Morbid - Tony Costa, The Cape Cod Vampire Part 2

Episode Date: December 21, 2020

We’re all up in your ear meat for the second time this week, and we’ve brought you the conclusion to the tale of Tony Chop Chop. Please whip out a notebook and get ready to write as fast as humanly possible to keep track of all the stories Tony fed to the police. Part two will go over what went down after Tony was apprehended, about 642 stories he used to cover his tracks and ultimately the trial and aftermath while Tony was incarcerated. This guy is a straight up doozy, keeping it weird in the worst possible way.  As always, thank you to our sponsors: Daily Harvest: Go to DAILYHARVEST.com and enter promo code MORBID to get twenty-five dollars off your first box! Thrive Market: Go to Thrive Market.com/MORBID Join today and you’ll get a FREE gift of your choosing, up to $24 dollars in value. Better Help: BetterHELP wants you to start living a happier life TODAY,  get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/Morbid Simplisafe: Right now, our listeners get a FREE home security camera, when you purchase a SimpliSafe system at SIMPLISAFE.com/morbid Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. You are? Yeah, I think. Do you know what this is? I think, can you tell me? It's morbid. Oh! Hello! Welcome back for another installment of Tony Costa's green thumb. Yeah, such a good gardener, loves the color green, never green with envy. There you go. No, all that's false. He's a terrible gardener, and he's a terrible person. and he has a red thumb is what he has. Yes. Yep, you're right. Yeah. But you know, guys, it's the end of the week. It's right before the holiday. So we're trying. We're just crazy. We're trying. I'm looking at my Christmas countdown and it's the end of the day right now and it says, it says six, but I think it's technically

five days till Christmas right now. And then that means like there's only a few more hours of that. So realistically, there's only four days till Christmas and oh my God, I'm fucking panicking. Yeah, that gives me a lot of stress hives happening right now. We were just like, what are we supposed to do for Christmas Eve since like we can't do anything since we can't see any of our family so what do we do together we're all just you know we're all in this together guys everybody feels it I won't sing about it this time I mean I'm here to just give you the best holiday gift I can give you which is the story of this turd pile yeah and I'll have one for you next week even before Christmas so and it's a crazy one gonna be gnarly it's the holiday season oh you did a good job I had to do it you said to do it

You're so cute. The little smirk was great. I had to do it. So yeah, so we did part two of the Tony Costa case. Tony Chop Chop, the vampire of Cape Cod, the Cape Cod, Casanova, if you will. I forgot that they called him that. Yeah, they sure did. I like Tony Chop Chop, though.

That's my favorite. That one's really good. Because it could be like, is he a murderer? Is he a butcher? He need to hurry up. Yeah, or like, is he a butcher? Yeah. Go to Tony Chop Chop Chop's place.

He has the best prime rib they got. You just don't know what you're going. getting with Tony. He also gets another nickname in prison later, and we'll talk about that when we get to it. But just to give you like a quick little recap of just where we left off, so you're not like, wait. Like, where are we? They have just discovered the bodies of Patricia Walsh, Marianne Wysaki, sorry, I almost said Walsh, for some word reason, and that is not her name. There's Walsh. Marianne Wysaki, Patricia Walsh, Sidney Monzen, and Susan Perry. They were all like, y'alli. young girls. All of them had like similar looks. They were all like very pretty, you know, just like 60s chicks. Yeah. And those ones were like quintessential in the garden. And we also have another body like

outside of the garden. Well, those are all found technically within like the same area of the garden. Uh-huh. So Susan Perry was found a little outside of the garden. Uh-huh. She had been there for a long time. We also found Patricia Walsh and Marianne Wysaki in the garden, next to like in graves next to each other. And then underneath the two of them, we found Sydney Monson, who had been there even longer. So we have four dead bodies here. Whoa. We have pretty much confirmed through dental records that the two freshest ones were Marianne Wysaki and Patricia Walsh. They had gone missing in Provincetown. They lived in Providence, Rhode Island. They were just there on like a quick little getaway. They were staying at a rooming house in Peatown.

And they came across Tony Costa. And they were never seen again. Yep. So they were found, unfortunately dead. They were all four of them were found dismembered in at least like eight pieces each. Susan Perry, I believe her head was in like a plastic bag. It was brutal. And they all had like a lot of like crazy like cutting up marks to their legs.

Which we'll talk about that too because we're going to talk about the autopsy reports. They all had a very similar, weird, there was something there. There was a pathology there that this person who killed them definitely was going through. So when we left, they had just picked up Tony for felony automobile theft because he had actually stolen Marianne and Patricia's VW bug. Yes. And he told about a hundred different stories about it. And that doesn't stop, by the way.

I made sure to keep all the different stories he tells, just so you can see how many times he changed his story. It's truly outrageous. I've never seen this in another case. No, even in that last part, I was like, Jesus Christ, there was at least five story changes. And he seems to have like no qualms about it. Like, he's just like, I didn't tell the truth. Let me tell you what really happened. Because I also think that he gets some kind of satisfaction, like watching them trying to put together in the pieces. Yeah, because at one point, one of the officers is like, wait, so. So did they go to Canada or did they go to L.A.? And he gets pissed.

And he's like, what? And he's like, well, you've told me about 100 different stories. I'm just trying to remember which one is the right one. Right. So I think he does like that he's confusing the hell out of them and marring the investigation with his bullshit. Like a jerk. He's a jerk. He was a jerk. Ha ha.

Spoiler alert. So last we had, he was arrested. They were charging him with murder because they were going to keep him. So now they're going to talk to a bunch of people around him. they need to get more than the circumstantial evidence that they have right now. They have evidence, but it's nothing concrete. They need to tie him directly to these bodies. So we had mentioned in the first part.

He seems to be around a lot of women who disappear randomly. One of them was named Christine Gallant, who was found in her bathtub in New York. Supposedly she OD'd. He was in a relationship with her. Supposedly, he, like, deeply loved her, was, like, obsessed with her. Is she the, she, he referenced her in the letter that they found torn up. Yes. In the wastebasket of the boarding house or whatever.

Exactly. See, you're on it. I know. Yeah, he references her, Avis, his ex-wife, who at the time, I think, was like 20 years old, but they married when she was 14 in case you don't remember from the first part. Avis had said, like, when we were not together, because their marriage kind of started falling apart pretty quick. And when they were having troubles, they would each step up. out on each other. They would bring like lovers into the home. And one of these, one of the ones that

he was going with was Christine Galant. And she was like, he loved her. Like he confided in me that he loved her. Yeah. That's interesting. It's a lot. It's definitely a lot. But so they spoke to a friend of his who said they were introduced to Tony through Christine Galant. So they wanted to like get more information about all this. Now they were like, okay, like that's strange. That's, Like there's more connections here with Christine involved in some of his friends and how he got to know these people. So they had also found a newspaper clipping about her death in his wallet. Oh, okay. When they booked him.

Bizarre. So they were like, that's weird. It could be looked at as like he obviously loved her. Sure, that's like traumatic. If you lose someone you love like that, maybe you, I don't know why you would keep the newspaper clipping about her OD death. But like if anything, you would keep like the obituary. Exactly. I like the little memorial card, not like, this is how she was killed.

I mean, that would be me. I definitely wouldn't keep the sad, probably at the time sensationalistic newspaper article about somebody dying in a bathtub. Unless I did it. Unless you did it and you like being able to look at it. I'm just saying. So here we are. And Patricia Walsh and Marianne Wysaki, they're identified by dental records.

So we know that the two freshest ones found side by side are, Patricia and Marianne, who we have been missing since Providence. The two, you know, more decomposed ones, the ones found under Patricia and Marianne and the one found a little bit further away. Those ones, even though we know now that they were Sydney, Monzen, and Susan Perry, they weren't identified yet. We had no idea who those were. That makes sense. So the families of the, in the, the girls actually had on and off boyfriends, Marianne and Patricia. Yeah, you had said that. Yeah. So they were like they were talking with police the entire time. The families and the boyfriends. They were doing like suspects at one point. Absolutely. And they were doing their own like investigations. Like the

boyfriends sounded like they were like really like it was really sad. And actually Patricia lived with her boyfriend Bob and she grew up at a very Catholic household. And so her parents didn't know that they were living together. They found out after all of this. And it was like, what a way to what a time to find out. Seriously. And so... And at that point, it's like just... Yeah, it's like just let it go. Like, it's honestly. And he had actually got her name tattooed on him only weeks earlier. Stop. And when he talked to police, they discovered that through the timeline, they figured out that the timeline was such that he was being tattooed with his surprise for Patricia. No.

