fact that she did so many things in high school alone. Yeah. And like not only within high school, but outside of high school at home and in the neighborhood. And I just hate that the only reason we know all of this is because of this horrible thing that happened. And I feel like it's like you can tell that these parents like instilled such good values in these kids because they just without thought or being asked would do things to help each other and everybody else. And it's like that's parents.

That's parents doing doing what they should do. It's like the way that their kids are says so much about who they are for sure. And just that story alone of her father. Of her father and them trusting implicitly that he would. Right. Like that shows you that those kids felt safe with those parents. Right. And that they created like a family system that they, that is like something that I wish

everybody could have forced to be reckoned with. Yeah. Now, Clarkson University actually didn't start letting in women's students until 1964. Wow. It was an all-men's college. And one of the reasons Katie wanted to go there was she, and this was she, and this was according to her family. Her sister Carrie especially said she wanted to be part of the movement to break down barriers

for women there. Hell yeah. She was ready to show that like women belong in higher education. I'm going to like fuck the world up. Rock on Katie. She literally wanted to go there to like buck all the stereotypes. To stick it to the man. Yeah.

She's just so fucking cool. Like it's this just sucks. Now during her first year there, she made a ton of friends immediately. Obviously. Like who wouldn't want to be friends with Katie? She had a roommate named Nancy Parks, and they were like immediate sisters, like best friends. Poor Nancy, like when she found out what happened, it was like the most devastating thing because Nancy had transferred out to another school. So she heard it like far away.

Right. That must have been so helpless. But Katie stuck it out at Clarkson, even though Nancy transferred out. And she returned for her second year to live with three roommates in the Woodstock Village apartment. on campus. So that's where she was going to be living that second year. Now, on the evening of August 28, 1986, she had arrived on campus only the day earlier with her mother and sister Carrie. Of course, Carrie came to drop her off. Now that night, she went out with friends and her roommates to a bar they frequented off campus called Bogies. She hung out with friends and Clarkson University students. One of them

in particular was Todd Kilburn that night. He was like a frat guy. He was like a really good friend of hers. He seemed like a sweet dude. He and Katie had some beers and then left the bar around 2.30 a.m. Okay. And I guess they all were like using fake IDs because that's just like, because it's college. I wish I still had mine. I kind of want to see yours actually. You made me rip one of mine up. I did. Guess what the? She had a backup. Of course she did. No. He walked, Todd walked back with her to campus, which was about a mile away. And he actually insisted he was like, I'm walking to your apartment with you. Yeah. He was just being a gentleman. Good guy. No, they started to walk and they stopped

because she had actually hurt her foot, I think, during the summer. And she was like getting over the foot injury. So every now and then she'd be like, yeah, I got to stop. Okay. And he also just had to pee because they had been drinking beer. Because beer. He broke the seal. At one point, they stopped because he was going to pee by a fence near a Kentucky fried chicken, of course. Iconic. And this was very close to campus. So when they stopped for this, Todd said he noticed another male with dark hair was peeing by the fence as well. Didn't think anything of it because it's, you know, it's like 2.30 in the morning. Dudes be peeing.

Everybody's back on campus. Everyone's peeing everywhere because everybody's been drinking. Yeah. You know, everyone's just peeing everywhere. They're still in summer mood. Exactly. Now, it was here that there was also a gate behind the Kentucky Fried Chicken. It was like outside of the parking lot.

There was a gate there that leads to a shortcut that was used by students to get back on campus. the shortcut started it started right at the Walker arena on campus okay now at the gate Todd went to walk through the gate with her but Katie was like no like just go back to the to the frat house she was like it's too far of a walk you're walking so far out of your way and now you're going to have to walk way back like I don't want you to do that I feel bad and he was like no no no like I'm fine like I want to make sure you're okay and she was like it's campus like I'm on campus now I'm okay and he was like you know what you're right And he was like at the, why would I think?

I get it. And he walked her all the way to campus. Yeah. And he tried. And campus is supposed to be safe. Why would she ever think that it wasn't safe? Right. Neither one of them would.

She had spent a whole year there. Exactly. So she was like, it's campus. Like I'm going through the gate. I'm fine. Like I've walked this walk how many times, I'm sure. And then she was being thoughtful Katie and being like, I don't want you to have to walk extra miles to get home at 2.30 in the morning when I can just go on campus and I'll be fine.