While she was being murdered. No. Yeah. Okay. It's so crazy because people do say that's like a bad omen to get your significant another's name. tattooed on you, that takes it to a whole other level. Like, that gave me chills. And just to be clear, I'm not saying it's a bad omen. I'm just like, it's been said. It's just like one of those things that's said all the time. But like, wow. Yeah. That's heartbreaking. I know. That like really like broke my heart. So Tony was arraigned and the judge ordered 35 days in Bridgewater. So the hospital. Yeah. Yeah. We all know about Bridgewater, Massachusetts. Hell yeah. He needed to be psychologically evaluated, obviously,

Because these crimes, you're looking at them and you're like dismemberment, all this, like, they're heinous. Something has to be going on here. And they were beaten, like, horrifically. Exactly. There's a lot of weird little pathologies here. And the bodies were autopsied at this time. When Dr. George Katzis and Dr. Daniel Hybert autopsied the girl who was buried beneath Marianne and Patricia, they discovered this. They said she was 19 years old, very badly decomposed, obviously. She was dismembered into four pieces. Her face was badly lacerated.

Ooh. Yeah. And she had the same cut down the chest with the skin flayed back onto the shoulders. I forgot about that part. Yeah. They all had that. And the doctors ended up calling it the sweater effect. Oh, I don't like that. Her kidneys were not found. Her internal genitalia had been eviscerated. I'm sorry, what? And they couldn't determine exact cause of death because of the deterioration of the remains. but it was said that it was death by traumatic injuries. Wow.

Yeah. And so they sent her hand to the state police to take prints as well. And they had done that with the other unidentified body. They had found like a couple of weeks earlier. That was the one that was a little bit away. Now Patricia's autopsy showed swelling and bruising on her forehead and left cheek. They found a small gunshot wound to the back of her neck. Oh, wow.

The bullet had entered the back of the neck and made its way into her mouth and into her left cheek. The same chest flaying and the eighth rib was broken. There was three deep and violent stab wounds on her chest as well. Another stab to the left of her spine and it had severed a major artery that was close to her heart. Her liver was stabbed twice. And across the buttocks and legs were a ton, like you were saying, a ton of deep, like vicious slices. Weird. Like lacerations. It's also really odd to shoot somebody. and then stab them. Yeah.

That's overkill. Well, we'll find out somewhat about what happened. And that'll come clear. I have a theory. It's not okay. But so these, what's weird is these lacerations to the legs seem to have been done post-mortem. Because there was no hemorrhaging around it, nothing.

So this is, it's strange. Yeah, it's just very weird. She had no injury to her genitalia. Okay. So there's that. Now, Marianne had been. bruising her injury to the face, or excuse me, she had no bruising her injury to the face, except for a broken nose.

Okay. There was a bullet wound against the occipital bone to the back of her head and a second bullet wound behind her left ear. Wow. She survived the first gunshot, they figured out. And they said, this gunshot was done while she was running away from her killer. That was my theory. And the second shot was done while she was on her knees.

Execution? Yep, because the bullet appeared to be done at close range and while the killer was clearly standing above her head. Oh, wow. She had the same chest flaying, same sweater effect. Right side of the chest had five deep stab wounds, a puncture hole beneath her left shoulder blade and a stab to her liver as well. A puncture hole is different than being stabbed? Yeah, it wasn't like a stab. It was like a puncture.

Maybe like a screwdriver or something. Yeah, like just something else. Weird. Yeah, it's very strange. Um, this is even stranger. Oh. He had cut an outline of skin from her pelvis that made it look like underwear. So she, he had removed the skin on her pelvis in a to look like underwear.

Wow. Yeah. This is bizarre. And you would almost, I don't know if this is just me being like weird or like misinformed, but you almost would think that he had some kind of background and like, like, like, not surgery, but... Well, you would think that, because you're like, wow, you're doing so much like dissection and, like, reach it.

But he was bad at it. Oh, okay. In fact, the doctor said this is someone with no medical background. Oh, okay. Like, there was points where when he dismembered, he, like, cut through vertebrae. So, like, he would cut, like, into the middle of a vertebrae, like, which is not, like, why would you do that? That's really difficult, I was a really weird thing, and it's sloppy as fuck.

Yeah. So, yeah, he was, but I guess this was done pretty, I mean, that takes time. Yeah, that's weird. Like he had to have sat there and like flayed the skin in that shape. He really liked to do that. Or at least you could assume maybe they're a butcher. Like what? Yeah.

And he was none of that. Yeah, he's a handyman. Yeah. He's a handyman hippie. And her legs were slashed like the other ones as well. And she was, they discovered she was stabbed while in the process of dying. Oh. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. So both Patricia and Marianne showed signs of having been raped post-mortem. Oh. Necrophilia. Mm-hmm. Yep. We'll get back to that later.

Now remember, we just found out that they died from, or at least were shot with a gun before they died. Right. Well, do you remember in the first part when Tony first said his 100 stories about how he became into possession of the VW van or the bug? He mentioned in one version that he, a guy named Steve and a guy named Timmy, went out into the forest, weed, went out into the forest and found the car. Yes.

The police talked to them. They heard the weird stories about Tony being a creep. And Timmy Atkins mentioned that Tony had wanted to sell him a gun at some point. Yes. Yep. It was Tim who said, or excuse me, it was Steve who said not to buy it because he feared that it was hot or, you know, tied to some crime or something. So he was like, yeah, don't do it. Always trust your gut.

Weed. Well. So they bring Atkins back in to ask him more about this 22 gun that Tony wanted to sell him. same story he said he didn't buy it but then it came up during this conversation that Atkins so Timmy Atkins had gone out of he had gone out of town to Connecticut last year with an 18 year old girl named Susan Perry what yeah does that sound familiar uh-huh it does now Susan Perry in case you're like which one is she uh her mother is the one that she had reported her missing as soon as that identified girl was found initially in toady's garden but her mom was the one

where it was like six months later. She was the one that was like, well, hippies are weird. So I didn't report her missing. Right. She was the one that we were like, yeah, mom. Okay. But they asked if Tony had come. They were like, okay, so you went out of town to Connecticut with this girl that was missing.

And again, at this point, they don't know if that's her or not that an unidentified body. But they're like, weird. Like, because she's missing. Now you're connected to her. And then they were like, wait a second. Because at this point, they don't know Tony has anything to do with her. Yeah. So they were like, wait a second.

Did Tony come in contact with her? And he says, actually, yeah, I heard she had gone to Dedham around Labor Day to stay with Tony. I was going to say, because they like dated or something, right? Yes. And he said no one had seen her after that. So the police were stunned. They were like, oh shit. Like thanks for that golden nugget.

Why is Tony connected to all of these missing girls? So they spoke to another friend of Tony's and he also confirmed. that he had known Susan Perry was living with Tony and Dedham around Labor Day. And then he said he saw Tony one day. And I think he said he saw him like on like the common or something, which is just funny to hear all these places that were like, yeah, I know there. I know. It's also really funny for me because I worked in all these places. I know.

Like I used to walk through the common to go to work. I literally work in Boston right now. And I also used to work in Dedum. And it's just so weird. It is. And so he said he saw Tony one day and he's like, oh, where's Susan? Like I haven't seen her in a little while. And he told him she had a bad LSD trip and then ran off to Mexico.

Why are all these people going to Mexico and Canada and L.A. after they chill with you? So she just had a bad LSD trip and then was like, got to leave the country. I mean, that shit will change you, I guess. So now people, after all this, now that these bodies are found and it's all over everywhere. I mean, the news is going crazy. So now people start calling from all over New England saying my teen girl went missing and was in P-Town. or Truro around the area. Uh-oh.

But the police are obviously focused now on Susan Perry and Sydney Monson because there's connections here. Yeah. So tourists are trying to see the grave sites now, like it's, which like I get it. But like, it makes it hard to conduct an investigation. In the middle of an investigation, hold off. It's not time yet. You're being rude.

Hold off. Like, too soon. Some say strike while the iron is hot. That doesn't apply to murder scenes. Yeah, you just let the investigators do their thing. Let some wounds heal a little bit. Give it a year. You know what?

Now, in 2020, the year of our Lord, it's fine to go now. Totally. Like, we're far past it. It's okay. Like, next time I go to Peatown, I'm stopping in Toronto. Yeah, we're going to find that. Hell yeah. It's going to make a road trip.