I wish there was a shuttle. So they were both just being like very, I know I was thinking that too, but they were both just being very considerate of each other. And it's like, man. Now, he was quoted as saying that when he left her, she was completely fine. She was not impaired. Like she was not drunk. And he said, quote, she was in good enough condition to walk back to the dorms or I would not have left her go by herself. At that time, she was walking and talking quite well.

Her speech was not slurred. And it had been at least an hour since she had her last drink. Okay. So he was just making sure like, I did not. let her stumble onto campus by herself. It doesn't sound like it. And it doesn't sound like Katie was the kind of girl who would stumble into campus. It just doesn't seem that way.

Now, unfortunately, Katie ended up battered, beaten, and assaulted behind Walker Arena. Only moments after this moments. Like, he was walking home and this was happening. And was that Brian who he saw Pian? It seems like that is Brian who is seeing them both go there and he followed Katie into the campus. Brian's a literal fucking monster.

And don't worry, we'll get into what a monster he is, but like, I just hate this guy so much. Now, after the devastating phone call that their child had been assaulted on campus that morning, Katie's parents got together with the stepparents and they all immediately went to the hospital. They left the kids, like the siblings at home because they were like, we don't know what we're going to see. Right. So they all arrived at House of the Good Samaritan Hospital in Watertown, New York. This should tell you how bad this was. At one point, Katie was wheeled by her family in the ICU. They all saw her and did not know it was her.

Oh, my goodness. They thought it was somebody who had been in like a car accident. Well, and you had said that she, like, she was pretty much like, oh, it was horrific. And she, they watched her go right by them with tubes and lines and all manner of life-saving machines attached to her. And in the book, Terry says she knew it was Katie. and she actually said that's Katie. And I guess they were all like, no, that's not Katie. Like don't do, like, that's not her.

And they were like, and she was like, I just knew it was her. Like, and that's just like mom shit. She just knew. And I don't think it's because she recognized her because none of them did. I think it's she just knew. Like, that's just like a mom's kind of feeling. And obviously this family is so close. I fully believe that was just like,

intuition, like knowing. But that should tell you how bad and how ruthless and monstrous Brian McCarthy is. He's a fucking creature from the depths. He's awful. Now, she was in intensive care and on life support, and the doctors told them that she had been beaten so severely in the head that if she recovered, she was likely to have significant brain damage. So she would never be the same if she recovered. But they said, we don't even know if she's going to recover. Okay. Now, meanwhile, reports had come in that the previous night, August 28th, a man named Robert Warren Jr. had picked up a hitchhiker on Route 11 going towards Morristown, New York.

This hitchhiker, he said, reeked of alcohol. He appeared to be in his early to mid-20s. He had dark hair and a scruffy beard. He told them his name was Brian. And he asked Robert Warren, Jr. if he could give him a ride to Potsdam. And he agreed. So he's like, at this time, everyone picked up hitchhikers. This was not weird. He's like, I thought he was a college kid. I was like, sure, I'll bring it to campus. Yeah. He said he just babbled about like anything and everything, including saying that he was possibly related, that he was related to the Snells family, which is a very wealthy and well-known family. And Warren Jr. was just kind of like trying to get him to his destination because he was like,

he seemed he was not like threatening me or anything, but he was like wired and like just freaking me out a little bit. Like I was like, I just want to get this like dude out of my car. Yeah. Well, and it's, it was later when he picked him up. It was later. So he wasn't like crazy late. It was probably like 10.30. But still. He was like at night a wired stranger in your car, no thing. And he was like, he already seemed like he was on one and it's like not that late. Right. So he was like, I would really like him just to get out of my car.

Yeah. But he was being nice and he ended up telling Warren Jr. That he actually, he was like, you know what? It's crazy. I actually got in a pretty violent confrontation with someone earlier today at the Chateau Bar in Winthrop. And he said the guy accused him of stealing three bucks. So he told them they got in a fight and he had shot the guy in the leg and then fled.

and he said he planned to make sure that guy was dead by 4 a.m. All right. So Warren Jr's like, you want to get out here? Cool. You want to get out right there? Yeah. So he was like, he told him. So then Brian says to him, I have a gun.

Do you want to see it? Nope. No, I do not want to see it. Do not show me that gun. Like he literally was like, bro, I believe you. Don't show me that gun because I'm going to kick you out of this car. So he didn't show him. He dropped it.