Don't worry about it. But, yeah, so the tourists are really starting to get in on this madness. And so much that the chief of Truro police said the press is bad, but the tourists are much worse. I believe that. Yeah. They were coming from and people were coming from everywhere too to try to like help the investigation. You're like no. You're not helping. And of course like Truro and Ptown and all these places are very tight-knit communities. Oh yeah. Small towns. So people are also I mean they probably are helping a little bit in some ways because people are trying to be like I know this person and I saw this person with this person trying to make connections for them. Yes, of course. Now finally they

identified using those fingerprints. It took forever. They were waiting on like pins and needles. I believe it. They finally identified the other two decomposed bodies as Sydney Monzen and Susan Perry. So now shit is like kicking into high gear. They're like, wow, we have four identified bodies in like a very small stretch of land. And they are all connected to Tony, but they can't connect him with like solid shit yet. Yeah. Which is so frustrating. Right. So March 31st, 1969, Tony had. And he had, his first psychological evaluation at Bridgewater State Hospital. How'd that go? This is what his report said.

Okie-doke. During his current period of observation, patient has been cooperative and oriented in all spheres. He appears to be of average intelligence. That probably goes up his ass sideways. Oh, yeah. You know he's like, fuck you in that report. God damn it. With a full-scale IQ of 121, the EEG performed here was evaluated as normal.

He appeared apprehensive but exhibited very little anxiety. his thought content showed no overvalued ideas, and he did not evidence severe depression or suicidal material. His memory for recent and remote events showed no impairment. It is the opinion of the staff that patient shows no sign of an overt psychosis. Is certainly in contact with his surroundings, knows the nature and objects of his charades, and the possible consequence, and appears to be able to assist counsel in his own defense. All right. So basically they're like, he's fine. He's fit to stand trial. He's just a dick. And it's like, oh, that's not good for him. That's not good for him at all. Like you need to be, you need to be labeled insane in this, in this situation. You really need it. Because you're going away for a long time and, yeah, would help you to go away somewhere else. It is not looking good for him. So they have that now. Well, on May 31st, they start doing polygraph exams. Now these polygraph exams, last, they like do a ton of them with this guy named Charlie Zimmerman.

Sure. He's like very well known. He polygraphed all the Boston Strangler suspects. Oh, cool. So he's like, you know, a big shot. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So they started doing this with him.

And it was Charlie Zimmerman who actually really got a ton of shit out of Tony. Like kind of built some kind of trust with him. He really did. So immediately Tony said, like as soon as he came in and was like, all right, we're going to start this. They start doing their baseline thing. Immediately Tony's like. I have not been telling the truth up until this point.

No way. And it's like he saw the machine and was like, I'm not going to get past that. And so he was like, now, you know, I'm going to tell the truth because I want these tests to be accurate. Oh, yeah. And Charlie Zimmerman's like very nice of you. Awesome. Thanks for all wasting my time. As soon as they start, the question is like, do you know who killed these girls?

And he's like, yes, I do. Oh. And they're like, oh, okay. And then he was like, it was just one person. Uh-huh. And they were like, is that one person you, Tony? And he's like, no. What the hell?

He said, it's Corey DeBro, of course. Uh-huh. And they were like, okay. Like, who's that? Now, he gave no motive, just that Corey is a friend of his, told him he did it. And then he was like, what's crazy is like, he just, he used my gun. So that's weird. What?

And they were like, did he tell you like what happened? And he was like, no. And they were like, so what did he tell you? And he was like, he just told me he killed all of them. And like, you didn't ask any further questions, Tony? And they were like, well, why did he use your gun? And he was like, he just had it. Why, though?

And they were like, why? And he was like, no further questions. I don't know. Why did you take it back after he killed people with it? Yeah. So then they keep going and, weirdly enough, he failed that polygraphic sense. That is, you know, just the craziest thing I've heard all day. So Charlie Zimmerman at this point, and he's like very good psychologically with him because he'll be like,

listen, you need to trust me, Tony. You need to have trust in your, like the person administering this test. Yeah. And if you don't trust me, like, I can't trust you and blah, blah, blah, like, the whole thing's going to get fucked up. And he keeps pressing him. And he keeps like using the machine being like, listen, Tony, look right here. It's spiked. Right. That is telling me not, it's not giving me details, but it's telling me you know more than you're telling me. Right. And you. You need, like, fess up or this test isn't going to work. And you said you wanted an accurate test. And every time he does that, he gets a little more out of him.

Like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I really suggest reading in his garden by Leo de Mory because he goes in, like, vivid detail. I mean, it's like an 800 page book or something. Oh, wow. He goes in such detail about all of these polygraph exams. And the way that he gets that shit out of him is truly, it'll have you like sucked in. Mind blown. It really is. he failed that one so he ends up leaving and saying you know Tony I can't complete the test today like

you didn't give me the accurate answer so we'll be back I love that he's treating him like a straight-up child he literally he's like you didn't do your job so now we have to come back no dessert for you tonight we'll try again tomorrow just saying so June 7th he has the second polygraph exam okay so now he's like now I want to tell the truth and he was like but I thought you told me the truth last time and he's like well I didn't because you showed me I didn't he's like yes he's like I know that you know that we know that wasn't the truth exactly so he's like here's what happened he's like I'm still sticking with Corey did it and they were like who the fuck is Corey like but they're like okay do you think he's like

Corey didn't make it seem like well you do know but I was like is he trying to make it seem like he's somebody else like he has like multiple personalities kind of okay that comes up okay so Corey told him he was like Corey just randomly told me like whoops I killed a bunch of women can you help me no Because I need to get rid of him. No. And Tony was like, okay. Sure, I'll accomplish you with murder.

Yeah. So he was like, I will just accomplish you with murder. Thank you very much. But so Tony's like, okay, yeah, sure. And he's like, where did this, where did this occur? And he's like, you're in your garden, actually, like in your marijuana patch. And he was like. His garden?

And he was like, all right, all right. So he said he pulled up to his garden and there was just a pile of dismembered bodies. He said he literally saw, he goes, it was a pile of dismembered bodies. Stop. And he just pulled up and Tony's just in there like, eh? Like all of them at once just chill in there? Like, can you just picture this dude being like, what? No.

Like, oh, we gotta fix this. No. Like, no. Like, get out of my face. He didn't just chop up four dead bodies and then pile them all up on each other and be like, well, and why were, I'd be like, cool. So why were they like different levels of decomposed, Tony? Exactly. And that's why they're like, okay, Tony.

No. And he was like, so what did you? you do when you pulled up and saw this dismembered, this pile of dismembered bodies? And he was like, I threw up. It was terrible. And he was like, I don't know if you know this about me, but and I'm sure the test will show. I hate blood. It freaks me out. I get sick. That's a lie. And it was like, diding. And it just like spiked immediately. And he was like, well, the test is selling me that no, that is not true. He's like, well, that's wrong. Mori like runs in the room. He's like, yeah, you're also not the father. He was like, and that's a lot. So now everyone is

like, okay, who's Corey? And why would you not say this three months ago when you were arrested, you dumbass? Yeah, like what? You were arrested for four murders. Why didn't you go, oh, hey, I didn't do it. Corey did. Like, why didn't you just pull that card out right away? And then we could have gone and investigated Corey. And you would not be here in Bridgewater State Hospital. Like, are you dumb? Or is Corey in your mind? Well, and he was like, yeah, I didn't think they had that much on us. So I figured I could get both of us out of it. Okay. So this is him being like, I'm smarter than you, I think. So I thought I could like outsmart all of you and get us both out of it. I'm of average intelligence. I'm way smarter. I'm so much smarter than you. So then there's a third polygraph exam that they have to give him.

And this is the one where they start off the same way. He's like, Corey did it, you know, dot to dot. And he was like, do you know how he did it? And he's like, nope, don't know how I did it. I just showed up. They were dead. whoops. And then this one, though, he goes, okay, I have to admit something. So we've got to tell the remember. This is the third one. Now we're on story number three has come up. Third time is the charm. So story number three is he's like, all right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just showed up and all that they were all there. And, you know, I didn't know what to do. So they were like, and he says, so they're like, okay, so did you help him in any way? Like, why did he call you there? Like, did you just bury them? You know, you said they were already cut up. And he's like, so I cut them up with him.

Okay. And so now we're getting somewhere. Now he's in, again, Charlie Zimmerman is like, okay. And he keeps saying, he keeps saying, Tony, you were more involved. And he keeps telling him like, this test is showing me that you were more involved. So just tell me how involved you were. Like he keeps telling him, like, just answer the test is telling me. Just he keeps becoming more involved. And he keeps admitting. Admitting more and more. And so they're like, cool, cool. So now they have Dr. Harold Williams, a psychiatrist. come in. He studied medicine at Harvard Medical School and he had done a residency in psychiatry at Mass General Hospital in Boston. And they were like, you need to take a crack at Tony now. Like, let's see what you think. Right. So he said he definitely had like a superiority thing. He thinks he was better and smarter than all those around him, very superior. He thought he avoided human emotions by keeping himself kind of above human contact. Oh. He was only average intelligence again. He agreed. He was like he thinks he's really smart. He's really not. Right. And he was like he uses, you know, ways of speaking that would make him appear intelligent, but they're really just ways to

sound smarter. He probably comes off that way. He probably like picked it up from other smart people. Exactly. It's just parroting other people. Right. And he said, even though he comes off as very superior, he actually has an inferiority complex. I think a lot of people that have, I think superior, superiority. How do you say that? Superiority. It's hard to say that kind of complex. And an infuriity. Inferiority. Jesus Christ. I think they both go hand in hand. I think so too. It's like you have to have one to have the other.

Yeah. And he said this is why he married a 14 year old as a grown-ass adult to make sure that she was always below him and he was always above her. Like that was his way of making sure he's superior. And these girls are all of these girls are younger than him. Exactly. And he's very into teen girls because. they stroke his ego and make him feel more superior. Yes. He had trained Avis, his ex-wife, to do things she wasn't comfortable with sexually. We talked about that in the first episode. Right.

He used to put a bag over her head and suffocate her until she was unconscious or give her tranks and stuff and like sedatives to put her out so that he could have sex with her when she was unconscious because that's what he liked. Yeah, that's really, if that's your thing, that might be an issue. Exactly. So he saw this as practice. He basically saw this whole thing as practicing for the real thing. Right.

He was getting more and more thrills out of this and he was like, now I can do it for real. He said the Corey thing was basically he felt it was like a Jekyll and Hyde situation. Yeah. So he said, quote, this man suffers from a severe sociopathic personality disturbance. He is a modern day. Marquis de Sade. I didn't know if I said that right. So I found the pronunciation.

for you guys and I was just like just like hold that up just hold it up marquis de sad so yeah he said he's a modern day marquis de sad I thought it was to say maybe pronunciation dot com is wrong well it's like accent thing marki de sad he is in my opinion a sexually dangerous man and is capable of committing murder you don't say brother so he was like ding dong now in case you don't know who marky de sad is it's an 18th French nobleman best known for his erotic works, which combined philosophical discourse with pornography, depicting sexual fantasies with an emphasis on violence, suffering, criminality, and blasphemy against Christianity. Great.

He gained notoriety for putting these fantasies into practice with both consenting and non-consenting people. See, the non-consenting is where it gets weird. No good. That's no good. Nope. Now, as, like, the, you know, like, the... Just a quick aside, as he was trying to convince Charlie Zimmerman that he was so shocked coming

upon the scene of dead bodies, he said, quote, it's not every day I go out into the woods and find something like that right in front of me. It's not part of my metabolism, my makeup. My metabolism. It's not part of the chemical process in your body cells that aids in converting food to energy. No, it's not. It's not part of that. That's not part of my metabolism. I'm shocked. I was just like, there you go. There's a perfect example of I say big words.

I say things that sound eloquent. I don't know what they mean. It's like a perfect way to just like, there's the evidence. It's not part of my metabolism. It's not part of his metabolism to come into the woods and find a pile of dead, dismembered bodies. It's not part of most people's or anyone's metabolism for that matter. I mean, yeah.

Like, why wouldn't you just say chemical makeup? Because he's dumb. Like, even that like doesn't take a lot to say. Well, he's, you know, average intelligence, I suppose. He's like, it's not part of my sleep pattern to do that. It's not part of the calories that I eat daily. So he kept acting, like, through this whole thing, he's saying, like, he had respect for these girls. And he was just helping out by burying them because he didn't want them to just be left out like that.

And, like, he just wanted to, you know, get them out of sight, for goodness sake. They can't just be left out there. Well, it's like, did you think that he was going to leave them? out there? No. And you listen to this and you're like, you dick, because he's sitting there like, I had great respect for them. How dare you? Suggest anything else. You're expecting me to believe that, what's the other guy's name? George. No, this is Corey. Cory, I don't know why I said. George, George, whatever. You're expecting me to believe that this guy killed all these girls and just left them in a pile while he went to grab you and didn't think anyone was going to stumble across that pile

of dead bodies? No. And you know what? He definitely. thinks that because his next story gets even crazy. I'm so excited. So the next story Zimmerman got out of him was all four of them, Marianne, Patricia, Corey, and he went out to his garden together, all alive, to get heroin, like a shipment of heroin that had been left there and they had been waiting for it. And he said when they got out there into the woods at 11 p.m., Patricia was so psyched about this heroin. and she wanted some right away because, you know, she had done it many times before. Oh, yeah, this, like, girl that tutors Catholic school students for sure. Exactly.

And Marion was nervous because she had never had heroin, but she was like, oh, boy, got to try that heroin. So she was like, I want to do it now. And it's, like, what? That doesn't make any sense. So, and apparently Corey, according to Tony, Corey is just this, like, drug addled mess. So Corey was like, yes, let's do it together. Like, is this the Ozarks? What is happening? It is something scary. I can tell you that. Well, so all three of them are like, I know this is a shipment of heroin that we're all psych to have and we're going to sell it and we're going to make a lot of money. But like, I want to do it. Which, no. That doesn't make sense. That doesn't make any sense. You get in a lot of trouble, I feel.

So Tony, of course, said like, guys, I don't want to. We can't. We can't do it, guys. We mustn't. We mustn't. We have to get back. No, for curfew. I cannot. So he said he didn't want to. So he was walking back to the car. By himself. You know what, if Tony is one thing, if we've learned something about Tony, it's that he is straight edge. He is not doing drugs. He's not doing anything like that. Straight edge. Just kidding. He has exes on his hands.

Tony's entire defense relies on him being like the heaviest drug user of all time. So good try. Now he said as he's walking back to the car, oh no, I heard a gunshot. Uh-oh. Like, whoa. And he said this car was only like, a little ways away down the road. Not a long walk away.

Now, then they get this whole tale from him about how he ran back after he heard the gunshot. Horroly. He ran up upon Patricia shot on the ground, face down on the ground. Oh, no. And he said she was definitely dead because, you know, he has, he's a medical examiner, so that's good. And Marianne and Corey were just off somewhere. And he was like, where did they go? So he finds Corey in the woods.

shooting Marianne. Wow. And he said it was over an argument that occurred over heroin. Within the five minutes that Tony was walking back to the car, they had gotten in such a heated argument over heroin that Marianne had never done before, that he ended up shooting both of them. That makes perfect sense. It makes a lot of sense, right?

I'm buying it. Then he said, Corey just started wildly stabbing Marion. And he was shocked. Yeah. He was shocked. I can see how, like, he's trying to make it seem like he was watching this in his head. Oh yeah. He's he is sitting there being like I was disgusted. I was shocked. I was frozen in terror. Yeah. Well, and I feel like he's trying to make it seem like later it's going to come out that he is Corey and it's like, oh, I'm crazy. And I was watching this happen. Yeah. Tony's watching it. Yeah. But whatever's occurring in front of me isn't my problem. Right. Somebody else. Totally. Exactly. So here's where it gets even better because he's like, oh my God. He's. He's, stabbing Marianne, what's happening? So he goes, I just punched him. Oh my God. I punched

Corey because I'm a hero. While he has a gun and a knife, he's literally, like, you can just seem me like, don't call me a hero. I did what anyone would do. Oh my God. That's exactly what he would say. Like, I did what any decent human being would do. I punched him. And he said, and then this is this part, well, I then took his knife and threw it to the side, which is, that's funny that that will put your fingerprints on the knife and that will account for any fingerprints on the knife. Good job. I mean, there's your intelligence. Good job. All right.

He then said he carried Marianne over to Pat while Corey was like recovering from being punched. Okay. Because he was just so concerned. And then he was like, you know, and then I did help him cut them up after. But I had such great respect for those girls. Well, and they were like, wait. So you punched Corey in the face because you were so like scared of him and like horrified by what he did. And then you helped him cut them up.

And he was like, you know, that's just. just that's who I am. I'll just help people. I'm a giver. Okay, Tony. Okay, Tony chop chop. That's fine. So they're like, okay, what happened next? And he's like, well, you know, he didn't say he, so he said, I helped him chop him up. And then he said, I cut up Marianne and Corey cut up Pat. Uh-huh. So now he's, he's getting a little more specific here. It's starting to come down to more details. But they have to pull this out so slowly. Like over like days, I bet. Now Sydney and Susan, And those two, he said he didn't know anything about their deaths. He didn't know anything about them.