And he dropped him off in the downtown area of pop. Stam around 1030 p.m. And then he went right to the police, which I was like, good for you, Robert Warren, Jr. He went right to the police with his story because he said he was worried this guy was dangerous or that he had indeed shot someone. He's like, I didn't know if he was lying, but like, I'm not going to just let that go. And he said that he was making sure he was dead by the end of the night. He might be trying to kill someone. So he filled out a description in the report, and he said his hair color was dark. He had the scraggly dark beard. And he said he could remember saying that he was wearing

a silver watch with a silver elastic band. And he's like, that's the one thing I just like noticed. Hey, saw it. And they put out the description for this guy and officers were on the lookout, but they didn't see him that evening. And it sounds a lot like Brian McCarthy, no? It sure does. That's because it was Brian McCarthy. Yeah. Now, Brian McCarthy was born

in Meriden, Connecticut. He was the oldest, who gives a shit when he was born, he was the oldest child of six siblings, and he was indeed related to the Snell family. His mother was Florence Snell, and his father was Milton McCarthy. Now, quick note, his mother Florence was working at Clarkson University when he attacked Katie. Oh, wow. He used the campus where his mother worked to do this. Wow. That sounds like some Edmund Kemper shit. I was, you took the words directly out of my brain. I was like, damn, okay. Now, as a child, Brian was described as a Dennis the Menace kind of kid. Everyone said he was just mischievous, always getting into something. In the beginning, it was never bad stuff. It was just like he was an

annoying kid that just always did shit. Okay. But when he got into his teen years, he wasn't Dennis the menace anymore. He was turning into an actual bad kid, like a criminal. He was doing drugs. He was drinking. He was just doing, like, hanging out with bad crowds. And he was actually kicked out of his home in his late teens because he was so out of control and had quit high school before graduating was just like a wreck. Was there any explanation as to this behavior? They said that, Like, he has siblings who were completely fine. Huh. So there's no evidence that there was abuse in this home or anything like that.

I think he just, he's an angry kid. That's the thing. It's not always something that happened in your childhood. Absolutely. I feel like more often than not it is. For sure. And it can help aid it along. So it's strange that all his siblings are just completely fine.

Yeah. It seems like I don't know what was going on. But his family name and his family had kept him out of serious trouble because they were able to keep his crimes from the. the public in the papers when he, like before he became an adult at least. But when he became an adult, it was harder to stop the fallout from the criminal shit. My God, back in the day when I used to shop for wine, I was like, guys, I'm not a Somali. Like honestly, sometimes it feels like you need a degree in grapes to find a good wine. I mean, I guess you can shop by label or you can

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and fleeing from police. Yikes. Then he was charged with larceny again, third-degree burglary, forgery several times, and lots of drug possession charges. When he was 20, he started a relationship with a 16-year-old. So illegal as fuck. Gross. He did this in upstate New York while he was staying with friends.

He almost killed her brother when he dared to stand up to him and tell him to leave his sister alone because her older brother was like, you fucking predator. Now, he literally beat him to a pole. and broke his jaw. Oh, oh, my God. After that incident, he took this girl to Potsdam with him. His parents would not allow them to stay with them because they were like, you are fucking disgusting.

No. That's low-key kidnap. They were like, absolutely not. And so they were like, no, you're not staying with us. So they ended up staying with friends. And he would make her burglarize places with him just to get money, like, including a church and shit, just to get like money for food and drugs and stuff. Wow.

Now, it all fell apart because he was arrested for these crimes and she had like a breakdown and was like, I just want to go back to my family because she was a child. So her parents actually bought them both bus tickets to come back where they were living in Virginia, but they wouldn't allow him to come. Like they gave them both bus tickets to go out of there, which was, wow, I would not give that fucker a bus ticket. I would tell that kid to kick rocks. But they made, he had to go somewhere else, but she could come home.

luckily. They wouldn't allow him to come. He just bailed on her with no warning. And it was because in 1985, he went to jail for stealing a car. Okay. So he just went to jail and that's the last she saw of him. I'm very glad. After he like traumatized her and like brought her various places with him. But I'm so glad that she got out of it like physically. Thank goodness. Because had she stayed with him, he absolutely would have heard her. 100%. But unfortunately, so he went to when he got caught stealing the car, he went to prison and he was out on, he was going to go for like two years, but he got out early on parole because the system is

so smooth and great. And they totally know who should be out and who shouldn't. Yeah, definitely. They're really great at that. Immediately when he went out on parole, he got caught again for larceny and got 60 days in jail. Because it's like, dude, this is a pattern here. We are escalating here.