He's only confessing to being aware and present for Marian and Patricia's at this point. They were just in the pile that he left, that Corey left there. Oh, yeah. Well, now, and that's the other thing. So they were like, oh, yeah, the pile. Because they said like, so that whole thing about him just calling you and telling you and you showing up is that. And he was like, yeah, that's rubbish. That's not real.

So he's saying that Sydney and Susan were at the heroin thing too? No, he's saying Sydney and Susan weren't anywhere. He doesn't know anything about them. Oh, okay. So now he's totally retracted that. Jesus Christ, if I was one of these investigators, I'd need to get a notebook. Because now at the heroin thing, it was just him and Corey and Marianne and Patricia. What the fuck?

He's focusing on the Providence Girls. He's not, and now they were like, all right, so what about Sydney and Susan? And he's like, oh, I don't know anything about them. And they were like, do you know them? And he was like, kind of. Like, I've been around them and stuff, but I don't know anything about him. Kind of. I just like lived with Susan for a minute.

Well, and then he was like, oh, you know what? but Corey did tell me that he killed them too. Yeah. And he was like, oh, okay. So you do know something about them. And he's like, not really. I don't know anything. He did tell me that two other guys named Eddie and Ronalds were also involved in that.

So now he's just implicating anybody he's ever known, I think. He's like, do you know, uh, fucking Ronald Weasley? Like, you know, that guy? That crazy ginger, he was not totally in on this. There was this other guy named Neville there too. And they're just like, what is happening? Like, come on. So they're like, okay.

see again Tony and so they leave for the next one they come back and he's like I've changed it again you know whoever was giving this like polygraph test the guy that was telling him he was waking up for work every morning being like god damn it me I need to call in today I gotta talk to Tony again imagine that job so the last ones he's been saying that this all occurred on Sunday on like a Sunday night okay well now he's like no it's not Sunday night it was actually Saturday during the day that this happened. And then after the shooting and stabbing and all that, they left Marianne and Patricia where they lie in the bushes. So they shot them in the middle of the day and stabbed them and left them there. And then he said, we left them there and we came back Saturday night because

that's when the bodies would be cooler and easier to dismember because it would be less blood. What? And they were like, okay. So then again, police are looking into their backgrounds again because they're like, now we got to double check and make sure there's no drug use in their backgrounds to like really get this story gone. Right. And they had done that. No drug use. Like none. Not one. Again, I say, I think it was Patricia that had like smoke weed before and that's it. Yeah. Now, then they found Corey. Oh, so Corey exists. Okay. He's a real person. I know. I did not think he was real. Honestly, reading this, I didn't know if he was real either. He's a real person. Okay. Now, what did he When they told him, well, when they told him, you know, this is what's being said, he was

pissed. And he was definitely like he was a petty thief. He used drugs as well, like they all did the 60s. Yeah. And, but he didn't have a violent past or anything like close to this on his record. Also, he was only 17 years old. Oh my God. So he's going to try to get this 17 year old put away from murder?

Exactly. And this guy's in his like mid to late 20s. Right. For quadruple murder. Yeah. Now, police knew he didn't. didn't do it. They knew that Corey did not do this. And Corey said he didn't even, he was like, I didn't even know Marianne or Patricia. Like, I didn't even know who they are. Yeah. The only time I've

heard of them is in the news. Right. And then he's like, I didn't even see Tony that weekend. I haven't seen him for a while. Do you know? How did they know each other? Do you know? They had just met, I guess, somewhere because Tony liked to hang out with teenagers. So he would end up. And he was like, we like, we like smoked weed a few times and like did some drugs. Like we didn't. So they were like acquaintances. Yeah. And he was like, we didn't really like, you know, form a bond. He was just around. Like he was like, we hung out for a little while, but he's like, he said something about how they stopped hanging out for a while because actually Corey's parents were like, it's weird that this older guy wants staying out with you. Yeah. And he was like, he just was kind of like not in hanging out.

I think he had a girlfriend at the time and he said he was spending more time with her. So he kind of like pulled away, 17 year old things. Lots of reasons. And when they asked him to take a polygraph at first, he was like, I'll get back to you on that. Well, because that's a scary thing. It is scary. It is scary. But he ends up taking one.

So like that little wavering in the beginning was probably just a 17-year-old being like, I do drugs. Are you going to get me in trouble? Yeah, exactly. He's like, it's the 60s. So July 12th, 1969, he confesses, Tony does, to Charlie Zimmerman that he in fact used the knife on Marianne. While she was a lot.

So now he's saying he killed Marianne. Okay. He said she was gurgling after Corey shot her. So everything up until that point he's keeping. And he's going to be a hero. Exactly. He stabbed her to take her out of her misery. Oh, I knew it.

Yep. He said, Corey, he said, so I stabbed her once. It was under her breastbone. And he says, I just needed that gurgling to stop and it stopped. Like, I was so happy to hear it stop because I just couldn't watch her suffer. And then he said, suddenly Corey just went bonkers and started stabbing her all over. Because if we remember, Marion had several stab wounds. Yes.

So he says that was all, that was Corey. And he also says in the same interview, he was like, and I have something else to tell you. And they were like, what? And he said, I slept with Patricia the day before. See, now you're just trying to like brag. You're accounting for that semen that they found. That's what you're doing. Oh, I forgot about that. And the way he described it, and I'm just like, wow, this guy. He described that night with Patricia as a groovy night. Stop. I just had to, like that, like a groovy night. I wish groovy was like still a used adjective. Let's just, let's bring it back. Bring back Groovy 2021.

Yes. What was my 2020 strategy was, like, tell them off 2020 or something like that? Oh, what was it? I know. Call them out 2020. That's what. Now it's Bring Back Groovy 2021. Yes.

And you know what? It belongs in 2021. It better be in Ruby fucking year. So now he's accounting for the fingerprints on the murder weapon. Yes. And the semen. The semen that they found. So he's covering his tracks.

Using his wiles here. So now he has another story to tell. Oh, my God. I don't know if I can take another one. Now he's bringing up Susan Perry again. Okay. And he says Susan Perry died of an OD of heroin at Corey's house. They're like, that's really weird because we didn't find any needle marks on her arm.

Nope. And then he says Corey's mom actually came home and found her the bathroom like a mess because Corey had dismembered this girl in the bathtub. Yeah, and the mom didn't record that to police. violently dismembered. So he says, Corey's mom knows. And the interviews were like, yeah. And I guess Charlie Zimmerman said he immediately thought that this was something that might have actually happened and that it was Tony who did that and that his mom might know. You know, I think his mom knew a little more than she said. It could. This seems like it might have been him using an actual memory of what

happened and just putting it somebody else's place. Because the mom was, I feel like when she called him, was like, oh, where's his hairdresser? Yeah, I feel like, there's some weird shit. And honestly, I agree, like, that this could definitely be a real memory that he's conjured up, that he has just disassociated from and is using Corey as the vessel for it. But, I mean, he's also a nutcase and very well could just be making this up. He could just be pulling this out of his house. Because he seems to be an expert in that.

He definitely is. He said, Corey took him out. So then he's like, okay, so, you know, now Susan. has died of an OD at his house, at Corey's house. Yeah. And he said, so I, Corey told me about it. He's just always telling me about these things. I'm a great person to confide.

And he said, Corey took him out to the garden with him. And he said he actually dug up Susan Perry's body to show him. Yeah, I mean, I get, yeah, totally. Which the interviewer's like, but why, though? And he was like, I don't know. Proof. But like, he did. So they were like, okay.

He's like, I see it. So he said about Sydney, Monaster. in he said, I know nothing about that. They're like, cool. We'll wait till like next week. And they were like, okay, that's fine. And he's like, I do know that Corey said she died. And they were like, so Corey killed her.

And he was like, no, no, no. She died. Corey said she died. He didn't say she killed her. So he mart. And of course, he painted all these women as huge drug users. He made sure to paint them. He was trying to paint them almost in the way of they deserved what they got kind of thing.

And this is something he does. He tries to like... I wonder if he was trying to convince himself that. Oh, he definitely was. For sure. So he, of course, paints Sydney as a huge drug user too and said it was, he was like, you know what? She died apparently around Corey.

And he said it was probably an OD or something. That's nice. So he claimed he barely knew her, Sydney. He hinted it all about, and then in the same interview, he hinted about being the cause of Christine Galant's death. Uh-huh. And this, Christine is the one who. he carries the paper about. Yes, and referenced in the letter. And then he also hinted that he might be,

he might have been the cause of Barbara Spalding's death. Barbara Spalding was the girlfriend he moved in with in San Francisco after him and Avis, like, separated. Oh yeah. And she one day went to drop her child off with her parents and was never seen again. That is crazy. Yes. So now they're like, whoa, whoa. And he's just kind of like hinting at it. Like he's not saying what he did. but it's coming off that way. He's like, could have done it. And then do you remember in the beginning of the story how... Probably not.

During the marriage to Avis, she said he just drove out to California once and like picked up two girls and was driving them to California? Yes, I do remember that. Yeah. And they were never seen again? Yeah, so crazy. He labeled them The Diggers. Stop.

And he said to Zimmerman about them, quote, one of these times I'll tell you about him if you really want to hear a story. I love that he's acting like their old pals meeting up for coffee. at dunks. And Zimmerman's like, no. He's like, I am actually assigned to this case for a little while and I really don't want to drag it on. So really, I'm actually very sick of you, to be quite honest. Just like to let me know right now that'd be so grand. Like it would be so dope of you. So dope. He's like, do you see what I did there? Corey, I mean so fucking dope. Tony of you. I mean, Corey, Tony, same thing. It'd be so groovy.

So Dr. Harold Williams, who had already said that he was sexually dangerous. Yes. He said he was like a lot of these assholes and had disdain for women. Yeah, obviously. And he said it was possibly triggered by his mother remarrying quickly and having another child with this man. I'm very angry at that statement. Oh, 100%. He wasn't saying it's because of that.

He's saying in his mind. Oh yeah, no. That was a betrayal to him. Right. I wasn't. I'm mad that like that's how Tony interpreted. Yeah, exactly. Like clearly it wasn't that.

But like he's saying like in his warped mind, he looks at it as like, she betrayed me. How dare her. It's like, wow, you should grow up. Yeah. He wanted women to like be unrealistically pure and chaste. Like he wanted them all to be like very like he wanted these women he considered unclean and like not pure. And any other woman that wasn't pure and chased. was treated as trashy whores.

Like that's what he was basically looking at them as. Yeah. And he likely was a psychopath who they said would do, would ego split, which is basically that he disassociates during these episodes. And he developed a personality labeled Corey, even though Corey is a real person. Yeah. And he did bad things as Corey, but this also allows him to still be Tony, the innocent bystander, that just happens to have all the insider information onto what.

Corey was doing. I'm telling you, dude, this really would make a great movie. It really would. And he had actually said that the diggers, as he referred to them, were likely murder, like his first murders. And he said they were likely murdered because he was heavily into drugs at that point and his marriage was crumbling. And he needed like to freak out. He has outside things that will trigger him to lose it on, and this is when these episodes happen. Like he can't handle rejection. He can't handle like chaos. in his life. So he says that was probably the reason for that. Then he says living with Barbara Spalding, he was arrested for child support around that time for failing to pay child support.

And he said, so he probably lost it on Barbara because of that. And he said, Sydney Monzen was killed after he was found to be a police informant and his friends had kind of distanced themselves from him. Oh, shit. So there's that. And then he killed Susan Perry after another girlfriend had broken up with him. So Williams also theorized that Christine Galant's death could have probably, he said that might have been like a suicide pact between them that he backed out on. And he said it could have been intentional that he backed out on it or it could have been he just didn't do it. Interesting. Because what's weird is also she had three burns on her chest. Yeah, yeah. You heard that in the beginning. So there were like some things off there. Right. There's definitely he's

involved some way in that doubt. Now, what do they theorize for Marianne and Patricia? Marion and Patricia, they think that was basically just... He just liked it at this point. And they said maybe it was just like, who knows what that could be? Wrong place, wrong time. Honestly, it's probably mostly they were going to blame it more on like drugs and, you know, all that stuff. But July 29th, Corey had another, or excuse me, Corey had his first polygraph exam.

Okay, Corey. Because he finally was like, yep, you know what, I'll do it. This is when Corey was like, I'll take a poly. 17. Because again, he wavered for a minute, but that's... I don't believe him. His mom had to sign to allow him to do this because he's literally a child. He passed with flying colors.

Yeah. So no fingerprints on Tony's gun but his own. They even asked him, they were like, how is Corey's fingerprints not on the gun that he shot them with? And you said you didn't shoot anybody. And what did he have to say about that? And he was like, I don't know how that could be. Weird phenomenon. That doesn't make any sense.

Now over and over and over in these interviews, Tori said he didn't have sexual. relations with or really any relations with Susan Perry. Okay. Then he finally, he randomly said, okay, I slept with her. Okay. Cool. He also said she drove the car when he robbed the doctor's office that he was doing

handyman work for a few years ago. That's rude of you to implicate somebody. So at first he's saying he didn't have any relationship with Susan Perry. Nothing. He barely knew this girl. Wouldn't be able to pick her out of a lineup. Now, you guys are like a Bonnie and Claw type. with her and she was the fucking getaway car in a robbery I did.

Yeah, totally. I believe that. Like, dude. Like, you can't, you're not even easing into these truths. You're just like, whoops. I'm totally lied. So he changed the original few stories again. Now saying that the murders of Marianne and Patricia happened Sunday night again.

Now he's going forward to Sunday instead of Saturday again. And now he's saying he had nothing to do with it. Okay. And oh, wait, he changed it again. He changed it? He was there. he found Marianne wounded in the bushes after hearing a ruckish after hearing a ruckish after he heard such a ruckish otter i hear a ruckish in there so he heard a ruckus and he went

into the ruckus and he shot her twice so now he's saying i shot her twice i heard a ruckus and i just said you know what bang bang so then he says me and cori ran away and we came back tuesday so we just left them where they are for two days they're like you know what drop corey because he passed the polygraph. Yeah, and then he says, we came back with two other guys, and they dismembered and buried them. But he said he didn't cut them up. The others did because, again, he doesn't like blood, Ash. No. He doesn't like it. No, no, no. One more story. Back to the original. I'm losing my mind. We're back to the original where he went out there with Corey and the girls, and the argument happened while he walked to the car. Except now he said, Corey and a guy Eddie returned the following day to dismember and bury them. And Tony had absolutely

nothing to do with it. He didn't shoot anyone. He didn't stab anyone. He didn't save anyone. He didn't chop anyone up. He didn't bury anyone. He had nothing to do with it. I think my brain is so at capacity for his stories. Yeah. The only thing I took out of that is that when you said Corey and the girls, I had a flashback to the Today Show performance of Corey and the Angels. I love that you went there. Thank you. I love that you just brought that into my brain. That's just like, that's a little glimpse into how my mind works. Guys, did you watch that? Yeah. We should post that. We should absolutely post that. I think that's something everybody needs at the end of 2020.

That's a true crime in and of itself. Truly is. So, yeah, we'll post that. Don't worry about it. So now Corey takes another polygraph test, Corey. Yes, yes, yes. He passes again. He's like, can I not do this again?

Because again, after that, they're like, I guess we should polygraph him again because now he's told us 15 more stories about how Corey did. Let's just like quadruple down on that. So now Zimmerman is like, you know, we keep going back and forth. I keep getting stuff from him and then he backs off. he comes back and forth. So he brings in another polygraph examiner that's like really well known, really good at his jobs. His name is Warren Holmes. And he was like, can you do the interview with me? Yeah. Like maybe it'll help. This guy's a little younger. I don't know. Maybe it'll like,

you'll connect a little better and it's not me because I keep hammering him. Right. So when this guy comes in, he just confesses Tony. Yeah. He just, he's like, all right, I got a lot to tell you. Wow. So he confesses to the murders and says he doesn't know why he did it, but he wanted a doctor to look into why he did it. He was like, I need, I want a psychiatrist to look into why I did it. All right. And then they asked him, they were like, okay. So Zimmerman comes back in the room and he's like, all right, let's keep asking him a question, see what we can get. So he's like, was there a sexual component to this? And Tony said there could have been. There could have been. Which means yes. Get that doctor. Just get that doctor. I don't know. So then, so they're like, okay. So. So they're like, okay. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So So he said he felt like it was another person doing it, and he was watching them commit the crimes. That's like the most convenient thing. Yeah. He said dismemberment was not sexual to him, but it was fascinating to him, which is funny because he kept claiming how much he hated blood. Funny because he kept saying that.

And funny because I don't think it's fascinating to make underwear on somebody. No, not fascinating. I think you got some kind of, I think you got your rocks off to that. Yeah, I think that's something weird. So he said he pulled the trigger and he said he saw no justification for what he did. He said he can't stop thinking about Marianne's gurgling sounds. They keep him up at night because they had asked him they were like, did they cry out or say anything to you? Because a lot of people kill people will say this like people will say something before they die and it haunts them forever.