Exactly. But, and here this happens more oftentimes than not, New York and Virginia never communicated this. Or he probably would. had gotten in trouble with Virginia for violating parole, and he would have not been around to attack Katie Hualka. Because this happened right before. It is mind-boggling how many times this happens. Paperwork. And how people haven't just realized that clerical errors, you just don't know. We don't have time for them. You know what? There's certain times when a clerical era is fine,

when it's like I'm returning the grill that I bought from Lowe's. That's fine. You fucked it up. We'll figure it out. Sure. You can't have a clerical area. era when it's somebody who is violent criminal and could and literally ends up killing someone right like that's not a clerical error that's you being horrible at your job that's a monumental fuck up you should be fired immediately now he was already someone as we've seen that has a past of violence and assault yeah and only one month before katie's attack in july he had gotten into a fight at a bar with leonard f page who was a 35 year old insurance agent in the area again this is only a month before Katie's attack. They had

gotten into a fight and they ended up bringing that fight into an alleyway next to the bar. McCarthy beat Paige to the point of very nearly killing him. Like almost killed him. So this is like the second person that he's incredibly like violent and like

unstoppably raging at. Yes. Now he didn't press charges for some reason. Maybe. I mean he probably just didn't want to continue to go through. Yeah, but it's like whoa. And he was probably terrified of this guy. I'm sure. Now, yeah, it's wild. Now, seven hours after the attack on Katie, McCarthy was interviewed by, and that was just to show you like what kind of animal we're talking about in up to a month before that.

And was it ever verified that he had shot somebody in the leg before this? So they mentioned it in here, but no, it was never, they never were able to bring that up. Either the person didn't report it or it didn't happen and he was just bullshitting. I feel like it might have happened. It definitely could have happened. Like, absolutely. I wouldn't be shocked at all. But it becomes a thing where they were never able to verify that information.

But there were people that said there was like a little altercation in the bar. Okay. So maybe he just took it to like a higher level than it actually was. But only seven hours after the attack on Katie, McCarthy was interviewed by Chief, was it Maytot? I think it's how you say it. Okay. And Lieutenant Terry McKendry. Now he immediately told them he would talk because of co-opened.

according to him, he had nothing to hide. Yeah. Yeah. He told them that at the time Katie was attacked, he was peeing by a fence near the Walker Arena. He was the man Todd Kilburn saw. Yep. He said he was walking past the arena after peeing and he heard some screams.

And he said he heard someone scream again and then again and again. And he yelled something, but he didn't know what. And so he just burst into action because he's such a fucking hero. And without any thought for his own safety, he just tried to help this stranger who was screaming. But then again, he said, I didn't see her. I just heard her, but I was just running towards it. And he said, he ran by some steps. And then he said, no, wait, I went into where the building dips in. And like, so he's going, he goes like back and forth with it. He's like, so I ran by some steps. Nope, no, I went to this part. Oh, actually, no, you know what? You're right. I went around

this side. Oh, wait, that doesn't fit. So no, I'm going to say I went over here. He corrects himself in real time because he is lying just in real time. Yeah. And he's not good at it. Yeah. So the chief, literally, Chief Mayotte was like, I just let him ramble because he was just incriminating himself as he went. So I was like, yeah, totally. Seriously. Like that's definitely what you did. Was he on drugs at this point? Um, I don't think he was on, well, actually, he wasn't technically on drugs at this point, but he was definitely impaired. So he could have been on something. I'm, that's not verified, but he was definitely drinking. Okay.

So, yeah. So he's just correcting himself from real time. But he says he ran around to where the building dips in. He saw nothing there. And then he said he walked back out to the road. And then he said he didn't hear anything else. So he said he walked back over to the steps. I don't know why he walked over to the road.

Loves the steps. Then he turned around and he said, and this is what he said. He goes, so I walked over by those steps. And I turned around and looked back and looking back. And that was it. That's all I remember. I turned around and I looked back and I looked back, looking back, that's it. And they were like, helpful.