And he says Marianne's gurgling sounds like have kept him up at night. Good. Now he said what they had all thought all along that Marianne had run when Patricia. was shot. Right. And he chased her down. I believe that. He put one, he said he put one piece, because they had found one piece of Marianne in the grave with Patricia. And they were like, was that intentional? Well, no, they were like, was that intentional? Was that to link them in some way, like subconsciously? And he said, no, it was just a matter of fitting them in. Oh, that's lovely. You think you're going to get some kind of like deeper meaning. And he's like, no, I just had to fit

him in there. He also said he didn't remember raping them, but maybe he could have. Okay. And they were Like, you did because, like, there was semen found. Right. You did. And he was like, probably, but I don't know. And they're like, okay, we'll take it. So during this, the autopsy reports have been finalized. And the belief was that they, so they believe that what happened was that he had tied Marianne and Patricia, either both of them or one of them, up by their feet to a tree branch, the one that they found unseen with blood and, like, bits of bloody rope on it, to cut them up that way.

So he hung them by their feet to dismember them. Okay. And as an aside to this, just so it kind of connects a little bit more, Avis had said that one of Tony's fetishes that she was not into was to tie her up from a hook on their ceiling. And would tie her by her legs because it would make the blood rush to her head and make her pass out. And then he could do whatever he wanted. What the f-Avis is very lucky.

that she's alive. I'm sure she's not anymore, but is... Well, this wasn't that long ago. Yeah, this wasn't that long ago. And she, I mean, yeah. Also, she was like 14, but like she's got an angel on a shoulder. Avis. So he was seen at Massachusetts Mental Health Center in Roxbury.

He was seen by Dr. Jack Ewalt. And he said Tony was good at showing emotions, but he definitely wasn't feeling them. He was just good at showing what an emotion looks like. He knewed. He knew how to feign them. He nude it. He said he was. He was very desperate to look passive and not aggressive at all. He was very much trying to, like, portray that.

Well, because he's also, this guy is not a hippie at all. He's trying to be a hippie. No, not at all. And he said it was actually, he did that to the point of being like, he overdoes it. So it's like overdone trying to be this very passive person. I am just the chillest motherfucker in the room. I am so chill. First things first, I'm the chillest. And you know what? I don't like blood. Hate it. Hate it so much. So the conclusion he came to was that he had no psychotic condition and was basically just

dealing with, quote, a severe character disorder, but he was not insane. Okay. He finally admitted, so he finally got Tony to admit that he remembers sexual contact with the murder victims, but not whether it was before or after they were dead. Gross. Be like you might remember that, but like, okay. The report did say that his irregular sexual appellate. and desires mixed with this, his heavy mind-altering drug use could have very well contributed

to him committing these crimes. They said he may be borderline schizophrenia. Ah. Borderline. Yeah. They did not diagnose him with it. He did say, though, that he urged the court to at least consider him being committed to Bridgewater State Hospital for sexually dangerous people.

Okay. Like the ward that deals with that. Yeah. On March 25th, they had another doctor come in. to examine him. Dr. Frederick Wiskin from Plymouth. He said he wasn't psychotic. He agreed. But he said he definitely had sexual perversions. He didn't think borderline schizophrenia was accurate. He said it was actually too excessive. He said he thought he was borderline personality disorder. This entire time, that's what I've been thinking. With sexual deviation. But they didn't diagnose him

with that. They were kind of saying like, this is what it appears to me. It's pretty hard to diagnose people as borderline, isn't it? It is. It's really hard. Yeah. It's hard to diagnose and hard to treat. Yeah. So May 6th, 1970, his trial began. Okay. Apparently he was super cold, super super super sickish. But he insisted, in the end, he insisted on making his own statement, which is who gives a shit what you have to say. Yeah. And so they took him to the murder scene in Truro on one day with the jury so they could like show the graves and everything. See how he react.

He called it, quote, an enjoyable experience. I believe that. Yeah. And by now they had found the buried 22 caliber handgun in a plastic bag at the base of that tree. So it was buried. So they did find it. He did not throw it in the water. He did not throw it in the water.

What a dingus. You're in Provincetown and Chirot and you bury the gun? And you bury the gun in the same place that they found all the evidence. Like, I'm glad that you're stupid. But wow. Yeah. Yeah. For real. So, yeah.

So, yeah. So they found the gun. In court, they realized that the gun had actually been sold to Tony by Corey. Oh, shit. That is bananas. He had sold it to him in 1968 for 20 bucks. And the gun actually belonged to Corey's grandfather. Wow.

Yeah. So by now they, so the pathologist took the stand because they were like, we need to talk about these autopsy reports. He confirmed that the sperm was found in the rectum of both of the girls and the vaginal areas. Oh, wow. And he said he could say with pretty good certainty that it was done after death. Yeah. He was actually surprised that it was still able to be found because he said normally it doesn't

last that long. So he was actually like that tells me more that it's after death. But also it was cold too when they found them. So did that probably help? Yeah, a little bit. But he was still like it had to have been after death because there's no way it would be in there that long. Yeah.

One witness named Paula gave like a really weird testimony. She said that one time Tony drew something on the inside of her raincoat because he was always like doodling and like hippies, man. Yeah. So she said one drawing was like a hash pipe. Yeah. She said one was like a grotesque face that couldn't even be called a real face. She said it was like weird. Okay.

Then she said the third drawing was just a body with no arms. Yeah. And when they asked if it was a man or a woman, she said just a body. What the fuck? What? Now, his defense relied on his chronic and hardcore drug use as a defense. I mean, it is like, that's all they talked about. It's probably all they had.

That is really all they had. What else are you going to say? And Avis testified. And she was chaotic at best. I feel like Avis would have to be chaotic at this point in her life. Yeah. Chaotic had a time on that stand. You read it and I'm going to be honest because like I'm sure Avis, you know, she's a grown ass

adult. I don't know if she's alive now, but like she's a grown ass adult now. So I'm sure she has some regrets. I'm sure she probably looks back and has a few regrets on how she handled herself on the stand there. Yeah. She came onto the stand holding flowers that she had picked outside. Well, she's a hippie. So she sure is. But she giggled through her testimony, kept putting her hand up to giggle.

In fact, you probably just got the effect. Yeah. And it kept covering the microphone. So when she would answering things, she would like giggle and put her hand up. and they kept having to tell her like don't put your hands up I can't hear you and she would be like and then at one point the judge was like hold your flowers with both your hands like was literally like stop putting your hands up and then she looked at him and goes is that an order uh maybe she was she might have been on drugs let's be real well she was young first of all and she was I mean and yeah

she was probably on some stuff I mean we said the other day you laugh at funeral so yeah I mean yeah this is a high pressure situation I'm sure she looked at it now and was like maybe I shouldn't acted like that. Yeah, she's like, maybe I should have dropped LSD before I fucking did it. It was out of trial. At a quadruple murder trial for my ex-husband and father of my children. She's like, you know what? The whole thing in and of itself was a bad trip, so I was hoping I could just like

reconstruct it. Counteract it with a good trip. Yeah. And maybe you'll just get a medium trip out of it. I don't know. I don't know. It's a recipe. Maybe it'll all just cancel out.

Give it a shot. She wouldn't answer anything on the stand about her, their sex life, which she was probably embarrassed. You can understand. And she said she was like, I don't want to talk about this in front of all these people. which you get in one thing. But like as a totally separate entity, like being me over here, not knowing any of these people, I'm like, no, you have to because it's going to help, like, put him away.

Yes, yes. But it's like I, when it comes down to a being. As a human being, you can sit there and be like, yeah, I don't want to talk about how my, you know, in her case, how her husband like to fucking string her up on a hook in the middle of the room and like get her unconscious. Like, I don't want to talk about it. There's not much that she can really testify about because she was pretty unconscious throughout at all.

She was. So she's just like, yeah. Okay. Next question. But then when she left, she blew Tony a kiss and flashed a peace sign. Yeah. See, peace and love I'm all for until murder. But not in a murder trial.

Until murder. Like don't, don't blow kisses and flash. If you take out, okay, weird because I was just going to say. The news is on in the background. They're talking about born. Yeah. But it just flashed the Cape Cod, the garden sign. Yeah, that was real weird.

The famous Cape Cod garden sign. we used to see whenever we go to Nanny and Paz House. Oh, I know. I miss Nany and Paz House. And we go over the bridge. That's showing, sorry. That's really weird, though. Yeah, that was weird.

So weird that we live in Boston and the news is talking about the Cape. So weird. Also, kind of weird, because this is the Rhode Island. Yeah, that is weird. Anyways, not important. Weird. Keep it weird. Weird.