Okay. And so they asked him, they were like, well, did you see the girl there? And he said, nope, he didn't see them. And they were like, that's weird. Did you immediately ask how the girl was when we didn't see a girl? That's weird. And he said, no, I didn't see anyone. And then he was like, oh, no, no, wait, I did.

I saw some guy in a black jacket. Because remember, that was his story at the scene. And now he's all of a sudden like, shit. I got to connect that. So he's like, I can't say I didn't see anybody. Now I saw a guy with a black jacket. And they're like, okay. So he was like, okay, yeah, I got to stick to this bullshit story.

So he says, so now he starts getting very detailed, which is always a surefire sign that it's bullshit. Yep. And he was like, you know what? I saw this guy. He was wearing a black jacket. And there was white stripes on the wrist of the jacket. Okay. But he said he couldn't tell who was wearing that jacket now.

He said, so they were like, I thought you said it was a man. And he was like, I don't know, maybe it was the girl wearing that jacket. But you didn't see the girl. And he was like, no, I did see the girl. Because remember, I asked about her at the scene. And they were like, yeah, I know. Yeah, you're tripping yourself up here. That's literally what we're trying to catch you in here.

And he's like, no. But he's like, I don't know. So the police were. I was looking back. Looking back, I was looking back. And I don't know. Cool. So the police were like, okay.

Because he started acting strange, like he was breaking a bit. So they were like, we're just going to keep this going. Keep pushing. And so he goes, I'm trying to think what I did. I walked around the corner. I don't know. I just went out. I was gone.

I don't know what happened. I saw stars. And then everything went black. And I could taste the grass. And that was the last thing I remember. I got hit. I got hit. I know I got hit.

I know I got hit. And they're like, okay. And then so the chief is like, where did you get hit? And he says on my neck, on my shoulder, my back somewhere. I don't know. It all hurts. On my neck, down my back in my shoulder blade. In between my shoulder blade, it hurts.

They took x-rays at the hospital and they can't find anything broken. He sounds inebriated. He certainly does. No, this is also him lying. Because he's terrified. And not knowing how to lie. Yeah. And freaking out because he knows he's fucked.

So he danced around this jacket thing and acted like he clearly knew more about what was going on. But Chief Maytot just kept asking, like basically kept him talking, just knowing he's unraveling. He's going to actually incriminate himself here. So then he tells them that. the last thing he remembers is the cop showing up and pulling him out from beneath the stairs he was hiding under. And he said he, quote, heard a bunch of radios. And then he was pulled from the stairs, thrown into the ambulance, and he said he got to the hospital, was strapped to a gurney, and police officer started asking him questions. And he said, quote, and then investigator John Perretta tells me that I'm

being charged with a assault or something. And then you're telling me I'm being charged with rape. Chief Maytot had not mentioned rape. And no one. else had mentioned rape to him. That was never mentioned. He was never charged with it at first. They did not say this woman was raped. Nothing about it. So he was waiting for them to say that and probably felt like somebody had said that to him because he was like tripping balls at this point. He knew he did it. So he was sitting there being like, well, you're accused me of rape. And he's like, I have not accused you of that. He's like, nobody even said that happened. Literally no one. And he's sitting there telling me, you're telling me, I'm charged with rape. And he's like,

I am not telling you that. So immediately, Chief Maytot's ears, perked up and he just let it ride. So he's like, he's already sold him out. There it is. So he didn't correct him because he was like, I'm going to let you keep going with this. So he insisted, again, he didn't see any girl. And then he corrected himself several times saying he saw girls walking, but not this girl in particular. He then asked if she was going to be all right and said, quote, somebody told me it was really bad. Piece of shit. And at what point did someone tell you it was really bad? No one told you that. You piece of actual garbage. Now he told police he had been staying in, I thought it was called, it's spelled Madrid. Okay. But it's Madrid,

I think they call it. Like locals call it that, which is a town about like 10 miles from there. And he told police he got there that night by hitchhiking because he didn't have a car. He had been drinking at a bar in Winthrop all evening. Correct. Exactly what he told him. Upon more questions, he admitted that he had been in an altercation with a guy at a bar that previous evening because he had accused him of stealing three dollars. Bingo, hitchhiker. but he said he had at least three six-packs that night. Holy shit. Yeah, so we got 18 beers going on.

I never know what amount of beer is a lot, but I'm assuming that 18 beers for one person is a lot of beers. I can have one beer and I'm like, who, I can't even like taste one beer. And I like nurse one forever. Yeah. I don't even remember the last time I've had beer, to be honest. You guys know Elena and I like to crank out that content, honey. but sometimes I'm like done researching and I'm done recording and I'm hungry but the last thing I

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so all you have to do is eat. New on the scene, by the way, hot take here, is their delicious harvest of bakes for those moments when you're looking for homemade fields without any of the work. They're ready to bake veg-pack dishes sizzling with gourmet-level flavors that are big enough to share, but you just won't want to. Avoid the takeout temptation and get Daily Harvest. Go to DailyHarvest.com slash morbid to get up to $40 off your first box. That's Dailyharvest.com slash morbid for up to $40 off your first box. Dailyharvest.com slash morbid. So he just keeps insisting. He never saw a girl. And he'd gotten hit. He had gotten knocked out. But they kept telling him, you know, like that's weird.

you don't have any marks on you. Right. Like we looked. Right. We have x-rays. Like there's no marks on you. He had no explanation for that. He was just like, yeah, I don't know.

He did, however, have a swollen right hand and what it looked like an almost broken finger on that hand. And he was trying to hide it the whole time when Chief May Todd asked to see it. And he said he wouldn't let him see it. What the? Like, dude, we're going to see it eventually. And he was like, fuck you. I'm going to see that.

I'll get a warrant for your damn hand. So he's like, so he's hiding it. And Chief May Todd is like, dude, I already saw it. Like, I literally saw it. Right. And he's like, what is that? How'd you get that? And he's like, you didn't mention that injury.

And he was like, oh, yeah. Like, I probably got it earlier in the night, you know, with my friends. And he goes, oh, yeah. I tore down my friend's door last night. That's probably it. What? What? Like, and he's like, they're like, care to explain?

And he's like, no. What? Okay. So after this, they sent an officer to check that story. about the door. They went to that friend's apartment. No door was damaged. And they were like, no, he did not do that. Can you imagine like your buddy says that he tore down your door and the police arrive? And you're like, nope. No, he did not tear down my door. He's actually not my friend. No, I actually, he's a monster. Thank you though. So in the end of the interview, he said, quote,

I wish that I, you know, if I did it, I would admit to doing it. But I did not do it. So I'm not going to admit to doing it. That's all I can say. And at that point, they're like, do what? Well, and not accusing you of anything. Well, and at that point, May Tot stood up, looked him right in the eye. And he said, Mr. McCarthy, you're being charged with assault and rape. And then he left the room. Amazing. Which I was like, fucking throw the book at him. Like, I would have literally just been like, whatcha, and just throw something out of that as I walked out. Honestly. So he officially told him, he was like, you just gave me everything I needed. Thanks for that. Thank you so much. sir, you are now being charged with assault and rape.

Hang on in this room for a bit. A fucking shit. Jackass. This is where we are going to leave it for part one, because part two I would like to start it with Katie. Unfortunately, this does not have a happy ending. Katie does pass away. I just want to let you guys know that.

But we're going to talk more about her family. I want to talk. He goes to prison. Fuck this guy. We're going to talk about that. I really want to talk about the parole stuff that they keep having to go through. but I want like part two to be like Katie Katie Katie Katie Katie and Katie's family so that's where we're going to leave off on part one that he incriminated himself that they immediately are going to be

charging him with assault and rape and eventually murder yeah and we will pick it up in part two which you are going to get very shortly cool because it's already like done awesome love to hear it so stay tuned and make sure you look at that petition that I'm linking in here. Awesome. Because this guy does end up going to, he gets convicted for this. He did it. And we are also going to go over the medical examiner's report.

I'm going to tell you what he did to her. Okay. If you already aren't convinced enough to sign this and keep this fucker in jail forever, that'll definitely prove it to you. But I'm going to post it so you guys can do it now. I think the family would be like very happy to get a lot of signatures on there. So I'd love to be able to do that for them. But yeah.

Wow. This is a rough one. It like hurt my heart. They all do, but like this one just like they all hit different. They do. This is a really tough one, especially because, oh, it's just brutal. Yeah. But well told. Thank you. You're welcome. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. If I have to tell you not to keep it as weird as Brian, you should not be listening to this show. You got to go turn yourself in or something. Bye. Bye.