Keep a weird news station. So, yeah, she blew a kiss. She blushed a piece sign. When she went outside, she handed the flowers to, like, a deputy and was like, give him to Tony. Oh, yeah. You know what, Avis. Fuck yourself. And she tried to like touch Tony and they were like stop fucking like no. Yeah, no, you know what, Avis. So it did get a little. I'm disappointed. It got a little weird.

Here I am. I'm hoping Avis has looked, has reflected. That's all. Because you were, you were young. It was the 60s. You know. That had a very Charlie Manson-esque. Oh, yes. It very much reminded me of like a Manson family girl. Okay, squeaky for me. Yeah, I was like, all right. So Tony made. a long-winded statement about drugs for his statement. And it was, but the thing about it was it was very articulate and very coherent. So the prosecution was like, well, shit, he just proved that he's very safe. You're like, yeah, buddy, that did not work in your favor. That did not help you.

That's self-evaluating. Yeah, it's like really good. So May 29th, 1970, he was found guilty of first-degree murder for all four murders and sentenced to two life sentences to be served concurrently in prison. served at Walpole prison. Oh, that is a rough and tough prison. Yeah, I was going to say as soon as I saw Walpole, I was like, ooh, Tone it. How was your time at

Walpole? You're not going to do good at Walpole, Tony. I get scared even like, and I'm not in Walpole a lot, but like I've been in Walpole before. Even passing by, you're like, passing it, you're like, hope nobody jumps a fence. I'm real scared. Yikes. They keep the real tough people there. That's a, tough scene. So, of course,

he wanted to appeal, because, of course. Because they always do. But he wrote a letter to the judge requesting to do so with a different counsel because he said he didn't think he had an effective counsel and he said if he had a different one he would be able to prove his innocence. Oh, that makes sense because his counsel that he had in the first place, like, didn't really work out so well. They didn't really do it. So then he told, but then all of a sudden he went back on it and he was like, I want to keep my

counsel actually. Well, that's not a good plan. And they were like, why did you even do that? And he was like, well, we have a book deal on the works and I think it would be a conflict of interest. Okay. You're also not going to gain any money from that. giant asshole. And they were like, seriously, you're doing this on like the stance of like a book

deal and conflict of interest? And he was like, yeah. You know what though? Back then, I wonder if he was able to profit off that. He actually, I think he would have been able to. Yeah, because that's pretty recent that you're not able to anymore. But I think he actually signed something that, because his counsel wanted part of it to go to his children. So he was like, but I don't know exactly what happened after that. I'm going to say something like potentially controversial. I don't think I would want my dad's murder book money. Oh, no. That's not. controversial. I didn't think so, but people find things controversial. Yeah, I don't know. If you find that controversial, that's weird. But like, yeah, I don't think I would want that either. I'd be like,

you know. No, thanks, dad. Like, honestly, I'd be like, give it to the victims. Yeah, that's, I don't need it. That's where it should go. Like, I don't need that shit. So, yeah, so he was like, yeah, he ended up, he, obviously he did not get his appeal. Like, he did not win his appeal. He served at Walpole, like we said, and they were going through some departmental changes at the time. They were trying to, like, do a new program to, like, really rehabilitated. drug offenders. Yeah. And Tony thought he was like, oh my God.

That applies to me. He's like, I would be so good at this. So he was like, I've been through it all. I can help. I can teach people. I mean, at least, I guess I could say at least he wanted to help. I think he just like wants. I think it's the superior thing though.

He just wants to be in charge of people. Yeah. And so they all hated him. Of course. So none of them listened to him and they were all like fuck off. And it was not eventful. They gave him a nickname. His nickname was choice cuts.

Why? Like a choice cut of meat. Oh, because he dismembered people. That's not nice. I don't like that. It's real fucked. So he did write a memoir in prison. It was called Resurrection.

And it said that Patricia and Marion's death were Carl's fault. Who the fuck is Carl? He said Carl was the one who killed him while on LSD and Dilauded. And Costa had subdued him. But Mariann wasn't dead. So he said he had to put her out of her misery and stab her. At least he remembered one of his other stories. And then he said, Carl and he dismembered and buried them together.

This is the first time he had mentioned Carl. No one knows who the fuck Carl is. No one news. No one news it. No one knew it. No one knows it. No one knows it. I liked that a lot.

We don't know. Wow. So he also said in the book that Sidney and Susan died of drug overdoses and that Carl dismembered and buried them. Who the fuck is Carl? Yeah, he was like, I had no idea what happened to them, really. It was just all Carl. He had nothing to do with that.

This is literally the first time he has ever mentioned Carl was in this book. I love, too, that an editor was like, hell yeah, Carl. Hell yeah, Carl. We don't need a backstory. I don't need anything. It's just Carl. No, leave them wanting more. Who's Carl?

Carl with a kid. Leaves it open for a sequel. So May 12th, 1974, 29 years old, 8 p.m. in Walpole Prison. Yeah. Guards are making their rounds. Yeah. And they find Tony hanging in his cell by a leather belt. Oh.

In the book in his garden by Leo de Morae, he describes him as, quote, Costa's eyes bulged. His darkly modeled face was frozen into a grotesque mask. Blood foamed against his gaping lips from his having bit his own tongue nearly in half. Ugh. One unlaced sneaker had been kicked off during his death struggles, revealing a mended white sock. Costa had urinated down the front of his unpressed prison trousers. He's buried in an unmarked grave in St. Peter, the Apostle Cemetery in Provincetown. His garden is still very much a tourism, like a dark tourist spot.

It's behind Pine Grove Cemetery in Truro. It's down a dirt road and you'll see a tree with an old phone attached to it. And that's where it is. All right. I'll see you there. And that is the story of Tony Cheshire. I'm bummed that he hanged himself. I'm really bummed that he hanged himself. Like got that opportunity.

Yeah, I was not happy about that. Not serviceful sentence, but I, I, wow. I feel like I have a lot to say, but I can't get my thoughts together because that was so much. It's so much. Well, and just to end this, I did find like a quick little article talking about like some of the officers, like officer gunnery, who's the one that like initially was like digging with his hands into the graves.

And he had to throw his coat up. Yeah, and it's in the Barnstable Patriot. And in this article, he says about a year before the discoveries in Truro, there was a province town girl that disappeared. And at about the same time, this officer gunnery said he stopped Costa on Route 6 for driving a car with a bad muffler and speeding. Oh. He says, quote, he got out of his car and walked over to mine.

When that happens, it usually means you don't want to look in the car. Costa was giving a warning about speeding on the promise. He was given a warning on the speeding, and it was on the promise that the muffler would be fixed the next day. Yeah. Now, Gunnery says, quote, in retrospect of the sequences, I've always wondered whether the body of the missing girl was in the trunk of Costa's car when I stopped him that day. Wow. I bet. I had no reason then to think so.

But then, I mean, hindsight is 2020. Wow. And he'll never know. But it's like, can you imagine having that on your conscience? No. Like, I. It is so crazy because it. It just makes sense because so many of these criminals, especially these types of criminals,

will be stopped by police. Exactly. And somehow get their way out of it with a body or like something super incriminating in the car. And that's the thing. He says, and I feel so bad for this guy because, like, he was the one that was digging with his hands, like, really into it. And he says, but I wonder if I looked in that trunk if I might have saved the lives of the other victims who followed.

Oh. And then he says that the first body that he actually unearthed when he was digging with his hands was the one of that original missing girl. Wow. Yeah, the one, and he said the one who might have been in the trunk. Right. So, and then he said, I guess I'll never know. Oh, that's like such an eerie end. Isn't that so eerie? That would also be such a great way to end that movie. I know. I know. Credits. It's like grizzled old officer just being like, I guess I'll never know. And then he lights a cigarette, obviously. Oh, he's got to have the accent. I guess I'll never know. Yeah. Chiching. Spark one up, buddy.

Wow. So that's that's the tale of Tony Cust. I'm here to tell you that was my favorite case you've ever covered. Yeah. I don't know why. I think it's because it's home. Yeah. Because it's home. You just scared the shit out of me. Ooh, and it just scared us. See, I always turned Southern when I got scared. You get scared me. You just scared the shit out of Blanche, Devereaux. So I hope you guys were horrified by that. And says a lot about you if you were not. Yeah, if you weren't, then I don't know, like talk to someone about it. But better help.

Yeah, so we love you. So you love you. You can find us on Instagram at Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on the Twitter at a Morbid Podcast. Send us a Gmail. Morbid Podcast at gmail.com. We hope that you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird.

But not so weird that any of this shit happens to you. Fuck you, Tona. That's the way that you like bring flowers to testify. What the fuck, Avis?